Latest / In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch / Brad Lander

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Brad Lander · In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch

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I am Rabbi Ami Hirsch of the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue in New York.
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And you're listening to "In These Times."
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We are in the midst of an important mayoral campaign in New York
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City with local, national, and even international ramifications.
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Brad Lander is New York City's comptroller and a former three term
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city councilman from Brooklyn's 39th District who's running for the Democratic
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nomination for Mayor of New York City.
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Comptroller Lander is also a dedicated Jew steeped in the reform movement.
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He grew up in St. Louis's congregation, chare Amme, where
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he was active in the youth group.
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He taught Sunday School, attended a union for Reform Judaism summer camp, and was
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a national Social Action Vice President of NFTY, the Reform Youth Movement.
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I'm pleased that he reached out to me to participate in our mayoral forum
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to share his vision for New York City.
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And to probe deeply into the issues that are important to
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Americans and American Jews.
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New York City controller, uh, Brad Lander.
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Welcome to in these Times.
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Thank you so much.
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Honored to be here.
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It's a pleasure to have.
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You we're in the midst of a pretty heated New York mayoral campaign.
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How goes the campaign from your perspective?
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I love being out there.
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Honestly, every day this morning I was out in bed, sty and I talked
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to a woman who's on her way to take care of 102 year old patient.
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She's been taken care of for 15 years.
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Who she loves, but is worried that her family is just in it to try to get
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the value of her home when the woman dies, you know, and she's trying to
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figure out what do I do control her?
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Or last week I got to be the commencement speaker at CUNY City College.
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And those kids are incredible.
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And just like a hundred years ago when it was Jewish immigrant kids,
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now they're from all around the world.
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I love the city.
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And when its government is working well, good things can happen.
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I wish we were talking more about those kinds of issues on the campaign trail
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because New Yorkers are hungry for a safer, a more affordable, a better run.
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New York City.
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But I like being out there talking to 'em and you know, the knife
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fighting of politics is what it is.
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You've been in, uh, public life for many, many years.
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What is it that draws people like you to want to be in public life,
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along with what you just described as the knife fighting in politics?
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Honestly, a lot of it for me is a deep Jewish upbringing.
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And those values, both of, of Tikun Olam that you're assigned this responsibility
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to try to repair what's broken.
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That everyone is created bezel, Elohim in God's image.
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I always found very motivating.
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And then you get to New York City, so you know I'm from the Midwest.
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You get to New York City and what an incredible place to be a Jew and also to
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meet people from everywhere around the.
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Planet and think, what can this city do to make life like this actually work?
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Because when it's not working, people are really let down.
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If their public schools aren't good for their kids, they're heartbroken.
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When they don't feel safe on the subway, this incredible
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thing we have isn't working.
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So when I got to New York, the job I first got was with a community
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development affordable housing group called the Fifth Avenue Committee.
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There mostly were a lot of abandoned buildings that during the
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fiscal crisis had been abandoned.
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The city took them over, the city, did a terrible job running them, and people
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were living in abominable conditions.
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And what they wanted to do was take over their buildings, get them fixed up, and
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have a safe and decent place to live.
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And I was 23, like what did I know?
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But they saw in me somebody who could help.
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Hired me to help make government work better for them.
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And that's what I learned how to do, how to help 'em get the financing and get
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the permits and work with government.
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And that meant these mostly, you know, black and latino working class families,
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but it's a pretty diverse neighborhood.
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Park Slope and Wanis and Red Hook near there.
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We were able to make huge change and help thousands of people stay in their
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homes and neighborhoods come back to life, and I fell in love with that.
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Working together with people just like struggling to kind
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of gut out a decent life.
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Seeing that New York City government in partnership with nonprofits and
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people working on the ground could be a vehicle for a common life together.
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That would mean everybody had.
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A decent home they could afford in a safe neighborhood with
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a good school for their kids.
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And I loved doing that.
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And I just got bit with that public service bug and have been
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working hard on it ever since.
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Do you think, um, politics is a nastier business now than when you first entered?
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Whew.
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I mean, look, these are not good times.
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I mean, with Donald Trump sending the National Garden in LA and to these
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other cities and being so polarized and having our, both, our empathy
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so flattened, but also trust in government at such low levels and in
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many cases deservedly so because it's not actually delivering for people.
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Yeah, I think it's worse than when I got in now.
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Way back when I was working at the Fifth Avenue Committee, I did have
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a contractor who was in cahoots with the council member at the time, angel
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Rodriguez, come try to bribe me basically.
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So it's been corrupt and dirty a long time, or parts of it have
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been corrupt and dirty a long time.
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But yes, I think these times are worse.
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I think the combination of.
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Of Trumpism and political polarization and weakened trust in government make
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it worse, you know, and certainly in New York City, you know, add to that
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things the pandemic did to weaken trust, things that October 7th has done to
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weaken trust and make things worse.
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You know, whatever I, I know we can do better or I wouldn't be running.
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There's a lot that's still inspiring, like the kids at the city college
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commencement, I got to speak at last week.
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But yeah, I think it's worse than usual.
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What do you think are the key issues in this campaign?
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That is the primaries are coming to an end in a couple of weeks.
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Yeah.
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And, uh, why do you think you're the best candidate to lead the city?
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You know, my campaign mantra is I'm running to deliver a safer, more
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affordable and better run New York City.
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I'll get to Trump in a minute, but I think those are the top
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three New York City issues.
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People don't feel safe in their neighborhoods and on the subway, and
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we've gotta confront those issues and I will end street homelessness for
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people with serious mental illness.
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Keep Jesse TI on as police commissioner and confront the public
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safety problems the city is facing.
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More affordable is obviously on so many people's minds.
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People can't afford the rent or imagine they'd be able to buy a home.
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My, my own kids, you know, my youngest just graduated from college.
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They don't think they'd be able to buy a home in the city in the way
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that my wife and I were able to do.
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And in 1996, we bought a co-op for $125,000.
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Cost of living, childcare, housing, you know, just income's not keeping up.
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With what it costs to live here.
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Uh, that's been my whole life's work from long before I was in public office.
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I know how to build and save affordable housing and how to help
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make the city more affordable.
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Better run is in people, don't sort of say it this way, but people are
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fed up with Eric Adams corruption.
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They want to trust city hall.
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They don't want someone who's got crony contractors and corrupt.
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Deputy Mayors and I got a 30 year track record of public integrity, cleaning up
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corruption and making government work for people so safer, more affordable,
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and better run like what I have.
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I've got the progressive values that New Yorkers share and the
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management chops to make government work to actually deliver on them.
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Then I'll just add the Trump layer.
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I mean, with what's going on right now.
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New Yorkers need a mayor with the guts to stand up to Donald Trump with the basic
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New York Democratic values of wanting to invest in our public hospitals and
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public schools and affordable housing, what governments supposed to help people
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do, and with the smarts and strategy.
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To manage our budget in a way that can be effective in the times we're facing.
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We're not gonna have unlimited resources in this era.
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So what do we do about those cuts?
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How do we protect basic services?
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And yeah, that's what I'm offering is a, maybe a combination of ambitious
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solutions to our problems that like a progressive New York Democratic vision
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and a real management experience and chops to actually deliver on my premises.
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Can you expand on the threat that you see from, uh, Trumpism and the
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Trump administration and how it would affect the citizens of New York?
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The first cut they've announced they were making was housing vouchers, and there's
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8,000 New Yorkers that are gonna lose the housing voucher that pays for their homes.
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And if we don't do something, they're gonna be homeless.
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That'll be 8,000 more homeless families and it'll wind up costing New York City
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a lot more money because having people in homeless shelters is way more expensive.
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That's just one small example, but the budget cuts to healthcare, to
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housing, to education are going to affect New Yorkers broadly.
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And you, you think these budget cuts are for the purposes of giving tax
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cuts to the wealthier Americans?
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Is that what the trade off is?
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I mean the bill that the house passed and that Trump is advocating.
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That's what it does.
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Yes.
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It imposes huge cuts to core services in healthcare, food stamps, housing,
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and it gives big tax breaks to the rich.
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Ironically, it gives big tax breaks to the rich more outside of New York
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than in New York because the whole salt cap issue is a little more
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complicated than I first thought.
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Yes, that is what it does.
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And whether that's because he wants to reward billionaire donors or just
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because he's got some idea that like those should slash government because
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Elon Musk thought it was a good idea.
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I can't really tell you.
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I can't see into Trump's head obviously, but it is going to have
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real devastating impacts, you know, the New York Health and hospitals.
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It gets a quarter of its budget from the federal government.
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New York City schools get $2 billion.
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You know, those 8,000 families are already, even without
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this budget, gonna lose their.
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Housing vouchers.
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And then there's a whole set of things that are more about our values.
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I mean, Jews, immigrant New Yorkers.
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I went last Thursday with this great group immigrant arc to observe in immigration
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court at two 90 Broadway and the three families that I wound up accompanying.
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Had what happened to this kid, Dylan Contreras, this New York
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City school kid who they say we're dropping your deportation case.
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That sounds good to you, except what it really means is they're then stripping
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you of your asylum application and making you subject to expedited removal.
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Everybody else that's had that happen has then immediately been picked up
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by ICE agents and arrested and started to be processed for deportation.
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So they're like, okay, controller.
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That just happened to this family.
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The first one was a 25-year-old dad with a 2-year-old kid.
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Second one was a couple, third was a couple with two school kids.
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Can you walk with them out through the building and they're probably going to
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be detained, but let's see what happens.
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And we got in the elevator shaking.
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And lo and behold, I don't know if, because I had my NYPD detail with
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me, or just because they knew who I was or I. If it was just, you know,
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whatever, something from above.
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But I was able to walk with each of those three families out of the building
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and get them to the subway where they could go reconnect with their families
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and in one case, their consulate.
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But you know, this is the greatest immigrant city the
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world has ever known and having.
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Federal agents and troops try to strip that from us.
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You know, of the 8 million New Yorkers, 40% are immigrants or foreign born.
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50% live in mixed status households, including 1 million children,
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and a huge number of them will be subject to these wretched policies.
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What is your view on immigration?
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Uh, how do you make the distinction between immigrants who are going
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through a legal process and undocumented immigrants, and do you
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think there should be a distinction?
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And if so, how should the distinction be enforced?
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I mean, I will say luckily I'm not running to be, you know, a president
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or to set immigration policy.
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I think there's no doubt that the volumes of immigration that happened
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during the Biden administration.
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Have presented enormous challenges for the whole country and the city.
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I think what I'm focused on is what New York City can do to give people, you
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know, if you're here, like it's better if you're working than if you're not working.
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So you don't have to be in our shelter.
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And it's better to have your kids in our school.
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So there're learning rather than not learning.
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There's some basic things New York City should do.
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Look, everyone is entitled under International Law to a credible Fear.
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Hearing if you are here and you've applied for asylum, which is at
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least all those three families that I saw last Thursday and most of the
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families we're talking about, you're entitled to a credible fear hearing.
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And if you don't have a credible fear of persecution, then your
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asylum case can be denied and sent you, sent back to where you were.
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It's only 20% ish of those who get those hearings who are found to have it.
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But I don't want to be guessing between the, which one in five would be
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killed or imprisoned if they go back.
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That's what due process is about and the fact that we can't deliver that
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quickly is not on these families.
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So we should fix that and we should give people their credible fear hearings in
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an honest way that respects due process.
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Those who don't have a credible fear can be sent back, and
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those who do we should welcome.
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With open arms.
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We're very far from that.
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And that's not New York City policy, but that's how I view it.
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Are you worried that what's going on in, uh, Los Angeles could happen in New York?
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Yes, absolutely.
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I think it, it likely will.
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I. What would that mean?
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That there would be, um, uh, Marines on Fifth Avenue, uh,
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you know, whether it's National Guard and or active duty Marines sent in.
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But yes, I mean, I think what it will look like is ratcheted
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up immigration enforcement.
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I. Targeted in immigrant communities, so not just people like I saw
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down at two 90 Broadway, but extra aggressive actions in Corona or
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Elmhurst or you know, who knows where.
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Some immigrant in the Bronx, there's plenty of immigrant families that
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will ratchet up protests and then yes, I think he's likely to call the
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National Guard or Active Duty Marines.
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And to provoke conflict.
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Trump's goal there is to make people afraid, but also to stoke conflict.
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And most of the protesters will be peaceful, nonviolent protesters
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walking through the streets saying, you know, give people due process, but
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some will be agitators and will break property, will throw things at cops.
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That will ratchet up levels of conflict, giving Trump more excuse to keep sending
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National Guard or, or Marines in hopes of showing scenes of lawlessness.
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And that's what's happening in Los Angeles.
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You know, I guess I saw that, you know, two of Eric Adams deputies were
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out playing golf with Trump and maybe.
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But I, I don't, I think he'll do it here because, you know, New
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York is a place he's very focused on, and I think he'll probably do
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it here while Eric Adams is mayor.
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And then I think he'll probably keep doing it, you know, we'll see where we are.
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January is a long time from now, but the next mayor sure should be
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ready and, and I'm getting ready.
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Part of why I've said.
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On the one hand, I want to keep Jesse Tisch as police commissioner.
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I believe she's built a lot of trust inside the NYPD and with New Yorkers.
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At the same time, I'm gonna work hard to make sure that the NYPD
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does a good job of distinguishing.
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Between those folks who are engaged in genuinely nonviolent protest or civil
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disobedience, and those who are agitators and doesn't give an excuse, like those
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who are agitators, who are breaking the law, who are damaging property threatening
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people's safety should be arrested.
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But it's also a priority to enable peaceful, nonviolent protest
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so that you are deescalating.
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Standing up against this authoritarian overreach and not
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giving excuses for even more.
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Uh, you mentioned the police, uh, you're, uh, from the progressive
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wing of the Democratic party.
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I think you proudly described yourself as a progressive part of that progressive
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wing, uh, called for, and I think, still believes in defunding the police.
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What's your view on that?
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Yeah, I've said this
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a lot on the campaign trail and you know, I think progressives, myself
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included, were slow to respond to rising disorder coming out of the pandemic.
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And you know what I wanna do?
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We're supposed to have 35,000 officers on the street right now.
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We're about 1500 below that, and the numbers going down.
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So I think by January will be 2000 ish officers below our budget headcount.
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And I wanna get back to that budget headcount of 35,000 officers.
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I wanna keep Commissioner Tisch on.
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Police are of course needed to get illegal guns off the street, respond to violent
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crime, uh, deal with hate crimes, and keep Jews and, and others safe in the face of
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rising, antisemitic, and hate violence.
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And also.
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No amount of policing is gonna connect mentally ill, homeless people to stable
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housing with services, which is what gets them off the subways and the stoops
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and sidewalks of our neighborhood.
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So I've got a detailed plan for ending street homelessness for
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people with serious mental illness.
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Built on the model they're using in Houston and Denver and Salt Lake City
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and that we actually used here to end Veteran Street Homelessness 15 years ago.
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It's called Housing First.
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Rather than pushing people to go to shelter where they're often
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uncomfortable, you offer this set of folks direct placement in a supportive
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housing unit, and it works to keep 'em stably housed 70 to 90% of the time.
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So maybe you'd call that a both.
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And strategy policing for violent crime and.
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Thoughtful and strategic social services to solve some of the
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underlying problems that grow into danger if you don't solve them.
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So just to make sure that I understood what you were saying, um.
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You, you don't believe in cutting the funding of the police in order to
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give it to other sectors of society.
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You believe in both proper police funding and oversight as well as
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taking care of the social problems.
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Is that an accurate,
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that's exactly right.
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And you know, solving, getting people off the street into stable housing
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will save money over time because jail and hospital are so expensive.
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Supportive housing is actually less expensive, so there's no need to cut
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some other part of the budget to do that.
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And yes, it's also Jesse Tisch is showing the possibility that
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you can have accountable and fair policing and good policing.
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Crime has come down every month on her watch.
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Last month was the first month ever when the NYPD did not dismiss any
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of the civilian complaint review board's, disciplinary recommendations.
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So yes, exactly what you say, invest in proper policing, support,
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accountability, so that you have both effective and fair policing.
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And that is not simple, but it is the right goal and it's possible.
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And then invest in the social safety net and opportunity
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with attention to outcomes.
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I mean, this is why safer, more affordable and better run is my mantra.
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It's not like endlessly pumping money into pipe dreams.
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When I say we will end street homelessness for people with serious
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mental illness, I. It's pretty precise.
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I'd like to end all homelessness, but I'm gonna make promises I know
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I can keep and, you know, show my work, have real outcomes, show
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people how we're getting it done.
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Controller, lender, I'd like to ask you specifically about some
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of the Jewish issues that are.
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Prominent in the campaign.
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First of all, just for our listeners to understand more
20:52
about your Jewish upbringing.
20:54
Uh, as you know, I'm a reformed rabbi.
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This is a reformed synagogue.
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The plurality of American Jews are members of reformed synagogues.
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So you're in a very hospitable, uh, terrain here.
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You've said on several occasions that you're so Jewish, you almost became
21:09
a rabbi or something like that.
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Oh, it's really true.
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Could you give us more background on
21:14
that?
21:15
Absolutely.
21:15
So I grew up in St. Louis, Missouri, in a synagogue, you know, that we
21:19
called Sheme, I think you might pronounce it, but, uh, Jeffrey Stiffen
21:24
was the rabbi when I was a youngster.
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Jim, he's a close friend of mine.
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I remember him.
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Jim Bennett's the rabbi there.
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Now, Susan Tve officiated at my Bar mitzvah, seven months
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pregnant with her first kid.
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You know, I was active in synagogue Youth Group, went to Jewish summer
21:41
camp at the Union for Reformed Judaism's camp outside of Indianapolis.
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Uh, in college I was active at Hillel.
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I was the National Social Action Vice President for the
21:50
Reformed Jewish Youth Movement.
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I taught Sunday school and, you know, Hebrew school and, and Jewish music.
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I was only a Soso song leader, but I was a great canoe
22:00
instructor at Jewish summer camp.
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You know, one of my big actions as the leader of the reformed
22:05
Jewish Youth Movement was in 1980.
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Seven.
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We had the big march for Soviet Jewry on the mall and we helped
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lead the youth contingent for that.
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And we did a big economic justice kind of anti-hunger project.
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And that really is so much of what launched me into social
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justice work and then politics.
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Raising Jewish kids in this city has just been great.
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And I worry about them like every parent does.
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But you know, they both are bar and bat mitzvah here.
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My daughter just graduated from University of Chicago.
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She was an intern at the Lower East Side Tenement Museum, and she just like
22:40
took a class of Yiddish in college.
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Like they love this city and its Jewish history and I want every Jewish kid to be
22:48
safe and nourished like they have been.
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And then all of that history is in the liberal Jewish space.
22:56
When I ran for City council in 2009, it so happens that the council district
23:00
that connects Park Slope and Cobble Hill.
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Includes a chunk of Borough Park and so I had a, in the heat of politics,
23:09
introduction to Ultra Orthodox Jews, almost none of whom voted for me, but with
23:14
whom I've developed very deep and lifelong ties, arguing a lot about Judaism.
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I. I don't know.
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One of the people that's my favorite is a Rabbi Alex Rappaport, who's the
23:25
founder of the Masbia Soup Kitchen Network, these kosher soup kitchens.
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And now he invites me every year to make Matza in his backyard Matza bakery.
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And what an incredible blessing that is.
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Now, some of that's hard.
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I joke when I open events in N Orthodox spaces, it's like such a wonderful
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thing to be with so many dear friends and cousins, none of whom vote for me.
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And.
23:48
Those conflicts have always been challenging.
23:50
And then October 7th made them a lot more so, and My Israel politics,
23:55
you know, so early in this campaign, Jewish Insider, I. Which is a
23:58
conservative Jewish publication.
24:00
Dug up these letters that I wrote in 1990 when I was a college junior
24:05
at the University of Chicago to my hometown Jewish paper, the St.
24:08
Louis Jewish Light.
24:09
And they had published cartoons depicting Palestinian leadership as rats basically.
24:16
And I wrote the editor saying, please don't do that.
24:20
And I said, look, I said this in 1990, but it's true today.
24:23
I love the vision of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state.
24:28
Envisioned in the Declaration of Independence open to the in gathering
24:32
of exiles, and founded on the vision of our prophets and with full social and
24:37
political equality for everyone there.
24:39
And even then, in 1990, I said, I think that will take an end to Israel's
24:45
occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.
24:47
I say that not thinking you are gonna support that on the editorial page of the
24:51
St. Louis Jewish Light, but as someone who loves Israel and wants to see it thrive.
24:58
And those have been my politics ever since then.
25:01
And there are people that agreed and disagreed with them in 1990.
25:05
That has gotten excruciatingly more difficult since October 7th.
25:09
But even now, the place I mostly go.
25:12
To express my point of view on these issues is called Israelis for Peace.
25:16
They do a vigil in Union Square every Sunday at 5:00 PM calling for the
25:23
release of the hostages, calling for a ceasefire and the end of the war.
25:28
And for humanitarian aid, we hold up pictures of the
25:32
hostages and their families.
25:33
We hold up pictures of kids in Gaza.
25:36
And almost everyone who walks by yells at us either from the right or the left.
25:41
And I can't tell you, you know, whatever.
25:43
That's maybe the most politically popular position.
25:46
But what I can tell you is I've had it for 30 years.
25:49
To me, it's very Jewish.
25:51
I talk to a lot of Jews who disagree.
25:54
I. And welcome the dialogue as grounded as we possibly can in our
26:01
values and our collective safety.
26:04
Do you remember where you were on October 7th when you first heard the
26:07
news, and what was your reaction?
26:09
I. So I was in Philadelphia for like a one day or two day kind of
26:14
political conference, and I was headed that evening to a wedding, a
26:19
Jewish wedding in upstate New York.
26:21
And I woke up and just kind of opened my computer and started reading and I mean,
26:26
I just, at first I couldn't believe it.
26:28
I mean now we're, we're sadly like steeped in it, but I just, it
26:32
took a while to like really fully comprehend how devastating it was.
26:38
So I was like heartbroken and bereft, and I knew instantly how bad it was gonna be.
26:43
Politically, I have to say, unfortunately, like I. I wasn't, sadly, I wasn't, I
26:48
mean, I was so angry the next day when there was that rally in Times Square,
26:52
but I knew even on, on Saturday that the politics were gonna be terrible.
26:57
Help us out on that because, uh, I can talk personally and from what
27:02
I gather from my conversations with hundreds of people who I interact
27:06
with all the time, the immediate.
27:09
Protests against Israel.
27:11
Even before Israel began to respond militarily, they were
27:14
still fighting off terrorists in inside Israel's border that did.
27:19
Take us by surprise.
27:21
It took me by surprise, the vehement of that and the immediacy of that.
27:25
And I think you're saying it didn't really take you that much by surprise.
27:29
Help us figure that out.
27:30
Why is that So,
27:32
I mean, I guess I just thought, unfortunately two things were likely.
27:37
One.
27:37
I mean I, you know, I live broadly on the political left.
27:40
I mean, my coalition is left and center.
27:43
I'm controller because people who voted either for Maya Wiley or
27:47
for Katherine Garcia for mayor, voted for me for controller.
27:50
So I know people both in more progressive and more liberal or moderate spaces,
27:54
but I see the left enough to know that people were instantly going to be.
28:00
Blaming Israel, basically, and how horrible that would feel to
28:05
other progressives who care about the human rights of Palestinians.
28:09
But at that moment, were devastated and just needed people to say, Hey,
28:14
Israeli Jews are human beings, and this is a hideous terrorist attack.
28:18
Just say that.
28:20
But I, I unfortunately knew that.
28:22
That was, you know, I mean whatever only took 24 hours for it to happen.
28:25
But I, I just sadly was not surprised by it.
28:28
And then also I just, I thought it was pretty likely and NYA would hugely
28:35
overreact and that the space that there could have hopefully been, because there
28:41
was always gonna be that kind of leftist.
28:44
anti-Israel thing.
28:47
But I do think there was a period when there might have been more solidarity
28:51
from around the world, if there could have been a way of responding to Hamas
28:57
that didn't cause so much devastation.
29:00
And I just thought both things would happen.
29:02
I thought the leftist response would be bad and rip the left apart and make me
29:06
angry, and I thought Netanyahu would.
29:10
Do more or less what he's done.
29:13
And I wish, I mean, I really wish I had been wrong on both counts, but,
29:18
but I was not surprised by either.
29:21
So you weren't particularly surprised?
29:23
I would gather, I would extend by that on some of the university campuses that we
29:28
saw in the immediate protests that arose.
29:30
Were you surprised by the response of the administrators of some of
29:34
these universities, some of which are in New York, and are considered
29:38
among the elite institutions of higher learning in the world?
29:42
I hoped they would do better.
29:45
I guess I don't, I'm not sure what my expectations were.
29:49
It does feel like there was such, and some campuses have found
29:53
ways, you know, it feels like, like what they did at Dartmouth.
29:56
I don't know.
29:56
I looked a few places that it seemed like they were able to find,
30:00
to walk this line, right, to keep Jews safe, to provide opportunities
30:04
for people to have free speech.
30:05
And my daughter's at University of Chicago.
30:07
That's a place where.
30:09
Even the progressives value the free speech traditions, and so I hoped
30:14
for better if those administrators had figured out how to do better.
30:19
Maybe things could have gone differently here.
30:23
Can I ask you about some of the response in the Democratic Party in particular on
30:28
the left of the Democratic Party, there's been some disillusionment in the Jewish
30:32
community amongst liberal American Jews who have supported the Democratic Party.
30:37
For their entire lives, really, uh, at least two thirds of American Jews have
30:42
supported the Democrats in every way voting for them, as well as financial
30:47
support since the end of World War ii.
30:49
Since the days of FDR, I think it's fair to say that you're a progressive Zionist.
30:54
Yes.
30:55
Are you concerned about the anti-Zionism in the progressive left?
31:02
Yes.
31:02
I mean, I'm concerned about the future of liberal Judaism in general.
31:08
I, I gotta be honest, I feel like this has just been devastating, and
31:13
that's a, you know, I call myself a progressive or a liberal Zionist.
31:16
I love, I'm inspired by, I believe in the vision of Israel as a
31:20
Jewish and democratic state.
31:22
Now I'm fiercely critical of this government and of the occupation,
31:26
and even of the way it has.
31:28
Prosecuted and is prosecuting the war.
31:30
But first, I want our kids, our young people to believe in that vision.
31:35
And I'm worried that right now.
31:38
That's hard for them to do.
31:41
It's on us to show them that vision, in my opinion.
31:45
And then it's incumbent on people to make the humanity of their politics clear.
31:52
I support, you know, a two state solution, the end of the occupation,
31:55
a free and independent Palestine alongside a safe and secure Israel.
32:00
But obviously when shouting free Palestine is what that killer in Washington
32:06
and the flamethrower in Boulder do.
32:09
It's incumbent on people to present a politics.
32:12
You can stand up for Palestinian human rights without killing or attacking
32:17
Jews, and this is a time when it's important for people to be thoughtful
32:24
in their politics wherever they are.
32:27
It's not a good time for thoughtfulness and I'm worried about
32:31
what that does in so many ways.
32:33
I'm worried what that does for progressive politics, for people that are genuinely
32:38
wanna protect human rights for everyone and have to reckon with what's going
32:42
on in Gaza, but also reckon the with the rise in antisemitism, I want our
32:47
institutions of liberal higher education to thrive, and I'm worried about them.
32:52
I'm worried for our democracy because on the one hand, Jews
32:57
don't feel safe and many feel frustrated with the Democratic Party.
33:01
But on the other hand, Donald Trump is weaponizing antisemitism against
33:07
institutions that have been critical for Jewish thriving, like higher
33:11
education and due process and liberal democracy, and that's bad for everyone,
33:17
and in my opinion, very bad for Jews.
33:21
I have two more questions just to wrap the issue of, uh, antisemitism.
33:26
I don't remember a time when Jews in America have been so fearful,
33:32
including Jews in New York from, uh, physical assault, but also intellectual
33:38
and job related biases and so on.
33:42
Is that your understanding and or your experience as well and two.
33:46
What would you do as mayor?
33:48
That is not being done now?
33:51
Uh, it's definitely true.
33:52
I
33:52
mean, I just, I haven't seen Jews feeling so afraid in all
33:58
these ways, and you're right.
34:00
Some of it is, you know, after DC and Boulder, you go to a
34:03
Jewish communal event and you're just looking over your shoulder.
34:06
You're like physically anxious, and some of it is.
34:11
In the rhetoric and the language, because you know, maybe we could have been having
34:17
a conversation about what people mean by globalize the Intifada, but it's
34:22
impossible for me and others not to hear that as like it's open season on Jews.
34:26
So yes, I mean, people are feeling that fear and I'm feeling
34:30
that, and I'm feeling that fear.
34:32
What I would do, I, I've got a really comprehensive and detailed plan
34:35
for responding to antisemitism and hate crimes with more resources to
34:38
the NYPD Hate Crimes Task Force and the Mayor's Office of Hate Crimes.
34:42
If you want a police car outside your synagogue on Chab, as it should be easy to
34:46
get Richard Aborn at the Citizen's Crime Commission, has some really good online.
34:51
Tools for trying to get at extremism as it escalates.
34:56
It's kind of amazing what they can do now using kind of AI and find people who
35:00
are being radicalized and try to target.
35:05
In some cases, it's a mental health issue, so there's think there's
35:07
some things we can do there.
35:10
Then there is a lot more to do in our schools and through education
35:14
and with mayoral leadership.
35:16
And I would do it different than Eric Adams has done it.
35:18
You know, he's gotta like, I'm on your side.
35:22
And I would have more of a, we are gonna need to bring people together
35:26
and be able to have some dialogue.
35:28
So I'm gonna be more like trying to explain to people when you
35:32
say globalize the ada, I don't know, maybe in your mind you mean.
35:37
Defend the human rights of Palestinians, but let me tell you why.
35:41
What Jews here is open season on Jews, and let's try to have some dialogue that at
35:48
least identifies who wants to be on the side of humanity and keeping people safe.
35:54
Try to expand that.
35:56
I mean there are gonna be hate mongers and people trying to promote conflict,
36:01
but I think in addition to providing basic law enforcement and safety, a part of the
36:06
job of the mayor is modeling a dialogue that emphasizes that sella, Elohim, that
36:13
lets be more human to each other idea.
36:15
Mm-hmm.
36:16
There is some kind of accusation that as comptroller, you.
36:21
Instituted a policy of disinvestment from, uh, Israeli corporations
36:25
or Israel bonds or so on.
36:27
Is that true?
36:28
And if so, why did you do that?
36:29
If it's not true, here's an opportunity to respond.
36:32
It's not true.
36:33
Uh, investments in Israel have grown under my watch from about 275 to
36:40
$325 million, like grown by 15%.
36:45
That's most certainly not divestment.
36:47
That's more investment, and they're in great Israeli.
36:50
Companies.
36:51
We don't, as a matter of course, invest in foreign sovereign debt.
36:57
We don't invest in Canada bonds or French bonds like we, you know, so
37:01
we are not holders of Israel bonds, but we're invested in many Israeli
37:05
companies through equities, investments, through uh, real estate, through
37:10
private equity, through private credit.
37:13
I'm proud of those investments.
37:14
I have always opposed BDS and I always will.
37:19
My last question to you is, do you have a final message to, uh, the American
37:24
Jewish community, the New York community, and all of our listeners on the eve of a
37:28
very important New York mayor on primary.
37:31
First, I wanna thank you for giving me this opportunity and for providing the
37:34
leadership that you have been providing.
37:37
I mean, I love this city and I love what the city has been for Jewish New Yorkers.
37:42
I think that's a model of what it can be for all New Yorkers.
37:46
We're not always gonna agree with each other.
37:48
You know, it's a city with a lot of profound differences.
37:52
I joke that I think Jews have been having many of the same arguments for 2,600
37:56
years since the first exile in Babylon.
37:58
When.
37:58
Some Jews were like, let's get back to Judea.
38:01
And others were saying, Hey, have you seen, they got nightclubs and
38:04
libraries here, let's check them out.
38:07
And you know, in some ways that like more particularist, you know, strand
38:12
and that more universalist strand have been arguing with each other.
38:16
Tmu for across the generations and.
38:19
And I feel very strongly about, you know, I'm a more universal, more liberal
38:24
point of view on those things, but I love the debates and the arguments.
38:28
I want us to be able to have them safely for that to happen, you need a safer,
38:32
more affordable and better run city.
38:34
You need a mayor who will make government work effectively to deliver for you.
38:39
That's what I've been doing my whole career.
38:41
That's what I can do.
38:42
If you rank me first on June 24th.
38:45
And I'm really grateful for the opportunity to put myself out there.
38:48
And thank you for the conversation
38:50
controller, Brad Lander.
38:51
Good luck on, uh, the remainder of the campaign and thank you for giving us, uh,
38:56
this time and I look forward to conversing with you many more times down the road.
39:01
Thank
39:01
you, AMI.
39:08
I think that Brad Lander really could have been a good rabbi.
39:11
I hope he considers that a compliment.
39:13
At least it is intended.
39:15
As such, controller Lander is smart, eloquent, personable, and from childhood
39:20
has had a strong Jewish identity rooted in Judaism's concern for society at large.
39:27
We spend considerable time in our conversation speaking
39:29
about the plight of immigrants.
39:31
On the one hand, it is imperative for any nation to control its borders.
39:36
A country that has lost control of who enters its territory.
39:40
Is a country that has relinquished much of its sovereignty.
39:44
The failure of the previous administration to secure America's borders contributed
39:49
significantly to Donald Trump's victory.
39:52
Furthermore, it is right and proper for America to vet whom it allows
39:57
to enter, and under what conditions.
40:00
There is a limit to what any one country can do to relieve human suffering.
40:04
Honesty requires us to acknowledge that uncontrolled immigration has
40:08
the potential to destabilize society.
40:12
Some really bad people ride the wave of mass immigration.
40:16
We have seen that in parts of Europe and the United States.
40:20
We should prevent people with anti-American, anti-Western or
40:23
anti-Semitic views from entering our country at the same time.
40:29
Mindful of the fear, even terror, that some immigrants are experiencing now
40:33
in the United States and New York City.
40:36
It is important for me to emphasize Judaism's approach to the foreigner,
40:40
the weak, and the dispossessed.
40:43
You shall not wrong a stranger or repress him for you or
40:46
strangers in the land of Egypt.
40:47
The Torah states, you know, the soul of a foreigner for you are
40:51
foreigners in the land of Egypt.
40:54
To bear witness to the struggle, pain, vulnerability, and universality of the
40:58
human condition, and to work to relieve this suffering is also a Jewish value.
41:04
I am not opposed to reasonable restrictions on immigration, but we
41:08
must cease this callous cacophony of contempt, it's intention or effect to
41:14
dehumanize immigrants and desensitize us.
41:18
Try to step into the shoes of the dispossessed.
41:22
To step into the other shoes is the beginning of morality and
41:26
the first step of compassion.
41:29
Try to feel the desperation.
41:32
It should be familiar to Jews.
41:34
We don't have to go all the way back to Egypt.
41:37
Just think back two or three or four generations.
41:41
We, Jews were those people.
41:44
The wretched refuse that no one wanted the world shut.
41:47
Its doors to us too.
41:49
Still living among us are survivors of the great inferno.
41:53
Do not allow the three generations since to dim your memory or
41:57
dull your moral sensitivity.
42:00
Several years ago I met one remarkable Afghani refugee in Solanica Greece,
42:05
who reminded me that the difference between us is that he was born
42:09
in Afghanistan and I was not.
42:11
Most American Jews live here because of a decision of an ancestor who,
42:15
whether by foresight or fortune.
42:17
Decided to leave before the gates of hell bolted shut.
42:22
Were it not for that decision.
42:23
We would not be alive.
42:25
We would never have been born.
42:27
Many of our ancestors who disembarked on Ellis Island could not speak English.
42:32
Had that been a condition of immigration, we would not likely
42:35
be Americans or even alive.
42:38
The very arguments voiced against immigrants today were
42:41
used against us yesterday.
42:45
As we enter this intense and historical election season in New York City,
42:49
bear in mind Judaism's values.
42:52
Judaism is for freedom, the expansion of human liberties.
42:56
We despise racism, misogyny, xenophobia, intolerance, and hatred.
43:02
We are for justice and righteousness.
43:04
We are for peace.
43:06
We are for tolerance, acceptance and love.
43:09
And we are for mercy.
43:11
The entire body of prophetic values may be reduced to the one insistence
43:16
that the weak and the dispossessed be treated with respect and dignity.
43:23
Early in the Book of Genesis, the Bible describes the murder
43:25
of Abel by his brother Cain.
43:28
Am I my brother's keeper?
43:29
Cain asks His question was sincere.
43:32
How was he to know who taught him morality to respect the
43:36
life and dignity of his brother?
43:38
Humanity had just begun.
43:40
These were the only two brothers on earth, the entire rest
43:44
of the Bible and everything.
43:46
Literally every word of the bottomless sea of post biblical Jewish tradition is
43:52
dedicated to answering Kane's Question.
43:56
Yes, you are your brother's keeper.
43:59
All of Judaism is devoted to helping the human creature.
44:03
Climb out of the primordial moral swamp into which we were born, and
44:07
to pacify the destructive impulses of our nature to tame the beast.
44:17
Until next time.
44:18
This is in these times.