Latest / Beat The Odds with Dre, Rodney, & Brylan / Apple vs. OpenAI’s AI War, Codex Takes the Wheel & The Cost of Living Undisciplined

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Apple vs. OpenAI’s AI War, Codex Takes the Wheel & The Cost of Living Undisciplined · Beat The Odds with Dre, Rodney, & Brylan

• Dre: Yo, what's good guys? How y'all doing man? Welcome back to another episode of Beat the Odds. Rodney: Feeling good, feeling healthy. How you feeling, Brian? Brylan: Bro, I just honestly just got back from the gym, bro. ⁓ Yeah, I'm I'm I'm on a I'm on a run right now, just trying to lock in. And so the gym's been great. It's been the diet. The diet's been the tough part, bro. So right now I have myself on a sprint. Yeah, yeah. I feel like ⁓ I've been smoking a lot of weed and then I be going out a lot and having a ball so drinking a lot of alcohol. And then it ain't like it ain't like I cook. Rodney: Really? Brylan: ⁓ and so I mean not a lot. So them three them that that combo of those three things don't lead to a good future if you go go on too long. And so Rodney: I see. Right. Yes. Yes. Dre: Well at least you're aware of it 'cause some people continue on the path with blinders on and have no no idea that destructions at the end. But at least you like I know I can't stay on this path too long. So, you know, give yourself a little grace for being aware. Brylan: We had a No, we had we had a good run, but where I know we can get to, that ain't gonna get us there. So yeah. Dre: Sure. Yeah. Rodney: I can feel that I was on that path for for at least two years straight. For at least, at least two years straight. I was smoking, drinking, takeout, DoorDash, Uber Eats, Uber here, Live There, ⁓ staying out, staying out. So so so not only am I paying the cost in dollars, I'm paying the cost in health. Brylan: Man. ⁓ Rodney: And then I'm playing the cost in productivity, so future earnings. So pay paying the cost for multiple years. So I I understand. But like Drake said, it's good that you're aware of it. ⁓ 'cause you already know I don't approve. I cannot approve of what you care I cannot approve of that right now. I work for Immortals. So we can do what you want to do. But Dre: Ha ha ha ha. What what one thing I've been doing this week, ⁓ and I I I used to use it, but I just started back using it, is ⁓ my fitness pal for tracking like what I eat and drink. ⁓ and that's been that's been really helpful for just like being more like mindful of what I'm consuming. You know what I'm saying? And my diet already was I would say decently good. Like I don't eat a bunch of fast food and bullshit. I've lost a lot of weight over compared to like previous years, even like since I got married, I've lost probably like 30 pounds. Rodney: We can't stop that. Brylan: ⁓ Dre: So my diet has never been like horrible but I have like spurts where like I'm on the go so I might be eating a lot of bread or I might be eating a lot of carbs or just like eating a lot of just just things that's not good for you. Sugars, carbs, just shit like that. And mostly a lot of breads. And it made me realize, bro, like even when you think about like going out to eat, it's hard to escape like bread. Like it's hard. Like you you'll just pull up restaurants near me and it's like, okay, pizza, burgers, fucking something Rodney: ⁓ it's heavy. It's heavy. Everything's at least a thousand calories. At least. At least. Dre: Bro, something where rice is the base, so it's a bunch of carbs or pasta. It's like, damn, like what are my what are my options? It's like quick if I don't have time to cook for myself at home. So I've been like going to Chipotle and getting like you can get like a side of chicken. I literally just get chicken from Chipotle and then I'll get like a side of corn or something, like chicken and like the vegetables. Then like they're like, you don't want a bowl? I'm like, no, I just want the chicken and I just want the side and I just eat that. And it's been great. Rodney: ⁓ yeah. Dre changed his life up. Brylan: No bro. Bro, no Rodney: They're like, you don't want queso? They're like, they're like, you don't want queso. Dre: No. I'm good. I'm I'm good. I'm good. Brylan: You know you know what's crazy is ⁓ literally over the past few weeks, 'cause I have a have a Chipotle right across the street from the crib. And so that was one of my, you know, quick spots, go pick something up. And recently I've started doing something very similar. Like and what caused it for me was like, bro, I just I just noticed myself feeling very bloated. ⁓ after after eating Chipotle. ⁓ and when I started cutting out all the carbs, the rice, things of that nature, bro. Dre: ⁓ yeah. Brylan: Like when I say I feel totally different. Like and it and I and the other thing too is like I think I I I didn't really buy into the whole idea that like, you know, you you could experience brain fog because of, you know, the foods that you're eating, things of that nature. ⁓ but man, when I say when I say the the clarity in mind that I'm experiencing nowadays, having cut out a lot of stuff, bro, I really been on I feel like I ain't gonna sit here and act like an You know, like a nigga been on this for, you know, a good two weeks. Nah, nigga, this is three days in. So, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm speaking a little prematurely. ⁓ but man, these three days have been phenomenal. So Rodney: I'm happy to hear that. I'm happy to hear that. I'm happy to hear that. ⁓ as I said, I was I was a completely undisciplined man for most of my life. Probably from from the womb literally until maybe thirty one. And sugars, precious foods. Sleeping crazy weed drink I I wasn't I wasn't smoking when I was a teenager guys but but but but it it's it's the thing of Yeah, definitely I I I like the direction you that you're going and and and Dre by the way you know I could tell the thing is the the reason why I knew that we both lost weight because you can just look at our old videos and just look at the face. All you gotta do is look at the face. That's all you gotta do. That's all you that's that's all you gotta do. And don't it be like you look you look at your face and you're like, Why didn't nobody say nothing? ⁓ Dre: Yep. No, for real. You can see a big difference. A big difference for sure. Brylan: That's real. That's real. That's real. That's real. That's real. Rodney: But you know what it was? P probably know what it probably was. Dre: No, that's facts. That's facts. Rodney: I think that when you're getting a lot of money, people don't really say a lot. ⁓ Dre: No, that's facts. They let a lot of stuff slide. You can let a lot of stuff slide. Nah, that is hilarious, bro. No, I I I look at our old videos. I'm like, damn, or even like again, my wedding pictures. I have ⁓ you know my wedding pictures, our pictures that we've taken at the it's groomsman at the wedding, all of that, all over the wall of my house. I'm like, bro, like my face, everything just look it's crazy. It's crazy, man. I'm like, damn. Rodney: The last slide. Mm. Yes, I remember that. Yes. Right. We thought I I remember back then because one of the things that we did, we went to ⁓ we went out the country and ⁓ to the Dominican Republic and I remember I knew the trip was coming up, so I worked out for like three weeks. Like for like so I had like a little bit, like I I had like a little bit of like it was like a like a a month worth of Dre: Ha ha. Rodney: And and I look back at that and like wha and I thought to myself, why why did I think that that was gonna gonna gonna change? No, granted, I probably looked better than I would have if I didn't do that. But still though. But still though. We we we we we we were too focused on money, man. There's there's there's there's so many things more important than the money. Dre: Yeah, yeah. For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Facts bro. Lifestyle matters for the listeners, man. The way you live your lifestyle, what you eat, what you consume, how active you are, all of that shit matters, bro. And it compounds. The good, the bad, and in between. It compounds. Brylan: Wash. Rodney: Yes. Brylan: And he if you think about it bro, if you really think about it, man, you ain't gonna be making money for long, bro, if the health catch up, bro. Like no, bro. Dre: Quickly. Quickly. Rodney: Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. Dre: Bro, I think I think about that. I'm like, nigga, I'm one major disease from being wiped out. How do you think about that, bro? Not no no joke. I'm like, bro, because I there was like a there's a podcaster. Actually, he used to be the producer of ⁓ My First Millions podcast, very popular business podcast. I'm sure y'all both are familiar with that. His name is Ben. He just posted a video. He's in his 40s. So not not too much older than us, but about 10 years older than us. He's in his 40s, two kids, and he was just diagnosed with like a stage four. Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: Facts. Facts. Dre: very rare type of cancer. And literally the doctors told him you got like a year and a half. So it's an accelerated type of cancer. And he's fit, very fit, very slim, work out all the time, in incredible shape. Like physically in incredible shape. Eat good. Again, again, two kids, so probably always running around. And again, get this rare case of cancer and looking at a year living. And so that just got me thinking, like, I mean, shit. Time is ticking, man. So Rodney: Jeez. Hey ⁓ Dre: Live live his quote was live like you're living which I'm I love that I love that that sense which is don't live like you're dying, live like you're actually living. But you gotta be conscious that like that shit can catch up to you. Rodney: Yeah, for sure. For sure. For sure. And and it's stories like that are really sobering. Hopefully so there's like multiple ways people could take that. Some people say that and saying, you know what, why try? If I can do if I can work out and I can eat right and why try? But then there's also the other side of the coin where it's well you you try because because Just because there's an exception where you something happens doesn't mean that your efforts will completely go to waste either. ⁓ but that's a sad story. I did not know about that. And ⁓ I wish his family the the best. But yeah, so look, we're here ⁓ beat the odds right now. We were just talking about codex. So two things, two things, two things. Dre: Yeah, yeah. Rodney: OpenAI came out with a new model. And it's called Soul. They came out with three models: Soul, Terra, and Luna. But the primary model, the most intelligent one, is Soul. And that was released I I believe last Thursday. So a day after we recorded, so we didn't get a chance to talk about it. And it's Taking all the intention mostly out of the room. It is very high on many benchmarks, which is what we would expect. But I think that what is standing out about Soul is that it is near the same intelligence as Fable, but nowhere near the cost. And in the midst of all these conversations around efficiency and token usage, I think that's a big f fa factor in the market. And then the second thing is OpenAI also added codecs directly into well they just unified codecs into the chat GPT app. So there's not two separate apps now where you have Chat GBT and Codex. It's just one unified app, which is very similar to how you have Claude where they have Claude is one app, there's cowork, there's cloud code, and one UI. So essentially they're creating one super app. But we were just talking about Codex. And ⁓ I think just that natural conversation, there's something there as far as the value that we're getting out of it, but also maybe where the future of computing is headed to. Dre: Sure. I use both. ⁓ well I just started using Codecs. And primarily I think because you had mentioned it here a couple pods ago, I think you were using it, you used it to set up the automation for the podcast, right? So I think you've always been like pushing it. I think you're very early in terms of like the review and the quality of Codecs, even before the new models came out. So I was I I I had been hearing you talk about it. I'm like, all right, let me go ahead and give it a try. Cause prior to that I was just using Claw, ⁓ Claw Code and Cowork. Brylan: Mm-hmm. Rodney: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dre: And it's hard to describe because it's an intangible, but codex just feels better. Like I I th it's hard to describe what it is that makes it better. I don't know, y'all more in the technical weeze than I am, so maybe you can talk about the nuances of what makes it better, but it feels better. ⁓ and we were really talking about, you know, like how it pulls on the on the computer resources because you're running all these different parallel processes. And I'm like, Rodney: Right. Dre: Bro, I just need a dedicated machine. So like I have an old M1 MacBook at home and I got a p gaming PC. And I'm like, I'm about to just turn one of those into like a dedicated, dedicated machine is just running these these processes. Cause I really want to like max I don't want to say max out codecs, but I really want to push it to the limit. I want to see what can it really do. for me personally, but then for my business as well. So like one of the things I recently did with it would what it was is I had it, I set up a a bunch of automations to like find me deals. Rodney: ⁓ that's ⁓ smart. That's smart, yeah. Dre: that I'm sourcing. I'm currently in the process of trying to acquire additional companies, right? But I can't look at companies all day. I just got a ton of other shit to do. But there's a lot of brokers out there. There's a ton of companies coming online all the time. So basically I build automations to go find me these deals, go sign the NDA for me, go request access to the data room and all the perspectives, put all that information s in a place for me, build a memo for me, send me the deal memo. Like just Make it super simple. Just like streamline that whole process. So I was spending literally several hours a night of my time going through deals a couple of times a week. And now I'm spending like fifteen min fifteen minutes just like reading deal memos. ⁓ and that's just like scratching the surface of like where I want to take it to. But you know, it's just one small example. and you know again, you could do the same thing with with with claw code, I'm sure. But like that was just I I built that in one night to to be able to do that. Like just in one night and not many prompts and I'm getting a ton of value out of it. So there's a you know, there's a lot of opportunity, I think, for me personally and then again on the on the business side, ⁓ to continue to use Codex and figure out what its capabilities are. I am glad that it did consolidate into one app, although I thought the app rollout was a little bit shaky. Like Rodney: Yeah, it was it was janky, it was janky, it was janky. Dre: It was a little weird. Like I l I didn't have the new experience that people was talking about online, so I ca I had to read I had to delete it, then re download it again, sign in again and do it aga I I was just it was kinda weird. I didn't know if they were rolling it out to select people or if it was available to everybody. So it was a little choppy, but nevertheless once I got it downloaded, got everything set up. Incredible experience. Easy to import stuff from Claw Code. I know Brian You ran into some challenges with that, but I was able to easily import everything. So yeah, open AI is definitely Rodney: Yeah. They messed that up. Dre: doing something right with the strategy on clo on ⁓ codex. Rodney: That's incredible. Brylan: Yeah, I no, I I I I definitely agree. A huge shout out to you, Rodney, on just kinda being early once again, ⁓ on on on on something like that. ⁓ yeah, I think I I I agree with you. I I I I genuinely as a as a product, it's so well designed. I think many of the challenges I run into with like plot code, specifically like running, you know, scheduled tasks, it's just hard to stay organized, if I'm gonna be say be honest with you about plod code. Rodney: Yeah, for sure. Brylan: I don't think they're I don't think their routine tab ⁓ actually like organizes things very, very efficiently, ⁓ in my in my opinion. But with Codex that that was like super duper easy. ⁓ the other feature that I liked was even for like a routine task, instead of it creating a new thread every time, it could run in that same exact thread. That way if you gave feedback to the pre on the previous task, it had that context and could easily, you know, just you know learn from that. ⁓ that was one of the things that I liked. I think ⁓ a few other things that I really liked about this too was ⁓ yeah so these new models are running on top of Cerebrus. And I think that makes a lightning difference because part of the feel of these models is the speed. And so rather if you're using Soul, Terra, which are equivalent to Fable in like Sonic you know, for for Claude, ⁓ this the speed difference is it's it's huge. And I think, you know, we've talked about that in our in in our group chat, ⁓ you know, quite a bit. ⁓ and I think just because of that, like, yeah, I don't find myself when I do use codecs, like sitting around waiting too long, ⁓ or feeling like, damn, this is taking taking a little too long. It I'm not gonna sit here and say it's, you know, instant because it is agentic and, you know, whatever, but I mean that speed difference is you know those minutes makes a huge difference. I would say the other thing too that at least that I've noticed and I can't based off their blog posts, I know in their blog post they really emphasize that these models were like more efficient. But I do think it shows up in terms of like managing your usage ⁓ you know, that you get with whatever your subscription plan is, right? ⁓ and I feel like, yeah, with Clawed Code, ⁓ if I'm gonna be honest, like I'm paying the two hundred dollar plan. ⁓ I was the biggest ⁓ open AI hater ⁓ probably in the world ⁓ prior to this. and ⁓ so yeah, like I I didn't have a subscription and haven't had a subscription probably since I started hating on him. So it's probably twenty twenty four, probably. ⁓ but I definitely I I I I'm not gonna lie to you, I I definitely coughed up a hundred bucks. ⁓ 'cause I was like, okay, if I'm already spending two on on Claude. Dre: Ha ha ha. Brylan: Let me let me let me I'm probably if I if I wanna bring o over my whole workflow, I'll probably need something like that, but let me just start with a hundred. And I've gotten nowhere close to using like most of my usage within a week. ⁓ where I feel like with Claude I'm usually getting like, you know, I would say around like seventy to eighty percent, you know, within a week. ⁓ and and they're both doing the same the same work. ⁓ so I do definitely think they're winning on that efficiency as well. And I mean across, you know, the whole argument across the the the whole AI landscape for right now, you know, is coming back down to like cost. I do think, you know, efficiency does play play play a role in that. And so nah, this this is a huge win. Honestly, I think ⁓ when you take when you take the speed and efficiency and you also layer on the fact that like this is them now charting a new direction brand wise. ⁓ you know, with the soul, the Terra and the Luna. I whoever chose those names were genius. I'm we're gonna end up looking back and being like, There were genius. And I think I even threw in our in our ⁓ our group chat as well, like the rollout video that they even had for it. Genius. Like and so I think I I I I think this is gonna be a very ⁓ intriguing inflection point for open AI. ⁓ and honest honestly I could see them going on a ⁓ anthropic type run. ⁓ over the next six to twelve months, despite ⁓ you know, all the all the headwinds, you know, AI companies are gonna be facing. Dre: We didn't even mention the best part. We right before we started, we were geeking out about ⁓ computer use. Right? Like, it is real we we we missed it. That's the best part, is like go ahead. Brylan: We ain't even bruv. Hold on, hold on, hold on. What is compute? What is computer use? Because let's not act like everybody is making use of that. Dre: Yeah, I edit the simple edit's most simple simple form. It is the ability for codecs to use a web browser. That's how I would describe it. Is that is that how y'all would say too? Okay, right. Brylan: That's how I would describe it. Rodney: I'll go even further. I'll go even further. The ability for chat GPT to use your computer. Dre: Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I I it is beyond just the the web browser. I I'm overly emphasizing the capability of the web browser because for most people that's the portal in which you do your work, that's the portal in which you connect with your friends, ev pretty much do everything, right? But so yes, to to Ronnie's point, is much, much more bigger than that. The fact that it can run your whole computer is amazing. ⁓ but the fact that it's really good at using a web browser is even more amazing because Rodney: Yeah. For sure, for sure. For sure. Dre: I think a lot of people do again so much work in the web browser. That's the portal to the internet. And so the fact that it's it's become almost just as good as navigating that portal as we are and an ability to just go off and do a task and just get it the first time, even if it's your first time giving it that task, ⁓ is it's pretty remarkable. So I'm super excited to for that to continue to evolve and get even better because again I mean, we're on the internet right now, right? We use the browser every day. So the more capabilities that we can do to automate that experience unobstructed, right? Without blockers, without all these, you know, barriers that a lot of sites have tried to build to to block these types of tools, I I think I'm super excited for that. Brylan: wanna I wanna add something real quick. ⁓ because this was something that I noticed recently with Quad Code, but I also noticed that Codex does it as well. ⁓ but a few weeks ago, you know, I had mentioned that ⁓ yeah, just being able to like check your work have basically these verifiers are becoming very important for these models, being able to, you know, increase their capabilities. and so when I've been running like, you know, using computer use, Rodney: Es Brylan: when I click in and kind of see what it's doing, ⁓ is dope because they're actually creating these automated kind of like verifiers as it's actually doing the computer use to double check that it's actually clicking on the right thing or doing, you know, ⁓ following the trajectory for the task. ⁓ and I I think I think that's a a dope approach that they implemented. Rodney: Yes, yes, yes. For sure, for sure. ⁓ I think it's just incredible the entire thing. as Dre mentioned, the browser is a big probably the the primary thing that most people use on their computer. But then just the the simple fact that it's not limited to that. Simple things such as organizing your desktop, which cowork could do, but it has a more intuitive feel with codecs. And then I think that for example, when I use the the example of ⁓ automating your dating life, right? That is a browser, that is your messages, your messages app, and that's your notepad. And then also your calendar. So the fact that it can go between all that and then even with the podcast automation Yes, the browser automation is is is flawless, but also it's going to a website on the browser, creating clips, making sure those clips are high quality. So it's checking the the clips, then it's downloading the clips, and then it's verifying the clips are downloaded, then it's going to the YouTube studio, and then it's following a scheduling. Instruction based on a strategy that we've already ⁓ set. And in the last we've had, I'll put it like this: we've had over 5,000% growth as far as our YouTube in the last two weeks from these automations. And I think that, and there is a point though that Brian made about keeping up with the stuff. I'm at the point where Things are easier for me to do, but it is hard harder to manage all these things. Cause occasionally you might have a failed automation. Occasionally you might have a fail, you might have to check something, or maybe you were signed out of something because it can't sign you into something. It doesn't know your pa it doesn't know your password. It it can't verify two two factors. So those things it cannot do. But Dre: Okay. Rodney: Outside of that, it it's it's really good. But I would also want to say is that it's important though for everybody to remember a detail that Brian me ⁓ Brian mentioned, which is that You don't even feel like you get close to the limits, which which gives me the impression that we're not pushing enough. We're not doing enough on it. And so, yes, and and like I'm trying to stretch, I'm trying to free my mind. Cause it because our minds are the bottleneck. It's not it's it our minds are the bottleneck, and we have to free our minds. Dre: Yeah. Brylan: feel that way every day. Dre: Yeah. Brylan: Facts, facts. Dre: Yeah. Rodney: And a lot of times our minds are blocking us from even thinking about certain tasks. I think even one of the it might have been the ⁓ Greg from from OpenAI that said this, where now there are certain tasks that come to mind just because he knows he can do them with Codecs. But before, before that, before he could do them with Codecs, he just wouldn't even think about them. Like they existed, but it's just it's just like I'm not gonna even think about that. Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: And it's not like a conscious thing. It's just your brain may not even bring that to your to your to your to the forefront. So you can cre Dre: I a hundred percent agree with that, bro. Like the d the deal tool, the deal flow tool I was talking about, I had kind of thought about that maybe a year ago, like when ChatGPT was kinda out. I was like, okay, maybe that would be cool. But I I quickly like just closed it off. I was like, nah, that's probably this is probably too crazy. Too crazy, too much time. I don't even have time to I don't have time to even I'm a product person. I don't have time to even plan out what needs to be built, which I could do, but I was like, I just don't have any time to even dedicate to that. So I just quickly dismissed it. Rodney: Mm. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Dre: And then the other night, I'm like, I got a free 30 minutes. Let me just see what I can do in 30 minutes. Blew my mind. It blew my mind. Blew my mind. So yeah, we bro, in just 30 minutes. In just 30 minutes. So it I I totally agree. And I felt the same way, which was like, I'm like, where's the limit to this? That's why I was like, okay, maybe I need a a a dedicated machine that's just running this shit all day so I can kind of see what's Rodney: Crazy. Just thirty minutes too. Yeah. Dre: What's possible? Like what can I really what can I really do with that? So it's interesting. But speaking of continuing on this thread of open AI, should we talk about this Apple lawsuit that they just filed? This trade secret trade secret lawsuit, which I thought was incredibly ⁓ it has some pretty crazy allegations in it. So basically, ⁓ what was it? Friday, Apple filed a forty one page complaint against open AI for essentially Rodney: For sure, definitely. Dre: conducting a coordinated effort to extract confidential information from current and former Apple employees. ⁓ and there's a couple of things that kind of stood out to me from this complaint that I thought was interesting, right? They had a section in there that's ⁓ a title in there that said normalized and exemplified by leadership. Right. And so basically what they're trying to say is that this behavior ⁓ not only ⁓ cascades down to employees that are with an open AI, but this is something that is pervasive at the leadership level. And I know you guys remember months and months ago, and even now, there's always been this chatter about Sam being trustworthy. Can you trust him? Is you know, even internally there were conversations about is what Sam's saying actually true or not true. And Apple's kind of highlighting this as well. Like this is no, this is a leadership issue at at the leadership top. Now they also had another snippet in there, ⁓ where it said rotten to its core. And basically, well what what Apple what Apple was saying is that Rodney: No, wow. Dre: Everything that ⁓ OpenAI is trying to do from a hardware standpoint, at least a lot of the things that they're trying to do, is effectively being built off of trade secrets that came from Apple, right? And so there can't be any good in this because it's rotten from the beginning. They they're not using their own intellectually pro intellectual property. ⁓ they're basically still on our own property. There were messages back and forth between employees where you had employees at OpenAI sending messages to employees at Apple telling them how to navigate around security ⁓ features w ⁓ within Apple so that they can send information. You had current employees of Apple who were interviewing at OpenAI who are being asked to bring design schematics, who were asked to bring parts and materials to their interviews. So hey, show up to this is OpenAI interview and bring the device that you're working on. Bring some of the stuff that you've done. Show us some of the designs that you've worked on. This is internal company ⁓ documents and information that they're asking and messages. Like they have all of this information and messages. ⁓ they had tactics about how open AI how Apple employees, when they did put in their notice to leave Apple, how they should do it. So that normally when you put in your two weeks at Apple, Apple will immediately, as they should, shut off your security access and give you very limited access for the rest of the two weeks while you're there. They had very clear protocol that they would ⁓ ask Apple employees to follow so that they can get as much information out of them before they were cut off from Apple systems. ⁓ they also called out the fact that over 400 former Apple employees are working at OpenAI right now. 400. ⁓ specifically tied to Apple's hardware division. and so they're just you know pointing that out they're basically this company is essentially trying to extract Apple employees and extract the knowledge from these employees. ⁓ and Apple seems to believe that this is not only happening to them, but this is happening to other companies as well. ⁓ and then also, too, I found this interesting is that Johnny I, who used to be the chief designer at Apple, started a company after he left called I.O. It's a design firm, a design consultancy. that company, IO, was purchased by OpenAI last year for I think six billion dollars. I.O. is named as a defendant in this lawsuit. Apple is claiming that I.O. used their proprietary proprietary industrial design techniques that they acquired from Apple to help open AI. ⁓ and they're they're claiming that ⁓ they also gave them access to suppliers who have proprietary methods like machine methods and processes for making materials and components that essentially only I.O. would have access to because they were had a a contract with Apple and because obviously Johnny I but many people at I.O. used to work at Apple. ⁓ and so they named I.O. as a defendant, not Johnny I. specifically, but the c the company itself. and so basically Apple is really trying to fight this. I suspect Apple is also really trying to get to discovery with this lawsuit because during that discovery process there obviously is gonna be a lot more information that's gonna come forth beyond even what Apple was able to investigate on their own. I'm sure they didn't catch everything. ⁓ and so I think this is gonna be an interesting battle. I don't know how open AI skates around this, but I wanna g I'm gonna start by saying I'm going to and this may be the wrong side of history here, but I'm gonna give Sam and team the benefit of the doubt that they knew that this was going to come. And so I'm I'm thinking that they have some workaround to to to get out of this, but I don't know, it's really tough. These really tough 'cause it's obvious and clear that they they are taking their trade seekers. Rodney: Yeah, yeah, they they they seem guilty. They seem guilty. They seem guilty. Four hundred employees is a lot of employees. Maybe not a ton considering the scale of Apple, but still a significant portion of employees and naturally there's gonna be knowledge transfer that go that happens. So I but I don't think it's Dre: They do. Rodney: gonna be about that. It it does sound like Apple is definitely cla claiming that there were specific malicious intents to take over certain information and that is what most of this is about. ⁓ I don't know what happens and and but I would say though that I would add on to what Dre said and from the standpoint of if they were knowingly doing this, then I'm sure they have an idea of how to get around this and how to to beat this. This is not something that you can just do and think that a trillion dollar company is gonna do nothing about it. And Even when I saw Johnny with Sam It was interesting to see because even that visual screams guilty in some ways. Like like there's so there's some somehow, some way, the twenty years or however long Johnny was at Apple is going to be brought into op open AI. So of course OpenAI paid close attention or s Apple paid close attention to that. And ⁓ we'll see. ⁓ but maybe open the eye and Sam gets out of it, just like how he got out of it with Elon. And if that's the case, then we need to learn something from Sam. We need we need to learn something from Sam. Sam, one thing about him, and then I'm gonna pass it to Bryan, is that Dre: A hundred percent. Rodney: I'm learning a lot about speed from Sam. Sam is is has has influenced me and inspired me to not just say d make the moves that he's making, but just the idea of s if if you're just going so fast, like You can't be stopped. Dre: Mo momentum's important. There's all there in anything, you get momentum is it's hard to stop that. Rodney: Yeah, you can't be stopped. You can't be s it it takes a great alternative force to stop it. And if he's built up this momentum, whether it's whether it's Elon, Apple, whoever, if they cannot generate enough of that same counterforce, and you c you're not gonna stop him. But we will see. We will see. Dre: Do y'all think this is actually about trade secrets or is this more about trying to slow down a potential competitor? 'Cause we still don't know exactly what device OpenAI is even working on. We don't know if it's a phone, if it's a speaker, if it's a you know, a health wearable, right? If it's headphones, we ⁓ a computer, I we really don't know. There's speculation, but open AI themselves have not come out and say we are building X or Y. So we don't know. But do you guys think this is really about trade secrets and Apple trying to protect its proprietary technology and just, you know, following corporate protocol and policy? Or do y'all think this is Apple saying that, hey, open AI can be a real competitor and we don't want that. Rodney: I think it's both. I think it's both. But I would say it's more about slowing down. 'Cause it's the same thing with Elon. When when when it really when when a new competitor hits the scene that you didn't take serious and they really start picking up and they really start gaining momentum, it just so happens that all of a sudden there's a moral angle that comes out of the blue. There's a moral angle that comes out of the blue. And we know Apple is not the most moral upstanding company in the world. We know Elon's not the most upstanding and all the things he's done is not the most upstanding. But when a competitor gains momentum that you didn't expect, their their cases do come from a standpoint of, ⁓ they're cheating. Open AI is cheating. They're lying. They're not playing fair. They're doing these th it a lot of the accusations come back to that. So it does seem to me personally that it's motivated by not wanting to see if they will be able to come up with something that will be able to compete. And ⁓ but at the same time that begs the question, why would they be wor worried? Because I honestly at the current moment I cannot see something that open AI comes out with being significant. And we could talk about that new codex device and another time, but I don't know, what do you what do you think, Bradley? Brylan: Yeah, I think I th I th I think Apple is ⁓ yeah, I I I I I I definitely agree with you with like the competitive angle. ⁓ part of it part of it might just be ⁓ the fact that like yes, we've had like, you know, the Amazon Alexa and then, you know, Apple's had Siri, but yeah, with these models I do think it's unlocking a new kind of frontier ⁓ in terms of like a product. ⁓ And no one's really captured that yet. I think you had some of those new like startups like Humane and you know, like what was it, the Rabbit that came out that tried to capture that market, but no one's really like, you know, captured that yet. ⁓ the thing that is interesting is ⁓ I was just reading into this is the strategy Apple is taking when it comes to the law. And so specifically what Apple is trying to do, it's called a preliminary injunction. Where basically ⁓ this doesn't mean that open AI is guilty anything, but if Apple is able to win this, the court can order ⁓ open AI from like doing anything while while the trial and the loss lawsuit is still going. And so the reason why it's important is ⁓ I think there's I think there's a few ⁓ different angles. The first one is ⁓ Rodney: That's ridiculous. Brylan: The first one is obviously going to be related to like the trade secrets. ⁓ so anything that is being considered a trade secret, it can be all the way down to like the materials used, all the way down to like the polishing of the design, the metals, whatever. They just have to pause. Doesn't mean they can't do it, but while this lawsuit is going on, it has to pause. And as we know about these large corporation lawsuits, they take years. And so theoretically, that would mean Dre: Okay. Brylan: OpenAI would be date delayed for years. I think that trickles down into the second piece, which is ⁓ yeah, it's reported that many of the suppliers for the products, the hardware products that open AI ⁓ is is is is partnering with to like build and manufacture this, they're partnered with Apple. And so ⁓ basically what they're saying is Apple has leverage because they brought these companies billions of dollars over decades. And why would that company, those companies or those suppliers want to lose that revenue from Apple to some new upstart? And then the third thing too is it it potentially delays if they're able to achieve this preliminary injunction, it potentially delays the IPO for open AI because oftentimes public investors aren't looking to, you know, really kind of take on that much ⁓ you know, investment or put that much capital up if you have such a big lawsuit. ⁓ kind of like hanging hanging over the head ⁓ as well. And so I think if I'm gonna be honest, I I like I don't I don't know if Apple really wants to win this case, versus more so the win for them is slowing open AI down from potentially entering this, you know, new adjacent market that is be cr being created before Apple does. And the real the real the reality is Dre: Mm. Brylan: Whoever nails that product potentially could have first mover advantages. And I think the reason why OpenAI is a competitor is because the billion plus consumers that have signed up and use Chat GPT. If that was not the case, say for example, if that number was ten X smaller, a hundred million, perplexity. If perplexity was to go build a hardware device, do you think Apple would be suing them? No. They we we'd be sitting here not having this conversation. And so I think because open AI one has ⁓ the easier story to tell is they got these trade seekers, these employees. But I think the bigger thing is they have distribution to where if they were to make this product, they easily can, you know, basically take up a good chunk of this new market, ⁓ as well. And the other thing too we have to we have to realize, unlike software, hardware takes time. And so Dre: Mm. Brylan: Say for example, if OpenAI did put something out, it's not like Apple can immediately just go manufacture something overnight and then get it out to literally, you know, millions or hundreds of millions of people. Like you need special tooling, all that other stuff that we've talked about. So I think the I think the real win here is for Apple is going to be like slowing down the launch of a hardware device. ⁓ you know, outside of the one they just recently launched. hopefully, you know, for like a year or two so ⁓ Apple enters the market ⁓ before then. But that's just kinda like my thought. Dre: Mm. That's interesting. That that I mean y'all y'all both bring up good points. I t I think I think this argument is more subbaked in principle than trying to slow down. I think Apple just kinda moves like a cartel, so to say. Right? Like they move like the mafia because they can. Not because they need to, because they can, right? And I think to get to where they've gotten to, you kinda gotta be that way. Especially with suppliers, ⁓ you know, with the market, with Everything, right? ⁓ and I think back to a book that I read about Uber. When Uber was facing a bunch of fraud in China, during Apple's whole switch over to privacy, they basically they used to have a feature where you can like track devices. Like you could literally like read like the device serial number for Apple device. And they've since changed that to now you can't do that. Or at least I don't know if you can do it now, but they had changed it at one point, you couldn't do that anymore. And And Uber had this problem where basically they were having people download Uber in China and commit fraud, right? Obviously d use a fake profile, do a bunch of fraudulent shit. And so what Uber was trying to do is like shut down the account, but also shut down accounts from being created on that device in the future, period. Apple made this privacy change broadly. It obviously impacted Uber tremendously, especially as they were trying to scale up in in China. And so what did Uber do, right? They built a workaround. They found a back door. And it worked. It was successful for them. Apple didn't even know they were doing it. They figured it out. And then Apple found out. And they weren't happy. And when they found out they had Travis come into the office, they literally told him, and this is in the book, like, if you ever do this again, if you ever pull any stunt like this again, that goes around our protocols, that goes around our processes, we'll ban Uber and it'll never be on the marketplace ever again. And that's just the it and that it Rodney: Hmm. Dre: And it's a a little bit of a different circumstance, but it's the posture of how you approach a partner. Let's not forget OpenAI was a partner of Apple, right? It wasn't that long ago where OpenAI rolled out their Siri integration. I still get it today where you ask Siri a question, and this I hate it by the way, it's a horrible product experience, but you ask Siri a question and it's like, ⁓ you use Chat GPT, right? So th they were a partner of theirs. And so this isn't new for Apple. Where it checks its partners when it feels like its partner isn't behaving in a way that it wants. And I'm not saying that OpenAI isn't doing something that is worthy of a lawsuit, but this is a similar pattern of just how Apple moves, even with their suppliers, right? So I think this lawsuit is ⁓ less about trying to slow them down because realistically, I I don't think OpenAI can compete with Apple, like on hardware. I don't care what they do, I just don't think they can compete with. Rodney: Yeah, th I I don't think they they can either. I yeah, I don't think they can either. Dre: So that's why I don't think it's about that necessarily. I think it's a principle stance of like you're not gonna betray us because we're Apple and we've earned the right to defend our position and we will defend it no matter what, irrespective of whatever we think is trying to be happening, we're gonna defend it. And so I don't think it's about ⁓ open AI is scary because they have a billion plus users, like bro, nah. I don't I I don't think it's about that. Rodney: ⁓ so the slow so in your mind they're they are trying to slow them down, just not for the purpose of being worried about them. Dre: Yeah, I don't think so. I think it's just a more of a pr a principal position of just like how Apple thinks about its position. And then if they're if you're doing something they don't like, like they don't they p just think about it. They probably don't like the idea that you've had four hundred plus highly qualified, highly capable, highly technical, highly specified individuals. Yeah, like that doesn't feel good. And most of these roles were taken from their hardware division. So it's not like they cherry picked all over the Apple no. Rodney: I see. I see. Ha ha stole a talent. They need that, yeah. Dre: They literally went to hardware design and was like, who's the best in this component? Who's the best in this? And literally stripping those assets away from Apple. So that that in and of itself is just like a no, you're not gonna do that to us. I don't care what you're doing it for, you're not going to do that to us. And so to prevent you from doing that to us, we're gonna operate in principle and we're gonna sue you. I think it's about that. Brylan: So let me let me ask this, because it's very intra it's it's it's very intriguing that like this lawsuit is around hardware and the new CEO of Apple is hardware. Right? ⁓ who made that decision? You think it was like a board decision? He led that decision, like Rodney: ⁓ He might ⁓ he he might ⁓ that'd be interesting if he was upset about that. Dre: Which decision? The decision for the lawsuit? Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: Yeah. Dre: Yeah, I this feels like the legal team all over it, man. Rodney: Yeah, I yeah. Yeah. Dre: This feels like legal or or or you know, I don't know, because in the case of the Uber situation, it was it wasn't Tim Cook actually. It was ⁓ I think it was Eddie Q. 'Cause Eddie Q runs the app I think he runs the app store if I'm not mistaken. So like in that case, it was in the book at least, it was him who made that call. Tim Cook was a part of it, but it was really him that was driving it. So I don't know. It could be whoever's running hardware or legal or it could have been the new CEO. I don't know. It's tough to say. Brylan: Yeah, so I'm looking. So yeah, Bloomberg reported that ⁓ OpenAI's current chief of hardware, him him him and the the new CEO, so John Turnus of Apple, they had a very sour relationship. ⁓ and it got worse because before John was named the new CEO of Apple, all those employees were coming from his team. So they've been coming at my man. Dre: Yeah, yeah. So we'll see. This could be interesting. Apple got the pockets to drag this out as long as they want. ⁓ OpenAI unfortunately doesn't, so we'll see. Rodney: Yeah, that's interesting. That's interesting. So s so I I so we could go off of AI and we could talk about StubHub. There was a pretty interesting case with ⁓ Stubhub. ⁓ there was a class action lawsuit filed against Stubhub and the founder Eric Baker. Dre: What's next? What else what else what else we all want to take it to? Rodney: And it's alleging that there was fraud and and deceptive practices where essentially Baker owns a hedge fund called Andro Capital that resells tickets to step up. So this is seemingly was discovered through some SCEC SEC filings. And it's been active since 2008. I'm not sure when Step Hub was founded, but may it probably was founded ⁓ either around that time or shortly after. But they're essentially saying that these undisclosed relationships misled ticket buyers and potentially affected prices, but then also I think the tipping point may have been the World Cup. There was a lot of cancellations. I'm not exactly sure how that all relates to this lawsuit, but ⁓ this is an interesting story nonetheless. Dre: I thought it was very fascinating. ⁓ I dropped it in the chat. So I there's another component to it. So yes, the CEO is a CEO of Stub Hub. He also runs a private equity firm that resells tickets on Stub Hub. But then he's also an equity stake owner in another company that provides funding to companies that want to essentially scalp tickets at scale. So what does that mean? So basically Stub let's let's take a step back and actually break down what Stub Hub is 'cause Stub Hub This is a pretty unique marketplace. So it's a peer-to-peer marketplace for people to buy and sell tickets. ⁓ think about it like eBay for tickets, not like an Amazon of tickets, meaning Stubhub themselves do not own and hold tickets. They just allow people like myself, if I purchase a ticket, let's say from Ticketmaster, I can't go to the concert, I need to resell it. I can basically go onto Stub Hub and resell my ticket to let's say you Bryant, and then you can buy it, and then you go to the concert. So it allows me and you to exchange peer to peer. And basically these are there are these professional private equity firms that are backed by hundreds of millions of dollars or even billions of dollars who essentially raise capital, go out, buy tickets when they immediately go live. They probably built systems to automate this whole process, of course, it's not manual, right? They built these automated systems that they've invested hundreds of millions and billions of dollars into to snatch up tickets immediately from marketplaces. And then you as a consumer, when you want to go and directly and check out that concert, there's no tickets available. So then what do you do? So then you go to Stub Hub, right? Where there probably is someone who can't make it or whatever the case may be wanting to resell their ticket. But not only are there people who can't make it, there's also these institutional firms that are reselling these tickets at significantly higher prices that they're buying it for. So not only is he the CEO of the marketplace. He's also running ⁓ well, probably one of the largest resellers essentially on StubHub. And then not only that, but then he's also funding ⁓ his operation and then probably other subsequent operations to essentially go out, acquire tickets at massive scale, and then bring those tickets onto Stubhub for the purposes of reselling them. And so look, is this criminal? Probably not. But is this a conflict of interest? Absolutely. Like so I think this is a this is not really about like criminality here as much as it is about that shit just sucks. I mean think about it as a consumer. And ⁓ I'm pretty sure we've talked about it before. ⁓ was it Live Nation who ⁓ lost their antitrust case for a similar type thing of having control over live experiences and venues and tickets and all of that and creating this lockdown marketplace that made it really hard to compete. I think We we spend a lot of time talking about AI and computers and technology in a world where Here's a significant value in in person experiences and just experiences in general that get us offline, get us stop looking at our devices and get us in person. I think those experiences are incredibly valuable and worth even more now. And so the fact that you have big institutions like this guy kinda gaming the system from behind this the scene, kinda pulling the strings, so to say, ⁓ it just sucks. So again, is it criminal? Probably not. But is it Rodney: Yes. Dre: Just sucky as a consumer and as a person who would probably not use Step Hub, yeah. Brylan: Yeah, I think I think what is I I'm not gonna sit here and act like I'm well versed in ⁓ or up on this story, but like yeah, literally as y'all were speaking, ⁓ about you know him being CEO and then having economic interests and like, you know, fund and and all that mess, it reminds me of Citadel. ⁓ and the reason why it reminds me of Citadel is because Citadel has ⁓ you know, their Citadel securities, which is like the market making business. very similar to, you know, ⁓ Stuffa. But then they also have Citadel Hedge Fund, which trades actively ⁓ in that same market that they're creating as well. ⁓ I think kind of what is ⁓ intri cause like in my opinion I can see it like I can see somebody applying that very similar strategy and making that kind of money. I think the thing that probably makes this a little tougher is it seems like Yeah, their whole brand position and trust that, you know, fans ⁓ had in them was built upon it being neutral versus like with Citadel, they tell you exactly what it is. Like we make the market, but we also make money in our own market that we're making too. And so yeah, I I it it seems like the yeah, the conflict is really more so like trust rather than like the arrangement. if I'm if I'm gonna be honest. And so I'm I'm I'm I'm very curious to see like how the SEC like rules on this one versus it being more so like a brand impact for, you know, stuff up. Rodney: I y ⁓ yeah, I wanna see what the SEC does. To me it seems like clear violations. ⁓ and it's definitely misleading to customers. The thing is though, is that I remember seeing maybe a few I about a year ago there was this engineer and and He just happened to be black. He i it's not really relevant, but ⁓ he he just happened to be his black engine hair. And ⁓ he was making five hundred thousand dollars a year at Stubhub. And he came out with a a a YouTube video essentially saying that hey, he got fired for exposing that Stubhub was what exactly what what is he saying? Basically he was just saying that there's a lot of shady stuff going on as far as the pricing and the price fixing. And they kept ignoring him, but for some reason he kept bringing it back up to management and he like 'cause he's an engineer, so I think he's looking at it like this this problem. We can see it, we can fix it, we can address it. And he just kept bringing it back up t to the the higher ups and eventually he got fired. And And the people in the comments they were they were killing them because they were like, Look, you make five hundred thousand dollars. If you see something, just don't bring it up once or twice, and then once you after that, stop bringing it up. Stop bringing it up. They don't want to fix it, they don't want to resolve it. I do not know if it was specifically related to this. It sounds or it rhymes with this, but ⁓ Stub Hub has been known to be shady before this lawsuit. Dre: Yeah. Mm. I didn't know they were paying like that. I think I think we know our mutual friend that works at Stone Part, right? Like they they get in the bag over there. I didn't know. Rodney: ⁓ crazy. ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he yeah, he's yeah, he's he's there. He's he's a bad he's he yeah. And I don't think ⁓ our friend that is currently working there. I'm pretty it's so much funny, I saw that video and then maybe a month later our friend got hired and I'm su and I was like, did he replace this spot? But the funny thing is, our friend ain't gonna say nothing. He just gonna get his money. Dre: Yeah, yeah. D. No, no, no. He d he there for the bag. But I didn't know they were paying like that. That's crazy. I mean shit, they're making and their margins gotta be sick crazy. Rodney: That's about that's that's like thirty five cash. That's like thirty five cash a month. I'm talking about after taxes, that's about thirty five a month. Dre: That's good, Brett. Yeah, I would have been quiet. I wouldn't have said shit. Or like you said, you may say something one time, but after you you catch on, you're like, All right, bet. Rodney: Right, right. Work on something else. ⁓ the I actually know you know what's funny, I think just in case, I think I did send it to our friend, just so just so I could say, Hey, like don't don't go look it, yeah. Don't go look it. Yeah, don't go look it. But yeah, he's there, he's there. ⁓ but ⁓ but yeah, no, they're paying cra I I didn't know that either. Dre: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Yeah. Yeah. We call. She's become. Rodney: But they ha they clearly they they have tons of money. They have tons of money. They they charge people whatever. They don't really have that much competition. It's it's no big deal. Dre: ⁓ yeah. Crazy man, crazy. Well we'll see how that plays out, man. A lot of lawsuits in the air right now. So some of this stuff will take a while. ⁓ we'll try to keep everybody updated on how these things pan out. But crazy times, man. Do we wanna wrap it up there? Rodney: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, let's wrap it up. Let's wrap it up. Dre: All right guys, this is good one.