Latest / The Unconducted Curriculum / Episode 7: Practice Not Pressure

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Episode 7: Practice Not Pressure · The Unconducted Curriculum

• Chris McLellan: How can band directors and parents help students practice consistently without turning the instrument into another source of stress, frustration, or conflict? So one thing to to consider is maybe the student isn't a reluctant practicer. because they're lazy. Maybe it's they're overwhelmed, embarrassed, or simply don't know where to begin. or how to practice something. I've been in many classrooms where the instruction is and I've said it myself when I was a younger director, go home and practice. What does that mean? You know, that's that's the thing. tina: Yeah. No, exactly. It is. It's like, you know, they have to have a direction. to practice, of what they're gonna do. and then starting in the beginning band part of instructions that are, very plain and simple of you're gonna start with this and then go to this and then go to this. I even had Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: things that had like a sheet that had that like numbered one to five and with time limits. Like, you're gonna just use it like for buzzing or for small instruments is that you're gonna Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: buzz on your mouthpiece and do the exercises we been doing in class for five minutes, you know, and they have timers that they can use on their computer and like, Siri or Alexa's or whatever that they could even do that so it can break it down. And then the next thing is you're gonna put your instrument together and then you're gonna do long tones, but you like have them write out step by step what they're gonna do, get the parents involved with that step by step process too. because Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: kids don't practice because some because they don't know what to practice. They don't know the yep. And yep, and mm mm. Chris McLellan: They don't know what to practice. They may not have a a comfortable or quote unquote safe space to practice where they they feel like they're tina: Yes. Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: not being judged or listened to by others in the household. tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: You know, I mean I was that way when I was a kid and tina: Mm. Chris McLellan: I would come home every day and get home probably an hour to an hour and a half before my parents would. And this is when I was in middle school. and and also in high school and The thing I loved to do when I first got home was was put on my headphones, turn on my record player, and and play on my drum set. Play along, you know. I tina: Mm-hmm. Play along. Yeah, that is fun. Yeah. Chris McLellan: play along the journey and Van Halen and whatever, and just learn how to play drum set, by doing that. And there was another guy across the street from us, who was a couple of years older than me. but he was also in the Martin Band program and he played drum set and he was really good. And so we would tina: Mm. Chris McLellan: have we would open up our our windows because we both had rooms on the front of the house, you know, facing tina: how cool. Yeah. wow. Chris McLellan: each other. And we would have little drum duels, and he would smoke tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: me every time. But, you know, he was he was older. But I learned a lot from just doing that kind of thing, So we're gonna kinda talk about, some of those ideas, that was old school having a practice partner where now we may do it on Zoom or, something like that. tina: Yeah. No, it's true. And you're saying that, when I would come home and I would practice and I had a certain spot in my room and I'd shut the door and Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: my parents could hear me, but they never griped about it. But I didn't have like younger brothers and sisters to interrupt or to disturb. So it is like really developing when's a good time for our household, where. Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: You know, all Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: of that. That's so important because family matters, you know, and also to have the support of your family. So you really have to Chris McLellan: Right. tina: talk to, the whole get the whole family involved in having a comfortable time where they do that. And I wish when I was learning and and playing in middle school and high school that they have the capabilities of like you're saying, you could put headphones on and play along with the song. I couldn't do that being a clarinet beginner because you Chris McLellan: Right. tina: know, you didn't have the music in front of you. now Nowadays it's amazing the things that they can just Google and find on YouTube or whatever it is, the music. Chris McLellan: yeah. Well, and even if they have, a subscription to smart music and they can pull up anything and, tina: Yes Yes Chris McLellan: just start kind of playing along. I mean, yeah, things are a whole lot different. tina: Yep. Chris McLellan: But Tina, why don't you tell us your thoughts? What are what are some common barriers that you've encountered with beginners of maybe why they don't practice? tina: Well, the thing I started with a minute ago is they don't know what to practice. there has Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: to be a plan. It has to be either typed or written out. for them to know exactly what that plan is. and they need to know about how long it's gonna take, But sometimes, I know we want them a certain amount of time per week or whatever, but sometimes they can get it done in 15 minutes. And that may be able to be like the first like practice records you may want to start for beginners. And then you increase Chris McLellan: Yeah, yeah. tina: to 20 minutes and then maybe 30. But my main thing was did they check the goals of each each of the things they were supposed to do? and you can tell by their pass offs and when you hear. them if they're practicing and their muscle memory too. You know, but also the safe space to practice. and Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: for them, the family to support that, not complain about it, and have that time where okay, Tina's gonna practice and she's gonna be pretty loud, and she may squeak a little bit, from 5 30 to 6. And I'm just, you know, making that up on what I what I would Chris McLellan: Right. tina: do. But you know, the other thing is not being afraid of practicing and making mistakes, and also for the family to know that it's not gonna sound perfect on everything that anyone does at home. Even when I like practice my clinic at home. Now, some from playing in the Carrollton wins, I'm not perfect all the time. I have to go back and I have to, do stuff too, but to not be afraid of that, to be it's okay to make Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: mistakes. let's see. also you have to begin to identify the problems, If you're starting talking about beginners right now, and it may be that they're having to like match a pitch on a tuner. so they have to know how to pull up a free tuner or if like they have a tuner that comes in their beginner kit, how to work that, how to feel confident in that, to be able to feel Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: the success and how they can fix some of those problems. And then if they can't fix it, for them to be able to come back and comfortably be able to ask you. Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: or you cover it in class in doing that. And it just needs not to feel like homework. It needs to feel more like a game they're playing at home, because they're not gonna write down a lot of stuff. They may, some, but it has a flow to what they're doing. You know, and it starts with some warm-up things and goes into, practicing different exercises or whatever it is. And then ending, like I always had the last five minutes, pick songs you want to play. Play stuff. Chris McLellan: Right. tina: Go play for your parents. And I would tell Chris McLellan: Yes. tina: parents in emails: look, this Thursday, their main practice thing after their practice is to go play any line they want to pick from line nine to 16 for you. You know, and so that was like really an encouraging thing where they'd go out there and perform. And I'm okay if you w Chris McLellan: Right. tina: wanna sit down and perform, walk around and perform, and I'm I'm just saying things like that so they feel comfortable and they feel like, I can be successful and go play for my parents. And it's okay if I miss a note here or there. I'm just gonna keep going. And parents Chris McLellan: Right. tina: want to hear them. So having a goal, Chris McLellan: Yeah. Well that's true. tina: yeah. Chris McLellan: Yeah. I mean my parents, when they got home is when I would stop practicing because it was a drum set and it was loud tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: and I didn't want to, disturb them. But more often than not, you know, I would stop and my dad would come in and, knock on the door and say, Why'd you stop? I want to hear some of that, you know. tina: Right. No, mine would too. Chris McLellan: and it's kinda like, Okay, And then at that point I was like tina: Mine my mom yeah Chris McLellan: Well, I don't want to play anymore today, you know that kind of tina: Right. Well my mom would come in and say, What is that? You know, 'cause like when I started Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: like seventh and eighth grade start doing like all region music, there she would she was like, Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: That's not a song. But then I like explained to her what it was, you know, and the difference between like Chris McLellan: Right. Right. tina: playing We Will Rock You and This but Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: it it helped her be involved more, and she was she was interested and she goes, okay, that's that's I I get it now, and she goes Keep practicing sounding good, but involving Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: the parents, making sure the parents understand like what they're practicing. Like I said, like with an email of hey, everyone's starting or in the newsletter, you know, they're starting all region music, and our region music is this. And or, Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. tina: you should not be hearing we will rock you 400 times at home, or Seven Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: Nations Army 400 times at home. That's not, you do that at the end, but Chris McLellan: Well yeah, and and I think it's our job too to educate the parents, tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: what practice is, why it's important and all the things that go along with that. And we'll talk about that in a little bit. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: I kinda wanted to circle back to a couple of things you said, talking about how much time they practice. And tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: my thing was, okay, we're beginners this first six weeks, most of the things we're gonna do is gonna be during class because tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: I don't want you to go home and develop bad habits. But tina: Bad habits, yeah. Chris McLellan: once we start taking those instruments home, for me it was 10 minutes. Let's start with 10 minutes, and because I'm not gonna give them a whole bunch of things to practice. I'm gonna give them one or two things to go home and reinforce from class tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: so that hopefully they will feel some success and some progress from just working on one or two things. tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: And it's ten minutes. The point to me at that point is to get them in the routine of doing it. It's not so much how long they're doing it, but tina: Yeah. Mm mm. Chris McLellan: take your horn home, get it out of the case, and actually practice for ten minutes. That's tina: Yes. Right. Chris McLellan: all we're asking, you know? tina: You know, and I'd even say, I say practice, you know, just like if you're gonna practice dribbling a basketball, but it's really just I want you to play for 10 minutes. Play for Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Just play your music. Yeah. tina: 10 minutes. And also like kids would tell me after like the first week, because it would be like 10 minutes, like you're saying, the first week we would start doing that after about five or six weeks of school. And Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Right. tina: they would be they would write down 15 and 20 minutes. Majority of kids went over the time because Chris McLellan: Yes. tina: they were having fun. or they Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: just lost track of time. And so, but if you give a smaller time goal, they're going to be more apt to do it. And the parents are going to go, go do your 10 minutes. You know, but then the parents know you're going to increase the next week maybe 15. so if you're on a schedule of increasing and a lot of them just saying, well, I'm already at 20, but that's that's the way. Do small amounts of time, like you're saying. Chris McLellan: Yeah, and for me that was based on the grading period. So the first six weeks, tina: Y yeah. Chris McLellan: horns didn't go home. We were just doing fundamentals in class to get them started. The second six weeks it was ten minutes. The third six weeks it was fifteen. The fourth it was twenty, twenty five, and by the end of their sixth grade year that was thirty minutes. Yeah. And that tina: Thirty, yeah. No, that's a great Chris McLellan: was our goal is to get them to that thirty minute, you know, tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: point so that when they entered seventh grade, that's what they're used to. And we start with that in seventh grade and tina: Hm. Yes. Chris McLellan: and honestly too, because I've I've talked to folks about this before and they're like, Well, we have practice cards and blah blah blah and it's thirty minutes they have to do every day all year long and I'm like, Well, what is a beginner gonna do in the second six weeks for thirty tina: Mm. No. Chris McLellan: minutes at home? They don't have the chops, the muscles for it, they don't have the the repertoire for it, you know, you're playing tina: No. Right. Well, and even if you're having them practice counting lines, which I agree with that they do, it's still not going to be that much time. No. It has to be a gradual Chris McLellan: Yeah. Yes. It's not gonna be that much time. No. So tina: thing that that adds up. Because then, like Chris McLellan: Yes. tina: we're both saying is as the year progresses, you have real music that they can practice, like a whole holiday tune or whatever. So you know, that gives more time, Chris McLellan: Right, right. Then it then it tina: yes. Chris McLellan: yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely. tina: And you know, something else that, the practice record will say, you need to have, I'm just making this up, a hundred minutes for the whole week. And you'll have a kid, Chris McLellan: Uh-huh. tina: kid turn in that they practice Sunday for three hours. You know, and you know, ours ours Chris McLellan: Right. tina: always said that it was it had to be per day. And you could not Chris McLellan: Right. tina: do, you could do more on a day, but it did not count. So it Chris McLellan: But then count, yeah. tina: Yeah, so like five days a week they made a hundred, if you're gonna use a grading system and four was a ninety. And even if they turned it in signed, at the end of whenever that is, they turned it in signed and even if they had zero and their parents signed it. We still gave a 60 or a 70, I can't remember. We still gave a grade Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: because they were accountable, and trying to encourage them, to keep going and try to do more days. But it's just Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: something to be positive and work with the kids until they finally Chris McLellan: Right. tina: get it. Chris McLellan: Well, and I kinda wanna talk a little bit about why practice outside of class really changes everything. tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: to me there's there's benefits. Number one is muscle memory, and and and I don't ever tell the kids this. I don't like to relate practice to homework, you know, tina: Mm-mm. Chris McLellan: but it's like you learn something in class and if you don't go home and reinforce that. and practice what you did in class a little bit, then the next day you're almost starting all over again. And so the muscle memory thing is is key. fingers, embouchure, breathing, drummers with sticking, slide movement on trombones, all tina: Yes, all of that. Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: that stuff requires muscle memory and it requires more than, a few minutes during class that they're actually doing some of those things sometimes. to me tina: Well, I like to relate it to muscle memory and I know I keep going back to sports, but the reason why I keep going back to sports and I do to the sixth graders and seventh and eighth graders is because Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: many of them have started being on a team of soccer or whatever. Like five years Chris McLellan: They already understand, yeah. tina: old, six years old. They understand what a coach is and that I am a coach. I'm just a music coach, so I'm called a band director, and that that the muscle memory of when you're learning a sport or doing a sport, and I'll give an example of one, you know, and I'd like, how many times did you do that? And I'd have kids raise their hand, like volleyball girls raise their hand. Like, how what did you practice? You know, like spiking or whatever. How many times did you do it in a row? and I'd say, do you practice that outside of your, when you're practicing on the court? And they'd say, Yeah, the same thing. It's muscle memory with that. and they relate to all of that and they're like, I get it, but you're a co we're coaches. Chris McLellan: They do. Well, and the first thing I did with my beginning percussion is before we ever picked up a pair of sticks and the gym was across the hall from the band hall where I taught the percussion class. And we would go over to the gym and I would give each kid a basketball. Okay, we're gonna dribble the basketball and we're gonna feel tina: I lo Yeah. Chris McLellan: this motion of, using your wrist and pushing this down, and catching it and coming back up and kind of that motion. and relating it to the basketball right off the bat and how we dribble a basketball. And they all could do that, And then we would go into the classroom and grab a pair of sticks, and I wasn't super concerned with grip yet, you know, tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: but let's just start dribbling that basketball. Let's let tina: Right. Chris McLellan: that ball, let's let the tip of that stick rebound back up. don't choke it off, all those types of things. And I mean, tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: they would get that concept so much faster. from just going and dribbling that basketball, so just kind of doing those things that they they already know how to do, you tina: Right. Chris McLellan: know, just that that helps. tina: And I bet it was for some kids that never even dribble to basketball. It's probably fun for them. They went in there, wow. You know? So Chris McLellan: Yeah. Yeah. tina: it it is. It's so relatable to what they Chris McLellan: It is. tina: know or wanted to do. And, just I think that's a great way to do it. I love that. Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: I've never heard of anybody saying the basketball. I think it's great. You just communicate with the coaches, they'll let you do that. They'll love to let you do that. Chris McLellan: yeah. Yeah. They n they they I would always say, Hey, first day of drums. They're like, How many basketballs you need? And they would just pull out a cart of basketballs and we'd just sit tina: Yeah. All right. Chris McLellan: in there and the gym class was going on, but we're over here in the corner just dribbling a basketball, you know. tina: Yeah, yeah. Chris McLellan: And I would even have kids come up, younger kids coming up and saying, What are y'all doing? it's like, tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: Well, we're fixing to learn how to play drums. But you're dribbling a basketball. Yeah. It's real similar, you know. And I'm like, tina: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Hoping, that that will stick with them for the next year. tina: Well, so now you're making me think of all those the stomp videos. Chris McLellan: Uh-huh. tina: I don't know if anyone shows them anymore. They were awesome with all the rhythm they would do with basketballs and brooms and the kids loved Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: it. I loved it when it first came out because I'm like, see, you can make rhythm out of anything. We can clap, we can whatever. and if you do one of Randall Stanford's tune, you can do Chickens. You can squeeze that and make them do that. And it's fun. Chris McLellan: Yeah, yeah. So it's a chicken head. tina: Yes. And it's rhythmical. But you know, anything to get them excited about rhythm. and I know like the next thing on the list is that the importance of rhythm confidence is like relating it to different things so you can count and clap and but that's everyone in band that they need to be doing that. Chris McLellan: Yeah, absolutely. and the way I would relate that to kids too is you know, like you're riding in the car, mom and dad have the radio on, just tap your foot, tina: Mm-hmm. Yes. Chris McLellan: Just try to just feel the beat, just tap clap your hands, go back and forth, Yeah. So much music, yeah. tina: Video games. Video games have so much music now. just pat your foot with it You know, and like and also I'd like bring up so what video games do you play? What music is there? And a lot of kids go, Yeah, it's this or whatever. I said, Can you pat your foot to it? They're like, Yeah, I'm gonna do that tonight. You know, because rhythm's everywhere. Mm-hmm. And it makes it very, very important. Chris McLellan: Mm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's ev it's it's everywhere. Well, and the third thing that I think too, besides, just muscle memory, rhythm confidence, is sound awareness. when you're when the only time you play is when you're in an ensemble and you don't play by yourself at home, you don't know what you sound like. You don't know what you sound like without the band around you. and and I think that's a a That's a big thing too, is you need to know how you sound. and the more you play by yourself, the more confident you get with your sound. so I think that's another important part of it. Independence is the fourth one, you know, students tina: Mm-hmm. Yes. Chris McLellan: begin problem solving themselves, you tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: know. It's like give them the tools and kind of like what we talked about on last week's podcast with decks and teaching marching sets, like where they're getting out of the way and letting the kids bump into each other a little bit and kind of figure things out on their own. well it's kind of the same thing with independence in in music. tina: Yeah, at home, yeah. Chris McLellan: I figured out so many things by myself through curiosity before I ever learned them in class. one specific tina: Yes. yeah. Chris McLellan: thing I remember was dotted eight sixteenth rhythms. I I was doing something and I had this rhythm and it was a dotted eight sixteenth. And the way I would figure out rhythms is I would draw a whole measure of sixteenth notes, you know, sixteen sixteenth notes. And I would sit there and try to figure out, where are these notes falling? And I would figure out dotted eight and sixteenth by myself because we hadn't been taught that yet. tina: Hm. Chris McLellan: but it was something that I needed for whatever piece of music I was trying to learn And it was like that independence is important, that problem tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: solving is important. and then that's I think the final thing is rehearsal success. They're gonna be more confident, better listeners, less anxiety, greater ability to contribute to the ensemble when they're practicing outside of class. And I know as band directors, we all know these things. Right? This is not tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: well, we're not saying anything that we don't all know. but what we're really kind of digging into is how to get them to wanna do these things. tina: Right. Chris McLellan: And and and for it not to be Yeah. tina: And the confidence, like you're saying, yeah. Yeah, and the confidence. You know, and nowadays, like I keep saying, you know, you can go to YouTube or whatever, and like even a beginner having trouble like a sound's not making or they can't play in tune they can google that also like on some of the beginner books there's videos on the beginner book that you can Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: find help things to do and that that's okay and show the beginners videos. Yes. So encouraging. Chris McLellan: Well, and kids already they already do that themselves anyway. You know, I had a s tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: I had a high school student a few years ago and there's a clarinet solo and it's from a I think it's a Tom Hanks movie. I can't remember the name of the movie, but he's like a Russian that gets trapped in this airport or something. tina: I know what you're talking about. I don't know about the music. Yes, he has to live in the airport. He lives in it. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Well, but anyway, the music for the the yeah, the movie the music for the movie was written by John Williams. But she came to me and she said, I wanna play this this John Williams piece for solo and ensemble. And I like, Well, that's not gonna be on the list. It's John Williams. it was on the list. It's absolutely on the clarinet's class one list. And I can't remember tina: No. Yeah. No, really? I okay now I now I need to look up what that is. Yeah. Chris McLellan: the name of it. I should have looked it up, but I didn't know we were gonna get into this, but tina: Right. I know we need to look it up. Chris McLellan: You know, the but she had seen the person who recorded that clarinet part, it's a famous European clarinetist, doing it in concert with an orchestra, with John Williams conducting, on YouTube, and that's where she fell in love with the piece and was like, I have to play this piece and it's a gorgeous piece. But it it was on the class one list. And so she played it for contest. But they already do those things. They're already tina: Right. Chris McLellan: looking at YouTube, they're already finding things that they want to do. And and I think that's great because they're taking some ownership too in their own learning. And I think that's great with beginners, how you would say, play something you want to play at the end of practice, you know. And I would do the same thing. it's like, here's some here's some fun stuff that we're not necessarily gonna work on in class. But try to play these. These these will be cool. You'll like these. That was stuff that they would recognize or know, tina: I had to Google it. It is Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: Victor's Tale. Yep. Chris McLellan: Yes, yes, yes. tina: And it's by Victor Novorsky. And it, yeah, that it was in there and made famous. And John Williams wrote the lead for it from that. So they got Chris McLellan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. tina: to play the real one. You know, you know, Chris McLellan: Yeah. Yeah. tina: that's really cool that they could do that. That's great. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Yeah. I mean it and it it's a gorgeous piece. It really is. And she played it r extremely well. And one of the reasons tina: Mm. Chris McLellan: why she played it so well is because it was something she was passionate about wanting to play. And she found it on her own. and I think that's that independent learning and that's also the ownership of, tina: Mm-hmm. And that's that independence learning and confidence. Yeah. Chris McLellan: giving them that ownership of practice and it's not always exactly you have to practice this, this, this, this, this, this, especially as they get older. giving them that ownership and I tina: Mm-hmm. Yep. Chris McLellan: think we'll talk a little bit more about that later. and we've go ahead. tina: Yeah. go ahead. I was just gonna say, we're touching about on all of this and we already kind of touched about, like the 30 minute practice myth myth, like how long Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: do have to practice? and we talked a little bit about it, but people say go home and practice and for 30 minutes or whatever, instead of, giving them specifically what to practice and what's like required of them. and like mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Chris McLellan: And not only what, but how and at what tempo and this, like be specific because that's what our situation we worked we were the private lesson teachers at our high school. I had tina: yeah. Chris McLellan: a few private lesson teachers from time to time when I could get them that would come in and teach some things, but I pretty much taught most of the Woodwind kids myself at the high school. and my assistant tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: taught the brass kids and our percussion person taught the percussion kids at the high school. And tina: Right. Chris McLellan: we worked with those kids, on their region music, their solos, all that stuff all year long. And what I mostly did was teaching them how to practice. This is what I want you to do. We're gonna tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: break this week into this small chunk of music. We're gonna start at this tempo. I want you to build a measure at a time, put those measures together, gradually increase your tempo. we would work through that in our lesson the way I wanted them to work through it at home and be very deliberate about telling them, This is how we're tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: you know how we did this in in our lesson. Go home and repeat that. Repeat that process, and that was tina: Yeah. And Chris McLellan: what was really successful. tina: yeah, and you really can do that even in a band setting. You can Chris McLellan: Yes. tina: tell them, everybody in here, get out your lyrical piece. Okay. So I want everyone to look at the first four measures. And Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: I want you right now to like position through, this is after they've gone over it a little bit, so now I'm gonna give you 30 seconds to count it out loud. Maybe count and position, it depends on the level they're at. Okay, you have 30 seconds. Do that, and I want to hear you counting. And that gives them confidence to count at home out loud and not feel silly. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: But I would hear them like one, whatever. I like to touch the page where it is, Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: and then I go to like positioning. but I Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: gave them 30 seconds and I would do a countdown: five, four, three, two, three. One and then I say, okay, so now this time I want you to position first and if you want them to air, they can. And then I'm gonna give you a whole minute. I want you to practice just those four minutes. I mean those four measures. And then I'm gonna take some volunteers and you don't have to go fast to play those four measures for everyone. You know, and Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: so then they it'd be loud in the room and it's okay. And I'd walk around and point and whoever's in the room to help would go, that's good or whatever. And then when my minute or two minutes went off, I was like, okay, who would like to volunteer? Remember, doesn't have to be perfect. Well I just want to hear four measures, and all the the hands would go up and we would shuffle af after each one played. But and I was like, you need to do that at home. This is what you need to do at home. Just do small chunks, count them. Position them, play them over and over again. like you're saying, just to feel comfortable in that realm. And and then also you're teaching them how to practice in your band, the full band. Chris McLellan: Yeah. Yeah. Well and we had that talk a lot, it's like how tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: I'm rehearsing is how I need you to go home and practice. tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: Are we when we rehearse something, how are we doing that? And I'm asking them questions, and they're like, Well, we're breaking it down. How are we practicing? How are we tackling this this technical tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: phrase? Well, a beat at a time. And then we're adding to it. Okay. Can you do that at home? Yes. tina: Right. Chris McLellan: but until you teach that. And you deliberately talk about that, this is how I'm rehearsing, this is how I need you to rehearse it at home, they don't know, and tina: Mm-hmm. Right. Chris McLellan: and I that's that's the biggest thing. And I I don't remember ever being taught that when I was and I took private lessons, in middle school and tina: I wasn't. Yeah. Chris McLellan: high school and stuff like that. And I don't remember that ever being a deliberate thing. tina: Right. Mm mm. No. Chris McLellan: You know, until I got to college. It's when I really learned how to practice. practice. and so that was something I always wanted to make sure my students understood. And I could have kids that, we had the thing at the high school where every student has to do a solo. Period. you have to do tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: a solo for solo and ensemble because everybody can find something that's at their level and will challenge them enough to help tina: Right. Chris McLellan: them improve. not everybody's gonna play a class one solo and that's okay. tina: You about the middle school level, you every s beginner has to do a solo. And it could be, a thing in their beginner book that's like sixteen measures long, or the solo Chris McLellan: Right. Right. tina: that the beginner book supplies. Or there's a lot of great little books out there that will do, like they're almost like class four solos, is kind of but Chris McLellan: Mm. tina: I never said that out loud, but beginner solos and that they could do. Also, sometimes I would do like two solos in the Beginner class that I was teaching, and they got to pick which one, or I helped Chris McLellan: Pick which one, yeah. tina: them pick which one because one may have done a had a little bit more. you know, technique to it or whatever, but everyone Chris McLellan: Yeah. Right, right. tina: has to play a solo and you have to have some kind of solo fest, even if you do it at your school, and let parents come in and watch them and listen and support them. Because once again, that gives them that time to shine and they're playing by themselves. And you could have Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: a recorded piano accompaniment like from smart music or whatever, or anything like that. But It just but it also gives you, like you said, it has a goal to practice. It's almost like the beginner's first step for like almost like teaching all region music too, but it's a solo because you're working on a piece that goes into that. But I agree because you're developing the individual musician and the more Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: that they have to do and the more they have to play by themselves. It's gonna make them stronger and make your band team stronger. Chris McLellan: Well that was yeah, that was always my philosophy, when I was teaching was at the high school level there's not two seasons. There's not marching concert season. There's three seasons. There's marching season, there's individual season, there's concert season. You tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: and we did not make every student try out for region band because not every student was tina: Mm mm, yeah. Chris McLellan: developed enough to do that successfully. Our top tina: Hmm. Yeah. Chris McLellan: band kids, yes. Our second and third Band kids were encouraged to, but not required. Our third band kids, tina: Right. Chris McLellan: we didn't discuss region band music. tina: Right. Chris McLellan: But what we did do was like I said, every student had to do a solo, and we helped them through that process. We helped them pick their solo tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: we guided them in the direction they needed to go. We would have times where they could sign up and come and work with us for twenty minutes once a week, you know, just tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: one-on-one on their solo. Things tina: Right. Chris McLellan: like that. And That made that to me was what made our program successful is we were developing every single musician, and and at their level. Yeah. At their level. tina: Yes. And at their level too, like you're saying. At their level. It doesn't and on their level doesn't whatever it is, it does it can challenge them some, but it can't be so far out of their reach that Chris McLellan: Yes. Right. tina: they get discouraged and don't want to practice it. You know, and it's always okay like if they like the beginners, you have an easier one to a medium one, and they choose the easier one. I always try to encourage some of those kids to go here, but it still was like their idea, Chris McLellan: Right. Well, and that that was my goal was I want to develop independent musicians. I wanted them to be more tina: Mm. Chris McLellan: confident because the more confident they are, the better they're gonna play, the more contributions they're gonna make to the ensemble. tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: it wasn't always about, being the first chair kid and being the very best out of the region or this or that. tina: Right. Chris McLellan: It was just be confident, just play with confidence, you know. and so Yeah, the thirty minute practice myth, we kinda got away from that a little bit. But, if tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: that if that's what we tell kids is you've got to go home and practice for thirty minutes, well, it's not really gonna happen, You know, go ahead and go home and practice for thirty minutes may actually take make practice less likely to happen, especially with a tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: beginner. You know, and I think the alternative is like we talked about earlier, the seven to ten minute practice challenge. Give students a specific win. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: instead of a time requirement. You tina: Yep. Chris McLellan: so examples of that could be play measures twelve through sixteen correctly three times, at certain tempo clap this rhythm while counting out loud. play your B flat scale slowly without skipping a note. Record yourself and identify one improvement, you know? just things like that just to get them going and to get that fun, you know. tina: Yes. Yep. And yep. Going. But I and I I do think though, and I know I kinda old schooled it 'cause one of my spots that I had to have beginners when I was last teaching didn't really have the technology in the room. I had to have a whiteboard. And I made Like this side it said clarinets and I just numbered one, two, three, four, five. And over here it could be saxophones or whatever I was teaching. But each had a box because Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: my beginners were not always exactly at the same spot, But Chris McLellan: Right. tina: I would have my bullet points written and we would write it down, like just exactly what you just said, Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: and that way they had that plan. They went home. I said, okay, do number one, do number two, you know. But they would write it down, to kind of go with that. To make sure they're doing that, but also having pass-offs. you have a sheet in their binder that has pass-offs that have to be done by a certain time or whatever. And you're Chris McLellan: Right. Yeah. tina: putting that on there, that pass off of line nine, and or of holding a note eight counts and it being perfectly in tune, and sustaining it, and then an articulation thing, but having that written down so they go home, open their binder, and follow their plan. And it will help Chris McLellan: Right. tina: them make plans when they're older. Chris McLellan: It does. and we did the same thing. We would give them an objective sheet. And I would always tina: Mm. Chris McLellan: have not just, what they needed to play, but different ways of achieving this. For instance, tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: I would give them some different examples of different activities they can do to practice. so I practiced for ten minutes. Okay, that's an activity. I performed for my family. That's an activity that you can do. tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: I played with a friend. I made a video or an audio recording. tina: Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: I worked on the weekly music goals. I learned a new song. I play songs I have already learned. You know, tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: and so they would write those things down on their sheet. That tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: was an activity. What activity did you do when you practiced? And then I had a list of skills, with my beginners. It might be posture and and holding tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: position of their instrument, ombassure, note naming. Note and rhythm reading, breathing, tone production, fingering technique, tonguing, tina: Mm. Chris McLellan: sight reading, whatever. what what skill did you did you work on today? So they had an activity, how did you do it? A skill, what did you do? tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: and then strategies, I I played with a recording. I just did my fingers only. I did air and fingers. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: I sing on note names or self edge. I did small chunks of stuff. I clapped and counted. I slowed down. And so by doing those three things, you know, they have an example of of a different way to practice something, something tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: specific that they practiced. And then, you know, how did they do that? what did they do specifically as far as a strategy that they used? You know, and I'd have a lot of kids that would come back and and said they like to play for their parents or they like to record themselves or they would or FaceTime a friend and especially during COVID. You tina: Mm-hmm. Or FaceTime their grandparents. Or Yeah. Yeah, have a friend, yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: know, like when we were in COVID and I was teaching a double read class and we were all at home and nobody was at school, we still had twice a week, we had double reads class on Zoom. And it wasn't tina: Mm. Chris McLellan: anything super, like I one one session one of my students wanted to take us out into her pasture and meet her cows, tina: yeah. I've met a lot of pets. A lot. my gosh, she did not. my gosh. Chris McLellan: And and she took her bassoon out there to the pasture and she played for the cow. She did. And and it was hilarious. And, you know, I was just like, this is fun. You know, but it was just like tina: I love that more than you yeah. Chris McLellan: just getting them to play and just getting them to have fun with it. and so we would have class on online for a couple of times a week, and I would play with them and then they would play and we tina: Yeah. Wow. Chris McLellan: would just kind of talk about what we were doing and and those types of things. But it was interactive. And I think that's what they liked about it, you tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: and it was giving them options. And I think that's the biggest thing, especially now with with students, is letting them take a little bit of ownership for how they practiced, And so I love this practice log that I have that has examples of activities, what type of skills, what type of strategies to use, and yes, they keep track of what they did. You know, so it has five boxes on there. And all it asks for is a date, what time they practiced, what activity, what skill, and what strategy they used. And that's all they have to to write down, And it's really tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: kind of a a way for me to see how they're taking ownership of their own practice. And it also keeps them a little bit more honest, you know, because tina: It does. Chris McLellan: they're they're they're writing down things and they're they're doing things that tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: The way they want to do it. and I think for my sixth graders, that was a that was a big thing. and it has an adult thing at the end, but the the adults don't just sign it. You know, the adults tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: have some boxes they check. And the boxes say stuff like the practice strategies used seem to be working. My students shared what they are learning with me. It sounded like practice time was used sufficiently. And so they can check one of those boxes or all those boxes or whatever. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: And then they can write a little note down there and then they can sign it, And it's not so much how much time you have to have this much time, but what did you practice? You can write down how much time you tina: No. Yes. Chris McLellan: did it, but how, when, and why, you know, th those types of things and give them some ownership. And so I've got a a copy of this practice log that I'm gonna put in our shared folder on the website. And we'll talk about that at the end of the the podcast because there's a lot of resources in this week's shared folder for different practice logs, different handouts. We've got some handouts in there to hand out to parents, you know, tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: and things like that so that they understand how to support their student at home. If they haven't been a band parent, if they weren't banned, this is all new to them too. And I think we have to educate them on creating a safe space for their child, how to be an encourager, you know, all those types of things. if we want this to really work at home. So we've got that in there, and we'll talk about that some more here in a little bit too. But but I think all of those those ideas are extremely important. And and like I said, just the little seven to ten minute practice challenge, especially for getting started and getting in a routine. tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: is perfect, you know. And even with reluctant kids at tina: Right. Well it yeah. Chris McLellan: at the high school level, kids who you know don't practice, use this short seven to ten minute practice challenge with them, tina: Yeah, Chris McLellan: and and give them a short warm up thing to work on, a focus spot, two or four measures, one technical problem. repeat it. Play it correctly several times. And then a fun finish. Let them play something fun. Let them do some improvisation. Let them play a pep tune if they want to. something the student enjoys. and just start off with that. And if you can get them doing that, then you can get them doing more other things. You know. tina: Right. But that family involvement is just so encouraging for the student, but also for the parent. some parents are sometimes reluctant on like renting to own an instrument or the expense of this or whatever, but having them feel Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: a part of that. I've even seen some band programs will they'll have their beginner first concert and they'll also like have the kids like teach their parents just something little at home on their instrument and on that concert they all like line up around and the parents play and it's just fun but they can kind of feel what they're going through that's that's something else to get them involved if you wanted to do something like that but really having them involved with all the tips that you're saying but that practice record that you have that has parents checking boxes and that involvement Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: is great. But I've even had like older sisters or brothers do it. I've even asked Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: them like, your grandparents are there. They can fill this out for you. Ask them the questions. have them hear it. And it also builds your family relationships, but it also makes the student more prepared to play by themselves and confident to play by themselves. I think it's our job to like go down the row and have each kiddo Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: play a little bit and you start off by playing like a whole note. And then it can be two measures of whatever we're playing in the book or Chris McLellan: Right. tina: an articulation thing and it's also showing them what to do at home, but building Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: that confidence and shuffling for kids when they play. And even if they make a mistake, we still shuffle. They just need to keep going. We still shuffle because we're human, we're going to make mistakes. and that the parents Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: know, like if there's a wrong note being played on a song, they know. the thing that the parents and what we have to encourage parents to do is tell them, keep going, keep going, because the band's not going stop playing. not, ooh, that ooh, what was that? trying to get that positive, to build their confidence. And also Chris McLellan: yeah. tina: I've had kids say, Yeah, my my mom kept telling me to go. Then I just we I go went and then we all just started laughing, you know, because you know, Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: but it's good, it was so fun with my my mom and my sister, and that, we were laughing and they were saying, let's do it again. I want to hear it again, But getting that camaraderie at home, you can have that in your classroom, where we're all yeah, and that will help Chris McLellan: You can. And tina: With the practicing. Chris McLellan: and as a parent myself, having two boys go through band and being percussionists tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: like their dad, it's different when it's your own kids and they come home and you're the sons of a band director, you better be practicing, blah blah blah. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: and it's like and I never put this pressure on them that they had to be the best and all this kind of stuff. I just wanted them to tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: enjoy it. And they weren't in my band program. You know, and tina: Right. Chris McLellan: that was more of a matter of of convenience, of them not having to follow my schedule. tina: Right. Chris McLellan: but we have at our house, we have a a room separate from the house. And it's a It's now my office, but it's on the back side of our split garage. And that was where the Marimba was and the drum set is and the snare drum and and the guitars and all the things that they were working on and a piano, you know. You can even see some of that in my my video right tina: Mm. Yeah, it's right there, yeah. Chris McLellan: now. and this was our practice room, and the great thing about it for them was I can come out here and get them started and answer any questions, and then I can go back in the house. And they have this room to themselves, and they're not disturbing anybody. Because we can't hear them in the house, and they can do what they need to do. But I had to learn as a parent, phrases that encouraged them to practice and phrases that didn't. and so as a band director, I would start off with things like, Did you practice? How long did you practice? You need to go practice, And then I would learn that that wasn't encouraging, that wasn't working. So then I changed it into to Instead of like, did you practice? I would ask them, so what are you working on? what are you learning right now? tina: Mm-hmm. Yes. Chris McLellan: show me the part you're proud of. What sounded better to you today? What did you improve? Is there something tricky that you need help with? those types of things were so much more encouraging and better for them to hear than did you practice? Did you get your time in? You know. tina: Well and that's right, and that's also For us band directors to do too. All of those things that Chris McLellan: Right. tina: you were saying, don't say practice records are due, did you practice? Like you said, like you're saying, ask them. And I I would I would try to do this when it was the day that practice records were due, and I would say in like, the small setting of a beginner class, semi small, like, okay, what did you practice before you hand it to me? What'd you do? What did you work on? Yep. Chris McLellan: Right. tina: Next person, what was the most fun thing you worked on all week? what was your favorite? So I mm. Chris McLellan: And I started doing that at the beginning of my beginner classes daily. And the first question tina: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: I would ask my students was, So how did practice go last night? Any concerns, tina: Yep, that's a good one. Chris McLellan: anything any things that that you don't understand that I can help you with before we get into today's lesson? and that to them was kind of my check-in, but it wasn't tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: did you practice last night? But how did practice go? You know. tina: Also closing. Yes, they did. And then also closing Chris McLellan: An assumption that they did practice instead of questioning them. tina: with did anybody have any questions about what to work on tonight? or what to do? any questions, or do you want to add something to it? Because sometimes they would go, I figured out happy birthday. Can I do that? Add that to it. Yep. do that figure out how how to play happy birthday and so Chris McLellan: Absolutely. tina: it made them know that we they're involved in what their practicing is but also in what we're telling them and asking them to do which is very encouraging for them and another thing I'm talking about like beginner practice records is like one thing that I changed many years before I stopped stopped teaching full time was that if I made practice records due on Monday Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: the success of them turning in wasn't as great as if I changed to Tuesday. Tuesday was the day practice records were due. And the reason was because Monday was the reminder. it's like, okay, remind remind, your friend next to you, remind this, you know, whatever. When are practice records due? Tomorrow, Tuesday. so the success rate, it doesn't have to be Monday. Tuesday's a great day. And also in grading wise, if they turned it in on the day it was due, like they got a jolly rancher. And they got whatever grade it was, for however you're doing your grading system. But if they turned it in Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, they could still make a hundred because I'm not grading on how late they turned in. It's did they do some practicing? Chris McLellan: Right. tina: And so yeah, it it just was encouraging instead of man, I'm not turning this in now or man, I'm gonna get points taken off for being late. No, did you do, you know, did you do what we were asking you to do? Did you have a great time practicing? so Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: that was the main thing on all of that. So I still did. They just didn't get the piece of candy. But as soon as I started doing that candy on them turn it in on time, it went up. Like, classes were like 95% were turned in on time. Chris McLellan: Yeah. Well, and I, did something very similar. And and I'll be honest, as I got towards the end of my career, I stopped grading practice records. I stopped tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: messing with all that because parents were just signing them. They it was just more of a hassle than it was worth. And so I wanted to figure tina: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Chris McLellan: out how do how do I encourage practice and get tina: Hmm? Chris McLellan: the benefit of them practicing, but not have to worry about all this BS for lack of a better word, tina: Yes. You know, and a lot of yeah, lot of controversy with this. I always really, really believed in that beginning year. Yes, you need practice records. You need to develop everything we've been talking about. And and but when when they hit seventh and eighth grade, I would just tell the parents, there's not something you're gonna have to sign, but we are gonna do kind of like a practice journal. Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: that we kind of keep up with and also with the pass offs and how the pass offs are gonna be longer length and what they're gonna be dealing with and everything that we're gonna know and they're gonna know as a student and as students around who's practicing and who's not, because of the goals we're setting for them on their different pass offs on scales and arpeggios and parts of music and like you're saying, like parts of a solo are all region. So Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: there wasn't the whole thing of who's just signing and or lying or there was none of that conflict anymore and they still Chris McLellan: Right. Right. tina: were doing it but people would say well you have to have that you know and that that it it can be true but it just saved time and it made it more positive Chris McLellan: Well, I think there's I think there's ways to approach that. And I agree. They have to d develop those skills that first year. They have to understand tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: that practice is required. It is something that you have to do if you want to improve. Just like tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: going to practice for your sports or go into gymnastics practice or whatever. This is tina: Yes. Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: the same thing. And the way I approached it, especially in my last four or five years when I was teaching double reads. I we would we used to do, kind of the traditional every Friday we would have a test, either pass tina: Right. Chris McLellan: off something or a chair test or whatever, an assessment of of where the kids were. Don't tina: Right. Chris McLellan: go down the row, play this line, you know, I'm gonna give you a grade, blah, blah, blah. Well, I got away from that and what I started tina: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: doing was is on on Monday, they would get an objective sheet for the week. this is what we're gonna be working on. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: These are the possible lines that you're gonna have to play for an assessment. but I would never narrow it down until Friday as to what their line was. And then on Fridays, it was no longer assessment day, it was another teaching day. And on Fridays, what what we would do is we would kind of review everything from the week, and then I would give them a line, a choice at the end of the week. So Over the weekend, you're gonna go home and you're gonna video yourself and you're gonna submit that video by Monday morning at 8 a.m. And you have a choice of one of these three lines. You can play whichever one you wanted, And they were basically the same difficulty level, They just had a choice. So they had a little bit of ownership in it. The great thing about it was that everybody took their horn home over the weekend. There was nobody tina: Right. Chris McLellan: leaving their horn in the band hall because they had already tested on Friday. There's nothing they need to work on over the weekend. tina: Mm-hmm. Yep. Chris McLellan: So now you have an assignment over the weekend. You have to video yourself and you tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: have to submit it by 8 a.m on Monday. And then on Monday I would remind them that their practice log, which is what I just discussed, was more of you know me finding out how they're practicing, but not how tina: Okay. Chris McLellan: much time was I would remind them that's due on Tuesday. I would grade their tests on Monday. And I had a little half page rubric that I would use to grade each one. And on Tuesday, when they handed me their practice log, I would hand them their their rubric, their their sheet with all my feedback and their something on there, tina: Right. Something on there, yeah. Chris McLellan: That was I'm like I was like, why didn't I do this my whole career? You know, well, number one, we didn't have the capability to video our kids at home on our whole career and all that stuff, you tina: Right. Right. Yeah. No. Chris McLellan: know. But once that started happening, It was amazing. And the tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: funny thing about it was the the students were they would think they're cheating. and and it would be like halfway through half no, but it would be like halfway through the school year and tina: And yeah, I know what you're gonna Multiple tries. We don't need to know you you recorded it ten times. No. Yeah. Chris McLellan: and inevitably a kid would come up to me and say, Mr. McClellan, do you know that everybody when we submit these, like we've probably recorded twenty-five times before we found one? And I'm like, tina: Right. And we're like, yes. Chris McLellan: Okay. And they think it you know, they're like thinking it's some bad thing and I'm like, Good, and I never would tell you know, tina: No. No. Chris McLellan: Good, you're practicing, you know. They just thought that they were cheating. And I'm like, You can think that all day long. I don't care. You could play it a thousand times. That's great. Get your best one tina: Right, right, right, care, right. Get your best one in there, yeah. And you know. Chris McLellan: in there, you know. tina: Also, you can do that with marching fundamentals. Like they can video themselves doing certain marching things or even saying the count structure for part one. that's a pass off. It makes them a and Chris McLellan: Yeah. That's a pass off. tina: it makes them, accountable. anything that you Chris McLellan: Right. tina: can do in concert playing, you can do in marching season. So keep that in mind too, with with videos Chris McLellan: You can. Yeah. tina: and that. something fun also that I would do with some of the middle school kids is I would assign something, for example, clarinets, when You're teaching them how to cross the break, and I never Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: really even said cross the break until later or that it was hard or whatever. It would be G A B C for us. You know, I'd say, okay, Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: whoever can do G A B when I first teach it, and we're not even going to see G-A-B. This is Fridays. Fridays, I would do this a lot. If Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: you can do that twice without squeaking in one breath, you know. or whatever I the plan was, on Monday I'll take volunteers and you get candy or you get some kind of reward Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: that you're doing. And so many kids would have their hands up. And then I would say, okay, if you didn't do it today, I'll take more hands tomorrow. And then the next week it might be adding, okay, it's Friday. On Monday it's G A B C. but Chris McLellan: Right. tina: each instrument could have something like that. You know, but it Chris McLellan: Sure, absolutely. tina: encouraged them to go home over the weekend. To be able to come in and go, I got it, I got it, I can do this. And and it, like you said, the same thing you're doing. I would do it with the older kids with like scales are all region. do you have that depend on, you know, if it's your sub non, do you have B flat concert scale memorized? Whoever has that and will do that, you're gonna get candy or whatever Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: reward it is, and so it was a lot of that, and they would volunteer, but more instruments were going home because there was a goal to go home and try to reach. over the weekend. So any trips Chris McLellan: Right. tina: that tricks that you can think of or encourage them to be able to practice over the weekend and it works that is amazing and just keep doing it. Chris McLellan: That's a ma that's a tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: keep doing it. Yeah. And I had a few people that would question that method. it's like, well, depending on the recording, device tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: or how good the recording is, how you can't really tell anything about tone or this or that. I'm like, no, you can't really. But I could tell that during the week. And on Friday, I still went down the row and had every kid play, play what line you think you're gonna test on. Let me hear it. tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: So I'm still assessing them throughout the week. That recording is just to see if they've mastered, the notes and the rhythms and the timing and they had to have it in the camera where they were tapping their foot, the metronome had to be on. All of those things had to be tina: Yes, all of that. Chris McLellan: going, you know, and so yeah, tone quality may not be great on a recording, but I already know what their tone quality is because I'm listening to them individually throughout the week. tina: You already know it. Yes. Yes. Chris McLellan: and so that that's That's kind of just the way I I approach things and it really worked well for me. tina: Mm. Yes. Chris McLellan: But the the other side of this whole thing, and and we've got, like I said a few minutes ago, I've got a sheet in our our shared folder that's basically a a handout to give to to beginning band parents, right? and so it's a support system. and it basically talks about what the parents' role is in in their child's musical development. and Tina, I know you've got some thoughts on this. why don't you kind of talk us through that support system as we've got it laid out. tina: You know that many parents don't play an instrument, never been in band. And yeah, you do have some that have, or it's been so many years ago or whatever, but the Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: the parents don't need to be able to teach music. And for them to know, and even in like the handout you're saying, but they can provide different things. They can provide the certain time that's best for the family, the certain space that's best. You can really just encourage them, you know, and tell the parents can tell them, look, I know the door's shut and you're maybe over here, but you have a trumpet player, a brass player, that's kind of loud, you know, tell the parents, you know, have them aim the bell like towards a different wall or whatever, you know, to encourage them to be able to play and do that and accountability Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: for it. Have the parent be an audience, ask them, hey, come play that for me. Or hey, they can knock on the door and say, Can I, can I play? Instead of the parents even saying, Did you practice? You know, them to ask, Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: What just play? What was that in there? Or go outside. I've heard kids' parents, yes. Chris McLellan: or it's like go outside. I've had that too. Yeah, yeah. tina: Yeah, but also sometimes there's like newborn babies in the house. So, you know, Chris McLellan: There is. tina: it has to be arranged when that is. And it could be that you're in the garage facing out or that you're in the backyard sometimes playing for the birds and squirrels. I've heard that before. My mom told me Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. tina: to go play for the birds and squirrels. And I said, Did you? Yes, I did, but that kind of stuff. But you know, but the parents to be supportive in that and talk about all of that and Have the parents with some key questions to be able to ask the students, because it's it's the parents' job not to like say that was wrong or that didn't sound good or point out bad things. That's not it. It's it's just to create at home a safe environment that's encouraging and that the whole family knows the timing and what's going on and to support each other. Chris McLellan: it's it and it's safe to make mistakes. You know, I think that's tina: Yes, it is. Chris McLellan: the biggest thing that as parents we can do is provide an atmosphere where it is safe to make mistakes. And we're not tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: judging them on on the mistakes that they're making, tina: Right. Chris McLellan: but we're just encouraging them. and the handout tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: that we have, basically that's the that's the the title of it is creating a practice environment where s mistakes are safe. tina: First yes. Chris McLellan: And there's basically six blocks on here that kind of teach the parents number one why the practice environment matters. Number tina: Mm-hmm. Yep. Chris McLellan: two, how to create a comfortable physical space for the student, with good lighting, a music stand, a metronome, whatever, comfortable chair, some privacy, which is always important. number three, tina: Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: create an emotionally safe environment, know. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: Encourage, don't embarrass, keep it positive. Resist tina: Mm. Chris McLellan: the urge to constantly correct. and that was something that I had to work on as a band director with my own children tina: Right. Chris McLellan: was to not feel like I have to always correct every tina: Right. Chris McLellan: but let them make those mistakes and let them figure out those mistakes. tina: Right. And mine as a band parent was, okay, I've heard Land of a Thousand Dances, too many times. you need to Chris McLellan: Right. tina: be working on region or whatever. and they Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: would laugh. They would even say, Well, mom, I did it to find out if you would count it, count how many times I just played that, or if you'd come knock Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: on my door and tell me whatever. And I'm like, No, it's your practice time. But I yes, I can hear that you just played it, and I will tell you six times, And it was funny. Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: I said, but you might think it's funny, but I'm going, you just got all the exercise on your ombudsure, your lips, your tongueing, all of that. So your endurance is through the roof playing it six times, So I tried to turn it around into something positive. Yeah. But, you Chris McLellan: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Try to turn it around. Yeah. tina: know, it is what it is. Chris McLellan: Well, and to finish out what's on this this list this handout for the parents, tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris McLellan: you know, it it talks a little bit about what happens when an instrument becomes a source of conflict. and so how to kind of make sure that that's not happening. And it has a little practice support checklist, how you can help them before, during and after practice. and mainly it's just providing the atmosphere and and the and the resources and the equipment that they need to be successful. and just being that encourager, And like I said, that was hard for me just as a as a musician, as a band director with my own sons. but I learned how to how to navigate that, and And so i it's something that we all have to to work at and even if we're parents that aren't musicians, a lot of times we we still hear things and we is that was that correct? instead of maybe rephrasing to did you hear what happened there? do you need to change that or I I don't know for sure. So you tell me, So that resource will be in our folder as well. and so I I think just just to re reiterate that, creating that practice environment at home where mistakes are safe, and it does, absolutely. tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. But also that goes to your classroom too. That mistakes are safe. And like like we've been saying, shuffle for kids. Make sure they finish whatever there's playing in front of everyone and recover, just like if the whole group was playing along. Shuffle for them. Give them encouraging words of what they did well. and also some that they can work on too. So you gotta have that. in in the environment the whole entire time, so they do play by themselves and have that confidence. Chris McLellan: Absolutely. and so just to kind of sum up all of this kind of stuff we've been talking, the teacher plus the parent plus the student equals the practice team, right? tina: Mm-hmm. Yes. It does, yes. Chris McLellan: And so the teacher provides clear goals, modeling, practice strategies, feedback, encouragement. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: The parent is going to provide environment, structure, encouragement, accountability, and the student has to provide the effort. They have to do the repetition. They have to have some ownership in what they're doing. And they have to learn how to and be able to reflect on what they're what they're tina: Mm-hmm. Yep. Chris McLellan: doing and be honest with themselves on on how they're doing. You know, tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: and the shared goal from all of that is to create independence, not dependence. You know, and that's what we're really trying to do. tina: Right. And so many things yeah. Nadays are very dependent. The kids are, on technology dependent on the the parents doing things or other people doing things instead of letting them them be creative and independent on what they're doing because it's their solo time that they're practicing. Give them that gift of being a soloist and following what we're trying to ask them to do, but being creative with it. and like you said, like they found the girl found the clarinet solo from a mu movie. give those Chris McLellan: mm-hmm. tina: opportunities for that to be there, which Chris McLellan: Right. tina: develops a creative independence. Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: It does, it does, I think that's the biggest thing that we can help them develop is the ownership and the independence and the the security to be able to practice and make mistakes but get better, And it's not about how much time necessarily that you spend practicing, but it's the quality of of time that you're practicing. And that's that's something that I had to learn the hard way too. 'cause in tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: college, if we were gonna make an A in our private lesson for our major you have to practice at least twenty one hours a week. it's like, okay. But again, that was like time. It wasn't structured for me. I I needed to know how to use that time effectively. And so I kinda want to talk about this. This is kind of the final thing. Is tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: this six-part home practice formula? And it's what we call the CLEAR model, with CLEAR being an acronym, C-L-E-A-R. And C means choose one goal, make it specific. L is limit the session, make it manageable. Because we all know we get to a point where we're making more We're we're backtracking more than we're making progress because our focus level is gone, whatever. You get frustrated or you get tired. Yeah. Just all those things. tina: Right. Right. and and you get frustrated or whatever. And it's like, okay, stop. Yes. Yeah. And some of them like your face is getting tired. You're not making great sounds. All of that. So you know, that's that's Chris McLellan: All of that. tina: a stopping point. It's like that's okay. You can limit it. Yeah, there's nothing Chris McLellan: Limit it, you know, and tina: wrong with that. Chris McLellan: and for me, that was about forty five minutes in college, I would hit that wall and I I would take a fifteen minute break. And I would come back and do another forty five minutes and take a fifteen minute break, or whatever. So whatever it is, but that's L, limit the session. E is established safety. Mistakes are expected. If all we practice is the things that we can do well, we're not getting tina: Mm mm. Chris McLellan: better. tina: No. Chris McLellan: We have to make mistakes to get better. And so that has to be established and that's a safe a safe thing. A is add something enjoyable, make it feel like tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: music. not just attudes and scales and blah blah blah, but give them some ownership, let them have something in there that they enjoy playing as well. R is recognize progress, celebrate improvement. because if we're not celebrating even the smallest of improvements, they're not going to continue to practice. You know? So just kind of re-re restating that. C tina: And I yeah, and like re right. Chris McLellan: is choose a goal. L is limit the session. E is establish safety. A is add something enjoyable. And R is recognize progress. And then repeat. tina: Yeah. Well, I was gonna say it was like recognizing progress. I loved when kids would show up in the morning and they'd say, Ms. Barr, I taught myself how to do this. my gosh, or Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: I can now play that or I can articulate that at 120 now. And I'd say, do it, And even if they're just playing for you standing up for like 10 seconds of whatever it is, and we Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: celebrate that, but that they recognize that process progress at home. And then they brought it to me. And then I would go Chris McLellan: They do. Yeah. tina: say, go tell the go go play for the other director, or go play for a sixth grader, because in the mornings Chris McLellan: Right. Yeah. tina: there was were a certain amount of time where they could have free practice, And Chris McLellan: yeah. tina: it it was awesome. And like they were so excited to show me and and show everyone else, but that is huge at the end. Do recognize, and also sometimes your progress that you recognize may be disappointing to you that you thought you should get farther. But there still was some progress, you know, and like Chris McLellan: Well and and that's the point of like having your personal practice log. And this was something tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: I love to do with high school students. and it's another resource that's gonna be in our shared folder. but it's just a an individual journal page, and and it and it's tina: I yeah, I love that journal page. It's great. Chris McLellan: for students to just write down their own feelings about, tina: Uh-huh. Chris McLellan: they can keep track of what they practiced, what tempos they practiced, what frustrations they had. what they don't understand, tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: what the questions they want to ask their teacher, what went well, what they enjoyed. Because if you don't reflect I mean, as humans, we're always caught up on the things that went poorly, right? I mean, you look at the news tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: every night, there's nothing on there that's positive. It's always here's the things that happened bad in the world today. And tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Chris McLellan: we're wired for that. And when we make mistakes, we dwell on our mistakes. So if we tina: Right. Chris McLellan: don't write down and record the things that we're proud of and that we did well, then that tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: can that can also deter your practice if all you're thinking tina: Yeah. Yep. Chris McLellan: about is the things that you're messing up on. tina: And you know, when you hit about April and I'm back to beginners again, I had a s sheet that was very similar to what you have in our in our folder. But I would have them at the front of the room and I started going, hey, would anyone like this? this is for you. and the kids that Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: would raise their hand, but I would give it to everybody at first. And then I would like, do you want another copy or whatever? Or they're up here, and it was like the reflection page or whatever, those of you that and so many kids would pick them up. and it wasn't Chris McLellan: yeah. tina: something I was grading, it wasn't something and I'd say, Chris McLellan: No. tina: Hey, if you want to share this with me. And you know, then with the advanced kids, I would start doing it when it got closer to like all region or all district t auditions or before they're gonna play their solo. for a judge or whatever. And so they would I'd hand them out and I'd say if you want to share them with me or you want to whatever, you know, but this is more for you, to reflect. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: And if you want another copy, they're up here. But so many kids loved doing that. And it also, and having it in high school to do it and be part of what you're doing, it it just really makes it be personal to them. It's theirs. It's ownership. So that's wonderful. Chris McLellan: It is. And I I never same thing, I never it wasn't something I needed them to share with me. It was just for their own personal tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: growth, reflection, which I'm huge on reflection, period. And so that's tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris McLellan: something I wanted to teach to my students. But you know, when they would come and have their weekly session with me, more times than not, tina: Mm. Chris McLellan: they would share with me some other journal pages. tina: Mm-hmm, yes. Chris McLellan: I would ask them, so how did your week go? Is there are are there issues that you want to work on today, something specific, or are you ready to move on in the music? and they tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: would say, Well, let me look back on Wednesday, I had a a struggle with this, and I would always ask them, Okay, great, what did you do well on Wednesday? And they would tell me and I'd say, Okay, great. So play tina: Yes, yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: what you did well for me. I want to hear that. tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: And then okay, now let's go back and let's tackle this thing that you were struggling with. and by having them play something that they felt good about for me first, allowed them to go back and play that part that they struggled with, and not be afraid to show me, So I think it's all about the messaging. It's all it's about how we we approach it. but I think that, we've talked about a lot of stuff on this episode with practice, and I think if you have students that are struggling that don't like to practice, you're struggling to get them to practice, try some of these things. Because they worked for us and I tina: Yeah, try them. Yeah. Chris McLellan: mean they worked really well for us. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: And I really think it's it's something that is worth investing your time in. And even tina: Mm-hmm. It is. Chris McLellan: if you have a private lesson program, that tina: no. Chris McLellan: that's beside the point, we still as directors need to be involved in what they're learning at that individual level and giving them the opportunities to share that with us, you know. tina: Yep. Right. And you know, also using them in sectionals. if you have specific instrument sectionals or if you're doing like woodwinds on one day and brass Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: and percussion on a different day or whatever, but the same thing, you know, like the last 10 minutes can be is there's a place that y'all would like to work on, what what is giving you trouble? Chris McLellan: Right. tina: Same concept there, and they can raise Chris McLellan: Absolutely. tina: their hand and say, Well, I need, can we look at the last eight measures of so and so? And and we're like, Okay, let's start with that one. But if It also gives them a little ownership of sectionals and what they're doing in that. And someone else Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: may raise their hand about something else, but it just really encourages them and also that you add in there, these are great practice spots. when you go Chris McLellan: Right. tina: home, these places and how we just did it, this is a good example of what to do at home to help you, Because did you get better in the last couple of minutes doing that? everybody raised their hand and they do, you know. So use those opportunities, Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: to say this. could be at home and it could, make it a game where each time you're trying to get a little faster or, your articulation a little cleaner or whatever it is. But yep. But kind of Chris McLellan: Right. tina: enclosing in what we're doing, I think the real thing is the goal isn't to make students practice because we're forcing them to. The goal is to help them experience enough success that they want to pick up the instrument again tomorrow. You know, Chris McLellan: Right. tina: and that tomorrow could be in class. That tomorrow could be walking into the band hall and saying, Miss Pa, I want to play this for you. Or walking in and saying, Miss Pa, I still don't I still can't do this. I need help. You know, so they can reach out. know, it is Yes, it could be Saturday. Chris McLellan: Or that tomorrow could be Saturday. Or it could be Sunday at church they're playing at church. Whatever it is, I mean that's that's the ultimate goal. It's tomorrow, tina: Yeah. It is. It's tomorrow. It is. Chris McLellan: so let me kind of give some information here. We've talked about some items that are in the shared folder. if you go to McClellan Bandconsulting dot com. And you hover over the unconducted curriculum, you're gonna see the podcast page pop up. If you'll click on that and scroll down to the bottom, there's a shared folder. And in that shared folder this week, we've got a couple of different versions of practice logs. One that's more appropriate for the beginner, one that's more appropriate for middle school, high school students. we've got a weekly objective sheet that I use with my students. That you can you can look at and see how that worked and these are PDFs, but they're they're very generic. we've got a a practice encouragement sheet in there, the the parent one that mistakes are safe. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: We've got the practice journal, which is just the personal page for the students, that works really well at the high school level and and middle school level as well. And then we've got a a sheet for Band directors too, that's you know, why students don't practice. And it's kind of a summary of all this stuff that we've talked about today, kind of in a one-page bullet point reference page, just to kind of see, some of our ideas on paper and not having to, you know, review this podcast over and over if you're interested in those ideas. So there's six different resources in the folder this week. So we hope that you'll check those out and they're free to download and do with what you would like. but other than that, you know, my final thing I'd I'd kind of like to say is, practice shouldn't feel like punishment. It shouldn't even feel like homework. it's practices and we all know this is how we grow. And I think we have to figure out ways for the students to feel that way about it and not to feel like it's another thing they have to do for homework or that they're have to practice because they're behind. You know, we've all heard that with tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: why do why does my kid need to take private lessons? Is it because they're not any good? Is it because they're behind? No, it's not. Same tina: No, no, no. Chris McLellan: thing with practice. and so that's kind of the point of this is is to learn how to encourage practice and let it be more owned by the student and not forced by the director. Tina, you got any tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: Final thoughts. tina: Yeah, just that it's about growth. It's about this the student, like you said, wanting to play their instrument, enjoying to play their instrument at home and to just grow and get better and enjoy it. It's an enjoyment to play an instrument. So that's my main goal, that they're enjoying it at home and at school. also improving, but they go home Chris McLellan: Yes. tina: and they want to practice and they want to do that. And like you said, it's not really the word practice. It's I'm going to Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: play at home. I'm going to perform at home. I'm going Chris McLellan: Right. tina: to get better at home. So that's the main thing. They're going home to play. Chris McLellan: Well, and it may be as simple as us changing our language and stop saying go home and practice, but go home and perform. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it is. Have fun. Perform. Play your instrument. 'Cause tina: Yes. Yes. Go home and perform. No, it's true. Perform. You know? But it is. It's it's yeah. exactly right. Chris McLellan: that's that that brings me back to like I talked about earlier with going home and I looked forward to getting home and getting on my drum set and just jamming out for a while. tina: Yes. Yep. Chris McLellan: that was different from what I did at school. I mean I gather that. I wasn't going home and practicing Marimba or snare drum or whatever. But it built that that confidence, it built that that tina: Right. You had fun. Yeah. Chris McLellan: yeah, that enjoyment, and it built that routine, and I think that's important. tina: I agree. Chris McLellan: All right. Well, thank you guys for listening. I think that's all we've got f for today. Next week's episode, we're going to be featuring Jared Dodd with some middle school resources. Tina, tell us a little bit about Jared. I know you've invited him on the program. tina: Well, Jared and I taught a year together in Prosper and we had many, many philosophies the same, and I really enjoyed his love for teaching and his love for just having kids enjoy what they were doing, but really pushing them to their fullest extent and having really high expectations. And I just wanted him to come on here and kind of just share, some of his procedures and what he does. with his band kids to get them to reach their full potential. Chris McLellan: Awesome. So we're looking forward to that episode that will come out next week with Jared Dodd. And what middle school is he at in Prosper? tina: He's at rushing middle school and prosper. Yep. Chris McLellan: Rushing, rushing middle school. Awesome. All right. So we're looking forward to that. So we will see you guys next time. tina: Bye bye.