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Legally Brunette: Case Updates @ Bravocon · Legally Brunette

0:01
Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I
0:04
Speaker 1: will be your host Emily Simpson. And I'm sorry I
0:09
Speaker 1: forgot to say and and Shane, you forgot I was
0:11
Speaker 1: in the right. I forgot you were here. Okay. So
0:14
Speaker 1: we're going to do some updates on some cases that
0:16
Speaker 1: we have spoken about previously. And one of my favorite
0:20
Speaker 1: cases ever is the Karen Reid case, which we did.
0:24
Speaker 1: We did a couple episodes on Karen Reid.
0:26
Speaker 2: Because it did one big episode and we talked about
0:29
Speaker 2: it in another time, right.
0:30
Speaker 1: But I love talking about Karen Reid because there's just
0:33
Speaker 1: so much to talk about. It's an unsolved mystery. I
0:36
Speaker 1: don't think we'll ever know actually what happened that night.
0:39
Speaker 2: But who do you think did it?
0:41
Speaker 1: Well? I I think that possibly something happened inside that
0:45
Speaker 1: house with the dog and the police officer.
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Speaker 2: Oh okay, so you think it was not Karen and
0:51
Speaker 2: you think it was a police officer.
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Speaker 1: I think something happened to him inside that house and
0:55
Speaker 1: then there was a cover up. That's that's what I
0:57
Speaker 1: take away from it. But Karen Reid is not out
0:59
Speaker 1: of the new anymore. There's been some new things going
1:01
Speaker 1: on with Michael Proctor. And if you will remember, Michael
1:04
Speaker 1: Proctor is the lead investigator during the case.
1:08
Speaker 2: At a conflict of interest or show.
1:09
Speaker 1: Yes, he was the one that had the text messages
1:11
Speaker 1: that were inappropriate, and so he was actually fired and
1:15
Speaker 1: then he appealed his firing. But then now some new
1:20
Speaker 1: evidence or some new things have come up, so more
1:23
Speaker 1: cases involving Michael Proctor are under review. This was an
1:26
Speaker 1: NBC Boston article. Recent court documents show the Norfolk County
1:31
Speaker 1: District Attorney's office has examined nearly twenty cases involving former
1:35
Speaker 1: Massachusetts State Police trooper Michael Proctor. I'm not surprised that
1:40
Speaker 1: the number is high. Before we're done, it might even
1:43
Speaker 1: go higher, said NBC ten Boston legal analyst Michael Coin.
1:48
Speaker 1: See now that's the problem because now what happens is
1:52
Speaker 1: these defense attorneys that defended their clients and now all
1:57
Speaker 1: this evidence is coming forward that was inappropriate that has
2:00
Speaker 1: to do with these cases. Does that give them, depending
2:03
Speaker 1: on what they're finding, a mistrial or a reason to appeal?
2:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, I don't know. That's a tough one
2:11
Speaker 2: because where those defendants found guilty of their crimes, where
2:15
Speaker 2: they found not guilty, they're not guilty. Ones aren't going
2:17
Speaker 2: to like, well.
2:18
Speaker 1: They're not going to say a word. They're gonna be
2:19
Speaker 1: really quiet. Prosecutors were ordered to review a federal investigation
2:24
Speaker 1: of the Read case and turn over any evidence beneficial
2:26
Speaker 1: to other defendants whose cases involved the former state trooper.
2:30
Speaker 1: The cases were identified as part of a document involving
2:33
Speaker 1: Brian Walsh, who was charged with killing and dismembering his wife,
2:37
Speaker 1: Anna Walsh. Proctor investigated that case as well. Anytime that
2:42
Speaker 1: you can use some of these mistakes that he's made
2:44
Speaker 1: to help put doubt in the minds of a juror,
2:47
Speaker 1: that is precisely what they're supposed to do. This is
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Speaker 1: what the legal analyst said. So it's unclear what if
2:54
Speaker 1: any information was given to the defendants, with a lot
2:56
Speaker 1: of the details coming from Proctor's cell phone. Here's what
2:59
Speaker 1: I don't understand about Proctor. So first of all, they
3:01
Speaker 1: got the inappropriate text directly from his phone, right, they
3:04
Speaker 1: did like a forensic analysis, but he had deleted a
3:06
Speaker 1: lot of things. So now this deeper dive with all
3:09
Speaker 1: this new evidence coming forward, is because they've I don't know, like,
3:12
Speaker 1: I'm not a cell phone expert. Clearly.
3:16
Speaker 2: No, you're just a legal podcast.
3:17
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm just a lowly legal podcast person. But wouldn't
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Speaker 1: someone that was a police officer, detective investigator understand that
3:27
Speaker 1: he was if he's deleting things off his phone, that
3:29
Speaker 1: they can still find it in the cloud.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but my yes, my guess would be they delete
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Speaker 2: it so on its face value, it's not there. So
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Speaker 2: if someone were to look at their phone or something,
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Speaker 2: I don't think they deleted it thinking it's gone forever
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Speaker 2: and ever. But why why didn't just think about it
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Speaker 2: that far. It's sort of like wiping up blood. You
3:49
Speaker 2: wipe it up. Yeah. Can you put the luminol or
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Speaker 2: whatever and find it? Yeah?
3:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know. I like that word luminol.
3:55
Speaker 2: I'll turn you on.
3:56
Speaker 1: Yes, I like luminol.
3:57
Speaker 2: So then, but people maybe clean it just on the
4:00
Speaker 2: surface level, so someone will walk through they don't see it.
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Speaker 2: Maybe if someone were to look at his phone, they
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Speaker 2: wouldn't see.
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Speaker 1: So you're saying he hands over his phone they find Okay,
4:08
Speaker 1: well there we go.
4:09
Speaker 2: Okay.
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Speaker 1: Proctor had been fighting to get his job back until
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Speaker 1: last month, when Norfolk County Prosecutors admitted in a court
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Speaker 1: filing that his personal cell phone data contained images of
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Speaker 1: intimate body parts. I would like more details on that. Please.
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Speaker 2: Do you want the intimate body part?
4:23
Speaker 1: I want to I would like to see the images.
4:26
Speaker 1: I want to know what we're talking about about intimate
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Speaker 1: body parts?
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Speaker 2: Google intimate?
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Speaker 1: Are we talking about?
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Speaker 2: Are we talking about the images you see?
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Speaker 1: Is it genitalia? Is that what he has photos of?
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Speaker 2: Probably? What else is intimate?
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Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't know if it meant like
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Speaker 1: a close up of an ear? Is that an intimate
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Speaker 1: body part? No, now you're being silly, No one, No,
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Speaker 1: I meant I intimate. I know, I'm seriously. Does intimate
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Speaker 1: mean like it was like a close up of body parts?
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Speaker 1: Or does intimate mean? Okay, you're just staring.
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Speaker 2: This explains a lot emily you not knowing what an
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Speaker 2: intimate part is.
4:59
Speaker 1: Keep going, okay. The union that represents state police troopers
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Speaker 1: declined to continue paying for his lawyer, and Proctor withdrew
5:05
Speaker 1: his request to be reinstated to the department. All right,
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Speaker 1: So that's our update on Karen Reid. We'll continue to
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Speaker 1: follow that because I think there's so many more things
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Speaker 1: that are going to come out about Michael.
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Speaker 2: Proctor and do you think Michael Proctor had to do
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Speaker 2: with it or do you think he was just fumbling
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Speaker 2: the uh like the prosecution and investigation of it. No.
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Speaker 1: I think he's just inappropriate And I think that he
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Speaker 1: was sharing images probably with friends and stuff from all
5:28
Speaker 1: these cases he's investigating.
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Speaker 2: Okay, so after the crime was committed.
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Speaker 1: Or during I don't know, while he's investigating. Because while
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Speaker 1: he was investigating Karen Reid, he was sending photos of
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Speaker 1: her in text talking. Remember he was like talking about her,
5:41
Speaker 1: didn't you make comments about her? She's hot, but she
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Speaker 1: doesn't have an ass and like things like that.
5:46
Speaker 2: Oh that was him that said that, Yes, Yes, that
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Speaker 2: was him.
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Speaker 1: So I'm saying we already know that he sends highly
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Speaker 1: inappropriate text messages unprofessional, right, But it wasn't just a
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Speaker 1: Karen Reid. It's now goes back to at least twenty
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Speaker 1: cases that he investigated. So now this is opening a
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Speaker 1: whole can of worms on all these cases. You think
6:06
Speaker 1: these defense attorneys in those cases are chomping at the
6:08
Speaker 1: bit wanting to get a hold.
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Speaker 2: Of Yeah, it's like what I've seen. I've seen situations
6:13
Speaker 2: where a cop is found to be crop planning a
6:14
Speaker 2: drug in a car and then arresting that person, right,
6:18
Speaker 2: And then they go back and there's dozens that they
6:21
Speaker 2: have to release because then they go look in the
6:23
Speaker 2: same because now he has an mo right, it was
6:25
Speaker 2: like bodycam footage the way he sneare snuck it in
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Speaker 2: and claimed it was in the car, and then they
6:30
Speaker 2: can see that pattern. Now they go back and the
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Speaker 2: people were getting released like left and.
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Speaker 1: Right, right. So I'm saying this is the tip of
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Speaker 1: the iceberg because now all these cases, they're gonna want
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Speaker 1: they're going to want to know what it was that
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Speaker 1: he was saying, what's he's sending, who's he's sending it to,
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Speaker 1: what are the photos? So anyway, all right, let's move
6:47
Speaker 1: on to the Delphi murders. If you remember, we also
6:49
Speaker 1: did a podcast on the Delphi case, which was the
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Speaker 1: murder of the two young girls in Delphi, Indiana. I've
6:55
Speaker 1: always told you guys, my opinion is that I believe
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Speaker 1: they have the wrong man that is currently been convicted.
7:01
Speaker 2: You felt that the interrogation showed that he was a
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Speaker 2: pretty genuine, decent person that had nothing.
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Speaker 1: To do with the Well, that was my gut feeling,
7:09
Speaker 1: and that was my takeaway when I watched the interrogations.
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Speaker 1: And then also I felt that that one little piece
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Speaker 1: of evidence. Remember they found that gunshot. It wasn't a shell,
7:17
Speaker 1: it was the actual the case spent round, right, but
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Speaker 1: it had striations that like matched him in his house.
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Speaker 2: But that was it. That's old school. That's like, oh,
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Speaker 2: this hair follicle matches this hair. I'm saying, I supposed
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Speaker 2: a DNA where it's a black exactly.
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Speaker 1: There was no DNA that was matched to him.
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Speaker 2: Was this a CBS technician that happened to be taking
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Speaker 2: a walk on a bridge.
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Speaker 1: Yes, he's the guy that reached out and said, hey,
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Speaker 1: I was there that day. And then right, his name's
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Speaker 1: Richard Allen.
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Speaker 2: You know well you know it. You know his wife's
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Speaker 2: a little bit at fault because she made him call.
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Speaker 1: Yes, well, I'm sure she feels.
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Speaker 2: Like extremely guilty. This crime investigation's like you were there, honey,
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Speaker 2: you should call and tell them. Yeah, exactly.
8:05
Speaker 1: So a judge release more than twelve hundred pages of
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Speaker 1: exhibits from del High murderer Richard Allen's case on Monday,
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Speaker 1: then sealed the exhibits, which signals that Allan's appeal is
8:15
Speaker 1: about a month from being filed. Several news outlets published
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Speaker 1: the exhibits, which have since been blocked from public inspection.
8:22
Speaker 1: The Journal and Courier downloaded the file from Fort Wayne's
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Speaker 1: Wayne five website on Tuesday and verified the filing of
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Speaker 1: two hundred and one pages of exhibits on Wednesday through
8:32
Speaker 1: sealed court documents that detailed the number of pages. The
8:36
Speaker 1: specific content, however, was no longer accessible to the public.
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Speaker 1: Among the exhibits are an affidavit from Todd Klik, a
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Speaker 1: former Rushville assistant police chief who investigated the possible involvement
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Speaker 1: in the killings of Odness in the eastern part of Indiana.
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Speaker 1: And do you remember we talked about this. This was
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Speaker 1: one of the things I actually pulled up that document.
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Speaker 1: Not this this is on appeal, But there's another document
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Speaker 1: that his defense attorney filed before he went to trial
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Speaker 1: that he wanted to get an evidence that there was
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Speaker 1: third party possible guilt with this satan satanic cult because
9:13
Speaker 1: of the the very.
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Speaker 2: You called it. You called it someday, there was a
9:16
Speaker 2: terminology for it where like they lay the sticks down
9:19
Speaker 2: or they.
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Speaker 1: I just said satanic ritual.
9:22
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's that's right.
9:24
Speaker 1: But it was the crime scene. Remember, it was like
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Speaker 1: one of the bodies was found underneath the tree and
9:29
Speaker 1: there was a marking above it, and then it had
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Speaker 1: sticks laid in a certain way on top. And then
9:33
Speaker 1: the other girl they were found naked. The other girl
9:35
Speaker 1: had branches laid on top of her and they were
9:38
Speaker 1: symbols from this. And then remember the guards that were
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Speaker 1: guarding him were odinous and they had odin his patches
9:44
Speaker 1: on them.
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Speaker 2: I mean, it was just that stuff was there before.
9:46
Speaker 2: Now I think about it.
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Speaker 1: What the branch the branches they were laying on top
9:50
Speaker 1: of the bodies.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I missed the memo on that one. Well, the
9:55
Speaker 2: reason I say that is because in high school, my friend,
10:01
Speaker 2: he's not a murderer. My friend, he would be at
10:06
Speaker 2: church early. There was an early class, right, and he
10:09
Speaker 2: would get dropped up early because his mom dropped him
10:11
Speaker 2: off early. And he sat there and waited untill we
10:12
Speaker 2: all got there. And he carved in the concrete no fate.
10:17
Speaker 2: But that was because he was a Terminator fan and
10:19
Speaker 2: that Terminator two came out, so he carved in no fate.
10:21
Speaker 2: He thought he was like tough and stuff. Yeah, Well,
10:24
Speaker 2: that month, soon after someone committed suicide on the sidewalk
10:29
Speaker 2: nearby where it said no fate by coincidence. Not a
10:32
Speaker 2: member of the church, not affiliate, just just unfortunately someone
10:35
Speaker 2: that was committed suicide did right there, and everyone thought
10:38
Speaker 2: that he carved in no fate and then killed himself.
10:40
Speaker 2: Oh so, so I didn't know if the sticks were there,
10:43
Speaker 2: But now you're telling me that on top of the body.
10:45
Speaker 2: So my point is moot.
10:47
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, So thank you for that anecdote.
10:49
Speaker 2: That's still a good story though.
10:53
Speaker 1: The exhibits also included transcripts of Indiana State Police interviews
10:57
Speaker 1: with Kathy Allen, who is Richard's wife. After Allan's arrest
11:01
Speaker 1: on October twenty six of twenty twenty two, he was
11:03
Speaker 1: ordered to be housed in the Westville Correctional Facility, where
11:07
Speaker 1: at least two guards wore patches on their uniforms that
11:09
Speaker 1: tied them to Odinism. According to these exhibits, Max Baker,
11:14
Speaker 1: who worked for Allan's defense team, filed an affidavit stating
11:17
Speaker 1: that he witnessed the oldness patches on prison guards uniforms,
11:21
Speaker 1: as well as one patch that read I hate people.
11:24
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like I could wear a patch
11:26
Speaker 1: that says that too. I don't have to be an oldist.
11:29
Speaker 2: You don't have to wear badge. People know it.
11:30
Speaker 1: Oh that's true. I don't need a patch. My face
11:32
Speaker 1: says it all.
11:32
Speaker 2: Your voice says it all okay.
11:34
Speaker 1: Baker also reviewed video images recorded by prison guards that
11:37
Speaker 1: showed Allan, who was in Westville Prison for safekeeping, had
11:41
Speaker 1: been badly beaten and had two black eyes. The exhibits
11:44
Speaker 1: filed on Monday include documents detailing theories of Oldness and
11:48
Speaker 1: Delphi and Logan Sport, suggesting that they might be involved
11:52
Speaker 1: along with the Oldness on the east side of the state.
11:54
Speaker 1: It included questions and depositions about police investigation of and
11:58
Speaker 1: dismissal of the theory that the branches and limbs, as
12:01
Speaker 1: well as the positioning of the bodies and the f
12:04
Speaker 1: that was painted on a tree with Libby's blood all
12:07
Speaker 1: tied back to Odinism. Now, if you remember when we
12:09
Speaker 1: talked about this earlier, he had tried. The defense attorney
12:11
Speaker 1: tried previously back in September of twenty twenty three to
12:15
Speaker 1: present that lengthy memorandum about how they were killed in
12:18
Speaker 1: an out and it might have been tied to human sacrifices, which.
12:22
Speaker 2: Then would not have connected the CBS technician right right,
12:26
Speaker 2: because he was in that stuff where he could argue that,
12:29
Speaker 2: you know, he has no signs of that anywhere.
12:31
Speaker 1: But the judge denied it and would not allow any
12:34
Speaker 1: of that evidence.
12:35
Speaker 2: Probably because the judge is part of the Satanic.
12:36
Speaker 1: Group that I mean could be allegedly.
12:39
Speaker 2: Judges could be part of it.
12:41
Speaker 1: Allegedly, Yeah, okay, but no, no, they could be. Well,
12:46
Speaker 1: anyone could be.
12:47
Speaker 2: That doesn't need to be. That's why you don't need
12:48
Speaker 2: see alleged.
12:50
Speaker 1: Okay, back to Richard Allen. So this is another way
12:54
Speaker 1: to try to get that information.
12:55
Speaker 2: And this is a genuine question. What's another explanation for
12:59
Speaker 2: those sticks someone came up after? Like if it wasn't
13:03
Speaker 2: the if the CBS, well, I don't know, how could
13:07
Speaker 2: those sticks be there other than the murder putting it there?
13:10
Speaker 1: It had that's the only way, other than what some
13:13
Speaker 1: girl scouts came along later and boy scouts and put
13:17
Speaker 1: them on the bodies.
13:17
Speaker 2: So that means if they're able to introduce this evidence
13:22
Speaker 2: and then they're able to point out to the defendant
13:26
Speaker 2: that he is not affiliated anyway, there's no signs, there's
13:29
Speaker 2: no history, there's no social media. There's nothing that ties
13:32
Speaker 2: this guy to these sticks or any sticks, then he
13:36
Speaker 2: should there should be some doubt.
13:37
Speaker 1: Right. Well, that's why if the judge allows this to
13:41
Speaker 1: come in on appeal, it raises a reasonable doubt, right,
13:44
Speaker 1: exactly right.
13:46
Speaker 2: I was just saying it.
13:47
Speaker 1: And you know, also I was reading with this case,
13:49
Speaker 1: and this is another reason I said this before. Before
13:51
Speaker 1: I even read this, I never felt like this is
13:53
Speaker 1: something that one man could have done, because you're talking
13:56
Speaker 1: about two girls that both of them had their clothes rooms,
14:00
Speaker 1: he went across the water, he had he readdressed them.
14:04
Speaker 1: He had to.
14:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I disagree. I'm not saying who did it,
14:08
Speaker 2: but one person could do it.
14:09
Speaker 1: I don't know.
14:10
Speaker 2: I did exercise control over two young girls and put
14:13
Speaker 2: fear in them and get them to comply.
14:15
Speaker 1: I just don't see how he could have done it
14:17
Speaker 1: in the timeframe and with it being a public I
14:20
Speaker 1: don't know it just.
14:21
Speaker 2: I see your point. I'm just saying it can't happen.
14:25
Speaker 1: I mean it could happen, I just don't see it happening.
14:27
Speaker 1: And they did, the police investigating it did think it
14:30
Speaker 1: was Originally when they were first investigating, they felt that
14:32
Speaker 1: it was a two man or more.
14:34
Speaker 2: Okay, it could have been too.
14:44
Speaker 1: Let's move on to the Murdall murders. This was another
14:48
Speaker 1: one of my favorite podcasts because I this family was
14:52
Speaker 1: well Alec Alec Murdall was just so corrupt that allegedly, no,
14:59
Speaker 1: he was convicted. Yeah inside this. Okay, so this is interesting.
15:04
Speaker 1: So there is a scathing letter that Alex Murdoch's and
15:08
Speaker 1: people told me it's Alec even though there's an ex
15:10
Speaker 1: it's Alec, and it's Murdoch, even though well that's how
15:14
Speaker 1: they pronounce it, and.
15:15
Speaker 2: That I give him some respect here.
15:17
Speaker 1: No, I'm trying to pronounce his name correctly because that's
15:20
Speaker 1: that's what I heard, that he puts the murder in Murdach. Yes.
15:26
Speaker 1: So a housekeeper came forward and wrote, this was in people.
15:30
Speaker 1: So Blanca Rbiate Simpson. Oh my gosh, her nat last
15:34
Speaker 1: name Simpson Shane.
15:35
Speaker 2: Wait is she your cousin, Donny?
15:38
Speaker 1: Is she?
15:40
Speaker 2: Uh? This isn't the housekeeper that he killed.
15:43
Speaker 1: No, this is another housekeeper.
15:44
Speaker 2: Did he kill her?
15:45
Speaker 1: Not yet? So Blanca was a US Navy veteran and
15:50
Speaker 1: former corrections officer who started working as one of the
15:53
Speaker 1: family's housekeepers in two thousand and seven and she wrote
15:56
Speaker 1: a new tell all called Within the House of Murder
16:00
Speaker 1: amid a unique friendship Blanca and Maggie. That is a
16:04
Speaker 1: long title and an exclusive excerpt from the book, Simpson writes, Alex,
16:10
Speaker 1: have you adapted to your new life? Is your bed
16:12
Speaker 1: made to your satisfaction? Are the sheets soft against your
16:15
Speaker 1: sensitive skin? Do they make your bed with freshly pressed
16:18
Speaker 1: sheet and are tight enough to bounce a quarter off?
16:20
Speaker 1: In another part of the letter, she writes, I often
16:22
Speaker 1: ask myself, at what point did greed, ambition, and lack
16:26
Speaker 1: of empathy overpower you? You had love, family, friendship, respect
16:29
Speaker 1: and privilege. You had it all, and you decimated everything
16:32
Speaker 1: when you decided nobody deserved to be better off than
16:35
Speaker 1: your family. Saying that she feels betrayed by Alec, Simpson writes,
16:40
Speaker 1: what happened to you? What happened to the man who
16:43
Speaker 1: was always entertaining by cracking jokes? What happened to the
16:46
Speaker 1: man who nurtured and cared for his family? At what
16:49
Speaker 1: point did you become so unhappy in your life that
16:51
Speaker 1: you decided to kill your wife and son? She also
16:55
Speaker 1: opens up a host of unanswered questions when she writes
16:57
Speaker 1: about seeing an unnamed woman at the family's estate known
17:01
Speaker 1: as Mozelle after the funerals.
17:03
Speaker 2: She was unnamed.
17:06
Speaker 1: Her name's Blanca. She's writing about. She's writing about after
17:10
Speaker 1: the funeral, she saw some woman. She's saying he's having
17:12
Speaker 1: an affair.
17:13
Speaker 2: Okay, I know you said unnamed woman. Well she didn't know.
17:16
Speaker 1: She doesn't know her name. Okay, she just saw a
17:18
Speaker 1: random woman. She's basically coming forward after she worked for
17:22
Speaker 1: them in two thousand and seven. Now she can profit
17:25
Speaker 1: from a book. So she's coming forward and she's writing
17:27
Speaker 1: a book, a tell all about all the things that
17:30
Speaker 1: she saw.
17:30
Speaker 2: I'm unknown, yes, yeah, because she does have a name.
17:35
Speaker 1: Well, she doesn't know her name.
17:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great.
17:37
Speaker 1: Okay. She finishes the letter by writing, in part I
17:40
Speaker 1: may never find the answers that bring me full closure,
17:42
Speaker 1: but for now I am releasing the emotional burden of
17:45
Speaker 1: your betrayal and focusing on my own healing, praying for you, Blanca.
17:49
Speaker 1: So I guess she's writing a tell all book. And
17:51
Speaker 1: then she includes a letter to Alec Murdoch.
17:53
Speaker 2: And so that's where I have a I mean, just
17:56
Speaker 2: for conversation purposes. I have a problem with that because
17:58
Speaker 2: It's like if you have if you had a problem
17:59
Speaker 2: with him and you saw him as dangerous. Assuming that's
18:02
Speaker 2: the case, then why are you telling us now after
18:04
Speaker 2: the murder?
18:05
Speaker 1: Short because she worked for them and she made money
18:06
Speaker 1: she kept from mouse shut and now that it's now,
18:09
Speaker 1: you can make money from a book. All right, all right,
18:12
Speaker 1: let's move on to Susan Lawrence. If you remember the
18:15
Speaker 1: name Susan Lawrence, he's the perfect neighbor. He is the
18:17
Speaker 1: perfect neighbor.
18:18
Speaker 2: Good job hat a lady.
18:21
Speaker 1: You hate that lady. Everybody hates that lady.
18:23
Speaker 2: I don't know who.
18:24
Speaker 1: Well, I felt like the catfish mom was probably the
18:27
Speaker 1: most hated woman in the world at that short in time.
18:31
Speaker 1: But then Susan Lawrence came along, and now every she
18:34
Speaker 1: took the title. Yes she did. So here we are
18:36
Speaker 1: with Susan Lawrence again. A jury found Susan Lorenz guilty
18:40
Speaker 1: of manslaughter after she shot a j Owens her locked
18:43
Speaker 1: front door, killing her. This is back in June of
18:45
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. Lorenz was sentenced to twenty five years
18:48
Speaker 1: in prison and has maintained that she was the victim
18:51
Speaker 1: of harassment from Owen's and Owen's.
18:53
Speaker 2: Children of course.
18:55
Speaker 1: Owen's mother, Pamela Dias, filed a wrongful death suit against
18:58
Speaker 1: both Lorenz and the owner of the quedplex quadplex, sorry,
19:02
Speaker 1: the owner of the quadplex.
19:04
Speaker 2: Would you call it a quadplex? It's not a quadplex.
19:08
Speaker 1: It's a quad plex.
19:08
Speaker 2: Sounds like it's easily he's suffering from quid plex.
19:12
Speaker 1: It's a quad plex where she lived. The suit says
19:16
Speaker 1: that Charles Gabbard, who was the one who owned the property,
19:19
Speaker 1: should have known that Lorenz had a propensity for gross
19:22
Speaker 1: negligence and or intentional harm. You know, we talked about that.
19:27
Speaker 2: It's a little bit of a stretch, but I totally
19:28
Speaker 2: think there's something there.
19:29
Speaker 1: There might be There might be that he was on
19:32
Speaker 1: notice of the problems than that.
19:34
Speaker 2: She was maybe a little that's not your property, that's
19:38
Speaker 2: common area, or did he tell her put a no
19:41
Speaker 2: trespassing sign on there? Therefore he's supporting her and kicking
19:45
Speaker 2: the kids out, you know, stuff like that.
19:47
Speaker 1: So I know the headlines with this update a lot.
19:50
Speaker 1: It says like Susan Lorenz writes letter, you know, and
19:54
Speaker 1: but what people don't understand is she's writing the letter
19:56
Speaker 1: because she's writing the letter as a response to the
19:58
Speaker 1: wrongful death suit.
20:00
Speaker 2: So this is her actual I don't think she's supposed
20:02
Speaker 2: to writing a nasty letter.
20:04
Speaker 1: She's not just writing a letter, she's actually this is
20:07
Speaker 1: her response to the wrongful destiny. And I from my takeaway,
20:11
Speaker 1: I don't think she's represented by counsel. It seems like, well,
20:13
Speaker 1: she's an attorney because she's a doctor, right, so now
20:17
Speaker 1: she's representing herself. It seems like so. In a handwritten
20:20
Speaker 1: letter filed with the court, Lorenz responds to allegations in
20:24
Speaker 1: the lawsuit and reiterates her accusations that Owen's and her
20:27
Speaker 1: children were the aggressors. Lorenz claims that Owen's children would
20:31
Speaker 1: come over to my apartment and do ding dong ditch.
20:34
Speaker 2: You know, how how can that justify murder? Obviously it
20:37
Speaker 2: never just like it's like I know I killed her,
20:40
Speaker 2: but these kids were reading my doorbell, they.
20:43
Speaker 1: Were loud, and I know they were playing for.
20:45
Speaker 2: Playing frisbee, Lorenz says in the letter, kiss off.
20:50
Speaker 1: She pisses everyone off. Lorenz says in the letter that
20:52
Speaker 1: she wants to quote counter suit for slander, libel, and
20:57
Speaker 1: defamation of character for damages that exceed fifty thou dollars
21:01
Speaker 1: against Owen's mother.
21:02
Speaker 2: The body cams didn't defame her.
21:04
Speaker 1: Character, right, so she wants to counter sue against Owen's mother,
21:10
Speaker 1: the minor children, and the property owner. Lorenz's letter says
21:15
Speaker 1: that the property owner failed to secure the property correctly
21:18
Speaker 1: and allowed the victim and her children to harass her.
21:22
Speaker 1: Lorenz closes the letter by writing, quote completion of fact
21:25
Speaker 1: and expert discovery to follow.
21:28
Speaker 2: So you know what, my advice to the landlord is
21:31
Speaker 2: a better background check when you get some tenants.
21:34
Speaker 1: I don't know that what what would show up? She
21:35
Speaker 1: probably had no prior.
21:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what. You call the prior landlord where
21:41
Speaker 2: she lived and say what was she a problem? And
21:43
Speaker 2: they'd be like hell, yeah, you're saying background check.
21:46
Speaker 1: Don't just like pull up a like a criminal background check.
21:50
Speaker 1: You're saying, call an act act.
21:53
Speaker 2: Yes, what he personality is like absolutely yeah. And then
21:56
Speaker 2: if you're like, all this lady like doesn't have a job,
21:58
Speaker 2: isn't doing anything, and she has a I mean that's
22:00
Speaker 2: a reason though.
22:01
Speaker 1: Look you shouldn't have a shotgun. She had a handgun.
22:03
Speaker 2: Well, it's no better.
22:05
Speaker 1: Court records do not list any attorney for Lorenz in
22:07
Speaker 1: the civil case. No hearing dates have been set, but
22:10
Speaker 1: that was what she was writing, was her response to
22:12
Speaker 1: the wrongful death suit.
22:13
Speaker 2: Because I did see the headline and it made it
22:14
Speaker 2: seem like it did. She just outright wrote a letter,
22:18
Speaker 2: right and had the goal to like send this out
22:21
Speaker 2: to the families and stuff like that, right.
22:23
Speaker 1: Which I mean, what she wrote is ridiculous, but she
22:26
Speaker 1: did do it. And in response to the wrongful death
22:30
Speaker 1: suit that's they filed again.
22:32
Speaker 2: She should respond.
22:33
Speaker 1: But here's my question though, I mean, filing a wrongful
22:35
Speaker 1: death suit against her, what what are you going to?
22:37
Speaker 1: She's in prison for twenty five years and the woman
22:39
Speaker 1: doesn't have any assets, so I don't know.
22:42
Speaker 2: Maybe she has U renderous insurance?
22:44
Speaker 1: Does insurance cover look up?
22:48
Speaker 2: All right?
22:48
Speaker 1: Thanks guys for listening to our update episode. As always,
22:52
Speaker 1: we appreciate it, and you can find us on our
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Speaker 1: own feed, so make sure you follow us there and
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Speaker 1: make sure you leave a review. So thanks so much
22:58
Speaker 1: for listening.
22:59
Speaker 2: Thank you people,