Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Shannon Penn on The Rise and Fall of the Cowboys' Dynasty: 30 Years Later | 02.03

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Shannon Penn on The Rise and Fall of the Cowboys' Dynasty: 30 Years Later | 02.03 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time, A Wave Original.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Beaumont Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: a hater. It is Time Machine Tuesday. This week we
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: are going to talk about 30 years ago. Not exactly
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: this week, but 30 years ago in this neighborhood of time,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys won their third Super Bowl in four
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: years and little did we know, Not only would they
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: not win a Super Bowl since then, not only would
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: they not go to a Super Bowl after this, they
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: ain't been to a conference championship game since this happened.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: So, you know, who knew? We will look back on
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: that and join me now.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: You can check him out on Freddie and Harry on
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: ESPN Radio and, you know, OG, Right Time member, Shannon Penn.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: What's going on, brother?
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: What's good, my man?
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Hey, man. You know, it's another day in the life.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I was actually thinking about this with the Cowboys kind
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: of in the context of us, right? So for people
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: who don't know, Shannon and I worked together in North
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Carolina on the radio. We were doing Saturday, Sunday morning shifts.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? My first show ever, Sports Saturday,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: was with Shannon. We were talking about, I did a
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: shout out to, what's his name? DeMond Wilson on Monday.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: And I was like, we used to have the big
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: dummy of the week. on radio back in the day,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: which looking back was a little bit harsh.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: But you know what I mean?
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: But it hit though, it hit though.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: It hit every week.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: We had the Baltimore house music, you big dummy.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, we had people waiting on it, you know what
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I'm saying? Like we had those things, but we started
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: doing that show in January of 2008. And that is
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: the year that the Giants beat the Patriots, right?
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: And think about this, Shannon.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: That was 12 years after the Cowboys had last won
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: a championship, right? Neither of us grew up as Cowboys fans, right?
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: My dad is like an old school, like old black man.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Cowboys fan, right?
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Like crying, you know, not crying because he don't do that,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: but over the ice bowl type of situation, right? You,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: as we said, were a Giants fan. That was your bang.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: But the Cowboys in that run, I'm curious about, if
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: you felt the way that I felt before they got good,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: which was they felt to me in some ways like
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: the Packers did. And this won't be the same for
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: you because you were a Yankees fan, but like the
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Yankees did to me where y'all say they used to
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: be good.
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Like, like, like, like, like it felt like forever ago
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: they were good, except they had only been bad for
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: like three years.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: But it was a formative three years for me.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Right. We watch it like the games on every week.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: They go one in 15. I was like, what are
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: we talking about here?
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: Right. And that was the thing for me, like the
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: rise of the Cowboys. Like I didn't grow up with
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: that like in the 80s as far as the Cowboys
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: being relevant living in New York. Like for me, it
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: was obviously Giants still coming off of the 86 Super Bowl.
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: And then you had the Niners being as dominant as
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: they were. Like for me, the Cowboys. And the Bears
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: as well and what they were and Walter Payton, the
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: Super Bowl shuffle, the whole nine. So for me growing up,
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: the Cowboys really in the 80s for me in New York,
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: they really weren't that relevant for me.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they might as well have been like Chubby Checker.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Cab Calloway. You know, because
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: as a small child, all that shit is the same.
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: Like, for me, a lot of you know, to cut
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: you off in the same vein, for me, that was
• 3:45
  Speaker 5: the Packers as well.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, the Packers, for me, like,
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: that was.
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: I'm only looking at old grainy footage of the Packers,
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: you know, Super Bowl I and II, Vince Lombardi. Like,
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: for me, it was like, oh, who is this team?
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Like, the Packers, for me, were like, by definition, sorry. Now,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: keep in mind, with the Packers, though, they went to
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: the playoffs twice in 20 years. Like after Lombardi, they
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: had that long run. You remember that Don Makowski year.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: It was like, oh, the pack is back. But the Cowboys,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: just because of the timing of our youth, may as
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: well have been the same. But the truth is, they
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: only had like two, like the Tom Landry years, it
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: was like the last three.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Two or three. that weren't good. And then it moved
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: into that new era.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: But like the first Cowboys team I ever really remember
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: watching or knowing anything about was like the 88 Cowboys
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: when they quarterbacked with Steve Palua. I don't know if people,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: even every other Cowboys quarterback, basically, since they got good
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: in the mid-60s, has been some kind of famous, right?
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Craig Morton, Don Meredith, Roger Starbuck, Danny White. Like, you
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: don't have to know about Danny White if you're young,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: but if you talk to people at the time, like,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: you know, Danny White was something. Troy Aikman, you know,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: threw that run. And then in between was Steve Palua.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: but he was my first Cowboys quarterback. He was the
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: one that I knew of, man.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: They were sorry.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: Look, I'll take your word for it.
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: Because look, prior to Ryan hitting me up for this episode,
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: I had to look up.
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: Who dude was. I was like, oh, wait a minute.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: There was a quarterback.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: All I think I know is that he wore number 11.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know what he looked like. He could be
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: left-handed for all I know. I don't know anything, right?
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I just know... That team was sorry.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: And then that year that Troy Aikman pulled up, they
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: was extra sorry. Right. Right.
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: And, and, and, and two, like, and obviously a lot
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: of this is documented in the, in the, the Cowboys doc,
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: but like they were bad, bad. And then obviously now
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: looking at revisionist history and you talk about Aikman, that's
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: what wanted to go like, yeah, he was the number
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: one pick, but it wasn't all glowing for Aikman to start. Like,
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: not only was he bad, the team was bad. There
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: wasn't a lot of confidence in him as well for
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: a guy coming, Coming off being the number one overall pick.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: First of all, if I'm not mistaken, the one game
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: they won that year was a game he did not play.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I think they were 0-11 with him as starting quarterback.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Jimmy was never really sold on him. You know, Jimmy
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: went and got his guy. He went and got.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Steve Walsh, right?
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: The same year, they basically spent two number one overall
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: picks on quarterbacks at the same time.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: They took Aikman in the.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Draft draft and they took Steve Walsh in the supplemental
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: draft with a first round pick that wound up being
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: worthy of the number one pick. But I'm going to
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: run this by you because I don't think that this
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: is something that people quite understand if you are of
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: a certain of like of our age, which is how
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: good the Cowboys were when Tom Landry was the coach. OK,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: now keep in mind that they only won two Super Bowls.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: He went to five. They only won two. And that's
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: the way we measure people.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: OK, I'm going to give you win totals.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Keep in mind, these are 14, 14 game seasons through
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: 1976 or is it 1970 through 1977? OK, I'm going
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: to start in 1966, 10, 3 and 1, 9 and 5,
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  Speaker 1: 12 and 2, 11, 2 and 1, 10 and 4,
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  Speaker 1: 11 and 3. 10 and four, 10 and four, eight
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: and six, 10 and four, 11 and three, 12 and two,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: 12 and four, 11 and five, 12 and four, 12
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: and four, six and three, 12 and four, nine and seven,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: 10 and six. That's 20 years basically through 1985.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: That's what they were.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: They weren't just kind of good all these years, right?
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: They were a boss year after year after year. Even
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Danny White had three straight years of going to the
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: NFC Championship game. They didn't win them, but in the
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: early 80s, if Dwight Clark doesn't make that.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Catch, they're going to the Super Bowl.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: They were, all the way through the 70s and through
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: much of the 80s, really really good and then as
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: happens like this what happened to tom landry this last
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: three years was 79 7 and 8 and 13 and
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: 3 79 and 7 and 8 are not really that
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: terrible 13 and 3 and then the team gets sold
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: you know you wind up getting fired but it was
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: the bill belichick ending basically it's kind of belichick just
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: without the superbowls i mean i understand that that's a
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: big gap but just to give you an idea of
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: what the cowboys meant and we saw none of it
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: We just pulled up to mediocrity. Right.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: Look, I'll take your word for it.
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: Like, yeah, I knew of Tony Dorsett, but I was
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: too young to remember him as a player.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: Like, I know the 88 Drew Pearson.
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: Like, I know all of that, but I don't know
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: it enough, like, to have experienced it when it was
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: happening in real time.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Or even, like, I was very aware of Herschel Walker
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: as an idea, but we didn't get great Herschel Walker
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: out on field.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: No, no. Like, for me, it was Herschel Walker, Georgia
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: Herschel Walker.
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: That's That's the Herschel Walker that I knew of was
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: college Herschel Walker.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, see, I guess I understood the magnitude of Herschel
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Walker as, like, best player on Dallas Cowboys, and I
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: guess also because of the Atlanta nature of my household.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Herschel Walker, you know, Herschel Walker had been a star
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: to them. He was a junior in high school because
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: of the newspaper, right? You know, that was kind of
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: where it was. But they were so bad in that
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: 1-15 season that Jerry– I don't think we talk enough
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: about how, like I was just reading this book that
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: made a point about when the Spanish invaded some of
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: these folks, that because the people had never seen guns before,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: they couldn't even conceptualize what a gun was. Like imagine
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: you don't know what a gun is. You out here
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: ready to fight with your spears and your arrows and
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: everything else. And then this dude points something at you
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: and the next thing you know, people is dying.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Like you, you have no concept and no idea of
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: what you're up against.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: You like, wait a minute, give me a minute here
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: with that Herschel Walker trade. What I don't think that
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: people get is that it's not simply that the Cowboys
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: got a bunch of picks in the draft is that
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the cowboy in the trade is that the Cowboys got
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: a bunch of players in in that trade and there
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: was a provision that said that if the Cowboys released
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: those players then they would receive certain picks and the
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Vikings thinking was well they're not going.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: To get rid of all these perfectly good players. Why
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: would you ever do such a thing, right?
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: And Jimmy's plan the whole way was to cut them off.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: There was never any plan.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Like Darren Nelson, Jesse Solomon, all these guys.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Never once did he consider keeping them.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Nobody had ever thought of a trade in the way
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: that they had thought of a trade. And so they
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: tanked without tanking, right? Like, because it didn't matter. They
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: didn't have their number one, they didn't have their first
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: round pick. They gave it up in the supplemental draft.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: So they didn't even have any purpose.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: And on that, and are we sure? All right. Are
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: we sure that was all Jimmy's idea, though?
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: Like, I'm not going to cape for Jerry, not at all,
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: because Jimmy's the football guy. We sure that was Jimmy's plan,
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: because we got to give Jerry... Jerry's a shrewd businessman,
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: so if there's any.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: I agree.
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: Like, looking at this from a business nature, not necessarily football, like,
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: the idea to put that language in that trade is
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: a shrewd business move. Now, it's probably Jimmy's idea, but, like,
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: I wouldn't put it past Jerry to, like... a Texas oil,
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: like an oil man. Like I wouldn't try to pass
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: them either.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: That's a, that is a fair point, right?
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: It is entirely possible, but some combination of the two
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: of them made fools of the Vikings, right?
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Like think about this for the Vikings. They lost the players.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: And they lost the picks, right?
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: The Cowboys got the players and played them because why not?
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: You're not going to have your pick. You don't have
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: any incentive, really. I guess the later round picks you
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: have to think about. But then at the end of
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: the year, man, they cleaned house and got all of
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: those dudes out of there. And it set up a
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: crazy run where not only did they have the picks,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: they nailed the picks. And so the next year, if
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, Emmitt Smith was one of those picks.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: And he had to be yet because he was drafted
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: the next year. They go from 1-15 and they go
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: to 7-9.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: And Emmitt Smith is, I think he ran for like
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: 900-something yards that year. He was a very good college
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: player that you weren't necessarily sure was going to turn
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: into an excellent NFL player. But what we learned in
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the year after they went 7-9 and almost made the playoffs,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: the next year they made the playoffs, they played against
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: the Bears, and they won a wild card game against
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: the Bears.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: And then they got smoked by the Detroit.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Lions with Troy Aikman able to play and Jimmy Johnson
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: playing Steve Burleigh.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He was... See, that's my thing. You look back
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: on it.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Hold up, hold up, hold up. And then after the
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: game was out of hand, put Troy in.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: Like he was trying to, look, he was trying to
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: force Troy up out of there.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was trying to find any way possible. He
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: was just like, I just don't know about this guy.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: But in that time, what we also learned though, was
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: they had put together an offensive line. Emmitt Smith was
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: that dude. And the last first-round pick, I recall, of
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: the Troy... No, yes, of the Tom Landry era was
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Michael Irvin.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They were on the way, boys.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And that's the part of it, too.
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: Like... not just accumulating those draft picks, as you said,
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: hitting on those draft picks as well. Like, we talk
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: about the number of players that were involved, but it
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: wasn't just the mass number. It's hitting on those guys, too. Like,
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: you couldn't just go out there and get these numbers.
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: It was making the right selection, like you said, building
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: the offensive line, you know, Having the belief in a
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: guy like Emmitt, who, like you said, there were still
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: some questions. It wasn't a no-brainer that this guy was
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: going to hit and him becoming what he became. So
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: it was absolutely like having a foresight in the player
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: personnel that Jimmy had turned the Cowboys into what they became.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: All right, so let's look at who some of these
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: players were that the Cowboys got as a result of
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: this trade.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Emmitt Smith. they got as a result of this trade
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: they did.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Some other finagling help use some of the picks to
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: get the number one pick in 91 they got russell
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: maryland so emma smith the all-time leading rusher russell maryland
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: a pro bowl um defensive lineman yeah a weird number
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: one overall pick though like you'll never ever again see
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: a number one pick where why'd you get him and
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: we're we're sure he'll be okay Right? Maybe the most
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: low-ceiling number one overall pick there's ever been. Kevin Smith,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: who's the first-round pick with Texas A & M defensive back.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I think he became a pro bowler. Darren Woodson, who
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: will be a perennial Hall of Fame finalist.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Finalist, yeah.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: One of those guys.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Every year, they just gonna toy with that man every year.
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: Shout out to Darren Woodson. We got him on my
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: show tomorrow, too. And when I have to send him
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: my email every year, it's Hall of Fame finalist.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, man, look. He seemed like a good dude.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? I just don't think he's
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: a Hall of Famer. And they just keep doing this.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: And they keep doing this. And they keep doing this. Oh,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: the Vikings got Jake Reed out of the deal. There
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: you go.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: HBCU legend.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: HBCU legend, right?
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: But they made a rise in a way that I
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: don't think I fully grasped how polarizing the Cowboys were
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: as an entity at that point, because again, they had
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: been sorry, but also I felt like it was a
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: rise that made the team somewhat endearing, right?
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Like it was rapid, but there were.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Still steps like, you know, to, to like, we watched
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: them go a little bit up a little bit up
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: in that time period. And again, 1992 became a crazy
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: year to think about, right?
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Like the 49ers, they've been down a couple years.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Washington in 91, and for those of you who are unaware,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: probably the best football team I've ever seen.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Was the 91 Washington team.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: And there's no explaining to you why.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Like showing you the list of players isn't going to
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: You kind of just had to be there.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: They were crazy.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Unreal.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: And the one game they lost.
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: And they hit like that year and they hit like
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: Mark Rippon was going to have a season like he
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: did that year.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: No, no, no.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: And the Cowboys beat him that year. And the Cowboys
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: beat him that year. But you got to 92 and
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: the 49ers now we're back.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: They had gone through the Joe Montana, Steve Young transition.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: So in 1990, the Giants beat the 49ers in the
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: NFC Championship game 10 to 9. Joe Montana got broken half.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Leonard Marshall hit him so hard in the back. Like
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: they don't let you.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Do that no more. Right.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Like that's roughing the passer.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. That's roughing the passer. Even though it
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: was in the course of the play.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: He breaks Joe Montana in half. The Giants win the
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Super Bowl that year. Washington wins the next year. Steve Young,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: who they've had on ice for three years, three, four years,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: just waiting, right? He now gets to be the starter.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: The 49ers eventually have to trade Montana. I would say
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: they trade him at the end of 92 because Joe's like,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I can still play. And they're like, yo, we've moved on.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Just so you understand, even Joe Montana, they could do
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: that too. Steve Young comes in. mvp caliber player and
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: now it's 92 the 49ers are back jerry rice is
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: as good as he has ever been they they play
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: the cowboys in the 92 nfc championship game and jimmy
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: johnson has said that for that game um they knew
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: that was the super bowl when nobody really tripping on
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: whatever was going on over there buffalo i think they
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: played the dolphins that year i can't remember what they
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: were like hey man That ain't even really no thing here.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: The game is here.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: And, boy, like, I didn't appreciate it fully at the time,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: but I did, of course, as the years went. And
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: really looking back on it now, the idea that you
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: had the old dynasty and the new dynasty and the
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: old dynasty never really slipped.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: They had a year where they missed the playoffs, but
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: they went 10-6. You know what I mean?
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: And it's funny you bring up 92 because that was really, like,
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: for me as a Giant fan– that was really like
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: the first year of my dislike for the Dallas Cowboys.
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: Because like, although I'm a Giants fan, I like the
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: 49ers as well.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: How could you not? Like Jerry Rice, whenever you're out
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: there in the.
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: Street, I'm Jerry Rice. If I'm a receiver, I'm Jerry Rice.
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: If I'm a quarterback, I'm Joe Montana or whatever. So
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: like the 49ers were the 49ers. And then here comes
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: this team that I hadn't really checked for because in
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: the NFC East for me growing up, Eagles, Redskins, those
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: were the teams that I looked at as more of
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: the opponents there for the Giants. And then you had
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: this Cowboys team that's like, wait a minute, hold on,
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: where did these guys come from?
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: And how dare you? How dare you?
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: The unmitigated goal to go out here and play the
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: 49ers in this NFC Championship game.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: How dare you?
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: By the way, right fast, because you mentioned Jerry Rice,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: who I think is, at worst, the second best football
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: player who ever lived.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I think you go look at it numerically, there's no.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Nobody's ever, like, nobody's ever catching him for any of
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: the stuff that he did, and he did it in
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: the era where they didn't really throw the ball like.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: That, right?
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: You realize how crazy it is that you can show somebody, like,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: show somebody the best five-minute video of Randy Moss on YouTube,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: and then try to explain he's number two.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Right. And try to explain what the DBs were
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: allowed to do. Yes.
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: The DBs and the hits that the safeties were allowed
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: to employ on the wide receivers at that time.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Like when people talk about Randy Moss, they're like, yo,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: you know, we always shaded the safety over that way.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I don't hear people talk about Jerry Rice like.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: That because that didn't matter. It didn't matter what you
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: was doing.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: It was easily the most unguardable offensively player. as a
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: wide receiver in history. And that's the thing, too. It's like,
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: because you bring up Randy Moss, like, at least with Moss, like,
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: he had the measurables. Like, you look at Moss and
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: he walks into a room, it's like, oh.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Oh, that dude. Like, Jerry, not the same way.
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: So for him, the route running, the catching, the run,
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: they always talk about he's faster after he catches the ball. Like,
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: all of those stories. And then you look at Jerry Rice,
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: it's like, okay, You look at the highlights, that makes sense. Oh,
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: that's why Jerry Rice is who Jerry Rice is.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Just the illest, right? Yeah, right. Just the illest.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: But you know what's interesting to look back on with
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: those Cowboys teams in terms of style of play? Because
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I'm getting to kind of like personality and stuff like
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: that after the break. But what's interesting to me about
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: them is Jimmy Johnson football is not an exciting brand
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: of football, right? It wasn't exciting at Miami. It wasn't
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: exciting with the Cowboys. They had a pop tool, right?
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Like, they was it. They was them.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: But in the end, we're going to run the ball
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: over and over and over again. And then on defense,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: we're going to rush four and we're going to drop seven.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Why? Because our players... are better than yours. That is
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: our strategic advantage.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Well, then that goes back to Jerry.
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: I mean, excuse me, with Jimmy and his scouting and
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: his player evaluation. The fact that we didn't have to
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: do all this other extra stuff because when we step
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: out here, no matter if we're offensive defense, the 11
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: guys that we put down here is better than the
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: 11 guys you're going to put out here. What you
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: going to do about it?
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: Here you go. Boom. Stop it. We're going to run it. Here,
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: we're going to give it to Emmitt 40 times. Go ahead.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Stop it. Aikman's going to pass it maybe 15 times.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Bro, well, think about this, right?
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: And I think most people know, there's people who don't know,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Jimmy coached at Miami before he got to Dallas.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: University of Miami.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Howard Schnellenberger starts the era, but the U is born
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: truly as a brand, as a personality, as an entity.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: That is with Jimmy.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Jimmy somehow was able to treat the NFL like it
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: was when he was coaching Miami as an independent. Every week,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: we are going to have better players than you, right?
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: And if what we do is we execute what we
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: do with our better players, You will not be able
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: to beat us. You are not supposed to be able
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: to do that in the NFL. Even if this is
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: the pre-free agency era, right? Like the Steelers managed to
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: do this because they had that unreal draft run, right?
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Where they were just out here drafting Swann, Stallworth, Elsie Greenwood, Melville.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Just everybody.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: Hall of Fame draft classes, right? Hall of Fame draft classes, right.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Right, like with three or four at the same time, right?
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, maybe you can pull this. But by the 90s,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: you're not supposed to be able to just say, how
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: about we just line them up and see who's best?
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: What do you say?
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: I like our guy's chances. Go ahead. That's cute. That's cute.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Go ahead. That's cute. Oh, your little run defense. Oh,
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: that's cute. Have you seen my offensive line?
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Yo, Jimmy's shit is like, we could have won this
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: if it was tech bowl bowl, right? If we got
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: four plays and y'all got four plays and you just
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: got to figure out what four plays we're going to,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: we're going to run, right? We'll beat everybody that way.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: If you want it, if that's how you want to
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: do it, we'll do it. And the other interesting part
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: to me, and of course, like you have Aikman, you
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: have Emmett Smith, you have Michael Irvin, right? Those three
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: hall of famers that would, you know, talk about it
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: here about the offensive line and everything else. But when
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: you really stop and think about them, especially on defense,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: that wasn't about superstars. Like, who do you think is
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: the best of that run? I guess they went and
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: got Charles Haley, and that's an interesting one. But he's
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: a guy that I don't count in a way because
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: he's not one of the dudes that came through the
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: rise of what this team was.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Like, who's the best of those defensive guys? Is it
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Russell Maryland? Like, who are we talking about? Jim Jeffcoat?
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: Ken Norton, maybe?
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Ken Norton, yeah.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: In that vein, right.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: We're not talking about Hall of Fame players.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I think that's a big part of why there's the
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: push for Darren Woodson.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Often is because somebody over here has got to be
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: a hall of famer, right? Even that offensive line, Larry
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Allen went to the hall of fame, but he was
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: only on one of those Superbowl teams. Like the, while
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: they had better players, it also was a case that
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: the sum was greater than the whole of the, the
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: Right. Right.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: I almost had a George W. Bush moment right there.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: I'm sure a saying in Tennessee too.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. But they had a collection of guys. Now,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: you had dudes like Eric Williams, Nate Newton.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: They had guys. I'm not saying the guys weren't good.
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: And they had guys that might not have been Hall
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: of Famers, but they were perennial Pro Bowlers. You look
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: at the 90s teams, whenever you would have, because whenever
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: I would play Tecmo Bowl or whatever... And every year
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: it's either it's the full NFC Pro Bowl is Cowboys
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: in the 49ers. Like that was that was in the 90s.
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: So like you said, even though they weren't Hall of Famers,
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: those guys up and down the line, whether it was
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: offensive line or some of the defensive guys were still
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: Pro Bowl caliber players.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Wouldn't that still matter?
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they they they they did a lot. They got
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of it done at one time. And coming
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: up next, we'll talk about the next fun part of
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: it is we'll talk about. Obviously, you got Aikman, you
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: got Smith, you got Irvin. But what you also have
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: is the personality of this team, which is kind of
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: unlike anything we've seen since.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Coming up next.
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• 27:57
  Speaker 1: All right, we are back with Shannon Penn talking about
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: the Cowboys dynasty of the 1990s. One thing that's always
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: very interesting to me is hearing Troy Aikman talk about
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Michael Irvin. And the recognition of Michael Irvin as leader
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: and the importance of having Michael Irvin to him as
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: a quarterback.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Because if you go back and look at the numbers for.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Those Cowboys teams, basically, if they were passing the ball,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: they were throwing the ball to Michael Irvin.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: We're like, you got to remember, they didn't pass the
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: ball much.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: And Troy Aikman had one season over 20 touchdowns in
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: his whole career.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Fun fact that people do not know. But Michael Irvin
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: was by and large getting his numbers.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: And you've seen that clip where he talks about where
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: he got to cuss and explain to them dudes, I.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Played when there was pain. And that's real, right? Like
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: nobody in the league anymore.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: There used to be a league where, what do you
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: say about that guy? Man, he make the hard catches.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: there aren't hard like we don't i'm not saying catches
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: are easy now but we don't have like them hospital
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: balls ain't what they were back in the day michael
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: irvin made the hard catches on a team where everybody
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: knew that the ball was going to.
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: Him absolutely and that's the thing too with with irvin
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: and obviously we'll get to jerry but But Irvin was
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: the spirit of those teams. Like, even– I mean, he
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: was on those bad Cowboys teams. Like, he was the
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: spirit of it. So then when they then brought in Jimmy,
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: they were able to usher in some of that same–
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: that spirit and emotion that you saw Jimmy have and
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: Irvin have with those Miami teams.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: And then he brought that– and.
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: That leadership value, too, that leadership aspect to the Cowboys
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: when they were starting.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: To get good.
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: You know, given– the Aikman, that confidence when he knew
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: the head coach didn't have that with him, but still
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: giving him the confidence.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: And of course he's a playmaker.
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: So when he knew he was getting the ball going,
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: the ball was going to him, he was going to
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: make the plays because they weren't throwing at a time.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: I think that Michael Irvin has an argument for being
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: like culturally a The most significant football player that there
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: has ever been. Not saying he is all the way,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: but he has an argument like we don't. The line
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: I've used is like, what if Jalen Rose was a
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: first ballot Hall of Fame type of player?
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: So think about this.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: The influence of the university of Miami on the culture
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: of college football, right? Like that was, it takes a
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: nation of billions to hold us back type shit where
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: they were like this, they became something in the NCAA
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: was like, this has to stop.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: And this has to stop right now.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: But the truth is, the dominant culture in football really
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: over the last 35 years has been the culture of
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: the state of Florida, right? Like when you started looking
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: around and looking up and it's all these dudes with
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: goals and all these dudes who dread like Florida became
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the football when Atlanta became the rap.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Like it was, it influenced everything it touched. And even
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: if Michael Irvin.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Did not fit the archetype of that, the attitude of
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Florida of state of Florida football was the attitude of
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: the university of Miami, even Florida state, which was mean
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: trafficking and very similar players and billy bobby bowden was
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: a very live and let live sort of dude no
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: no no no it was the miami hurricane starting really
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: in 1985 right that's the year they went to oklahoma
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: it would have punked them at midfield right that is
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: the beginning of the u era as far as i'm
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: concerned and the personification of that is Michael Irvin, right?
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Like, of course, you had Melvin Bratton, you had Alonzo Highsmith.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: It's not like there aren't other dudes.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: But Irvin then takes this to the NFL and the
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Cowboys become the Miami of this. And I think, yes,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: some of that's about Jimmy because Jimmy kind of liked
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: that stuff. Jimmy enjoyed, like, running up the score on
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: people and everything else.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: But no, no, no.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: The center of this is Michael Irvin. And a big
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: part of that is, is Michael Irvin will tell you
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: he's a winner, dawg. Everything around Michael Irvin, man, that
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: dude worked hard. That dude put in the grind. That
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: dude did the difficult.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Things, right? That dude had a, shall we call it,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: savvy understanding of power dynamics.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Who to push.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Back on and who not to push back on and
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: the likes and everything else. But the truth is, he
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: was every bit as good as he said he was.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: In a way that was like old school, very old school.
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: And like this whole Cowboys thing don't hit without Michael Irvin.
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: Like it don't hit in the same way. Not saying
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: they wouldn't have been good. It don't hit the same
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: way because like he brought that The confidence. I'm not
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: going to use the word swagger because that gets you overused.
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: But he brought that confidence and that standard to the Cowboys. Like, hey,
• 32:38
  Speaker 5: like you said, I'm a winner and we should be winning.
• 32:41
  Speaker 5: And I'm not going to accept anything less than winning. Like, yes,
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: you might seem loud or whatever, but I'm putting in
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: the work. And why aren't you putting in that same
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: level of work? Because I'm about winning, dog. So if
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: you ain't about winning, we bring in a coach who's
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: about winning, who's about to do anything possible to get
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: these dubs.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: And he handed Jimmy Johnson a list of the dudes
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: that needed to go.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: When he shows up, he was like, these guys are losers.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: And we need to get them out of here. Because
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: that was the thing about the Canes. Look, man, one
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: thing about that Miami era we don't talk enough about
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: is they suffered some horribly embarrassing losses along the way.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: There's the 92 Sugar Bowl.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: There's the 85 Sugar Bowl against Tennessee where they lost
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: like 38 to 9. There's the 86 Fiesta Bowl, you know,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: where they took that L. They Michael Irvin been through
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: some football things.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Like he got in.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: He got that national championship in 87. They didn't get
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: in 86 where they were supposed to.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: And I remember him after that game in 86 being
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: out there doing the interviews after they had been so
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: obnoxious the whole way and like owning the fact that
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: they did not get it. Like that dude learned the
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: hard way what it takes in order to get it.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: He suffered through a one in 15 season. in the NFL.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: He went through all of that, and man, he was good.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Like, I just can't, and again, not in a way
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: where you're going to see, like, unreal footage of how
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: good he was.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: It's just going to be like, damn, he caught another one, huh?
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: And that's the thing, because it wasn't the cumulative numbers. Like,
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: it was the important, like, the playmaker. Like, it was
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: making plays when they counted most, because he wasn't going
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: to put up numbers because they didn't pass at the
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: same level as some of the other receivers of his time.
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: But it was like, all right, we need a big play,
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: big third down. Let's go to Michael Irvin. You saw
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: it in some of those 49er games. You saw it
• 34:26
  Speaker 5: in some of those playoff games against the Packers.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: Hey, we need a big catch. Hey, go to Michael Irvin.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Hey, when there was pain.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: He's like, these little youngsters, you are not going to
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: minimize this bang eight, dog.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: No, sir.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: When there was pain. Then we also have Emmitt Smith.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: And as I look back on it, I don't think
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: we gave Emmitt Smith enough credit at the time. And
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: I think especially because Barry Sanders looks so incredible that,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: you know, the argument very frequently was, well, what if
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Barry Sanders got to play behind the Cowboys offensive line,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: which is fair. I also think that the Lions were
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: better in that era than the, they got credit for
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: being with Barry Sanders. Like they were not, this was
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: not the Joey Harrington lions that he was playing for.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: They were not great, but they were not, they were
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: not abject, right? Like he was not just out there
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: entirely by himself, but that is the comparison that Emmitt
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Smith always had to deal with.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: And it was almost held against him that he was
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: so durable, right?
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Like the, you could just keep giving them the ball,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: but if a hole was there, he was going to
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: hit it and he was going to hit it quick.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: And next thing you know, like you don't become the
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: all time leading rusher in the history of NFL. without
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: being a beast. You don't win a Russian title in
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: 14 games without being an actual factual beast.
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: Right. And, too, because it didn't look like Barry Sanders did.
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: Like I mentioned before, when we out here in the
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: streets playing, if you were quarterback, you wanted to be Montana.
• 35:57
  Speaker 5: If you were wide receiver, you wanted to be Rice.
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: If you were running back, you wanted to be Barry Sanders.
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: No one, and I mean it, no one was out
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: there saying, yo, I'm Emmitt Smith.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: Like, look, you weren't the Cowboys in the 90s.
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: No one wanted to be Emmitt Smith, but he just
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: went about his business because he didn't look like Barry Sanders.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Well, especially if you playing against like an imaginary person,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying?
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Like all you're doing is just running in straight lines
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: if you're Smith. Like you're Barry Sanders, you're out here spinning,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: you know, like unreal stuff. That's all I'm talking about.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine going in the backyard pretending to be
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Tom Brady. What, just standing there?
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: Right, exactly.
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: Like I'm not out here in the streets like being
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: applauded for being a patient running back.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: No. I'm out here juking. I'm trying to break ankles.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Nah, that dude was so good. All that dude was
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: so good. And he has, for me, one of the
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: most memorable running back games ever. And it's the type
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: of game that nobody is ever going, why you doing that?
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Why you doing that?
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: Why you doing that? I want to see which game
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: you're referring to.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Why you doing that?
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: I got a feeling I know which one it's going
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: to be, but go ahead. Go ahead. Tell us, Bo.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: Which game is it?
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: It is the type of a gladiator performance that we
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: don't see from running backs anymore. And it is the
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: last game of the season at Giant Stadium, 1993.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Smith and the Giants.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: And sometime toward the end of the first half, I
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: believe it was, they threw him and Smith on the ground.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: He had a separated shoulder that he clearly could not
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: move at all. He could only move it enough to
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: take a handoff, basically. And they tied that arm up,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: a la Lawrence Taylor in the Superdome against the Saints.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: And they just kept giving the ball to Emmitt Smith
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: over and over again in the second half and just
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: pounded the Giants to win the NFC East and ultimately
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: go win the Super Bowl.
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: How you let this dude with one arm beat you?
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: That was my thing. I gave no credit, no praise
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: to Emmitt Smith. My thing was I was so pissed
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: off and annoyed. You knew he was hurt. Everybody knew.
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: And you let this dude with one arm beat you.
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: And it wasn't like they kept feeding him with one arm.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: What are you doing? No strip. You couldn't punch him. Nothing.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: What are we doing here?
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: First of all, you have to be that dude for
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: them to be like, I know you got one arm.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: And we still going to give you the ball.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: And we still going to beat them dudes. They still.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine how insulting that was.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: Bro, like, try to explain that.
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: It's like you feel like you're the damn Harrison Ford
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: in The Fugitive. Like, yo, we just lost to a
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: one-armed man. Like, what are we out here doing? Like,
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: come on.
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: Like, what?
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: To this day, bro. To this day.
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: That's how I knew exactly what game he was talking about.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Like, he had one hand, man, and one arm.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: So the thing is, I knew you would know what
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: game it was.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: I did not know, however, what an acute memory it
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: was for you.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: No, it wasn't like he was rotating the ball.
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: He kept the ball in the same strong hand because
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: he couldn't put it in his other hand.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: You knew that. And you still allowed it to happen.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Hey, Jess.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: Like.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: There's nothing more demoralizing, and that's something this generation will
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: never understand than the good old nine-minute drive.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: You remember back when it would just be nine-minute drives?
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: Demoralizing.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: We're just going to line up in the eye, and
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: we're going to pound y'all over and over again.
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: And that and that's worse like if you if it's
• 39:24
  Speaker 5: a big play drive like there's a shock value to
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: it like i can't believe it just happened and you
• 39:28
  Speaker 5: move on i'll be getting the ball back when you
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: have these demoralizing eight nine minute long drives and you
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: just beat down to hell and and you got your
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: third team defensive lineman out there because the other guys
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: are winded and.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: They still just giving it to you.
• 39:43
  Speaker 5: And then you turn around and look, and it's a
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: one-armed man that's doing it to you.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: On national television. On national television, too.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Everybody saw it.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: I was so.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: And the Giants weren't supposed to be good that year.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: I think that was Dan Reed's first year.
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Either way, y'all thought y'all was.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Going to win a division, and y'all didn't.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: Should have won a division.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Could have won a division, except for the fact that
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Emmitt Smith was that dude that day.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: It was that dude that day. And keep in mind,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: his shoulder didn't get unseparated, right? I guess they got
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: a bye week, but they went and won the Super
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Bowl again. And that was the one.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: They beat the 49ers in the 92 season. And that
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: was a... They beat them at Candlestick Park. It felt
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: like a changing of the guard, but it didn't feel
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: fair to call it a change of the guard.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: The 49ers had already been down for a year.
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: Um.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: The 49ers were the best team in the NFC that
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: regular season. It was like, okay, you won the game.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: 93?
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: 93 felt like a change into the guard.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: That was different. Beat them. That was different. That was different.
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: And I think a lot of that, too, came from
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: that winning. More than even the Super Bowl. It was
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: beating the 49ers in 92. And it was like, oh,
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: there's nobody out here that can beat us.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: Like, yeah.
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: From that 92 NFC Championship on, it was like, oh,
• 41:06
  Speaker 5: this is different.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: Like, this is different. It don't matter what you guys doing.
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: Y'all not beating us.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And they weren't.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Like, I remember there was a play. I think it
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: was to Ricky Waters. And this is what I knew.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: It was like, oh, man, y'all just finished.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: It was a toss play to Ricky Waters or a handoff.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: I can't remember which.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: But they got him at the line and drove him
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: back like seven yards. And it would have been forward progress,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: except he kept his balance and then tried to run again.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: And they took them down, and it's just like, damn,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: y'all look like, y'all feel.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Like the Bad News Bears out here now. And y'all
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: the 49ers. Right, right, right.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Like the gold standard of the NFL for a team
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: that won 10 games like 14 years in a row,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: you know, in nine strike seasons.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: They were the gold standard. The Cowboys was like, nah,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: it's a snap.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: And two, just how it lined up time-wise, but you
• 42:00
  Speaker 5: had obviously the 49ers being the team of the 80s
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: and just how it lined up would it be in
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: the early 90s. It very much felt like a change
• 42:08
  Speaker 5: of the garden, not just on the field, but off
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: the field as well. I know we'll get into the
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: the off the field stuff with the Cowboys, but it
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: really did feel like, oh, this is about, this is
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: what the nineties is supposed to, is going to look like.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: Like it very much felt that way.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Right. Cause it was very clear that like Jerry Rice
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: did not like the Cowboys get down.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Which led to something very interesting because 94 is when
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Deion Sanders goes to play for the 49ers. He has
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: his best season. He is defensive player of the year.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: The 49ers were the best team in the NFC. They
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: ultimately beat the Cowboys and, in the NFC championship game.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: This is also after we have so many things that
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: we could have gotten to, but Jimmy Johnson getting fired
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: by Jerry Jones because Jimmy was being disrespectful and Jerry
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: had enough of it.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: It's really the best way to put it, right?
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Like Jimmy say, they say they have the owners meeting
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: and Jimmy pulls up to a table to talk to
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: guys and Jerry's there. I mean, Jerry pulls up and
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Jimmy's there. and Jerry speaks to Jimmy, and Jimmy don't
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: say nothing.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: In front of people.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you gonna get fired for that, right?
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: Like, you can't do this in front of Nick's company?
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Like, yo!
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: You can't be out here embarrassing me.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can make the argument that maybe Jerry should
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: have put up with it, but I understand why he didn't, right? Like,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: I think I've always felt as though there was a
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: limited shelf life on what Jimmy was doing, and the nature,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: and the way that he motivated people, and the incredibly
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: harsh way that he dealt with people. His belief that
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: fear was the greatest motivator. It was a very collegiate
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: style that only goes so far with grown men, right?
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: After a while, that was going to run out of rope,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: no matter what. Now, I don't know if it was
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: going to run out of rope by 1994, but at
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: some point it was going to go too far. But 94,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: they bring Switzer in. And the truth is, the 49ers
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: went up like 14-0 mad early.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: In that game. And that margin wound up being what mattered.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Um, the Cowboys did not play a bad game after that,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: but Dion going to the 49ers, Jerry didn't really like
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: him when he was, didn't like Dion when he was there.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Cause Dion's whole steez is the opposite of the 49ers
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: steez and the Jerry Rice steez. But at that point,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Dion Sanders was the best defensive player at football. He
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: was the defensive player.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Of the year.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: And I mean that, that 94 team was loaded. Like
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: your second best defensive back was Tim McDonald. Your third
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: best was Merton Hanks.
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: And Deion and Jerry Wright-Snew, too, was like, look, I
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: don't get down the way he get down, but in
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: order for us to beat.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: This juggernaut that's on the other side of Dallas Cowboys,
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: because that's all that was.
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: Getting Deion was all about beating the Cowboys that year.
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: That's all it was. It was like, we need this
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: dude to play at this level. We need an athlete
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: like this to play at this level to beat these dudes.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: That's what that was.
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: But think about, man, they got Ken Norton also that year.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: That was Bryant Young's rookie year. They had Dana Stubblefield.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: On defense, they were loaded. Offense, he's talking about Ricky Waters,
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Will Floyd, Jerry Rice still at the peak of his powers.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Steve Young, the best that he has ever been. I mean,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of really good football players on
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: the field in that game. And the 49ers got it.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: They won it.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: They went to the Super Bowl, and that was just, whew. Boy,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: that was comical. Steve Young threw for six touchdowns. And
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: then Deion comes to the Cowboys. And the truth is,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: Deion Sanders on the Cowboys, to me, is kind of
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: like when James Harden went to the Rockets. Not so
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: much when James Harden went to play for the Rockets,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: the basketball team, but.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: When he went to Houston.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: And James Harden's whole life, he thought he was a
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: California dude.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: And then he got to Houston and was like, wait
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: a minute. This is what I am, right? Deion Sanders
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: was always a Dallas Cowboy. He just had not played
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: for them yet. Like the time, the pairing of Deion
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: with the Cowboys was, yep, this is what this was
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: always supposed to be.
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: It was, I mean, pun intended, but it was prime time.
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: Like it felt like it was must-see TV. Like the
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: Cowboys were the Cowboys in the personality, but then when
• 46:09
  Speaker 5: you add Deion, it's like, oh, we need to watch
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: every game.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: Like every game. It was big.
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: You also had in that year, too, because you had Deion.
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: You had the Jerry Jones Nike deal. You had the
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: Jerry Jones Pepsi deal around that same time as well.
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: It's like everything that they're doing is elevated to be like,
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: there's levels to this. It's like, y'all here in the NFL, Cowboys,
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: we're here. This is different. This is before reality TV.
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: This is making sure that the Cowboys were going to
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: be the 24-hour news cycle before such a thing really
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: even existed to the extent that it does now. It's
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: like year-round, it was like, all right, what are the
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: Cowboys doing?
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: Good, bad, or indifferent?
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: They were larger than life. And then we start talking about,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: you know, the White House, right?
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: And all those things that then go around it. They
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: were large in their life.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: And I think this is also in line, not directly
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: tied to the Miami influence of Michael Irvin, but also
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: a similarity between them, which is, and look, the Cowboys
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: had some of this going in the 70s also, but
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: it's one thing to be the best team in the league,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: but this had the college renegade energy to it of,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: they weren't cheating, but it felt like they was cheating, right?
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: And they be into stuff.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: College football is all about the good teams also being
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: into stuff.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: They was into stuff.
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: It's interesting you make that point because it felt like
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: for those Cowboys teams, there was a different set of
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: rules for the Cowboys than there were other teams in
• 47:30
  Speaker 5: the NFL.
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: It's like you're allowing these guys to get away with.
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: Stuff, some on the field, but mostly off the field that, hey,
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: it would be frowned upon with other teams. The concept
• 47:41
  Speaker 5: and idea of having a White House in itself You
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: wouldn't fathom that happening in a Green Bay, Wisconsin, or
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: the 49ers with their culture.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: But for Dallas, hey, that was accepted.
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: It was very much like you still had a lot
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: of the remnants of the outlaw, renegade vibes of those
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: University of Miami teams, which goes back to our point
• 48:03
  Speaker 5: earlier of the micro-urban influence.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: The White House, which, by the way, is the name
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: of Michael Irvin's new podcast. Did you see where he
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: was like, I ain't done cocaine in 20 years, but
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: it ain't no five-hour cocaine. If you got some five-hour cocaine,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: let me know. I'm like, partner, I don't know nothing
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: about this.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: Right? Like, I ain't.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Know nothing at all.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Because here's the thing about Michael Irvin when it comes
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: to something like cocaine, right? The thing about Michael Irvin
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: and the cocaine is, only problem cocaine caused Michael Irvin,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: as far as we know, was getting arrested. Like he
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: was still coming to work all time. He was still
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: on his grind. He was like, I see no reason
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: to change anything about my lifestyle. But after that Super Bowl,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: the last one, Super Bowl 30 in Arizona over the Steelers. Honestly,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: the part that's interesting in that is that they didn't
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: play the 49ers in the conference championship game that year.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Instead, they played the Green Bay Packers.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: And it becomes a very interesting point of comparison because
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: the Packers had Brett Favre on one side, Reggie White
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: on the other. They had an argument that they had
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: the two best players in the NFL at that point.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: And they had a nice run after this, right? Couple
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Super Bowls, all that. man it paled in comparison to
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: what we're talking about here with these Dallas Cowboys and
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: the Packers are a pretty big deal around the country
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: it was nothing like this but 96 is when Michael
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Irvin gets arrested and you remember they had to picture
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: that big old rock that they found in the hotel
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: and rot was like this big. I'm not exaggerating. Like
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: rot don't even feel like the right word. It felt
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: like a boulder looking.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: Like a pebble.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Like this giant ass rot that he had that they
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: busted him with. And you watched the Netflix doc, right?
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: The part where Michael Irvin explains, and I need you
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: guys to understand this. This trial was in Dallas. It's
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: in March. Michael Irvin is making an appearance for the
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: grand jury. He shows up in a full length mink.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: Michael Irvin lives in Dallas. Michael Irvin is from Miami.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Why does Michael Irvin have a mink? Apparently, just in
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: case he had to go before.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: The grand jury.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: And he explained in that documentary that he did that
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: because the district attorney came to him and told Michael
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: Irvin that he felt like Michael Irvin was taking these
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: white girls and getting them on this dope and corrupting them.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: And therefore, this white man was going to put him
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: in jail. And Michael Irvin told him that after this
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: was over, somebody was still going to pay him a
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: million dollars to catch a football. And your little short
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: ass is still going to be, I can't even remember
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: the rest. But Michael Irvin said that about that mink,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: and I quote, it was necessary.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: Very much like that too and i believe him 100.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: It was that's let me tell you something it was
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: absolutely necessary and by the way michael lerman is an
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: articulate enunciating motherfucker right he's like absolutely yes to see
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: he gets every he gets everything out of every syllable
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: it was necessary That was what the Cowboys were at
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: this point because now they're Barry Switzer's Cowboys. This is
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: when Barry Switzer gets caught at the airport with the
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: tool in the bag. This is around this time. This
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: is who they were at this point. This is the
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: part behind the music where now the records, they sell
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: it like they used to.
• 51:51
  Speaker 5: They reached their heights and then you start seeing the
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: signs where it's starting to turn.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Rob Markman Right.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Well, like in 96, they put out a top five record,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying?
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: But it didn't get to number one.
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: Rob Markman It was cool. It felt like them, but
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: it wasn't really the same. I mean, it's cool. I mean,
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: it's home again. It ain't really any heartbreak. It's cool.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: You got to hit me off.
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: It's cool.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: Rob Markman It ain't getting back to the top, right?
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: They....
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: It has some jams on it, right?
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: There's no question. It has some songs. But it ain't
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: get back to the top. And then 97, basically, it's over. 97,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: they missed the playoffs.
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: Like, it's a wrap. Barry Switzer's fired. Like, what's Changeli, yo, Coach, man?
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: You know. It felt very white flag-ish.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: Just what it is.
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: I think the full end is in 99.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, I mean, the full end, to me, truly, like, honestly,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: as a dynasty, it had been over. But the true
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: end is when Michael Irvin, you know, hurts his neck
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: in Philadelphia. Like, that's where we're like, we're not even
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: talking about this really anymore. Aikman retired in 2000. So
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Irvin gets hurt in 99, Aikman retires in 2000. It's
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: just like, no, this is a wrap.
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: And you had Deion dealing with the turf toe at
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: the same time, too. That's right. And you had Deion
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: not really being what Deion is. Deion was.
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: Offensive line, as we talked about, wasn't the same offensive
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: line that they had in the early 90s. So you
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: saw the decline from not only the top tier players
• 53:19
  Speaker 5: and what happened there, obviously with Irving and Deion was injury,
• 53:25
  Speaker 5: but also you didn't see the depth and the talent
• 53:27
  Speaker 5: anymore as well.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, we ain't talked that much about
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: Troy Aikman in this, and that's no shade to Troy Aikman.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: Troy Aikman was a very good quarterback on a very
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: good team, and We'll never know just how good Troy
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Aikman was because it never came up. But I will
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: say once again, Troy Aikman threw 20 touchdowns once. I'm
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: not making this number up, guys.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: Right. All right.
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: Well, so here we talk. We talk about other flints
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: in Rome. We didn't get to Aikman, but the biggest
• 53:57
  Speaker 5: elephant we got it. We got to address when it
• 54:00
  Speaker 5: comes to Dallas Cowboys. They really have it like the
• 54:03
  Speaker 5: Jerry factor in all of this.
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: Like the Jerry, the Jerry factor. The P.T.
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: Barnum style that was Jerry Jones in all of this,
• 54:13
  Speaker 5: I think on the field aside, I think all of that,
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: the extra stuff is what separated the Cowboys and why
• 54:21
  Speaker 5: their dynasty, that 90s run is looked at so differently
• 54:25
  Speaker 5: compared to some of the other dynastic runs that we've
• 54:27
  Speaker 5: seen over time. because it was so different. It really
• 54:31
  Speaker 5: was like it, it made people care about the Cowboys
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: in a way that had absolutely nothing to do with
• 54:37
  Speaker 5: the on field performance, whether it was the more spotlight,
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. It was like I mentioned, the
• 54:44
  Speaker 5: Nike deal, the Pepsi deal, the commercials, the personalities, the riffs,
• 54:49
  Speaker 5: like all of that stuff. It goes back to a
• 54:52
  Speaker 5: lot of it with the branding goes back to Jerry Jones.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: The moment I will never forget is in 94, Jerry debuted,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: they had these double star jerseys. Because the Cowboys have
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: basically worn the same jerseys since, as long as I
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: can remember, right? And you'll see they wear these throwback
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: jerseys now, but these were different. This is the throwback
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: year where everybody was wearing their throwbacks, but they broke
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: out a whole new jersey, right? It had a star here,
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: it had a star there. It was like the double
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: star jersey. And when it was time to break and
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: debut those jerseys, I'll never forget. Modeling that jersey was
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Jerry Jones. Jerry Jones was in a full uniform, pads
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: and all. And he pulled up on NBC or Fox,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: one of those, in the jersey as the model for it.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: He was a football player. He played on a national
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: championship football team. He saw himself as a football man.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: His inspiration is Al Davis, right? Who was a football
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: man who was very involved in football in that way.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: And Jerry wanted to feel like, or believe that he
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: should be involved in the football of it all. But
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: also he decided we're going to make this thing really big.
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: And he did make it really big.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Now the question of course, for people is, did he
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: make it big at the expense of the football?
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: It seems easy to make that connection, but I can't
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: even say he changed the gang because nobody else has
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: tried to do it like him. George Steinbrenner was living
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: a very similar sort of life, except Jerry never seemed unhinged.
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: Steinbrenner with the military background was very much regimented, obviously,
• 56:44
  Speaker 5: with the facial hair policy, and that's some of the
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: thing where he had respect for the past, but It
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: was really with Steinbrenner, it was a little too traditional
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: when it came to that team. Where Jerry was like, hey,
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: nobody else is doing this.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: Let's try this.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Well, also, yeah, Jerry's not a bad guy. Like, Jerry
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: didn't put a P.I. on any of his players to
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: try to take them down.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Like Steinbrenner, you know? Like, you know? But you're right.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: He is no agent. And it's funny, no owner anywhere.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Decided to kick it like jerry like nobody ever really
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: kicked it like al davis i mean i'm a big
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: i mean al hung on a little bit too long
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: with what he was doing but i don't god i
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: love al there's the idea of al davis is amazing
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: to me and i mean i mean al.
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: Davis had the overhead projection presentation when he did he
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: did and.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: He was right everything he said was right The thing
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: with Al Davis though, I see what makes Al interesting
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: or different to me than Jerry is I, I believe
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Al Davis was a genius. I do not believe that
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Jerry Jones was like, I think that Al Davis had
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: a vision for his franchise.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Like when you think about all the things.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: That Al Davis did, like Al Davis was, Al Davis
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: had a hand in the football. Al Davis came up
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: with all those slogans and sayings that would be around
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: the field. He changed the colors of the jerseys to
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: silver and black, um, not just involving the football, a
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: very clear philosophy. I talked to somebody who worked at
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: like the Raiders store in the mall in Sacramento and
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Al was coming in looking at the merchandise and set
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: up and all of that stuff, right? Like Jerry, I
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: felt like is a great promoter. And his thing was
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: the NFL has a set of rules that are about
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: sharing the wealth, but we drive more wealth than anybody else.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: So we should get more wealth than everybody else, which is, Honestly,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: a violation of the principles that they had tried to enact.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: And like Al Davis, he decided to challenge it and
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: get the money that there was for the Cowboys because
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: he knew the Cowboys were different. He knew the Cowboys
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: were special. And for the Cowboys to be that girl,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: sometimes that girl got to act like that girl now,
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: don't she? You know, but he's it. And the truth is,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: he's the only common thread from the dynasty to now
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: but he's also the only common thread from the Dynasty
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: ending to now. He'll always be the person that we
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: associate what goes wrong with, right? And look, everybody's been
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: to the conference final, a conference championship game, except for what,
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: them and the Texans?
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: Sounds about right.
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: Like pick a team out ahead.
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because even Jacksonville's made it.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: Jacksonville's made it twice.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: Twice, yeah.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: The Jets have made it twice.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: The Lions have made it. Everybody done got, the Cardinals
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: have been to a Super Bowl. Oh, hold on, hold on.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: Forgot about the Browns. That's on me. That's on me.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: Thanks. One day, one day.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: By the way, you see, they're.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: Going to send the Saints and the Browns over to
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Paris to play. And aside from the fact that that
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: football ain't going to be it, I was hoping it
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: would be the Falcons and the Saints so that Newt
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: could go. You understand what I'm saying? We could make
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: that trip.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: No, no.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: You can't have the Falcons in the Saints. You can't
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: have that in front of company.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: With the Falcons in the Saints, you can't have that.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I tell you this, though. Instead, you're going to
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: get a bunch of people from Cleveland.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: It's going to be fun for New Orleans folks to
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: go there because I went to Paris and finally New
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: Orleans made sense.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: That's what I was going to say. It I'm sure
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: they picked the Saints because of the whole French, you know.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Saints had been pushing for that. Like they
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: had been trying to get that. I don't know how
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: we wound up there, but oh well, it happens.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 5: All right, there's one more factor too I had to
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 5: bring up with the Cowboys. And a lot of this
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 5: is because of Jerry Jones and the promotion to P.T. Barnum,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 5: as I mentioned before. It's Cowboys fans. Like, I know
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 5: I'm one to talk as a Knick fan.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: Like, I get it. I get it.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: But Cowboy fans, and that's part of it, too, when
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: we go back to the 90s that made them insufferable.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 5: But Cowboy fans, like, they all... Cowboys fans insist upon themselves,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: to borrow a term from Peter Griffin. Like, this got
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 5: nothing to do with y'all, but y'all somehow, someway still
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: find yourself trying.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: To put yourselves in these conversations. This ain't got nothing
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: to do with you.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: What is this in this case?
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: Everything. Everything in life.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: Like, dog, next year's going to be our year. Dog,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: the only way we're going to see your Super Bowl
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 5: winners on VHS. somehow you're still inserting yourselves. Like, honestly,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 5: it still feels like a celebratory moment on social media
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: when the Cowboys lose. It still has that feel. And
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 5: we are 30 years removed from them winning the Super Bowl.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 5: It's like Cowboy fans always, I don't know if it's
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 5: worse now because they're delusional now or the 90s when
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 5: they were actually good. Like, for me, it's just Cowboy
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 5: fans still to this day. Maybe they've been humbled a
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 5: little bit.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: I doubt it. But Cowboy fans is probably the worst
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: part of all of this. All of it.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: I think they get a bad rap, man.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: They've been loyal and they've been dedicated to this sad
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: sack outfit. They don't get no payoff from it. They
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: keep coming back. They are Knicks fans now.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Y'all are the same.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: And that's the thing. They used to make the joke, well,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: you know, we've won champ. Well, it's been 30 years. Like,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: I get it. The Knicks have been 50 plus.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that might as well be the same.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: It's the same. Like, right. That's the thing.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 5: If I can't watch your Super Bowl or your championship
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 5: highlights in HD, then you're all in the same.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: We're grouping y'all in the same boat. If it ain't
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: in 4K, then we ain't the same.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: I knew you just wanted to get that in, so
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: I'm going to let you have it.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: I had to.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: Oh, my God. You know what I'm saying? Oh, my gosh.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: I had to.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: Hey, that is Shannon Pitt. Check out Freddie and Harry, Afternoons,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: ESPN Radio. My brother, I appreciate you.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: Yes, sir.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: Hey, and ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: us here on The Right Time. We do this three,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: four times a week. Ryan Brumley handles everything behind the scenes.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you, sir.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Hit the voicemail.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Line, 323-596-7767.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: By the way, Shannon Wright Fass, who the funniest name
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: that you could imagine in the Epstein Files?
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: Well, there were some reports that said it was a
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 5: couple of rappers, but I don't know how.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: True that was.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I say Tim Tebow.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: Nah, he was just praying, you know?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just saying. But if he turned up in there,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: that would be funny. That would be funny.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: He was just praying for him. That's all that was.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why he was on that one knee. Follow
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: the right time. Subscribe.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: Rate us. Review us. Give us five stars. Two knees
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: for Jesus. Only give us four stars. I'm inclined to
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: believe you are a hater. We'll talk to you guys
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: in a couple of days. Take it easy.