Latest / Babes, how did you get here / America Failed Me—So I Left to Raise My Child in Africa

Transcript

America Failed Me—So I Left to Raise My Child in Africa · Babes, how did you get here

• 0:00
  Why do you not want to raise your children in the States?
• 0:03
  There's a lot of...
• 0:05
  I just think life can be better.
• 0:07
  You know, when I look at even just like work-life balance, there's so many different facets, but like work-life balance.
• 0:12
  I feel like, you know, even the fact that we don't have maternity leave.
• 0:17
  Yeah, I thought that one was crazy.
• 0:18
  It's just like, why?
• 0:20
  You know, we're literally...
• 0:21
  It's a job.
• 0:22
  It's really a job to like grow a human.
• 0:25
  So when you go to LA, you move there for how long?
• 0:29
  Oh, I was there for, so my first stint, I will say, I was there for, what, two and a half years.
• 0:39
  Then I moved to Europe.
• 0:40
  Okay.
• 0:41
  And then I moved around a bit, and then I came back.
• 0:45
  Modeling took you to Europe?
• 0:47
  Actually, no.
• 0:50
  I was dating a guy at the time who was from Spain.
• 0:53
  Okay.
• 0:54
  And I moved because of him.
• 0:57
  And I will say modeling kept me.
• 0:59
  Okay.
• 1:00
  But the initial move was because of that partner.
• 1:05
  And I remember thinking like, okay, that's actually what ended up happening.
• 1:12
  I thought to myself, okay, well, what happens?
• 1:14
  Like what will happen if we don't work out?
• 1:16
  Okay.
• 1:16
  Why did you choose South Africa?
• 1:21
  I think South Africa is this amazing combination of...
• 1:26
  culture has still, they've managed to retain a lot of their African culture.
• 1:30
  They're very proud of their African culture.
• 1:32
  And they still have a lot of the influences from the West as well.
• 1:38
  So it's this really cool combination of like old African ways and new school Western ways.
• 1:50
  We're dropping new episodes every single week.
• 1:52
  So make sure you subscribe.
• 1:53
  You don't want to miss this, babes.
• 1:55
  And leave a comment and tell me, what do you want to hear out of my next conversation?
• 1:59
  Your support really helps this community grow.
• 2:02
  And if you know someone who's quietly been thinking, should they take that next big leap?
• 2:06
  Babes, send them the podcast.
• 2:08
  It feels like now more than ever, people are thinking about where they belong.
• 2:13
  And not just geographically, but culturally, emotionally and spiritually.
• 2:18
  I am April Jackson, traveling the world, finding interesting people who have chosen a life elsewhere.
• 2:24
  Simone Floyd, Miss Power Trip, is a conscious travel consultant, wellness practitioner, mother, and a proud Pan-Africanist whose life has spanned continents, cultures, and identities.
• 2:38
  Born in the United States, but shaped by life across Europe, the Caribbean, and Africa.
• 2:43
  Her life took a decisive turn after the murder of George Floyd, which led her to the decision that life in Africa was where she wanted to build her new reality and find refuge.
• 2:55
  But before we get into this open, honest, expansive conversation, I have to ask, Babes, how did you get here?
• 3:03
  Well, it's been a journey.
• 3:06
  I'll say that.
• 3:09
  So, yes, as you said, I'm originally from the U.S., from Chicago, Illinois, Chicago suburbs.
• 3:19
  And I've been...
• 3:23
  An avid traveler for a long time.
• 3:26
  I think I knew that I didn't want to remain in the States.
• 3:33
  I think that had been a goal of mine for a while to relocate to...
• 3:40
  I didn't even know, at the time, I didn't even know what get out of there meant, but I knew that I didn't feel like it was, this was the place I needed to be settled.
• 3:49
  I wasn't sure what that meant.
• 3:50
  And this is post George Floyd, or you had these feelings before?
• 3:53
  Oh, even before, definitely before.
• 3:54
  Okay.
• 3:54
  Definitely, I would say, while I was in college, I kind of started,
• 4:01
  learning more about the world.
• 4:03
  Well, even much before that, I did grow up in a very multicultural community.
• 4:08
  I remember being nine, 10, 11, and having friends who were Polish, and who were Mexican, and who were Indian.
• 4:18
  I did have a pretty diverse group of friends.
• 4:23
  And, yeah.
• 4:25
  Since I think my mom put me in Spanish classes when I was seven.
• 4:30
  Okay.
• 4:31
  These seeds were planted.
• 4:32
  Yes.
• 4:33
  That you were going to potentially go elsewhere.
• 4:35
  Right, right.
• 4:37
  So from that time it was... Where did you go to college?
• 4:40
  I went to Grambling State University in Louisiana.
• 4:44
  And so it's an HBCU, Historically Black College.
• 4:47
  Okay.
• 4:48
  And that was great to just be around...
• 4:52
  that many, that number of black people who were all just learning and exploring and figuring out their roads in life.
• 5:01
  So that was also impactful for me, I would say.
• 5:04
  And also, at Grambling, I think that's where I met a lot of Francophone Africans who really started piquing my interest in French because I came from a community that, I came from a community where Spanish was...
• 5:23
  Was the predominant other?
• 5:25
  Yes, I came from a community where Spanish was definitely, it was a very common second language.
• 5:32
  French, not so much.
• 5:33
  But my introduction to French was not France, or French people per se.
• 5:39
  It was Francophone Africans.
• 5:41
  Had a lot of friends from Francophone African nations.
• 5:44
  How would you describe your childhood in Chicago?
• 5:47
  I think of Chicago, I think, it's the Windy City, right?
• 5:50
  It is.
• 5:50
  It's the Windy City, I think, restaurant scene.
• 5:53
  I appreciate there is a darker side to Chicago, like most places, but I don't know much about what your day-to-day life would look like.
• 6:02
  Okay.
• 6:02
  Carlito.
• 6:04
  For me, I grew up in Aurora, which is actually the second largest city in Illinois.
• 6:08
  Okay.
• 6:09
  It's a suburb of Chicago.
• 6:10
  Okay.
• 6:12
  And it was very, you know, as some people will call it, like, Little Mexico because it was very predominantly Latino.
• 6:20
  As I got, especially as I got older, it was becoming increasingly, increasingly Latino.
• 6:28
  Okay.
• 6:28
  So you could find, I always tell people.
• 6:30
  Like some of the best Mexican food I've ever had is in my hometown, Aurora.
• 6:35
  America can do Mexican food in ways that I haven't found elsewhere.
• 6:39
  Like London, the Mexican food scene is not the one.
• 6:43
  Somebody else was telling me that Cape Town Mexican food is lacking and she loves her tacos.
• 6:48
  Oh, okay.
• 6:49
  So it's really interesting to hear that Chicago is where it's at.
• 6:53
  I mean, yeah, I would say specifically Aurora because we do have such a high percentage of Latinos and a lot of those Latinos are Mexican.
• 7:02
  Okay.
• 7:03
  So you enjoyed your childhood?
• 7:04
  Definitely, yes.
• 7:05
  You had this multicultural taste.
• 7:08
  I did.
• 7:08
  And do you think that that is a part of what has led you into so many new spaces?
• 7:14
  Um, I do.
• 7:15
  I do.
• 7:16
  I remember, you know, being young and having friends who were, you know, um, different religions, different ethnicities.
• 7:24
  I have friends who were Sikhs.
• 7:25
  I could tell you what a Sikh was at, you know, such as some people now were like, well, what is that?
• 7:29
  Yes.
• 7:30
  I remember a conversation actually that my, my mother was having on the phone, um, with a friend, very innocent conversation, but, um, she was telling her friend that, you know, she just picked me up and, um, she was like, oh yeah, you know, she was, um,
• 7:44
  I forget if I was, I don't think I was over her house, but we were doing something together and her comment was, oh yes, she had a play date with her Chinese friend.
• 7:53
  And I was like, what?
• 7:56
  Like, mom, she's not Chinese, she's Vietnamese.
• 8:00
  And for me, it was just so, because I knew, you know, that this is where she's from.
• 8:05
  Right.
• 8:05
  And for her to say China, I didn't even understand the correlation.
• 8:09
  Right.
• 8:09
  It was just like, but she's not from China.
• 8:11
  She's from Vietnam.
• 8:12
  Right.
• 8:12
  She's Vietnamese.
• 8:13
  And how old are you roughly?
• 8:14
  I was six.
• 8:15
  Okay.
• 8:16
  I was like, I remember very well, I was six and I was just like, but why would she say that?
• 8:19
  That's not true.
• 8:20
  She's not Vietnamese.
• 8:21
  Right.
• 8:22
  Right.
• 8:22
  Like, it was so clear in my mind.
• 8:25
  It's like, this is what she introduced herself as, so that's what she is.
• 8:28
  I didn't understand.
• 8:29
  It was like, okay, well, she knew she was Asian, but didn't... Know where to place her.
• 8:33
  For me, it was like, this is what she said, and this is it.
• 8:36
  I love it.
• 8:36
  You know, and so I remember that.
• 8:39
  And as I got older, I realized, okay, well, she just kind of lumped her in.
• 8:44
  But for me, it was a clear respect for that...
• 8:48
  that country and that culture that she introduced herself as.
• 8:51
  Amazing.
• 8:52
  Before we continue, make sure that you join our community by clicking the link below.
• 8:57
  You will get to choose thumbnails before the episodes go live, pick our next destinations, even recommend guests.
• 9:04
  I really cannot wait for you to help me shape where this podcast goes.
• 9:09
  When you go to college, what are you doing after you graduate?
• 9:13
  Well, so initially the plan was I started out as a marketing major, actually.
• 9:21
  Because I was so good at mathematics, the math department recruited me.
• 9:26
  Okay.
• 9:27
  And I ended up double majoring in marketing and mathematics.
• 9:32
  Okay.
• 9:34
  Yeah, pretty much for technical reasons, because when I switched school, I ended up transferring.
• 9:40
  I needed to make mathematics my minor.
• 9:42
  Okay.
• 9:42
  But still, yeah, that's why.
• 9:45
  You said they recruited you.
• 9:46
  Carlitos, Carlitos, come on.
• 9:49
  No, no, no, come on.
• 9:53
  Oops, I hope that's not important, whatever that is, Matthew.
• 9:59
  So, did you not know that you were good at maths?
• 10:02
  How did they come to this company?
• 10:04
  I definitely did.
• 10:05
  I definitely knew.
• 10:05
  I was a math lead and I competed on the school's math team.
• 10:10
  And I actually got inducted to the who's who of mathematics, which is basically just...
• 10:19
  which is basically just, you know, for those who excel at math, you can, if you have certain scores, they'll... You'll become a part of this crew kids group?
• 10:31
  Right, yeah.
• 10:31
  Okay.
• 10:33
  Why didn't you pursue it as a major?
• 10:34
  As a major, I really didn't think it was, I don't know, fun enough?
• 10:41
  I thought, what can I do with this?
• 10:43
  outside of competing in the math bowl or competing in math leagues.
• 10:47
  I wasn't really sure.
• 10:48
  So I knew I wanted to do something that involved people, and I just wasn't sure how math would correlate to that outside of being a math professor.
• 10:57
  Right.
• 10:58
  So.
• 11:00
  Is that sharp?
• 11:01
  Carlitos.
• 11:04
  Baby?
• 11:13
  So when you said you started in marketing and then you double majored, you graduate uni.
• 11:18
  Yes.
• 11:19
  And then do you know exactly what you're going to go into?
• 11:23
  Well, the plan was for me to go into actuarial sciences.
• 11:28
  When you said math, that's what I thought.
• 11:29
  Oh, okay.
• 11:30
  Yeah.
• 11:30
  Okay.
• 11:31
  I do love statistics.
• 11:33
  I was good at statistics, love statistics.
• 11:35
  However...
• 11:38
  Very shortly after school, I started, I was, you know, I'm 5'10 and, you know, a size two, a size zero.
• 11:47
  So it's happened very shortly after school that I started modeling.
• 11:50
  Okay.
• 11:51
  I got kind of, I don't know, discovered.
• 11:55
  And then I was with modeling agencies for the next several.
• 12:04
  It's fine.
• 12:06
  It's fine.
• 12:12
  Agua.
• 12:13
  I don't know.
• 12:15
  Mucho agua.
• 12:17
  Flava.
• 12:18
  When you say he got discovered, mm-hmm.
• 12:20
  Dash it.
• 12:21
  Yeah man, freestyle, pass the towel.
• 12:23
  When you say he got discovered, what does that mean?
• 12:25
  Wait, will it be easier?
• 12:29
  I don't know if it's easy.
• 12:30
  Will it be easier for him to go back there with them?
• 12:32
  I don't know.
• 12:33
  He's fine.
• 12:33
  It's okay?
• 12:34
  Yeah man.
• 12:35
  This is a natural conversation.
• 12:37
  Okay.
• 12:38
  Don't stress.
• 12:40
  Okay.
• 12:40
  I have two.
• 12:41
  They don't say stay small long enough.
• 12:43
  Carlitos.
• 12:44
  Come.
• 12:45
  But they're never on your podcast.
• 12:48
  That's okay.
• 12:49
  That's why we edit.
• 12:50
  Okay.
• 12:54
  Yeah.
• 12:55
  Up to Bobby.
• 12:57
  Easy, easy.
• 12:58
  Oh, let's not do the camera.
• 12:59
  Baby.
• 13:00
  Carlitos, mira.
• 13:01
  It's boring.
• 13:02
  That's boring.
• 13:04
  Yeah.
• 13:07
  Don't worry.
• 13:14
  Oh, we're not gonna do that.
• 13:16
  That's also boring.
• 13:17
  Yeah, okay.
• 13:21
  So when you say you got discovered, what does that look like?
• 13:26
  It was really,
• 13:28
  I wouldn't even say I got discovered.
• 13:29
  I made myself... Discoverable.
• 13:32
  Exactly, yes.
• 13:33
  How did you make yourself discoverable?
• 13:34
  I started with a small traveling modeling show when I was in college.
• 13:41
  Okay.
• 13:42
  And then after that, I moved from Louisiana to Georgia, to Atlanta, Georgia.
• 13:49
  And I thought, this is something that I want to pursue here.
• 13:52
  Okay.
• 13:54
  So you leave Chicago.
• 13:55
  Woo!
• 13:56
  Oh, well, I went to school in Louisiana.
• 13:58
  Okay.
• 13:59
  And so I left Louisiana.
• 14:00
  And so you leave here for Atlanta.
• 14:02
  Yes, for Atlanta.
• 14:06
  And this is to pursue modeling?
• 14:08
  Yes, that was... How old are we?
• 14:11
  I was, what, 22.
• 14:14
  22?
• 14:14
  Yeah.
• 14:16
  Why did you choose Atlanta and not like a New York?
• 14:23
  I think at the time it seemed like kind of this black Mecca and that's where everyone was going.
• 14:28
  And I was like, okay, yes, I can find my path there.
• 14:34
  I can find my tribe there.
• 14:36
  And I didn't really know anyone at the time.
• 14:43
  I also did like being in the South.
• 14:45
  I felt like, okay, the South is a little more maybe forgiving than New York.
• 14:49
  Okay.
• 14:52
  And I figured, you know, I could- You do well there.
• 14:55
  I could do well here.
• 14:56
  And did we do well there?
• 14:58
  We did.
• 14:58
  We did.
• 14:59
  I felt after a while, after I would say I was there, what, two and a half years.
• 15:05
  Okay.
• 15:07
  And I started doing,
• 15:10
  I actually ended up being signed with a modeling agency and then also a talent agency.
• 15:14
  Okay.
• 15:15
  And, um, I... Maybe.
• 15:21
  Okay.
• 15:23
  Look, babe.
• 15:24
  Buh-buh?
• 15:25
  Take this.
• 15:25
  Here, what about this?
• 15:28
  Can I give that to you?
• 15:30
  What's the difference between a model agency and a talent agency for people that aren't in the industry?
• 15:34
  Oh, just the modeling agency was focused pretty much strictly on modeling and versus the talent agency was in other areas as well.
• 15:44
  So that could be like extra work, acting, yes, other things.
• 15:50
  They signed more than just models.
• 15:52
  Even if you were strictly a model, the agency itself had... A division that would put you out to other kind of jobs.
• 15:59
  Right.
• 16:00
  Cool.
• 16:01
  So you said you were there for two and a half years.
• 16:03
  Yes.
• 16:03
  At this point, is this your full-time work?
• 16:05
  Yes.
• 16:05
  Initially, it wasn't.
• 16:06
  Initially, I was working with, actually, the Department of Family and Children's Services.
• 16:12
  Okay.
• 16:12
  So that was interesting in and of itself.
• 16:16
  What were you doing with them?
• 16:17
  So I was with a company that we were charged with helping the women who were on welfare, which at that time the name had changed to Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, TANF.
• 16:32
  We were in charge of helping those women find employment.
• 16:35
  Okay.
• 16:35
  So we were an employment agency.
• 16:40
  Say, what do you want?
• 16:45
  He's looking for it.
• 16:46
  So you were helping them find work?
• 16:48
  Helping them find work.
• 16:49
  And so that meant whatever went along with helping them find works, whether that was crafting their resumes, whether that was helping them to find appropriate dress for interviews, coaching them on interview skills, helping them
• 17:07
  with their childcare situation because oftentimes, um, childcare was an issue with the women who had several children.
• 17:15
  Right.
• 17:15
  Some, some had one or two.
• 17:19
  We had women with nine.
• 17:21
  Nine children to one woman.
• 17:23
  Yes.
• 17:25
  That was the most, we had a couple that had nine, nine children.
• 17:28
  Yes.
• 17:29
  How do you, I understand you say you help them, but how does one help a mom with nine children?
• 17:35
  Um,
• 17:37
  It's difficult.
• 17:37
  It's difficult.
• 17:38
  We actually, our segment of that demographic was called the hard to serve.
• 17:44
  So we...
• 17:47
  Hard to serve, you said?
• 17:48
  Yes.
• 17:48
  Okay.
• 17:48
  The women were labeled, were labeled hard to serve.
• 17:53
  Yes.
• 17:53
  Do they know this?
• 17:55
  They know that that's their labeling?
• 17:57
  I'm actually not sure.
• 17:58
  I don't recall if they were maybe privy to that.
• 18:01
  Yes.
• 18:01
  But that was how they were labeled because many of them- Light.
• 18:04
  Carlitos.
• 18:05
  Maybe.
• 18:06
  What was she saying?
• 18:08
  We were talking about if they knew that they were hard to serve.
• 18:10
  Right.
• 18:11
  Labeled that way.
• 18:11
  Okay.
• 18:12
  I honestly don't, I don't recall, but I don't think they knew that they were labeled hard to serve.
• 18:17
  But it was the term for the clients, the women who, they didn't have high school diplomas.
• 18:27
  They had, some of them had felonies.
• 18:31
  What did it teach you to work with women who you could see that they have...
• 18:37
  a lot of obstacles, right?
• 18:39
  You mentioned that in terms of education and America is one of the few places, I swear when you're 60, people are still asking, where did you go to college?
• 18:46
  Right?
• 18:46
  Like, it just seems to be so ingrained in the culture that, you know, university education is a must.
• 18:53
  It's ingrained in the culture that you will be judged on, you know, what your career choices are,
• 19:00
  the car you drive, where you live.
• 19:02
  And I'm sure that these ladies would be feeling some sort of burden for not having ticked off all of those boxes.
• 19:11
  Yes, most definitely.
• 19:15
  I'm sure they did.
• 19:18
  But I think before they could even feel the burden of those judgments,
• 19:27
  They're just trying to survive?
• 19:29
  It was such a far out thought.
• 19:31
  You know, before reaching that point, you're trying to figure out, okay, what are my kids going to eat?
• 19:38
  Right.
• 19:39
  You know, okay, well, we're getting evicted from this place.
• 19:42
  What are we going to do next week?
• 19:44
  Like, there's so many other things.
• 19:47
  The immediate things.
• 19:48
  The other immediate and more pressing.
• 19:51
  So I'm sure that, you know, that might have been a fleeting thought or a thought at some point in their lives, but it wasn't their main focus at all.
• 20:01
  And also, to be honest, so many of them were in the same situation and so many of their peers and the people around them and their actual...
• 20:11
  you know, friend space or immediate peer space, a lot of them were in the same situation.
• 20:19
  So it was for me jarring to see that so many people were, you know,
• 20:28
  Yeah, it was almost like this impossible cycle.
• 20:34
  Because once you have, you know, three, four kids and you're trying to go work, it's really difficult.
• 20:47
  So it was, you know, even just because the daycare system, you're not supposed to leave your child if your child is sick.
• 20:54
  You can't.
• 20:55
  You can't have them come and get the rest of the, you know, 20 kids sick.
• 20:59
  Right.
• 21:00
  So you're supposed to leave the child at home or stay home.
• 21:03
  And if you are...
• 21:06
  if you are in charge of working to provide for five, seven, nine children, and one of them is sick, you have to stay home with that child.
• 21:17
  It puts everybody in jeopardy.
• 21:19
  It's just a very difficult situation to be in.
• 21:23
  And then when one gets sick and you're at home in this small home with all these kids, I mean, then the next one gets sick.
• 21:28
  Then the other one gets sick.
• 21:29
  It's like...
• 21:31
  It was very difficult and damn near impossible to stay, as the Department of Family and Children's Services would say gainfully employed.
• 21:40
  We wanted them to be gainfully employed.
• 21:43
  It's so hard to do.
• 21:45
  And you see a lot of these women are struggling.
• 21:47
  I saw that so much of what is instilled in you, and you need to do so much work from
• 22:01
  The back end, I guess, where, you know, coming, meeting these girls at this point in their life or these women at this point in their life, you could plant some seeds and do some good.
• 22:11
  But a lot of times there was just so much pretty much like cleanup that needed to be done at that point.
• 22:17
  It's funny that you say that because after I won West Jamaica, I started my own charity and I had this like rose-tinted...
• 22:25
  view that I was gonna be able to come in so I worked very closely with the romance center which is basically the in-between so they're juvenile they've done something wrong and they are in between the court deciding whether they will go to a children's home or whether they will go to a juvenile prison or whether they will go home basically and
• 22:48
  And there was this movie with, was it Hilary Swank?
• 22:51
  Where she, everyone writes in their journals.
• 22:55
  I can't remember the name of the movie.
• 22:56
  Yeah, it was Hilary Swank, yes I do.
• 22:58
  Yeah, and I had like, I was gonna be Hilary, right?
• 23:01
  I was gonna go into this, like, romance center.
• 23:04
  We were gonna work on seeing them as individuals, you know, really building self-esteem.
• 23:10
  It's all girls that had this like Hollywood vision of how it's gonna change their lives, all of this stuff.
• 23:16
  And I learned very quickly that, like you say, I'm meeting them at this stage.
• 23:23
  They are age ranging from about 13 to 16, 17.
• 23:28
  They have seen things that I will never see, right?
• 23:31
  That I can't even begin to imagine what their day to day life looked like before coming to this facility.
• 23:37
  I had one of my favorites because yes, I believe in favorites.
• 23:40
  It is what it is.
• 23:40
  Judge me.
• 23:42
  One of my favorite girls, she was in there because she had broken a glass bottle on the way home from the supermarket and stabbed another girl in the neck.
• 23:53
  Right.
• 23:53
  Thankfully, the girl did not die.
• 23:55
  That was my next question.
• 23:56
  But she, you know, endured serious injuries.
• 23:59
  And the reason this is relevant is because this is one of my favorites.
• 24:01
  Right.
• 24:02
  So I'm seeing you in this facility.
• 24:03
  We're bonding.
• 24:05
  I can't visualize the version of you that stabs people in the neck with glass bottles.
• 24:10
  Right.
• 24:11
  Like it's just not a thing.
• 24:12
  And the point is, I'd go there every Sunday.
• 24:15
  I would host this program where we would do some sort of like learning educational activity.
• 24:22
  Right.
• 24:22
  And then afterwards, I would say to people, I'll say, as long as you need me to, and you can speak to me one-on-one.
• 24:27
  Because a huge part of the issue in this home was that the people aren't trained, and so they would confide in a house mother, and then all their business would be aired out to the entire home when that house mother gets upset with you, kind of thing.
• 24:41
  So I really wanted to create this space that they could know that they could speak to someone, and it wouldn't leave us, right?
• 24:49
  The point is, is that my favorites...
• 24:52
  I realize that I go home and leave you in this environment.
• 24:56
  Right.
• 24:57
  So as much as I see your potential, I see that you could do amazing things.
• 25:01
  You are still sitting in this space for the other six days of the week.
• 25:06
  Furthermore, like you say, there has been so much to get you to this point.
• 25:11
  that I had to, at first I took it personally, when for example, I'd have a girl who leaves the home, she actually went to England with her aunt, so I thought, great, out of the country, new environment, new people, but unfortunately the culture that she had grown up with
• 25:27
  was still very present.
• 25:28
  It was just across the ocean.
• 25:31
  And she then has another baby at like 17.
• 25:35
  Right.
• 25:35
  And like you say, then she has her third baby.
• 25:38
  And so although I had these dreams and saw the potential for her,
• 25:43
  I had to accept that there is only so much that one can do, right?
• 25:49
  Because so much had come before.
• 25:52
  And at first I took it personally because I felt like I was failing them by not being able to really change the trajectory of their lives.
• 25:59
  And then I realized that
• 26:02
  Sometimes it's not about making a 180 transformation.
• 26:05
  Sometimes it is about planting just a few seeds, even though the water never water good because, you know, the plant never grew the way I wanted it to.
• 26:14
  But I had to kind of accept the boundaries within which you can really change someone's life later on.
• 26:21
  And it really confirmed to me, you know, even later on in motherhood, it really confirmed to me that those early years,
• 26:28
  are like, are so important.
• 26:31
  Yeah, those foundational, I mean, it's the foundation.
• 26:34
  Yeah.
• 26:36
  Yeah, and think about, and you're having this experience with girls who are 13, 15, and like the women who we had in our program were, you know, like 21 to 60.
• 26:52
  Right.
• 26:54
  And, you know, I'm coming in at 22,
• 26:58
  And it's like, how much can you change a 55-year-old woman?
• 27:06
  You know, um, now not to say like, I will say that the women were incredibly, um, you know, the vast majority of them, just, just good women.
• 27:18
  You know, we didn't have, we didn't really have issues.
• 27:21
  You know, we had some, you know, but exceptions.
• 27:23
  Those were exceptions with the rule.
• 27:25
  I would say, I look back at that time with, um, I look fondly on those women, um, um,
• 27:32
  But there's still, it's, even small things like my mother would tell me just, okay, if you're sitting, you know, just like cross your legs.
• 27:41
  Whether it's, it doesn't have to be at the knee, but at the ankle or, you know, something.
• 27:44
  If you have a skirt on, a dress on, cross your legs.
• 27:48
  Yeah.
• 27:49
  And there were times where, you know, you'd get these, you know.
• 27:55
  these outfits, these business outfits, or, you know, these suits, or just work-ready clothes.
• 28:01
  And we have a special program that would allow them to come and get clothes for free.
• 28:06
  So we had these, we fostered these partnerships with these businesses, and that was great.
• 28:11
  However, you know, we have these women getting ready to go to an interview, and they have their script that we've practiced, and they have the resume that I've crafted for them, and we've printed up, and they're ready to go.
• 28:22
  And I remember at one point we were actually on the train going to, I was escorting some of these girls, these women to an interview.
• 28:32
  And I'm like, close your legs.
• 28:36
  Like, why are you sitting like that?
• 28:38
  And they're sitting like that because that's how they always sit.
• 28:40
  Right.
• 28:42
  And it's not even a thought.
• 28:44
  And my mother's words are going through my head.
• 28:48
  Like, that's not how you sit.
• 28:52
  And their mother's words aren't playing in their head.
• 28:56
  So it's like these are things they're being introduced to in their 30s or 40s versus I can remember being three and my mom saying, you don't do that when you have a skirt on, when you have a dress on.
• 29:08
  Sit this way.
• 29:09
  Okay, walk down the stairs like this.
• 29:10
  Okay, you can't climb the tree today.
• 29:13
  You know, so there's just, there was just a lot of that where I remember calling my mother and actively thanking her at many points during, during that job, because it was just so evident that, you know, the role of a mother is just...
• 29:33
  It's vital, I mean it's vital for everyone, but you know, when small things like that, it's just, you take for granted.
• 29:38
  I remember, you know, just walking down the stairs like a lady, whatever that means, you know, and I had someone to teach me that.
• 29:47
  Like, you don't do, you know, don't stomp coming down the hall.
• 29:49
  You should, people shouldn't hear you coming.
• 29:52
  Right.
• 29:52
  You know, and things like that where I know people say, okay, well those are gender roles and that's frivolous, but, um, yes, get it.
• 30:03
  Where?
• 30:04
  Where?
• 30:04
  Where?
• 30:05
  The book?
• 30:06
  Oh, I can't.
• 30:06
  Oh, I can't stop.
• 30:09
  Where?
• 30:10
  Where?
• 30:11
  Okay, you just put it back there.
• 30:13
  Um, yeah, those things, people take note.
• 30:20
  I will say that.
• 30:20
  I won't say if it matters or doesn't matter, but people do take note.
• 30:25
  And when you're in a vulnerable situation where you are the one who is in need of the job or need of something, what's going to put you ahead of someone else?
• 30:37
  Yes.
• 30:37
  What do you want?
• 30:39
  Here it is.
• 30:41
  Oh, I don't see it.
• 30:44
  I don't know, baby.
• 30:46
  Butch, do you want the pin?
• 30:47
  Oh, yeah, it's the other pin.
• 30:50
  I don't know it.
• 30:51
  Oh, it's there, I'm sorry.
• 30:52
  It's fine.
• 30:53
  There it is.
• 30:55
  Look.
• 30:56
  Tells you.
• 30:59
  Nothing.
• 31:01
  It's about as far as my Spanish goes.
• 31:02
  I speak a little, little, little Spanish.
• 31:06
  Yes.
• 31:06
  I love Tatia April.
• 31:10
  Yes.
• 31:11
  Yes.
• 31:13
  But it's funny what you say about having those moments where we take our childhood for granted.
• 31:18
  Because I think regardless of our journeys, there's always those moments that you get a bit reflective and you realize, oh, that's why I know what I know.
• 31:27
  Yes, yes, I have those moments all the time.
• 31:30
  It's, yeah, hindsight is... Hmm, hindsight.
• 31:36
  Baby, baby.
• 31:39
  Tranquila, tranquila, tranquila, tranquila.
• 31:42
  Yeah.
• 31:43
  Hindsight is 20-20, as they say.
• 31:47
  Yeah.
• 31:48
  Yes.
• 31:49
  So when you then say that you're modeling full time, what spurred that decision?
• 31:56
  Really, I was working that job when I started booking more and more gigs.
• 32:02
  And it was getting to the point where it was like, okay, if I'm making as much in my part-time work as I am with my full-time job, like I could either devote more time to this.
• 32:14
  Right.
• 32:15
  Or, you know, like if I let this go and I have the extra time, you know, do you think I'd be able to...
• 32:23
  Like, come out ahead if I, you know.
• 32:25
  So I got to that point where it was kind of like my day job and my part-time job were evening out.
• 32:30
  Right.
• 32:31
  As far as finances.
• 32:32
  And that's when I was like, okay, well, you know, I think it's time.
• 32:37
  I think I can do it.
• 32:38
  You know, I think I can maybe.
• 32:41
  And I remember I had, I booked.
• 32:48
  Yes, baby.
• 32:50
  ¿Quieres dormir?
• 32:52
  Okay.
• 32:53
  No, baby.
• 32:55
  The book?
• 32:58
  Oh, the book.
• 32:59
  One second.
• 33:00
  Is it there?
• 33:01
  Libro.
• 33:03
  Oh.
• 33:08
  Thank you.
• 33:09
  No problem.
• 33:21
  Yeah, I remember I was still living in Atlanta, and I had booked a gig in LA.
• 33:26
  Okay.
• 33:26
  It was my first time going to... What is this?
• 33:30
  Are you ready?
• 33:42
  Yes.
• 33:42
  And that was...
• 33:45
  It's like every time I talk, I just...
• 33:48
  So it was your first time in LA?
• 33:50
  Yes.
• 33:50
  What's the job?
• 33:53
  Baby.
• 33:54
  No?
• 33:55
  Um, yeah, that was, um, yeah, it was my first time going to LA.
• 34:00
  It was for a gig.
• 34:01
  It was, um, some magazine.
• 34:03
  Um, let me try my breath.
• 34:07
  Baby.
• 34:08
  Baby.
• 34:09
  Do you want to rest?
• 34:10
  Look.
• 34:10
  I'm going to put you in here.
• 34:15
  A book?
• 34:18
  Okay.
• 34:19
  Yes.
• 34:20
  And so I remember we had the only thing that we had to get ourselves over there.
• 34:25
  And I was like, okay, I applied for it.
• 34:27
  I didn't, you know, I was applying to everything because I really, especially I was trying to get to LA.
• 34:32
  Okay.
• 34:32
  So I had applied and... Baby.
• 34:42
  Are you tired?
• 34:43
  Yes.
• 34:44
  Yes?
• 34:44
  Do you want to sleep?
• 34:48
  See?
• 34:50
  This is a bedtime book.
• 34:51
  Yeah.
• 34:54
  Um, yes, so I was... Carlito.
• 35:03
  I was actually... Oh!
• 35:12
  Oh!
• 35:12
  Oh!
• 35:20
  Yes, but I knew I wanted to.
• 35:22
  I was getting to that point where I felt like, oh, I've done so many things here.
• 35:25
  Let's see if I can branch out and do something else.
• 35:29
  The weather was calling me.
• 35:32
  So, yeah, I was actively looking for work in L.A.
• 35:37
  Okay.
• 35:37
  Without actually living in L.A.
• 35:39
  Okay.
• 35:40
  So you just wanted to pop over, do the jobs, but be based elsewhere?
• 35:45
  Well, no, I would have loved to, but initially that was kind of my, like, let me just dip my toe in.
• 35:50
  Okay, get a taste.
• 35:51
  And see if, you know, am I booking anything?
• 35:55
  Can I get work?
• 35:56
  How do they like me?
• 35:59
  Yeah, I remember that after that first trip, I was like, okay, I want to move.
• 36:05
  Okay.
• 36:06
  And I pretty much saved up.
• 36:08
  Why do you want to move?
• 36:10
  I loved it.
• 36:11
  Really?
• 36:12
  I've never been to LA.
• 36:13
  So I've lived in New York.
• 36:15
  Yes.
• 36:16
  I spent a lot of time like Florida.
• 36:18
  So East Coast, I'm aware.
• 36:20
  West Coast, I've only been to Vegas, which I don't feel like counts because you're just like it.
• 36:24
  Vegas, I liked it for what it was in the sense that I was there to have the time of my life and men pay for everything.
• 36:30
  OK, like chivalry is not dead in Vegas.
• 36:33
  which I loved.
• 36:34
  I would step out of clubs and like people just like, Oh, what are you doing now?
• 36:38
  I was like, Oh, I'm thinking I'm going to get something to eat.
• 36:41
  And they're like, do you mind if we take you to dinner?
• 36:43
  No, I don't mind if you take me to dinner.
• 36:45
  And that's how LA is.
• 36:47
  Really?
• 36:47
  Yes.
• 36:48
  See, I need to go to LA.
• 36:51
  I'm telling you, out of everywhere I've been, out of everywhere I've moved, and now I'm on the, I think this is the ninth country I've lived in.
• 37:00
  Nowhere was as big of a culture shock as moving to Los Angeles.
• 37:04
  Really?
• 37:06
  As in even compared to Europe, the Caribbean?
• 37:12
  No, we need to unpack that.
• 37:13
  Explain.
• 37:13
  Moving to LA was definitely the biggest culture shock.
• 37:16
  I breastfed my girls until two and a half.
• 37:18
  Yeah.
• 37:19
  And so, and it's so funny because in the UK, they have the worst rates of breastfeeding.
• 37:23
  Really?
• 37:24
  Less than 1% breastfeed after six months.
• 37:26
  Really?
• 37:26
  I'd go to the meetings with the midwives for the checkups afterwards.
• 37:30
  They'd say, how are you feeding?
• 37:32
  And they'd almost start writing formula before I've answered.
• 37:35
  And I would be like, no, I'm breastfeeding.
• 37:37
  She says, you mean, you mean mixed feeding?
• 37:40
  Yeah.
• 37:40
  I said, no, no, I mean just breastfeeding.
• 37:43
  You can't be breastfeeding twins.
• 37:45
  No, no, yes, yes I can and I am.
• 37:48
  And the reason I share that is because the expectation is that you will not be breastfeeding.
• 37:53
  The expectation is you're certainly not breastfeeding twins.
• 37:57
  And it's funny because there's been so many stories of, for example, women breastfeeding in a car in the parking lot of a very big, well-known supermarket.
• 38:06
  And the security tells her that that is inappropriate.
• 38:09
  In the car.
• 38:09
  In her own car.
• 38:13
  Breastfeeding her own child.
• 38:14
  Why are you in my business?
• 38:16
  Why are you at my window?
• 38:17
  Why are you at my window?
• 38:19
  And I was like, you know, again, I must just give off energy of don't play with me because nobody has ever spoken to me in public.
• 38:25
  And it's hilarious because, you know, some women will use like a cloth or whatever over their heads.
• 38:30
  And in the beginning, like when I just I was like, oh, maybe that's what I'm supposed to do.
• 38:35
  Right.
• 38:35
  I mean, I'm supposed to use the muslin cloth.
• 38:37
  Keep in mind, I tandem feed all the time.
• 38:40
  It's too close, right?
• 38:42
  And I don't know if it's the Jamaican in me that has zero shame, but the girls would take the cloth off their head because they weren't used to it.
• 38:48
  They're COVID babies.
• 38:49
  We'd been breastfeeding the whole time, free, fine.
• 38:53
  And then I was like, who am I trying to cover for?
• 38:56
  Like who, the stranger that I genuinely don't care about your opinion, my child is very comfortable, they're eating, I could not care less.
• 39:05
  And I think that again, you know, certain cultures have really changed feeding.
• 39:12
  into something that to me is unrecognizable.
• 39:14
  And I think as mothers, it's very strange that I notice the medicalization of motherhood, whether it's from labor, from the immediate presumption that, again, when you have twins, you must have a C-section, right?
• 39:29
  Whether it's from the feeding, we're going to go straight into formula.
• 39:32
  And it's not about shaming formula, because I feel like every time I talk about breast milk, there's somebody on a keyboard saying,
• 39:38
  that is very angry to tell me.
• 39:41
  And I see a lot of those comments.
• 39:43
  You know, I'm a part of different groups, and even in Chicago, I was part of the, there was a, what is it called?
• 39:52
  The Birthwork Collective.
• 39:54
  Okay.
• 39:54
  And it was a great group that just promoted
• 39:59
  for one of the things they promoted, one of the things was breastfeeding.
• 40:02
  And they would have workshops and they'd have a breastfeeding lab.
• 40:05
  People could come, ask questions.
• 40:07
  Mothers could talk.
• 40:08
  And yeah, you do see people where, if that's not their experience or if that's not what they were able to do, it's like, you know, well, and it's like, that's, you know, it's, I feel like we're in this day and age where you can't just talk about your experience.
• 40:27
  You know, and it's like, okay, well... You have to caveat everything.
• 40:31
  And it's something I refuse to do.
• 40:32
  Even, you know, we talk about sharing opinions.
• 40:35
  I only started sharing really about parenting and my style of parenting because before I took it for granted that we all knew the same thing, but we made choices based on our knowledge.
• 40:46
  And what I have come to learn is that we all have different experiences.
• 40:52
  We have different levels of exposure before we come to motherhood.
• 40:55
  And those things influence our decisions.
• 40:58
  And I was super naive before.
• 41:00
  I kind of just presumed everybody knew that cereal was bad, for example, right?
• 41:03
  Like I just presumed everyone knew that there was a lot of sugar in cereal.
• 41:07
  And so that if you were still feeding your child cereal, you were making an informed decision that despite knowing it was full of sugar, you wanted to do that.
• 41:16
  And I was like, okay, cool.
• 41:17
  I would never do that, but do you, right?
• 41:19
  And it's only through communicating with people that I realized it's not that they knew
• 41:24
  that the cereal was full of sugar.
• 41:26
  It's that they were fed cereal.
• 41:28
  And so that, again, going back to what you're saying about these ladies and their norm and the sitting, right, it can be applied to anything.
• 41:34
  That is how you are raised, and it's very easy for you to continue doing so without challenging these ideas.
• 41:42
  And it's a similar thing with feeding.
• 41:45
  I think that it's amazing that you had a support system because a lot of women say that if they had more support, and you might have guessed on progress feeding.
• 41:53
  Yeah.
• 41:53
  And I'm okay with that.
• 41:54
  And it doesn't, again, to be pro something doesn't mean you have to be anti.
• 41:57
  That's the other thing.
• 41:59
  That's the thing, yes.
• 42:00
  And I say that for everything.
• 42:02
  And I think that it's always funny to me when people, I would say, try to act as though just because I'm pro something, I'm anti something.
• 42:10
  But they don't take that with other areas, other topics.
• 42:15
  That's not the case.
• 42:16
  Yes.
• 42:16
  But there's a few select areas.
• 42:18
  You know, where if I say black lives matter, well, all lives matter.
• 42:22
  But if I say, you know, I'm doing this breast cancer awareness walk, no one says, well, what about stomach cancer?
• 42:33
  You know, it's like.
• 42:34
  That's a really good example.
• 42:35
  So it's they they understand it with other things, but people choose to not understand it when it comes to certain topics.
• 42:41
  Very true.
• 42:42
  I find that performative.
• 42:44
  Yeah.
• 42:44
  Yeah.
• 42:44
  You know, it's like you understand if I say, like, oh, I want to, if I'm getting my mom a Mother's Day gift, no one says, well, why didn't you get my mom a Mother's Day gift?
• 42:54
  Yes.
• 42:55
  You know, it's like, okay, you know, so...
• 43:00
  Take me back to LA.
• 43:01
  I'm very interested, because that might be my next stop.
• 43:04
  You know, so note, I had this background of being like a nerd.
• 43:11
  I was the smart girl my entire school career.
• 43:15
  You know, I was, well, I will say, OK, a very popular nerd.
• 43:21
  It was a strange.
• 43:23
  Sometimes I look back at photos with my mom.
• 43:25
  I remember one time specifically, we were flipping through photo albums, and I was like, Mom, it's just so funny that I didn't get teased.
• 43:35
  I'm like, I call her Mommy, and I was like, Mommy, look, look at me.
• 43:39
  And I'm showing, I'm like, Mommy, but look.
• 43:43
  Look at this.
• 43:44
  And I'm like, I don't, it's just crazy that I didn't get to, I was so popular in high school.
• 43:49
  And I just think it was because I was like, I don't know, like bubbly or I wasn't, you know, never the cute girl.
• 43:58
  I was also very slight, you know, I was, went from being short and thin to having a growth spurt and being tall and thin.
• 44:05
  Right.
• 44:07
  I remember when I was exactly 10 years old, the doctor told me I weighed with a five-year-old should weigh.
• 44:13
  I was exactly 50 pounds when I was 10.
• 44:15
  Wow.
• 44:16
  So I was quite underweight.
• 44:19
  I had, but I hadn't started to grow yet.
• 44:21
  I was just this little tiny thing, right?
• 44:23
  Then I got tall.
• 44:24
  Okay.
• 44:24
  And then I was, now I'm tall and thin, but I was like a skinny girl.
• 44:29
  You know, my nickname through school was Flakita.
• 44:33
  No, Flaka, everybody would say Flaka.
• 44:34
  Flaka, Flakita is like the skinny girl.
• 44:36
  Yes.
• 44:37
  But I had teachers calling me, even in my class ring it says Flaka.
• 44:40
  My teachers would call me Flaka.
• 44:41
  Did it give you a complex?
• 44:44
  I don't think it gave me a complex, but I knew it was part of my identity.
• 44:47
  I'll say that I was smart and I was skinny.
• 44:50
  That was my, it was intertwined into my identity.
• 44:54
  I would say, never was cute or, you know, pretty or sexy.
• 45:01
  Those weren't parts of my identity.
• 45:04
  until I got older.
• 45:07
  Okay.
• 45:07
  You know, I remember going to university, the glasses came off, right?
• 45:15
  I got contacts, right?
• 45:16
  And then I had braids throughout, like extensions, braids throughout my middle school and high school career.
• 45:24
  And then
• 45:26
  the braids came out and I was able to like perm my hair and it was like, oh, the hair was flowing, the glasses were off.
• 45:32
  Baby was ready.
• 45:33
  You know, it was like, it was a different vibe.
• 45:37
  So then that was college and then post-college, when I started modeling, it was like, okay, you're officially pretty.
• 45:45
  So it was very strange moving to L.A. as this, you know, no one knew the former me or, you know, or the 17-year-old me.
• 45:55
  They just knew, okay, well, you're here.
• 45:59
  You clearly are a model.
• 46:01
  And what's up?
• 46:02
  You know, that's kind of how it was.
• 46:04
  So it was very interesting to land in this place where...
• 46:10
  it's like currency, like your beauty was your currency, which was fine.
• 46:17
  For me, it was like, okay, well, this is interesting.
• 46:20
  You know, but people really did, just how you're saying you would step out of a club or a business or a building and it's like, hey, what are you, can I do?
• 46:28
  That's how it is.
• 46:29
  It's like, oh, okay, I forgot what prices were.
• 46:34
  So I remember my mom came to visit me and I was like, mommy, let's go see the movie because I lived walking distance from a theater, this plaza called The Grove.
• 46:42
  And they had shops and theater and food.
• 46:45
  And we walked across the street and I remember thinking, oh, my gosh, like movies are so expensive.
• 46:51
  And it's because I hadn't paid for a movie in I don't know how long.
• 46:55
  Right.
• 46:56
  I hadn't paid for dinner.
• 46:57
  And I just, it was like, you forgot because you were in a place where that's what men did.
• 47:05
  It was, even before we got to the point of like, okay, well now we're dating and now I want something from you.
• 47:11
  It was just like, okay, well, if I want to talk to you, if I even want to ask for your number, like we have to,
• 47:21
  we have to give you some type of gift.
• 47:23
  It's funny because when I go to move to England and I was having this conversation and I was saying that when the bill comes, I don't look at it because my dad used to always say, that's rude, it's not yours, what are you looking at it for?
• 47:37
  And this lady, so it's a group of us, and she said to me, April, I just thought you were progressive, right?
• 47:44
  Like how can you say that?
• 47:45
  And she was saying that her and her husband split the bill 50-50, her husband.
• 47:50
  And I was like, I said, OK, well, I don't think that I'm regressive just because we clearly have different cultural experiences.
• 47:58
  I was like in Jamaica, even if you're my friend.
• 48:01
  So it's not that there's any promise of potential intimacy.
• 48:05
  It's completely platonic.
• 48:07
  I am not paying.
• 48:08
  Like, I'm just not.
• 48:09
  It's not how I was raised.
• 48:11
  It's not how I have lived.
• 48:12
  And I don't think that that's regressive.
• 48:14
  I call it chivalry, right?
• 48:16
  Like, you're just being kind in a similar way that, and it's not necessarily always money.
• 48:20
  It might be when I go home, if I'm having a heavy suitcase, I'm not carrying the heavy suitcase.
• 48:25
  You are physically stronger than I am.
• 48:28
  Some man is going to come from somewhere
• 48:30
  And he's going to help me with my luggage.
• 48:32
  To me, that is civilized.
• 48:34
  That is a society that I wish to live in.
• 48:37
  Versus England, you would be at the train station struggling.
• 48:40
  There's not a lift.
• 48:41
  There's not an elevator.
• 48:42
  There's not an escalator.
• 48:43
  You are struggling.
• 48:44
  I used to do it from boarding school.
• 48:46
  So then I'm a child.
• 48:47
  And I'm struggling with this one suitcase up and down the stairs.
• 48:50
  And everybody's just walking.
• 48:52
  That's so funny.
• 48:54
  Because I, well, at least coming from the U.S.,
• 48:59
  this prior to, I guess, you know, living in LA, well maybe not including LA or some of those pockets, but I feel like this whole liberal mentality where things are getting more and more progressive, it can feel regressive.
• 49:13
  100%.
• 49:14
  Because I remember visiting London for the first time and I thought, wow.
• 49:19
  people are so like, look, there's real gentlemen.
• 49:21
  And I'm like, oh, and they got up from me on the train.
• 49:24
  Oh, that's lovely.
• 49:25
  It was like, wow.
• 49:26
  What year is this?
• 49:28
  Like 1970 or something?
• 49:31
  I think my first visit there must have been, oh my gosh.
• 49:35
  So I moved to LA in 2011.
• 49:39
  Okay.
• 49:41
  So shortly after that, I guess like maybe 2011 itself or 2012.
• 49:46
  And people are getting up for you.
• 49:47
  Yeah.
• 49:48
  Wow, you got it good, bitch.
• 49:50
  Now we're wearing pins to tell people we're pregnant and then they still won't get up.
• 49:53
  Oh my gosh, yeah.
• 49:55
  I thought, this is nice.
• 49:58
  People are really nice, you know?
• 50:01
  And I also know that as time goes on, I feel like a lot of women are telling people
• 50:10
  men that this is not what we want.
• 50:12
  This is not what we want.
• 50:13
  And I'm just kind of like, you need to talk for yourself.
• 50:16
  Like, why would I not want to have help if I'm carrying a 55-pound suitcase, you know, or a 25-kilo suitcase?
• 50:25
  People get upset when you open the door.
• 50:27
  It's so strange to me.
• 50:29
  And it also is, it's not what I'm accustomed to.
• 50:33
  And it's very, I think it's quite regressive, honestly.
• 50:39
  Yeah.
• 50:39
  That's all Bubba wanted.
• 50:43
  So when you go to L.A., you move there for how long?
• 50:46
  Oh, I was there for, so my first stint, I will say, I was there for, what, two and a half years, and then I moved to Europe.
• 50:58
  Okay.
• 50:58
  And then I moved around a bit, and then I came back.
• 51:02
  Modeling took you to Europe?
• 51:04
  Actually, no.
• 51:06
  I was dating a guy at the time who was from Spain.
• 51:10
  Okay.
• 51:11
  And I moved because of him.
• 51:14
  And I will say modeling kept me.
• 51:17
  Okay.
• 51:17
  But the initial move was because of that partner.
• 51:23
  And I remember thinking, like, okay.
• 51:27
  That's actually what ended up happening.
• 51:29
  I thought to myself, okay, what happens?
• 51:31
  Like, what will happen if we don't work out?
• 51:33
  Okay.
• 51:34
  Like, what will I do?
• 51:36
  And it came to a point in time where we didn't work out.
• 51:39
  And I had the decision to make, like, okay, am I going to go back to L.A. or the States in general?
• 51:46
  Or am I going to try to make it work here?
• 51:49
  And that's what I did.
• 51:50
  Because that was my, although I had left the States and I was living abroad, I wasn't, I hadn't figured out how to do it by myself.
• 52:00
  And at that moment I had to revamp and replan and pivot.
• 52:06
  When you choose to make that move with your partner at the time, what is going through your mind?
• 52:11
  Is it just exciting?
• 52:13
  Or is there trepidation?
• 52:14
  Is there, oh my gosh, I'm leaving my family?
• 52:17
  Well, I already was
• 52:20
  Halfway across the world.
• 52:21
  Yeah.
• 52:21
  America's massive.
• 52:22
  Yes.
• 52:23
  I was already thousands of miles away from my family.
• 52:25
  Right.
• 52:25
  You know, I was already a six-hour flight away from my family.
• 52:29
  So it was kind of like they could either fly six hours to go to L.A. or they could fly six hours and come see me in Spain.
• 52:34
  Right.
• 52:35
  And, you know, and also...
• 52:41
  You know, people have their own lives and circumstances, and that's one thing what started me into the travel world because I had to get so good at solo traveling because I saw that when I was in the States, in LA, people didn't come see me, you know, not that they didn't want to, but a lot of times it's just schedules and finances and lives and,
• 53:07
  It just doesn't happen, you know.
• 53:09
  What part of Spain were you in?
• 53:11
  I was in Donostia San Sebastián.
• 53:13
  Okay.
• 53:14
  So the Basque is in the Basque country, Uscalería.
• 53:16
  What's life like there?
• 53:17
  Life is different.
• 53:20
  I will say this.
• 53:22
  Spain is not, you know, as a young black girl who was pretty much by herself for the majority of the time, Spain is not a very welcoming place.
• 53:35
  Okay.
• 53:35
  Okay.
• 53:36
  I will also say that my experience in Spain was really, really wonderful, and I owe that mainly to the African community that was there.
• 53:46
  Okay.
• 53:47
  I have such good memories of Spain.
• 53:50
  One of my best friends is there.
• 53:52
  Her son is my godson.
• 53:55
  Hi, Miguel Ángel.
• 53:56
  And...
• 53:59
  Yes, just they really took me in, and it was like I had a family, you know, weeks after arriving.
• 54:06
  Because when I was still in the visiting phase of dating this guy, I had met one girl, and that girl really changed my entire life there.
• 54:17
  Because her friends, her family, her unit became my unit.
• 54:21
  And, um...
• 54:23
  Yeah.
• 54:23
  What was the language barrier or was there none?
• 54:26
  Well, because I speak Spanish.
• 54:28
  Did you speak Spanish before?
• 54:29
  Yes.
• 54:30
  Okay.
• 54:30
  Yes.
• 54:30
  So that was easy.
• 54:32
  Do you think you would have moved to Spain had you not spoken the language?
• 54:36
  I know I would have.
• 54:37
  Okay.
• 54:37
  I know I would have, but that's just me.
• 54:41
  Because I do like being challenged.
• 54:46
  I've always, not always, but at some point I,
• 54:51
  I was pretty clear on the fact that, man, I really want to live in a place where they just don't speak English.
• 54:57
  You know, I feel like my brain cells are just being wasted if I'm in an English-speaking country, because I feel like I'm, I don't know, my brain is just firing if I'm,
• 55:10
  in a place where they speak something.
• 55:12
  They gotta speak something else.
• 55:13
  If it's English and something, if it's English and Swahili, if it's English and Zulu, something.
• 55:18
  But I need something other than constantly just hearing the known.
• 55:25
  Being with the known, around the known, it's, I think, not just that it bores me, it bores my brain.
• 55:34
  Excuse me.
• 55:35
  Yeah, I feel
• 55:38
  Like my brain just needs more activity.
• 55:40
  I don't know.
• 55:41
  So I know I would have moved.
• 55:43
  So for living in Spain, how do you think you were different at that time?
• 55:48
  Cause you're still very young at this time, right?
• 55:49
  When you're going to Spain.
• 55:51
  And I appreciate that you've been living away from home up until this point.
• 55:54
  But how do you think?
• 55:56
  Of course, baby.
• 55:57
  So yeah, so being in Spain, I'm just wondering how did that change your character?
• 56:02
  Okay.
• 56:04
  I don't know if it changed my character per se.
• 56:09
  I think I did start to become more aware of just cultural differences, whether that was between like Americans and Europeans or, and then also as I spent more time in Europe,
• 56:24
  I started noticing difference between like, okay, these are the Spanish, these are the Italians, okay, the French are like this, okay, the British are, it started kind of, I started being aware of cultural norms because they're very different, like just going from country to country and region to region even.
• 56:48
  Can you explain some of those moments or realizations where you're like, oh, this is different?
• 56:54
  Mm-hmm.
• 56:57
  Like Germans, per se, are, you know, the stereotype is that they are quite, you know, systematic, cold.
• 57:07
  And it's true, you know, as a norm, not saying every single human German that is alive, but...
• 57:16
  However, as a cultural norm, they are a lot more rigid, you know, systematic, and that can come across as cold to someone coming from an environment like, you know, Italy, you know, where the Italians are very, you know, very warm and very hot-blooded and just like, you know, lovey and kisses.
• 57:35
  And it's a very different culture.
• 57:38
  And so I started noticing that, like, okay, yes, this is how I am received here versus there.
• 57:45
  And also I started noticing that my experiences, even as, you know,
• 57:53
  Uh-oh.
• 57:54
  Sorry.
• 57:55
  That's fine.
• 57:56
  Oh, okay.
• 57:56
  I thought this was...
• 57:59
  Even as a black woman in Spain, and I had friends who were other black women in Spain, our experiences were quite different because I was a black American.
• 58:08
  Okay.
• 58:08
  And that meant something to the Spanish, to the Spaniards.
• 58:13
  There were times where I would be in a supermarket or in a shop buying something, and the clerk could be,
• 58:23
  ice cold, you know, almost like annoyed that I'm there.
• 58:27
  And then when I'm paying and you would, if you're paying with cards, you would normally take out your ID in Spain and you would take out your identification.
• 58:35
  So for me, that's my passport.
• 58:37
  If I would take out my passport, I mean, that demeanor would change abruptly from cold to,
• 58:46
  my goodness, you're from, you're from Estados Unidos.
• 58:49
  Okay.
• 58:50
  Oh, wow.
• 58:51
  Okay.
• 58:52
  So you're visiting or you, it's like, okay, but I was the same black woman in front of you five seconds ago.
• 59:00
  But now that you see the passport, it's like, oh, okay.
• 59:02
  You're not, you're not an African here to mucho of our system.
• 59:07
  You're visiting.
• 59:07
  Oh, you must be visiting.
• 59:08
  How do you like Spain?
• 59:10
  Like, how do you like it?
• 59:10
  Do you like Donostia?
• 59:13
  Okay.
• 59:13
  It's like completely that
• 59:16
  frequently.
• 59:17
  Wow.
• 59:18
  You know, to where people were like, oh, okay, well, you're fine.
• 59:22
  You know, you're okay because you're a black American.
• 59:25
  So you started noticing things like that where it's just like, okay, so it's not just the race.
• 59:32
  It's not just the skin color.
• 59:33
  It's the connotation that comes along with being from this place or that or the xenophobia.
• 59:41
  It's funny because going to school in New York, I felt like there were moments where I received the opposite message.
• 59:47
  So I remember once being at Penn Station and they were stopping and searching basically every black person's bag.
• 59:54
  And I was like, you're not going to search my bag.
• 59:58
  And the police officer was immediately like, what?
• 1:00:01
  And again, it's probably the Jamaican, like feisty, can't mess with me kind of energy, even though you probably could.
• 1:00:10
  But I was like, you're not searching my bag.
• 1:00:12
  You have no reason to.
• 1:00:13
  There is nothing that I have done that has given you
• 1:00:16
  like probable cause there's you're just not searching my bag.
• 1:00:18
  I was like, I will call a lawyer before you.
• 1:00:20
  So I mean, which lawyer I was planning on calling?
• 1:00:22
  I have no idea, but it sounded like the right thing to say.
• 1:00:24
  Yes.
• 1:00:24
  And there was this immediate thing of, oh, you're not African American.
• 1:00:29
  And they didn't search my bag.
• 1:00:30
  Right.
• 1:00:30
  And I was able to talk my way out of it.
• 1:00:32
  And that's just like one circumstance where I feel it's not just not being African American, but I think when you are not brought up
• 1:00:41
  in an environment where you're constantly being chiseled away at, you can carry a certain level of energy that is less compliant, let's say.
• 1:00:56
  Because it's a luxury that you've been brought up in a country where you are the majority.
• 1:01:02
  You also sit in a particular circle in that country.
• 1:01:05
  And it kind of emboldens you to stand up when you feel that there is a potential injustice.
• 1:01:11
  In a way that if you're constantly being picked at, picked at, picked at, it's harder to do so.
• 1:01:16
  Definitely, yeah.
• 1:01:17
  And I see it here even.
• 1:01:19
  I've seen it in several countries on the continent, in Africa, where it's just like...
• 1:01:27
  There's a, I don't know, there's a submissiveness.
• 1:01:35
  Sometimes when, especially when you see many Africans deal with, whether it's white or Indian, non-black, there's kind of this submissiveness where it's almost like they've been told for too long that you all are not on the same level.
• 1:01:51
  And in a place like South Africa, that's literally been told to them.
• 1:01:54
  You know, where, but I see it in Kenya.
• 1:01:58
  In Kenya, it was also very prevalent where, you know, if there's a foreigner and they say something or request something, it's just like, oh, okay, you know, I'm sorry.
• 1:02:11
  And I'm like,
• 1:02:13
  huh?
• 1:02:14
  But why are you, like, their whole demeanor is as if this person is more than them or if they are less than.
• 1:02:24
  You know, it's one thing to have a conversation or argument or dispute when we're on even ground.
• 1:02:32
  But to...
• 1:02:34
  have that same conversation or argument even or dispute with someone who believes, not that they are, but that they believe that they are not on the same footing as you.
• 1:02:44
  It's sad to see almost.
• 1:02:49
  There's been times where I've had to speak up on the behalf of someone else because I'm like, okay, they're clearly not going to say something, but I am.
• 1:02:59
  Yeah, I really am not a fan of
• 1:03:03
  you know, what I would consider to be injustice.
• 1:03:06
  Cause I think we can, and that's part of my whole thing with conscious travel.
• 1:03:10
  It's like, you know, there's traveling and there are a lot of times the traveling can lead to being almost like exploitative.
• 1:03:20
  Right.
• 1:03:20
  If we allow it to, because we are going into areas and we have the ability to go into areas and locations where there is, there's unequal footing for a lot of people.
• 1:03:34
  So how we show up in these different countries, it can mean the world of difference to a lot of locals.
• 1:03:42
  When do you decide to leave Europe?
• 1:03:45
  I actually left Europe and ended up going to the Caribbean.
• 1:03:51
  So when I parted ways with my ex, I stayed.
• 1:03:58
  Right.
• 1:03:59
  Stayed in Spain for a while.
• 1:04:00
  Then I ended up moving to England.
• 1:04:03
  briefly so that was my experience there and then um i actually with another another ex moved to to um the caribbean okay so he was from the caribbean yes he was from okay yes how was you then
• 1:04:20
  I loved it.
• 1:04:21
  It was so funny because people would, if I were even going there, you know, sometimes he would be there and let's say I would travel to the States and come back.
• 1:04:29
  Oh, you're going by yourself?
• 1:04:31
  You're going to, you're going flying into Port of Spain?
• 1:04:35
  You by yourself?
• 1:04:37
  No, it's dangerous.
• 1:04:39
  Oh, really?
• 1:04:39
  You have to be careful.
• 1:04:40
  It's dangerous.
• 1:04:41
  I'm like, okay, thank you.
• 1:04:43
  But, you know, I have family there at this point.
• 1:04:46
  It's like, you know, my people.
• 1:04:49
  But it was very interesting because, I mean, like, the murder rate was crazy.
• 1:04:55
  You know, it was just like we're hearing day after day, this shooting, this murder, like they were counting.
• 1:05:00
  I remember one time once it hit New Year's, they were just doing a count.
• 1:05:05
  You know, it's been five days, six deaths, you know, eight days, nine deaths.
• 1:05:09
  It was just like...
• 1:05:11
  I didn't know Trinidad had that.
• 1:05:12
  I knew that they had a kidnapping reputation.
• 1:05:15
  But I didn't know that they had.
• 1:05:16
  I think I'm just so used to people constantly telling me about Kingston that I probably just don't hear about anything else.
• 1:05:22
  And even that, it's like when you're from a place, that's the thing.
• 1:05:26
  It's like not to discredit anyone else's experience, but your experience is your own.
• 1:05:31
  And I can never say that.
• 1:05:35
  You know, I had any issues.
• 1:05:37
  And I'll always... That's always going to be my story because that was my experience.
• 1:05:41
  So, however, I do know people who, yeah, have been...
• 1:05:47
  Affected by crime in Trinidad.
• 1:05:50
  I also...
• 1:05:52
  I don't know.
• 1:05:52
  I feel like with crime...
• 1:05:54
  I feel like Chicago, honestly, is one of the worst places for crime because you don't have to be doing anything.
• 1:05:59
  You don't have to be a part of that world.
• 1:06:03
  It can be wrong place, wrong time.
• 1:06:05
  Very much so.
• 1:06:06
  Okay.
• 1:06:06
  In Chicago, I mean, people will like...
• 1:06:10
  You know, not that there's a lot of I feel like there's a lot of places.
• 1:06:15
  I don't know.
• 1:06:15
  Tell me if Jamaica is like this.
• 1:06:18
  If you're in if you're into crime, then you're in crime.
• 1:06:24
  You know, and I feel like it's kind of left at that in many cities.
• 1:06:27
  Yes.
• 1:06:27
  In Chicago, someone will kill your your grandma.
• 1:06:32
  To get to you.
• 1:06:33
  Just so that you come to the funeral and they can kill you.
• 1:06:36
  Okay.
• 1:06:37
  You know, Chicago is very, like, just, like, lawless, like, heartless.
• 1:06:43
  You know, you hear, and we also have a culture of, like, these drive-by shootings.
• 1:06:47
  So to where it's just kind of like, if they're in this house or if they're in this vicinity, if they're in this block, just shoot up, just shoot it all up.
• 1:06:54
  Okay.
• 1:06:54
  And so it's just careless, you know?
• 1:06:56
  So you have many stories of, like, babies getting killed.
• 1:07:01
  Really?
• 1:07:01
  You know, six-month-old, three-month-old, you know, this, you know, five-year-old from school walking.
• 1:07:07
  Yes, because there's a big, that's very prevalent drive-bys where it's just everyone's, you're all at risk.
• 1:07:14
  Wow.
• 1:07:14
  You know, so.
• 1:07:15
  Do you think having had...
• 1:07:18
  seen, heard, you know, had some experience of that kind of crime, do you think that that made you less fearful to travel?
• 1:07:26
  The reason I ask is because whenever I hear people talk about destinations and, you know, blanket brush of the entire country and they say, oh, it's so dangerous, I think because...
• 1:07:38
  I'm from Jamaica and I have experienced people do that to my country.
• 1:07:43
  And then my experience, like you say, your individual experience on the ground, not matching that public hysteria.
• 1:07:50
  I think it makes me, not that I'm fearless,
• 1:07:54
  but I don't grab a headline and hold on to it.
• 1:07:57
  You know what I mean?
• 1:07:57
  I'm more curious to hear from people who are actually on the ground, to hear what their experiences are before I take like a news headline and say, well, I'm not going there.
• 1:08:07
  Same.
• 1:08:08
  And would you say that that's the same for you?
• 1:08:09
  Definitely.
• 1:08:10
  Same.
• 1:08:10
  Okay.
• 1:08:12
  Yes, because you just...
• 1:08:17
  I often see that a lot of times people are...
• 1:08:21
  Themselves, they are fearful.
• 1:08:22
  And you can have people from that place, from that country, from that city, and they still won't go have dinner in this area or go out in this area because they're like, oh, well, I don't want to be affected.
• 1:08:37
  So I don't know.
• 1:08:39
  People, they do put their fears off on you oftentimes.
• 1:08:43
  I know that with...
• 1:08:45
  in the African American community in general, you know, we traditionally are very, like, don't go over there.
• 1:08:55
  You know people over there?
• 1:08:56
  Well, don't go over there, then you don't know anybody over there.
• 1:08:59
  And it took me a while to realize, like, okay, well, it makes sense because that's, we had to be that way.
• 1:09:05
  for a long time because it was dangerous for us to travel without knowing people or having someone or having a place to stay, having a house to go to.
• 1:09:14
  You know, we come from a history to where, you know, that's what it was during the Jim Crow era.
• 1:09:21
  If you went to, you got too far outside of your little neighborhood, you very easily could be lynched and murdered.
• 1:09:28
  Right.
• 1:09:28
  So that's what our ancestors had to experience.
• 1:09:33
  And that's their reference point.
• 1:09:34
  So we have a lot of our older folks who are telling us, be careful, be weary, be leery, because that was their reality.
• 1:09:46
  And I appreciate those warnings, but I also know that we are not in the exact same time.
• 1:09:54
  We do have to worry about some of the same things, but this is not the same era of our ancestors.
• 1:10:04
  This is not the same era of even our parents.
• 1:10:07
  So I try to use these things to the technology of this of this period to our advantage.
• 1:10:14
  We have a wonderful tool in the Internet.
• 1:10:18
  We have a wonderful tool in the media.
• 1:10:20
  There's things that we can use to make travel more safe.
• 1:10:24
  And I'm of the mindset to where I'm going to do the same traveling or do the traveling that was not done before and just make it as advantageous to myself as possible and as safe as possible.
• 1:10:38
  And most of my traveling at this point I've been to...
• 1:10:42
  I don't know, 51 countries have visited, I believe, 51 or 52 countries.
• 1:10:49
  And the majority of those have been as a solo traveler.
• 1:10:53
  How are you choosing your travel?
• 1:10:55
  I appreciate for the big moves there for love.
• 1:10:58
  But how are we choosing for the destinations that you're going to by yourself?
• 1:11:02
  Oftentimes, it's just...
• 1:11:04
  You know, I could read something.
• 1:11:06
  I could see something.
• 1:11:08
  It could have been something I saw, you know, as a child even.
• 1:11:11
  And, like, I'm like, oh, I want to go.
• 1:11:12
  You know, or, oh, this, or just so many things.
• 1:11:15
  Sometimes it's like a restaurant, honestly, where I'm like, oh, I've got to go there.
• 1:11:21
  And I'm a big advocate for, like, broke travel, you know, obviously.
• 1:11:26
  One time I saw an Instagram, I don't know, a reel or whatever.
• 1:11:30
  It might have been on YouTube, I forget.
• 1:11:31
  But I saw a clip where these guys were talking about some girls that they had seen.
• 1:11:39
  And I guess the girl had said, like, oh, I've been to all these countries.
• 1:11:45
  And their assumption, they were like, oh, I don't want to hear that because that means that, you know, some man is taking her to these countries.
• 1:11:52
  And that's how she's getting there.
• 1:11:53
  And it's just like, oh, I don't want to hear that.
• 1:11:55
  That's disgusting.
• 1:11:56
  And I was thinking, that's what they think.
• 1:11:59
  You know, and not to say that, like, yes, if I have a partner, I'm going to go to a country with my partner.
• 1:12:04
  That's fine.
• 1:12:05
  That's expected.
• 1:12:05
  But for the assumption to be that if you're in an exotic location by yourself, it's because, you know, you're there with a man.
• 1:12:14
  Right.
• 1:12:14
  And I found that for myself, there's so many places I've just gone and I'm like, I'm not, you know, I'm not staying at the Ritz.
• 1:12:22
  I'm not staying at the Four Seasons.
• 1:12:23
  I'm in a hostel and I'm seeing the country by myself.
• 1:12:28
  You know, with my money and my two feet and a backpack, you know, and I really want to advocate for, you know, I would say broke travel.
• 1:12:39
  I don't know how else to not even budget.
• 1:12:43
  There's some places where I went to where I'm still actively like I probably shouldn't be taking this trip, but I'm going to make it work.
• 1:12:50
  It's the right time.
• 1:12:51
  The ticket was just that cheap.
• 1:12:52
  I'm going, you know, and I.
• 1:12:57
  I think the more experiences that you have traveling, especially when you're younger, I just, I want people to not wait until every trip doesn't have to be like that luxury diva trip once you, you know, hit your like 50th, 60th birthday.
• 1:13:15
  It's like, that's great.
• 1:13:16
  Take that trip as well.
• 1:13:19
  Also, take the trips where you're just exploring.
• 1:13:24
  You know, you don't have, you might not be able to do all of the same things, but you're seeing, you're at all of those sites with the same, you know, divas trip where everybody paid $15,000 for.
• 1:13:34
  Right.
• 1:13:35
  And you could have paid $1,000.
• 1:13:38
  Like seriously, I remember their trips, I've literally saved $900,000, I've taken the whole trip and come back.
• 1:13:45
  Okay.
• 1:13:45
  Flight to flight.
• 1:13:47
  You know, and if the country, if you choose a country that's cheap enough, affordable enough, you can have a great time.
• 1:13:53
  You're literally in all the same places, you're seeing the same sites, you're making the same memories, you're taking the same photos.
• 1:14:00
  The hotel might not be the same.
• 1:14:02
  But you went there.
• 1:14:05
  Was there ever a trip where you were like, babes, I took this broke trip a little bit too far?
• 1:14:10
  Never.
• 1:14:10
  Okay.
• 1:14:11
  Never.
• 1:14:12
  Never.
• 1:14:12
  It's like you, I mean, yes, it's like you're, when you think about it even, right, you're on the same plane.
• 1:14:19
  Right.
• 1:14:20
  Your seat might be number 30 versus number three.
• 1:14:24
  Then you get off, you go to your respective hotels, and then what do you do once you get there?
• 1:14:29
  You put your stuff down and you go.
• 1:14:32
  You know, normally, unless, I mean, I get it if you're on like a honeymoon, you're going to, there's a reason why you're in the room a lot of the time.
• 1:14:38
  But it's like, if I'm here by myself, like, I'm not in that room.
• 1:14:41
  You know, I'm out.
• 1:14:42
  I feel you.
• 1:14:43
  I'm 50% there.
• 1:14:44
  I think because... And I agree with you in the sense that you don't spend that much time in the hotel room, right?
• 1:14:50
  Like, if you're going to see a new place.
• 1:14:52
  Right.
• 1:14:53
  Especially if we're talking about solo travel.
• 1:14:54
  Right.
• 1:14:56
  However, I'm thinking, like, the other day I checked into an Airbnb and I had to leave, right?
• 1:15:02
  I had to leave just because...
• 1:15:04
  The smell, it just had like a certain odor.
• 1:15:07
  Like moldy.
• 1:15:07
  Yeah, it just was a bit musty.
• 1:15:11
  The bed had a stain on the sheet.
• 1:15:14
  The glass door to the bedroom had a crack in it.
• 1:15:18
  And I was sitting there and I called my father and I'm like...
• 1:15:22
  dad, I don't know why I'm here, I don't really like it.
• 1:15:25
  And the reviews were 4.8 star.
• 1:15:27
  Wow.
• 1:15:27
  It wasn't particularly cheap, it just had a pool and that was the main thing I was looking for.
• 1:15:31
  And I was just like, but it just, there was carpet in the bedroom and I'm like, it's 2026, why is there a carpet in the room?
• 1:15:37
  And maybe that's contributing to that mustiness because maybe it hasn't been cleaned.
• 1:15:41
  I never wanted to sit in the coach.
• 1:15:43
  And I was just like, yeah.
• 1:15:44
  And my dad was like, why are you there?
• 1:15:46
  Just leave.
• 1:15:47
  Just go find somewhere else and just leave.
• 1:15:49
  And so part of me is like agreeing with you in the sense that don't allow the idea of what you think the trip needs to be to rob you of that experience.
• 1:15:59
  Right.
• 1:16:00
  But then another part of me is like, babes.
• 1:16:03
  I need to have a particular kind of environment in order to enjoy it.
• 1:16:08
  And I wish I didn't.
• 1:16:09
  Well, no, I will say you're if it's if you're no longer comfortable, then you're not comfortable, right?
• 1:16:15
  If it's not if you're not comfortable to me, that translates to it's not enjoyable.
• 1:16:19
  Right.
• 1:16:20
  So whatever you're doing, whether it's, you know, traveling, you know, restaurant, whatever, if you're not comfortable, stop.
• 1:16:28
  Okay.
• 1:16:28
  You know, that that's my my take.
• 1:16:32
  That being said, some of the nicest hostels I've been in have been like, I'm not exaggerating when I say like $8 a night.
• 1:16:42
  Oh, wow.
• 1:16:42
  Japan specifically, I remember being in several hostels.
• 1:16:45
  Now, Japan is... You can do Japan for cheap?
• 1:16:48
  Yes.
• 1:16:48
  Really?
• 1:16:49
  Really?