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175: Terry Hanratty - Notre Dame & NFL · Sports History Network

• 0:59
  This podcast is part of the Sports History Network, your headquarters for the yesteryear.
• 1:03
  Of your favorite sport.
• 1:04
  You can Learn more at sportshistorynetwork.com Few.
• 1:08
  Quarterbacks have ever experienced the road that Terry Hanratty took.
• 1:13
  From a powerhouse team at Notre Dame that won a national championship to a team that could barely win in the NFL and ultimately won two super bowl championships, to a team that didn't win a single game.
• 1:28
  Talk about the ups and downs.
• 1:30
  That was the crazy road that Hanratty's career took.
• 1:34
  And next on Sports Forgotten Heroes, Terry and I are going to talk about that and a lot more.
• 1:42
  This is Sports Forgotten Heroes, a tribute to the stars who shaped the games we love to watch and the games we love to play.
• 1:49
  Stars who provided us with many thrills, but when their time was up, they faded away.
• 1:54
  We'll take a look back at their spectacular careers, their moments of fame, even if it was just for one season or just one game.
• 2:01
  And now, here's your host, Warren Rogan.
• 2:04
  Hello and welcome to Sports Forgotten Heroes and a Milestone episode number 175 with college football hall of Famer Terry Hanratty.
• 2:16
  Now, when I launched Sports Forgotten Heroes, I had hoped I would get a special stars on the show and I have been more than fortunate to have my share.
• 2:27
  From hockey's Red Kelly and Dennis Maruk, to baseball's Denny McLean and Skip Lockwood, to basketball stars like Darrell Carrier and Archie Clark, and football stars like Frank Ryan, Ron McDowell and Chuck Foreman, among others, they have all joined.
• 2:47
  And now Terry Hanratty.
• 2:50
  It's great to have the hall of Fame quarterback on this milestone episode.
• 2:55
  He had a very interesting career.
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  Recruited to Notre Dame by Ara Parseghian, was part of the national champion 1966 team and was drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers, was a starter for the team, then slid back to number two behind Terry Bradshaw and then was
• 3:15
  a part of two super bowl winning Steeler teams.
• 3:19
  And then he finished his career with the expansion Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
• 3:25
  To say that Hanratty saw it all during his career, that would be somewhat of an understatement and I am thrilled and feel very fortunate to have Terry on this episode.
• 3:39
  Before we get into today's show, please follow Sports Forgotten Heroes on X at sportsfheroes.
• 3:45
  Look for the Sports Forgotten Heroes page on Facebook, check out Sports forgotten heroes on YouTube, and for short video content, watch Sports Forgotten Heroes on Instagram and if you have a comment, question or anything you'd like to share,
• 4:02
  reach out and send an email to sportsfh.infomail.com that's sportsfh.info and as always, thanks for your support.
• 4:18
  Okay, without further ado, let's get into today's show with my special guest, Terry Hatred.
• 4:25
  Terry, welcome to Sports Forgotten Heroes.
• 4:29
  I am thrilled you can join.
• 4:31
  I know you're dealing with some personal issues and, and we'll get to that.
• 4:36
  But this is a special episode.
• 4:38
  I got Terry Hanratty on a landmark Episode number 175 of Sports Forgotten Heroes.
• 4:46
  And I am thrilled to have you aboard.
• 4:49
  Well, thank you.
• 4:49
  It's great here.
• 4:50
  It's been a while since we've been trying to put this thing together, but we finally, finally did it.
• 4:54
  Yes, yes, we did.
• 4:56
  You know, I got to start with this, Terry.
• 5:00
  You had a terrific college football career at Notre Dame.
• 5:07
  So good.
• 5:08
  In fact, just last year, If I'm correct, 20, 25, a wrong was righted and you were inducted into the College Football hall of Fame.
• 5:21
  So let's start there.
• 5:22
  What an odd talk about what that means.
• 5:24
  Oh, true.
• 5:25
  It sort of came late, you know, after a while, I have to admit, when I first got nominated, you know, way back when, and it didn't get in, didn't get it and upset me a bit, you know, then
• 5:37
  I started thinking, I said, wait a minute, football is really crazy because if you're a baseball player, say you're a pitcher, what's your era, you know, what's your win loss record, what's your strike after walk ratio, all these
• 5:49
  good things in, in football it's totally different because it's, if my offensive line doesn't block, I don't complete a pass, my receivers don't catch the ball, whatever, and if I throw over their head, they're not going to catch
• 6:02
  it.
• 6:02
  So it's such a team sport.
• 6:04
  I would have loved to have seen the 1966 team, the one we won the national championship and had that whole team put in because I think that's really what, what it comes down to it, I mean, obviously very
• 6:15
  happy that it happened and had a great time out in Las Vegas with all the other guys and the old guys that, that I knew from way back when, you know, Steve Spurrier and these other guys have already
• 6:27
  been inducted.
• 6:28
  So we had a good time socializing there.
• 6:30
  So that was, it was a lot of fun and it's good, you know, it closes the chapter of football.
• 6:34
  That's it.
• 6:35
  There's no more I can think of except for watching and criticizing.
• 6:40
  Yeah, well, there's a lot to, there's A lot to watch and a lot to criticize these days.
• 6:47
  You know, I think when people talk about Notre Dame football, they go back, they think about Knute Rockne and they think about Johnny Lujak, who won three national championships as a quarterback for the Irish, Joe Montana, who won
• 7:04
  in 1977.
• 7:06
  Then you talk about guys like Joe Theisman and Darryl lamonica and Tom Warte.
• 7:13
  What about Terry Hanratty?
• 7:15
  You won a national championship on while playing in South Bend.
• 7:22
  It was an interesting year because we had, you know, the team before, I think they lost two games.
• 7:28
  And we did throw a touchdown pass the whole season, which is almost unheard of even back in those days.
• 7:35
  But we had, you know, we had a great offense, great defense.
• 7:37
  The only thing missing was the quarterback and the receiver.
• 7:41
  Well, to start the 66 year, you couldn't play as freshman.
• 7:44
  You know, that was a national NCAA role.
• 7:46
  You had to come to the university, get settled academically and football, all that good stuff.
• 7:52
  And so, you know, I won the starting job my sophomore year.
• 7:56
  And, you know, Jimmy and I, Seymour and I, you know, we're starting out, and the only real question mark that Notre Dame had was the quarterback and the receiver.
• 8:05
  How are they going to perform under, you know, these kind of conditions?
• 8:09
  Because we've never done that.
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  And so, you know, we came out of the first game in the season, national tv against Purdue, and Bob Grishi was a quarterback, Purdue, and they were ranked number five in the country.
• 8:19
  And I think we were three or four, something like that.
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  And, you know, we won 24, 16 after three touchdown passes.
• 8:26
  Jim caught all three over 300 yards total passing.
• 8:29
  I think Jim had like 297.
• 8:31
  I think that still holds.
• 8:33
  Imagine all these years later, at least, you know, one receiver catching that many passes and yards.
• 8:39
  And so it, you know, we had a great, you know, a great offensive line.
• 8:44
  Nick Eddy, Larry Contra were unbelievable running backs.
• 8:47
  And, you know, they.
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  They protected me and I had a lot of time to throw the ball.
• 8:51
  And, you know, we did.
• 8:51
  We did well.
• 8:52
  I mean, it was a great team.
• 8:54
  And if you look at that team, all the guys that have gone to the pros and had great careers in hall of Fame, college or the pros, you know, it's a legitimate deal for.
• 9:05
  Someone who didn't get to see you play.
• 9:07
  How would you describe yourself as a quarterback?
• 9:10
  Well, I threw the ball a lot and I ran the ball a lot.
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  So I did both.
• 9:15
  I mean, it was a, you know, a dual threat, I guess we call them now.
• 9:18
  And I like to Throw more in high school.
• 9:21
  That's probably the most interesting thing.
• 9:23
  It didn't dawn on me until years later that, you know, we had a team from western Pennsylvania.
• 9:29
  Butler, Pennsylvania.
• 9:30
  Right.
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  30 miles north of Pittsburgh.
• 9:33
  And so we had a team that was probably one of the best, better teams in the country.
• 9:36
  I mean, we were that stacked in my, my high school coach in a 20 year period at 62 Division 1 kids.
• 9:43
  So there were people a lot before me and a lot after me that, you know, went on to Division 1, but we had a system.
• 9:49
  It looked a lot like the old Woody Hayes, you know, three yards in a pot of dust and just, you know, just march downfield.
• 9:57
  March downfield.
• 9:58
  Well, at that time, all you needed was a quarterback who could hand the ball here and had the ball there.
• 10:03
  I played defensive back my sophomore and junior year and I didn't start at quarterback until my senior year.
• 10:10
  Then we lit it up nine games.
• 10:12
  You know, we had 299 yards.
• 10:14
  And they blame me for not getting 300 because I missed one of the extra points, obviously.
• 10:20
  But, you know, that was then the next game I started.
• 10:22
  My tenth game starting at quarterback was against Purdue on national tv.
• 10:28
  Wow.
• 10:28
  I think that's even more crazy than any kind of statue could have thrown up on that first day.
• 10:36
  Now these kids have 30, 40 starts in high school and whatnot.
• 10:40
  And with this team, that team, and just move around and it's just craziness right now.
• 10:45
  Yeah, yeah.
• 10:46
  You know, I've listened to your podcast, Hanratty's Huddle.
• 10:51
  Terrific podcast.
• 10:52
  I encourage everybody to listen to it.
• 10:54
  I love the conversations that you guys have, and some of them I remember well, particularly when you interviewed Seth Wickersham, who I just recently had on my show, Seth from espn.
• 11:11
  You told him that you don't remember many of your games with the exception of the bad games you played.
• 11:20
  However, I do have to ask about 1966 against Michigan State.
• 11:28
  We could probably do an entire episode on that game.
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  But let's start here.
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  Was there any extra motivation on your side, on the Notre Dame side due to the fact that Michigan State had defeated you the year previously, 12 to 3, and held Notre Dame to minus 12 yards rushing.
• 11:55
  So going into that game, was there extra motivation?
• 11:58
  No, not at all.
• 11:59
  Because it was totally different team.
• 12:01
  Because that year before, like I told you, we didn't throw a touchdown pass all year.
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  You know, we didn't have our quarterback really wanted to be a wide receiver.
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  There was nobody there that was better equipped than him.
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  And his equipment wasn't all that sharp.
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  So they, you know, we basically handed the ball off right, left and Michigan State just loaded up on the defensive line.
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  So we knew now that they couldn't do that.
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  We threw the ball almost as much as we did run the ball.
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  So they had to be aware of that.
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  And you know, we had very good receivers, obviously.
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  Jim Seymour and Nick Eddie was a great receiver and Rocky Blair, you know, all these other guys that got out into the past pattern, it caused a headache for a lot of people.
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  So there was no extra incentive maybe for the other guys who played in the game that Jim and I were, you know, we were in the stands with the other freshmen students and just watching the game because I
• 12:53
  kept seeing everybody on the wire scrimmage.
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  I just wanted to get in there, come out of the stand, right, and throw on a helmet, throw the ball downfield.
• 13:00
  But no, it was those two teams.
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  You know, they talk about the, the 1010 tie.
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  You know, people don't realize that Duffy kicked the ball to us from the 50 yard line and I was out of the game.
• 13:12
  You know, Bubba Smith separated my shoulder in the first quarter.
• 13:16
  Right.
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  Our center George G.
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  Was out the game.
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  He hurt his ankle.
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  Nick Eddy fell off the train and hurt his shoulder.
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  Shoulder.
• 13:25
  And so we had a lot of guys that did not, you know, I was out in the first quarter, the second series, I think.
• 13:30
  And so, you know, then we, with Cole who played through the touchdown to get the game tied because we were down 103 and.
• 13:42
  But when we tried to throw, came through and they sacked him.
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  So now we're back up on about our 12 yard line.
• 13:48
  It'd be foolish because they have a guy kicked a 50 yard field.
• 13:51
  Be foolish for us to try to go from there.
• 13:55
  So I mean they could go for midfield and try to win the game.
• 13:58
  They chose to punt and back us up.
• 14:00
  So we just, you know, sat on the ball, which was a smart thing to do because end up with the national championship.
• 14:06
  I mean they, they got one pole as a national champion.
• 14:09
  But that was before we played Southern Cal.
• 14:12
  Right.
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  So we beat Southern cal in California 51 nothing.
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  And they were 10 ranked team.
• 14:20
  So that should have easily.
• 14:22
  You know, we tied at Michigan State.
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  At Michigan State with three guys out of the, out of the game.
• 14:27
  And you know, we should have easily won all polls at that time, but they took their poll too early.
• 14:34
  I keep saying it's probably the Detroit Free president then.
• 14:37
  Well, you've hit on a lot of little things that, that I certainly want to discuss.
• 14:42
  Beginning with Bubba you know.
• 14:47
  You know, from a personal standpoint, I gotta believe that the game did not turn out the way you had wanted it to because you got knocked out in the first quarter by Bubba Smith.
• 14:59
  Tough question, but what, if anything, do you remember about that play?
• 15:06
  Well, it's a really interesting play because that series, we're, we're marching.
• 15:11
  We were, you know, we're getting, getting it done.
• 15:15
  And also when Guy comes off the bench running back with a play from Arrow, and he said, quarterback draw, second down.
• 15:23
  Oh, wow.
• 15:23
  We haven't run a quarterback draw a long time.
• 15:26
  So I go back, you know, take my four steps back and go to the middle and I go, whoa.
• 15:32
  It's just a sea of green.
• 15:34
  So I get flushed out of the pocket and all of a sudden I got hit by one guy and sort of spin around and there comes Bubba.
• 15:41
  He just buried me into the ground.
• 15:43
  And I get up and now start down.
• 15:45
  My shoulder felt a little strange, you know, I couldn't move it very well.
• 15:50
  The next play was a pass to the left.
• 15:53
  So I reached up, put my arm up to throw the ball and wow, the page just shot right through it.
• 15:58
  I put the ball 10 yards in the stance.
• 16:01
  When I came off the field, he said, why'd you run that draw?
• 16:06
  I said, you called it?
• 16:08
  No, no, I called a half back draw.
• 16:11
  The guy who brought the play in screwed it up.
• 16:17
  So there I was, I said, there's something wrong with my shoulder.
• 16:20
  It really feels weird.
• 16:22
  So they took me to the locker room and came out all strapped up and I was done for the day that I remember quite well.
• 16:30
  Well, you know, tough game.
• 16:33
  Obviously, you guys, you know, it was a 10, 10 tie.
• 16:38
  But there were so many different things.
• 16:39
  Your injury, you, you mentioned Nick Eddy.
• 16:43
  I mean, falls off the train.
• 16:47
  He slipped and fell down some steps.
• 16:49
  Yeah, it was a snowy day and it was cold, you know, last game, his next to last game of the year, and we were in Michigan, so you got to get, get some snow in November.
• 16:59
  And so it wasn't heavy, but it was just, you know, there.
• 17:02
  And the steps coming off the train were almost straight down.
• 17:05
  But it's weird.
• 17:07
  And he just caught his heel and slipped and he, he already had a bad shoulder and all of a sudden, bam.
• 17:12
  He just fell off and jerked the shoulder up on the rail and, you know, got him out of the game.
• 17:20
  So no Terry Hanratty, no Nick Eddie.
• 17:25
  And you sort of talked about it era's decision not to go for it at the end of the game.
• 17:30
  Here's what Jerry Green wrote in the Sporting News, and I'm gonna quote it exactly.
• 17:37
  Notre Dame soured its rich tradition by fighting to protect the tie rather than to win.
• 17:47
  He quoted Parian as saying, hold the ball, run, let the clock run out, keep the tie.
• 17:54
  Era said I wasn't going to do a jackass thing like letting them get an interception on us and cost us the game after 60 minutes of, of football like our boys played.
• 18:08
  So you know, obviously there's a lot of controversy about that.
• 18:14
  And you said it, that Eric did make the right decision.
• 18:18
  Well, there's no doubt in anybody's mind.
• 18:20
  It's not for Michigan.
• 18:22
  I mean they're the ones that are claiming this stuff.
• 18:25
  But it makes sense.
• 18:27
  I mean, like I said earlier, Duffy kicked the ball to us from the 50 yard line with about a little less than two minutes to go in the game and he expect us to go for it on the
• 18:39
  12.
• 18:40
  We tried, we dropped, we first and 10.
• 18:43
  Kohli dropped back, a throw, incomplete pass.
• 18:46
  I'm sorry, he got sacked.
• 18:47
  So it's an 8 yard loss.
• 18:49
  So now we're on the 12 yard line.
• 18:52
  So no, I mean it was, it would have been crazy to try to go for it.
• 18:55
  So you couldn't run to get there.
• 18:57
  You had to throw the ball.
• 18:58
  And people don't realize that a week earlier that he's a diabetic.
• 19:03
  So they're feeding him all the candy and all this stuff, juices and orange juice, you know, keep them going for the game.
• 19:08
  So that was, you know, another factor that was involved and it made no sense.
• 19:13
  We had Southern California play the following week.
• 19:16
  Yeah, they were done with their season.
• 19:19
  And you thumped them, you thumped them 51 to nothing at that point.
• 19:24
  It was the worst loss in, in USC history.
• 19:29
  Yeah, it's still the worst home loss ever.
• 19:31
  Yeah, you know, we, we proved that.
• 19:35
  You know, we beat number five team Oklahoma in Norman earlier in the year.
• 19:40
  38.
• 19:40
  Nothing.
• 19:42
  Yes.
• 19:42
  We place four top ten teams that year and we pretty much crushed three of them and we tied one.
• 19:48
  Yeah, no, no doubt.
• 19:49
  1966 team was just this awesome team.
• 19:53
  Talk about that.
• 19:54
  In the Michigan State team also, if you.
• 19:57
  I still say to this day it's the two best teams ever to play each other.
• 20:01
  Wow.
• 20:02
  Because if you look at both sides of the ball, they're hall of famers all over the place.
• 20:07
  Yeah.
• 20:08
  First round picks.
• 20:09
  I mean these guys have played a lot of years in the NFL.
• 20:11
  You know, Alan Page and Bubba Smith and Clint Jones and Gene Washington and with Nick Eddie here and a Lot of guys from both sides of the team went on to the pros and hall of Fame type people.
• 20:25
  So those two teams are really loaded and you know, everybody's.
• 20:28
  Alabama was undefeated back then.
• 20:30
  Yeah, they were.
• 20:30
  They.
• 20:31
  They went 1100 and they didn't win the national champion.
• 20:36
  Crazy to think that would see that.
• 20:38
  Was back in the day when they had a lot of success against some of the Northern teams that were big burly guys and they were, they were small and quicker.
• 20:49
  But when you get a team like Michigan State or Notre Dame, both of those teams had both big and strong and fast.
• 20:57
  Our team speed was unbelievable.
• 20:59
  Michigan State was unbelievable.
• 21:01
  So you sort of turned, turned the tide of the Northern teams being those big plot guys in the Southern team being a small and quick guys.
• 21:10
  Now you find out both teams are big.
• 21:12
  Both north and south are 300 pounds.
• 21:14
  Right?
• 21:15
  But back then we were probably the first two teams that really went large and fast.
• 21:20
  And I don't think at that time Alabama could have handled our, you know, they got damn defensive line that was £200.
• 21:28
  You know, we had our offensive lines really fast.
• 21:31
  They were 250, 260.
• 21:33
  Wow.
• 21:33
  And they played the pros a lot of years and they were, you know, legit people.
• 21:41
  You know, you had, you had one heck of a year though.
• 21:49
  53.1% completion percentage.
• 21:52
  You threw for 1,547 yards, eight touchdowns, 10 interceptions.
• 21:58
  But you finished eighth in Heisman voting.
• 22:01
  Steve Spurrier won that year.
• 22:03
  That, of course, was just your first year of college football.
• 22:06
  You went on to lead Notre Dame for two more years.
• 22:10
  67, you guys went 8 and 2.
• 22:13
  68.
• 22:13
  You went 7, 2 and 1.
• 22:15
  What are your greatest memories on the football field at Notre Dame?
• 22:22
  Well, I think just the camaraderie.
• 22:25
  I mean, we had our 60.
• 22:26
  16 was great.
• 22:28
  Or my junior senior.
• 22:30
  We were good.
• 22:31
  We didn't have the talent.
• 22:33
  Nobody.
• 22:33
  And that's a generational team we have there.
• 22:36
  It wasn't until years later that they had, you know, equivalent teams that, that to the 66.
• 22:42
  And I think, you know, just, I think the friendships you have in football, it's second to none.
• 22:49
  And, and it just, you know, I still talk to the guys that, you know, that I played with and, you know, we, we just reminisce about old times and it's interesting, it's a lot of fun.
• 22:59
  And I think being.
• 23:01
  I was able to spend four years with Eric Barcelon, who I think is the greatest coach in the world, and he got the best thing out of you know, Notre Dame was horrible before Eric got there, and he
• 23:11
  took a team that was really bad.
• 23:13
  It almost won the national championship his first year, except for bad call on Southern Cal, last game of the year where we'd been undefeated and won another national championship for him.
• 23:24
  And so it was.
• 23:26
  It was.
• 23:26
  It was.
• 23:27
  I made the right decision.
• 23:28
  I almost went to Michigan State.
• 23:30
  I mean, that was my second.
• 23:31
  Duffy was a wonderful human being and got a call from the coach at Notre Dame who recruited my area, John Ray, the defensive coach.
• 23:40
  And he said, eric's going to be at Pittsburgh.
• 23:43
  Can you have lunch with him?
• 23:45
  Certainly, I will.
• 23:46
  I'll come down.
• 23:46
  So I drove down to Pittsburgh and we sat for a couple hours in the Hilton, the old Hilton Hotel, no longer there to win them now.
• 23:55
  And we said, I came home, I told my mother.
• 23:58
  So.
• 23:58
  Well, it's another name, as I just spent two hours with the guy that I want to spend the next four years with.
• 24:04
  Wow.
• 24:05
  He didn't problem.
• 24:05
  I'm, you know, they have this nil stuff now that everybody's complaining about whatnot.
• 24:10
  Back then, there was still.
• 24:11
  There was nil.
• 24:13
  And I was offered a lot of stuff by a lot of schools, and there was.
• 24:17
  Obviously wasn't legal back then, but it was around, and it was around big time.
• 24:24
  And somehow I chose not to take any of that stuff.
• 24:27
  And I went with ERA And I got a great education and a great football experience and a lot of.
• 24:33
  A lot of great memories.
• 24:35
  You.
• 24:36
  You talked about something earlier, and you.
• 24:38
  You brought it up in one of your episodes of Hanratty's Huddle that He only played nine games as a quarterback in high school football.
• 24:51
  Your 10th ever game was at Notre Dame.
• 24:56
  How does a guy, you know, how does ERA what does he see in you in nine games that convinces him to recruit you to Notre Dame?
• 25:08
  How does.
• 25:09
  How does he make that call?
• 25:11
  Well, we.
• 25:12
  We lit it up my senior year in high school, and we, you know, made everybody quite aware that Butler, they already knew that Butler had great talent up there, and they.
• 25:21
  They produce a great team every year.
• 25:23
  Our coach Bernardi was a wonderful head coach, and everybody back then really paid attention to Western Pennsylvania.
• 25:33
  If you're recruiting football, you better be in Western Pennsylvania because the quarterbacks are there, and there's a list of 100 quarterbacks that have done very well at every level.
• 25:43
  Sure.
• 25:43
  And if you want linemen, you got to come to Western Pennsylvania, you know, not some.
• 25:47
  Some running.
• 25:48
  Running backs.
• 25:48
  Yes.
• 25:49
  You know that.
• 25:52
  It's basically the, you know, the quarterbacks and Offensive line.
• 25:55
  That's what makes you your offense.
• 25:56
  You got the offensive line, then you got to throw a quarterback in there.
• 25:59
  And so that, you know, that's the deal.
• 26:02
  Well, without a doubt, you had a phenomenal college football career and then you went on to the NFL.
• 26:09
  But before we get to the NFL, I wanted to ask about your health and how things are going.
• 26:16
  Please let us know what's going on and how you're dealing with it, how everything is going.
• 26:21
  Well, it was to start from the beginning, which is not that long ago, but a year ago, I found out that, you know, just having my normal physical I have every year.
• 26:31
  And they found out a year ago last April that I had a spot on my lung.
• 26:35
  And they said, you know, don't worry about it.
• 26:37
  It's very small.
• 26:39
  Watch it and see.
• 26:40
  Six months later, it tripled and did a biopsy and found out that I have stage 4 small cell lung cancer.
• 26:49
  So I got being treated at Sloan Kettering Memorial.
• 26:53
  Sloan Kettering, which is a phenomenal hospital.
• 26:56
  Great doctors, great people and nurses are just absolutely wonderful.
• 27:00
  But it's, you know, it's one of those things.
• 27:02
  They went through all the chemo last December one.
• 27:06
  In fact, when I.
• 27:07
  The first thing I did was I found out I had it in November.
• 27:10
  Then I went to hall of fame induction in December, you know, knowing that you have the cancer, but it sort of kept it quiet to the whole family and whatnot until after the celebration.
• 27:21
  But, you know, I don't through all the chemo, and the chemo wiped out all the cancer.
• 27:27
  Then you go on immunotherapy.
• 27:30
  So they have the drug that you're supposed to take to keep it out in check.
• 27:34
  That didn't work at all right back.
• 27:38
  And I've been through two.
• 27:39
  Two drugs now that have gotten rid of it for about two months.
• 27:44
  Then it comes back.
• 27:45
  I'm on my third drug as we speak, and, you know, I feel good.
• 27:49
  I feel, you know, do basically what I've done before I knew I had cancer, but it's not as fast and not as long.
• 27:54
  So.
• 27:55
  But now I'll know next.
• 27:58
  Next Wednesday, the 16th.
• 28:00
  That's a big day because I'll know.
• 28:02
  I have an MRI that morning.
• 28:05
  Then the doctors will know if this drug that I'm on now is doing, working against the cancer.
• 28:12
  And what you expect to get is to get a drug to hold it in check for how many months, how many years?
• 28:18
  Who knows?
• 28:19
  Not two months.
• 28:20
  That's too quick.
• 28:21
  Not two drugs that, you know, did it for two Months.
• 28:23
  That's too fast.
• 28:24
  So this one, we're hoping that, you know, it keeps it away and you give you a fighting chance.
• 28:29
  But it's interesting because, you know, I've been up to Dana Farber in Boston for.
• 28:34
  And they're absolutely wonderful people also.
• 28:36
  And I hear the same thing about MD Anderson in Houston and these cancer hospitals.
• 28:41
  You walk into the hospital, like, when I go to Sloan, I go in there, and there's nobody in there with a broken leg, broken arm, or stitches in their head.
• 28:51
  Everybody there is for cancer.
• 28:52
  It's amazing when you.
• 28:55
  Before you have it, nobody goes into these hospitals, so you never really see.
• 28:58
  But then when you're involved with them.
• 29:00
  And I want to talk.
• 29:01
  I talk about a lot on the podcast, my podcast, and because I want people to know that, hey, we're all in this thing together.
• 29:09
  Yes.
• 29:10
  You know, you got to have prayer, you got to have humor, and you just gotta, you know, stay as healthy as you possibly can and just listen to your doctors.
• 29:17
  Don't try to compare your cancer to someone else's cancer because they're all different, or your drug to their drug, because they're all different.
• 29:25
  So just listen to your doctor and, you know, get good counseling and get that second opinion.
• 29:29
  And these doctors will tell you.
• 29:31
  The good doctors will tell you, please, go get a second opinion.
• 29:33
  Yeah, when I was being treated at Sloan and I told him I was thinking about going up the data Farber for a second opinion, my doctor said, fine, do that, please.
• 29:42
  You know, so they're.
• 29:42
  They're aware of all that good stuff.
• 29:44
  So it's.
• 29:45
  It's something I want to get out there to people, but they're not in this boat together.
• 29:49
  We're in a big boat.
• 29:50
  It's.
• 29:51
  We're moving along, and they're doing great research on cancer, so hopefully everything, you know, smooth out here.
• 29:57
  Well, you're right about one thing.
• 29:59
  We are all in this together.
• 30:02
  You know, my family's been affected by cancer.
• 30:04
  I lost my mom to cancer.
• 30:07
  You know, it's.
• 30:09
  Everybody knows somebody.
• 30:10
  I can't believe that.
• 30:12
  No.
• 30:12
  You know, if you don't know anybody that has battled cancer, you are a.
• 30:18
  An extraordinarily fortunate person.
• 30:27
  So now I do want to move on to the NFL.
• 30:32
  And one of the questions I have, and, you know, I don't get to speak to NFL players all that often, and I've never asked this question.
• 30:41
  I think I know the answer, but I'm going to ask it anyway.
• 30:46
  We hear a lot about the speed of the professional game versus the speed of the college game that it's not even comparable.
• 30:59
  Talk about how much faster the players are in the NFL and what that really means.
• 31:07
  I think, I suspect it's not about foot speed.
• 31:11
  Rather it's how much faster they can read a play.
• 31:15
  Or am I wrong?
• 31:16
  No, I think you hit the nail right in the head.
• 31:19
  There's not anybody running a, a 40 40, you know, everybody.
• 31:24
  The fast guys are still running four or five and when they put them in a straight sprint.
• 31:29
  But when the window of opportunity is much smaller in the pros, that quarterback is used to throwing that ball out there and throwing that completion, throwing that touchdown pass.
• 31:38
  When you know guy is wide open, you know, you don't find that because you, when the college, you may get one defensive back who you better, better watch out for this guy because he's all over the field, great
• 31:49
  hands and your ability to break on the ball.
• 31:51
  In the pros you got the best of all those guys.
• 31:53
  So they're in there.
• 31:54
  You got the two safeties that break on the ball, the cornerbacks break on the ball.
• 31:58
  So everywhere you look it's going to be very close and very minuscule windows to throw the ball to.
• 32:04
  And that's the key.
• 32:05
  It's not the speed of foot speed, it's more of the, the speed of the mind to get you in different positions.
• 32:11
  So you have to, you have to, you know, you have to trick people into just like Mel Block, the greatest cornerback ever.
• 32:19
  And I played with.
• 32:20
  Now I threw, I threw passes against male and practice all the time.
• 32:23
  So I saw probably Mel better than anybody saw him.
• 32:26
  The one thing you could do about Mel, you gotta lure him to sleep.
• 32:30
  You can't come out and just go adept us.
• 32:32
  He'll knock you down every time.
• 32:34
  Go two or three quarters and just let him go.
• 32:37
  Let him sit out there, just throw the ball over there or in the middle, just let him, you know, fall asleep.
• 32:43
  Then maybe you can get a play action, pass them.
• 32:44
  But other than that, that's the only way you could do it.
• 32:48
  How tough, how difficult was it to go from Notre Dame and the glory you experience with the Irish to Pittsburgh?
• 32:56
  I mean with Notre Dame you won a national championship in 1966, near perfect at 9 01.
• 33:03
  Then 8 and 2 as we said, 72 and 1.
• 33:07
  In college, you lost a total of four games with the Steelers.
• 33:13
  You help Chuck Noll win his first ever game as a coach in week one of the 1969 season, 16 to 13 over Detroit.
• 33:26
  And then you guys lost every other Game that year, all 13.
• 33:32
  How hard is that, man?
• 33:34
  How hard is that mentally to go out there every week and lose?
• 33:40
  Well, even, even when you see the facilities that you went from, we're from Notre Dame to the very high end facilities where you had nice showers, nice locker rooms, all that good stuff.
• 33:51
  In Pittsburgh, when we practice, we practice south park and this was out there where they had all had horseshoes, we had big field and you know what horses do.
• 34:04
  And we had a lot of guys who stumbled or fell or doe for catch and come up with horse stuff all over them.
• 34:11
  You go into the locker room, which is a small little locker room which is.
• 34:17
  Was a.
• 34:17
  They bought this house and the basement was the locker room and about four showerheads with, you know, 60 guys and yeah, the equipment room was the kitchen upstairs.
• 34:28
  And then you go up and you get your ankle safe and you go, what am I?
• 34:32
  I'm in the pros now, getting paid to do this.
• 34:33
  And these facilities are horrible.
• 34:36
  But that's when they were also building Three River Stadium, which would be, you know, ready the next year.
• 34:41
  And we played at Pitt Stadium, shared that.
• 34:44
  The Pit played there, we played there, high schools played there.
• 34:47
  That place was a.
• 34:49
  It was a disaster for the last three or four games because, you know, the rain, the mud was everywhere and it was just horrible conditions.
• 34:57
  But you saw what Chuck was doing.
• 34:59
  Chuck was really a genius because he did so.
• 35:02
  He just still doesn't get enough credit because, you know, he.
• 35:04
  The Steelers were a lot, a lot of years losing, a lot of years, 40 years before they ever won a championship and.
• 35:13
  But Chuck knew Chuck had a.
• 35:15
  He wouldn't have lasted today.
• 35:16
  Maybe it was the Rooneys, I don't know, but any other team would have fired him.
• 35:20
  When you're 1 and 8, we'll say they're looking to get rid of you right now.
• 35:25
  But the Rooneys saw something in him and we all did too.
• 35:28
  We knew Chuck was going to do it his way, but that's it.
• 35:31
  And you can see him getting rid of him, getting rid of him, getting rid of him.
• 35:34
  He didn't want him and he didn't want anybody's players.
• 35:38
  He wanted to get draft picks so he could draft his kind of player.
• 35:43
  And, you know, and when you see what Chuck did over the years, I mean, he had a lot of help.
• 35:46
  You know, Art Rooney Jr.
• 35:48
  Was a great drafter.
• 35:49
  Bill Nunn was a wonderful drafter and, you know, so he had a lot of help doing that.
• 35:53
  But they all, they all listened and talked to each other.
• 35:55
  We had some great drafts and we were like, what, one year there was four.
• 35:58
  Four hall of Famers.
• 35:59
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:01
  I think it was Lambert Swan and.
• 36:05
  And was it, was it Donnie Shell?
• 36:09
  It was four in one year.
• 36:10
  I know, yeah.
• 36:11
  It's unheard of.
• 36:13
  Yeah.
• 36:13
  But the Chuck know, he turned everything around.
• 36:16
  Pittsburgh, in Pittsburgh and he built it with the defense.
• 36:19
  You know, when I got drafted, I was driving the second round.
• 36:21
  You know, Joe Green was the first round pick.
• 36:23
  Pittsburgh went crazy.
• 36:25
  Here's this new coach.
• 36:26
  You know, he was untested because he would assist him with Shula at Baltimore back then.
• 36:31
  Right.
• 36:32
  And, and so he didn't have much of a track record.
• 36:37
  Zero track record.
• 36:38
  So then all of a sudden they take Joe Green from North Texas State in the first round in Pittsburgh was crazy because, you know, and there's this quarterback from Notre Dame, the Irish Catholic Rooneys.
• 36:47
  And, you know, it was the perfect fit.
• 36:50
  Well, you know, I'd come off a knee injury my senior year, so I.
• 36:54
  Pittsburgh coming to second round.
• 36:55
  But, you know, people didn't know Joe.
• 36:57
  I knew Joe.
• 36:58
  We went through a lot of all American things together.
• 37:00
  I knew all about him and I talked to players about.
• 37:02
  I knew what a great player.
• 37:03
  So I mean, it was a great pick by the Steeler, but Chuck knew what he wanted.
• 37:08
  When startup defense, build that defense up and, and if you, you could do it either way, you can start with the offense and build, but you have to start from inside out.
• 37:19
  You gotta build the line either on offense or on defense.
• 37:22
  You gotta start there because that's, that's your plan of attack.
• 37:26
  You don't realize that you can't always take that quarterback that you love because if you have no offensive line, you can't protect that kid.
• 37:32
  You're gonna get a kill.
• 37:34
  Yeah, my rookie year, I never got hit so many times.
• 37:37
  And so you gotta, you gotta know what you're doing in there.
• 37:40
  Just can't pick for the name.
• 37:41
  Can't do that.
• 37:45
  When you finally did make it to the NFL, you, you finally get into a game.
• 37:50
  I think your first pass, your first touchdown pass was a completion to a TD pass to a guy by the name of Earl Gross for 15 yards against Cleveland.
• 38:01
  If I, if, if I follow the story correctly, in Cleveland, right?
• 38:04
  Yeah.
• 38:05
  Yeah.
• 38:06
  What was that like to finally get into a regular season NFL game and realize your dream of playing in the NFL has come true?
• 38:16
  What was that like?
• 38:18
  Well, you know, it was delayed because back then you had the college All Star game.
• 38:23
  People don't, people don't realize Anymore.
• 38:25
  It used to be a college All Star game played in Chicago.
• 38:29
  The College All Stars against the super bowl winner.
• 38:33
  Yeah.
• 38:33
  And that.
• 38:34
  That year was the Jets.
• 38:35
  So we're gonna play the Jets.
• 38:36
  We played the jets in.
• 38:37
  In Soldiers Field.
• 38:39
  And so you are at the same time as guys are going to training camp.
• 38:44
  So we had, like, O.J.
• 38:45
  Didn't want to play, so he just held out from Buffalo so we wouldn't have to play in our game.
• 38:51
  A couple other guys did the same.
• 38:52
  Joe did the same thing.
• 38:53
  Green and, you know, so we.
• 38:55
  We lost a lot of the college players because, you know, the pros didn't really want them playing in the game, but they couldn't do anything about it because the charities in Chicago had a deal with the NFL.
• 39:05
  So, you know, they had to send as many players they possibly could.
• 39:08
  But there was a stipulation.
• 39:09
  If you didn't sign your contract, you know, you couldn't go to training camp or you couldn't go to the All Star Game.
• 39:14
  And so that's.
• 39:17
  So that puts you back about three weeks in your preparation for your team.
• 39:22
  And then we had OJ didn't want to play and bring a couple guys in from other teams to play.
• 39:28
  So they were upset because they had to leave their training camp to come to play in the.
• 39:33
  In the All Star Game.
• 39:34
  So that puts you back your.
• 39:36
  Your rookie year.
• 39:40
  You're finally making headway with the Steelers.
• 39:45
  You know, teams getting a little bit better, and then they'd go ahead.
• 39:51
  I mean, you're playing decent ball, and then they go ahead and they draft Terry Bradshaw.
• 39:59
  I know.
• 39:59
  I know that you have a good relationship with Terry.
• 40:03
  Yeah.
• 40:05
  How did that make you feel at that time?
• 40:08
  Thinking, well, you know, maybe, you know, your first year, you started five games.
• 40:14
  Your second year, you started six games.
• 40:17
  And along comes Bradshaw.
• 40:20
  You're a professional athlete, and certainly you want to compete against the best and prove that you're better than everybody else.
• 40:28
  But how difficult was it for you to see Pittsburgh go out and draft another quarterback?
• 40:34
  You had to be asking yourself, why are they doing this?
• 40:39
  You know, you're just starting your career.
• 40:40
  Why.
• 40:41
  Why do we need another quarterback?
• 40:43
  Well, that, you know, that.
• 40:45
  That never bothered me.
• 40:46
  You know, my freshman year at Notre Dame, we had four quarterbacks on the freshman team, and they signed and everybody stayed there.
• 40:54
  I mean, four guys, you know, one was all state in Virginia, one Allstate in Pennsylvania, me, one Allstate in Indiana, one Allstate in Ohio.
• 41:03
  None of us left the school.
• 41:04
  We all stayed and competed every Year.
• 41:06
  And unlike what's going on today, when they sign a quarterback, now they sign another quarterback.
• 41:10
  First quarterback leave, he's gone.
• 41:12
  Nobody wants competition, and you really bring out the best of each other.
• 41:15
  It didn't bother me at all.
• 41:16
  I mean, I knew we were going to go out in the field, and, you know, I'm not competing against him.
• 41:21
  I'm competing against me.
• 41:23
  I want to go out and do as good as I can on every play.
• 41:25
  I get the ball.
• 41:26
  So that's the whole thing.
• 41:27
  If Terry did better, fine.
• 41:29
  He deserved the plan.
• 41:30
  He and I are dear friends to this day.
• 41:31
  He calls me all the time.
• 41:32
  Then I find out how my cancer is going.
• 41:34
  Sure.
• 41:34
  And all that stuff.
• 41:35
  And we remain very close over the years.
• 41:38
  And so I knew that was never a problem.
• 41:40
  I mean, we never had a problem in the game or in practice or anything.
• 41:44
  It was the coach's decision, and you had to go out and do the best you could in practice every day.
• 41:47
  And that's, you know, that was a part of life as far as we were concerned back then, not now.
• 41:51
  But everybody wants everything given to them now.
• 41:57
  There aren't many players who can say they won a national championship and the Super Bowl.
• 42:02
  That's got to be pretty cool.
• 42:04
  I mean, you were with the Steelers in 74 and 75.
• 42:07
  You didn't get much playing time, but you were a part of a team that won two Super Bowls.
• 42:12
  Talk about that ride, what your role was with those teams and what that's like.
• 42:18
  Well, it's wonderful.
• 42:19
  I mean, because there's only one champion every year in college and in pros.
• 42:26
  So to be the top of your game on all those, you know, three occasions is.
• 42:31
  It is something you dream about.
• 42:34
  That doesn't happen many times.
• 42:36
  I don't know how many people have ever done it, but it doesn't have many times.
• 42:39
  And the other thing, the.
• 42:41
  The other side of the stick.
• 42:43
  We were 1 in 13 my first year.
• 42:47
  My last year with Tampa Bay, 0 and 14.
• 42:52
  Two Super Bowls wedged in the middle.
• 42:54
  No one saw the NFL like I did.
• 42:57
  Well, I was just going there, you know.
• 42:59
  I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about your experience with Tampa.
• 43:03
  I mean, what was that like?
• 43:04
  Like you said, you went from a team that won a national college championship to a team that went one in 13, then won a Super bowl, and now you go to an expansion team that winds up O and
• 43:19
  14.
• 43:19
  Now, granted, I don't think you were there the whole season, but still, you.
• 43:24
  You went from Pittsburgh to Tampa.
• 43:27
  And then you had to sit behind Steve Spurrier.
• 43:29
  What was that experience you had?
• 43:31
  The, you know, the national championship, then two Super Bowls, then you go to Tampa.
• 43:36
  And it was interesting because you worked out in shorts.
• 43:40
  You know, you on the field, it was sunny with 80 degrees and you were out there throwing a ball around with shorts on, this T shirt and I think pretty nice there.
• 43:50
  And Steve was.
• 43:51
  Ever became very good friends.
• 43:53
  And it was interesting because it was really a bad team.
• 43:57
  And I knew in my mind that this is it for me.
• 44:00
  You know, I, I wanted to say, I thought to myself it'd be interesting to go with my experience with what, you know, Aaron let me call a lot of plays at the line of scrimmage.
• 44:10
  In college, especially my, my last year is in Pittsburgh.
• 44:15
  We called every play from, from either the huddle or the line scrimmage.
• 44:19
  So we, we did everything there.
• 44:20
  So you, you really learn the ins and outs of all the, of the running game and your passing game and where you want to attack people and how you're going to attack people and how the defense is setting
• 44:29
  up and how they're going to blitz and they're not going to blitz.
• 44:32
  Cover two, cover three, cover four, whatever.
• 44:34
  And so I figured it's me interesting going down to a young team and you know, try to instill these little things in, in your team.
• 44:43
  Then when I got there, I went, wow, this is a project.
• 44:47
  And I said to myself, it's my eighth year.
• 44:50
  I've had a lot of injuries.
• 44:52
  Nothing that's going to be debilitating, but a lot of next here, there, whatever, a couple operations, whatnot.
• 44:59
  But, you know, I was still going to have a link.
• 45:01
  Pretty, pretty healthy.
• 45:02
  I said, but this is it.
• 45:04
  At that time, you couldn't make enough money to be a generational money.
• 45:10
  I mean, nowadays, these kids can play five years, they don't have to work a day in their life if they do the right things.
• 45:14
  Back then you had, you know, you hate to go to a job.
• 45:17
  First job Interview when you're 35 years old, you know, that doesn't work that way.
• 45:22
  So I was 29, I retired early and I just, I had enough.
• 45:25
  You know, I was tired of playing football because I played it since fourth grade every year.
• 45:31
  And so that's a lot of time and warriors on there.
• 45:34
  People see the games and they see the glory and all that, but they don't see the practice, they don't see the injury, they don't see the rehab and all that stuff.
• 45:40
  That sort of Wears you down emotionally and physically.
• 45:43
  And you want to do it.
• 45:44
  You want to go back and start all over again, health wise.
• 45:47
  If you're a broken leg or knee operation, you know, you started to run again, learn how to run, you know, so there's a lot of things weighs on your mind.
• 45:57
  Give us, give us an inside look, if you can, at the locker room, comparing a successful team like Notre Dame in 66 or your entire career at Notre Dame, then to the super bowl champion Steelers and then to
• 46:15
  a team that goes, that doesn't win a game.
• 46:18
  How, what are the dynamics in the locker room?
• 46:20
  How is the locker room different?
• 46:22
  It's not because you have grown men playing a kid's game and grown men still like to snap one another with a, with a towel like you go with a kid or stealing someone's shampoo or turn their hot water
• 46:38
  cold while they're rinsing their face off and throwing water over the top of the, of the, of the stall and drowning them there.
• 46:50
  It's that, you know, you're, you're playing a kid's game and you have, you know, you got to be part kid.
• 46:55
  And Even though you're 30, 35 years old, whatever, you still have that mentality to you, which is good.
• 46:59
  It keeps you young.
• 47:01
  And it was the same thing whether you win or losing.
• 47:05
  When you're losing, you can't get down too much because you want to win.
• 47:09
  So you have to keep that good frame of mind where next week is going to be the one, you know.
• 47:17
  You know, when I look back at your career, something struck me.
• 47:21
  You got to play for three legends.
• 47:27
  Eric Parsigian, Chuck Noel and John McKay.
• 47:32
  Three legends.
• 47:34
  Pick the first two.
• 47:35
  Yes.
• 47:36
  The, the third legend I would put in there would be my high school coach, Art Bernardi, okay?
• 47:42
  Butler High School.
• 47:43
  He's in the coaches, National Coaches hall of Fame.
• 47:46
  And he's the one who produced 62 kids in, in a 20 year period who went division one.
• 47:52
  That's not including, you know, the, back then, the small schools, Division 2 or 3 school, you know, John was different, okay?
• 47:59
  John was more, I just think the same thing because I see John out there some, the sideline of Southern Cal, you know, that gray hair, just, they're stoic.
• 48:09
  And you realize, wait a minute, I got to play under him.
• 48:12
  He knew no football.
• 48:15
  It's really interesting because he, he had the pick of the west coast kids.
• 48:20
  When you think about it, there's no Stanford, there's no Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Orange State, you know, UCL he has more basketball and football.
• 48:28
  And so he got to choose of all these.
• 48:30
  He had O.J.
• 48:31
  In the, in a junior college.
• 48:33
  Stockpiling him in a junior college.
• 48:35
  And he did that with a lot of kids.
• 48:37
  He put all these kids out of field, you know, make sure the ball got to the field, these guys to play.
• 48:43
  And, and you know, I, I'm not, you know, John was a fun guy.
• 48:46
  I like John and.
• 48:48
  But I don't think he was ever would be included in my, in my, in my choice of my top three coaches, put it that way.
• 48:58
  Very, very interesting.
• 49:00
  Something else unique about your career.
• 49:04
  You got to play, as you talked about, in the college football All Star game, a game that's dear to my heart, having just written the book about, about the series, College All Stars versus NFL Champions.
• 49:18
  You played on both sides of the ball, but you played also one of those.
• 49:22
  What?
• 49:23
  Well, one of those sides was with the Steelers in 1976.
• 49:28
  You were on the field when Pete Roselle called the game.
• 49:33
  What you talk about it on your podcast, too.
• 49:36
  Hanratty's Huddle.
• 49:37
  What was that experience like?
• 49:40
  That was the most incredible evening ever.
• 49:44
  It was a torrential downpour.
• 49:47
  It was.
• 49:48
  You could not.
• 49:49
  I'm come to the line of screaming.
• 49:50
  I couldn't see my receiver.
• 49:52
  It was that bad.
• 49:53
  I mean, the ball, you had to grab it with both hands when the center snapped it.
• 49:58
  And what the hell are you going to do with it?
• 49:59
  I mean, the rain is stretching you and your hands are slick.
• 50:03
  It was a horrible night.
• 50:05
  And it was one of those things.
• 50:08
  We, you know, we got the halftime, then the fans came down and tore the goal post down and they were sliding all over the field, having a hell of a good time.
• 50:16
  I wouldn't have wanted to fly around with them.
• 50:19
  Luckily, the NFL said, game over.
• 50:22
  Too many.
• 50:23
  You know, this is a chance.
• 50:24
  Everybody's going to get hurt.
• 50:25
  So the game ended in that same storm.
• 50:29
  The next week we played in Philadelphia, and that followed us up with the same thing there.
• 50:33
  Ben Eagle in the preseason game.
• 50:36
  That storm followed me from Chicago out to Philadelphia.
• 50:39
  It was just absolutely insanity to play in a game like that.
• 50:44
  There was a time and a place for the College All Star Game.
• 50:48
  Heck, the College All Stars won nine of the 42 games.
• 50:52
  It's just under 25% of the games, of course, none after 1963.
• 50:58
  But, you know, and, and the pros really dominated from 1963 until 1976.
• 51:07
  Do you think there is any possibility at all that a team of College All Stars could compete today?
• 51:15
  I don't.
• 51:16
  No.
• 51:16
  No way.
• 51:17
  I mean, you're playing against men.
• 51:19
  These guys, 28, 35 years old.
• 51:22
  They have families, they have bills to pay.
• 51:24
  They kind of, you know, they've done this for a long time.
• 51:27
  They know all the tricks in the trade.
• 51:29
  Now, you may be competitive, but you're not going to beat them.
• 51:32
  And you got to realize it was still a preseason game for the pros.
• 51:35
  Right?
• 51:36
  Right.
• 51:36
  So they're playing a lot of rookies.
• 51:37
  So any games that were close, if you look at who was on both sides of the ball, you know, it wasn't just like, you know, play the jets.
• 51:44
  But Joe didn't play.
• 51:45
  Babe Pulley was quarterback.
• 51:47
  You know, Joe said, I'm not playing tonight in this game.
• 51:51
  And so that there's a lot of, you know, you sort of take that with a grain of salt because there are so many guys that they're looking at.
• 51:59
  Mm.
• 52:01
  I want to read this question that I wrote out.
• 52:04
  Might be a very elementary question for you, but I think there are people out there who would.
• 52:08
  Who would.
• 52:09
  Who would like to hear this in regards to a quarterback.
• 52:14
  Do you think today's quarterback has control.
• 52:17
  Today's quarterback has control of the game like you did when you played?
• 52:23
  And what I mean by that is I think you called the majority of your plays.
• 52:29
  You even said earlier that you called the plays from the huddle.
• 52:33
  You ran the huddle.
• 52:34
  You were the CEO when you were in there, out on the field today.
• 52:39
  The calls come in from the sidelines, and the quarterback, outside of the audible, just does what the OC or the head coach tells them to do.
• 52:50
  How is the game changed from that perspective?
• 52:53
  Well, I think they.
• 52:54
  I think they're really complicating the game.
• 52:58
  You know, we did.
• 52:59
  We.
• 53:00
  We called the place from your first day in camp, the Steelers.
• 53:04
  You called your own play.
• 53:05
  You know, you got.
• 53:05
  You study your playbook and you learn to play and you practice.
• 53:09
  You sort of run through this stuff.
• 53:10
  And the coaches obviously would come in huddle and correct you or whatever, and.
• 53:14
  But you got.
• 53:15
  You got to do it yourself.
• 53:17
  And, And.
• 53:19
  And really got to the point where, you know, we had maybe half a dozen audible.
• 53:23
  So my rookie year, I can remember to this day, we're playing up in Green Bay, and there were the two defensive tackles, and they were really wide, and there was a hole, unbelievable up the middle, and we didn't
• 53:36
  have an honorable to get to that spot.
• 53:40
  I just called a play hoping that everyone will pick it up.
• 53:45
  And I think, you know, then, back then, if you any.
• 53:48
  Brown was always the.
• 53:50
  The live color.
• 53:51
  You know, you always started your Kaden Blue 42 or something like that.
• 53:54
  As soon as they heard brown, they knew audible was coming the next play.
• 53:58
  So I just called the play right at the middle.
• 54:01
  Boom.
• 54:01
  About 18 yard gain.
• 54:03
  Then I did it again.
• 54:04
  We come up to satellite.
• 54:05
  Chuck says, what you do?
• 54:07
  You know, I said, you know, I didn't know.
• 54:09
  But you know this.
• 54:10
  We're gaping holes in there.
• 54:12
  That's when we expanded our audible system.
• 54:15
  Found out that these big linemen in front of you, pretty damn smart, they can pick it up really quick.
• 54:22
  So we could almost audible to our whole playbook in about a year and a half.
• 54:26
  And.
• 54:27
  And you sort of kept adding that stuff every week.
• 54:30
  So everybody sort of get used to you hear those numbers.
• 54:33
  But nowadays when you hear a guy and call a play, it's.
• 54:40
  It's almost takes too much time.
• 54:42
  The clock's going to run out.
• 54:43
  Yeah, that's the coach calling the play of the quarterback.
• 54:46
  Now the quarterback's gonna give the play to the.
• 54:49
  To the guys in the huddle.
• 54:51
  And I call like if I say get in the huddle, I say full right split 62 basic boom.
• 54:58
  That tells six guys where they have to go.
• 55:01
  And you're only listening.
• 55:02
  And if you're one of those guys,.
• 55:03
  You're only listening for the key words for your position, right?
• 55:07
  Well, you got to know everybody's position because you've got to go and block for everybody.
• 55:13
  If I'm throwing a pass to my left and the guy's coming across the middle, the guy on the right better be going down there in case this guy catches.
• 55:18
  He complaints and blocks.
• 55:19
  Everybody's got to know everything.
• 55:20
  Yeah, and what they're.
• 55:21
  They flop around too.
• 55:22
  So they have to know everybody's position.
• 55:25
  But nowadays that play takes 10 seconds to call.
• 55:31
  I can call it in three seconds.
• 55:34
  Then she gives me seven seconds to check the line of scrimmage and look at the defense.
• 55:40
  Several seconds more of time you really need.
• 55:43
  And I just.
• 55:44
  And that's the way our whole system was.
• 55:47
  But today it's so difficult.
• 55:49
  I mean, they're called.
• 55:49
  It's like they're calling like every pos.
• 55:51
  I haven't talked to a coach about this, but looks like they're calling every position what they should do.
• 55:57
  Right?
• 55:58
  That's.
• 55:58
  And that's what I was referring to.
• 56:00
  Just back there, my system.
• 56:03
  I call one play and all these guys know what they do on that play, right?
• 56:07
  And we have, you know, a playbook that's you know, two inches thick, you know, so it's.
• 56:11
  There's a lot of stuff involved in there.
• 56:13
  So there's a lot of study, but a lot of stuff is, you know, you got to learn.
• 56:19
  Well, before we wrap up, I got two last questions for you.
• 56:23
  One, tell us about Hanratty's Huddle.
• 56:25
  I love it.
• 56:26
  It is such a fun podcast.
• 56:28
  Kudos to you.
• 56:29
  I enjoy listening.
• 56:31
  It is something that Dave Tiromeo and I started in Rob Adams.
• 56:36
  The three of us started this about two years ago.
• 56:39
  And, you know, we're expanding it.
• 56:41
  You know, we're.
• 56:42
  We.
• 56:42
  We loved on it.
• 56:43
  We do it every week.
• 56:45
  And you can go to Spotify and easily pick up.
• 56:48
  And if you want to see a real listen to a really couple good ones with two of them with Bradshaw.
• 56:53
  And it was so long.
• 56:55
  It's only.
• 56:55
  It's a half hour show that we went for.
• 56:58
  We went for Terry and I got on.
• 57:00
  We just started talking like you and I are talking, and the other two guys didn't say a word.
• 57:05
  But we had these stories going back and forth and we just kept going.
• 57:08
  It was all of a sudden an hour and a half.
• 57:10
  Yeah.
• 57:12
  So they cut it down to two shows, but there's a lot of humor in there.
• 57:15
  It's really, really fun to do.
• 57:17
  And so we're going to have more and more guys.
• 57:18
  We've got Pete Bakwa coming on next week, Notre Dame, and.
• 57:24
  But it's something we, you know, we all enjoy.
• 57:27
  And it's.
• 57:28
  We do a lot of Notre Dame, a lot of Steeler, obviously, and what we do, all sports.
• 57:33
  You know, I can't do hockey because I won't lie to anybody.
• 57:36
  I don't know a damn thing about hockey, but the other two guys are really good at hockey.
• 57:39
  So I just sort of sit in the background, the hockey area.
• 57:42
  So, you know, we don't want to be controversial, but we want to tell the truth.
• 57:46
  What we think is it third situation?
• 57:49
  We don't swear.
• 57:50
  We don't tell dirty jokes.
• 57:51
  It's sort of, you know, nice and everybody can listen.
• 57:55
  So we have a lot of good humor, too.
• 57:57
  You know, a lot of guys on the.
• 57:58
  We got a bunch of guys coming on this fall, so it's going to be even more top shelf, I think.
• 58:05
  Go to Spotify.
• 58:06
  Yeah.
• 58:06
  And you tell good stories.
• 58:08
  I recall the one story where you were talking about visiting your daughter at Notre Dame, and she had two friends that were on the football team, and you took them to lunch and these two guys barely ate their
• 58:20
  food.
• 58:21
  And at the end you were like, guys, were you not hungry?
• 58:25
  And they're like, yeah, we don't know if we're allowed to eat this because it could be considered a gift from.
• 58:31
  An alumni giving player money.
• 58:34
  And then it was the two linemen.
• 58:36
  These guys are 300 pounder.
• 58:38
  Wow.
• 58:38
  And we were.
• 58:39
  They were coming to lunch with my daughter and I and they just sort of picked their food.
• 58:45
  I'm looking at what's good.
• 58:47
  And they left.
• 58:48
  And I asked my daughter, I said, don't they eat?
• 58:51
  Yeah, they were, they were concerned that they weren't allowed to accept this if they get in trouble.
• 58:56
  That's just.
• 58:58
  That's just French fries.
• 59:00
  Maybe the French fries would have put them over the top.
• 59:04
  That's just nuts.
• 59:05
  Well, let's wrap it up with this.
• 59:06
  Terry, this has been such a great conversation.
• 59:10
  Thank you so much for joining me.
• 59:12
  But I do have to ask this.
• 59:14
  Whether it's Notre Dame, the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, what is your high school?
• 59:22
  What is your greatest memory from your football career?
• 59:27
  Wow.
• 59:28
  Wow.
• 59:29
  One of the great ones was the first super bowl in, in New Orleans.
• 59:37
  We beat the, the Vikings and it was a horrible cold day.
• 59:43
  And after the game, and they have the little platform there where the louser stands with the owner and the coach and the MVP or whatever it is.
• 59:51
  And to see Art Rooney, the great Art Rooney and started the team, you know, 19, what was it, 1932 or something like that.
• 1:00:01
  And 2500 bucks he paid for the, for the franchise.
• 1:00:06
  And to see that proud old Irishman up there and just with that cigar and just as humble a man as you could ever expect.
• 1:00:14
  Just an absolutely wonderful family.
• 1:00:16
  And it goes with his son Dan, the late Dan, running down already is the grandson, runs the team now.
• 1:00:24
  But just to see him up there after 40 years of losing, to see his proud smile, that Irish smile up there, and it was just absolutely wonderful.
• 1:00:33
  Really was.
• 1:00:34
  That's awesome.
• 1:00:35
  That's awesome.
• 1:00:36
  Well, Terry, again, thank you for taking time out of your day to spend with me and, you know, this has been terrific.
• 1:00:43
  Please keep us updated with your health.
• 1:00:46
  Very interested to know and yeah, thank you for joining me on Sports Forgotten Heroes.
• 1:00:51
  You've been a terrific guest.
• 1:00:53
  Well, thank you.
• 1:00:53
  You got my number, so don't be bashing.
• 1:00:56
  You got it.
• 1:00:56
  I will.
• 1:00:57
  I will call back.
• 1:00:59
  For his career with Notre dame, Hanratty completed 304 of 550 passes for 4,152 yards, and he threw for 27 touchdowns.
• 1:01:12
  He also rushed for 586 yards and scored 16 touchdowns on the ground in the NFL.
• 1:01:19
  Hanratty played eight seasons, completed 165 of 431 passes for 2,510 yards and he threw for 24 touchdowns.
• 1:01:33
  Back to college.
• 1:01:34
  Just this past year, 2025, Hanratty was.
• 1:01:38
  Inducted into the College Football hall of Fame.
• 1:01:43
  Thanks again to Terry for joining and thanks to all of you for tuning in.
• 1:01:47
  And I'll see you next time on Sports Forgotten Heroes.