Latest / CINEMACTIVIST / S03E06 - Meet Mr + Mrs Death with Jill Killington

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S03E06 - Meet Mr + Mrs Death with Jill Killington · CINEMACTIVIST

• John C. Lyons: Hi everybody and welcome back to Cinema Activist. I'm your host, John Lyons, and we are ⁓ lucky to back Jill Killington. How's it going, Jill? The one and only JillKill.com. ⁓ Jill: The one and only. Now ⁓ that's you know John C. Lyons: It's all the thing. Jill: when when you write when you write a little for yourself like Jill Kill as your name, ⁓ you better get JillKill.com. ⁓ John C. Lyons: Yeah, Helia. It's a great name. It's a good one. Jill: I'm so close to being Beetlejuice, just call your bioexorcist. Hi John, how are you doing? John C. Lyons: I'm doing well. How are you doing? Jill: I'm doing very well. in I'm in editing for my movie that we'll be discussing a little bit and it's going really well and I'm excited. So yeah. John C. Lyons: That's awesome. So, okay, so today is going to be all about, yeah, like I was saying, last episode that we met was all about this is your life, Jill Killington. And now this one will be This Is Your Life, Mr. and Mrs. Death. So when did the idea first come to you? When did you decide, yeah, I want to do this, I want to write this? Like what what were the kernels of inspiration and the starting point? Jill: I mean, that's a thing. It's like you go way, way, way back to the beginning where it's like I always loved sort of femme fatale ⁓ you know, back in the day movies were about girls with guns being badasses. I always like that sort of thing, like both the original noir and n neo noir thing. And then I I also grew up in the era of like natural born killers, you know, like true romance, badlands, like love those sort of Bonnie and Clyde modern day ⁓ lovers on the run, ⁓ having the time of their lives and you know, better not get in their way kind of movies. I always love that sort of thing. So it's like it goes way back to like childhood, puberty, just like the things that you're interested in in movies. And then as as we covered in last episode, I was a professional ⁓ screenwriter and ⁓ producer for a lot of like book adaptations and movies. And I just sort of learned like All the different things that go into adopting a a treasured IP. It was just like, how do I create my own story that I have total control over? Because that was what what sucked about like, you know, working on these giant projects. It was just like, okay, I work on a Stephen King project. I'm not Stephen King. I don't have final say on anything. Even he doesn't have final say on anything once you sell the rights. I wanted to make a movie that was purely like after being a a co-writer and co-producer, like Always being one of the cooks in the kitchen. I wanted to be the chef. I wanted to do something simple enough that I knew I could make it work and something uniquely mine, something that is was doing something that I don't think movies are doing as much right now, like just like giving a taste of like rebellion, love, sex, you know, like ⁓ the quest for money, just like, you know, like just old fashioned movie making, but brought new and sexy and fun the origins of this movie are I've always loved movies. I wanted to make something small enough that I could control it and shoot it. So I thought a couple. You know what I mean? It's like a couple. Let me get two great actors who are like sexy and cool to look at. It's always worked. You know, it's like back to the black and white, somebody's getting tied to train tracks days in like the beginning of film. ⁓ That was cool. You know, it's like Romeo and Juliet, that cool. It's like John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jill: A couple that's always gonna be interesting. and then I was just like, okay, but the other thing to do is I need to have ⁓ a villain in the piece or at least c major, major conflict keeping them apart. That's when you have a love triangle. So it's like, okay, I got two a guy and a girl, young couple, and they're trying to kill an older man as like their quest for freedom, they're they're ⁓ testing the boundaries of what they think is right and wrong. ⁓ And that was the initial premise, ⁓ and I don't I'd wanted to make a movie like that for a long time. I'd written a couple other indie movies that were kind of similar that did just stay the guy and the girl. And that's why I added the third part, because I tried to make a movie with Bella Thorne ⁓ in 2017 and I couldn't get the funding. And I was like, ⁓ they don't fund movies for young people as much right now. I need like a veteran actor. Cause you know what I mean? Like how people would produce all these movies where they'd have like Bruce Willis or somebody in it for one day. And it's like, okay, what if I can get a really good actor for John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Jill: That everybody loves for five days, you know, and it's like, can I shoot out something really, really cool with that? Like using my producer skills to make this indie. So yeah, that's how this was hatched. I wrote it ⁓ summer of 2022. It is currently the year of our Lord ⁓ 2026. We're recording this on July 15th or June 15th. It was around this time that I did the majority of the writing on this pre-AI rewriting. So this is an actual Human grown screenplay, born and raised came out of my l little human fingers, out of out from my brain and into a computer. But ⁓ but yeah. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Raw rah. So how did you ⁓ so how'd you get started? Like how do you like to write? Do you outline, Jill: I'm a huge believer in ⁓ write everything down all the time. Like I've like ⁓ I have post-its, I have notes everywhere, I have notebooks everywhere. I'm a big believer in paper and pen. ⁓ John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Jill: I think it triggers something different in the brain than typing. I've I was very sh you wouldn't tell from how much I'm talking right now, but I used to be a very shy kid who didn't talk much because I got punished a lot in school for it. So I started writing everything down and so yeah, I write and write. ⁓ I str I write down any idea, but I love note cards. Note cards are my favorite thing because that way you can move your ideas around, it's very easy to restructure. John C. Lyons: Well no. Jill: So I start like that, I just write down cool idea where it's like, you know, spoiler alert in my movie, like what you know, what if what if somebody has a gun to their head while they're tied up? Kinda hot, kinda interesting, you know, that goes on a note card. I'm like, mm, somewhere near the middle. How do we get there? Ooh, the guy is stalking the girl to kill her on the street. Ooh, she almost kills him instead. Wow, cool. So, like that's at the beginning of the movie. And then it's like, okay, where do I want to go to at the end? They gotta go after this guy. ⁓ she should be a stripper because that way she meets an older client there that's thrown around his money, always has girls over the house. Perfect, easy target for a young couple just getting started in murder to kill. Great, like that's my ending. And it's like, then you just fill it out. There is something that, like David Lynch said, ⁓ 70 note cards, and you're done. That's your movie, you know, and it's just like John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Jill: It's actually kind of true. Like it's like in this particular movie, I think I had like 71 major scenes or something like that. take take everybody's advice with a grain of salt, but I personally prefer the note card method endorsed by Robert Rodriguez. ⁓ as I said, the David Lynch likes it. ⁓ there's so many people that like the note card. I personally never like the Sid Field, like three-act structure. I think that's too limiting. I really am a nonlinear thinker. I really just want Every scene I shoot to be like really fucking cool. Everything in the movie should be awesome. And so it's just like I try to figure out how to put as many awesome ideas in as possible. Because that's also what I did when I was doing book adaptations for movies. So yeah, so this is it's like how can I on a budget cram in the coolest ideas I can was it was and is still currently the attempts for Mr. and Mrs. Death because we we will be shooting pickups and doing ⁓ B unit footage still. So I still have the opportunity to shoot more. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. All right. Jill: With my two amazing actors, Fen Peter and Lindsey Narmington. Yep. John C. Lyons: Wow, that's awesome. That's good. Okay. So yeah, you had some images in mind. You knew the style that you wanted. Jill: Tons of images. Like, ⁓ and again, this is just like the kind of thing I have like sitting around. Like I'm also a big fan of magazines because holy shit, if you look at old issues of American Cinematographer, they give you the exact like lighting and cameras and everything for my favorite films. And then it's like, cool, I can apply this into a LUT now, like very easily in our color grade. And and anyway. And then I also have like a lot of behind the scenes stuff like this, because again, it's very inspiring for marketing. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Nice. Jill: But yeah, I I collected some of these while I was making the movie, but I also collected a lot of these things because I'm the person who made this movie. John C. Lyons: Yeah. No, that's good. ⁓ I also appreciate that, you know, when we okay, so when did we start doing the cinema circus meetings in Jill: I think it was like ⁓ beginning of twenty twenty four. Yes. John C. Lyons: ⁓ okay. All right. So you had already had the script written or were you still working on like tweaking the script or anything when Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jill: The script is still being tweaked every day in post right now, and I will be releasing several different versions of this movie. I will be ⁓ doing like you know, short scenes that play differently than the movie that you see in the in the feature film. Like it's like to me, it's an ever-evolving because I independently finance and own the creativity on this entire project, I can do whatever I want with any image I ever shot or audio I got for this. So it's like and John C. Lyons: Mm. Yeah. Jill: With with the support of my crew, because it's like I I did the thing where I cut in everybody on equity that it's like, what if we all shared in the f in our future? Yes, that's the way projects should be made. Yeah. Well yeah, I didn't I because I mostly hired friends and friends of friends, I had very little money, especially for shooting in Los Angeles and Hollywood in twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six. So it's like I have to be John C. Lyons: That's awesome. Yeah. Very cool. Okay. Yeah. Jill: Kind to people and promise them that we're gonna work together and make more cool things because I don't have the money to be an asshole like they used to in the 90s. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Well when you said that like so that summer when you knocked it out, that was kind of like your first full draft then is basically what you're saying. Jill: Yes, that's that's what I count the beginning of this. It was the first full draft. I wrote it specifically, knowing like, okay, it mostly takes place in the old guy that's house they're trying to k ⁓ kill. That's like, you know, the climax of the movie. So that's something I can shoot out like the last five or ten days of production. ⁓ And it's like the first seventy pages of the movie is like happening mostly in cars, in beds, ⁓ and bedrooms ⁓ and a strip club. So I was like, cool, I know. ⁓ John C. Lyons: Yep. Yep. Jill: even on the lowest budget I can make this look cool and have it ready to shoot very fast because it's like, you know, in what I was trying to adapt Interview the Vampire for Universal, I was like, ⁓ wow, how long will it take for us to prep and develop this? We better start working with production designers and artists already. And same thing with the stand, because it's just like you need a lot of prep. But strip clubs, like God bless my production designer, ⁓ Ricardo Orta, he built a strip club in a weekend basically out of a friend stage for us. John C. Lyons: ⁓ man. Jill: with like practically no money. We're just like some Amazon and the whole thing was held together by Butle, as he as he said over and over. ⁓ I was like, Rico, everything's held together by butyl. ⁓ like the entire world is just like we're just holding it together as best we can. I'm I'm rambling. ⁓ John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, we're MacGyver in it, right? We're MacGyver in it. So you had a script, you kept working on it. So I wanna save some of, you know, like how you got there for the next episode, like the nuts and bolts of the whole thing. But did you write it? Sounds like you wrote very much like ⁓ budget conscious ⁓ and you ⁓ Jill: Always, yeah. John C. Lyons: Yeah, and you kept in mind like what resources you have. Jill: And like what I what would be shootable? Yeah. I didn't know the couple that I would shoot the movie with yet, but I said, I just need to find like a real life couple that has chemistry, that loves acting. And it's like I always I always loved when real life couples played in movies. Like I loved the movie California with like Brad Pitt and and ⁓ Juliet Lewis. I think it adds like such a playful, interesting thing when you have a real real chemistry. And so I thought that was a great way to get real chemistry. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jill: And to really be able to set the tone and do something more fun and experimental than like normal Hollywood stuff, which is like the normal Hollywood way of casting this, is like, hey, like what people can we get from this agency? What people can we get interested? Hey, like we have these two clients, they hate each other, like they're not sexually attracted to each other. One of their their c their their their wife or husband doesn't want them doing this. It's creating like a weird dynamic. It's just like there's so many issues. John C. Lyons: Right. Right. The chemistry, right? Jill: Because it's human beings you're dealing with, with with doing anything kind of sexy. And I was just like, let's find a real couple who who are actors. And again, I don't know how I did this. I really found like the perfect couple to act in my movie, plus which like Lindsey Normington ⁓ a real life ⁓ labor ad advocate and stripper, ⁓ and sex worker. Like she identifies proudly and like is also a writer, director, an incredible. Like she's she's a wonderful, wonderful talent. Like, John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. Jill: F just a true artist. But ⁓ John C. Lyons: So how did you let me back you up really quick. How did you how did you did you meet her first? Did you meet him first? How did you ⁓ Jill: I met her first. So I tried to cast my lovely friend who's an amazing actress and super charming and sweet. I had my friend Gabrielle Maiden attached to be Lou for a while. And I was just like, sh yeah, she's she was on Stranger Things. She's like beautiful and a pro snowboarder. And I was like, cool, like she has the attitude I want. Like I love working with her. Let's let's see how much ⁓ training it would take for a pro snowboarder and very athletic, great dancer. John C. Lyons: Really. Jill: Like, let's let's see how much training it would take for her to learn to dance. And I was like, the stripping is not a big deal in this story. Like I could write around it, whatever. We took two classes together trying to learn pole, and I have never been so sore and depressed after something. Like it's it makes you realize like what a true art form that is. And it's like I really wanted it in the movie because I knew it was cinematic on a low budget. I was like, okay, I can surround a great actress with other John C. Lyons: ⁓ man. Yeah. Jill: other dancers who are real and like that will make it that I'll still get the cinema I want. ⁓ I I was helping out on an indie film that I found on on Seed and Spark. I like hit up the director Zach after seeing a Seed and Spark about this movie called It Lives in the Screen. ⁓ And ⁓ was one of the stars of that. And then so I started like helping out on this movie just because I was curious like how they were shooting in LA with you know very low budget. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Jill: And I went to set and just like, you know, it was like helping out, like, you need this or that. Like, I'll call somebody. Like, I I've I basically made for everybody's parking one day. I don't know. I it's like I I ⁓ it like trying to produce, but it was like, I don't know, it was very, it was, it was interesting. It was like a a cool project, but they went in a different direction. I went in different direction. But through that, I met Lindsey. ⁓ And she saw her on set, and that's the other reason I like. John C. Lyons: You still done. ⁓ Gotcha. Okay. Jill: I love to see what actors do on set. I love to see what crew does on set does on set. It's just nice to visit sets sometimes and see, like, ⁓ I like this makeup artist. I like this cinematographer. great gaffer. You know, it's just like it's ⁓ it's fun to go visit and meet people. And so I met Lindsey on that set, and I was like, wow, she's a great actress, like, really brings intensity, really goes for it. And her boyfriend was on set with her, and he was just like kind of hanging out looking grumpy. ⁓ And didn't even know that she'd been a a dancer or any of this stuff at this point. But so anyway, I I see the two of them. I'm like, God, they kind of look like my characters, Lou and Al. I was just like, huh. I I and I I already had wanted her to play the role. And then I found out that she was a dancer. I like, this is incredible. So ⁓ gave Lindsey the script. I was like, do you want to read this? You know, like one dance that I was like, I have a a role that you might love. And then we had lunch a couple days later and she's like, I love this. And I was like, look. And by the way, then she started showing me like that she had John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: her own pet snake. Like she had her own pet snake and that she had a robot costume. Two things I wrote into the script before I ever met or knew her. Like I I know people are really into manifestation and all that, but I did something. Like something weird happened where it's like she her snake appears in the movie. Her snake's name is chicken. I you know I paid her a snake wrangler that that day because she brought in the snake. John C. Lyons: ⁓ yeah, that's ⁓ That's crazy. Yeah. Jill: This this amazing costume was made by another artist we put this in the movie, and as again, these are amazing production values that we got for like, you know, basically friend deal-free because, you know, ⁓ we I'm Lindsey's a producer on the movie. Like we're collaborating. Like it's like I'm trying to find a new way forward instead of like the ⁓ all right, like let's call let's call ⁓ John C. Lyons: Right. Jill: Everybody and be super upset the snake is being mishandled. I like, no, this is her pet snake. She's taking good care of it. We only did like two takes. Very we did very few takes for chicken. But again, it's like, anyway, I met her, she showed me these things, and then I and then we were also talking about our boyfriend and how she met him in acting class, and she was like, He likes a script too. And I was like, Well, this could be amazing. Like, this could be like something really cool that like we can just try and do. And but mind you, this isn't John C. Lyons: ⁓ yeah. Jill: Summer 2024, this is before Enora had come out or won the Oscar or even the Pom d'Or, right? But I knew that she'd been in it and I knew I like knew that it was gonna be a great movie because Sean Baker is a great filmmaker, right? So it's like, okay, like, you know, I I knew that like sh and that and also cause Lindsey's heart and and artistic intent is all in the right place. Like, you know, she she's very conscious of who she's working with and what kind of choices she's making. Just a just a very sovereign woman. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Sean Baker. Yeah. Jill: But anyway, so one I was like, come over to my apartment, let's read through the whole script. And I set up like three phones or like an iPad and a couple phones and recorded a whole thing from three angles as I got just like them reading like the first 70 pages, like I said. Like that that's just all them, them stalking each other, them seducing each other, them negotiating life. And it's like my movie is very herald and mod funny. And so it's like, you know, it's like their chemistry. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Jill: And then it's like, you know, the whole thing is like it's it's leading up to their like romance and kissing. And they kissed, and I'm just like watching this, and I just started freaking out because I was like, the chemistry is so good. Like my family's Filipino. We have this thing called kilig, it's like in in the Philippines they call me Jill Kilig-ton, because it's like, you my I'm I'm like romantic and cutie there a little bit more than than here. ⁓ Anyway, it's a squee feeling you get when you're excited about something. That's what keelig is, right? So John C. Lyons: Uh-huh. ⁓ Jill: I got that feeling when they kissed. I was just like, cause they look so good when they kissed. It was so genuine. And again, they're just holding back. They were actually like sitting right here at my little dining table. And I was just like watching them. And I was just like, okay, this is a movie. I know I can shoot this with them. I just need to like get better cameras than these iPhones and better lighting. And we will have something, you know? And it's like, John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: And then even if we shoot like the first 70 pages of the movie and then stop down and wait to get the older actor to do the rest, this will work. I can figure this out. This is this is a solid plan. And it was, it's obviously wasn't that easy because it took me from like that summer of 2024. I thought we would go into production like January of 2025. But all I had even investors lined up. I had like all this stuff, but then it's like, The election happened and then a lot of crypto bros lost money. And then January, the fires happened and all this stuff. But I'd shot these trailers for the movie. I like had a one-day shoot at a peer space where we shot all these trailers for the movie that make it look like it's already done and being marketed. And I was using that to create the tone for the feature and to test out crew and see like how low budget we are. It was just like, let's see how much we can shoot in one day in 10 hours. And we shot a lot. We shot like all these like. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: you know, as if they'd been arrested, as if they were in bed, as if they're like we did a lot of like different stuff and it turned out great. And I'm super thank you. I mean again, it was like John C. Lyons: I remember you posted that on on your website. This is so this is yeah, we we knew each other at this point and we were like keeping each other updated on projects and I remember seeing like you shooting this stuff with your cast already and I was and like you had the style down, right? You had the vibes and the filters and Jill: mean that's a thing. It's like it's because I'm literally shooting in LA, I've shot on like hundred million dollar budget shows. For me, the challenge was like, okay, I have like no money to do this comparatively. You know what I mean? Like like for that for that day of shooting, that was like I think I think I spent like 15,000 or something, 20,000. Like I way overspent because I thought like my investors would come in the next day. But again, that's so little money to shoot like a commercial or music video in LA. John C. Lyons: Right. And then you have a proof of concept. Jill: And definitely not at the level that I was shooting at, because, you know, like Lindsey was Lindsey, we actually shot that right before Lindsey became SAG even. So I had like two non-union actors. I could do everything non-union in a peer space here in LA. But it's like, you know, for me to have done that on any of these union shows I did or like big TV shows and movies, it's just like, no, like it would have been so expensive. So part of the lesson was me just like, okay, how do I shoot as if I'm a young YouTuber that's like never done all the stuff that I've done, like how do I get crews to show up for like $250 a day, you know? And it's like you you realize like, ⁓ DPs will charge way more than that because they're getting their rentals. So it's just like I I had to learn a lot about like just how the indie stuff goes. That's why I was I was going to a lot of like anybody who was shooting something during the strikes, I would come to set because I was curious how they were pulling that off, how they were not permitting or not permitting, paying or not paying. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: Like I saw a lot of people doing just like basically shooting parties where it's like, Hey, like everybody's here for free. Or in the case of my movie, it was like, Okay, I'm gonna pay you but as little as I possibly can without like, you know 'cause it really was like, ⁓ my god, like right after right all after all that happened, I swear we're gonna make the movie and then it's like LA's burning in January. I just spent all that money shooting this and didn't have have any idea John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: when we'd actually make our movie or when I'd get a job again and all this health stuff was happening my dad and it was just like, ⁓ my God, I'm running out of cash and I gave all this money to my crew and it it was crazy. But yeah. Anyway, I don't I don't s ⁓ self financing is not for the faint of heart, is what I'm saying. John C. Lyons: True. Right. Well, okay. So couple things. So it was a one day shoot. Did you storyboard it? Did was it just vibes? Like Jill: No, I had I had I'll I'll I'll send you links. I've made notion boards of like all the influences, all the looks. ⁓ I didn't draw as much because it wasn't really most of it wasn't being shot for continuity. It was like very scripted out because I'd also worked in like commercials and done trailers. Like I have a a Jill of all trades, a lot of experience in doing different things. But ⁓ but yeah, I I basically knew all the kind of shots we wanted to get and then just like we got like I don't know, I think it was like 58 setups in one day. Like my DP for that, yeah, my DP for that Michael Greenberg. I him specifically because he was very fast. I'd seen him work quickly on on that very location on the other movie that Lindsey was in. Or no, no, sorry, that was a music video that somebody shot a music video there. So I was a thing, really, I would go if somebody was shooting a music video and I had nothing else going on, I'd be like, hey, let me check this place out. And I'd be like, okay, I could use this peer space. Like this would be a perfect interrogation room. This bedroom could be the rich guy's bedroom. John C. Lyons: Sure. Okay. Okay. Jill: And so I basically structured things around that. So for me, using what I have access to and then somehow writing things that show up in front of me, I don't know, it's like it's like it's like a mix. John C. Lyons: Yeah, damn. That's really impressive, especially in LA. So like we Unearth started as a Kickstarter and we raised fifteen thousand and we ended up using that to do like a six minute proof of proof of concept. So you did it as like yeah, you shot basically trailers, right? How many did you get out of that? How many how many like videos or trailers or whatever did you get out of that? Yeah. Jill: I brought a yeah, I made a series of commercial I'm sorry? I mean, it's hard to say. I made like four, I think it was six distinct ones. And then I think on my site right now I have only like the last four or five of them ⁓ up because, you know, I tested out various scenes to see like, okay, do do I like the scene? Like there's a couple I end up like chucking and rewriting or putting in different places because of what we did on set. It was it was a great like dress rehearsal basically, with a crew was like basically the way we did it. John C. Lyons: For sure. Jill: But yeah, I I made a a whole a whole series of ads. Like I think it was like six or seven. Like my friend Steve, who was a great trailer editor who was out of work during that time, but now he now he works for a very successful YouTuber and is bought a house with it. But anyway, ⁓ he he helped and edited those at the time because he was bored. So it's like I have because I'm always ready, running around with like, hey, guess what Jill's up to? She's making this movie, wanna help, wanted support, like John C. Lyons: Nice, nice. Jill: People be like, ⁓ yeah, I'll I'll edit some stuff. I'm like, here's a hard drive, like seconds later, you know, it's like here's access to the premiere files and and the frame IO. You gotta cause it especially when people are offering offering editing help. It's like I I'll ⁓ onboard them so quickly because it's like editing takes time and it's like the one thing you it just really you need focus. And and it's like crew, crew you have to pay one way because they gotta be there on time and you've got ⁓ for like ten to twelve hours. But it's like editing, it's just like John C. Lyons: I'm ready, locked and loaded. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jill: like I I know how much I personally can get done as an editor in a day, but some scenes are harder to cut than others. Sometimes you have a technical difficulty, you know, like it's just like it's editing is really ⁓ the art form of filmmaking for me. So John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's so important. Okay. So I mean, I know you had so much going on in your personal life at that same time and had to have felt like yeah, looking back on it probably is so it was so overwhelming probably in the moment. But there's like some really good tips here of like, you know, if people are available and you have the opportunity and the stars align. Jill: Yep. John C. Lyons: Right. It's like you you took a solid day, you got your people there because when you're approaching investors and things like that, right? Like it's hard for them. Yeah. You have to show ⁓ something. Jill: You have to have something now. Like people I I was raised like, hey, you write a script and you hand them this piece of this little stack of paper and if you're a good writer, they'll love it. And it's like, that is never that's never how it worked, as far as I'm concerned. I mean, you know, like e that's why people needed agents, because you need somebody to convince you to even open this file or this piece of paper, you know? And then it's like John C. Lyons: Those days are gone if they were ever existing, right? Jill: As the industry has been changing and changing and now everybody's just on phones and everything's a screen. So it's you know, screen writer doesn't have the same meaning as it used to have. yeah, you just gotta catch people where they are. So it's like for me, fake while make it, ⁓ and I'm always making it. You what I mean? It's like every single one of these, like, like I I had my friend Jason Savvy make. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: Posters with me for the movie using key key art photo shoots that we did on set. You know, it's like, here, here's the key art. This is something we shot on set. Because when we were on set shooting those ⁓ those eight trailers I talked about, I also had my friend Sean Garrison come and be the set photographer so we could get key art like this. And like literally, when Ben and Lindsey were rehearsing at this table, you know, Ben put his hands up like this for a second. During the rehearsal, and I was like, wait, wait, stay like that. I was like, okay, let me take a fit picture with my phone. This is a poster. Okay, this is gonna be like our poster for the movie, you know? So it's like it's nobody loves and hates this movie more than me. You know what I mean? It's like I have to make myself love every second of doing it and then watching it, because I watch it over and over and over. And it's like I've had this idea in my head of how great it can be. The edit can actually be even better than that. between how great my actors and crew is and then all the wonderful artists I collaborated with, and then the magic of AI even. It's like there's so many ways to constantly be improving an idea. So yeah, I'm I've I think it's all worth every every every idea, write it down. Like think about what you really want, figure out how to how to achieve it. That's the the s ⁓ tips with everything as well as movie making, you know? John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: they sort of reflect what the movie was going be, but that all changed when we made the feature because I had a different cinematographer, the wonderful Rayana Rasamee ⁓ And then I also ⁓ actually managed to cast our Harry, who I kind of had like a guy and one of our friends Slater John C. Lyons: Sure. Jill: ⁓ in a cowboy hat pretending to be hairy in the trailers. But it's like you know what I mean? Like it's like some like at some point something looks great to you and then later on you're like, okay, it's cheesy, I'm taking that off the site. But it served its purpose, you know? John C. Lyons: Yeah, yeah. No, I think it would ⁓ I mean whatever you're okay with showing. Maybe Jill: Always. No, I mean I think it's good to share work and progress and just really like, you know, you invited me to talk about this stuff and clearly I love my movie, so I'll talk about it. You know. John C. Lyons: ⁓ good. Well then we'll pop w at least one of those in here and you can see ⁓ some other ⁓ materials at at Jill Kill, right? Jill: JillKill dot com go to coming soon, Mr. and Mrs. Death. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Okay, let's fast forward. We're gonna fast forward over raising money ⁓ and ⁓ let's get to like when you start shooting I mean you can allude to some of the challenges, but I do wanna save those for for the next part. Jill: I was very conscious of where it's like, okay, how much it costs to shoot per day with a feature ⁓ is ⁓ is the trouble. Like, you know, it's like I knew that the bedroom scenes. ⁓ John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: If we had to, we could go so minimal on the crew. You know what I mean? Like we go extra, extra minimal because you don't want a whole bunch of people in a bedroom when you're shooting, you know, ⁓ these people are supposed to be the only people in the world and really getting to know each other. I don't I don't I can't afford a big set that looks realistic in a movie. And then I just also think it's more practical to shoot, you know, very small crew at that time. ⁓ anyhow, we we got a Panavision grant. And that was one of the main like wow, we've gotta go. It's like my actors are free, ⁓ my DP is free, ⁓ and we have this Panavision grant that we need to use soon. So which we were able to get because I'm I was a first time director, even though I'm very experienced as a writer producer. This is my first feature and I'm not DGA. So that's the other way we were able to go with. John C. Lyons: You have to wait before you found out about that grant. Like how far ahead of time did Jill: we got it very very quickly because Rayana arranged that. So once we had that, it was like, okay, we're going into production. And ⁓ we missed the mark to shoot in November, like we weren't ready until ⁓ John C. Lyons: ⁓ cool. Cool. Jill: December second through like eighteenth and then picked up again like January twelfth, I think it was or something. So John C. Lyons: Okay. So how many total days did you shoot? How Okay. Twenty days. Yeah, yeah. And it was split for the holiday. Okay. Understood. Got it. And how is it did you shoot in like LA? Where did you shoot? Jill: Twenty, twenty days total. Yeah, that's all it really was. Like we didn't even turn in the gear, you know. Because Yes, ⁓ we shot in Alhambra, which is in Los Angeles, I guess technically, but it's like just east enough that ⁓ it has its own separate permitting for ⁓ filmmaking. So we shot without permits, but then started to get caught because we really were like driving in the street with car rigs, people were screaming and waving fake guns, and the neighbors started complaining. So at that point it was just like okay But again, we're very smart about like we're shooting that outside stuff last because like we don't want to get caught early. But ⁓ so we shot mostly at one of our producers, you know, Adam Stilwell's house in Alhambra. And ⁓ then we shot out that entire location, did a lot of exterior shooting there during that, did a minor shoot in a ⁓ vintage store owned by my friend ⁓ Cassidy called Catnip Vintage ⁓ two, ⁓ which is now closed. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: But we we were the I think the first and only movie that was shot there. And then so that was like that was a hard load-in day. But then we moved to a strip club ⁓ that we built in a friend's studio space in Hollywood, ⁓ that we called Titty Walk because it's right across from ⁓ City Walk, ⁓ Universal City Walk. But ⁓ that's the kind of humor you get from Jill Killington. More Titty Walk. Yeah. ⁓ but but so because ⁓ otherwise we because we were thinking of John C. Lyons: ⁓ wow. Nice. Nice. Jill: of shooting in real strip clubs was very expensive to shoot in real strip clubs. And the one that's the best for shooting in LA only lets you shoot from 5 a.m. to noon. So it's like every day we would have had to completely load out, disappear everything, every single piece of equipment, and then bring it back in. So it was just like a no-go. So we ended up building in a friend studio space. and then but that ended up like, ⁓ now we're a real movie. John C. Lyons: Alright. ⁓ Yeah. Incredible. Jill: Because we had just enough space for our crew of like about 30 people. And we had like a real parking lot. We're shooting in the parking lot. We had a couple bathrooms. We had like, you know, real kitchen facilities. And it was just like in the middle of Hollywood. This is great. Versus in Alhambra. we just had like weird problems from shooting in a house. Like at some point, like all the Wi-Fi goes out because too many people are on the Wi-Fi. it just weird, weird like it starts interfering with the signal between people's camera equipment and sound equipment. We just had like all these issues. But once we were in Hollywood at the studio, even though it's very small and basically just a small office space, we were dialed in there. And then the last of our shoot ⁓ we did at a house in Encino that was owned ⁓ all through the producers, we got another deal from a friend of a friend. And then we tried to permit for that, but there was absolutely no way we could afford to permit, like we would have John C. Lyons: That's the big guy's house. ⁓ huh. Jill: Yeah, yeah, that's that's ⁓ I I think I can talk about how I think did I talk about last time I'm about how Mr. Ray Wise is is the ⁓ the one they end up trying to kill in the movie. John C. Lyons: Yeah, you tea I think you teased it. I think you Jill: I So your crew was um like thirty? John C. Lyons: So your crew was ⁓ like thirty, you're you're thinking, like around thirty. Jill: ⁓ a little bit less than that a lot of days, but like it was it was hovering around like twenty ish, twenty two ish. Yeah. John C. Lyons: Okay. Yeah, yeah. okay. And how many locations did you have? I'm trying to remember. Jill: For this movie, I mean, we had a lot of like driving. Like that's particularly like what what what some of the expenses of this movie are. But at the same time ⁓ that's a little bit of a problem. But ⁓ we bought an old Buick 'cause that's what I wrote into the movie. and so that's like the hero car because just even to like borrow or rent it, like we need it to be banged up. We needed it to be like, you know. John C. Lyons: Yeah. How did you handle the driving stuff? Jill: Some place they live in, basically, like where they're all so many of the scenes are them driving around and talking. You know, it's like an old-fashioned ⁓ you know, it's it's that's how romance kind of is, you know, like the you get to know somebody in a car. So the driving we mostly handled realistically. ⁓ our lead Ben Peter does most of the driving in the movie, and he's non-union, so he was able to drive for himself and then Again, luckily, subconsciously, I must have known in my head, like, yeah, like I can't have my actor doing dialogue while driving a real car. But he doesn't have dialogue because he's got a gun to his head a lot of the time in these particular scenes. So we shot those realistically with like a lot of camera either hostess mount or camera and backseat or even hood mount a couple of times, but really ⁓ driving with a hood mount with the big Arri Alexas that we thanks to Penavision's grant. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Jill: ⁓ it's not recommended is a little dangerous. Like we might have done better with like Osmos or something like that, or or even just like a smaller FX camera. But anyway, ⁓ yeah, we we handle the driving realistically, but we're also doing standard B unit work and then also going to be shooting more pickups on volume. And then we did a lot of poor man's process too. Like Yeah. I mean it it's really it's a a mix of every trick in the book, you know. John C. Lyons: Okay. Gotcha. And you have If I remember you have a lot of night scenes, right? Jill: It's that's the thing. It's like I wrote it at night 'cause again, it's like, you know, a dark Noir killer movie. That's fun, but it's that's also funny. But it's also easier to blend places and times and everything else at night. And it n night's a little scary and sexy, so it's it takes place at night. But that helps us as far as like our locations, 'cause it's like woods all kind of looks the same mostly if you just light it just right and have the right kind of branches. You know. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So you're in LA. You're mostly without permits until you start getting in trouble. ⁓ how does yeah, how does that you just get tickets? Jill: We just paid tickets then. Yeah, and those actually ended up being cheaper than the permit. So yeah, little tip for you. But that was again in City of Alhambra, really nice place to shoot. John C. Lyons: No shit. what ⁓ location were you in the most? Like at the club? Trying to remember from the script. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Jill: ⁓ it's at the club quite a bit, but it it's mostly at Al's house. John C. Lyons: Okay. Jill: Like I said, it's a bedroom movie, you know. It's like it's into his bedroom, we're in her bedroom, and so ⁓ both of their rooms we just dressed in ⁓ Adam Stillell's producer house that were shooting in and also using as our hub. ⁓ and like I said, a lot of it's cars exterior. So at the strip we did most of the car stuff there, ⁓ like poor man's process and driving around there and you know, their their meet cute trying to kill each other confrontation happens like in alleys over there. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Okay, cool. ⁓ yeah, I mean it's gonna have a intimate intimate vibe because you do spend time Jill: 'Cause I can afford intimacy. Like that's a thing literally. It's like, what is missing from movies right now? Sex, anything reflecting realism of like how people actually interact, what they actually need. And it's like I wanted to p make a movie about people navigating the strangeness of attraction and a relationship while trying to make money and figure out the meaning of life and like what we're supposed to do with it and finding a sense of purpose and Getting through existential dread. It's just like it's, you know, I I am very Jillkill.com, but I'm also trying to like make a movie that's about something. Cause it's just like it's this is my chance to make the movie I've always wanted to make and see. So here it is. I better like it. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. were what were like your what were your main comps that you you would reference for for stuff when you were approaching people? Jill: ⁓ you gotta look at them and see what they like. You know, it's like when I'm talking to an older investor, have you ever seen Indecent Proposal? This is very much like Robert Redford and Demi Moore kind of movie. Like that's that's what I would sell it on. To young people, I would say, like, ⁓ man, like you know, you Luigi Mangioni, like how everybody like kind of likes a hot killer who's like, you know, let's debate, let's debate what he's trying to do here and the intent of him. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: When that all happened, I'd already shot with Ben and I was like, see, killers can be hot. Hot it's a weird thing, you know? It's like we all admire a killer in the boardroom and not in the bedroom. But again, it's like there's there's there's all these ⁓ it I wanted to make a movie about the the dark and the light of life. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's definitely got all of those vibes. For some reason I I I was thinking like true romance too. Jill: ⁓ absolutely. True Romance is definitely a reference. Absolutely. Like that's my easiest reference. ⁓ but more I've I feel like it's like a fucked up version of Before Sunrise a lot of the time. I feel like, yeah, and then it's also like Harold and Maud is one of my favorite movies ever. And it's like I I a lot of Harold and Maud influence, but really for me, like I love Bonnie and Clyde with with Warren Beatty and Faye Dunaway. I love Badlands. I love like the simplicity. John C. Lyons: ⁓ man, I love that. Yeah, same. Jill: And naturalism of just like capturing really interesting actors, feeling it out on camera, you know, I think it's cool. John C. Lyons: Yeah. So if people haven't put it together yet, what's what's like the overall synopsis ⁓ of the film? I should ask you that like ⁓ twenty minutes ago. Jill: ⁓ I've missed Sure, I'm sure I've said it over and over, but ⁓ basically a guy and a girl meet ⁓ unusual circumstances where he's trying to kill her. She she manages to always kill him back. They find something in common in that way, and they decide to go on a spree together and plan to kill a rich older gentleman and steal his fortune. But along the way, they find the true meaning of life. ⁓ The value of human life is what this is actually all about. John C. Lyons: let's talk about like where you are now in ⁓ kind of in the timeline of post. Okay, so you wrapped up filming in January of Jill: I wrapped up filming in early January and thought I would be done editing like my first cuts of the movie, like very early cuts. I thought I would be done by the beginning of March. And that is hilarious to me now because it's like I again I'm used to working on TV shows and movies where it's like dedicated post team at your service. I'd have five editors working. I'd have like, you know, AE's, like post supervisor, ⁓ like let's get all our deliverables in order, la la la la la. John C. Lyons: You know. Jill: I basically put all my money into production. Like that's the way we budgeted out. We made s we paid everybody so little money to shoot, but like it's so hard. I I was able to do that because I was shooting around Christmas and New Year's. But then everybody started going back to work a lot in like, you know, late January, early February. A lot of the editors that I had ⁓ contributing help and AEs contributing help, because I really just did not have money or somebody to do full-time editing for me. We had a lot of issues pulling in all the footage and getting it together and getting it all up and running because we were always editing remotely. My ⁓ main editor was in North Carolina, and then he had to drop out because his main job was going so well and he was working so much, and I honestly can't compete with those kind of financial rates. And editing is a months-long proposition. So it's like I I don't hold any ill will. He had to survive. So it's I had to find other editors while editing most of the movie myself. So John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: ⁓ as well as like keep on hiring AEs. Luckily, my EP was also a post, ⁓ is a post and VFX genius. So he managed to keep it all under the umbrella and help me set up the job to get it all edited. And then I also found a great AE remotely via LinkedIn. And the George Romero Foundation, this wonderful editor, ⁓ LB Lisa Bradley, she hit me up on randomly on LinkedIn and I was like, Can you AE this? Yeah, it's like again. Be open to the universe and however you find these things. So yeah, she she was incredibly helpful. She got me through January, February where I did not know what to do because I I just really could not afford any of my LA editor friends because it's like, you know, I'm basically trying to pay what people make in a week or a day editing in Los Angeles for a whole feature. And that's just like, you know, I kept on talking to all our producer friends. They're like, at this budget level, you are the editor. And I was swamped. I was so exhausted from shooting. I'd been through, ⁓ John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: Basically I funded this like in a in a very going through a lot of family ⁓ saga. And it's like all that came crashing down on me by like end of January, February. And I just like crashed out and slept for a month, then I started editing, then I started looking for help, found a wonderful editor, Dana Gasparine, who's like taking over editing now, but she edits on ⁓ amazing shows like For All Mankind ⁓ and Star Trek, Strange New Worlds. John C. Lyons: Yeah. ⁓ wow. Huh. Jill: has a very, very great ⁓ TV and film background for editing, like love her talent, but she was booked longer than she thought. And so she's only really able to like focus on the job and edit now. So it's like I gave her most of my rough cuts. I've rough cut like about half the movie now or more. And then we have assemblies for everything else. And so now we're really ⁓ focusing in on editing now and should have a rough cut of the movie and plan to be like picture locked like end of July, early August. Again, it's like, I hope that all that all works. But yeah, normally posts would go a lot faster for me, but I just didn't have the financing for it. Next time, baby. Yeah. It's just like really, did you edit your own movie or what did you do with your John C. Lyons: Yeah, I get that a hundred percent. Yeah. We ended up having to because we ran out of essentially enough money to hire somebody full. Jill: It's it's what happens. And it's like I again I knew I was like, I'll figure it out in post, unfortunately, as everybody says, but it really is like real that you it you can and you will, you know, and so it's like it's okay that's taking this extra time. only only it'll work out, but it's just like I I can't be so worried about how much time this takes. Because again, there isn't a I don't have a premiere date yet. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: You know, it's like I'm still I'm still getting more people interested. So thank you for for talking me through all this because I like having like indie film support group like this, you know? John C. Lyons: Yeah. No, it's important because yeah, like, man, we were in the same situation. So Dorota and I, you know, we were like, No, we are not editing our own movie. This is gonna make it better. We're gonna get an editor, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then ⁓ production went a little over budget well went bunch over budget for for us and ⁓ that delayed us. And then yeah, we had a one person that was attached, but they were like kind of way out of our league and they're like, you know, you're gonna need a lot more time on this than I can give you. They recommended someone and it just wasn't feeling right. And but it was like like you said, you finish production and you're like worn out and you don't wanna fucking think about editing your ⁓ your feature film at that point. Yeah. Jill: I mean, every day I would try to, but I was just like, I was so like, it was like adrenal fatigue. Like I'd been on such a a high key ⁓ fight or flight mode for so long because I had to do so much stuff to get the movie made and it was just like literally LA was burning and my finances were all screwed up. And so it was just like woof. So I just, yeah, it's just life, you know? Like filmmaking is a is a different layer of life, you know. John C. Lyons: Yeah. And life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well that's awesome that you Yeah, and then you you know, it really is coming down to like you don't have to rush it, right? Like you don't have a T V deadline, you don't have a theatrical premiere day. Jill: That's the thing. It's like I don't I don't even I'm not even like beholden to investors because I did end up self financing this in the craziest way. it's just like I'm beholden to credit cards, but we all are. Welcome to America. And you know, it's just like it's it's I I I'm taking the time to do this in post and like really enjoying it now because I I love my editors, I love my t my post team, like it's it I we know we're doing something great. We all we're all aligned. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. Jill: And it really is nice to not have you know, a network that doesn't understand or is trying to fit this into something. It's just like we're figuring out what this is together. And I'm just very excited to get to the point where I can start to screen this internally for like the crew and the other producers and then start like slowly like, Okay, I think it's let's figure out how we want to release this. Do we wanna wanna put like little teaser shorts out? Do we wanna like, you know, start s showing this ⁓ in sales directly? Like I'm in a weird position because it's like I'm talking to you as an indie filmmaker, but it's like I am literally sitting ⁓ in Hollywood everybody is just like so shocked by like backrooms ⁓ and obsession through and they're like, where do these YouTubers come from? I'm just like, you guys have gotta like look up from your screen sometimes and see what's going on in the world because this has been the situation for a while that people who have the freedom to go shoot what they want. ⁓ John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Jill: aren't waiting for permission or funding the way that we are in LA. You know, it's like I I I clued into this like 10 years ago and I was just like, I'd rather try it like your way, where it's like, let me raise the funds for something I want to make, than like the way I'd been doing it as a Hollywood professional, where it's just like, I'm gonna send out all these scripts and golly, I hope somebody likes it and thinks that it I'm worth investing in. It's just like you've got to really show people what you want to do. Like and whoever can do that and build an audience. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Well because that's how we've been that's how we've been told, right? That's how the gatekeeping has been. Like you have to do it this way, you have to go to these schools, you have to know these people, you have to pay your dues. You but like the YouTubers, they grew their own audience like audience is where it's at, right? People are like Jill: Well, it's like it's it's multi-level, you know. It's like to me, I I'm for me, the first audience of this is the people I'm making it with. I never used to be this kumbaya about filmmaking, but after doing some of like, you know, my favorite adapting my favorite books and having it be like such a weird business experience, so transactional, I was just like, There's gotta be a way to mesh the art with the art of living, you know, like we have to enjoy our lives. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you had been on the other side. You had done things properly. Yeah. Jill: It's happening, you know? And it's just like when I've looked up from production. Well, I'm just it's it's just, you know, like during the strikes, it was just like, guys, like I didn't think the way that we were making movies and TV was so fun anyway. You know, like it's like we were everybody's just like pushing out all these streaming shows and it's like all like kind of mush with no real voice, cause everybody's avoiding saying something. It's like I wanted to make something that is unique like you can tell that this has it's it hasn't been tampered with and smoothed down till it's nothing. You know, like it's like I want it to have a a a a sharpness to it. So John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. I remember reading the script and like the character came through the character and like the vibes and stuff came through right away and like the sexiness of it and like the action. Jill: But again, you thank you for liking that. But it's like a lot of people in Hollywood are like, why w your hero is like an incel wannabe serial killer? And it's just like, I'm sorry, but we all hate people a little bit in our hearts. You know what I mean? And like movies are a fantasy machine. You know what I mean? It's like it's this is the way we get our vicarious thrills out. Like, are we all gangsters and mobsters? No. But in some ways we share traits. And so this is like a thought experiment because this is a fun art project. You know what I mean? It's like it's people were so risk averse that it's like, yeah, Mr. and Mrs. Death, ooh, is creepy. But it's like, but you remembered it, didn't you? You know what I mean? It's like John C. Lyons: Yeah. Right. You know what, your characters like they're modern characters. Like they're people that are living in capitalist America right now and trying to survive with with everything with the rug pulled out from under them. Like that's that's the world that we live in right now. Like your two leads are like they are America, whether we want to admit it or not. Like Jill: That's it. That's it. That's what I'm saying. It's like we all are kind of, you know, who do you want to dance for and how much money can you make out of that dance? That's kind of the thing, you know? Or can you be a killer and figure out a different way of operating? It's just like there's I I shoved a lot of ideas and feelings and dance scenes and fantasies into this movie because again, it's like I'm I've this is what else am I doing with my life? You know? John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a g it's a good commentary on like gender dynamics and hustle culture. Like it's a I I c I mean, I can't wait to see it. I like enjoyed reading it and Jill: Thank you. Cause I'm again I'm enjoying I'm enjoying editing it. Like I was giggling with my editor on Saturday as we were editing together and it just like I I enjoy my scenes. And then there's other times where I'm like, my own movie makes me blush a little bit. This is like I'm telling you, man, we got some sexy stuff happening in it. So I've I want to I've I love horror movies. You know this about me. But I want to deliver as many feelings as I can to an audience and John C. Lyons: All right. Jill: therefore entice them to go to the movies or to watch the movies at home and keep coming back and coming over and over and over. And so keep on coming back for more. So yeah. John C. Lyons: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. how about music? What are you thinking of for music? Or do you already have music? Jill: ⁓ there's so many musical plans. As you know, I wrote in, you know, a lot of bands I like ⁓ and have a soundtrack to the movie in mind and I'm negotiating and like working on getting those rights. ⁓ I've got composers that we're talking to that are like contributing. We're doing a lot of temp music. Basically, this is gonna be a very music-heavy movie. And so once we picture lock, then we're gonna start going to musicians and working to get rights to songs and seeing how many needle drops we can get. And then yeah, we'll finalize like who's our composer and all that. So it's it's exciting times, but it's just steps and steps. So it's like I guess ⁓ by September we'll definitely be in music land, you know, where it's like, okay, this is we'll we're starting finalizing the score. But yeah, I have like Spotify and YouTube playlists forever and like my actors made their own Spotify playlist for the movie. Like it's we all want this movie to have a lot of ⁓ you know, just memorable things about it. And we love and remember and feel something with music. And because there's so much dancing. John C. Lyons: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Jill: ⁓ it's tripping. It's like we we need music. So yeah. If you if you have any ⁓ any contacts with great musicians, send them my way. John C. Lyons: Yeah, yeah. okay, so before we wrap this episode, ⁓ let's tease a little bit about ⁓ what we'll talk about in the next episode. So we kinda glossed over purposefully, the development hell and the fundraising ⁓ part of all this. And that's If it's okay with you, that's what I wanna dive head first into next time. Jill: Sure, sure, sure. Again, it's like I don't know how many tips I have for people other than like, you know, get creative with credit cards and somehow you'll figure out like when you start asking for money, it'll show up somehow. It's a weird weird thing. If if the intent is right, perhaps. John C. Lyons: Yeah, but Yeah, for sure. Well, thanks for ⁓ thank you for coming back and thank you for talking about Mr. and Mrs. Dev. Jill: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. I'm I'm I'm happy that our friendship can now be extended into a podcast. John C. Lyons: Yeah, absolutely. Until we finally meet in real life. Which yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you. we'll be back in a couple weeks with part three with Jill, and we'll jump into the nuts and bolts, and then we'll see where we go from there. Jill: In real life, eventually. Awesome. Yay. Thank you, John.