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Oscars 2026 – Original & Adapted Screenplay + Best Director · CinemaHounds - A Lorehounds Podcast

• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello, Lord Hound's listeners.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the penultimate pre-oscars episode of The Cinema Hound's Does The 2026 Academy Awards.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Today, we're getting to some of the biggest categories, and most important to me, writing and directing.
• 0:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: My guest for today is writer and photographer Catherine October Matthews.
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Some of you may recognize her from last year's coverage of the live action shorts categories or our coverage of the craft films on the Walshift Dust feed.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we had a great conversation about these ten nominated films in the three categories, original screenplay, adapted screenplay and best director.
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I do, of course, as usual, if you have not yet recommends starting with my in-day vids, opening episode to the series where we reacted to the nominees and previewed the ten best pictures and talked about some of the
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: biggest racism, surprises, and other anomalies of the season, but of course I have also since then released dedicated episodes to the shorts categories, production design costumes, makeup, and hair.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: International film documentary features, animated features, the music, with this year's Nevermind The Oscar's Music crossover episode and The Tech Awards.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: not to mention the bonus episodes for the indie spirits and baff does, and now we are up to writing and directing.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stick around until the end for what's up next just one and how you can join this year's live Oscar watch chat.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: In this episode, we will be talking movie premises and productions, but as usual, we will avoid film spoilers except We did decide at the end to add a post-credits spoiler discussion.
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: You'll see we're dancing around trying not to spoil these films and we just decided let's have
• 2:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: another conversation at the very end after the outro and credits and everything where we do spoil almost all the films not blue moon or Frankenstein because honestly it's inherently difficult to spoil them but we do talk about the endings of all the other films in that there will be ample warning before we get to that but for anyone who's interested stick around until the very very end.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Alright let's jump into it!
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And welcome back, Katherine.
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: So last year, we talked live-action shorts.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you've been my guest on Walshiff Dust where we did a spooktober special on the craft.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: So glad to have you back to the network for the third time.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
• 3:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: My pleasure.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: You are a writer and photographer for anyone who didn't get to listen to this other episodes.
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Please tell us more about your work.
• 3:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: What do you up to?
• 3:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I will be linking the things you're talking about and your website in the show notes for anyone who wants to learn more.
• 3:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 3:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And most recently I had a book that came out
• 3:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: words and photos.
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Black and white photography and trade publications, so it's available pretty widely.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And as well, I developed a original tool called the Emotion mixer to help creators bring more emotional depth and nuance and to as a formal tool of guidance to help people develop their creations.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so yeah, we did, we used your emotion mixer to talk about the live action shorts category last year.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'll put a direct link to that episode as well because yeah, that was a lot of fun.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll definitely, we're not using it directly this year, but obviously we'll be digging into some of those points when we look at the writing in these films.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love the city of emotion.
• 4:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and what is film, if not, or writing at least?
• 4:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, so you're bringing you a fresh perspective.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think most of my guests are death racers, and you are not a death racer.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: So for anyone who doesn't know, an Oscar's death racer is someone who watches every single Oscar-nominated film before the ceremony.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: and we're crazy people so it's nice to hear from people have a little more distance from these particular films that we've been obsessing over for a year now.
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: What is your relationship with movies overall?
• 4:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are you a film fan?
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you ever watch the Oscars?
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am absolutely a film buff, and I've always been super interested in movies, especially independent cinema.
• 5:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's say, or I would say that my watching has gone down over the last couple of years while since having a kid, that's definitely taken a toll on the ability to watch movies especially in the theaters.
• 5:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: but always been a film buff.
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am not such a fan or I don't give much clean cred to the Oscars.
• 5:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just in general, not on on on principle or something, but just it hasn't really reflected my tastes.
• 5:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: general.
• 5:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, I understand that.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think so that for death racers, we there's been a lot of talk, um, as for getting closer to the ceremony in the death racing community, like why do we do this to ourselves?
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, and it is because, you know, and it's not that we think,
• 5:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: that the Oscars are the end all be all of it because I will talk openly today about politics where as we talk about these films and who's likely to win in things like that, that's definitely a play here, but it is, you know, there's so many thousands of films that release each year.
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: This provides a curation that says, hey,
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: pay attention to these filmmakers pay attention to these films and so that's that's why a lot of us do the death racing thing it's because sure there's going to be movies that we don't really like and I'm happy to say in these categories we're pretty good I'm mostly happy with these films but this is a smashing machine where it's filmed here.
• 6:44
  [UNKNOWN]: Sorry
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: That was makeup.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it forces us to watch things that we wouldn't otherwise watch.
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I gave you your own mini-death race of these three categories, which amounts to 10 films total.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Eight of them are best picture nominations.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: And one of them will talk about is considered to have just missed that best picture nominations.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, consider the creme de la creme for the most part because I've to say, well, the two, I consider the weakest, best, best picture nominations are the two that are not here, um, because I think you and I both probably care more about the writing than almost anything else in a film.
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe sure, yeah.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: So what was your overall thought on these 10 films that you watched today, which again, I'll just give an overview is sinners, Marty Supreme, sentimental value, it was just an accident, blue moon, one battle after another, HamNet, Frankenstein, we already talked about
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I forget which one I missed, but anyway, we'll talk about them.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: What did you think about them overall?
• 8:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Overall, I was really taken a back or a stun by how much violence and gore was in these movies.
• 8:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess I'm used to the idea of the big movies being an action or something like that, but
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was really stunning, like so many of them were just so gory, so violent, and just, like, yeah, it almost started to feel like,
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: a different category just because they were also similar in that regard.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: There were a few that stood out and I have to be honest with those are the ones I probably liked better than the rest.
• 8:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's fair.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I noticed this is something we were talking about particularly in the documentary and international categories, but I noticed overall, you know, we are obviously at a tough moment in global politics and existence on this planet and I'm noticing that the
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: reflects that.
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I can't say that's inappropriate, but I understand the desire for like, oh, what about escapism, a bit, you know, what about just talking about something else sometimes.
• 9:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why totally moons in here.
• 9:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, or even just family dramas, like sentimental value.
• 9:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was kind of a welcome reprieve that it was just, let's say,
• 9:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: ordinary family dynamics, even though it was an exactly ordinary.
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 9:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 9:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: But just exactly.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like how how how many like what does it say about society that so many people think that entertainment has to involve a gun?
• 9:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, like I said, it is definitely this is unusual for this year.
• 9:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is or it's more extreme this year for certain.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm I really think that that reflects just currently what people are most concerned with right now and what people find maybe not, you know, it's not this is not necessarily about what is the most entertaining films for the Oscars.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's about what
• 10:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I can understand why there's a lot of grappling with everything that's going on in them, then, in that regard.
• 10:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's, yeah, let's get to the grappling.
• 10:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: So let's start with, we're going to talk about original screenplay, then adopted screenplay, and then director.
• 10:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: So let's start with original screenplay.
• 10:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is both screenplay categories were added to the ceremony in 1940, so about 11 years after it started.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this category, original screenplay must not be based on any previously published material.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: So all sequels, remakes, adaptations, all fall under adapted.
• 11:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: It seems to be variable for, you know, movies that are based on real people, like they kind of just decide every year and sometimes they decide differently than, for example, the writer's guild of America.
• 11:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's kind of arbitrary sometimes, although I think in this case it's pretty clear for this year, which is original, which is adapted.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And last year's winner just to revisit was Sean Baker for Anora, which I was happy with last year.
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that was definitely that that was more of an interpersonal thing, not like a geopolitical disaster.
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Unfortunately this year there are no women in this category.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is kind of a theme that there's an underrepresentation of women in these categories.
• 11:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Hamlet is the only one with any female nominees representing in the other two categories.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: So,
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, acknowledging it moving on.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's begin with my favorite Ryan Couglar nominated for writing sinners, which is obviously he's directed it as well.
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've talked about this film a lot.
• 12:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I did a deep dive, which will be linked in the show notes.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: It got 16 nominations this year, setting a new record.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we already talked about it in best picture preview, production design costumes to make up and hair.
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: song and scores in photography vfx editing and sound director and original screenplay we're talking about it today and then we will discuss it again in actor supporting actor supporting actress and casting and the plot is it's basically it's about a pair of twins and their cousin who set up a juked joint in 1930s Mississippi not realizing the local KKK is the least of their
• 12:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was not a cheap film, 90-200 million, but it made $369 million in the box office.
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: So take that, Naseires.
• 12:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, it's considered one of the two biggest films of the year.
• 13:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Great reviews on Rotten Tomatoes and Letterboxed and everywhere else.
• 13:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can watch it for yourself on HBO Max.
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's two hours and 18 minutes long.
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And before we get into, well, I mean, I guess it's hard to separate them.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: But what did you think about the movie overall?
• 13:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was really good.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: It started out to be clear all of these movies.
• 13:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not a single one did I do any reconnaissance in terms of like watching the trailers, reading up on them.
• 13:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just I watched all of them absolutely blind.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nice.
• 13:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so this one, you know, really took me by surprise.
• 13:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: It, you know, of course the movie.
• 13:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: whispering it and I we're not doing spoilers so we can talk about this a real montage I think that's okay yeah okay but it it really it took me by surprise is what I want to say and that it started out in a very different place than where it goes and so it but it it still felt coherent and it felt thematic and
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: uh... world to live in rich characters i i i i i was a fan did you know it was a vampire movie girl going in or did you just find that out no that's what i say i also you know halfway to the vampire movie and i'm like what what what what did i sign up for right i didn't realize this i shouldn't have started watching a so late in the night i
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and you watched through to the, for me, the thing that really makes this movie is that first credit scene.
• 14:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Where buddy guys at the bar.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
• 14:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Short people.
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Talks to people.
• 14:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Talks to people.
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm always afraid people are going to turn it off before that.
• 14:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're like, oh, the credits have started.
• 14:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, no, keep watching.
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit like an epilogue or something, but.
• 15:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but essentially contextualizes the entire film for me, yeah.
• 15:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this is Kougler's third and fourth and fifth Oscar nominations, because he's also nominated for directors.
• 15:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll talk about today in Best Picture, Overall.
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And he was previously nominated for Judas in the Black Messiah in 2020, and the best original song, left me up from Black Panther, Wakanda Forever in 2022.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And if he wins this one, he would be only the second black winner in this category after Jordan Peel won for get out.
• 15:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this, yeah, this category's not only bad at not honoring women, but good news is that he is likely to win.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: He has won five of the precursors, including critics, choice in the buff does.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: He won actually the writer's guild awards for original screenplay yesterday, right before we're recording.
• 16:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: You guys will hear this later in the week.
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: It'll be a few days ago.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, he is likely to win.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are you a fan of any of his past movies?
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: like a creed or fruitbal station.
• 16:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't seen them.
• 16:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
• 16:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this is your place or they are the same gestalt or, I mean, you can, to be honest, I have not watched the creed movies.
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know that's a black blank spot I need to catch up on, but his other films are
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you can see that this one is so he started as an indie director, and then he started doing things with Marvel, the Black Panther series, and you can see that this film is kind of a marriage of the two sides that he experienced there, and he's pulled together all of his best team from...
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: from both and from, you know, he went to college with the composer, Ludwig Gorenson, which that is a collaboration made in heaven, the music.
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, this is it's sort of a realization of all of these things he's done.
• 17:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Creed is also, of course, a big franchise thing, but, you know, everyone.
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't seen it as I said, but everyone seems to agree that he's brought something fresh to the whole rocky of it all.
• 17:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so let's move on to Marty Supreme, which the writers are Ronald Bronstein and Josh Saffty, who is the director, Saffty.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is an age 24 film, nominated nine times this year, so we also talked about it in Best Picture Preview production, as I'm in costume, cinematography and editing.
• 17:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll talk about it today in director, in original screenplay, and then in the final episode in Best Actor and Casting.
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is basically about the world championship of ping pong related stress.
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: This one cost about 60 to 70 million to make and made about 162.3 million at the box office.
• 18:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Again, high reviews, this is considered one of the overall favorites of the year.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can watch it yourself.
• 18:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's to rent now two and a half hours long, so on the long side.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd nominations for writer, editor, Ronald Bronstein, and the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th nominations for
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, are you have you seen like uncut gems?
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: For example, that's the one everyone knows about with it.
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so that was a safety brother's film That got a lot of attention.
• 18:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't love it But I see why people I myself constantly compare Marty Supreme with it because it's like very stressful But what did you think I'm pretty supreme?
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was super tiresome, I really struggled with this one.
• 18:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I did not enjoy it.
• 19:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't enjoy the character.
• 19:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't really along with him for the ride.
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: On his journey, it was just kind of a real arrogant prick, going around being a real arrogant, self-obsessed prick.
• 19:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I, I, I,
• 19:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the intrigues, it's the, you know, the arcane obscurity of ping pong.
• 19:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I, I think it's the stress.
• 19:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think people, I mean, I like to this one a lot better than uncut gems.
• 19:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: I did, I actually, I would say, I like this one overall, and, you know, I won't spoil the ending, but I'll just say it has for me a more satisfying ending in terms of the character actually.
• 19:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, getting a satisfying moments, but then also seeming to learn something, perhaps.
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I hate it that about unconsciousness.
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was just stress, stress, and then it's over.
• 19:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, what am I taking away from this?
• 19:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this one, yeah, I enjoyed the ping-pong world.
• 20:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I enjoyed like all of the filmmaking of it, all of like the capers.
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I dragged my family to see it in the theater and I think I'm the only one who enjoyed it.
• 20:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: and my mom and sister appreciated it and my dad hated it and I understand I understand every reaction to this film.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is a big, you know, cinema, but it's not necessarily the most fun watch overall.
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, we can't talk about this film's chances in this and the directing category without talking about the saffety brothers controversy that's going on right now where it's this is actually something from their film good times a few years ago where there was an underage actress whose part ended up being cut but she was kind of pressured to do unscreen nudity and was exposed to someone questionable and this mayor may not have played a role in the
• 21:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: And but that is for whatever reason or just because of all the attention the film's getting that is coming up right now.
• 21:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I haven't been hearing honestly as much about it as I might have expected, but at the same time I think it will make people less likely to vote for this film.
• 21:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can imagine that twist for the twist on things.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the other brother, by the way, made the film I called out as my worst of the year.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't think the the interesting thing though here is, you know, I talked about In previous episodes, especially in production design, the tech awards and the final episode is coming next acting, which I have I have already recorded.
• 22:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: I talked about the fact that Ronald Bronstein, who's the other name here.
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: He seems to be perhaps the driving force behind this film, like he, um,
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: He seems to be, you know, what the line between uncut gems and Marty Supreme and the things people like about them, maybe it's coming a lot from him, it's interesting that his wife Mary Bronstein is the writer director of another one of the most stressful films of the year if I had liked I would kick you.
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I do wonder if people will, you know, say like, okay,
• 22:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: But they won't because they're going to vote for Rangukla.
• 22:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: What, I mean, what would you say?
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: is rewarding about the writing in this movie.
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, like I said about that, I feel like there's an actual arc this time that he goes through all of this, and he because he is, he's an unlikable person, but I was actually personally rooting for him.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was rooting for him to grow up and become less unlikable, and he does
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: His series of chaotic, increasingly wild experiences do seem to give him something, you know, a sort of closure and a realization.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I was strapped in for the ride along the way as well.
• 23:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I loved Odessa Azayan, the, you know, his, what was her name Rachel?
• 23:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: His baby mama?
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: His lady friend.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she was great.
• 23:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I suppose I mean, I did find myself also rooting for him at the end, but I was fully aware that I actually wasn't rooting for him so much as I was unsettled by the idea that he was going to be humiliated like profoundly humiliated as he human being and I was more rooting like please don't let that happen, please don't let that happen and so what I was rooting for was not him.
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that made it even feeling that, made me aware that I was aware that that's what I was doing and not caring about him, but just caring about human decency or like the not wanting someone to bear that much even though he was just an awful human being.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, I understand and I can't say that like, yeah, that's it's kind of how I felt.
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I guess I just was more comfortable with that and maybe that's because I have watched more of these stressful, you know, safety, whatever, bronze team films with these unlikable characters.
• 24:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's not my favorite sub genre of film, but this one may be my favorite of that sub genre.
• 25:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah.
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, okay.
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's move on to one that you've already said you like to more.
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, we have Yokeem Trier and Eskilvok, who are nominated for writing sentimental value, which was directed by Trier.
• 25:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a Norwegian film, but it was actually a collaboration with France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden and the UK.
• 25:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's distributed by neon, it's got nine nominations, so we also talked about it in best picture preview in our national editing today we're talking directing an original screenplay and we'll talk about it again for the lead actress supporting actor and to supporting actress nominees.
• 25:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: The plot is Sister's Nora and Agnes reunite with her estranged father, the charismatic Gustav, a once-for-own director who offers stage actress Nora a role in what he hopes will be his comeback film.
• 25:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: When Nora turns it down, she soon discovers he has given her part to an eager young Hollywood star.
• 26:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, yeah, there's a link in the show notes to when I talked about this during the Liden International Film Festival episode for subscribers, it is a decent box office successful, an international film, 9, 7.8 million budget, 22 million from the box office, again, superlative reviews from everyone and you can rent it now to see it yourself.
• 26:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, would you think of this film?
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you already said you liked it, but you want to elaborate on what you liked about it?
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I found that, that, oh, gosh, I'm so nice and articulate about this.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And because I'm also trying to be mindful of spoilers and not, and not really ruining plot.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think what they did super well is talk about
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of the movies actually deal with heavy emotions.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: But this movie dealt with heavy emotions and a driving force is toward healing and reconciliation in a way that the others were not.
• 27:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that felt very rich and meaning for me.
• 27:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And by the time the movie ended, I despite it being a little bit heavy, I felt really good, really warm.
• 27:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was very well acted, very well cast, very well written.
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it had a good story and a good story,
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, good dialogue.
• 27:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really like the interaction between the two sisters and they're back and forth.
• 27:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was a, yeah, it was a real good film.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: What did you, what do you think about the other categories that it was nominated in?
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are you, are you like, were there any favorite performances?
• 28:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: It got a lot of acting nominations, especially.
• 28:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, yeah.
• 28:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean,
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think, does she count as the lead actress, the the Agnes who's the actor?
• 28:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 28:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the actor.
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then it's the actor.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's a stage actress play.
• 28:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: The same actress.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think she was really great.
• 28:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think Dakota Fanning was really, well, cast for what she was asking.
• 28:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they're the same.
• 28:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they're the same.
• 28:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: So embarrassing.
• 28:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, she was the literal sisters, but really well cast for what she was asked to do.
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe didn't give her so much breadth to work with, but she really fulfilled her role well.
• 28:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the father too, I think, captured his role.
• 29:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, um, yeah.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I, I also quite like this film.
• 29:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think that there's a general warmth toward it in general.
• 29:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the first nomination by the way for Valkt.
• 29:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, it is the second and third for trio who will also talk about in the directing category.
• 29:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, his,
• 29:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: previous film that most people are most familiar with is worst person in the world and that's sort of how he and Renata Reinsva, the lead actress is sort of his news.
• 29:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is how they started to really get international attention through that film.
• 29:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I
• 29:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that this film has both gotten more attention than expected this season than less attention than expected this season.
• 29:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he talks about it in other episodes, it is both under and over nominated in certain categories.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would have expected cinematography, for example, you know.
• 30:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 30:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you notice like with the precursors, it's it's only one one of the writing awards so far for the European Film Awards.
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: It did.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was the biggest winner of the European Film Awards, which is not surprising, but I do wonder if it's going to underperform on Oscar night.
• 30:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because it's also was completely left out of all of the American Guild Awards basically.
• 30:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean it's tricky and I do feel like there were moments when, for example, when she is reading aloud the screenplay of her father and I do feel like there would be
• 30:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: nuance that I would pick up if she was speaking my native language, but because she was speaking a different language, I'm aware that there's those nuances of when people emphasize certain words or let certain words slip away that you miss a bit and you know that you may not get the full
• 31:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: that they're saying, it's different when you're reading subtitles.
• 31:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Mm.
• 31:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, definitely.
• 31:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's fair.
• 31:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's fair.
• 31:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Although I think the writing shines through, still in film, since it's a multi-media medium.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mm.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 31:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 31:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I like the framing of seeing the family history through the house.
• 31:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 31:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 31:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: The house as a character was great.
• 31:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 31:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you have any final thoughts on the writing of sentiment of value?
• 31:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: We will get to talk about it one more time.
• 31:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
• 31:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
• 31:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
• 31:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a good spot then to take a quick break.
• 31:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And when we come back, we'll talk about the last two nominees in this category.
• 31:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are the only two films we'll talk about today that are not best picture nominees.
• 32:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we'll be right back and talk about why.
• 32:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, now let's dive into let's let's dive into the one that was merely a best picture nominee.
• 32:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we have Jafar Panahi who wrote in collaboration with Medi Madmudian, Shedmar,
• 32:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: which Penahi directed, it is an Iranian film, but done in collaboration with France and Luxembourg distributed by Neon because Penahi cannot get his films distributed in Iran.
• 32:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's always, he doesn't secretly.
• 32:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I guess maybe we should start with talking about that whole situation where he, he's been arrested for making his films.
• 33:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: He, in 2022, he was arrested after he was sentenced in 2010.
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: to a six-year prison sentence and a 20-year ban on working.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, he leaves the country to promote his films, but then he does go back to serve his sentence to make a point, you know, and so obviously, Iran was under a lot of,
• 33:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Pressure up from this and he went on a high profile hunger strike when he was 65 years old and despite the fact that he's banned from working he just keeps making films anyway and then releasing them in Europe through European countries so actually was.
• 33:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: friends who submitted this film to the Oscars this year.
• 33:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: And he went to Kahn for this film to premiere, and it actually won the Palm Door, the biggest prize at Kahn.
• 34:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So people are like, oh, this is one of the biggest films of the year, because the Palm Door winner almost always becomes a best picture nominee at the Oscars.
• 34:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And when he left to go to Kahn, a new arrest warrant was issued for him,
• 34:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so he's just been traveling promoting the film since abroad, and but he says he returned he plans to return to Iran after the Oscars to serve the new jail sentence, but now of course.
• 34:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: the current events in Iran really put a lot of question marks on everything.
• 34:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: So with all of this, and with the fact that people just genuinely loved the film, it's got, you know, really high reviews.
• 34:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's you can see yourself on Hulu.
• 34:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's an hour and 44 minutes long.
• 34:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's about an unassuming mechanic who's reminded of his time in an Iranian prison when he encounters a man he suspects to be his sadistic jailhouse captor.
• 34:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: It might should say it ends up getting together a group of Azerbaijani former political prisoners.
• 35:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, things go from there, with some moral questions.
• 35:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it did pretty well at the box office for an indie film.
• 35:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: It made 10 million.
• 35:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know the budget.
• 35:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it was surprising that it only got two nominations for international.
• 35:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we talked about in that episode and this original screenplay nomination because it was expected to be a best picture nominee and other things.
• 35:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you know about any of this background
• 35:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, so what did you think of the film without just going in fresh without this context?
• 35:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really didn't like it.
• 35:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh no, okay.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I found it to be torture porn.
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's one thing to call it a thriller and that we don't really know what's happening, but
• 36:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: case in the back of a van the whole movie.
• 36:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to unsee it.
• 36:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, given the context that you're talking about, I can see why it's an important film or something, but I would not recommend this movie to a single person.
• 36:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I like to considerably more than you, um, yeah, I, so by the way, I listed a bunch of names and I should say the people that it's in collaboration with it was written, uh, two of them are former political prisoners who share their stories and then Sivar is, um, another Iranian filmmaker who helped write it, um,
• 36:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I know it's there's a lot of anger going into this, but I think and this is a tough one to talk about the spoilers with the spoiler policy, but for me, the ending is what stuck with me the most and it's not
• 37:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: The ending isn't comfortable for my personal moral philosophy on things like revenge and the questions that it raises when you just get this final sound that you're like, ah shit.
• 37:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's been it stuck in my head ever since I don't know I saw this a few months ago I guess.
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I do.
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: I do like the film.
• 37:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I do think it's a good film.
• 37:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's necessarily a fun film.
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not really supposed to be.
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's not entertainment.
• 37:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or rather, if you think this is entertainment, I please speak to someone.
• 37:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but I see where all the love comes from.
• 37:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: It did get four wins.
• 37:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was the most awarded film at the Gotham Awards.
• 37:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, obviously at one con, it's missed four times though as well.
• 38:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it doesn't seem likely to win here.
• 38:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's been sort of, and probably there were more people who felt the way you did, which is why it did not get the nominations that it was expected to with the Oscars this year.
• 38:18
  [UNKNOWN]: Hmm.
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, all right.
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: So let's move on then to the final film in this category is another Gensular One.
• 38:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Robert Caplow was nominated for Writing Blue Moon, which was directed by Richard Linklater, who is Loki, a director I really like.
• 38:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: This was a Sony classic pictures production.
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: It received two nominations for Screenplay and for Ethan Hawke, we're best actor.
• 38:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's the plot is forgotten, but not gone.
• 38:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: On the evening of March 31, 1943, legendary lyricist Lorenz Hart confronts his shattered self-confidence in Sardy's bar as his former collaborator Richard Rogers celebrates the opening
• 39:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a small film.
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't know the budget.
• 39:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: It made 3 million at the box office, which is not terrible.
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's got some more mixed reviews, like so critics, 90% of critics I'm rotten to made is gave it a positive review, but only 75% of audiences, and it's got a 3.6 and letter box, which is decent, but not as strong as most of the other films we're watching today.
• 39:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Talking about today.
• 39:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: What did you think about this one?
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was another one that was pretty hard to watch because it was so dialogue heavy.
• 39:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're just listening to this guy talk for such a long time.
• 39:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I do think that I would not rate the writing of the story.
• 39:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of, I appreciate what they're trying to do in the sense of they're trying to give a portrait of a man over the course of like one life in his night.
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I get a sense of history and how it plays out, but, but it was just so much talking, talking, talking, and, you know, the whole idea is that, you know, he's a bit of an arrogant raccoon tour.
• 40:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: He, he does talk too much and other characters are looking between themselves like, oh, God, we have to listen to this.
• 40:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then they keep giving time to that.
• 40:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: They keep giving say to that.
• 40:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I,
• 40:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure that I, I would give, that I would award a screenplay for, for, right?
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: putting us through that to tell the story.
• 40:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I'll say this is Robert Kapplow's first screen play in the sauce.
• 40:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: So first Oscar nomination, he's best known for he had a coming of age novel called Me and Orson Welles, which was turned into a film which was also directed by Link later, but written the screen play was written by different people.
• 41:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Link later liked him enough.
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's like,
• 41:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: this time.
• 41:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, so I I went in interested because, you know, I'm a musical fan and, you know, I knew I knew there was heart Rogers and heart before before it came Rogers and Hammerstein.
• 41:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I never really knew why I was just like, yeah, heart diet or something.
• 41:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I, you know, so I found it interesting to
• 41:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, get a deeper look at like, oh, hearts is kind of a difficult person and Rogers is just done with him.
• 41:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I, it was a film when I watched it.
• 41:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: At first, I, I didn't think I liked it.
• 41:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then by the end of it, I was like, you know, I think I kind of, I kind of liked that.
• 41:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just kind of like mildly warm feelings toward it.
• 41:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Not, I'm not as passionate about it for sure.
• 41:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I do wonder like, it was a very surprising to see it show up in this category.
• 41:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people were predicting Ethan Hawke for best actor.
• 42:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I think that's also, it's just a general love of Ethan Hawke
• 42:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Here's a chance to award him.
• 42:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like somehow this slipped into this category off of the back of that, but I would have much rather seen something like Twinless here, it's just another film that got zero Oscar nominations, the injustice, or no other choice, well, that was an adapted, but anyway.
• 42:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there are other films I would far rather have seen in this category, to be honest, and I was a little scratching my head when nominations came out about this one.
• 42:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, it's one, it's one once for a screenplay award at the Boston Society of Film Critics, but otherwise it hasn't gotten much attention in that regard, and I understand why, but it's not an unpleasant, well, I mean, I guess, as you say, it's unpleasant in the sense that
• 42:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Totally, no, no violence, except for a man versus himself, you know?
• 43:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll say, I guess, so we have something called a bokeh-less scale where it's about how emotionally and physically violent is it?
• 43:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would say, this is low on the bokeh-less scale.
• 43:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's that.
• 43:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: It just David would hate it because it's cringe.
• 43:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's very cringe.
• 43:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's very like, oh, dude, don't say, oh, no.
• 43:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: um yeah but if you want to see for yourself it's on Netflix an hour and 40 minutes long so okay that those are the five the five nominees again in this category then are sinners a Marty Supreme sentimental value it was just an accident in blue moon how would you rank these five personally in terms of the writing?
• 43:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: um i mean my two favorites
• 43:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: are clearly centers in sentimental value, two very different movies, but so I think I would struggle to choose between them, specifically on the writing.
• 44:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a bit, and then the other three, I mean, I guess Blue Moon gets picked after that because it was merely tiresome, Marty's supreme,
• 44:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it was original or something, but
• 44:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it was just an accident.
• 44:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, dead, dead last.
• 44:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I, all right.
• 44:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
• 44:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: In good conscience, recommend this to anyone.
• 44:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, all right.
• 44:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: So everyone knows that I love sinners.
• 44:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, that's number one.
• 44:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a mental value definitely number two.
• 44:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and then I think I am going to go.
• 44:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was just an accident.
• 44:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, no, no.
• 44:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Marty Supreme, then it was just an accident and then blue mode.
• 44:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: for me.
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, dead last for Blue Moon.
• 44:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's like I said it was pleasant, but I just didn't get as much out of it as the others, you know.
• 44:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was like, I had an okay time with it.
• 45:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, okay.
• 45:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had an okay time.
• 45:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
• 45:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Which is not what you wanted to be saying about an Oscar nominee.
• 45:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I do think, and I hope I will be very upset if Ryan Couglard doesn't win for sinners.
• 45:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, okay.
• 45:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: So let's turn to adapted screenplay where there does seem to be a clear front runner.
• 45:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Unless, happy about this regard.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Last year's winner of this category was Peter Straun, would you have my saying that right, Straun?
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Four conclaves?
• 45:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this year, the adapted screenplays, four of them are based on novels or one novella in there, and one of them is a remake of a film.
• 45:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I've watched the film, the Bagoonia is a remake of, and I know a good amount about hamnids, but I have not read
• 45:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: that novel.
• 45:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I intend to, I think I have no enough.
• 45:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I will link in the show notes a podcast that interviews the author and then also interviews a Shakespeare experts just about the history behind it.
• 46:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I find that really fascinating, so I know from that regard.
• 46:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Otherwise, I'm not, oh, I'm a Frankenstein.
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, I'm deeply familiar with Frankenstein.
• 46:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: But the other two, I guess, then less familiar with, what about you?
• 46:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you have more familiarity than I do.
• 46:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, Frankenstein, that one's lobbyists, but I've heard of Viandland, but I hadn't had any experience with it or hadn't seen, I'm sorry, Reddit hadn't read any of the others.
• 46:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: What was, I mean, seeing these movies did make me more interested in reading them.
• 46:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: For example, I suspect I might like the novel of Hamlet more than the movie.
• 46:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, interesting.
• 46:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so I haven't named the nominees.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me do that real quick.
• 47:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we have one battle after another.
• 47:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hamnith, Frankenstein, train dreams, and Bagoña.
• 47:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: So let's start with the front runner in this category, which is Paul Thomas Anderson for one battle after another.
• 47:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's also the director of the film.
• 47:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a Warner Brothers film based on, as you said, the novel, Vineland by Thomas Pinchin.
• 47:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I've actually, I mean Thomas Pinchin, obviously super important and famous writer.
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I've read any of his books personally.
• 47:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like not for any good reason.
• 47:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: They just haven't, it just hasn't come up in my life.
• 47:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I am very curious.
• 47:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know how it compares.
• 47:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: People say,
• 47:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, this movie is apparently considered a comedy.
• 47:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if it's considered a comedy.
• 47:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: His book is definitely considered a comedy.
• 47:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that is one.
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: A journalist, maybe.
• 47:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
• 47:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: A journalist.
• 47:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's fair.
• 47:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think I would actually be interested in reading that book at some point.
• 48:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: or at least one of his books.
• 48:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: So if any listeners have any Thomas Pinchin recommendations, if you think I should start with a by-land or some somewhere else, then please jump into the discord or send an email to lorhoundsatthelorhounds.com.
• 48:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I should read some Thomas Pinchin at some point in my life, right?
• 48:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It takes a whole lifetime to read no Thomas Benchon.
• 48:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's taken more than 40 years so far.
• 48:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this is obviously the other most nominated film of the years.
• 48:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've already talked, it's got 13 nominations at the Oscars.
• 48:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've already talked about it in Best Picture Preview.
• 48:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: production design cinematography editing and sound score direct today we're talking director in adopted screenplay and then it's got a lot of acting nominations so we talk about it in the final episode for best actors supporting actor times two supporting actress and casting and the plot is when their evil nemesis resurfaces after 16 years a band of expert
• 49:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: David was really activated by this film and led three episodes, which are linked in the show notes, talking to different people about the film.
• 49:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is, it's one of the two biggest movies of the year.
• 49:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, yeah, Warner Brothers has both, which is why it should not sell.
• 49:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: This one cost somewhere between 130, 175 million to make got 209.3 million at the box office.
• 49:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Faced some similar controversies to sinners when it came out, but more muted.
• 49:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Where people like why can you, why do you spend so much money on a original film like that?
• 49:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's never going to make the money back.
• 49:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, there you go.
• 49:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Also one of the most highly rated films of the year overall, although the public score and Rotten Tomatoes, like the critic score, 94% were positive.
• 49:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: The public score, 85%, so that just shows maybe a little bit of people who feel like me or I'm like, I don't know if it's one of the two best films of the year, but okay.
• 50:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: What did you think about one battle after another overall?
• 50:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I got mixed feelings, mixed feelings, so I, I think it's tapping into like this kind of absurdity or satire and then reminded me a bit of bonfire of the vanities.
• 50:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 50:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 50:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that type of, um,
• 50:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And because, but it didn't feel like it was playing that note hard enough, so actually it just felt like this very politically neutral fake on really extreme things, which made me really uncomfortable that it kind of wouldn't take a stance, but there was something in it for everyone.
• 50:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: left-wing, I mean, and it's safe to say it is so, so hard to take this outside of the context of the current political climate, right?
• 51:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: So if I don't think anyone is, yeah.
• 51:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: But where we are now, and this is here, or we are here, you know, it's all these left-wing revolutionaries who are all really
• 51:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Feckless and a bit stupid and one is literally a cuck.
• 51:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I mean, he's a cuckold.
• 51:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It feels almost like it's written as right wing propaganda, but it doesn't quite get there and then there's also like the other side of that, like all these hardcore right wing right nationalists who have all the real power, but are also stupid.
• 51:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And are absurd, but depending if you align with them, they may seem less absurd.
• 51:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I'm saying that I don't know how hard they played that satire note.
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think anyone on the left is gonna see them as ridiculous because they're plainly absurd and stupid, right, nationalist.
• 52:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: But actually if you agree with them, I don't know that it hits that same note.
• 52:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's interesting that you say you think it even leans conservative because the reason why I push back so much in this film and I know some people have heard me say this a few times now is that I just I think that all these people are saying like this is the film we need right now it's anti fascist I'm like, is it what is it?
• 52:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think like, and I keep, I know I'm a broken record on this, but I think the long walk for me is my anti-fascist film of the year because that really investigates like, this is what fascism looks like, this is what it looks like, the fight fascism for better or worse, so the, the good, the bad and the ugly of it.
• 52:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And um, this one was more of a parse and I think on that.
• 52:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: sense the film can be quite an enjoyable rom, you know, through all these wild set pieces and, you know, we've talked a lot about so that there's a car chase at the end, that gets a lot of attention, there's the whole beneath the old Toro bit, that gets a lot of attention, and all of that is fun, but I just
• 53:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I really, I bristle when people call this like what we need to talk about fascism right now.
• 53:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, it's mentioned, it's definitely a character in the film fascism, but it's not a deeply drawn character.
• 53:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I agree with you completely.
• 53:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't believe anybody would argue that this is against fascism.
• 53:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it is to me trying to have a revolution with white gloves.
• 53:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is absolutely
• 53:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: trying to make a political statement, it is trying to appeal to everybody and say a little bit, all of y'all are stupid, and for me, I can't get on board with that.
• 54:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if I take it purely as entertainment, it's an entertaining movie, I love the acting, I had a lot of, I mean, it was compelling, it really pulled me along with it, but that's only if I take it purely
• 54:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, ignore all of the political place where we find ourselves.
• 54:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I find it kind of unconscionable that it doesn't make a stronger statement morally.
• 54:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you see the Alex Garland film Civil War from a couple years ago?
• 54:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: do not have the stomach for that.
• 54:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, that's fair.
• 54:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think you would have the same problems with it for the same reasons.
• 54:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'd say, for me, that was like my Wagner Moore awakening, that's where I most, and finally remember it for, and there's some really cool set pieces in all that, but it's the same thing where it comes down to being so pointedly, apolitical, that, yeah, I just, it's, I struggle with that aspect of it.
• 55:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, if you want to see it for yourself, it's on HBO Max.
• 55:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a whopping two hours and 42 minutes long.
• 55:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Although, I don't know that I felt the length, per se, although I do think that they could really tighten it up.
• 55:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why I don't love it being in this category, because a lot of what I don't love about it comes down to the writing.
• 55:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think that it strengths lie much more in other categories, so I'm a bit disappointed.
• 55:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's likely to win this, um, but behind all of this is the fact that it's a Paul Thomas Anderson film and this is Paul Thomas Anderson's 12th 13th for directing and 14th for best picture Oscar nominations, but he has not yet won for anything.
• 55:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there's this strong story going around that he's overdue because he's considered one of the greatest directors of the current era.
• 55:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
• 55:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are you a fan of his past film of his other works at all?
• 56:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not per se.
• 56:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 56:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I like them.
• 56:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: I watch them all.
• 56:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like some more than others.
• 56:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not a fanatic.
• 56:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm not a passionate fan of his, like so many people I know in the film community.
• 56:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I understand in the directing category with the last one we'll talk about this overdue narrative, but I don't love that this film is most likely to win a depthed screenplay.
• 56:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm with you on that.
• 56:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's, I mean, but it's blown away the competition at all of the precursors.
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's won 23 times, including critics, choice, golden globes, bathed us the night before we recorded it won the writer's Guild of America award.
• 56:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's pretty much locked to win, but
• 56:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would go for one of the others in this category to be honest.
• 56:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think there's four other great options that I, where I think the writing is stronger.
• 57:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's talk about the other biggest film of this year.
• 57:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the four big films of this year, obviously there's centers in one battle beside that,
• 57:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: it's considered to be Marty Supreme and Hamlet.
• 57:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hamlet has eight nominations, so we talked about a best picture preview, production design and costumes, school, today we're talking about a adapted screenplay and directing, and we'll talk about it again for best actress and casting.
• 57:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's most likely to win best actress overall.
• 57:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this category, though, adapted screenplay, the nominees are Chloe Jowl, the director, and Maggie Oferrell, the writer of the novel on which it's based.
• 57:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is a US UK co-production from Focus Features and Universal about in the
• 57:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this is, I've talked about a lot.
• 57:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the one about Shakespeare's wife and kids.
• 57:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: It costs 35 million to make, made 93 million at the box office.
• 57:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Has, high reviews, but the critics reviews, actually, I'm surprised, 86% of critics gave it a positive score in Rotten Tomato versus 93% of the audience.
• 58:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: 4.2 and letter box, which is an extremely high score.
• 58:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can see it yourself by renting it now.
• 58:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's two hours and six minutes long.
• 58:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we can't talk about the ending, but we can refer obliquely to it.
• 58:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: What do you think about this film overall?
• 58:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I admire the ambition more than I admire the finished product.
• 58:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of feel like overall, it's just really heavy-handed about suffering.
• 58:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I wish there was a little bit more depth,
• 58:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: some more emotions to feel aside from misery.
• 58:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'll say, I mean, I'm kind of a broken record on this one too, since I've talked about a few times now, but I'll just quickly say that I liked, I was surprisingly surprised when I went in by the first half that there is,
• 59:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, the sad thing doesn't happen until at least halfway through, uh, I enjoyed like the coding aspect, I enjoyed, uh, the witchiness.
• 59:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't expect that going in that, um, that Agnes, Agnes, Agnes, Hathaway or whatever we're calling her Shakespeare, uh, that she, uh,
• 59:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, and then that episode of not just the tutors podcast I mentioned, the writer goes into, you know, they ask her, why did you include this aspect?
• 59:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she's like, well, here's the evidence from Shakespeare's place that he has this knowledge that only someone with that sort of background would likely have.
• 59:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: So where did he get that?
• 59:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, why not his wife?
• 59:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I enjoyed those aspects of it.
• 59:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then I just have to say, my
• 59:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: the positive feelings I have toward this film do in large part come down to the end and I think that's maybe why general audiences responded to it at slightly better than critics because it leaves you with this, you know, I don't know, aching heart when you leave.
• 1:00:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know that I shared that.
• 1:00:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I'm, you and I could just have to have a VALDA what part of the, or what the ending gave to you.
• 1:00:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: But no, I think what I appreciated it was more, as I agree with you kind of the idea that she's this incredible forest witch and it's really striking to see her portrayed as the far more
• 1:00:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: interesting and strong person and William Shakespeare more of like a kind of useless centering Chad who can who can barely put two words together in a sentence he's useless and it was an interesting take on him that okay maybe he could write but he certainly can't get it together as a person or as a partner.
• 1:01:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah what's interesting you've seen Shakespeare in love
• 1:01:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: yeah yeah so this i feel like in some ways she was almost responding to films like that or that version of the story which is about you know William Shakespeare he's married this true of an older woman and uh so he runs away to London and falls in love there you know and um
• 1:01:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Maggie O. Farrell's like, wait a minute, actually.
• 1:01:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: If we look at when they got together, yes, she's older, but like, why would she be interested in him?
• 1:01:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because he came, he was a son of a deadter who had nothing to his name at the time, and she was from an established family and, you know, why would she, yeah, he, she was like,
• 1:02:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: She had, I don't want to say the upper hand, but she was the prize, basically, that he, and so it made sense to pursue it for that.
• 1:02:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, and Maggio Ferrell's like, why do we have to say that he hated his wife?
• 1:02:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because we saw he kept sending most of his money back home.
• 1:02:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't unusual for someone to go work in London and send their money back to the to the countryside.
• 1:02:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously things like that still happen today.
• 1:02:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I really appreciate that aspect.
• 1:02:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think
• 1:02:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: This one, I don't know, I have to think about it, but this one might be the one that I would vote for if I got a vote on this.
• 1:02:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is, it's the first Oscar nomination for O'Farewell, of course, but it's the fifth and sixth for directing for Chloe Shao, Chloe Shao won twice two for directing and for best picture for
• 1:02:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this is sort of welcoming her back into the fold, but she, yeah, she's not been winning the precursors for this mostly it's been going to one battle after another, and so I'm afraid I don't think this will be it either.
• 1:03:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:03:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I, I'm trying to think like if anyone could, could challenge one battle after another, maybe it's either this or maybe train dreams.
• 1:03:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe there's enough love there.
• 1:03:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see.
• 1:03:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see.
• 1:03:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see.
• 1:03:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
• 1:03:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's the next three are the ones that are sort of the outliers in this category, less likely to win.
• 1:03:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think except for I said train dreams.
• 1:03:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: So let's take a quick break and when we come back, we'll talk about them.
• 1:03:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
• 1:03:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, let's talk about first the one that I think we're probably all most familiar with the source material.
• 1:04:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I think that kind of gives him a tougher job to be honest.
• 1:04:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, I'm talking about Guillermo de Toro's Frankenstein, which he wrote and directed.
• 1:04:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a Netflix movie.
• 1:04:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can watch it there.
• 1:04:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's two and a half hours long and there is also a date already.
• 1:04:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: And did not only a deep dive, which is linked in the show notes, but through there, you could also link back to a deep dive I did into the movies from the 30s and before that I did deep dives into the creation of the book.
• 1:04:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm in all the way on this property, it's obviously based on the novel White Mary Shelley.
• 1:04:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: this film received nine nominations this year, best picture production design costume, makeup and hair score, cinematography, sound, adapted screenplay and supporting actor.
• 1:04:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: The plot is Frankenstein, but this is like more the Mary Shelley kind, rather than, you know, the Universal Monsters, James Whale kind.
• 1:05:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: But, uh...
• 1:05:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Del Toro chose to focus in this version on daddy issues and monster pining.
• 1:05:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I do think it ends on a slightly more hopeful note than most of them.
• 1:05:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: It cost 120 million to make made almost nothing at the box office because Netflix obviously barely released it Netflix being Netflix.
• 1:05:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is one where audiences seem to have embraced it slightly more than critics.
• 1:05:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's got a 3.8 on letterboxed, and this is Del Toro's 7th and 8th nominations, because he was also nominated for Best Picture.
• 1:05:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's previously won three Oscars for the shape of water,
• 1:05:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: for directing and best picture, and for the animated feature for Guillermo de Torres Pinocchio, not to be confused with Disney's version, which sucks his version's good.
• 1:05:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Although I do have to, when I was diving into his Oscar background, I have to say, Penn's Labyrinth was nominated in 2006 for Best Screenplay and was robbed.
• 1:06:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Little Miss Sunshine 1, which is a fine.
• 1:06:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's a fun movie, but come on,
• 1:06:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, which is, what's your overall feelings about Frankenstein about this version of Frankenstein?
• 1:06:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: To me this felt really typical of what I think are some of the common complaints about Netflix productions that, for example, they insist on you repeat the plot three times in the scripts because people are doing second-screen watching or things like this.
• 1:06:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: was a weak point.
• 1:06:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:06:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was, um, you know, really overwrought, really spelled out.
• 1:06:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, he's not the monster.
• 1:06:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're the monster.
• 1:06:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just the bugs.
• 1:06:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of like that, too.
• 1:06:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It may be, but this is an adaptation.
• 1:06:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you have some freedom, right, too, to improve upon or not, you know, to to modernize, to to make it that way.
• 1:07:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And,
• 1:07:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even if your idea is to be true to the spirit and to be that literal and to really spell things out, I just, that for me is not what makes strong screenplay.
• 1:07:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And as well, this whole set up that he's telling his story to the captain of this boat.
• 1:07:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: after having that monster has just killed six of his men.
• 1:07:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I just don't buy that set up that somebody killed six of your men and you're like, oh, tell me your life story, starting with, well, my mother and father.
• 1:07:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, no, I don't care about your mother and father.
• 1:07:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Don't give me your nonsense.
• 1:07:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's going on here, right?
• 1:07:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So already they lost me a bit on the framing of why you're telling the story,
• 1:08:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Who's going to sit around and just listen to some some guy talk like that?
• 1:08:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, so you know Mary Shelley was inspired by the rhyme of the ancient mariner by Samuel Coolidge, which is, but he hadn't did true in the rhyme of the ancient mariner.
• 1:08:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: He, the ancient mariner in question, he detains a would be wedding guest, but he hasn't killed his crew.
• 1:08:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: They did definitely lean into more
• 1:08:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: of the violence, I think, in that opening, which I suppose was probably, I mean, it's a typical filmmaking thing, but I could also imagine it being a Netflix prerogative, like we have to open with something violence, or people won't pay attention.
• 1:08:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I have mostly positive feelings about this, as I laid out at length in the podcast about it, but I do, I'm not as passionate about this film as I would have hoped, given my love for the source material and everything, but I think, as I said, it's just,
• 1:09:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've now, this year alone, I've watched dozens of adaptations of Frankenstein and a rewrite of twice.
• 1:09:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's just, I went in expecting him to pick up on certain social justice aspects of the story.
• 1:09:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know why.
• 1:09:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's just because it was Alicia's Frankenstein, the character of Justin, definitely would have been in there and given a bigger focus.
• 1:09:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that just shows my interest in the movie.
• 1:09:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I just think that this story, because it's been adopted so many times, especially it's such an interesting mirror into the psyche of whoever adapts it.
• 1:09:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so what Guillermo del Toro was interested in was his,
• 1:09:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: relationship with his own father and son, including apparently this wild story I've talked about in other podcasts about where I didn't know this before, but his father was kidnapped at some point and held for ransom until Steven Spielberg paid the ransom and they'll told him why this happened and then like when he was close to death had a big talk with him and so that
• 1:10:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: That was the, that's why he gave the creature a chance, sorry, the minor spoiler for Frankenstein.
• 1:10:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Come on, you know, Frankenstein.
• 1:10:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: He gave the creature a chance to talk to and have, there's a, there's some moments of forgiveness in this that aren't present in other versions of the story that I really appreciate.
• 1:10:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like I'm too close to this one to really evaluate it.
• 1:10:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I understand the people who are really passionately and love with this film.
• 1:10:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: I understand the people who are like, oh, it's not what I hoped.
• 1:10:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I still haven't completely sorted through my feelings about it.
• 1:10:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's definitely a lot that I love.
• 1:10:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I understand why it's not like people are rushing to give it this award.
• 1:11:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, yeah, no, I think it had some nice style, but actually it was also really to me over-stylized and over-wrought.
• 1:11:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have a lot of criticisms for this movie, but the writing is kind of one of them, so.
• 1:11:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, all right.
• 1:11:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, lots of, lots of violence too, lots of gore.
• 1:11:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it is about a monster, but still lots of, I mean, lots of like close-ups, lots of stuff.
• 1:11:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:11:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's time to make a Keela scale.
• 1:11:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:11:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I interviewed someone who worked on some of the dead dogs.
• 1:11:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there's a separate interview in the feed for anyone who's interested about practical VFX with Lee Romair, where he talks about his background and how he got to do that.
• 1:11:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm less averse to Gore, I suppose.
• 1:11:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:11:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, well, let's move on to a film that really surprised me this year.
• 1:11:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Train dreams, written by Clint Bentley and Greg Quadar, directed by Clint Bentley.
• 1:12:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: This film is also available on Netflix now.
• 1:12:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's based on the novella, Train Dreams by Dennis Johnson, which I should just read or listen to or something, apparently it's only like if you listen to it's only a couple hours long.
• 1:12:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, this one received train dreams, received four nominations this year.
• 1:12:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we also talked about in Best Picture Preview, Song, and Cinematography, and now it also received adapted screenplay.
• 1:12:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, it's about a logger who leads a life of quite grace as he experiences love and lost during an era of monumental change in early 20th century America.
• 1:12:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Which did you think of
• 1:12:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: pretty classically traditional or like this celebration of like folksy simplicity.
• 1:12:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
• 1:12:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: There were quite a few moments that surprised me.
• 1:12:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And what I, but what I think this screenplay had going for it is it really knew how to work a silence.
• 1:13:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Meaning this is a man of very few words and very simple words
• 1:13:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's these dialogues where people pass along their words of wisdom or their, you know, one, one sentence.
• 1:13:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: insights into the way the world works and so it's like these moments of quite profondity that that wasn't so inspiring to me but it was it was more just for as long as the movie was they used their words sparingly and there was a lot more space given a silence and so it gave the actors a lot more chance to kind of convince us
• 1:13:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.
• 1:13:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, this is a film that's a series of...
• 1:14:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: images and conversations in large part, and I think the images side of the film across the board just spectacular, absolutely spectacular, beautiful film.
• 1:14:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: The conversations part, I thought all of the acting was great, I actually really loved William H. Macy's, I would have loved to
• 1:14:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: was kind of important, you know, this guy is kind of a lonely guy who makes a few deep connections in his life.
• 1:14:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that I found beautiful, but then when it comes to the individual conversations, it comes down to, are you vibing with that particular conversation?
• 1:14:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like some of them, I found deep and some of them, I was like, ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you just smoked the bowl in her, you know, whatever, even think you just covered the universe or whatever.
• 1:14:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, I think, yeah, the conversations were hit or miss for me, but overall, this film did leave an impression on me, but probably most especially with the visual unfolding of this 80 years of American history, from this perspective of being deep in the woods and, well, I forget where is it, basically, like Idaho or something.
• 1:15:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you can watch it for yourself on Netflix, it's an hour and 42 minutes long.
• 1:15:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is highly rated.
• 1:15:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's the second nomination for both Clint Bentley and Greg Quiddar who were previously nominated for writing Sing Sing, which is a movie that I really enjoyed.
• 1:15:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: I really liked years ago, I covered it in the Oscar's coverage there in the screenplay category.
• 1:15:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think I did want it to win a dafted screenplay there.
• 1:15:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm glad to see them honored again.
• 1:15:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is so wildly different from sing-sing, sing-sing is about a group, it's based on a true story.
• 1:15:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's based on a news article about this group of men and carcerated men who decide to put on a play in prison, in sing-sing.
• 1:16:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just such a beautiful film, like you don't expect a prison film to ever be like a warm hug and sing-sing is very much like that.
• 1:16:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this one actually is sadder than sing sing, but it's also like you can see some of the similarities, but it's also quite wildly different.
• 1:16:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I guess it is a pair, I hear it's a good adaptation of the book.
• 1:16:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: I really should have just given it two hours of my life by now, but I have not.
• 1:16:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm afraid to say, but I am glad to see it here.
• 1:16:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm less passionate about it here than I am about it.
• 1:16:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think if it wins anything, it'll probably be cinematography.
• 1:16:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but overall, I like this film.
• 1:16:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I like this film.
• 1:16:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: not as much as I like the last one, bugonia, which was written by Will Traci directed by one of my favorite all-time directors, Yorgos Lentimos.
• 1:17:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is a collaboration between the UK, Ireland, South Korea, and USA, a focus features film based on the South Korean film, Save the Green Planet from 2003, which was directed by Zhang Jun Hwan.
• 1:17:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: This Pugonia received four nominations this year, Best Picture Score, Adapted Screenplay, and Lead Actress for Emma Stone.
• 1:17:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's about two conspiracy obsessed young men who kidnapped the high-powered CEO of a major company convinced that she is an alien intent on destroying planet Earth.
• 1:17:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this, yeah, this one did not do as well in the box office as they might have hoped it barely broke even, I'm sure that renting at home has helped get over the finish line a bit.
• 1:17:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's gotten, I mean, strong positive reviews, but not necessarily as strong.
• 1:17:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think this is one that's more divisive of opinions for reasons will skirt around.
• 1:18:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: It has a 3.9 letter box, which is very strong.
• 1:18:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can decide for yourself by watching it on peacock, it's an hour and 58 minutes long.
• 1:18:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now I'll just say we won't talk about what the ending is, but I will say that the ending is make or break it.
• 1:18:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: For a lot of people, the way it ends, takes a turn at the ending.
• 1:18:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: What did you think about this film overall?
• 1:18:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, now it's the age of conspiracy theories, so it definitely felt of the time.
• 1:18:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's so weird in a very positive way that I think I really enjoyed it.
• 1:18:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I enjoyed its bazaarness and the commitment of the characters to this very absurd script.
• 1:18:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so it's, uh, you know, I, there's a little bit of what I think is unnecessary or, uh, but that it definitely adds to the flavor, if you will, uh, of the movie.
• 1:19:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, um, it's, you know, it's, I like weird movies, and this, to me, felt like a weird movie.
• 1:19:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It makes sense to me that this was, uh, based on a South Korean movie.
• 1:19:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, um, I watched Save the Green Planet first.
• 1:19:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I kind of, this for this film, I wished that I had seen them in the opposite order because I think I would have liked, but I really liked Bagonia, but I would have liked it even more if I hadn't seen Save the Green Planet first.
• 1:19:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's not just because it's boils things because there are a lot of differences, but the South Korean version has a bit more absurdity.
• 1:19:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and this version on the other hand, it is more of a deeper character study.
• 1:20:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I do really appreciate that about this version.
• 1:20:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, they both have the same left turn ending, but then the final screens that you are shown are different.
• 1:20:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I prefer the Save the Green Planet version with that leaves you with, uh, which I can tell you afterward.
• 1:20:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'll just say it's, it's
• 1:20:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: it leaves you with a look back on the life of the main characters in a sort of video montage that just maybe for Climbed.
• 1:20:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I can say that, I think.
• 1:20:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, this one, yeah, I think that I was in this case,
• 1:20:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: being familiar with the source material didn't help me, but I still think that it was a great written character study, although I am a bit disturbed and probably should be about what does it say about conspiracy theorists, you know, in terms of like you think the question is,
• 1:21:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, no, it's just herely.
• 1:21:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, indeed.
• 1:21:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't respond to that, no, no, no, no, no, I know.
• 1:21:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know, yeah, it's hard to skirt around the ending there.
• 1:21:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: But did you like the ending?
• 1:21:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Were you happy it ended that way?
• 1:21:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I celebrate the movie's weirdness.
• 1:21:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let me put it like that.
• 1:21:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, given the, given the setup of the movie, meaning these, these two guys kidnapped a woman and put her in their basement, you can play out scenarios in your mind for how this is gonna end, and a whole lot of them were like really unpleasant.
• 1:21:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I really didn't know where they were gonna take it.
• 1:21:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so I,
• 1:21:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess that's something interesting to me about the way they chose to take it.
• 1:22:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, um, this is the first Oscar nomination for the writer Will Tracy, but um, I do enjoy his his password.
• 1:22:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: He worked on succession, the TV show apparently he wrote the menu, which is a weird, horror, foody film that I rather enjoyed.
• 1:22:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm definitely looking forward to more from Will Tracy.
• 1:22:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: If he were to win this one, he would be only the third person to win for a film that is based
• 1:22:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: the previous two winners are the departed from 2006 and Coda from 2021 and I just really I just saw there's a new adaptation.
• 1:22:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Coda is an adaptation of the French Belgium film La Famine Billier and I just saw there's a new Italian film coming out that's also an adaptation of that.
• 1:22:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: and a Hindi musical, so that, yeah, I kind of, if anyone doesn't know it's about a deaf family with a hearing child, and it seems to be a story that just resonates.
• 1:23:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, sorry, digression, if this one, it would be only the third to win for, you know, for adapting another film.
• 1:23:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, again, I would rather this win than one battle after another, would I rather it win than Hamlet?
• 1:23:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I don't know.
• 1:23:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like my Anthemos.
• 1:23:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: How would you rank this category, adapted screenplay, how would you rank the five nominees?
• 1:23:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh gosh.
• 1:23:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: This, yeah, this one.
• 1:23:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Who would you want to win?
• 1:23:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Who would I want to win?
• 1:23:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:23:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh gosh.
• 1:23:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the feminists in me once the
• 1:23:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: They have to win on that principle, but honestly it wasn't the screenplay that I thought was best.
• 1:23:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't the okay I it just didn't live up to me.
• 1:24:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I mean I I think Bugonia is what I'm you guys what I'm voting for and then I put that yeah, I'll go with you on that actually Yeah, and
• 1:24:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Surprisingly to me, my next choice I think would be train dreams.
• 1:24:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:24:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I first saw it, I had more criticisms of it, but now as I put it into all this context, I appreciate its silences.
• 1:24:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:24:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then after that one battle after another,
• 1:24:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: and hand it and then dead last Frankenstein okay all right um one battle would be my dead last in this particular category um and yeah I would I guess I would most like bagonia hamnut or train dreams to win but they won't and Frankenstein would be in the middle yeah
• 1:24:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
• 1:24:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, so those are the two screenplay categories.
• 1:25:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now we're going to take one final quick break and when we come back, we're going to look at what did the directors do with those films, because spoiler alerts, all five directing nominees.
• 1:25:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've already talked about today.
• 1:25:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Be right back.
• 1:25:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, let's get into our final category for today best director.
• 1:25:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: This has been handed out since the very first awards in 1929.
• 1:25:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: That first year it was split by genre, but never since.
• 1:25:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Would you rather see like a comedy versus drama?
• 1:25:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Have those two separate categories?
• 1:25:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, just in terms of craft, I'm not sure how much that makes a difference.
• 1:25:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: If we're looking at the craft of direction, maybe it doesn't really matter, but I could see the case to be made for both, actually, and I'm curious how much that would change things.
• 1:26:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, the thing is, like, when you split comedy in drama, it always feels like dramas are slipping and sneaking into the comedy category and taking it away from real comedies.
• 1:26:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: But if we had that split, we would have no other choice as a nominee, which is one of my favorite films of the year, and I continue to be mad about not getting an nominee.
• 1:26:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:26:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the way best directors nominees are determined is rank choice voting within the director's branch.
• 1:26:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: You'll hear me talk about that more in the acting episode.
• 1:26:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that, yeah, that influences things.
• 1:26:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: When it comes to the final vote for the win, only best picture is rank choice voting.
• 1:26:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: The rest is just, you know, you pick your favorites and most tallies win.
• 1:26:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Last year's winner was again, Sean Baker for Anora.
• 1:26:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: which was the big winner overall last year.
• 1:26:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: This year, the five nominees are Paul Thomas Anderson for one battle after another, Ryan Kougler for sinners, Chloe Zhao for Hamlet, Josh Saffty for Marty Supreme, and Joaquim Trayer for Sentimental Value.
• 1:27:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: So what's your overall thoughts on this batch of nominees?
• 1:27:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think my pick for this would be sinners, maybe sentimental value.
• 1:27:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I, but if sentimental value got top writer or a best writer, then I might deal with that compromise too, but I think those for me are the best,
• 1:27:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in terms of in terms of movies.
• 1:27:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:27:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm glad to see Chloe Zhao here for Hamlet, but there are a lot more films directed by women last year that it should also be getting attention or maybe I would even prefer to get attention.
• 1:27:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Chloe Zhao is the first
• 1:28:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: female best picture, best director, winner, who received a follow-up nomination in the category.
• 1:28:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: So just her being nominated a second time in this category is a win.
• 1:28:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't necessarily think she should or will take it this time, but she is the only woman of color ever nominated here.
• 1:28:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: So just like, I would say do better.
• 1:28:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's not a reason to give it to him at this time, but just in general do better.
• 1:28:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I already talked about the Josh Saffee but I don't think he's likely to win it or the controversy and just people are kind of look warm about it.
• 1:28:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sentimental value would be my second choice in this category, but I think our best hopes for sentimental value to win things is international, of course, where it'll be between that and the secret agent from Brazil to win.
• 1:28:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And,
• 1:28:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think that's honestly an acting perhaps for maybe for Stellan Skarsgard.
• 1:29:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but obviously it comes down really to surprise surprise one battle after another versus sinners and one battle after another has the precursors.
• 1:29:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's one 23 times versus sinners hasn't won any best directing nominations, which I think it's insane to me, insane, because everything that makes sinners what it is is Ryan Kougler's integration of all of the different
• 1:29:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: creatives and crafts and actors and everything and the way that he makes his films with all of these people working together from the inception of it and sinners is what it is because Ryan coogler made it so as the director.
• 1:29:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: So
• 1:29:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: He should be winning, like I'm tearing back, but we had to talk to it.
• 1:29:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, one bad often another has taken awards at critics, choice, golden globes, bathed as the director's Guild Award, the producer's Guild Award.
• 1:30:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's almost certainly going to win here.
• 1:30:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I understand in terms of like the Let's For Award, Paul Thomas Anderson
• 1:30:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: that better in this category, as I said, than in the writing, and I'm happier with him winning in this category versus the writing.
• 1:30:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have anything against Paul Thomas Anderson.
• 1:30:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think he's one of the greats.
• 1:30:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just think that Ryan Couglar has made a film that we're going to be talking about still decades from now, and I would like to see that rewarded.
• 1:30:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah.
• 1:30:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think if Paul Thomas Anderson wins this award, which seems likely, it doesn't mean that sinners won't win best picture.
• 1:30:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I think we've said in other episodes, if sinners wins this award, that definitely means sinners is winning best picture.
• 1:31:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:31:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I just think it's kind of crazy in general for
• 1:31:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: a vampire movie to be in these categories at all.
• 1:31:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that to me is unexpected and speaks to how rich he made the movie beyond that, beyond just being a silly vampire movie.
• 1:31:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, there's humor in it, but it's definitely never silly.
• 1:31:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would say it's because it is so many, the vampires are metaphors, obviously.
• 1:31:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's, you know, I'm a huge prestige, horror fan, and what I like about it is the way that horror allows you to create these metaphors like this, and talk about
• 1:31:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: history and societal hills in more accessible ways.
• 1:31:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I say this as someone who, you know, has a background of the, I would be team vampires because, you know, my background is like a chaotic, uh, poor Celtic people in the deep south.
• 1:32:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm one side of my family.
• 1:32:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, um,
• 1:32:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I just, I guess this goes back to screenplay more, but I can't stop thinking about this film and I've watched it four times now.
• 1:32:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and so I have an unfair bias.
• 1:32:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: But as I said, in this category with director, I just want Couglard Wim because this film is what it is because of the way he synthesized all of the parts which is the role of the director.
• 1:32:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:32:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: But Paul Thomas Anderson and fine, he'll get his Oscar and then...
• 1:32:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I hope he makes, it's just, I like other Paul Thomas Anderson movies more.
• 1:32:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I understand, you know, I said this, the politics of it.
• 1:32:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I understand that like, that's not necessarily how it works.
• 1:33:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like maybe he should have won for Phantom Thread, but he didn't.
• 1:33:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: So now people are like, give the man and Husker.
• 1:33:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I understand that.
• 1:33:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: But not when it's up against sinners.
• 1:33:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: It feels, I can't really, I have a hard time explaining why I don't root for it at all.
• 1:33:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's because it feels to me like the good on paper movie.
• 1:33:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's doing, it's checking the boxes and it's like trying to, I don't know.
• 1:33:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: it feels it feels like the natural win or something and like I don't but somehow I if I ask myself kind of the questions like which of these movies am I going to be recommending to people which of these movies am I going to still be talking about which of these would I use as a like a case study for to illustrate the way filmmaking has been done in a really good way
• 1:34:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I could point to centers, I could point to sentimental value, one battle after another, I think one thing that it does well is shifting, yeah, this is, I'm using very clumsy language for this, but like, it's shifting perspective in the sense of, you know, we follow different characters through this.
• 1:34:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was saying, I really,
• 1:34:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would kind of like to read the pension not to get a sense of how it's different because I really believe that the story is all about the guy.
• 1:34:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the director probably made a choice to like kind of shift between these different characters and give us more stories than just one person.
• 1:34:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like how does this affect lots of people?
• 1:34:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do they see it?
• 1:34:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is something that I like about it.
• 1:34:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
• 1:34:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I like that.
• 1:35:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm one battle.
• 1:35:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's more successful as a Daddy daughter movie to me than it is as an anti-fascist move.
• 1:35:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, totally.
• 1:35:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I'm still with you on a like nothing anti-fascist about this.
• 1:35:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.
• 1:35:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:35:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, how would you rank this category if we try to, I mean, I know it's hard for us to like of the writing side, but if we just think about the director, the person who is at the helm of the film, bringing all of the pieces together and sort of responsible for the overall success of the movie, how would you rank these five nominations?
• 1:35:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, top picks that are mental value.
• 1:35:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Second picks, okay.
• 1:35:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Third pick, one battle after another, fourth pick, Hamlet, dead last, as always.
• 1:35:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Party Supreme.
• 1:35:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
• 1:35:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm obviously going sinners top pick.
• 1:35:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll go sentimental value second.
• 1:36:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then I'm going to go Marty Supreme, then Hamlet, and then one battle.
• 1:36:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, but yeah, it's between sinners and one battle and probably one battle wins.
• 1:36:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see.
• 1:36:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see.
• 1:36:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: If sinners wins, I will be dancing.
• 1:36:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hope that I'll be doing lots of dancing.
• 1:36:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:36:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm rooting for sinners.
• 1:36:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, all right.
• 1:36:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, this, this was a super fun conversation, Katherine.
• 1:36:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are there any other films from 2025?
• 1:36:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: You love it that you want to shout out?
• 1:36:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Only one movie really comes to mind, and this is not really high cinema, but was an unexpectedly feel good sentimental movie, which was the movie non-ness.
• 1:36:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, okay, we've talked about it because actually David has been to that restaurant.
• 1:36:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and it was nominated for, I was nominated for a couple of things, but there's also one of them was definitely the TV movie Emmy.
• 1:37:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I, I loved it less, but it's fun.
• 1:37:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:37:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a fun feel.
• 1:37:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Would you want to set up what it is?
• 1:37:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh gosh.
• 1:37:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, the story based on a true story of a,
• 1:37:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: group of grandmothers who start cooking Italian food together with the help of a guy who basically opens a restaurant full of knownas.
• 1:37:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:37:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:37:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a rag tag team of knownas cooking and finding value and purpose again through cooking and connection through food.
• 1:37:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, very much
• 1:37:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, yeah, that's a fun one.
• 1:37:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, and, um, remind us, you talked about at the beginning.
• 1:37:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll remind us again what you're up to and where people can find you and, of course, these links are in the shoutouts.
• 1:37:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I continue writing, editing, and taking pictures and you can find more about what I'm doing on my website, octobernite.com.
• 1:38:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, awesome.
• 1:38:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you so much, Katherine, and I'm glad we see Ida I on one panel of ancestors.
• 1:38:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you again to Catherine and for anyone who's interested or who's caught up on these films stick around after the outro after the closing music for a full spoiler discussion of these films.
• 1:38:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: We talk about all of them except for Frankenstein and Blue Moon with full spoilers.
• 1:38:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we can, you know, all the punches we were pulling when we were having the conversation we can just speak openly about them and what we do and don't like about some of the most iconic endings in the Oscars races here.
• 1:38:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it makes sense that some of them have landed here in these categories in the writing categories specifically.
• 1:38:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: And for all of you one battle fans, sorry if we were little tough on your movie, just want to say there are lots of fans elsewhere in this coverage.
• 1:39:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: See, for example, the last episode about the tech categories where Dakota called it his favorite movie of the race.
• 1:39:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, David's three deep dives.
• 1:39:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And by the way, he also did a deep dive into civil war last year, the other film that I brought up as being similar and set up and, you know,
• 1:39:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Bent.
• 1:39:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, you'll find that linked in the show notes.
• 1:39:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And HamNetFans, we just released a separate short what you watch in episode for Supercast and Patreon subscribers.
• 1:39:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: That will be linked in the show notes.
• 1:39:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And in response to that,
• 1:39:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Marilyn wrote and this also responds to a conversation that Katherine and I had in this episode.
• 1:39:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: She said, having just listened to Alicia and David's what you're watching about Hamlet, I think I would say now that Alicia, you and I have different ideas of what the word which or which he meets.
• 1:40:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Certainly, many witches also identify themselves as green women, but not all green women are witches.
• 1:40:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I guess that's the closest I can come to it.
• 1:40:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: If she were a witch to my mind, I would've expected Ania's to be doing full and or new moon rituals.
• 1:40:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Beyond the rejection of the Christian God, I felt no sense that there was any divine being in her practice or her belief system.
• 1:40:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: There was certainly capital P power, and it was in the raptor, and the forest, and the earth, and all of those things, and I loved it.
• 1:40:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: But there were no beings who embodied that power.
• 1:40:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Mind you, I only watched it once, so I might have missed references to the mother and so on.
• 1:40:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I think I overspoke when I said absolutely no witchcraft there, but the strongest I could say would be that it is which adjacent.
• 1:40:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: which, yeah, which WH, I see, fair enough, I think that there maybe we do have different definitions in what we mean by which I do tend to be loose or in definitions in general and also maybe I place less emphasis on, you know, embodied divine powers rather than just the divine power being of the Earth, which is more of like what we saw in Hemnip.
• 1:41:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe I respond more to the type of green woman nisses as Marilyn calls it that we saw in this film.
• 1:41:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I actually do think she probably does moon rituals just because we don't see it.
• 1:41:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think she doesn't do it.
• 1:41:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: But for any subscribers who haven't got a chance to yet, you can check out that new Hamnic coverage.
• 1:41:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: For more discussion on this topic in the rest, and you will, of course, in this boiler section, here, more discussion of the ending of Hamnic between Katherine and I. I get a little weepy, again.
• 1:41:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I will also link in the show notes, a witchcraft episode that Marilyn and I talked more about these topics in detail from the history of witchcraft to, you know, what that might look like today.
• 1:42:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: That one is also for subscribers and Catherine shows up there as well for some McBethian cameos.
• 1:42:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: But as for the Oscar series, there is one final pre Oscars episode coming later today.
• 1:42:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is the acting and casting episode.
• 1:42:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, just want to give you at least a few days to catch up on whatever ones you want to because the Oscars air this Sunday, March 15th,
• 1:42:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: at 8 p.m. Eastern time, so they air in the U.S. on ABC or Hulu and like ITV and Britain and various places around the world, there's a link in the show, and it's where you can look up where it airs in your country.
• 1:42:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we will be doing a live watch chat on the Lohound's Discord.
• 1:42:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: So you can find of course the link to the Lohound's Discord in the show notes.
• 1:42:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'd love to have you join us there to talk about this and anything else that we're discussing.
• 1:43:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: but we will be gathering in the live watch awards channel there.
• 1:43:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Probably about an hour before the awards when the red carpet is going.
• 1:43:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then after the ceremony, next week, David and I will have a traditional wrap up episode where we respond to the ceremony and the results and share our best picture rankings probably with a few extra films thrown in this year.
• 1:43:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, of course, as always, there's lots more going on in the network.
• 1:43:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Check out the weekly, the pick coverage.
• 1:43:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's more one piece coverage coming, the bone temple, the subscribers.
• 1:43:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: You have even more coming.
• 1:43:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's the warehouse wars coming this weekend for second breakfast.
• 1:43:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the March of the Millennials poll is almost closed.
• 1:43:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think Mean Girls is going to take it.
• 1:43:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: We need more.
• 1:43:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, brother, love.
• 1:43:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, if you're interested in finding out more about any of that, you'll find also a link tree in the show notes with links to the super cast and patreon options.
• 1:44:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Same options, two different ways to get access.
• 1:44:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, things are busy throughout the network properly.
• 1:44:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Howard has just kicked off their newlywed season, which is basically filmed one of them hasn't seen with the running man, where they compare the original running man to the new movie release this year.
• 1:44:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: And never mind the music just released a Shania Twain episode so if you enjoyed Mark and are never mind the Oscar's music episode there was just released a few days before this check out what he and Nicole are up to on the never mind the music feed.
• 1:44:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: and we've reached our musical.
• 1:44:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you's moment.
• 1:44:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Some people told me a while ago that they liked when I used music for this so I keep doing it.
• 1:44:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: But let me know if you want me to stop or if you want me to continue.
• 1:44:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Jean's not here to ask me to call out the title of this one, but I'll do it anyway because it's in honor of Hamlet and honor of Anis.
• 1:44:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: it is magical forest.
• 1:45:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, thank you all for listening to this nonsense.
• 1:45:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for in all seriousness for your ears and for your engagement.
• 1:45:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know the drill.
• 1:45:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you enjoyed this and you can think of anyone else, you think would enjoy this.
• 1:45:15
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• 1:45:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you share this with them, leave a kind review wherever you're listening.
• 1:45:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just a special thank you as always to our Discord server boosters, Erin Kay, Tiller the Thriller, do71, Athena, Angelaya, Lestu, Nancy M. Ghost, a partition radio active Richard and Adrienne, and thank you to all of our subscribers.
• 1:45:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Especially to our highest tier, the Loremasters, Summarshan, Michael G, Michelle E, S.C. Peter O'H, Nancy M. Doov-71, Brian 863, Frederick H, Sarah L. Garth C, Andrew V. Kwong U. Nathan T, Sub-Zero, Aaron K. Dally V. Mothership 61, Nars?
• 1:45:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cathy W. Lestu, Jeffrey B. Alisa U. Ben V. Scott F. Stevenen, Julia F. Callie S. Umariel, Paul K. Rocky Zim, Jessica A. Redzipi, The TCS, Dope Emini, Ketchit, Eleanor, Mrs. Tenet AC Wilson, E. L. W. K. C. K. Chambaruni, Katia, Josh Lue, Pinton PDX, Cori G. Quinch, I know he's last, Adrienne.
• 1:46:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you also much, and reminder again, after the closing credits, there will be a spoiler discussion of sinners.
• 1:46:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: One battle after another, Hamnit, Marty Supreme, Bagonia, Train Dreams, Sentimental Value, and it was just an accident.
• 1:46:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stick around or be warned.
• 1:46:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Bye!
• 1:46:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Lower Hound's podcast is produced and published by the Lower Hounds.
• 1:46:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at the Lower Hound's.com slash contact.
• 1:46:53
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• 1:46:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.
• 1:47:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.
• 1:47:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, welcome to the full spoiler after party.
• 1:47:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So just fair warning, we are about to unleash full spoilers for films we've talked about.
• 1:47:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: That is again, sinners, one battle after another, hamnets, Marty Supreme, Fugonia, train dreams, sentimental value.
• 1:47:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was just an accident.
• 1:47:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, all right, yeah, it's hard to talk about the writing of these films without talking about the ending because they're so important to these films.
• 1:47:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: which film do you want to start with, which ending is standing out to you the most.
• 1:47:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good one, but go in.
• 1:47:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
• 1:47:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
• 1:47:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
• 1:47:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: we did you okay so the ending uh just in case if you want to be here and get spoiled but you haven't seen it yet um the ending the question is is she an alien and obviously it looks it's supposed to look like he's just a conspiracy theorist who is murdering people as it turns out but then it turns out yes she actually is an alien and she goes back to her planet and destroys
• 1:48:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: What did you think about this ending?
• 1:48:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, in the service of putting conspiracy theorists in their place, obviously, this was not a great look, but in terms of just making a really weird movie, I think this was a really successful ending.
• 1:48:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I'm going to spoil the ending of Save the Green Planet as well, which is pretty much the same.
• 1:48:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would say the one big difference is so the end of Bagoña at ends with like, they don't blow up the planet and save the green planet.
• 1:48:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: They blow up the planet.
• 1:48:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: You see like,
• 1:48:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: and then it goes to a montage, the two main characters, just like they're living their lives and it just leaves you with this.
• 1:49:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh my gosh, they led whole entire lives before everything went to hell.
• 1:49:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: There was beauty in that world that was destroyed.
• 1:49:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: And here, it's more like a gas of sorts that just kills all the humans, but not the animals or plants or anything like that.
• 1:49:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: So actually that one, it is more about saving the green planet because the planet will be greener without the humans mucking up everything.
• 1:49:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, but it was also a felt more.
• 1:49:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, like, in a way nihilistic because all of humanity's gone, but in another way, strangely hopeful because now the planet will survive better.
• 1:49:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it seemed like a little bit of an overreaction on the part of the aliens to just call their call their mission of failure and to be like, well, we tried, but
• 1:49:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I guess I've what I found interesting or picking out as this question is it doesn't take a moral stance but in a way that I find more interesting than say one battle where it's like yeah he's he was right, but at the same time he was also kidnapping and murdering people and you find like they're dismembered body parts and stuff in in this storage room and you know it's sort of like
• 1:50:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: He was still wrong somehow, but and also just because he did this thing to her that was the final straw that ended up condemning all of humanity like if he hadn't done this thing.
• 1:50:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then again, she was being an awful like she was an executive who was bringing out the worst in humanity with her role as a powerful woman.
• 1:50:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's so it is so complex.
• 1:50:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot to dig into there.
• 1:50:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but as a work of absurdity, it's still...
• 1:51:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: fun.
• 1:51:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's entertaining.
• 1:51:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's outrageous.
• 1:51:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's, uh, so I don't, I don't take the morality of it all too seriously.
• 1:51:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:51:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
• 1:51:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:51:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I agree.
• 1:51:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I agree.
• 1:51:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, and I would say I would recommend the South Korean film to you because it's even more absurdist.
• 1:51:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: But another thing that I found really, uh, shocking is the fact that Bugonia and it was just an accident have the same exact plot.
• 1:51:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I didn't ever thought about it, but you're right, you're right.
• 1:51:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: They do, but yet you liked Bagoña much more because of the absurdism?
• 1:51:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, because it had more emotions in there than, I mean, because at it's, you know, just in terms of the plot, these two guys kidnapped this woman, they, you know, kind of abuse her, there's like all sorts of like dark stuff, basically the same set that's happening in it was just an accident.
• 1:52:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Bagoña uses the language of sci-fi, of fantasy, of absurdity to hit those same notes.
• 1:52:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was just an accident, just looks at it head-on in a very hard way.
• 1:52:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, yeah, it was clear that I liked one movie and I did not, like yeah.
• 1:52:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: So what I thought was interesting with the ending of it was just an accident is so you learn that this guy who tortured all these people when they were political prisoners, he has a prosthetic leg that makes a distinctive squeak.
• 1:52:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so in the end, you know, I am a radical forgiveness, kind of person, and in the end they decide to let him go, you know, they, they're like, what do we do with him?
• 1:52:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: And ultimately they decide, let's let him go, let's move on with our own lives, but then you, in the last frames, one of the people is there and you hear that distinctive squeak.
• 1:53:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: which kind of implies he's back for his revenge and they should have finished the job if they wanted to survive.
• 1:53:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that I found a very unsettling ending, but one that I've been thinking about ever since.
• 1:53:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I agree, it was haunting.
• 1:53:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you have anything else you want to say about?
• 1:53:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Begonia, it was just an accident.
• 1:53:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, no, maybe just I like the idea that Bagonia kind of really kept us kept us going until the end, meaning they they kept pointing out like these really
• 1:53:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: absurd they are not pointing at these really absurd things but you know putting putting the characters into these really ridiculous situations like trying to convince that guy that if he put anifries in his mom's IV sac that would cure her and like watching him actually do it you know really go all in on his
• 1:54:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: on his delusion.
• 1:54:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, things like that, they really kept pushing the limit of where where is this guy's crudulity?
• 1:54:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, where is the line of his crudulity to just absorb this
• 1:54:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yeah, I think that it was just an accident has something more to say to really think about, but I think Bagoña is definitely the film I'd rather rewatch it's a much more fun time and it's an easier one, as you said, but earlier to recommend.
• 1:54:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:54:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, the other big one with the ending we needed to talk about was HamNet.
• 1:54:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: you you were surprised that I responded that I said it it makes your heart ache or you had it you respond to the ending of him that I mean not particularly not particularly emotionally meaning it it it it hit for me the same emotional notice the rest which is like this this kind of
• 1:55:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: never ending suffering.
• 1:55:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, finally, finally, when we're watching this play of Hamlet, we get some sense that maybe this idiot Shakespeare has some depth to him because before then, we haven't seen him demonstrate any depth or even intelligence so far.
• 1:55:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, I do think that in that we finally get some sense that there's something more going on
• 1:55:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: between the years with that guy, but I'm curious what you felt like gave you that feeling?
• 1:55:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so it is a very sad film, obviously.
• 1:56:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I knew that going in.
• 1:56:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd expected that.
• 1:56:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: And as I said, it's the sadness started later than I thought.
• 1:56:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: But it was at some point, you know, by the end, I was kind of...
• 1:56:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I was getting a little annoyed with her, like that she was, well, it was very much, it was a film about how a mother deals with her grief and her frustration that her husband seems to just be running away from it or ignoring it or leaving her alone in it, but she's also at the same time.
• 1:56:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: pushing him in everyone else away because she's like no one gets to share my grief.
• 1:56:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is my grief, but also why aren't you feeling it?
• 1:56:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so what this film suggests is that his way of coping with it was to write the play Hamlet.
• 1:56:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then so you see this scene playing out from Hamlet, and which you point out that so HamNet, the little boy, is played by Jacobi Jube.
• 1:56:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Hamlet, the actor in the stage, just played by his real-life brother, Nojup.
• 1:57:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: So they intentionally look alike.
• 1:57:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was kind of a fortuitous casting, but then they were like, oh, that's great.
• 1:57:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go with that.
• 1:57:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's lean into it.
• 1:57:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So they do look alike for a reason.
• 1:57:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you see her first experience in a theater.
• 1:57:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she just knew what to do with the crowd.
• 1:57:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was kind of annoyed with her.
• 1:57:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then, but it made sense too, because she's just a, you know, a forest bumpkin like she doesn't know anything about that the eater and how you supposed to.
• 1:57:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:57:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:57:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then, um, and then you see, you know, she's been struggling like why doesn't her husband share her grief that she's not letting him share.
• 1:57:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then as this play plays out, she realizes like,
• 1:57:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, this is him coping with his grief and this play that she was kind of annoyed with him, you know, going off to do is actually honoring their son.
• 1:58:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, it's it's kind of cheesy, but just like,
• 1:58:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: the way the entire audience reached out toward Hamlet, as he died on stage, just all of the faces of, especially the women in the crowd, and you think, especially in that time, how many of them also lost sons, and how many of them are, I'm getting a little emotional, just talking about this, how many of them are watching this play out, and
• 1:58:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: and taking some solace for themselves and it too, and then being, you know, just that he lived, he lived, we remember him, he lived well, we honor him, and just that most, everyone reaching toward the stage just made me think about,
• 1:58:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: in the music swells obviously, you know, they got me at that score, um, we talked about in score episode, but they just, this fact that we are all, we are humans so separate from each other in our grief, but in the, at the end of the day, most of us do understand grief.
• 1:59:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have experienced grief by a certain point in our lives.
• 1:59:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so it is one of the things that should connect us the most.
• 1:59:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this finale was a moment of recognizing that.
• 1:59:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's why, for me, it was so powerful.
• 1:59:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:59:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:59:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: For me, it was so much about what, because that scene is about watching her process, not only what she's seeing, but also through the lens of
• 1:59:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: what she thinks her husband thinks about all this, right?
• 1:59:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's like that all those layers going on at the same time as we're watching the play.
• 1:59:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I found myself really unsure what it was she thought her husband was thinking or feeling about their son through Hamlet.
• 2:00:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: To me, that wasn't obvious, because it is a tangential overlay with what happens to try to apply the death of ham net to the events of hamlet.
• 2:00:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I don't know, I understand through the actresses' performance that there was some
• 2:00:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: idea that maybe she was seeing her son as a grown man, but, but why, like, what, um, just if I try to put myself in that, like, in the plot of Hamlet and in the story of Hamlet, like, what was it that she was connecting?
• 2:01:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just the grief, the, the, the idea of grief,
• 2:01:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yeah, I suppose this is something you might like better from the book because I do think this is a central thesis of the book and they lay it out in, you know, the text on screen at the beginning like hamlet and hamlets had an almost same, you know, the spelling were interchangeable right right and and so I suppose that her central
• 2:01:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: thesis for her is that William Shakespeare wrote this play as a response and then she's trying to, so we saw some teases in the film at the end about what sort of connections he might be making.
• 2:01:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I've been doing some deep dives into like by deep dives.
• 2:01:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I've been like watching some adaptations of a hamlet lace lately for various reasons.
• 2:01:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's a bit of a stretch.
• 2:02:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: if we are looking at the reality of the history, um, but I really love the idea and I feel like the film at least does a great job of pausing that where just based on the film alone, I would be like, oh, I can believe that.
• 2:02:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:02:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 2:02:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm happy to suspend that aspect of disbelief on my part, just for what I feel is the emotional payoff of the film.
• 2:02:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:02:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I must say that one of my personal pet peeves is watching TV or movie or whatever, a scene where characters whisper to one another, and so we the audience can hear them because it's recorded, but it is so obvious that nobody else would be able to hear them.
• 2:02:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, okay,
• 2:02:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: whispering and it's like nobody would hear you project you're in a theater.
• 2:03:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It I immediately lose my connection with the fiction because it's like you can't do that.
• 2:03:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not in a movie.
• 2:03:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Stop acting like you're in a movie.
• 2:03:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's fair.
• 2:03:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's fair.
• 2:03:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 2:03:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 2:03:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: There was some dramatic license taken there for sure.
• 2:03:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think though for me the most rewarding ending though as I teased is sinners that sort of mid-credit thing where we get the jump forward in time and now so Sammy has grown into buddy guy and he's lived an entire life as a blues musician.
• 2:03:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everything he always wanted and then
• 2:03:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: the one other survivor or the two other survivors of that night's stack and Mary show up and there's still vampires.
• 2:03:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And wearing their like 90s sweaters and stuff, still 90s fashion moment.
• 2:03:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, he says like, you know, my brother, the one thing he requested is that I leave you alone and let you live your life.
• 2:04:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so I've done that, but now I know your life
• 2:04:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: do you want me to turn you?"
• 2:04:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And he says, no, he says, I think I've lived a good life and I think I'm, you know, I'm just about done with it and I'm okay with that.
• 2:04:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then as stack a barrier walking out the door, he says, you know, one last thing, he says, I wake up with nightmares still all the time, all these decades later about the events of that night,
• 2:04:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: that first half of the movie, that might have been the best day of my life and then the music goes, they get me with the music all the time.
• 2:04:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and that for me, like it was a film that I was already really into, but for me, that's what really solidifies the writing aspect of that film.
• 2:05:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
• 2:05:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:05:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't find that last scene so meaningful because I was too caught up honestly in the idea of wait a minute, he's alive.
• 2:05:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: So wait, the two brothers were fighting and then like mid-fight, the guys like, I'm about to kill you, but tell you what, I'll let you live if you leave that guy alone.
• 2:05:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the two of them managed to get away before dawn hits when it was like that was just before dawn.
• 2:05:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: and he found that girl and they both managed to get away when all the other vampires burned.
• 2:05:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was a little bit of a wait a second.
• 2:05:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, how did this happen?
• 2:05:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: So they weren't there in the final scene.
• 2:05:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: So they got away, but they weren't there gathering around watching them watching Remi go after.
• 2:05:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Smoke and Sammy, they were already gone, so they had plenty of head start to get away from there.
• 2:06:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: What I find more unbelievable is that the other vampire stuck around.
• 2:06:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I guess it's because of the hive mind thing and for some reason maybe because because of his connection to his brother and because his brother is like, you know what, I don't want to kill you, I don't want you to kill me, just get out of here.
• 2:06:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: that's maybe that gave him a bit more independent thinking in order to be like grab Mary and go.
• 2:06:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like that part didn't bother me.
• 2:06:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was more like, why are the others hanging out there?
• 2:06:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like the sun's coming up.
• 2:06:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Get inside.
• 2:06:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: What are you doing?
• 2:06:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the thing is I was fully on board for the hive mind thing, but then it didn't make sense that Wait, shouldn't he know that those other people slipped away if they did and like where I were they able to like why was he able to pull that girl out of her spell?
• 2:06:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I just it just didn't quite add up except to like kind of
• 2:06:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, see, I definitely didn't have that problem at all.
• 2:06:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think that that is a problem personally, but I think it is interesting also like when we look at smoke, the other brother, that he is, it looks like he was the survivor, but ultimately he is not the survivor because he decides to lie and wait to fight the KKK, which they don't know.
• 2:07:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't necessarily need to do, you know, in terms of because the juke joins over, obviously, but he needs to do it for himself.
• 2:07:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: And what I was really struck by when I watched this with my mom is that, you know, at the end,
• 2:07:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: it comes down to forgiveness again where he's taken out everyone else and there's like the KKK leader on the ground and smokes dying and he's starting to see visions of Annie and their child and you know there's the question of like should he just be like let bygones be good bygones and go reunite and my mom's like no kill it!
• 2:07:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, this is, yeah, it shows this offers even to, you know, a white woman.
• 2:08:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's some catharsis and like, get the cake, cake guy that's even, like, even though, okay, here's my question for you.
• 2:08:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Would you want to join that particular brand of vampires
• 2:08:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a hive minder, I mean, if I could, if I could try it with a guarantee that I could get out, like I'm curious what that experience would be like, just as a, as a,
• 2:08:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: separate human being.
• 2:08:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious with that experience would be like, but I mean, it's a little bit boring in this, it's like you can't undo that.
• 2:08:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Picard got out, but I kind of feel like once you're part of a high mind, you don't exist.
• 2:08:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it certainly seemed like it wasn't a pure
• 2:09:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that is the question that we were, when we were talking about this film and our breakdown, that's a question that especially came up is like, how much is Remic in control of the others?
• 2:09:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: That, yeah, that is an excellent question.
• 2:09:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's interesting to contrast with Plurvis was a TV show this year that also had a hive mind mentality.
• 2:09:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there, the people were,
• 2:09:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: just overly peaceful.
• 2:09:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, just like we won't, we won't even kill a plant even though we're going to die if we don't eat.
• 2:09:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, but for some reason, it does feel like in that version, they lose their individuality completely, whereas it feels like in this version, they still have some individuality, but also are lending it out.
• 2:10:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like they still remember, I don't know.
• 2:10:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I am more attracted to the center's hive than I am to say the plural of a hive.
• 2:10:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And definitely not the book.
• 2:10:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to check for the record.
• 2:10:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just in case there's any high vampires out there, let's me.
• 2:10:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, are there any other endings from these films that you wanted to discuss?
• 2:10:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe just sentimental value because I found the end scene where the daughter is acting out the scene that we've heard described earlier in the movie and we can really see the way she can embody the depression that the other actress just couldn't quite embody.
• 2:10:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we can see this action that is, you know, the father, it's based on the father's life, but he keeps saying that's not based on, it's not based on my mother.
• 2:11:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the way we see that acted out and the fact that his daughter is doing it after she previously didn't want to do it, it feels so healing, so
• 2:11:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: like such a space for both of them to connect with each other with his memory of his mother and his sorrow, his heart, his unresolved hurt from the way he grew up.
• 2:11:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: It felt so healing and
• 2:11:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yum!
• 2:11:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I agree.
• 2:11:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: I agree that it's a film that's more subtle and it's arc, but very rich and rewarding in that regard.
• 2:12:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: In terms of, I mean, I think that it's getting a lot of love from Hollywood because it's about a filmmaker.
• 2:12:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, totally.
• 2:12:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's also just, I think it's easy
• 2:12:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for me, it's, again, it's the Nora character.
• 2:12:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: The, in it's Dr. Lily, it's character who I just keep thinking about her, how she was a child actor for in her father's film.
• 2:12:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that, and I know, obviously, that's not her in the flashback.
• 2:12:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: It goes to that child actor whose name I do not have at hand.
• 2:12:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're just like that phenomenal performance.
• 2:12:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: The fact that the movie can just take a minute and I talk about it in the tech awards episode more about the editing choices in that moment where they actually, the editor cut back on it because he's like we can't stay away from Agnes that long.
• 2:13:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, just knowing that she had this incredible talent like that as a kid and played this role in the seminal film, and then she's the one who did not grow up to become an actor like her sister, her sister takes more after her father.
• 2:13:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so she's been kind of not discarded, but just kind of um, it feels like she's a bit of an afterthought in the family, but also the one who's holding them together.
• 2:13:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought the dynamics there were so wonderfully portrayed for that reason because it felt really like full dynamics.
• 2:13:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: You could see each of the relationships, what was, what was between each of them.
• 2:13:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it felt really strong.
• 2:13:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 2:13:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I thought that that was really beautiful.
• 2:13:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: And just like the little moments there, like I think of one moment when Agnes comes over and they're like packing stuff up in the house and stuff and there's a vase that Nora has set aside for herself and Agnes takes it because Nora wanted it basically.
• 2:14:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Agnes just doesn't, I mean, sort of Nora just is just like, yeah, whatever part of the course, you know?
• 2:14:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and the little moments like that I think are where sentimental value really shines.
• 2:14:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's not a showy film, but it's a expertly crafted one.
• 2:14:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
• 2:14:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 2:14:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Would you, okay, so we'll talk about one battle.
• 2:14:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would did you think about the revelation of that Leonardo DiCaprio's character was not the biological father, and actually the racist was.
• 2:14:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they set that up from the beginning, right?
• 2:14:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, I have the beginning, but like, they set that up.
• 2:14:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not like it came as a big surprise, because that obviously, that revelation is like the one that introduces the most conflict.
• 2:15:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a conflict for the, for the sort of kernel lock jaw.
• 2:15:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a conflict for the father and the daughter.
• 2:15:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it's just,
• 2:15:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that it feels like, well, it has to be his because for the story that adds the most conflict.
• 2:15:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
• 2:15:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Another one of these kind of things that's a bit checkboxy for me, where it's been, you know, if you want to reverse engineer a story, it's but like,
• 2:15:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you choose that because it adds the most conflict, not necessarily that it, feel how it should be that way.
• 2:15:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:15:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I thought there was something nice about it in the sense that like, I always think of, quote, I saw or something that's like, any man can be a father, but to take something special to be a dad.
• 2:15:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: And at the end of the day, obviously, it's horrifying, I think, if you find out that your biological father is, you know, fascist, who...
• 2:16:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, with a kink for your mother, um, yeah, versus the man who raised her and loved her her entire life.
• 2:16:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, and she obviously she chooses that father.
• 2:16:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's that's her real dad.
• 2:16:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously.
• 2:16:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: No question.
• 2:16:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would say from any perspective, but I liked that that's why I think this movie is better as a daddy daughter's story than it is.
• 2:16:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Is there any political discussion?
• 2:16:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 2:16:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, a lot of parent children stuff like train dreams that goes on this whole journey with his daughter who disappears and this is apparently from the book where they change it slightly for it, but she
• 2:16:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: he finds like a kind of wild girl and helps her like with set a broken leg and then she just disappears out the window and he never sees her again.
• 2:16:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, oh, come on, give this man a break.
• 2:17:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's mainly problem with tree and dreams.
• 2:17:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, let him have something.
• 2:17:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, he needs Carrie Condon.
• 2:17:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then like, oh, maybe they'll at least get together.
• 2:17:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Nope.
• 2:17:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Nope, no.
• 2:17:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I love that it ends with, you know, just in terms of, as I said, I think the film for me is maybe it is most successful in tracing this development of this part of America, you know, and then you see he goes into town and sees the moon landing and just that how that must have blown his mind because you see where he came from.
• 2:17:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: 80 years before that, and just thinking about what that generation lives through, especially, like we all live through change in our lives, but that feels like a period of intense change.
• 2:17:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, probably by the time we're that age, and if we look back at the the developments of our lifetimes, they are likewise staggering.
• 2:18:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean,
• 2:18:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: internet, sport devices, and AI, and now we're just middle aged, right.
• 2:18:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: But in the regard of, this is where Marty Supreme is slightly more hopeful, because in this one, he gets to have the kid at the end, and it makes him realize.
• 2:18:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: everything else that he's been engaged with is kind of bullshit.
• 2:18:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: And he got his his win at the, you know, he didn't get to enter the Japanese, or he's sorry, the international ping pong world finals, whatever in Japan, but he got to, he got to make have a meaningful unofficial win on camera.
• 2:18:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he got that win and then his real win
• 2:18:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I hear what you're saying.
• 2:18:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't quite read it with the same amount of victory in the sense that he's still a piece of shit.
• 2:19:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't think that just because he cries over the birth of his kid that he's suddenly developed
• 2:19:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: into a good person, I mean, because we even see like he walks straight past his mom and like, hey, you know, like he's still a total piece of shit.
• 2:19:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm not, you know, I'm glad that he got this little dose of humanity that makes him feel like to to acknowledge the kid as his where he previously wasn't even doing that.
• 2:19:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: But no, I'm under no illusion.
• 2:19:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like he's still going to be a real monster.
• 2:19:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, that's fair.
• 2:19:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's fair.
• 2:19:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Speaking of monsters.
• 2:19:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And he thought about Frankenstein or Blue Moon.
• 2:19:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I kind of already hinted at the Frankenstein ending.
• 2:20:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's hard.
• 2:20:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, come on, everyone knows Frankenstein.
• 2:20:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no additional thoughts.
• 2:20:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's fair.
• 2:20:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's fair.
• 2:20:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: What would you say is your of these 10 movies?
• 2:20:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: What is your favorite ending overall?
• 2:20:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Or a couple of favorite endings?
• 2:20:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Send them in a value for the reasons that I already described.
• 2:20:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Bogonia, I mean both because it
• 2:20:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: My two favorite endings to sinners and hamn it with an honorable mention for it was just an accident because it stuck in my brain.
• 2:20:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
• 2:20:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you.
• 2:20:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm glad we did this post script and I'm sure that there are people who have watched the movies are grateful for it because, yeah, it's been a lot of scurting around what actually is it about.
• 2:21:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you haven't seen these movies yet, watch them.
• 2:21:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 2:21:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
• 2:21:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much, Catherine.
• 2:21:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks.