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The Big O Podcast - Episode #4: John Dennis · The Big O Podcast

• Glenn Ordway: Well, today we're going to reconnect with an old friend of mine, a guy who spent 20 years in the TV business, had great success, Emmys, terrific ratings. You know, he was a star in the community. He was Marvin Hagler's best friend. He had all of that going for him. And then suddenly, out of nowhere, decided, you know what? I want a career shift here, and I'm going to go into radio. Suddenly, he became very successful in radio, got terrific ratings. Didn't get a lot of awards. The Boston Globe apparently didn't feel he was deserving of one of those awards. And then suddenly, poof, Dino was gone. Except there was still the same guy on Twitter. And then that went silent. Well, silent no longer. Ladies and gentlemen, we reconnect today with John Dennis. Hey Dino, how you John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mr. Glen Glenn Ordway: doing? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Very good, Mr. Glen Overway. Great to be with you. You were you're my boyhood idol when I was growing up. I'm just kidding. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Now you're making me sound really old. Okay. Yeah. really old. So let's start at the beginning. You were doing T V, you came from Kansas City, because I remember when you came from Kansas City, was Gamir still working at Channel Seven? Did you replace Bob Gamir? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: yes he was. Yes he was. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: He was a piece of work, by the way. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: I was the weekend anchor and he was the Monday through Friday sports director at Channel Seven. It was WNEV then. They changed their call letters a couple of times after that, but yes, the the infamous great Gameer was still doing his thing with candlins for cash and a bunch of other stuff. Glenn Ordway: Candle Pins for Cash might have been the John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: hokiest TV show ever in the history of T V. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: And every interview to every single contestant had one single question. Who'd you bring with you? Yeah, my my aunt from Ravia and my uncle from Lintrap. Okay, go ahead and roll them. Glenn Ordway: So you have this illustrious twenty one year career in T V and suddenly did you make the decision to go to radio or did somebody else make the decision for you? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Well, actually Jason Wolf, the great Jason Wolf, contacted me and contacted Jerry Callahan and and had the brilliant idea. And most people thought he was nuts at that point, because Jerry was primarily a print guy with very little radio experience except for coming on your show as a you know as a guest. And and I had, you know, very little radio experience and was primarily a television guy. And Jason, in his kind of, you know, Dr. Frankenstein, let's concoct the monster here, decided to put Jerry and me together and very few people forget who it is we replaced on our debut at W Eye. Do you know who? Who? The fabulous sports babe. Who wasn't so fabulous? Glenn Ordway: You are I remember. Absolutely. Fabulous sports babe. Yeah, we put hold on, John, we put the two of you on and we dropped about two hundred and fifty pounds on the show. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yes, exactly. Glenn Ordway: She had she had it, hold on one second. She had an unbelievable act because she would get on the radio. It was radio. You couldn't see it. She had the sultry voice. It goes, and the John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Right. Yeah. Gotta fix it. Glenn Ordway: callers would call and it all be males. Hey baby, how you doing? People John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah, we wear it. Glenn Ordway: did not realize she was about four feet tall and about five feet wide. Right. And John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yes, yes, yes. Glenn Ordway: I it just I was amazed Nancy Dunellin is her name. She was terrific on the air, but she John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: was a national person. The station we had no money and we had to pick them up and we suddenly got some money and then they were able to put you and Jerry in midday. So go ahead, continue. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Well I was just gonna say back then the the old joke when we replaced her was, what's the difference between the fabulous sports babe and a sperm whale? The answer is you rarely see a sperm whale wearing a 3XL flannel shirt. Glenn Ordway: So you did mid how long did you guys do middays? A year? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: yeah, yeah, about a year. Maybe maybe maybe thirteen months, something like that. Glenn Ordway: So Imus is wearing out now. I mean, he's doing John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: yes. Glenn Ordway: morning drive. We needed him because I was program director when we first started in ninety five, ninety six, and we needed imus. Imus was doing morning drive, same thing with the fan in New York, sports the rest of the day. Imus John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Right. Glenn Ordway: in the morning. We needed him desperately. He was the biggest pain in the ass. He used to come to Boston, if you remember, on St. Patrick's Day, do his show at a hotel. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: And sit up on the stage and keep people away from him, right? Yeah. Nobody could go talk to him. Glenn Ordway: my God. I've never worked with a John, biggest primadonna ever. He John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm. Glenn Ordway: literally, this is this is something out of Hollywood that's almost a joke. He would send a list, okay, of all the things that he needed. And he literally had all blue MMs in a large bowl as one of the things he wanted. He wanted Marlboro cigarettes, but he only wanted them in the smaller hard pack, not the light. I mean, it was like The primadonna you wouldn't believe. And yet the people that worked on a show, who was the news guy? I can't remember. Wonderful, wonderful. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: yeah, I yeah, if you say his name I'll remember, yeah. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, what a wonderful guy. They were all the people in his crew couldn't have been nicer. And they just tolerated him. So they would say to me, don't worry, don't worry about it. First time he comes to Boston, he puts me on his show. And all he does is ridicule me for 10 minutes. What the hell are you doing? This stupid sport stuff. You sound like a fool on the radio in the afternoon. He just ridiculed me on our own radio station. So Imus is wearing out. Because people he's getting old, he's sounding old, he's making no sense. He's talking about these places that he's setting up for, you know, the kids home and it was all a a scam. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: the k the kids' home in Arizona? The ranch. Glenn Ordway: Yes, it was all a scam. And so anyway, they're gonna replace him, and the station says, We're having success with Dennison Callahan in midday. Let's move him to Morning Drive. So you moved John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Right. Glenn Ordway: to Morning Drive. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah, and and and that's a two edged sword because for the next twenty years of my life, Glenn, you know this, I had to get up at three forty-five in the morning. And and yeah, I I've said this before, but there are very few times in my life I've cried. I think the last time I cried is when my father died, and my mom before that. but there were mornings when the alarm would ring at three forty five that I literally would want to cry, that I just just so exhausted. And Jerry and I used to look at each other all the time and say, You know what? It wouldn't be bad going to prison. Because you could like sleep 12 hours a day in your cell. Because sleep was not a part of our lives. And think about this. This was well before DVD and DVR and all that came into effect. Glenn Ordway: yeah. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: So if you wanted to watch a Celtics game at night or a Red Sox game at night, or a Bruins game at night, you either had to stay up till, you know, 10:30 or 11 and then work on three or four hours sleep the next day, or fake your way through it and read the accounts the next day. Now, obviously, once, you know. digital recording took place. You could get up in the morning and scan through and see the highlights and all of that sort of stuff. But it was but the good thing is I never had to deal with Boston traffic for 20 years. My tire prints were the first ones in the snow every single morning of every single winter. No traffic in on the Southeast Expressway, because I I was living on the South Shore at that time, and no traffic going home because you're done at ten o'clock. But but the wake up call at three forty five was brutal. Glenn Ordway: So I remember the first thing I saw, and I can't remember who the media critic was. I didn't it was Jack Craig. First thing well, no, I I'm I'm talking about when you John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Jack Craig. Well, that was the one I was in T V. I don't know if it was it might have been Steve Baker. Glenn Ordway: started in radio, they did a big piece that first week when you guys were ready to make the switch to go to Morning Drive. And John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: you made the comment that I could not believe. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: And that was that you were going to change radio and raise. The bar. And I'm sitting there going, holy shit. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. boy. Glenn Ordway: Dino's got no fucking idea what he is getting himself into right now. And I know what you were doing. You were you were pleasing the media critic because that's what the media critics wanted. They wanted John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yes. Glenn Ordway: highbrow radio. They didn't want the sophomore, you know, stuff that you were doing for for males. And by the way, to make it clear. Because we were accused so many times, John, as you remember, of you know, why don't you do more women's sports? Why don't you do more stuff that appealed to women and whatever? We were John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Can you talk soccer? How about some soccer? Glenn Ordway: we were paid. We were paid to amass a male audience between the ages of twenty-five and fifty-four. That was our job. Now, I'll John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Correct. Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: explain how the business worked. It's a business of demos. It's not a mass audience. You don't go out there and say, we're just gonna grab all the listeners we can possibly get. Matty Siegel, his job was to grab, not grab physically, to attract 25 John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Women. Glenn Ordway: to 54 year old females over in KISS. That was his yeah, John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Right. And and then and then grab them. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: that was his job. So we we were all a demo geared business, and that's what we were doing. So it So I think we we all took the politically correct route when we were asked that question constantly. I remember critics constantly bringing it up. I'd say, We love women. I love women. You know, we want to have women listen to the audience, but our main focus is to get men. So you made that comment. First of all, tell me why you made that comment, because within two weeks after listening to you, you were not following that creed at all. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: All right, couple of things. First of all, there is no more misaligned term in the world than broadcasting when it comes to talk radio. It's narrow casting. You just described Glenn Ordway: Correct. Correct. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: it. I don't need to take it any further. But that's what we did. We were narrow casting to a certain segment. And I think probably what I did when I spoke to I guess it was Jim Baker probably when who did that piece. I'm not sure. what I should have said, and I misspoke, I should have said, we want to change the bar. And and my point was, what I what I meant to say, what I was trying to get across was we weren't going to do just sports. Jerry and I, with the help of Jason, Wolf, decided that it wasn't just going to be Red Sox, Bruins, Celtics, and Patriots, and every single day grind out four hours of that talk. We were going to do, and this was the term we used all the time, water cooler topics. Whatever people were talking about at the water cooler, at work, you know. In this day and age, it would be the Clancy trial, probably. I mean, obviously sports was the connecting thread with everything we did for the four hours, but we were we were willing and able and really wanting to to to open our, you know, embrace water cooler topics of things that people found interesting that didn't have anything to do with sports. And so when I said raise the bar, what I probably should have said was change the bar or move the goal line or something like that. And I'll tell you this, and and you'll appreciate this because I know you already know it. That statement, raising the bar, offended one person in particular and ruined a relationship that has been ruined until the day he passed recently. Eddie Andleman hated my guts for saying raise the bar because he thought I was taking a big steaming dump on his head and all the things that Glenn Ordway: He did, he was pissed. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: he had done on the sports huddle and WEI and all WHDH everywhere for all those years. And I wasn't doing that at all. I was just trying to say, we're going to do it a little differently. It's not going to be those four sports, it's going to be things that people want to talk about. And Eddie hated my guts from the day I walked into the building. Glenn Ordway: didn't you have a confrontation with him in the hallway, if I remember correctly? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. You got a good memory. Yeah, we d we hadn't spoken for, I don't know, a couple of years. And he was standing outside the studio. Glenn Ordway: So h so hold on, hold on. He's on the shift right after you. He's in midday. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yes. Glenn Ordway: You have to come out of the studio. He has to come into the studio and two years went by in which you did not speak? Wow. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Not a word. Not a word. Yeah, not a word. And on one particular occasion, he was standing outside the studio talking to one of the sales weasels. And I came walking out, and and he's standing like this, facing away from me, and I walk by, and he gives me a shoulder. He like shoulders me into the wall. And I said, What is your problem, old man? I said, you do not want to go to Mass General today. If you ever do that again, that's where you're gonna be headed. And that I think that was the last words we ever spoke. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, I'll save some of my Eddie stories for future episodes, but I do rem John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: May I just say this? Th there there is probably no one in the forty some years I've been in broadcasting whose broadcasting and public persona was more diametrically opposed, a hundred and eighty degrees, from what people thought about a person as opposed to what that person really was in real life. And he was the king of that. And that's all I'm gonna Glenn Ordway: All right, so John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: say. Glenn Ordway: yeah, I I I hear you. So now you're working with Jerry Callahan. You'd already spent a year with him, but you were talking sports in midday. You were not talking politics. You were not doing a headline segment. By the way, I John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Right. Glenn Ordway: think you're right. Morning Drive radio is much different on all sports radio stations right now. You're either talking pop culture or you're talking some John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Right. Glenn Ordway: politics, you're talking news, you're talking Lindsay Clancy. You know, it's it's different than the rest of the day when you're dealing with sports talk radio. So what was it like? Because Callahan from day one was extremely conservative, probably to the right of Attila the Hunt. Okay. You were not. I thought you John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Não. Glenn Ordway: were in conversations I had with you, because I'm probably more middle of the road, I would say, slightly right of s of center, slightly, and you were more aligned with me. But as I watched the transition over the years, I think you became far more conservative than Jerry. And I noticed it with a lot of your tweeting. I had mentioned at the beginning, you were tweeting, you were the mad tweeter out there at the end after John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: you had had left. And as I said, you've been silent. How long have you been silent on Twitter now? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Lord, well I got kicked off twice. I had I had thousands and thousands, Glenn Ordway: Yeah. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: thousands of viewers you know, followers, and and they tw they kicked me off the first time when I said Lester Holt on NBC News is a journalistic whore. And that got me kicked up. I lost all 75,000 Twitter followers. And then for some reason, like a few months later, I tried to start again, and I was up to like 10,000 at that point. And I forget what I said the second time. And they whacked me the second time. I said, I'm done. I'm out. I I don't need this anymore. But to your point, I I think you and I were very much aligned at the beginning. I'm I'm, you know, middle of the road, leaning a little bit right. But I think as with most people, the older you get, The wiser you get, the more taxes you pay the The less services you get for those taxes, the more conservative and right-leaning you become. And I think that's probably what happened to me. And of course, Jerry dragged me over to the dark side as well. Now it would have been better, it would have been better had I been, you know, like a Jim Brody or something, you know. so so I'd be on the one side and he'd be on the other. It'd be a great debate. But we were we couldn't do that. And and you know better than anybody. You can't fake who you are. Well, I guess some people can, who you are on the radio if you're speaking extemporaneously for four. Hours a day. And so it would have been disingenuous for me to take the left leaning topic side and to oppose Jerry's right leaning. So both of us were sort of kind of over on this side. And it would might have been better radio, might have been more confrontational, might have been more interesting had we been diametrically opposed, but we were not, and so we didn't want to fake it. And I will say this: people have asked me this in the past, we never once. At at 5 45 in the morning before we went on the air at 6 o'clock, said, You take this side and I'll take that side. And I don't even mean politics. I mean, you know, whether Nomar should have been dealt with one way or the other, or with Roger Clemens and the steroids. We never once in 20 years ever said, I'll take this side, you take that side. We let it happen and unfold organically on the air starting at 6 o'clock. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, it's interesting you you say that about political opposites. I think it would have worked in 2003, 2004. It wouldn't today, John. As you know, I I don't think you can put, we're so divided. I don't think John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm. Glenn Ordway: you can put somebody from the left, somebody from the right in the same room and John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Right. Glenn Ordway: not have, you know, blood on the wall John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Bloodshot. Glenn Ordway: after an hour. It doesn't work anymore. Everybody to the right stays with everybody to the right. Everybody in the left stays with every but you're right. 2003, 2004, there was dialogue across the the the the enemy lines. And and I think you're right, it might have been more interesting if one of you had an opposing view. You so you added sports, obviously. There was a lot of sports to the program, and you had Brady on the show. And you John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Sure. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: guys brought an awful lot out of Tom Brady. Now, there were times. And and Brady was great at this, as you know, of saying a lot and yet saying nothing. But every John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Right. Glenn Ordway: once in a while, you guys would get a gem out of out of Tom Brady. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: He was he was he was great to deal with and I was pleased and blessed to have him on our show I think twenty years his entire career basically, or once he became a starter, every Monday morning on Patriot Monday. And here's the funny thing and I think you know this. Once Jerry and my ratings began To be pretty good. And and the station was pleased with what we were doing. Every time Patriot Monday negotiations would come up with a general manager, we insisted in our contracts that we wanted Brady in the morning and we wanted nothing to do with Belichick. Because Glenn Ordway: Thanks. Thanks for that. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: I'm gonna do what's best for the team, and I'm gonna do it on the Cincinnati. Tom was engaging, you know, Tom was and even if he didn't say very much, you know, with a lot of meat and potatoes to what it is he said, he was conversational and he would tell us. things and tell stories and things like that. Belichick was I mean, I felt sorry for you having to deal with you know say pulling teeth for God's sake. And Jerry and I insisted that if we were gonna sign another contract, we had to have Brady on Monday morning. Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Yeah. Yeah, I know you were fighting for that. And obviously we had Belichick. And I did rem John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: my Glenn Ordway: I did remember, I did remember sitting down at one time with Bill and basically saying to him, you know, Brady gives an awful lot of information. And I said, becomes a little frustrating when we're asking you something. I think you're gonna give an answer, and I know you've got to protect certain, you know, the players and everybody else. But is there any way you could kind of just answer it John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: To loosen the fuck up a little bit. Glenn Ordway: a little bit differently as opposed to Glenn, we're not talking about that. We're on to San Diego, we're on to Indianapolis. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Glenn Ordway: And he gave me this whole lecture about how his job was to protect the players, protect the integrity of his team and that locker room. And it wasn't to give me answers. Matter of fact, John, when I was fired in two thousand and thirteen. Belichick was one of the last guests I had, and he did this whole Maya Kalpa on the air, in which he apologized to me for not being able to answer so many questions over the 20 years or whatever. We did the interview, and I'm saying, great, now John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I'm getting this. This is this is terrific. So that show became extremely successful. What was the relationship when the show was? peak and we'll get to later on. But when the show was peak, what was that relationship between you and Jerry? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: it was great. It was great. We we we rarely socialized and and maybe it was a geographical thing. You know, I'm on the South Shore, he was on the on the North Shore. Andover, North Andover, yeah, exactly. Glenn Ordway: He was up in like North Andover I'm saying. Yeah. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: but we got all on fine and and I couldn't have asked for a better partner, always well prepared, always knowledgeable. He would occasionally text me things at night and said, By the way, have you seen that this happened today or this happened tonight or whatever? And we would go back and forth. So I think it was a it was a great working relationship. It really was. And I enjoyed it. And we sort of went our separate ways after the Minahan, you know, inclusion in in the morning show. And that's a whole nother story. But we since sort of, you know, mended fences and come back together and text from time. to time and I think he and some of the WEEI people are coming to my new house next month for a little W EEI morning show reunion. Yeah. Yeah. Are you are you in town in October? Glenn Ordway: Wow wow. Wow. Wow. Can we can we get cameras in on that? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: No no no no you can't. No, no. Are you in town in October? Okay. Well then Glenn Ordway: I am not in town in October. I'll be in town for December and then we spend the summers obviously up in Boston because I I love summers in Boston. I hate winters in Boston, but I love John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Sure. Yep. Correct. Glenn Ordway: summers in Boston. well that should be pretty good because I've been to some Dino parties before. And John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Well that that was the old Dino. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, well it I I think the cops only showed up at a couple of them. Not not not all of them, but John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: That's true. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: but let's get to the Minahan thing because That was kind of the change of the entire complexity of the, if you want, of the of the show. So you've John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah we Glenn Ordway: got Mita Perel as the third guy for a while. Then they bring in Kevin Winter, who's a nice kid, nice guy, competent broadcaster, but an ESPN guy. So he John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Right. Glenn Ordway: didn't really fit what you guys were doing. Okay. He was straight laced. I'm gonna give you the sports, all right? And he lasted two weeks. Is that right? Two weeks, I think. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: He lasted a little bit less than than than Mike Salt did after he replaced you. Glenn Ordway: So then Menahan is doing some shows. I had done a couple of of shows with him. Menahan's doing some shows at the station. And obviously he's an extremely creative guy. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: a little bit wild, off the air, very shy at the time, at the time. but very unpredictable. And I think that when you're unpredictable. I think that works in radio. The audience never knows what they're gonna hear or a TV see next and they wanna be there for that that moment. So they bring they John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: But event, right. Glenn Ordway: bring in Minahan. When they brought in Minahan, you knew what he was. What was your reaction? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Well, he he was he was he's a is a different kind of cat. very smart, very good at what he does, but very disruptive, sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a bad way. Very complicated person. And he he seemed to be angry about a lot of things that shouldn't have made you angry. and and so there was a certain eggshell environment around him when when he arrived. And most people dealt with it. We all dealt with it and and you know, let him do his thing. And he's since gone on I I guess to bar stool and is doing okay. Is he still with bar stool? I don't know. I don't I don't Yep. Glenn Ordway: Yeah. I he's doing great. He's got his own show. He started a show based on he built this community of these fans, the minute John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: fans, and it's it's very it's very successful. And I think he's happy doing what he's doing right now. Yeah. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Yeah. And and he doesn't have, you know, old fuddy duddies like Jerry and me and you to hold him back. And and that Glenn Ordway: Good point. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: was part of it. It was it was kind of a generational thing. He was app appealing to people who were younger than I, more I don't know, what's the word I'm looking for? aggressive, more whatever. But it was it was kind of a different cut of cloth. And It eventually got, you know, sort of complicated. He wasn't fond of the way I did it. I wasn't fond of the way he did it. at a certain point when I went away to alcohol rehab, I was informed that that he, and somebody said Jerry, went into the boss and said, Listen, when he's done with this 30 days, you know, inpatient alcohol rehab thing, do we have to have him back? And that was sort of the beginning of the end of the relationship. And I and I did, you know, get back on the show. But it was torture. Two thousand sixteen was my last year there. And it was the longest year of my life. It was just, you know, I enjoyed the first nineteen years immensely. I mean with Choc and Ian and and and Jason and you know Bill Smith, you know, and then the production side, all of you guys, LB was in the studio. I mean it's a great kind of, you know, big family. And it all changed when this kind of disruptive Person came in and it just changed and Glenn Ordway: Yeah, but I think it a big part of that is they never managed Kirk the right way. Okay. Because you're right. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: no, no. Glenn Ordway: They certainly saw the potential. They John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: knew this was an immensely, you know, talented guy, but they let him just go. And John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: so he's trying to get attention for himself. So he's starting to blast you and Callahan. And you're right. It was great radio. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm. Glenn Ordway: Because it came out of nowhere, John. you're sitting there listening, going, my God, is this all staged or is this all real? You tell me, was it real or was it staged? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Well I I I think I think he was real and from from his standpoint and and he had crossover encounters with, you know, Christian Fourier and and Dossi and and you know somehow he managed not to get his face punched in by any of the football, you know, players who former football players who were then on the radio, but he sort of, you know, rubbed and irritated a lot of people the wrong way. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, I think they really mismanaged him. I think he could have worked there. Now he he's on to a different thing and language is different from what he does. He could never John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Perfect for him. Right. Glenn Ordway: go back to to radio unless he was willing to tone it all down. And I don't know how the audience would react if you have a toned down Kirk Minahan. But you I John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Great. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I could tell there was resentment on your part and you were kind of uncomfortable. comfortable when he would go off on one of those rants. And John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm. Glenn Ordway: toward the end of it, John, with that last year you're talking about, I can remember numerous times him going on the air and say, I don't want to be with you guys anymore. I want my John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: own show. And what was your reaction when he's sitting there basically saying, I don't want to be with you anymore? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: He was he was by that time I was used to it. He w he was he was unfiltered. You know, if it was front of mine, it came out of the front of the mouth. And and that's fine. And it's and it's obviously it's it's held him in good stead, and he's doing fine now, I guess. and and he finally found a place where he can do what he wants to do. They'll let him do what he wants to do. But he was sort of inserted into a an established old farts kind of, you know, morning drive time radio show. And he was the s the the the straw that store stirred the drink. And it was it was Glenn Ordway: Yeah, you know. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: it required an adjustment to say the least. But I will say this, it was the the last year was was not fun. And the first 19 were extremely fun. And at the end, and I had a year left on my contract. I was contracted through 2017. And I called Phil Zachary on a Thursday night from my house and I said Phil I said I I I can't do it anymore. I'm I'm I'm done. He said, Well you you just have you have a year left on your contract. And I said I I don't care. I said you don't have to pay me. He said do this. He said take two weeks off. Take a nice long vacation relax get away from it don't turn the radio on you know put your feet up or go on a beach or something and then we'll revisit this in two weeks. I said Phil I'll be glad to take your two weeks pay vacation but in two weeks I'm gonna have the very same answer for you. I don't want to do this And I walked away from one more year of WEE salary and and contract. Glenn Ordway: You mentioned going to alcohol rehab. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: And I remember because I got a call from Phil Zachary John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: and didn't tell me the reason that you were taking time off, which was smart on their part. They were keeping your private life private. I did later obviously find that out from talking to Kirk and Jerry, but he he he and I were negotiating at the time to bring me back. It was still a problem John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm. Glenn Ordway: because the CEO, David Field. We'll get to him. The say the John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: CEO, David Field, was still pissed off at me for some reason. and so I was having trouble, they were having trouble getting me back, and Zachary really wanted me back on the radio station. So he said, You gotta do this. Come on the air for for a couple weeks, just two weeks now. Okay. Dino's gonna got time off for two weeks. I need you to come in in it for for two weeks. Now, I don't know because it got back to me when you found out that I was the one coming in to fill in. Somebody told me that you were pissed. I don't know. Maybe that's true. Okay, that's fine. But John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Not at you. Not at you. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: the the reason I bring this up is you were finally addressing your demons. And John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Right. Glenn Ordway: I know that this was not something that just happened in 2015. But what brought you to the point where you finally said, this is it. I've hit the low spot here, and I've got to do something about it. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: It was opening day two thousand fourteen and we broadcast live from the Fenway Park Studios that morning from six to ten. So now I'm at the ballpark at ten o'clock, and for some reason opening day was delayed instead of a one hundred five start. It was a two hundred five start. So I had an extra hour. And I'm not sure what day of the week it was, not that it really matters, I don't think. But but I had some hours to kill. And I went up to the WEI booth and I had been trying to curtail my alcohol consumption for you know, a month or two and going much lighter and and trying to, you know, be a little more responsible. Never drank on a school night. Friday, Saturday nights, all no holds all holds no holds barred. But on this particular opening day, we finished the broadcast at the Fenway Park Studios. I went upstairs to the WER Luxury Box. It was a beautiful sunny day. The red, white, and blue bunting was out all over the you know Fenway Park and sun shining on my face. this is great. I haven't, you know. And and I turned around and the and the the concierge lady, the the person who sets up the room, brings the chafing dishes in and starts setting up for the, you know, the the the private booth, and brings out a big bottle of gray goose and sets it right down next to me. Hey, it's opening day. Glenn Ordway: Hello friend. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Hello, old friend. It's opening day and I've Glenn Ordway: What do you John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: had a drink for you know maybe a month or something like that. I'm gonna have one. And this is what I later found out in rehab. There are generally two kinds of alcoholics. There's the kind who thinks about it every single minute of every single day. 24-7, it's a battle. Like, you know, I wake up and I've said to some friends of mine and people that you know and and some sports stars and I've talked about it. And I said, Well what kind are you? I said, How often do you think about having a drink in this very prominent Person said, every minute of every day, I said, my God. I said, I'm not that way at all. I don't think about it. I don't want it. I can go out to dinner with friends. I can sit across from you. I can go to a game. I can be out to dinner and see, you know, the other couple drinking wine or drinking beer, whatever. I don't want it. But if I have one. It is truly it's a chemical explosion in my brain. And I can tell you, Glenn, how many times I've said to myself, Tonight, when I sit down to watch the red and I didn't I never went bar hopping. I I I rarely, one or two occasions, drove drunk. but I always it was at home. And I would sit and watch a Red Sox game in the chair, and I'd have one and whatever. And I can't tell you how many times I said to myself, Glenn, tonight's the night I'm gonna have one right after dinner, and then one maybe in the third inning of the game, and that'll be it. And the second the alcohol hits my brain after one, I'm on a roll. And and the expression is one is too many and ten is not enough. So I don't I don't crave it. I don't need it. I can sit and look at it. My only quest in life in r in terms of alcohol is to don't pick up the first one. And if I don't pick up the first one, it's easy. It's fine. But to to end up the story, so the gray goose is there and I have one and so now I'm off and running, you know, off and running. And drink water invites me down to sit behind home plate. Glenn Ordway: Yeah. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Well, yeah, like I need his assistance, right? And Drink says Drinks says to me, I I think he gets up after the fifth or sixth inning and he goes into the into the private club and has a couple of belts. He goes, let's go. I said, sure, let's go. And by the end of the night, by the end of the day, I was kind of a mess. And and I lost my car. I forgot which parking garage I had Glenn Ordway: What do you mean you lost your car? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: I I put it in a parking garage near Fenway Park. And there were two. And now I recall the story. I couldn't remember then. But when I first pulled in, like at six o'clock or five o'clock in the morning, the one garage was closed. It hadn't been opened yet. And I and I went in, I went to go there, and the guy came out and said, no, no, we're not open until six o'clock. So I pulled out, went to another garage nearby, parked in there, went and did the show, got bleep-faced up in the WEI box, went went with Dennis Drinkwater and had a couple more, you know, just because I really needed. Do more. And when the game was over, I went back to the original garage. Walked around for two hours looking for my car in the in the original garage that was closed. And finally, somehow I have no idea if an attendant said, Were you sure you aren't next door at the other garage? So yeah, maybe I am. And I found my car, and much to my dismay and much to my shame, I drove, but it had been a couple hours at that point because I'm walking around looking my car. Drove home and realized that it was kind of out of control. And so with a couple of conversations with Phil Zachary and Kevin Graham, we found a place and I went away and and learned a lot about myself. Now good the good news is that was my w when you go to rehab Glenn, They everybody sits around the road, gener generally about twenty people. Every week, like two or three would leave and two or three more would come in. But there was always twenty, about twenty people in there. Three of them were heroin addicts from Springfield, which was like a whole nother trip. And there were 17 drunks like me. And and one of the first No, no, but I wasn't in the heroin section. No. Glenn Ordway: So so you weren't you didn't sit in the heroine section, right, Peter? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: And and so one of the first things you do is you have to tell you have to tell them your your low point, you know, when it is you bottomed out. And so I told mine, I told the story that I just told you. And then we go around the room and it's like, well, let's see I I I crashed my car into a minivan and killed three people and the other one, you I I I lost my job, I lost my wife, I lost my house, You know, and so by comparison, losing my car and opening day at Fenway Park and being a mess and driving home drunk is bad. But I didn't kill anybody, you know, and I'm not looking for any credit for that. I'm just telling you, I was like, whoa. I did. Glenn Ordway: You you drove home you drove home though, right? After you found your car. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: After yeah, but it took me two hours, so I was like kind of sobering up at that point. Literally, it took me two hours. I probably was. It probably was. Glenn Ordway: So it was a good thing it was a good thing you couldn't find your car, I guess. So so did you drink after that? What w what's happened since then? Wha John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: It's i i I I just stay away from it. I just I just don't pick up. Glenn Ordway: You don't drink at all. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: No, no, I can't. I can't. Yeah. Cause I know and well I will say that I will admit to you that, you know, that was 2014. So there there was like one or two occasions between in the last twelve years where I was in a kind of safe situation and I said, let me see if it's still the way it was. Sure was. Yeah, I mean I didn't go anywhere and I didn't I didn't abuse it, but I could tell as soon as I took one, boom. This chemical explosion my brain says, more, more, more, more, more. Can't do it. Can't do it. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, w well good for you that you've been able to, you know, get rid of those those demons because John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: certainly seems like you were able to function, but really not function with it with you know, high efficiency, right? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Well, I was I was a professional alcoholic. I was pretty good at it, you know. I was I was not one of those mean guys. I was kind of a happy guy. I never got a Glenn Ordway: You yeah, I would I would say being at parties with you, you were the happy kind of sloppy guy. You were the guy John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: that would come up to you, Hey big old how are you? You would grab my shoulder. Yeah, you were one of those guys. Yeah. So I've got to ask John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I never got I was never a mean drunk. Glenn Ordway: So now that you've said all of this, I've I've gotta ask you about that infamous Ryan Rossillo voicemail that you left for for him. Because John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah, yeah. Glenn Ordway: You call him up, you leave this voicemail Rotillo, Rizzello, Rodillo or whatever. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Were John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: you sober when you did that? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: No, I was not. I'd had a couple. I wasn't I wasn't bleep faced, but I had a couple. And I won't get into the details because my my daughter hates when this subject comes up. She just loathes it. And and and so I'm not gonna get into the details. But what he said to her, they didn't know each other. Sh she went to a party. with some girlfriends and he was at this party. He was out of his mind drunk. Just just you know, he's a raging or was, I don't know if he still is, a raging alcoholic. And then he woke up in somebody's house, you know, w with with his pants off or something. Glenn Ordway: He he he he did hit a stranger's house John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yes. Glenn Ordway: that he thought was the house that he was renting at some vacation spot. He did, you're right, he did do that. That was bizarre. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Renting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's there's no question in my mind that that when he encountered my daughter, for some reason he didn't he didn't like me, or or at least on that night under the influence, he he didn't like me. And he walked up to my daughter and says, Hey, are you John Dennis's daughter? And she said, Yes, I am. And he said, Well, you know what I should do to you? And I will not go into the disgustingly graphic thing he said that he would do to her. He says, and then we'll call the I column and we'll tell that I Did this to you just to embarrass your old man. She came home very upset, crying the whole thing. So when you know, when somebody says this to your daughter and she comes home the next morning, she's crying and she's telling you about this. And and it's in the afternoon. I f I think I finally found them in the afternoon. And it was a Saturday afternoon. It was like a Friday night party. So I'm finally Saturday afternoon, of course. I've had a couple. And and I I don't know how I got the number, maybe Choc. I I should be mad at Choc for giving me Rosello's number. And I called him up and I said, I will rip your Frickin' heart out if you my God. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: you there's no question, you you clearly threatened him. If I I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a lawyer, John, but I would say John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: yeah. Glenn Ordway: I think a lawyer would tell you you definitely threatened him. So he was working at WBCN at the time. And I think part of what you're talking about might be true. He might have been jealous. You had a big, high profile media job. He was working at like 15, 10 or whatever. Talented guy, obviously, he's gone on to bigger and and better things. But he at that time he was he was struggling. So he was doing like a part-time job on BCN. He was doing like pregame for Patriots. He John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: came out and accused you of getting him fired because he got fired the very next week. Now, we all know, let's fess up here, John. You had a great relationship with Bob Kraft. I would say of all John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: I did. I do. Glenn Ordway: media members in Boston, nobody had a tighter relationship. with Robert Kraft or the Krafts, at that time we did call him Bob, than you did. So do you think it had something to do with him getting fired? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: I did. I got in fired. Glenn Ordway: Okay. All right. Which you festing hunt. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. I mean I didn't tell him to fire him, I just said, here's what you need to know. Here's what here's what happened last weekend. Because he was aware of the I think the voice message had come out. So he was aware, what's that all about, John? And I said, Well, here's the story. And I didn't say don't hire him to be the announcer. I didn't tell him to do anything. He just somehow didn't get the job. And it was a result of that, I think. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: So I can understand as a father of daughters, three of them, I can John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yes. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: understand you being extremely protective. And I guess it was the alcohol that did it, because if you were insane and sober at the time, you had to think, I'm not going to leave him a voicemail. I might call him up and get him live on the other end. But if I leave John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Exactly. Exactly. Glenn Ordway: a voicemail and social media is starting to explode at this time, John, you're sitting there going, that everybody's gonna hear this and I'm gonna sound like a total buffoon. Okay. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Never crossed my mind. Never crossed my mind. I was just when when she came to me crying, you know, ch saw red, called chuck. Yep. Glenn Ordway: Understandable. Understandable. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yep. Yep. Glenn Ordway: That's crazy. I want to talk about this crazy general manager that we had, because you and I both had encounters with him. His name is Jeff Brown. He might have John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah, well let me just say this. We we we had we well we've had a number of general managers, some great like Julie, and and others like Jeff Brown, who was just an evil, disruptive kind of guy. And then we had the gutless, spineless people like a J Jeff Baker no Baker? Tom Baker. yeah. Okay. Glenn Ordway: Tom Baker. Right. We'll get in we'll get in we'll get into Tom Baker. I wanna get into Jeff Brown because I had major pr Jeff Brown was the guy that fired me. Okay. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yes, two thousand thirteen. And and Jason Wolfe. Glenn Ordway: Yes, he did. And this guy Jeff Brown was just the the the nastiest worst general manager I had ever ever worked with. And he was a total fraud. And I think John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Evil. Yep. Glenn Ordway: he also had an alcoholic problem, like we just talked about with you, because there were many moments I had meetings with him where clearly you could smell it on his breath. And what John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Well he also got the shit smacked out of him at Fenway Park by I I I I believe a a client, 'cause he got he Glenn Ordway: Okay. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: got into a shouting match with a client and got smacked. Right? Glenn Ordway: Okay, so let's let's talk let's talk about that because I was not there. I am somewhere, I forget, I was on vacation or whatever. My phone starts ringing off the hook, and it's John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm. Glenn Ordway: all the guys from the radio station saying, You won't believe what the fuck is going on over here at Fenway Park right now. Jeff Brown and a client are fist fighting and they're on the ground and they're it turns out even John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: In in the W E E I private suite. Right. Glenn Ordway: better. It was the day of the Jimmy Fun radio thon. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: that's right, said Glenn Ordway: This client earlier in the day, and of course that was a day that we're sitting there raising millions and millions of dollars for cancer research to cure cancer and and help these children out. Jeff Brown apparently had a few too many. He might have met that same woman up there in the in the in the box that you John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Right goes. Glenn Ordway: mess, and he had too many. He suddenly starts arguing with one of our clients who John had just dropped off. A fifteen thousand dollar check to the Jimmy Fund. I don't who? I can't, I don't. I somebody told me John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Do you know who the client was? I don't either. I don't either. Okay. Glenn Ordway: at one time, and I can't remember. We'll find out. We will find out. He ends up getting into an argument with this guy, and it goes from voice argument to punching and fist being being thrown. And it was on Jimmy Fun Radio Talethon Day when the John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Re tacky. Glenn Ordway: Ryan had brought in a fifteen thousand dollar check to help the cause. And you're the general manager of the radio station and you're gonna have a fist fight. This is how crazy this guy was. He was crazy. So now he gets fired. Jeff Brown finally gets fired. He gets John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Two years he tore the place up. For two years he was there. Yep. Glenn Ordway: Destroy destroyed it. And I'll tell you how they finally found out that he was a problem because when I came back to the radio station, two things I had to do. I had to talk to the vice president of the company, corporate. Her name is Wheezy Kramer. You remember Wheezy. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Easy. Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: And then I had to talk to David Field, the CEO John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yep, the owner. Glenn Ordway: of the company, had to have a conversation with him as well. And I brought it out to him because Jeff Brown had been gone by now. And I said to him, I've got to ask you this question. How the hell did you ever hire this guy, Jeff Brown? Because the the CEO now is apologizing to me and saying, John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, he told us that we could bring in this kid from Seattle and we get higher ratings. I said, How did you ever hire this guy? And he said, Glenn, we thought this guy was the best market manager we had in the entire country. And then after we started hearing some complaints in Boston, We did and you probably participated in this. We did a private little survey where we gave people a piece of paper, had them fill out what they liked and what they disliked about what was going on at the station. Totally John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: You should make it clear the the employees of W E I survey. Yes. Right. Glenn Ordway: Right. Totally a secret. You didn't have to reveal your name, none of that stuff. It came back that ninety percent of those forms that came back said you need to get rid of Jeff Brown. I said exactly. I said, John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: I just wanna know who the other ten percent was that didn't think he should go. Glenn Ordway: How did you not figure this out a long time ago? But the I I'll never forget this. He gets fired and I hear from John Dennis. He texted me and he said to me, Great news, you're gonna love this, because I'm getting phone calls now. I'm on vacation. John texts me and he says, Great news, Jeff Brown just got fired, and I set up a memorial for him John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: I did. Glenn Ordway: at the urinal in the men's room. And John took the plaque, unscrewed it off his John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Ripped it right off his door. Glenn Ordway: off his door, off of his office. And he put it in the urine so people could piss on the piss on him. You did that. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: And then took a leak on it. And there it was, Jeff Brown. You know what's amazing Glenn Ordway: my god. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: about that story? He had been with the company, Intercom, I believe, for 13 years before they brought him in. Portland. How did how how did they not know Glenn Ordway: Yes, he was in Port he was in Portland, I believe. Yeah. Portland, Oregon. Yeah. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: that he was a a a poisonous kind of guy in 13 years? Or did he just like lose his mind when he got to Boston? Glenn Ordway: John, let me tell you something. You tell me if I'm wrong here. I think the biggest problem that company had, and the CEO David Field had, is that he wanted yes men around him. And John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm. Glenn Ordway: so if you tried to give constructive criticism, because John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: I think a lot of the local market managers f you know saw the problems that EEI had. But the problem was they went to corporate. And corporate said, no, no, no, we don't want to hear that. All we want is no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I just want to hear yes men. And so I think that those pipe type of people, the yes men, thrived in that corporate world, in that company. They they did. And I'll give you an I'll John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Well then that's on David Field now, isn't it? Glenn Ordway: I'll give you an example of it because you backed me up on this. David Field came to town and did. We were starting to peter out. EEI's numbers were starting to peter out. We were losing all the young people. So I'm I'm right. Exactly. And I John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Our signal was shit on eight fifty on AM. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: mention it's a narrow casting business and it's twenty-five to fifty-four. What happened to EEI is we were on AM radio, and obviously the the sports hub comes on at FM and and kicks our ass, but we're on AM. We can't generate a twenty-five year old, twenty-six year old, twenty-seven year old. So as as people age In the 25 to 54 year old bracket and they become 55, 56, 57. They're out of our demo. They're out of our ratings. But when we lose one of them, we're not picking up somebody on the low end at 25, 24, 26. We're not picking them up anymore. The other guys are picking them up because they're on FM and they're attracting a young audience. So we David Field comes to town because he's going to try to quiet because he knows. Boston is restless right now. We're freaking out. We know this is an issue with us right now. We're on AM and we're struggling. He does a town hall meeting. He does it over at the Channel Two building. And we, you and I, Callahan, we talked a little bit beforehand. I said, I'm gonna say something. And I felt I was the one that was the most secure. I had a good contract. And I felt, you know, I can I can speak up. These people can't do it. And they know. That the company relishes yes men. And so nobody's John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yes, ma'am. Right. Glenn Ordway: going to put themselves in jeopardy. They have families, they have mortgages and car payments. So I get up there and ask the question about when are we going to FM? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah, yeah. Glenn Ordway: And he says to me, he puts me down. And he basically says, Glint, AM is thriving. Matter of fact, it's getting a whole second life. And I'm sitting there going, Where? At the senior citizen? At the senior John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Borg. Glenn Ordway: center? Or is it in the in the in the community, the ethnic community, where they're they they have these small little pocket AM radio stations that are that are you know broadcasting in Spanish? What are we talking about? AM is is dead. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Did Glenn Ordway: He says to me, I and I bring it up to him, I finally throw it out. I said, Well, fans going to FM, and WIP in Philadelphia is going in the next two months to FM. He starts laughing at me. Almost kind of ridiculing me in front of the entire crowd. T all my fellow employees. Glenn, Glenn, Glenn, you know, to put me down. I live in Philadelphia. We operate the company out of Philadelphia. You don't think I don't know what's going on in Philadelphia? There is no way that WIP is going to go over to FM. It won't happen. You, thank God, jumped in and followed it up. And said, well, why can't we go to FM? You you kept the ball rolling. Probably John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: didn't help you either, John. Probably John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Well, the the the the antiquity of AM radio compared to FM, and beyond just the you know, the fifty four aging himself out of our demo and not picking up a twenty seven year old or twenty-five year old, you couldn't get eight fifty west of Framingham. And if you and if you pull into a stop sign or a stop light and it changed, the signal was it was terrible. It was awful. And and ninety eight five comes Glenn Ordway: If you drove one twenty eight. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: out with this strong, beautiful, clear signal you could get everywhere you wanted. And it was it was like it was like g going into a into a ring for a fight with one hand tied behind your back. And if not two hands tied behind why would you ever listen to the scratchy, insufficient breaking up and coming back into focus radio signal that eight fifty was providing when you can turn on ninety eight five and it is strong and it is clear and it's in stereo and it sounds great. I mean y I I Glenn Ordway: And the ninety eight and ninety-eight point five signal was far superior to ninety three point seven, but at least ninety-three point seven gave you at least a fighting chance. You lost John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Correct. Glenn Ordway: you lost the eight fifty when you were driving behind the blue hills on one twenty eight. So if John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: you were driving to Foxboro Stadium on a Sunday, you lost WEEI for about four or five miles. Yeah, well, the John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Right. Lost it. Gee. What would the problem with that be, huh? Yeah. Glenn Ordway: the the the rest of that story. With David Field as he's putting me down, telling me that IP, he's in Philadelphia, he knows better. I don't have John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: He knows. Glenn Ordway: good intel. Two months after we had that town meeting, WIP announced that they were going to FM radio with this John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Definitely. Yep. Glenn Ordway: sports radio signal. So obviously, my intel was pretty good, and the CEO of the company was totally lying to it. I want to get to John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Had no idea. Had no idea. Glenn Ordway: I wanna get to Tom Baker because Tom Baker was the general manager. During the whole Metgo incident. And for people that don't remember the MetGo incident, that was two thousand and three. You're doing headlines with Jerry Callahan, and there was a situation where a gorilla had escaped from the Franklin Park Zoo and they recaptured right? What's his name? Little Joe. And they recaptured. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Little Joe. Little Joe. He was he was missing for I think two or maybe three days. He was on the lamb, this gorilla from Franklin Park Zoo. Glenn Ordway: So you guys were probably following it for two or three days. So anyway, John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: No. Glenn Ordway: they recapture him at a bus stop. And Jerry Callahan says to you, they caught him at a bus stop, right? He was like waiting to catch a bus out of town. And you said, Yeah, yeah, he's a Metco gorilla. Callahan said, Heading out to Lexington, and you followed it up with exactly. Well, Metgo is a State program, a if you don't know, they bust intercity Boston students to better suburban schools or whatever. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Lexington and the rest. Glenn Ordway: So I I've got to ask you, when you when you made that statement, and I know I've been on the air, you say shit sometimes that you say to yourself, What did I just say? Because it's John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm. Glenn Ordway: so spontaneous. You're doing four hours a day, you're doing five days a week. But did you not, even after you said it? Connect the two, John, and said, shit, what did I just do? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: No, I did not because there was no racial intent there. There was no racial connection. And maybe that's on me, but you you left out one very important thing. That morning, on the front page of the Boston Herald was a picture of little Joe leaning on a bus stop sign that said Metko. I didn't Glenn Ordway: Right, it did. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: introduce the Metco thing. He was literally standing next to the bus stop sign that said Metco bus stop. And so I said, Yeah, Metco gorilla, you know, whatever. Not not making any connection that, you know, some people thought or or or aligned black people with gorillas didn't even occur to me. And I've said to a number of people since then, had this been a lion that escaped, I would have said it was a Metko lion. Or had it been a giraffe that escaped from the Franklin Park Zoo, I would have said, and he's leaning against the Metco sign. Hey, it's a Metco giraffe. Now Obviously, maybe I should have been more sensitive to it, but at that time it would it it didn't even resonate with me. And and and nobody said a word about it. Nobody called the station. Nobody was upset about it. Nothing. For four full days. There was no backlash at at all. And we had a pretty big audience at that point. So a lot of people heard me say it, and and nobody, at least was offended enough to call the station and complain to to Tom Baker, that your guy just said something that might have been potentially racist. No c calls whatsoever. Glenn Ordway: You you you you're you're right about days after because I did not hear it live, but I didn't hear anybody talking about it. I didn't even hear anybody talking about it at the station. I don't know what that says about the station, but I didn't John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: No. No. And and and if you heard the comment, if you heard the comment i in juxtaposition with the photo on the on the Boston Herald front page, it it made sense. Like he's a he's a Metco giraffe, he's a Metco lion, he's a Metco gorilla, whatever. And and there was no racial intent. That's why I I even when I said it and when I got off the air, I didn't say, shit, I shouldn't have said that. It never occurred to me. So there's like three or four days goes by and there's not even a peep from anybody from Metko from anywhere. columnist, nothing. There was no way whatsoever. And apparently some janitor, custodian that worked in the Metgo headquarters four days later came in and said to the head of ran into the head of Metgo, the woman I can't think of her name right now. And said, Hey, did you hear what John Dennis said on the air four days ago? And she said, No, no, I didn't hear about it. And he she told him. She immediately seizes on the opportunity to feather Metko's nest, calls Tom Baker, nice guy, gutless, spineless guy, says, I want a meeting. And she comes in and he throws himself on the sword. my God, forgive me, forgive me. Tell us. She said, I am so upset, I can't believe this happened. And what are you what are you gonna do? And and he said, I'll do whatever you want. And and she said, Give me a couple of days. And the meeting ended without any resolution whatsoever. But he said to her, You tell me what I have to do to make this right. And she went away. And three or four days later, a letter shows up with 10 demands. Number one is Dino's Tame the Tigers golf tournament to benefit the Jimmy Fund will now benefit Metco. Fuck the Jimmy Fund. Screw them. All that money, over $100,000 a year we raised for 10 years. All that money goes to Metco. Number two, we won a $150,000 Metco ombudsman. To sit at at WEI to make sure none of this stuff happens again. And there were eight more things. there was a scholarship that they demanded. There was one thing each one was more outrageous than the one before. She saw this as, you know, the golden goose. And because Tom Baker said to her, please, just tell me what I need to do to make this right, she took three or four days and made this shopping list of stuff that she wanted, everything I just mentioned, and five or six other things that were just. Equally outrageous, and came back and he said, Okay, okay, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And in the interim, before any of that got instituted, before they took the golf tournament proceeds away from the Jimmy Fund, and and before they installed some $150,000 a year ombudsman, Tom Baker got fired. Julie Kahn comes in, and Julie Kahn calls her on the phone and says, Forget it. You're getting nothing. And that was the end of it. She Julie had had guts and spunk, and she said, No, no, we're not doing all that. Forget it. And we didn't. We didn't do any of it. None of the 10 things happened. Glenn Ordway: I so you were suspended originally for two days, then they made John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: it two weeks. But I had heard, and you talk about Tom Baker, I heard that Tom Baker was willing to sacrifice you if John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm. Glenn Ordway: he could hold on to Jerry Callahan. And Callahan actually spoke up and said, Well, wait a minute. I'm as if you if if we're guilty of something here I'm as guilty as John is because I went along with the thing. I participated in the conversation. I didn't stop and say, Wait a minute, what are we what are we doing here? But Tom Baker was willing to sacrifice you and find another partner for Jerry Callahan. Is that true? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Correct. And Jerry stood up and said, if he goes, I go. And to his credit, I I'm forever indebted to him for that. Yeah. Yeah. So he g he could so we did. We went we were suspended, I don't know if it was a week or two, I'm not sure. But we also had to go to sensitivity training. Glenn Ordway: I've done that. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: You have? Of course you have. Sensitivity training. So I I was Glenn Ordway: I did it. I did it. After an incident. Yeah, after an incident we John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: This person doing the sensitivity training had had two little signs and one was red and one was green. And so they would read a statement and we'd have to go, Red, you don't want to go there, red, green, that's okay to say. It was the most elementary, ridiculously unhelpful waste of time. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, it was a it was a waste of eight hours because I like you, I I always looked at that stuff as let the person go back on the air and explain, like you just did, explain what they meant by it. Because John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I can listen to them and find out if there are, you know, racist tones in their in in what the way they're explaining it. But John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Right. Glenn Ordway: they never, they never Let you do that. It's always, you know, they bring in these so called consultants and crisis John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Consultants. Glenn Ordway: managers, and we're gonna we're gonna straighten all of the this away. I listen. Hey, before we go, I did hear a story, and you tell me if it is true, that you thought you were about to die and you recorded a video for John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Mm. Glenn Ordway: your kids and your grandchildren to play at your funeral. Is that true? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. Melodramatic Dino. It was it was Glenn Ordway: Wow. Was hold on Dito. Did you have music in the background? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Then no music. No music. But it was very well actually actually there was music. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Luther Glenn Ordway: Was it? Little Elton John? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Luther Van Ros's The Power of Love. And had a bunch of photos of of me w Glenn Ordway: very good. So why w what what John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: interacting with my grandkids and my wife and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. I said Glenn Ordway: Why? Why did you do this? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Well, what happened was Beginning of twenty twenty four, like January, I was having trouble eating more than two or three bites of food. I'll make this it's a very long story. I'll make it I'll do it in minute. And I'd have two or three bites, and I felt like, my god, if I have a fourth bite, I'm gonna throw up. So I went to the doctor and they said, let's do this test. And they said, Mmm. There appears to be the first test appears to be a mass on your pancreas. So, that's not very good. And and they said, But but we're not sure, we're not sure, because a lot of stuff, if you know the human anatomy, a lot of things come together at the pancreas. Your duodenum, your stomach, your bile duct, all these kinds of things. We're not sure, but it looks like there's a mass on your pancreas. great. we're gonna do another test. They did a second test, same results. We think it's a mass on your pancreas, but we're gonna do a third test. And then a fourth test. This took six weeks. And on Super Bowl Sunday, February of twenty twenty four, they determined that I had pancreatic cancer. And was going to have to have surgery, and and it's called a whhipple. And I don't know if you ever heard of a whhipple. It's not it's not the guy with the squeezy and the sharman in the in the grocery store. They literally gut you. They open you from stem to stern, they take out everything, they put it in a bag, you go to chemo, and then six months later you die. I mean, the only worse diagnosis than pancreatic cancer would be ALS, in my estimation. Yeah. It's it's the worst. It's the worst. Glenn Ordway: yeah. no, pancreas is the worst cancer you can get. They don't have a cure for it, right. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. And and so now they they they schedule the surgery and my god, and so I'm still feeling okay, other than I I couldn't eat eat anything, but all signs pointed to the fact that I had pancreatic cancer. So I contacted this guy and I put together this video of old photographs and some music, and and it ends with me, you know, saying goodbye and saying, See you on the other side and all this sort of stuff. And don't feel bad for me. I've I've lived a great life. you know, see you on the other side was was kind of the end of it. And so then I go in for the surgery and a whipple is almost eight hours on the table. I mean literally they take almost everything out of you know from your ribcage down to your belly button gone and I wake up I don't know how many hours later and the surgeon's standing there. He said You have dodged two major medical bullets. I said, What are you talking about? He said, number one, it wasn't on your pancreas, and number two, it's not cancer. It was a benign golf ball-sized tumor. We took it out. You're fine. You don't need chemo. You don't need a bag. You don't need anything. But I had this really nice big scar across my stomach. And so I took the I took the video, it's on a little hard drive, and I put it in a drawer for some other day, I guess. Glenn Ordway: You should have asked them to put all that shit back into your body again. You could use some of that stuff. no? Wow. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: They didn't take it they didn't take anything out. I'm well they took some they took a little bit of my stomach out and some other areas out. But it was dodging a major bullet. But I'll tell you this, Glenn, it ch and and this sounds trite and this sounds cliche. You know, when somebody says, when somebody dies, it really kind of ch it it does. It changes your perspective. I have not once since then gotten mad about a three putt double bogey. It doesn't bother me anymore, you know? It doesn't bother me anymore. So don't sweat Glenn Ordway: It's unbelievable. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: the small stuff. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Well, I guess we're gonna have to wait for a while to see that video that you had and to see if at the if John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Hopefully a long while. Glenn Ordway: if if at the end you say, Thank you, Jerry, thank you, Kirk, I appreciate all your help on the show. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: And big O, see you later. Glenn Ordway: Dino, this was a blast catching up with you. We we always got along through the years back in your T V days and your radio days. And so what one final thing. W what do you do now? You live in Florida, you live in Massachusetts, you're the you're snowbird like I am, but w what do you do? Do you do anything other than play golf? John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Yeah. I I I I read, I I I I have f flowers. I have flowers, a garden, you know, the flowers? Beautiful, beautiful flowers. Glenn Ordway: Excuse me? Flowers? Good. Nice. I do the same. I'm I'm a gardener now. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: I know, I know. We get weird in our old age. I s I swim every day in Florida, not Glenn Ordway: Yeah, it's called retirement. Me too. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: so much up here. read and just sleep in. is the best thing I do. I sleep past 345 in the morning and I wake up at the crack of six AM feeling refreshed and and ready to go. Believe me, Glenn, there's no better person than I for doing nothing. I'm really good at it. I'm really good at it. Glenn Ordway: It works on a resume. What do you do? Nothing. All those years. You know, Dino, John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Nothing. Nothing. There you go. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: this is great. Till the next time, my friend. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: Great to see you, Glenn. Glenn Ordway: We'll talk to you. John dino dennis backup video the big o's podcast 0011: My pleasure. Good to talk to you.