Latest / Dead Serious / Remembering Robert: A Sister's Heartbreaking Journey

Transcript

Remembering Robert: A Sister's Heartbreaking Journey · Dead Serious

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Dead Serious, a true crime podcast.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, James Murray.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast contains mature themes.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Your discretion is advised.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: Today's episode, we're doing something a little different.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I had someone reach out to me through DMs asking to share their story or their story of their missing brother and what happened there.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I just want to introduce you guys to Lori.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for coming on and wanting to get this story out there.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: I thank you so much for having me.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so grateful that I want to be a voice from my brother.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: You are absolutely welcome.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's great to have you here.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: How about you start with who is your brother?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_04: My brother is Robert Byrne.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_04: And um, when he was murdered, he was 28.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_04: And he had a girlfriend that he loved, and she had two daughters that he loved.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_04: He he finally had a family.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, his life was taken from him.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_04: He deserves justice.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_04: And and what's even worse is his body hasn't been recovered.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_04: So he didn't even get a proper burial to rest in peace.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's so terrible.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: And um when did he go missing?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: It was in August 1995.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_04: I don't even know the date, I just know it was early August.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I guess kind of like let's go back to the beginning of who Robert was as your brother, like as kids and growing up, like who was he?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: Well, unfortunately, our home was completely dysfunctional.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_04: So we didn't have any normalcy, virtually any normalcy when we were very young.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_04: So we, you know, we spent a lot of time in our rooms or outside playing, which was good.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_04: But Robert was really quiet, and my mother was not bonded to him at all.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_04: What is your age difference?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_04: Four years.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_04: Four years.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: So Robert didn't have his mama's love, and not that there was much love to get, but it's just he was just rejected from her pretty much since he was born.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_04: Well, since he was born.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: And why is that?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_04: Well when my mom had my brother, um, he was jaundice, and so he spent time in the hospital.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_04: And and so when he came home, every time my mom picked him up, he would cry.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_04: So my mom didn't want to hold him, so she just wanted nothing to do with him.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_04: And and we talked about this later on, my mother and I later on in life.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_04: The nurses probably only picked him up just to take his blood.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_04: So obviously, if if Robert as an infant thinks that he's going to be in pain, he's going to cry.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_04: And so my mother just couldn't deal with it.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_04: So there was no bonding.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's so sad.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: Then getting into say more like later the years, like teen years, how was it then since you're four years apart, he's obviously he's kind of able to go out and do more, and you're kind of still at home?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_04: Well, when Robert was 11, my mom moved out, and dad moved in.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_04: So the disfunction, as bad as it was with mom, and believe me, it was bad.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_04: It got worse in a different way with dad.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_04: A lot worse.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: My dad, you know, didn't have any holidays.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_04: At least my mom, we had some holidays, and even though they were horribly, it was, you know, she was drunk and out of control, but at least there was something.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_04: But so we had nothing.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_04: And then my dad was just oh god, I don't even know how to describe him.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's just he he became he he loved Robert to what he was capable of when Robert was younger, but then when Robert got a little older, he just didn't, and I didn't realize this until, of course, much, much later.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_04: So dad still loved Robert some, and you know, he bought him some gifts, but he he was not loved, and then there was another person in the home, another child in the home, and dad favored this one.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_04: So Robert, you know, you know, had a few material things, but he had no love, no support system, and um, and of course, I was the abused one at the time.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: It was just so dysfunctional, too, and just such a it's like and then you know, Robert got a girlfriend.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_04: But here's the thing my dad isolated Robert and like all of us, but but Robert he sabotaged him from a young age.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_04: He didn't go to school, you know, he was homeschooled for a while, and then there was absolutely no school, like none of us went to school, and then Robert, when he was a little older, like I said, he got a girlfriend, Robert got a job, but I guess my dad sabotaged that too.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_04: And only in the last year did I I was because I try to put these things together make sense of it.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_04: Dad may have been jealous of Robert because Robert was so handsome and smart, yeah, incredibly gifted musically, like he was gonna go out there and do something.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: When did your parents divorce?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: I was probably about eight.
• 5:50
  unknown: Okay.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, about probably about eight.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, because my mom cheated on dad.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, okay, and had the man's baby.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, all right.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_04: Is that when she moved out basically?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think so at first.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: But then then she then she did, not immediately, but then she did.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_04: She moved out with one of her boyfriends.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't the the man that she had the baby with.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, the man that she had a baby with was with my dad's brother.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, all right.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, I can see how that's gonna cause a lot of problems.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_04: That could.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_04: So then mom moved out with a boyfriend for what for about a year, and then she moved back in.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_04: But then when she she she ended up marrying that man, and then and then you divorced, that's when dad moved in.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_04: She moved out and dad moved in, and that's when I was 15.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, a lot.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_03: So you're in California, right?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I was wondering about the homeschooling thing.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think California is pretty is it they're pretty loose about that, right?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: There because there's some states that they're really serious about like checking up on kids.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I just because I I'm in Texas and I think I think they're actually loose about it here.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe California might be more strict.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_04: Well, all I know it wasn't, it was, it was the man that was home, you know, that Robert, it was a man from the actual public school that would come over, but he only came over like once a week.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't really homeschooled like from the school.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_04: And then somehow my dad got everybody out of school, like Robert and then the other child.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_04: Don't know how he did it.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_04: Robert was the other child was 12.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_04: And so Robert was 16.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_04: So one of my questions that I'll never have an answer to.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_04: I guess because it's nobody to re nobody reported it.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody, we had no one.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: We had not an adult around.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: It always it's always shocking to me when I hear about you know, kids who, you know, they're taken out of school and and literally nobody knows what's going on.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I always find that crazy.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's no um accountability.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: There's, you know, I don't know.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: I just it's just kind of crazy.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: Robert might may have been saved if we had someone that turned out for you.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: I would agree.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: So you mentioned um that he was into the guitar.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, what what did he what were his hobbies?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: What did he like?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: Or was that that was it?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: That was it.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: Was it and he was he was like a genius on it.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_04: He was amazing.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_04: I couldn't even tell if it was the stereo or Robert.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_04: I remember walking by his room.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_04: I thought, oh, Van Halen's on the stereo, but it was Robert.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_04: That's awesome.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: So when is the last time that you spoke with him?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_04: I spoke with him when he called me.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_04: I'm going to guess between two and four months before he was murdered.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: Was he so you both live in California or lived in California, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_04: Far from each other or not that far.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_04: But unfortunately, I wasn't seeing my brother because I didn't know that my dad separated us.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_04: He was like triangulation.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I didn't know anything about that until the last several years.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_04: But I said, that's what my dad did.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_04: He would tell me things about Robert.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm positive he told Robert things about me.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like he knowing my dad, he probably said, Oh, she doesn't want to see you and all this.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, that breaks my heart because that wasn't even true.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_04: And he stupid me believing everything I heard.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's her dad, right?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_04: Why are you why would you not believe it?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_04: It just it adds to the tragedy of this.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: Because, you know, maybe I could have saved my brother.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: You didn't you didn't know.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's nothing you you can't do anything if you if you don't know anything, and that's that's not your fault.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I found out what was going on at that house from his friends about three years ago.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_04: I got a message from a former girlfriend of his.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: And that message on Facebook led to me finding Robert's friends.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so I started getting more information.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_04: Because I was I was searching for answers because I said it doesn't look like we're getting any kind of justice here.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_04: So I was like, if I can't get any justice, I at least want to know as much as I can.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_04: And I'll tell you what, his answers were absolutely devastating and heartbreaking.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_04: And it made it all worse, but I had to know.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: So he's living with a girlfriend who has children at the time.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: Who reported him missing and when?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: I did.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: When did you first realize something was wrong?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_04: When his girlfriend showed up at my door in summer of 1995, but I I didn't realize uh the severity of it.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I was, I was also unfortunately, it wasn't a great time.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_04: I was pregnant, I had extreme morning sickness, and I was exhausted because the air conditioner wasn't working.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: It was summer, and it's just it I just didn't know.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, I'm going to ask my dad.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of the things I can't remember, but there's some things that, of course, I can't forget.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_04: I remember going to my dad's house and telling him, Dad, we have to hire a private investigator, Robert Smithson.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_04: But he was just so calm, no, you know, just all calm and collected.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I didn't panic.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_04: But I remember talking to my mom constantly.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: And my mom was talking to me and where could Robert go?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_04: But then I had a miscarriage.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: So sorry.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_04: And then my boyfriend killed himself.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that was in December of 95.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was a mess.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_04: So I obviously, in hindsight, should have got to the police station sooner, but with all that going on, I couldn't.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_04: But you know who the real responsible person should have been was his mother.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_04: And was she concerned?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, she was.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_04: We were we were talking all the time.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_04: Where's Robert?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_04: And that's the weird part.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_04: I thought about this not that long ago.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, why didn't my mom go to the police?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_04: My mom read true crime books.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_04: She she was aware of things.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_04: So I I I I'll never get an answer to that either.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway, I finally got there.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_04: And because I was I was practically bedridden, I had a little boy, and I could it took everything in me to take care of him.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: You know, just live on Pepsi and chocolate, just to survive, and and I'd I'd go to church.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_04: That's basically all I could do, just get him to school, go to church on Wednesday and Sunday, just to cope.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_04: And the rest of the time, I was in bed.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I'd get, you know, get up to feed my son, of course.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_04: Just just the bare minimum.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_04: Because I just couldn't help it.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_04: Because, you know, when I thought about this too, the reason I took it even harder than I normally would have is because that was one of my biggest fears in life.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_04: Because my mother was suicidal growing up.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_04: And so it was one of it was my biggest fear that somebody I love is going to kill themselves.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_04: And then it happened.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_04: I could not take it.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's a crazy thought to have to write your life thinking that.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I did, but that's exactly what I did.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember telling him about it.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_04: He he threatened it once.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_04: I said, How could you do that to me?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_04: You know, my mom did that growing, how could you do that?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's really hard.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: All of this is, you know, just kind of one after the other happening is very traumatic.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_04: And so it was But I have to share the story because to hopefully get people to care that want to help me.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because this isn't uh, you know, a missing person.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's active, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: There's yes.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: So you're trying to get anybody who will listen to listen and and spread the word.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, I get that for sure.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: So at the time of his missing you of him going missing, you hadn't talked to hadn't been talking to him for a while, right?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I didn't see him for years.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: For years, okay.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_04: And then he got then he called me.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I did drop off.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_04: Luckily, I'm so grateful I did it so.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: He asked me the first thing he asked me was, Did you drop off a birthday present for me?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I did, I didn't take it to him because my dad made me scared.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he made me scared of my brothers at all these things.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_04: And dad knew exactly how to play me, but I didn't know that.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_04: So I just put it in his mailbox, some gifts I had.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: So you did brief briefly speak to him then?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, on the phone.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yeah, on the phone phone.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: On the phone, okay, on the phone.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: So you did have okay yeah.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_04: So and then uh he just asked me a question, right?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_04: And unfortunately, the question he asked me had to do with my dad, and it caught dad in a lie because that's why dad separated because he knew I'd tell the truth to Robert, and dad didn't want Robert to know what he was up to, you know.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_04: I can't go into that too much why there's a reason, but yeah, so we caught dad in a lie.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: All right, so he's reported a missing, and what was the initial response from the sheriff's department when you reported him missing?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I was just he just didn't seem to re you know, it was standard.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_04: I just gave my brother's name and whatever else I said, but I do know he asked me about Robert's scars, and I knew Robert had scars because he was almost killed in a dirt bike accident.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_04: He was 15.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_04: After I left the PlayStation, I planned on calling my mom and then letting him know.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_04: So here's what happened.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_04: After I left the police station, I went to the pay phone in town.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I called mom.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_04: I said, Mom, you know, I need to know about Robert's scars.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_04: And she goes, She was drunk, and she goes, You gotta come over right now.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_04: So I did it.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_04: And when I got there, I went inside and she said, How bad do you want to know about Robert?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_04: And she goes, You risk losing everything for to know something like that.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, Yes.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_04: And then she told me she told me that my dad and someone else murdered my brother.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_04: And all I remember is I was driving home from my mom's and just completely thinking to myself, how can this even happen?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_04: How can this be true?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm thinking, mom must be lying, but I she wasn't a liar.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I knew I knew it was true.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_04: But I was just like, how can this even be?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_04: Real that is awful.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: And for two days, I just remembered like two days just being in a just like a daze.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I I remember sitting in the front yard, like watching the sunset, just trying to comprehend this, and then reality hit.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_04: I knew it was true, and then I was absolutely devastated.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_04: I can't even tell you in words.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, I can't do this, and if it wasn't for my son, I would not be here right now.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: And even having my little boy, I didn't know if I could survive this.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's that's really heavy.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's I don't think anyone, yeah, that's like a worse nightmare.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_04: Because remember, I was already in hell, and then this, so I just it was just horrible.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_04: It took everything in me, everything in me, every single day to survive.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_04: But I love my little boy, so I had to, but I didn't know if I could.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_04: So I bought a cemetery plot, had to made payments on a cemetery plot, so my son couldn't see me if I didn't miss it.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_04: But obviously, I did.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you did.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_04: I just wish I could have done more, but it's just it's just terrible.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_04: And then and then other traumas happened.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_04: So it was just chaos for decades until my dad finally wanted to tell the truth.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: When your mom told you, did she say how she knew?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, did your dad tell her, or did she find out some other way?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't my dad.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think by day.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_04: I think, well, here's the thing: it was someone else that told her.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if it was in person, on the phone.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_04: At that point, honestly, yeah.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_04: I don't, I don't know.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't ask, I was just too shocked and just and so she didn't go to the sheriff's department with this information though?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_04: She didn't she did call the police and they showed up at her house, but she was drunk, and the officer told her to sober up and go to the station to make a report.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_04: And unfortunately, that's what why we are in this nightmare still.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_04: That's one reason.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: Because after that, she was silenced.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_04: My dad showed up five minutes later at her house, so he silenced her first, but she wasn't totally silenced, someone else did, and that's that for sure silenced my mother.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: This is just a crazy story.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's like just one thing after another after another.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: You're now talking like more talking with the sheriff's department, like you're kind of been kicking up some dirt with them lately.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: Or here's what happened.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_04: So obviously I didn't know what to do.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_04: And then my mother, unbeknownst to me, until I realized this last year.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe because I'm not that smart, and I'm sure because I have a history of so much trauma that had something to do with it.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_04: So, whatever the reasons, I didn't realize that my mother started manipulating me.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_04: After I found out, um, I started finding out what happened.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_04: So I know what happened.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I I I can't remember to, you know, see there's so much to tell, but I can't remember everything, right?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: So I just did the best I can with with with my story.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: But uh all I know is I was told some details from the other person.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_04: I was threatened.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and then my mother and I, this other person kept telling my mother things.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_04: So between the two of us, we shared what we knew because we were both obsessed and knowing what happened to Robert.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_04: But at some point, and it wasn't that long, I'll say a few months after I found out, after we found out, that my mother tried to silence me and I didn't even know it.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_04: Because I how would I ever think that my mother could be okay with this?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: Like I it just never even ever came into my mind.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_04: Because, see, in the relationship with my mother, I was always the mother looking out for her.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_04: I never had no one looking out for me.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_04: So when she was devastated when when this first happened, I saw her.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_04: It was it was it was so upsetting to see her suffering so so bad.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_04: It was just absolutely traumatizing, that in itself.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_04: So Marjorie helped her.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_04: And so I I never thought of what she could do for me, looking out for me, because we never had that.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_04: I never had that relationship.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_04: It was just me looking out for her.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_04: So see, it didn't dawn on me that she wasn't looking out for me.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway, she started manipulating me unbeknownst to me, like, oh, you're gonna get in trouble.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't even do anything just to silence me.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_04: In trouble for how are you gonna get in trouble for that's what she told me, and and I believed her, so I was scared to talk about.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_04: And plus, then of course I was threatened.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_04: So I was scared.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_04: I had a little boy.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_04: It was just it was so much trauma that I really don't know how I I did it.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_04: Then, you know, I'm just barely surviving, and then unfortunately, I had another evil person in my life, and that is I had a stalker.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: Well, yeah.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_04: A man, I won't even get into how I met him.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, he knew about my situation, so I was extremely vulnerable.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_04: He knew about all these things.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so anyway, I hung out with them a little bit because you know he made me laugh.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: Believe me, I needed to laugh.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: And then when he I realized he just drank so much that it's like, I can't have this around my son.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_04: There's just no way.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I said, you know, I can't see you anymore.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, if I can't have you, no one can.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_04: And then he starts talking to me and he poisoned my Pepsi.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_04: He put something in it, Pepsi.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_04: Almost killed me.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: I went to the ER.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, terrible.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_04: This is it was honey.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_04: And then when the police came and got him, he was yelling about my brother's murder, which was, you know, good.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_04: But oh, it was, I'm telling you, I was so traumatized.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_04: So that didn't help anything.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_04: Like, and I feel horrible.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_04: I couldn't do more for my brother, but it was just and then I'm trying to save my son too.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_04: Because my son is having obviously issues.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, I'm trying to save him, trying to take him to therapist, and and so that was a full-time job in itself.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: Because I had to save my baby.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_04: So unfortunately, I get that.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_04: I I I couldn't save, I couldn't take care of Robert.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_04: And that that hurts me so bad, like you would not believe.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_04: But I figure I could do it now.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's still time to get this solved.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_04: So we don't have a lot of time.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_04: We don't have a lot of time because someone that has the information is not in very good health.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: So you know the circumstances surrounding his disappearance and murder.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want to share that?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: Or any of it?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, I could share some.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_04: I could uh I could tell you that I found out that my dad drugged Robert.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_04: And then Robert was Robert was at his house.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_04: So dad drugged him.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: And then this was premeditated, by the way.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_04: And then the other person.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_04: Or persons.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_04: But I know for a fact we won't.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_04: Duct taped him and took him to the back of the camper shell and shot him.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_04: But there's more details.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_04: There's more details that I I can't say publicly.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: Understand that.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: What why do you think this happened?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_04: What's the theory?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_04: Mine, my personal opinion.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I was told from that other person that isn't in very good health that it was over a fight that Robert and another person were in years prior.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_04: So there was a grudge.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_04: And then, of course, there's money.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_04: My dad had money, and I'm sure he was paid.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_04: And my dad had issues with Robert too.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_04: I, you know, I found out a lot of things.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_04: Dad must have had resentments towards his son.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_04: So that dad did say that he was manipulated into doing this, though.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_04: The other person manipulated him, which I do believe, but still dad did it.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_04: But I do believe that they played a big part.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't understand how you can be manipulated to kill your own son.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: My dad, he could be manipulated.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: That is just wild.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_04: By this person.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's hard to fathom.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_04: And and at the end, though, my dad wanted to tell the truth.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_04: So I was very grateful for that.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, tell me about that.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_04: Well, this is part of comp very complicated.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm gonna try to make it as okay at least complicated as possible.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_04: So in 2019, my dad started bringing up the murder a little bit to me because he would never talk about it.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, by the way, guess what else?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_04: I'm forgetting something.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, and I want to tell you something else, too.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_04: There was an investigation going on in 1996.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know what happened.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_04: I waited for law enforcement to come to my house, but they never showed up.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: Are you able to get documents?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_04: The I have I've tried to get the Freedom of Information Act twice in the last year and a half, and I can't get it.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_04: They say it's because it's an open investigation.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_04: I don't want to get sidetracked, but I want to tell you something else.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_04: When this first happened, when I after I found out, I mean, I confronted my dad, of course.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: How could you?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I wanted some answers because I was getting some answers from the other person involved.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I was just like, oh hell no, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_04: And so I confront a dad, and dad would not talk about it at all.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_04: And he'd just act like Robert was asleep or something.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like he did this hand motion, like Robert's asleep.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: And and though then I found out that dad wanted that other person to kill me too.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_04: I was asking too many questions.
• 27:11
  unknown: Yeah.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_04: That must have terrified you.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'm telling you, it was just a nightmare.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm sure it's worse than I can remember.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_04: So then 2019.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: Dad would never talk about it throughout the years.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_04: Not that I saw him very much.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_04: Like, really?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_04: So he's he brought it up.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it had to be done.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, oh no, oh no, you should have called the police.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_04: Because, like I said, he made it seem like Robert was bad.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: The police wouldn't have done nothing.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you should have called him anyway.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_04: And it would go like that.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_04: And then it happened again and a few more times.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then the last time it happened, it it got worse because I said, you know what, Dad, you need to tell the truth.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: This needs to be resolved.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_04: And he got really angry at me because I would not go along with it.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it had to be done.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_04: No, oh, hell no.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_04: So he was so enraged that he did something else and he tried to set me up, but his plan backfired.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: So we got a clue about this other person.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_04: And their relationship it just got so bad that dad hated him.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_04: So then he started realizing things.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_04: That's when he realized he was manipulating.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_04: And he was also dad started having health issues too in 2020.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_04: So he almost died.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_04: And then when he was he survived, um he needed someone to take care of him.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_04: So I did.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh you you did?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_04: I did.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: It was still my dad.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:47
  unknown: Okay.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_04: So he was scared of going to hell because you know we we have to call the ambulances several times.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_04: So something happened in one of those hospital visits.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_04: So dad was scared.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_04: So he wanted to tell the truth by me.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_04: But unfortunately, we didn't get to the police station like we were going to do because this attorney with that setup that dad was going to set me up in 2019, that attorney scared me.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_04: So I was manipulated yet again.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_04: Because the police won't believe you.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I believed him.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_04: So we didn't go, but I tried to find an attorney to go with us.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_04: But the attorney I trusted, she was out of state.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so he found another attorney.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_04: But so this attorney said that he would go to the the DA was his neighbor, and he knocked on his door and told him that my dad wanted to talk, but they didn't show up.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_04: And and then I got distracted because my son started having a crisis.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_04: And then my dad suddenly couldn't walk anymore.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, it you know, I was his I had very little help with my dad.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I gave because I found a girl to hire a little bit.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_04: So but it was I was just unclear, I was still taking care of my mom.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there was COVID, so I had to, you know, I cooked her food, I'd shop for her because there's a lot.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like I was just distracted.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_04: And also I did not know that when my dad made a dying declaration, but I did not know who told the attorney to wait till after I'm dead to give it to the authorities.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_04: I only learned on the podcast.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so he actually told an attorney the whole story of what happened.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_04: He didn't tell him everything, but he told him enough, I suppose.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_04: And he said where Robert's buried.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I really believe my dad was telling the truth on that part, but now I have to be a little suspicious.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: I I I doubt it.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_04: He could be at another location.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so if he's not at that other location that has not been searched, but I'll get I'll go into that part.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_04: Then he then dad was telling the truth.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_04: But dad might have been not telling the truth in that part to protect the other person involved.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_04: Because if there's nobody, then you know, maybe it won't be, you know.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's more difficult, but yeah.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_04: So court case investigators, after after I went to the attorney after dad died with the denying declaration, and I said, You gotta get the detectives to talk to me.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_04: So they did.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_04: They came to my house and I went to the station, and then I told them everything.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_04: And then I was hoping they could do something, and I just waited and waited and waited.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_04: Years passed.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_04: And finally, after like three and a half years, I said, Okay, that's it.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_04: I I just I gotta get some answers then.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_04: It's looking hopeless because the detective made it seem hopeless.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: So you brought this to the detectives, and nothing came of it.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_04: Well, they talked to mom, but mom wouldn't say anything at that time, and she lied.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_04: She lied.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_04: I was shocked because they asked her about this and and she didn't deny what happened.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I was in the other room, but I could hear a little bit.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_04: But she said they asked her how she found out about it.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_04: She said I told her that I just can't, but I didn't realize things still.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_04: I just, I mean, who can conceive of a mother letting her son not get any justice and and staying in a pit?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, I the whole thing is extremely messed up.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_04: After I started getting answers, I found out more information, and I was absolutely devastated.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_04: I found out their childhood friend of Robert's and of the other person uh told me that he was paid to do it, but they didn't pay him enough.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_04: And he told me details, one that I didn't even know, and then he wouldn't talk to me anymore.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: You just keep getting these little bits of information here and there.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, little dang a carrot dangled here and there.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_04: And then his sister, you know, she's the one who called me after 30 years, and she flew down because she knew us, she grew up with us because she was a girlfriend of the other person.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_04: When she came down, we went to the the desert where dad said Robert is.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I put crosses there because I don't know the exact location, so I put them in the in the area.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_04: There's like five there.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_04: What area is this?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's by Boron by Cramer Junction.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_04: But I I put them all around there, not just on the the back road where Robert supposedly was that's where dad said Robert was.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_04: I put them to tell people about Robert.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: That puts them on the main road.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: I did see something on Reddit where someone had taken a picture and they're like, hey, have you guys heard about this?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's getting posted all over.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: There were two different areas that were mentioned.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, that was I had to, I I'm because I I I went that's another thing.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_04: I took I contacted Project Colcase, and they're the ones that told me to go on social media.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_04: They said they can't help me because there's nobody unless he's declared a homicide, and I knew he wasn't, he's declared missing.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_04: So that's where I said I gotta put something out there, so I got the crosses with Robert's name on it.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_04: So it was something, until finally some people, you know, were got interested.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_04: It took a while.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_04: The sister came down, and we went to the desert, had some prayers, brought some flowers, took some pictures, because it was someone else with me that knew Robert.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_04: I wanted someone else there.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I was so happy that someone cared.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_04: Well, not long after that, I got some text messages from her brother, and that's you know, he he he told me that Robert is not buried there.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_04: He said he's buried in the yard where he used to live.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: This is just such uh conflicting information.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_04: But I remembered something when he told me that.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_04: I remember my mom told me that once, and I debated for about a year.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_04: Is he in the desert or is he in the yard?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I I just I kept thinking about it, thinking about it, and finally I said, He's in the yard.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yeah, but I need Robert recovered, I need him to rest in peace, and I need to get some closure here.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_04: I would I would really like an arrest because at least it's acknowledged, even if they can't prosecute.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_04: Or I've said this before, they at least want to acknowledge what happened to my brother.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, it's like if someone's missing that long, you know, there's no they haven't made any transactions, there's just nothing.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like, you know, you have to you have to suspect the worst.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: But do the does the sheriff's office do they they don't believe that he's been murdered, they just they know just they know they know okay okay.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we have done it's done declaration.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_04: I was told directly the other the other the childhood friend, he knows, he told me.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, other people know they told my dad and the other person told people like I was shocked when I found out how many people knew.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right, yeah, because you usually can't keep something like that a secret.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_04: So many people had their own motives of why they didn't come forward or whatever.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_04: They like like one person, this is this is the irony, which I didn't think about at the time because I was too out of it.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_04: But one person who knew was the girlfriend of the other person, and her family was law enforcement, but there was a baby involved, so I just wish there was somebody that would have helped me.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_04: And the extended family knew, but they didn't do anything, right?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I guess I was just too out of it, yeah, and scared.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_04: I was scared, of course, yeah.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is it's a very unusual story, a lot of players, it seems like, and not a lot of evidence of of anything.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_04: And then I was hoping, if nothing else, we could get someone to help me get Robert, even without law enforcement.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I tried Equisearch, Texas Equisearch, but right they never responded after I told them the story, so I don't know.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_04: And then I found I found a nonprofit private investigator last year, but then he was told I don't have the exact words, but basically to stay out of it.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_04: And then I found a canine dog that would search the properties, both of them, but then they said they needed the sheriff's approval at the last minute, and so I was like, then it didn't happen.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_04: They said, Well, we're sorry, you know, it's like okay, and so then I tried to get an outside agency, a cold case agency, just in August.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_04: I found one that would offer to help me.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, but she said that they needed law enforcement to call them, to ask them to help.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I sent a letter to law enforcement, and then he the detective called me last month and said basically they have their own, they have everything, they don't need outside help, basically.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and we need probable calls or something like that.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_04: So sure.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, so that's where we stand.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so that's that's what's kind of been going on where everything is at right now.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_04: Someone suggested that we should get people to call them and ask for justice for Robert.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: The the sheriff's department.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: That's what someone suggested that we should do.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_04: Oh I I asked someone about that.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_04: And he said that he would he would, you know, make a flyer for everyone to call, but I I I mean, I don't know what it's to do.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I think you're doing a lot.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: You've done a lot.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's just not getting any traction.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: I wish there was some more evidence.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, someone saying something, you know, a lot of times that's just not taking him seriously.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, oh, maybe they were pressured, or you know, I wish there was something like solid.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I do know one person heard a different version that told law enforcement, but it wasn't what I know to be true.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_04: That the other person said that he didn't do it, he just cleaned it up.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I it's just so convoluted.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's just what to believe or who to believe.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: I know the truth.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_04: So if law enforcement doesn't believe my version, well, I can't help that, but I know.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean they told me.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the story is very tragic, a lot of things going on, and I feel so terrible about all of it.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you have your son, so that's a bright spot, but there's just so much trauma that you've endured.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you know what?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_04: When when I feel bad about it, you know what?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_04: That's nothing compared to what Robert went through.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_04: And this is the part that, like at nighttime, I have a really difficult time because I think about his last moments.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_04: I'm sure it's way more horrific than I can even imagine.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_04: And then his life is taken.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_04: He had a girlfriend, he had her daughters, he wanted a family, he deserved a family, and then it was stolen from him, and they got away with it.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_04: And he's still in a pit, covered in a lie.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_04: That's the real tragedy, honey.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_04: Not my not my story, it's his.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for for sharing that.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope, you know, somebody listening or something, something happens with this case, and you're able to, you know, have Robert brought back home to you because he deserves that, you deserve that.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_04: I have to keep hoping, I have to keep hoping that someone's gonna care.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_04: No, man, look at you care.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm so grateful that you do care.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like you're helping me be Robert's voice.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_04: And you know what?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_04: You know what hurts me too?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_04: On top of obviously all of it, is that nobody cared about Robert growing up.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_04: He was unloved his entire life.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_04: And so I try to make good from bad, I guess, because I've had so much bad that I have to find some good from it.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like at least people can care about him after death.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: At least someone could care about him now.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, see, you know, he did have a girlfriend that cared and you cared, and and the daughters, and they she was devastated.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_04: I found her.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_04: She was devastated, and her daughters are devastated seeing their mother suffer.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: Oh that yeah, just very all around, just so many, and so many people affected by it by all of this.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: What's keeping you going?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_04: Because that the only thing that keeps me going is that I'm the only one there is, and I can't I can't stop because Robert's depending on me.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, he suffered.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_04: There's there's no one that will be his voice except me.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_04: And that's that's what always keeps me going.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_04: As as horrible as this is, and sad and tragic, and and how much it hurts me.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_04: I can't stop.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_04: Look what they did, and it's far worse.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_04: Look what they did to him, and look where he's at.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, how could anyone stop?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_04: And being so unloved his entire life.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_04: How could and me being a person who was also in love?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_04: And my own brother.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, I can't stop, and I really need resolved though.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_04: I need it resolved.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm glad that you're you're speaking for him and you're doing what you can for him.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think that that is wonderful, and I again just hope something shifts in the case.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's very tragic and uh he deserves justice.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I do have if uh if anyone has any information that may help bring Robert home, you can contact the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: The number is nine.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: 909-387-3695.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_03: And the case number is 149-603263 or the California DOJ hotline at 800-222-3464.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry, 3463.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, there are people, other people that know they won't talk to me.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_04: I've tried several people, and that's just people I know of, but they just won't talk to me.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I wish they'd come forward.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_04: I someone told me once that they're scared, and I understand fear because I've been afraid too.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_04: But guess what?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_04: I was the one who was in danger.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_04: And there's no threat.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_04: There's not really a threat now.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_04: I can't say why.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_04: But if I could come forward, someone else can to do the right thing, to do the right thing.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_04: Because there, I suspect there's there there are actual people that knew Robert too that know.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like, I don't know what their loyalties are too.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_04: But but I mean it's never too late to do the right thing, right?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, someone is is gone forever, and somebody should absolutely do the right thing and and come forward.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_04: And if it was their sibling, right, you know, they would want someone to tell for them, but see, it's not their sibling.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_04: But anyway, honey, you're awesome for helping me get the word out there.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, thank thank you so much.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm I'm glad you reached out and and for sure, you know, just keep reaching out to people and and getting his, you know, his story out there, his information out there, and somebody's gonna hear something and decide to do the root.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm so sorry I upset you with all this.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's all right.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm glad that you were able to, I'm glad that you're able to speak about it, to to share it, because I think that's it's kind of therapeutic to to say everything to to keep his, you know, to keep his name alive, to remember him, who he was, who he was to you, how he made you feel, like, you know, never stop talking about him.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_04: Because when I do this, I have to relive it.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_04: And that's the part that hurts.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_04: But guess what?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_04: I have to do it for Robert because he's counting on me.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_04: I'm the only one that's done it, and he's counting on me because how could we just let no one know what happened to him?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_04: But how could how come we just I could never do that?
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, how but I don't know how how other people could just there's some real evil out there, yeah.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: There's some real evil out there, but you're very, you know, courageous to yeah, I mean, basically re-traumatize yourself by sharing everything.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_04: It's worth it though.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_04: It is worth it for Robert to be his voice, and I'm just so grateful you let me do that.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, thank you.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you so much.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just why isn't this person's like so the sheriff's department knows about whoever this other alleged person is?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: Why what are they have they questioned the person?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: Have they done anything?
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_04: I mean finally, I think they did, but I think I was told my cousin finally made a phone call to them.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_04: And this was last year after, well, one of my cousins made a phone call after she found out about the text messages, and they and she demanded that they go and interview this other, this this childhood friend.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_04: So supposedly they did.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know what happened, the detective won't tell me.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_04: But when my cousin talked to someone in law enforcement, a detective, one of them told her that they said that my dad did it and they want to go to the DA to close the case.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_04: I was pissed because that's not the truth.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_04: I emailed the detective and I said, you know, no, you can't do that.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, Oh, we're investigating.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_04: But that's maybe what the problem is.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I get it.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's, you know, it's well it's cold case, it's still active, but still it's like, I feel like there should be more communication, you know, with them, more transparency about what is going on.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I understand there's things they can't say, they need to keep close, whatever, but yeah, it's like you don't really know anything.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: And and I feel like, you know, it could possibly help if you know some of what is going on.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's a really tricky.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me they want to.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_04: Uh but I just know what I know.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_04: People believe whatever they want.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_04: But I know the truth.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't appreciate if my dad was lying, if my dad said Robert was buried in the desert, of course, you know, but I wouldn't put it past him to protect the other person because he went to great levels to do that.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_04: Great levels.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_04: I know that for a fact.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_04: And there was one person that told me himself, like I was shocked that he knew something.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so I asked him about it last year.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_04: And he said basically he didn't he just kind of backpedaled, minimized in what he knew.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_04: But basically, he he didn't do anything because he he had enough complications in his life.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_04: He didn't want the complication in his life or something like that.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I mean he told himself, yeah, but he didn't want a part of it.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_04: And he and he told me that, you know, my dad made it clear that he didn't want anything to happen to the other person.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I know that he went to great once.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_04: No, my dad was gonna have me killed.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that obviously, like everything just blows me away, the whole everything, all of it.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's all awful.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_04: I know, but we just need this nightmare to end.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_04: And so if we could get people to care, make that's the only hope I and I know it's a it's a horrible, ugly story, and I I feel terrible having to tell it all because it's so horrible.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_04: But it's the truth.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_04: And Robert needs the truth told for him.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_02: I completely agree.