Latest / Pastor Plek's Podcast / I Didn't Have to Get High, a Story of Redemption

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I Didn't Have to Get High, a Story of Redemption · Pastor Plek's Podcast

0:05
SPEAKER_01: And welcome back to Pastor Plex Podcast.
0:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Pastor Plex, and joining me today is none other than Ethan Hogan.
0:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so excited to hear your story.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: And Ethan, let's just start off with like how'd you first start coming to Breakaway Church?
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Breakaway Church.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh I got invited, I guess it was about three months ago by a member here and started uh started attending.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: It was Wells Branch.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Back in the day.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, community church.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: And now it's Breakaway Church.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: Oh, what did you notice when you were at Wells Branch?
0:37
SPEAKER_01: Which first what were your first thoughts being back at the old spot?
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, everyone was just super warm and welcoming.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I loved some of the attention like some of the guys gave me.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've always had a hard time making friends with guys.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Why do you think that is?
0:56
SPEAKER_01: Um dudes are just intimidated by the rugged good looks and and muscular physique.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh no, it it's me, like just through my life and some of the things that I've experienced.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh it's hard for me to like let down that guard.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, let's talk about what we got.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about how did you grow up?
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, what was your background?
1:19
SPEAKER_00: So I came from a very loving family.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: Um grew up in church, going to church, everything, but probably by the age of like 14, 15, uh that influence just wasn't there.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: Um was it just because you stopped going?
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Or did your parents stop going?
1:38
SPEAKER_00: What what was the um um I didn't really have there wasn't really strong spiritual leadership in the house?
1:44
SPEAKER_00: It was kind of just a thing that I saw that we did on Sunday, Sundays and did you ever talk about church and stuff at I mean church, God at home?
1:54
SPEAKER_01: No.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: Did you ever pray at home?
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Over dinner.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, but no conversations like, hey, here's what God's doing in my life right now.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nothing, nothing intimate like that.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: And um, okay, so then at 15, what what dire like what direction did you start going?
2:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, I just started gravitating towards not necessarily the wrong people, but more the secular lifestyle.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: Give me what does that mean?
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, is this the party?
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Is this the drugs?
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Is this the alcohol?
2:26
SPEAKER_01: What is that?
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um definitely going to parties in high school.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: Um I was what kind of context did you grow up in?
2:34
SPEAKER_01: Like suburban context?
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: So typical suburban context, what city?
2:39
SPEAKER_01: What round was um Cartersville, Georgia.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so around the Atlanta area.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: So you're in the Atlanta area, you you're going to, you're doing, you're not like downtown in the hood.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: You're in suburbia and you're going to normal parties, probably people are drinking, maybe smoke a little pot.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: Was that about the hardest as it got, or did you get crazier than that?
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, I one of my friends' dads uh had cancer, and so there was a little bit of experimentation with pain pills.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
3:07
SPEAKER_00: For just briefly.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: You're like, hey, here's my dad's pants cancer pills.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: Right.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: All right.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: And so, and and what was the feeling that you got from that?
3:18
SPEAKER_01: Like you it was like euphoric, like, I don't care.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: What was the feeling?
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just uh total relief, total shutdown of the mind where you don't mean like naturally, I just have a racing mind that's going 24-7.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: Talking about the racing mind and maybe racing thoughts a little bit, is it like you've got a bunch of different thoughts kind of conflicting, or like is there just a bunch of noise in your head?
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just uh 24-7 just thoughts coming at you.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, how do you go to sleep?
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh sometimes it's very hard.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: No.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: Um luckily today I don't have as much of the back then, like back then, you're at 15 racing thoughts, it's insane.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh you didn't need coke, you just you were naturally coked up with all the crazy thoughts.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: So your parents, do they know that you're partying and and doing all that?
4:15
SPEAKER_00: Um yes.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, probably not to the extent that I was.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: I know uh my dad eavesdropped on a phone call that I had with one of my friends and um heard that I was engaging in certain behaviors and and uh like drugs, sex, which one?
4:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: Both.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh probably probably not the sex, but definitely the drugs.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, they sent me to a like crisis center for teens when I was 17.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: Where was this at?
4:47
SPEAKER_00: It was in North Carolina.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, I got to hike the Appalachian for two months.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's kind of awesome.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean probably not cheap if you're doing that kind of awesome stuff.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it wasn't very cheap.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, your dad sends you to rehab for two months in the Appalachian in North Carolina.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: You're thinking, I'm good.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: So when I've heard that people have gone to rehab, there's two results.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: One, they're clean, they never go back.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: Two, they meet friends there, and then they become more of a drug addict than they ever were before because the the bond was like cool, and you kept keep up with them after you get out.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Is the second one?
5:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it but I didn't really hang out with any of the kids there after rehab, but there was definitely like a judgment call that I made where I was like, I am not half as bad as some of these kids.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: And yeah.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: So you go back and you're like, I'm not, I didn't need to be there that much.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, do you think that your dad pulled the trigger on that rehab too soon and that you needed to get a little bit darker before you went cleaner?
5:49
SPEAKER_00: Or I have spoken with my parents and they do regret uh sending me to that place.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: Um for a couple reasons, but yeah, maybe it was too early.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: Um at that time I had experimented with like smoking pot and drinking, but it was very it wasn't very frequently.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, so when when I've talked to them since then, they have expressed that, you know, maybe we did jump the gun a little bit.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: Um when I had when I went, I had no idea that my father was also like into some of those same behaviors when he was a teenager and through college.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: So he never shared that with you, never shared that with me.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: So the whole time I was there, I kind of thought that I was just like this black sheep, that no one was like me.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: And then as I was there, uh my counselor actually told me, No, like your your dad engaged in the house.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they the counselors would talk with the parents and stuff like that.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: So when you come home clean, I guess.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh there's like, I don't know if you ever heard this Bible story of like there's um a demon in the house and it gets swept clean and and exercised or whatever, but then that that demon gets seven other stronger demons and comes back and takes over the house.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: Was that sort of what happened?
7:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, my parents would drug test me and marijuana stays in your system for ever.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: And so I just switched to doing drugs that would not show up.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so so they went for the I am going to hold you accountable route, not get to know your heart route.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, and and again, I mean, what parent knows what to do in that situation?
7:35
SPEAKER_01: I guess you're you're trying to do all the best you can.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: All right, so how old are you at that point?
7:40
SPEAKER_01: 17.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: 17, you're home, your final year of high school or so, or a couple years ago.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was well, I got taken out halfway through my senior year of high school, and so I came back, I was still able to graduate, um, switched switch schools.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: I was going to a Daresville high school at the time, and I switched back to Woodland.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: Um okay, so you you graduate high school and then college, what what'd you do next?
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Um a bunch of nothing really partied for the next year or two.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, I ended up um going through like a trade school, trade college, and I got my EMT certification.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that's when things started to change for me.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Um I uh I remember in the class um giving each other IVs, and I remember uh my teacher saying that this is just another route of medication, it's the safest and it's the cleanest route.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: And I remember this.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: Um and it and it led me into IV drug use.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: Like when I think IV drug use, the only thing I think of is heroin.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: So heroin.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: We're going heroin.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: All right.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Like when I think heroin, I think it's a short trip to being homeless.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, for me, it took um probably about four or five years.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: So, like, how do you like and this is the part like give me the experience that heroin gives you?
9:13
SPEAKER_01: It's like just a like you're you're just half asleep, you're what is it?
9:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, again, it's just that complete quietness of the mind.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: There is euphoric and like you know, you do feel good, but mainly it just shuts my mind off from these thoughts that I was constantly having of being a failure, not being good enough, like wondering how am I gonna make it in this world?
9:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, heroin for me just stopped all that.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: That distracts.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: So so then what's the I don't know if there's a side effect of heroin.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's the right word.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, what is heroin?
9:51
SPEAKER_01: Does heroin cause you just I need more heroin?
9:53
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna go every dollar I have is going to go to kind of sustain that.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had never experienced like anything of a drug withdrawal until I started using Ivy heroin.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: And and so it just hit me like a freight train.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, I mean, I would steal from my grandparents, I'd steal from you, uh any anyone I was around.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: Um didn't matter.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: Like if I get money, I can get more heroin.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: That was that was the primary focus.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: And I know this seems like a weird question, but we're like, there's no heroin stores.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, how it's just if but if you want it, you just go like, hey, I'm looking for heroin.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean, how do you find it's like at the party, you're like, you know, anybody's got some heroin?
10:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, well, how does that come up?
10:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: Um it was I mean, I knew a guy through rehab.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's I thought.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: All right, there you go.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: Usually that's re rehab's the best place to meet drug addicts.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you meet him at rehab, you go, yo, listen, I just I'm an EMT.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Where would, if one were to get heroin, where would you get it is that kind of like how you did it?
10:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, and he took me to a spot in Atlanta that you can uh it's an open air drug market.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: And so 24 hours a day, seven days a week, you can go score.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: Not know I never had a drug dealer's number, never had to call them.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: I just show up.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: So how and again, I this is me being just n knowing nothing.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: How do you know what you're injecting yourself with is what it is?
11:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you don't.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I I definitely got into fentanyl later on.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so and can you explain fentanyl to me?
11:28
SPEAKER_01: Because I mean I've I've heard it before I heard how bad it is.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, if you smell it, you'll like might die.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: But like, how do you get fentanyl in that form in Ivy?
11:38
SPEAKER_01: Is it is it because I always thought it was like a powder or it can be formed in anything.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, they'll they'll mix it with heroin, um, or you can just that it'll just be synthetic fentanyl that you're buying.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: When you say synthetic fentanyl, this again, I'm gonna reveal my ignorance.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: That sounds like there's an organic fentanyl.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh like, oh, hey, come to my come to my garden of fentanyl.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: There's stuff like that you would get at a hospital that would be prescribed to you, and then there's like the street stuff that, yeah, it's coming from China or Mexico, and it's like and they are trying, they are trying to kill you from China and Mexico.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you're in the open-air drug market as one does.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: Is that like just in the middle of Atlanta?
12:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's at a space called the Bluff.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: Huh.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's what they call it.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: And is it like where the police are like, bah.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: Pretty much.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I had a couple run-ins with the police, and yeah, they weren't really concerned with saving anyone or stopping me from using.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: They would find my needles and uh sometimes drugs, and just yeah, turn the other.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess, or at some point, like the the police department was like, hey, I guess city council is not gonna mess with this.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna prosecute us, so just don't even worry about it.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: So you're in, you you spend four years roughly just getting yourself addicted, and then you're addicted.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Then what happens?
13:01
SPEAKER_01: And where are you living at this time?
13:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was staying with a friend in Cartersville um that kind of just let me do whatever I want.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: He was a very sick alcoholic as well.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: And so did he have a job?
13:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, he did not.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: He had like uh inheritance from his family, and so that was also one of the reasons it took me so long to hit the streets was uh I was stealing from him three or four hundred dollars a day um to support my habit.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Did you ever OD?
13:37
SPEAKER_00: Um several times.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: And what is that like?
13:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, so the first time um I had left rehab, um, this was I guess 2014.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: Um I left rehab and I went and picked up and scored, and uh the last thing I remember was kind of mixing the drugs up to inject, and then I woke up like six days later, and all I remember is black.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Like it was just black.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: Any any other near-death experience type things where like you experienced like heaven, hell, or anything like that?
14:18
SPEAKER_00: Nothing that I can recall.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, yeah.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: For me, it like yeah, I've overdosed probably four or five times, and yeah, it's just a fade to black, and then you wait to do it.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Did you was it narcane or do you know what it they used to do?
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: I've been hit with narcan several times.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: All right.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: So you're you're, I guess, working somewhere or doing, or just you're just going from uh how yeah, how do you live?
14:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there was stealing stealing is a primary way.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, there weren't any jobs in my active addiction.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: There would be no way that I would ever be able to manage it.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, so stealing, um, once I became homeless, homeless down in Atlanta, um, I had actually stolen that guy's car that I live with.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: And uh, we were taking it around to different, I was like the driver, and we would take it around to different retail stores or home depots.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: And um, I knew a guy, he would get out and basically just go in and lift stuff and run out the back door, and I'd be waiting and to drive off and hit a pawn shop.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you're you're lifting and stealing and drugging, and that's the way you sort of make your life.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: And when did when do you have when does he kick you out, or how does he kick you out, or does he kick you out?
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he he probably like after the stolen car thing?
15:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: I well, I ended up uh getting T-boned in Atlanta, and the the person that T-boned me ran off too.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, okay, I get, you know.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, so ended up just leaving the car there, and I uh contacted him and he was like, Yeah, don't come back.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, fair, fair enough.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: All right, yeah.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: All right, so where did you live?
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Um uh in a half burnt down abandoned house in Atlanta.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: So, like, what was that like?
16:24
SPEAKER_00: Um it was, I mean, it was bad.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, I remember on New Year's that people were like shooting the house for like target practice, and like we all hid in like this back closet to just hoping we weren't get hit by a stray bullet.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Um it was me and two other guys.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Um it was very black because of all the soot.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this house was half burnt down and just abandoned, and so just very dirty, disgusting.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean did you ever shower?
16:56
SPEAKER_01: No for how long?
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh months at a time.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Did your parents know where you were?
17:03
SPEAKER_00: They did not.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Did they even know this was happening?
17:05
SPEAKER_00: They they knew I was like missing in Atlanta, so to speak.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Did you have a phone?
17:12
SPEAKER_00: I did not.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: It's a w Okay, so you have no money, you're living in a half burnt down house.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: Isn't there a point in which you get sober?
17:24
SPEAKER_01: Or do you still somehow find a way to get more drugs?
17:28
SPEAKER_00: The whole time I was living there, like, yeah, I would find a way to get drugs.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it ended up with me like um holding a sign on the side of the street every morning.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: I would wake up and I would sneak into the MARDA station, which is Atlanta's uh like rail, like rail, yeah, rail line, and I would go up to like a rich part of town and hold a sign, walk on the side of the road, and I would get you know sixty to a hundred bucks a day, and that that's all I needed to feed my drug habit and buy a couple like little Debbie's and a couple drinks, and so that's that's what it looked like for a while.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you're you're doing sixty to a hundred bucks a day, you are um eating little Debbie's as you know the ultimate source of protein and health, and you're doing drugs.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so uh how does the madness come to an end?
18:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um just one of those days I looked around and I mean this had happened before, but this time, like I don't know, like I knew I was gonna die in that house, and I knew that like no one would care.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and and I would ultimately just be a statistic and um I wasn't ready to die at that time.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: So I uh I did manage to get my hands on a phone and I called my parents and they came and got me.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: And so what was that like?
19:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, humbling.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: At the time I couldn't walk.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, I had injured my back.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was in a wheelchair or crutches.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: Um and so I mean people just had crutches.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I actually don't know how.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: I got my it was a cane, I guess.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you had a cane.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Do you have a beard?
19:29
SPEAKER_00: A beard?
19:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, gnarly one.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sure I smelled glorious.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: And so your parents come they know where to find you?
19:40
SPEAKER_00: They knew the general area and I I could describe it to them too, but they knew where the bluff was.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: I had used both my parents on two separate occasions to drive me down to the bluff to score, telling them I was either going to an AA meeting or I was going to a friend's house.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: So they come and find what's the reaction on your mom's face when she sees they both come at the same time?
20:03
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: And what was the reaction on your mom's face when she sees you?
20:07
SPEAKER_00: I think at that time they were just happy I was alive.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: Because they they had put out missing persons reports.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh, they thought you were dead.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: And so when they get the call, they're so excited.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Pretty much.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: And so they find the shell of a human that you were.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: They come, they put you in the car, they take you home, and then what happens?
20:29
SPEAKER_00: I actually went to this uh Christian rehab called Teen Challenge, which was weird because I was a 29-year-old adult.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: And I was there for like four days, and I found out that I had a stimulus check, and I was like, oh, I'm out of here.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: And so um at that time though, like I really didn't want to get high again.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: I had just left that that horrible situation in Atlanta being homeless.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: And so I had been down to Texas for rehab previously.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: And so um through a, I mean, God worked his magic, and I ended up getting scholarship to a to a rehab rehab down here that I'd been through, full ride.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, my dad called up uh one of the workers named Johnny and uh said, Hey, we're we got Ethan in the car with us.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: And uh Johnny was like, Let me call you right back.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: And he got on the phone with Cole, who was the director, and yeah, they decided to full ride scholarship me.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, by this time, my parents have spent upwards of a hundred grand on so they're in Georgia and they drive you to Austin?
21:45
SPEAKER_01: Nope.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: I got on a plane and flew down here.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: They get you a plane, they fly you to Austin, and what what's the name of the rehab here?
21:53
SPEAKER_01: Solstice Recovery.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: So and where was that located?
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Out in Wimberley.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you go out to Wimberley, how long of experience?
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Was that 30 days?
22:01
SPEAKER_01: 30 days.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you get 30 days, and what do they do for 30 days?
22:06
SPEAKER_00: Really?
22:06
SPEAKER_00: This rehab was kind of different than the other ones I'd gone to because I had gone to some three-month, five-month programs that were very strict, very high accountability.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: This one they just loved on you.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: Um it was, I don't know, it was a different experience.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: And I had been through it before, so I knew it was what what I was looking for.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, but they kind of just let you go at your own pace.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: It's it's mostly just a breakaway from the substance.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: So your mind can heal a little bit and you can think clearly, and hopefully you make good choices afterwards.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: Um but so for you, the racing thoughts is what drove you to drugs.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: So how so I would almost think thinking clearly is not exactly what you want.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: Like, give me how how did you get to a place where you I mean, how did you get to a place where you could control your thoughts, you could take your caps, your caps, your thoughts captive?
22:58
SPEAKER_00: Like so, I mean, for for me, this was completely a God experience.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, I didn't do anything different than I had ever done in any other rehab, but for one reason or another, I was laying in bed.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: Um and I also was heavily addicted to crack cocaine.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Um crack heroin?
23:18
SPEAKER_01: That yeah, crack crack.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: That's like you have a death sentence all over you, and then somehow, by the grace of God, you escape it.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was like a light switch, it just flipped off.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: Because uh, I remember being in there probably about day 15, 20, um, and just thinking, man, as soon as I leave those gates, I know, I know I'm gonna get high.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: Um and like a light switch, it just flipped, and I knew that wasn't gonna be the case.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: So, like on day one, you're like, okay, 30 days here, I'll leave here, I'll go get high.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: Day two, pretty much, and then at some point in the within that 30 days, you're like, I'm not gonna get high.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so then Or I don't have to.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't have to get high.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: That would be the better way to put it.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: Because before you had to.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: And what do you think flipped it?
24:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what I mean, I it's a switch, so it might be hard to explain like what exactly flips the switch, but what flipped a switch?
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I just have to give credit to God.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, because like I said, I did nothing different that I haven't ever done.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've taken rehab super seriously before, and then I've then I've not um and gotten the same results every time.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: For some reason or another, I was just done living that lifestyle.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you step out of that lifestyle.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, you I mean, it's it's not like at the end of 30 days, there's like a job waiting for you.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: Congratulations, you graduated rehab.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: You're now gonna be a right.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: Like what happened?
24:52
SPEAKER_00: So, um probably about 30 days after I left Solstice, they invited me back to work for some of the.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, there you go.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: I guess they do.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I uh I had experience working at a rehab before uh benchmark recovery center, which started some other rehabs down here like Spearhead and uh Mecanopath.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: But um yeah, I mean I had a really good story.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: I was really good with the guys.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was friends with all the guys that I went or that were still working at that rehab, and yeah, they ended up pulling me in.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I think that was very beneficial.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you're you're doing the rehab, you're doing the the stuff.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh you're now sorry, you're not you're now working there.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: And how long did you work there?
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh probably about six months.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: And then at the end of the six months, you're like, I'm ready to leave this joint.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: What was that?
25:46
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I was praying with God and asking him because I wasn't making very much money, and so I was still relying on like my parents financial for financial assistance.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: And it's like I'm a 30-year-old male, I was married at the time.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: Um wait.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh, hold on.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: When did you have like when you're in the homeless house, half the burnt down house, was it like, hey, babe, I've really we got plans.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: Why don't you come?
26:16
SPEAKER_01: I got a great house.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: And she was just high, and she's like, Oh, this is awesome.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: Never seen anything so awesome.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: What was it?
26:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we were separated during all that.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: She had had a child, she had a child with another man.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: And that'll definitely break up a marriage.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: So she has another dude's baby.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh what were you high at the time?
26:38
SPEAKER_01: Or like how did that we were both drug addicts.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: So it's yeah.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: Like how much you know, how much faithfulness in marriage is there with drug addicts?
26:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh I would say not a lot, probably.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: So infidelity is kind of a common thing.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: It's just it's like kind of a matter of time.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: You're doing coke and it's like, nah, they're gonna do whatever they need to get more drugs.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I wasn't around either.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: Like she had gone off to rehab, and I think that's where she met this guy.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: This guy, yeah.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: And I was supposed to go to rehab, and I think I went for like a day or two and dipped out, and yeah.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: And so she was starting to move on at that point too, which you know, I get that.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay, wow.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: All right, so how long were you guys married?
27:25
SPEAKER_01: I think two years.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay, like how old were you when you got married?
27:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh 28.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: So, did did you guys have like a ceremony and stuff?
27:34
SPEAKER_00: A small one, yeah.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, was it a quick wedding?
27:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: We got married.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: I personally got married to avoid my parents finding out that we were both on dope because we were living at my parents' house.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: So, not a good strategy for relationship.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: Let's get married so my parents don't find out about drugs.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, pretty much.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that marriage lasted probably as long as you would think it would.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: And then you get divorced, you uh you're now in Austin, you're you're like, okay, I'm ready to move on, and what's the next job?
28:06
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I was praying with God, asking him what my next move was, and I had worked heating and air um in my early 20s.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, I got hired on as an installer, making like$25 an hour, which at the rehab, I was making like$15.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: So it was a immediate$10 an hour raise.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, life just kind of started to take off for me after that.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so then how do you build up this is where as a non-drug addict, I don't understand this, but you're at six months, you're drug free.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: At some point, was it you know, drugs are coming from everywhere, and you have access all the time, but then there's a point at which you're not having access like you did before.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: What changed that?
28:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, not living in Atlanta helps.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you don't know, you don't have a network of people to draw from.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, it's just basically who I surrounded myself with.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, they they were just not into the same things.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, drugs.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so yeah.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, so then did you start going to a church?
29:24
SPEAKER_00: I still yeah, I started going, but it was very briefly.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: I went to a church called Kenny Avenue for a few months.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's in one of my favorite churches in the 78704, a legit church that's legit.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you started going there.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: And uh I watched this movie or documentary called American Gospel, and it just really uh like spoke to you?
29:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, spoke to me.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was going there.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: But then tell me about I I don't see the movie, so give give me like a rundown of what what made it special for you.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: American Gospel.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: Um it was just a breakdown of the the gospel that I'd never really heard before.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, like a lot of uh not Christian, but like some churches have this like work-based like program.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: And I just knew for me that like that that wouldn't work, like it had to be based in faith, and grace and all that.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, I got that.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, that movie just really spoke to me, and you know, I started going to Kenny, but I I think I went maybe for a month before I do what I always do and like put my hands on things and claw back my will.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean, life was just really good for me, and at that time I just saw no need to go to church.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was going to AA.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: That's my church in a sense.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, essentially, yeah.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: And so, like, yeah, uh I started getting raises at work.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: I went from 25 to 30, from 30 to 35, uh, started getting buying things, material possessions, hey, where to go, all this stuff.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it kept me distracted for a little bit, a couple of years.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was I ended up getting engaged to a to a woman that I love very much.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, life looked great.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: And for the first time, I would like turn around, turn my head, and be like, okay, like I think I got this.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, what happened in the engagement?
31:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't get like you're just like a Christ follower or a non-christ follower.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: What happened?
31:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she she would say that she follows Christ or that she I don't I actually don't know if she would.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh how'd you meet her?
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, AA?
31:45
SPEAKER_00: No, uh, I think the dating apps.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: Oh, nice.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so like Tinder or whatever.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't remember which one.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't Tinder's Bumble, Bumble, yeah.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: Let's say safer about.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I mean, like we were living together, yeah.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, not living a Christian lifestyle.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: And the thing about AA um is like I I would hear all these people saying all these great things about God, but it's like they never wanted to address him by his name.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: They never wanted to give God a name.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: And it's like they acted like they knew this God, but it's is like, well, why won't you give him a name?
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Like it like personal, like, and so like well that's fascinating to hear it, like hear you put it like that.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh, because I wouldn't think that that would I mean I think you'd know obviously as a I'm a pastor, so of course I notice when people say God or Jesus or whatever, but they just would they say God of your choice.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: What would they say?
32:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there there was, yeah, God of your own understanding or conception, and you always have people joke about like the doorknob being a god or the tree or whatever, and so yeah, that stuff just wouldn't vibe with me.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I am seeking the truth, I want to understand the truth, and I got a like a sense when someone starts speaking like falsehoods or just making stuff up, like I can just smell it, and so that's what I was seeing a lot of in AA, and so it I stopped going.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, and like I said, I'm in that relationship, and life starts to get a little discontent for me.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, to where I'm like, okay, like I have a great job, I have a great fiance, um, I have a great life, but why am I not satisfied?
33:39
SPEAKER_00: And then um, if I love all these things, like especially her, like, well, it's gonna end in 60 years, and we're just gonna die and and be nothing.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: And so what's what's the point to all of this?
33:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: And so that's when I started going back to Kenny Avenue.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: And so, like, yeah, Josh would meet with me like weekly for probably about a year.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: That's wild.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we would just go over my questions, crazy thoughts and questions, yeah.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you're who does your fiance leave you, or do you leave her?
34:20
SPEAKER_01: How does that end?
34:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we got into an argument one night.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, I would and it was over like coming to church.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: I know I was like playing guitar at the church and I wanted her to come support me.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: Um what do you play?
34:33
SPEAKER_00: Like electric?
34:34
SPEAKER_00: No.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh acoustic.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: Were you singing?
34:37
SPEAKER_00: No.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh, just playing.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just playing.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, and she refused to come.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: She wouldn't come.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: And why wouldn't she come?
34:48
SPEAKER_00: What was her reasoning?
34:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh she never really gave one.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: And tell me why you loved her so much.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: What was the thing about her that made her like the greatest thing ever?
35:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, I I think it was that like I saw that she loved me, or I don't I saw that she like took me in when I had nothing pretty much and kind of stuck by my side until I had become some of these things that men are supposed to be.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: And I was in her gratitude for that.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, she was very pretty.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I mean she was successful, and you know, she worked downtown, corporate office.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, my life was just good with her.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: All right.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: So you have the argument, who says I'm out?
35:43
SPEAKER_00: I called off the wedding.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: I said I wouldn't marry you.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: She and because the the fight ended with her saying like F God in the church.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, I'm out, I'm out.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: And and God came over me in that moment because I never I probably would have let it slide, honestly, if it had been just me.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: But something came over me and I was like, Yeah, I can't marry you.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: And so she gave me the ring back, and like I immediately was like, Oh no, what have I done?
36:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: Did you ever talk to her anymore?
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, not anymore.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: We we talked for like a year after that incident and tried to work things out.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: She moved out and got her own place.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: And like I said, I I think I got saved maybe three months later, but um yeah, tried to work things out, and ultimately I just saw that we were never gonna get on the same page.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: So talking about salvation, like you you said you got saved.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, what was the give me the what that experience was like?
36:46
SPEAKER_01: What when did you how'd you make that call?
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um, like I said, I was meeting with Josh, and I was I like I uh I would watch YouTube videos of like John MacArthur, Jeff Durbin, yeah, um, and some of those other guys.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: And like you did you're going for the hardcore dudes.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: What what drew you to that?
37:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think it was like the high accountability rehab that I experienced.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: And so I saw the the benefits of that.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: Um and I like I said, I call it what it is.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I knew what truth looked like at that time, and so that's that's what I wanted.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, I'm meeting with Josh every week, and we're going through parts of the Bible, and uh it, you know, it was hard me coming to Christ.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, like I knew I was gonna lose all my friends, I knew I would ultimately lose my marriage.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I did.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: Um everything that you knew would happen.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: Jesus said, I didn't come to bring a peace but a sword.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I don't know.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh again, I have to like it's it's like I got sober.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: There was a light switch that just flipped in my brain because I was cool with going to church and you know, making friends and attending, but like I just I would always ask Josh, like, well, how do you know this is true?
38:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you know?
38:08
SPEAKER_00: Right.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: And he just kept directing me back to the character of Christ.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I would fall back on.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: And and I actually had a dream one night.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, and everything changed for me.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: I woke up.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Tell me the dream.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: I uh I like in the dream I saw Jesus on the cross.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: And in that moment, like I knew how personal his sacrifice was for me.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: And so like after that, like I was I was full sin, like I was on board um to where, like, yeah, some days I I have doubts or whatever, but um, they don't rule my life or my thoughts like they did before.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: All right, talk to me about uh your shirt.
39:00
SPEAKER_01: Abortion is not healthcare.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: To no harm.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: That is, that is abortion is murder.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: You're like, you are a walking billboard uh for the uh abolitionist uh pro-life movement.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: What what uh talk to me, how how did how did you uh what how did that become a passion of yours?
39:21
SPEAKER_00: Um my fiance um has had a chemical abortion with the plan B's.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: Was it yours?
39:34
SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, I guess too early to even say type deal.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: But like, yeah, it would have been mine.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like so in a sense, she took a child from you.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: That's wild.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: Man, how do how do you how do you wrestle with that?
39:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, like I try I don't know.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: Like I I yeah, try to forgive her for that.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: Um I don't guess you're commanded to forgive her, right?
40:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean it's like not up for yeah, but it's it probably probably that feeling comes back of like hurt.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: But how often do you think about it?
40:19
SPEAKER_00: Not too often.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: Um and like I think me and myself included could do a better job at pushing back against the culture that just kind of reinforces that lifestyle um or or doesn't shame it enough.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, I think we see the consequences daily.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: I was on uh uh the hike and bike trail uh downtown, and uh Adrian and I were walking, and this girl comes up with a planned parenthood like vest, I guess.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, hey, I just want to tell you it's like the National Women's Day.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: I just want to be like, you know, and she was evangelizing me.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, hey, listen, I don't want to get in a fight.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm just telling you, we're not even close to the same team.
41:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna pray for you.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, yeah.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: I was doing, I was like, you know, I'm not prepared emotionally to kind of engage this because I'm kind of getting I could feel myself getting kind of like ready to battle.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: Um anyway, but yeah, I I think that that reality of like the world, the culture of death, because Christians have said so little, the drift of the fabric of society has been um more and more and more and more towards uh this idolatrous state of and I idolatrous is a weird word, but um this reality of like I should do whatever I want with whatever is inside my body, my body, my choice kind of thought.
41:45
SPEAKER_01: And and no one questions that no one goes, actually, that's a life, that's God's.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I think because we've relegated God to the material, um, like meaning if I can't see it, it can't be true.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: And so I I I can deal with a God that has a Bible and there's rules in it, um, but let's just not get carried away with stuff.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, anyway, so I feel like that's where our culture has sort of gone.
42:13
SPEAKER_01: And so uh in a materialistic world, it doesn't see a need for a savior, doesn't see a need for the spiritual battle, it doesn't see the spiritual battle that when we start killing people because they're inconvenient, it the darkness, the spiritual darkness is winning like over and over and over and over again.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: And um to a point of which, and here's here's just the reality, I just know at our own church, there have been so many women who have had abortions and they feel so much shame.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: And and maybe the reason why they're not actively speaking out is because they're like, Who am I to speak out?
42:47
SPEAKER_01: I am I'm a murderer too, or I'm an abortion person too.
42:50
SPEAKER_01: And I think that might be the reason why they don't speak out, but that should be more the reason why.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: And I and again, it's because if you're now I'm not an abortion kick, but uh I I think what happens is you you get to a place where you get so angry um with yourself and all the shame, yeah, uh, then um you don't want to to let that be exposed.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: What I don't think anyone's been trained, prepared for, cultured to say, like, hey, that is something that there is healing for.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: One of the things we say all the time at our church is uh if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not necessarily.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: I guess the Bible says that.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: First John 1.8.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: And 1 John 1 9 says, but if we confess our sins, God's faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse from all unrighteousness.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think most people that have had an abortion are like, I'm forgiven.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: Hallelujah.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: However, what happens because they're not willing, they don't they haven't shared that, it hasn't come out in the open.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: They are not, they haven't exposed the shame of their darkness to the light.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh they don't have healing because James 5 16 says, Confess your sins one to another and pray for each other that you may be healed.
43:59
SPEAKER_01: There has Be rally, you say, like, I committed an abortion, and then someone goes prayerfully, thank you, God, for for you know, for forgiving this per bringing this confession before you.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: We know that this deserves death, that the darkness that they did is evil, but you, Jesus, went to the cross on their behalf and died the death for them because you're that good.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: They were that bad, but you're that good.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: Yes, Holy Spirit, would you remind them there's now no condemnation for those who are in Christ?
44:29
SPEAKER_01: And when the person can can hear that and then realize the Holy Spirit wants to empower them to obviously not do it again, but to live a life of proclamation, of hope, forgiveness, and joy.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: It takes the power and the sting, uh, so that when you sort of see a planned parenthood person, you don't just go, nah, oh well, you know, like I understand it's hard life out there.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: You go, no, that is gonna do damage and darkness to your soul.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, that's my I I know I got a soapbox.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, you're fine.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh anyway, so well that that that's wild.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so um, so that's been a heart of yours ever since that experience with your fiance, and so and it continues.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I mean ultimately um it's just what I see out of the Bible.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: When I go to the Bible, like I see a character of God displayed in the old testament, and I see the same character displayed in the New Testament.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I think you can't separate truth from love.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so if I am to love my neighbor, um, I'm also to hold them accountable and tell them the truth that they're heading towards hell.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, darkness and forever to be separated from God and hell.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: That is wild.
45:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
45:42
SPEAKER_01: All right, so um let's just talk about now that now that you're here uh and you're at our church, so glad to have you.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: Um came to men's group this morning.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: Way to go.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm gonna give you to another men's group this afternoon, uh, just after this.
45:57
SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited about that.
45:58
SPEAKER_01: Like the biggest thing about the Christian life, as you've probably experienced, is that you can have, I think the first season there, you had truth, God, God's word and extent, and God's spirit.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm I'm committed to not doing drugs again.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: But without God's people to love you, cherish you, remind you of doctrine, remind you of truth, pull you towards the light, and push back the darkness, I think that's the one thing I'd say for you is like, man, I'm excited for you to experience community that's real and genuine um and life-giving.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, man, I can't wait.
46:31
SPEAKER_01: This listen, if you've got any questions about homelessness, I know that Ethan would love to talk to you.
46:37
SPEAKER_01: If you got any any questions about uh abortion and kind of what he's been through with that, uh man, I think that you should text us 737-231-0605.
46:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh Ethan, just going back real quick uh on your story, um, like how as a a person or as a Christian really, um, have you like gone to any like anti-abortion things?
47:01
SPEAKER_01: Have you done any like activism?
47:04
SPEAKER_00: Not yet, but that is on the table.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: I do have some signs, some activism signs.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:12
SPEAKER_00: So um yeah.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: All right, I love it.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: All right, let's.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, I can get out into the community and yeah, yeah.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'll have to connect you to all the right people for that.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, all right.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm I'm just been pumped that like you have been so open with your life, and I think you're gonna find a lot of freedom um in the more, the more you expose just even the parts of the stuff that are shameful, and then you get them out and people pray for you and they they remind you how loved you are and what God's doing.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: How is your relationship with your parents uh uh adjusted, healed?
47:41
SPEAKER_01: I don't are they loving Jesus or where are they at?
47:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, they actually credit a lot of me to um them like turning towards the Lord and kind of running towards him.
47:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, having having to deal with me for the past 10 years.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
48:01
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm looking at you now.
48:03
SPEAKER_00: To imagine you as a homeless dude is just wild.
48:05
SPEAKER_00: I wish I had some pictures because, like, yeah, it it would be it's night and day.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: I had long hair, long beard.
48:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, give me some pictures.
48:14
SPEAKER_01: I'll try and put them out there when we put this out on the podcast because people need to see that.
48:17
SPEAKER_01: That's that's I can't imagine how wild that was.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: What a redemption story of the Lord.
48:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, when people when you think about how do you help the homeless, what's what's your answer to that?
48:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh man, um I just me personally, um I'll get them some food, I'll give them some money.
48:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, whenever I see, whenever I see them, I'll just know that hey, I have the power right now to change this person's entire day.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: And maybe that's all they need to get to the next day to to be saved, just like I was.
48:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it took it took years for me to to find Jesus.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: And if I had not had some of the help that I had had, like with my parents, um and other people around me, I I mean, maybe I wouldn't have made it.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: So I try to withhold judgment and like whatever they're going through, I get it.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: It's sinful, it might not be the best circumstances, but um I do think that you can get out there and you can yeah, provide them just that little bit of extra that goes so far.
49:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're gonna have to get you out on speaking to the homeless and and doing uh homeless shelters and stuff.
49:35
SPEAKER_01: I one of my fur one of the places I broke my, I guess, cut my teeth on, I guess is what you say when you start preaching is homeless shelters and stuff.
49:42
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's it's fun.
49:44
SPEAKER_01: And you know, you get to give hope to guys are in the the darkness.
49:47
SPEAKER_01: And if they're there, they at least sort of care.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: And um or prison ministry.
49:52
SPEAKER_01: That's wild too.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: All right.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, man, hey, Ethan, thanks so much for joining us.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh, man, I'm so pumped.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: Remember, please text us in if you got any questions for Ethan.
50:01
SPEAKER_01: We'd love to bring him back.
50:02
SPEAKER_01: And uh, and you'll see him on Sunday at breakaway.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: Just go and say what's up.
50:08
SPEAKER_01: Hey, thanks so much so much for being here.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for joining us.
50:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we'll see you next time.
50:13
SPEAKER_01: Until then, have an awesome week of worship.