Latest / Wall Friends / WoW to OSRS: Xaryu

Transcript

WoW to OSRS: Xaryu · Wall Friends

• 0:00
  Welcome back to the podcast miniseries Wow to Old School,
• 0:03
  where I'm talking with Wow creators that tried old School
• 0:05
  Runescape. See what they thought about it,
• 0:07
  see what they're thinking about Wow now and everything in
• 0:10
  between. Try and understand a little more
• 0:12
  about those brains of theirs. This last guest of the series is
• 0:15
  someone who's been extremely proactive when it comes to
• 0:18
  ideas, especially regarding classic plus recently.
• 0:21
  He really embodies the meaning of wholesome streamer.
• 0:24
  Just a friendly guy, good vibes all around.
• 0:27
  He's a PvP uh, he's a hardcore player, and most importantly,
• 0:30
  he's an AFK gem crabber. Too much of that last one,
• 0:34
  probably. Hope you guys enjoy listening to
• 0:36
  this discussion with Czar You. All right, czar you thank you so
• 0:49
  much for doing this. First and foremost, it's very
• 0:53
  exciting to finally just be in a in a one-on-one call.
• 0:55
  I feel like we were only in 30 man calls during only things for
• 0:59
  a second. So it's cool to finally get to
• 1:02
  talk to you because we've also communicated a lot through
• 1:05
  reactions. It seems I've I've heard a lot
• 1:07
  of your opinions on different MMO topics and you know wow
• 1:11
  topics. So this is going to be very fun
• 1:15
  to talk about it for real this time.
• 1:17
  Absolutely, Jimmy, thanks for having me, man.
• 1:19
  It's an absolute pleasure to be on and just talk about Mmos.
• 1:22
  They're my favorite thing like ever.
• 1:23
  So being able to being able to just be done and chat about
• 1:28
  Runescape and Wow and everything in between is sounds like a fun,
• 1:32
  fun way to spend a Saturday. So.
• 1:33
  Let's do it. So just to get a little
• 1:37
  background here, how long have you been playing World of
• 1:40
  Warcraft? I've been playing since 2004.
• 1:44
  The game came out in 2004 for reference.
• 1:46
  So I've been playing the whole time.
• 1:47
  I've taken little breaks here and there, but pretty much the
• 1:51
  the whole entire the whole time. Like launch day, like launch day
• 1:55
  2004. Or was it like you started
• 1:57
  hearing everybody else playing, so you're like, I got to see
• 2:00
  that now? I you know, I actually don't
• 2:01
  know the exact like day I started.
• 2:04
  If I had to guess it would be like a couple months after the
• 2:07
  game tromped, so not launch day, but maybe maybe a few months
• 2:11
  out. I remember on my server there
• 2:14
  wasn't any, like there wasn't a ton of level 60s on my server.
• 2:18
  So like almost everyone was still levelling.
• 2:20
  And if you saw a level 60 it was pretty cool.
• 2:22
  Like wow, this guy's Max level, you know?
• 2:25
  So it was pretty early on to where 60s were rare, but I I
• 2:28
  would guess probably a couple months in at least.
• 2:30
  Yeah, I, I, I remember, you know, there's, there's been a
• 2:33
  ton of stories about A membership because that was
• 2:36
  always a big topic for, you know, what MMO you play.
• 2:40
  And I, I, I remember you talking about your system that you had
• 2:43
  with your parents. And I'll let you tell it of like
• 2:45
  how you got your Wow membership. Oh man, so I've shared this
• 2:50
  story on stream once or twice. I, I basically, I have my old
• 2:55
  school World of Warcraft box from 2004.
• 2:58
  And I didn't know this, it was my mom's attic the whole time.
• 3:01
  And my mom was like, Hey, do you want this?
• 3:02
  And I'm like, yes, absolutely. You know, so she gives it to me
• 3:07
  or whatever. And I open the box and in it is
• 3:10
  a, is a piece of paper. And I unfold the piece of paper
• 3:14
  and written on the paper was my 12 year old handwriting.
• 3:18
  And it was a contract. And I didn't actually remember
• 3:20
  this until I saw it. And the contract basically said,
• 3:25
  you know, I am able to play Wow as long as I don't talk back and
• 3:31
  do my chores and listen to my parents.
• 3:34
  And I signed it and my parents signed it.
• 3:35
  And it was like a little spreadsheet of the payback,
• 3:39
  right? So I had to like pay my parents
• 3:41
  back for the box price and for the membership by doing chores
• 3:45
  and, you know, working on things and stuff like that.
• 3:48
  And I eventually paid them back. There was a little check marks
• 3:52
  on each little box and I guess they let me play for that
• 3:55
  reason. So thank you mom and dad it.
• 3:58
  Was an absolute. It was.
• 3:59
  It was a grind to be able to grind, basically.
• 4:02
  That's right, that's right. It's.
• 4:03
  Crazy. Yeah, no, there was no
• 4:05
  opportunity for me to have that system at all.
• 4:07
  It was not even a question. It was a $5 membership to
• 4:12
  Runescape or nothing basically. So you know, didn't didn't get
• 4:15
  to play Wow until like 2 years ago for the first time.
• 4:18
  Didn't have to do any chores for it, which is great, but.
• 4:22
  That's funny enough, I don't know if if you heard about this
• 4:25
  but my game before Wow was Runescape I.
• 4:29
  Do remember you talking about that?
• 4:31
  Yeah. Based.
• 4:34
  OK, I know what you're talking about.
• 4:35
  Let's get into that in a minute. But yeah, no, before Wow, I
• 4:39
  played Runescape in like whenever it got popular and came
• 4:43
  out. What was it like 2001, 2000
• 4:46
  like? Yeah, I think like the the
• 4:49
  version like if you're so like classic Runescape was out in
• 4:52
  2001 where it was like the sprites characters like the
• 4:55
  really just two D kind of environment.
• 4:59
  But the the version of the game that we see that is based off
• 5:02
  of, you know, the old school look is like too late 2002 and
• 5:08
  then 2003 when it officially launched.
• 5:11
  So probably like around there is one of you were playing.
• 5:15
  Yeah, that sounds about right. I remember everyone in my
• 5:19
  school, like, you know, playing Runescape and talking about.
• 5:22
  And I hopped on and it was just like, that was my first MMO.
• 5:26
  I'd say Runescape was the first game I got like really addicted
• 5:29
  to. And I just played on my mom's
• 5:31
  computer after school. And then eventually I got my own
• 5:34
  computer and it was, oh, man, I I loved it.
• 5:38
  I loved Runescape so much. And I don't want to jump ahead
• 5:41
  too much here, but when I've been looking for an excuse to
• 5:46
  stream Runescape on my stream for like, I don't know, 10510
• 5:52
  years because I'm like, I would love to play Runescape on my
• 5:54
  stream one day. But you know, as a streamer, you
• 5:57
  got to do things that you want to do, but you also have to do
• 5:59
  things that other people want to watch, right?
• 6:01
  Like it's a mix. And so I'm, I've always, I've
• 6:05
  always been like eyeing my excuse to, to hop on Runescape.
• 6:09
  And then when all my friends hopped over, I was like, oh.
• 6:11
  Here we go yeah, finally, yeah yeah.
• 6:16
  So there was AI mean we have to talk about it just because it
• 6:19
  was it was so funny with the wood cutting thing of like you
• 6:23
  had an account back that like that account that you first
• 6:25
  played. And like I know the feeling of
• 6:29
  like thinking back to childhood memories, especially with
• 6:33
  something like Runescape where you just think about these
• 6:36
  grinds that you did within your kid mind and just thinking that
• 6:40
  it was so much more intense and like accomplishing that it
• 6:44
  actually was. When in fact, like if you just
• 6:48
  lay it out on the table nowadays, it's like I barely did
• 6:51
  anything like compared to what people are doing now and.
• 6:55
  Like you had some kind of situation with wood cutting that
• 6:58
  Jag X moderators, like current Jag X moderators actually got
• 7:01
  involved with, if I remember correctly.
• 7:03
  OK, yeah, let's let's, I'll tell the story.
• 7:06
  So basically, like I said, I've played a bunch of Runescape as a
• 7:09
  kid and my first stream on Runescape just a few months ago,
• 7:13
  you know, because all my friends were playing.
• 7:15
  I was like, all right, guys, I used to play Runescape as a kid
• 7:18
  and I love this game. I got to 99 wood shopping and I
• 7:21
  called it wood shopping. So right away that was a red
• 7:25
  flag. Like I said.
• 7:29
  I mean, I haven't played since. Yeah.
• 7:31
  What is it? 2004 is when I quit Runescape
• 7:34
  for a while. So it's been 21 years.
• 7:37
  So it's been a long, it's, I mean, it's been a long time.
• 7:39
  Yeah. Anyway, I was like, yeah, I was
• 7:43
  99, wood shopping and everyone in my chat, instantly it was
• 7:47
  like, no, you weren't. And I was like, what do you
• 7:50
  mean? I wasn't?
• 7:51
  Of course I was. I remember this.
• 7:52
  This was a big deal to me. Like, I really, really like
• 7:56
  remember this, Like come on, guys.
• 7:58
  And then everyone was 100% confident that I wasn't.
• 8:01
  And this had me scratching my head, right?
• 8:03
  Because I was like, am I being gaslit?
• 8:06
  Like I totally remember this. Like I my chat, like everyone
• 8:10
  saying it was basically impossible to have a 99 back in
• 8:13
  2000 and like 3 and or not not impossible, but you know, like
• 8:18
  barely anyone. It was ridiculous back then,
• 8:21
  yeah. Right.
• 8:22
  It was ridiculous. And I was like, I, I told them I
• 8:25
  was like, I played a lot, but I wasn't like my account wasn't
• 8:28
  impressive. I, I remembered, you know, like
• 8:31
  I, I had a membership briefly before I quit.
• 8:34
  I had like an abyssal whip of dragon legs.
• 8:36
  Like I didn't have anything crazy.
• 8:39
  I had like an ABI shield and an ABI cloak and those things were
• 8:42
  cool to me. Which now it's like, not cool at
• 8:44
  all, right? Those things will forever be
• 8:46
  cool. I don't care what anyone says, I
• 8:48
  love those items. Bro to my 12 year old self,
• 8:51
  those were sweet you know? Better.
• 8:55
  Yeah, yeah. So anyway, I was just telling
• 8:56
  the story and everyone's like, no way.
• 8:58
  And I, you know, I, I slept on it and woke up and I'm like, you
• 9:01
  know what? I, I am pretty darn sure I was
• 9:05
  99. Yeah.
• 9:06
  And then I was like, you know what, on stream I was like, you
• 9:09
  know what guys, I am going to reach out to a Jag X moderator
• 9:13
  and have them Fact Check it. I'm going to prove to all of you
• 9:16
  guys that I'm right here and that I was 99.
• 9:19
  Like I was so certain, right. And then I reach out to AJ Mod,
• 9:27
  whose name is escaping me right now.
• 9:28
  I should know this. Aiza.
• 9:30
  Aiza. Yeah.
• 9:32
  Aiza shout out to Aiza J mod And I was like all right, look, I
• 9:37
  I'm pretty certain I could you look up my old account and by
• 9:40
  the way, I already tried to look up on the public leaderboards on
• 9:43
  Runescape 3, but it didn't come up because the account was too
• 9:47
  old or something I don't know Anyway, I have him reach out and
• 9:51
  he finds the account. And I was like, Oh my gosh, you
• 9:55
  found? It and he, he links me my wood
• 10:01
  cutting and I was level 70 and it was heartbreaking.
• 10:08
  I mean it was I mean humiliating and heartbreaking
• 10:11
  simultaneously. I mean, bro, it was, it was
• 10:15
  rough because I, I totally was convinced and my whole chat was
• 10:18
  laughing because they knew they knew I was in 99, but I thought
• 10:21
  I was and it was heartbreaking. And and then some people, you
• 10:25
  know, might be like, well, maybe that wasn't your account or
• 10:27
  whatever. It totally was because all the
• 10:30
  rest of the stats were exactly what I remembered.
• 10:32
  Like my attack was 70. Actually I could look, but like
• 10:37
  every like all the other stats were like exactly what I
• 10:40
  remember them being. My attack was 71, which like
• 10:44
  adds up with the abyssal whip. I believe My defense and
• 10:50
  strength were 65 and 64 like that.
• 10:53
  Everything was about what I remember.
• 10:54
  My herb lore was 1, so that adds up.
• 10:58
  My farming and Slayer were one like all these things, like a
• 11:01
  lot of things I just didn't do at all.
• 11:03
  And I was like, yeah, like everything added up and I was, I
• 11:07
  had 25 quests completed on my account, 25 quests, 892 total
• 11:14
  skill level. And it's pretty much exactly
• 11:16
  what I remember besides the wood cutting, so it was rough.
• 11:20
  Anyway, that's the story. To be fair, 70 wood cutting back
• 11:23
  then is is nuts like that, that not many people had that back
• 11:28
  then like that. That's crazy.
• 11:30
  That's cool. That's.
• 11:32
  Like 99, I'll tell you that much.
• 11:34
  I bet, yeah, sometimes it still feels like getting 99 and
• 11:37
  getting a 70 right now in 2025. But that's awesome that you're
• 11:42
  able to find that account. It's so cool.
• 11:46
  So then you you had switched over to to Wow and you know,
• 11:48
  you've been, you know, you said you took a, a break here and
• 11:52
  there, but it's kind of just been like your, your home base,
• 11:55
  just like the heart of your gaming experience ever since.
• 11:58
  So how would you describe your play style as a wow player?
• 12:04
  Like, you know, there's, there's PvP years, there's
• 12:06
  completionists, you know, there's people like kind of
• 12:09
  approach Sirius versus casually. How would you describe yourself
• 12:13
  as a player? Yeah, so I've evolved over the
• 12:16
  years. So, you know, this is this is
• 12:19
  funny, right? A lot of people historically
• 12:23
  know me as a PVPR. That's what I did for the
• 12:26
  majority of my Wow career, right?
• 12:27
  I've been playing. I've been streaming for 13 years
• 12:31
  as of yesterday, actually. Wow just hit 13 years.
• 12:34
  It's crazy. Yeah, Yeah, just started in
• 12:37
  2012. And most of I'd say like like 9
• 12:43
  of that or so it was like heavily PvP focused 8 or 9 of
• 12:47
  that. So I kind of just swapped to
• 12:49
  more PV E many years ago, you know, 3-4, five years ago, I
• 12:53
  started doing a lot more PV E stuff, hardcore only thing
• 12:57
  stuff. And my content like just just
• 13:00
  transparently did way better. And for me, it's like really
• 13:04
  enjoyable to be able to do because I can relax and talk to
• 13:07
  the chat and make better content and come up with better ideas
• 13:10
  for the stream and get people excited about it.
• 13:12
  And I get excited about it and I kind of like looked historically
• 13:16
  and my best content always was Pve.
• 13:18
  And I was like, you know, why am I like forcing this PvP so much?
• 13:22
  You know, transparently I do love PvP.
• 13:24
  That's where I started. That's where I got my name.
• 13:26
  That's where a lot of my OG, you know, followers know me from.
• 13:31
  And I did a poll yesterday and I said, where do you know me from?
• 13:33
  And Wow Pve or PvP? And about 60% said Pve and 40%
• 13:41
  said PvP, which is amazing. Yeah.
• 13:43
  It's a mind boggling thing for me to wrap my head around
• 13:46
  because I always think of myself as APV peer, but I haven't done
• 13:50
  too much serious PvP in many years now.
• 13:53
  And you know, a lot of the audience is newer and yeah, so I
• 13:57
  guess that answers that. I, I have been a lot more
• 14:00
  focused on hardcore the last three or four years because I
• 14:05
  mean similar to Runescape. I would say if you're, if you've
• 14:09
  already done Runescape, you know, you have a Max main.
• 14:12
  How do you have fun, right? You, you make an Iron Man, you
• 14:14
  make a hardcore Iron Man, you try to clear everything on
• 14:17
  hardcore Iron Man. You try to, I mean, if you're
• 14:20
  settled, then you do swamp politics or something, right?
• 14:23
  Like you do zone lock stuff and, and that's kind of the same in
• 14:27
  Wow, right? Like I've found when I've done
• 14:30
  everything in a while, it's like, OK, let's try to do it
• 14:33
  self found, which is like Iron Man.
• 14:34
  And then it's like, OK, let's try to do it hardcore self
• 14:37
  found, right. So it's the same thing where you
• 14:39
  make challenges for yourself after you've done the the basic
• 14:42
  version. And I think that's kind of what
• 14:43
  I'm into now. Nice, nice, good stuff.
• 14:47
  It's, it's, it's always interesting seeing, you know,
• 14:50
  'cause I, I'm sure you've heard of frame over here in, in old
• 14:54
  school and just his evolution as a content creator slash player.
• 14:59
  He, he, he used to just be a bad guy.
• 15:03
  He was a, he was like a lure. Like it wasn't just PvP.
• 15:06
  It was tricking people that didn't want to PvP into being in
• 15:09
  PvP areas and taking their stuff.
• 15:11
  And then now he's just then he switched into like a quest guy
• 15:14
  for a while. He was like doing all the quests
• 15:17
  and telling people how to do them.
• 15:18
  And then he, he turned into just a, a regular PvP guy just doing
• 15:23
  it like, you know how it is and doing all these challenges on
• 15:26
  normal accounts. So it's just, it's always
• 15:28
  interesting seeing where content creators start and what they
• 15:32
  experience, like where they go through, you know, what you
• 15:35
  know, experiencing different sides of the game and, and
• 15:37
  approaching it differently for the sake of content and seeing
• 15:40
  like what you enjoy most and stuff.
• 15:42
  Because it, it does seem like the PvP area in Wow has been a
• 15:47
  little shaky for a while because I've heard so many stories of
• 15:50
  people doing, I don't know if it's, is it called arenas or
• 15:53
  something like that in retail where it's like, Yep, you got
• 15:56
  to, you have to queue for like an hour or something like to get
• 15:59
  in just try to find matches and stuff.
• 16:02
  You know, it's, it's actually quite similar to Runescape, not
• 16:05
  not the arena system itself, but the community interest, right?
• 16:09
  Like when I was playing Runescape, it's, it becomes
• 16:12
  quite obvious quite quickly that a smaller percentage of the
• 16:15
  player base engages in regular PvP.
• 16:18
  And most people play for, you know, for a variety of other
• 16:22
  reasons, collection, skilling, you know, just a place to call
• 16:25
  home, chilling, talking, community, role-playing,
• 16:28
  whatever. But, you know, there's a smaller
• 16:31
  portion that PVPS. And I would say Wow has always
• 16:34
  been around that similar kind of the similar lines where it's
• 16:38
  like the there is a player base, the PVPS, and it's very fun and,
• 16:43
  you know, I'll always love it. But, you know, it is, you know,
• 16:46
  a subset of a subset of players. So.
• 16:48
  Yeah. Definitely.
• 16:50
  So right now there's there's quite a bit going on in the the
• 16:55
  World of Warcraft landscape with, you know, they've got the
• 16:58
  anniversary servers, they've got the original classic, they've
• 17:01
  got Mop classic, they've got Legion remix, they've got
• 17:06
  retail. Like there's just there's a lot
• 17:07
  over there going on. And I know recently you've kind
• 17:12
  of been going back over there like you, you know, to your home
• 17:16
  base essentially. So having experienced a time in
• 17:21
  in old school and kind of like seeing the community over here,
• 17:24
  seeing what's going on and then glancing back over at World of
• 17:27
  Warcraft. What is your just general
• 17:31
  feelings on where Wow is at collectively right now with all
• 17:35
  versions like considered here? What what are your thoughts on
• 17:40
  just the actual Wow landscape? I mean, this is this is been
• 17:46
  heavy on my mind. It's a it's a really great
• 17:48
  question, right? The like when I, when I first
• 17:53
  started playing Runescape a few months ago.
• 17:55
  So playing again, what made me realize is there is so much to
• 18:01
  learn here, right as a case study, because Runescape is a
• 18:05
  game that launched old school. Correct me if I'm wrong.
• 18:08
  It was 2013, 2014, 2013. So that you, you launch old
• 18:12
  school in 2013 and now we're in 2025.
• 18:15
  So we have 12 years of of, of a perfect MMO case study on
• 18:19
  launching a, a classic version of the game.
• 18:21
  What works, what doesn't, what are what are ways to be
• 18:24
  successful? What are ways that are maybe,
• 18:27
  you know, ways to not be so successful?
• 18:29
  And Wow launched classic in in 2019 and now it's 2025.
• 18:34
  So we're six years on that down that road.
• 18:37
  So essentially we have a lot of a lot of extra like time to look
• 18:45
  at like Runescape and be like, wait, these guys are further
• 18:47
  along in the timeline than we are by a lot, by double, right?
• 18:52
  They are 12, like literally double the amount of experience
• 18:56
  with this kind of thing and with Runescape.
• 18:58
  Looking at the data, it was pretty clear what happened.
• 19:01
  You launch Old School Runescape, people played, it was fun, but
• 19:05
  there was no new content and people rapidly quit.
• 19:08
  And then slowly over the course of many years, more content was
• 19:13
  being developed and it started to catch some steam.
• 19:16
  But then as more and more and more great content was
• 19:19
  developed, it caught a lot of steam and more and more and
• 19:22
  more. And now you're in a spot with
• 19:24
  old school 12 years later where the game is actually the best
• 19:28
  it's ever been by a lot of people's standards.
• 19:30
  You know, obviously some people might disagree there, but you
• 19:33
  know, it's, it's, it's getting better and better and better.
• 19:36
  And that's exactly what you want a game to look like.
• 19:38
  You have it launched. It's, you know, it's OK.
• 19:42
  But then you it gets better and better over time.
• 19:44
  It's aging like wine. And that's that I think is one
• 19:48
  of the biggest things we could learn on the Wow side of things.
• 19:51
  Wow does things opposite. Wow does things seasonally.
• 19:54
  Like, OK, let's do like a seasonal massive drop, kind of
• 19:58
  like grid Master right now. But that's like the main, that's
• 20:02
  not just a side thing for a while.
• 20:03
  That's like everything. Let's drop a seasonal exciting
• 20:06
  surfer. Everyone plays.
• 20:08
  It's massive, like half a million weekly Raiders on Sod
• 20:12
  when it came out. A season of discovery, like
• 20:14
  these things are huge, but then they just kind of die out in a
• 20:17
  few months and then it's like, right.
• 20:20
  And I think a lot of us Classic players went over to Runescape
• 20:24
  and we're like, wait a minute, guys, look.
• 20:27
  This. Is perfect.
• 20:28
  This is what we want. Like this is what we want for a
• 20:30
  while. Like you have a forever game,
• 20:33
  you have a classic Runescape, but it's constantly being
• 20:36
  updated and worked on. This is the framework that we've
• 20:39
  all been wanting. This is perfect.
• 20:41
  And I think that's probably the biggest thing.
• 20:44
  All right, And to wrap back around to your question, like
• 20:46
  what do I think about Wow in accordance to that?
• 20:50
  We have too many versions, I think, right with with
• 20:52
  Runescape, you have RS3, which is modern and you have old
• 20:55
  school, which is classic. And that's it's simple as a
• 20:57
  player, you hop in, do I want modern or classic?
• 21:00
  Boom, done. One choice.
• 21:02
  And once you're online, you have a lot of choices.
• 21:04
  You know, you can play Iron Man group, Iron Man hardcore.
• 21:07
  You have plug insurance this and that, but like really to
• 21:10
  download the client, you have one option with wow.
• 21:14
  I get people all the time, man, that are like, should I play
• 21:17
  Mop? Should I play Sod?
• 21:19
  Should I play anniversary? Should I play era?
• 21:22
  Should I play retail? Should I play remix?
• 21:24
  It's too complicated. Yeah, I think.
• 21:26
  I think a system with Wow that would work long term is to copy
• 21:32
  Runescape, right? You have modern Wow and then you
• 21:35
  have classic Wow and the classic Wow would be constantly updated
• 21:40
  based on community guidelines, community polls, community, you
• 21:43
  know, like a community ran servers essentially.
• 21:46
  And then you add, it gets better, right?
• 21:49
  It gets sweeter over time. You get new content over the
• 21:52
  course of many, many, many years, so that 10 years from now
• 21:55
  we're playing a classic Wow that's better than today.
• 21:57
  And that's my hope. I hope.
• 21:59
  I hope Wow dev is watching this. That's my hope for the game.
• 22:03
  Like 10 years. Yeah.
• 22:05
  Yeah, I I hope 10 years from now we're playing Wow.
• 22:08
  And it's like, you know, just where Runescape is today, where
• 22:11
  it's like our favorite game as a kid, but even better.
• 22:14
  And it's just, it's being taken care of properly, right?
• 22:17
  And I yeah, maybe, maybe I'm on copium, but.
• 22:21
  I don't think so. I mean it's, it's pretty
• 22:23
  understandable to to want that and I think it's, it's very
• 22:26
  achievable. There is like 400 things that
• 22:30
  would be a worth talking about when it comes to classic plus,
• 22:34
  but it, it's something that everyone wants.
• 22:37
  It's something that everyone would try.
• 22:39
  You know, it's, it's classic plus.
• 22:40
  It's like the they've already got a brand going for it and
• 22:44
  it's not, it doesn't even exist yet.
• 22:45
  It's it's huge. And that comes with like all
• 22:49
  these expectations. There's, there's a ton of
• 22:51
  expectations and I feel like as someone who's not in the World
• 22:57
  of Warcraft universe, I haven't heard enough of those
• 23:01
  expectations. I feel like everyone wants this
• 23:04
  thing everyone's talking about. We need classic plus, but there
• 23:08
  hasn't been enough, I don't know, a bullet points, a list of
• 23:11
  things that people would like to see.
• 23:13
  And obviously with the, the discussion of Old School
• 23:16
  Runescape and a lot of Wow guys coming over and trying it,
• 23:20
  seeing it, seeing like a thriving classic version of an
• 23:23
  MMO, you know, it's, it's like, yes, we, this is possible, we
• 23:27
  can do it. But there's that issue that
• 23:30
  always comes up of like, you know, vertical versus horizontal
• 23:34
  progression structure of old school versus structure of Wow
• 23:38
  classic. So I guess it's somewhat like, I
• 23:41
  don't have that much experience playing World of Warcraft.
• 23:44
  So I'm just really curious what you, as someone who's
• 23:47
  experienced every version of the game for two decades, what you
• 23:52
  kind of expect from some kind of Wow classic, Plus like what what
• 23:57
  you envision, what you hope it to be?
• 23:59
  Yeah, that is, I mean, that is the question.
• 24:01
  Yeah, that's the question. I'll answer it in just one
• 24:05
  second. I linked you a tweet, OK.
• 24:07
  That links to poll results. So I did a stream 2 days ago
• 24:13
  where I basically polled my community over 84 questions
• 24:20
  about what classic Plus should entail and I put an approval
• 24:24
  rating on the right side. color-coded in green is 70% or
• 24:28
  higher. I just made-up the 70% that was
• 24:31
  all from me. And then yeah no, in yellow is
• 24:36
  kind of like that mid range and then red was things that people
• 24:39
  didn't want. So we have a bunch of different
• 24:41
  classic plus potential features, and I just wanted to talk to
• 24:44
  people and see what they wanted. So my biggest thing here is
• 24:49
  everyone wants different stuff. And really the only way to move
• 24:53
  forward in my mind is how Runescape did it, right?
• 24:57
  And yeah, I think it's brilliant.
• 24:58
  You, you put up polls 70% or higher, right?
• 25:02
  And just 70% is a large number because it respects precedent,
• 25:05
  it respects history, it respects this is how we got here.
• 25:08
  Let's not do something that's even 5050 and put that through
• 25:11
  because it's just too controversial, right?
• 25:14
  I like that a lot. And yeah, I think I think that's
• 25:19
  that's the way to move forward, right?
• 25:20
  Because if you have, if you entrust any one person to do it,
• 25:24
  it's not gonna be right. It has to be a cumulative pull
• 25:26
  from the community. It has to be community driven.
• 25:30
  Having said that, it doesn't mean the community is perfect.
• 25:32
  It might mean the community makes mistakes at some points
• 25:35
  and can then vote something back out.
• 25:37
  Or, you know, the majority sometimes is wrong and like,
• 25:40
  it's like they didn't understand what that really entailed.
• 25:43
  But it still leaves the power in the people's hands to where if
• 25:47
  something actually ends up sucking, you can then vote it
• 25:50
  back out. It's not a perfect system, but
• 25:52
  it's a system I would like to see.
• 25:54
  But yeah, to get back to the question, I think the very, very
• 25:59
  basic idea of Classic Plus is you have Classic Wow with some
• 26:06
  minor class changes in balancing.
• 26:09
  Because there's some things in Classic that just are bad,
• 26:13
  right? Like there needs to be some
• 26:15
  minor changes in balancing, nothing over the top.
• 26:19
  And then you add in new content like new raids, new dungeons.
• 26:22
  And just like Runescape did not just end game content, but mid
• 26:26
  game content as well, right? So you would you get people
• 26:29
  excited to re level and experience the the game and the
• 26:33
  zones. And then as you develop things
• 26:36
  over the course of time, you do that in a horizontal fashion so
• 26:40
  that it doesn't fully replace everything that you work so hard
• 26:43
  to get for to in the first place.
• 26:45
  And these are the types of lessons that I'm talking about
• 26:48
  when I said, like, you know, when after playing a Runescape,
• 26:51
  it's like, wow, there's a lot here.
• 26:53
  There's so much here to learn from if you want to make a
• 26:55
  really good classic. Plus we have the perfect case
• 26:57
  study already because it's it's Runescape is just set up like
• 27:02
  it's systems are set up in such a good way.
• 27:05
  Yeah, Yeah, that's that's actually a good, I mean, there's
• 27:08
  many good points that you just brought up.
• 27:10
  The, the one that was sticking out was the end game content.
• 27:13
  I feel like every discussion with classic plus is about, you
• 27:19
  know, what do we do different once you hit level 60 sort of
• 27:21
  thing. And I think that's very true is,
• 27:24
  you know, the beauty of classic in my eyes, when I experienced
• 27:28
  it was the levelling journey. So I think a lot of players,
• 27:33
  once they get to that Max level, they're going to have that
• 27:35
  feeling like, well, I beat the game.
• 27:37
  I that's as high as I can get. So the interest in all of the,
• 27:41
  the gameplay loop of like, you know, farming your, your Bis or
• 27:45
  your pre bis in dungeons at at level 60, it's like there's only
• 27:49
  so much interest that's there. So I think the actual focus
• 27:53
  would definitely be on the levelling journey and how you
• 27:56
  can make it different and how you can integrate, you know,
• 27:58
  different systems that no one's experienced before.
• 28:01
  So that's actually I I had not really seen much focus on that
• 28:05
  part. So that's that's awesome that,
• 28:07
  you know, that was brought up in this table.
• 28:11
  Basically. Do you know what the sample size
• 28:13
  was like? How many people were like, yeah,
• 28:15
  how many people participated in that?
• 28:17
  So I had five or 6000 live viewers.
• 28:20
  I would say most of the polls had anywhere from a couple 100
• 28:25
  to 1000 votes because, you know, most people that watch are
• 28:28
  lurking. Yeah.
• 28:29
  Yeah. But you know, so the sample size
• 28:31
  is relatively small. And I like I said here in the
• 28:34
  tweet that I understand my community isn't the entire
• 28:38
  classic player base, right? No structure in my imagination.
• 28:41
  Do I think these numbers are 100% accurate by any means?
• 28:45
  And I'm not claiming them to be. I wanted to be very like
• 28:47
  transparent about that, right? Like I don't think Blizzard
• 28:51
  should just take this list and do it by any means.
• 28:53
  I just wanted to kind of start the conversation and get some
• 28:55
  ideas rolling and see like, oh, do you guys even agree with this
• 28:58
  list or not? And kind of just get the ball
• 29:00
  rolling. But yeah, it's pretty, pretty
• 29:03
  small sample size. But man, I agree with you, dude.
• 29:05
  Like the, the, the beauty of classic to me of classic wow has
• 29:09
  always been that leveling journey.
• 29:11
  And you're meeting people along the way, you know, the hardships
• 29:15
  and, and like making it into this just journey.
• 29:17
  And when you hit 60, I mean, the data is clear.
• 29:20
  Most people end up quitting, right, Right.
• 29:23
  So it's like you got to make that leveling experience
• 29:26
  exciting and fun and different in as many ways as possible
• 29:30
  through levelling achievements, new ways to level like Iron Man
• 29:34
  does or, or hardcore does and all these different things.
• 29:38
  And I, I think that's what makes it beautiful in the long term
• 29:40
  for US players that continue to play in the long term.
• 29:44
  Definitely, yeah. That's that's awesome that you
• 29:46
  were able to put something like that together.
• 29:47
  That's really cool looking at even if you know, even if it's
• 29:50
  only a couple 100 to 1000 people, it's still nice seeing
• 29:54
  an actual visual of what players are, you know, considering and
• 29:58
  different things that like different ideas that can be
• 30:01
  agreed upon. It's it's really cool.
• 30:03
  I I this is the first I've seen of that for classic plus, like
• 30:06
  ever. I've not seen.
• 30:07
  I wanted this. That's why I wanted to do it
• 30:10
  because I, I didn't either. I was like, why has this not
• 30:14
  like no one's done this? And I thought about it a few
• 30:16
  weeks ago. So I wrote it down as a content
• 30:18
  idea. And I was like, you know what?
• 30:19
  Screw it, we're going to put down a date.
• 30:20
  Everyone watch and TuneIn, let's just vote on some stuff and just
• 30:24
  kind of like get some ideas out there from what would actually
• 30:27
  be cool. No one's done it.
• 30:29
  So you know what's really. Funny is, is you have actually
• 30:33
  unknowingly influenced my content forever when I make a
• 30:37
  video essay because you brought up something.
• 30:39
  So it was so long ago, I don't even remember.
• 30:42
  I think it was my like original wow video where I tried all of
• 30:45
  them for the first time. And you had brought something up
• 30:48
  because like I, I was like talking about something in
• 30:52
  retail that I didn't like or whatever.
• 30:54
  And I remember you had paused it and you just brought up the, the
• 30:58
  concept of like, OK, we can complain about it, you know, but
• 31:01
  how do we fix it? That's the problem.
• 31:03
  And ever since I heard you say that, I I try my absolute best
• 31:08
  to not criticize anything unless I have some sort of ballpark
• 31:12
  solution to talk about afterwards.
• 31:14
  So I feel like this is a perfect example of that mentality of
• 31:18
  like, here's actual suggestions, You know, we're not just saying
• 31:22
  I want classic plus. I I don't like this about this.
• 31:25
  It's like, here's these things that are actual tangible things
• 31:29
  that you could put into the game that are a part of the
• 31:32
  discussion now. So this definitely adds up with
• 31:34
  what you've talked about before. It definitely makes sense.
• 31:37
  That's I really appreciate it. I appreciate you bringing that
• 31:40
  up, man. I, I don't remember where I
• 31:42
  first heard that. It was many years ago, but yeah,
• 31:46
  someone, I think it was some elder in my life that said, you
• 31:49
  know, it's easy to complain and it's harder to come up with
• 31:52
  solutions. And I had talked about that to
• 31:54
  my community all the time because, you know, I, I, I know
• 31:59
  a lot of the, the devs that work on Wow and, you know, I've had
• 32:02
  the pleasure to meet them and they're real people.
• 32:04
  They're human beings. They're Wow players have been
• 32:06
  playing for 20 years and they're trying.
• 32:08
  And, you know, a lot of the times they come up short, like,
• 32:11
  you know, but sometimes they do some great stuff too.
• 32:13
  And what I, what I like to remind people is like, look, a
• 32:16
  lot of these things do suck. You're right.
• 32:18
  But like, if you're just sitting there saying they suck without
• 32:20
  trying to say like, this is maybe a better solution.
• 32:24
  What do you guys think about this?
• 32:25
  Right? That's a lot harder to do.
• 32:28
  It really starts and then I've sat there and I'm like, you know
• 32:31
  what? I couldn't do the job of a Wow
• 32:34
  dev. No way could I do it right.
• 32:36
  I have ideas, but it is a hard job because at the end of the
• 32:41
  day, people are gonna complain no matter what you do.
• 32:43
  And that's what kind of I wanted to kind of put this pull out
• 32:47
  there and to see like, well, what does the community think?
• 32:48
  Like if you know, because we can't all agree on everything,
• 32:51
  but like, maybe there's some stuff that 90 plus percent of
• 32:54
  people would like to see. And maybe that's where we start.
• 32:56
  And then five years later or not five years, you know, a couple
• 32:59
  months down the road, let's let's do another round of
• 33:02
  changes. And that's kind of the approach
• 33:03
  I believe Runescape took, right? You, you start with the basics.
• 33:07
  And then from there, it's like, let's go a little further and
• 33:09
  like pull the community and see what they think.
• 33:10
  And then let's go a little further.
• 33:11
  Let's do a little more, let's do a little more.
• 33:13
  And like each step along the way, let's talk to the
• 33:15
  community. And I, I just thought that was
• 33:17
  brilliant from, from Runescape. So I was like, I hope we can get
• 33:22
  it one day in a while. We'll see.
• 33:23
  Definitely, Yeah, yeah, I think there a lot of people that watch
• 33:28
  my videos think that I'm against polling because I think I've
• 33:30
  made some snarky comments in the past about like just ridiculous
• 33:34
  things that the Jag X moderators pull like the colour of a carpet
• 33:38
  or something like that. Like they, they, they've pulled
• 33:40
  some ridiculous things because they don't want to do something
• 33:43
  without the community's permission.
• 33:45
  And they've gotten good. They've gotten so much better
• 33:48
  about that because I would still be making fun of them if they
• 33:50
  did that stuff. But I guess like old school is
• 33:53
  just the perfect example of, you know, if you're running an MMO
• 33:58
  and you wanted to find success and you want to future proof it,
• 34:02
  you have to pull things. You have to ask the community
• 34:05
  and just get a survey out there. Because it just goes to show how
• 34:10
  many mistakes have made, not just in World of Warcraft, but I
• 34:13
  mean, in Runescape 3, in Final Fantasy, there's been countless,
• 34:18
  like in all Mmos, there's been countless updates that players
• 34:21
  are like scratching their heads. Like, who thought of that?
• 34:23
  Why would you put that in? Whereas in old school, there
• 34:26
  really hasn't been anything like that before because there's that
• 34:29
  system in place to make sure that never happens.
• 34:32
  And even any tweaks they make, like, you know, we were talking
• 34:35
  a little bit about just what makes classic Wow, Classic Wow.
• 34:39
  Like you don't want to venture off the path of making it not
• 34:43
  feel like classic wow anymore. But old school itself, like
• 34:47
  prior to you guys all jumping over here to try it, they made
• 34:50
  some very, very core changes to the way that combat works and
• 34:54
  the the way that weaknesses work.
• 34:56
  And like things that we never thought would be touched, but
• 34:59
  ended up being a great change that, you know, it definitely
• 35:02
  wasn't in the original old school that that definitely
• 35:06
  changed the way that combat works everywhere.
• 35:08
  And things like that are super important to kind of pull to the
• 35:12
  community. Because I feel like even though
• 35:14
  it was a good update, if they just kind of inserted that out
• 35:17
  of nowhere, it would have been really controversial.
• 35:20
  Like people would not have been happy even if they did benefit
• 35:22
  from it because it's just there's something like the
• 35:25
  principle of it is just very weird to just change something
• 35:29
  that big, but it it like. What what what I like about
• 35:35
  Sorry to cut you off. You were on like a really good
• 35:39
  like conversation. What I like about it is it it
• 35:41
  gets the blame off the devs and it gets the blame back to the
• 35:46
  community, back to yourself. So it's kind of like looking in
• 35:49
  the mirror, right? If something goes through that
• 35:51
  ends up sucking, it's like, well, we voted for this, right?
• 35:55
  And we have the power to get it back out.
• 35:56
  Whereas if you aren't pulling and aren't voting and they put
• 36:00
  it and the devs put something in that you don't like, now it's
• 36:03
  really easy to complain and say, devs, you guys suck.
• 36:07
  This isn't what we wanted. And it just creates this like
• 36:09
  toxic relationship. Whereas if, if the community
• 36:12
  votes it in and it sucks, then it's like it's on you, which is
• 36:17
  good because then it's like self responsibility.
• 36:19
  We could then, you know, it's like we did this, we did this
• 36:23
  exactly. So I, I love it.
• 36:25
  I think it's cool. Cool.
• 36:27
  Yeah. So, I mean, I, I really do hope
• 36:29
  that there is something cooking behind the scenes for a classic
• 36:33
  plus, because I think it will, I mean, everyone's going to try
• 36:37
  it. Everybody is going to try a
• 36:38
  classic plus if it comes out. So hopefully they are going to
• 36:41
  start taking a more serious position on it.
• 36:44
  And, you know, whenever they do consider asking the players
• 36:49
  maybe perhaps what they want, I don't know, crazy idea.
• 36:53
  But yeah. But I guess to, to transition
• 36:58
  from there, you know, because I mean, the, the Wow stuff's
• 37:01
  chaotic, but I want to ask a little bit about your experience
• 37:06
  with Old School Runescape and just kind of go through some of
• 37:09
  those because it, it really was awesome to see all the, the Wow
• 37:15
  creators kind of glance in Old School's direction for one
• 37:18
  reason or another. And you had, I guess you, you
• 37:23
  kind of already touched on this, but I, I've just been asking
• 37:26
  everyone like what their initial reason for trying old school
• 37:29
  was. Was there anything like, because
• 37:32
  obviously you, you had been thinking about it for a while.
• 37:34
  It's been in the back of your mind, like I'm going to try
• 37:36
  Runescape on stream. But was there anything that kind
• 37:38
  of gave you that push? Like maybe you noticed, you
• 37:42
  know, some of the guys have been playing for a while.
• 37:46
  So you're like, all right, it's time to kind of go over there
• 37:48
  with this movement or like, what was that?
• 37:51
  What? What gave you that final push to
• 37:52
  really create a new account and stream it?
• 37:55
  I would say Ghuzu and Savix. And I have to give them both
• 37:59
  credit for getting me into hardcore World of Warcraft as
• 38:01
  well. So I watched, I just got a bunch
• 38:04
  of YouTube recommendations of Ghuzu.
• 38:07
  And Ghuzu was playing hardcore many years ago and I like maybe
• 38:12
  four years ago. And I saw him like 3 years ago
• 38:14
  and I was like, oh wow, that looks fun.
• 38:17
  And then Savix, who's been a friend of mine for a while, you
• 38:21
  know, I watched his YouTube videos too and they came up and
• 38:24
  I was like, Oh my gosh, Guzu and Savix, these guys are at it
• 38:28
  again on Runescape, the boys and almost like, OK.
• 38:32
  And then I mean, I'm I'm good friends with Sardako.
• 38:34
  We we have done a lot of Wow content together, which this
• 38:40
  could maybe be a whole nother topic, but it, you know, in a,
• 38:45
  in a weird way, I mean, I miss, I miss a lot of my friends, you
• 38:48
  know, and that's, that's a whole nother conversation.
• 38:50
  Yeah, you know, it's yeah, we can get to that in a bit.
• 38:53
  But I anyway, I saw all my friends playing and I'm just
• 38:56
  like, I've wanted to, they're all playing.
• 39:00
  Oh, OK. You know, and and I think to, to
• 39:03
  piggyback, just what gave me confidence to play variety games
• 39:08
  in general. Is was, was only things, not
• 39:12
  necessarily only things two, but only things one was a big deal
• 39:15
  for me because it was like, oh, all of these creators have the
• 39:19
  courage to come and play Wow and this is our home.
• 39:22
  And, you know, only things 1 ended.
• 39:25
  And then when only things 1 ended, I was like, OK, let's,
• 39:27
  let's check out some other games.
• 39:29
  Let's check out where these creators are from, right?
• 39:31
  And then seeing like you come from Runescape and, and you
• 39:35
  know, and only things two and then only things 2 ended.
• 39:38
  And I was like, you know, like I should be checking out other.
• 39:41
  This is the time to check out other games, right?
• 39:43
  And I played a variety of games, not just Runescape.
• 39:46
  I played league for a few months and that was like a blast.
• 39:49
  And I played Runescape for a month or two and that was a
• 39:52
  blast. And it was like, I, I, you know,
• 39:54
  I feel like I almost owe it, right?
• 39:56
  Pay it forward like everyone else has had the courage to come
• 39:59
  to Wow. I wanted to check out, you know,
• 40:01
  other games too and see the, the beauty in those games.
• 40:04
  So I guess all of those things kind of came together and I was
• 40:06
  like, and you know, like I said, I always wanted to play since I
• 40:08
  played as a kid. I was like, let's do it.
• 40:10
  Let's let's hop into Runescape. Yeah, I totally forgot that
• 40:13
  there was like this during that initial jump, there was like a
• 40:17
  split almost where half of the wild guys were going to League
• 40:21
  and half the wild guys were going to old school.
• 40:23
  And I was so curious of which game was going to outlast the
• 40:26
  other. Like of, of, you know, who's
• 40:27
  trying the the new game, if they're going to stay over
• 40:30
  there, if they're, you know, people are going to like SWIP,
• 40:32
  like, you know, swap games, like the old school guys are going to
• 40:35
  try League next. So it was it was really fun
• 40:38
  seeing the, you know, old school beat league in that sense of
• 40:42
  people going to try it. I'm glad that league didn't win.
• 40:45
  I think old school had the had the the won the battle of
• 40:49
  attrition there. So it's I'm glad that so many
• 40:52
  people did give it a shot. Did you have any like, because I
• 40:56
  know you played it as a kid, but did you have any expectations of
• 41:00
  how playing old school would go for, you know, during your first
• 41:05
  couple days knowing what you did?
• 41:07
  Oh, dude, it was completely different than I remember.
• 41:11
  Yeah. So I got in the old school
• 41:14
  because I wanted a like again. I got in the old school again
• 41:18
  like a few months ago because I wanted a game to just chill and
• 41:21
  like level my wood cutting and talk to Chad like level my you
• 41:27
  know like level my attack kind of half AFK and talk to chat
• 41:33
  like I was like I'm good with that.
• 41:35
  I am game with literally just chopping a tree AFK.
• 41:39
  That's cool. I like it.
• 41:42
  I'm in sign me up right like that.
• 41:44
  I was cool with it. And then when I started playing
• 41:48
  old school again, I was like, whoa, I mean, it was, it was
• 41:54
  different. There was 2 reasons it was
• 41:56
  different. One, when I originally played, I
• 41:58
  only did 25 quests. I was 12 years old and I was a
• 42:01
  complete noob, right? Like I didn't experience
• 42:04
  anything but two, we're also not playing the game how it was in
• 42:07
  2003. We're playing how it is in 2025,
• 42:10
  right? So there was just way more to
• 42:13
  do. Like I couldn't believe fairy
• 42:17
  rings, I couldn't believe spirit trees, like the amount of
• 42:19
  mobility, I could not believe the complexity of the combat.
• 42:25
  So this is one of the things that surprises, surprised, I
• 42:28
  think all of us Wow players. I think when you look at
• 42:31
  Runescape right from the outside as an outsider, you look at the
• 42:34
  combat and you're like, wow, that's boring, right?
• 42:37
  You, you are literally AFK slashing.
• 42:39
  But it couldn't be further from the truth once you get to
• 42:43
  actually playing the game to some to some degree, and I'm not
• 42:47
  going to make the claim I did anything very impressive, but
• 42:50
  like even just some mid game stuff, right, Moons, barrows,
• 42:56
  fire Cape, like that kind of stuff.
• 42:58
  It was like, oh, like, I mean it's all, you know, relatively
• 43:01
  easy, but still, it really is way more than just clicking
• 43:05
  right. It's way more than just AFK.
• 43:07
  It's like you're clicking the move, you're clicking the gear
• 43:10
  swap, you're clicking for your prey.
• 43:11
  I mean, I don't need to tell you, you know this, but for the
• 43:13
  listeners that maybe only play Wow, you're clicking for special
• 43:18
  specs, right? And then you're swapping
• 43:20
  weapons, then then doing it again and like constantly
• 43:23
  moving, rotating, prayer swapping.
• 43:24
  It's it becomes a rhythm game and it be it's very, it takes a
• 43:29
  lot of mouse dexterity to be able to pull that off and click
• 43:31
  accurately without messing up and getting one shot.
• 43:35
  So I guess one of the biggest surprises was, whoa, the combat
• 43:42
  is actually really fun, really, really engaging and like
• 43:49
  surprisingly difficult. And that was a hard thing, I
• 43:52
  think for a lot of us Wow players to admit that like, oh,
• 43:55
  the Runescape combat is actually, you know, pretty
• 43:58
  difficult, you know, and I never got to any of the end game
• 44:00
  stuff. But the stuff I've seen on
• 44:03
  YouTube, right? Once you get to like the actual
• 44:05
  end game and like you get closer to that infernal Cape and stuff,
• 44:08
  it's like, OK, yeah, like you, you really can't mess up a lot
• 44:12
  of clicks here. And you've got to be, you've got
• 44:13
  to know exactly what's coming and be ready for it and do it
• 44:16
  perfectly. And then, I mean, don't even get
• 44:19
  me started, but I did a couple 100 rounds of LMS and got
• 44:24
  training by ODA Block and that's a whole nother level, right?
• 44:27
  Yeah. Oh my gosh.
• 44:29
  And I, I, I told you my roots were PvP.
• 44:32
  So I mean, I absolutely loved LMSI loved, you know, the kind
• 44:38
  of the whole style you're it's a, it's a three-way rock paper
• 44:41
  scissor or it's a two way rock, paper scissors, right?
• 44:44
  You're constantly trying to defend and attack and what a
• 44:46
  what a fun game mode I thought it was.
• 44:48
  It was fantastic. So I liked the PUPA lot, I liked
• 44:52
  the the PVMA lot. And to my surprise, the thing
• 44:55
  that I actually like, didn't find myself doing was like
• 44:59
  skilling and cutting trees. And that's what I initially was,
• 45:02
  was signing myself up for. So it was the exact opposite of
• 45:05
  what I expected. Yeah, I feel like that AFK
• 45:08
  aspect of the game is, is, you know, anyone who has somewhat
• 45:13
  knowledge of old school, that's kind of what they're thinking
• 45:16
  about. If they're not thinking about
• 45:17
  the bad graphics, they're thinking about chopping a tree.
• 45:19
  Like that's what, that's just the impression the game gives
• 45:23
  off, which is understandable. But yeah, I've talked about it a
• 45:27
  lot in video essays of just how we used to approach old school
• 45:31
  like a playground and now we approach it like a cubicle in an
• 45:36
  office of, you know, we're going to work, you know, we're we're
• 45:39
  going into grind. We're going in to figure out the
• 45:42
  the in game systems. You know, we're going to
• 45:44
  memorize 100 beats per minute point.
• 45:46
  Every .6 seconds is a tick. We're going to see how we could
• 45:49
  use our items to manipulate that.
• 45:51
  We're going to use it to, you know, our advantage when we're
• 45:54
  attacking the the monsters and you know, all this stuff.
• 45:58
  It's it's a whole different universe that people might
• 46:01
  remember from when they were going on a miniclip.com to find
• 46:05
  Runescape back in 2005. It's like it's so cool, like
• 46:08
  where our adult brains have kind of taken the game that you would
• 46:12
  have just never, ever expected. Even the people that made the
• 46:16
  game in the Gower brothers back in the day, like they would have
• 46:19
  never seen this coming. It's it's crazy where it's at
• 46:21
  now. It's I think I I was talking
• 46:25
  about it with someone else of just how, you know, we, we made
• 46:29
  something beautiful out of an ugly thing like it.
• 46:32
  It's the system of Runescape. This like 100 beats per minute
• 46:36
  tick system is just, it's a weird thing like it's such a
• 46:40
  turn off for people, but the players themselves have looked
• 46:43
  at it and created something amazing out of it just to, you
• 46:47
  know, a whole different play style, a whole different
• 46:49
  approach. So it it's way different than
• 46:52
  anyone would expect them until you try it and you kind of make
• 46:55
  some progress and see it. So I'm glad you got to see it.
• 46:57
  I'm glad you got to see that side of the game because you
• 47:01
  know there is more to the the whole Runescape system than
• 47:05
  chopping trees and looking outdated so.
• 47:08
  It's cool. Yeah dude, the graphics are it's
• 47:13
  a good point of conversation. The graphics are such a turn off
• 47:17
  if you haven't played the game right, you see the game and it's
• 47:20
  like, okay, what is this X out of here?
• 47:23
  Whatever. And I get that I can respect it,
• 47:26
  but and once you start playing the game is it's not something
• 47:30
  you ever you ever like look down upon like, Oh, these graphics
• 47:34
  suck. And not only that, I would go so
• 47:36
  far as to say it's something that starts to grow on you of
• 47:38
  like, Oh, not only that, but I actually don't want them
• 47:41
  changed. Like these are actually iconic.
• 47:44
  This is an iconic graphic style, an art art style rather, and
• 47:48
  this is perfect. Like it doesn't actually need to
• 47:50
  change like this is this is how it this is just how it is.
• 47:54
  And my, my example that I like to use is like when you look at
• 47:57
  a game like Minecraft, you don't go, man, these graphics are bad.
• 48:02
  It's just like they're supposed to be.
• 48:04
  That's the whole thing. It's fine.
• 48:07
  And I think similar to Runescape, it's supposed to be
• 48:13
  this iconic feel. And I've made the claim in Wow,
• 48:16
  because Wow, our retail has updated graphics for 20 years,
• 48:21
  you know, consistently over and over and over.
• 48:23
  And to me, and, and I don't want to hate on the, the modern art
• 48:26
  developers because I think the art is beautiful in its own way,
• 48:29
  right? But to me, it just doesn't feel
• 48:31
  like Warcraft anymore. I think it lost the, the art
• 48:34
  style, the IP of like I'm playing Warcraft, World of
• 48:38
  Warcraft. This is what it's supposed to
• 48:39
  feel and look like. Yeah.
• 48:41
  And I, I think retail actually lost that slowly over time.
• 48:44
  And when you play classic Wow, it still has it like, it feels
• 48:47
  like you're playing Wow. And it's like, cool.
• 48:48
  Like I, I want to feel like I'm playing Wow.
• 48:50
  This is the, the, the, the universe I grew up playing in.
• 48:54
  And I would actually like warn against like the, the classic
• 48:57
  developers to, to do too many graphic updates.
• 49:00
  Like it feels, feels good that way.
• 49:02
  And then the, the ticks, the tick system when you first start
• 49:05
  playing feels janky. It feels like, man, why can't we
• 49:09
  just have this fluid like this doesn't feel good.
• 49:11
  But the more you play, especially I think in PvP, the
• 49:16
  tick system really is what makes the game beautiful because you
• 49:19
  have that .6 seconds to make the gear swap.
• 49:23
  And if you don't time it right, then you have to wait till the
• 49:25
  next .6 seconds, which can get you killed, right?
• 49:29
  And it's like you have to time these things offensively and
• 49:32
  defensively. And that that's kind of what the
• 49:33
  whole game hinges on. And I think without that tick
• 49:36
  system, it loses some of its beauty.
• 49:39
  And so these and like you said, it was almost a happy accident.
• 49:43
  Like I don't think the developers originally were like,
• 49:45
  oh, let's make this the ticks .6 seconds to give players 1/2 a
• 49:49
  second to think about their next move.
• 49:51
  It's almost like a turn based game, but happening rapidly like
• 49:54
  a rapid, rapid turn based game is what it is really.
• 49:58
  And I don't, I don't think they did that on purpose.
• 50:00
  There must have been like 2002 coding, janky coding and now
• 50:06
  it's just a happy accident. It's it's, it's a cool thing.
• 50:09
  Yeah, I, I saw a yeah, I, I did some research on the, the whole
• 50:16
  like tick system of, you know, trying to figure out when
• 50:18
  players found out that it was running on 100 BPM.
• 50:22
  And the game developer Andrew Gower, he didn't even like say
• 50:27
  he didn't even confirm that the game was running on you know
• 50:31
  every .6 seconds until like 2008, which the old school
• 50:36
  servers are based on an August 2007 backup.
• 50:40
  So all the way through that no one even knew like on this
• 50:43
  system that it was 100 beats per minute or anything.
• 50:46
  So it's it's super cool like seeing just what kind of
• 50:52
  gameplay was that came from that knowledge.
• 50:56
  Like over the years, 'cause even after people found out, they
• 50:59
  didn't even mean much to people until we had old school and had
• 51:03
  rune light and plug insurance to help.
• 51:05
  And you know, it opened up just this whole, you know, realm of
• 51:10
  possibility for, for playing the game.
• 51:13
  But I, I totally, I, I know exactly what you mean for the,
• 51:15
  the art style too, for, for retail.
• 51:18
  In my recent video I actually just shamelessly insulted the
• 51:24
  RS3 character models since I said you need to update these
• 51:28
  now because they've, you know, they've talked even themselves
• 51:32
  about updating the player models because they just don't look
• 51:35
  great. So it's something interesting
• 51:39
  about art is when you try to create hyper realistic art.
• 51:44
  So mimicking real life, it tends to age rather quickly.
• 51:48
  And when it's digital art, right, like it tends to just go
• 51:51
  out of style very quickly. And like you see this with games
• 51:55
  that we're trying to mimic reality from like 10 years ago,
• 51:58
  like a battlefield from like 10 or 15 years ago.
• 52:00
  So you look at and say, oh, this is already completely out of
• 52:03
  date. But you see a game like that's,
• 52:06
  it's on its own complete trajectory.
• 52:09
  It's not trying to mimic real life like a game like a
• 52:11
  Runescape or a game like Wow where there are 20 years later,
• 52:14
  the art style was just as good as it was because it's, it's not
• 52:18
  trying to be hyper realistic. It's it's its own style and it
• 52:22
  ages really well. Like that's the key, right?
• 52:24
  It right, like in 100 years from now, it's still gonna have that
• 52:28
  same iconic feel because it's not trying to be this 100%
• 52:32
  realistic thing. Whereas I, I believe, like if
• 52:36
  you're trying to make retail into like looking like real
• 52:39
  people, that is just going to age really poorly, right?
• 52:43
  20 years from now, it's just going to look crappy, like
• 52:45
  you're, you know. It's definitely, yeah.
• 52:47
  Yeah. So that's that's kind of where
• 52:49
  my head's at with it. Yeah, I'm glad, I'm glad.
• 52:52
  You know, MMO's like classic Wow and and old school have, you
• 52:55
  know, a very distinct identity to their their character models
• 52:59
  and just the the assets in the game.
• 53:01
  It's it's, I mean, you could take an asset out of either
• 53:05
  game, throw him on a, on a blank white canvas and people will be
• 53:09
  able to identify what game it's from just because, you know, it
• 53:12
  has its identity. So yeah.
• 53:14
  And I. Think the way to I think the way
• 53:16
  to do it. If you do want to make it a
• 53:18
  little crispier, a little nicer is the way you know, there's the
• 53:23
  HD setting, GPU setting rather GPU in room light, the GPU
• 53:30
  setting. I in my, you know, sense of the
• 53:34
  of the style. It keep it retains the style.
• 53:36
  It just it looks maybe a bit sharper.
• 53:38
  I think that's fine. It's like it's the same art
• 53:41
  style, maybe a bit sharper to me.
• 53:43
  That doesn't bother me. And so in in classic plus, what
• 53:46
  I wouldn't mind, and this is one of the things we voted on is
• 53:49
  like in HD toggle an option. You can have it on or off, the
• 53:55
  player decides and you could have the graphics maybe a bit
• 53:59
  sharper, but it would still be the same style of art.
• 54:02
  That's not updating the models. It's not making them smoother
• 54:06
  and move different and the animations and this and that.
• 54:09
  It's literally just, you know, if you want to update, if you
• 54:12
  want to make it a little more HD, right?
• 54:13
  Like that's different to me. Now that you've mentioned that,
• 54:16
  I think when I, because I, I played through Wrath classic and
• 54:20
  then when Kata classic like it turned into Kata classic, there
• 54:25
  was there was an update, like an optional update for like HD
• 54:29
  graphics. That was a ton of storage space
• 54:32
  that you needed. But I was like, I want to see
• 54:34
  what this is. I had no idea it was going to
• 54:37
  make the game look as different as it did.
• 54:39
  Like it felt like retail suddenly because of what they
• 54:42
  did. I don't know what exactly they
• 54:44
  did, but I turned it off and I was like, OK, there's the game I
• 54:47
  remember like it was that different.
• 54:50
  So it's very weird. It's a, it's a kind of a blurred
• 54:53
  line of you know what, what to change, what to not like what
• 54:56
  kind of process they should do, but you know.
• 54:59
  That's why I think that toggle is is huge.
• 55:01
  It has to be an option. Like even with the GPU setting
• 55:04
  and room light, you could turn it on or off, the player can
• 55:08
  choose. But like forwarding everyone's
• 55:10
  graphics is something they never asked for.
• 55:12
  That would be a red flag I think.
• 55:14
  Definitely. So there's been this, this big
• 55:17
  kind of expression statement that's been thrown around like
• 55:20
  crazy of progression matters in old School Runescape.
• 55:26
  It's kind of like this, this justification for wild players
• 55:30
  coming over to try old school. You know, I, I don't know if
• 55:34
  it's just a bunch of old school players shouting it or what, but
• 55:36
  everyone's basically saying progression matters over here.
• 55:39
  That's why they're here. Progression matters.
• 55:42
  Is that something that you can kind of confirm or, you know,
• 55:47
  back up does does the progression feel like it does
• 55:51
  matter here more than in any version of World of Warcraft?
• 55:57
  Absolutely. Yeah.
• 55:59
  So that that was it's a no brainer, right?
• 56:01
  Like it's it's one of the reasons a lot of us Wow players
• 56:04
  like were like, oh crap, let's try this.
• 56:06
  I guess I failed to mention that during the question earlier.
• 56:09
  Like why did I want to try? So.
• 56:12
  So yeah, so the way Wow does it is on the next big, like the way
• 56:17
  retail does it on the next big patch basically.
• 56:20
  Like there's a new raid and the the new raid has all the new
• 56:23
  best gear and you want to go to the new raid to get the new best
• 56:26
  gear. And it might sound like fine and
• 56:28
  dandy, but the problem is it wipes out everything else that
• 56:31
  you've done. So the long term collectibles
• 56:34
  and Wow are things like mounts, pets and titles.
• 56:40
  And you know, that's, that's basically just how Wow does it
• 56:42
  in terms of gear. You're replacing the gear every
• 56:45
  time there's a new tier. And there's no like real
• 56:49
  skilling in a Wow, right? Like you have professions, but
• 56:51
  you could Max it in a day. It's it's way different.
• 56:54
  It's more just like an economy thing.
• 56:56
  So, so yeah, like in old school, the the whole idea of I'm going
• 57:02
  to do these quests and in five years from now, like it's still
• 57:06
  like fundamentally there and it boosted my account permanently.
• 57:10
  And like I'm going to get this item and this item is
• 57:13
  permanently going to help me like once I get these.
• 57:17
  OK, here, here's an example, right.
• 57:19
  Fairy rings are awesome because they help you navigate the
• 57:24
  world. OK, so the way it would maybe
• 57:26
  work in Wow is you unlock fairy rings and it's like, cool, nice,
• 57:29
  I have them. Then the next Wow expansion
• 57:32
  would come out and it would be in a new world, a new what, what
• 57:37
  should I say? Like a like a, a whole different
• 57:39
  dimension. So you can't use fairy rings
• 57:42
  anymore because they don't exist in the new world.
• 57:44
  Now you have to unlock new fairy rings or a different system
• 57:46
  similar to fairy rings, say like a spirit tree.
• 57:49
  So it would be almost like if Jag X was like, OK, we're going
• 57:53
  to release like a whole new area where everyone's going to go.
• 57:59
  What, what's the new area? They released somewhat recently
• 58:01
  the newest 1 Marla Moore. It would be like if Varla Moore
• 58:04
  didn't have fairy rings. It would be as if you couldn't
• 58:08
  use them. And not only that, it would be
• 58:11
  like if Varlamore had all of the best gear, all of the best
• 58:15
  quests, and they were so good that for a new player you'd want
• 58:19
  to go straight to Varlamore. It would be like if a new player
• 58:22
  from level 1 needed to basically go straight to Varlamore, ignore
• 58:27
  now fairy rings because they don't work anymore, ignore all
• 58:30
  of this stuff. And then all the old players
• 58:32
  that took a break, we're like, wait, what happened to my game?
• 58:34
  All this stuff that I unlocked no longer matters, right?
• 58:37
  So that's the big complaint that all the Wow players are like,
• 58:40
  this sucks to be undercut. Every time there's a big new
• 58:44
  patch, everything we work for gets gets rug pulled.
• 58:47
  And I can see the frustration now I I do want to say there's
• 58:51
  pros and cons to each system. I don't want to say that one is
• 58:55
  completely better than the other.
• 58:56
  Although I must admit I like Runescape system better.
• 59:00
  Be transparent. I will argue on behalf of Wow
• 59:03
  just for a second. Or the way modern Wow does it,
• 59:06
  rather like retail is it is nice when you take a break for six
• 59:12
  months, all your friends are playing the new content and you
• 59:15
  can hop back in and play with your friends basically right
• 59:18
  away. You can like just get back in
• 59:20
  and be like, all right, guys, we're all going to be in this
• 59:22
  new zone. It's a soft reset kinda.
• 59:24
  We're all going to be back together.
• 59:26
  We're going to hit the new raid together.
• 59:27
  We're going to do the new dungeons and we can just all, we
• 59:29
  all haven't played in years. We're all just going to hop in
• 59:32
  and like do the new content together and we're going to get
• 59:34
  geared up and we're we're playing together.
• 59:37
  And, and just to compare that real quick to Runescape, I was,
• 59:41
  you know, about a month after all my friends in Runescape and
• 59:45
  all my friends were hitting like moons and barrows and I'm like,
• 59:48
  oh, that looks fun. Or like they were hitting what?
• 59:51
  What's the twin bosses? The red and blue?
• 59:56
  Oh yeah, like the fire giant or the giant bosses, whatever
• 59:59
  they're called. But it's such a it's, it's like
• 1:00:01
  a mid game thing that I haven't. I've even done myself yet, so I
• 1:00:04
  I've seen everyone else do it, but I haven't done it.
• 1:00:06
  Yeah. So there's a bunch of stuff that
• 1:00:08
  all my friends were doing in Runescape, but I couldn't get
• 1:00:11
  there. Like I couldn't just skip to it.
• 1:00:12
  I had to earn my weight. Like you have to get strong
• 1:00:14
  enough, right? I'm playing Iron Man.
• 1:00:16
  I can't skip to that. I'm not strong enough, right?
• 1:00:18
  So I need the grind. So one of the things in
• 1:00:20
  Runescape that like, you know, one of the things is like I
• 1:00:24
  couldn't play with my friends because they were just ahead of
• 1:00:27
  me period. And to get I mean, I couldn't do
• 1:00:30
  the content I wanted with my friends.
• 1:00:31
  Technically we could we could play together, right?
• 1:00:33
  We could role play in the city. We could go, you know, Peking
• 1:00:37
  and well, we're playing hardcore a lot of us.
• 1:00:39
  So we had limited options. But you know what I'm trying to
• 1:00:42
  say? Like you couldn't you couldn't
• 1:00:44
  just skip to the to the new content with your friends.
• 1:00:47
  So that was like the real con. But having said that, it's a
• 1:00:50
  good trade off, right? Like having your progression
• 1:00:52
  matter forever is awesome and classic does it you you could
• 1:00:59
  argue classic is actually a little more horizontal than than
• 1:01:04
  you might think. And this might be a novel idea
• 1:01:10
  to to Runescape people kind of listening in.
• 1:01:13
  But in classic Wow you have 6 phases.
• 1:01:17
  You have molten core, BWLCG and AQ and Max and you do have real
• 1:01:26
  reasons to continue raiding the old raids.
• 1:01:28
  So molten core is that first raid, Jimmy, you, you did it
• 1:01:31
  with us and it has items that you want even in the end game,
• 1:01:36
  like it has Thunder fury. Like tanks want that like no
• 1:01:39
  matter what, like a row would want that, like no matter,
• 1:01:41
  right. And you have things in BWL that
• 1:01:45
  a mage wants, like the mind quickening gem, like no matter
• 1:01:48
  what. So you you generally, most of
• 1:01:50
  the time will continue to raid a lot of these raids all the way
• 1:01:54
  through and go back to the old content no matter what.
• 1:01:57
  And when you're leveling, like you still have reasons to get
• 1:02:01
  those items from the good quest. You don't want to just skip
• 1:02:04
  them. So like you, you can make a real
• 1:02:06
  argument. Classic Wow is all like is
• 1:02:09
  pretty horizontal, not as horizontal as Runescape, but
• 1:02:12
  then retail in my mind is like pretty much completely vertical,
• 1:02:17
  right. New expansion all the time wipes
• 1:02:19
  everything you do. So I would say like retails as
• 1:02:22
  vertical as it gets. Classic Wow is is kind of in
• 1:02:25
  between and then runescapes like almost like as horizontal as it
• 1:02:28
  gets. And yeah, I I really like that
• 1:02:31
  horizontal model. I I really enjoy like doing
• 1:02:34
  something once then now my account has that kind of
• 1:02:37
  forever. Yeah, definitely.
• 1:02:38
  And it's also it's it's I guess it's very telling seeing that,
• 1:02:44
  you know, all everyone who's experiencing the game for the
• 1:02:46
  first time, you know, we've we've had many, many years,
• 1:02:51
  hundreds of updates put into the game, both mid game, end game,
• 1:02:54
  everything and every single wild player trying the game has made
• 1:03:00
  made a pit stop at multiple 2005 updates like fire Cape barrows,
• 1:03:09
  you know, 2006 fairy rings. Like you said, those were all
• 1:03:14
  systems that were put into the game 20 years ago that are still
• 1:03:18
  necessary pit stops on everyone's journey.
• 1:03:21
  So it's that's right. It does just kind of show, you
• 1:03:24
  know, the, the structure of how everything was, was thought
• 1:03:28
  about. You know, it's nothing is not
• 1:03:31
  unnecessary, nothing is irrelevant.
• 1:03:32
  I mean, there are some things like old mini games that serve
• 1:03:35
  literally no purpose anymore. But you know, that's a whole
• 1:03:40
  different thing. But there's not too much of
• 1:03:42
  that. So yeah, it is really cool kind
• 1:03:45
  of seeing that presence of progression being it's a, it's a
• 1:03:52
  good system. I, I, I'm, I'm glad that it's
• 1:03:55
  highlighted it because it was one of those things I never
• 1:03:57
  really thought about before having that comparison to Wow
• 1:04:00
  that, you know, it was kind of brought up by the Wow guys.
• 1:04:04
  I think the idea is in classic plus we want all the content
• 1:04:09
  like you just mentioned in a Runescape to still be somewhat
• 1:04:12
  relevant. Like in classic plus, if we have
• 1:04:15
  a new raid that just makes all the other ones are relevant,
• 1:04:17
  that's terrible. That's terrible.
• 1:04:21
  Like in classic plus, you should still hit 60 and want to get in
• 1:04:24
  the molten Core, right? And then once you do molten
• 1:04:26
  core, you can move on. But like, if you, you can just
• 1:04:29
  skip to the newest stuff and skip everything else
• 1:04:31
  permanently, that's awful. I think.
• 1:04:34
  I think pretty much everyone who wants Classic Plus is on on a
• 1:04:38
  similar page there. Yeah, we want these things to
• 1:04:40
  still matter. You know, you can have new
• 1:04:42
  content, but you, you still have to do the old content to get
• 1:04:45
  there. And then even when you're in the
• 1:04:47
  new content, you still might have reasons to go back like
• 1:04:50
  Runescape has. What's it called?
• 1:04:52
  Like locking green logging, right?
• 1:04:54
  You're trying to do absolutely everything.
• 1:04:57
  And then you have all of the the achievements, what are they
• 1:05:01
  called? Runescape like the combat?
• 1:05:03
  Yeah, they're combat achievements, yeah.
• 1:05:05
  Yeah. So there's still reasons to go
• 1:05:06
  for all the drops and then all the combat achievements on the
• 1:05:10
  old stuff, and then you still need to do the old stuff to get
• 1:05:13
  to the new stuff. So it's like it all matters.
• 1:05:15
  And that's great. That's great.
• 1:05:17
  I actually have a question about just when it comes to classic
• 1:05:21
  Wow. Are there certain dungeons that,
• 1:05:25
  you know, on the way to level 60 that, you know, maybe a warrior
• 1:05:29
  would really need to make sure that they stop there, do runs of
• 1:05:33
  it until they get gear. But then a mage could completely
• 1:05:36
  skip that dungeon in their journey, like they never need to
• 1:05:39
  visit it because there's nothing for them there.
• 1:05:41
  Is there any dungeons like that for for classes, Yeah.
• 1:05:45
  Tons of them. OK, absolutely.
• 1:05:47
  I think that would probably be a a huge thing to address like for
• 1:05:52
  a classic plus, because if you think about something like
• 1:05:54
  barrows, obviously it's not a Co-op thing in in old school.
• 1:05:58
  But if a dungeon exists that has, you know, a level 35 blue
• 1:06:03
  best in slot for every class, it like creates the reason,
• 1:06:08
  especially in classic where there's not like a dungeon
• 1:06:10
  Finder of people to be going there.
• 1:06:13
  Like no matter what time it is in the in the patch, you know,
• 1:06:17
  however long it's been, it's, it's going to be a pit stop for
• 1:06:20
  the for people. So like, you know, it's going to
• 1:06:23
  be a relevant dungeon no matter who's levelling up sort of
• 1:06:27
  thing. If everybody needs to stop there
• 1:06:29
  for some sort of item unique to their class.
• 1:06:31
  Because I guess the class thing does serve as like an obstacle
• 1:06:34
  when, when considering things like that, because there are
• 1:06:37
  just items that will simply never matter because they can't
• 1:06:41
  matter for your class, which, you know, Runescape doesn't have
• 1:06:44
  to, you know, think about that sort of thing because everyone
• 1:06:47
  is every class on Runescape. So I guess I, I never really
• 1:06:51
  thought about it that way of like, you know, a common goal
• 1:06:56
  for people, you know, through a dungeon.
• 1:06:58
  It's not always there for for Classic Wow.
• 1:07:02
  I think for classic wow like so there's dungeons like Scarlet
• 1:07:06
  Monastery Armory which is pretty much really really good for like
• 1:07:12
  warriors, anything that wears male like super super good gear.
• 1:07:16
  For a mage not so much but the mage.
• 1:07:20
  So the major doesn't need Armory, but there is a quest
• 1:07:22
  that requires you to clear all of Sarla monastery that will
• 1:07:26
  give you a good reward and it still does gives a good
• 1:07:29
  experience. I think classic does like an oh
• 1:07:33
  I'd say it does like a pretty good job but like not as good of
• 1:07:36
  a job as Runescape with it. And like you said, having no
• 1:07:40
  classes really simplifies a lot. I think that's one of the
• 1:07:45
  reasons why Runescape is so successful is because it's
• 1:07:48
  really streamlined with how much content you can push out when
• 1:07:51
  you don't have to deal with what 8 or 9 classes and constantly
• 1:07:55
  adding items for all these classes, balancing all of them,
• 1:07:58
  making sure they all work and like interact properly and like
• 1:08:02
  have enough tanks and healers for all these different
• 1:08:04
  dungeons. And and not only that, but the
• 1:08:06
  solo play of Runescape is so cool because you can just
• 1:08:11
  challenge yourself solo in, you know, and then inferno Cape or
• 1:08:15
  something. And it's like, what a cool
• 1:08:17
  thing. I've always loved solo PVM or
• 1:08:20
  Pve. So like the combination of no
• 1:08:22
  classes and solo play makes the game very playable, right?
• 1:08:25
  Very playable. Yeah, the solo content is is a
• 1:08:28
  huge bonus. I think it's it's something
• 1:08:31
  that, you know, levelling solo on Classic Wow kind of
• 1:08:37
  miserable, to be honest with you as like as a person who doesn't
• 1:08:39
  have much experience playing like classic classic, going
• 1:08:45
  through and and playing solo, just leveling like by by itself,
• 1:08:51
  it, it's not the most fun thing to do.
• 1:08:54
  It is way more enjoyable to go in with other players because
• 1:09:00
  you know, if you have a healer, just suddenly you're time is way
• 1:09:03
  less stressful. Even if you're not getting the
• 1:09:05
  maximum XP. It's like, OK, I'm not worried
• 1:09:07
  about every little poll I do to every little mob.
• 1:09:11
  You know, it's you know, it's an MMO so it's understandable of
• 1:09:15
  why it's like that. But you know, Routescape is it's
• 1:09:18
  like a whole different thing. It's like half the game is
• 1:09:21
  playing as a single player account on an MMO, which is very
• 1:09:25
  cool that you're able to do that, you know, pros and cons to
• 1:09:28
  that. But I think.
• 1:09:31
  I think some, this is a very well known concept to Runescape
• 1:09:36
  listeners. This might be a novel concept to
• 1:09:39
  Wow listeners, right? And I have, I've had this
• 1:09:42
  conversation on stream where people will say, well, why, why
• 1:09:45
  do you want to play an MMO if you're just going to play solo?
• 1:09:48
  And it's a it's a fair question. I think, you know, it's a
• 1:09:50
  totally fair question, but I think the answer is like the the
• 1:09:55
  reason I I bring it up is because people ask all the time
• 1:09:57
  in hardcore solo self found challenges and I it's like I I
• 1:10:02
  enjoy like just playing solo in MMO in an MMO like Wow and you,
• 1:10:06
  you have to think like, oh, I have to go to a vendor and and
• 1:10:09
  buy this instead of like just buying it from the auction house
• 1:10:11
  or whatever. And it makes you think kind of
• 1:10:13
  like an an Iron Man. It makes you think about the
• 1:10:15
  game in a different way. Yeah, I think there's, I think
• 1:10:19
  it's fun because you, you still see other people around you, You
• 1:10:22
  still, you can still be in a Guild, you can still talk to
• 1:10:24
  other people and interact with them and the cities are filled
• 1:10:27
  with people and they're running around.
• 1:10:29
  But then you're kind of like playing a solo RPG, but just
• 1:10:32
  online with other players. I mean, how awesome is that?
• 1:10:35
  Like it's a fun thing. It's a, it's a weird thing to
• 1:10:37
  think about, but it's, it actually is pretty, pretty
• 1:10:40
  enjoyable. So yeah, I, I've always been a
• 1:10:43
  big fan of like the solo content, like angle that
• 1:10:47
  Runescape hits and Wow has tried it, but it's definitely not
• 1:10:50
  quite the same, right? But it's definitely really fun.
• 1:10:54
  I like being able to just play the game and do it.
• 1:10:57
  And then if you wanna play with people, you still can hit up
• 1:11:00
  Huey with a group of boys or whatever.
• 1:11:02
  It's like pretty cool. Definitely yeah, I've always
• 1:11:05
  thought about the self found thing and wow, how it would
• 1:11:08
  translate cuz you know, with the whole like profession stuff,
• 1:11:12
  especially because it it plays such an important role no matter
• 1:11:15
  what class you're in, like you, you need more than two
• 1:11:18
  professions if you're doing self found usually like you could get
• 1:11:20
  by, but you know, it's a huge roadblock for most classes.
• 1:11:27
  I would say to, you know, on your way to Max level sort of
• 1:11:30
  thing. And it's also like if you're
• 1:11:33
  playing on a server that's all self found, like if they were to
• 1:11:36
  make like a, a solo self found server, then you're suddenly
• 1:11:39
  fighting for resources way harder than you would normally
• 1:11:42
  be fighting for resources in the system that Wow has, like
• 1:11:45
  running around a route in the early levels to get or would be
• 1:11:50
  a nightmare. Like it'd be terrible.
• 1:11:54
  So I guess it's just, you know, there, there would need to be I,
• 1:11:57
  I think some tweaks if they were to try anything like, you know,
• 1:12:00
  trying to make a more solo based content over there, which I
• 1:12:05
  think they do need to do for a classic plus thing.
• 1:12:08
  I think a lot of players do enjoy that solo content sort of
• 1:12:12
  thing. You don't need to wait for a
• 1:12:13
  group to get online. You don't need to worry about
• 1:12:15
  finding, you know, four other people to go do a dungeon so
• 1:12:20
  that you can have a chance of getting one item that you've
• 1:12:22
  been looking for. It's there's, there's a lot of
• 1:12:25
  pros to be able to do it, But then also on the other side,
• 1:12:29
  there's that sense of community, the sense of, you know, working
• 1:12:32
  together with other players and, and having a friend group and
• 1:12:36
  meeting people. Right.
• 1:12:37
  Yeah. You know.
• 1:12:39
  Just to play devil's advocate and you were, you were about to
• 1:12:42
  argue this or you were is I think one of the things that has
• 1:12:46
  made Wow so successful is, and I should say classic Wow so
• 1:12:50
  successful is that your success hinges on and the necessity of
• 1:12:55
  others. Right, right.
• 1:12:56
  You need that healer in a dungeon or you can't do it.
• 1:13:01
  So now all of a sudden you need a healer.
• 1:13:03
  That healer feels needed. And that's a good feeling for
• 1:13:05
  the healer because it's like, oh man, they this group needs me.
• 1:13:09
  The tank feels that same way. The damage dealers feel the same
• 1:13:12
  way. It's like this, this is, we're
• 1:13:14
  all necessary pieces of the puzzle here.
• 1:13:17
  And I think that is part of the beauty of Wow, to be fair.
• 1:13:20
  And so I've learned a lot from Runescape and and comparing
• 1:13:23
  these games. But one of the things I've also
• 1:13:25
  learned is they aren't the same game.
• 1:13:28
  Like fundamentally, yeah, they're different games.
• 1:13:31
  So there's things that are awesome about Runescape that
• 1:13:34
  shouldn't be in Wow, and there's things that are awesome about
• 1:13:37
  Wow that shouldn't be in a Runescape.
• 1:13:39
  And I think that it was one of the conclusions that came to at
• 1:13:42
  the end of my journey or like closer to the end, it was like
• 1:13:45
  these games can coexist. And you know, there there can be
• 1:13:49
  features that are like really successful in Runescape, but
• 1:13:52
  like shouldn't be in Wow at all, right?
• 1:13:54
  Like they wouldn't make sense going one way or the other.
• 1:13:58
  And that's that's what I was talking about at the start with
• 1:14:01
  like it would be so tricky to be a game dev.
• 1:14:03
  Like, you'd really have to study this stuff.
• 1:14:04
  Like, you really would, right? Like, holy crap.
• 1:14:07
  Like this is a good idea, but it just doesn't work in our game.
• 1:14:09
  Kind of a thing. Yeah, there's.
• 1:14:11
  So many layers. There's so much depths to
• 1:14:13
  everything. It's there's a lot of
• 1:14:15
  consideration for every little, I guess, addition that you would
• 1:14:20
  try to be making or, you know, trying to translate a system
• 1:14:24
  from one game to the other because their structure, like
• 1:14:26
  the skeleton of each game is so incredibly different.
• 1:14:30
  So I mean, it's it's tough. It is tough to be a dev.
• 1:14:33
  I'll tell you what, I'm glad I'm not a dev.
• 1:14:36
  I'm I'm glad we just get to like lightly talk about it just like,
• 1:14:39
  yeah, yeah, that's as far as we'll ever, you know, obviously
• 1:14:42
  we could make efforts to like you did like the, you know, the
• 1:14:46
  polling things and all the ideas putting out there.
• 1:14:48
  But, you know, we'll never be having our job on the line
• 1:14:51
  because we need to make a decision of like what to put in
• 1:14:54
  the game, making a a working system.
• 1:14:56
  It has to be one of the stressful things ever.
• 1:14:59
  Hey man, I respect the people that do it right.
• 1:15:01
  Like I really do. It's like it's like being a
• 1:15:03
  dungeon master in DND or something like like creating
• 1:15:06
  these rule sets or it's like being a, an author of a, of a,
• 1:15:10
  of a giant novel that you're creating this world and there's
• 1:15:15
  so many interconnected pieces. It's a hard thing to do.
• 1:15:18
  And like I said, I don't think I could do it.
• 1:15:20
  I think there's not enough respect out there from us gamers
• 1:15:24
  to the devs when they have such a hard job.
• 1:15:27
  I think it's really easy to criticize me.
• 1:15:28
  Like they, they, they messed up here.
• 1:15:30
  But it's like, man, they're, they're creating like a world
• 1:15:33
  for all of us to live in and play in.
• 1:15:35
  And like, yeah, they come up short.
• 1:15:36
  It's, it's just, it's a hard job to to really do it's.
• 1:15:39
  Brutal, absolutely brutal. Speaking of I, I know you just
• 1:15:44
  mentioned that, you know, like end of your journey.
• 1:15:47
  Are you still playing old school at all?
• 1:15:49
  Like right now? Right now, pretty much no.
• 1:15:54
  So I think end of my journey has a bit of finality to it that I
• 1:15:59
  guess I don't want. I think there is a real, real
• 1:16:04
  potential. I play more in the future and
• 1:16:06
  one of the things, well, there's a couple things that I like 1 is
• 1:16:11
  all of the stuff I have done on my account, the progression
• 1:16:13
  matters, right? Like we just talked about it.
• 1:16:16
  It's not like like if I come back to the game in two years or
• 1:16:19
  five years or whatever, like whatever I have up to this
• 1:16:22
  point, like will permanently matter.
• 1:16:25
  And that's awesome. I, it's almost like Runescape's
• 1:16:28
  a game designed for people to be able to take breaks, quit for
• 1:16:33
  six months, come back and pick up right where they left off.
• 1:16:36
  And that's cool, right? So I guess that's the first
• 1:16:39
  thing. And the second thing is like,
• 1:16:40
  there's so many different ways to experience it in an awful
• 1:16:43
  way. Like hardcore really interested
• 1:16:46
  me, although from what I hear in Runescape, like you're kind of
• 1:16:51
  die when you get to mid game or like like for sure you'll die in
• 1:16:55
  end game, but even like the end of mid game, you're gonna die
• 1:16:57
  right once you start doing some of the the the quests right, an
• 1:17:01
  end game quest, I gotta say, like dragon Slayer 2 and stuff,
• 1:17:03
  it's like you're kind of die if you go in blind like like.
• 1:17:06
  Anyway, everything going in blind, yeah, you're you're done.
• 1:17:09
  If you're going in blind on a hardcore, you're done.
• 1:17:12
  Yeah, you're just gonna get, you're just gonna get one shot.
• 1:17:13
  You don't even know the mechanic, right?
• 1:17:15
  So yeah, any. Anyway, I think there are like
• 1:17:19
  novel ways to experience it too. To bounce off the, you know,
• 1:17:22
  knowing that your your progress is mattering and everything on
• 1:17:26
  the opposite side of things. And and also as a kind of a
• 1:17:32
  excuse to come back at some point to try it.
• 1:17:35
  You know, there's like grid master that just came out and
• 1:17:38
  this is the first year they haven't done like an official
• 1:17:40
  league. But do you see yourself
• 1:17:42
  returning to try like a day or two of old school leagues at
• 1:17:46
  some point if they do another one?
• 1:17:49
  Potentially. So here's my take on leagues and
• 1:17:52
  my whole chat disagreed with me on this when I talked about it
• 1:17:55
  when I was playing Runescape. So I would like to hear your
• 1:17:58
  take, but for me as a player, and, and this is just my mindset
• 1:18:03
  of my take, but for me as a player in Runescape, when I
• 1:18:05
  don't have a main yet, when I haven't accomplished the the
• 1:18:09
  real deal yet, when I haven't done what I want to do on a
• 1:18:13
  main, it I have a hard time justifying putting time into a
• 1:18:17
  league, even though I know the leagues are fun in themselves.
• 1:18:21
  And it's, you know, it's a nice break and whatever.
• 1:18:23
  When, when I don't have a main, I just feel like super
• 1:18:26
  unmotivated to be like, well, let me just like put the main
• 1:18:29
  aside and play the league when I like, when I, when I want to do
• 1:18:33
  so much more on the main account first.
• 1:18:35
  Right, right. I can totally see from long
• 1:18:38
  standing Runescape players that have the main, they've done a
• 1:18:42
  lot, but they're, you know, maybe they're a little burnt out
• 1:18:44
  or maybe they, you know, have done a lot of what they wanted
• 1:18:46
  to do. And it's like, OK, let me let me
• 1:18:48
  play the league for a while. Yeah, get some unlockables on my
• 1:18:51
  main and then get back to the grind.
• 1:18:53
  Like I totally understand why they're successful, but I felt
• 1:18:55
  like as a newer player I like didn't want to stop the grind
• 1:18:59
  right? Like.
• 1:18:59
  I didn't want to. No, I totally get that.
• 1:19:01
  I totally get that. There is.
• 1:19:03
  It's funny because when it comes to this topic, there is so many
• 1:19:07
  perspectives and so many different types of players that
• 1:19:10
  have the same mindset or complete opposite.
• 1:19:12
  And I actually in Gridmaster, like I was playing it very
• 1:19:15
  casually myself, still AM. And I, you know, when I'm doing
• 1:19:19
  like AFK stuff and there's someone else in game with me, I
• 1:19:22
  ask him, you know, you know, how are you liking it?
• 1:19:25
  Do you, you know, are you playing a different count on the
• 1:19:28
  main game sort of thing? Just because I'm curious and
• 1:19:31
  there's been a few players so far that have said, no, I'm not
• 1:19:34
  playing the main game. I only play seasonal like I
• 1:19:38
  don't I I never even made in a main account.
• 1:19:41
  I only play seasonal like leagues and gridmasters stuff.
• 1:19:43
  So there's that whole side like that whole community that only
• 1:19:48
  plays these like dopamine inducing skyrocket XP versions
• 1:19:52
  of the game because they're like I have a fucking job in kid man,
• 1:19:55
  Like I don't want to do main account stuff like this is my
• 1:19:59
  chance to play runescape and experience the game in its
• 1:20:02
  entirety. You know, multiplied XP.
• 1:20:04
  You know cool perks to. Make sure I can kill the bosses
• 1:20:07
  I would have had to grind 100 hours to get to in the main
• 1:20:10
  game. So it, it serves a really nice
• 1:20:12
  purpose for a certain genre of player with, you know, under
• 1:20:16
  certain circumstances, but also like Sardako, he, he shares the
• 1:20:20
  exact same mindset that you have where he's like, you know, I
• 1:20:24
  that's XP waste for my main account Like I, I, I'm trying to
• 1:20:27
  get there on the main game right now.
• 1:20:28
  Why would I waste time on a, a temporary game mode when I
• 1:20:32
  haven't even got there yet? And of course, there's also
• 1:20:35
  another aside where it's like, yeah, there are people who are
• 1:20:38
  playing their main accounts, but you know, they might not have
• 1:20:42
  the confidence to, you know, go and try the end game content
• 1:20:46
  unless they're given those perks to kind of introduce themselves
• 1:20:49
  to it. There's just so many different
• 1:20:52
  scenarios that players find themselves in, which I think is
• 1:20:55
  is really cool that it does serve different purposes for
• 1:20:58
  different people. And again, it's optional.
• 1:21:01
  It's just a seasonal game mode. There's not too much FOMO.
• 1:21:04
  There so that's what I that's what I really like right it's an
• 1:21:07
  optional thing it's not like if you like you you get to my
• 1:21:11
  understanding you get cosmetics for the main game right, nothing
• 1:21:15
  required nothing that you absolutely need to do, but it's
• 1:21:19
  a fun side thing that you to unlock cosmetics for your main
• 1:21:22
  like I think that's really done right.
• 1:21:25
  I think there's a lot of ways to do it wrong, making it
• 1:21:28
  absolutely required or like forcing people to do what they
• 1:21:32
  don't want to do and stuff like that, so I appreciate.
• 1:21:35
  That there's the also for most of the leagues that they've done
• 1:21:39
  all of the rewards that you get, because essentially they, what
• 1:21:42
  they do is they give you a certain amount of points
• 1:21:43
  depending on how much you progress in those leagues.
• 1:21:47
  And then there's a shop in the main game where you spend those
• 1:21:49
  points and those items, like the cosmetics, they don't serve any
• 1:21:54
  other purpose other than being cosmetic.
• 1:21:55
  They're actually tradable, so you can sell them.
• 1:22:00
  So it's an incentive for players to try the seasonal game mode.
• 1:22:03
  And if you didn't do it, you weren't around, you weren't
• 1:22:05
  playing yet, you didn't have time.
• 1:22:06
  You can spend your main account money buying it to have that
• 1:22:09
  cosmetic if you want it. So that owns.
• 1:22:13
  I love it. I I've been vocally against
• 1:22:17
  Blizzard doing they've been doing the same thing for a
• 1:22:22
  couple years now where they will have a limited time event, but
• 1:22:28
  then you get something else already in the game.
• 1:22:32
  So I'm trying to think of an example in a Runescape.
• 1:22:34
  It would be maybe not something as coveted as like a fire Cape.
• 1:22:39
  So I'm trying to think maybe like a pet, right?
• 1:22:42
  Like a rare, a rare trot pet from I'm trying to think of like
• 1:22:47
  something that would maybe, maybe makes sense.
• 1:22:49
  Like Rex, like maybe like Rex, Rex drops a pet, right?
• 1:22:53
  Yeah. So say like Rex dropping his pet
• 1:22:56
  and you, you got it. And it was like exciting.
• 1:22:57
  It was like a one in 3000 or something.
• 1:22:59
  And you're like, holy crap, I got this pet.
• 1:23:01
  And then it would be the equivalent of like the league.
• 1:23:06
  If you played the league you would guarantee yourself a Rex
• 1:23:09
  pet. On.
• 1:23:11
  Your main on your main you would get the Rex pet.
• 1:23:15
  What? And I am crazy vocally against
• 1:23:18
  this. And I've been I've made videos,
• 1:23:21
  tweets, talked about it on stream and I get hate on I I get
• 1:23:24
  that threats people. Oh yeah, people love it.
• 1:23:28
  People like that. You can go and guarantee
• 1:23:30
  yourself all the rare stuff from past Wow and get it.
• 1:23:34
  And I'm like, what are you guys talking about?
• 1:23:36
  This undermines all of the players work, all the hours put
• 1:23:40
  in, even if it doesn't matter to you, it undermines like the
• 1:23:44
  whole value system of the game to me, right so.
• 1:23:47
  Are you able to get that reward in the main game still the same
• 1:23:50
  way you've always been able to get it?
• 1:23:53
  Yep. OK, yeah, See, that sucks that
• 1:23:55
  that's a terrible system. I hate that.
• 1:23:57
  What it does is it undermines the idea that you can like, why?
• 1:24:02
  Why would I want to farm anything?
• 1:24:03
  Then I'll just wait for the leagues and get it pretty much
• 1:24:06
  guaranteed in 100 times quicker than trying to farm out the next
• 1:24:09
  thing. I'll just wait for the next
• 1:24:10
  league right. And they they call it remix.
• 1:24:13
  So they did it in Mop remix. They're doing it right now with
• 1:24:15
  Legion Remix. And in Mop Remix, there was rare
• 1:24:19
  drop mounts that were like, I want to say one in 2000 drop
• 1:24:24
  chance. And everyone that played Remix
• 1:24:26
  for a week could guarantee it. Yeah.
• 1:24:28
  And it's like, it was pretty heartbreaking for me, honestly,
• 1:24:31
  as a Wow players, I was pretty vocally against it.
• 1:24:34
  Like I said, a lot of pushback on my opinions, a lot of people,
• 1:24:37
  death threats and this and that. Runescapers all agree with me.
• 1:24:40
  For you guys, it's obvious, yeah.
• 1:24:41
  I feel like it's like a no brainer honestly.
• 1:24:43
  Like when you're describing it that way, it's like, no way we'd
• 1:24:46
  be cool with that. They'd be riots.
• 1:24:48
  They're crazy. Yeah, so I talked about it on on
• 1:24:52
  my Runescape streams and all the runescapers were like, Oh yeah,
• 1:24:55
  yeah, you're right on this. Like for sure.
• 1:24:57
  But I talk about it to like a retail Wow audience and oh man,
• 1:25:01
  everyone disagrees with me. That's.
• 1:25:03
  Crazy man, that's. Yeah, yeah, it is crazy.
• 1:25:07
  Yeah. So anyway, I'm very more towards
• 1:25:12
  like, okay, if you're gonna do a league, you put out a new
• 1:25:15
  cosmetic, a brand new one that's specific to that league that you
• 1:25:20
  take to your main account to show.
• 1:25:21
  Look what I did, this is new. So for me, my criticism to
• 1:25:25
  Blizzard was if you wanna do this, don't use an existing rare
• 1:25:29
  item, use a new rare item. Yeah, And you put that one out
• 1:25:34
  and then it's still fun, it's still exciting, but it doesn't
• 1:25:36
  undermine everyone's work on the old item.
• 1:25:39
  And I don't have to explain that to you or Runescape players.
• 1:25:42
  That's obvious, right? But for some reason, I mean,
• 1:25:44
  like I said, a lot of pushback when I when I've talked about it
• 1:25:47
  on stream to more like a retail audience, so.
• 1:25:51
  That's so interesting. Yeah, there's not.
• 1:25:52
  I don't think there's too many arguments for that, that I
• 1:25:54
  would, that I would, that would change my mind.
• 1:25:56
  I can't imagine there's like a an angle there.
• 1:25:59
  So I don't know. A lot of a lot of content
• 1:26:02
  creators have pushed back and I have openly said on my stream
• 1:26:07
  many, many times, maybe on social media too.
• 1:26:10
  I would love to chat to anyone that disagrees.
• 1:26:14
  Please change my mind. Yeah, I would love you to change
• 1:26:17
  my mind because I don't get it. Like maybe I'm missing
• 1:26:20
  something? That's crazy.
• 1:26:22
  It's nuts. But like I said, hey man, maybe
• 1:26:25
  I'm missing the point. Maybe I'm missing it.
• 1:26:27
  Like maybe I'm the guy that's just confused.
• 1:26:29
  I'm open to having my mind changed if anyone out there can
• 1:26:33
  convince me I'm wrong. I did this little segment on my
• 1:26:36
  stream where I was like just convince me I'm wrong and I read
• 1:26:38
  about 100 messages and none of them convinced me.
• 1:26:41
  Like they were all just I think poor arguments.
• 1:26:44
  But like I said it's still an open invitation.
• 1:26:46
  If anyone out there like can convince me I'm wrong then maybe
• 1:26:49
  I'll change my opinion, but until then I think it's not a
• 1:26:52
  great feature. No, no terrible feature even I'd
• 1:26:54
  say. Yeah, Cool.
• 1:26:57
  Well, I I've had you here for so long, so I'll wrap it up with
• 1:26:59
  one last question. It's it's the most important
• 1:27:02
  question by far. So you know, here, here it
• 1:27:04
  comes. What would you rate Old School
• 1:27:06
  Runescape out of 10? I would say in genre, pretty
• 1:27:11
  much like 10 out of 10. I like maybe a nine, but like,
• 1:27:15
  it's, it's, it's an amazing game.
• 1:27:19
  I was blown away. There was things that, you know,
• 1:27:22
  maybe I liked and didn't like and, you know, whatever.
• 1:27:26
  Like I said, every game is different in its own way.
• 1:27:28
  And that's one of the things that I like about playing other
• 1:27:32
  games. It opens my mind and my horizons
• 1:27:34
  to what could be in like, oh, this game did this really well.
• 1:27:37
  And maybe not this whatever, but in the reason I would say in
• 1:27:43
  genre is because for a historical game to come out and
• 1:27:49
  say we're going to put out an old school or a classic, but
• 1:27:52
  respect our traditions, respect what got us here and only move
• 1:27:56
  forward if a strong majority, not just a majority, but a
• 1:27:59
  strong majority of our community wants it.
• 1:28:02
  I think that is done right. I think there's a lot of respect
• 1:28:05
  there. I really, I really respect that
• 1:28:08
  they respect it and keeping true to those traditions, but still
• 1:28:12
  adding in content and improving a game that's been around for so
• 1:28:16
  long is awesome. So I don't know how else I would
• 1:28:19
  rate it in genre besides a 10 out of 10 or maybe like a high 9
• 1:28:23
  or something like it owns. Yeah, it was.
• 1:28:28
  It was a really, really, really, really fun time.
• 1:28:31
  I I still, you know, Wow is my favorite game of all time.
• 1:28:34
  I'm not going to, you know, deny that I, I do.
• 1:28:37
  I love World of Warcraft. That's your home, man.
• 1:28:40
  That's your home. You.
• 1:28:42
  Know it's yeah, yeah, yeah. But I doubt what I said, like
• 1:28:45
  what I said on stream and you know, people like this or
• 1:28:48
  didn't, but I, I really, I really think Wow is like my
• 1:28:52
  favorite game of all time. But I'd say Runescape does have
• 1:28:57
  better systems. Yeah.
• 1:28:59
  I really do. I really think Runescape has
• 1:29:01
  better systems. So I think if Wow learns from
• 1:29:05
  those systems, it could be even better.
• 1:29:07
  I think Runescape has done a lot of the systems better, right?
• 1:29:10
  The polling system respecting like the horizontal progression
• 1:29:13
  systems make like a ton of sense and like respecting tradition.
• 1:29:16
  In that sense, I I think Runescape has like a better
• 1:29:20
  ecosystem, a better progression system, better systems, and
• 1:29:24
  that's what makes it in this such a darn good game.
• 1:29:27
  And in case study. But yeah, I guess, I guess
• 1:29:31
  that's pretty much that. Yeah, yeah, I hope, you know, a
• 1:29:34
  classic plus comes along because I mean, at the end of the day,
• 1:29:37
  you know, comparing old school to classic vanilla.
• 1:29:41
  I mean, you're just comparing a, a 2005, 2006 backup of original
• 1:29:47
  Wow to an MMO that has had 12 years of actual updates and
• 1:29:52
  fixes and community polls. So it's just two very, very
• 1:29:57
  different things to compare. And hopefully, you know, classic
• 1:30:01
  plus will one day be able to be in the same position of old
• 1:30:04
  school, be like, you know, look what we created, look at, look
• 1:30:07
  at all these things, these systems that we've integrated
• 1:30:09
  that keep that classic wow feel. So we can only hope for the best
• 1:30:14
  with it. I, I really hope we see
• 1:30:16
  something down the road. It'll be.
• 1:30:18
  It'll be awesome. I've made the claim and a lot of
• 1:30:20
  people disagree and kind of piggies back and when you
• 1:30:23
  piggyback someone you just said like so Runescape 3 comes out,
• 1:30:27
  you know, it's still like their cash cow.
• 1:30:30
  From my understanding from Shaggy, it's like they actually
• 1:30:32
  make more money even though less people play from Runescape 3.
• 1:30:34
  But like way more people play old, old school, right?
• 1:30:37
  And it took a while for that to be the case.
• 1:30:40
  And it's like I made the claim that if Blizzard does Classic
• 1:30:44
  plus right in 10 years from now, we could see more people playing
• 1:30:48
  classic plus than retail, right? Because there's just like more
• 1:30:51
  interest there on a, on a, on a massively broad level, right?
• 1:30:55
  On a global level of like how many people have ever played
• 1:30:57
  Wow, you have at least 100 million by like a, you know,
• 1:31:02
  some guesstimate. So it's like if you if you, you
• 1:31:05
  know, get a fraction of those interested in Classic plus, it's
• 1:31:08
  like it's going to be way it could be way bigger than retail.
• 1:31:12
  Now, I think similarly, the Jag XI do think retail could still
• 1:31:17
  be Blizzard's cash cow. Like they might make more money
• 1:31:20
  off of retail expansions and retail store and retail mounds
• 1:31:24
  and pets and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:31:25
  Yeah, just like an RS3. To my understanding it's
• 1:31:28
  similar, but I think the player base, I think in Classic Plus
• 1:31:31
  could actually be like potentially way bigger if it
• 1:31:35
  actually exists in 5 or 10 years from now.
• 1:31:37
  So we'll see. I'm optimistic and excited, and
• 1:31:40
  I think Runescape really opened my eyes in a lot of ways.
• 1:31:43
  So yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, I hope it did.
• 1:31:46
  I hope it opened some eyes up for a lot of creators to voice
• 1:31:50
  their ideas and, and suggestions.
• 1:31:53
  And I, I hope they do see if anything, like if there's one
• 1:31:56
  thing they see from old school, I hope it's the community pulse.
• 1:31:59
  And, you know, seeing seeing the dev interaction and seeing how
• 1:32:02
  successful that can create, you know, a great environment for
• 1:32:06
  new players, veteran players, just kind of solidifying a
• 1:32:11
  healthy MMO player base. So that's the one thing I hope
• 1:32:15
  they see that's and I think the rest that's.
• 1:32:17
  What I said. Bro, that's it man, that's all I
• 1:32:20
  need to see and I think the rest will fall into place if they if
• 1:32:24
  they take that away. But but as are you, it's been an
• 1:32:28
  absolute pleasure, man. This has been it's been great
• 1:32:31
  having you here talking about all this stuff, man.
• 1:32:33
  It's been a long time coming to have some discussions about this
• 1:32:36
  stuff because, you know, through the years, all the back and
• 1:32:39
  forth with, you know, reactions and just, I mean, it's mostly
• 1:32:42
  been me talking and then me listening to what you have to
• 1:32:46
  say about it. And I haven't been able to like
• 1:32:48
  have an actual conversation with you about it.
• 1:32:50
  So this is awesome. This is really cool.
• 1:32:52
  But yeah, thank you so much for for taking so much time out to
• 1:32:55
  to talk with me about it, man. Hey, Jimmy, that was that was
• 1:32:58
  great. Thanks for having me on an
• 1:33:00
  absolute pleasure as well. Man, that was almost an hour or
• 1:33:03
  two or two hours. And I, I swear, I feel like we
• 1:33:07
  could talk about this for at least 10.
• 1:33:09
  We could. We absolutely could.
• 1:33:11
  I've had to like force myself to move on to the next topics
• 1:33:14
  because I'm like, I have so many things I could say about this
• 1:33:17
  and. You know, I just same, bro.
• 1:33:19
  I could yap all day about it. So yeah, awesome.
• 1:33:22
  And likewise, it's been a pleasure.
• 1:33:24
  Thanks again for having me on. Yeah.
• 1:33:25
  Dude, thank you so much. A huge, huge thank you again to
• 1:33:28
  Czar You for taking time out of his weekend to talk with me.
• 1:33:31
  It was probably one of the most enjoyable gaming discussions
• 1:33:34
  I've ever had, so it was a pleasure.
• 1:33:37
  All of his links are down below. Subscribe to his YouTube, follow
• 1:33:40
  his Twitch drop in, say hi to him, let him know you listened
• 1:33:42
  and what you thought go support him in any way you can.
• 1:33:45
  But ladies and gentlemen, this concludes this podcast
• 1:33:48
  miniseries. Never done anything like it.
• 1:33:50
  So I hope you guys enjoyed listening to it.
• 1:33:52
  I didn't really plan on these discussions becoming this, so
• 1:33:56
  you know, this format, this podcast thing, it's just sort of
• 1:34:00
  came to mind once I started talking with everyone and
• 1:34:02
  realizing how fun the conversations are.
• 1:34:05
  So, you know, I, I hope you guys got some enjoyment out of just
• 1:34:08
  listening to these discussions because I, I feel like they're,
• 1:34:12
  they're really fun to have. You know, it's interesting
• 1:34:15
  seeing where these guys come from, how that translates to,
• 1:34:19
  you know, their old school Runescape experience.
• 1:34:22
  Just getting to know these guys a little more because you.
• 1:34:25
  Know they're all great. It's, it's been awesome that
• 1:34:27
  they've all came over to the old school community, even just if
• 1:34:30
  just for a little bit. So I'm super glad that they were
• 1:34:33
  all willing to talk about their experience and just share some
• 1:34:36
  of their thoughts about their home based game.
• 1:34:40
  It was, it was awesome. These interviews were all for
• 1:34:42
  the sake of a singular chapter in an upcoming video essay on my
• 1:34:46
  main channel, which will be up in early November.
• 1:34:48
  Depending on when I post this, it might already be up.
• 1:34:51
  I don't know, we'll see. But I sincerely thank every
• 1:34:53
  creator who did this podcast thing with me.
• 1:34:56
  It was it was very sporadic and short notice.
• 1:34:59
  So I was, I'm super thankful that they were able to, you
• 1:35:03
  know, reply so quickly, get back to me and then schedule
• 1:35:07
  something. But I think that's.
• 1:35:09
  All I've got. For now, hopefully I'll be doing
• 1:35:11
  another podcast thing here soon, even if it's just me talking.
• 1:35:16
  I definitely want to find some time to do that.
• 1:35:18
  So yeah, thank you guys for listening.
• 1:35:20
  I really appreciate that. Let me know what your thoughts
• 1:35:22
  are. Hope you guys have been
• 1:35:23
  commenting on all the videos so far.
• 1:35:26
  This was a, it was a lot of fun to put together.
• 1:35:28
  Very new, very different for me. So maybe we'll get some more
• 1:35:31
  like this in the future, who knows?
• 1:35:32
  I hope you guys take care, take it easy and I'll see you soon.