Latest / Off The Shelf With Phil and Dave- A Movie Review Podcast / 1991's The Silence of the Lambs

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1991's The Silence of the Lambs · Off The Shelf With Phil and Dave- A Movie Review Podcast

• 0:01
  Hello and welcome to Off the Shelf with Phil and Dave, the
• 0:06
  movie talk show where each week one of us takes a movie off our
• 0:08
  shelf, presents it to the other end, discusses it at length.
• 0:21
  This week we've got coming off of my Shelf 1991's The Silence
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  of the Lambs, directed by Jonathan Demme, starring Jodie
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  Foster, Anthony Hopkins. Slew of others.
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  Absolutely, Scott Glenn. We really need to talk about
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  Scott Glenn. Absolutely.
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  The moment. Go past.
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  Here we are, David. We're back on the couch.
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  How are you? How are things and what are your
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  instinctive thoughts on this movie?
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  Had you seen it before? Talk to me.
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  I think you know the answer to that.
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  I am doing very well though, Phil.
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  Very well, Very well. Tell me more.
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  Had a nap refreshed. All right, My cough.
• 1:00
  Your energy's high. I want to be clear.
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  You're coming in. Pretty high.
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  I have to step it up for your movies.
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  I got to compensate. Sure, they're coming in in a
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  negative point. 5 right? It's these boring Oscar movies.
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  That's right. We've been bringing off a lot of
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  hits lately. But yes, Philip, I am well and I
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  have not seen the movie, but I'm going to tell you why.
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  Please. I think I can justify this one.
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  Oh, interesting. OK. 1991 I'm 13 yes well yes
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  check it do the math I'm not permitted I come from a family
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  that respects the law. Most importantly, still do it
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  would be 5 years before I can legally watch it.
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  OK, OK. By then it's the hype is kind of
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  come and gone. It it, it's a movie that you do
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  hear about though, because it did win many awards and it the
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  big 5 and it was known to be very visceral.
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  Is that correct? And the reason why I continued
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  to not watch it, I wasn't like purposely avoiding it
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  necessarily, but it was in a genre that I wasn't really into.
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  So I that was it. Like I'd so I just never really
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  got to it. I didn't know exactly what it
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  was about, but I got the impression that it was very
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  graphic. OK, now that's 91 and what is
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  graphic in 91 may not seem as graphic now, which we can
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  certainly touch on. For you being someone that had
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  probably seen it, let me guess the year that you saw it, You're
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  you're younger than me, so I'm going to say you saw it in 93.
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  92 you were. Sicky.
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  Yeah, it would have been. Late 92.
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  Well, whenever it came out on video, so I don't know the exact
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  date, but yeah, back then it came out in 91, eight months
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  after probably the fall for Oscar talk.
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  My family just, we didn't have any of those types of
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  restrictions as you're describing, and they were all
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  movie people. So this was the big Oscar
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  winner. We watch the Oscars every year,
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  so it wins the Big 5, much like the Cuckoo's Nest movie that we
• 3:00
  talked about just a couple weeks ago.
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  So Yep, it's in that echelon, that pantheon.
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  And so if it was on video, we came home and we watched.
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  It and it's simple and it is part of that unique group of the
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  five, only three, only three. There's the last one that that's
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  done it so you and this is the second one that you've brought
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  off. It's a we've done a lot of
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  single hits lately. It was Shawshank last week and
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  and Kaku. Yeah, we had done some hits.
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  We kind of overwhelmed perhaps on the sequel talk.
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  So. We are we step back just a
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  little. Bit I'd say so we took a wide
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  turn. What I want to ask you, however,
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  since you were talking about the genre, if you will, now having
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  seen it, would you put it in the horror category because it's
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  often loud? It is sort of this the horror
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  movie that won the Oscar, you know, Yeah.
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  Or would you put in the sort of more crime procedural thriller
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  kind of vibe? Very good question.
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  Very good question, Philip. And I'll answer it here.
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  Right now. I would say watching it in 2025,
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  I would say it's a psychological thriller.
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  OK. So it's funny in the fact that I
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  actually kind of like psychological thrillers.
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  Oh, so this movie eventually got into a category.
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  Sure. With age, yes.
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  That I kind of like. Would you?
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  You didn't care for it back in the day.
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  I don't think I there. Was no one talking out of their
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  asshole in this in this one? So I know that that's true.
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  Which is my only known reference of this movie sweet spot.
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  Which is funny because in Ace Ventura he says hello.
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  Clarice, right? That's Ace's line.
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  Sorry, cable guy, my mistake. You can see where I made the air
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  there. But Jim Carrey nonetheless.
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  Yes, yes. And I think it's a Star Wars
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  situation because I don't know if he ever actually says hello.
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  He says good evening and goodbye, but I don't know if he
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  actually ever says hello. Clarice if Lecter, yes, in the
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  actual movie, this might be I am your father kind of thing.
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  Sure, but we'll dive into that later.
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  Not now. I want to get back to what you
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  said about me liking psychological thrillers.
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  I am a little bit picky though. Sure you want them good monk
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  like well. I really latch on to clues,
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  which is ironic because I never grew up watching Blues Clues so
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  I don't know where this affinity for clues came clues came from.
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  I need to. I did enjoy the board game Clue.
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  OK, Yeah. I love to be Mr. Green.
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  Obviously, I don't need to explain that to you.
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  So I feel like this movie would fall into that now.
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  But I do not like something that's incredibly graphic.
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  Like, you know that I know that that's never going to change.
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  But I, I want to hear from you about how it felt to watch a
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  movie like this at a ripe age of 13.
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  Were we not really desensitized at that point, maybe from seeing
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  all those things on film and how they, you know, show the
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  pictures of it And, and obviously we have the body and
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  the morgue at one point. Yeah, that's great.
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  And you, I assume you've watched this movie like in between, of
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  course, since about 13 and then wait until you're over 40 to
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  watch. It no I mean but it isn't 1.
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  I watched like frequently. I would say almost maybe five
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  years over that, OK, But I was a fan of the slasher films that
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  we've watched many of them by the time I was 1011 already.
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  So you already had a taste. Yeah.
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  And so, you know, Nightmare 4 coming out in 88, I probably saw
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  that in 8990. So this is nothing to you.
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  So in fact, I would put this in like, not at all graphic.
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  Even watching it now, there's a lot less viscosity, as you say,
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  in like the visceral nature of it.
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  I I don't really see a lot of it.
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  The reveal of the autopsy was jarring.
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  Like that was like, oh, that's Zach then.
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  Yeah. And then the.
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  You're like eating chips while. You're watching it, it means
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  nothing. And then the moth in the throat,
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  which is just more of a that's cool, cool, but it's gross.
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  Like contextually, not itself being gross.
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  I found this very tame even back then, which is why I found it
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  strange that it would be sort of heralded in all these years.
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  Is a horror movie The first horror movie to win?
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  Yeah. Frankly, almost any Oscar let
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  you know, let alone best Picture.
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  It was well marketed. Of course it was well marketed.
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  That's it's a brilliant movie, Right?
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  Like, there's nothing wrong with it.
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  I just it's it's easy, buddy, isn't it?
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  Something's wrong. But it's it's it's pretty
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  decent. My initial thought is it's a
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  decent movie by the decent. Decent.
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  Yeah. Best Picture 5 Big 5 you get
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  decent. I have.
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  I've given myself. I know you're not supposed to
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  give yourself your own nickname like T-bone, sure, which there's
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  something there to connect that there.
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  But I I'm going to coin myself the humbler OK where I humble
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  these movies like Rocky, like Cuckoo, French Connection.
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  Yeah, all these. Best picture classics, the
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  greats that have won Oscars that came out 10/20/30, whatever
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  years ago, watching them now, it's like, you know, it's pretty
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  good but maybe doesn't hold up the test of time of, of really
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  being that good after, you know, looking at it myself.
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  The humbler, the humbler, the humbler.
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  All right, I I thought it. I have the idiot is really what?
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  I well, I. But the humbler sounds better
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  rolls off the tongue a little. Easier.
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  I workshopped that a little bit and people seem to enjoy it too
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  much, yeah. It latched on real quick to that
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  one. That's fair, but Phillip, I
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  myself am not too familiar with Demi.
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  Oh yeah, Jonathan Demme. He, I believe, did Philadelphia.
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  Yeah, it was his follow up. I tried watching that once and I
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  found it very boring. But I want to go back to it
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  because I did attempt to watch that much, much younger.
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  Sure. I think in my 20s.
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  And I just, I didn't have any, let's say, patients back then.
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  I just couldn't get into it. Yeah.
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  So I think I would like to revisit that one because, I
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  mean, that's a good. It's a great movie.
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  Was your masculinity threatened? Everyday a little bit in that
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  actually, yeah, that's one of the things they say why he made
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  that movie after this was that there was some pushback from the
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  transgender and like the LGBTQ communities around portrayal of
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  Buffalo Bill and his transvestite.
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  You know, all of these sort of terminologies that he felt that
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  he wanted to make amends with that community.
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  In fact, in Philadelphia, as a way to acknowledge and to sort
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  of pay homosexuality with a level of respect to a certain
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  extent. And I think he got right.
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  Tom Hanks is the right man for the job.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  I did have that soundtrack. It's a good soundtrack.
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  It is. Yeah.
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  Fantastic. Yeah.
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  First of two Oscars. There you go.
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  But this is Jonathan Demme's first Oscar win for best
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  directories. Got a great career.
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  His nephew, by the way. I mean, I just want to call out
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  old Ted Demme. He directed The Ref and
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  Beautiful Girls, The Leery yeah yeah and the movie Blow with OK
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  Johnny Depp. Yeah, I noticed.
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  I didn't see a lot of his stuff. I did notice he worked with JT
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  Oh yeah, back in 2016. And he's done some music stuff.
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  Yeah, he directed Love This Movie, Stop Making Sense, one of
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  the sort of early kind of genre defining concert films.
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  Yeah, he's he made Rachel Getting Married, which is really
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  great. He made Married to the Mob,
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  which is really great. Something Wild, which is really
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  great. He did a remake of The
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  Manchurian Candidate, which is pretty good with Denzel, Denzel
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  and Subscriber. So not that in 1000 as it were,
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  but the stuff he did well, he did really well.
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  OK. And contrary, in fact, to the
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  writer who did win an Academy Award as well for Best
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  Screenplay, Best Adapted Screenplay, of course, Ted
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  Tally. Oh, Ted Tally.
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  We'll talk to me about Ted Tally.
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  There's nothing to talk about. OK, This guy wins the Oscar for
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  this movie and then retires. And it's like a a brilliantly
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  written, it's really great. It's definitely written.
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  And then he writes garbage. He writes the movie called The
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  Juror Hey Now, which is trash. He's just nothing good after
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  this. And it's very shocking to me how
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  little he produces. Maybe I.
• 10:50
  Mean nothing good. It's possible, but maybe this
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  movie wasn't as well written as it's perceived to be.
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  I think no, no, it's definitely as good as it.
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  OK, I guess we'll have some conversations coming up.
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  But he just ended up not making anything interesting after this.
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  All the Pretty Horses is a disaster of a movie.
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  And they weren't that pretty, those horses.
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  So it's fascinating to me when that happens that you sort of
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  think, oh, this guy's going to be something.
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  And it's not at all. Well, Philip, I think you know
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  what time it is. It's time to share good old
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  Faithful's synopsis. For those who may not have heard
• 11:30
  of the movie, would you please share?
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  Well, here comes David, and this one's a real good 1A young FBI
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  cadet must receive the help of an incarcerated and manipulative
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  cannibal killer to help catch another serial killer, a madman
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  whose skins his victims. For those who don't know, that
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  took Phil three tries. I've removed two of them.
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  Sounds great. Yeah, clear.
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  And I think that's very clear to what this movie is about.
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  It tells the whole story. Let's get into the movie.
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  And this one, of course, starts presumably in Langley.
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  I Yeah, OK Farm. It's in a forest.
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  That's all I know at this point. That's all I know.
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  Right at the beginning I understand, but we now we've
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  seen the movies. I thought, yeah, I was just
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  going out for a jog with an FBI sweatshirt.
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  Yeah, so that's why I think maybe Langley, maybe the farm,
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  the. Farm.
• 12:21
  Yes, we saw Al Pacino, scary judge of talent, much like
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  Crawford, perhaps. So we got the titles over this
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  exercise and we get a sense as to who our lead character is.
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  It doesn't leave a lot of confusion about that.
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  The cameras focus on her throughout and we get these
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  titles. What do you thoughts?
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  The score? Howard Shore did the score.
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  Are you talking about like right now or overall?
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  Let's talk overall. Overall, Phillip, it didn't
• 12:47
  stand out for me and that's not necessarily a bad thing because
• 12:52
  sometimes it just runs really parallel like with the story and
• 12:55
  with the movie that you may not really notice it and upon like
• 12:59
  reading sort of some reviews with other people thought it
• 13:02
  did. So a little bit of research and
• 13:03
  when it comes to the soundtrack specifically, I got a little bit
• 13:06
  of both. People thought it was one of the
• 13:08
  best parts of the movie and then others said it was a shitty
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  soundtrack. Yeah, it didn't win.
• 13:14
  It wasn't even nominated for the Academy Award that year.
• 13:18
  It honestly I don't like it that much.
• 13:20
  Hold on, hold on here. We're only 1015 minutes into
• 13:25
  this episode and you said something negative about.
• 13:28
  It Oh totally, I am the most honest person on this podcast.
• 13:32
  I. Think it's a lie?
• 13:34
  No, not that you don't do that, but it's just sorry.
• 13:36
  It's just usually not this quick.
• 13:38
  No, we're talking about something I don't love.
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  You know, if we waited 25 minutes, it would have been a
• 13:42
  little deeper in the episode. But.
• 13:44
  Well, I do appreciate your honesty though.
• 13:46
  Let me let me get that out there.
• 13:48
  It's because it's right away and right away I don't like it
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  right. Like I don't think the opening
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  title score is, is anything really of interest.
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  It's it's a little overbearing at times and that's where I most
• 14:00
  notice it and most dislike it. And so even if it continues to
• 14:02
  get better throughout or I don't notice it as jarringly and so
• 14:05
  forth, wrong foot. It's the introduction of it and
• 14:08
  it's your sort of main theme, if you can call it that.
• 14:10
  And it just doesn't do anything for me.
• 14:12
  So. Yeah, you're out.
• 14:14
  How do you feel about the big credits?
• 14:17
  Yeah, I thought that was interesting.
• 14:18
  Very 90s, very 90s. I guess I've talked about my
• 14:21
  love of a title sequence, of course.
• 14:23
  Yeah. Building in story into into the
• 14:26
  credits, like the movie has started and like at the Recruit.
• 14:29
  Absolutely. Huh.
• 14:30
  One of the best parts about that movie.
• 14:33
  However, this didn't have that at all.
• 14:36
  It was just big titles. Big.
• 14:38
  Clunky titles. Yeah, so, I mean, it's not my
• 14:40
  favorite, not enough certainly to Take Me Out of the movie or
• 14:43
  anything. But it is a little like, oh, I
• 14:45
  don't remember that when I, when I think back on this movie,
• 14:48
  have. You ever climbed a cargo net?
• 14:51
  That's what I wanted. Oh, absolutely.
• 14:53
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. School gyms and yeah play
• 14:55
  structures, absolutely. Yeah, this is in my world right
• 14:57
  now. I'm doing a lot of working out.
• 14:59
  I'm on a program. OK, Lost a little bit of weight
• 15:01
  already. You didn't notice?
• 15:02
  No, no, no. No, I'm not good at that.
• 15:04
  I was over at a friend's place and he he had lost probably
• 15:07
  about 3040 lbs. Yeah, since I last saw him, I I
• 15:11
  don't notice these things. Wow.
• 15:13
  Yeah, he's always been Husky to me.
• 15:15
  Sure. He's never been fat.
• 15:15
  He's just been Husky. Sure.
• 15:17
  So he's just. I mean, if he's 280 and he loses
• 15:20
  30, it's not really as evident as if you're 180 and you're down
• 15:23
  to 150. Yeah, that's true.
• 15:25
  He's 320 coming in at 290 now. Yeah.
• 15:27
  So I mean, that's not something, I mean, you probably lost what,
• 15:31
  3 lbs? It's really tough to see that.
• 15:33
  Yeah, it is. Thank you.
• 15:35
  I don't believe it even exists, but yeah, obviously it's a
• 15:39
  different story when you're dealing with those kind of
• 15:42
  weights, but. The point is, I've been sweating
• 15:43
  a lot lately. OK, and cargo Nets are to blame?
• 15:46
  No, I don't do the cargo net. I do a lot of other stuff.
• 15:49
  OK, so you brought it up. I want to know if you I look at
• 15:53
  you and I see a guy who may have tackled a cargo net all.
• 15:57
  Right, we want to open that wound.
• 16:00
  Terrible experience you had though.
• 16:03
  My childhood silence. What are your thoughts on sort
• 16:08
  of her introduction? She's getting called into
• 16:10
  Crawford's office. She doesn't know why.
• 16:13
  What do we see? How does that scene kind of play
• 16:15
  out for you? One thing I noticed were the
• 16:18
  looks. She was getting, yeah, not
• 16:21
  incredibly subtle. They were there for us to see.
• 16:24
  But what really stood out for me?
• 16:26
  And if you're on your phone, you would have noticed this.
• 16:29
  Yeah. Is she gets into the elevator
• 16:31
  and she's surrounded by not just men, but tall men.
• 16:35
  Yep, it stands out and like we talked about in Cuckoo, if
• 16:40
  you're not paying attention, yeah, that whole theme, because
• 16:44
  it is a theme in this movie. Now, you may have got it later.
• 16:47
  Sure, this is not the only opportunity where it shows it,
• 16:49
  but this is a big part of it and really gets the ball rolling
• 16:53
  with that, that she's in a world with a lot of men.
• 16:57
  Totally. And she's the underdog.
• 16:59
  I wrote down underdog. Sure.
• 17:00
  She's in over her head obviously as well, right?
• 17:03
  She's just a trainee. She's a, you know, a pad of 1
• 17:05
  learner, if you will. And I won't.
• 17:09
  And yeah. And Crawford's, I guess, like
• 17:11
  the big dog. I think it's so telling.
• 17:14
  And it's a really good point you bring up.
• 17:16
  The visual language of storytelling and movies is
• 17:19
  something that is being lost. And this is a it's a great.
• 17:21
  Example. And I did like the, I don't know
• 17:23
  if it was like a Dolly or a like a Steadicam, but I like the
• 17:26
  looseness, a little bit of the shot.
• 17:28
  And ultimately, of course, this leads Foster's character,
• 17:31
  Clarice Starling, I believe I'm saying that correctly, into
• 17:35
  Crawford's office, where we get the first sort of talk around a
• 17:40
  gentleman named, well, two people, Buffalo Bill and
• 17:44
  Hannibal Lecter. I do want to make one quick
• 17:47
  funny note on Hannibal Lecter. The name.
• 17:51
  I always thought it was a thing, not an actual proper name.
• 17:58
  You thought Hannibal was? Like a Hannibal Lecter was a
• 18:01
  person who eats people. Gotcha.
• 18:03
  He is. He is, but I thought there's
• 18:04
  more Hannibal Lecters. Like you are a Hannibal Lecter
• 18:07
  because you eat people. OK, I see.
• 18:10
  I see what you mean. It's like a personality trait
• 18:12
  rather than exactly. Now if your name is Hannibal and
• 18:15
  the only other one I know is of the A-Team.
• 18:17
  Oh yeah, sure. But if your name Hannibal B
• 18:19
  rests as well is is Hannibal, do you think that has any play into
• 18:23
  becoming a cannibal? Because it rhymes like, OK,
• 18:26
  well, looks like I was put on this earth to eat people because
• 18:28
  I was named, you know. Sure.
• 18:31
  I mean, if you think back to our Magnolia episode, right, Denise,
• 18:34
  Denise the piece. So you think maybe if your name
• 18:38
  is Denise, you have to be a piece?
• 18:41
  I think that's interesting. I.
• 18:42
  I don't know worth. Investigating how many Hannibals
• 18:44
  out there are cannibals. I think you can tell that they
• 18:47
  that's a book thing. Like that's just a good name to
• 18:49
  be in a. Clever play.
• 18:50
  Yeah. Yeah, rhyming scheme.
• 18:52
  So forth. But tell me what your thoughts
• 18:53
  on maybe, I don't know if you can remember the first time
• 18:55
  watching it or watching it now, your sense of this introduction
• 18:59
  to these characters, what I love about that.
• 19:02
  In this movie and in in many others that sort of implement or
• 19:07
  employ this particular trick is the talking about the thing
• 19:11
  before we get to see the thing. Yes, whether it's the shark in
• 19:15
  Jaws bite radius is this big. Talking it up.
• 19:20
  The victim has this and that and has experienced this, right?
• 19:23
  You're in a feeling of what could have done this, right?
• 19:26
  And so when we're hearing Crawford talk about how terrible
• 19:32
  this Hannibal guy is. Not great.
• 19:34
  He's not great. He keeps saying things like it
• 19:38
  just be very careful. He's very dangerous.
• 19:41
  Don't tell him anything personal.
• 19:43
  Don't get him inside your head. Don't get him inside your head.
• 19:45
  He's he's a monster, right? So like, that is the FBI
• 19:48
  perception of who he is and that paints a picture for sure.
• 19:52
  It's a picture painting situation, which I do like, I
• 19:55
  think in movies generally. 100% and leaves us kind of guessing
• 19:59
  what that is and the fact that it's then what I would suggest
• 20:02
  in poker terms, it's raised. The auntie is raised because
• 20:07
  then you have Chilton. Who's kind of a Dick whom you
• 20:10
  see after this? But we have things like the
• 20:14
  rules. He's leading her to Hannibal
• 20:18
  himself. Do not touch or approach the
• 20:20
  glass, Only soft paper. No pencils, no pens.
• 20:24
  Don't accept anything from him. Shows him a photo of what he had
• 20:28
  done. Talks about how had to reset the
• 20:31
  jaw. His pulse never got over 85 when
• 20:34
  he was eating her tongue. I've been working out lately and
• 20:36
  that's really impressive by the totally keep it at 85.
• 20:39
  I do 1 push up, I'm at 116. Absolutely saying.
• 20:42
  It's impressive. So like this combined with
• 20:45
  Crawfords advice, as it were, and the fact that they need him
• 20:50
  to solve or to address the Buffalo Bill situation implies
• 20:55
  that you kind of have to make a deal with the devil to find the
• 20:57
  even worse devil. And there's something really
• 20:59
  exciting about that leading in. So in the zeitgeist, you know
• 21:03
  what this story is about generally, you know he was in
• 21:05
  it, at least I know the players. But having not seen the movie,
• 21:09
  you're hearing all of this nastiness.
• 21:11
  How are you feeling as she's going down that particularly
• 21:14
  gross corridor and approaching him?
• 21:17
  Going into this movie, I was not excited, but I was curious to a
• 21:22
  what the all the hype was about and the fact that it was a
• 21:24
  psychological thriller. And that sort of does interest
• 21:27
  me. I think this movie does
• 21:30
  generally a really good job of creating tension.
• 21:34
  Yeah, I was. This is the first movie probably
• 21:38
  in a long time where I really felt it.
• 21:41
  OK. And that's the whole discussion
• 21:43
  in the office, the picture painting.
• 21:45
  Yeah, if you will. I will.
• 21:46
  And then her meeting Chilton and him taking her down the corridor
• 21:51
  and that scene with the red light coming in.
• 21:54
  Yeah, that all is really impressive to me.
• 21:58
  And it takes a lot for me. Yeah, who just called this movie
• 22:02
  OK? About 20 minutes ago.
• 22:04
  Well, all in that okayness, this is one thing that I felt was a
• 22:08
  positive attribute to this film was creating that, and I was so
• 22:14
  set to meet this Hannibal Lecter.
• 22:18
  You're ready for it? I'm ready for it.
• 22:20
  And I'm wondering is it going to?
• 22:22
  Live up to your standard. Live up to my that idea,
• 22:25
  whatever it just quickly did. The whole thing was just in my
• 22:28
  face, like, Oh, my God, here's the expectation.
• 22:31
  I didn't have expectations of that moment coming into the
• 22:34
  movie. Yeah.
• 22:34
  It's happening now. Sure.
• 22:36
  And his Look, Philip, it lived up.
• 22:39
  Yeah. I've always liked Anthony
• 22:41
  Hopkins as a performer. I saw the edge.
• 22:43
  OK. It's on my shelf with LL
• 22:45
  Baldwin. Yeah.
• 22:46
  Welcome, my David Mamet. Great film.
• 22:48
  Great film, good actor and a great performer.
• 22:50
  And this just proves that. Ultimately, yeah, he's not on
• 22:53
  screen for a long time, but when he's in there 16 minutes, you
• 22:56
  can't take his eyes off of him. And he particularly he strikes
• 23:01
  such a a particular pose when you're first meeting him, sort
• 23:05
  of hearing this, he's a monster. Don't get near him.
• 23:07
  And so to to have him just be standing so rigidly is creepier
• 23:13
  than prosthetics or right, like you could have made him up to be
• 23:18
  something different, right? But he's Anthony Hopkins, more
• 23:20
  or less with slicked back air. But the fact in his mannerisms
• 23:24
  and his sort of decorum in the way in which he manipulates.
• 23:27
  But even just his literally, literally just standing there.
• 23:31
  He's got the right eyes for it. He's like, oh, God, you're
• 23:34
  creepy. Yeah.
• 23:35
  Even without anything else I know about him, you're like, oh,
• 23:38
  you're ready for this, too. Yeah, it's something.
• 23:39
  Awful. He was even a little creepy in
• 23:41
  the edge. Oh, interesting, he had a moment
• 23:42
  of creepiness. One moment I don't.
• 23:45
  Know but yeah, you're right, I, I think obviously when it comes
• 23:48
  to casting that was done pretty darn well I think overall in
• 23:53
  this movie. You think it's reasonable to
• 23:55
  give an Oscar a best actor Oscar for a performance where you're
• 24:00
  on screen for 16 minutes? I didn't even think of the 16
• 24:03
  minute thing until I read it. And of course that that checks
• 24:05
  out. But if you feel that he's on
• 24:08
  screen when he's not on screen, and depending on the competition
• 24:12
  that year, I would say yeah. That's the perfect.
• 24:15
  I mean, he's the lead character. I mean this is.
• 24:18
  It's a show. I think he does everything he
• 24:19
  needs to do, so I don't. I think it's warranted.
• 24:21
  For sure. No, I think you're right.
• 24:23
  It's a lasting. Impression that's right.
• 24:24
  And Lecter in this movie is the same.
• 24:25
  Everything up before we meet him is about him.
• 24:29
  Absolutely, and he's integral to the rest of it, so I agree.
• 24:33
  I think the big question here, Phillip, that we really want to
• 24:35
  know is do you eat liver? Just one time.
• 24:39
  With the flava beans. Fava.
• 24:41
  Flav. There's no L.
• 24:43
  Flava beans. Yeah, and a nice Chianti.
• 24:47
  Yeah, absolutely. Maybe.
• 24:48
  I, I've, I've had it a couple times.
• 24:50
  My mom likes it like liver and onions, sure and such.
• 24:52
  I think it was a bigger thing back in like the the 60s and.
• 24:56
  Yeah, I think so. I don't know.
• 24:58
  There's obviously that, the bit of a taste to it, the texture.
• 25:01
  Yeah. Now I'm talking about like cow,
• 25:03
  just just to be clear. Sure, I don't want any.
• 25:06
  Misunderstanding liver, as you're saying.
• 25:08
  I am not a Hannibal Lecter, just so you know.
• 25:10
  I'm not one of those people. One of those people that's
• 25:16
  great. But more noteworthy, I would say
• 25:18
  then you know, the liver is the close-ups, the shots of this.
• 25:25
  Oh yes, sure, like the meeting between these two for.
• 25:27
  The first time, yeah. close-ups can be used whenever you want.
• 25:32
  It's. Fair.
• 25:34
  Not so strong. Fair.
• 25:35
  Fair rain. Some will.
• 25:37
  Argue it was used a little bit too much in this film.
• 25:40
  I think you're going to push back on that.
• 25:42
  Who argues this? People.
• 25:43
  Just my people. Sure, sure, your people.
• 25:46
  Part of team Humble old old team working on it.
• 25:50
  I personally didn't notice any sort of over use of it, but I
• 25:54
  can see if you do it too much it might lose a little zest because
• 25:58
  Spielberg, Cameron, they choose these moments, you know, very
• 26:03
  few and far between. When they use their close-ups,
• 26:06
  Demi seem to use it a little bit more, but I don't know if it's
• 26:09
  like this movie thing or more of his sort of.
• 26:12
  Style. I wouldn't say it's 100% his
• 26:14
  style, but I think it's totally appropriate for the movie.
• 26:16
  I think you're dealing with people in prisons of some kind,
• 26:19
  even Clarice's stories that she kind of unfolds, but there's a
• 26:23
  prison that she's in. Obviously, Hannibal is
• 26:25
  physically in a prison, and the close-ups kind of give you the
• 26:29
  sense that there are only two people talking.
• 26:31
  And the way that Hannibal kind of looks at the world is through
• 26:34
  this seemingly specific narrow focus.
• 26:40
  And I think that that's told through camera work and things
• 26:44
  of that nature. So I think it's great.
• 26:46
  I don't find it's overbearing at all.
• 26:48
  I think it's appropriate. It's not jarring because it's
• 26:50
  used throughout the film. So I think the direction of this
• 26:54
  movie is incredible. I think the cinematography is
• 26:57
  great. I think everything visually
• 26:59
  about this movie is really impressive.
• 27:00
  Well, I can't argue too much because it did win the Oscar for
• 27:04
  best Director. That's.
• 27:05
  Right. Not cinematography, however.
• 27:07
  Not even nominated. Really, who won that year?
• 27:09
  Robert Richardson for JFK, which is a movie I can't wait to get
• 27:12
  off the shelf. I It's a gorgeous looking movie.
• 27:14
  Never seen it. Oh my God.
• 27:16
  I know, I know. It's really great.
• 27:19
  Whether this movie is the best cinematography or not is sort of
• 27:21
  secondary. It doesn't matter.
• 27:22
  It's just perfectly appropriate, at the very least, if not showy.
• 27:27
  One thing though, Phil I I'm unclear about during this first
• 27:31
  interaction between the two main characters is he calls her a
• 27:37
  rube. Yeah, yeah.
• 27:39
  What is that? It's like a fool.
• 27:42
  Oh, OK. Ultimately a kind of dimwitted.
• 27:46
  He does mention she's one generation past white trash or
• 27:49
  something. Yeah, basically calls her poor
• 27:50
  white trash. It's not very nice.
• 27:52
  No, he calls her, you know, cheap shoes, good bag, right?
• 27:56
  Just sort of tears her down basically is saying you're just
• 27:59
  a pawn, right? She doesn't belong there.
• 28:01
  Crawford sent me because. Trainee like come on.
• 28:04
  So he kind of gets that there is this weird kind of courtesy
• 28:08
  throughout, but when she offends him, gloves come off.
• 28:12
  It's telling to me because everything we've heard up until
• 28:15
  this point is don't let him in your head and don't let him know
• 28:18
  too much. Don't do these 10 things, and
• 28:21
  I'm guaranteeing you I'm going to see them do at least five of
• 28:24
  those things. Sure, but only later, because
• 28:27
  she doesn't reveal much here and he's able to pull that out of
• 28:30
  her, and because it's a brilliantly made movie and
• 28:33
  you've got great people at the helm.
• 28:36
  The next shot she leaves after Migs, and after all that sort of
• 28:40
  fiasco, she walks out in the first shot we see is a slow push
• 28:46
  in on her shitty car in midst a parking lot full of nicer cars.
• 28:51
  As she's kind of dejectedly walking back to that car, she's
• 28:54
  sort of struck by that. Yeah, makes you think.
• 28:57
  Makes you think. I I went outside and looked at
• 28:59
  my Honda from 2012. Like, yeah.
• 29:02
  Here I am, Here I. Have 230,000 K on it.
• 29:05
  Don't even have the nice bag. Yeah, so going strong though.
• 29:08
  So going strong. I brought my wife's car here,
• 29:10
  though. It's in front of mine, so I just
• 29:12
  got to fill it up with gas. That's the deal.
• 29:14
  And that's the scam she pulled because?
• 29:15
  It's $1.40. She's driving a brand new 2014
• 29:19
  Toyota. Yeah, I mean living on the edge.
• 29:22
  We didn't really talk about it in that moment, but there was a
• 29:24
  gentleman that's being very, very nice.
• 29:27
  Very nice, yeah. Named Mr. Miggs multiple Migs
• 29:31
  yes and he's not very nice to Clarice no let's.
• 29:35
  Just leave it at that. Overly nice I guess.
• 29:36
  Yeah, and maybe you can explain it to me, the logistics of this.
• 29:40
  But Hannibal talks him into eating his own tongue.
• 29:44
  Yeah, and then he dies choking on it, I suppose.
• 29:47
  How do you do that, Phil? I have no idea, but it's telling
• 29:51
  how psychologically manipulative.
• 29:53
  Yeah, like I understand the purpose of it you.
• 29:55
  Don't know how you eat your own tongue?
• 29:56
  But or to convince someone to do it actually.
• 29:58
  Have you ever eaten cow tongue? Yeah.
• 30:00
  Have you? No, it's a thing.
• 30:02
  It absolutely is a thing. There's a Taco place nearby, and
• 30:06
  the first five things on the menu were cow stungs, really.
• 30:09
  And I was like, I'm not interested in this.
• 30:11
  Not for me, not for you. What is for you though?
• 30:13
  Is a montage? Absolutely.
• 30:15
  Now this isn't huge. No, small.
• 30:17
  It's minimal. Yeah, I was a little
• 30:18
  disappointed, but it's a studying montage and those are
• 30:21
  really my thing. Really.
• 30:23
  And of all the montage it's studying, absolutely better than
• 30:26
  Predator. You think about movies like 7.
• 30:28
  You think about movies like All the President's Men, Like Put a
• 30:31
  person in a room, have to study the information.
• 30:33
  I love the clues. Frost Nixon.
• 30:35
  You know, All right, I'm mostly intrigued by the newspaper.
• 30:38
  Oh, yes, of course. You know, there's always.
• 30:41
  Do you ever not pause it? Now, no, I can't help myself,
• 30:44
  all right? But this time, I have to tell
• 30:46
  you, you know, listeners, I was able to pause it right in front
• 30:50
  of Dave's eyes. Yes.
• 30:52
  Show him first hand. Yeah.
• 30:54
  My psychosis. Like I couldn't get it from you
• 30:56
  explaining. No, no.
• 30:58
  And it is posted on the Facebook page.
• 31:00
  But just just to have it in real time, it's just a funny little
• 31:03
  thing. And once you sort of see it, not
• 31:05
  unlike the Spielberg thing or the close-ups, whatever else
• 31:07
  we're talking about, it's just something I can't shake out of
• 31:10
  my mind. I just I'd lock in and it's
• 31:12
  always really funny to. Me, I have to accept this from
• 31:15
  you and its existence in our podcast because you are kind
• 31:18
  enough to put up with all my Seinfeld and Frasier references,
• 31:22
  with all the actors that show up.
• 31:24
  And let me tell you, this thing is riddled.
• 31:26
  Oh, gosh. One thing I love about watching
• 31:28
  movies from the 90s in particular, it's prime time,
• 31:32
  coincidentally. Yeah.
• 31:33
  Yeah. It's just.
• 31:34
  They're everywhere, right? Yeah.
• 31:35
  So I just love seeing these these faces kind of go up and it
• 31:38
  reminds me how good I am. I pointed them out.
• 31:41
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:41
  Sure, you could be on the screen for six seconds.
• 31:43
  Yeah. And I can pinpoint what I saw
• 31:45
  you in that you're also only in for six seconds.
• 31:48
  Sure, I'm exaggerating for effect, but you know what?
• 31:50
  I. Mean, yeah, absolutely.
• 31:51
  The history is proven. Absolutely.
• 31:53
  What I find telling or more interesting is when we've
• 31:56
  watched full movies and then we go back and you're completely
• 32:00
  befuddled by the fact that I don't know that guy.
• 32:03
  He was in the movie we did six weeks ago for two hours.
• 32:07
  You're like, I don't know. But if he was in for six
• 32:09
  seconds, I got him two hours. Who is this?
• 32:12
  Guy, it's the whole thing. It's a real thing.
• 32:13
  It's a real thing. I'm nicer to strangers than my
• 32:15
  own. Family, there you go.
• 32:16
  And I actually think it's really impressive to me.
• 32:18
  I don't care about it, but I think it's impressive.
• 32:20
  As long as you're impressed, it's.
• 32:21
  Really, all this matters. I remember Phil, where you used
• 32:30
  to live, I would always pass a diamond storage.
• 32:34
  Absolutely, absolutely got me out of a couple of champs in my
• 32:37
  day, let me tell you. We have a storage situation
• 32:41
  which I've seen a lot of lately, a lot of cop shows I'm watching.
• 32:44
  Are you watching a lot of cop shows?
• 32:45
  Yes, actually I am. I'm actually watching a Canadian
• 32:48
  one now called 3 Pines. I didn't realize it was
• 32:51
  Canadian. OK.
• 32:52
  And we're enjoying it so far. It's 1 better than hill valley.
• 32:56
  Yes, Twin Pines. Yes.
• 32:58
  And then Lone Pine. Yeah, this is all three.
• 33:01
  Three. Doesn't get better than that.
• 33:02
  No, it's peak pine. And it's peak pine.
• 33:06
  Absolutely. And I want to, I want to say
• 33:09
  something here because she's trying to get the door open.
• 33:12
  She's struggling and she gets it open to a certain extent, and
• 33:14
  she crawls underneath and she cuts herself.
• 33:18
  I think every movie should have a reminder in it to get your
• 33:22
  tetanus shot. That's your, that's your hill to
• 33:25
  die on. Yeah, I think we could all use a
• 33:27
  reminder. When was your last tetanus shot?
• 33:29
  Just last year, actually, I got my tetanus.
• 33:31
  Really. What about you?
• 33:33
  Couldn't tell you, probably in elementary school.
• 33:35
  Now, did you think about tetanus when you saw Not a single
• 33:37
  second. So it's not going to work
• 33:38
  anyway. Never mind.
• 33:40
  Never mind, works on the ones who have already got it.
• 33:43
  That's right, you know. Nonetheless, she is inside what
• 33:46
  she thinks is someone else's storage.
• 33:48
  Yes, Harry, not Hannibal Lecter. Someone named Mr. Moffett.
• 33:52
  Yes, yeah, he kind of figures out it's an anagram.
• 33:54
  I hate those. Yeah, it's a challenge.
• 33:58
  I agree. Those word plays are a.
• 34:00
  Little tough to play on. But yeah, there's some cat and
• 34:04
  mouse stuff here. She's in there.
• 34:05
  But what? She finds this gentleman's head
• 34:08
  in a jar. Yeah, that was jarring it.
• 34:10
  Really, it really was. But I I found that to be one of
• 34:15
  the grosser things in the movie, that sort of polluted, bloated,
• 34:21
  kind of pretty gross. Yeah, it it was kind of gross.
• 34:23
  She was scared at 1st and then she was exhilarated.
• 34:26
  Just so you know, I think that that explain that a little bit
• 34:29
  later. What I do find interesting about
• 34:32
  this movie because it's doing such a great job of tension,
• 34:35
  Yeah, that we're led to believe that this garage door style
• 34:40
  thing is going to get her stuck inside.
• 34:42
  Yes, yes, we are kind of. Right conditioned, but nothing
• 34:46
  happens because of it. I just think it's a nice choice
• 34:49
  just to keep us guessing. It's a jump scare without being
• 34:52
  too on the nose, right? And like you're saying, nothing
• 34:55
  happens, nothing comes of it, but it shows us a sense of her
• 34:58
  paranoia, her fear. It's.
• 35:00
  Keeping us honest and exactly. Absolutely.
• 35:02
  And the guy that she's with that owns the the storage facility.
• 35:06
  Yes, he's quirky. He's definitely odd and gets her
• 35:11
  at a position where she is now maybe slightly more aggressive
• 35:15
  with Hannibal cuz she rushes back to the hospital, right?
• 35:20
  She needs to talk to him and. Same night.
• 35:22
  I think, yeah, right away and kind of breaks that down.
• 35:26
  I don't know if you've noticed Toofil when she goes back to see
• 35:28
  him, it's raining. Yes, absolutely.
• 35:30
  I think that's made very clear. It's pretty.
• 35:32
  Classic horror thriller trope, right?
• 35:35
  Like, you want dark stormy nights, right?
• 35:37
  That's pretty common. You want precipitation.
• 35:39
  You need it. I think you have to have more
• 35:41
  than anything else. But at this point he's got this
• 35:46
  great scene. The way he shoots this Demi with
• 35:48
  the television on the right side.
• 35:51
  He's in shadow, she's on the other side of the glass,
• 35:53
  correct? He is still the mystery, right?
• 35:56
  And also only half listening or like only half in games.
• 36:00
  The television thing is happening, right?
• 36:01
  He's but he's intrigued and he's impressed and I love that
• 36:06
  dynamic between these. Yes, I would agree like she
• 36:09
  rushes back with. Ideas.
• 36:10
  And he's intrigued by that. He's excited by it.
• 36:13
  Well, I mean, he just have a lot to do that's true in there.
• 36:16
  I think it's important to point out that Crawford sent her, sent
• 36:19
  her in there originally without really letting her in on the
• 36:22
  overall plan. Yeah, because Hannibal would
• 36:25
  have sniffed that out. Yes, that's right, you.
• 36:27
  You know why you're here, and I'm not going to give you any
• 36:29
  information that's right whatsoever.
• 36:31
  So I think that's a great play on Crawford.
• 36:33
  I don't think we give him enough credit.
• 36:34
  He's doing a great role there at the FBI, much better than they
• 36:38
  do these days. I would I would argue yes, but I
• 36:42
  love these meetings they have together and they just get
• 36:45
  increasingly better. Yes over time.
• 36:47
  Like it escalates perfectly. He eventually gets the files and
• 36:50
  he has his own plan, obviously. Absolutely, yes, that obviously
• 36:54
  plays. Out over time?
• 36:55
  What's that window? Absolutely, absolutely.
• 36:58
  But yeah, we started to break down a little bit more about who
• 37:00
  Bill is and his former patient of Lecter that talks about
• 37:04
  transvestite like, Oh well, in life.
• 37:06
  No, he's just trying different things on.
• 37:08
  Not comfortable in his own skin. That's right, as it were.
• 37:11
  That's right. So there's an element between
• 37:13
  these two and it's almost playful and like.
• 37:16
  They're friends. Yeah.
• 37:17
  Like it starts to. Become that.
• 37:19
  I think it's really compelling. There's one thing that's
• 37:22
  noteworthy here is she's already broken.
• 37:24
  Now in this scene, 2 rules. Don't take anything from him.
• 37:28
  She takes the towel. Yeah.
• 37:29
  Do you take the towel? I don't take the towel.
• 37:32
  You don't take the towel I. Don't take the towel.
• 37:34
  I don't need a towel. I think I'm taking the towel.
• 37:36
  I don't use an umbrella, you do. That's what makes us.
• 37:38
  Completely different. I wouldn't need the towel.
• 37:41
  So there. You go.
• 37:42
  I wouldn't take it if I didn't need it.
• 37:43
  Obviously I don't need. It you're proactive, that's
• 37:46
  right, I'm reactive but then still don't do anything about
• 37:48
  it. That's that's me.
• 37:51
  You're kind of non active. I'm non active.
• 37:53
  I'm non active. Those 3 lbs though, they'll tell
• 37:55
  you something different though. There you go.
• 37:56
  There it is, but it's just a reminder of how much I like his
• 38:00
  look. Oh sure, in his demeanor, his
• 38:05
  eyes. Like just the way he speaks.
• 38:07
  Yeah, slow, methodical. And he talks about in the scene
• 38:11
  how, how patient he is, right? He's like I've been here 8.
• 38:14
  Years he's got to be. So do you have the patience for
• 38:17
  me, because I don't need this exactly puts a different set of
• 38:21
  stakes into the mix that I find, again really interesting between
• 38:25
  the two? Speaking of stakes, it's around
• 38:28
  here it's made clear what those steaks are going to be in this
• 38:32
  specific movie. We're at a pivot point, I would
• 38:34
  suggest. A pivot point with a piece of
• 38:36
  steak, which he would absolutely love if it was human.
• 38:40
  Of course. Absolutely.
• 38:42
  What did you have for dinner tonight?
• 38:43
  Was it chicken? It was chicken, OK.
• 38:45
  Lucky guess, do you like the skin?
• 38:48
  No. OK I ripped the skin off and I
• 38:52
  buy it boneless and if there was a bone I would try and take it
• 38:55
  out too OK. So no bones, no skin, it's.
• 38:57
  Obviously not human skin, but it's still skin.
• 39:00
  Totally. I I'll still eat it.
• 39:01
  But yeah. And I think that's the weird
• 39:03
  thing is ultimately I don't generally now I have at times,
• 39:07
  but I don't generally eat wings or ribs because the reason
• 39:10
  because it's because of this movie.
• 39:12
  No, but because I I don't want to be gnawing on a bone, there's
• 39:17
  something primitive. Yes, of course.
• 39:20
  And so I'll eat meat all the time.
• 39:22
  I have no. You're not above it.
• 39:23
  Issue with it, I can tell, but when it comes to those
• 39:28
  specifics, gnawing on a bone is something I will often not do.
• 39:33
  Even people are like, oh, I got a nice T-bone, right?
• 39:36
  It's been marinating. It's grilling for four days,
• 39:38
  like it's whatever. Like I could not want that any
• 39:40
  less. You're very sophisticated.
• 39:42
  I just cut the middle out. That's why I buy these garbage
• 39:44
  steaks, because I'm like, I just want the little center round
• 39:48
  part. I don't want anything fatty or
• 39:51
  sinewy or bone or anything. Anyways, sorry about that little
• 39:56
  side piece there, but what I'm referring to the stakes is the
• 40:00
  next scene. Yes, yes, we're rocking out.
• 40:03
  Tom Petty, I I didn't know that song.
• 40:05
  You don't know American girl. You don't.
• 40:07
  Fuck you lived under. I know it sounds like a
• 40:10
  mainstream song. I'm like, where was I?
• 40:12
  Yeah, I was in the country. Film monster hit for the last 50
• 40:16
  years. Dude I'm watching road to
• 40:18
  Avonlea and Hetty. Where did this come from?
• 40:22
  Good song, I enjoyed it, but we can obviously tell that this is
• 40:26
  our upcoming victim. Yes, yes, yes.
• 40:29
  Like. Duh.
• 40:30
  Yeah. It's just not somebody just
• 40:32
  driving. And I think we're in Memphis.
• 40:34
  Yeah. Have you ever been to?
• 40:34
  Memphis Phil, I was in Nashville, but not that's.
• 40:37
  Not the question. It's Tennessee.
• 40:39
  It's interchangeable. Yeah, OK.
• 40:40
  I would say Memphis is like the moth and Nashville's like the
• 40:45
  butterfly. Oh, I wouldn't say no.
• 40:48
  In comparison terms. I've never been, so I can't say.
• 40:50
  Well, it is it is there it. Is what are your thoughts on
• 40:53
  because I love the the creepy way in which he lures this woman
• 40:57
  in there's this idea that if she just ignored.
• 41:00
  Don't help him. That's.
• 41:01
  Right, just walk away. This is why you don't help
• 41:03
  people. Yeah, you're out of the helping
• 41:04
  business. I know no more.
• 41:06
  But the way in which that scene is staged, I find both effective
• 41:11
  logistically. Like that makes sense, but also
• 41:14
  like terrifying because that could be anybody, anything.
• 41:17
  I would walk home often from work and I worked on 1st Ave.
• 41:22
  and I would lived on 72nd Ave. and I would just walk the
• 41:26
  duration and sometimes to save a few minutes, you cut through an
• 41:29
  alley here, there. And my ex, she had very big
• 41:32
  anxieties around that and I never had a thought about it.
• 41:35
  I was like, it doesn't matter. Well, you're.
• 41:37
  A guy. That's the difference.
• 41:39
  It really really. Recognized that at the time.
• 41:41
  Yeah. And we're pretty fortunate.
• 41:43
  I kind of rolled my eyes a little bit at some of the like,
• 41:45
  OK, like, whatever, lady, I walk this all the time.
• 41:48
  And then she explained, like, she's just like, I just cannot,
• 41:51
  will not ever live in that space.
• 41:53
  And in watching this movie, I was reminded, yeah, that's that
• 41:57
  kind of thing. Yeah.
• 41:58
  Because even if I help that guy, I'm not doing what she's doing.
• 42:02
  I'm not as vulnerable as she is, you know, this and that.
• 42:05
  So I found it very chilling. Whenever I watch a movie or ATV
• 42:08
  show or documentary around like Serial killing and you know,
• 42:12
  Jeffrey Dahmer's all that sort of stuff, it, it reminds me of
• 42:17
  the added danger it is to be a female, but kind of take that
• 42:20
  for granted where I'm just a regular dude.
• 42:23
  I have my, you know, own fears and issues I've not established
• 42:26
  over 5 years. I create fears that don't exist.
• 42:29
  But that would be a challenging, especially in places like the US
• 42:32
  and, you know, so it's scary. Yeah, totally, totally.
• 42:36
  What I my favorite things about watching these kinds of movies
• 42:38
  is the procedural side of it. So we have Clarice and Crawford
• 42:42
  driving and they're looking at the photos, they're piercing it
• 42:45
  together, defining who he is 'cause they're still only have
• 42:48
  the clues to find. So it's, oh, he's a big, medium
• 42:51
  sized build. He's patient.
• 42:52
  He's right, like. 30 to 40 has a house.
• 42:56
  That's right, little things that I I probably could have figured
• 42:58
  out. Oh, sure, you were boss on that.
• 43:01
  Oh yeah, yeah, buddy. Absolutely.
• 43:03
  Speaking of Bosh, the person who just got kidnapped.
• 43:06
  But she was a Bosher. That's what we're calling them.
• 43:09
  Yeah, Boshers, she played a police captain or or some sort.
• 43:13
  So, yeah, just so, you know, recognized her.
• 43:16
  Had to look that one up, though. I knew I knew her, but I had to
• 43:19
  look up. I'll be honest.
• 43:20
  So I'm not going to sit there and lie to you about it.
• 43:22
  I appreciate that I. Thought you would.
• 43:24
  But yeah, so we have the sense of like, they found another
• 43:26
  body, it's been 3 days and they end up going to this funeral and
• 43:30
  the cautious nature. This is another thing, I guess,
• 43:33
  about being a woman, which I think when I first watched this
• 43:36
  movie in in 92 as a teenage boy, I suppose just coming into your
• 43:41
  own, really, it didn't really clock to me.
• 43:43
  But watching this scene in particular.
• 43:45
  And she is back again, surrounded by men.
• 43:48
  Yeah, taller than her. She still looked down upon the
• 43:51
  camera angle goes high to to accentuate that fact.
• 43:54
  Looking at her. They're all exactly questioning
• 43:57
  her almost and Crawford won't talk to them in public about
• 44:00
  this new find in front of her. So immediately she's just the
• 44:04
  second class citizen. And I I think it's not uncommon
• 44:08
  for that. They felt like that, right, that
• 44:10
  that women are on that back burner, particularly in 1990.
• 44:13
  And I liked her reaction to like her facial expressions.
• 44:16
  Oh yeah, play into that feeling. Yeah, right.
• 44:18
  Let's talk about her for just a second.
• 44:19
  We won't get into specifics. There's a long movie and she's
• 44:22
  in it a lot. But now and watching it into
• 44:24
  totality. Academy Award winner, what are
• 44:26
  your thoughts on the performance throughout the movie?
• 44:28
  This is our third film that we've covered with her Panic
• 44:32
  Room and Contact. Yep.
• 44:34
  And I'm pretty sure I've loved her in everything.
• 44:37
  Yeah, So I think she's really talented.
• 44:39
  Yeah, I don't watch a lot of her movies.
• 44:41
  She's in a movie, and she directed a movie I love called
• 44:44
  Little Man Tate, which we'll get to.
• 44:45
  I think she's phenomenal in this movie.
• 44:47
  And the performance that has to come from the strength, from the
• 44:51
  weakness, from that lowly woman thing, all the way through the
• 44:55
  trainee trying to make a name. I think she just pulls all of
• 44:58
  these pieces together in a way that just is I think incredible
• 45:03
  than have that arc kind of work. Yeah, we're at the funeral scene
• 45:07
  and and this is one of my favorite scenes with her really
• 45:09
  the way in which she is delivering.
• 45:11
  And I think it's again, it's augmented and accentuated by the
• 45:14
  fact that she is a woman because she's watching and she's talking
• 45:17
  about he does this, he does this.
• 45:20
  She was out of girls night out, right?
• 45:22
  She got glitter makeup on. This isn't her usual attires the
• 45:25
  way and she's reciting this and allows herself to breakdown but
• 45:30
  fight it. Just a brilliant performance,
• 45:31
  she. Provides information as if, hey,
• 45:34
  I'm good at what I do, but delivers in a way where I'm new
• 45:38
  at this job. And it's interesting contrast,
• 45:41
  yeah, that she's able to nail. It's like confidence and
• 45:44
  vulnerability all the same time and it's really challenging.
• 45:47
  Not easy to do, no. I've tried it.
• 45:49
  I. Can't do it.
• 45:50
  You get one of the other. But we do get a key point.
• 45:52
  Like I said at the beginning, I love clues.
• 45:54
  Yes, And I will say, Phil, I'm going to say it now.
• 45:57
  I'm going to get it off my chest.
• 45:59
  When it comes to movies about clues and that whole aspect of
• 46:03
  the movie. I wish this movie had done it a
• 46:05
  little bit better. I know it's not the main focus.
• 46:08
  It's there to move the plot along.
• 46:10
  The whole point of the movie isn't to solve necessary the
• 46:13
  mystery. Although you do have to find
• 46:16
  Buffalo Bill. Yeah, it's their job to solve
• 46:18
  the mystery, not ours. Yes, There you go.
• 46:20
  I think that might be the difference.
• 46:22
  Yes. And I think we've talked before
• 46:23
  where people come into the movies, yourself included,
• 46:26
  trying to solve the Riddle of the movie.
• 46:29
  I believe you had issues around Monk.
• 46:30
  Yeah, with that. Well, that's just because it's a
• 46:33
  shitty fucking movie, David. It's one of the very rare
• 46:42
  occasions where I found a Frasier reference.
• 46:47
  Well, he's in almost every episode of Frasier.
• 46:50
  Sure, that's easy. It's a layup, yes.
• 46:52
  And did you know that we also saw him in a film off of my
• 46:56
  shelf early in our season two, I think.
• 47:00
  Oh. OK, no, I don't.
• 47:02
  I mean, I feel like I do remember talking about him, this
• 47:05
  baby, or noticing him. Before, but this is where I step
• 47:07
  up. Yes Sir, 5 seconds in a in a
• 47:09
  movie. Enemy of the State. 15 years
• 47:11
  ago. Yeah, all right.
• 47:12
  Jon Voight's boss sort of ish. All right, I have a vague
• 47:15
  recollection. OK, I'll give it to you.
• 47:17
  I'll trust you. I've.
• 47:18
  Got a track record but I could argue he's the normal 1 here of
• 47:22
  the two guys. The other guy's a little bit
• 47:25
  creepyish. Because he's got a fuck eye,
• 47:27
  yeah. Yeah, I guess he's been in
• 47:31
  another Demi film, I believe. I think he's in Manchurian,
• 47:34
  Manchurian Manchurian. So he's a guy, but it's a it's.
• 47:37
  A fun little moment. I think it's really cute.
• 47:39
  I watch them playing chess with their beetles and bugs and
• 47:42
  whatever else. I think this is a cool scene.
• 47:45
  Any any scene with. Dan Butler.
• 47:48
  It's gonna be good. Let's be honest.
• 47:50
  That's right. It's shoe leather.
• 47:52
  What we call in the business. I don't know what that I don't
• 47:54
  know what that means. It's just it's like expositional
• 47:57
  stuff in between. All I know is a moth is a poor
• 47:59
  man's butterfly. OK, I saw a beautiful butterfly
• 48:03
  actually outside my house yesterday.
• 48:05
  Sure wasn't a moth. No, it this is a monarch.
• 48:07
  It was beautiful. It was huge it.
• 48:09
  Was huge, breathtaking. But all to say with in regards
• 48:12
  to that insect, it's just a bit of a clue of its origins.
• 48:17
  That's right. Yeah.
• 48:17
  It's from Asia, yes. So it's not here.
• 48:19
  It's unique, yeah, and obviously has to be.
• 48:23
  That she says earlier someone had to put it in her mouth to
• 48:26
  begin with. So there's there's definitely a
• 48:27
  causality to it, definitely causality A. 100% And as I
• 48:32
  mentioned earlier about steaks, this really to me anyway,
• 48:34
  solidifies those steaks, that's right, to what we're up against
• 48:38
  here. And it's a battle against time.
• 48:41
  That's right, it's no longer just a girl.
• 48:43
  Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's a senator's daughter.
• 48:45
  That's right, Starling. Runs back to Lecter, right.
• 48:48
  She's her point of his point of contact and visit number three.
• 48:52
  Yeah. And she, we find out that she
• 48:53
  was sort of sent there to offer Lecter his dream on some level.
• 48:59
  She shows up with a sweet deal, let's say.
• 49:02
  Now the stakes are higher, as you're saying, because it's the
• 49:05
  daughter. So they need him to be more
• 49:08
  engaged. Yeah.
• 49:09
  More willing, let's say, than he's been in the past thus far.
• 49:12
  And he kept saying earlier, I've got patients, guy.
• 49:15
  No rush. So I kind of like this pitch
• 49:17
  that she makes to try and sell him on.
• 49:20
  We've got a view one month a year.
• 49:22
  You'll be able to do this in a couple of weeks.
• 49:24
  And he kind of looks at the, he looks at the map and it's a,
• 49:27
  it's a waste facility for most of the time, you know, like wow.
• 49:30
  You get a date at the beach. That's right and.
• 49:32
  He seems to suspect immediately that this whole thing is
• 49:36
  bullshit. I didn't get that.
• 49:37
  No, and I was going to say the same.
• 49:38
  I was like, no, no, this feels legit to me and great.
• 49:41
  I'll take it. Yeah.
• 49:42
  But Chilton, let's talk about him for just a brief, please.
• 49:45
  The Corkmaster, also in Fraser. I guarantee you didn't know
• 49:48
  that. One definitely did not know
• 49:50
  that, no. And we got the impression that
• 49:52
  he could be trouble. He doesn't like her just walking
• 49:55
  in whenever she feels like it. No, he's a bit of a glory hog.
• 49:58
  Yes. And that amps up.
• 50:01
  Yes, a little bit later he definitely realizes that this is
• 50:05
  not a legit deal, or at the very least investigates to see if it
• 50:08
  is. Correct, but at this point we
• 50:11
  assume that it's legit and he finally really start working in
• 50:17
  on who Clarice is. Yeah, this is where we have an
• 50:21
  exchange. It's Latin.
• 50:22
  What do you call that? Quid pro pro pro quid pro quo,
• 50:29
  quid pro quo. This for that, this of this for
• 50:33
  that. I'm just going to call the
• 50:34
  trading of information. I'm to keep it simple, simpler.
• 50:39
  Longer. Adding many more words Longer.
• 50:42
  But simpler, Sure. And one critique I will make
• 50:46
  about this movie, and it's a small one.
• 50:48
  It's not huge, Phil. I'm not really authorized to
• 50:51
  critique it. We don't get a lot of character
• 50:54
  depth on anyone. Really.
• 50:57
  I don't think so. Oh my.
• 50:58
  God, we get a little bit with her, not a lot.
• 51:01
  We get a little bit with Hannibal, but not really.
• 51:04
  We don't have time really to deep into his mind because we're
• 51:06
  not getting out of it. Sure.
• 51:08
  I guess that's a whole other movie, which maybe is in the
• 51:10
  sequel. Buffalo Bill.
• 51:12
  Again, we get a little bit of idea of him, but nothing too
• 51:16
  deep into anybody. I disagree.
• 51:19
  I'm glad you do because that makes it more interesting.
• 51:21
  But like, her flashbacks are brief, her story isn't major
• 51:27
  story. I don't.
• 51:27
  I think it's it's all about what we just talked about, right?
• 51:30
  Like she feels she was orphan. She has to prove herself.
• 51:32
  She's in a world of men. She's a woman trying to fight
• 51:35
  through her dad was a sheriff, wants to impress him, wants to
• 51:38
  impress her father figure, Crawford, even though we don't
• 51:42
  see any of that. We don't need to.
• 51:44
  It's all in the context and in the dialogue, and in the
• 51:47
  performance and. Well, now you need to see it.
• 51:48
  The stuff in between, right? Like all of that, it's her
• 51:51
  character. It's all built on this so.
• 51:54
  I guess I didn't get the oral cues.
• 51:55
  Yeah, maybe. Maybe that's what it is.
• 51:58
  And he's the same, right? We've just heard he's a doctor.
• 52:00
  He did have these things. He had other tendencies,
• 52:02
  obviously, but we get a sense as to who he was before this life,
• 52:06
  after this life. Maybe because of the way it's
• 52:08
  presented to us subtly and sprinkled that maybe it just
• 52:12
  felt like we didn't go too deep. But it's a little bit here, a
• 52:15
  little bit there, and it's not like a dump.
• 52:18
  Sure, I know. Yeah.
• 52:19
  I mean, it's not No one's getting, like the cue card or
• 52:21
  the baseball card. You flip it over and you get the
• 52:23
  guy's life story. No, I.
• 52:24
  Missed that tops. You're getting the story through
• 52:28
  the movie. These people have three or four
• 52:30
  different visits to this prison that is all layering deeper into
• 52:35
  character, both in how they relate to one another and how
• 52:37
  they related outside of that and what they're bringing to the
• 52:39
  conversation. Yeah, I could say couldn't
• 52:41
  disagree more. I think there's a ton of
• 52:43
  character happening in this movie.
• 52:45
  Well, whoever wrote that, I don't know who that was, but
• 52:48
  they were wrong. Am I right?
• 52:49
  I disagree. I mean, maybe you can make the
• 52:51
  argument, but I don't see it. I think that that's what every
• 52:53
  conversation this movie does, is build further character for
• 52:56
  everybody. Even Chilton.
• 52:57
  Even Chilton, Even Chilton, right?
• 52:59
  He's got these moments. He's not just the blowhard at
• 53:01
  the front desk who's trying to hit on Clarice at the beginning.
• 53:04
  He's trying to maneuver his way through and get more attention
• 53:09
  and bolster his career. He's offering himself for
• 53:13
  interviews so we get a sense of who he is deeper and deeper as
• 53:16
  the movie goes on too. So whomever wrote that or read
• 53:19
  that or whatever wasn't me is ridiculous.
• 53:22
  I don't, I don't buy it for a second.
• 53:23
  I'm just providing the information I didn't say.
• 53:25
  I love doing podcasts with the Internet.
• 53:29
  I don't know. It's I read it.
• 53:31
  I read it. I have no opinion.
• 53:32
  I just that's what they said. It's got to be right.
• 53:36
  Well, let's let's speak about a different character that Argue
• 53:39
  did not get a lot of depth. Whiz.
• 53:41
  Buffalo Bill. Yeah, we finally get a little
• 53:44
  peek into his living. Yeah, his home, his dungeon, his
• 53:49
  cave. Sure.
• 53:49
  His. Well.
• 53:50
  Yeah, Lecter is kind of revealed he's, he's applied for a sex
• 53:54
  change, rejected 3 times. He's getting a sense of maybe
• 53:56
  his character, if you will, who this person is.
• 54:01
  You know who did? You know who he is.
• 54:03
  If you recall, I mentioned who he is.
• 54:06
  I did not. Know a few months ago.
• 54:08
  Again, because he was in the whole movie.
• 54:11
  Yes, that's right, he was too long.
• 54:13
  But it also was 30 odd years later.
• 54:16
  Yes, but he was in Monk the movie.
• 54:18
  He was. The movie The movie Monk.
• 54:20
  The television. Made for Peacock.
• 54:23
  Made for television movie, yes. I haven't seen him in anything
• 54:27
  else. He doesn't get a whole lot of
• 54:29
  screen time in this movie. Considering No, he's sort of
• 54:32
  splitting it with. Hannibal Lecter?
• 54:34
  Yeah, Lecter is the bad guys. Yeah.
• 54:36
  Buffalo Bill is not as prominent a character for sure.
• 54:39
  Yeah, so I think considering he is the main bad guy, I think
• 54:42
  there's just not a lot of meat on the bone, as it were, with,
• 54:46
  oh, that's the Princess with Buffalo Bill himself.
• 54:50
  We don't dive too deep into that.
• 54:52
  Can I at least say? That everything that Lecter says
• 54:55
  about him is his character. Everything, everything, every
• 54:59
  bit that we know about Buffalo Bill, we see him doing the
• 55:02
  things right, whether it's dancing or wearing women's
• 55:04
  clothing. Or things he.
• 55:06
  Did the things. So he's doing all of this.
• 55:09
  So that is the sort of his who he is today, I suppose.
• 55:11
  But the depth of his character is the stuff that Lecter's
• 55:13
  saying he applied. He was struggling, he was a
• 55:15
  creator. He covets like all of these
• 55:18
  things are developing, who this person became, I think.
• 55:20
  The issue is is that it's very tight dialogue so maybe doesn't
• 55:25
  all sink in totally. So I think that's the issue I'm
• 55:28
  having is the sinkage. Yeah, I think ultimately it
• 55:31
  comes from watching a movie. You're good at this.
• 55:35
  And paying attention, it's a dialogue heavy movie.
• 55:38
  It's plot heavy. I think I've struggled with
• 55:40
  dialogue heavy movies before. Of course, that could be where
• 55:42
  the problem lies. It's two hours long.
• 55:44
  It's dense, wordy, a lot of characters, a lot happening now.
• 55:47
  We're 50. You have to lock into it and
• 55:50
  really focus, and it helps to see it more than once, and it
• 55:53
  helps to see it over the course of 30 years when we have these
• 55:56
  conversations. It's obvious at times with the
• 56:00
  reality is you've seen it once in the last seven days or twice
• 56:03
  maybe, And I've seen it maybe half a dozen times.
• 56:08
  Yeah. That's not fair.
• 56:09
  Or more. But the same is true when when
• 56:11
  we inverse it. When your movies come off the
• 56:14
  shelf, you've often seen those many, many times.
• 56:17
  And I, in some cases, I'm just seeing them for the first time.
• 56:20
  I just know how to watch movies. I'm looking for these things
• 56:23
  too. I'm a digger.
• 56:24
  You are, you know, absolutely there's nothing wrong with it.
• 56:28
  Exactly. If it is something that's kind
• 56:29
  of heavy stuff or like, you know, whatever, then it's
• 56:32
  something's going to miss the crack.
• 56:33
  That's OK. I will say though, in regarding
• 56:35
  to the speed and length of this movie, it's paced really.
• 56:39
  Well, incredibly well. I think to the point where I am
• 56:42
  missing stuff because it's almost going too fast for me.
• 56:45
  Sure, I maybe expected a bit of a slower burn perhaps, and that
• 56:50
  I was surprised. I think it's one of the the sort
• 56:54
  of more magical things about this movie because it is that
• 56:56
  dense and it's under two. Yeah.
• 56:58
  And we did Cuckoo's Nest, which I love.
• 57:01
  There's no problem. Like I said, I think that's near
• 57:03
  perfect movie. That's 220.
• 57:04
  Yeah. And I would say a lot less
• 57:06
  happens in that movie than this one, despite the fact that
• 57:12
  they're both incredible and you know that whatever.
• 57:14
  The Internet did say that this that this movie had pacing
• 57:17
  issues and I was able to recognize that that was wrong.
• 57:20
  This is going at a good clip absolutely I like that but it
• 57:23
  does cause maybe me some issues. There's just no fat, so there's
• 57:27
  no time to kind of rest in it. Right When Clarice gets
• 57:29
  information, the next scene is her rushing to lecture to talk
• 57:32
  about it. That means we don't have a
• 57:34
  moment to sit with it either. That's where it's not sinking in
• 57:37
  for. It's not dramatic irony.
• 57:40
  It's not time to register and recognize and absorb and plot
• 57:44
  the next move. The characters are way ahead of
• 57:46
  us or are rushing to the next answer, the next question,
• 57:50
  before we even know what happened.
• 57:51
  What I want to figure out, though, in this next scene,
• 57:54
  which I love, the the look, he's in the room with Chilton, if you
• 57:59
  recall, and he's standing up. He's got the bars around his
• 58:03
  face pushed up against his nose. Yes.
• 58:05
  Yes. He's in a straight jacket.
• 58:07
  Yeah. And the camera zooms in on a
• 58:10
  pen. Gives us a bit of a wink and a
• 58:12
  nod to what's happening. I have an issue though, Philip,
• 58:15
  and forgive me, I'm not trying to, you know, are.
• 58:19
  You going to use that pen to poke a hole?
• 58:22
  I really don't know how he would have got that pen.
• 58:27
  Yeah, I have no answers. For you, buddy, I know it has to
• 58:29
  happen. I just figured the director
• 58:33
  writer said this movie is going to be so good we don't even
• 58:36
  care. Sure, he gets the pen.
• 58:38
  Who gives a shit? We don't feel the need to
• 58:41
  explain it 'cause we're that good.
• 58:43
  But it does bother me. Yes.
• 58:46
  It doesn't bother you, I imagine.
• 58:47
  Honestly didn't even register. I thought it was really cool.
• 58:50
  I loved it 'cause I'm like, oh, clever, nice, I like it.
• 58:54
  This is something this is going to come out later.
• 58:57
  Logistically, there's no way of getting that pen.
• 58:59
  It's ears. Have you tried to be considered
• 59:02
  some ear work? I don't know.
• 59:04
  I don't know either. But again, those are things we
• 59:06
  talked 2 minutes ago about watching movies and like paying
• 59:09
  attention and absorbing and interested information so forth.
• 59:13
  And here's an example of something that is, I would say
• 59:17
  matters not at all to the movie and you're fixated on it and
• 59:22
  plotting issues or character development you're missing.
• 59:26
  I mean, that's indicative of something, right?
• 59:28
  Like you're able to note same reason why two hours of a guy
• 59:31
  who knows, but 6 seconds of a guy, I got him exactly right.
• 59:34
  There's maybe something deeper going on going on there, but.
• 59:37
  That yeah, it's all at the bottom of it.
• 59:39
  We're five years in. We will get.
• 59:41
  To. But I do agree, like obviously,
• 59:43
  like you're saying, it doesn't make sense.
• 59:44
  It just doesn't matter that it doesn't make sense to me, but.
• 59:47
  I even like the next scene better when it comes to the
• 59:50
  look. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 59:52
  Like this is iconic. This is a pivot moment in the
• 59:54
  movie I love so much. Iconic, iconic, iconic costume
• 59:58
  design, everything. This is very horror movie like
• 1:00:01
  style. For sure.
• 1:00:02
  You know how you know it's iconic?
• 1:00:04
  How Billy Crystal? Billy Crystal.
• 1:00:08
  OK, I'll, I'll bite. I'm guessing it's something to
• 1:00:11
  do with the Oscars because he he hosted hosted every year.
• 1:00:13
  That's right. He hosted the Oscars, and this
• 1:00:15
  is how he was rolled out at the beginning of the episode of the
• 1:00:18
  telecast. I missed that year.
• 1:00:19
  Comes out on the Dolly basically in a straitjacket with the chain
• 1:00:23
  mask. Yeah, it's fantastic.
• 1:00:24
  No. Iconic.
• 1:00:25
  Iconic. Can't say it enough.
• 1:00:27
  The whole thing is great. It's incredible with the
• 1:00:29
  interaction with the senator. Oh my God, that exchange.
• 1:00:33
  It's a highlight of the movie. Love the.
• 1:00:35
  Suit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:36
  It's not a long scene, no, but it's effective.
• 1:00:39
  And Chilton is looking for his pen, and there's that slow push
• 1:00:44
  in on Lecter. Who knows what's up.
• 1:00:47
  Everything about this scene, the setup, everybody having to keep
• 1:00:49
  their distance, the pressure, if you will, all of that.
• 1:00:54
  I just saw a good scene and it really triggers.
• 1:00:57
  You want some connective tissue? Please.
• 1:00:58
  You love it. I do.
• 1:00:59
  Jim Carrey. Like we said at the beginning,
• 1:01:02
  Cable Guy. Cable Guy?
• 1:01:03
  Yeah. Does an impression.
• 1:01:04
  Yeah. You know who is in Cable Guy?
• 1:01:07
  Ben Stiller, well, he directed it.
• 1:01:09
  Yeah. The senator.
• 1:01:11
  Oh, she plays Broderick's mum. Oh, interesting.
• 1:01:14
  Playing porno password. OK, yeah, you're not getting
• 1:01:18
  that area. No, this is what I do.
• 1:01:20
  Yeah, this is what I do. Yeah, interesting.
• 1:01:22
  Yeah, I would not have guessed that.
• 1:01:24
  Yeah, that's all. There you go.
• 1:01:25
  Connective tissue you're. Welcome.
• 1:01:27
  There's two lines in this that I just love so much.
• 1:01:30
  The way in which she says take this thing back to Baltimore,
• 1:01:35
  it's mean. And his love, the suit are
• 1:01:38
  fantastic. Yeah, with Clarice, I don't
• 1:01:41
  think that there is a. He's nice, like he's nice.
• 1:01:44
  His best behavior? He's welcoming, yeah 'cause
• 1:01:46
  he's. Well, that's the whole point,
• 1:01:48
  right? To get information from him
• 1:01:49
  Exactly. To lesser his guard.
• 1:01:51
  But when he's face to face with anybody else, we see how he's
• 1:01:55
  going to manipulate Chilton with the pen.
• 1:01:58
  We see how he's kind of manipulating the senator now
• 1:02:01
  with the information that is or may or may not be true.
• 1:02:05
  It's fantastic. The power he has in the scene.
• 1:02:07
  I love it. I love his mask.
• 1:02:09
  Love your suit. That mask is great.
• 1:02:12
  Yeah, mask is better. Than the suit.
• 1:02:14
  It's fair, let's be fair, it's fair.
• 1:02:22
  We get a new location. That's right, yes.
• 1:02:25
  For Hannibal Lecter. Yeah, the transfer's complete.
• 1:02:27
  He's sitting here in Memphis and a nice ballroom it looks like.
• 1:02:30
  Yeah, Big cage. Yeah, it's like a steel cage.
• 1:02:33
  I'm thinking like this is Hulk Hogan a big Ping Kong buddy.
• 1:02:36
  You could have a good time here. But I think it's a nice touch to
• 1:02:39
  kind of get us out of there, just give us a fresh look.
• 1:02:41
  Correct. And obviously it's going to help
• 1:02:44
  move the the plot forward. Sure, obviously.
• 1:02:46
  Yeah, it's a nice. Little Cage like the whole point
• 1:02:49
  of this deal was to get better treatment, let's say.
• 1:02:52
  Let's get to that beach. Exactly.
• 1:02:54
  So now he's upscale, he's got better lighting, obviously.
• 1:02:56
  He's got room to move around books.
• 1:02:58
  He's got books. He's got music even.
• 1:03:00
  Yeah, like a little Andy Dufrane style, you know, just listen to
• 1:03:03
  some opera. She brings his paintings.
• 1:03:06
  So there's like, this camaraderie is an attempt to get
• 1:03:08
  back together almost. Because they've had some
• 1:03:11
  friction, yes, and mistrust. And it's fun.
• 1:03:14
  Like I find that the banter between the two and the
• 1:03:16
  revealing of the character in the story to be compelling and
• 1:03:19
  exciting. Almost he covets right?
• 1:03:22
  Like, oh. That's a big thing.
• 1:03:23
  Yeah, that's a big thing. How do we begin to cover right,
• 1:03:26
  like explaining these things and like getting us excited?
• 1:03:28
  I found myself like totally locked in in this moment and
• 1:03:31
  pretty much for the rest of the movie now.
• 1:03:34
  Are you compelled? Are you locked into the story as
• 1:03:36
  well? I'm trying to get over the pen,
• 1:03:40
  yeah. OK.
• 1:03:41
  That's my only real issue, Phil, at this bite.
• 1:03:43
  No, I'm pretty locked in. I find there's a lot of
• 1:03:46
  information going back and forth, and you need to
• 1:03:49
  understand certain things to really follow.
• 1:03:52
  Like the whole art of coveting. Yes.
• 1:03:54
  Everything about coveting. Yeah.
• 1:03:55
  Covet this, covet that. You need to know what that
• 1:03:57
  means. Yeah.
• 1:03:59
  Yeah. It really helps.
• 1:04:00
  Sure. So this is a pretty intellectual
• 1:04:03
  film. Totally.
• 1:04:04
  Which I struggle with. Struggle with.
• 1:04:07
  Yeah, I am sort of just relying on it to tell me the story and
• 1:04:11
  I'll pick up on it. I might be a little bit late to
• 1:04:13
  it. Sure, but I'll get it.
• 1:04:14
  Yeah, yeah. I always wondered why it was
• 1:04:17
  called Silence of the Lambs and I was too embarrassed to ask
• 1:04:20
  anyone. Oh wow.
• 1:04:21
  Or didn't even look it up. Wow.
• 1:04:23
  Because I, I mean, I just. This new algorithm too.
• 1:04:26
  That's that's true too. Suddenly.
• 1:04:28
  You get lamb information. Yeah, and I guess it's a good as
• 1:04:32
  title as any. You're picking something, a
• 1:04:33
  conversation out of the the movie.
• 1:04:36
  Yeah, sure. Yeah, I mean, ultimately the
• 1:04:38
  story is Clarice's arc. So if the plotting and the
• 1:04:41
  character is established as having these nightmare
• 1:04:45
  occurrences, these memories, these deep seated feelings
• 1:04:48
  around her childhood and the trauma that was there, some
• 1:04:51
  might call it character, but. That's what you do with Lamb.
• 1:04:55
  You slaughter them, yes, we just talked about it, but not all of
• 1:04:58
  them, you know? And maybe you don't need to see
• 1:05:00
  it like you're just talked about how you don't want to see the
• 1:05:02
  thing. I didn't tell her to go and open
• 1:05:04
  up the barn door. I stay under my sheets so I if
• 1:05:07
  any sort of noise yelling, I'm under the bed.
• 1:05:09
  Locked in, yeah, but anyway, so the whole point is to get to
• 1:05:13
  achieve the Silence of the Lambs.
• 1:05:15
  That's the ultimate goal, to stop hearing them in the night
• 1:05:18
  and the shrieks and the terror and stuff.
• 1:05:20
  So I just think, again, these are all arguments against what
• 1:05:22
  you're. Well, I just think she needs to
• 1:05:24
  let it. Go well, that's the whole point.
• 1:05:27
  I think she does through these kinds of things.
• 1:05:29
  She develops a time where she's like, closed the book on that.
• 1:05:31
  I think she consider alcohol. Just saying.
• 1:05:33
  That's an option for sure. At the end of this scene though,
• 1:05:35
  we kind of have this shared moment between the two again,
• 1:05:38
  where? Oh, you better be watching.
• 1:05:41
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 1:05:42
  Exactly. Very subtle.
• 1:05:45
  Where? Well, he keeps saying all the
• 1:05:47
  information you need is in the case file.
• 1:05:48
  It's in the case file. It's in the case file.
• 1:05:50
  And she's busted because she snuck in because Chilton was
• 1:05:53
  doing a press conference trying to better his career.
• 1:05:56
  And he goes to hand it to her. And I'm not sure if you caught
• 1:05:59
  this, of course, when you're napping.
• 1:06:01
  Nodding, but he gently glides. His finger.
• 1:06:05
  Oh yeah. What do you think of that scene?
• 1:06:07
  Weird. What do you think of that
• 1:06:08
  moment? Weird.
• 1:06:09
  Yeah, I would do it. Well, I mean, again, he's had no
• 1:06:12
  contact, especially with a female, Yep, for a very long
• 1:06:16
  time. And he feels like he's built
• 1:06:17
  this rapport. He feels like he has a
• 1:06:19
  connection. I I don't want to say friends.
• 1:06:22
  No. But there is a relationship.
• 1:06:25
  Yeah, of sorts. And he's weird, definitely.
• 1:06:29
  And yeah, I think it's, I think it suits the film.
• 1:06:32
  Totally. He's a monster right from
• 1:06:34
  everything we've heard and seen, and yet he's a he's able to have
• 1:06:38
  what is a a fairly nothing interaction and not feel
• 1:06:43
  compelled to eat her liver. Here, he's able to touch her
• 1:06:46
  without that other trigger. It's typically insatiable.
• 1:06:50
  I think it's a reminder that despite the fact he's a monster
• 1:06:54
  and he's done all these things and will continue to, he is
• 1:06:58
  still human. Sure.
• 1:07:00
  Deep down, deep down. Very deep, very deep.
• 1:07:03
  Deep in a Well, perhaps, yeah, but.
• 1:07:07
  Good things come to an end. Yeah, this is a huge turn of
• 1:07:11
  events, A big occurrence in the movie.
• 1:07:16
  Couple of big reveals right here.
• 1:07:17
  And I've been waiting for it. Yeah.
• 1:07:18
  OK. You're ready.
• 1:07:19
  Just because of all the talk that went around this movie and
• 1:07:23
  the gore, I guess of it, I figure, well, maybe it just, it
• 1:07:27
  isn't it. Maybe it's really more
• 1:07:29
  psychological and it's just the skin stuff.
• 1:07:31
  Is that it? Sure.
• 1:07:32
  Well, it's not. No, we have our good friend Mr.
• 1:07:36
  Napier. Yeah, Carlos Napier.
• 1:07:38
  Of Austin Powers fame classic. Member.
• 1:07:41
  Classic actor him from. Great face.
• 1:07:44
  Yeah, now it's time to eat. Yeah, lamb chops lamb.
• 1:07:47
  Very raw, very lightly cooked, the way he likes it.
• 1:07:51
  What are your thoughts around how his food is delivered?
• 1:07:56
  Do you have any issues with the fact that they need to go inside
• 1:08:00
  to give him the food, allowing everything to happen?
• 1:08:05
  No, it doesn't feel like it's a contrivance.
• 1:08:07
  There's no place to slide a nice cooked meal like that.
• 1:08:11
  So what What I'm saying is, this is poorly designed.
• 1:08:14
  We're at his original cell. They had the drawer.
• 1:08:17
  Yes, absolutely. This is clearly a makeshift.
• 1:08:20
  Exactly. This is not the person you
• 1:08:23
  downgrade security with. Out of all the things we've been
• 1:08:26
  told, all the things Crawford said, all the things that
• 1:08:30
  Chilton has said. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:31
  And you leave yourself vulnerable.
• 1:08:34
  You go inside this cage. Napier gets what he gets coming
• 1:08:38
  to him. Wow, sorry buddy, you're.
• 1:08:40
  If you're going to go inside like that, like come on.
• 1:08:44
  So I have a some issues around that, like the pen, but
• 1:08:48
  ultimately this has to happen. Yeah, like it it happens.
• 1:08:54
  Welsh. I would say.
• 1:08:56
  So I've imagine. Can I say this, Phil, this is
• 1:08:58
  your favorite scene? Absolutely.
• 1:09:00
  He's sick. No, actually the next the the
• 1:09:02
  scene in the ambulance, yeah. I figured this whole everything
• 1:09:05
  section of the next like 1520 minutes.
• 1:09:08
  Is like this is this is fill time.
• 1:09:09
  It's what's been validated. Yeah, 100%.
• 1:09:11
  It's what it's been building. It's like up until this point,
• 1:09:13
  it's just like a great procedural thriller, which I
• 1:09:18
  like and I love too and I'm enjoying.
• 1:09:20
  I think it's. Perfectly delivering.
• 1:09:21
  This is where we go our separate ways.
• 1:09:23
  Here you get a moment where he gets to be the lecture that
• 1:09:25
  we've heard about the moment he has an opportunity, the way he
• 1:09:29
  lunges at the camera with his mouth, like ready to chew the
• 1:09:32
  guy's nose off. He's been a while beating with
• 1:09:34
  the baton. The kind of rye humor of having
• 1:09:37
  bon appetit. The the magazine on the counter
• 1:09:40
  as he's cleaning up is clever to me.
• 1:09:43
  Ironically, he looks anemic like his skin.
• 1:09:45
  Is pretty translucent. Yeah, so I think it's because
• 1:09:48
  his body is used to all the meat.
• 1:09:50
  Sure. He's not getting it.
• 1:09:51
  So the iron, yeah, you got to have the.
• 1:09:53
  Iron. But I love the scene in which he
• 1:09:54
  attacks, and I think it's so visceral and exciting.
• 1:09:59
  And then he grabs the switchblade and walks quietly.
• 1:10:03
  Yeah, out of frame. And who's to say what's going to
• 1:10:06
  happen next? Like right?
• 1:10:07
  They leave that to our imagination for a while.
• 1:10:09
  For a while, yeah. And I will say, Phillip, for a
• 1:10:12
  guy who doesn't like that stuff, I probably wouldn't have liked
• 1:10:14
  it back in. When you're 12/13/14.
• 1:10:17
  Or even 20 now. It's like, OK, well, I've seen
• 1:10:19
  enough now and they hold back a little.
• 1:10:22
  Bit I love the white and the blood on his white jumpsuit.
• 1:10:25
  So there is like a sense of like violence has happened.
• 1:10:27
  Sure, but we don't. Yeah, we don't.
• 1:10:29
  See it all? Yes.
• 1:10:30
  So I I do kind of like that. Short lived.
• 1:10:34
  Yeah, Yes, exactly. This little reprieve is, yeah,
• 1:10:37
  short lived. And obviously the cops, the
• 1:10:40
  SWAT, they're all alerted of something to do with the
• 1:10:43
  elevator. Yeah, well, they're seeing it go
• 1:10:45
  up, like no one went up. Why is it going down?
• 1:10:46
  Anything that's happening, we are in the same page as the cops
• 1:10:50
  in this. And so when they're looking at
• 1:10:51
  the elevator, they're like, whoa, what's going on?
• 1:10:54
  We have a sense of what happened, but we don't yet know,
• 1:10:57
  right? And I think that's exciting.
• 1:10:59
  And certainly when they're coming into the room, that is
• 1:11:01
  such a jarring, incredible image, I think, and the cops run
• 1:11:06
  into. As they enter the ballroom and
• 1:11:08
  see Napier, yeah Oh my God, gutted.
• 1:11:11
  Like an Archangel, like over the thing and going from the close
• 1:11:15
  up all the way out. Like the it's disgusting in a
• 1:11:19
  magical way. Like in a beautiful way.
• 1:11:21
  Breathtaking. A little bit.
• 1:11:23
  I I question it logistically of. Course.
• 1:11:25
  I have Phil. It's my job here.
• 1:11:27
  Absolutely I am. I am the humbler.
• 1:11:29
  Yes. I got to keep you grounded.
• 1:11:31
  Yeah. Regardless, Napier's up there
• 1:11:33
  now. That's right, the system.
• 1:11:36
  Can't undo that. Nope.
• 1:11:38
  There's the other guy, yes, Which?
• 1:11:41
  Pembry. Yeah, Phillip, let's talk about
• 1:11:44
  that. Sure man, down man.
• 1:11:45
  Yeah, I had curiosities, OK. I had ideas, OK that something
• 1:11:53
  wasn't as it seemed. OK, I knew this.
• 1:11:57
  Point at this point, OK, there's a shot of the other cop.
• 1:12:02
  Yep. On the ground, yes.
• 1:12:03
  I don't know. Something didn't sit well.
• 1:12:07
  Everything's a choice. Yeah.
• 1:12:08
  So you're like, why am I seeing this guy?
• 1:12:09
  Exactly why am I seeing this guy?
• 1:12:12
  Sure, it's at that point that something isn't as it seems.
• 1:12:15
  So when the guy says he's alive, you have a suspicion or you're
• 1:12:19
  just curious? It's just something, OK.
• 1:12:22
  And then we find out very quickly what it is.
• 1:12:25
  Yeah, I shouldn't say. Not that quickly, which I love
• 1:12:28
  because they do a a fairly good job, I think, of masking,
• 1:12:35
  masking what happened and the misdirection.
• 1:12:39
  When they're in the elevator and now they've got the white
• 1:12:42
  jumpsuit on the top. They fire the lone gun into the
• 1:12:45
  leg No response. What I really love is that they
• 1:12:50
  talk about how he's got a pulse, he's got it, and that's a call
• 1:12:54
  back to he ate this woman's liver and kept his pulse at 85
• 1:12:59
  beats a minute, right? So the implication is he knows
• 1:13:01
  how to do this. But he's very.
• 1:13:03
  Good. So when it's revealed, it's not
• 1:13:04
  like bullshit, you know Deus Ex machina, just plot contrivance.
• 1:13:10
  Make it happen, right? They've set it up at the
• 1:13:12
  beginning of the movie that he can do this and what he does is
• 1:13:16
  fucking great. Yeah, it's a bit of a stretch of
• 1:13:19
  of the skin, like the the ability for him to carve off the
• 1:13:25
  skin and basically put it on his face.
• 1:13:29
  Yeah, yeah. That is talent, Yeah.
• 1:13:33
  I'm not going to say Phil. I'm not going to say
• 1:13:35
  contrivance. No, I'm not saying it.
• 1:13:37
  I've already said it. Yeah, but it's wrong.
• 1:13:40
  And I didn't have any real issues, but the reveal of it in
• 1:13:42
  the ambulance. It's incredible.
• 1:13:44
  You have to give me that. It's very good.
• 1:13:49
  I think it's perfect. It's so good.
• 1:13:51
  The scene itself is is well done.
• 1:13:53
  I I the make up of it is incredibly gross.
• 1:13:56
  Sure, Yeah, in the best ways. And that whole misdirection gave
• 1:14:01
  me just enough to wonder about something without knowing what
• 1:14:04
  it was. And then they execute it and
• 1:14:06
  like, Oh my God. Yeah, well, play, it's, it's
• 1:14:09
  phenomenal. And what I also like is that it
• 1:14:11
  sort of follows up with Clarice's complete ambivalence
• 1:14:15
  to it, which is to say that she's worn now he's out, he's
• 1:14:18
  going to come here and he she's like, no.
• 1:14:20
  She's she's fine. She's not.
• 1:14:21
  Worried wouldn't be, it wouldn't be polite as she says, like
• 1:14:24
  that's that relationship, which I think is why these characters
• 1:14:27
  I think are so interesting, especially even 30 years later,
• 1:14:29
  is that there's a comfort in this dynamic that is off
• 1:14:34
  considering what we just watched happen.
• 1:14:35
  He gutted and ate someone's insides, hung them up and then
• 1:14:39
  cut someone's face off and wore that out into the free world.
• 1:14:43
  And she's like, I'm safe, I'm good.
• 1:14:46
  A little bit of it's a false sense of comfort, though, OK, I
• 1:14:49
  think she has a right to feel that way.
• 1:14:52
  But at the same time. Should be a little worried.
• 1:14:54
  Well, it's just, you know, just still.
• 1:14:57
  He's still that monster, Sure, but I don't know.
• 1:15:01
  Yeah, I mean, ultimately, at the time they certainly didn't
• 1:15:03
  anticipate a sequel, so who's to say?
• 1:15:06
  But I really like it just as a character choice for her to be
• 1:15:09
  so nonchalant about it. Correct, that's the right choice
• 1:15:11
  to make. She's like, it's not polite and
• 1:15:13
  just the idea that that would even factor in, like, that's the
• 1:15:16
  thing, right? But she is still on the case.
• 1:15:18
  She's still doggedly on the case.
• 1:15:19
  She has the case file that he gave her.
• 1:15:22
  So while he is effectively out of the movie now, yes, this case
• 1:15:26
  now pivots to Clarice's on her own.
• 1:15:29
  While she has a friend. Sure.
• 1:15:30
  But principally is on her own to solve the case with the case
• 1:15:33
  file that was given. Everything is in there and
• 1:15:36
  everything's in there and now she has to be detective and
• 1:15:38
  where she's kind of rising through the ranks in a short
• 1:15:41
  time frame to actually put together what is going on.
• 1:15:44
  And the way in which that plays out I think is fantastic cuz
• 1:15:47
  she's now on a lead. It's all about the leads, as you
• 1:15:50
  know. It's all about the leads because
• 1:15:51
  she's talking to fellow Co worker.
• 1:15:54
  Yeah, yeah, FBI. Agent And one thing that
• 1:15:58
  Hannibal mentioned was that Buffalo Bill was desperately
• 1:16:02
  random. And Clarice is like, well, the
• 1:16:04
  computer would have, you know, picked up on it, of course.
• 1:16:07
  Sure. Computers even in 92, yeah. 91
• 1:16:10
  AB 100%. Yeah.
• 1:16:11
  But this basically has her going back to Ground Zero.
• 1:16:15
  Like we're the first victim. Yeah.
• 1:16:17
  And it's all about that covet. Yep.
• 1:16:19
  So if you again, if you don't know what coveting means, you're
• 1:16:22
  going to struggle. Yeah.
• 1:16:23
  I'm not saying that to me, but this leads to the small town I
• 1:16:27
  believe it's called Belvedere, could be Ohio.
• 1:16:30
  Yeah, I'll take it. I don't know.
• 1:16:32
  I won't argue all. Right.
• 1:16:33
  Good. And she goes to the home of the
• 1:16:36
  first victim. That's right.
• 1:16:38
  Just to check it out. Yeah, and she kind of discovers
• 1:16:42
  that there was maybe a secretive affair, that she was taking some
• 1:16:45
  photos. Yeah.
• 1:16:47
  She was a big girl, as he says. Earlier size 14 I imagine.
• 1:16:50
  That's right. So we get a sense that there was
• 1:16:53
  a relationship built in this little town.
• 1:16:56
  It's a little weird, but sees the sewing.
• 1:16:58
  That's the thing that sort of tips her off.
• 1:17:00
  Yeah. How do you feel about that?
• 1:17:01
  I love it, OK. It feels like the culmination of
• 1:17:04
  a story we've been telling, as opposed to random finishing of a
• 1:17:09
  chapter that we never started. Doesn't feel rushed.
• 1:17:12
  Doesn't feel contrived. No, I'm perfectly fine with
• 1:17:14
  that. I don't think Crawford should be
• 1:17:19
  following the lead that he's following though.
• 1:17:21
  Oh no, Louis. Friend, I think it's pretty
• 1:17:23
  obvious that that's not right. Really.
• 1:17:26
  Yeah, tell me one. I just think there it's it's too
• 1:17:29
  obvious that they're being misdirected.
• 1:17:31
  Sure. However, he's better than that.
• 1:17:33
  Yeah, I do think Crawford's better than that.
• 1:17:34
  However, the cut where they ring on the doorbell, they're about
• 1:17:39
  to raid what they think. Is the killer's home?
• 1:17:43
  Sure. And they cut to her.
• 1:17:45
  It's phenomenal. That, that is good.
• 1:17:46
  It's phenomenal. That is good.
• 1:17:48
  It's incredible way to end the movie and we know that because
• 1:17:51
  in the scene prior he says don't worry about it, we've got the
• 1:17:56
  guy and we see the photo is not the guy.
• 1:18:00
  Yes, exactly. If I'm Buffalo Bill, I'm not
• 1:18:02
  answering the door. I don't answer the door at all
• 1:18:05
  anymore because it's usually telemarketers like, you know,
• 1:18:07
  door to door sales people. Interesting.
• 1:18:09
  Yeah, not a people person, I just.
• 1:18:11
  I can't say no. So if you're coming around with
• 1:18:14
  charitable donation, I gave money to a charity for four
• 1:18:18
  years. Wow.
• 1:18:20
  Yeah. And I finally cut it off and it
• 1:18:21
  was a pain in the butt to do so. Oh yeah, sure.
• 1:18:23
  I I. Don't give away that money.
• 1:18:25
  I wrote a strongly worded e-mail, I'd be very proud of it
• 1:18:29
  and I actually got a eventually got a response.
• 1:18:30
  It will take care of it. I had to cancel my credit card.
• 1:18:33
  That's how bad it. Was that's how bad it was
• 1:18:34
  because they weren't responding and they weren't, I was calling
• 1:18:37
  them, leaving messages. So I just don't answer the door
• 1:18:39
  anymore. I bought meats, Meat.
• 1:18:42
  Someone showed up at the house, Someone showed up at the house
• 1:18:45
  and it was like a subscription for meats or something.
• 1:18:48
  And I was. I also cannot say no.
• 1:18:50
  Did it look like Hannibal? Lecter No, no, just like this
• 1:18:52
  looked like a high school, college like young kid with like
• 1:18:55
  hey, we're just new in town. We're starting up this shop and
• 1:18:57
  and we'll send you cuts of lamb or cuts of brisket or whatever I
• 1:19:01
  bought. Strange.
• 1:19:02
  Meat. I bought like the subscription
• 1:19:04
  for it. OK.
• 1:19:05
  My girlfriend basically just ran out and said, like, you know
• 1:19:08
  what? No, we're not doing that.
• 1:19:10
  But I was so like, yeah, OK, OK. I guess so.
• 1:19:13
  I like meat. I like meat.
• 1:19:14
  Yeah. And you look like a good kid.
• 1:19:16
  Sure, let's do it. Just take the skin off 20 bucks
• 1:19:18
  a month, whatever, you know? And anyway, so we did fix that,
• 1:19:21
  but we have Catherine kind of trying to deal with Precious
• 1:19:24
  with the bone, trying to lure her in, which I kind of like,
• 1:19:27
  but it does try to get a hostage.
• 1:19:28
  Yeah, exactly. Or eat the dog.
• 1:19:30
  That's right, because she's probably hungry.
• 1:19:32
  Yeah, totally. What else is happening at this
• 1:19:34
  point is we see Buffalo Bill in this sort of full regalia.
• 1:19:39
  You look like a guy out of the Poison Band.
• 1:19:41
  That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
• 1:19:44
  You know Bret Michaels, Absolutely.
• 1:19:46
  To me you look like a normal. Guy from the 80s.
• 1:19:49
  Yeah, OK. From the 90s, Yeah.
• 1:19:50
  A little Hairspray, a little this, a little that.
• 1:19:52
  Rocking out. Yeah.
• 1:19:53
  Now I suppose the question is, would you fuck?
• 1:19:56
  Him, I don't know, I it depends on my mood.
• 1:20:00
  Would you fuck me? I'd fuck me.
• 1:20:02
  But he clearly has identity issues.
• 1:20:04
  Yeah, and this is his full transformation.
• 1:20:07
  We're watching it, you know, Or at least maybe not full because
• 1:20:09
  he wants to. Wear this.
• 1:20:10
  He's working on it. He's working on it.
• 1:20:12
  I think it's a great scene. It's a great moment because it's
• 1:20:14
  really like chilling, right? You're really like, who is this
• 1:20:17
  guy, right? We've only heard and seen little
• 1:20:19
  glimpses here and there, right? We haven't really spent a ton.
• 1:20:22
  Of yeah, not a lot of character depth.
• 1:20:23
  Not with him, no, to be fair. And you got to finish his off
• 1:20:28
  the scene with Mr. Winky, I guess.
• 1:20:30
  Yeah, I mean, it's he pulls a, he pulls an einhorn.
• 1:20:33
  Yeah, he does pull an einhorn, absolutely.
• 1:20:35
  You can do that, no, you know, maybe once or.
• 1:20:38
  Times nothing to be shamed about, buddy.
• 1:20:40
  Maybe once or twice. Didn't Todd, what's his name?
• 1:20:42
  Tommy Lee and Pam. Absolutely.
• 1:20:44
  Tommy Lee Can. Tommy Lee did it.
• 1:20:45
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:20:46
  It's a cool moment. It's sort of arms outstretched
• 1:20:48
  there, not unlike Mr. Napier. Yes, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:20:52
  But alive at this point. But yeah, so Clarice is still
• 1:20:55
  kind of busting, you know, working the shoe letter in the
• 1:20:57
  neighborhood, trying to find out who the guy is, some friends and
• 1:20:59
  family and what have you. And that's right.
• 1:21:02
  We're going from the intercutting between the the
• 1:21:05
  doorbells at both apartments or both houses.
• 1:21:08
  It's brilliantly edited, brilliantly conceived and
• 1:21:10
  constructed. And then when we realize, oh
• 1:21:13
  shit, there is no backup, and how Crawford at that point goes
• 1:21:18
  Clarice, like he recognizes that she is alone and in the back
• 1:21:23
  with the bad guy. What are your thoughts on how
• 1:21:25
  this culminates? I'm assuming at this point I
• 1:21:27
  didn't pick it up at the beginning of the movie, but when
• 1:21:29
  she was doing some FBI training and she was, quote, UN quote,
• 1:21:33
  killed. Yeah.
• 1:21:34
  Because she didn't check the corners, didn't look in the
• 1:21:37
  corners. Yeah.
• 1:21:37
  I figured now at this point, that's foreshadowing to her cat
• 1:21:41
  and mouse session here. Sure.
• 1:21:43
  Yeah. I would say if I, if I can call
• 1:21:44
  it that, please. She locates the senator's
• 1:21:46
  daughter. Yeah.
• 1:21:48
  And she's not very thankful that she's been found.
• 1:21:50
  Those are, no, she's kind of pretty.
• 1:21:51
  Those are a bitch, Yeah. But fair enough.
• 1:21:53
  She's gone through some stuff and been bind there.
• 1:21:55
  But now we're just trying to locate Buffalo Bill, who we know
• 1:21:59
  has a gun. Yes, we know he's got it.
• 1:22:01
  Was sitting on the stove. The camera made sure we knew it
• 1:22:03
  was there. Obviously, she knows it's him
• 1:22:05
  because of the butterfly. Yeah.
• 1:22:07
  At this point, it's clear. It's all revealed. 100% this is
• 1:22:10
  it. Yes.
• 1:22:11
  And I love the call back to the infrared.
• 1:22:14
  Isn't it? Good.
• 1:22:15
  He shuts down the power. Fucking genius.
• 1:22:17
  That's what you do. That's what you do in that
• 1:22:19
  situation. And this, thematically, is one
• 1:22:23
  of the highlights of the film. Yeah.
• 1:22:26
  Watching her through the infrared and she's in pitch.
• 1:22:29
  Black is really good. How terrified she?
• 1:22:32
  Is Oh my. God, uncomfortable she is, how
• 1:22:35
  reticent she is, how yes, lost she is 100% yeah.
• 1:22:40
  She plays this really, really, really well, yeah.
• 1:22:43
  I think it's incredible. A lot of great camera.
• 1:22:45
  Shots in this movie, I joke about a lot of close-ups.
• 1:22:48
  And again, that was somebody on the Internet that that mentioned
• 1:22:51
  that. But here with the close-ups of
• 1:22:54
  him wearing the infrared like this is good filmmaking.
• 1:22:57
  This is This is why this wins an Oscar for for direction.
• 1:23:00
  Yeah, in my opinion. It's also great at the moment
• 1:23:03
  that kind of tips him off because we have his POV, He's
• 1:23:06
  reaching out and he's kind of messing with her.
• 1:23:09
  But also I think he's captivated.
• 1:23:11
  Like he touches her hair and that is fucking chilling to me.
• 1:23:15
  Like to recognize that he could get couple of inches away from
• 1:23:18
  her face or from her hair and she has no idea.
• 1:23:22
  That is very, very creepy. I wonder how many takes this
• 1:23:25
  took. It's a good question.
• 1:23:27
  I don't know. We always talk to say all in
• 1:23:29
  one. Got it All in one take.
• 1:23:31
  That's right. It's an incredible 10 minute
• 1:23:33
  showcase of not only filmmaking but performance and you know,
• 1:23:37
  all is well that ends well ultimately.
• 1:23:39
  Catherine is saved, Buffalo Bill is dead and Crawford and
• 1:23:43
  Clarice, they kind of get to share a moment.
• 1:23:45
  Do you? Think Crawford wants to sleep
• 1:23:47
  with? Her 100%.
• 1:23:48
  OK, Absolutely. So does everybody.
• 1:23:50
  Thanks for clarifying that. Except for Bulldog.
• 1:23:51
  All right, He's not interested. Yeah.
• 1:23:54
  Are you satisfied? I mean, you like this movie,
• 1:23:56
  obviously, but you like it from A-Z.
• 1:23:58
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's not anything wrong with
• 1:24:01
  it. There are things that may not be
• 1:24:03
  as great as they could be, or whatever else you can maybe
• 1:24:05
  scrutinize, but ultimately it's as good as it gets when it comes
• 1:24:09
  to it. There's nothing in this movie
• 1:24:11
  that I think is poorly conceived, poorly written,
• 1:24:14
  poorly directed, poorly performed.
• 1:24:16
  There's nothing in it that sticks out as being mediocre.
• 1:24:19
  Everybody's doing great work and it has ultimately one of my
• 1:24:23
  favorite endings, certainly my one of my favorite last lines in
• 1:24:26
  a movie. Ever.
• 1:24:28
  I think it's a really good cake. It's a nice cake, really nice
• 1:24:31
  cake. Yeah, like I want that cake.
• 1:24:34
  I believe you do, yeah. But obviously.
• 1:24:36
  Looks like you may have already had it actually.
• 1:24:39
  But you're kind of getting to the fact that is Hannibal is
• 1:24:41
  still alive. Yes.
• 1:24:42
  She gets a phone call. We know it's him.
• 1:24:45
  Congratulations. Yeah.
• 1:24:46
  And then we see him in another country.
• 1:24:49
  You know. With an amazing wig.
• 1:24:52
  So good. Like, I love his outfit.
• 1:24:53
  I love his look and. And Chilton getting off a plane.
• 1:24:58
  Yeah, yeah. And Hannibal can't chat too
• 1:25:00
  much. Longer on the phone because he's
• 1:25:02
  having an old friend for dinner. Yep, classic clever.
• 1:25:06
  Not over for dinner, No, not under for dinner.
• 1:25:08
  Not for dinner. Just an old friend for dinner.
• 1:25:12
  Old friend for dinner. Yeah, as we watch Chilton
• 1:25:14
  obnoxiously get off the small plane with his fishing rod and
• 1:25:17
  suitcase. Is he trying to get away?
• 1:25:20
  I. Don't think so if you.
• 1:25:22
  Watched that last scene. You see?
• 1:25:24
  Chilton constantly looking. Around as if he's paranoid.
• 1:25:29
  Maybe he I think he's on the run.
• 1:25:31
  Interesting. He's afraid.
• 1:25:33
  After all, the. Things he did to Hannibal.
• 1:25:35
  With the gospel. Yeah, sure.
• 1:25:37
  And so he thinks that Hannibal's still in Nashville.
• 1:25:40
  And he's saying I got to go. South to get.
• 1:25:42
  Away from him, yeah. And.
• 1:25:44
  And Lecter's already waiting for him.
• 1:25:46
  I don't know. I could be.
• 1:25:48
  I could be. It's a great way to end a movie,
• 1:25:50
  yeah. It's a perfect way to end a
• 1:25:52
  movie. I think.
• 1:25:53
  I just love so much about it and I don't watch.
• 1:25:55
  This movie a lot. So it's a nice reminder to me
• 1:25:57
  how good this movie is because for whatever reason, it's just
• 1:26:01
  not one that's always on my mind and I don't watch it all that
• 1:26:04
  often. I got the 4K from Criterion and
• 1:26:06
  that was a thing, so I'm happy for that and I kind of got into
• 1:26:09
  it at that point. But that was years ago now,
• 1:26:11
  right? So it's a nice reminder.
• 1:26:13
  What's your final thoughts on the movie?
• 1:26:15
  I think overall it's a good film, I think if you like this.
• 1:26:20
  Genre. I think it delivers on almost
• 1:26:22
  every level of it. The performances are out of the
• 1:26:26
  park. Strongest asset to the film.
• 1:26:30
  I think the directing is really well done.
• 1:26:32
  They maximize the scenes the best they can.
• 1:26:35
  They don't leave anything on the table.
• 1:26:38
  I do have a couple issues with, you know, plotting pens and
• 1:26:41
  whatnot. Yeah, with, with a pen.
• 1:26:43
  I have an issue with the pen. I I wonder.
• 1:26:45
  If writes upside. Down sure.
• 1:26:47
  I'm curious to know that, but I'm willing to overlook that
• 1:26:51
  because I'm a reasonable man. Philip, I don't think it's a 10
• 1:26:54
  out of 10. I think watching this movie 30
• 1:26:57
  years later says, OK, this is a good film.
• 1:27:02
  I enjoyed this film. Is it 5 Oscars?
• 1:27:05
  I think is really well marketed, OK, When it came out, sure,
• 1:27:09
  everybody knew about this movie. And it's a good.
• 1:27:12
  Movie, but I just don't think it's a 10 out of 10.
• 1:27:15
  All right yeah, I think it's a a good solid film within the genre
• 1:27:20
  that it's doing all right and I'm glad I have watched it.
• 1:27:23
  Sure, I would probably maybe watch it one more time.
• 1:27:26
  It does mildly make me curious to see what the sequel is about.
• 1:27:31
  OK, interesting. Interesting.
• 1:27:33
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, cuz it does. Leave it open.
• 1:27:34
  He's still out, right? So there's a story there.
• 1:27:38
  I have reservations because I know how sequels do, and this
• 1:27:41
  was like a really big film when it came out.
• 1:27:44
  Big shoes to fill, totally. So Ridley Scott directed and Ray
• 1:27:49
  Liotta. Comes in OK and Julianne Moore
• 1:27:52
  comes in to play Clarice. Jodie Foster does not return.
• 1:27:56
  Oh, I don't like that. So that might be a a deterrent
• 1:27:58
  if you will just do a different. Character at that point, yeah,
• 1:28:01
  some of the creative. Team decided why we're not doing
• 1:28:03
  this. Lecter.
• 1:28:05
  However, Anthony Hopkins was happy to take the check.
• 1:28:08
  Interesting. All right, then, I'll read up on
• 1:28:10
  it. Please do.
• 1:28:12
  You know, as I said, I've said throughout the movie.
• 1:28:13
  This movie just, it's incredible.
• 1:28:16
  It's so good. I think it deserves all the
• 1:28:18
  Oscars it won, probably could have won a few more and deserved
• 1:28:20
  it. I remembered the movie, but I
• 1:28:23
  didn't think I was going to like it as much as I did, even though
• 1:28:25
  I kind of knew that it was. Yeah.
• 1:28:26
  I was going to ask you that movie, you know, is it?
• 1:28:28
  What did you enjoy as much this time as before?
• 1:28:32
  Yeah. Has it lost anything?
• 1:28:33
  I think it's actually more right because as a kid I'm interested
• 1:28:36
  in certain things, but what? About when you watch it, when
• 1:28:38
  you're like in your 20s early. Yeah, I every time I'm surprised
• 1:28:41
  by how good. It is OK and what ends up
• 1:28:43
  happening is the more I watch. Movies or the more I kind of
• 1:28:45
  study them or care about them or whatever else, then it becomes
• 1:28:48
  the craft becomes the thing that I focus on.
• 1:28:50
  There's always something you can sink your teeth into.
• 1:28:52
  I think so. And then when you get a piece
• 1:28:54
  like this where everything. Is working at such high?
• 1:28:56
  Levels that you can look anywhere on the frame, any
• 1:29:00
  performance, any look in an eye, anything.
• 1:29:02
  And you're like, I'm locked, like this is perfect.
• 1:29:06
  So the movie itself isn't necessarily perfect, but
• 1:29:07
  everything within it, all the components are so high quality
• 1:29:11
  that it becomes a joy to watch. And that's how I felt watching.
• 1:29:14
  I was like, this is a joy for me and it's been a joy to chat
• 1:29:17
  about it for the last little while here.
• 1:29:19
  So thank you, listeners. I hope you felt some of that joy
• 1:29:22
  come through. Please join us on the Facebook
• 1:29:24
  page. Of course, like the podcast
• 1:29:25
  rated five stars in your pod, catcher of choice subscribes.
• 1:29:29
  You never miss an episode. And most importantly, share the
• 1:29:31
  podcast with any friends and neighbors.
• 1:29:33
  Anybody with or without a pen in their hand.
• 1:29:36
  Please don't feel like you're in a straight jacket.
• 1:29:39
  Find them and get them on board. Thanks so much.