Latest / Pod Therapy / #457: AI Job Loss, Meta Cognitive Therapy, Divorce Defamation

Transcript

#457: AI Job Loss, Meta Cognitive Therapy, Divorce Defamation · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: 15% 15 votes to 13 votes. There you go. You know, Hey,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the polls are open for 24 hours.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: So let's keep it going. We'll see. And we haven't
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: counted the mail-in ballots.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: He's probably going to try to put a stop to
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: those right away.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: I'm sure.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: I don't have from fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. This is
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: pod therapy, real people, real problems and real therapists.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: You could have seen this coming. Uh, ask questions.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: Um, i'm nick that's jim that's whitney yeah time for
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: some pod therapy no but no but here's the thing
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: i need to force myself to stop using the script
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: yeah i become dependent on.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: The script i can't tell why i relate i mean
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: i the outro stuff i i look to the yeah.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: I just i've i didn't i wasn't ready i didn't have.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: It up yeah um Just start chanting it to yourself.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: But after nine years, I should be able to do this.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I'm with you on that.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: There's been times for whatever reason I can't get to
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: the script at the outro and I'll wing it. And
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I get really damn close, like to almost.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Word for word of what it says. Also, we need
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: to change the script.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Hey, go ahead.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: No, that's literally your job, your pre-production. You want to
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: switch roles? You want to do post?
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: No, I don't.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Fuck, it sucks. It's the worst job ever. Hey, everybody.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Free isn't that much fun either. All of this sucks.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Why do we keep doing this?
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: I love it. It's fun.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You guys. Anyway, welcome back, friends.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: If you would like to hear about Nick's upcoming housewarming
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: party and how you can get a ticket.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Patreon.com slash therapy. Also, thank you to all of our
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Discord members who answered a lightning poll yesterday. that gave
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: us some uh some good feedback and i think a
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: definitive answer on this question but uh we'll.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: See the 50 50 response very yeah that's right well
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: at the end of the show we will uh we
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: will read the official result okay we'll say that they
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: have the whole hour and a half to uh to
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: get in those answers even though it's a 23 hour
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: poll uh but yeah we'll see and we'll get the
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: the final answer on that but yeah what about do
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: okay last question on this Do you go barefoot at
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: your friend's housewarming party? Or do you feel like you
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: better bring socks? Is it okay to be barefoot? I
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: think barefoot's completely fine. Yeah. Is that a thing? Is
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: that like.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: Do we need another poll?
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: I'd feel weird being barefoot in somebody's house.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Oh, you do?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: I think if I request that you take your shoes off,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: then I have to accept whatever state your foot is in.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: This is true. If I, as the host, say like,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: in my home, I'd like you to not wear shoes. Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Beyond that. Like, I have made the request that I
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: can make at that point. So right now I'm wearing, like, Birkenstocks. Yeah.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: If I came over to Nick's for the housewarming party, which,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: by the way, I won't be, so don't save me
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: a plate.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: And there were booties. I will take off these sandals
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: and I will put the booties on my bare feet.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: That's weird. And I will walk around with the booties.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: That's bizarre. I'm supposed to. That's what they're there for.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: That's the weirdest thing I've ever.
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: Heard of in my life.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: Jim's feet are so dirty.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: He loves to, okay?
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: It's not weird.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: You don't know where my feet have been, buddy.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: I don't want to hurt this place. These are my friends.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: When was the last time your feet were washed?
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Not often. Not often. And not well. Have
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: you ever seen that comedian who talks about how whenever
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: you take a shower, you just let the soap run
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: down there, but when's the last time you really sat
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: down and did it? It's like, none of you do it.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: You're all fucking liars. You don't wash your feet?
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: Oh, this again.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: No, that's what the comedian says. I do, obviously. This
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: animal doesn't. I mean, yeah, every piggy. I get in there.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: I have a special foot-washing brush. Is that what it says?
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: A scrubber? Yeah, that's what I said.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: A chisel.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: A chisel.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. Anyway. I have seen the foot washing mats,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: like the scrubber mat. You just squirt some soap onto
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: and then you step on them and just scrub your
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: feet on them. Get a little rub down. Because I've
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: got a little scrubber thing and I use that on
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: my feet and everything and that's real nice. But I
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: think a little scrubby mat Would be good. I don't
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: know if I could sell it to the wife. No. Really? Yeah.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I like the idea. Maybe she'd surprise me.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Okay. Do you use the little pumice stone thing? No. Okay.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: I have a little scrubber.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: I like that. It's like a silicone loofah, basically. Yeah.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: Instead of having a loofah, I have a silicone thing.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: It's easier to keep clean and all.
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: Okay. Yeah.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Would you hose down your feet before going into the
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: housewarming party if you're coming in bare naked feeties? Just
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: a quick little hose down.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: This is some weird questions, Jim.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Quick little spruce. I mean, I suppose if there's a
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: foot shower in the front hallway. Then we're on the
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: same page. I suppose I'd use it. Yeah. Well, no, no, no.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Laura and I are very biblical. We have women stationed
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: in the front.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: Good.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, I would expect the host to do it himself.
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just about to say, you wash the feet.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Obviously, it's been a while since he read the Bible.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: What would Jesus do? Yeah, Jesus washes their feet. He
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: doesn't assign it to bitches, Nick.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: I think in the story, I think he had people.
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: Nick knows the Bible really well.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Foot wash women, get over here.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: Clearly, you think he's the king of kings? You think
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: the king of kings is washing other people's feet? Let
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: me tell you the mystery of Jesus.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: That's why. Also, Foot Wash Women, my favorite ZZ Top song.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Foot Wash Women, make this rockin' world go round.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: That's Queen.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So close. Ah, shit. All right, we've got some great
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: questions for today's show, and we're leading off the order
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: with constant anxiety about losing my job to artificial intelligence.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Hey friends, I work as a software engineer at a
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: big tech company and all the engineers within the company
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: are basically using AI for everything now. The AI can
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: code better than me, research better than me, and can
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: basically outperform me in any sort of technical task. Has
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: a bigger dick too.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: My wife only talks about this AI. I do still
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: make the judgment call and need to steer the AI
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: into the right direction, but I genuinely feel as though
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I'm just instructing AI to do things on a day-to-day
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: basis that I start to imagine anybody else with some
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: minimal technical background can do. The only thing that I
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: personally feel that I do better is write technical design
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: documents because AI tends to write slop that's not easy
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: to read or digestible to a human. Now I just
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: have constant anxiety about how the industry will look in
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: the next decade. I'm still somewhat early in my career,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: only five years post-college, so there's still a whole career
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: ahead of me.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: But it feels like it's already dead.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: If the AI models continue to get better, I start
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: to think that my job becomes obsolete. But maybe this
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: is just the sealed fate of software engineers. The software
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: we built probably has automated away many jobs in the past,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: and now we're tasting our own medicine. I try not
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: to catastrophize, to be more present by saying, hey, I
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: still have a job today, and there's not much point
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: in thinking so ahead in the future. I can keep
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: on thinking doom and gloom about AI, And all but
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: the amount of work and projects I get from my
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: higher-ups has not changed. And I can't imagine my job
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: getting automated away in the blink of an eye as
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: of now. Like, someone still needs to manage these AI agents,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: but it's slowly coming, I feel, and there's a constant dread.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: That's called edging. It's a slow death in a way.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: To be honest, I'm only in the tech industry for
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: the money. I don't really care about the work I
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: deliver or the company. I mean, I work in an
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: evil big tech corporation that prioritizes profits over everything. But
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: it's like a sugar daddy that supports my hobbies and
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: lifestyle outside of work.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: So in a way, there's a part of me that
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: is also weirdly excited about the prospect of losing my
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: current job because it feels like it'll force me to
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: find a completely new job that might be a fresh
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: breath of air. I do have other passions that I
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: could maybe see myself trying to find a job out of.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: I guess maybe it's me jumping the gun, saying that
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: my job feels pointless because it's going to be replaced
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: by AI anyways. But we can say that for lots
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: of other things, and I just said it's for the money,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: so isn't it okay if I keep making money for now?
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know. How do I stop my brain from
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: overanalyzing constantly and just relax and be more present? Signed, Anonymous.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: What was Anonymous' job title at the top? Oh, did
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: it say it? Software engineer. Software engineer.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, man. This is a good question. I have
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: a question, and I'll answer my question, then I want
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: you guys to answer my question.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: And that is, what is the general purpose of any technology?
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: And I would answer it is to make people work less.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: And then sex.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: And then sex. I mean, to have more time for
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: sex is honestly... It's a circle. The driving factor.
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: And the accuracy proved that.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: The cotton gin?
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: That was just about fucking... That's all that was about.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: But I mean, like, the plow. Instead of having to
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: have fucking 20 motherfuckers digging up a trench of soil
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: so that you can plant a line of crops, one
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: person with a piece of technology is now able to
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: do it, and 19 people are out of a job.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah.
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's the... Well, and also the AI companies have
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: made no mystery. That's what technology does. And I mean,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: forget AI. I'm not even just talking about AI.
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Technology does this. Well, that's what Excel did. Like Excel
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: did this, right?
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: There's a room of accountants. That's it.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: And now one guy can have this sheet with all
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: these different things in it, and you can program it
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: a certain way, and it can just verify everything for you,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: and now you've condensed, right?
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: So you're absolutely right. And the AI companies have made
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: it very clear the value add they are selling, the
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: enterprise value add is... We are going to reduce your
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: head count. And as of right now, I think- Like
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: I was looking today at building an app. Yeah. I
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: don't know how to build an app. For sex? It's
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: all for sex, Jim. Yeah.
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: Okay. Yeah.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: I assumed it. I just, they don't know. You know,
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: the people don't know. Yes, they do. They understand that
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: it's all for sex. They get it. They understand. They
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: get it.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: Let's do a poll.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Let's do a poll.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Do a poll.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: But no, I mean, so like- in some ways. A
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: poll poll. You're right.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Like AI, in your case, it's not putting somebody else
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: out of a job because like for a lot of people,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: we probably wouldn't have gone out and hired an app
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: developer to help us partner on something. So you might
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: take an entrepreneurial step forward because of these technologies before
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: you couldn't do.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Or you wouldn't do. It would be cost prohibitive. Yeah,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: or that I had not done.
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: And it could create a whole new business or something
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: that actually might create jobs. But we're probably right that
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: there's going to be a bending of a curve in
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of different industries. And yeah, software engineers seem
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: to be like one of the tippy top zones and coders.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: It seems like that's going to be reduced.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Well, I keep getting told about the coding and now
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: we're wading into something that I don't think any of
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: us know about. I do. Except for Jim. What I
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: keep being told about the coding is that especially for
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: the big stuff, people will still have to do it
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: for now. Because the type of coding that AI does
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: is usually kind of code on top of code. This
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: is the part that I don't know anything about.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: It needs some human.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: And they need the people to be in there to
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: cut through all of the extra stuff, all of the
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: extra slop that doesn't need to be in there that's
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: going to take up room.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: There needs to be a human in the loop for now,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: but the number of humans in the loop is reducing
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: very fast.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: That's the thing. Whereas before, when I've had app ideas before,
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: I go to software developers and say, here's an idea.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Explain to me what this would take to execute. Now, yeah,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I've cut that guy out of the loop.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: It's amazing. That guy's just gone. Yeah. Even the output.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: I use a lot of AI for education stuff, for
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: teaching at UNLV. What used to take me a ton
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: of time to like outline and create lecture notes and
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: all this stuff and then turn it into slides like
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: so much of that is so much faster now like
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: just the slide creation right and activities and vignettes and
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: all these things that would take up a big part
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: of my life in order to perform my duties and
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: it now takes almost no time, so that frees me up.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: And now he has extra time to learn new things
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: like the word vignettes. Yes, viginities. Yes, as I like
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: to call them in the biz.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: His favorite kind of dressing.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: Mm, yes.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I like a nice balsamic vignette. Newman's own vignette, yeah.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: So, okay, so we all like the idea that this
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: thing can have these huge applications, but the forecast has
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: been and is that AI, on the path it's on,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: is going to cause a huge reduction in force.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: And that will happen, right?
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: And just like other disruptive technologies, which I think the
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: point that Jacob's making, like when the railroad came, a
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: lot of horse and buggy people lost their job transporting
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. When the cars came, it created
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: new car mechanic jobs, but like the Pony Express was gone, right?
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: And so like all these things change over time. When
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: the internet came and we could send emails, there was
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: a huge reduction in post office employees, right? For the
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: average letter. A lot of correspondence didn't have to happen.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Couriers got reduced in force a lot, too. What was
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: that word?
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Courier?
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: Oh, boy.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Is that not the right word?
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: Courier?
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Are you fucking kidding me?
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: Courier.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: That stuck out to me, too.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: A courier.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: A courier.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Courier. Courier. But it's C-O-E, or U, C-O-U-R-R-I-E-R. I'm not
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: claiming that it's spelled the way it sounds.
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: Courier.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: But I am claiming that it sounds different than the
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: way that you're saying it. Whitney, say it again. A courier.
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: Courier.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: That's stupid. That's like C-U-R-R-I-E-R. Yeah, like curry. Yeah, that's
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: how it sounds. Like Steph Curry. Yeah. You're all wrong.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Steph Curry-er.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: Stupid poll. I'm all about the poll.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: All right, fine.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: I'll fire that up right now.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I'll show you. But people are going to read it.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Is it pronounced curry-er or curry-er? I'm just going to
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: do that. I'm just going to write it exactly.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: How do you pronounce this?
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: A or B? A.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not even going to tell them which way. I'm
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: just going to say Jim is right or everybody else
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: in the room is right. This is another hill I
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: will die on. But yeah, so jobs get eliminated. But
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: this is a really good question because I don't know
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: if y'all have started seeing this therapeutic wise. I am
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: having this happen a lot. Like I have a lot
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: of tech industry people that I just happen to have
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: on my caseload.
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: And they've been taking me through the iterations of this
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: and the way this is changing their lives.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because a lot of the big companies are already
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: starting those layouts. So I have at least one client
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: in particular, their company they work for, for the last
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: several months has been going through waves of layoffs. And
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: it tends to be the software engineer era, area. I
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: don't know what all the titles are, but you know.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: I would venture even to say it's most of the
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: people that since COVID have have been able to easily
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: work from home.
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: Oh, that's definitely a high target.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: People who work from home, I think, are much more
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: vulnerable to this right now because that's the people that
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: the companies are targeting. And there's been a reduction in force. Departments,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: even if they can still keep some of their humans,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: they're releasing all the junior humans because the AI can
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: do that right now. And then what the writer is
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: saying is like, okay, yeah, but eventually, if it keeps
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: going on this upward path, Does my industry almost collapse?
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: And there's something to be said for that. Like we're
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: seeing real human concern with this. And, you know, one
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: of the things that I don't mean to interrupt you, Whitney,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: but like one of the things that I'm really scared about,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: like thinking about this in a macro way is the
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: direct corresponding increase with suicide that we see with unemployment.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Like there is a one to one ratio on this.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: If the unemployment lasts for longer than six months. And
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: like every one of these AI companies has been like
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: screaming as loud as they can, like trying to do
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: this warning sign of like, this is coming.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: We know what we're building and we know why we
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: are building it. It is going to, and it's like
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of technologies do, as Jacob said, like decrease
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: the headcount, but this one can happen fast. And I
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: think it's the speed that can the general economy absorb this?
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Because it used to be like, okay, I'm going to
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: be the last generation of Pony Express and I'm not
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: going to teach my kids to be Pony Express like
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: me and their granddad were. I'm going to start nudging
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: them toward a different industry. But like you probably aren't
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: going to be put on a job immediately because it
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: takes a long goddamn time to build roads and like
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: all the other things that the cars need to make
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: the Pony Express completely pointless. So you know your last generation.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: You can see a 20-year curve. But like the way
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: that AI is iterating right now.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: Some of these people graduated.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: The Pony Express, by the way, operated for a grand
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: total of about 18 months.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: The best 18 months in American history. That's right.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Was that longer than the Confederacy?
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: Thank you for the fact, Jim. I believe it was
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: less time than the Confederacy. I believe the Pony Express
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: gets the rare. The Confederacy lasted longer than the Pony Express.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Well, that's why it's a heritage and a tradition. But
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I believe you completely about the suicide correlation. I mean,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: we have spent the last few generations, at least in
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: this country... Making people or telling people that their purpose
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: is tied to their occupation.
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: And so if you take away someone's purpose.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Then, I mean, it stands to reason in my mind
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: that that would have certainly affected suicide numbers. So, Whitney,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: you're seeing this. You're seeing people now being disrupted by it.
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: Yes, or exactly what the writer is saying in the
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: beginning where they're saying, hey, I'm just terrified every day
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: I wake up. I'm worried about this. Sadly, one of
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: the things you mentioned you've tried already is my go-to
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: and worked really well for a few of my clients,
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: and that's where I just tell them, like, remind yourself.
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: I have a job still.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: I woke up this morning, I clocked into work, and
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: I did not have an email that said, you're fired.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: This is fine right now. You just have to look
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: at the facts and be very present, which is very
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: challenging when you're going through high anxiety. when it's based
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: on your livelihood. I appreciate that the writer says I'm
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: in this just for the money. Um, because yeah, I
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: think a lot of software engineers make really good money. Um,
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: what I was going to say earlier was a lot
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: of these people, um, I've worked with people with younger
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: adults who were in college studying this and they were
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: worried then, you know, like some years ago, just about well,
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: what does this mean? I mean, this is what I
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: want to do, so I'm going to go to school
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: for it, but will I even be able to get
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: a job because it's already lesser demand than when I
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: started this? And I feel like when we were going
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: to college in the mid-2000s, that was cutting edge. It
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: was like, if you study computer science, it was like,
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: that is the future. Yes, and that's what I think
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: Jim's saying, where he's saying this is shortening that span of, oh,
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: at least maybe those people could have had a career
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: and maybe their kids, if they choose to have them,
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: they will be nudged in a different direction, but it's
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: happening so quick that you went to college for that.
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: You're what, 40 years old. And now you're worried you
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: won't have your career that you thought was going to
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: last you.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: And it's, you're, you're absolutely right with the speed that
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: this has happened because like you think about the nineties,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Bill Gates and all these people that like innovated the
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: beginning of the tech sector, they were really the oddballs.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: They were the nerds, right?
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: And like, that was a different, like, Oh, those, those
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: computer geeks that were playing in the AV club or whatever.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: And then the money came pouring in for those industries.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: And so there was this rapid marketization of build the
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: industry to go with this. And every one of them
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: is a crown prince. It's the new oil. You're making
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: all this money.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: SJ and I lived in Silicon Valley when Apple released
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: the first iPod. Or AirPod. What were the.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: iPods.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: iPods, that's it. The music thing. When they released the
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: first iPods. So it was in the valley within a
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: 10-minute drive of our house. There was Apple. There was eBay, Yahoo.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: They were all right there. And we were working for
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: a company that was a children's theater company. And during
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: the summer times, they would have theater classes. And the
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: median price of automobile that would drop these kids off
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: at these theater classes– It was fascinating to watch what
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: happens to a society when everyone is rich.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: They didn't, like, the kids didn't give a shit about
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: what each other was wearing because some kids were wearing, like,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: you know, slouchy, shitty looking stuff, but they're wearing it
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: like ironically, you know, like they're dressed, they're just terribly,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: but nobody's making fun of them because like it's, that's,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: that's their thing. And you saw the income curve jump.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: In like the few years that you were there, it
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: was like, Whoa, the cheapest cars that were dropping kids
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: off for Porsches. Right.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Those, those were the low end. Yeah.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It was insane.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: We watched. The houses that we would see. Oh, yeah.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: The tours that we would go on of people's homes
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: during housewarming parties when we lived there.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: A parade of homes, some would say.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: There were a couple. Yeah. They were amazing. I'll bet.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Mainly the bedrooms. There was one house. It was owned
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: by this couple that we knew. It was designed after
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: a castle. Oh, wow. The whole thing could open up.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: It could go open air. The roof could open up.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: And it was all... So you'd walk in through the
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: front door, and it was like you're walking to the
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: front gate of a castle. You're still outside. Right. But
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: that's the outer wall. Oh, wow. And from the road,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: it just looked like a normal, very nice, large house.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: But you walked into it and realized the roof is open,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: and most of the walls can turn and suck in
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: and everything.
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: And it's like an automated.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: And this is one of the guys that like that
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: list of names when you open up Adobe. Uh-huh. He's
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: one of those.
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: Mr.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Adobe?
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's on that list. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: John Adobe.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: You're doing fine, sir. You're doing just fine.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: What's interesting is like the AI people now, the people
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: that own stock in OPI and Anthropic, they are going
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: to dwarf the tech guys.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Whitney's point was, you know, that we watched
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: as that sector ballooned and it became this extremely expensive labor.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: And so it's kind of not a surprise that like,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: and as the writer said, like, look, a lot of
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: my software writing, the value proposition I have as a
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: maker of software is that oftentimes this software fixes a
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: problem in an industry and reduces that industry's headcount, right?
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Like that's what Excel did and these other things.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: But I'm wondering if there is a silver lining in here.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Okay. In which.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: Like, AI, and by the way, Ryder, I don't mean
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: to correct you, but it's superior intelligence.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Super, actually, but go on. Don't worry, by the way,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: I'm currently asking chat GPT. is the software writing career
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: worse off because of AI and how so? Oh, okay, good.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: So ChatGPT is going to sum this up for us
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: as well. Nah, baby. Don't you worry about it. I
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: don't like you asking these hard questions. I love you, baby. Yeah. Absolutely.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Just relax and let Jesus rub your feet.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: No, I think... No, but what I'm wondering is I'm
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: wondering if there isn't some sort of silver lining here
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: in that AI, yes, it could potentially... really significantly impact
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: software engineers as well as everyone else. And I think
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: maybe that's the thing is like, if it becomes a
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: big problem across the board for everybody, then it forces
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: society to have to deal with it.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: As opposed to if.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: It was- High unemployment does not look great.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: As opposed to like, if it only affected software engineers
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: and software engineers only, then yes, that is a travesty However,
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: it's not big enough to motivate all of society to
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: do anything about it. But if it affects all of us,
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: then we kind of have to do something. Then we
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: have to attack Skynet.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: It seems like that's going to be part of the course.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: But for the individual going through this right now, I
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: think about this a lot for my kid. My kid
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: is a junior in high school. He's a STEM kind
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: of kid. And I literally enrolled him in this program
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: at UNLV where he goes week after week to the
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: engineering college. And he meets like professionals who've graduated from
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: school in different STEM careers, chemistry, biomed, a lot of
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: different engineering roles. And they just talk to the kids
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: about their careers and like give them advice on how
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: to get into it and stuff like that. And like,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I think about this all the time because he's going
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: to go to college soon. And I really want to like.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: try to give him good advice about what areas he
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: should specialize in.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Here's what he needs to do.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Plumbing.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: No, I was going to say welding.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Honestly, a trade. I was going to teach him how
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: to weld. If I wish I knew how to weld.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Bring him over here. I've got a welder in the shop.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: We'll do a fucking welding class. Jacob, let's all learn
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: how to weld. Let's do it. Also, can you teach
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: me to drive stick?
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: There's only one pair of glasses, though.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you're just doing lessons, I have a
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: few things I'd like to learn. If you have a
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: standard transmission automobile, I could teach you to drive stick
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: as well. Okay, so that's what that means. Yeah.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: So I can't just use my Subaru. I can't put
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: it in stick mode. What do you think the stick is?
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: The thingy. It's going to.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: Be a long lesson.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I hope that helped, listeners. No, but I'm worried
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: about my kid all the time. What should I be
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: encouraging him to study?
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: And so this- The Bible, if you care about it.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: The writer is in the exact group of people that
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: I think is in a unique role where They graduated
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: within five years. They've gotten a foothold into their industry,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: but they're still considered a junior. Like they're in that
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: bottom 25% of earning their way. That is going to
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: be targeted as like the first groups that can be
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: eliminated or reduced in force. And so like, I do
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: think that there's, I don't think it's an anxiety thing
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: to be mindful of the changes in the economy and
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: asking yourself what adjacent skill sets might I want to
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: also start learning in anticipation of what's happening in my market, right?
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: That's not crazy. I'm sure that there are many software
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: engineers who are like, I should be aware of how
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: AI works these days and be good at using it.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: You're building a skill right now, Ryder, which is probably smart.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: And I think expanding those skills into other areas, that
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: is probably wise too. Or exploring niche markets that an
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: AI can't necessarily replace a software engineer in, but they're
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: needed or whatever. I really do think that it's wise
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: to be mindful of these market changes. I don't think,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: like you said, Whitney, I don't think you should wake
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: up every single day and wonder, is today the day? Like,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: am I going to hear the gunshot that kills me?
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: But I do think it's also silly to put your
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: head under the ground and just be like, man, I'm
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: sure it's all overblown. Like, there's a lot of hype
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: to fucking be sure. And it's way overstated. They're trying
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: to inflate their stock market prices before they go public
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: and get paid. So a lot of this is bullshit.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: But Yeah, it does seem like it's the new railroad.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I think it's going to change some shit.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: What ChatGPT says about it is that it believes.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: I.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Asked ChatGPT to do a five-year forecast.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Because, Ryder, I think 10 years is... I think that
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: might be... Too far in the future? No, I think
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: that saying that it's going to be changed in 10
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: years is really wearing some rose-colored glasses there.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: I would say like five years would be more.
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: That's being idealistic.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. Yeah. But yeah, this says that it
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: thinks that overall software developer employment would be up about
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: 5% from where it is now.
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: But a different type, but like certain types of software
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: developers would be way down.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: That makes sense. And also, if you look at like
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: the history... And basically saying like junior programmers, coding positions,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: things like... Like coders, this is saying like 20% to
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: 40% loss, right? In five years.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: Which makes sense. Like kind of the manual labor.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: That's it. Yeah. Because you don't need, yeah, like typists,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: you know. Because that's already something that already gets shipped
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: out overseas often. Right. That goes to places like India,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: all through Asia. Right. Like a lot of my friends
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: that do a lot of that, they do all of
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: their coding. Right.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Through, you know, basically shops over there. Call centers is
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: another one that like is very much offshore. And like, yep,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: turns out AI can do that pretty effectively. Oh, you
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: can replace a call center with a laptop.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Right. Exactly.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: So like there's going to be this huge displacement.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: I think that is inevitable.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: But like, yeah, I feel like and if the writer's
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: already saying like, look, I'm seeing this happen. And Whitney,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: you pointed out, I've seen this too. There are reductions
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: in force, even in companies that don't have a reason
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: to do it.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: They just want to try it. It's good for their
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: bottom line and they're using AI as their excuse to
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: do it.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, we're seeing that. I think that this
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: is going to be a time where, yeah, you are
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: in the industry. Like lawyers are also really concerned. Because
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: a lot of us, if you needed regular legal work,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: not huge big lawsuit work, but some basic legal work,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: you can now just get that done.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: If you need to file a patent or something. Yeah,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: it'll just walk you through it.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: Great and easy will.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Will and testament.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just a lot of the regular maintenance work, drawing
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: up a contract between you and somebody else.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: And they do it on things, like if you combine,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: because the whole thing with LegalZoom was always, you didn't
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: want to just use LegalZoom, because then you're not getting
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: the advice. But combining AI with LegalZoom was... All of
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: a sudden, now we're having a different conversation. I still
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: don't know if it's a good idea, but it's different.
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: I would say maybe some advice to try. I've watched
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: other people do this before AI was an issue where
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: friends I worked with, they would just apply for jobs
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: throughout the year just to apply. One, to keep your
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: skills sharp. Two, to keep your resume up to date
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: because you're updating it as you send those out. But
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: And then three, just to see if there is a
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: better job opportunity out there, whether that's pay or hours
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: or work from home or not. And it was weird
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: because I hadn't thought about it at the time, you know,
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: working at a company. I was like, oh, yeah, I
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: just was like chugging along doing my thing. But I
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: was like, that's actually a really good idea. So, writer,
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: I would maybe encourage you, especially while you don't need it,
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: put some feelers out, go apply, apply for these jobs
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: with the skills that you have, see what, what happens. Like,
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: and it doesn't mean you even take a job if
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: it's offered to you. It's just to see, like, what
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: are my options? What could I do?
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Get an idea of the lay of the land.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a little bit. And that might help give you
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: some answers.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: At the very least, it'll tell you, like, if people
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: are hiring for your position, that tells you that people
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: are still valuing your position.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: Or, like, other jobs that you may not even think, oh,
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: I don't know if I really meet the, like, all
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: the standards for this job per se. Like, maybe it's
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: asking for something slightly different. Apply anyway and just see,
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: because I think that builds our confidence in, like, We
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: don't have to check every box on these job applications.
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: Maybe they didn't put they're looking for a software engineer,
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: but your skill set could apply to this other random
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: ass job. Just apply for it and see. I don't know.
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: It kind of builds that confidence that you don't have
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: to be nudged into like one pathway. There's more out there.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Diversifying your skills right now is a good call. I
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: think also exploring the market. But yeah, I do think
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: that there's a silliness to saying, oh, I'm not going
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: to let this bother me at all. And I'll just
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: hope for the best. That's probably not super duper wise
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: because by the time your group gets laid off, you
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: may be the 10th table dismissed and now everybody's looking
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: for a seat, right? And so like the supply and
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: demand thing, there's a glut of supply now and so
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: demand spare, you know, and like now it's hard to find.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I agree with you, Whitney, like starting to
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: get more comfortable knowing your market, knowing what jobs are
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: out there, knowing what the interviews are like, looking at what,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: you know, adjacent industries you might want to start. I
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: think it's time to start doing some career coaching, honestly.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I feel like if you're in one of those careers
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: that the writing's on the wall, and look, you can
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: see it for yourself. You're not saying, oh, I'm reading
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: these hyperbolic headlines in the news. You're like, nope, my
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: company literally 10x' d everything that we do, and we are
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: pretty damn redundant right now. I know how math works.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: I'm like, great.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: That means it's time to start doing some career coaching,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I think, and looking into the next thing.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: If I had to start over again, I think it'd
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: be either welding or crane operator.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, crane operator makes you better than everybody. Yeah. That's
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: just the way. Especially if you do like the fucking giant. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: The ones that are. It's basically just a video game. Right.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: A life or death video game.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: It's Tetris. Yeah. But people could die.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: Air traffic controller.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Tetris that matters.
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: That's all.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: That's what I want to do. High stakes Tetris. When
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I was playing my Game Boy as a kid, I
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: was like, what if people died?
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I believe the cranes up on top of
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: the new Hard Rock Tower that they've been building where
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: the Mirage used to be. I believe those are the
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: type that have to be manned all the time.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: They're required to have an operator in them at all times.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Even when they're not doing it.
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: In case of emergency.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Like in case they have to be moved.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: And those are union jobs, buddy. You're getting paid. Oh, yeah, yeah. No,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: you're getting an eight. You're climbing up there and making
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: your eight and making whatever the rate is. Yeah. Yeah.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah, those crane ops. That seems like a good gig.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: You become a crane operator. I bet there's some competition.
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: They're out there looking for it.
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: There will be.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. I just Googled.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: The median annual salary.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: For just crane operator. You didn't specify levels.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: Guess.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go median. I'm going to take 150.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was going to guess two. Before you said, oh,
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: my God.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I bet it's up there.
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: I'm just being honest.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I can't believe it.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: Like a union.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: I bet it's three. I bet it's 300.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: $ 64, 000. Okay.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: We're all way over.
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: Wow. We suck at this.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: But that's before the corruption, Nick. You've got to factor
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: that in.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: And what state is that?
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Where's the time and a half?
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: Well, geography, annual, like New York is the highest, $ 118, 000. Okay.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: But a crane operator, the real money comes in whenever
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: you check in with the nearby businesses and you say
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: things like, it would be a real shame if an
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: accident were to happen.
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: And if this anvil or piano I'm lifting would fall.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Sure is a nice roof you got there. I would
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: hate to see something bad happen to me.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: I also just used the AI overview, and AI has
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: been listening to us, so it could just be.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Fucking with me.
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: It definitely is.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Don't worry about anything, baby. Just keep doing your little
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: silly podcast and calm all the humans down. There's no
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: reason to be concerned.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Anyway, good luck with that, Ryder. I hope that you survive.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break, and when we
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: come back, we're talking about metacognitive therapy after dark. Gesundheit.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: You're listening to Pod Therapy.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: Today's episode is brought to you by Smitty Scoop, Mason Miller,
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: Tess Miller, Byler T, Paris, T Monaco, Oscar Swanrose, Hannah Marie,
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: Emma Kane, Myra, and Sam Cohn. Would you like to
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: sponsor the show? Become a therapy producer at patreon.com slash therapy.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: All right, continuing on with our record-breaking trivia. jim we're
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: gonna start with you okay uh budimir sobat yeah of
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: croatia uh set the world record for the longest time
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: holding one's breath underwater in 2021 oh my god approximately
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: how long did he hold his breath.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Oh my god uh i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: hip shoot.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: This one okay uh It's a very specific answer. Are
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: you sure you want to do that?
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Will you give me a rounding for being brave? Will
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: you round?
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: I'll give you plus minus five seconds. All right.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Okay. I think I'm going to take options. Take options.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. Got it. A, 24 minutes, 37 seconds.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, I'm fucking... I was going to guess 22.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: I was going to say 11 minutes.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, I was going to guess 22, so I feel
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: good about whatever these options are.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: 17 minutes, 4 seconds. Oh, wow. 20 minutes, 21 seconds.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: 28 minutes... 10.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: Seconds.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, dude.
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: Like shot in the dark.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: How can a man be alive? Give me the first one,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: the 20-something.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, 24 minutes, 37 seconds. The average person loses consciousness
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: at roughly two minutes.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: That's why it's confusing.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: I would say let's go ahead and have a game
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: right now where we see who can go the longest,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: but it's the worst idea ever for radio.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: Or the best.
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: Just silence. Fast forward through the next 30 seconds because
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: that's how long we're.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: Going to last.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: To figure out what the fuck's going on.
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: No, I only remember part of that because do you
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: all remember Wim Hof? This guy, he basically would do
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: these breathing exercises to allow him to swim in freezing
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: cold water.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, that guy. Yeah.
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: I think there was a Netflix.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: Wasn't Peter doing something?
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: That's the only reason I know this bullshit. I was like,
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: it's like 22 because he would go swim around in
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: the pool and do these weird breathing things. I'm like, stop.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: Because it's like.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: This is how Peter was planning his escape. He's going
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: to escape through the Arctic. She'll never catch me. Yes, yes.
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: He's like, you can hold your breath. And then he'd
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: be like, time me. And then he'd go underwater. It
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: was like, I don't need children because he's... Great.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: I'm signing you. Winnie, watch me do this.
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: Watch.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: I can get all the quarters at the bottom of
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: the pool. I'm going to do this cool backflip. Check
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: this out. Check this out. Okay, now throw it really
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: far this time. A friend of mine is a now
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: forced retired acrobat. She had an injury, and so she
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: can't be an acrobat anymore. And one of the new
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: things that she is doing is free diving.
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: Ooh, that weirds me out.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: With like the single tail fin. Yeah, the fin.
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: Oh, single tail fin.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the single fin.
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Which is like a deeper, it's a super wide thing
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: and it's made to go deeper, I guess.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: Like down quicker. Yeah.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: But she does like on a line with a weight.
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: That pulls her down. Ooh, boy.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: That is terrifying.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: And then she can swim back up. But yeah, she's
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: under four pounds. Many minutes. Yeah. Oh, my God. I mean,
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: she's a world-class acrobat.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: That's her starting point.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: There's an athleticism in your body.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: It's great.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: I think she's up to like seven and a half
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: minutes or something like that already.
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: I was going to go six.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: Damn.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: That is a lot. Wow, dude. It's crazy. All right, Whitney.
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: Foyza Singh.
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: Got it.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: A British sick runner.
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: S-I-K-H.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Seek.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: You don't know that word?
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: Runner.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: No, but I've never heard of it as a runner. Okay. Okay.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: I'll give you that.
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: I've heard controversy on how to say this not long ago.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: So I say seek, but then I've been corrected at
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: one point.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: Runner, born in 1911. Oh, I think he's just seek.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: He's just- And he happens.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: To be a runner who is seek. Okay. Runners can
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: be different religions now. I was thinking this was a
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: style of running.
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Dude you run so seek that's it has anybody ever
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: told you you run like a seekman.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: Okay all right this is making sense to me now
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: all right good became the oldest person to compete in
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: uh to complete a marathon when he finished in 2011
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: toronto waterfront marathon how old was.
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: He I'm sorry, you said he became the oldest runner
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: to finish a marathon. I'm going to go with options.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: I bet he didn't fucking win, did he? I'll bet
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: he did not.
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: He's a finisher.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: 95, 97, 100, 103. Good Lord, all those are incredible.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: 95, 97, 100, 103. 95.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: Buzz.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: I know, I would go with the younger one. Jacob. Oh,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: it's got to be the higher one. 103 was the
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: top one?
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got to be that. No.
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: They're throwing you off with that one.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: My options are 97 and what?
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: 100. 100.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: 100's too on the nose.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: Give me 97. Points for Nick.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: God damn it.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: 100 years old. He took a running at 89 after
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: the deaths of his wife and son because grief required movement.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: His finish time was approximately 8 hours and 11 minutes.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: It's not good. This is not a good time.
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: Why do you just do that?
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: It's not winning any races like that.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: The math I was doing, I figured that somebody would
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: have been like, I'm going to be the first 100-year-old
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: to do a marathon. Somebody did say that. Yeah, it
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: was this guy.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Yes, this guy.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: I figured somebody before 2011 would have said that.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Okay, Jacob, the Guinness World Record for the most times
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: married in a lifetime. Oh, Christ.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Shut the fuck up. Don't say it, don't say.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: It, don't say it.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: It's still in contention. Belongs to Glenn DeMoss. Has not
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: been settled just yet. Belongs to Glenn DeMoss Wolfe. For now.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: How many times was he married?
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: Your options are.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: It didn't say how many times.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: 19, 23, 29, or 35. Imagine being the.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: 35th wife. And he's like, baby, this time is different.
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: You're changing me. You did it.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: You did it.
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: That's the thing.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: They want to change you and fix you. All 34
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: of those, they were crazy. They were crazy. But you
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: are not like them. Let me ask you a question, Jeb.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Do you think that this man was financially... Well off?
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: I think he had to be.
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: In this scenario, you're either very wealthy. When he started,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: he was.
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: At a point in time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: He's either very wealthy or ironically very poor because that'll
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: also go that way.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, he could be dirt poor with a huge penis. Yeah, well,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: of course he's got a dick. Like, I mean, he's swinging.
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: Like, there's no way.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: I'll go with C. I'll go not quite into the 30s.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: I think C was like 29.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, 29. Great.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Way to go.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: Across his lifetime, his shortest lasted 19 days. He was
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: still actively seeking a wife in his 80s. He died
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: in 1997. His last wife outlived him.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: She's the winner. You're lying.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: I am lying.
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: I was like, you're lying.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know that.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, it doesn't mean I'm wrong.
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: No. But I don't know.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Also, I'm going to call bullshit on the whole thing.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that this guy has the record, because
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: I think that we are not counting the weird Mormon
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: fundamentalists with child brides.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Great, let's keep on counting those. Because if you count
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: all the ones married simultaneously, it ain't this guy. I
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: don't think we should count the sexual exploitation of children. Okay,
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: all right, fine. Let's take that one off the table.
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: Great.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: But just polygamy, that can still count. I didn't have
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: it on the table. All right, we're on the same page.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Why are we yelling at each other?
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: I personally know someone with 20 wives.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: More than 20 wives. See, that's what I'm saying. 29
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: doesn't seem... He can beat that this year.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: Almost would have added another one. The way he was
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: talking to Laura.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: He said, hey, baby. This is a true story. He
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: was putting the moves on her. How are you doing,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: lucky number 21? Let me ask you a quick question.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Is this guy still invited to the housewarming party?
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, of course.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: He is not.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: He is the father of a friend.
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: Oh, yes.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: And so my friend was getting- Can I invite him
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: as my plus one? As a plus one? So my
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: friend was getting married.
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: He grew up in a- Oh, this is the massive
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: house you talked about.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he grew up in a fundamentalist Mormon household. He's
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: no longer- part of the group, but for his wedding reception,
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: he just used his dad's house. And this is one
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: of his dad's houses in Vegas on a private golf course,
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: gated community down the street from Mike Tyson. Oh yeah.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: Very huge house. So he happened to be there. I'm still,
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: I'm standing there out in the, by the pool area.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: It's Laura, myself, and then my buddy Jack, who I
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: golf with. So the three of us are standing there.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: We see his dad. And so Jack goes up and
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: starts talking to him. Hey, you know, we, we golf
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: with so-and-so and we're friends and all that introduces and
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: He's shaking everybody's hand, talks to Laura.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Great, whatever.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: And then he just slowly moves.
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: Lingers.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: No, he just moves until he is now standing between
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: me and Laura.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: What a boss. He knows what he's doing.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: I'm looking over his shoulder to see my fiance.
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Wow, yeah.
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: This isn't his first rodeo.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: You don't get 20 wives by accident.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Again, going back to this, how the fuck are you
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: the 28th wife or the 29th wife? Because he's that
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: fucking charming.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And she's like, I don't give a shit.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: I was like, Laura, we need to go.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Let me tell you about Miss 29. You can fix me, baby.
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: She outlived him.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: You're the one. No problemo. The other 28 were warming
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: up for you. I just. So Jacob's in the lead.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: You know, Nick's been married a couple of times. What's
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: stopping you?
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: You know? Amateurs, get out there.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: Get some numbers.
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: I want multiple husbands.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Rookie numbers. All right.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: That's, I think, the only way it would work, honestly.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Tie game?
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: Do we all have one?
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: I feel like we all have one.
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: Whatever.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Except for Nick, who has five.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: That feels right.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Metacognitive therapy. Hello to the gang and Jim. I'm a
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: longtime lurker on Patreon. You guys have become a consistent
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: part of my routine almost every day. Sometimes when I
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: think about the fact that I find comfort in listening
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: to three adults bullying a fourth about his choice of footwear,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I start thinking I might need more therapy than I think.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: But nonetheless, I'm grateful for everything you bring the community
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: and to me every week.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Who did we bully about their footwear? Jim and his Skechers. Yeah.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: My sexy ass Skechers. There was controversy. Deserved. Deserved it.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Sweatpants of footwear.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: I am happy.
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: Now just feet.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Just happy.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: I'll bet they had Velcro on them too, didn't they?
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: I wanted the Velcro ones. Stop. I wanted that so bad.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: Did you ever have ruse when you were a kid?
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah, dude.
• 45:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: Why didn't you get the Velcro?
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: I felt like it was a bridge too far. You're
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: already getting the fucking Skechers.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: No, come on, man. There's a wide country of Skechers, okay?
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: You could be anywhere in that country. You don't have
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: to go to the Velcro side.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: It's the S. I mean.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: You're already just walking into an unfuckable area. Would you
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: consider Joe Montana unfuckable?
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: Huh?
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: You think Joe Montana is not getting laid tonight in
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: his Skechers? I think you got to be Joe Montana first.
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: Then wear the Skechers.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: I think you got to start with Joe Montana and
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: then go to Skechers.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I like to lead with letting girls know that
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Joe Montana and I have a lot in common.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: You need Velcro shoes to go with your Velcro wallet.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: Oh, my God.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: I use the Velcro wallets that everybody in the room
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: knows I'm a baller, okay? Because it's also got the chain,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: you know? So I have to do this whole process
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: to get it out. There's a lot of noise involved.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: So anyway, where's this person's question?
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, to the question.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: This year, I went back into therapy to manage recurring
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: depression and anxiety. My previous experiences with therapy were all
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: based on CBT, which is as close to the standardized
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: treatment option as possible in Europe, as far as I understand.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: This time, however, I was introduced to the modality of
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: metacognitive therapy instead.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Somebody start furiously Googling.
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: That because I don't know what it is.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: On it.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: This form of therapy has been very effective for me
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: in the short term, at least. Previously, I felt like
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: CBT demanded a lot from me as a patient in
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: terms of navigating and reprogramming my thoughts, like taking the
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: thought to court, etc. Given that I already ruminate and
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: overthink quite a lot, this meant overanalyzing and ending up
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: worse than when I began. MCT instead offered me an
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: alternative route through opening the door to actually thinking and
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: ruminating less as a whole. It gave me tools that
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: are simple and easy to use and doesn't feel like
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: homework or exercise. I would be interested in hearing your
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: thoughts and experiences with this modality. I'll leave it to
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: you to explain more for the listener what MCT actually is,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: since I'm not sure I would do a good job myself.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: It's going to sound a lot like Google. Thank you
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: for all you do. All the best. Signed, Linus Hakkasan.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: It's pronounced Linus Hakkasan. But good luck. P.S. Jacob, what's
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: your opinion on miking singers for theater and musicals in
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: regards to positioning the mic in their hairline or on
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: their cheek? I noticed that in Hamilton.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: I saw the little doodad sticking out of Alexander Hamilton's
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: hair and I was like, what the fuck is that?
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: I did not know that. For that type of microphone,
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: for that type of setup, if you can get it
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: on the hairline, it's great. Is it really? Acoustically on
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: your face, that spot up there is really good. It
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: picks up a whole lot. But depending on like A
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: lot of factors go into it because if you are,
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: for instance, at a thrust stage, so maybe the stage
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: is in front of the main speakers, you might not
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: be able to do that with gain structures and everything else.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah, if you can put it up on the hairline,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: if you have the right microphones for it, the right
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: setup for it. I like it up there, but I'm
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: an old Broadway guy, so that's where I put microphones.
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: I heard I'm an old broad.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: I'm an old broad. I'm an old Broadway guy.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Is it preferred because your face would move more? Like
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: if it's on your face line, so you move your
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: mouth so much that maybe the thing is having to
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: bounce back and forth, and if it's on your forehead,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: it just doesn't really move?
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: Nope.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: Nope.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: It's all about acoustics. Projection? A microphone on your cheek.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: You're getting more direct vibration into the diaphragm of the microphone, Okay.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Whereas you have a more stable area. Or not stable,
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: but you're a little farther away from everything. And so
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: you're getting the wider acoustic picture.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: Okay. How far away are we from surgically implanted microphones? Oh,
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: we could do it today.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: And I think we should. Okay. Well, you have a
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: welder in your garage.
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: I just want to be able to stick my finger
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: into a mic socket and just talk right into it. Hello,
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: ladies and gentlemen.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: Go catch it, microphone.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Just have like an XLR on the end of my finger.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, why the finger, though?
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, if we're this close. Butthole. Look, no hands.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: I'll put a female XLR into my butthole.
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: Plug in, sir. Why are you sitting on the mic stand?
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: Don't worry. It's stereo. So, Nick, what the fuck is MCT?
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: All right. Well, metacognitive therapy is a form of psychotherapy
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: that focuses less on what you think and more on
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: how you relate to and manage your thinking.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Meta. Got it.
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: How to relate to your thoughts.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: So, okay, I think I can unpack that a little bit.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Thinking about your thoughts.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is fair, right? Because a lot of cognitive
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: behavioral therapy... It's kind of what therapy is.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Right. Go ahead, Nick.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: Proposes that psychological distress is often maintained not simply by
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: negative thoughts, but by a person's response to those thoughts. Okay.
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: Which still feels CBT-ish.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can appreciate where they're coming from, though, that CBT...
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: often is trying to get you to grab the thought
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: you're thinking and go through this rationalizing process that allows
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: you to disconnect all the scaries from it and right-size it.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: And that can be daunting because it's thought by thought
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: by thought. And the hope, I think, with CBT is
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: that if we do that enough, your style of thinking
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: will ultimately change. And you won't have to go through
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: these 10 deconstructive steps every single time that you're having
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: a new scary thought that over time your brain kind
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: of jumps ahead to the conclusion and starts doubting these
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: things and responding less in a big way. So maybe
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: what metacognitive therapy is doing is trying to get to
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: that outcome without necessarily going through the ladder system of
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: like working through the dominoes of what's happening with CBT.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: So it gives an example.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: What is the difference between this and traditional CBT? Okay.
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: So traditional CBT might ask a question like, Is the thought,
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: I'm going to fail, accurate? What evidence supports or contradicts it?
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Right. CBT.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: MCT might ask, why are you spending so much time
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: thinking about whether you're going to fail? And what do
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: you believe this thinking is accomplishing? Okay.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: That's interesting because I see that entire line of questioning
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: as one of the strategies of CBT. Yeah.
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: Like changing your narrative. Yeah.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: Like taking the thought to court is one of the things.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Like I usually teach people a five-pillared response in CBT.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: One of them is how to take the thought to court.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Other ones go exactly with what that MCT thing just said,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: which is to ask yourself, What am I gaining by
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: even doing this activity right now? Like, what is the
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: likely use of this time? What am I going to
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: get from all this worry? And just kind of like
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: zooming out, like not even dissecting the thought itself, but
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: dissecting the experience of this worry.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: That's part of it.
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: I see another example talking about worry.
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: It says.
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: like including positive beliefs. Worrying helps me prepare versus negative.
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: My worries are uncontrollable and dangerous. Okay.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: So reframing the worry itself is a useful piece of
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: who you are.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: Not something to be avoided, but to be used. Hey,
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: if it worked for the writer, you know, I love that.
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: I like it. Yeah. I like the vibe.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: The criticism that CBT often gets, and look, on this show,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: I think we've all pretty much said, hey, look, we
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: use CBT.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: It's one of the toolkits.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: We're fine with it. We consider it an evidence-based practice.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: But I do agree that it has been used to
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: bludgeon the profession in many ways and stifle creativity and expression.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of that, at least in
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: the Western United States, or in the United States, maybe
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: also in Europe, has to do with the insurance industrial complex,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: that they want commoditized units of things that they can do.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: They pay the surgeon to remove a thing, and they
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: have a way to code that, to be like, this
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: is how much that should cost. And they want to
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: do that with mental health. So they create this qualitative
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: or quantitative measurement of deploying units of CBT that they
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: believe they can measure and say, we ought to see
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: change in eight weeks. There's a curriculum that goes to this.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: It's brief, it's short, and it's meant to do these things.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: And I think that that exaggerates what it can do.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: And it forces everybody to fit in that thing, right?
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Like all the square pegs have to fit in the
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: round hole now.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: And it's really stifling.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of like professionals find it
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: to be almost like a corrected version of gaslighting you
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: know because sometimes people be like well i'm scared that
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: uh you know this bad thing's gonna happen and it's
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: like no don't be scared of that bad thing let's
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: apply reason and you're like talking them out of some
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: core beliefs that sometimes isn't correct to do and and
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: there's there's an argument for that right but i don't
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: know i feel like that's an abusive cbt whenever you're
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: like attacking somebody's religious views or like their deeply held
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: beliefs about you know relationships or things like that like
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: That's an oversimplification of CPT.
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: This MCT sounds kind of cool.
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: I know. I'll have to look into it more.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: It does also seem to have a little bit of
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: mindfulness-based approaches kind of built into it from what I'm
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: reading here.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: It sounded a little bit like motivational interviewing to like,
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: what does this thought do for you?
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Well, I think instead of just taking the thought to court,
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: you're thinking about your thinking, which is great. And that's
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: what metacognitive should mean here.
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: Sounds like a good tool.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: What do you notice about your patterns of thought? Before
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: we even get into qualifying your fear and taking it
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: through the car wash of what's right and wrong about
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: it and right-sizing it, let's just get you to a
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: place where you notice your own thinking styles and what
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: your tendencies are, which actually goes back to some solution-focused
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: brief therapy tools as well. Like predicting the problem. Like
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: one of the great SFBT tricks is to ask somebody like, hey,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: you tend to get anxious with work-related things. Tomorrow morning
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: you have a meeting. What do you think is going
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: to happen tomorrow? Why don't you tell me play-by-play when
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: you're going to feel anxiety? And by teaching them to
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: notice and study their own thinking strategies– It almost has
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: this disarming effect, right? Where it's like, oh, well, I
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: saw this coming. I know myself really well. And then
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: ultimately it changes the future, right? Because like they saw this,
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: like they anticipated it and now it doesn't startle them
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: as much because they expected it. So yeah, I think
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: this is a really good toolkit. I think, Ryder, I
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: think what you're noticing live here is that we're all
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: three looking at this and going, sure, I would do this.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: I probably do some version of this.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: I didn't know it had a name. Yeah, that's kind
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: of what I'm getting out of this.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: But that doesn't stop me from offering a certification course
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: in it this weekend. And if you're out there and
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: you're a clinician and you'd like to become a certified
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Yellow Belt MCT provider, and don't go out there trying
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: to do MCT without a certification, guys.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: You're going to get somebody killed. All right? So you
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: need to study under the grates. All right? You've got
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: to get a hold of me. That's right. Jacob the
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Life Coach. That's right.
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: Jacob's Life Coach.
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: With a doctorate.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: I'm your Life Coach, Jacob. I'll teach you how to
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: do it. You've just been Life Coached.
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: Or think about doing it.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: That's right. For recurring payments of $ 999. You can think
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: about why you're not already doing it. And we don't
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: sell certifications anymore. We sell subscriptions to certifications. Oh, my gosh, yes.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: You have to keep an active subscription going. Well, just
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: because you buy the certification doesn't mean that you fully
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: own the certification.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: You don't own the certification, okay? You're leasing the ability
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: to do metacognitive therapy.
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: Subscriptions piss me off.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Through Life Coach Incorporated. Sure. Oh, yeah.
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: Cologne update so you guys remember back Germany most recent
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: yeah my most recent Instagram purchase was knockoff cologne oh
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: that's right oh yeah yeah so it showed up.
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: And I'm glad you reminded us.
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: Actually I think it's I think it's good okay I
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: think it's good barely causes a rash Yeah, didn't realize
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: it was a subscription.
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: So they sent another one?
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: They keep charging you?
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so like a monthly.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: Monthly cologne?
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I just bought three bottles. I don't need
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: a fourth.
• 57:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so happy. Cancel, cancel, cancel, cancel, cancel. Three
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: is a lifetime supply. Oh, my gosh. Oh, I'll tell
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: you one that pissed me off the other day. and
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: I don't even want to say what it was, but
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: I bought a one-month, because they had all these different
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: subscription plan things for this service. So I was like,
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to get a one-month subscription to it,
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: which they had that as an option, just buy a
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: single month. I still had to go in and cancel
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: it before it auto-renewed to the second month.
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: Yes, you literally do the subscription, then the next day
• 58:25
  Speaker 4: just cancel it, or two hours later.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: But I was like, the options you had were, by
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: a single month, go month to month, or by a year.
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: So they had those other options there. Oh, fuck off.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: And the option that I picked was single month.
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: There's no recurring payments.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: And now there's a recurring payment.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: When y'all do this, do you set a reminder in
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: your calendar to cancel it?
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so do I.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: I have so many that pop up and I'm like,
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: oh my God, this is the most important thing to
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: me right now is making sure these assholes do nothing.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: I usually cancel it twice. Like, actually immediately. Oh. Because
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: then you've got the one month loaded in.
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they give you the month that you paid for it.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: You already have it. I think the way they get
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: me is it's rarely a month. Like, it'll be like,
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: it's this service. 90 days. Serious XL. got me this
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: summer because like they were like oh we're offering a
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: deal where you get one dollar a month sirius xm
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: for three months and then you can cancel any time
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: and i was like that is a great idea i'm
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: doing a lot of camping like having satellite radio is
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: a great idea but yeah for that one i had
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: to set because i couldn't pay in advance the extra
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: dollars right they had to hit me each time so Yep.
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: Anyway.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: Subscription. Anyway, Ryder, metacognitive therapy is great and check on
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: all your subscriptions. Yeah.
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: That's just a bonus.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Patreon.com slash therapy. Add a new subscription.
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: Also, those of you who've been trying to cancel, what
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: you don't know is that there's a cancellation fee.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: You get to leave for free. It's a one-year subscription.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: And if you try to leave, it's a two-year subscription.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: It's actually a percentage of what we believe you would
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: have otherwise. There's a whole formula. There's a whole chart. Honestly,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: I don't understand most of it. But you can also
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: get somebody else to sublease your subscription. Oh, sure. It's
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: like a timeshare. And really, you can recruit other people.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: And you can get a portion of their subscription, which
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: we give to you as a commission. And then it
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: pays for itself. It pays for itself. You're losing money
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: by not participating. Why don't we just do a pod
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: therapy pyramid scheme? I think it's time. I think it's obvious.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: We should just do a pod therapy pyramid scheme.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: I think the reason that we haven't is out of
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: respect for ICS.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: But we don't do a pyramid. I know. And you
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: very clearly do an obelisk scheme. Yeah, and if you
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: hadn't taken such a fucking principled position, we wouldn't look
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: like shitheads if we started a pyramid scheme.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: Well, we could do it still.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: I think try it. I think we should and.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: Just see what happens.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: I think just do a pyramid scheme.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: No one in this room is above this idea.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm all for it. I've literally felt restrained
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: over this. I'm part of ICS. I'm part of the obelisk.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to shame you for this. We have
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: a blessing. I feel like that's a blessing, and that's
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: the first piece of the pyramid. I say pyramid the
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: shit out of it. The power of the pyramid is
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: about to get harnessed. So we give everybody their own
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: referral code. And if they refer a friend, then they
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: get a... I really want to do this. I genuinely
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: want to do this.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: There's got to be a way.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the money is going to be.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: Nobody does, Jacob. Nobody knows. With these pyramid schemes, nobody
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: knows the money. That's the best part.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: No, I'm saying I don't know if we should do
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: it with money.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: I think part of it should be at some point
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: the subscribers actually have to record themselves as part of
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: the show and submit their own answers to questions. And
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: then we just slowly retire ourselves.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Like the whole show is like 35 people being like,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: all right, the question I'm answering this week.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: Then we're just audio Reddit.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. This is a great idea. Oh, my God. We
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: finally found the exit plan. I mean, I'm ready to
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: pour myself into an AI. Oh, anyway. Jacob AI says.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Jacob's AI. Have you seen the Jesus one? What? That
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: the Vatican has now?
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: They have one that is the Bible, so it knows
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: everything about the Bible.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, are you asking me a question? Yeah, you could
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: talk to different saints, and allegedly you can talk to Lucifer,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: but that one costs extra. Oh, they would. Yeah, some
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: really good stuff here. Thank you for your letter. Linus Hawkinson.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: Linus Hawkinson.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: Nailed it.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: Linus Hawkinson.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: I think we're pretty close.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: Linus Hawkinson.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break. When we come back,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: we're talking about Do I Have to Leave Town? You're
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: listening to Pop Therapy.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: Today's episode is brought to you by Speedy Scoop, Mason, Miller, Tess, Miller, Tyler, T, Paris,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: Team Monaco, Oscar, Swanrose, Hannah Marie, Emma Kane, Myra, and
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: Sam Cohn. And if you'd like to sponsor the show,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: become a therapist at patreon.com slash therapy. Jim, Honda built
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: a record-breaking lawnmower for a Guinness World Record attempt that
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: still had to retain functional grass-cutting capacity per Guinness rules.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: Approximately how fast did it go?
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: Oh, shit. I want to see this in action.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: And it cut the grass?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: And it has to maintain grass-cutting. Holy fucking shit.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: Give me answers. Okay.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: 87 miles an hour. 100 miles an hour.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: This is like top speed it hits?
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, top speed. 115 miles an hour.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: This is bottom speed. Or like average?
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: Is this like average?
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: This is minimum speed. Sorry, you said it.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: Still has to cut the grass. I'm like, it's not
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: just flying around. They're not cutting. So it's cutting grass.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: It's got to retain full functioning grass cutting capacity.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: 115 miles an hour.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: 131 miles an hour. 150 miles an hour.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: Or 87.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: 87. 87, 115, 131, or 150.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: Go all in. Give me 150.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: It's got to be. Oh, my God.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: Honda's mean mower was built on a modified HF2620 tractor
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: frame with a 1,000 cubic centimeter motorcycle engine.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: Jesus.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: It's still cut grass.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: It's a Bugatti. That's awesome.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: For real.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: The fact that it's still cut grass.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: That is what I just don't believe.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: They probably basically just put a Harley motor into a...
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: into a lawnmower it had to be a real mower
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: how fast are these blades spinning to cut that.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: Grass no that's what i'm saying though like the the
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: you know the difference between a like a a real
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: mower oh like going versus a fake one no shut
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: up i knew you're gonna do that like.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: The way the wheels are the no.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: The cutting device so the reels it spins this way
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: okay and it's got the blade that like wraps in
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: kind of like a double helix around it.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it actually cuts the grass.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: Like a non-motorized push mower that you see.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: Right, exactly.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: And then the other one's like a helicopter blade. Right,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: at the bottom.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So I'm guessing it was probably a real mower.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but I'm going to look this up
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: during the break. All right, Whitney, the longest marriages in
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: record history, a couple who reached 85, 86, even 90
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: years together, have been studied by researchers looking for common factors.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: What does the research most constantly identify as the single
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: strongest predictor of extreme marital longevity?
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: Child bride.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: Obviously the penis. I know.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: Child bride.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: Being part of a cult is easily the answer.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: You brainwashed them.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: All right, options. Shared daily religious practices and actively community belonging.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: That might be it.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: Financial interdependence established early in the relationship. A consistent practice
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: of never going to bed angry reported by both parties
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: or low neuroticism on both sides. Calm, non-reactive, non-anxious personality
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: profiles in both individuals. Okay.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, that last one is pretty strong. Sounds pretty straight.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: What's it going to be, Whitney?
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: The only thing that made me a little torn between...
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: A and D was that you said community involvement in
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: addition to the religious part.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and active community belonging.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: I think that's going to keep people together if it's
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: like frowned upon to marry.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: When Whitney takes A, I'm taking D. Okay.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 4: Give me the D.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, shit.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: It is D, low neuroticism. Couples who reach 80 and
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: 90 year marriages are disproportionately.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 4: Described by themselves.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: I'm upset. I'm concerned. I feel attacked. I'm very concerned.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 4: Jim's neurotic bingo.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: My entire bingo room.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: Jacob, I'm out of questions. So two points for you.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, nailing it. Congratulations.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: Didn't realize that until now that I only have one left. Okay.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: We're doing great. You're welcome, America. Last question for today's show.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: He's working on the pyramid.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: Do I have to leave town? Hi, pod therapist. Again,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: if you're asking. I mean, solid.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: Hi, pod therapist and PD or PhD, PhD life coach.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: Good evening. It's been a long day. I think I
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: need some therapizing.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: In short, I recently got divorced and I have since
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: learned that my now ex had been sharing a very
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: different version of me and our relationship with other people
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: for years. This included some people in our shared social
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: circles and possibly practitioners and teachers I still occasionally see.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: My ex is not currently involved in all of the
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: groups or with all the people I still see. I
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: honestly feel a little shocked by this and don't quite
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: know how to handle it because most of our social
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: world overlapped. I now find myself wondering who has heard
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: what what they believe about me, and whether this might
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: explain some reactions I've gotten when I've talked about the divorce.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: I don't want to start going around giving everyone my
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: side or campaigning to correct the record, but I also
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: don't know how to comfortably keep attending groups, classes, or
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: seeing practitioners when I don't know what background information they
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: may already have about me or whether some of them
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: may even have encouraged him to leave the partner, I think.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: Finding completely new social groups. And you can't go from
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: person to person and be like, what have you heard
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: about me? Yeah. Finding completely new social groups would also
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: be difficult. I live in a relatively small community, and
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: right now my main outlets outside of these circles are
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: my therapist and a divorce group. So how would you.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: Handle this moving forward? Do I continue showing up and
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: let people form their own opinions? Do I ask certain
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: people directly what they already know? Do I start over
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: socially somewhere else? I've even had the panicky thought, do
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: I literally need to leave town?
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: Leave the state? Leave the country? I realize that may
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: be shock talking, but right now I genuinely don't know
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: how big the fallout is.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: Help!
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: Signed, leaving town. Pronouns are she and her. This is...
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: is a lot.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to sit with the idea that the person
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: just shared for years was sharing a totally different version.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: This isn't like we're splitting up and he's telling people
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 4: right now a version.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: This picture has been painted. This is not a picture
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: that is being painted. This is a past tense. This
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: has happened.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because my initial kind of thought was it'll blow
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 4: over who fucking cares because I have seen some relationships
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: and where I'm like, oh my God, if I were
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: in that person's shoes, I would have left the city.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 4: I would not be working the job they do. And
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: they just stay. And guess what? It doesn't fucking matter.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: It doesn't matter how shitty they were or whatever. I mean, yeah,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: I don't know. So part of me is like, who
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: fucking cares? Just stick it out.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: You certainly can. You certainly can take that option.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: But that's a... You have to.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: Have a personality type to have that.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: That's a bit of an uphill slog.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: You gotta be the dude to just let that shit go.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: Because I feel like there is such a thing where people.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: The dude abides. The dude abides.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: It's one thing if you have a few couples friends
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: and the divorce is them kind of contacting couples friends
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: and being like, oh my God, I left them because X, Y,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: and Z. They're a terrible person or they did this
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: terrible thing.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: Okay. I think that's pretty common.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: But when somebody goes this far, that they're poisoning you
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: to professional groups, to people that you hang out with,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: like practitioners. I can only hear that to mean literal
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: healthcare providers or people that serve this person in their life.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: And to feel like you can't talk to them, that's really,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: really hard.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: I'm wondering though, I mean, obviously from the writer's perspective,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: this seems very scary. But I want to try to
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: challenge something real quick because.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: This seems very vindictive, right?
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: So think of the type of person who would do this,
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: the type of person who would go around to all
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: of these different groups and shit talk their ex to
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: all of them. Once we've pictured that type of person,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: how do they perceive him already?
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: Good point.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: You know, like if he's the type of person that
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: would do this, there are probably cues that when they're
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: hearing all of this, where they're always going to like, yeah,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: this sounds pretty shitty. However, this is also coming from so-and-so.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: That's a good point.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: You're assuming shit-talking, though. Okay. I didn't hear shit-talking. I heard...
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: Just stories. I heard just lying.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: Because if I go to someone and say, my spouse
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: is an asshole, and here's all the ways that they're
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: an asshole. I'm shit-talking them. But if I go to
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: someone and say, my spouse is abusing me, Right, right, yeah.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: That's not shit talking, but it's certainly damaging if it's
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: not true. I see your point, though, Nick, because we've
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: all probably met somebody, even non-clinically. Yeah, hopefully that's the case. Yeah,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: you've met somebody in life who comes up and is just...
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: on one.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: And they're just like telling you all this trash about
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: other people. You realize that's the kind of human you are.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't believe what you say. Especially if I
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: didn't ask. Right.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, sir. Unsolicited information about their ex. Right. And
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, let me tell you about my divorce.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: And you're like, oh, okay. I asked what you wanted
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: for lunch. Yeah, exactly. You assume they're full of shit.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: And you're absolutely right. I think that the kind of
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: person who just has no filters and is on this
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: campaign to damage another person you distrust that innately. And
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: I think you're right. Like on average, I think humans do,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: but sometimes I'm really surprised to discover how little distrust
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: humanity has for people like this. Like I'll hear through
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: the grapevine. Somebody would be like, oh my God, did
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: you hear about so-and-so and such and such? And I'll
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: be like, why would you believe that?
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: Like, that sounds shitty. And like, well, why would they lie?
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, but it's like, because they thirst for the gossip.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: And so like, there's some people that are like, so
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: into like the gossip and they just can't wait to
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: like report this as a fact.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: And it's like, that's gross.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: Like why do we, like sometimes with celebrity gossip, somebody
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: will be like, oh my God, did you hear X, Y,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: Z about this person? And it's like, well, what did
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: they say in response? Like they have no comment about it. Like,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, it's because they're rising above it. Like
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: this other person's trying to get famous by shit talking
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: this up. Like, oh, it was recently, I think it
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: was Jay-Z.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: I think there was like a thing in the news
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: about Jay-Z, this person who had accused him of rape
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: like years ago and just like put his life in
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: a tailspin with Beyonce and all this other stuff. was
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: adjudicated to have lied and she like came out and
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: admitted it because like they had to take legal action
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: and like she is now like facing real consequences and
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: came out and said yep all of it was a
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: lie I was essentially trying to get attention And it's
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: like– but for years, this guy had no response or
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: whatever because he was trying to avoid it.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: It's amazing how often we just believe the hysterics of
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: whoever the accuser is because it's news, because it's exciting.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: It's also the only part of the picture that you
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: may have. Right, yeah. So like if your spouse is
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: going around saying things to people, whether you believe that
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: spouse 110 percent– Right, yeah. Like, if that's all you're getting,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: even if you're just taking, like, maybe, like, 20% of
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: this is true. Yeah. Like, that's still all you've got.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: This is why Jim always says never believe women.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you don't. It's weird that he
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: always puts the hashtag in front of it, too.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: And Nick always. Hashtag never believe women.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: Nick conveniently leaves out the rest of my sentence. Never
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: believe women who accuse me of bad things.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: Gotcha. That's how I sign all my emails. I'm so
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: impressed that Jim said bad things and not something more specific.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: Thanks, man.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: I've really come a long way. That's honestly growth. Watching
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: out with my drops. Yeah. I'm really more careful these days.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: That's the only reason he did that. You see that?
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: I'm helping. Yeah, I saw you hovering your finger over
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: the little laptop button and I was like, wait a minute.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: Just slowly reaching halfway through my sentence. He was grabbing
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: the button that just says Jim.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 4: I actually thought of something, though. If he has been
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 4: lying for years, that means you've existed with these things
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 4: being spread for years. Did you notice a difference? Like,
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 4: almost like now that you're aware of it, do I
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 4: have to leave?
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: You've been living amongst these people who may have been,
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 4: we don't know, because you guys made some really good points. Like,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 4: we don't know what they actually believe or not. But
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 4: you have been existing in a world where people may
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 4: have been viewing you a certain way. And was it okay?
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 4: Did people shun you? Like, I don't know. Only you
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 4: know that, Ryder.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: Or it may be a case where it's like your
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: spouse was dealing with those people before and now there's
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: a divorce. Now you're having to deal with those people.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: Do any of you take the path of talking to
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: these mutual people and saying something like, hey– I'm aware
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: that my ex has gone around saying some pretty defamatory
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: things about me, and I just want to make myself
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: available to correct the record if that's something you have
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: any concerns about or want to talk about.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: If it's somebody you have.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: To deal with, if you have to deal with a
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: person regularly, I don't hate that. Okay. I mean, we
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: all want to hear what you think, Nick, because you've
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: been through this.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 5: What?
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: I've been through divorces. Oh, yeah. You have no idea
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: what Laura says about you.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: Especially on a group thread with Laura. And we're still
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: in a relationship.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: Just telling us a totally maybe different story about you.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: She sends us a newsletter. It's all true. It's a
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: well-subscribed newsletter.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: No, I lean in. I double down.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: That's what I do. I'll show you a monster. No,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: Think of examples in which I would approach somebody.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: Because I also....
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: You know, kind of going back to what I said
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: before is like giving people unsolicited information about your relationship
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: and how it went down is really, it doesn't look
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: good on you. I agree. So I wouldn't necessarily just
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: jump out and say, hey, I kind of want to,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: I want to talk to you about something. Right. If
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: it naturally came up, I would take the opportunity.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: Okay. So if they approached you and said, hey, man,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: I heard some pretty disturbing things.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: Even if they didn't approach me about that, but if
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: they just happened to say, oh, yeah, so I was
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: talking to your ex the other day, or guess who
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 3: I ran into at Walmart or whatever, then I'd just
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: be like, oh, yeah, I heard something recently that came
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: to light, and it's kind of bothering me. I would
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: use that as an opportunity to jump in there and
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: kind of ask and explore a little bit, but I
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: don't think I would just unsolicitedly come.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: Out Would you go on social media and say, hey,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: it's come to my attention that some.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 4: Of you have heard this, that, the.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 3: Other thing about me.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: It's the only place I'd have that conversation.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: I have seen this. Oh, I've seen it this week.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: My only social media is just to go on there
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: and just say, can't get into it right now, but would.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: Love some thoughts and prayers. Got it. Got it. Got it.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about it, but I'm okay.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 4: But somebody's going to have some karma coming to them.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: I can really use some good vibes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: Good vibes. I can use some good vibes. Here's a GoFundMe.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: I don't want to discuss why.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 4: Go read about it there.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: You can read about what's going on there. Help me
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: hire a lawyer to sue my ex for defamation.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe if it comes up or like Jacob said,
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 4: you have to. really interact with this person a lot
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 4: and you know it'd be just like an elephant in
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 4: the room.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: Or if there's a specific thing, like putting an open
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: door out there. I see what Nick means about that.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: But like, hey, I've heard that my ex told a
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: bunch of people that I have, you know, not only
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: a third nipple, but I'm covered with nipples. A lot
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: of nipples. Yeah, that all clothed parts of my body
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: are actually covered with nipples. So I'm proactively putting these
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: nudes out there to correct the record.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 4: That's an only chance in the making.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: If you've heard this about me and my nipples.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: I want you to know it's not entirely true. It's
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: half true.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: The other thing that I like to do, though, too,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 3: in situations like this is just to consciously be always
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 3: focusing on putting my best effort foot forward and like
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: my best presentation. Cause I, I want people to, I want,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: here's what I would love for the writer, for the
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 3: writer to be able to just be the best version
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 3: of themselves.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: This is what I, this is ideally best. Yeah.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: To a point where you don't have to bring up any, anything.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: You never have to defend it. You never have to
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: say anything about it, but because you are constant, uh,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: constantly being the best version of yourself, you teach people, uh,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: That this can't possibly be true. Yeah. Like, oh, you know,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: I can't, when I think of her, I can't imagine
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: that she would ever do this. Now that I've gotten
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: to know her.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: This seems very out of character.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: I've been swimming with her. She's not covered in nipples.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: But she does wear an entire suit swimming. I don't
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: think that rumor is entirely true. I don't know.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: I have a deviation of this question, Whitney, that I'm
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: curious what your thoughts are. I have had situations where
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: I'm the therapist to the person who is about to
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: go out and talk shit or is actively talking shit.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: And there is one stereotype that I've seen, which is
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: often a woman who says, I need to warn other women.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: I need to warn society. That this guy's a narcissist.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: I'm doing a service. I'm going to protect everybody by
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: letting them know how two-faced and what a liar he
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: is and that he was verbally abusive to me or
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: whatever their acts is that they need to grind. There's this,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: and this comes up a lot. I have the answer
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: to this. Where I'll hear women say, I have this
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: obligation to out this guy to protect women everywhere. And
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: like recently there was a website shut down called Are
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: We Dating the Same Guy?
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: That was helpful.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: Because it was getting sued to pieces for all the
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: libel and all this defamation where women would jump on
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: there and just flagrantly dox dudes and talk all this
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: shit about them. And then these guys would be searchable
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: on the internet as nefarious actors. And that was causing
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: real damages in their lives. And yeah, you can't do
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: that in a society. So I'm curious what your thoughts
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: are on it. And maybe right now you almost seem like, oh,
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with that stereotype.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: But I've seen it a lot.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 5: Oh, no, no, no.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: A crusading woman.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's an unfamiliar stereotype.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: When you get a female patient who's like, I'm going
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: to go on this crusade to warn the world. But
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: it suspiciously sounds a lot like just talk shit about
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: this guy. Or tell everybody about the innards of our
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: relationship and everything that went wrong.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: What is your thought on that? Like, what do you counsel?
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess therapeutically, I really have... I don't have
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 4: very much experience that as a therapist in that situation.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 4: What I've heard more is, like, I will have clients
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 4: come in and they will not like maybe their friend's
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 4: partner or something, or like they did something that I
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 4: don't approve of or like... And I have to sit
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 4: with them and say... again, I don't give a lot
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 4: of advice in therapy. I would usually preface this by saying,
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 4: are you open to hearing some input here and not just,
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 4: you know, exploring. And what I will tell them is
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 4: very rarely does that work out because if you go
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 4: and tell your friend and in my personal scenarios in therapy,
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 4: if you go and tell your friend, Hey, old dude,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 4: you know, I don't, I don't like him for you.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 4: I don't think he treats you well, or, you know,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 4: he doesn't do this or he doesn't do that, or
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 4: he should help more around the house, whatever. Um, they're
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 4: going to choose the dude, like most of the time you're,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 4: you're going to be the person in trouble. Or what
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 4: I might say is if it is something that feels
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 4: very big to you, you can mention it once. And
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 4: then if they're like, maybe are a little offended or
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 4: hurt by that and they choose to stay, you either
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 4: don't be friends with them or you don't mention it again.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: Hmm.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 4: Now, when it comes to like.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: You've made your point at that point, basically. Right, right.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: You've said your piece.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 4: You've made your stance clear. They don't want to hear
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 4: it again.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: I don't approve of this. I don't love this. And
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: I always like the like, hey, if you ever want
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: to do anything about this, if you ever want to
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: have a conversation about this, this is where I stand
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: on this. And if you'd like to continue this conversation,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: I'm open to continuing this conversation.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 3: If you ever want him out of the picture, wink.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. That's a shovel and a trash bag.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 4: Butterfly is the code word. But I think.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: So much more than three bodies.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 4: The women who kind of want to warn others, though
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 4: I have seen that before. And the thing is, maybe
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 4: the same thing. If there's a version where you can
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 4: reach out to someone and say, hey, this... This guy,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 4: like you message them directly or something on social media.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 4: This guy has done this or that to me. Fine.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 4: But set the expectation low. And usually as a therapist,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 4: I would just ask, what's your goal from this? You know,
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 4: let's dig in there a little bit. What is your
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 4: goal by telling others? Is that to make you feel
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 4: better or? Are you really trying to help? Is it both?
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, what do you think will happen? We play
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 4: that scenario.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: What's going to happen?
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 4: What are they going to say in your mind?
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: Will you be successful in protecting?
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 4: Usually once you talk through the reality instead of their
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 4: fantasy mind that's like, I'm going to tell them and
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 4: they'll know and leave the person and everyone will know then.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 4: They'll shun him if it's like a long shun.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: And then he'll be miserable. They'll be miserable.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 4: Do you think it's really going to work out that way?
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: They're not miserable today.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: What would you have done if one of his exes
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: had contacted you after you guys started a relationship and said, hey,
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: he's only with you because we didn't work out and
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: he's trash and these are the things he's going to
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: do to you?
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: Heads up.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: Like, would you believe that? Or would you be like, nope,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: you're a jilted lover who is trying to sabotage his
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: next thing.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: Peter didn't believe that. And that was to his, uh,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: taking the warnings.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, we know this everlasting shame. We know this
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 3: for a fact that this happens because you see this where, um,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: the mistress then marries the man.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 4: Yes. Right.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: And then the man then cheats.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There is such a thing as patterns.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: Yes. That happens because everybody's just like, oh, well, he's
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: not going to do it to me.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 4: I have a friend right now. We've kept up with
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 4: for years. Like I watched her go through her divorce
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 4: and the new girl was like, oh, well, he just
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 4: said all these like, you were this terrible person, you know,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 4: made up all these stories. And she sat with it
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 4: for a few years. Then when he did the exact
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 4: same fucking thing to the next girl, then she's calling
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 4: her up. I'm so sorry. My friend was like, fuck
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 4: you at first. Now they like chat.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: But I think it goes back to your point, though.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 4: You know who I'm talking about. They need to support you.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: The warning system wouldn't work anyway. It doesn't work. And
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: so getting out there and taking out public ads that
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: are like, hey, this person's a bad guy. he's mean
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: Society is always going to assume that there was a
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: lot of complex things going on in that relationship. And
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: it's not just this person is the shape of evil.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: It's probably not that. So I don't see the logic
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: in that. But yeah, I mean, for the writer, this
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: is such a tough position to be in because yeah,
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: all of your social groups feel like tainted. I guess
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: the advice that all four of us are offering back
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: is probably don't assume this is as bad as you
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: think it is. Most people are used to hearing this childish,
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: garbage and lies and bad blood and things like that.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: It is so common that I don't think that we
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: really think bad things about people universally. And generally, we
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: defer to how we know them. If I found out
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: that any of your partners hated you, that wouldn't make
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: me want to be your friend less.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 3: Whatever.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry that didn't work out for you and your partner.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: And if your partner called me and was like, oh,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: you need to know that this person's a piece of shit.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: And they're like, yeah, I know they're a piece of shit.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: Like we're friends. Like I'm very aware they're a piece
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: of shit.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: That's what I like about them. I like, yeah, I'm
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: a piece of shit. We are shitty people together and
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you got away. I hope you're really happy.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: But yeah, like I think that most of the time
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: you're not like, oh no, the kinds of people that
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: I choose to be friends with, I choose my friendships
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: based on how happy they are in their relationships.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: I don't give a fuck. Like I hope you're happy.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Like if it's not working out for you,
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: I hope that you're not, you know, unhappy. Like that's it.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: Like whatever. But I don't know.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: After one of you broke up, your ex called me
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: and was like, hey, I just want you to realize
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: what a piece of shit they are.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't take the call.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: I'm the same guy who did not want to see
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: all the rooms.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: Of your house. I'm uncomfortable with all of this.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 4: Yes, I had that happen once. My cousin that I
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 4: grew up with were really close. When she went through
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 4: her divorce, her husband tried to call all the family.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 3: Oh, boy.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 4: She did this, this, and that. And I was just like, pfft.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: Bye.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 4: Can you believe he did that? They're like, yeah, what
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 4: a psycho. Right.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: I feel like it almost always blows back on the
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: person who's doing it. And if they're saying horrific things like, oh, yeah,
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: this person does crime.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 4: Well, that was in a reaction rage. This person's talking
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 4: about years of groundwork. So it is different. I acknowledge that.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: So I mean, right-sizing it right or just assuming it's
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: not too bad. Maybe don't move yet.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 4: Just give it a minute and feel it out. If
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 4: people really are against you and creating– huge disruptions in
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 4: your life. Right. Maybe, I don't know.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: I think it's wise to leave that door open. If it's,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: if it's so profound that people like really heard something scary, like,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: and I can imagine some pretty scary things that could
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: be said about a person and them being like, you know,
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: kind of given this image. And if you feel like, okay,
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: that is something I cannot coexist with. Like it's, it's
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: one thing if my friends or people I, you know,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: do life with, they think I was a jerk and
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: bad at relationship.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, fine.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: But if they believe I am distinctly a different character
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: human being than I actually am, that fundamentally bothers me.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: So I could see Ryder going back into their life
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: and signaling to people, hey, I went through a really
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: messy breakup. I understand that my person may have been
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: out there talking about me. I'm discovering some of this
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: over time. If anybody's heard anything and wants to talk
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: about it, I'm happy to correct the record.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't say any of that publicly. You wouldn't
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: say that at all?
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: Okay. I might say that to an individual. Sorry, that's
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: how I meant it. Okay, yeah, yeah. Small groups.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: With a practitioner.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: You're visiting with your doctor and you're like, hey, I
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: know that my partner and I had you both. I'm
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: aware that they said a lot of weird things about me.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. If you ever want to ask questions. If anything,
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: I would have a direct conversation with an individual. Okay.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: I would not open that up and... give information that
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know if people have at that point. Okay.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: Because then, yeah, I mean, like, you don't want to
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: get into that situation either. Right, yeah. I know this
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: person's accused me of witchcraft and killing babies. That's it.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: That's plural. And I'm uncomfortable with that, you know? I
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: don't even know who you're talking about, but I'm uncomfortable.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: That's what we should all start doing is just correcting rumors. Listen,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: I know many of you have heard. About the nipples.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: The whole nipples thing. Nipple gate, as.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 3: We're calling it.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: And then never actually explain what it was. I want
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: you all to know. That I categorically deny all of
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: the accusations made in Nipplegate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: many of you have heard about me and the whole
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: Lithuanian thing. All right.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: I just want you to know it's not true. And
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: I won't dignify the accusations with an explanation.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: All right. It's just, it's not true. No, I met
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: the princess. Yeah. Several times. Yeah. It was a platonic relationship.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: But the accusations are not true. The royalty and I
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: have a peaceful and platonic relationship. I will have you know.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: Good luck with this, Ryder.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: I'd love to hear how things end up going over time.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: But generally, I think that we... What's the old saying, Nick?
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: That you'll be relieved to realize how little people think
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: about you or something like that. You'll be less anxious
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: about what people think about you.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 3: When you realize... If you knew how little they did.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: How little they do, yeah, or how seldom they do.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: And I think that's true. Even when people have been
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: delivered hot gossip, they're like, okay, well... I filter this
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: through my lived experience with that person.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: So she was so mad at me today. We were
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: going to an event this afternoon and I knew there
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: were going to be quite a few people at this
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: event that she had not a number of people in
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: this event that she hadn't seen in a while that
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: she knew that she had seen in a while. And
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: so like on the way there, I basically caught her
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: up on like three or four pieces of gossip. Basically,
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: I was like, you're about to see these people and
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: here are the things that like not stick your foot into. Yeah,
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: don't ask about this. And I was just like pre-warning.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: This is so much stuff. Why haven't you told me
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: about any of this?
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 4: I was like, we needed a card.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: Do you read my newsletter? Are you not subscribed? I
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: was like, I don't care about it.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 5: I'm just letting you know so you don't ask an
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 5: unfortunate question.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you so we don't have to get more involved.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: That's it. It's the only time I gossip. I don't
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: want to be involved already. I'm already more involved than
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: I care to be. Just by having to say this part. Oh, man. Well,
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: good luck, Ryder. Love this one.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: I want to hear what happens with it, because I
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: think this is something that may end up being one
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: of those things that just blows over so fast that
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: it actually surprises you.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: So don't sell your house yet. Live into this a
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: little bit. Worst case scenario, yeah, it becomes a place
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: that you realize everything's soiled and you can't be there anymore.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: And then, okay, then we think about big steps. But
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: for right now, just kind of live into it. We're
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: going to take a quick break, and when we come back,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: we're wrapping up the show. You are still listening to PodTherapy.
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 3: Today's episode is brought to you by Smitty Scoop, Mason Miller,
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 3: Tess Miller, Byler T, Paris, Team Monaco, Oscar Suanrus, Hannah Marie,
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 3: Emma Kane, Myra, and Sam Cohn. And if you'd like
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 3: to sponsor the show, become a TheraProducer at patreon.com slash therapy.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: As we wrap up the show, I want to remind you,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: you can go down to patreon.com slash therapy, and you
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: can get our extended show ad-free a day earlier, as
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: well as enjoy our live chat, Discord community, And our
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: spontaneous deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research, roundups, and rants.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: And I believe that we've got somebody new to the TheraParty, Nick.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: Who's joined us at Patreon.com slash therapy? We got a
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: new TheraPod, Time Travel Bushcraft.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: Hey!
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 3: Welcome.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: I like that. That is a great name. And of course,
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: we'd like to thank the benevolent, revered, generous, and figuratively...
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: I don't need bushcraft now, but I might need it later.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: Or I may have needed.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 3: It in the past.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: There we go. Yeah, this is.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 3: Very good.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know which way. You want to be ready.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: You don't want to get boxed into a corner here
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: with your bushcraft. And I want to be up to
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: date with my bushcraft. I want to make sure that
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: my bushcraft is correct. I want my Bushcraft to be
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: on a whole newspaper with today's date on it. In
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: the picture. Anyway, thanks, Pickett.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: We'd like to thank our bosses, the mysterious and shrouded
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: Illuminati members of our fan club, our Thera producers. Thank you,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: Jake Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie Jr., Mids, Smitty Scoop, Richard
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: fucking Macy, Judy Schneider, Malia, Leon Kassab, Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: Tess Miller, Dan Martin, Sammy Scoop, Slurpy Kai, Motherfucker, Ben Stanley,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: Slappin' Ya Face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, Byler T, Mike Helm,
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: Oscar Swanrose, Paris, A Sunny Boy, Darren Cunningham, Lib, Sandra McWaffle,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: Team Monaco, Thunder Cougar, Falcon Scoop, Heyo, Hannah Marie, Andrew Langmead, Emma, Tonka,
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: and Pony Soprano, Alina, Brady Malachek, Chick Felicio, Gabriel Adame,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: Sean Sutherland, Max the Ginger Scoop, Chad Mag, Adam Warren,
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: Inka LaPrinz, Sam Cohn, Be Gay, Do Crimes, Ellie O'Dare,
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: Not Kieran Knightley, Amy Aardvark, Edgar Allen Ho, and Dale
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: the King.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 3: If you'd like to hear this episode uncut and unedited,
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 3: why wouldn't you? And enjoy our spontaneous side projects. Go
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 3: to patreon.com slash therapy and thank you for supporting the 12.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: I'm going off script. That's all the time we got
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: for this week's session. We want to thank our landlords,
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: SJ and the Ruckus Scenic Koi Pond Studios, and thanks
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: to you who contributed to our show today. We really
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: appreciate it.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: But pod therapy isn't something you should keep all to yourself.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: Share it with the world. Tag us on the socials
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: when you do. It's at podtherapyguys on, fuck, Instagram, threads,
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: and Twitter. And it's slash podtherapy on Facebook. And don't
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: forget about all the extra goodies at patreon.com slash therapy.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: It's pretty fucking good.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 3: Do you want to submit a question to the show?
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 3: You can ask anonymously at podtherapyguys.net. Email us at podtherapyguys
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: at gmail.com or click the link on the episode description
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 3: and be taken to our anonymous Google form. Thanks. I'm Nick.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: I'm Hitler.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 5: Fuck!
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: I knew I was going to do it.
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 4: Fuck!
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 5: Thanks.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 3: We'll see you for your appointment next week.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: I'm Ron. We almost did it. Goodbye, everybody.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 4: Bye.