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Joe - Addiction & Overdose · The soulnotskin Podcast with Jen SluMac

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody says, why don't I do more?
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you just can't no human being is stronger than the desire to get that medicine that feeling good even even for a brief time.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about the real experience, the wonderful stuff, the everything brought the experience to real stories, real people, real insights, becoming who we are.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: And let's dive into today's episode.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, uh, my name is Joe, and uh I want to talk a little bit about uh my experiences uh with addiction and kind of the impact that that's had on my life uh really throughout my life.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um recently I I lost a friend um who struggled with uh alcoholism and addiction for quite some time, uh really close friend, and that kind of uh kind of shook me to my core and had me really doing some reflecting and some thinking about you know where things were and my life and just kind of evaluating everything.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: And uh towards the end, you know, we we got real close and he kind of reached out and and kind of essentially told me he needed me there.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um having a background of being around addicts and and alcoholism for essentially my whole life, um I kind of knew that I could only be there so much, you know, and that if he wasn't ready to change and to take those steps, it wasn't gonna happen.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, nevertheless, that that doesn't um lessen the impact it has on you.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you always want to do more, you think you should have done more and whatnot.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um so long story short, uh, you know, he was a good friend of mine I knew from the gym years ago, and and we kind of lost contact for a while.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um he had gone through some hard times, and you know, we're life was life and we were kind of doing our own things, and past couple years we kind of reconnected um in a strong way, you know, and and we're talking all the time and actively through through the addiction and through the struggles.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we would hang out, you know, once a month and and kind of just connect and talk and talk about life.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: And and this was throughout the the ups and downs of of addiction and alcoholism as we know it.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's just never it's never a steady, steady line, right?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's always ups and downs.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: And um it was tough, right?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because you you you love and you care about someone who's actively struggling, and in their heart and in their brain, they know what needs to happen and what they want to happen.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and we're talking about you know, good people with with good hearts and huge hearts, and and it's a trait I notice in most addicts and alcoholics, you know, the hearts are always there and they're always these kind people to everyone but themselves, essentially.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: But um it's really a tuga-war type of game where you have these conversations and everything sounds great, and everything sounds like we're on the right track and we're going in the right direction, and then until it's not, you know, and then and then it's just a disappearing act.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we used to have this kind of running joke where it'd say, hey, don't houdini me this time, you know, don't disappear on me.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I know I've seen this too many times where we're we're on a good track, we're talking every day, and all of a sudden I don't hear from you for a few days, and then a week, and then two weeks, and it's like you know, the techs are still flying and and one way, you know, they're not coming back, and and I know exactly where that's going.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're we're caught in that in that addiction and that trap again, and and so it's hard.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's very hard.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, my my take on it was always I I'll show up for you right now.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you need me to come there now and and be with you so you're safe.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: I I know from experience that I can't take away the addiction, I can't make you take away the addiction, but I can be there to make sure you're safe physically, you know, medically, and get your help if you need it.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, so that that part is tough, knowing that you're powerless from the outside looking in.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my take was always I'm gonna make sure you know that that I love you and I believe in you.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: And personally, I I feel like with what I've seen with addicts, that's what's missing, right?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Is the self-esteem and the love and the you know that that's something we didn't have growing up, and and something that um you just need to hear.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, somebody believes me, someone loves me, and someone knows I can make it out of this um healthy and alive.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, uh with my friend recently, it didn't end that way.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it didn't have that quote happy ending.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um I mean uh leading up to it, I it was within a month before his passing, um I had just come back from a long hike, um, was away for most of the weekend.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: This was a Monday, it was happening to be a holiday.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so I you know, having uh one-year-old at the time, uh baby, and my wife was with him all weekend.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's tough times, it's not easy to take care of the baby.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, babe, you know, Eric needs me today.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're gonna go uh hang out, and I'm gonna spend a day with him.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's just gonna be a quick workout and coffee, and I'll be back.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so that day, uh, blessed that day, it just turned out to be an amazing day.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: That I mean, we ended up spending probably I was probably gone four or four and a half hours.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I felt horrible for my wife, and I'm like, oh, she's not gonna be happy when I get home, and I, you know, and I've been away and yada yada.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: But it was just uh the moment was just right, and we just we got to hang out, we reminisced about old times and talked about a lot of things and and you know the direction and addiction and and what that what that does and how we get into these mind states and and all the things, you know, and and how we know what is right and wrong and what we should and shouldn't be doing and what is good for us and not good for us.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: But we're powerless, you know, when it comes to that, and it's just it just grabs a hold of us.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we talked about just the addictive, all or nothing personality when it comes to many things, whether it's fitness or uh dating and women and anything at any given point in our lives, and uh, and just how that it just grabs us and takes a hold of us, and and we're essentially powerless.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean we had a magical day and it was great, and and yeah, I did get a little bit of flack when I got home, but just something about it felt like it was right and it was worth it, and and it needed to happen.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um shortly after that, you know, within a couple days, the the tech stopped coming back, and um and that you know put a sinking feeling in my stomach because I I knew something was wrong.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: I knew that we were we were probably uh probably on a bad on a bad run.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so again, my approach was just I want to tell you I love you, I want to tell you I believe in you, I want to tell you I'm here if you need me to to come where you're at and and kind of help you through this time.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: And and then I got uh I got the news from a mutual friend um you know, maybe three weeks after that day we spent together, uh, that he had passed, and this is after not not hearing anything for probably two weeks.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And the immediate feeling was if I'm being completely honest, is kind of whoa is me, right?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: And why didn't I do enough?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of I statements, which knowing, you know, knowing what I know and and experiences I've had, it's it's never an I thing.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you do what you can and you show love and but you cannot take this away from someone.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Someone who's got an active addiction, um they're gonna do what it takes to achieve that fix or to achieve that quote goal.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, after that, it was it was just a feeling of just cherishing the moments, you know, and cherishing the moments and the impact that he had on my life and and that friendship and that that love that was there.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of takes me back, you know, like I mean I've seen addiction uh throughout my life, um from essentially from birth, you know, and from uncles and and the disappointment that brings, and I and I've watched and witnessed exactly what that has done to my mom, you know, with her brothers and and my father and whatnot.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it just it's really just devastating.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard when a person who loves an addict and who cares about an addict um or an alcoholic for that matter doesn't have the escape, right?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you have to deal with those raw emotions and you don't act if you have that escape, which is the the substance knowing that it's it's really impacted my life.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've been associated with and known and hung out with and close, close friends with uh many addicts and alcoholics.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I always wondered, you know, you always kind of wonder why is that?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Is that my calling to help people?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Or well, after you see enough of these situations, you wonder no.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I mean, we're not any different.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're we're the same people, I have the same, I'm wired the same way.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, is it dumb luck?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Is it is it just a small bit of circumstances that kept me away from fully going off of the deep end into that addiction?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Most likely, you know, most likely.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: A couple you know, a couple stories I have with with friends, and like I said, I mean some of my closest friends are now recovered or recovering addicts.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that that's my circle, you know, and that and I said by the grace of God I've somehow stayed away from going fully immersed into that that life or that circle.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'd get a call at three in the morning because there's demons blocking the microwave, and somebody can't get their food out of the microwave that I knew they weren't gonna eat because they're in the middle of addiction and drugs and everything else.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: But so this this story, and and we still talk about it to this day, a really good friend of mine, and I showed up at three in the morning, you know, fresh out of bed, and I'm like, okay, I'll be there.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was still at the office, probably not getting any work done.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I showed up and I helped him rescue his food from the demons that were blocking the microwave.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: And um we sat there and we we broke pipes and we flushed drugs and we got rid of everything that he had.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: At the time I thought, great, cool, this starts him on a road to recovery.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, looking back, and he's admitted it to me and talked to me about it, and again, now he's recovered for several years.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, praise God for that.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: But he uh all I did was just go and get more.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I just had to hop in the car and just go get more drugs and get a new pipe.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's that's what that amounted to, but I appreciate it, you know, and we like it it was a good moment.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I mean, it's those type of things.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, it's one of my better friends to this day.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: One of my best friends struggled with addiction for years and years and alcoholism.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, he tells me to this day that you're probably my best friend, and it's only because of the love you've always showed me, the acceptance and the understanding of it.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that means a lot, you know.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's easy to look down and oh, he's just an addict, he's just a junkie, he's just a dope fiend, or whatever word they use.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: But it's so much deeper than that, you know, and it's it's so much uh, in my experience at least, every every addict or alcohol alcoholic that I've seen, and even I'll include myself in that, as far as borderline or or having had issues in the past with alcohol and and other things and partying too much, it's something that starts like really early on, where everyone every one of these people has experienced some kind of lack of self-esteem or self-worth or um experienced abuse at a young age.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it's always something that you know that not believing in yourself or not thinking you're good enough or not just not, you know, just thinking that everyone's better, everyone deserves more, you don't deserve it.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: And those are always seem to be the type of things that I've seen lead to addiction or these type of things um just taking over.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like um like like uh you know, trauma is something that I think we don't fully understand either.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um trauma isn't something that happens, you know, necessarily it's something, it's the way that a a person receives the experience that makes the impact.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean that can be certainly seeing somebody shot in front of you, certainly being off at war and you know, having these risk experiences, whether uh on the battlefield or in a community that is, you know, um got a high crime rate, those things for sure, but it's also traumatic for a little person to need security and not feel that they're getting it, to need attention and soothing and not feel like they're getting it.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that feeds into your your conversation, your your point about the self-esteem, right?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: If if if life hurts more than I'm able to deal with it, then I need to find relief to survive.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely, you know, and the mechanism in the brain and the body will take some people into crossing a visible line to addiction uh when their medicine becomes their monster.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, absolutely, you know, yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, with uh the guy I was just talking about um my close friend, and you know, he we had many conversations, and you know, and he would talk to me um most of the time, not during, is uh about with alcoholism is the latest, you know, is what he had gone through.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: He's recovering now, and like I said, praise God.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: But um, and he hated it.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you you just hate the alcohol, and and when he's coming out of it and and on a good run, sober, I hate it.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even like it.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's miserable, I can't stand it.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: But it becomes just that medicine and that only escape that you have from the reality and the trauma.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: And the trauma thing, it's uh I look at trauma and everybody has a uh or a ceiling, either way you want to put it.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I feel like I've seen quite a bit of things and I've I've you know been shot at and I've seen crazy things happen.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: So my ceiling gets to a certain point.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: My wife has had a different experience, and in her, she hasn't seen a lot of the things I've seen, or or been around kind of the addicts, or had you know, uncles showing up at the house with police chasing them and jumping out, you know, and just just craziness.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Trauma is all about the feel, the feel.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: So my ceiling and her ceiling feel the same, even if my ceiling's way up here and her ceiling's down here, it's what you feel and and how it affects you, and obviously how you cope with that and and your defense mechanisms uh towards that.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about um your friend who overdosed.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um what did he leave anybody behind?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh did he have uh a partner or kids or his parents still alive or siblings?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like what kind of an impact is his absence having?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean he had uh siblings and he was extremely close with his mom.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um he lived with his mom still.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it's it's tremendous impact.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: He had nieces and nephews that he was extremely close to.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I won't get into too many details, but they're uh the addiction and the circumstances affected them in ways too, and they saw things that similar to you know what I experienced growing up, so I I kind of understand where they're coming from with it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Is you know, you love someone and you see these things, and especially as a child, you know, you don't understand that.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's not good, just stop.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just don't do it, right?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's touch a hot stove, it's it's hot, it burnt me.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I just don't do it.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I've seen the tremendous impact on the community, on on friends, and as someone who's loved by many, many, many people just for the the heart that he had and the and the just the giving spirit and just the all-around good person.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: But uh you see the devastation on the um on his mom's face and her heart and siblings and like I said, the nieces and nephews, and you just see the the aftermath of it, and it's like you know, everybody says, Why didn't I do more?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Why wasn't I there more?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: Why didn't I show up more?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: Why couldn't I do something different?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: The reality of it is, I mean, you just can't.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: You can't, like I said, there's no like there's no force, well, except for I'll say God, no human being is stronger than the force in the desire of an addict to get that fix, that medicine, that being enough or just feeling good, even for a brief amount of time.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Even knowing that it's gonna come with some level, probably a high level, of uh negative feelings or uh come down or pain, it it just at that moment becomes worth it to feel that the positivity just for a brief time.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: The aftermath of it, I mean it left a huge void in my heart, I know that.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, someone I was close to and and growing close to, and and this is a you know, uh kind of a macho, um, prideful workout, you know, buff guy that in his own way, you know, in the last six months to a year, I don't remember how long, it's probably a year before passing, really told me, yeah, I need you, need you around, I need you in my life right now.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Every couple weeks we'd get together or have coffee or once a month at at the longest and talk, you know, almost daily.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's it's tough, right?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because you you feel like you wanted to have more of an impact.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I think you do have an impact on this person's life.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's just and it this is really kind of the first uh one around my age that that we've lost this addiction.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've seen, like I said, I mean, uh the story I told about the guy at work.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, I was I've had this fear of losing many others close to me around my age.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's kind of different.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: I've lost uncles and whatnot, and that's they're a little bit older, and and you know, it's it's a different dynamic.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: But when it's your age, your group, your your peers, uh people that you've really been close to and actively and recently, um it just hits different, you know.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's you wish you could have done more, you wish you could have taken that away, you wish a lot of things.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's brought on some reflection for me, and it's like we always think you know, it can't happen to me.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the reality of it is I I think there's a lot of us, I won't say all because everybody's wired differently, but there's a lot of us, myself included, that we're not far off from going down those same roads, or we are and maybe not actively, but at some point in our life we haven't been far off, you know.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and like you see a homeless person on the street and you say, hey, you know, we're we're only a paycheck, missed paycheck or two away from you know being there ourselves.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's not it's not that far off.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um the same thing, in my experience, in my opinion, is true with addiction, right?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's we're only a slight set of circumstances, um a few negative experiences, just we're not far off, you know.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so when we say it can't happen to me, it can absolutely happen to you.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, trauma, where one traumatic event can send many of us into that that same lifestyle.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: And experiencing this recent event uh along with the others, you know, and and seeing you know, relapse after relapse with some of my close friends and wondering, you know, why why can't we just you know put this to bed for good?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: I've learned that I need to really focus on cherish every moment, really stay conscious about you know health and and really taking care of ourselves and nurturing our bodies.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot one thing that I'll I'll say is with addicts in my experience is when they are actively clean, they're really good at something.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they all have this skill set and they're able to lock in like in a way that most people aren't, you know, and they and they really excel at whatever it is that they lock into.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, for me, it's like okay, I do have those same traits and the same personality, and that's probably why I'm surrounded by so many addicts and recovering addicts.