Latest / The Curve / How to Build Wealth, Confidence, and Community with Caitlyn Kumi

Transcript

How to Build Wealth, Confidence, and Community with Caitlyn Kumi · The Curve

0:00
To raise in the curve, a podcast designed to teach you everything that you need to know to be better with your money.
0:04
Come and learn alongside me, Sophie Hallwright, a total beginner from the finance expert Victoria Harris.
0:10
So I've asked all of the questions you wish you could so that finance, investing and growing your wealth actually makes sense.
0:16
Yes, it's expert education, but with promise will not be boring.
0:19
And in the wise words of share,
0:21
My mom said to me,
0:22
You know sweetheart, one day you should settle down and marry a rich man.
0:26
And I said, Mom, I am a rich man.
0:28
Come and talk and learn and laugh with us because together we really can raise the curve.
0:34
It feels weird doing an introduction for this podcast because if I'm being totally honest,
0:39
I recorded this when I was on my way back to New Zealand from London, where I am again now.
0:48
And I had just broken up with someone I was really not good.
0:54
I was really sad. I was unhealthy.
0:58
I was just in a bad place, honestly.
1:00
And I was flying through New York on my way back to New Zealand.
1:04
I spent a week there.
1:06
I was staying with family friends.
1:07
And the purpose of the trip was to see New York.
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I'd never been there.
1:11
But also to meet some amazing people and for the podcast and outside of that.
1:18
But I just like,
1:20
I was listening back to this error.
1:22
And thinking about where I was at the time.
1:25
And I felt like it was a really good opportunity to just share what you see on social media.
1:34
What you hear in podcasts is a tiny glimpse of our lives and what goes on.
1:38
And I know that you're not here to hear about like our deep personal dilemmas or the boring stuff that happens.
1:44
But I just felt like it was an important reminder that it's not all shiny going to New York for work.
1:50
Sounds amazing.
1:51
I was, in fact, incredibly upset and just, you know, the high line is this like it's almost like a.
1:59
It's almost like, I guess I don't know if it's a trail like a railway kind of anyway.
2:04
It's a converted like walkway that sits just above the city.
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So when you do the railway or the highway, whatever it's called, it's called the high high line.
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Sorry. And I, it was a beautiful day.
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The sun was shining.
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It was absolutely freezing because keep in mind this was in like January.
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So it was honestly maybe negative five degrees.
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And I was walking the high line.
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High line.
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God, I keep forgetting what it's called.
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And boiling my eyes out before this interview.
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Like absolutely hysterically crying to the point where I'm surprised,
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the stranger didn't pull me aside and be like, you okay?
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I was not in a good way.
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I'm pretty sure I was listening to Taylor Swift.
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And I was just like, yeah, it was just one of those moments where I thought
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from the outside, this probably looks like I'm living the dream.
3:01
You know, I'm flying from London to Auckland.
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I'm spending a week in New York.
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I'm doing all these interviews.
3:07
But behind the scenes, let me tell you.
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It was not good.
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So I did my best in this interview.
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I'm not going to lie, it might not have been my best work.
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I was distracted and sad.
3:22
And yeah, not in a good place.
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But I felt like there was enough gems in this conversation
3:27
that I really wanted to still put it out.
3:30
So Caitlin Kumi is who you're about to listen to.
3:34
She is a New York-born American.
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And anyway, she works in corporate.
3:40
So she has a full-time job where she earns really good money.
3:44
But on the side, she's founded this business called Missing Power Her.
3:48
And it's essentially a global community of women who want to learn more
3:52
about how to grow their wealth, invest, advance their careers.
3:57
And she really tries to cultivate a sense of community
4:00
that it doesn't matter if you have 500,000 followers or five.
4:04
You can come to these spaces and you can connect with like-minded people.
4:08
And she's lovely and so talented and what she's created is amazing.
4:13
And we spoke about so many different things in this conversation.
4:15
So we talked about actually the moment in which she realized
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she was in like a networking event very early on in her career.
4:24
And she had this like CD old man say something
4:29
like wildly and appropriate.
4:31
And it was so enough to that that she decided she needed to start a community
4:35
and create spaces that are inclusive and supportive and not super-gendered
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and quite sexist.
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So that is really where Missing Power Her started.
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It's just to help women thrive and feel more confident.
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One of the things that I thought was really interesting
4:51
in this conversation that I feel a lot of people will get value out of
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is she explained this concept of like it's almost there's like four or five
5:02
different types of people that she talks about needing.
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You need to have them in your corner if you're wanting to advance your career
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and it's things like mentors and coaches, but sponsors and strategists
5:12
and all these things I hadn't really heard of.
5:13
So I think that's a really insightful and interesting piece of this conversation
5:19
and something that I've thought about a lot since.
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Like how can I think of myself and my career
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and the way that I approach work?
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Almost as if I'm a little business and I don't mean the curve
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but I mean myself as a self-contained business, you know?
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Like telling the people that you want to know when you've made a win
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and I don't mean just like on LinkedIn saying things like,
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hey Lydia just wanted to let you know that I met my metric
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because you know like not boring stuff but more, I don't know,
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so you get like a feature somewhere or you know you finish some project
5:55
that you're really proud of and I don't know, it could be anything
5:58
but I think the way she spoke about it made a lot of sense to me.
6:01
In the sense that we kind of I guess approach the curve
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and our business in a similar way we've gotten investors now
6:08
and so how we share information about our wins and our things
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that haven't gone well and our financials and everything like that
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we share with our investors and how she spoke about this particular piece
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when it comes to your career and how you can advance
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and I thought was really interesting because it's almost like thinking
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of yourself as a business and updating those people that you want to have in your corner
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so that's really interesting.
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But I hope you enjoy the episode.
6:35
I just wanted to give a bit of a preamble for it.
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I think there's not a huge amount of like deep investing conversations
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or like super intense personal finance chat
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but we did talk quite a bit about money and relationships
6:50
and financial red flags because Caitlin is currently dating
6:54
and trying to figure out how she navigates that space
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as someone that's really confident with her money.
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So yeah, it was a really interesting conversation
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and I hope you enjoy it.
7:03
Firstly, thank you so much for coming in.
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I feel like I was walking into this interview this morning
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along the streets as the sun was rising around all of the incredible buildings
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here in New York and I say this is such a pinch me moment
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being able to speak to people like yourself
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and to be purchased up in New York it feels all a bit strange
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so thank you so much for coming in.
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Oh thank you, I feel so special.
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It's such a treat to have different perspectives
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and to be in a completely different country with people who have unbelievably
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different experiences with money and career and everything.
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So where I wanted to start was you're going in background
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in terms of where you grow up and also how your parents raised you
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with relation to career and money and finances.
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I just love to hear, yeah, what your childhood was like.
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I love this question.
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So I actually grew up in Germantown, Maryland.
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It's one of the most diverse suburbs in the nation.
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If you think Washington DC, the capital, where our president is,
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Germantown is about 45 minutes to an hour away from there.
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So I was like right in the heart of the nation's capital
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and growing up there was really transformative for me.
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I like to say it's the UN of like the United States
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because there are so many people from diverse backgrounds
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and I identify as African American or in the United States
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we would say black.
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And for me growing up in that environment,
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it was so powerful to see people who look like me
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who were successful, had amazing careers.
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And I really do think that had an impact on what I thought
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about myself, my perception of myself,
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what I could do for myself financially.
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So I definitely think it really shaped my beliefs
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and really helped me feel confident and empowered
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to get a high paying job one day.
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To be able to manage my money one day
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because I saw people who look like me doing it
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and that's where I really realized the power of representation,
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exposure when it comes to accelerating
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or financial journey.
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I love what you said about the representation piece
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because I do think that when you're in any minor group,
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you know for me I've recently found out
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a part of my brain works very differently
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and like I gravitate towards people who can relate to me
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and I think that whether it's race, gender, sexuality,
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whether you are not able-bodied,
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there's so much power and seeing other people thrive
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who can identify with parts of who you are.
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And you know what you said about having successful people
9:25
around you and being able to know
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that was possible for you.
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I mean, Miss Empower Her is essentially a community
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for women to feel empowered and supported
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and I think that that's just something that
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there's not enough of was there a gap in between
9:41
where you are now and where you were
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that you felt disempowered.
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I'll never forget my first networking of it.
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I met with a partner.
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I believe he worked at a consulting firm
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and I was asking him for advice for breaking into the industry
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and I just remember him making the statement
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that still sticks with me to this day
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where he just cut me off and he was like,
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you know what, you're really pretty.
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You shouldn't worry about all that stuff.
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Like you can just marry rich like my sister did.
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And I just remember feeling shocked.
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What do you even say to that?
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It's so shocking that you almost think is he joking?
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No, it's real life.
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It's real life.
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And I think in that moment, I realize that one,
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you can't control other people's perceptions of you.
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You can control your own narrative.
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And I knew at the end of the day while I am beautiful,
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I'm also smart and I'm intelligent.
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And one, probably not the best to work at his company
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because I don't necessarily like the culture there.
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And two, I need to find mentors.
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I need to find sponsors who won't push that narrative on me
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and who will encourage me to think bigger, dream bigger.
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And it also made me realize that
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there are probably so many women who have those experiences
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where they go into spaces where there may not be a lot of women.
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And how are they going to find the support and resources
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to thrive in their careers?
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So I wanted to build a community that supported them
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with their personal and professional development
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also because I realized through that journey
11:12
where I was gaining confidence in the professional world
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so much of getting that job,
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getting the opportunities comes down to confidence.
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So I didn't want to just build a community that's like,
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here's how you do your resume, here's how you interview.
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Also teaching women the skills to gain that confidence
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so that when moments like that happen
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because they will unfortunately, it doesn't shake them up.
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They can still power through.
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God, I really do think actually,
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when I was researching for this interview,
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I was thinking about the idea of confidence.
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And, you know, I've done the classic written words of affirmation
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and stuck them up in my mirror,
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but I don't think that really gets to the root.
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It can kind of band-aid it,
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but it's not creating lasting empowerment
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or something that's going to kind of stand the test of time
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when you get tested by men like that.
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Is there any universal advice or suggestions
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that you have for people who are less than I think?
12:05
Shit, I really don't have much confidence.
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That is a great question, I think.
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It's hard because everyone has a different personality,
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but I would always say the one thing you have to do
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is get over your fail of failure.
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So I can share an example from my experience.
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I am deeply afraid of public speaking.
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Me too, but it's so weird
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because when I was looking at you online,
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you public speak all the time.
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You know, like it's a part of your career.
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Yes, and I had to do that.
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That's why I got on TikTok.
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That's why I got on Instagram
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because I realized I'm growing this woman's community.
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I was getting all these press features
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and I was like, I don't want to appear nervous.
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I don't appear anxious.
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So when it started,
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I really started with the ultra-ego.
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I thought about what's a public speaker that I really admire.
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And for me, that was Esa Rae.
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She has a show on HBO called insecure.
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She's really intelligent, but she's also so personable.
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And I knew when people see me,
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they see this super serious person.
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And I'm like, I'm just actually quite introverted
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and reserved even though on social,
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I probably appear more extroverted.
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So I started to study people like Esa Rae.
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And then over time,
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I would continue to put out more videos.
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Every time there was a speaking opportunity on a panel,
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I would say yes.
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And over time, I felt more comfortable.
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I came into my skin and I'm not gonna lie.
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I still get nervous.
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I still practice what I'm going to say
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or think about my talking points.
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But I also have trained myself when I go into interviews
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when I show up online.
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At the end of the day, when I'm doing my online videos,
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I just pretend it's a FaceTime call.
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When I'm doing a podcast,
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I pretend I'm talking to a friend and auntie.
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And I think that's what helps me feel
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a little bit less insecure or overwhelmed.
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But I would say continuing to put yourself
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in positions to fail.
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So applying for that grant,
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applying for that internship,
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applying for that job.
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It is scary,
14:00
but then also remembering,
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if you want to win,
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nobody's seeing the 99 rejections.
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They're just seeing that win.
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I this year got Forbes 30 under 30.
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Congratulations.
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By the way, that's incredible.
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Thank you so much.
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But that wouldn't have happened
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if I didn't put myself out there.
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I didn't tell my mentors.
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This is something that I really want.
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It takes courage to put yourself out there.
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It takes courage to send that note.
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And I think a lot of people
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won't have those opportunities
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because they're afraid to even make the ass.
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They're afraid to put themselves out there.
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And doing that and being okay with a no
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or being okay with being ghosted over time,
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I think goes that confidence.
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It goes to the resilience.
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No, you're so right.
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And actually, it's, you know,
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you hear every great,
14:44
successful person speak about their failures.
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It's so common.
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You never hear someone up on stage
14:50
who's incredibly successful saying,
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this was easy.
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It was a smooth sailing journey.
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I didn't have any rejections.
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Like it's never the case.
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So it's kind of like you have to decide.
15:00
If that's what you want,
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it comes with all of that baggage
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and all of, you know,
15:04
all of the rejection, all the times
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that you muck up or do the wrong thing
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because that's taking you a step closer to
15:11
whatever confidence is
15:13
whether that's with your personal finances,
15:14
your career, whatever.
15:15
When it comes to picking a mentor
15:17
or being a mentor,
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what do you think are the most important things
15:21
for people to either think about or look for?
15:24
And in your experience,
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what have your mentors given you?
15:27
Why is that such an important piece
15:29
for your journey to where you're trying to get to?
15:32
Oh, man, these questions are amazing.
15:34
Oh, really?
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God, I feel like I'm like,
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I'm aware we don't have all the time in the world.
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So I feel like I'm worth vomiting
15:39
all of these questions.
15:40
Thank you.
15:41
No, no, no.
15:42
No, I think you're really going to help a lot of people
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with these questions.
15:46
For me, when I think about mentorship,
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I actually think of the spectrum of sponsorship.
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So I think where people go wrong with mentors and sponsors
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is they don't really understand
15:58
the spectrum of sponsorship
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because people want to show up differently.
16:02
Can you say sponsor, do you name like brand or people?
16:06
It can be both.
16:07
A sponsor is really in that advocate role.
16:10
I think where people go wrong
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is they try to get an all-in-one
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and people don't always want to be an all-in-one.
16:17
So I like to break it down
16:19
into mentor, connector, strategizer, sponsor.
16:23
That way I can really understand
16:25
what role the person wants to play.
16:27
I also do that with myself.
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When someone asks me, can you be my mentor?
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Can you be this to me?
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I might realize that I'm not in the best position
16:35
to be their mentor, but you know what?
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I can be your connector.
16:38
I can be your strategizer.
16:40
I can be your coach.
16:42
Or in some cases, I can be your sponsor.
16:44
I think it's really important to know what role people play.
16:47
I think that will help you have better relationships
16:50
overall, especially when it comes to expanding
16:52
your professional network.
16:54
I don't even think that those terms have been really used
16:57
in Australia or New Zealand or the UK.
16:58
I've never really heard them.
16:59
I mean, I've heard mentor.
17:01
Can we just quickly define what all five of those are?
17:03
So a mentor, obviously, is somebody
17:05
who can be there for you to bounce ideas,
17:08
to give advice from their perspective,
17:10
what they've lived,
17:11
what would the difference be between that and like a coach?
17:14
Yeah, so a coach,
17:16
they're really giving you those actionable tips.
17:18
They're stopping and starting with you
17:20
when you go wrong,
17:22
helping you work through those problems.
17:24
When you think about a connector,
17:26
that is someone who is making those introductions,
17:29
connecting the dots.
17:30
So if you had this podcast episode,
17:33
you maybe wanted to get to me,
17:35
you find that we have a mutual on LinkedIn or Instagram.
17:38
You're asking that person to connect you to me
17:41
in order for you to be more successful with your goal.
17:44
And then the last being a sponsor,
17:47
these are often people in high, high positions
17:49
or extremely influential.
17:51
They might not always have the time
17:52
or bandwidth to be your mentor,
17:54
but they still want to support you.
17:56
They still want to invest in you.
17:57
And they might be the ones to give you that job opportunity.
18:01
They might be the ones to help you get funding
18:04
for your business if you're trying to raise capital.
18:07
I think it's also important to remember
18:09
with sponsors in these high positions of power.
18:12
Sometimes they're often people
18:13
who want to give back and pay it forward.
18:16
But when they're a sponsor,
18:17
they're very careful about who they extend
18:20
their name to their brand to.
18:22
And I always like to say everyone
18:24
wants winners on their team.
18:25
So the more you can show your winner to your sponsor,
18:28
the more they're going to want to invest in you.
18:30
Because they might be busy
18:32
and they might not always have the time.
18:34
It might feel like, wow,
18:35
it's really hard to build this relationship
18:37
with this person over time.
18:39
So what I like to do with my sponsors
18:40
is to keep them up to date as I'm making wins.
18:43
I know I will maybe talk to them once a year,
18:46
twice a year, just because of their schedule.
18:47
But if I get a media feature,
18:49
I will send that to them.
18:51
If I make a win in my business,
18:52
I'll send that to them.
18:54
You just really want to make sure
18:55
you're keeping them in the loop.
18:57
Because then they feel like, wow, okay,
18:59
I've made this great opportunity for her.
19:02
I've helped her, you know,
19:03
get on Forbes certainly under 30
19:05
or I've helped her get this big sponsor for her business.
19:08
I'm seeing her growth over the years.
19:11
That's really how you keep your sponsor engaged,
19:13
which I don't think a lot of people talk about.
19:15
It's quite interesting because what you're talking about
19:17
is really similar to what we've experienced.
19:18
We raised capital last year for the first time.
19:21
And it's almost like trading yourself as a business, isn't it?
19:24
It's trading yourself and your mentors, your coaches,
19:27
your connectors and your sponsors
19:29
as almost this network that you want to keep updated,
19:33
almost like a business update, but a personal update.
19:36
Which I've never heard anyone talk about before.
19:38
It's like creating a web of people
19:40
and being really specific and targeted about who you pick
19:43
for different roles.
19:45
Because everyone offers something different.
19:47
You often talk about financial literacy
19:49
as a real form of empowerment.
19:51
I would love to know what personal experiences lead you
19:55
to realize the importance of understanding money,
19:57
saving, investing.
20:00
Did you go through a journey of,
20:01
oh, wow, I feel so much better or more empowered
20:04
when I have XYZ in place?
20:07
Yeah, I think similar to what we talked about
20:09
a little bit earlier,
20:11
growing up Ghanaian American
20:13
and growing up in the States.
20:15
For me, my mom,
20:17
my dad always really emphasized the importance
20:19
of women having their own money.
20:21
Just because it gives you so much freedom,
20:23
freedom to walk away from a bad relationship,
20:27
it gives me that security.
20:28
Like if I'm not feeling safe in environment,
20:31
I can afford to take an Uber without having
20:33
that financial stress.
20:35
Also having that exposure.
20:37
So when I was in university,
20:38
I was a part of entrepreneurship accelerator programs.
20:42
And with that, you get to be paired with mentors
20:44
who are angel investors who have built
20:46
these successful businesses.
20:48
And I think seeing other people,
20:51
seeing other women be successful
20:54
really inspired me to really get my stuff together
20:56
when it comes to my financial journey.
20:59
In terms of starting to share what I learned online,
21:02
I'm not a financial advisor,
21:04
but I am able to share what I've learned
21:06
along my personal finance journey with other women,
21:09
really started from a group chat.
21:11
I would have friends when I graduated from uni
21:13
asking me, hey, how do I set up my retirement account?
21:17
How do I set up my finances?
21:19
So I know how much I can afford in rent each month
21:22
and I'm not going over budget.
21:24
And I just thought, why not go online
21:27
and share what I'm learning along the way?
21:29
I wasn't seeing a lot of women
21:30
that looked like me sharing that information.
21:32
And it's just grown into a beautiful community
21:35
and so many women now are able to benefit
21:38
from my lessons and my resources.
21:41
One thing though that I have learned along the way
21:43
that I don't think a lot of people talk about
21:45
when it comes to personal finance
21:47
is it's also the lifestyle decision.
21:49
So the friends you make, the people you choose to date,
21:53
those people can also impact your personal finance journey.
21:57
I've been lucky enough to date men
22:00
that have been very supportive of me growing my business,
22:03
sharing knowledge, sharing resources,
22:05
telling me what they're doing with their finances,
22:08
being comfortable talking about money.
22:10
When it comes to friends also being very transparent
22:13
about the smart money moves that they're making
22:15
and I really encourage women in the mis-empower community
22:18
on socials to do the same.
22:20
Your friends will have such an impact
22:22
in terms of exposing you.
22:23
So really making sure that you're finding those spaces
22:27
gets really taking control over how you find that community,
22:30
how you find that exposure.
22:32
So as we think of the great wealth transfer that's happening
22:36
and when I refer to that,
22:37
it's the parents that are retiring,
22:39
the grandparents that are retiring,
22:41
the ones that are going to be giving women
22:42
those properties one day,
22:44
that will be shifting over their assets.
22:48
When women have access to that capital,
22:50
that means that they have a decision.
22:52
They can decide to invest in real estate.
22:55
They can decide to invest in other women-owned businesses.
22:59
We already know that women get less than 2%
23:02
of venture capital.
23:03
Venture capital is often key to accelerating businesses
23:06
and really taking them to the next level.
23:09
So I think it's really important for women to be aware
23:12
of what does it take to be an accredited investor?
23:15
What are the different opportunities
23:17
like angel investing, crowdfunding, VC, private equity?
23:21
And how can we get more women in those industries?
23:25
How can we get the women with capital
23:28
and the knowledge to become limited partners
23:30
in these VC funds to become angel investors
23:33
and then use the capital that they have
23:35
to invest in other women-owned businesses?
23:38
So it's essentially the more women
23:40
that realize the options that there are
23:42
in terms of growing businesses,
23:43
in terms of being able to distribute money
23:46
into different types of businesses,
23:48
the more representation and change
23:51
we will see globally because there's women in power,
23:53
there's women running businesses,
23:54
there's women who have brilliant ideas
23:56
that are actually being funded
23:58
and therefore globally.
24:00
We have more businesses and solutions
24:03
and services that are catered towards women
24:05
rather than it being really skewed.
24:07
Yes, because with every system,
24:10
there's checks and balances.
24:11
So, okay, women have the money,
24:13
but the thing is if women have the money,
24:15
there needs to be enough women
24:17
in those companies to be able
24:19
to influence the decision makers, right?
24:21
So it's all a trickle-down effect.
24:23
And when it comes to your own investing journey
24:26
and how you approach your money,
24:28
what are kind of the key fundamentals
24:30
that you really,
24:32
I was about to say, live and die by,
24:33
which is so dire,
24:34
but what are the things that you really think
24:37
have helped you to get to a place of financial security?
24:41
I think a lot of people will tell you
24:44
make sure that you are spending less than you make.
24:47
I mean, that's just the basics.
24:50
I think another thing that is often not talk about
24:53
is sometimes it takes spending money to make money.
24:56
I love that.
24:57
And I think that's also really important
24:58
and to be very intentional.
25:00
So obviously, I'm a busy girl.
25:03
I am a corporate girl.
25:04
I have my own women's community.
25:06
I'm a content creator.
25:07
There are a lot of demands.
25:09
That means that I really had to get comfortable outsourcing
25:12
in order to protect my mental health
25:14
while still accelerating my wealth building journey
25:16
and investing in my businesses.
25:18
So that meant getting things like a top manager.
25:21
She takes 20% of all my deals.
25:24
And yes, that is a big chunk,
25:26
but it is needed for me to get to the next level
25:28
that also means making sure that I'm outsourcing
25:31
in my personal life.
25:33
That means paying for a cleaner to come
25:35
so I can get some time back.
25:37
So really being intentional
25:38
about how you not only delegate in your business
25:40
but how you delegate in your personal life
25:42
because I've seen time and time again from my elders
25:46
and women who have just really built the empires
25:50
is that by the time they built their empires
25:53
they're burnt out, they're not happy in their personal life.
25:55
And I think it's important to have both elements
25:58
and be really intentional
26:00
as you are accelerating your wealth building journey
26:02
because yes, maybe you will become that
26:05
as I like to say a pretty wealthy woman one day.
26:07
But if you don't have people to share it with,
26:10
that's also not a great life.
26:11
So you just really want to be intentional
26:13
about that on your wealth building journey.
26:14
The outsourcing pieces such a great piece of advice
26:18
because I know when we first started the curve
26:20
I felt really uncomfortable outsourcing things
26:22
because I, at the idea of spending money
26:24
when I could just do it myself, made no sense.
26:27
But really to be able to build something sustainable
26:31
and also to have a sustainable mental health
26:33
and to be healthy outside of what it is
26:35
that you're pouring your heart and soul and time into.
26:39
It's such a, I don't know for me, it was,
26:42
and I think it comes from a scarcity
26:43
or like lack mindset where the idea of paying somebody
26:46
to do something that I could just do myself
26:48
is like, why would I do that?
26:50
But to be able to have more people help
26:53
so that it frees you up to do
26:55
more of the high paying parts of whatever your business needs.
27:00
For example, if it's like having someone manage
27:02
social media, even though you can do it yourself,
27:04
is that freeing you up to be doing
27:06
more of the important or higher paying parts
27:09
that are going to grow the equity
27:11
in that business even more than what,
27:13
if you were just spreading yourself so thin
27:15
across everything, I think that's such an important thing
27:18
to learn in terms of your personal finances,
27:22
how you divide up where you put your money.
27:26
Do you have, you know, your like wants your needs
27:29
and then you're investing?
27:30
And how do you figure out how much
27:32
you're actually putting into investments?
27:34
I think I take a little bit of a non-traditional approach
27:38
and it's been so long because I've automated it.
27:41
So I would need to go back.
27:42
I actually am a big fan of using digital tools
27:45
really figuring out like how much money
27:47
that you're bringing in each month
27:49
and then making that decision of, okay,
27:51
how much do I want to spend in rent?
27:54
How much do I want to spend on ones?
27:56
How much do I want to spend on my needs?
27:58
It really depends on what your financial goals are.
28:01
Everyone is different.
28:02
For me, when I think about my systems,
28:05
that was really big for me.
28:06
So when I was first sitting down post-grad
28:09
and I still have the same system to this day,
28:11
I knew by nature I am a spender.
28:14
I would encourage everyone to read
28:15
the psychology of money like, oh,
28:17
we've done the next episode on this.
28:18
Yes.
28:19
Yes, I mean, I haven't read it.
28:21
I've just hit the top lines from Vic
28:22
but it sounds like the most amazing book.
28:25
Yes, I think understand your money trauma,
28:29
understand what your style is.
28:31
I think that will inform the strategy
28:33
that works for you.
28:34
So because I know by nature I can spend money.
28:37
So what I like to do is always making sure
28:39
that I'm paying myself first
28:41
and I say paying myself first
28:42
making sure that I'm investing first
28:44
before I'm spending on my ones.
28:46
And I do that by automating.
28:48
So when I get my payday I have two checking accounts.
28:52
I have one for my bills,
28:54
one for my personal spending.
28:56
From my bills I have a select amount
28:58
that goes every single month
29:00
to my brokerage account for my investments.
29:02
Then I have another portion
29:04
that goes to my short term savings account.
29:06
This is like for my vacations
29:08
or like if I wanted, you know,
29:09
splurge on clothing one day,
29:11
like just some money allocated
29:13
for those types of things.
29:14
And then I have like a long term savings account.
29:16
So like my like emergency fund things like that.
29:20
And then my personal spending
29:21
that's what I use for my everyday spending.
29:24
Actually though for my everyday spending
29:26
I don't directly spend out of the account.
29:28
I charge everything to my credit card
29:30
because I want to leverage those points.
29:33
I'm a big traveler.
29:34
So I encourage people to get the credit card
29:36
according to their lifestyle
29:37
and just pay it off in full every month.
29:40
I don't trust myself to do that.
29:42
I can.
29:42
But here's like my system to make it work
29:45
because again, naturally a big spender.
29:47
I charge it to this travel credit card.
29:50
But I make sure every two to three days
29:52
I'm paying off that card
29:55
from my personal.
29:56
I can't.
29:57
I'm just I'm not good at Edman.
29:59
So for me, that's not going to work.
30:01
But if you're good at it,
30:01
like I know that she's great at it.
30:03
So she knows she does.
30:04
It's not for everyone.
30:05
That's just what works for me.
30:07
And again, when I share on my platform,
30:09
I'm just truly sharing my experiences.
30:12
You can always pick and choose the parts
30:14
that work for you.
30:15
But I have found that my community
30:17
really does like separating your bills
30:19
from your personal spending.
30:21
I have found is really, really insured off.
30:23
I definitely do that as well.
30:24
I think it's, yeah, it makes such a difference
30:27
because then you know how much you've got on the things you want.
30:29
For example, yesterday I was walking through Brooklyn
30:32
and I went into this vintage shop
30:33
and it was this really cool handbag
30:35
and it was $80 US dollars.
30:36
And I thought, oh, I really like that.
30:38
And they know I don't need it.
30:39
And I went into my, you know, my,
30:41
as you're calling it, checking account, my,
30:43
I have like, it's like called once
30:45
and I have like a heart on either side
30:46
and I had $83 in it to last me till tomorrow.
30:49
And I thought, absolutely not.
30:50
Because if I need food tomorrow,
30:52
I'm not going to be able to afford it.
30:53
I'll have three or like 250 US to pay for that.
30:57
And I was like, okay, right.
30:58
So it's a no-brainer.
30:59
I think for me, when I can see the amount
31:01
that I'm working with,
31:02
it's much easier to make decisions on,
31:05
do I want it?
31:06
Is it worth it?
31:08
Because I know that by buying that handbag,
31:10
what I'm not going to be able to spend, you know,
31:12
and I think that unless you know those numbers
31:14
and you can really easily see them,
31:16
it's so hard to make clever decisions
31:18
because you're not actually thinking,
31:22
what am I giving up by spending this money?
31:25
You know that feeling when you actually hit a milestone
31:27
or you achieve something that you've been
31:30
trying to for ages,
31:32
you may be doubted yourself,
31:34
but you actually finally get there.
31:36
And this could be anything.
31:37
This could be landing a new job
31:39
that you've been working really hard towards
31:41
and writing down all the ones that you have
31:43
and really making a proper case
31:46
of why you deserve to be paid more or promoted
31:49
or it might be starting a side hustle.
31:52
It could be anything that takes time planning
31:56
and having to back yourself.
31:57
And that's exactly how we think about saving
31:59
and investing at the curve.
32:01
It's how we teach everywhere across our workshops
32:04
and the investing club on the podcast,
32:06
building towards big stuff,
32:08
whether that be growing your investment portfolio
32:11
or saving up to buy something
32:13
that actually takes time and preparation
32:16
and confidence to get there.
32:17
So while I was home in New Zealand
32:19
as in while I'm recording this right now,
32:22
I have been so lucky to drive this incredible car around.
32:27
And it's fair to say Alexis has made its way
32:30
onto my wish list.
32:31
And I didn't really ever think
32:34
that investing in a car like this
32:35
would be something that I would consider
32:38
or would put high on my priorities.
32:39
But the way that it's made me feel
32:41
the confidence that I have when driving this car,
32:44
how safe I feel, it's just, yeah, I finally get it.
32:48
And so what we've done is created a step-by-step guide
32:51
to help you to get from wherever you are
32:53
when it comes to saving for something big like Alexis
32:56
or something else,
32:57
to help you get from where you are to where you want to be
33:00
because I think that, you know,
33:02
just back to what I was saying at the beginning,
33:03
it's like it's anything that's worth having
33:07
is gonna take hard work and time and commitment
33:10
and backing yourself to get there.
33:12
And so if you would like to know the best way
33:15
to save and prepare and work towards,
33:18
you know, a big ticket purchase like buying a car,
33:21
then we've created something to help.
33:23
And it's in the podcast show notes.
33:25
It's totally free to download.
33:26
And because Alexis isn't just a car,
33:28
it's actually a lifestyle
33:29
and something that I've experienced firsthand
33:32
we have chosen some seriously inspiring women
33:35
to feature in the episodes that they're sponsoring.
33:37
So if you would like to download the How To Guide,
33:39
it's in the podcast show notes.
33:41
But otherwise, back to the podcast.
33:43
In terms of your investments,
33:45
like, you know, say 10% that you put towards investments.
33:48
I definitely put more of this up to you.
33:49
What is your percentage?
33:51
I have to check, I think, I have like 90 to 90%
33:56
of my money overall like investments.
34:00
Wait, hold on, that makes zero sense to me.
34:02
90% of my life.
34:03
I'm not worth of my now.
34:04
Sorry, okay, yes.
34:05
I probably should have explained that.
34:06
Right, right, right.
34:07
But again, when it comes to like your personal finance strategy,
34:11
like it's very, very personal right now,
34:14
I do really want to focus on investing
34:17
because of my background.
34:19
I know that I don't need to have as much in my emergency fund
34:23
personally just because I do have a very supportive family
34:27
that I can go back to.
34:28
I have like a plan of what that looks like.
34:31
Do you mean if you couldn't pay rent,
34:32
you could go home?
34:33
I could go home.
34:34
I also have additional revenue streams through my business,
34:38
through being a content creator as well.
34:40
So you, because you have multiple revenue streams
34:42
and money coming from different places,
34:44
you don't feel the need to have a massive emergency fund
34:47
is that kind of what you mean?
34:48
Yes, but that is not what I would recommend for everyone.
34:52
It is just what is working for me.
34:55
It's a really great point and the idea of personal finance
34:57
being so personal is such an important one
34:59
because for me, it's very different.
35:01
Like I do feel like I need.
35:03
I'm trying to get to six months, to be honest,
35:05
for me because I have one revenue stream
35:08
and it's a startup and that's a really good example of why
35:11
like makes sense for you to have less in your emergency fund
35:14
but it makes sense for me to have more.
35:15
For me, that's what feels good.
35:18
But then when you say that you've got 90% of your net worth
35:21
in investments, is that in the stock market?
35:24
It's definitely a mix.
35:26
So I have my retirement account.
35:28
I have my brokerage account as well.
35:31
And brokerage you mean like you tried your own shares
35:33
like you buy stock?
35:34
Yeah, I would say like 70 to 80% of my investments
35:39
are in really diversified index funds like the S&P 500
35:45
and then maybe 20 to 30%.
35:47
I like to just dabble in different things.
35:49
Dabble in different things.
35:51
And I think as I grow throughout my personal finance journey
35:54
that's when you'll see me making maybe more like angel
35:57
investments one day or investments in the VC funds.
36:01
What else will I dipble and dabble with?
36:03
I think real estate one day.
36:06
But there are also like many different paths with real estate
36:09
and like I talked about the great wealth transfer.
36:11
What is this debt?
36:12
It's like a shitload of money being transferred
36:15
to the hands of women, right?
36:16
And I can't be off the top of my head.
36:18
Yeah, because we will be hopefully fortunate
36:21
to inherit properties and inherit assets
36:25
from our parents or grandparents.
36:28
And again, that's why I say personal finance is so personal
36:31
because if that is your financial case
36:33
obviously not everyone has that background
36:35
of being able to benefit from inheriting a house or a property.
36:39
You might decide, okay, if I know in the next few years
36:43
I will be inheriting this.
36:45
Maybe I want to focus more on investing
36:48
in the stock market versus real estate.
36:51
Everyone is different based on what their appetite is
36:53
because real estate, while you can make a lot of money
36:56
you can also lose a lot of money as well.
36:58
So just figuring out what makes sense for your personality
37:02
and like your financial journey is also really important.
37:04
But there's just like so many options.
37:06
Sometimes I just wish there was a more clear formula.
37:09
I know that it all comes down to personal preference.
37:12
I know this, I've learned it for years and years now.
37:15
I'm aware of it, but I imagine there will probably be
37:19
people listening to this that feel kind of frustrated
37:21
with the amount of options and the amount of work
37:24
and the amount of this and that.
37:25
And maybe just feel overwhelmed by the concepts
37:28
that we're talking about.
37:30
What kind of advice or encouragement do you give
37:33
to your community and to anyone listening to this
37:37
that might be feeling overwhelmed by the idea of it?
37:39
Because it sucks that we can't say,
37:42
we can't be direct because we're not financial advisors.
37:45
So I don't know, I just, I know that because this was me
37:49
years ago, I'd be listening to conversations like this
37:51
and I'd be like, God, well now I've got like a million
37:54
new options and now I just, you know, sometimes
37:56
that you can feel so frustrated, you don't do anything.
37:58
Oh, yeah, decision fatigue, overwhelm is definitely real.
38:02
So I would first start by thinking about yourself,
38:07
your personality, where you're at.
38:08
Think about the primary ways in which women acquire well.
38:13
So one, sometimes it's through marriage marriage.
38:16
Sometimes it's through inheritance.
38:18
Are you telling us to get on a dating app?
38:20
What's going on here?
38:21
No, no, I'm fine if I trust it.
38:23
No, no, I'm just truly being honest
38:26
and sharing the style of joke.
38:27
How woman, I don't believe in shaming women.
38:30
I believe in empowering them with the tools and resources
38:33
to each their own.
38:34
No, it's a really good point honestly, because it is true.
38:38
That's how a lot of people do get well because I'm
38:40
marrying into it.
38:41
Yeah, marrying into it and not only that to sometimes
38:46
marrying the right partner, you can choose to invest together.
38:49
Two is through inheritance.
38:51
So if it's being passed down from you,
38:53
there's ways in which you can do that.
38:55
Sit down with your family early and often actually make sure
38:58
that everyone has a will making sure things are set up.
39:01
So you won't be paying too much inheritance hacks
39:03
when it comes to properties, making sure you can sit down
39:06
with a lawyer and maybe get a trust set up so that you really
39:09
set up even if you do come from a middle class family,
39:13
lower class family, making sure you get your family
39:15
on life insurance so you're not going into debt,
39:17
covering family members, funerals like all those decisions
39:20
go into shaping our wealth.
39:23
The third is owning a business.
39:25
Sometimes it's you starting your own business
39:27
and accelerating that journey.
39:28
Look at all these creators that have built their businesses.
39:31
Sometimes it's acquiring a small business that's already
39:34
successful and then using your knowledge and skills
39:36
to take it's the next novel.
39:38
Some people it's real estate.
39:39
Some people it's like, I just want my corporate job living
39:43
below their means, investing, maybe getting a job with equity.
39:47
I think it's just really sitting down looking at maybe
39:50
those five options and saying, what is the number one place
39:53
I want to start based on where I am?
39:55
That's such a good answer.
39:57
I love that you just light out those five options.
40:00
Everyone's path looks different.
40:01
So it's just really about having the knowledge, skills
40:04
and resources and then taking a little bit of time
40:06
to do that self-hurst flexion and then prioritizing.
40:09
What is your strategy?
40:11
Like what are the things you're focusing on
40:12
of those five options to grow your own wealth?
40:15
Ooh, I don't think I've ever been asked that before.
40:18
I think for me marriage and children is also really important.
40:22
So I think I do consider those things as I'm dating
40:26
and I'm getting older.
40:27
Right now I'm realizing that you only get one life.
40:31
So for me in that season it really looks like investing
40:33
in my businesses, investing in my relationships.
40:36
On my pages I talk a lot about becoming a pretty wealthy woman.
40:39
And for me that looks like investing in my education,
40:42
investing in my relationships, investing in my appearance.
40:46
And I feel like that's really what's helping me
40:48
accelerate my financial journey.
40:50
So really doubling down on those three things
40:52
because I think they have a ripple effect
40:54
in all other areas.
40:55
You're really diversifying your options here.
40:58
Well I'm young and I have energy I should.
41:00
Yeah, I would love to just touch on quickly
41:03
before we wrap up the mention of relationship
41:06
and the idea of marriage and kids being important to you
41:08
and also the very real reality
41:10
that when you combine finances with somebody
41:12
you are doubling down on potentially
41:16
an even better financial future.
41:18
There's I can't remember if it's a quota
41:20
or if this is just something that's said
41:22
but the idea that one of the biggest financial decisions
41:24
that you can make is actually who you marry.
41:27
How do you approach that when it comes to dating?
41:29
I really think about the person's character
41:32
and shared value money comes and goes.
41:35
So really thinking about like if they were to lose
41:37
everything, how resilient are they?
41:41
What do their skills look like?
41:42
What does their emotional intelligence look like?
41:45
How do they manage those hard times?
41:47
How do they treat people?
41:48
Because even if you have the successful business
41:50
if you don't treat people,
41:52
well who's going to want to work with you?
41:54
Who's going to want to invest in you?
41:55
And all of those things are really, really important.
41:58
So that's why I really double down on character.
42:01
I also know that yes,
42:03
it's great to be building money
42:05
but I also really prioritize family
42:08
and making people feel valued and prioritize
42:11
even when you are busy,
42:13
even when you are accelerating that business.
42:15
So really thinking about what type of partnership
42:17
makes you happy because at the end of the day
42:19
like your partner,
42:20
even though nobody likes to say it is going to be your therapist,
42:23
your friend, your confidant.
42:25
And I think when you are with someone
42:27
who brings out the best in you,
42:29
who brings out that confidence self,
42:31
when you feel like support and you feel loved,
42:33
you show up better in your businesses,
42:35
you show up better in your life.
42:36
And when you are not, you show up drained.
42:38
And that can also have a negative effect
42:40
on the bottom line
42:41
and the things you're trying to achieve.
42:43
And I don't think we talk about that at all.
42:45
It's hard.
42:46
I'm polite.
42:47
I so know what you mean.
42:49
I think it's just,
42:50
it's not as black and white as what is their salary
42:52
or what is there,
42:53
you know, how much of they invested.
42:55
It's how do they deal with everything
42:58
from people to the stress
43:00
of something not going right to,
43:02
yeah, it's a lot more nuanced and I think.
43:04
It's also the realization
43:05
that someone might look like they have money
43:07
because they've inherited it,
43:08
but do they know how to use it
43:09
or are they just spending it?
43:11
That's another big thing,
43:12
especially coming from a family
43:15
where I've seen,
43:16
where I've heard,
43:17
because I wasn't alive,
43:18
generations where wealth is built in one generation.
43:21
But due to not really having that cohesive,
43:25
family dynamic,
43:26
I've seen money also go away
43:27
and generations
43:28
are really not be preserved well
43:30
or hoarded and seeing the negative effects of that.
43:33
So I think it's also really important
43:36
that even if a person does come from family money
43:39
or they will be inheriting businesses
43:41
or they will be inheriting property,
43:43
that they've taken the time to learn
43:45
what it takes to maintain it.
43:47
Would there be any like absolute red flags financially
43:50
when dating for you?
43:52
For me,
43:53
I think someone who's not willing
43:56
to address some of their money trauma,
43:59
especially when it comes to spending issues.
44:03
I think that's a big one
44:05
because nobody's perfect,
44:07
but if you're not willing to address the problem,
44:09
you're hiding money,
44:11
like financial infidelity,
44:12
you're keeping secrets.
44:13
Is that a second financial infidelity?
44:15
It is. I mean, think about it.
44:17
Like I don't know if anyone had the situation
44:19
like when you were a kid
44:20
and psychology money talks about it,
44:22
your mom like maybe you went on a shopping spree
44:24
to tell your dad
44:25
and like you're running upstairs
44:26
like hide the shoes in the closet
44:27
so your dad doesn't know.
44:29
Or if it's a man in the situation,
44:32
maybe he made an investment on your behalf,
44:37
the investment didn't go well and didn't tell you,
44:39
but it's your shared money.
44:40
These things do happen in relationships.
44:42
Whoa, imagine.
44:45
Oh my gosh,
44:46
it's not just like shading having sex with someone else.
44:48
It's actually shading with your money.
44:50
That can happen.
44:51
And I do think that financial strain
44:55
can hurt relationships
44:57
when you're not communicating regularly
44:59
when you don't share that same vision.
45:00
I talked a lot before about shared values,
45:02
sharing the vision.
45:04
If someone's overspending and taking money
45:07
out of that pool that you're supposed to use
45:09
towards buying a house,
45:10
that could be an issue down the line
45:12
in terms of your financial goals together.
45:14
But what would you say to people who?
45:15
I don't know what it is,
45:16
but I have a bit of,
45:17
I love the idea of combining finances.
45:19
I love the idea of working with someone
45:21
to have shared goals.
45:23
But I also equally want to feel independent
45:26
and not like,
45:27
I mean, you don't know if someone's going to go
45:29
and be financially,
45:30
and for,
45:31
what's the word,
45:32
I'm going to like financially cheat on you.
45:33
I guess from your perspective,
45:35
how do you balance like the idea
45:36
of financial independence
45:38
while also having shared goals
45:40
or going into a relationship
45:41
being open-hearted and minded
45:43
to collaborating financially?
45:45
I'm not married,
45:46
but in previous relationships
45:48
and even as I do start to date people,
45:50
just having those conversations.
45:52
I sometimes even like to gamify it.
45:54
Not that like personal finance.
45:55
You know, it'd be like the most fun
45:57
chances to talk about.
45:58
I love a good hypothetical.
46:01
Like, I love to throw an hypothetical.
46:03
Yeah, so if you're trying to figure out,
46:05
like, do we have the same financial picture?
46:07
If we were to go on a vacation,
46:08
like, who pays for what?
46:10
Like, what does that look like?
46:11
And you can really see if like,
46:12
we're on the same page about things.
46:14
Or if, you know, you're dating someone,
46:16
like, I love an ambitious man,
46:18
but sometimes, you know,
46:19
there's like, bid dreams,
46:20
but like, no plan.
46:21
So, you know,
46:23
you've got to make sure like,
46:24
the talk is an action.
46:26
The talk is an action of talk.
46:28
So you can have those like hypothetical conversations
46:31
where it's fun, it's playful,
46:32
but like you're also getting to the nitty gritty you.
46:35
And I think it's also important.
46:36
It's not just the dating phase.
46:37
It's also when and if you are married,
46:39
because things can change and your goals and aspirations change.
46:44
And you might have two kids and you haven't checked in to see if,
46:47
actually, do we want the same things in 10 years?
46:49
Or is there some part of my financial
46:53
hygiene that you feel uncomfortable with?
46:55
Is have I developed habits that are,
46:57
you know, I think it's that constant being on the same page, right?
47:00
It's not just in like the initial phases,
47:03
because as your salaries are your income,
47:05
or your business grows and shrinks.
47:07
And as you say, money comes and goes.
47:10
I used to responding in a similar way.
47:12
And are you on the same page?
47:14
Yeah, I think one thing for me that I recommend
47:18
and that I found helpful in relationships
47:20
and that my parents have done is check-ins once a month.
47:24
I think really sitting down and figuring out
47:25
like what works for you.
47:27
But with every option, again,
47:30
I just encourage women to make sure
47:32
that they are on all the counts.
47:34
But they are aware of what's going on.
47:36
Don't be passive about it.
47:37
No, your password logins, everyone.
47:41
Not how to get in and see.
47:43
Yeah, because also people can start off
47:45
lovely and beautiful and amazing.
47:47
But you do need to be aware.
47:49
And I think that's the scariest thing
47:51
is when people have no idea what's going on.
47:53
It's scary to even look or open an account.
47:56
But do you not scare?
47:57
I'm figuring out that you,
47:59
all of a sudden your husband or wife
48:02
has spent all your money on gambling.
48:04
Or like you just don't know anything
48:06
unless you're an active participant.
48:09
Maybe it's just starting by being curious.
48:11
Because also if someone's not open to speaking
48:13
to you about your joint money
48:14
or joint financial situation,
48:16
like that's kind of concerning it itself, right?
48:19
I just feel like if you're going to be
48:22
open to being physical with someone,
48:24
like you should also be able to be
48:26
open about your financial picture.
48:29
Oh, that's powerful.
48:32
Yes, if you see me naked,
48:34
show me your bank account.
48:35
So true.
48:38
Oh, God, there's so many things
48:40
that I could speak to you about.
48:41
But I'm also aware that you're busy
48:42
and you're running a business.
48:44
Is there one kind of, you know,
48:45
little mic drop moment that you'd like to leave people with?
48:48
Do it scared and surround yourself with winners.
48:51
It's so simple.
48:53
But I think doing the things that you want to do
48:56
scared is what's going to take you to the next level.
48:58
There are so many people who could be the next
49:01
content creator, be the next big business owner,
49:04
be on the cover of that magazine.
49:06
But they are so worried about what other people think
49:08
of them that they haven't even tried.
49:11
And those who are quite mediocre
49:13
are succeeding and getting the opportunities
49:15
that you wish you could have had.
49:17
If you just would have tried and did it scared.
49:19
So I would say do it scared.
49:21
And then the second one is around yourself with winners.
49:24
Invest in communities, join your community,
49:26
join my community, miss and power.
49:28
Make sure that you are listening to podcasts,
49:31
you're reading books by people who have done the things
49:34
you want to do.
49:35
Most things that you want to do have already been done.
49:37
So it's just about you investing yourself,
49:39
taking that time to educate yourself.
49:41
So I would just say do it scared and surround yourself
49:44
with winners.
49:45
Thank you so much, Caitlin.
49:47
It's been such an honor to have you on the podcast.
49:49
And for anyone that wants to find anything
49:52
about what you're doing,
49:53
let's just do a promote everything they are working on.
49:56
Yes, you can follow Caitlin Coomey on all socials
50:00
and follow miss and power on all socials across LinkedIn,
50:04
Instagram, TikTok.
50:06
I'm even now going to get on YouTube a little bit more.
50:08
We'll put this on YouTube.
50:10
I don't even think I said this to someone you said.
50:12
I was like, let's collaborate on YouTube.
50:14
And then I thought, I'm pretty sure you can't collaborate on YouTube.
50:17
But that's awesome.
50:18
And that's probably an example of you doing it scared, right?
50:21
Like you haven't done YouTube.
50:22
But you're like, here I go.
50:23
Yep, so I'll platforms.
50:25
But this has been such a great conversation.
50:28
I hope you guys get a lot of gems from what we share today.
50:32
Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve.
50:34
These conversations are designed to teach you everything
50:36
you need to know to be better with your money,
50:38
saving, to investing, to talking with your friends
50:40
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50:41
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50:42
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50:45
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50:47
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50:48
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50:50
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50:53
Yeah, yeah, so please do it.
50:55
Okay, love you.
50:56
Bye.
50:57
Okay, quickly, the Curve was created to empower
50:59
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51:00
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51:03
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51:05
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51:07
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51:08
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51:10
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51:12
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51:14
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51:17
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51:19
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51:21
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51:22
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51:23
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