Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 743: Foundations - Winter Scouting Whitetails & The Lost Cause Factor

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Ep. 743: Foundations - Winter Scouting Whitetails & The Lost Cause Factor · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Foundations podcast, your guide
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: to the fundamentals of better deer hunting, presented by first Light,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: First Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Tony Peterson.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome to the Wire to Hunt Foundation's podcast,
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: which is brought to you by first Light. I'm your host,
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Tony Peterson, and this episode is all about how to
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: winter scout in order to find spots that will actually
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: allow you to hunt them. On last week's show, I
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: tried to stress how we pretty much all have blind
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: spots with our understanding of the land that we whitetail hunt.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I hope I made it clear because it is important.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: There's always something to learn out there. I actually truly
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: believe that. I also believe that there are some spots
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: that are super conducive to hunting and others that are
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: just lost causes. There are more of those out there
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: than you probably think. So listen up because I'm going
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: to get into it. But first, have you bought yourself
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: the new Meat Eater Trivia board game. If not, you
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: might want to consider it. Since we have about fourteen
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: months a winter left that will be full of plenty
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: of boredom. Now, if you're worried you won't like it
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: because it's Spencer Newhart's baby, and he's well, almost weirder
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: than Mark Kenyon. Don't worry. Other than the vague memory
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: that the game is Spencer's brainchild, he won't be involved
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: in your family game night. Go check it out at
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: the meat eater dot com and remember that a portion
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: of every sale goes directly to conservation. I have a
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: lot of issues with colleges and universities. Not only do
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: I think it's a crime against humanity that they've raised
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: to it prices so much in recent years, but I
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: also think it's totally bs that you're required to take
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: a couple of years of gen d's before getting into
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: your major. Now, I know no one forces us to go,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: but higher education is the director route to a career
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: for an awful lot of eighteen year olds and offering
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: them ridiculous loans and then requiring they take bowling or
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: interpretive dance or in my case, badminton to even begin
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: to earn a degree. Is as close to outright theft
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: as you can get without actually reaching into their wallets
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: and taking their cash. I know there is a counterpoint
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: to buying the ticket and taking the ride, and that's valid.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: It's just a system that bothers me personally, probably because
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: of the classes I had to take. Some of those
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: classes were like accounting in various levels of math. Now,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: I had a therapist tell me one time how dangerous
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: self diagnosis was, But he also wore a lot of
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: pink sweater vests, so maybe his judgment was a little lot.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Either way, I have all of the signs of dyscalculia,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: which is a learning disorder involving numbers. The long and
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: short of it is, you have trouble even as an
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: adult with math that's above about a fourth grade level.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: If you have that, you might suffer from this condition.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: And if you have it, you might have trouble. I
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: don't know. Memorizing a phone number, for example, you might
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: as well hit yourself in a face with a brick
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: if somebody rattles off a bunch of quick numbers might
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: be more pleasant. And as an added bonus, if you
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: write that number down by hand, the odds are pretty
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: good you'll swap a few digits, which makes most phone
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: numbers a lot less valuable as someone who truly cannot
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: grasp the numbers game. College level math and accounting courses
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: were pure torture for me. The concepts that my peers
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: so easily grasped were so far beyond me it was
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: truly embarrassing. It has been clear to me for a
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: long long time that I was never going to work
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: in a field that required a lot of math, and
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: spending stupid money to take courses on topics that I'll never, ever, ever,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: ever work in was just kind of insulting. It's just like,
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: there's no way for my brain to figure out algebra.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: No matter how slow people talk to me about it
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: or how much they break it down. It doesn't matter
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: if they grab some visual aids like colored blocks. It's
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: nearly inaccessible to me. Now, I'm not proud of this,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: and I don't recommend this for anyone listening. But I
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: cheated my ass off in those classes and I barely
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: barely made it through. I don't want any of you
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: find folks to write yourself off as a lost cause
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: in any category, at least not without giving it a
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: hell of a go. But the truth is, at some
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: point we have to recognize some of the things that
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: are just beyond our reach. This might occur in the
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: dating world for you single folks. It might be a
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: promotion at your job when your immediate supervisor would rather
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: electro shock is delicates than talk to you. Or it
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: might be this sweet sweet spot you find when you're
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: scouting this year that's full of big buck sign but
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: just isn't huntable for some reason. How is that did
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: I stick that landing when I brought that whole rant home?
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: I hope so, because this is something we don't hear
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: about much, but spots that are just unhuntable are all
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: over out there and they will factor into your life. Now,
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: before I dive into how to figure out if you're
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: dealing with one of those areas, let me say a
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: few things. The reason that this rarely gets talked about
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: is because we often get fed information from people who
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: can just make enough spots huntable that they don't have
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: to worry about this. This is one of the many
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: reasons why baiting has such a high compliance rate where
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: it's legal, and honestly too high of a compliance rate
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: many places where it's not legal. If you can make
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: the deer walk somewhere you've smoothed out most of the wrinkles.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: If you can't, you have to understand what you're working with. Now.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Another reason you rarely hear about this topic is because,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: even though it happens a lot to most of us,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: these spots don't play into our success stories for obvious reasons.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: An area that is just teeming with buck sign but
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: has the worst swirling winds and horrible access is probably
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: not going to make it into a bunch of stories
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: about big public land bucks getting killed. And speaking of
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: public land bucks, let me lay out a scenario for
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: you to really frame this up. When you travel to
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: new states and new pieces of ground where anyone can hunt,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: you almost have to scout and go mobile if you
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: want a chance on these hunts. I find spots that
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: I want to sit all the time, but they often
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: don't allow me to hunt them in a way that
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: won't be a total disaster. And when I say this
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: happens all the time, I mean it. You know, from
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: trees not being conducive to a saddle or a stand,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: to nowhere remotely decent to set up on the ground
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: lost cause spots are all over out there. You know
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: the same goes for prevailing wind and access. Even if
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: you could hunt a spot because it has the right tree,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: the conditions might make it a real bad idea. I'd
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: say finding these types of spots is more common than
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: finding good spots that actually allow for a decent hunt.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: In fact, my ratio is probably about three to one.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: How's that for math? This is something most of us
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: don't think about when we winter scout. I know that
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: I have to remind myself of it all the time.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: It's so easy to walk up to that hillside bench
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: you've always ignored, see a bunch of big rubs on it,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: maybe a great big bed, and think, well, well, my
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: work's done. That's all I need to do. But you
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: have to scout now while living in the future. What
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: will that bench look like, you know, in September when
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: there's good cover on it. How many suitable trees are
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: within shooting range of it that will allow you to
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: not get spotted or winded? How good is the access?
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: When you're out there walking a side hill that terminates
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: in a valley and you start to investigate where the
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: hardwoods spill into a swamp, pay attention to not only
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: why the spot has deer sign, but whether that matters
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: to you as a hunter. The best, most rubbed up
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: areas out there might be nearly unhuntable, and that means
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: that you've only found a small piece of the puzzle
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: and aren't as close to solving the whole thing as
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: you think. The thing about the advice I gave last
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: week on really committing yourself to learning the land is
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: that you should absolutely do that. So you cannot only
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: figure out where deer like to walk, but where the
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: spots are that they are actually killable. Learning about a
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: spot where a big buck made a bunch of rubs
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: or visited scrapes, that's valuable, but it doesn't get you
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: where you need to be if you can't hunt it properly.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Connecting the various types of features or learning which oak
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: trees should be dropping in early October is great, but
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: it pays to remember that you probably just can't wait
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: for the acorns to start falling in walk in there,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: find a tree, set up, and shoot a buck. The
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: reason I think it's important to walk through the woods
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: and figure out the terrain features and the soft edges
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: and whatever else is because you can filter all that
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: stuff through reality. Some places are just unhuntable at all times,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: or more likely during certain conditions. Now, with that caveat,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: I'll say this, I don't want to give you too
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: much hope on a certain conditions thing. Some spots might
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: be hauntable on say, I don't know an east wind,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: which you'll certainly get a couple of times each season
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: and that's about it. Or maybe you can only access
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: a certain banging spot when it's raining, because otherwise you'll
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: make far too much noise. All right, what are the
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: odds that your free time and the right east wind
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: or the right rain shower will align, along with a
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: bunch of other conditions. Recognizing the lost cause is important,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: But it's also important to recognize something as a lost
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: cause without actually knowing if it's true. This is where
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: things get weird. But hear me out. I winter scout
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: a lot, and I find a lot of spots that
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: I think I can hunt. Some I'm nice twenty nine
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: percent sure will work out. Others I have a lot
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: less faith in. But I rarely write off a good
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: spot completely until I've actually hunted. The spots that start
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: as iffy but work out tend to be the ones
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: I have the most off season time invested in. If
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: that bench that is covered in sine just won't work,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: but I know there's a rub line leading down the
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: hill to the creek bottom, I don't need that bench
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: as much anymore. I might be able to sniff out
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: an ambush site two hundred yards away and still play
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: off that January discovery, but not exactly off the best
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: spot I found. I hear from hunters often who tell
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: me they can't hunt certain valleys or certain spots because
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: they'll get busted. This most likely ties into swirling winds, or,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: more importantly, the belief that the wind is always going
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: to swirl. There. As someone who grew up hunting valleys
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: in bluff country and didn't really understand swirling winds at
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: the time, I'll say this, that is not a universal truth.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: We need to quit buying into that because it's entirely
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: dependent on a ton of factors that can change and
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: will change. Will the winds swirl if they are five
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: miles per hour the same way they will at thirty?
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: What about if the wind is blowing straight down the
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: valley versus across it. Be careful with this loss caused
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: stuff while you're winter scouting, because what we think we
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: know and what is actually true are often vastly different.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: It's also important to draw upon the opposite end of
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: the spectrum. Have you ever had a spot that was
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: just like you had an invisible shield around you. Maybe
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: it's a bass wood clump or some other clump of
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: trees where the access was perfect and you just never
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: got busted. Those locations tend to become our favorites for
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: obvious reasons, but ask yourself what makes them special, And
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: when you start answering that question, ask yourself where you
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: might find that somewhere else. Instead of resigning yourself to
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: probably getting busted by carrying a saddle and some sticks
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: into a risky spot that is covered inside, is there
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: a much safer setup nearby that maybe won't offer as
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: high as an odds of an encounter, but will offer
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: a much better chance of stringing together multiple, less risky hunts.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: This is where you need to think things through while
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: winter scouting. Maybe you find a spot that you really like,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: but you know it's going to be pretty rough wind wise,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: or all of the trees are super small and you're
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: likely to get busted, but you really really want to
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: hunt look around. Is there a way to set up
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: on the ground, Maybe season of ground blind from July
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: through to the hunting season, or prep a natural ground blind.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Getting on the ground changes the wind game. I mean,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: it's implifies it. It also allows you to hide better
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: if you know what you're doing. I don't know how
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: many bucks I have killed because a lost cause spot
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: turned more huntable just because I figured out some way
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: to hunt it from the ground. But it happens a lot.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: I know you know this stuff, but it's easy to
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: forget when you're winter scouting. We tend to assume we
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: will be super disciplined and figure out as much as
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: we can so that we have a huge advantage when
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: the season hits. But there's a lot of time between
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: now and the rut, My friends, there's a lot of
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: time to forget the little details, or worse, convince ourselves
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: that we're pretty much covered all of our bases way
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: back in January. If only it's so easy to sabotage
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: your future self by not winter scouting the way you
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: need to in order to set yourself up for success.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: This is why I'm such an advocate for getting out
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: there now and dropping some waypoints and laying down some
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: accents roads, and just generally gauging the likelihood that I'll
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: be able to truly hunt a spot the way I want.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: So let me tie a bow on this by bringing
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: in one more scenario. Think about your fall. Any fall
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: you've had as a hunter, you have probably had this
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: happen dozens of times. You think, all right, it's October
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: twenty fifth, I'm getting out of work early, and I
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: just know a big one is going to get moving
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: a little bit before sunset. I know he's probably betted
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: up on that good ridge somewhere and will come down
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: to the field at last light, and you have a
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: stand hung or a tree prepped to catch him on
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: the most likely trail. You know it'll happen, But you
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: check the forecast and it's going to be sixty five
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: degrees instead of thirty five, and the wind is going
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: to be southwest and not straight out of the north.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: It's really not good for that setup. But you want
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: to hunt there so bad, so you do one of
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: three things. You talk yourself into hunting it and you
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: risk it, or you hunt somewhere else where you have
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: way less confidence, or you just don't hunt I think
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: all three of those are pretty bad options. What if
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: you had winter scouted better and found the little seep
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: on the hillside that pulls into a gallon of spring
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: water and is only a couple hundred yards from where
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: he's probably betted. Or what if you had stumbled across
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: a really cool rub line dropping off of that betting ridge,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: but in a direction sort of away from that obvious
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: food source. Why was that there? What if you had
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: scoured the area and not only found a bang and
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: tree stand site on your favorite trail, you know, the
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: one you wanted to go into to hunt but can't
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: really because of the conditions, but you also found a
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: spot seventy five yards away where you can tuck into
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: a dead fall and hunt from the ground. You know,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: the kind of spot that is perfect for a south
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: ish wind but terrible for a north Instead of forcing
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: yourself to make a bad decision based on what you
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: believe a big one is going to do, you can
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: scout enough to give yourself some backups, and then some
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: backups to your backups. You've worked out the land and
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: the connection between various types of habitat to not only
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: discover the best buck sign, but the spots that will
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: allow you to hunt them when the conditions are a
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: certain way. I know this sounds easy when you're listening
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: to some math challenge podcast host, but it's not. The
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: toughest part is doing enough of the work to make
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: this happen. And what's worse is there probably isn't enough
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: work in the world to cover you in every situation.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Even if you winter scout every day from January to April,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: and you are sure you have everything dialed, you probably
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: won't even be close. You will be far more prepared
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: than your competition, will have a hell of a lot
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: better understanding on how to surprise a big one with
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: your presence when he thinks he's safe. But you can't
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: master this stuff. The best you can do is try
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: to be disciplined enough to get closer and closer as
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: the years go by. So get out there and learn
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: the land. When you find something that makes you feel
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: a little tingly inside, like Mark does when he sees
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: a neat pollinator fluttering across the native prairie grass, figure
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: it out. And I mean, and I'll say this for
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: my Canadian friends too, figure it out. Look for signs
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: of a lost cause or a rock solid option or
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: something in between that you're gonna have to work with.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Work those spots in multiple directions and find what they
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: might be connected to in the grand scheme of buck travel.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Build your knowledge base now so you can have some
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: fun hunting with confidence later, and come back next week
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: because I'm gonna do a fun episode on all of
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: the shit that I truly believe about deer hunting and
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: why that might matter to you or well not. That's it.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: I'm Tony Peterson. This has been the Wired to Hunt
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Foundation's podcast. As always, thank you so much for listening
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: and for all your support. I honestly truly appreciate it,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: as does everyone else at the Old Meat Eater. And
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: if you want some more white tail content, or maybe
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: you want to listen to Clay's podcast or check out
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: those Element Boys hunting some hogs down in Texas, go
• 19:31
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• 19:35
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