Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 408 - Dishonest Joe's Pawn Shop

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 408 - Dishonest Joe's Pawn Shop · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: What what.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Repent of any sage juice see up the true down
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: a rail rabe from the junis the mob, David, very
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: rude being.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: The food isn't the pure whennessy? It's rainy night hill,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: the lights, the bread, all sides never be ridend basting
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: you and the fo for young to see.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: And here we go, indeed, indeed, here we go.
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: It is Friday night. It is the lone Goment podcast.
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: And for those Kafuzas out there who think they're coming
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: up against the kings of this ship and trying to
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: go live with another JFK related podcast on a Friday
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: night is a good idea.
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: You're an idiot that couldna work just saying who is that?
• 2:04
  Speaker 5: I Am not even gonna quantify, all.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Right, fair enough, you can type it in our private chat.
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: I'll let you know.
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: You'll be like, who, Yeah, some people have to learn
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: the hard way apparently. Yes, anyway, what is up, everybody?
• 2:24
  Speaker 5: We've got a full house already, Joe, so let's get
• 2:28
  Speaker 5: right into it.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: We're gonna be talking about, honest Joe's pawn shot and
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: exactly what the sam hell was going on with this
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: guy with this vehicle, with his place with his connections,
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: because there's some crazy ones and we're gonna get into
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: all of them right here tonight.
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: Joe.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm excited about it. And uh yeah, his name
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: wasn't Joe, but that was kind of the phrase he
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: used for his store. And uh, we have some funny
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: pictures of him with a I think it's a thirty
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: cow and uh, some statements and other good things. And uh,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I believe you'll kick it off with some deallyt Plaza
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: witness statements that kind of corroborate or or are you
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: know similar to that.
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: Well, it's gonna it's it's it's not what you think.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: Oh it's not that one. It's a it's another one.
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: It's not what you think.
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: Let's just say he's a TikTok exclusive. I'll just leave
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: it at that. And he's a horse's ass.
• 3:46
  Speaker 6: By the way, Hey John, Uh, do I have a
• 3:53
  Speaker 6: thirty out six with the scope and a ex camera
• 3:56
  Speaker 6: that I could buy from you from your pawnshop?
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: A matter fact, young man, they.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Don't let the craziest have guns up north here. No
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: I don't, but I wish I did.
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: Know he's talking about honest Joe at his pawn shop.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Well you said, Joe, be.
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: It's supposed to be a funny joke.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Joe, I know, I get it, and reference to yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: I'm just joking back saying I'm.
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: Not allowed to maybe over to TikTok and watching that
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: might be a good home I'm joking, joking.
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: Don't do that. I will find you. I will hunt
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: you down, and I will find you like Liam Neeson.
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: Baby, All right, Joe, let's get right into it without
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: further ada. It is Friday night and we are not
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: effing around here, so let me share.
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: Me screen here.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: And we're gonna take a look at some interesting testimony
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: from some more interesting people. All right, First up here,
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: we have an FBI interview with missus Tony Ruby Henderson,
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: and this is from December sixth, sixty three. She says,
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: on November twenty second, sixty three, at approximately twelve fifteen,
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: she was standing on the east side of Elm Street,
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: just north of Houston, awaiting the passing of the presidential
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: motorcade at that site, she said. Shortly after she arrived
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: at this location and just prior to the arrival of
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: the motorcade, she recalls in Ambulam's arriving and departing the
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: area to pick up an individual whom she understood had
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: had an epileptic fit.
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: Aka fished, he fished Joe.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, that famous story.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe she had a little tag of nitress next to her.
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, one too many knightrous balloons. Missus Henderson said after
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: the Ambalams deported departed the area, she heard a woman
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: in the records building located on the southwest corner of
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: Elm and Houston yell yeah Woodman, which is a Dallas
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: High school, and she looked in the direction from which
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: the yell emanated. She said, thereafter, uh that she swung
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: around and looked in the building in which she works,
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: which is the dal Text Building, the building located on
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: the southeast corner of Elman Houston, and thence around to
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: the Texas school Book Depository building. She said she observed
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: numerous people on various floors looking out the windows of
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: the Texas school Book Depository building and recalls that she
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: saw two men on one of the upper floors of
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: the building, which is interesting here for our purposes, she said.
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: She recalls one of the men had on a white
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: shirt and one of them had on a dark shirt.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: She said she only observed these men from the waist
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: up and does not know what their attire consisted of.
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: She said these men were standing back from the window,
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: and she got the impression that they were working and
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: yet looking out the window in anticipation of the motorcade
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: passing the building. She said she saw these men before
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: the motorcade reached Houston and LM, but doesn't have any
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: idea how long it was prior to the motor cade
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: arriving at that location. She said she believes that the
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: person in the white shirt had dark hair and was
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: possibly Mexican or Cuban, but could also have been a Negro,
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: as he appeared to be dark complexion. She says she
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: couldn't describe the other person other than the fact that
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: he was taller than the aforementioned individual. Henderson said, at
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: the time the motorcade passed where she was standing, she
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: heard what she initially thought what's a firecrack eyed Joe,
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: and saw what she thought was paper fly out of
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: the presidential car. She said she now realizes that it
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: was a shot she heard and what was paper was
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: probably gruesomely flesh. She said after the first shot, she
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: believed she heard two or more in rapid succession, and
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: then a fourth one, Joe, a fourth one. Missus Henderson
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: said that after the shooting, she stood transfixed for some
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: time before returning.
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: To work, much like Bill Fraser on the steps.
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: She said she returned to her place of employment at
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: approximately twelve forty three PM. That's a long time to
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: be standing in one place perplexed after the shots.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Yes it is, Yes it is.
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: He said.
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: She became extremely upset and nervous after the President's assassination,
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: and it was necessary for her to take the following
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: Monday off her job. She was so upset, she said,
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: she hesitated to mention anything about her observations, but felt
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: that she should relate the same as they might be
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: possibly of some benefit.
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: She reiterated that she could definitely state.
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: That one of the men she saw in the window
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: of the Texas school Book Depository was not, and I repeat, not,
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: a Negro. She said she does not know what floor
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: of the building these men were on, but doesn't recall
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: seeing anyone on a floor higher up than the one
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: that they were on, which sounds a lot like the
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: sixth floor. Joe just saying, now we know that there
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: were three black dudes on the fifth floor. Right, But
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: this is not what she's talking about, right, so let
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: us continue. So that is Missus Henderson. Now, I wanted
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: to read that because gonna it's gonna set the table
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: a little bit for in interesting observations in Daily Plaza
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: that you may have not heard of before, and of
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: course things like this. She wasn't talked to for the
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: Warrant Commission because well, her testimony is.
• 10:16
  Speaker 5: A little inconvenient. Joe, Yes, a week two people on
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: the sixth floor.
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: One of them was not a Negro, one of them
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: was definitely dark complexed.
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: I'm just saying, right.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: If your testimony is inconvenient and you're not extremely relevant
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: and known about, you're probably not going to be included.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Or if you are, you're going to be buried.
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: Yes, all right, let's take another gander at some more
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: Daily Plaza revelations, shall we.
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: All right?
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: This is an HSCA interview with Mary Hall from nineteen
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: seventy and seven. Missus Hall was interviewed at her sister's
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: home and stated that on November twenty second, she was
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: employed by the E. Willis Fashion Company, located in the
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: dal Tex Building in five and one Elm Street on
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: the fifth floor. The day before the President's visit, that
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: would be November the twenty first, nineteen sixty three, two
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: men came to the factory and had a conversation with
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: mister Ralph Leeds, which she overheard. Now Ralph Leeds was
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: her boss, words to the effect that they were determining
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: the route of the motorcade. Hall was unable to state
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: whom the men represented. On the morning of the twenty
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: second of November, some time between nine thirty and ten thirty,
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: Pay attention, folks, Missus Hall states that she glanced out
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: the window her sewing machine faced Houston Street and was
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: near the window and observed an old type station wagon
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: with the right on it saying honest Joe, drive into
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: Houston Street and park next to the school book depository.
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: A young man whom she believed to be a delivery man,
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: got out and took a package about five feet long
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: and six to eight inches wide, which sounds an awful
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: lot like a mother effing rifle from the car and
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: entered the side door of school book depository. At this time,
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: Missus Hall states that she resumed her work and didn't
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: look out the window until around lunchtime when she looked
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: across the street into the school book depository sixth floor window.
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: Okay, let's see it.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: And you have to imagine at that point before the
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: motor Kate came by. You know, it's a building filled
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: with books like a packages going in and out. Would
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: it seem that suss right? But they would raise.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: Eyebrows coming in the vehicle that it was coming in. Okay,
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: the Honest Joe Edsel station wagon that is covered in
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: advertisements for Honest Joe's pawn Shop and a fifty caliber
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: machine gun mounted on the top of it might throw
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: up a couple of red flags. But again, she says,
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: the sixth floor window was level with their fifth floor window,
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: and she saw a white male wearing a hat. Now
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: we know that wasn't Oswald because Oswald didn't wear hats,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: apparently looking for something among boxes. Now, this could have
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: been a detective, you know, you know, are the police searching, right.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Right, one of the white hats as we call them, right, Yeah,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: something like that.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: She showed the man to her coworker, Gertrude Fowler, who
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: we've talked about on the show before, and a few
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: minutes later they all went to have lunch and watched
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: the president's motorcade. So, but what she's saying is that
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: she observed a guy with the hat looking for something
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: among boxes before the assassination, not after, okay, because they
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: went to have lunch and watch the president's motorcade a
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: few minutes later. So when the motorcade came by, missus
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: Hall states that she heard a bang. The President's hands
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: went up towards his head and a cop fell off
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: his motorcycle. Another bang and the President's head went over.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: Jackie got out of the car onto the trunk. Everyone
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: was screaming and running. I thought I saw smoke coming
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: from the railroad. A lot of people ran to the tracks,
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: including myself, but we were turned around and went back
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: to work at the factory. There were Plaine clothes police
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: in there. I told mister Leeds about the man in
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: the window across the street when I heard somebody say
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: that the shots had come from the school book depository,
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: and mister Leeds told me to talk to police and
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: tell them what I saw, which I did, and later
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: we were all sent home. So, and that's Mary Hall interview.
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: You know that's interesting. Why if you're gonna make something
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: up about seeing something. Why in the hell are you
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: gonna choose an Honest Joe's pawn shop car take you know,
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: somebody getting out with a rifle shate package and taken
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: into the school book depository.
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: I mean, that's odd.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: It's odd, and I think what we have to keep
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: in mind here is Honest Joe's, as we'll see in
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: you know, his storefront was a very was the guy
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: that was very interesting interested in advertising? So was this
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: truck or van or truck whatever just going around advertising
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: knowing that there's a lot of people in the area,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: or is there something more sinister to it? Right? I
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: think that's what we have to kind of.
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: Well, it was definitely seen in a couple of different places,
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: as we'll see, but one of them was it sounds
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: like and I'm pretty sure there wasn't a side door
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: on the school book depository, so she must have been
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: mistaken and was talking about the rear door, right, which
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: is still right there off of Houston Street.
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: But still I.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Mean yeah, and it still goes to the security around
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: the Dally Plaza and specific specifically the parking lot in
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: front of Bowers and in the corner of the pickup
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: fence area.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: Right, Well, that's more on that way other side. You're think,
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: gotta think she's in the dal Text Building looking out
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: the window, okay, at the school book depository, so she
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: might see the car pull up Houston Street and somebody
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: get out and go in the back door there she
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: just said side door.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: But okay, but like the backloading dock area.
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: Right, well, not even that far.
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: I mean there was a man door literally in the
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: back corner of the school book depository, the back right corner,
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: like right on the side of the elevator shaft.
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: All right, let's take a look at this one. This is.
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: Uh An hsca interview again with Anne Ruth Moore of Dallas, Texas.
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: And let's see, it doesn't really match.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: She currently works at the Donovan Galvani dress Factory, so
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: obviously she was another one that was working in the
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: Dal Text building, right. She was interviewed by Maxwell and Day.
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: And this is a bit of a long one, so
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna skim through here and get to the do
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: you see bits if you will. Yeah, she was at
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: her job five o' one Elm Street. We came down
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: from the fifth floor down to the street. We were
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: standing on the corner directly. When you say we, do
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: you mean we my co workers? Your co workers right?
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: Can you give me their names?
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Irma, Jean van Zant, Gertrude Fowler and her husband, Jean, Lily,
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: Ruth Johnson, and Mary Francis I can't think of her
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: last name, Ruby Cannon, and Joyce Jones. Now I'd like
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: to interrupt the tape a little bit right here, just
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: to make sure this tape is picking up.
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: Okay, blah blah blah blah blah. What time did you
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: go to lunch? Twelve o'clock on the die right right? Yep?
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: So people going down You were standing directly in front
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: of the book depository on Elm Street. On Elm Street, Yes,
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: tell us what happened? She said, Well, we were standing there.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: We was waiting for the motorcade. The motor KDE came
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: up Houston, turned directly in front of us and started
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: down Elm And while we was standing there. But the
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: motor cave was real close to us, close enough for
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: us to reach out and touch it, but didn't. But
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: didn't anyone do this? And by that time they passed
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: by us. He waved to us, and by that time
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: we heard a shot. We heard a noise, I'll say,
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: and I said, I thought, I said, I mean, man,
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: this one talks just like Bill Frasier. God damn, Now,
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: what in the world is this backfire in a car
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: like right here now at this time? And then I
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: saw the President when he kind of leaned over like forward,
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: he leaned forward, and then after he leaned forward, I
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: heard the second shot. And then when I heard the
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: second shot, that's when Missus Kennedy stood up and I
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: could see all this.
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: When it fell.
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: When you say you can see all this, you mean
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: you could. I could see his forehead. Seemed like this
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: whole forehead just fell down, just fell down, because when
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: it hit a knee, when it hit a knee, this
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: all of this just came down. And then I started screaming,
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: and everybody started screaming, and after that it.
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: Was unther chaos, Joe. It was we was all running
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: and running into.
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: Each other like a Three Stooges movie and knocking each
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: other down. And Miss Kennedy was standing straight up in
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: the car. No wonder they didn't take this one to
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: the Warren Commission, but we'll get there. And the Secret
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: Service man ran and he jumped in the car, and
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: he grabbed miss Kennedy and pushed it down and then got.
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: In there right on top of her.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Of course, referring to Clint Hill.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like they were in the bathroom at a.
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: Oh what does that play, camp David? Yes, Clint, we
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: only have five minutes until Jack comes back. Okay, where
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: are we? Oh?
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, when Hills on top of missus Kennedy. And then
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: by this time the motorcate had speed it up and
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: had gone on underneath the underpass and.
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: Out of sight where you could see it.
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: So then she says she only heard two shots, Joe,
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: two shots, and they came directly over our head. And
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: we were standing directly in front of the book depository.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: The direction you thought they came from was directly over
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: your head, over our head. Uh huh? Did you turn around?
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: I turned around to see why it was somebody backfiring
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: a car.
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: Did you look up? No?
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: I didn't look up. I just thought it was a
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: car backfiring, and you heard two shots?
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: Two shots? Yes? Uh?
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: She turned and ran back into the building. I guess
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: the tal texts back into your building. Yes, did you
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: see anyone come out of the book depository. No, there
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: were so many people there you couldn't tell where they
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: were coming from, and they were all running in different directions.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: You ran back into your building. Where'd you go? She
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: went up to the fifth floor and we were standing in,
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: all of us, standing right there looking out the window. Now,
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: you all ran back, just all your co workers. Yes,
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: And you went back and you started looking out the window.
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: Yes. And what did you see then?
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: Well, we saw people lying on the ground and the
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: police attending to them, and people running, and cameras flashing,
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: and police running in and out of buildings and all
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: around behind the buildings. You say you saw a lot
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: of people running. Which direction of the running?
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: Do you know?
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: They must have ran out pretty quick if they still
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: saw people lying on the ground. I'm guessing they mean
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: the new.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: Ones amazingly fast. You say you saw a lot of
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: people running. What direction was people running in? They was
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: running back up Elm Street or down Houston. They didn't
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: go towards the motorcade was going. They were going back
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: from the motorcade. Cameras flashing. Nobody in the group took pictures.
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: Blah blah blahlah blah blah.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: Saw a picture of you a group, Yeah, standing on
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: the corner.
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: I don't know it was in the newspaper. Blah blah blah.
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: Now I was gonna ask her a few questions. I
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: thought it was on the street behind us. The first
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: noise on the street. Yeah, see, we were standing right
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: on the corner of the street, and I thought it
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: was behind us. So he tries to pin down their location,
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: talked about batfir in.
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: A car dropped down, fell down.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: So Miss Kennedy jumped up and started screaming, I swear
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: there is a reason for this.
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: We'll get there, I promise.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: A bunch of hoop lock going on. Good lord, all right,
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: now they're gonna take a break. But they finally bring
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: out a map and say, exactly where were you lady?
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: After all that, so she finally points it out.
• 24:03
  Speaker 5: Now here we go. The people standing there was gathered around.
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: I talked to missus van Zant and she indicse she
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: saw a car pull into Houston Street somewhere in around here.
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: Yes, did you see that car? Yes? Right? What did
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: the car do? Well?
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: At that time, Elm Street was a two way street,
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: so it came down Elm going towards the book Depository
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: and it was driving real slow. Now, we couldn't see
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: the car while it was in front of us, but
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: when it came down the side where we were looking
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: out the window, you could see this car. It was
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: a black truck and it had lots of writing on it.
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: And the truck had Jack Ruby and Honest Joe. And
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: I remember saying to one of my coworkers, what in
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: the world is honest Joe doing out in the middle
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: of the street at a time like this. And it
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: also had Jack Ruby on it. Yeah, it had Jack
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: Ruby written on there and honest Joe. And we thought,
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: I said, well, shit, that must be the same person.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: I remember thinking to myself, Jack Ruby and Honest Joe
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: must be the same person. And he came on down
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: to the intersection of Elman Houston Street and he pulled
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: into the intersection and he just sat there. I didn't
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: see this person. I just saw a man with a
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: hat on. But I didn't actually see him because I
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: wasn't paying attention.
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: But he had.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: I saw a man with a hat sitting in this truck.
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: And he drove down into the intersection of Houston and
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: Elm Street and he sit there for maybe two minutes
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: and then he turned and he went down Houston Street
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: in the direction of the motor cave was to come. Now,
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: you said it said Jack Ruby on it. Did it
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: say Jack anything else besides honest Joe and Jack Ruby?
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: It had the word tools, a lot of words like
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: tools and things like that on that order. Could you
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: describe the car to me or the truck to me? Well,
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: to me, it was black. It was just a black
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: pickup truck. And it just had all this writing on it.
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: And the writing was some white and some and it
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: was on this black truck. Are you sure it was
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: a truck. Yeah, I'm positive as a truck. And did
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: you also see a car?
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: Maybe?
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: No, I didn't see a car. I just saw this
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: one truck. It was in the direction of the motor cade,
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: and we wondered why, now was this before the motorcade
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: came or after before? So again this is another witness
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: to an honest Joe's truck before the assassination the morning
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: of the assassination?
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: Odd, yes, did you see the truck anymore? No? Not.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: After we went down Houston Street he disappeared behind the
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: building there and I saw him no more.
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: How long after the truck disappeared. Did the motor cad
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: come along?
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: What must have been about fifteen minutes because it wasn't
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: our lunch time yet. We were looking out of the
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: window when we saw it. Oh you saw this from
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: a window. Yeah, we was looking out the window. This
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: was before you came down on the corner, before we
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: came down to lunch. Uh huh. And you said it,
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: said Jack Ruby, and honest Joe, She says, yeah, honest
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: Joe and tools Right, Okay, did you know Jack Ruby? No,
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: have you ever heard that saw that name before? She says,
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: never heard that name before, and never had no connection
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: with the president at all, with Jack Ruby. Now, after
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: the incident with Ruby and Oswald, do you recall that
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: you had seen it on the truck. Yes, But that's
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: when we somehow know that that was a connection. In
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: reference to the people that were standing on the corner
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: with you, can you can you tell me again what
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: their names were? And blah blah blah blah blah.
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: I don't know because we don't go to work together anymore.
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: Blah blah blah blah blah.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: Right, So that's odd, but it is some corroboration. I
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: mean this lady is all over the place with her testimony.
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: But now we have somewhere painted on this truck or
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: car or whatever it is, a car that looks like
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: a truck. I don't know it, says Jack Ruby, and
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: honest Joe now on it, Joe?
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: What hell?
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Well? You know, well we get to who honest Joe
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: really was and his FBI statement, and he did admit
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: to doing business with Jack Ruby at some point in time.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense to me as if you would
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: legit advertise it in the area of the assassination that's mine.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: Could I see Jack Ruby advertising on this dude's fucking car? Yeah, yes, yes,
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: Jack Ruby loved to put ads in the newspapers. And
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: if he thought that he could garner some kind of
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: new business from this car driving around with this ship
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: all over it, Warner, you know, hey, that that car
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: got my attention. I need advertise on that thing, right,
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: mm hmm. People come to my clubs. I could see
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: maybe a Carousel club advertisement or something like that on there.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Sure, but why passed your name on it?
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's just said Jack Rabies. I think again,
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: this is months after No, this is years after you. Yeah, yeah,
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: so I think she just may be misremembering a couple
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: of things there, but.
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: It's to be expected. All right, Here we go with
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: a J. Milligan. This is a letter.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Uh ah damn you.
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: All right? Really? Uh? Bill Decker.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: I don't know why it's on Bill Decker. Uh stationary.
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: But whatever.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: Fabricating pipe for the Republic Bank building at the end
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: of the Katie Railroad yards.
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: Now, for those of y'all who have.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: Heard the Jean Hills story of the green pickup truck
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: breaking down in front of the grassy do and somebody
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: looked like Jack Ruby and Lee Oswald getting out of
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: it and taking something that looked like a rifle up
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: to the top of the grassy.
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: No type of thing. Blah blah blah.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Wait was that Jean Hill? Was that someone else? The
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: other lady?
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: Uh? I can't remember. I thought it was Jean Hill.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Shot correct us if we're wrong. I thought it was
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: the other lady that saw this, right, the pickup truck
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: kind of under the overpass type of thing.
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, they had a cop.
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: The cops came and they took one guy back to
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: the bank building to get another truck, and then they
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: came back with that truck, and they got behind the
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: other the truck that was broke down, and pushed it
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: back to the bank build Bilding where somebody's hearing it
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: right now. There's police reports to say that somebody was
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: with this truck the entire time. Nobody got any rifles
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: out of it or took anything up to the grassy area.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: It was pulled off to the side of the road.
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: The hood was up on it because it was broken down.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Julianne Mercer, Thank you, Derek and Timothy Ryan.
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, thank you folks.
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: But back to this AJ Milliken, right, he says or
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: she says, uh, about five or ten minutes before the
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: president came Now again, think of the timing. Five or
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: ten minutes before the President came by, I observed a
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: truck from Honest Joe's pawn Shop parked by the book Depository.
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: Again corroboration yet another person.
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: I think there's the pokmon now.
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: Then it drove off five or ten minutes before the
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: President's car came by. Just after the President's car passed,
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: I heard three shots come up from Houston and Elm
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: right by the depository building, and then immediately I heard
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: two more shots come from the arcade between the bookstore
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: and the underpass, and then three more shots came from
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: the same direction, only sounded further back.
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: So let's count these shots here. I heard three shots.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: Come from, say, the book depository, and then immediately I
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: heard two more come from the arcade between the bookstore
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: and the underpass. That would be the grassy knoll.
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: That's five.
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: And then three more came from the same direction, only
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: they sounded further back.
• 32:41
  Speaker 5: So now that's eight. Okay, eight shots this guy or
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: girl heard again.
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: You can see why they weren't cold in front of
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: the Warrant Commission.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't find a date for this document, Rob.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: I don't think you need one. I mean, this is
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: Bill Decker. It had to be close, uh to the
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: to the it had to be close to the twenty second.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean a lot of these
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: things came out in like March, as we'll get to
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: when we get to my segment.
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: But it could not.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Right right right, so definitely in between, but I would
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: side with you closer to November, right.
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: They said it sounded like a forty five automatic or
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: a high powered rifle. Then everybody started running up that hill.
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: A man standing on the south side of Elm Street
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: was either hit on the foot or the ankle and
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: fell down, and then I went back to work. Heyj Milliken,
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: Now there's a lot of fucked up stuff going on
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: in this in this telling of what they say they experienced.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: But another you know, here we have somebody throwing in
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: the honest Joe's truck parked over by the book depository.
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: I don't know exactly where this cat was standing, but
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: you know, it is what it is.
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: Man, again, it's just another corroboration with a bunch of crazy,
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: you know. Eight shots and people shot in the foot
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: and you know, I don't know that's interesting.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Shot in the foot, that's a new one to me.
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: Shot through the heart in your tube? Name?
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Is it late or late?
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: You give love a bad name?
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: Right here we have and we have a date on
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: this one. Joe the twenty second of November. Baby James
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: Williamson no relation to the original gangster Jesse James, I'm sure,
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: but he lives in Irving, Texas, allegedly last Tuesday at
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: approximately twelve fifteen. So I don't know why it says
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: Wednesday morning Oh, I guess it's twelve fifteen.
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: At night on Tuesday.
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: That would have been early early ass early Wednesday morning. Okay,
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: A lady friend and myself we made an acquaintance of
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: a man who invited.
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: Us to his motel room for some after hours drinking
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: after twelve night.
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: I don't have his name, but I have the license
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: number of the car he was driving.
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: I left my car.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, how do you not have his name at least
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: the first name? But his license.
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: Names are so formal though, you just call him weedy
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: or sweetheart or whatever you want to call.
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: Him, right, huh yeah, whatever again.
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: This is Jesse James and his lady friend going to
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: some guy, going in some guy's car back to some
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: guy's motel for some after hours drinking that they don't
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: know who he is. They don't know his name, but
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: I have the license number of the car he was driving.
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: I left my car at a parking lot near a
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: Baker hotel in Dallas, and we proceeded to his hotel,
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: which had a large kitchen. Net As you go across
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: Houston Street Viaduct, it is the first motel on the right.
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: It's a big white motel, not too modern. Though I
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: don't know the name of it.
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: After the three of us got.
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: To his motel six Flags, we had a few drinks
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: in his room. He proceeded to entertain us with a
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: mandolin Joe interesting.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine that scene?
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: It's billy strings, and he seemed to be pretty day
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: am good with it. We had been there about thirty
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: minutes as well as I remember.
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: About this time.
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: This fellow began to make indecent remarks to my woman
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: to the effect that he wanted her to.
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: Get in bed with him. Joe, shocker. Now we had
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: all been drinking.
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: I was fairly well polluted, I admit more so than
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: the others, but I still had my mental and reasoning powers.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: At this point I objected to his language, sir, and overtures,
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: and we became involved in an argument of words. Now
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: do you hold on a damn minute there, sir. You're
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: not gonna talk to my lady.
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: Friend like that.
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: We didn't come here for no funny business. We came
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: to sit here and drink beer and listen to you
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: play a mandolin, and not have a freaking orgy in here.
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: Something came up to the effect that he must be
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: a queer or something. So this guy caused him a faggot.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: He tells me to get the hell out of there,
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: and if there's not going to be a party, get.
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: The hell out of the place. I believe is the
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: way he said it.
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: And as I turned to walk towards the door and
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: told the woman with me, come on, woman, let's go,
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: he pulled a rifle out of the closet and put
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: around in the chamber and pointed it at me and
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: he said, leave mother effort in so many words, that's
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: what it amounted to. As the woman and I got
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: to the door, he said, and I quote, I should
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: make you strip, but ass snaked and let me see
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: your beautiful body.
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: Was he to me or my woman? I don't know.
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: I like to think I got a beautiful body. Would
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: you hold it against me?
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: He left the rifle inside the room and came outside
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: and told us to get back into goddamn car and I'll.
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: Take you back to your car. So, after all that and.
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: Having a rifle pulled on him, they're gonna get back
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: in this dude's car and he's gonna take them back
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: to their car. Like that's the most awkward ride in
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: the world.
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: It's gotta be yeah.
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: When we got back to the parking lot where we
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: had previously left my car, after some more conversation to
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: the effect that I didn't appreciate what he had done,
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: and this and.
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: That, then he pulled a pistol.
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: I don't know where it came from, whether from his
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: pocket or from the seat of the car on the left,
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: but he had a pistol on his left hand. We
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: were still in his car as we were about to
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: get out, and he said, no, no, sit still, and
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: the woman put her hand on the barrel of the
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: gun and told.
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: Him point it the other way. God damn, I'm scared.
• 39:33
  Speaker 5: And I said to her, honey, let's go, and I
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: opened the car door.
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: We got out of the car and walked over to
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: our car, which is about six feet away from his
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: car about at the time, and he drove off in
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: his car, and the woman and I both got the
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: Lacey's plate number, and we each repeated it loud to
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: each other. I continued to repeat the number until we
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: got in my car, and the woman wrote down the
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: number on the back of a check book that was
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: lying on the dash of my car.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Well.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: The check book was laid on the dash of her car.
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, page two. That was the last I
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: saw of him. The man, to the best of my recollection,
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: was approximately five foot aged inches tall, approximately one hundred
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: and seventy five pounds, with dark hair, normal complexion, about thirty.
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: Didn't appear to be a learned person that is too
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: well educated, and did not appear to be ignorant by
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: any means, so averaging every way.
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: Apparently.
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: The woman friend says that he had real wavy black
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: hair and was, in her opinion, five point ten and
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: one sixty five and about thirty. The best I can
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: describe the rifle. It appeared to be well kept, a
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: deer rifle or something. I don't know too much about guns.
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: I know it was not a twenty two. I know
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: it was a larger caliber gun. Perhaps in my judgment
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: of three oh three that would be my guess what.
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: It would be. It had a chrome appearance about it. Somewhere.
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: I heard him cock.
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: The pistol as he told us to sit still, and
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: I got a very dim look at the gun. It
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: seemed a long barrel like a police officer normally carries.
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: We both agreed it was a light green car, a
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: new model somewhat on the smaller side, like the appearance
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: of a Chevy two. She says it was extremely light green.
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: The license number on the car was CD one five
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: eighty three, Texas. After the tragic incidents that have occurred
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: in Dallas on this date, upon hearing the killing of
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: the police officer, I thought about the incidents related above,
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: about the man with a rifle on the car, and
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: for these reasons, I decided to come forward and give
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: you the information contained herein to the proper authorities, for
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: whatever value it may have. So silly, Jesse James Williams
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: the third.
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: Now the ironic part about all this, Joe, that's why
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: am I reading this? Well, the license plate comes back too.
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: He'll be out here, honest, Joe, Wow, No, I'm lying.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: I have no idea the license plate comes back to.
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: I don't know who came back. Maybe Donald Wayne House.
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: I don't know who the lecens plate comes back to.
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: He's the only guy driving a green car that got
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: arrested that day.
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: It's a very weird story that I came across that
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: I just had to share with you because I thoroughly
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: enjoyed reading It has absolutely nothing to do with honest Joe,
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: But damn is it a good story?
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: It is? Yes, And my just issue with the story,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: as I kind of alluded to before, as she said,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: I was more kind of plastered than the others. I
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: can't remember the dude's name, but I don't know the license.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: I mean how often like if you're well, Remember they.
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: Were repeating it back and forth to each other as
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: the guys driving away after they finally got out of
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: the car. So they're saying that CD one five eight three,
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: CDI one five A three, CD one five A three,
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: CD one five eight three until they got back into
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: Coretti down on something.
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: Allegedly. We know how games the telephone can go. Joe
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: so close.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: But the interesting part about this, Rob is that correct
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong? The affid David was on the
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: twenty second right.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they came forward the day of the assassination with
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: that story, right, So.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: It's not like they're coming out in nineteen you know,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: ninety three.
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: Sounds a lot like a James Files story to me.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: But interesting that it was they came forward that day,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: or she did, or he did, or they both did. Yeah,
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: that's that's the part that makes me think. Listen, there's
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: always like some truth and some lies to all these stories,
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: some embellishment. There might be some truth to whatever SKUFFUZI
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: was happening there? And did they go back and drink?
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Were they just trying to party in a hotel room?
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: And doesn't have anything to do with anything, right, But
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: they thought it did. And I guess the found it
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: intriguing enough to at least make a report on it.
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, it could have been.
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: It could have been, you know, one of these gunboat
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: cowboys hiding out in an hotel the night before the assassination,
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: you know, with a rifle, sad to you know, have
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: some fun a little. Yeah, all right, I got one
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: more thing for you, Joe, and than I'm gonna turn
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: it over to you, sir. Now, I just want to
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: show everybody, have you ever been to the deep Ellum
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: neighborhood in Dallas?
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: When you were there? Did you ever go down there?
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: I don't think I did.
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: I was no, it is, at least now, or at
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: least when I went. It was a very beautiful section
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: of town, very ethnic, very colorful. I remember, big giant
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: murals painted everywhere, Lots of restaurants, lots of stores.
• 45:38
  Speaker 5: Deep Elum.
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: I got those deep elm bloues. You heard that song, right,
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: it's about this neighborhood. So here is what Honest Joe's
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: pawn shop look like.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Here we go. You're taking another one from me.
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: Now look at this shit.
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: There's a reason I'm showing you this, right because you
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: can imagine what his freaking car look like, right right.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: That was my first observation when I saw this. I
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: was like, dude loves to put himself out there. Yeah,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: it loves to advertise.
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: And I'm sure he would have no problems selling a
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: space on the wall to anybody that wanted to. You know,
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: I don't know who the loan Ranger is. You know,
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: I don't know who did did Jeans?
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: What does that say?
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: Did Jeans came to the end of his search at
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: Honest Joe's, the loan Ranger, Joe's Gun and Lock Shop.
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: Well now paid ten cents for I don't know what
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: that is.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Something sending.
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: Who knows he buys everything.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: And buying earth sending and buying by check or something
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: in paying by check.
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Clubs, TVs, radios, outboard motors, boats, all kinds of machinery, right,
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: I mean, so.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Dude, and we know, we know Jack Ruby obviously love
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: to advertise as well, so you could envisit the scenario
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: where maybe he took out an ad on his club,
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: if on the side of the car or whatever. I
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: don't know, but you could obviously see. I mean, I
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: don't even know. These days, you can't even get a
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: permit for this type of shit, right, But yeah, that
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: is it. That is overboard, as we say.
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: Right now, I could not Joe find a real picture,
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: and I know I've seen one before, but I just
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: could not find it again. I mean I found where
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: it was, but it has since been missing from the
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: ed form.
• 48:16
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: It was one of these image links to somewhere that
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: doesn't exist anymore, posted by James Richards ironically enough.
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: But so I had ai.
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: I put in a description, a very vague one actually, uh,
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: and it spit.
• 48:33
  Speaker 5: This out, okay. I said, give me a nineteen fifties
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: era ed.
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: Sel station wagon with ads plastered all over it for
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: an honest Joe's pawn shop and a fifty cow mounted
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: on the roof. That's all I said. I wanted, you know,
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: just to see what it would give me. And this
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: was fucking good from the get go.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: I was like, that is perfect, man, Yeah, it perfect.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: And there was cardboard things on the back signs if.
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: You will, yeah, like in the windows.
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: So were you able Were you able to find an
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: actual picture of this Cafuza's vehicle?
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: No?
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: I tried to, and I know I've seen pictures of
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: it before. That's the thing that was killing me, and
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: I just could not find him again. Like I said,
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: I tracked down to the to the form and James
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: Richards had posted one and the link is dead because
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: whatever site he was hosting his photos.
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: On or is gone now, which is a shame, but
• 49:38
  Speaker 5: uh that's the best we got.
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: But you can imagine from the way that his shop looked,
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: what the car looked like, Okay, right over the top, right,
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: very very memorable, not forgettable. Like when you see this
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: thing coming down the street, you know.
• 49:54
  Speaker 5: Exactly what the fuck it is. Right.
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: So we have all of this eyewitnessed, different people's testimony
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: that they see, honest, Joe's freaking shit parked beside the
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: school book depository the morning of the assassination. Somebody's getting
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: out of it with a five foot by six to
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: eight inch wide package, which.
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: Sure sounds like a rifle bule.
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: Better than a two foot one, and it's odd, man like,
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: how do you make this up?
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: Oh? But back to Deep Ellen for a second. I
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: have a good story.
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: So we're in Dallas in twenty nineteen, right, and at
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: the time, me and my wife thought it would be
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: a good idea to travel to Deep Eleum for lunch.
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: Via scooter.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Stop it.
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: Not lying, bro.
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: If I'm lying, I'm dying. I'm telling you so.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Any scars from that trip.
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: No, I didn't fall, amazingly enough.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Only emotional ones.
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: Amazingly enough, I did not fall. But it's not like
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: Deep Elems very close to Dallas.
• 51:12
  Speaker 5: I mean it's.
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: It felt like it was three miles away. That is
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: what it felt like on my body.
• 51:19
  Speaker 5: Now. I don't know how far it was away.
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: Probably a scooter in a strange city that you're not
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: familiar with, that's a little hilly and a little poth holy,
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: and you're not really sure of the scooter laws in
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: the city, whether you're in the street or the sidewalk
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: or you know, what's going on.
• 51:40
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: I just had son of a bitch wide open, going
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: like thirty miles an hour through through the streets of
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: Dallas to Deep Elem. It was rough, man, you're preaching
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: to the choir bro. The ankles hurt like a bitch after.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: That, and that was It's like, I'm pretty sure that
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: was before because I think the scooter I crashed on
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: like once you went on the sidewalk like kind of
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: turned off, and that's why I kind of jerked me
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: and threw me off the scooter.
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, in twenty nineteen, that's like the beginning of the
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: scooter technology where they weren't very comfortable, like no suspension whatsoever.
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: So everything you hit, it was like it racked your
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: whole body, you know, like, oh Jesus, were you on.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: The same scooter or different scooters?
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: We were on the same scooters, okay, I mean we
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: were together, but we were on the same brand of scooter. Okay, okay,
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: Like I had my own, she had her.
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: Own, got it? Yeah, leg.
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: Horrible, horrible memories memories, but yeah, Deep Ellen Baby and
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: uh Joe lead us not into temptation with more honest
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: Joe next and figures if you will, but the lover
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: Us from Evil, deliver.
• 53:08
  Speaker 5: Us from Deep Ellum and strange motel rooms all right.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: Well, you can put it up as we uh as
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: we look at honest Joe himself, honestkfuza.
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: And note the Cuban in the background. Yeah, he has
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: his own personal Cuban exile that.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Is honestly like the most interesting part of me. But
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: dudes carrying either a thirty or fifty cowl. I think
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: it might be thirty, but whatever. Yeah, it's a big
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: caliber gun. And this is Ruben, honest Joe Goldstein was
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: born in nineteen oh eight in New York, New York City, and.
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: His name was Ruben right, right, which could be shortened
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: to Ruby.
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: Right, it could be Yeah, so maybe.
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: That's what the chick saw on his car, like Ruby Goldstein.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: That's a really good point actually.
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: And she's just thinking Rubenstein and Goldstein in her mind,
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: and she's sitting now says that, well, the car said
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: Jack Ruby when it might have just said Ruby Goldstein.
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: She's thinking Rubenstein, and then she conflates it in her mind
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: to be Jack Ruby, right, especially.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: If it's possibly going by quick oruse. She just gets
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: a quick glance and she's going for a few letters,
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: but also a devil's advocate. You could see Ruby advertising
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: obviously he was at the Dallas Morning News that morning.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Right of the twenty second you can see him also
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: advertising with a fellow Jewish person. And now we are
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: not saying Israel did it, so back up. But he
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: died at sixty four, he was just a kid, and
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: buried in Dallas, Texas at the Sheriff Israel Memorial Park,
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: which I'm guessing is a Jewish cemetery. But that's just
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: a guess.
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: Any minute, you say he died in sixty four, Oh no, at.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Age sixty four seventy two, I believe, yeah, yeah, And
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: I have a newspaper article at the end of my
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: power point here. Let me bring this up because I
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: have this.
• 55:41
  Speaker 7: On my screen.
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: Before you go to before you go anywhere, go back, Okay,
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: notice the address in the upper left.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Corner two five two four Elm.
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so now I know the book depository is what
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: four eleven.
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: Elm Street, I believe, So don't quote me on.
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: So if you're going way the hell down Elm Street
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: to Deep Ellum, right, and you know we're talking blocks
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: and twenty blocks away is where you're gonna find Honest
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: Joe's Pawn Shop just hot on Elm Street and go
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: that way on a scooter.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And you can kind of see in the
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: background all the what's the word shit, yeah, ship the
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: antiques like seems like it would buy or sell anything.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: And you got to wonder what other skuffuz or he
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: was into. I do not exactly know.
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: But.
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: Well, fine, I've heard he actually sold Ah, I'm sure
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: military surplus gear and also police uniforms.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Right who said this? Someone said I want to give
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: this personal credit. In the chat, someone said, weren't they
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: selling police uniforms there? And yeah, I mean I can't
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: find it, but.
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: Two miles from Deally Plaza. It's a detail. It's a
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: long two miles on a scooter, let me tell you, bro.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: Right, But yeah, I mean you can imagine definitely a
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: scenario where they're selling you know, guns and and buying
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: guns and police uniforms or whatever. Dude obviously is advertising hard.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: I mean you can even see in this picture how
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: how many signs are in this very small shot?
• 58:10
  Speaker 5: Ye? How about to drink?
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: Is it just you know, you walking by? You just
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: want to stop and look, you know, like Jesus, what
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: I fucking miss?
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: I would stop and look?
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: Hell, yeah, you never know what you're gonna find in
• 58:20
  Speaker 5: a shop like that.
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: Right, let's stop look a gold mine.
• 58:28
  Speaker 5: So kickers would have had a heart on walking through
• 58:31
  Speaker 5: this guy's shop.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: And was this the exact one you showed or is
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: this some more?
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: Now this looks like an older one.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: This looks like an older one. But you can see
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: this's the same theme if you will, right, Yeah, you
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: can't miss it if you're driving by in a scooter.
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: Right, this will be like a building that everybody in
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: Dallas new, right, right, So if you see this truck
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: that looks just like this building anywhere in town, you're
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: gonna be like, that's honest, Joe. You know, even if
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: you didn't see the name on it, you'd be like,
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: damn right, Like that's gotta be honest, Joe's truck.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: This guy, man, what a character, which again I'm just
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: going to keep harping back to this makes me think, like,
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: what's this skafooza just driving around the Mortar k route
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: and like people knew him and some witnesses said, oh,
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: we sold this truck or was there something more sinister
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: to that?
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: And but I could also see this guy with a
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: pile of defunct manly R. Karkan who's in the back
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: room somewhere, you know what I.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: Mean, right, or even Hammo as well?
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: Hold on, Joe, Oh what then this picture? Okay, I
• 59:59
  Speaker 5: thought it was part of the building.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: But if you look off the sidewalk, is that the
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: fucking edsel right there?
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 5: Wait?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: Wait, which part of the building right.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 5: In front of the black guy on the sidewalk?
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Or is there a black guy on the sidewalk on
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: the right.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, look look right in front of him, there's a
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: fucking car parked in there.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that that's probably.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 5: I thought it was part of the building, but it
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 5: looks You're right.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: I thought someone was pawning the car. I guarantee you.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: I guarantee you that was exactly the car. I mean,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: I can't guarantee it, but you know what I mean,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: I would bet heavily on it.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: Wow, Wow, it blended in it camouflaged very nicely with
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: the building.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: But then again, to go back to my kind of
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: devil's advocate point, if you were doing something sinister, why
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: drive that car with your name plastered over every thing
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: to it? But we'll get there. We have some more
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: statements to go over here. But yeah, that's that's a
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: really good observation. I saw it, but I didn't put
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: two and two together.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: I just thought it was part of the building. I
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 4: didn't even look too glad. I was looking at the
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: black truck over here in front of the building. But
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: it doesn't have anything to want it. But this could
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: be before they modified it, you know, right, because doing
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: something in the street, like they're painting signs or something
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 4: on the street. You see that guy on the street
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: on his knees. Yeah, and it looks like they're kind
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: of have a big sign they're painting or something.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it almost looks like a little ramp over something.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: Well, they had to drive the car up over the
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: sidewalk to get it in that nook or whatever that is, right, Yeah.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know what he's doing, but yeah, that's a
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: good point. He's definitely on his knees working on something.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 5: Brought as Joe to come out and give him a hand.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: He's sitting there with this thirty or fifty cows is
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: still probably smoking SIGs crushing it. Likely you did this
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: still for me. Let's go to missus Jean law Less Hill,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: Miss Geen and hell who of course, was with Mariann Mormon,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: and this is an FBI document on three seventeen March seventeenth,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: sixty four, and we're gonna go in chronological order like
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: we'd like to hear telephonically advised that she and a friend,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: Mary Mormond, was We're in the Vicinity of Maine in
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: Houston on November twenty second for approximately one and one
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: and a half hours before the arrival of President JFK
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: and his party. Well, waiting for the mortar Kate to arrive.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: At this location, Miss Hill and Marianne walked around the
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: parkway area near the TSBD in attempts to determine the
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: best antage spot for taking photographs of the president. Miss
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: Hill said she recalls talking to a un uniformed policeman. Yes,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: wait what what? Well?
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: Uninformed on uniformed policeman in uniform.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, reading is hard for me of the DPD on
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: the sidewalk near the main entrance of the TSPD. While
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: conversing with the policeman, Miss Hill noticed an automobile circling
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: the area. The windows of the vehicle were covered with
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: cardboard and the name Honest Joe's Pawnshop was painted on
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: the side of the car. Miss missus Hill made a
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: remark about the automobile, and the policeman told her that
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: the driver had permission to drive in the area.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: Now hang on before you go anywhere. Yeah, go back
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: up to the top. Here we see that. She says,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: about one and a half hours before the president comes.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: This would be Joe about ten thirty or eleven, which
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: corroborates the other eyewitnesses testimony about this car cruising around
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 4: Dally Plaza. Right, yes, more corroboration. Yes, now it's team
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: that job. Yes, can we believe anything she says? I
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: don't know, but again more corroboration.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Right, And this is not like you know, Agen.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: Well, all these people aren't just pulling honest Joe's out
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: of their asshole for no reason, right right right.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: It was probably like a city, a household name if
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: you will, you know, so like people in Dallas would
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: have known, Oh, there's the Honest Show's trunck, right, palm
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: shot trunk.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 5: It's got the zip truck stopped there, stop.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: Scott the Atlantic. Jamberini will find you. She will hunt you,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: and she will find you.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: So this is the seventeenth It might have been taken
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: on the sixteenth. I don't have the bottom part of it.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: Oh man, let's see here. In an effort to identify
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: this is March eighteenth, I believe the aid is kind
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: of hard to raid sixty four. In an effort to
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: identify the Miss Hill, a Dallas woman who were four
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: to six shots at the time of the assassination, we've
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: got over this of John jfk at Dallas, Texas, with
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: whom Mark Lane, a New York attorney, had a taped
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: telephone conversation made on February eighteenth, sixty four. The following
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: interview was conducted by special agents of the FBI on
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: March thirteenth, sixty four. Miss Jean Lolis Hill advised she
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: said a friend, Mary and Mormon were in the vicinity
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: of Man in Houston Streets on November twenty second, sixty
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: three for approximately one and a half hours before the arrival.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: You're right on your time frame, rob of President Kennedy's party.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: While waiting for the mortarcade and to arrive at this location,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: they looked around the Parkway area near the TSBD building
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: and attempts to determine the best vanned spot. It's kind
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: of like the same wording for taking photographs of the president.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: Miss Hill said she.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 7: Recalls talking to a.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: Uniformed here, you got a boy I see on and
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: I just start with that I'm dyslexic, likely a policeman
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: of the DPD on the sidewalk near the main entrance
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: of the TSBD building. While conversing with the policeman, Miss
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Hill noticed an automobile circling the area. The window of
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: the vehicle was covered with cardboard. We've heard this already.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: Cardboard and the name Annie Jones Pawn Shop was painted
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: on the side of the car. So not only the cardboard,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: but the side of the car, which, as we just
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: showed you, if you're viewing this podcast visually, you would not.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 5: Doubt.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: Miss Hill made a remark about the automobile, and the
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: policeman told her her driver had permission to drive in
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: the area. Just before the mortarcade appeared, Miss Mary Anne
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: Mormon and Miss Hill were standing in the lawn area
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: between Maine and Elm Streets, opposite the main entrance of
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: the TSBD building. Miss Mormon was taking photographs of the
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: Marcada as that came to view and with the car occupied,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: President Kennedy passing missus Sill. She recalls shouting, hey, hey, hey.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: She stated President Kennedy was looking for president looking down
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: when she shouted. So, of course, I think the throat
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: shot had already kind of happened by then and turned
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: to look. And that is Commission Exhibit two five eight
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: to two. I didn't want to go too much into
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: that because I want to go to Ruby Goldstein, honest.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: Show a lot of he's been He's been putting in
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 4: a lot of crazy things here, but I want to
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: hear what he has to say for his Yeah.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: Well, the FBI finally in March, almost into March, decided
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: to interview this skafuza and he was interviewed at his
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: place of business, hopefully not with thirty or fifty gallon
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: his lap. Twenty five, twenty four Elm Street, Dallas, Texas.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: Goldstein advised on the morning of November twenty second, he
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: was driving an old Edsel Sedan in the vicinity of
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: the TSBD building. Can you rob, as I continue reading this,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: can you google a picture of an ed s L Sedan. Yeah,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: it's called an Edsel Edsel and see if we could.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: Well, that's what I use I put into the AI
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: to get the version of the but yeah, the picture
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: for reference, I do have an extra hone.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: On okay, but but it's probably what you pointed out.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: What you pointed out in the picture of the building, right,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: that was in kind of the car port, if you will.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: Well it could have been. We just saw the ass
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 4: end of it. But I'll show you what one looks
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: like without all the shit all over.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: He stated that the car was brightly painted and carried
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: slogans advertising his pawn shop. Goldstein said that the police
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: permitted him to drive on the route used by JFK's murtarcade.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: He stated, however, he was parked on Pacific Avenue, one
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: block from the parade route when JFK was shot. He
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: said a television technician from a Dallas television station shouted
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: that someone had shot the president. Goldstein said that he
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: does not know Lee Harvey Oswalt and cannot recall having
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: seen him at any time. He stated that Jack Ruby
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: purchased some equipment from him a few years ago, which,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: let me just stop there being a Dallas mainstay, if
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: you will. I don't find that extremely suspicious, you know,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: as we go across all these people in Dallas, like
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: everyone knew Jack Ruby in some way.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 5: So and real quick, here's your insel.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: I don't go back to you.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: So you can just imagine it with a fifty cow
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: mant it on top and the windows boarded up and
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: ship all over it.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 5: Are you speechless?
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: No, it's not shared on the screen yet. Waiting, Sorry,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: it's not No, you have to take downline. Yeah, there
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: you go. Okay, I.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 7: Could see it.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 5: I think the ghost car, you know.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks a little different. Let's go go back
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: to mine. Can you put mine back up? I'm gonna
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: go back to that. That picture in front of honest
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: shows Uh, let's see.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 5: This is what back into a van? Right?
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 8: It doesn't look like the same to me. To me, no,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 8: to the layman's eye, if you will, it looks.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 5: Like a delivery vans today and whatever. I don't know.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know either.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 5: Then it's we'll make a van in the nineteen fifties.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: Yep, it could have been or this ah, or they
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: could have been mistaken. Wait, hold on, who said that?
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: Who's the steel.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 4: Ruben causes today? In and not a station wagon? But
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: I don't know what's odd to me? Is why in
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: the hell the police would give this guy permission to
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: drive on the parade route with a fifty caliber mounted
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 4: on top of it. I mean, that's just dumb right.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: Well, uh, you know, I I couldn't find that much
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: on the fifty cow other than like here's eh, so
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure how reliable that is if I'm going
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: to be completely honest.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't think that something somebody would just make
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: up it had a fifty kl'mounted on top.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: Of it, and you have a picture of the dude
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: with a thirty or fifty col whatever.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I could leave it.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: I could too. I just couldn't find any like reliable
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: documentation on it, as I guess because I started for it.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: I didn't search like for like two days for it,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: but I did a brief search, and I couldn't find
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: anything that I felt comfortable kind of sharing. So maybe
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: we'll follow up on that. I remember solely, but he
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: didn't know. However, he did purchase some equipment. Ruby did
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: purchase some equipment from him a few years ago. He
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: is not a personal friend of Ruby and has no
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: other business dealings with him since that time, And of
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: course we don't know exactly what that time is a
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: few years ago, you would think, like nineteen sixty if
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: you believe him at his word, which would be you know,
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: make up your own mind. Goldstein stated he considered the
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: assassination of JFK a most tragic happening. He could offer
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: no further information of value.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, the old I don't know that guy, and I
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 5: don't know nothing.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: End of story.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 4: Like to random Jews in the middle of Dallas, wouldn't
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: know each other, but do business together, but you really
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 4: not know each other, right.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: And again, I wouldn't blame Goldstein for trying to like
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: distance himself from Ruby at that point. You're talking March
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: of sixty four, almost April, So who knows? I found
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: an interesting article in the fourth decade. And do you
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: know this guy Rob what's his name? You know all
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: these people?
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 5: I don't Greg Doyle, Yeah.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: Greg Doyle, What can you tell me about him?
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 5: Not a damn thing.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: I attempted to outline some information relating to Rubin honest
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: Joe Goldstein and his appearance at the JFK assassination scene
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: and the scene of Oswalt's shooting. Are they talking about
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: the TSBD here?
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 5: Well, somebody said that they saw it behind.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: Like the concrete thing there on the grass, you know,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: like where where we're standing. You know how Illm Street
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 4: runs down in behind that, Yeah, to the road yard
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 4: parking lot. H somebody said that they saw it back
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 4: there at the time of the assassinations.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know, man, right, I don't know either. I mean,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: I just I don't know. I don't know. I tend
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: to think that this dude just loved advertising. Just looking
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: at his place and his cars and everything. So having
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: him drive around and having him be kind of a
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: mainstay in Dallas and probably knowing some police officers that
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: maybe came to pawn some ship that he could have
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: had some access in some way. They'll be like, all right,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: you're you're okay to like kind of drive around a
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: little before or whatever. I don't know.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 4: Well, I think there was something too with the Dallas
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 4: and Joe Cody who gave Ruby his handgun that he
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 4: shot as well with, and that maybe he bought it
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 4: in honest Joe's pawn shop.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 5: I don't know. There's all kinds of crazy stories out there.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Joe Cody, I'm gonna follow up on that for
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: members only. Part two and if you're not a member,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: guys become. We have a lot of fun over there
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: on Wednesday nights.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 5: Did a banger on this pants Wednesday night.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: I noted gold Seine's apparent relationship to Jack Ruby and
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: four Dallas law enforcement officers with ties to the JFK
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: assassination or its investigation in one way or the other one.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: I'd like to update some research I've done as well
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: as outside outlined some confusion regarding Honest Joe's presence in
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: Daley Plaza on no Vember twenty second. I can't completely
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: clear up the confusion at this point, but I can
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: detail what is known. Gene Hill, interviewed on March thirteen,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: sixty four, we just read that told the FBI she
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: noticed an automobile which on the name Honest Show's Pawn
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: Shop painted on the side and windows covered with cardboards
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: circling the area prior to the assassination. Later in the report,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: the vehicle is labeled a car. In recent years, it
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: appears Missus Hill has called the vehicle a van Josiah
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: Thompson labeled in a station wagon. I labeled the vehicle
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: a truck in my article support for the subscription comes
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: from a reader who grew up in Dallas and who
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: actually had been in Honest Show's pawn shop and also
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: recalls Honest Joe the vehicle, though he does not know
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: if it was the same one seen at the day
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: of the assassination. He remembered a white panel truck with
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: large letters painted on proclaiming Honest Show's pawn Shop. He
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: also recalls him model thirty caliber air cooled machine gun
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: bolted to the outside. So yeah, I mean, that would
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: just be another extremely ridiculous example of.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 5: The lack of ranger.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: If true, that would be crazy.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: I don't think JFK was shot by a thirty or
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: fifty cow, but it would just be a complete lapse
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: of security, right. There was also a rendering of a
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: masked man wearing a cowboy hat and brandishing a handgun.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: This desperado was labeled the lone Arranger Inside Honest Jones.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 5: Very cunning linguist, I'll tell you that.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Inside Honest Jos, the reader recalled the famous picture
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: of Jack Ruby adorn on both sides by strippers hanging
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: on the wall. The reader visited the store on several occasions,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: so he's saying picture of Jack Ruby's was hanging out
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: on his shows.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah inside honest, Joe, the reader recalls the famous picture
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 4: of Jack Ruby born on both sides by strippers, hanging
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: on the wall.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: Right, And we've seen that picture of course before, right,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: so you gotta wonder.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 4: Says it was in the mid to late sixties, which
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 4: is after the assassination, which somebody might have came in
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 4: and sold him a picture and he thought it was cool.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 5: And hung it on the wall.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 5: Who knows, right, or maybe he bought it because he
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 5: knew the guy. I don't know.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: The other assassination witness assassination seeing witness aj Milliken also
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: labeled the vehicle a truck instead it was stopped at
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: the book depository before the assassination. I contacted the Plumbers
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: Union in Dallas in hopes of interviewing mister Milliken, who
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: the report identified as a plumber, but they for me
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: he had passed away some time ago. Rubin Goldstein himself
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: seems to have contributed to the confusion, both in life
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: and in death. On the same day as the Hill interview,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: the FBI sought to interview Goldstein again. We just read
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: both those The skimpy report filed on this interview consists
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: of less than half a page as far as we know.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: But Goldstein claimed to be driving an old Etzel sedan
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: in the vicinity of the book Depository on the morning
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: of November twenty second. At the time of the assassination.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: He claimed to have been parked on Pacific, a block away,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: you know, when the television technician shouted the news out.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: Looking at the map of de la Plaza, it seems
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: possible gold Scene could have driven down behind the book
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: Depository to the parking lot behind the grassy knoll, accounting
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: for the Hill and Milliken sightings, and then swung around
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: up to Pacific Avenue. It is established in my last
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: article he was probably friendly with Jack Faulkner, a policeman
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: on the corner of Houston and Elton that day. I'll
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: have to look up some of his statements for part too.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: Then there is the matter of gold Scene's obituary. Here
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: we go. He was quote among the person writing in
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: the motorcade, and again it's an obituary.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: So.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: Take of it what you will. Obviously, he didn't write
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: his own obituary, obviously, but he must have relayed this
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: information to someone over the years. So is what he
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: told the FBI about being parked quote a few blocks
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: away end quote a lie? Or does he have a
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: creative definition of riding in the motorcade? Perhaps his obituary
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: was just post facta boastful exaggeration. I'll get your thoughts
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: on that, Rob, and then I'll give your mind.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 5: All right, you sent me years and I'll say you mine.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: That's totally fair, Okay. I think it's very plausible the
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: Skafuza was driving around in the area. I don't think
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: it's even plausible that he was anywhere near the motorcade.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: And I think he was probably like circling the outer
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: area for advertisement purposes or whatever around around them, right
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: or before. Then again, with someone who likes to advertise
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: as much as he does, it would make no sense
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: if you're part of the plot to advertise that.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 5: No, but.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 4: I mean you can see, you know, we have these
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 4: two two Jewish guys in Dallas at the time, right
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 4: Ruby and uh Gold, Yeah, who love to advertise and
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 4: take advantage of big crowd of people to hand their
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 4: cards out to or drive their rolling billboards around.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 4: Hey, Free free publicity, Joe you know type of thing. Right,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 4: they're self self publicizing folks, And I'm not saying, you know,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 4: it's just a strictly Jewish thing back then. I'm sure
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 4: lots of people did it. But you know, the thing
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 4: that gets me is there was a lot of different
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 4: people that saw this vehicle around Daily Plaza at different times.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 5: They all can't be mistaken.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 4: It's just too weird to just pull out a thin
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 4: air type of thing, right, right.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: No, I believe it was there, Yeah, but.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 4: Because there was a lot of people gathering. I don't
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: think there was a lot of people gathering as early
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 4: as ten thirty in Delly Plaza for a motor kid
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 4: that ain't come in for another two hours, you know
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 4: what I mean.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: Well, it was also late as well.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, but only like a half an hour, So
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 4: I don't think it wouldn't have been like super crowded
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 4: at ten thirty or eleven. I don't think, right, it.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't have been like the ideal time. But you're also
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: not going to get you know, to pull your you
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: know a little there.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 4: We're talking around the Depository specifically, which is basically the
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 4: last leg of the parade through Dallas after it goes
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 4: under that underpass, They're done, They're on the way to
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 4: the trademarks for the luncheon, right, they're they're they're they're
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 4: getting it after the underpass, right. And you even see
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 4: how sparsely populated with people that the grassy area between
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 4: Elm Street and Main Street was.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 4: There wasn't that many people in that grassy middle section there, right,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 4: And there wasn't even a lot of people on the
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 4: other side of Elm Street in front of the grassy. No,
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 4: it was very sparse, you know, not a lot of people.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 4: A lot of peo people was up on Houston Street
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 4: right and at the beginning of Elm Street, and it
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 4: kind of tapered off after the depository, you know, to
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 4: get more sparsely populated, if you will.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But my question is like, were they able to
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: go say back more through the pre route right and
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: earlier segments of it, or is this the place they just.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 4: Well look, nobody else said said that they saw this
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 4: thing earlier, and you would think, you know, this is
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 4: something people would say if they especially if they weren't familiar,
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 4: why we saw this crazy looking car driving through with
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 4: a gun mounted on it, you know, like, what is
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 4: that about right. But the only people we have is
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 4: basically in Deally Plaza saying things right right. And the
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 4: weird part of it is is that it was parked.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 4: Somebody got out and handed a package five feet long
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 4: six to eight inches wide and went into the depository
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 4: with it. And then she sees a guy with a
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 4: hat looking around in between boxes on the sixth floor.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 4: Before the assassination, she sees somebody that's definitely dark complexed
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 4: and somebody who's definitely not dark complexed, right, both on
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 4: that flame floor.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: What's your if you remember the picture we showed of
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: mister Goldstein and the possible Cuban behind him.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 4: Or was this Bonnie Ray, Williams and Oswald both on
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 4: the sixth floor at the same time, and Bonnie Ray's
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 4: been lying about Oswald being on the sixth floor the
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 4: whole time.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know either.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 5: I'm going to shoot him, Bonnie. I'm gonna shoot him.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna shooting Bonnie. Finish up.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 4: Yon Williams better hurry it. Uh, she's going down here
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 4: in a second. So unless you want to be up here,
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 4: let's start shooting.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 5: You better go on somewhere else. Bonnie. Everybody's down to
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 5: the fifth floor. I don't know who knows who had it?
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 5: Wasn't Bonnie or Oswald. I don't know. It's all crazy.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just looking through some comments. Can you what
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: what does this mean? Tiny someone in the crowd gave
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: lamb chop to Jackie to give to Caroline with a puppet.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: Oh oh all right, right right, yes, yes, okay, I
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: remember that. I didn't know that name was.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 5: Caryl Channing, who was like a female comedian. She used
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 5: this lamb chop puppet in her act back in the day.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 5: And yes, I'm dating myself here. No, Joey don't not knowing.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: Have no idea?
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 5: What tell you? I'll give you a pass on this one.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 5: I appreciate that's old people. Uh trivia?
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: All right, all right, you could put it back up.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: I have just a couple more slides and then an
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: article after his death. Let's see where it was. I
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: let me pull my tabs back up.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: Clearly. More disturbing in the FBI report is a statement
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: Gold seems that he was quote not a personal friend
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: of Jack Ruby unquote. This flies in the face of
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: statements by secret serviceman for Sorrels and according to Sorels,
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: Ruby himself, and it is footnoted. Additionally, Goldstein was the
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: appraiser of Ruby's estate. Now, I don't know if that's
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: true because I did not find that yet, and maybe
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: we'll follow up onto some Wednesday, Rob. But if that
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: is true, that's a problem.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 5: That's a problem.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: That would be a problem.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 4: Who would trust more than a mother Jewish brother to
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 4: take care of your state right after facing life in prison?
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: Right? So I'm gonna look into this.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 4: He definitely didn't the point George Senata, keep you goddamn
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 4: hands off my baby oil in said of a bit.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, God had a funny comment about baby oil, of course,
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: referenced to Diddy. So unless Goldstein somehow became more friendly
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: with Ruby after the FBI interview of March twentieth, nineteen
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: sixty four, a period of time in which Ruby was
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: in jail, and appears's statement was not truthful. Hold on,
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: let me read this again. Okay. The statement that he
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: wasn't a personal friend of Jack Ruby was not truthful.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: I have mentioned in my previous article Goldstein's connections to
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: four Dallas area law enforcement officials with some connection to
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: the case and as possible suspiciousness. We're talking about Lom Lewis,
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: Jack Falker, Faulkner, Charles Dougherty and KP. Knight. I did
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: not at the time mention Goldstein's connection to a Ruby
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: associate with at least sometimes the assassination. The name Harmon Schweps.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: Schweps appears as a pallbearer at the funeral of Goldstein.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: Harmon Schwepps was interviewed by the FBI IT on December seventh,
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: sixty three, which is way before the other guys were
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: interviewed by the way due to connections to Ruby, and
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: the report filed on the interview was revealed that Schwepps
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: shared the same attorney with Ruby Stanley Kaufman, through whom
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: he had met Ruby in about nineteen fifty five. Interestingly,
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: Ruby visited the building which hals Cosman's Kaufman's office the
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: day before the assassination, which would have been the twenty first.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: Schweps was close enough to Ruby to try and get
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: a contract for Schwep's business, Schwep's dairy ships.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 5: Sweps, there's no w in there, yeah ships, yeah.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with Ralph Paul through Ruby h the report also
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: states that Sheps felt Ruby was quote not red or
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: even pink end quote and I don't know what that means.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: And if he was, Sheps would have had nothing to
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: do with him.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 5: Tommy Bastard, Well, I.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: Think we know that. He also said he would give
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: financial assistance to Ruby if needed. I've determined Sheps to
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: be a member of a wealthy Dallas family that is
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: prominent in Dallas and involved in many Dallas area businesses.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: Sheps Dairy Incorporated was at one time one of the
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: largest milk producers in the Southwest. Businesses the family has
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: been or is involved with include supermarkets, liquor distributed, distributing, banking,
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: and professional baseball, among other things, Texas Ranges. Other members
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: of the family include brothers of Harmon Abe Mayor and
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: Julius and George Sheps, whose exact relationships to the brothers
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: is uncertain.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 5: Definitely another Jewish family.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, so I'm just gonna fast forward a little bit here,
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: and this is a Dallas Morning News article talking about
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: Ruben Goldstein's death. It's not his, oh bit. I have
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: not found that, although I didn't look that hard, but
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: Ruben Goldstein sixty one sixty one or four sixty four,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: the colorful proprietor of an Elm Street pawn shop who
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: became naturally known as Honest Joe, died here Saturday. Goldstein,
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: a native of Brooklin, had had operated the shop two
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: fy two four Elm since nineteen I believe that's thirty one,
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: where he moved to Dallas at the age of twenty three.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: The shop flourished, and Goldstein gained a reputation for being
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: the most honest pawnbroker on the pawn shop lined section
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: of Elm, hence his name. Oh Honest Joe delighted in
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: quote shooting the breeze end quote with reporters and other interviewers,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: and was the subject of articles in Dallas news papers
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: and national magazines. He would tell stories of experiences he
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: had in this business, including one famous one about the
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: man who soaked and quotations pawned his arm whenever he
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: was out of work and needed money. Right, we saw
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: the pictures of loans on his building.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 4: How even, how even, how even pawn your artificial limbs?
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 5: Sir?
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 4: If you don't need your arm while you're not working,
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 4: I give you twenty dollars for it.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: And you can see this picture like really resembles the
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: first picture, and I can go back to it if
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: you want that. Yeah, it's weird. When the customer found work,
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: he would redeem the artificial.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 5: Hey, Joe, if I got a job, I need my
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 5: arm back.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: God, I wish we were making this up, guys, ladies
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: and gents as.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 4: You honestly, honestly, it's an artificial limb. If you're working like,
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 4: why would you even need it back? If if you're
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 4: working like it wasn't like you could do anything with
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 4: it other than you look normal, halfway normal, right.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean maybe like a stub type.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 4: Of limbs weren't very functional as far as you know,
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 4: helping you do things work wise.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 5: I wouldn't think. I don't know.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: His large store occupied most of the block and was
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: cluttered almost to capacity with items which Goldstein had no
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: objection to calling junk. A lot of this stuff won't
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: ever sell, he once said, but it's good to have around.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: So he's a hoarder, right.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 4: It's pretty impressive in there, what we call the pre
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 4: crack era.
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: It gives the place of a junkie atmosphere. And I've
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: always taken a liking to junk end quote, which is
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: Goldstein's quote. The front of his store was covered with
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: signs and business h matos matos there you go, including
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: honest Joe's personal.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 5: A new T shirt alert.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: Pay attention folks, wy WCDBSYA.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 4: You can't do business sitting on your Afghanistan.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 7: Oh Man.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: Goldstein was among the person's riding in mortarcade in which
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: President JFK was shot in nineteen sixty three. Now I'm
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: not sure about that, We've already discussed it, but positive
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: he was in the area, and he was mentioned in
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: the Warrant Commission's report and then William Manchester's The Death
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: of a President. Goldstein was one of the appraisers of
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: the estate of Jack Ruby. So I mean you think
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: it was true. I mean appraising is I don't know
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: if a pawn shop owner becomes an appraiser or how
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: you pulled double duty, but whatever.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 5: I mean, he wouldn't know what shit's worth, you know.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah, I
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: could see that. I was thinking, like property appraiser.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 4: You know, I mean one, well, the case of industrial
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 4: size baby oil that's at least worth back then, at
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 4: least worth eight dollars.
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: Right, but my mind went to like the actual property appraisal,
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: not like the contents.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 4: Of the property, at least about content exactly if we
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 4: didn't own a house or an environment.
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: And right right, So I was okay, So that makes
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: sense and that kind of gives the credience the other
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 2: document right and side of the Warrant Commission and its
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: investigation of the assassination. The guns in the shooting on
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: the show's pawnshop have become something of Dallas landmark, and
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: two motion pictures or shot on location there. They included
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: Quirky Film two years ago and a nineteen fifties film
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: called My Dog Buddy. The future in the shop is uncertain.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: According to a spokesman for the family, funeral services for
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: gold Scene will be held blah blah blah blah blah.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: Gold Scene is survived by his wife, three sons, and
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: three daughters, so he definitely has some grandchildren and great
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: grandchildren abound, and it would be fascinating to talk to them.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: You can take this down wrong, yes, and just learn
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: more about this character. And maybe some stories were passed
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: down through family history. Of course that would be hearsay,
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: but that would be interesting. So this is my conclusion.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit on the fence with this one.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: I think he was driving around Daley Blosso do I
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: think he had a fifty cal in his truck? That
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: kind of came out later. Now did he have a
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: thirty or fifty? Cow? We know he did, we saw
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: the picture.
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 5: If he had a thirty, he had a fifty? Yeah?
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: Probably? Do I think he had anything to do with
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: the assassination? That is a bit of a stress. Even
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: though people saw him driving around and even driving through
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: the back parking lot. I mean that back parking lot
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: behind the pick of fence was packed, right, so it's
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: not like crazy to think that he could have been
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: back there or specific wherever. But you don't drive around
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: if you're doing something extremely nefarious with ads over your car,
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: your ads a little. What are your thoughts, sir?
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 5: I agree? I mean, is there anything to it? I
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 5: don't know.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 4: The only interesting thing to me is the allegation of
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 4: a package being taken into the book depository by h driver,
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 4: you know, seeing seeing that thing driving around daily Plaza.
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 5: Who cares?
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 4: That's what's interesting to me, right, because we have to
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 4: explain how this a rifle got into the depository in
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 4: some form or fashion, right, And we know this new
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 4: dude dealton guns, probably shady, who knows what the hell
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 4: is going on here?
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: No, I mean but and I agree, dealing with guns
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: and pawning them and buying them and selling them, it
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: could be a very likely suspect, and in that especially
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 2: if his relationship with Ruby was closer than he expressed.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: But we're also talking about one witness statement, right, Well.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 4: She was with a bunch of a coworkers looking out
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 4: the sad window. It was multiple people said they saw
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 4: that thing parked over there.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: Either or behind, but only one said that they saw
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: the that package.
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: So that's what I'm saying when we talked about witness testimony,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: and I'm not trying to it.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 4: Seems like all of the witness testimony that involved hon
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 4: as Joe's. For some reason, it's also a collection of
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 4: some of the wise, batshit crazy stories that you're gonna
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 4: hear about what happened in Daily Plaza as well, and
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 4: stuff that you know can't be true, you know, like
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 4: Kennedy was shot, a cop fell off his motorcycle, somebody's
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 4: got shot in the foot over here, there's eight shots
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 4: going on, you know, like, what are we talking about here?
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if someone got shot in the foot, either they
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: were a tough soldier and just walked their off or everyone.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 5: Just real quick, jough. I found the film My Dog Buddy.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 4: Okay, so let's see if we can find honest Joe's
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 4: pawn shop in this movie real quick before we get
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 4: out of here. So I was, I've been fast forwarding
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 4: a little bit. I have not found any scenes in
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 4: Dallas yet, except for one that's coming up here in
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 4: just a second.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 5: So the sound is off.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 4: There's Buddy the dog, There's Joe and Ruby. There's Joe's
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 4: falling in from the bucket. There's Bonnie Ray Williams throw
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 4: Oh shit, man, so I'm sorry. Now the dog is
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 4: helping a barrel. He's scared of death. Gotta be something
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 4: to eat around here. Let's go to kl i F.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 4: That's a radio station or TV station in Dallas. So
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 4: let's fast forward a little bit.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 5: Here.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 4: Buddy is taking something looks to be like a baseball
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 4: mint or a hat.
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 5: Look there's honest joke. No, no, it's just an ambulance.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 5: What the hell, get out the goddamn robe. Dog, stupid dog.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 4: Oh the acting it is a baseball mint. Oh, poor buddy,
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 4: go get it, buddy, for somebody runs over?
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 5: Who get it? Go ahead, he is gonna get hit.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 5: Uh oh, try a getting buddy. There you go, good boy.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 5: My dog ran away, Sir, I haven't seen it. I'm
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 5: so sad. Just take your tail. It'll be okay. We'll
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 5: get you more into your lecture shock therapy.
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 4: Classes here in just a minute.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 5: Run buddy, run, I'll miss you. Buddy. Where's my dog?
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 5: I've got your mitt little fella, I'm coming for you.
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 5: All right, let's fast forward a little bit.
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 4: Here through this. How long it's an hour and fifteen
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 4: minutes long. Well, we can fast forward through and see
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 4: if we can find uh picture horn shop. I mean
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 4: it's got to be around here somewhere.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: You think so. I said it was filmed.
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 4: There's a Alas police truck in the junk yard, which
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 4: is interesting.
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 5: Little hoodlums are.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 4: Stripping the spar poor buddies looking for his master. Now
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 4: he's still locked up in the insane asylum. Buddy, it
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 4: was not the kids you were looking for.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, all right, let's keep going.
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure that this movie that's a pot what
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: is this okay? So okay, so this is definitely the paho.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 2: This might be it, Okay, this is great, Okay, it
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: might be the back entrance. But this is definitely inside
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 4: Right rent tools, guns, machinery, high loan's lowest interest.
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 5: This is This is honest Joe's pawn shop. This is it,
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 5: all right? I found it here. It is the interior.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 4: What do you want me to give you for this minute?
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: It seems like three treats.
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 4: He's gonna give money. I need some water, man, Can
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 4: you can you help a brother out with some water?
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 5: I've been running the Dallas all day, Joe. Come on, yeah,
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 5: well yeah, check with the crayon, buddy, Hold on a second,
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 5: I'll get you some water. Just be patient.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: Is he using the water cooler there?
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 5: He's trying to get some water out of that bitch.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 5: Sure he's thirsty.
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: Oh my godness, yeah, he's dripping.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 5: I'll get honest, Joe, this is gold. Yeah, hang this
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 5: up right here.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 4: I'll give you a pluck mikeel for it, little buddy. Yep,
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 4: honest Joe loons. What is he doing? He used every
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 4: nook and cranny in that store, man.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: Right, Which is not.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 5: The dogs and steal some ship. Wat m dollar fifty
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 5: for the mint? H what are you doing down there,
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 5: little buddy?
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: What are you doing up there? Big buddy?
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 5: What kind of movie is this?
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Hold on. Someone said something very interesting
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: which I read earlier, and I prep for the show.
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: Honest Joe's claims the shop later sold the rifle that
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: Hinckley used to shoot Reagan in nineteen eighty one. Now,
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: I didn't view this on a Reddit thread, but I
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: did view it either on an article or something like that,
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: which is very interesting.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 4: Now, honest Joe is stuck up top, and now that
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 4: climb the ladder to get the mit back allegedly?
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 5: Is he gonna do it?
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 4: And the dog climb the ladder to get the mind? Yes,
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 4: he can, look at him.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 5: Go go ahead, buddy, go get it. Come on, buddy,
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 5: get up there. There you go, boy, get that thing?
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 5: You did get it? Yeah? Good boy? Boy? Ripped his
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 5: tag off this bit. Hey, where's it should be?
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: Highest, Joe?
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 5: Get back here, you dog, you dirty mutt.
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, one of these leashes or something there?
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 4: Oh so here we are outside of honest Joe's pawn shot.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: Right that looks pretty familiar, right.
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, there there's a there's the shady cuban ex Now, oh,
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 5: go back, go back, go back to hospital. The little
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 5: boys in Parkland Hospital.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 2: Just go back ten seconds. I want to see if
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: he's cute.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 5: Definitely could be.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know, definitely could be.
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 4: There's some foreshadow. The little boy in Parking the hospital
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 4: has a nightmare. He's stuck on a raft with his
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 4: dog in the middle of a giant lake. What kind
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 4: of raft is that? God damn, it's.
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 2: Like a bunch of pieces of plywood.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 4: Budd He's like, I ain't getting on that thing.
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 2: Out of here. Yeah, I could have done the earlier
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: version of Old Yellow Tiny.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 5: Here. We're going fishing with the stick. Buddy, here's such
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 5: a good dog.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 9: Get that fish, got that fish, Get that fish, Get
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 9: in there, get that fish.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 5: Dogs like, I need some direction here. What am I
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 5: supposed to do? What do you wanna?
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 3: Do?
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 5: You get the fish? Help the woods ride? What do
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 5: you need me to do here?
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna.
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 5: Probably he's the real thing in he's just struggling. I
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 5: was waiting for the dog to.
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 4: Jump in there and grab the fish, and then the
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 4: kid falls in he's just dreaming about better days with
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 4: him and his dog.
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 5: But anyway, that's one of the movies that honest Joe
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 5: is in. Oh man, that's pretty crazy.
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: It's pretty funny.
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 5: Storry London, the German Shepherd.
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 4: Oh, how nido is that?
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: That is pretty funny? Man, it's pretty cool.
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 10: And I think it more points to him as a
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 10: entrepreneur and trying different business ideas, however silly they might be.
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 2: As we just saw, and advertising everywhere doesn't seem like
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: someone that could be like involved necessarily, but someone that
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: might have sold something to someone who could have been
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: or whatever. And I don't know if the thirty or
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: fifty cow was like a prop or not. I don't know.
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: Of course, very interesting, but that is honest show.
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 4: And that comes from Dishonest Joe. And that is episode
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 4: of four hundred and eight of the Lone Cooming Podcast.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: I have many things, I am not dishonest.
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 4: I tried to wrap it all up here in a
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 4: neat little bow. Joe, so folks, thank you for hanging
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 4: out with us. Joe grabbed the damn dog, grab little
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 4: Ruby Goldstein and the Ruby.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 5: Ruby dno for the record, but he said always be
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 5: pleasure than if you're hanging out with us. Thank you
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 5: for the accolades.
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 4: Make sure to hit that thumb up button on your
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 4: way out the door.
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 5: We'd appreciate it.
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, please do that. That helps the.
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 5: Yes, we need all the help we can get. Where
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 5: are just going? We will be back soon.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 4: With random research railings with Rob and Hooker you and
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 4: then part two to this show, Wednesday Night Remembers Only.
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 5: If you're not a member yet, what are you doing?
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: Good night?
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 5: What are you doing? So you're missing out with what
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 5: you're doing? You sign up, become a number. You can
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 5: try it out for free. If you don't like it
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 5: and you get your money back. Trust me, you'll like
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 5: trust me. Just ask me. Folks, they will tell you
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 5: all rub hard we killed it on Wednesday Nights. There's Ruby, Hey.
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 4: Ruby, there she is all right, folks, have a fantastic weekend.
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 4: We'll see you soon. For Joe Borelli. I am the Big,
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 4: the Bad and the Bob and we are out.
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 2: Thank you, everyone, appreciate you.