Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / Jeff Cuno | The King of Taos - Sub Ultra Standout & Coach at Primal Genes Coaching

Transcript

Jeff Cuno | The King of Taos - Sub Ultra Standout & Coach at Primal Genes Coaching · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What is up guys?
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today I am bringing you guys something special.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: None other than Mr Jeff Kuno joins the podcast.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I am so excited to have had Jeff on Really fun episode.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Jeff joined us just before his top 10 finish at the Pikes Peak Marathon, so it's a really fun, exciting episode to talk about all kinds of things and storylines leading up, uh to the Pike's peak marathon, which was actually a shortened course this year, unfortunately, which means Jeff's got to come back uh for for a proper run on the proper hill, uh, which would be kind of fun.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Uh, guys, if you don't know that name, you absolutely should.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: In my opinion, jeff is one of the most talented athletes I've ever spoken to, uh on and had on the pod.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: He's an absolute killer, um, and just someone that flies really under the radar, blue collar type of runner, um, any place, anywhere, anytime.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Jeff is that kind of guy that wants to throw down.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: First place this year at the up and over 10 K.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: First place at the Verts vertical at the up and over 10 K down in Taos, new Mexico also took the dub at the bull in the woods half marathon this year.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, he is just like I said and top 10 at the Pikes Peak uh marathon.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Um couple of years back, had some great results at the Flagstaff sky peaks when it was a golden trail series race, as well as a two 37 ascent at the Pikes Peak ascent.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: This kid's a killer.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, like I said, one of my favorite people that I've had on and just just episode.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I want you guys to learn more about him because the world needs to learn more about him.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Just a good dude.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, I'm going to stop bragging about Jeff Kuno and you guys can get to learn for yourself.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: It's time.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: We are live, all right, jeff Kuno, welcome to the pod dude.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what's up?
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Dude, it's good to have you.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I feel like we've been chatting about this for a little bit.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: I started listening to your stuff, you know, like towards the beginning of the pod dude.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what's up?
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Dude, it's good to have you.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I feel like we've been chatting about this for a little bit.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I started listening to your stuff, you know, like towards the beginning of the year, and I was like this is really cool, that.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I think the trail you know the trail world's been so revolved around ultra, so it's like cool to finally have somebody who's devoted to.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I agree, man think there's just like so much to it too.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, there's a lot of podcasts out there that just like just interview, like the remys and the philomons and the patricks out there, but like there's so many amazing sub-ultra athletes in the states that like no one you know that don't get their due yeah, I think so too.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Like and like we were just talking like just the amount of talent, like and the sports only is getting faster and faster, like all these track and road guys are coming in and they're like, like you said, like sub 14 minute five K runners and stuff.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: It's like, whew, you know, there's some, there's some deep, deep talent in in sub ultra.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: So it's like about time that it gets a little bit more noticed.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Well, dude, welcome to the pod.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: It's great to have you.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Um you know, dude for the audience maybe talk a little bit about yourself, maybe a little bit your background, how you got into uh, how you got into running, yeah, yeah, I think I have a little bit of a different upbringing than most people.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Like, I didn't start running until, uh, about 2016.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I think I was like 19 or 20 years old, um, before that, I mean, I raced, um, I raced motocross for like 11 years, 10 years, so, um, that's kind of like my sport background, um, but yeah, didn't didn't start running till, uh, I was about 20 and I just kind of started doing it one day and the trails and I was like I think I like this a lot, so I just kind of full swing from there that's crazy dude.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: So I was I was a bit older when I first got into like I had ran and I played soccer competitively but like Didn't like run, run.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Um, but it's funny, like to start in your 20s and be completely new at something and then like get good at it.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's, it's interesting.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was uh Like.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: I said like right when I started.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: It was like uh, I mean, I just I didn't stop, you know.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't really.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: I had like a couple injuries right away.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: I think it's new for a lot of new or like it's easy, for that's happened for a lot of new runners.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: But like I mean, aside from like a week here there, I mean I've been running like non-stop since then.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: So I think that's a key.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah to that, that like trajectory.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's good and I, like you know, racing motocross is so like mentally hard and like physically as well, like mentally too, more mentally than anything.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: It's just like it's really hard.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: So I think you know, transitioning from like something that's so intense to going to like the sub ultra, which is like very intense and you can't make a lot of mistakes and it's like basically full gas, I think is like oh, that translates really well it translated really well, I think, especially with like technical stuff and like like having you know like your, your eyes have to process so much information yeah
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: so fast, like when you're going, really does that make you nasty on the downhill like are you much like faster to react to that?
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: I think so like I I have like a lot of decent um downhills um in my past.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I think I focused a little bit more on the uphill lately because it's always been a weakness kind of like.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: We said like I wanted, I wanted that downhill a little bit for pikes, peak, but uh, um, yeah, I think so like, and I think just turning your brain off like has helped.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Like because when you're racing dirt bikes like you just you're not thinking about anything, like the adrenaline is so high and you're just it's coming at you so fast.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: So I think, like, having that background in my brain I think like helps turn it off on the downhill.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Interesting, obviously there's some killers on the downhill, like like Ace Brown you had on here like he is disgusting on the downhill, you know, and and chasing that is a is always like a goal and something cool to like.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Push yourself like oh see how fast I can run this.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: It's funny you bring him up.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I literally just had Darren Thomas on the pod and we were chatting about, um, we were talking about, like race directing, cause he's race directing his first race, and um, I swear to God, like I, I think, like if I ever started a race, I think obviously I'm a VK guy, I love VKs.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I think I have to add a descent just for someone like ACE, so and like, so he can just have his day on it, you know yeah, you should.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Uh, vks are nuts though, like.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know that's a.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: I've haven't done any like traditional vks.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: There's that one in taos.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: It's like, but it's not a true vk yeah so, uh, you know, I'd love to, I'd love to test that out, but I mean running, running down like 30 grade or 40 grade would just be like not fun not fun.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: You have to have some bones on you jennifer yaman had had a lot of like praise to sing to you about your uh, about your uphill skills with poles.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, yeah, well, I was giving her crap, like because, uh, so she raced in 2022 uh, we both did, obviously and uh, she didn't use poles.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: And then this year, on the starting line, I was like expecting her to have poles because it's just so steep, yeah, and I was like, oh, you didn't learn.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: From last time on she's like no, I think like, because, uh, she said she used them the day before.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Some didn't like them.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: And then, uh, yeah, at the top, she's like, oh, you're right, I should have used them.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Come on now, it's so steep like, you're like crawling, like, so I'm like, give me four legs for that one hell, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: And you know it's funny, I for a long time there like I didn't use pole especially for like the Cirque stuff.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's steep but it's all mostly runnable, yeah, so it's like I don't really want to, it's not necessary, but like for a VK it makes so much sense.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Like I've been practiced I building that fitness and like building very specific stuff for like a run at several vks.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Um, notably the rot I was supposed to go this year and I bailed on it.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: I was a little disappointed myself um, it looked crazy with the snow there.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Dude it looked so much fun in a row I was.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I was bummed.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Congrats to cam for getting it done, but, like man, they're um.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Those races just look so much fun and the poles it's just, I think, really add to it if you can use them the right way and you saw jim this year at like broken arrow even using them and yeah it's and like uh, at gopro games this year they have like that peppy space off great race and cam and uh, joe demore, were like battling and dude.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Like the efficiency that those dudes have, like they're like just like pitter pattering up the slope like so in sync with their poles, and I'm like I need to get like that I think a lot of that schemo too from yeah for just being so good at that, I dude.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: I feel the same way.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Man, like to close those little skill gaps, I think just like make up, just make the difference in a lot of ways, yeah I like a lot of the european dudes, like, like you said, with the schema and stuff.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: It's like they're just so efficient yeah so I think, like you said, just bridging that gap a little bit would be sweet.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I wish we had freaking more VKs in the United States.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: We're working on that.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go, let's go.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: I really want to start Like there's some planning in the process now.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I've talked to a few friends and I really want to get like I'm going to start're going to start looking, because I think we definitely need a solid vk dude, we do and like just looking around, like I'm always looking at races but like on the east coast I think it's it might be new hampshire, but they have like a friday night vertical series at like I forget which ski mountain, but I'm like that's just like so cool, like they do that in Europe, like low-key just vertical races all the time.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I'm like we need to get something like that.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Just get one of these ski resorts near here to just do a vertical series.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: It's so strange to me because Aspen has their American Uphill because I'm starting to do research now on stuff I want to do in the winter but they have America's Uphill, which is in like march, and then there's the vale hill climb and stuff like that, like winter based, but like america's uphill is a winter vk, I'm like why don't we have one in the summer?
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: We used to have one, yeah.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: So I don't know.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're definitely.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Uh, we gotta work on that, yeah let's get that sub stuff going, that's right, that's right, dude.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: So, man, where are you from originally?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, cool.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked this question, um.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: So I live in Albuquerque now, um, but I'm Colorado native.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: I was born in Vail and I grew up in, uh, Gypsum, Colorado.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: It's like a real small town, kind of, uh, west of Vail, Um, but yeah, I'm from there and kind of a small town kid and um, my wife and I I met my wife in Denver.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Actually, Um, I live, like I mentioned to you earlier, my parents live in Conifer now, so like I kind of um have bounced back and forth between there and uh, gypsum Eagle area, Um, but yeah, so my wife and I um got married in Eagle and then we were like, uh, I want to go back home and and enjoy this small town again.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: You know I'm a, you know the city is not necessarily for me.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Uh, I like to be, you know, free and go camping and do all that stuff like right out my back door.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: Um, but we ended up going to Albuquerque cause, like, uh, I'm not much like I grew up snowboarding, uh, but I just like the winters were tough man, Like cause I didn't want to do like the ski stuff you know, like that a lot of dudes do.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: I was like I just want to run all the time man, so, um, albuquerque, um in a trail sense and like outdoor sense, is sick because of the weather.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Like this, the winters are perfect.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: You can put in like crazy mileage.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: You could run trails the whole time.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: You know like you get a good mixture um of stuff, like especially.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: You know like in the winter like we don't really have any big, like big peaks um the sandias go up to like 10, 6 I think so it's not bad.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: It's not bad, but and even then, like in the winter, you can get up.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: You can get up like over 8 000 to 9 000 with like zero snow.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: That's amazing like zero snow yeah um, because like I know here in colorado, like you can get up high and it's like usually pretty packed out and stuff, so like it's not that bad, but just the weather dude, like sunny, warm, like it's like 60s dude, it's nice I hear amazing things about new mexico, like every person that, like I know, lives there.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, like you got taos not far away and then the same like you, just there's a lot of good access and you don't have to worry about like winter if you're like a year-round runner.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: It makes so much sense yeah, and like I mean trails there they can get like busy kind of, but not compared to like Colorado man, like like there's the sand graze in uh above Santa Fe and they go up to like a little over 12, like almost 13.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: And, dude, like on a Saturday morning I was like we like I still have the Colorado brain.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: I'm like we got to leave really early and get there before everybody, cause it's like an hour drive for us.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: And uh, so we got there at like I don't know like seven, which isn't like that early obviously.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Um and like there we were like the only car in the trailhead and I'm like this is nuts.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Dude, Like if you're in Colorado you'd be like fighting for a parking spot right now.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: So it's like it's really nice like that, like you can just have and outdoors aspect is pretty good, but a disclaimer on everything else, yeah.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the food's gotta be good, right it's?
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: pretty good.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like we found a couple of good spots.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know we're like super homebodies, like I said.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: I mean like the city's kind of tough for us, but uh, we're kind of homebodies and we we do what?
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Most of our fun outside, camping and fishing is.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Your area is like bigger than like Metro Springs area, or is?
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: it.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: So I live in the Northeast Heights, which is like a quote unquote, the nicer side of town, and it's kind of like.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Kind of looks like this, you know, like nice, nice green grass and stuff, um, so we're like away from like the actual city.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Um, we're close to like the foothills of the Sandias, which is really nice.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Like I can get onto dirt and like less than a mile and run tons of trails, so, uh, that's nice.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's like like a 20 minute drive down into like actual, like city that's good.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're kind of removed, like that was one of the things that blew me away about the springs.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Is that like other than like bar camp and manitou springs, like the rest of it is all like for a metro area?
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: The access is pretty solid, you know?
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, like you can get on most of the places, although the summer is getting kind of wild, like it's starting like cheyenne canyon, starting to get kind of like really busy.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Um, like the secrets out instagram secrets out freaking.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Instagram made it.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I mean it's even worse, like the san juans and stuff.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: But yeah, instagram made it.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Uh, it's too popular, yeah dude, we miss colorado, it's.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: It's just a different world up here yeah like I mean not to mention the mountains, but the level of competition.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Like you go to any local race dude, it's like you gotta have a fight on your hands.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: It's like I don't know everybody, just like it's cool, though, like there's the other side to it, that, like you know, everybody wants to be out there, right, so it's like everybody is kind of like-minded and wants to be on the trails and, like, climb mountains.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: It's like it's a cool environment to be in yeah, so there's it's kind of double-sided, I guess would you say the competition is less down there, because I know they're like a 10, like up and over 10k, like not necessarily like this year was super competitive.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Obviously we'll talk about your dub um, but like last year I felt like like everybody showed up to it, it was a pretty, pretty competitive race.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, um, there are some straight killers in new mexico that don't show up that often.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Um, like I don't know, he won the up and over last year.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Patrick smith, yeah, dude, he's like an og, just like amazing.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Like he's won.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I think he's beat like joe and andy at like one of the us uh mountain races.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, at like one of the U S uh mountain races.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Oh shit.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Like back in the not back like too far back in the day, but like I just don't think he wants to be like super competitive and like he showed up at a couple of races.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Last year he kicked my butt at a Hemez mountain run, which was pretty good, um, and then he showed up to up and over and kicked everybody's butt like I mean he just like ran 70 miles a week and like ran a 214 marathon, I'm pretty sure like at grandma's last I this year yeah, this year like something crazy dude and I was just like just what a talent, insanely talented, yeah like he could just be like, and I like I creeped his strava a little bit and I was like, what did he do for that?
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: like maybe like two like long runs that were like decently fast and like nothing really crazy, like just off, pure, just badassery dude, yeah.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: And then, uh, there's another dude there who's uh, his name is benjamin stout.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever I do know that name.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah he's a.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: I think like if he wanted to uh on the ultra, like I'd say 50k to 50 mile, like mountain runs, uh like if he really wanted to like, I think he could be top in the country for sure oh wow, he's nasty, like I think he got second at uh speed goat okay, um, like a couple years ago.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Like he just I like another thing I just don't think he cares to be highly competitive.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: I think he just runs to just like kind of like david's, like your time just shows up and just like fucking destroys everybody.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, like I think that's just his, his style.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: So, um, there's those guys.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Uh, there's like, like I said, there's some fast road runners and stuff, like a lot of people, a lot of pro athletes come and train it in albuquerque like josh crew trains are obviously like the um, what are they?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: The brooks beasts?
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: yeah then there's like some, uh, some japanese runners.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: They're like, uh, a crew.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: They kind of live up by me and like they're always running, like on the it's like the tramway bike path and it's just like a flat section, like really far up on albuquerque.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: They're always out there hammering dude.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: So I mean, there's some, there's some killers.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah and you're, you're high elevation, you're 7 000 feet.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Right, a little bit uh, not, like where I live is like 5900, and then the foothills, yeah you, I mean they're at like six, but then you just like the sandias, like they're not that big or high in altitude, but I mean they're ruthless, like they just go straight up.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Um, they're really rocky.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Like if other than la luz trail, um like, if you want to climb the sandias, it's like 15 like minimum wow like they're not gnarly that's dope dude, yeah they're, they're like.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: You can't do an easy run on this, for sure, but I was literally just talking to mark tatum about the laluz trail and like the race that they used to have on there, it's such a bummer that you guys don't have that anymore because like it's a cornerstone of that running community.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: I feel like yeah it really was and it's still talked about it like crazy in the running in the choke world down there, like, um, yeah, I mean, I wanted to do that race even before we even thought about moving to Mexico.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this is cool Cause you like, you know yeah yeah, it's iconic.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: We're always seeking out like cool races, like mountain races, like that.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it's a shame, like I did listen to that and he was saying, you know, like it's got to like some big time in the government with the, the um it tastes like Congress or something something crazy.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: I was like it's a trail race that goes up the mountain like right we're doing like trail runners are awesome, like we take care of our, our stuff, you know.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: So I think it's just a little yeah, outrageous, but political stuff, man sucks.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he said it literally takes like an act of congress to get that fixed, but it's like it's so weird to me the way things work too, because it's's like we have pikes right.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: We've run up a 14er and that's in Pike National Forest.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: It's one of the rare 14ers that are like not in a wilderness area, which is dope, but at the same time, it's like we can't make any exceptions for a race that was running for like a gazillion years.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, yeah, so.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: And La Luz come on, you put up a nasty time on it pretty recently, right?
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah I did a like a round trip time on it, because all the times are from obviously the climb and that's just all uphill, um.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: So I kind of had like some of those times in mind, but I knew that I wanted to come.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: So, like la luz is very similar to bar, I think it's.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: It's not as steep as bar, but it's a little bit more technical.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: So like I was like I want to put in a good time there and just kind of find that flow.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: It's like that gravelly, you know where it like it doesn't get muddy, it just you could just cruise down it.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: So I was like, ah, I'm going to try and get a good time to the top, but I really want to focus on the downhill.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I put it in a really good downhill time.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I think I put in a okay uphill.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: That's the best part about the downhill you get to make it up, yeah.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's sick.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: It's a sick trail.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: If you're ever down there, I would.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I would hit it.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: It's on the list for sure.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Um so, dude, let's talk about, let's talk about your coaching business.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Primal jeans.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, primal jeans is really cool.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked about it.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: It's kind of it's still growing.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: You know like we're, we're pretty small.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: We got a little fun community down in Albuquerque that I uh I coach and we show up to the races and stuff together.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Sometimes, uh, I got some.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I talked about camping and fishing and being outside we're not like big city people you know it's more embracing that kind of lifestyle, especially like as trail runners.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: you know, like that's what we live for, um, so kind of promoting that.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: It's like the best mental health medicine you can get, I think, in my opinion, um, so kind of embracing that and and yeah, yeah, that's kind of what we preach a little bit, and try and get people outside more, try and people get those roadrunners on trails more often.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah, dude.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's good it's building, so I appreciate the shout out.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I like the shirt.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: I was like the shirt's dope.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's cool.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: So, and you know, I'm 100% self-coached since the beginning, since the beginning.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: So are you really?
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never had a coach.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: So I think it's um well, like not in running I've had coach, like in past, past stuff, but um yeah, so I think that attests to to attest to what we can do.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, I made a lot of gains in 10 months or 10 years, not 10 months, 10 years.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: So I think it's uh let's just say, you figured something out, yeah so I think, uh, I think it works.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Um, the funny thing is, though, like when I first started running dude, like you know, before uh, outside it was like trailrunningmagcom or whatever um, david roche would always like post like training, talk or training like workouts and talks and stuff on there, dude, and I used to read him religiously like oh yeah, he's a, he's a great coach.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: So I think maybe a little bit of it comes from that and that that kind of uh just pulling a little bit from everybody.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Well, at the end of the day, too, it's like I always joke around cause I'm like people have it figured out, but like no one's got it figured out.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of like and dude like I, I'm this part of the season or what's what needs to be just fitness gains and stuff like that, and I think there's a lot that goes into that, that people like with specificity, that people don't understand and just help.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: So much yeah.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: And different people.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Obviously the cliche different people react to different things and, like some people you know, um react really well to having one big peak race and they build their whole year towards it.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: And other people react good to like having a season right like where I'm gonna have five or six races.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not necessarily in like peaking for a race, but you know I'm gonna be at a really high level of fitness and I'm gonna hit these four races or five races or whatever kind of like with the circ series or something like that.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Like us sub ultra runners, like that's kind of.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: You know, our summers are usually packed like everybody races quite a bit.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: So I think, like, aside from like pike's peak, you know, like just having just maintaining a high level of fitness, recovering when you need to recover, is like a great thing.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: But yeah, some like big ultras and stuff, obviously you need to have like a pretty big ramp up and stuff like that.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: So it all just depends.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Like you said, too specific, too soon like can kind of get you in trouble and uh, yeah, it's.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Uh, it's a fun like thing to play with and some fun science.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Like I'm always just dabbling with training plans and stuff.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: It is interesting right.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: It's like addicting kind of mad scientist yeah.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Another good one.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: I listened to.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: You probably obviously are familiar with sweat elite.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: That guy man Like I mean he's ran and filmed and talked to the greatest runners in the world like every single one of them, so it's like he's got a lot of good stuff, like uh, that he talks about on his podcast and yeah, some good ones out there, man, there's some really I don't know.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Like I.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I feel like I turned a corner this year, like, even, like I said, even though I have great coaches, amazing coaches, everything it's, it's like, like you said, just putting it together and different things respond for because, dude, there are people that just come out of the box extremely fit and just need to focus on a few different things, whereas I felt like last season I was super prepared, but I am more so, just like I think I did too much mountain stuff way too early in winter and now I'm learning like, okay, yeah, you might be able to be good in the mountains A lot of people have that but you don't have sub five, 5k, 14 minutes speed, right, which is you got to bridge that gap.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to bridge that gap.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like, things that I've learned with myself is like you know, um, uh, trail running, what is it?
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: American trail running association they like put out a, uh, an article.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: That was like, uh, you know, pike's peaks champions like, what are their workouts that they do?
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: And a lot of them, like some of them, um, we're like talking about just doing tons of vert and you know, doing these big vertical workouts and stuff, and I'm like when I do that, I feel like a fricking slug man.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Like I I can't focus on it too much, or if I put in too much vert, I just feel like a turd out there man.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: So it's like I have to always be focusing on a little bit of speed and I think that's because I don't have that track cross country high school, college background.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: So it's like I'm always trying to bridge that gap.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Um, but yeah, like if I focus a lot more on like speed work and then just like what I did for this training cycle was, you know, like every 10 days I just did a really hard mountain push, instead of like accumulating vert like every day or every week, it was just like every 10 days.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I would just like hammer really hard and like make it count, you know.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: And then everything else was kind of somewhat like flat speed worker, flat like lactate threshold stuff.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: So, um, that's like what worked for me and obviously, like some people, um can, can just crush for it all day and then be like a speed demon.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Not me.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: It's crazy, dude.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: It's funny you say that, dude.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: I literally had the same exact like.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: I just figured this out Like I'm almost like kicking myself.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I didn't do this early in the season.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I like, when I got back from Cirque Targhee, was trying to figure out the rest of my season, I literally just started.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: We have, like the Santa, like 500 feet and like three miles it's.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: It's very flat, yeah, um, and I just started doing a ton of flat stuff on that.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: That I'd never done before in the past.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Everything would have a like I it would be more so getting on the trails.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: In the past, this I started doing that and then, like every seven to ten days, like I do, I'd hit a climb and I would hit it hard.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm finding that like I'm pring on this, when I would do this all the time a year ago and I like, yeah, it's just interesting, like how people's bodies adapt.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like to like the cumulative fatigue of like constantly doing vert, to like like, oh, I'm getting you, maybe think you're getting better, but there is going to be a decline.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: I'm talking for myself personally but like there's going to be a decline and then my performance on those climbs aren't going to, you know, be that great and I'm going to create bad habits and I'm going to be slogging, I'm going to be, you know like, just create like mentally too, bad habits also.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: So it's like I know I'm going to be fresh, I know my legs are going to feel snappy.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: So when I go climb it's like I know I'm going to have a good day Most of the time.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you kind of look forward to it more.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you really look forward to it.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: And like when you're going fast uphill, like that's what we do, we race fast uphill and downhill.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: So it's like you have to create those good habits you know in training.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Otherwise, like if I'm feeling like a slug in training climbing, and then I go and try and hammer the climb at the race, it's like you know mentally that's like how am I going to bridge that gap?
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: So kind of practice, that, that mindset and stuff when you're, when you're training yeah, no, I do, I agree.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: So on the topic of the marathon, yeah, are you pumped, bro?
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: dude, I'm pretty stoked.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, uh, like I told you, I did the ascent in 2022, uh, against all those golden trail guys, and you know, obviously I got my ass handed to me, uh, and I just remember like getting to the top, being like I couldn't imagine running down this, but but I think you know, like we just talked about mindset and training and stuff it's like you just you flip that switch and I think it'll just, it'll go smooth.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I feel like you're not going away.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I feel like your build looks.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, your build has looked great.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: You took the job at the up and over 10 K.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Then you go win bull in the woods last week, which are two.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: You know I feel like up and over and both of them are just great test pieces.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: High altitude Um, you know you're running downhill as well.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: You know the test the legs.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: I feel like the you could, you could speak more for your build, but it sounds uh, it looks good.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: So 2023 was a horrendous year for me, Um, you know, and I I it still kills me when I think about it, but I just didn't.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: I had all these races planned up.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: I had a really good springtime, Like.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: I had a really good run at Hemes mountain, um, against Pat Smythe, and Timmy Parr was there.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: I was able to edge that guy out, which is sick, that's good.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: It's good.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Notch on the belt.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: He's a legend.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: But, um, I got to train.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: I got to train and I just and I know better than this, like, but you just, sometimes you got to like listen to your own advice and I didn't, obviously, and I just cooked myself completely.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Uh, leadville, heavy half, yeah, and it was like dumping snow I don't know if you remember that dumping snow up there.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Uh, was able to pull the victory from from that one and then literally just, uh, just a massive decline and just feeling like a slug out there, like, like we just talked about.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: So I was like this year I'm going to, you know, I'm going to be really methodical, I'm going to recover.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: When I need to recover, you know, swallow my pride, recover, take those days off after races and I, fricking, executed like I'm really proud of myself actually for it.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Um, it's hard as runners, you know, we always want to get better and it's hard to take time off.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: But, um, I was doing that and I, yeah, yeah, I had a really good buildup for um up and over, which was in August, and I focused on a little bit more speed for that and still still hitting some, some decent mountains in New Mexico, the um ones above Santa Fe, which are pretty good uh, lake peak and, um, deception peak are pretty cool up there.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: And then, uh, I took a little bit of time off and then I just put in some pretty good size long runs, uh, for pikes, cause I was like I said I was doing some shorter stuff so I wanted to get some more big aerobic benefits, um, so I did a couple of those, but, yeah, I feel I feel as fresh as I've ever felt in september, which is nuts because, like we were talking about, like you know, a year-end.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Races are tough because, like you're cooked from the summer and stuff.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I'm excited, I just, uh, just want to run my race and however it shakes out, it'll shake out yeah, I mean, and to piggyback on your 2022.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: I know you, you might have been a little more down on it, but like to preface this for the audience like you ran 237, which, in any other year, is going to get you into the, definitely in the top 10, arguably in the top five, yeah, which is world class.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I mean, dude, if you could, yeah, if you could replicate that, like anything close to that, like you're, you're having yourself a day.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we have some goals.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: We have some goals, but uh, we'll keep them to ourselves yeah, that's fair.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: That's fair.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to do with the snow this year I'm excited.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Make it, make it windy, make it cold, make it gritty, because I think that'll level the playing field against the studs that I have to race.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: So let's go yeah, yeah, dude, I wonder too and this is nothing like and no information I have on my own, but I do wonder if it, if it's too much, if they actually reroute you guys, because, well, the only reason I say that is it might actually work in your favor.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, having one btmr and stuff like that in the past yeah, well, they did that, for they did that for the ascent.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: I think it was a few years ago, yeah, stopped him at bar yeah yeah, I that hadn't crossed my mind until literally the drive up here today and I was whoa because it's supposed to snow tonight, right Saturday and tomorrow night.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Oh really, I thought it was just tomorrow.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know I could be wrong.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: I know it's supposed to be cold to start tomorrow.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the hot like I looked at the Pikes Peak weather and it was like on Sunday for the marathon was like a high of 26 degrees and I was like that's winter, it's straight winter.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I'm living in new mexico that it doesn't get that cold.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Did you bring cold weather gear with you?
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I?
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: did, I did I was like oh, like last night I was like crap, like I gotta like pack some other stuff, you know.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: So it's smart it was funny.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: We'll see what happens.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, like it'd be wild if that happened.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: I really want to do the full course, though, because then I'd have to come back again.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Hey, there's nothing wrong with coming back.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: It's a great race.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll have fun and just embrace it.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: It's going to be sick.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah the grittier, the nastier, the better.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Let's go.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Dude.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I agree, man.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Either way, it's going to be up there with you, darren thomas um oh my god, what's his name?
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Um, we'll have john aziz, possibly david sinclair nobody really knows if he's here or not.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Um, but like those guys that darren when I was in here earlier, darren was like oh you know, it's probably a really good idea to just let someone else run in front, especially with all that snow, and then let them tire themselves out strategy comes into play I was like you gotta really think about this one, yeah, yeah let's see what happens.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: It looks beautiful up there right now, though.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does it does.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: So, dude, one of the things about you that I found really interesting, um and the audience might not know unless, like, you're really privy to the sport is like you've had top 10 finishes at some of, like the races in Colorado and all around I mean Kendall Mountain two top 10s.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: You've done quite a lot of work around here.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Dude, do you have any dream races or dream goals?
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: What's your big goal with this sport?
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: I think I'm kind of maybe low-key, I guess I don't necessarily really talk to a lot of people.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: A lot of people don't talk to me, so it's like, yeah, I do have a lot of good finishes, I think you know like not.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, last year, like I said, I beat myself up about it, I think I dropped the ball quite a bit, but you know, I've rebounded this year and in 2022, I think I had Like.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I think sometimes I'm I kind of like fall into the trap of just like doing races, and this is why we love the sport, right, I like to do races that look fun to me, yeah, and sometimes that's not the most competitive, sometimes that's just a local race.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: It's got to be inspiring to you.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: It's got to be inspiring.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: But you know what, like I'm a competitor and I train really hard and I want to.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: You know, I want to win some races.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I want to bump some elbows with the boys.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: You know I want to race the best, the best in the not only the country but the world someday.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: So I think I'm at a point in my running career quotation marks that I think I need to stop doing the fun local races because it's becoming kind of like no, you're just gonna win them all yeah, it's like winning school, but, um, I would rather get fifth to.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: You know, joe gray and cam smith and all those guys then win against, um, not as high level competition.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, so I think next year I want to.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Really, maybe I'm not going to race as much, but I want to do more high level races.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I think, uh, GoPro games will probably be high on the list again.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I did that one this year and then I guess this might be the fourth time if I do it in 2025.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Um, so yeah, and then probably some.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, I have a schedule like so, like a cool thing with me, me and my wife is like we work really hard and it's kind of coming out of all our pockets right, like I don't have a sponsorship or anything, um, so I'm kind of limited on the races that I I can do.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: So I have kind of a list of races that I I know that we can do financially, which is probably like gopro games and like maybe a cirque series race.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: And then I was thinking, uh, I've wanted to do this race for a long time.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Is that Power 4?
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that one looks sick.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Oh dude, you would torch that.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be so sick.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: But you know, like, whatever happens in the future, I mean, you know, I'd love to do Broken Arrow, vk, 26 or 23K.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: That's like a sick one, I've always wanted to do that.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: And then, like you were talking about the rut, it, rut, it's like, come on, you know, that's like a, an american sky race.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: That's just like so sick.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: So those races, would be cool.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: And then obviously, you know, um that one, I think that you, uh, you mentioned it uh alieska and cirque series dude, that's like my dream.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Race like dude that course is so beautiful and so sick.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, yeah, and like my dad's always want to go to alaska, so like I think it'd be cool to be able to use my legs to take my dad to alaska someday I'll see you out there, dude, next year.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Let's make it happen yeah, dude, I mean like that whole area like seward and stuff, dude, is that where it is?
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: It's like outside, so it's technically outside of like anchorage.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: It's like the greater anchorage area, but seward's not that far.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: I think it's like an hour or two drive.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all right there, mount dude you would have a blast at Mount Marathon.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: Dude, yeah, talk about VK Downhill.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there, you go right there.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: So nasty?
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's just like so much.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: The reason I ask is because I talk to people and everybody's got something bucket list wise of what they'd like to do or what they'd get into.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: There's a man.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Alaska would be so sick those two races Um obviously like the big, like the big European races like Zagama, dalmas, like those were so serious and all even though I would get absolutely torched.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: That's something I would seriously like love to do one day.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Just do that for fun.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, I was talking to my wife and because like we we'd long talked about like um, cause we haven't had our honeymoon, haven't had our honeymoon yet.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Like well, what do we want to do?
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Where do we want to go?
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: And like we're already like months removed.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Possibly we will be a year removed by the time we probably do it, but like never too late.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Uh, dude, I really thought about europe, but I was like damn, do I like if we do the honeymoon in europe, can I like race?
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: And I'm like that's probably a big no-no, like.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: So my thought was like all right, maybe I'll just do vks, yeah, so that way, I don't just yeah be done in 45 to an hour and then, like my, legs won't be destroyed yeah, and you can still go walk around town.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Exactly yeah, that's funny, I think the same way I'm like look babe, we can go here, but check out this race I could do too.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: She gets mad.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: So it's funny, it's just our way, our brains work well, that's the thing.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: like anytime I travel somewhere, I'm like we have to go back to New York next week for a family thing and I'm already looking at FKTs.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: I'm like what are these schmoes running?
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Let me see if I can take an FKT over here.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: That's exactly how I am dude, it's just I don't know man, it's just we love it.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: So it's like, yeah, any chance I can get to run some sweet trails or find a cool race, because, like, there's some hidden gems out there.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: so yeah, for sure, throughout the country there's all kinds, and even in the world like there's just all kinds of crazy stuff.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: So, dude you, uh, you stoked for the press conference later.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: A little elite athlete presser.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: It'll be cool.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: I've never been a part of one of those, so it'll be sick.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Uh, I watched the.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: You kind of had a little one for btmr yeah, yeah, that's the only one I've ever done.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: That's cool, yeah I, I like it.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: You know like, because when I came in uh 2022 for the golden trail, like all those guys sitting up there, it was kind of surreal, like you know, I like you.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Just see those guys, man, they're like superstars in our sport, right, like remy and freaking francesco, all those dudes you know like, I'm like wow, it's so cool to see them and see them at the start line, like our sport is so accessible, like so cool.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I'm excited, I'm excited to do something cool like that and yeah, to your topic on that.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: That's something I hope they never change like it's been like a hot button topic lately is like separating the elites from the rest of the field and I'm like how I don't.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I don't like that.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Like I think the best part about the sport is being able to have everybody together, you know yeah, like this year at uh, they just um at the headlands.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: They did like separate men's and women's races yeah that's kind of cool I think that part was good.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of cool I don't know.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I think golden trail is just getting so big, like you know, with I mean they're traveling all over the world.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: I mean there's tons of prize money, tons of sponsorships, like I think that's like the echelon of our sport, you know um, but yeah, like it is really cool to like line up with them.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, it's kind of I don't know yeah, I don't know what I would say to that.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like I get split on it because, like, for the women, I think it makes the most sense because like, for instance, like like I was talking to a make cook, we had her on the podcast and we were chatting about this.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: It makes a lot of sense for, like, the ladies in the front because if there's like, if they're passing, like slower dudes, it kind of slows down the race for them.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: So that's why I like the idea of like, separate, like, just like, if we're going to do all men, do all men, but have it, be everybody and do all women all on.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: yeah, that's, that's slick.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what was your experience?
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: I know you raced flagstaff sky peaks the year we had it as a golden trail race.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: What was that like?
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Like, I think I did better at that one because of the downhill and stuff obviously.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Um, but dude, like that was, it was kind of wild, like it started off pretty good.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, like just it was like jeep road, kind of single track through the Ponderosas up there, but then they just like they just route you like straight up the ski slope, like it was.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: It was nasty and I just remember like I was like right with like the lead women, so like Maud and Sophia and Allie were like like I was right next to them basically and like, dude, those europeans, man, like mad, just like freaking, just power hiked, like I've never seen somebody power like so gnarly before, just like so fast, like so crazy dude.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: So, uh, it was cool.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah and yeah I I wish they would do it again honestly, like I was hoping after I was like I hope they do it again next year, because like I feel like there's a lot of stuff like sofia, really like the last section was pretty flat, like like for a long time.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: And her not Sophia Ninky, how do you say her?
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Ninky, Ninky yeah.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: She just like freaking took because of her like marathon background a little bit Dude she just took off like freaking demon.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: So I was like, oh, I hope they do it again next year, Because I feel like with training, like we were talking about specificity, think that I could put in a lot of specific work for that one, and but I don't know I feel like those trails would complement, like where you live, a little bit more yeah, it's really good, like it was really nasty, but then, like those lower section, it was just like rolling like super fast.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: So I think having like access to really steep stuff, but also being able to turn your legs over like a demon after climbing and descending, that it's a.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: It's kind of a special, special trait.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's cool Beating those legs in the submission.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: And then be able to like fricking, send it.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: It was, it was nuts.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: But yeah.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know man.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to see where they go next year.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: I was kind of like it's the races they would like, like.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of races in the us that you could do or create your own, your golden trail series.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: So I think like having two in california is kind of yeah, I agree, I I don't know why they did.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: I mean that's no shade to headlands.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: I was surprised to see how much stoke the headlands one got just because like it's so fast.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: But, like we already know, these athletes are fast like I want to see them on, like some of the, and like mammoth is is very fast too.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: It's arguably one of the fastest ones they have, even though it's at altitude.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like to see something that's a bit more gnarly technical and we'll beat you to submission.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I just don't like, I don't know why they don't do like.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: The rot would be a great example.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: I I don't think they would probably go that route.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: But, um, do you even broken arrow?
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I just think it's where broken arrow falls in the list.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Obviously, Pikes makes tons of sense Like that should be.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the America's mountain right.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: That's right, dude.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Since 1950, 56.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: It's crazy.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, like the thing like we were talking about, like working on that speed training, I think that's why a lot of the you know, the track and road dudes that are coming over have such success because, like, american trail races aren't like, we do a lot of service roads, we do a lot of jeep roads, we don't like pick, necessarily pick the nastiest route, we don't pick the straightest, like straightest up the mountain route, like just you know, whereas I think those guys coming from europe, that's what they do all the time is like the nastiest, steepest stuff.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: So it's like I don't know, it's kind of tied.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Like you know, you kind of got to make a decision on of, like, if I'm going to do these american trail races there's, it's a very different focus than if you're going to go and race the european races you know it's true.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now and dude, you think about something like a zagama.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: There's nothing like that here dude, uh, yeah, I mean all those races dude, like like even like the after the first climb at mont blanc marathon and they're just like there's like that spaghetti bowl of trails and they're just like on the top of that ridge.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: I'm like we don't have races really like that here no, that's crazy.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Not at all.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: It is wild man like it's.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I get it.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: In america we have our permitting process, we have everything that makes it so much more complicated, but like damn dude, like yeah what it could be, though, like in the alpine.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: I know like we have so much cool stuff, but that's what makes like fkt school and stuff like we have a really good, like especially in colorado.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: There's like I mean an fkt for every peak, almost you know that's true, you opened yourself right into the conversation.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I was going like dude, like wheeler, peak, you've sat, you got the ascent, you got the round trip.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, peak one, you had a super stout time on that's a nasty mountain that's a good vk.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: It's a vk, dude uh, and it's like it's not.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: I mean you're going up to almost 13 000 feet on that bad boy yeah, I think who took that andy wacker but like didn't lower it by much, dude, dude, just show you like that's a stout time you put up yeah, that was a good, a good year.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Um, that I want to see, like that's.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: I want to come back and do a lot of those mountains peak one, if you ever get a chance dude, that 10 mile range is nuts like uh, because like what is it?
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: I-70s down there and like obviously like frisco breckenridge on the other side, but like when you're about to get up onto like the actual peak one dude, like you can like almost look down and see the interstate.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: It's like a straight shoof oh really, it's not.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: I've only gone up to victoria.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: I tried to crack the victoria fkt shout out, joe demore bastard.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: Um, but yeah, no, that was just not happening.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Um, but yeah, dude the v, the vk of peak one is bananas.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: I never went the full way to peak one.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: It's planning to go back kind of like levels.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: You get like a little slight break before you like grease, the actual peak.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: But dude, it's yeah, from what I remember, it's nasty and it's like loose coming down.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: Um, there's that funny segment on there going up to oh texan yeah, texan, have a heart attack, demise, whatever that one always cracks me up.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dude that one.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: I I gotta go back and do that one again I think there's two.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: There's chubby texans demise, and there's like watch the text and have a heart attack or something like that.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: It's pretty funny.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: It's true, man, that thing is no joke.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's see I've you know what and when.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: I did it dude something about like sitting in the car for two hours and then like shaking out the legs a little bit and you just I have a hard time getting the like, getting the up on that.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: So I'll have to come back and uh with poles properly and wax that wax that route.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever used poles up there.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: I think it would definitely be beneficial.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: It would definitely help dude holy smokes.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Well, the top of peak one isn't like it's a borderline scramble, isn't it?
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: it looks like from far away yeah, it's, it's pretty scrambly and yeah, you like you have to go through this like this little little canyon, like from what I remember, like, and then you're just like boom, right there did you ever do the full traverse to my I?
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: Didn't do it.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: It was like it's on my bucket list.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: I really wanted to do it before I moved from colorado, but I just never, never got around to it.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: It's a that's a sick one it is a sick one that's, and that's something I was really impressed with jackson like jackson cole last year put a stout time and now that's like his stuff right there.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's beast, yeah that's his stuff.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've done, uh, the, so I've done like the beginning of, obviously I've done peak one, and then, um, from like copper mountain, I've done peak eight, and then there's like a really cool route.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: You can like go up and over.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: If you wanted, you could like hit peak eight and you go over I forget what that pass is called.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: You drop down into like breksky area and you could tag peak 10 oh wow and it's like I did that one dude and it was, uh, it was in the fall and it was.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: It was the first snow and like everything was under a cloud and like so I didn't even get like a good view on top of peak 10, I was just like in the clouds and all you see I'm like this is kind of crazy that's neat, yeah, it was really cool.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Um, I have some cool pictures, I'll show you later yeah it's, it's pretty like oh, dude, that's rad colorado-esque.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was sick, super cool.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, the fkt scene it's.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: There's some like in colorado, like we've got some like gems man and they're so fast like the.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: You know, like seth and joe obviously are joe demore than joe gray too yeah dude, they're all just like if you're gonna go for one of those big boys like you yeah, you gotta be humming like literally dude before we like.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Literally five minutes before we started recording.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Erin ton just posted she broke the round trip on albert.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Oh for the women style yeah, yeah, who had it before?
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: I have no idea.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: I think Kim probably has the up still, or no?
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: Did she get that?
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I didn't even look.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Dude, kim Dobson, that's another.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: She's somebody I really want to talk to on the podcast.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Kim's really cool, so she lives in Eagle.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so for 2022, she helped me quite a bit with my training and, uh, I was getting a little bit of guidance from her, so like and she's just like one of the nicest people, dude, like you know, very generous with her knowledge and stuff, obviously with Pike's peak, I mean, she's she's the goat on Pike's peak.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: So easily.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I'm very thankful that she was nice enough to help me out a little bit.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: And for listeners.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: For those of you who don't know kim dobson, uh is like the legend of like before ali mac, before anybody came around there was kim dobson.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: Who was kim?
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: yeah, there was and she just like she's got the course record on the pikes ascent and like in I think it's 227.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: That might be right.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: It's like no one's come close.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: Like ninky, like I think Ninky was the only other person and maybe Allie wants to go under 240, but I could be totally wrong.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: I have to look at my notes before, especially before we have the athlete press conference.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: But yeah, like Kim Dobson, what she did this like just like one of the greatest feats of uphill, like any uphill running for women ever that's got to go next to Carpenters?
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: I think yeah, any uphill running for women ever it's got to go next to carpenters.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, oh, for sure, for sure, I mean it's so I don't know, it's the, it's the new, one Unbreakable record.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, why not Might as well?
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: It is kind of wild, though we have had mod Brinky.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: So many people come to run, show you so unique dude and like, yeah, just a beast.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: What did she do?
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: I think it was 2000,.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: It was either 12 or 14.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think 12.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: I got a short term memory, so yeah, man, she's, she's good.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so cool that you got pointers from her dude.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she's really cool and like she's.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Uh, I got two little boys and her husband too.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: They're he's, I think he's a doctor in Eagle there.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: They're, uh, they're living the American dream.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: They're really, they're really nice people.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: So that's cool, yeah, yeah.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: We'll have to chat with her soon?
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely that's dope dude.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: So what?
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Um, I know I kind of already asked you what's next and what's on the corner.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: We kind of pointed to some.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: You think after this year, if it's a good result, you'll put a, put a bow on Pike's peak and that call it good.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Never say never.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Never say never I said.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: I said, uh, after 2022,.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: I said I'll never do that race again.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Look at where we're at right now, so stoked to race tomorrow or on Sunday, so let's go All right, yeah.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you know, like I don't know it's, it's a, it's a very niche race, very unique race, um, and you know I'm okay if it takes one or two or three times to crack it or whatever.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: You know, like people keep like I mean, the best athletes in the United States um have to come back several times to master this race.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: So it's very it's okay, you know, if, uh, you know you don't have a, your ideal day, I think um just enjoying it and you did all you like.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, you put in all this work, all that work doesn't go nowhere, right?
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: So, uh, if maybe I don't know, never say, never like I said I like that, yeah.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about competition a few times.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: You talked about like you seem like this and it's a rare thing I see in athletes like not everybody feels this way.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: A lot of people are like, oh, I want to be strategic with what I pick.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: You seem like anytime, anyplace, anywhere, kind of guy.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: Hell, yeah, with competition I and I love that because, like we don't have too many of them floating around.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what is your relationship with competition?
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Like uh.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: So I touched at the beginning like motocross?
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Um was my kind of upbringing with sports.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Uh, and motocross is a very, very different um culture, competition wise, than trail racing or running in general Maybe.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, I would say running in general, um like, for instance, like you go to the start line, right, and you're waiting for your race to come up, or whatever, nobody talks to anybody.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: Like you don't?
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: There's no like it's, it's very cutthroat and you know, like at the highest level, um, like the elite athletes, like there's these guys, like you know, eli tomac is from colorado, or um, justin barsha, these are kind of like the elite racers of in the world.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Basically, they've raced each other since they were six years old and they don't say more than like two sentences to his, two sentences to each other all year.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: You know, like it's very, like they're so serious.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: So I just feel like I have kind of that in me.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: You know I've just I just want to do the best that I can and you know I I might seem like a dick, but I'll shake your hand at the finish line kind of deal you know like you're here to beat me, I'm here to beat you, and that's what we're here to do, so let's get on with it.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Um, that's just kind of the way I was brought up, uh well, there's conflict.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: This is the way I view it.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: There's conflict and then there's that's the race, and then there's conflict resolution.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: That's what happens after the race.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: I'll shake your hand and we can get a get a burger and a beer.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: But no, yeah, like I.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: That's why, you know, I, like I said, my wife and I work hard.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: We work full-time jobs.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: I'm a full-time parent and I'm a full-time runner.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: Like it's you know, I don't put in all this work for nothing.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: You know, my alarm goes off at like 4.30 every day.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: I got to run before work and I run after work and it's like, you know, all that sacrifice that you're making away from your family and social life and all these, all these things, you know, like trying to focus on your sleep and eating, and all these things.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: Like you can't, just like I don't want to say, just like, go have fun and do these things.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Like you know, you put pressure on yourself and you want to do good.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: And you know something like most people don't care, like I don't care, if you get fifth or 10th or 20th or 50th or whatever, or if you win.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: It's like it's on you.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: You know, like you put all this pressure on yourself.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: So, um, you know, like I said, all that sacrifice has got to go somewhere, so let's go anytime, any place anywhere.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Like I said, conflict, conflict resolution.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: That's the way it works and I think, like, like a lot of people, they choose races that they know suit them and they're gonna potentially win right?
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: I don't want to name names but like, like the year I did the ascent, like I'm not a very good climber but I'm like, you know how are you going to get better at it?
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: You have to put yourself in these uncomfortable situations if you want to like progress and get better in the sport.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: So, like, let's do shit.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: That's hard, yeah let's push ourselves sport so like let's do shit.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: That's hard.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's push ourselves.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's push ourselves.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Let's you know, like I said, I got to the top.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: I'm like I couldn't imagine running down.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: Well, guess what we're going to run down on Sunday.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and like, like the speed training and all that, like that's not fun, dude, Like I want to go run in the mountains little bit better.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: So, uh, yeah, I like to work hard and I like to perform and you know, um, I do like to win, but I find more joy, like I said, and just being one of the guys like if I got you know eighth place, but I was up there and I was rubbing elbows and I was in the thick of it.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: That's sick to me.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: I love it, you know like.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: You know, like it's better than winning a local race.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: That doesn't really say anything.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't want to be disrespectful to people, um, but it's uh, it's more rewarding, like I said, just to be one of the guys rubbing elbows and Well, you already know you can you know what you can achieve at a certain level, right yeah, and it's that unknown at the highest level of where you can go and continue to continue to claw and find, like, where you'll fit.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, there's nothing wrong with that, dude yeah if yeah, that fact from a legacy perspective and just from a career perspective, like that's the way you got to do it yeah, and I just like there's so many good dudes in our sport and like, like you said, there's the elite of the.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: You know, like eli hemming, like rem, those guys, like it's it's like inspiring to just see that and like really strive that like most people will never, ever get to that Cause, like they are the best in the world dude and it's like so exciting to me just to like see that and to watch them for 20 seconds as they pull away from me.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: Like it's cool, Like and it motivates me, like it's fun to try.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: It's fun to try and uh, you know, like it's cool, like and it motivates me, like, oh it's fun to try.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: It's fun to try, and uh, you know like they're probably working just as hard.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: So it's like if you slack off, you know that's just their gap is just going to get bigger on you.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: So that's just the way I look at it.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this yeah, what's, uh, what's the race day show?
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, uh, I like buy most of my stuff on sale.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: So, uh, like, I got these uh solomon, uh pulsar pros okay, on sale.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: That's what I've been doing most of my long runs in and then so, yeah, I'll do that.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: I wish there was a little bit more lug depth on them, especially if there's gonna be snow, but uh, I know my feet like them, they're, they're light enough.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: I've been running racing in the pulsars, the s lab pulsars, I think, like the short stuff, yeah, but I was like I don't want to bomb that downhill in those no I gotta wreck myself.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: So, uh, yeah, yeah those salmons are sick.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: All right, good to know, good to know, it's exciting.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, dude, it was funny.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Uh, this is complete and total tangent.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: I had a buddy reach out to me recently like it snowed a little bit.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: A basin for circus series, a basin he's like should I should I wear spikes?
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: I was like no, there's like, there's like an inch.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: There's not even an inch of snow on the ground.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Like what are you doing?
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: you'll kill yourself.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: You'll still get dirt out of that, it's just no yeah, that's funny spikes I was wondering, like I wonder like in a vk, like in some of those grassier vks, like if you could pull off like like a really like light, lightweight track shoe or something.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder, but joe, dude actually next well at the ascent.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: If you're at the start line tomorrow, probably look at what joe has on.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: Usually it's very interesting.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: It's nothing new in hoka's line it's always, usually a um.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: He wears these like evo jaws dude, those shoes are sick from back in the day they have like dye your feet blue, they're like thick lungs yeah, that's what I'm talking about, man, yeah, so it's just interesting to see like different, especially because, like he's, he's tip of the spear, one of the goats and to see him wear like just something super chill from like a gazillion years ago yeah, come on.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, if it works, it works.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: I wonder how many he's got stockpiled up oh, has to be like so this closet is my uh evoaws, I would imagine he has to.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: It's funny you say it Like I had George Foster on the podcast.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: He's a gentleman from the United Kingdom, dude, listen to this.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: He took sixth in 2019 from the second wave, dang.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, how many people did he pass?
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: I want to ask him.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: I'm so he might be there today.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: You might get to ask him.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: But yeah, might get to ask him um, but yeah, he um took six from the second wave, but he's a hoka eu guy, um, and he's got like he stockpiles these shoes as well like I guess everybody like.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: There's like a cult following for the evo draws.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: They should bring it back.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I should bring it back, yeah shout out to whoever's listening mike mcmanus, if you're out there.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Look it up um so yeah, all right, dude, we're winding down now.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: We we're almost at an hour, so I want to start getting to.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: I want to get some crazy questions.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: All right, what's your take on the aliens?
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Aliens?
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, funny story when we were in Taos.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: The start well, so, like New Mexico, I think New Mexico has like some alien heritage.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know, but like, like the or the.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: Uh, san luis valley is kind of by us.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: so I just remember being a kid driving through there and always looking at the alien, uh, lookout tower or whatever, but we were like, looking at the stars, we were laying back, looking at the stars, we were camping.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh man, it's really start thinking about it.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: Get all deep in it, dude, they're definitely there for sure.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: We were, oh, we were, uh, we were having a campfire when I lived in gypsum and, uh, you know, like, uh, I think maybe is it elon who does it like, are the spacex?
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: satellites, yeah, yeah dude.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: We saw them and I had no idea what they were.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: I was like holy shit they're coming, they're here oh, and then I like I googled it later like we got back to service I was like, oh, but that's still it was starlight satellite dude, it was crazy.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: I was like, wow, that's nuts my mom and dad my mom, my mom and dad live in south florida and one rent.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: This is like maybe a year ago and randomly, like I don't know, I had to have been like 9, 30, 10 o'clock at night, my phone blows up and it's all these photos of starlink satellites and my mom freaking out thinking she saw a ufo it was weird, like, and I felt like if you didn't know what it was, you would really think that it was, you know oh, for sure some sort of extraterrestrial action?
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: but, yeah, it was, it was cool.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I definitely think they're out there.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, how could you not?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: there's definitely dude.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: You've been to roswell.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: I have dude.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: It's so cool, super cool so actually, before we moved to new mexico, uh, my, for my wife's 30th birthday, we did like a huge road trip.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: Then we went through, down, through, like santa fe, and we went to, uh, carlsbad caverns down there, which are really cool if you go down there I would check that out beautiful, super sick.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: And we went to roswell too.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: So I was like, yeah, it was really fun alien museum.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Alien museum let me ask you a question.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: Let's go, uh, harry potter, lord of the rings, um alien or star wars?
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: oh, this is tough.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: I'd say lord of the rings, yeah yeah, I'm big, I have a harry potter tattoo, yeah, but I like, uh, I like lord of the rings are you watching the, the rings of power uh, I have.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: I started it a little bit, but I just couldn't like.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's not necessarily the same does not follow, doesn't follow the vibe, like I don't know it's just not.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: you know, know, it's not Peter Jackson, it is different.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: The second age stuff is I have a hard time like because you realize like these people are playing certain roles, but it's not the actor from the Peter Jackson era.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: So it's like, oh man, it's tough.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: It is, it is.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it, though I don.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's like clickbaity or but there's like the hunt for golem thing that keeps popping up dude I see the same thing, dude and there's like interviews with gandalf uh about it.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: So I'm like that would be sick dude.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: These videos, these like reels keep popping up on my phone of of like it's like this, like ai face, of like um ian mckellen as gandalf, like reviewing the shows and like talking shit it's so funny, oh man that's funny, yeah and uh.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Fyi gandalf's the main character I saw you post that.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: I saw you post that.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: I think you're right me throw me through I forget what his name are.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: Uh, the dwarves call him something different too, but me through, uh, me thandre me that's right is his real is his like true name, I think the elven.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, his elven name.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't know.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: He hung hung out in uh valinor for a long time before he came.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: That's where he came from.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's dope.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was sent.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: Uh, sent for one task yeah, yeah, he fucked, fucked, sauron up yeah he did for those of you that have no idea what I'm talking about, check out the lord of the rings.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: Uh, the lore is is amazing.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's um all right.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: So a couple more questions.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: You take on bigfoot yeah, yeah, uh.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: So like where my parents live, uh, that's like they're really into bigfoot over there in like bailey, colorado.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: It's like a really small town, kind of like when you're on your way to fairplay from denver, and like they have like a whole shop like devoted to bigfoot.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: I don don't know, man, I'm going to say yeah because I want to, but I'm going to say no because that's what my heart says.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, or my brain says I'm going to go yes for my heart and no for my brain.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: Fair enough.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: That's a different one, that's a whole different conversation.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: All right, last question who inspires you?
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, who inspires you?
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, yeah, I was hoping you were going to ask this question actually, um, so I thought about it quite a bit on, you know, just through training and stuff.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: Like I always like to kind of draw, you know, some energy from whatever and I, you know, I think like a dad, my dad has been like a really big part of my life.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know he's I come from like a blue collar family.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: Like my dad worked, my mom and my dad worked really, really hard and they kind of didn't come from anything.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: So I mean they built it all, uh for us.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: You know, and it's just like kind of going back to those motocross days Like my dad.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: Like my dad would just be driving through the night to like get us to these races or whatever, and then like go to work the next day.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: Like I don't think I ever remember my dad calling into work.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: You know, like he's just a very hard worker and he's always like he's probably like the nicest guy you'll ever meet, you know, unbiased, um, just uh, really supportive and always knows what to tell me, you know.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: So it's like whether I have a good day or a bad day, I know that, like they'll be, like both my parents will be there yeah so um, yeah, yeah I love that man.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: That's a good one, really cool really good something to look up to.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: They're they're amazing yeah, oh, dude, you don't learn that work ethic without having good parents.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: You know to help kind of see you or guide you yeah, my parents have been been through hell and back and they're still, they're still, uh, doing amazing and, yeah, I couldn't thank them enough for, you know, raising me and giving me a good platform, you know, to be the man I am today and be the father I am today to my daughter and wife to my, or husband to my wife.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, Love that.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to go one more.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: I'm curious what's your take on AI these days?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: Do you follow that?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Do you follow that stuff?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: I don't man Like, like I, I don't know I like I try to.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: I do need to get off instagram a little bit and, like I, just see stuff pop up.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: I'm like that can't be real or like there's like pictures of people or they're doing like funny things, like like trump doing something silly like, and it's like him riding a motorcycle or something like ridiculous, like just stuff, and I'm like I need to get off.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: This is brain rot, you know so it's like yeah, I don't know I just want to like my wife, and i's dream is to like save up some money, buy some property, garden, have some uh animals and just check out so I feel very similar I want to be a sheep herder in sardinia, bro yeah I want to like go live up out in the middle of nowhere, in wyoming, somewhere where there's, like, not a person within an hour of me and just live life.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, do Wyoming's dope.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wyoming's pretty wild.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: I lived there for like two years.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was nuts.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: Like the part where we were.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: I was living in between Cheyenne and Laramie.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like we lived you were out there.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: Like I was in middle school, seventh grade, and, yeah, man, like there are days you just can't leave your house because it's just like snow drifts and crazy, like semis would be blown over on the highway and like it was crazy.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: Wow, it was sick yeah.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: I would live there again.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: It is Dude.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: I got a kick out of it.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: Like I went up there for Cirque d'Antargy and I was like, oh, dude, this is, this is a good spot.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: I told michelino and sarah, I was like bro, you got it.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: You got a good spot up here in driggs, not bad.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: I know I listened to that one.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: I was like man, I need to get up there do you have to check it out?
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: yeah, yeah, it's really cool.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: The only thing is they have grizzly bears, but so I know I'm not so sure about this one but yeah, wyoming least populated state yeah, give me some mountains me some mountains.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: Give me some trail.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Give me some, give me some chickens.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: That's right yeah.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: Well, dude, on that note, thanks for coming, man.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: I'm glad we finally got to do this.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: Hopefully this is the first of many.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: Um want to check us out.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: We got all of our information and stuff on there.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Um, our instagram is pretty fun.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: Uh, we got some little projects that we're doing with some race organizers and stuff down in new mexico, so if you want to check it out and give us a follow, that'd be cool.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: Sounds good to you.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: And what's your Instagram?
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: Personal one.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: Uh, as a Hefe which is J E F E dot Kuno at on Instagram.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: It's very New Mexico.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah Well do good luck.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what'd you guys think?
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: What a special episode.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: Thanks, jeff, so much for coming on the pod.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: Just a great, great, down to earth dude Like everybody should know about Jeff Cuno.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: Like the dude is a hard worker, great athlete and just someone you definitely would want to have on your team running for you.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, good dude Guys, hop on Instagram, give them a follow.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: Just type in jefecuno that's very New Mexico of you, jeff.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: Just type in F a J E F E dot Q.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: No, that's very New Mexico of you, jeff.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, f a, j E F E dot C U N L Uh, and give the man a follow.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: Send him a DM, let him know what you guys uh were thinking about the episode.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: Send him some words of encouragement as he uh starts to build um for his winter block and then gets ready for another year of racing next year.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: Um, last but not also, hop on If you guys are interested in coaching.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Jeff has a coaching business.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: It's called Primal Jeans Coaching.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: It's actually on his Instagram as well.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: Very straightforward, super easy primal P-R-I-M-A-L dot jeans, dot coaching and you get to learn more a little bit about his coaching philosophy.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: And if you're looking for a coach.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: You know someone that excels at a high level.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: That's definitely somebody to talk to is Jeff.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: So shoot him a DM if you guys are interested in coaching and, like I said, go give him, as well as his brand, primal Genes Coaching, a follow.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: Very, very last but very, not least, um, if you guys are on Spotify or Apple, give us a rating and review.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: Five stars would be amazing.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: Uh, we want to get this out to the world.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: We want the world to learn about these amazing athletes and, just, um, you know the coverage we're doing of this amazing sport that we love so much.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that'd be kind of dope.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: I would appreciate that.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: Uh, guys, have a great weekend, have some great runs, enjoy yourself, especially if you're in the mountain West and it's still unusually warm.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: Um, it's still time for the high country, I guess.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, have a great rest of your week, enjoy people.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you you.