Latest / Breakdown Besties | Bollywood Screenwriting Podcast / E22: Bhoot (2003) Screenwriting Breakdown
Transcript
- Ananya: Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Breakdown Besties Podcast. I'm Ananya. Akshay: I'm axe. Ananya: And we are your Breakdown Besties. Together, we have 14 years of experience writing for shows like Mismatch, Wedding.com, Ishkin the Air, Rana Naidu, Grahan, Inside Edge, and a host of others that have gotten stuck in development hell but will hopefully see the light of day one day. With the Breakdown Besties podcast, our goal is to give you a film school experience right from the comfort of your home, where what we do is watch great films. Break down the scenes, sequences, dialogues, and everything else that goes into making a film the phenomenal piece that it is. and what's the underlying mechanics that essentially helps bring all these elements to life. We break it down and then apply it to our own scripts and we hope that you can do the same so that you too can create your own iconic Bollywood films. And today the film that we are gonna be breaking down is a two thousand and three masterpiece, at least for its time, I think, 'cause I was quite Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: spooked watching it this time around too, right? Akshay: I was fully uncomfortable almost throughout the film, you know? Yeah. Ananya: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And at some point I was literally like this, like, I I don't want to see this. And I was watching it in broad daylight. Yeah. So Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Same, same. Ananya: the 2003 Ajay Dev Gun and Urmira Matonkar Starer Bhut, written by Same Sharma and Lalit Maharathe. This was quite a phenomenal, genuinely spooky horror film. Which I think is so hard to do. Akshay: Very hard and I think they also tried so much atmosphere building, you know, like how they Ananya: Yes. Akshay: were so innovative in their shot taking also. Like, you know, not just the Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: like the directions fully elevated the story. it was so eerie Ananya: Completely. Akshay: almost. Ananya: Exactly. And every shot was from the perspective of you being watched. So it even at the end of the film when they pull out and you see the nails and stuff, it's still like someone's watching you and it is terrifying. Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was really terrifying. Like even like the it's so imposing kind of shots, right? Like, you know, in the from the middle of the staircase you're watching. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: It's very spooky. Ananya: Very, very yes. Cool. So let's get into the film the way we always do by getting into the log line. So, what is your log line? Your log line is your film's premise, essentially summarized in 40 words or less, and it is your guiding light. So when you're stuck. And you can't see the forest for the trees when you're writing your screenplay and you are so lost in a scene or in a dialogue sequence, and you're like, why am I even writing this? That is when you go back to your log line. Because your log line contains four essential elements that will always, always, always point you in the right direction, the direction in which your film is supposed to eventually go. Right? And these four elements are one. Your block, limitation, wound, need, flaw. This is essentially something within your protagonist, which is stopping them from growing and from achieving their element number two: goal. Goal is the main reason anyone comes to watch the film, for the most part. It is the journey the character is going on to achieve something, and we want to see whether they achieve this or not. Then you have element number three, which is conflict. Conflict is the external manifestation of your need slash flaw slash block or wound. For example, if you're a coward you will constantly be seeing conflict in the way of a lion, the shape of a lion who will be attacking you and forcing you to confront your cowardice and fears. This is actually what people what keeps people in their seat at the edge of their seat. It's your story engine keeps it running because the more conflict you have, the more entertaining something becomes, and you want to see things move forward. And finally, you have stakes. Stakes are what your character will lose should they not achieve their goal. It is not simply not achieving their goal, it is taking it one level lower. So let's go into the log line of Booth. Now With this log line, I'm a little I feel like a couple of elements are I wouldn't say missing, but not spelled out. Okay. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: so I'll read out what I have and then we can go into it. So when a woman is possessed by the ghost haunting her new apartment, they must figure out how to exorcise the ghost, lest she live possessed forever. Akshay: Hmm. Yeah, interesting. I mean, the thing is, all of this kicks out kicks in the film very late. You know? Yeah. I had a Ananya: Very late, very late. Yeah. So Akshay: another version of the log line. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Akshay: and you tell me like if it's incomplete, like even I know while I'm reading this is incomplete. Ananya: Mm. Akshay: but y humor me. A wife Ananya: Hm. Akshay: comes to know. That her husband lied to her about their new house, wherein she discovers that the house is actually haunted. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Akshay: Like that is my log line. So like but I think let's go into yours, let's break it down first. and then let's chat. Ananya: Okay, okay. So the first thing is the flower block limitation, etc. I don't think Urmila Matonka's character has a need or a limitation or a wound. Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Ananya: There is nothing internal which is stopping her. Like I try to think about this a lot and I'm like, why is she haunted? There is no reason. Like Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: so there's nothing internal to her. Maybe it's because Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: she's a woman and she's extremely empathetic. But that is just intellectualizing everything. That's not actually Akshay: And you know in most horror movies they don't justify why is this person being subject to this haunting. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: in most films. Like especially especially Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: back in the days, I think n modern horror writers are still trying to like justify that why this person. But back in the day, Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: like a lot of Stephen King novels, like they just didn't tell you like why is the story starting with this person and not the other person. Ananya: Hmm, that's supposed to. Akshay: Like again, the question Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: is why is Ajahnyukka not being haunted? Why is she being haunted? You know? and Ananya: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Akshay: for me, I tried to answer it in a way that she was fragile because she cared about that somebody did die in this house, you know? And hence, like she was a little miffed with him lying in the beginning that why Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: didn't you tell me? Because there was a slight situation that maybe like if he would have been honest, maybe she wouldn't have moved into the house, you know. Ananya: Yeah, yeah. Akshay: Probably we don't know that. Ananya: Exactly. That's exactly what I meant by she's empathetic, etc. But and Akshay: Huh. Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Ajay Devgan is very obviously a non-believer. But Akshay: Huh, yeah. Ananya: I still like again, that's intellectualizing and us overthinking it, right? To Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: make it make sense in this template. Then possessed by the ghost. So that is your conflict, because this ghost is taking over her life, possessing her, making her do all sorts of things, taking over her body. So you're constantly wondering what is she going to do next? That is your conflict. they must figure out how to exorcise the ghost. So that is your goal to get rid of this ghost, to get her out of her body. Akshay: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Ananya: And then you have the stakes. Now I'd say the stakes here are not clearly established because Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: I'm like, I can't say she's gonna lose her life, because it doesn't seem like she's gonna lose her life. It just seems like Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: she's going to stay possessed forever. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Like the ghost is not gonna leave her. And that is not stakes. Like it's not taking it one level lower. I think Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: the one level lower would be maybe that everyone would leave her. Let's say Ajay Devgan abandons her, everyone abandons her, and Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: she's left like being a woman who is, you know, like walking through life possessed, yeah. And being lonely. But Akshay: Possessed, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: yeah, those are the stakes. Because at no point is it that she's going to kill herself. That's Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: not Akshay: She's a threat to actually others around her. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I sort Ananya: Others around her, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So Akshay: of get what you say. Like I agree with all those aspects. Ananya: Hm. Akshay: and and I was I was sayki like my breakdown of the log line, you know? again I tried to intellectualize that why like what is her flaw, what is her limitation, what is her block, Ananya: Hm Akshay: is that Her husband lied to her about this, which she couldn't get out of her head, you know? So, like Ananya: Yeah, yeah. Akshay: that sort of kept playing with her pl and like she was more susceptible to sort of these images in the house of the people like who were like the ghosts, you know. But again, this is me. She Ananya: She was empathetic, yeah. Akshay: was empathetic. That was again me intellectualizing. Ananya: But also the doctors also say it, right? Though that's a separate story 'cause this is not about really the doctors. But the doctors Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: say that she has been she's taken that story so to heart that she has Akshay: Huh. Ananya: been traumatized with this story and that's why Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: she's not being able to sleep. That's what's causing all these issues. Akshay: Yeah, correct. This was the science Ananya: So maybe. Akshay: analysis of that, right? Like, you know, this son Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: bulvilaya also, like how they justify it by saying that Abni took that story too so much to her heart, you know, because she related Ananya: Hmm, hm, yeah. Akshay: to the whole thing back in her from her life. Ananya: Exactly. Exactly. Akshay: is case myth of Wobi Nahihu. You know, like she Ananya: We'll be neighbor and love. Akshay: also like sh she also doesn't have these this like traumatic incident from the past, which I'm I think glad because I think it's a little Ananya: In a yeah. Akshay: Done to death, right? Like like the person who is possessed, some part of their story will come back now. Like I think it's a little too done to death, you know? And I stopped enjoying that. Ananya: Yeah. Too done to that, exactly. Yeah. Akshay: then I thought the conflict was that n they are now mo having to live in this house which is haunted, you know. again, same like the ghost like will possess her. Same thing, yeah. Ananya: Hmm. Same thing. Yeah, yeah, Akshay: And stakes I couldn't find again. Yeah. So Ananya: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I think essentially both our log lines are very similar. It Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: just you have to kind of just know what each element will lend to. Like, how do you push it? For example, Akshay: Yeah. Hmm. Ananya: if you're like we both have the story engine, the conflict of living in a haunted house or being possessed by a ghost. So Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Ananya: now you have to know that a haunting will eventually lead. Akshay: I mean Yeah. Ananya: to a possession. Like that is the way most horror story arcs work, right? Akshay: Possession or like murder or something of that sort will happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Yeah, happen. Exactly. So especially I think a goal can be something fixed, right? It is something fixed, like to exorcise Akshay: Mm. So Ananya: the ghost, get rid of the ghost, all of that. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: stakes are something that can build, as we've seen in, for example, Kahani, where Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: we don't think that she's gonna be killed immediately, but later on the stakes are that will she lose her life, you know? So over here the stakes can build in a film, and the Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: conflict has to keep building. Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Because otherwise you have you have a flat arc, right? You don't have an arc, then it's flat. Akshay: Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Ananya: So your conflict is constantly rising, rising action as we call it in film terms. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: So when you say haunted, you have to be able to mentally push it to see what are the different levels you'll take. So I went directly to possession, but even when you say haunting, it does imply that. So I think Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, correct. Exactly. Totally. Yeah. And again there is stake Ananya: So this is a good lesson. Akshay: there is stake built in this also. Is that like it's not normal to be possessed by a ghost, right? Like the stake is Ananya: It's not. Akshay: I mean, yeah, exactly. So Ananya: Ha ha ha Akshay: so this again there is stake involved in that. Like we don't know what the downside Ananya: Hm. Akshay: of this could be, possibly, right? Like Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Akshay: like we don't know ki how much is she a threat to herself or to others. Like that that that Ananya: Others, yeah. Akshay: living in that unknown is take itself in like this case. Yeah. Ananya: itself. True, true. Exactly. Yeah. Definitely cool. So that is our log line. Next, let's go into our hero's journey. So what is your hero's journey? Your hero's journey is a journey every hero, every protagonist, and even we go on when we set out to do something new in our lives that entails overcoming something within us. So that we can actually go and achieve this new thing. And the reason we haven't achieved this new thing all along is because we also have a need, a block, a flaw which has stopped us. And in trying to get what we want, we actually go on a journey of overcoming that flaw. The journey is achieving the goal is almost you know, secondary. But it is in only in overcoming our flaw that we can get closer to achieving it or even imagine having our goal. So, this is the journey we go on, and as we set out on these journeys, as our characters go on these journeys, there is an organic progression. We will all hit certain emotional turning points, we'll meet certain people in our journeys, we'll have certain emotional experiences. And the hero's journey essentially just maps out all these experiences for us to use as a sort of guiding light or template to tell us that hey at this point in your journey this is the kind of emotional experience you need to give your audience so that a it feels internally true to them and b it you're also making progress towards your goal and delivering the emotional hits you need to keep the story going forward. Akshay: Right. Ananya: So let's start with the first phase of our hero's journey. That is the ordinary world. This is where you see the characters for the world in which they exist, where nothing is really different. You see why they haven't achieved their goal yet, who they are, where they live, what they're doing. You see all of the circumstances of their ordinary life. Now, in this case, it is that Urmala Matonkar has moved in with. Ajay Dev Gan, they are living their normal life, they're a very happy couple, they're a normal like Bombay couple, and they are enjoying this new house and their relationship, right? Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Ananya: There's also, I would say that you see some of the ghosts in the background in this house that comes as part of the ordinary world, but Urmila Matonkar hasn't noticed them yet. So for her, Akshay: Yet. Ananya: this is still she's in her normal world, Then you have your call to action. Your call to action is when you are beckoned to come achieve your goal. Something on the outside or something from within you will say, Come, come, let's achieve this goal. And you say, Okay, let me see what this call is about. So, over here, the call to action comes when Urmila Matonkar is, I believe, looking in a mirror watching TV and there's a mirror on the side and for a split second she sees the ghosts there and she turns around and there's no one. So yeah, Akshay: Yeah. Nobody, yeah. Ananya: that is the first sort of call to action, right? That someone is there. And Akshay: Mm. Yeah. Ananya: then as she goes up like there's a kitchen, one patila falls down. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: so she calls Ajay Devgun down and they're like like there's something up here. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: And then you have the refusal of the call. The refusal of the call is when you or someone within you tells you that, listen, this is not happening. You can't go on this journey. You can't achieve your goal. This is not possible. And over here, Ajay Devgan refuses the call and says, Bro, you're overreacting. He starts making fun of her also the next morning. Like the Patila Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: must have fallen from the wind. So Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: it's all good. Akshay: One more thing. I've I think Ananya: right? Hmm. Akshay: we spoke about this in Bulbalaya also when you were breaking that down. That in a horror movie, generally, like you see multiple times the call has come to you and you refuse that call. Because I Ananya: Mm. Akshay: think it's just nature of that film, because you can't directly enter the basement immediately. There will Ananya: Mm. Akshay: have to there will be ne there will need to be the push and pull where you you'd think, I think sa I heard something down there, somebody will say no. Then you try and Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: go one step ahead, somebody will call you back. And the third time you'll finally Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: go in. And I think even in this film it happens in different ways. Where Ananya: Hm. Akshay: Urmela questions her husband that when she founds out about that they they are they're living in a house which is like somebody had killed themselves in this house. So Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: she she asks him, How could you not tell me? And that's when he Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: says that come on, like how does it matter? Like this is rubbish, you know, like Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: this doesn't affect anything. So again these series Ananya: Mm-hmm. Akshay: of push and pull of like sh her trying to like get to this information fast enough and him refusing it, I think also falls part of this call to action and refusal of the call moments, you know? Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. I agree with you. Definitely. Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Ananya: then you have meeting the mentor, right? Now, meeting the mentor is when you meet someone who has essentially been on this journey or going to go on and they say that if your goal is to slay the dragon, I'm going to give you the sword, I'm gonna tell you how to do it, etc. But do you think there's a mentor in this film? Akshay: No, there isn't. Ananya: And then you have crossing the threshold. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: So this is when you know that you have taken a step into your new world and there is no turning back. That this is you Akshay: Hmm. Ananya: are grounded, you are going on this journey, there is no escaping it, you are at a point of no return. Over here, this point is when I think it's a big bigger sequence where Akshay: Hello. Ananya: A. she says to their she and Ajay Devgana are going for a movie and then you see that they're in the cinema and they're in the cinema and actually everyone's a ghost there. The ghost is sitting next to her. That and then she wakes up and she realizes that she's in a dream. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: And only for her to go down and have a drink of water and actually like see the g feel like the ghost is around there. Then for her to go to the beach with that Akshay: Yeah, properly for the first time in the kitchen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Kitchen, exactly. Yeah. Akshay: because before that she's not believing that there is a ghost. You know, because Ananya: Mm. Akshay: there are these mo fleeting moments that she sees somebody, but her belief is immediately Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: negated. Ananya: yeah, yeah. Akshay: But now for sure because she in her gut knows that this is a person, like this is a ghost, you know. Even though not Ananya: Hm, ghost, yeah. Akshay: expressed in s these many words, but you can see it very clearly on screen. Yeah. Ananya: Hmm. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then they go to the beach, and at the beach, also, like, she's being haunted by this ghost. So you know that now the ghost is essentially in her mind. She's Akshay: Mm. Ananya: stuck, and the ghost is and making her way towards her. So that is when you know she's crossed the threshold. Like the ghost is not gonna leave her. She's taken hold of Akshay: Hmm. Correct. Ananya: her dreams, her thoughts, everything, right? Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Ananya: Then you have tests, allies, and enemies. Now that you're in this new world, you're gonna understand who your friends are, who your enemies are, what tests and challenges you're gonna face, who's gonna support Akshay: Mm. Ananya: you. And in this case, you see that one of the allies, but also not really allies, but enemies, is the doctor who Akshay: So Ananya: Ajay Devgan goes to and he says that okay, she's been really affected by the story, so she's feeling like she can't sleep, we need to give her sleeping pills, insomnia. Atyadevgan's trying to help her out. He really thinks something's wrong with her. Then you see all sorts of tests coming her way where she feels haunted, she sees the ghost. That's going on, right? Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Then you have the approach to the innermost cave. This is when, if your goal is to slay the dragon and grab the bag of gold, this is where you approach the cave of the dragon and fight them to try and get that bag of gold. In this case, it is the complete possession of her, where she is fully taken over. And I believe this is when Urmila Matankar goes and kills the watchman character. Right? This is Akshay: Perfect. Yeah. Ananya: the approach to the innermost cave. You know that as a ghost, she is here, she has done the thing, she's on the path to doing the thing that she's wanting to do. Akshay: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: And then once you've gotten this bag of gold. Your ordeal commences. Your ordeal Akshay: Hmm. Ananya: is essentially the consequences that now have to that you now have to face as a result of stealing that bag of gold. There are people coming after you, you have to flee, you have to make good your escape, lots of things. So over here it is a police investigation that begins behind the death of the watchman. Nana Partikar's character comes in as an inspector who's trying to figure out what's up with this case. Then you have Ajay Devgan now consulting a psychiatrist. They want to see what's wrong with her on that front. That, you know, just a psychologist or a sleep doctor isn't helping. And all these different things are going on. And she gets completely possessed to the point that she even develops to superhuman strength, as they all do, even with their balanced character in Bul Bulaya lifting up that thing. And Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ananya: she shoves Ajay Devgan away. And realizes something is really wrong and something needs to be done about this. Right? Akshay: Mm, correct. Ananya: Then you have the reward. The reward is you've finally gotten a breather, you've left everyone behind in your wake, you can get a moment and you can have a you can enjoy your bag of gold. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: In this case, it is the sequence where the maid who has worked for Manjeet, who used to live in this house. Before and has seen the person earlier, the prior tenant says that this is not some mental illness. I can tell that this is manjeet. I recognize her voice. So this is actually manjeet possessing your wife. And Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Ajay Devgan, who now has seen his wife, have superhuman strength, all of that, has gone from a non-believer to a believer. Finally says that okay, I guess you're right, and this is the work of an exhaustist, not a doctor. So they go to Rekha's character, and Rekha agrees to help. So that is your reward. Then you have your way back. Now that you've secured your reward, you still have to make your way back home. You have to ensure that it is safe and protected, and you're able to make the take the final steps towards your home. In this case, Rekha comes home. She talks to Manjeet, and they realize that there is more than meets the eye to her story, that she was not a crazy woman who just jumped off the balcony and is now over here haunting the house. So Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: then she goes and calls Manjeet's mother, and then Akshay: Matado. Ananya: we have Fardeen Khan's character enter. And over here we have the big reveal that it was actually Fardeen Khan who was trying to force himself onto Manjeet. And when he couldn't have her, he threw her out of the window. I mean threw her off the balcony, threw her son off the balcony, and also made the watchman complicit in his Akshay: Complicit. Ananya: actions. Yeah, by saying that, don't tell on anyone, don't bat only. Akshay: Yeah. Essentially the whole lore of the film comes out in this phase. Yeah. Ananya: comes out here. Absolutely, yes. And then Manjit wants her revenge on Fardeen Khan. and in this time Nana Patakar, who obviously doesn't believe that there's a ghost and all this is happening, it believes that Swati, the Tsormula Matonson's character is responsible for killing the watchman because she has a mental illness. So while so there's a big scene in the basement where Man Manjeet is trying to get her revenge on Fardeen Khan and she is going to do something to him. When and this is like you this is honestly the lowest point for Swati as the character, for Urmila Matonka's character. Because Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: as Manjeet's mother says, or Zekhar says, I don't remember that, Iska that Fardeen Khan ki suza Swati ko maddo. Akshay: Qu'est-ce que ça m'entoure, huh? Ananya: Because if you kill Fardeen, then Swati is going to get punished. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: So and that is the resurrection moment. The resurrection moment is when your character is at their lowest and then they rise from the ashes and they are safe from their lowest point. So when Manjid the ghost decides not to kill Fardeen Khan, Swati, whose body she was possessing. Is also saved from the what do you call it? The consequences of it. Yeah. And Akshay: The legal consequence of it. Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: also at this point, Nana Patikar has entered the scene. He's seen that okay, there is actually a ghost living here in Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: this body. And Fardeen Khan at the same time also admits to having killed Manjit. Akshay: Killing Manzeed. Ananya: Yeah. So that is your resurrection, and then you have your return with the elixir, which is where your What do you call it? Your character returns to the old world but now is a new person. So over here it is just Swati giving Ajayadevgan a hug, saying that okay, I am free of this ghost, right? But Akshay: Hm. Yeah. Ananya: the story is not over yet, because Fardeen Khan goes to jail and turns out Manjit has not while has left Swati's body, has not left this world. She Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: is there to get Fardeen Khan. Which is a good satisfying ending, I think. Akshay: Yeah, like I like justice is served, you know? Like like whoever Ananya: So yeah. Akshay: was the culprit they kill them. Like the w the watchman got Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: killed and like this guy got killed and like yeah, it just feels nice. Yeah. Ananya: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And you know, while this story seems like Swati's story, it is actually Manjit the ghost's story. Akshay: Yeah, of course, correct. Ananya: This whole film. So in fact, you can even do the hero's journey from her point of view. Cause she is the heroine of this journey, I think. Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Cause at the end of the day, this stopped being Swati's story. She was just a literally a medium, a vehicle for the haunting, right? So if we would have this from Akshay: Huh. Yeah, correct. Yeah. Yeah, because after the midpoint, like she didn't do anything actively. Like her character did not nothing actively. Yeah. Ananya: Mm. Nothing, nothing. Exactly. So that way, Manjit's ordinary world is, you know, when the house is empty. Her call to action would be when Swati and all come into the house, Swati and Ajayadevgan. Akshay: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: There is the refusal of the call would there wouldn't really be a refusal because Akshay: Yeah, that wouldn't yeah. Ananya: Be. Like Ajay Akshay: Huh. Ananya: Devon's not believing that she exists, but she's Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: not, she's like, ha ha, don't believe me. I'm the going to keep like trying. And Akshay: Yeah, correct. Ananya: then the call to action, I mean the cross mentor, there's no mentor here again Akshay: And Ananya: in this yeah. Crossing the threshold would be the same where she is in showing herself and and yeah, exactly. Akshay: Starts showing herself to Urmila's character. Yeah. Ananya: Showing herself then Test allies and enemies would be similar where she's hunting her everywhere, possessing her, they kill the and Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Ananya: that is happening. Approach to the innermost cave would also be killing the watchmen. Right? Akshay: Watchman. That's the first medium of justice she gets for in her life, essentially, right? Because the watchman Ananya: Yeah, no life. Akshay: threw the sun off the balcony. Yeah. Ananya: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And then you have ordeal. The ordeal is where she now she's fully possessed this woman, but she doesn't know what to do next. She's not being able to communicate. So Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: she's like she wants Fardeen Khan's character. She wants Fardean Khan's character. And then Rekha coming to her and having that conversation and saying, I'll get your mom and all Akshay: Num ha. Ananya: of that until Fardeen Khan coming would Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: be the reward for her. From meeting Akshay: Right. Ananya: Rekha to Fardeen Khan coming is because now she can go after him. Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: the way back is, you know, like taking almost killing Fardeen Khan. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: And the resurrection is seeing Fardeen Khan in jail. I think her body. And there is no return with the elixir. Akshay: Again. Yeah. No, the resurrection the resurrection would be that moment, right? Like when she doesn't do the murder of Fardeen Khan by Swati's hands, but instead like she makes him hover on the ground like hover in the air and like he's above those nails. And like that's Ananya: Mm. Akshay: her moment where she takes that bigger st like the higher step where she she doesn't need this medium anymore physically. She just had to prove to the world that this Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: guy is my killer. So, like what the true Ananya: Mm. Akshay: revelation needed to be for her life. That she didn't commit suicide, Ananya: Вже Akshay: that she didn't commit suicide. Somebody killed her. Was this guy who killed her? Resurrection. Ananya: Yeah. Right, that is her resurrection. Nice. Yeah. Akshay: And the Elixir is that she comes to in the jail to haunt him and to essentially kill him. Ananya: Hmm. Kill him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice, nice. Yeah. Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: So yeah, these are our two heroes' journeys essentially. Akshay: have no notes on character creation by the way. Ananya: Yeah. Yeah, none. And I have no notes on theme also, 'cause there is no theme. Akshay: That is not easy, yeah. Ananya: Yeah. So I think what we'll I said. Akshay: Will justice be will ch will justice be served in this life? Ananya: Ha ha ha. yeah, yeah, essentially. Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Even I didn't make any notes on tape, but I'm just thinking now. When we discuss the hero's journey from Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: Manjeet's point of view, I'm like maybe like karma hits you back. Ananya: Yeah, it has to be like justice needs to be served at any cost. Akshay: Huh. Yeah. Ananya: You know, like you shouldn't leave until justice has been served. Like you should always Akshay: Hmm. Ananya: pursue justice being served. Akshay: Yeah, yeah, correct. Will you Ananya: Should we discuss that? Akshay: will you always face the consequences of your bad actions? Like you know, like essentially if it's a has to be Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: stated as a question. Ananya: Question, yeah. Or how until what point should justice be pursued? Because I'm Akshay: Huh, yeah, correct. Ananya: thinking of it from Manjit's point of view. So it's Akshay: Hmm, mm. Ananya: like, till what point should justice be pursued, right? Like, and the answer Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: is until it is served. So even Akshay: Correct. Ananya: if you have to haunt people until you're dying Akshay: Я Ananya: and post-death breath, whether you need a body or not. Akshay: Yeah. And Yeah. I was thinking in the end, why hasn't the ghost followed Sardin Khan before? Like why now? Because now Ananya: Hmm, yeah. Akshay: the ghost is aware where Sardin Khan is. You know, technically, Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: like otherwise this ghost was captured in this house all along. Right? Like it couldn't go beyond this. There were no previous tenants in this house, no previous like people who inhabited here. So there was no medium Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: for her to go out. But now that sh Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: and hence she couldn't call Fardeen's character to her. But now that she's Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: called him and now she knows where he is, she can haunt him now again. You know, f forever or get Ananya: No, yeah. Akshay: her justice. Ananya: You really thought about the mechanics of this world. Akshay: Yeah, I did, I did. I was like, because these all things really bother me. Like like s Ananya: Mm. Akshay: because when I saw this ghost at the beach, I was like, now okay. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: You know, like now what what just happened, you know? Like, now will she come everywhere with her, you know? Like Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: and in the and there was a difference, right? Like that theatre sequence was very evidently her mind. Playing with her, right? Because like Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Akshay: you see, not just her, but like everybody else turning into a ghost. But I genuinely feel like at the beach, maybe there was the ghost with her, you know? yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel that too. Yeah. Akshay: So now that was only possible because now the ghost got a medium to like go out or whatever. You know, like Ananya: Mm. Akshay: now the ghost can feel good about going out. I don't know. But like it sort of made small, small steps added in my mind for this to happen. Ananya: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Cool, yeah. Akshay: Yeah. And I do feel, and I do feel sometimes like especially horror writers are very cognizant of the fact that how much you can push your ghost, right? Like how Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: much how much unrealistic or realistic you can make them. Because Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: you can say that it could be kar sakta yi boot, right? Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: But that's not fun because the only good stories will come if you set certain limitations to every character you have. So Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: Why this was I know like you would c like the writers would have thought that why hasn't she gone out before? You know, like something the Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: must have happened, even if not in these exact words, but them they must have set some rules for their ghost. Ananya: Definitely. Yes, for sure. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Let's go into scenes and sequences next. So okay. So I think one scene I want to talk about, and this is not even really a scene, it is the opening slate of the film where Akshay: That was my first scene I was gonna talk about. Yeah. Ananya: Right. And where Ram Gopal Varma says that people who are women who are pregnant and people with heart conditions shouldn't Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: should be careful while watching this film or shouldn't watch this film, right? Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: And the first time I read this, I f immediately thought about a roller coaster. Akshay: Hm. Ananya: And I'm like this is essentially maybe because I'd just gone to like universal in September or something. Yeah. Akshay: yeah. Ananya: This is the sign they put outside all rides, roller coasters, etc., that people with heart conditions and people who are pregnant shouldn't be on this ride. And immediately I was like, so this film is gonna be like a roller coaster. Akshay: So Ananya: So, how do you create a visual using words? So, if you want to create a roller coaster or give people the sense of what is coming their way. They've taken the words of one world and implanted it here to give you a feeling of that world, to give you a sense of what's going to come your way. So this is a beautiful technique of imagining what ride you want to take your characters on, and using that imagery in the form of words to foreshadow that experience. Akshay: Hmm. Very smart. Yeah, very cool. Ananya: Yeah. What did you have on the opening? Akshay: I thought when you meant the opening slate, I meant the opening credits, which was w Ananya: Right. Even that. Akshay: which was the sound of all these wails, the screams, the visuals of fire burning. And Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: and I just felt that this is the moment of establishing the genre, right? Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: Because your audience has come in with a certain expectation because they're going for a genre film and they want Ananya: Hm Akshay: that emotional thrill. Right? Like people in real life don't want to be scared uncalled for. But here people want to be scared. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: They're wanting this escapism and this experience out of it. You deliver immediately. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: Right? Like and immediately when the opening credits start, you feel extremely uncomfortable. Like I'm like, what Ananya: Mm. Akshay: is going on? It's like just had such an unsettling feeling in you, you know. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: I don't know what those motives are. Like I could only sort of like in like superimposed that maybe like these were the wails of like people mourning for the death of this person who has just had this pyre Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: or like are these the go like wails of the actual ghost when like she was dying. I don't know what it is. But Ananya: Mm. Akshay: it just establishes the genre for me. Ananya: Yeah, yeah. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: And what that also did was, especially because obviously this is very niche, but all the shots, not only are they, you know, very banal shots of our lives, there's traffic, Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Ananya: there are houses, yeah. And especially if you notice it's all shot in four bungalows, model town, Lokhandwala back road. Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Ananya: So if you're familiar with all of that, it's like Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: it's looking at the ordinary through the lens of the supernatural. Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: So even what we consider banal actually Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: has this underlying eeriness to it. So Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: I think that also really worked, that using the ordinary visuals to spook you, like giving it a different spin. Akshay: Yeah. Correct. Correct. Totally. Ananya: Then I think one more sense of foreshadowing, I want to we touched upon this briefly when we spoke about the angles and how everything is constantly like you're being watched. So even before the ghost has been set up, even before you've established that there is someone haunting this place, even then the visuals are you constantly being watched. And do you think that okay, that is the Stylistic choice that they've made within this film, right? That they want you to have that. But then you actually cut to the ghost watching them. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: And you realize that it's not just a stylistic choice, it was also foreshadowing, visual foreshadowing that someone is always seeing you. And Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: I don't know if you would write this into a script, honestly, because it is a very directorial choice. But Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: if you are a writer director and you have the choice to put your direction on the page, then I would definitely break the rule and say that, okay, V s it feels like someone is watching them the whole time. And then you later Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: on say that, someone is watching them, the ghost is watching them. So that felt Akshay: Yeah. Correct. Ananya: like a good foreshadowing then. Akshay: And that was such an interesting moment in the film, right? Like when you see the ghost actually in that angle, you're Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: like, no, like they spelled it out. Because Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: this moment essentially comes as a reveal in a lot of films, right? Like who the ghost is. But up clear, Ananya: Hmm is that. Akshay: we see the face of the ghost. We see that this is a person, not a creature. Like that was such Ananya: Hmm. Creature, yeah. Akshay: a strong writing choice, I would say, for sure. Ananya: Choice, absolutely. And what they do immediately is take away the idea that it could be Nurmira Matonkar's head. So Akshay: Head, yeah. Ananya: it's not a figment of her imagination that okay, now she's heard this story of Manjeet or her mind is making them up. We see the ghost before Urmira Matonkar has heard the story. So you know that the ghost exists independent of her imagination. Akshay: Mm. Correct. Ananya: So you're always on Urmila Matonkar's side in that sense. Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ananya: You're never like a chaal hekine. Akshay: Correct. Yeah. Ananya: Another idea I wanted to go into here is once you've set up the ghost, right? Every scene you have then is imbued with tension. Akshay: Mm. Ananya: So It is like you don't even need to do anything extra. Everything is just like, okay, the ghost will come now. You're looking at this from this perspective. Is this the ghost? Is the ghost? So it's a technique which I call minesweeper. Where you know you have established that there are little grenades underneath, there are mines, and you have to step carefully because you don't know when it'll blast. So the Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: same thing over here is now you've established the ghost. So the ghost could be anywhere. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: And now you have to be careful about where you step. So this Akshay: Dight. Ananya: is a technique you can really use in horror films. Because once the idea has been set in your audience's head, now you have the ability to play with them. But of course, with great power comes great responsibility. So you need to know when to use this, when to push it, when to pull it back. Because if you're Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: constantly scaring them, I mean also diminishing marginal utility, right? Because Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: you're not going to keep. getting those scares out of people. They'd be like, a chai you're constantly scaring me. This is not working. But Akshay: Correct. Ananya: this once you've set that fear, pulling back and forth is much easier because now you have a baseline of fear. Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I I wanna segue into this technique which I figured out, like how they did this, which is that how Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: can like obviously like f figuring out the push and pull is the key to writing this, but one way Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Akshay: you can define that is by establishing a pattern, you know? Like Ananya: Hm. Akshay: you sort of like established what the world of these characters are. So you have very repetitive shots of Ajadeevgan leaving the house in the morning, him getting Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: in the car, him driving to his office, setting his briefcase up. So in this mo and you see it repeatedly. So now whenever he goes to office, you know Ananya: Mm. Akshay: Urmila is alone in the house. So like there is the Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: more possibility of ghost coming to attack her. So Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: so this eeriness comes in even more because you know now, like, shit, like the pattern has been established, right? Like Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: Now you know that this is a problem. And what Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: establishing a pattern also does is that when it's broken, it will give you the maximum effect. So when Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: you know when like he's coming home, the day he's come home early, he's caught her in the act of when she is possessed. You know? Similarly, Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. Akshay: whenever he's going out, coming in, you see the clothes on the watchman. Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: And so when the pattern is broken, when he comes to see the watchman, his and the watchman has been killed, the shock affects more because the pattern has been established again. so Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Akshay: I think this is a I think this is something they do usually in horror films a lot, where initial few days go in establishment of what these characters are doing. Because it's also Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: another way of saying, this is the ghost observing them now. So you identify Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: when are they most vulnerable. So This ghost has Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: also identified that this woman wakes up in the middle of the night, calms down for some Lima reason, right? Like one day she wanted to watch TV, Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: one day she wanted to get water. Some of the other things keeps happening. And again, the pattern Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: is broken when she actually gets like sees the first visual of this ghost again. So, Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: yeah. And again, like I've seen this happen in like films like conjuring, where you know, some kid in the middle of the night will wake up repeatedly, you know? Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: Or like. the clock at every day stops at this time, you know? And you know, like Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: the people leave in the morning, come at night, whatever. Like that. The routine needs to be established for the audience, for the ghost boat. Ananya: Yeah, yeah. Nice. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: I like that ghost up creatures of routine and habits. Very Capricornian. Akshay: Yeah. True. Ananya: another thing I want to get into was using the push and pull was how to create push and pull, which is creating tension, diffusing it. So you bring the audience back to a place of calm. And then you bring it back again. Because if again you're constantly on a high of fear, fear, fear, you the emotion doesn't land anymore because it's only building. The only way to deliver a scare is to first bring an audience to a very safe space, to feel like, nothing is gonna happen to me, I'm okay, and then delivering that fear. So I think they do this very well in the crossing the threshold sequence. Where first you have the bit where Urmila Matonkar is in a dream, right? Akshay: Mm. Ananya: but you don't know she's in a dream. So she is being haunted by the ghosts, all of that, and you're like, crap, this is scary, blah, blah, blah. And then Guria wake and you realize she's in a dream. This wasn't happening. Okay, great. Akshay: Mm-hmm. Ananya: Tension is diffused. Then she goes down, she sits on the couch. Again, you have someone coming towards her. You're like, my god. Because you've established the ghost, you think that okay, now this is the ghost. That was a dream, so this is definitely a ghost. Have someone come on, it's actually Ajay Devgan. So Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: you feel even more safe as the audience. That okay, this is fine, nothing's happening here. Then you take them to the beach, and in the beach, A, she's with Ajay Devgan, B, there are lots of people around, C, there's broad daylight. So again, that's out of the house, exactly. Akshay: They're out of the house. Ananya: So big sense of safety is established that here to the ghost will never come, and then it's actually the ghost who comes. 'Cause the way she's running around and the way everyone on the beach has left and it's just her. Or like, So then the fear really lands, the scare really lands because you have established so much safety for your audience. So you have misdirected Akshay: Four. Ananya: them into a sense of safety and Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: then gotten delivered the scare. So this is a solid way of creating a scare in a horror movie. Akshay: Hmm. Very cool. Yeah, I never thought about it that way, but yeah, very cool. I wanna talk about I don't have technique for this. Probably like the technique is mirroring in the sense that you create two scenes in a film which are sort of mirror images, and those scenes can either happen with the same character when they have arked, or you do those scenes with different characters to see that how that same situation is affecting the other character now. So We first have the sequence which you just spoke about where Urmila Matonkar's character Swati is witnessing this haunting incident and then she realizes it was a ghost. Right? So Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: and this was a dream she wakes up to in the night. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: and later on in the film, a similar scene is constructed with Aja Devgan's character, where he is now observed or he is now cognizant of the fact what Urmila Matonkar as a character is capable of. Because he's seen that the watchman has died now. So when he's sitting on the sofa alone, he gets this feeling that she's come to him and she stabs him in the chest. Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. Akshay: And then he realizes that, this was a dream. So now Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: you've established that the same thing which was she went through, now he is going through. And Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: also the second thing, it keeps the genre again intact. Right? Like because Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: now the horrors is not just Again, for her, now it's transported Ananya: Hm. Akshay: from one character to the other now. So I thought like Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: this mirroring was done very interestingly. Ananya: yeah, very cool, very cool, yeah. Akshay: Yeah. And this immediately, this mirroring technique also leads me to a moment of callback where callback as we've established is a moment, a scene, a dialogue w between two characters which recurs in the movie after a certain point and which in which sort of like drives the point that whether the relationship between these two characters have changed or whether it has not changed at all. In this callback, which I'm going to talk about, the character the relationship has changed. Which is the first time she Swati's character, Mila Maton's character, tells Ajay Devekan about like, I think there's something wrong in this house, and I don't think it's like whatever, like she's feeling these things, and he says, Okay, and it goes away in a fleeting moment. The same incident, the same feeling, later on, Aja Devgan is feeling. And he tells this, and he spoke and he tells the psychiatrist about this that I don't need your help Ananya: Mm. Akshay: anymore. We have another person coming and taking care of my wife. And he says the same thing. So Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: now, even though this callback is with the same character, it's with Aja Devgan's character, but with different Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: people, he's we say that one was where he was not believing it and now he is the one on the receiving end of it. So the nature of relationship has changed here. Ananya: Yeah, yeah, very Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: cool. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: And I want to talk about one technique of creating suspense in this film, and Akshay: Okay. Ananya: which is seeing the consequences of an action through the lens of a person who will be most emotionally affected by it. And I know that's a very roundabout way of saying it, so I'll give an example. So Ajay Devgan is out smoking on the balcony, and in this time he doesn't realize that Urmila Matonkar is possessed and she's gone and left the house. You see Urmana Matonkar go down in the lift, and she goes and she's walking towards the watchman. You don't know what she's going to do, but you know that she's dangerous. So there's a sense of foreboding there that, god, something is gonna happen now. In the meantime, you go back to Ajayadevgan's character and he has realized now that Urmana Matunkar is not in the house and the door is open. So he is going to now check on her. He's leaving the house, and as he opens the door of the lift, Ulmana Matonka steps out and goes back into the house. So now he is suspicious. He's like something has happened. And you, as an audience, have seen that okay, she was walking towards this watchman. So something has happened. So then Ajay Devgan goes down, and through his eyes, then you see that she has killed the watchman. She's turned his neck the other way around. His face and body are not alive. And over here, we could have seen Urmila Matonkar do it. That would have been fine. You would have been scared. But you've already seen the ghost. You've Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: seen Urmila Matonkar be like possessed by it. But what you want now is for Ajay Devgan to feel scared. And because when he, a non-believer, is scared, the audience is also actually scared that there is an actual problem now because the one Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Fearless person is also now scared. So because we need to be on the same page and level of fear that he has, we see this through his lens. And also the intercutting creates suspense because we wait for the reveal to come from the most emotionally resonant lens. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Let's go into genrotropes next. Yeah. So I think the first genrotrope which we touched upon briefly was the lore. Right? Akshay: Hmm. Ananya: Every horror film usually has a lore surrounding the ghost because the idea of a ghost is someone who has unfinished business in this world. And they are still sticking around because they need to finish it. So that is why what that unfinished business is, is your backstory, your lore, and you have to have one in order to give the ghost motivation. Otherwise, your ghost can't be like chilling and they're not a poltergeist, essentially, you know, where a poltergeist Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Ananya: is someone who comes in and is like, ha ha, I will mess with you for fun. Because that's no fun, right? For a movie that doesn't give you Akshay: Yeah. Cool. Cool. Ananya: enough motivated conflict. So you have to have a lore in order to motivate a ghost. Another one I want to talk about in this genre of films is very common, which we saw in Bhul Bhalaya also, which is where the person who is being possessed or haunted is often first classified as a mental illness patient. Akshay: Hmm, hmm. Ananya: Because it is obvious that when this happens, your non a normal person is not going to believe that a haunting is possible. And to build on this, what they also do, they put this mental illness in, is because this stops this person from getting the help and the belief they actually need. This means your ghost can create more damage because there is no external intervention stopping them, because no one is believing them. And only once there's so much damage being caused and they really need to be helped to the point where they almost can't be helped, do people realize that it is a ghost. So the mental Akshay: Right. Ananya: illness is almost a stopgap arrangement for logic in order Akshay: Hmm. Ananya: to ensure that the ghost can create maximum damage and create conflict within your story. Akshay: Right. Yeah. I wanna talk about this trope. Again, I don't have a name for it, but it's somewhat we spoke about at Razi where there is one peculiar servant in this house, and that sort of like creates a mystery for the audience. Like we don't know Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: what that situation is like. So in this case, the house help in Achadevgan and Urmila Matonkar's house. Which the moment you see her, you know something is off about her. Right? Like you can't Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: pinpoint what, but there is always this moment of like sometimes the doorbell rings and she is there, you know? Or Ananya: Mm. Akshay: like just like she has this like force around in the house where you don't know what is wrong. Like me, we think that maybe she Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: knows something, she's seen something. So I think this is Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: common horror film trope that you know the Butler, the maid, the servant, or the house help was sort of around in this mansion or this house even before Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: the current characters in the film took place. And which comes Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: later on in the film where she says that I recognize this voice because this Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: was Manjeet's voice. I lived with her, right? so I Ananya: Yeah, yeah. Akshay: think that is something which happens a lot in these horror movies. And especi and especially Ananya: Autophones, yeah. Akshay: it's I think it makes sense because it's like These structures exist for longer than people who've stayed there, right? So what is the the constant factor in these structures is the the support staff, essentially, right? Because Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: they don't have that sort of movement allowed in life, right? Where they can't just lit go and choose a different city, right? Like Ananya: Mm-hmm. Akshay: so I think that system of it's a l it's a little bit a take on the class, right? Like like s like Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: These people just can't go out of here. Like they have to Ananya: Escape, yeah. Akshay: they can't escape here. This like I remember recently Ananya: Hm. Akshay: I saw this film Hokum, you know. And even in that, the main receptionist, like, is something he he who he knew that that, there is a problem in this hotel, but I can't leave this hotel, you know, like where will I go? Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Ananya: Yeah, I need this job. So like hmm. Akshay: Unlike all the other characters who can choose to run away from this place, right? But like these Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: This this this strata of characters can't. So they have to deal with the consequence Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: of that, you know. Ananya: Yeah. That's interesting you say that 'cause it also explains why she's also a little unhinged, like unsettling, like you feel like something's wrong with her. 'Cause she Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ananya: has been around this ghost a lot. Or Akshay: Yeah, exactly. Ananya: hm interesting. Yeah, nice. Akshay: Yeah. another trope which I have is the creepy doll. Uh-huh. Ananya: Yeah, yeah, I had that too. Akshay: which is you see generally like in these horror movies there is like some doll kind of thing or a toy or something which like it's just creepy to look at and that creates the Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: eeriness and horror of the film. sometimes Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: again these are objects not People who can move from place to place, objects generally stay in that place the way they are. Right? So Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Akshay: this this doll was there in the child's hands when he was being pushed down, right? and the doll will continue to live in that house, right? So Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: it's like an it's like a motif which you see in a lot of these horror Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: movies, and immediately you know, something is off. Ananya: Yeah. And I think the reason it works so well is also because you can't keep showing the creature, right? That gets visually boring. So Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: this like even Burbulaya, you have the pyles, the gumuru. Akshay: yeah. Ananya: And over here. So without creating that sense of visual fear, you create fear in your audience's mind. Yeah. Akshay: Another thing I'm gonna talk about because of this creepy doll trope, there is also the trope of the creepy kid. Which is that in horror movies, like a lot of them there is this presence of like kid or like, you know, something is wrong with the kid, the kid is possessed, the kid is the ghost. Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: a lot of it comes there. Like, you know, like mooks and films like It or The Shining or like You know, conjuring, like like the person who was attacked first is the kid, right? And like even in Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: this case, like the ghost, one of the ghosts f leaf figures. He w I don't think the kid is Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: haunting, essentially. But like one of the cree it's a creepy element to the film, right? Like because the Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: second ghost established in the house is the kid. So I think it's another like trope. And I think it's it works because you don't expect a kid to be scary, right? Like Like the general definition, like not definition Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: of perception of a child as like, it's cute or like the you don't associate horror as an element with the child. So the fact that Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Akshay: this kid is something wrong that it just gives us a feeling that, there's something seriously wrong here, you know? Ananya: wrong here exactly and I think it also allows you to have some more empathy for the ghost because kids are usually blameless right Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: so it really helps you understand the ghost's motivation as to why it's stuck around in this world so Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: you while you don't like their actions it does help you understand why they're around here and care about them in some Akshay: Correct. Totally. And I have one last trope which I want to talk about. Is that Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: while you're writing a horror movie or making a horror film, you have to remember to place yourself in the shoes of the character. Because there can be a major difference in what your character's actions are and what your audience expectation of them is. So I'll give you an example Ananya: Mmm. Akshay: in the sense that twice we've seen Swati's character, Urmila Matun's character. Wake up in the middle of the night and go down, you know. Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: And both the times she has encountered problems. She has seen the ghost twice. Now, the third Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: time, you know that you know when she wakes up in the middle of the night, you're wondering, Ma Jana, Nietzsche, why are you going, Nietzsche? Like, you know, that's the common question, right? But Ananya: Yeah. Hmm. Akshay: you have to think of that. That this is not the third consecutive night in this her life. It's like Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: You know how much can one person not go down, right? Like it's her home. She wants to know what is Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: wrong here, right? Like, or she just wants to go down. It is one of those things. So, Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: like, even though you might feel that, why are you answering this door? Why are you calling this person? Because you know this person has encountered problems. But you have to put yourself in the shoes of this character, right? Like they have Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: this is their reality now. So you have to explore that. So I think Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: because a lot of I a lot of horror films get this thing that just don't go down in the basement. But but Ananya: yeah, yeah, yeah. Akshay: imagine this is in your real life. Like if you know something is wrong there, like how can you not go and check it out, right? Like you will want to know. so yeah. Ananya: Yeah, yeah like how much will you not go to the bathroom at night? Akshay: Yeah, exactly. Like imagine if the ghost was in the bathroom then I you're not supposed to use the bathroom. Like yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And also the story wouldn't move forward then. Like, if they don't go there. If she's just Akshay: Yeah, correct, exactly. Yeah. Ananya: in her room, then horror ho gaya. Akshay: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like a lot I one thing about audience expectation is that the audience doesn't know that this is what they need. Like, you know Yeah. Ananya: You need, yeah, yeah. Akshay: Like even like when we write like Mismatch, you know, everybody's like they don't talk up like there is no engineering and they're not studying. But I'm like, if we Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: write a scene where they're just talking about code, will you watch? You know, like Ananya: Watch it. Akshay: yeah. Ananya: Cool. So that is all we have on Bhut, right? Akshay: Yeah, that is all we have on booth. Ananya: Great. So thank you everyone for tuning in another episode of the Breakdown Besties podcast. Next week, we will be doing Hindi medium. So if you have the ability to watch it beforehand, do give it a watch and then come back and break down the episode with us next Thursday. And you know, if you have any questions, recommendations, comments down in the comments, in our DMs, in our email, we are always listening to you and would love to create episodes and answer your questions for you. So we'll see you next Thursday on another episode of the Breakdown Vestis podcast. Bye.