Latest / Credlin / Credlin | 31 August

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Credlin | 31 August · Credlin

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Peter Credlin, live from News 24.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Good evening, welcome to the program. Here's what's coming up
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: tonight on a very big episode of Cridland. An exclusive
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: report tonight into three senior AFP counter-terrorism commanders who warned
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: of grave terror risks before Bondi in a secret internal
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: memo to AFP senior command. Now, it's been revealed tonight's
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: News 24 after we got our hands on a copy
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: of a submission to the Royal Commission. It reeks to me,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: confirmation today too, that no politicians... were called to give
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: evidence before the Royal Commission, despite former Royal Commissions putting
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: plenty of Prime Ministers and Ministers in the stand. 15
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: dead Australians, our worst ever terror attack, and no one
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: senior has really given evidence to the Commission. My investigation tonight. Plus,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: that emphatic weekend win for One Nation out of the
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: WA CETA's secret harbour was held by Labor. Not anymore.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: This is yet another demonstration of One Nation's rise. It's
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: no longer a protest vote. As the Prime Minister today
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: started to get very nasty in relation to Pauline Hanson.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Two polls in one day as well, showcasing, yes, we're
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: worried about cost of living, but absolutely migration and debt
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: as well too. One nation back on top. And Pauline Hanson,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: it's all about her today, isn't it? At your lawn today,
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: regional Victoria committing to resurrect Latrobe Valley power stations and
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: jobs for communities down there.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: I don't take any note of what he says. I
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: think he's a pathetic Prime Minister. He's not the leader
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: of this nation.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: And they're all scared.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: They're scared because now we've won a safe Labor seat.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Pauline Hanson with fire in her belly. We'll get to that.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: But first, you think the whole point of the Royal
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Commission looking into the worst terror attack in our history
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: would be about what went wrong. The security and intelligence
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: failure is that might have prevented the massacre of 15
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: innocent Australians on Bondi Beach last December. And not just
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: officers on the front line that fateful day, but the
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: whole system, the whole chain of command, state and federal,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: right the way to the top, with particular emphasis on
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: the work of counter-terrorism police. So it wouldn't shock you
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: tonight to learn that this may not have happened, that
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: some experts who should have been called to give evidence
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: were never called. The documents alleging critical capability gaps do
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: not appear to have ever been examined. If the Royal
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Commission has not heard all the critical evidence, then either
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: this is just woefully inadequate work by the Royal Commission
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: or the unthinkable. That by not calling the right people,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: the Royal Commission leaves itself open to claims of a cover-up. Now,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: what I am about to expose tonight is that serious.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I have with me a submission to the Royal Commission
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: from a former AFP officer with specialist counter-terrorism experience who
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: says they did not have the resources they needed to
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: keep Australians safe. Worse than that, this counter-terrorism expert claims
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: that 18 months before the Bondi massacre, AFP bosses were
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: warned in an explosive brief that critical staffing shortages were
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: were putting lives at risk. This senior officer, a man
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: who knew all about the way our security and intelligence
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: agencies had handled or not handled Islamist extremism in the
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: wake of the October 7 atrocity, has offered repeatedly to
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: give evidence to the Royal Commission. Over many months, he's
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: made contact with the Commission directly. So keen has he
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: been to give evidence about what he knew prior to Bondi.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: A month ago, he even lodged a written submission. And
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: yet last week, the commission was closed without ever hearing
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: from him.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: I am satisfied that I am currently in a position
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: to give a full and fair account of the term
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: of reference which asks whether, in relation to the Bondi-Harnaker attack,
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: our intelligence and our law enforcement agencies operated or performed
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: to maximum effectiveness.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: You will be shocked when I reveal now who has
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: not been called publicly by the Royal Commission to give
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: evidence and why, now that I've carefully read this submission
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: from a former counter-terrorism expert, this whistleblower, why the whole
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Royal Commission process has been handled the way it has.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Remember this man, until recently, an Australian Federal Police counter-terrorism commander,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: after calling Royal Commission staff over many, many months, hoping
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: to assist, was eventually invited to make a written submission.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: And yet, despite the explosive information in this submission, he
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: was never called and put under oath. What's contained in
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: his submission, as I said, is explosive. Perhaps most importantly,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: it finally gives us some insight into the contents of
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: an absolutely crucial brief from counter-terrorism police to the top
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: AFP command written in May 2024 that warned of critical
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: shortages in counter-terrorism capability and the risks that this then
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: posed to the Australian community. This AFP brief, this internal memo,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: has been the subject of huge political and legal wrangling post-Bondi. Indeed,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: it was the day after the Bondi attack on 15
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: December last year that the existence of this memo was
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: first made public in a report in the Australian newspaper.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: The following day, 16 December, Liberal Senator Jonathan Duniam sought
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: to access the memo via an FOI. Two months later,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: in Senate estimates in February this year, Duniam pursued the
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: AFP over the contents of this memo. And it led
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: to a frustrating and drawn-out back and forth.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Was there a report of this nature commissioned?
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: Senator, a couple of things I can correct the record
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: on there. That brief did not formally make its way
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: to me. There were some inaccuracies within that brief at
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: the commander level, which.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Meant it didn't get beyond.
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: assistant commissioner level and indeed there was conversations internally with
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: the chief financial officer to work through some of the
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: discrepancies and misunderstandings that were in that brief but the
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: coup may like to add to that.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Well back and forth it went but Duniam kept at
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: it pursuing the AFP again in the May Senate hearings.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: On this we were told at the last estimates that
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: this document effectively.
• 7:26
  Speaker 6: Had no value.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: It was based on errors, wrong assumptions around budgeting, and
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: it didn't make it to the AFP governance levels. So
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: it evaporated effectively, I think was the term I used
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: last time. How is that relevant to the content of
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: a document which, according to the evidence last time, is
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: somehow now relevant to the IRC?
• 7:50
  Speaker 7: And again, very difficult on what... what instructions I've received
• 7:54
  Speaker 7: around what we can and can't talk about. But I
• 7:57
  Speaker 7: can say that resourcing is an issue. This document relates
• 8:03
  Speaker 7: to resourcing. And so I really want to be helpful
• 8:07
  Speaker 7: here because there is an explanation here that we can provide.
• 8:11
  Speaker 7: given it's before the Royal Commission, likely. I'm not in
• 8:17
  Speaker 7: a position to go into any detail on that document.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Could I invite you to take it on notice?
• 8:21
  Speaker 7: I'm happy to do that and we'll get legal advice
• 8:23
  Speaker 7: on what we can reply.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Well, was it before the Royal Commission? Is it before
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: the Royal Commission? Now, eventually in July, Daniem got a
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: response to that FOI request from December last year. Access
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: to this memo was rejected. Well, now we know why,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: because now that I've got the submission to the Royal
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Commission by one of the AFP officers who wrote that memo,
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: we finally find out just how explosive it really is.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: So here's what I can reveal to you tonight. The
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: three senior AFP officers commanders wrote a memo to the
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: AFP leadership that warned more than a year before Bondi
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: that there were critical issues with counterterrorism capability. These officers
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: demanded that the AFP senior executives urgently address their concerns
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: because they said sustained pressure on the counter-terrorism function posed
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: a direct risk to the ability of counter-terrorism command and
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: the AFP more broadly to meet Australia's national security requirements. Now,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: I'm told that memo, that bombshell memo, was never acted upon.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: We know it certainly went to an assistant commissioner and
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: You saw Stephen Nutt there at Estimates admitting that much.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: And it most likely went on to the then Deputy Commissioner,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: as discovered by Senator Duddy in Estimates. But now we
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: know what it said, because this is now in this
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: submission to the Royal Commission. The memo detailed how the
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: AFP's counter-terrorism capability had materialised. degraded. And for the first time,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: I can now publicly share with you the specific details.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: That there had been a 25% shortfall in overall staffing.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Of particular relevance to Bondi, a massive 38% shortfall in
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: New South Wales. that there were unsustainable leadership vacancies, that
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: there was seemingly an alarming decision of the National Security Committee,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: so a decision taken by the Prime Minister and senior
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: ministers to stop the AFP from requesting any additional resources
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: due to budget constraints. Remember, this was back in May 2024,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: almost 18 months before Bondi, so plenty of time to
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: remedy the defects. Then Bondi happened, and the AFP has
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: been trying to bury this memo ever since. As I
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: said earlier, the Coalition's Home Affairs Spokesman, Senator Jonathan Duniam,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: has doggedly pursued this memo. He'll join me later tonight
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: to discuss these findings. But here's the key question which
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: the Royal Commission has not publicly addressed. Why was no
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: action taken by the AFP in response to this clear
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: warning about gaps in their ability to combat terrorists? Even
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: more importantly, why is the Royal Commission not called the
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: senior AFP counter-terrorism commander who volunteered repeatedly to appear before
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: the Commission before he then wrote this detailed submission? Now
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: that we know that the Commission had detailed evidence about
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: police and intelligence failures, shutting down public hearings last week, well,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: that looks premature, doesn't it? But it gets worse. Put
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: this whistleblower, this former counterterrorism expert to one side for
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: a moment. It's extraordinary bordering on bizarre evidence that the
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Royal Commission closed down last week without taking public evidence
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: from any senior politicians about what role they had in
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: and around our nation's worst ever terror event. Now, how
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: is that? The robo-debt Royal Commission, well, it heard evidence
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: from two former prime ministers, three other ministers. The Royal
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Commission into Union Corruption, it heard from a former prime
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: minister and a leader of the opposition. Even the Pink
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Bats Royal Commission heard evidence from a former prime minister
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: and two ex-ministers. And 15 dead Australians as a result
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: of an alleged Islamist inspired terror attack. And not one
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: politician is put on the stand to be asked about
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: whether they did enough to prevent it. We have a
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: system of responsible government in this country. that ultimately the
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: buck stops with our elected leaders. And yet no one
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: of them, not one, has faced questioning over resourcing for
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: our intelligence and police agencies. Not asked about budget cuts,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: allegations that government decisions shifted the focus away from Islamic
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: extremism to far-right extremism. Not one. These are all things
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: that should be tested by the Royal Commission, but not
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: one of those people in charge has been called to
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: give public evidence. But here's what shocked me most of all.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: The Royal Commission closed hearings last week, and do you
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: know what? It never called AFP Commissioner Chrissie Barrett to
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: give evidence. The boss of the Australian Federal Police was
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: never called to publicly give evidence. Only one senior AFP
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: officer was called to give evidence publicly. That was Assistant
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Commissioner Stephen Nutt. And he was in and out of
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: the witness stand in 38 minutes. 38 minutes flat, that's it,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: to interrogate the actions of federal police about a day
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: where 15 Australians were slaughtered on a beach in Sydney.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Do you know that Netball Australia's appearance at the Royal Commission,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Netball Australia, was about as long as the only senior
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: AFP officer we heard from? How does the CEO of
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Netball Australia get called to give evidence, but not Chrissie Barrett,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: the head of the Australian Federal Police? Now, I've been
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: around Canberra a long time. This reeks to me. Unless
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: this May 2024 memo is fully investigated, the Royal Commission
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: leaves itself wide open to claims it's nothing more than
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: a sham inquiry. The inquiry you have when you don't
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: want to have an inquiry because the Prime Minister was
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: dragged kicking and screaming to do something that should have
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: been an immediate response to what happened last December at Bondi.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: No less an authority than former AFP boss, the highly
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: respected Mick Kelty, Well, he's gone public and called for
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: the release of this memo. To salvage any credibility, the
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Bondi Royal Commission must be reopened to fully explore all
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: the possible failings that this submission from a former senior
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: AFP officer has now revealed. The funding and the staffing
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: cover-ups that claimed political instructions to focus on white supremacists
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: rather than Islamists. It's all good and well to hear
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: from the victims of the massacre who certainly needed to
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: tell their stories. But the whole point of this Royal
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Commission was to try and ensure that this never happens again.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: But if it doesn't want to get to the truth,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: then we won't hear it. And if we don't get
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: the truth, then the mistakes of Bondi are very likely
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: to be repeated. And that would not only dishonour the dead,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: but it will also condemn those of us living to
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: an Australia where terror only increases. All right, we'll get
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: the headlines in a moment out of camera, but this afternoon,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: the AFP provided me with a response to a series
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: of questions I put to them today saying that, and
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I quote, the Royal Commission has received submissions and heard
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: evidence from numerous parties. It would not be appropriate for
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: the AFP to comment publicly on these submissions or evidence
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: as the Royal Commission is ongoing and is yet to
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: deliver its final report. The spokesman went on to say
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: this should not be taken as agreement with any statement
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: or assertion made in the referenced submission. The AFP did
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: confirm to me, however, that AFP Commissioner Chrissie Barrett did
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: not give evidence to the Royal Commission. The Royal Commission
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: itself also responded late this afternoon as to why the
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: author of this report has not been called, saying witnesses
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: are selected based on various considerations, a key one being
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: the relevance of their evidence to the issues being explored
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: at a particular hearing. They would not comment on this
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: individual submission. All right, let's get the headlines now from Canberra.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Our reporter, Ruben Spargo.
• 17:20
  Speaker 6: Good evening.
• 17:20
  Speaker 8: One Nation is vowing to target Labor seats after its
• 17:24
  Speaker 8: stunning by-election win in Western Australia. The minor party secured
• 17:28
  Speaker 8: an 18% swing in the once safe Labor seat of
• 17:31
  Speaker 8: Secret Harbour. Pauline Hanson now has her sights set on Victoria.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: You have to put out.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Your policies, you have to encourage people to give us
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: a chance to represent them because what you've had in
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: this state for a long time has not worked.
• 17:45
  Speaker 8: One Nation has also reclaimed its mantle as Australia's most
• 17:48
  Speaker 8: popular political party, according to the latest news poll published
• 17:52
  Speaker 8: in The Australian. Pauline Hanson is accusing the Prime Minister
• 17:55
  Speaker 8: of fuelling political violence. Anthony Albanese labelled One Nation dangerous
• 18:00
  Speaker 8: and a threat to the country on Sunday.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: The Prime Minister.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Come out and say those things, it.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Was uncalled for.
• 18:06
  Speaker 8: The One Nation leader says she is increasingly receiving death threats.
• 18:10
  Speaker 8: Australians could soon have a right to ask big tech
• 18:12
  Speaker 8: companies to delete their personal data rather than retain it.
• 18:16
  Speaker 8: Social media and search platforms may also face a new
• 18:19
  Speaker 8: fair and reasonable test, limiting them to collecting only information
• 18:23
  Speaker 8: they genuinely need under a suite of proposed reforms.
• 18:27
  Speaker 9: We would envisage that there would be high penalties here.
• 18:31
  Speaker 9: This is a government that takes very seriously the incentivising
• 18:36
  Speaker 9: nature of having high penalties.
• 18:38
  Speaker 8: The government is aiming to introduce the legislation to Parliament
• 18:41
  Speaker 8: by the end of 2026.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: I'll come back to the issue of the Bombshell Royal
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Commission submission, that memo, and the recommendations from a former
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: senior AFP police commander in a moment. But to other
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: political news over the weekend and what's been called this
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: orange tsunami that's swept across the Nullarbor to the coastal
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: seat of Secret Harbour in Western Australia. It's continuing the
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: trend of One Nation and the juggernaut that certainly has
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: got people worried, certainly even in Labor now. One Nation
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: candidate there, the local gym owner Luke Hurtigan, attracted 39%
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: of first preference votes and led 54-46 to PP when
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: counting paused on Saturday night. Here to talk us through
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: the political ramifications of it all, News 24 contributor and host,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Chris Ullman, who joins me now from the beautiful place
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: of Darwin. Well, former Labor Minister Joel Fitzgibbon, I mean,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: he's fought One Nation in his own old seat of Hunter.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: He summed it up pretty well today, Chris. Let's listen.
• 19:42
  Speaker 10: I think we'll see a repeat of Secret Harbour in
• 19:47
  Speaker 10: the coming Victorian election. I think we'll see... it again
• 19:50
  Speaker 10: in the New South Wales election in March of next year.
• 19:53
  Speaker 10: And unless they make some really big mistakes, that is
• 19:57
  Speaker 10: One Nation, I believe One Nation will be alive and
• 20:01
  Speaker 10: well at the time of the 2028 federal election.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: OK, I'm not so sure he's right about Victoria, Chris.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: I think they will win seats. But I think One
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Nation's real target up next is New South Wales. I mean,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: they announced a cracking leader for the party in New
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: South Wales just the other day. And I do think
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Joel's right. One Nation's a real threat now to Labor seats.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: He saw it in Hunter. And now we're seeing it,
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: of course, in Western Australia on the weekend.
• 20:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Peter, of course, the candidate they announced, which is
• 20:33
  Speaker 6: Mark Newman, the former Trade Commissioner, was in the seat
• 20:36
  Speaker 6: of Cessnock, which is the New South Wales equivalent or
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: close to it of the seat of Hunter, which Joel
• 20:40
  Speaker 6: Fitzgibbon represented. And if you look across the board at
• 20:44
  Speaker 6: things that might fall in the federal election, the seats
• 20:46
  Speaker 6: that might fall, well, I think Hunter and Paterson, New
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: South Wales, based on these results, Blair and Ford in Queensland,
• 20:53
  Speaker 6: Pearce and WA, Dunkley and McEwen in Victoria, Braddon and Bass.
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: In Tasmania, I'd just say that they are the high
• 21:00
  Speaker 6: risk ones. And I also don't think that this is
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: necessarily limited to the demographic that we saw on the weekend.
• 21:05
  Speaker 6: I think it's broader than that. So if One Nation
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: can keep its act together, it could threaten a whole
• 21:12
  Speaker 6: range of seats because this all goes down to essentially
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: the loss of trust in both major parties. What we've
• 21:18
  Speaker 6: seen since Kevin Rudd in 2007, where the major parties
• 21:21
  Speaker 6: hit a high watermark, their primary vote came up to 85%
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: of all votes cast. It's now down to 66%. We've
• 21:29
  Speaker 6: seen people spray off in all directions, that is to
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: the Teals and to the Greens and now, of course,
• 21:33
  Speaker 6: to One Nation.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Let's look at the news poll too because this bears
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: it out. Core support for One Nation has risen to 30%
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: of the vote. Labor 29, Coalition down at 19. Interestingly here,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: this polling, news poll was in the market when there
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: was all that mixed messaging from One Nation over migration targets. Now,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: I think I said this really clearly last week. If
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: you're going to have a fight over the issue of migration,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: even if a detail coming from One Nation might be
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: a bit garbled, they've got the equity now on migration.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: So if punters are exercised about that issue, they'll stay
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: with One Nation. There's a trust value with One Nation
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: on this. And this is where the two majors are
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: getting stuck in the weeds and they're missing this point.
• 22:21
  Speaker 6: I think you'll find that whoever attacks One Nation will
• 22:24
  Speaker 6: find it a very sticky target because what we're seeing
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: is rejection of the major parties. So that's the core
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: of it. The feeling among people that things have gone
• 22:34
  Speaker 6: wrong and the people who run business as usual are
• 22:37
  Speaker 6: responsible for the things that have gone wrong. The pressure
• 22:39
  Speaker 6: that they feel in their own pockets because of the
• 22:42
  Speaker 6: cost of living and the pressure that they feel from migration.
• 22:46
  Speaker 6: There's a whole range of grievances that go into this,
• 22:48
  Speaker 6: but it's more than just grievance now. It's a determined
• 22:52
  Speaker 6: attempt to change business as usual in Australia. So Pauline
• 22:57
  Speaker 6: Hanson might present a big target, but I think she's
• 22:59
  Speaker 6: going to be pretty hard to hit.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a Redbridge poll out as well. One Nation
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: slipped behind Labor in this one, but they've been changing
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: the lead here five or six times over as many months.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: There were a series of attacks yesterday and over the
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: weekend from Labor, the PM and the Treasurer, Very personally,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: I have to say, Pauline Hanson, and she hit out
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: in a post on X, accusing Labor of inciting political
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: violence against One Nation. And I have to say, you know,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: the language used by the Prime Minister, well, she's right
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: to call it out, Chris.
• 23:36
  Speaker 6: Well, Peter, the one thing that I heard the Prime
• 23:37
  Speaker 6: Minister say is that Pauline Hanson and One Nation would
• 23:40
  Speaker 6: say anything and do anything.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: To get elected.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: Well, pot, kettle, pot.
• 23:47
  Speaker 6: I think most Australians would look at both major parties,
• 23:50
  Speaker 6: but particularly the government, and start to add these things up.
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: $ 275 cut to your electricity bill by 2025. That was
• 23:58
  Speaker 6: a promise that never emerged. Then there was the promise,
• 24:00
  Speaker 6: of course, not to do anything about capital gains tax
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: or negative gearing, and that was a promise that was broken.
• 24:06
  Speaker 6: Changes on superannuation as well. You start to add up
• 24:10
  Speaker 6: the scorecard, and I think it's a bit rich for
• 24:12
  Speaker 6: the Labor Party to be saying that another party... is
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: prepared to break promises to get into government because that's
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: what we've seen.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Well, let's go to where Pauline Hanson was today. She
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: was in the Latrobe Valley down at Yallourn. And this
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: is really interesting for two reasons. The first that I
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: think Australians are desperate for a fair dinkum debate about
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: baseload energy. They know our coal and our gas is
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: headed offshore for other countries to burn while we're going
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: crazy about renewables here and ramping up our power prices.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: But she's also sending a message to the people of
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: the Latrobe Valley, many of them in tough circumstances now,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: lower income anyway, really struggling with the loss of jobs
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: as these coal-fired power stations are closing down. And it
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: reminded me a lot of the way that Trump went
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: through all those Rust Belt states and really picked up
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: an army. It didn't surprise me, Chris, that she was
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: down there today.
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: Now, the other thing, Peter, is it's very smart politics
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: because of this, and that is Yallourn is slated to
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: close and unplug 1,490 megawatts from the Victorian grid in 2028. Now,
• 25:21
  Speaker 6: that can't be allowed to happen because that gap cannot
• 25:25
  Speaker 6: be filled. And the only thing that's keeping power prices
• 25:28
  Speaker 6: down in Australia is the cheap brown coal in Victoria.
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: Once the next one goes, we'll start to really begin
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: to see what the cost of power is on two fronts.
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: the cost to your bill, but also the cost to reliability.
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: So what One Nation is doing is flagging that they
• 25:44
  Speaker 6: won't close it, probably knowing that the government can't. Now,
• 25:47
  Speaker 6: the real issue there, though, is Yallourn is very, very old.
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: The three stations there, it's the oldest. It's been run
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: down and it may well break in any event. But
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: whatever happens next, that amount of electricity can't be allowed
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: to leave the grid without a replacement. And there's no replacements.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: And you're in Darwin talking energy too, I'm told. Peter,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: great news.
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: The Beedaloo Basin is about to produce first gas tomorrow. Now,
• 26:16
  Speaker 6: the Tambourine Resources has spent $ 1 billion on this. The
• 26:20
  Speaker 6: Northern Territory Government is extremely excited about it. A big
• 26:24
  Speaker 6: shale gas play. People say enough gas to power Australia
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: for the next 200 years. Of course, the Northern Territory
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: Government is pushing for pipelines to head towards New South
• 26:33
  Speaker 6: Wales and Victoria. Remains to be seen, probably a $ 5
• 26:35
  Speaker 6: billion price tag on that, but it may well be
• 26:38
  Speaker 6: worth it. But there are enormous resources in regional Australia.
• 26:42
  Speaker 6: I think we'll see soon some news out of Queensland
• 26:45
  Speaker 6: about whether or not there's oil up there. And these
• 26:47
  Speaker 6: are the resources that we should be tapping because we
• 26:50
  Speaker 6: need to stay rich and adapt to whatever the world
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: throws at us.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: And energy security, Chris, as we know, is national security.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Enjoy tomorrow. Right after the break, we'll get
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: back into the alarming revelations. regarding that bombshell memo to
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: the AFP to send you command and that submission to
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: the Royal Commission that's seemingly been ignored. Former AFP Detective
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: David Craig will join me. We'll get into the detail.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I want to explain to you what happens when resourcing
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: is ground down like that. Plenty more coming up. Welcome back.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Coming up, we'll get the latest on the political impact
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: of tonight's revelations from Shadow Home Affairs Minister, Senator Dunham,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: who fought to get that secret counter-terrorism memo out into
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: the public domain. Now we know what's in it. I'm
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: not surprised it was held back. And what about police
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: boss Chrissy Barrett and the politicians in charge, starting with
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: the Prime Minister, all who have not given public evidence?
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: But now I want to return to some of the
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: detail in the submission and the memo and how it
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: all might play out in an operational sense. Joining me, former...
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: senior AFP officer with counter-terrorism experience, of course, the man
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: that we both know and we all know here on
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Sky News, David Craig. Thank you for your time, David.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: Thanks, Peter.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I want to start with a submission and then get
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: into the memo which is contained in the submission. But
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: let's speak to someone of that rank, and you've read
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: the submission, putting in a submission of this tone and
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: detail that and operational experience to the Royal Commission.
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: If you were looking into what happened in Bondi and
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: why and how you would want to never have it
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: happen again, you'd be picking up the submission and going
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: through it carefully, wouldn't you? Oh, yeah.
• 28:49
  Speaker 11: I noticed that the submission is fairly recent. The information,
• 28:53
  Speaker 11: I understand, has been getting passed to the Commission for
• 28:55
  Speaker 11: a long time. Now, this is written by three AFP
• 28:59
  Speaker 11: counter-terrorism commanders. I mean, they are very senior members. They
• 29:02
  Speaker 11: know counter-terrorism. And this was a scream out for help,
• 29:06
  Speaker 11: this document.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: This is the memo. Let's just start with the submission.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: We'll get to the memo. But the submission, the fact
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: that this individual has written a submission, it was lodged
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: with the Royal Commission a month ago, that's a big step.
• 29:18
  Speaker 11: Absolutely. I mean, normally it's actually a criminal offence for
• 29:22
  Speaker 11: any former or current AFP members to talk to the
• 29:25
  Speaker 11: public about what's happened in the AFP. It's actually a
• 29:28
  Speaker 11: crime under the AFP Act. If it wasn't for the
• 29:30
  Speaker 11: Royal Commission, details about this report would never have come
• 29:35
  Speaker 11: to light. So, I mean, this has given an opportunity
• 29:38
  Speaker 11: for the Australian public to see what actually is going
• 29:40
  Speaker 11: on behind the closed doors of the AFP and behind
• 29:43
  Speaker 11: Freedom of Information Act actions by some senior members who
• 29:46
  Speaker 11: had some concerns.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: But we only know about it because we've seen the submission.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: This has not been ventilated publicly by the Royal Commission.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: This individual hasn't been called to give evidence. And it
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: would appear that this memo has not been discussed, at
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: least publicly, by the Royal Commission.
• 30:03
  Speaker 11: Yeah, it's quite shocking, Peter. I mean, at the moment,
• 30:06
  Speaker 11: we've now got conflicting reports between what is supposedly in
• 30:09
  Speaker 11: this submission, or what is in this submission, and what
• 30:12
  Speaker 11: the Royal Commission has said in its interim report.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: OK, so let's go to the memo, right? So, in
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: May 2024... A memo gets written by a number of
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: senior AFP commanders in the counter-terrorism area, and it details
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: quite extraordinary critical shortages in their area. They say that
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: this will have an impact on their ability and the
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: AFP's ability to meet their Australian obligations to keep Australians safe, right?
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: National terrorism, national security issues. What surprised you about that,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: that they put pen to paper, that it wasn't acted upon?
• 30:55
  Speaker 11: Well, it's a courageous decision. I mean, this can be
• 30:58
  Speaker 11: a career-defining mistake by a senior officer to start declaring
• 31:03
  Speaker 11: to the upper management that there are some significant problems
• 31:06
  Speaker 11: that need to be addressed. This is documenting it because
• 31:09
  Speaker 11: of the workforce stress being carried by the people in
• 31:12
  Speaker 11: the counterterrorism command because they didn't have enough people. Now,
• 31:16
  Speaker 11: by documenting it, they are literally passing the responsibility up,
• 31:20
  Speaker 11: a scream out for help, if you like, saying we
• 31:22
  Speaker 11: need more assistance. Now, what happened with that report?
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know. So let's go to some of the
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: detail in this memo. 25% capability gap across the board nationally.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: But what is of great concern, a 38% gap in
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: capability in New South Wales in the counter-terrorism command. What
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: does that look like operationally?
• 31:44
  Speaker 11: Well, even if we just put that into every day,
• 31:46
  Speaker 11: if you take a 25% or a 30-odd percent cut
• 31:50
  Speaker 11: in your staffing and your services ability in any business,
• 31:54
  Speaker 11: it's going to fail. And what happens in counterterrorism is
• 31:57
  Speaker 11: your vulnerabilities go up, your stress goes up, your risks
• 32:00
  Speaker 11: go up because you're not covering off every bit of
• 32:02
  Speaker 11: information you should. You simply don't have the resources. So
• 32:05
  Speaker 11: it becomes more and more of a liability for an organisation.
• 32:08
  Speaker 11: And it's not a risk that I would take. And
• 32:10
  Speaker 11: I would be very surprised if this report hasn't been
• 32:14
  Speaker 11: actioned because it would be very risky behaviour.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Well, we know what happened in May 2024. We were
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: in the middle. It was post-October 7. Yes, it was
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: before Bondi, but we'd have protests on the steps of
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: the Opera House. We had pro-Palestinian marches. We had terrible
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: acts of anti-Semitism occurring. If this area, the counter-terrorism area,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: says we haven't got the resources, in Sydney alone they're
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: saying we're close to 40% less than what we need
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: to keep Australians safe. That's a huge red flag.
• 32:49
  Speaker 11: Absolutely. I mean, it's a red flag right then, Peter,
• 32:51
  Speaker 11: but then a couple of months later, ASIO raised the
• 32:54
  Speaker 11: national threat level to probable, so we're probably going to
• 32:56
  Speaker 11: have a terrorist attack. And the AFP senior management said,
• 33:00
  Speaker 11: have been advised that they are understaffing.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: By significant amount.
• 33:04
  Speaker 11: So this becomes a very hot memo, David.
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: 100%, 100%.
• 33:07
  Speaker 11: And I mean, this is a very dodgy position for
• 33:12
  Speaker 11: the AFP to be in. And I've worked in counter-terrorism
• 33:14
  Speaker 11: in Australia, Afghanistan, Indonesia. I know counter-terrorism. I know what
• 33:18
  Speaker 11: the commanders would have done. This wasn't a report that
• 33:21
  Speaker 11: was put together very quickly. This is put together with
• 33:23
  Speaker 11: a lot of thought to get three commanders to actually
• 33:26
  Speaker 11: put that down and scream out for help for the
• 33:29
  Speaker 11: Australian people and for more resourcing so that they can
• 33:33
  Speaker 11: keep Australia safe.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Two other things that struck me as worrying. They mentioned
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: the Enduring Risk Investigations team. This is the team that
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: monitors high-risk terrorists. They say there was unsustainable vacancies here.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Talk to us about what this team does and what
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: unsustainable vacancies might mean.
• 33:54
  Speaker 11: Well, what it does is it monitors high-risk terrorist offenders
• 33:58
  Speaker 11: and a subset of that is monitoring people of emerging
• 34:03
  Speaker 11: interest to the AFP. So they haven't been committed to
• 34:05
  Speaker 11: the Joint Counterterrorism Team investigation yet, but they are being monitored. Now,
• 34:09
  Speaker 11: if you haven't got enough people in there, you simply
• 34:11
  Speaker 11: can't monitor people.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: So risk falls through the cracks? Absolutely.
• 34:16
  Speaker 11: Your risk goes up. If you can't monitor people, you've
• 34:18
  Speaker 11: only got a certain number of people to make a
• 34:20
  Speaker 11: certain number of inquiries on an increasing number of suspected
• 34:23
  Speaker 11: or possible terrorists. So, obviously, we're heading for a train crash.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: It also says there that there was a decision by
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: the NSC, that this is a government decision, the NSC's
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: chaired by the Prime Minister, there's a decision of the
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: government not to give the AFP any additional funding, and
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: these three commanders write in the memo that that is
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: of grave concern.
• 34:43
  Speaker 11: Absolutely. I don't understand how a government, in that environment
• 34:48
  Speaker 11: at the time of that NSC, with all the anti-Semitism,
• 34:51
  Speaker 11: with the Opera House thing happening, with AFP senior command
• 34:55
  Speaker 11: screaming out for help in counter-terrorism for them to blindly say,
• 34:58
  Speaker 11: we're not going to give you any more funding for counter-terrorism.
• 35:00
  Speaker 11: I wouldn't like to be Chrissy Barrett in that position
• 35:02
  Speaker 11: if that's what she was told. That's a horrible position
• 35:05
  Speaker 11: to be in because she's taking on a lot of risk.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Well, she notes in estimates, we played the grab before,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: that she had not formally received the minute. I know
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: what Canberra word games look like. That means perhaps she
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: informally received it or got an oral briefing, am I right? Yeah,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: that's right.
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: I mean.
• 35:23
  Speaker 11: In counterterrorism, Peter, there is no informally, there is no
• 35:26
  Speaker 11: off the record. If someone comes to you and says,
• 35:28
  Speaker 11: we think we've got 25% to 30% vacancy rate in counterterrorism,
• 35:33
  Speaker 11: you can't just be willfully blind and pretend that it's
• 35:36
  Speaker 11: not happening.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: Does it strike you as unusual to see that Stephen
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Nutt gave evidence? I went through the entire list. of
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: people who publicly gave evidence over the weekend. Stephen Nutt
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: gives evidence. He's the only senior AFP officer before the
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Royal Commission. He's done and dusted. 15 people are dead.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: He's done and dusted in 38 minutes. We can call
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: the head of Netball, but we don't call Chrissie Barrett,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: the head of the AFP.
• 36:01
  Speaker 11: Yeah, that's an appalling comparison. I mean, Steve Nutt is
• 36:06
  Speaker 11: a very competent officer. I've got no doubt about that.
• 36:08
  Speaker 11: I know that for a fact. But Chrissie Barrett was
• 36:11
  Speaker 11: the Deputy Commissioner of National Security when this document was done.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: When the memo was done.
• 36:17
  Speaker 11: When the memo was done.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: She was also in charge when Bondi happened.
• 36:20
  Speaker 11: That's right. And now she's the AFP Commissioner. So if
• 36:23
  Speaker 11: anyone can shed light on this, it's Chrissie Barrett. And
• 36:26
  Speaker 11: we need to know because there's a conflict between what
• 36:29
  Speaker 11: the interim report of the Royal Commission is, which is
• 36:31
  Speaker 11: saying that the AFP's resourcing and staffing has been stagnant
• 36:34
  Speaker 11: or has been the same over varying levels of security,
• 36:39
  Speaker 11: and this document, which is a stark contrast to what
• 36:43
  Speaker 11: the Royal Commission has said. Now, the Royal Commission does
• 36:45
  Speaker 11: need to look at this document now and re-compare what
• 36:48
  Speaker 11: actually went on. We need to get the original document,
• 36:51
  Speaker 11: we need to call the HR documents, the staffing numbers
• 36:55
  Speaker 11: underneath that, and we need to get Chrissie Barrett's evidence.
• 36:58
  Speaker 11: on the AFP's capability in 2024 when this document came out,
• 37:03
  Speaker 11: when the probable threat assessment came in August 2024 and
• 37:08
  Speaker 11: at the time of the Bondi shooting. We need to
• 37:10
  Speaker 11: know what the AFP's capability was and the only one
• 37:13
  Speaker 11: that can do that is Chrissie Barrett and the Royal
• 37:15
  Speaker 11: Commission with their powers.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: So you think it should be reopened?
• 37:17
  Speaker 11: 100%, 100%. I think the Australian people deserve it. And
• 37:21
  Speaker 11: I think the Royal Commission needs to know how they
• 37:23
  Speaker 11: can be given such a contrast of information from two
• 37:27
  Speaker 11: different sources, the AFP and this officer.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: David Craig, thank you. All right, that's someone with operational
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: experience in counter-terrorism calling it as he sees it about
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: the detail in these documents. After the break, though, the
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: political cover-up, is that what this is? Is it a
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: political conspiracy by those in Canberra? We'll get to that
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: in a moment. Welcome back. Plenty of issues to get across.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: My Monday night panel will join me shortly. James Ashby
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: and Nicole Flint, but now to the man who pursued
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: the release of the bombshell memo from May 2024 about
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: AFP under-resourcing in counter-terrorism. We now know what that memo contained.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Home Affairs Shadow Minister, Senator Jonathan Dunham, joins me now. Well, Senator,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: for nearly a year now, you have fought to put
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: that memo in the public domain. I only know a
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: little bit about it because of this submission to the
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Royal Commission that Are you shocked by what you've heard?
• 38:28
  Speaker 12: Well, Peter, I'm really dismayed by what I've heard. I
• 38:33
  Speaker 12: guess you could say I'm shocked as well. I'm more
• 38:36
  Speaker 12: disappointed that the government have sought to prevent this document
• 38:40
  Speaker 12: from being put into the public domain and even more
• 38:43
  Speaker 12: disappointed that the Royal Commission haven't sought to have this
• 38:46
  Speaker 12: as part of the evidence provided for their consideration. So
• 38:49
  Speaker 12: there is a lot in there. I think we all
• 38:51
  Speaker 12: had a hunch based on some of the public reporting
• 38:53
  Speaker 12: that existed yesterday before the terrible events of Bondi, and
• 38:56
  Speaker 12: I point to the claims of the Australian Federal Police Association,
• 39:00
  Speaker 12: who said that their members were under extreme pressure, particularly
• 39:04
  Speaker 12: in the counter-terror area, as a result of staffing cuts.
• 39:07
  Speaker 12: So people couldn't pretend this wasn't an issue, and what
• 39:10
  Speaker 12: you've revealed tonight does point to the fact that people knew,
• 39:13
  Speaker 12: people in decisions of authority knew, and sadly did nothing
• 39:17
  Speaker 12: about it.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: When you have an event like October 7 overseas, you
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: may not think immediately there'll be a fallout in Australia,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: but we saw it within hours on the steps of
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: the Opera House. We saw it in areas of Sydney
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: and Melbourne, some pretty horrific commentary from hate preachers. So
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: even then, you're alive to the fact that there'll be
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: a fallout in Australia. You then know, of course, there
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: was the lift in the National Security Terror Assessment from
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: possible to probable in And then you get this memo
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: saying that resourcing is stretched, revelations that the NSC had
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: taken a decision not to increase funding to the AFP.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: The AFP commanders, you know, at the pointy end of counter-terrorism,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: warning their bosses that they had a 38% capability gap
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: in New South Wales. 18 months later, of course, we
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: have the events at Bondi. Surely this should be absolutely
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: front and centre at any royal commission.
• 40:17
  Speaker 12: As you said earlier, Peter, the whole point of the
• 40:19
  Speaker 12: Royal Commission is to get to the bottom of what
• 40:21
  Speaker 12: went wrong across all of the decision-making, national security and
• 40:25
  Speaker 12: intelligence apparatus of federal and state governments. And if you're
• 40:30
  Speaker 12: not privy to this level of information, things that go
• 40:33
  Speaker 12: to the heart of a government's capability to deal with
• 40:37
  Speaker 12: issues like the ones we're talking about here, then how
• 40:40
  Speaker 12: can you say you are satisfied and are able to
• 40:42
  Speaker 12: make a full determination? There are questions around resourcing, decisions
• 40:47
  Speaker 12: made by a range of people, including the NSC, which is,
• 40:50
  Speaker 12: I think, a very important point. That committee is made
• 40:53
  Speaker 12: up of ministers of government, people who are privy to
• 40:57
  Speaker 12: information that me, you, your viewers are not privy to.
• 41:01
  Speaker 12: And yet we still have these decisions to keep resourcing
• 41:04
  Speaker 12: where it was, which is not where it needed to be. Hence, sadly,
• 41:08
  Speaker 12: what happened at Bondi at the end of last year.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: What troubles me, you and I both know how government works,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: what troubles me is that at every other recent Royal
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Commission where there has been issues pertaining to government, I'm
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: thinking of the RoboDebt Royal Commission, Pink Bats, union corruption,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: we've got in the case of RoboDebt two Prime Ministers
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: and multiple Ministers who fronted that Royal Commission. Others have
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: had Prime Ministers and multiple Ministers. Here we've got 15
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Australians dead on a beach on in the middle of
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: summer in Australia and we have not had one politician
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: in charge of a portfolio and no Prime Minister call
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: before the Royal Commission. I find that extraordinary, Jono.
• 41:51
  Speaker 12: That's because, Peter, it is. As you say, I mean,
• 41:54
  Speaker 12: this is not.
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: So they don't.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Want to know. That's the only conclusion I can make.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: They don't want to know.
• 42:00
  Speaker 12: I tend to think, Peter, there is a willingness or
• 42:03
  Speaker 12: a desire, a hope that this will just go away,
• 42:06
  Speaker 12: that the Commissioner will present the report of the Commission
• 42:10
  Speaker 12: and we can say there are lessons learned and we
• 42:12
  Speaker 12: can all move on. But the reality is we have
• 42:15
  Speaker 12: not had a full inspection of the decision-making process and
• 42:18
  Speaker 12: it does go to government. It does go to the
• 42:21
  Speaker 12: highest level of decision-making in government. As you've just outlined,
• 42:25
  Speaker 12: previous royal commissions have had prime ministers, opposition leaders, ministers
• 42:30
  Speaker 12: and the like all fronting up to give an account
• 42:33
  Speaker 12: for what role they played in those matters. This, the
• 42:36
  Speaker 12: biggest terror event in Australian history on our soil... And
• 42:41
  Speaker 12: we haven't had a single minister or prime minister turn
• 42:44
  Speaker 12: up to give evidence. I think it does raise some
• 42:47
  Speaker 12: significant concerns. Massive alarm bells ringing for me. And I
• 42:51
  Speaker 12: would say that the Commission should have and should still
• 42:54
  Speaker 12: invite these decision makers along to give an account of
• 42:56
  Speaker 12: what they did on behalf.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: Of the people of Australia.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Goodness me, Jono, we've got the head of Netball Australia
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: at the Royal Commission and we haven't even had the
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: head of the AFP publicly give evidence. Surely it must
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: be reopened.
• 43:11
  Speaker 12: I think it is a no-brainer that it should be reopened.
• 43:15
  Speaker 12: I mean, again, if we're to have confidence in this process,
• 43:18
  Speaker 12: a process, of course, as you've said, the Prime Minister,
• 43:21
  Speaker 12: this government was dragged kicking and screaming to open up.
• 43:25
  Speaker 12: They weren't going to have one. then we need to
• 43:28
  Speaker 12: have all of these witnesses present. We need to have
• 43:31
  Speaker 12: all of the information, the evidence, evidence that, thank you
• 43:34
  Speaker 12: for your good work in being able to bring this
• 43:36
  Speaker 12: into the public domain. We have met every roadblock possible
• 43:41
  Speaker 12: in the Senate in trying to obtain this information. Now
• 43:44
  Speaker 12: it's out there, I think it is incumbent upon the
• 43:46
  Speaker 12: Royal Commission to look at reopening its processes and enable
• 43:51
  Speaker 12: this new information, which is central to what this Royal
• 43:55
  Speaker 12: Commission is all about, be considered so that we can
• 43:57
  Speaker 12: have proper recommendations so we can actually prevent this from
• 44:01
  Speaker 12: ever happening again in our country.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Senator. I'll leave it there. All right, quick break.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: We'll get into some other issues after the break, but
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: I will make a comment. He talked there about it
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: being washed away at the end of the year. The
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Royal Commission will report on the 18th of December, right?
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: It'll disappear into Christmas, washed out on a Friday afternoon.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: The Prime Minister will say, I haven't read it yet,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: I'll look at it, and we'll come back in February
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: and we'll be in no better shape in terms of
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: terrorism in Australia. All right, quick break. After the break,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: James Ashby, Nicole Flynn and more. Welcome back, my panel.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Let's get into it. James Ashby, Nicole Flint, of course,
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: both of them well known to my News24 viewers. James,
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: your boss is demanding the Prime Minister be stripped of
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: his powers to decide how many staff people are getting
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: because you're owed a lot more than he's allowing you have.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: It feels like he wants to nobble you, that perhaps
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: he's more terrified of One Nation than he freely admits.
• 45:05
  Speaker 13: Well, if you have a look at the staff numbers,
• 45:07
  Speaker 13: Pauline Hanson's got four staff. The Prime Minister has 430
• 45:11
  Speaker 13: that's been published online today. So they're considerably big different numbers.
• 45:17
  Speaker 13: And you're right, we are entitled to additional staff members
• 45:20
  Speaker 13: because we've reached that minor party status. We did that
• 45:23
  Speaker 13: when we were at five with Barnaby Joyce and with
• 45:25
  Speaker 13: David Farley.
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: We've now got six.
• 45:27
  Speaker 13: So we are well and truly understaffed. I think it's deliberate.
• 45:30
  Speaker 13: This is the Prime Minister being his usual pathetic self.
• 45:34
  Speaker 13: where he punishes his enemy and he rewards those closest
• 45:38
  Speaker 13: to him because the Teals and Jackie Lambie all have
• 45:41
  Speaker 13: additional staff, but he's playing the man, not the ball
• 45:44
  Speaker 13: in this case.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not wrong there. He was very quick to
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: throw extra staff at the Teals, wasn't he, Nicole? And
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: we see the stories today that he is adding an
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: average of 28 public servants to Canberra every single day,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: $ 34 billion of extra costs. Just absolutely extraordinary, Peter.
• 46:06
  Speaker 14: So not only are taxpayers paying for these salaries of
• 46:10
  Speaker 14: bureaucrats who are probably making most taxpayers' lives more miserable,
• 46:13
  Speaker 14: especially if they're a small business, but also they're in
• 46:17
  Speaker 14: direct competition with the private sector. We've got a skill shortage,
• 46:20
  Speaker 14: a skilled jobs crisis. And when you've got the government
• 46:27
  Speaker 14: in direct competition with businesses, how can they possibly compete?
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: What an absolute disaster. The former IBAC boss, Robert Redlick,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: was out today saying that in relation to this secret
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: transport levy in Victoria that was uncovered by the Auditor-General
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: last week, he thinks it's a matter that should be
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: investigated by IBAC. James?
• 46:50
  Speaker 13: Yeah, disgraceful, especially when this state government in Victoria were
• 46:55
  Speaker 13: looking to clean up on a secret tax, $ 8 billion...
• 46:59
  Speaker 13: from commuters who rely on public transport. Let's face it,
• 47:02
  Speaker 13: it's very difficult to get around Victoria. And it wasn't
• 47:06
  Speaker 13: for the betterment of the Victorian people. It was for
• 47:09
  Speaker 13: the betterment of this Labor government. It was all very secretive.
• 47:13
  Speaker 13: $ 8 billion during a cost-of-living crisis. And when we rely
• 47:17
  Speaker 13: on governments to try and make our lives easier, these
• 47:20
  Speaker 13: guys behind the scenes secretly, including Ben Carroll as Deputy
• 47:23
  Speaker 13: Premier at the time, imposed this disgusting... terrible tax on people.
• 47:29
  Speaker 13: They should lose it just on this front.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: What about this today? You know, veteran player, he's a
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: player's agent, Peter Jess, I was going to call him
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Jimmy Jess, but it's not Jimmy Jess, it's Peter Jess.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: He's warning the AFL that allowing trans players, Nicole, to
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: compete against biological women will increase the likelihood of serious concussion. Now,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: the AFL says it's taking this seriously, taking concussion seriously.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: But they can't be if they allow a man, biological male,
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: trans woman, six foot two, 90 kilos, to play against
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: women in South Australia as they are doing. Peter, this
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: is completely outrageous.
• 48:09
  Speaker 14: Our national sporting codes do not take women's safety seriously.
• 48:12
  Speaker 14: You and I have been talking about this for years.
• 48:15
  Speaker 14: It's unacceptable.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: It's dangerous.
• 48:18
  Speaker 14: And we know that not only is it dangerous, but
• 48:21
  Speaker 14: women can't physically compete with biological men, especially when they're
• 48:26
  Speaker 14: six foot two and 90 kilos. It's completely unacceptable. And
• 48:30
  Speaker 14: just another absolute stuff up by the AFL. They cannot
• 48:34
  Speaker 14: get anything right.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: I will leave it there, James. I've spoken a little
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: bit earlier about the language, the term dangerous used by
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: the Prime Minister today. I'm with your boss on this one.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: I think it's reprehensible and that will be followed up,
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: I'm sure, again by the media tomorrow. Thank you to
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: you both. Well, that's it tonight. I'll follow up this
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: story about the AFP memo that went in and out
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: of head office prior to Bondi, but it does not
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: appear to have been action. The fallout on that will continue.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you for your company. Here's James McPherson.