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Female Firsts: Madame Sul-Te-Wan · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never told your protection of iHeartRadio, and today we are
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: thrilled to once again be joined by the wondrous, the magnificent,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the fabulous Eves for a female first. Thank you Eves
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: for joining us. Thank you for having me again. Yes,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: oh always always are excited to have you on. How
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: have you been, Eaves? It feels like forever, even though
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: I know it hasn't. But weeks feel like years and
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: the months feel like centuries at this point, so time
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: is all askew. But I've been doing well. I've been
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: trying to be present and every moment for the most part. Yeah, yeah,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: that's good. That's good. I feel like it's been really busy,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: and yesterday was like a I literally had a moment
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: where I thought of which had put a curse on me.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: But today it's going better. So like everything was like
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: things were falling off my ceiling, my internet wasn't working.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: It was it was a day, as they say, But
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I'm back feel better now, And it was a counterbalance
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: to having the perfect weekend as you said, and needed
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: to rebalance itself. So what do you do when you
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: think that a which has put a curse on you,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: like so I would I would think that ostensibly, if
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: you don't do anything about it, like the curse may
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: still be there. Well, that's vaguely threatening me. I'm not
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: saying that I did it or that I know who
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: did it. I'm just saying, is there any measure you
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: have in place to be able to get rid of
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: a curse? If you think that there's one there? I
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I'm so far just banking on hope and nothing has
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: fallen down yet today in the Internet's working and that's it.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: But you're right, I'm gonna have to reevaluate. Like later,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: I ended up on which TikTok, which is to talk
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: us with the witches, and they talk about how you
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: know if you're cursed and what you need to do.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: But it seems like unless you know exactly who cursed
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: you and what origin of like witchcraft they're from, you
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: really can't do anything about it. So you better hope
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: it was a white person's curse. That's what it seemed like.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, like these Asian curses that are really
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: like scary, So I'm gonna stay away from like making
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Asian people really angry also sounds kind of I don't
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: know it. I'm just there seemed to be a whole
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: like like deep dive and this like tree of these
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: are the types, and I'm like, oh my, okay, in
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: a second, Samantha and I are going to be like,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: let us tell you why we gathered. That's all here today. Whoa,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: That's actually what I've been doing for the last months
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: since I see you. Samantha and I have been getting
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: together in private and planning how exactly how we'll curse
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: you comes out. It was kind of hilarious and how
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: many things just like immediately back to back quite wrong,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: but well I'm impressed. If I want you, you got
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: my attention. No, we didn't well, I didn't speak. I
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: don't know which breath I TikTok teaches me. Oh boy,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: that's very much. Okay, all right, I'll take your word
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: for it for now. How are you, Samantha, Oh me,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: I am here. Uh that's that's yeah, that's I actually
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: got cleaned up today because I realized it says being
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: in pandemic life that I kind of sludge around. I
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: think for the most part today I was like, you
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: know what, let's actually act like I'm going to work
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: and take a shower and get cleaned up, maybe moisturize
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: my face, and time take my medications and time which
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't actually but all these things and like, so
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: for today, I feel like it feels like a good start.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: So and and being here with y'all and having this
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: long I feel like we've talked for a while now,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: and I loved that. I love that we get to
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: talk and catch up. So it feels like a good day.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Oh nice, Yeah, that is nice. That is something that
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I'm slowly working on. Two because I've just during the pandemic,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: have been like I'll fix that later, or I'll deal
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: with that later, and now it's time to start dealing
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: with some of the things. Forever things have become urgent.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, maybe it's the aura in your house being like, hey,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: you neglect the these things, so we're just gonna fall
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: upon and we know you're easily startled, so this will
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: be fun. It's true. I kind of wish we had
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: a video of all these things and you, oh my gosh, it,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: depending on the music he played, it could have been
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: like comedic or horrified. I can't even describe it. It It
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: was wild WHOA Moving on, I am excited for the
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: person you brought for us to discuss today, Eves, who
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: are we talking about? So today we're talking about Nellie Crawford,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: who is also more famously known as Madame Soultawan. So
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Madame Soultawan is the name that I'll be using throughout
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: this episode to refer to her. And she was the
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: first black American to be hired by a major movie
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: producer on a continuing basis and that was throughout Hollywood history,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: so she has a super super long history and experience
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: in Hollywood. But oftentimes she wasn't uncredited in the movies
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: that she was in, so there may even be more
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: roles that she played throughout her life that we don't
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: know about. And many of the roles that she did
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: play were uncovered in different ways through different researchers work.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: So super grateful to be able to know more about
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Madame soul Towan. And her story is really interesting, so
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to getting into it. Yeah. Yeah, it's
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: a fascinating one for sure, So it shouldn't get started. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: let's so, there are discrepancies around some of the details
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: of her early life, so around her birthday and her parents,
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  Speaker 1: But as far as we know, she was born on
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  Speaker 1: March seventh, eighteen seventy three, in Louisville, Kentucky. Her father
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: was named Silas Crawford Wan, and her mother was named
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Mary Kennedy. There are other names that her mother has
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: been credited as having, but this is her mom's name
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: that was on her death certificate. So her father was
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: supposedly a traveling Hindu minister. But that's one of those
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: things that there are discrepancies around. As we know in
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: other episodes that we talked about on Female First, there's
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of myth making that people, the people who
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: were talking about themselves have created around their lives for
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: different reasons. There were some sources that said Soultwan was
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: of art, that her father, Soultawan's father was of mixed
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: race like Indian or Hawaiian, but she is normally considered
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  Speaker 1: a Black American. The origin of that name sold to
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Wan isn't completely clear, so for people listening, they know
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: that it's spelled Sula te wa n, So there is
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: some mythmaking around why exactly that was her name, why
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: she chose to refer to herself in that way. If
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: you go look at her listings and the places that
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: she was credited. It that is the name that is used,
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  Speaker 1: but it and the origin of her name, her skin color,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: and then that mystery around her heritage that we just
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: talked about allowed her to access roles for a different
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: range of ethnicities. So in terms of the work that
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: her mother did, she did laundry for actresses, and Sultiwan
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: would help her mom deliver the laundry so that put
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: her in close proximity to the acting world. She would
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: drop the laundry off at the stage door, and then
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: she was allowed to stay and see the show. She
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: saw actresses like Mary Anderson and Fanny Import who will
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: come up later in her story as well, and helping
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  Speaker 1: get some doors open. She would copy what the actors
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: did at school, and she drew inspiration from what she
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  Speaker 1: saw and began desiring to be come an actor herself. So,
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  Speaker 1: as we see and so many of these people's stories,
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  Speaker 1: people's parents and the things that their parents got them
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  Speaker 1: into really encourage them to go after what they wanted
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  Speaker 1: or just to have interest in these things, and this
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  Speaker 1: was the case in Sultawan's story. But at the same time,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: acting and dance lessons were costly and her mother couldn't
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  Speaker 1: really afford them, so the mayor of Louisville, James Whylan,
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  Speaker 1: offered her a part in a contest at Buckingham Theater.
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  Speaker 1: She was one of many black girls who tried out
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  Speaker 1: to win a prize for being the best buck and
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  Speaker 1: wing dancer. So buck and wing dancing is just the
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: type of dancing that has like flips, stomps, wide arm
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: and leg movements and other movements, so it will look
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  Speaker 1: familiar to a lot of us as it was an
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  Speaker 1: early form or kind of a precursor to tap dancing.
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  Speaker 1: Soultawan did end up winning the contest, and that earned
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: her a granite dishpan in Granite spoon, at least according
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: to the book The Negro Trailblazers of California. So after
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  Speaker 1: that point, her mother let her do stage work occasionally,
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  Speaker 1: and they eventually moved to Cincinnati, Ohio, so that they
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: could move her entertainment career fort So in Cincinnati, Soultawan
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: worked at the Dime Museum, and she worked at theaters,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: and she eventually joined a company and called the Three
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Black Cloaks. She did work under the moniker Creole Nail
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  Speaker 1: and She gained a lot of acting experience in Cincinnati
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  Speaker 1: and started her own company, which was called the Black
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: four hundred. That was a group that was made up
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  Speaker 1: of sixteen performers and twelve musicians, and she toured with
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: them throughout the Eastern United States and then she formed
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: another company called the Rare Back Minstrels. Through all the
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: touring work that she did, she met Robert Reid Conley.
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  Speaker 1: The two of them had three sons, though there were
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: some sources that claimed that they had more children. They
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  Speaker 1: ended up moving to Arcadia, California, but Conley is reported
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  Speaker 1: to have left the family only a few weeks after
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  Speaker 1: Sultawan had their third son, So that created a lot
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: of financial economic challenges for her, as if it weren't
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: already hard enough for her to find work. But she
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  Speaker 1: wanted to continue her acting career and she needed employment.
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  Speaker 1: So the Associated Charities of Los Angeles ended up being
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: able to help her out. They got her family a
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: place to stay in Los Angeles and she ended up
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: finding work at the Pier Theater in Venice, California, which
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: wasn't the best paying, but it did help her get
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: some bills paid and it was heart finding acting work.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: She was denied opportunities and she wasn't making much progress
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: and money in that field, but she continued pursuing her
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: acting goals nonetheless. And this is where filmmaker DW. Griffith
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: comes into the picture. So there are different reports of
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: her first meeting with Griffith. They swing from her being
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: confident and presenting herself as this exotic and multi ethnic person,
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  Speaker 1: kind of hamming up you know, this is I'm a
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  Speaker 1: day of soult to one and these are all the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: things that I have to reports of her being kind
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: of self deprecating and being more so on the begging side,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: saying please, I really need this for my children, you know.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Either way, he hired her pretty much immediately and she
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: is reported to have started out making three dollars a day.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: She was first a maid for the white women actors
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: who were employed at that fine arts film company. And
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: if you hear that name d W. Griffith, it probably
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: rings a bell that most people probably know him for
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: the Birth of a Nation. That was her first on
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: screen role, and she played a maid there. When The
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Birth of a Nation was first released, black people in
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: LA protested the film for its depictions of black people
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: and asked for the movie to be censored. And Sultiwan's
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: role in this story was that there was blowback who
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: for all of that that was directed at Sultiwan as
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: she was the only black woman who acted in the film,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: and she was accused of instigating the protest, and she
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: soon was let go from the studio. She fought back
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: against this accusation and her dismissal, and the folks at
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: the studio then backpedaled and said that a white actor
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: had accused her of stealing a book. Anyway, she hired
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: a lawyer and she wrote a letter to Griffith and
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: she was soon rehired as an actor rather than a maid. Eventually,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: she did get a contract with the studio, and this
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: made her the first black American woman to get a
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: contract with the major movie studio. And she did stay
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: close friends with Griffith, even with that conflict between the
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: two of them and of course Griffith's controversial history himself
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: in his filmmaking and the racist work that he created.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: But according to sources, as her children even called him Papa,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: that's how close they were. But nonetheless, from nineteen fifteen
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: and into the nineteen thirties, Sultawan appeared in many many films.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: She started off in the silent era and was able
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: to transition pretty well into the talkies era. She was
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: in movies like Tarzan of the Apes in nineteen eighteen,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Uncle Tom's Cabin in nineteen twenty seven, and even King
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Kong in nineteen thirty three, and in nineteen thirty seven
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: she played Titchuba, so speaking of witchcraft and getting curses
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: off of people that is relevant to not only this one.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: She also had similar roles in other films as well,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: and the film Made of Salem she played Tisiba, who
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: was an enslaved woman who was accused of practicing witchcraft
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: during the Salem witch trials. This was one of the
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: roles that she got a little bit more attention for,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: but much of her work went largely unacknowledged, especially by
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: mainstream media. There were as more minor media and Black
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: American medias that did credit her roles in places like
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: The New York Times also noted her work and talked
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: about her as an actor, but in many of her
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: roles she remained uncredited. She played characters like servants, enslaved people,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: and cooks, and she often acted In these Mammy archetypal roles,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: she appeared with actors who were popular at the time
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: like Lillian g Dorothy Divor, and May Marsh and in
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: her role she was often depicted as subservient or a
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: moral so she was presented in sharp contrast to these
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: white actors kind of this person who was in the
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: background are always to play second fiddle and subservient to
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: the other people that she was acting in roles with.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: She did appear in movies into the nineteen forties, though
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: not as many movies then as she did appearing in
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: previous decades, and she took some roles in the nineteen fifties,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: but by then the work was starting to slow down.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: In terms of her personal life, she did marry again.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: She married a Frenchman named Anton Evanthor and in nineteen
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: fifty four there was kind of a change in direction
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: in terms of her acting work. She acted in a
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: minor role that was also uncredited in Carmen Jones, which
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: was a musical by Auto Preminger that featured a black cast,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: and in that she played Dorothy Dandridge's grandmother, which led
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: to rumors that she was Dorothy Dandridge's grandmother, but that
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: isn't true. She died on February first, nineteen fifty nine,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: and then after her death there was a banquet to
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: honor her and she is buried at Valhalla Memorial Park
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Cemetery in la And she was honored in the Black
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Filmmaker's Hall of Fame by being inducted into it in
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. So there is a long history. There's
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: a lot that we can we can watch. There's a
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: lot that we have to watch about her that is
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: still left. And because her uncredited roles have now been
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: attributed to her, you know, we can go back and
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: look at some of those things and see the kind
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: of work that she did and all the flourish that
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: she have the and the turbines that she wore, and
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: the braids and the appearances that she had, which is
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: still cool. Yeah, And I'm really interested in, as you
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: said at the top, kind of the research that people
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: had to do to find her in these uncredited roles,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: kind of piecing together and what else what else we
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: might find. Yeah, Yeah, I think that is kind of
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: a bittersweet thing or like a blessing and a curse
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: not to me too. On the nose because it's like, yeah,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: we have history of her that we know about now,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: but then there are some things that still may be uncovered.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: But also there's this kind of layer of her being
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: not visible in her actual roles, So she was written
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: into the roles to be this invisible person or this
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: person who was more so as a prop in the
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: work that she was doing, even if that wasn't always
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: the case in her performances, and that really wasn't the
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: case for all of her things, like the digibal role
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: was a lot more prominent than some others were, but
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: they're at the same time, the work of those people
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: uncovering also tie into that kind of similar at the
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: same time her being super visible when playing so many
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: different roles and being also invisible in the way that
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: the media didn't often recognize her work at all, and
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: the roles that she played themselves. So yeah, it's I'm
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: grateful to all the people who did find these older
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: sources and documents and reviews that mentioned her being and
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: works and the scenes that were taken out of works
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: that Sultan Mom was in. Yes, yes, it's always thanks
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: to all the people doing the research so we can
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: we can talk about people. Yeah, it's such a fascinating story,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: and I do love the mythmaking aspects you discussives that
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: does come up in a lot of these and it's
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: always thanks to you for vying in these people to
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: us appreciate it so much. Yeah, I'm happy to How
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: beautiful is it to cease how much myth making is
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: part of people's stories, to see that they have the
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: imagination and the ability to because I think future side
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: is something that is so difficult for people who are
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: dealing with difficulties in the present moment, you know, speaking
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: of being present, It's like when you're dealing with so much.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: You're dealing with children you have to take care of,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: dealing with racism, dealing with having parents who were enslaved
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: at one point and that history and the trauma that
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: comes with that alone, and then being born into a
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: world where you have to deal with your own difficulties,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: and moving across the United States, trying to get into
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: the entertainment fieldtainment being its own fraught thing. So the
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: history of entertainment for black people, you know, just her
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: being on set with people who were white but we're
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: in black face, who were playing these larger roles than
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: she was, her being the person who was on the
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: receiving end of all the ire around the protest for
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: something that rightfully deserved protests like the birth of a nation.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: So interesting how it was this kind of like, well, free, well,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: this is very related to things that we go through today,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: but free speech has of course always been an issue.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: But it being about free speech, but the people who
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: are protesting it, you know, rightfully. So it's it's kind
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: of this meta thing where there was an argument against well,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: I have free speech, so I get to make this film.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Yet when it's protested, all of that falls back on Soultawan,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: one person who just so happened to be in the
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: line of crossfire. Is a whole thing unto itself. But
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: in the midst of her going through all of these things,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: she still had this kind of future site to call
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: herself soul to Wan, something that ended up likely getting
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: her a lot more roles or a different kind of role,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: or being able to have a different a wide range
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: of roles. And I think that's very I think it
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: can be inspirational, or even if it's not inspirational, because
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I can feel a little bit dramatic, like it's something
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: that is worthy of thinking about because she was able
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: to get so many different roles and she was able
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: to use this aura that she created around herself and
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: this persona that she created for herself in her work
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: through something like naming, and I think that's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: it is definitely something something worth thinking about. And I
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: know we've talked about this before. I still want to
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: come back and do this eaves where we were talking about,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: like you know, in the time of social media and
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: having your privacy and all those things of like, is
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: that kind of myth making as easy to do today
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: there's all this stuff, But I do think that because
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: there is so much misinformation and disinformation, it's still possible. Yeah. Yeah,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: but it's interesting to kind of think about. Yeah, I
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: think it is. I think, oh, that's it. I think
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that's it into this conversation. But yeah, we should revisit that. Yes,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you have to keep lists that we need to come
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: back to. I know, I know, it's just interesting to
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: think about like future future eaves is like trying to research,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: like us for instances that kind of stuff together. I
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: don't know, but yes, we would love to have you
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: back to talk about that in the future and yeah,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: thanks again as always East for bringing this story to us.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: We're welcome. Yes, and where can the good listeners find you?
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at not Apologizing. You
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: can also find me on Twitter at Eve's jeffco or
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: you can just go to Eves Jeffcote dot com. That
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: is y V E S J E F F c
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: oat dot com and you can get to all of
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: the other things from there. You can also find me
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: on many, many other episodes of Stuff Mom Never Told You,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: doing this female first series on women history who were pioneers,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: were trailblazing and did some things first with a lot
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: of context around them. Always appreciated and very much needed. Yes,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and I do think we're coming up on a big milestone.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: I keep saying that, but I'm pretty sure so do
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Champagne and Cheese Kick. I mean, we should well. In
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: the meantime, Thanks, It's always Eves listeners. If you would
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: like to find us, you can or email Stuff Media
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us
• 25:22
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• 25:25
  Speaker 1: TikTok at stuff I've Never Told You, or on YouTube
• 25:27
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• 25:29
  Speaker 1: to our superproducer Christina and our executive producer Maya and
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: our contributor extraordinaire at Joey. Thank you and thanks to
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: you for listening stuff I never told you protection I
• 25:41
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• 25:42
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• 25:44
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