Latest / CIAM Radio / Building Relationships - How to Love Year One of Marriage | Mike Novotny

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Building Relationships - How to Love Year One of Marriage | Mike Novotny · CIAM Radio

0:00
S1: Like, shake yourself of that deception of thinking this was
0:04
S1: a mistake. God brought you together. He's going to help
0:06
S1: you through it. So if you need help, ask for it.
0:08
S1: If there's something you need to address, do it. Don't
0:11
S1: just sit there in the deception and let it pull
0:13
S1: you to a point.
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S2: Welcome to Building Relationships with actor Gary Chapman, New York
0:22
S2: Times best selling author of The Five Love Languages. Today
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S2: you make so many preparations for I do, but what
0:29
S2: happens that first year after the ceremony is over, pastor
0:33
S2: and author Mike Novotny has encouragement for those just married
0:36
S2: or those planning a wedding, and everyone who loves that couple.
0:41
S2: His book is our featured resource at Building relationships.us titled
0:45
S2: Newlywed A Christian Guide for Loving Year one. Just go
0:50
S2: to Building relationships.us. And Gary, this has been one of
0:54
S2: the notes that you've been playing in your song over
0:56
S2: and over. You have to be intentional about that first
1:00
S2: year of marriage.
1:02
S3: Absolutely, Chris. And I think so many couples go into
1:05
S3: that first year of marriage thinking it's going to be
1:07
S3: heaven because they're so in love. You know, I remember
1:13
S3: that's the way I felt. And, uh, but there's so
1:17
S3: many things that you have to adjust to in a marriage.
1:21
S3: And this book is going to help a lot of people.
1:24
S3: In fact, I was just in thinking through it. I
1:26
S3: thought every pastor ought to have these books on the shelf.
1:30
S3: And when a couple gets married, you ought to give
1:32
S3: them one. You know, and it's, it's I'm excited about
1:36
S3: this book and our discussion today.
1:38
S2: Well, let's meet our guest. Mike Novotny is pastor at
1:41
S2: the core in Appleton, Wisconsin. He's also lead speaker for
1:45
S2: the media ministry. Time of Grace. He and his wife, Kim,
1:49
S2: have two daughters. Mike has written a number of thought
1:52
S2: provoking books, including Three Words that Will Change Your Life.
1:56
S2: What's big starts small, and his latest is our featured
2:00
S2: resource at Building relationships.us. Newlywed A Christian Guide for Loving
2:05
S2: Year one again. Find out more at Building relationships.us.
2:09
S3: Well, Mike, welcome to Building Relationships.
2:12
S1: Uh, Doctor Chapman, it is so great to be here.
2:14
S1: Thanks for having me.
2:15
S3: So tell me about how you and Kim met and
2:18
S3: how the two of you. And you knew that you
2:20
S3: wanted to take the next step into marriage. Give it
2:23
S3: a little bit of your history there.
2:25
S1: Oh, yeah. So when I was growing up, girls really
2:29
S1: scared me. Uh, in fact, they they scared me so
2:32
S1: much that I didn't talk to many girls when I
2:34
S1: was a freshman in high school, and then a sophomore
2:37
S1: and then a junior, uh, for my senior prom. How
2:40
S1: about this? Instead of going to a dance with a girl,
2:42
S1: I watched Star Wars with my friend Tim. So I was,
2:48
S1: I was, uh, relationally challenged. Never mind the love languages. I,
2:52
S1: I didn't have any words to speak to any girls,
2:54
S1: but then I go to college, I go to this
2:55
S1: little Bible college in Minnesota and at the freshman mixer,
2:59
S1: I see these two cute girls on the other side
3:01
S1: of the field as I'm walking across it, and I
3:04
S1: honestly thought both of them were attractive. I thought, hey,
3:06
S1: new chapter of life, I'm going to talk to a girl.
3:09
S1: And literally as I'm walking up, this guy comes swooping
3:12
S1: in from the left, starts talking to the girl on
3:14
S1: my left. And so I veered right and actually veered
3:17
S1: right into the arms of my future wife. So I
3:20
S1: don't know if God works in mysterious ways, but that's
3:22
S1: where we met at the freshman mixer in the 1900s, 1999,
3:26
S1: and now we've been married for 23 years. My first
3:28
S1: ever girlfriend became my first and only wife.
3:31
S3: Wow. That's wonderful that that doesn't always happen.
3:37
S1: Yeah, this is true.
3:38
S3: Did you two spend more time, uh, like I did,
3:42
S3: planning your wedding than you did preparing for the marriage?
3:47
S1: Oh my goodness, for sure. We had a little bit
3:49
S1: of premarital counseling at the Bible college we went to.
3:52
S1: I have a hunch, though, the premarital counseling was a
3:55
S1: touch like my first two years of seminary, where I
3:59
S1: kind of assumed I was going to be a good pastor. Yeah,
4:03
S1: I had to take the classes. But, you know, I
4:04
S1: love Jesus. I knew the Bible pretty well. I cared
4:07
S1: about people. Everything's going to be fine, right? And then,
4:10
S1: and then it took just one year of a pastoral
4:12
S1: internship before the panic button went off. And I thought,
4:14
S1: oh my goodness, I don't know anything about anything. So yeah,
4:18
S1: I mean, I'm sure Kim and I were super naive
4:21
S1: and just thought, if we love God and we love
4:23
S1: each other, it's going to be great. Yeah. And some
4:26
S1: of it was, but we found out there were a
4:27
S1: lot more roadblocks and challenges that we hadn't even anticipated.
4:31
S3: Yeah. You know, my wife and I had the similar thing.
4:36
S3: I don't even remember hearing the word preparation for marriage,
4:39
S3: you know, or premarital counseling. I don't I don't ever
4:42
S3: remember that. And we had one hour with the pastor
4:46
S3: who married us and almost all that was just talking
4:49
S3: about the wedding, you know, and so, so, and I
4:53
S3: found that's been true of a lot, a lot of couples.
4:55
S3: So why do you think we spend so much energy
4:58
S3: on the wedding and not on preparation for the marriage
5:03
S3: that follows the wedding?
5:05
S1: Yeah. You know, I don't want to be too negative
5:07
S1: or pessimistic, but here's my answer. I think most people
5:12
S1: getting married don't actually believe the third page of the Bible.
5:17
S1: I don't think they really deeply believe that the fall
5:20
S1: into sin is so catastrophically affected, the human heart that
5:25
S1: to actually love selflessly another human being, not for an
5:30
S1: hour or two or a week or two, but for
5:32
S1: decades upon decades that you would need so much help
5:35
S1: you would need. So you would need to read the
5:37
S1: five Love languages cover to cover backwards in four different languages.
5:41
S1: You're going to need a village of people you're going
5:43
S1: to need like counseling books. Like you're going to need
5:45
S1: so many resources to do it well. And, and you're
5:48
S1: naive and arrogant to think I got this. I can
5:51
S1: love this. I can keep these vows on my own.
5:53
S1: And I think because of that, we pour 90% of
5:56
S1: our energy into the flowers. The guest list for the day,
6:00
S1: the dresses, the tuxedos, the DJ. And we really don't
6:04
S1: like resource ourselves for the bigger and more important battle,
6:07
S1: which is to love our spouse like Christ first loved
6:09
S1: his church.
6:10
S3: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you've been married for more than 20 years,
6:15
S3: as you noted earlier. So what surprised you most about
6:18
S3: what marriage actually requires?
6:22
S4: Mhm.
6:22
S3: Yeah.
6:22
S1: I like the inflection of your voice there, actually. Yeah. Kim.
6:28
S1: Kim and I have this little rhyme that has explained
6:32
S1: every great season of our marriage and every hard season
6:36
S1: of our marriage. And the rhyme is this. Me first
6:40
S1: makes a mess. But you first makes us blessed. Mhm.
6:46
S1: What does marriage actually require? Every time I get stuck
6:48
S1: on me. What does Mike want? What does Mike think?
6:51
S1: Why is Mike's opinion the better opinion? It it it
6:56
S1: never works. I've never sat down with Kim and said,
6:58
S1: just let me let me change you so you can
7:00
S1: be like me because I'm right and you're wrong. Pride
7:03
S1: begets pride and a selfish person ends up fighting with
7:07
S1: another selfish person. But. But you first. What does marriage
7:10
S1: actually require? When I'm selfless, when I'm the first to
7:13
S1: own my part, when I, by the grace of God,
7:16
S1: stay humble. When I can apologize for not speaking her
7:20
S1: love language or serving her well. Um, man, when I'm
7:23
S1: thinking primarily of Kim, uh, it just has a way
7:27
S1: of coming back. It's I don't want to call it
7:29
S1: relational karma, but there's something about the law of the
7:31
S1: harvest in marriages that you reap what you sow. And
7:36
S1: I've never, as a pastor, had to counsel two deeply
7:38
S1: humble people. Um, no one shows up at the pastor's
7:42
S1: office and says, well, she's humble. And the wife says, yeah,
7:45
S1: and he's humble, but we're having all these problems. Like, no,
7:49
S1: there's just something about humility. God. God gives grace to
7:51
S1: the humble, but he opposes the proud. So what does
7:53
S1: marriage require? I think it's it's to humble people.
7:56
S4: Yeah.
7:56
S3: You know, you know, that reminds me of the newest
8:00
S3: book that I released back in January with Less and
8:03
S3: Leslie Perry. It's called The Most Important Love Language because
8:06
S3: people pick it up and say, oh, I wonder which
8:08
S3: one it is. I wonder which one it is. And
8:10
S3: in the first paragraph we say the most important love
8:13
S3: language is the love language of your partner.
8:18
S4: Yes. Yes.
8:19
S3: Because by nature, you know, people have read my book
8:21
S3: and they get the love language. And then three months
8:24
S3: later they're saying, now listen, you know my love language
8:26
S3: and if you love me, you would be giving my love.
8:29
S4: Yes.
8:30
S1: That is, it can become a weapon. Yeah.
8:32
S4: Yeah.
8:33
S3: That's right. We're self-centered. Yeah. So what is the single
8:37
S3: most dangerous thing that couples can bring into marriage? And
8:42
S3: then how do you how do you deal with it?
8:45
S1: Yeah. So before I wrote this book, I did two
8:47
S1: things Because I'd been married for about two decades, I
8:50
S1: wanted to sit down with people who are brand, brand
8:52
S1: new into marriage. So I took out ten newlywed couples
8:55
S1: from our church. Just couple by couple, coffee by coffee,
8:59
S1: and I probed them with this question. Um, the question was,
9:02
S1: what did you think marriage was going to be like?
9:05
S1: And then what was it actually like?
9:07
S4: Mhm.
9:08
S1: And I tried to take their answers and like the
9:10
S1: gap between expectations and reality kind of turned into the
9:13
S1: chapters about faith or communication or sex or chores or
9:17
S1: screens or date nights. Um, but the second thing I did,
9:20
S1: and this is my answer to your question, is I
9:22
S1: interviewed some professional Christian counselors. One of them named Theresa
9:26
S1: goes to our church and she had the best quote.
9:28
S1: She said, Mike, um, every married couple has two problems.
9:33
S1: Number one, they have expectations they haven't expressed to their spouse.
9:39
S1: Number two, they're 99% sure those expectations are correct. So,
9:45
S1: so I haven't told you, you know how many times
9:47
S1: I expect to be intimate or how I expect to
9:51
S1: spend time with my family versus your family during Christmas?
9:55
S1: I haven't told you what I expect when it comes to, like,
9:58
S1: when can I pull up my phone? How much time
9:59
S1: can I be on it? How clean does the house
10:02
S1: have to be? How often are we just going to
10:04
S1: hang out? Me and you versus with your parents or
10:07
S1: with our friends? We have this, like, long list of expectations.
10:10
S1: Often they're not like biblically, right or wrong, good and evil,
10:14
S1: but we bring like 100 expectations into a relationship. We
10:18
S1: haven't expressed them yet, and we're pretty sure they're like
10:20
S1: the right answer at the end of the day. And
10:22
S1: when our spouse doesn't do that or doesn't expect the
10:24
S1: same things, that gap, I think, is what leads to
10:26
S1: so much miscommunication, so much fights and so much distance.
10:30
S1: So that's why I really wrote this book as a
10:32
S1: way of seeking together with good communication and lots of faith,
10:35
S1: mutually agreed upon expectations.
10:38
S3: Boy, I think that's so powerful. And I think that's
10:41
S3: why I mentioned I said earlier, I think this book
10:43
S3: is going to help so many couples because it's just
10:45
S3: it's just so practical. You write, and I'm quoting here
10:49
S3: that mutually agreed upon expectations are everything. End of quote.
10:55
S3: What does that look like in real life?
10:59
S1: Uh, Doctor Chapman, God taught me this lesson easily the
11:03
S1: first year of my marriage, if not the first month.
11:06
S1: Kim and I get married in 2003. We get this
11:08
S1: little apartment outside of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and she makes this
11:11
S1: amazing meal. I can still picture the little round table
11:14
S1: in our small kitchen. We're probably paying 300 bucks a
11:17
S1: month for rent and she makes this amazing meal. I
11:21
S1: enjoy every bit of it. I try to compliment her
11:23
S1: and use my words. And then after I'm done, I
11:25
S1: take my dishes and I walk them over across this
11:28
S1: really small kitchen, and I set them down next to
11:30
S1: the sink, and I start walking to the living room
11:34
S1: and Kim says to me, what are you doing? And
11:38
S1: based on the tone of her voice, I realized this
11:39
S1: was not a question. This was this was.
11:41
S4: About to get escalated.
11:42
S1: And I said, uh, I'm going to I'm gonna watch TV.
11:45
S1: I'm gonna relax. And she said, well, why did you
11:47
S1: put your dishes there? And I said, because I was
11:50
S1: trying to be a good husband. Here's what I didn't realize. Um,
11:54
S1: I grew up in a home. My dad was in
11:56
S1: the banking world, in real estate. My mom stayed at home.
12:00
S1: My mom would both prepare the meals and clean up
12:03
S1: after the meals were over.
12:04
S4: Mhm.
12:04
S1: And what I grew up seeing for decades was that
12:08
S1: my dad enjoyed the meals. Hopefully he said thank you
12:10
S1: for the meals. And then he didn't even take the
12:13
S1: dishes out. My mom did that, so I thought I
12:15
S1: thought I was going above and beyond. I was waiting
12:17
S1: for him to just applaud me like, thank you Jesus,
12:20
S1: that I married this amazingly kind man. Uh, but I
12:23
S1: found out, uh, Kim brought a different expectation into the relationship. Um,
12:27
S1: she grew up with two working parents, and her parents
12:29
S1: rule was whoever cooks doesn't clean up for a single second.
12:34
S1: So if I made the meal and put in the work,
12:36
S1: now I get to relax and you get to do
12:38
S1: the work and you get to wash the dishes, put
12:39
S1: them in the dishwasher, so on and so forth. So
12:42
S1: you know what happened. Why did we end up with
12:43
S1: this tense fight? It's because we both brought an expectation
12:46
S1: which was neither right or wrong. There's no Bible passages
12:49
S1: about what to do with dishes, but we hadn't expressed it.
12:51
S1: We hadn't talked it through. We hadn't come up with
12:54
S1: an agreed upon version for our situation. So that that's
12:57
S1: so much of what it is like. Have I, have
12:59
S1: I told you what I think? Have I shared how
13:01
S1: I grew up, what I expect? Have I asked the
13:04
S1: right questions so I can learn about your heart and
13:06
S1: experiences so that we can have like the same play
13:10
S1: that we're both trying to run in this specific situation.
13:13
S3: Yeah, boy. I think couples can identify with that who
13:17
S3: have been married a while. You know, I remember I
13:21
S3: told my wife, you know, how nice she looked and
13:23
S3: all these things and give her positive words. And one
13:27
S3: night she said, you keep on saying I love you.
13:30
S3: If you love me, why don't you help me? I said,
13:33
S3: what do you mean? She said, well, you don't ever
13:35
S3: offer to wash the dishes or vacuum the floors or
13:38
S3: clean the toilets or anything. And I didn't say this, Mike,
13:42
S3: but what I was thinking was, what are you talking about?
13:45
S3: My mother did those things. Just exactly what you were saying,
13:50
S3: you know? And your your relationship. We have different, different patterns. Yeah.
13:55
S3: This is this is so good. Now let's go to
13:57
S3: another topic. The sex and intimacy part of marriage. You
14:01
S3: open up in the book about your own struggles with
14:04
S3: sex and intimacy. So talk more about that and why
14:08
S3: you decided to be vulnerable and open. You know about
14:12
S3: that struggle.
14:13
S1: Yeah. Thanks for asking. If there's one thing that Kim
14:16
S1: and I struggled with throughout our marriage for not just
14:20
S1: a few weeks, but years, if not a decade plus,
14:23
S1: it was figuring out sex. I think a lot of
14:25
S1: it was my fault. Unfortunately, because of my own lack
14:28
S1: of self-control and sinfulness, I brought over ten years worth
14:32
S1: of pornography addiction into our marriage, and I'm super grateful
14:37
S1: that Jesus forgave me. Um, and if we weren't saved
14:40
S1: by grace and through faith, I would be. I'd be
14:42
S1: cooked as the kids say I would. I would be
14:44
S1: in such trouble. But God is merciful and he's good.
14:48
S1: And because of Jesus, I'm not condemned. But there was
14:50
S1: a consequence and the consequence I didn't realize when I
14:54
S1: said I do to Kim was that pornography had given
14:58
S1: me the expectation that sex should be easy, you know,
15:01
S1: in pornography. And I hope people listening don't know this,
15:04
S1: but sex is always easy in pornography. He looks at her.
15:07
S1: She looks at him. They're both ready to have sex.
15:10
S1: They both have a good time. There's no difficulty. There's
15:12
S1: no patience required or self-control. There's no cramps or headaches
15:17
S1: or crazy kids or long days at work or arguments
15:22
S1: you have before you crawl like there's there's none of that.
15:24
S1: It would it would take too long. And so I
15:26
S1: think what happened was, after seeing so much of that
15:28
S1: for so many years, I thought, you know, I don't
15:32
S1: want him to do anything crazy. That wasn't what pornography
15:34
S1: did to me. But when sex was actually like, sex
15:38
S1: actually is beautiful and difficult. Sometimes you hit a home run,
15:42
S1: sometimes you strike out, sometimes you barely make it to second.
15:46
S1: You know, sometimes it was great and sometimes it just happens.
15:48
S1: And I thought that we were broken or that something
15:52
S1: was wrong with her or with me or with us.
15:56
S1: I can remember the man. I feel so dumb saying this,
15:58
S1: but there's times like I'd start kissing Kim and she
16:00
S1: just wasn't like, didn't seem as excited as I was
16:03
S1: in the moment. And I would just, like, stop. And
16:05
S1: I'd look her in the eye and I'd ask, are
16:06
S1: you okay?
16:09
S4: Which right?
16:10
S1: Write this down. If you're listening at home, that is
16:13
S1: the least sexy question you could ever.
16:14
S4: Ask somebody in the.
16:17
S1: Moment. So, you know, and what I found out was
16:20
S1: actually Kim and I were very normal that often when
16:23
S1: two people enter a relationship, they have different desires. You know,
16:26
S1: think of the love languages. I should tell you this.
16:29
S1: When we first took the five Love Languages test, I
16:31
S1: scored physical touch by like, I forget what the number was.
16:36
S1: It was off the charts for me. Kim took the
16:38
S1: test and physical touch wasn't even on her list. And I.
16:41
S4: Thought, oh.
16:42
S1: Something is wrong with the report. And then I realized.
16:44
S4: She.
16:44
S1: Scored a zero. She had her.
16:47
S4: Her.
16:48
S1: Her answers were zero. So we. We were just a
16:50
S1: classic couple where we had different desires, different preferences. We
16:53
S1: had to talk it through. We had to learn to
16:55
S1: be patient and kind and selfless and sacrificial. And what
16:59
S1: I thought was abnormal because of what what porn did
17:02
S1: to my mind was actually very normal. And if we
17:04
S1: could just, you know, stay communicative, selfless, humble, we could
17:08
S1: actually have a great intimate relationship, which by the grace
17:10
S1: of God, now we do.
17:12
S3: Yeah. That's that's wonderful. Uh, now in the book, you
17:16
S3: discuss the difference between, uh, still talking about the sexual
17:20
S3: part of marriage. Now, the difference between spontaneous desire and
17:24
S3: responsive desire. So what is that difference and why does
17:29
S3: every newlywed need to understand it?
17:32
S1: Yeah, man, I wish I could have told my newlywed self.
17:36
S1: This spontaneous desire. This is stereotypical how guys are wired.
17:40
S1: But it's not all guys. Some women are like this.
17:43
S1: It's like I wasn't thinking about sex. And then I
17:45
S1: came home from work and I saw you, and in
17:49
S1: a millisecond, I thought I could have sex right now.
17:52
S1: That the desire to be with you in an intimate
17:54
S1: way just comes spontaneously. It comes fast. It's like a
17:58
S1: Ferrari getting onto the interstate. It can go from 0
18:01
S1: to 70 pretty quickly. Um, now, if you have responsive desire,
18:05
S1: it doesn't mean you don't enjoy sex or you don't
18:07
S1: want sex. What happens though, is that your body and
18:10
S1: your desire often responds after sex has started. So think
18:15
S1: back to the example I gave just a few minutes
18:16
S1: ago when I ask him, are you okay? She was okay.
18:20
S1: It was just taking time for her body to respond
18:22
S1: to that moment so she could really enjoy it.
18:24
S4: Yeah.
18:25
S1: And I think what happened with me is because, you know,
18:28
S1: I thought the way that I was wired was how
18:30
S1: all people were wired that, you know, when I would
18:33
S1: put a move on Kim or initiate intimacy, and she
18:36
S1: wouldn't do the same thing in return. You know, when, uh, when,
18:40
S1: when I would see her getting ready in the morning.
18:41
S1: And I just thought, this is the most beautiful woman ever.
18:44
S1: And I could, like, change in front of her and
18:45
S1: jump into the shower. And I mean, she could, she
18:48
S1: could talk about what was for dinner and not.
18:51
S4: And not be.
18:51
S1: Attracted in the same way. I thought like, wow, do I,
18:54
S1: do I love you more than you love me? I
18:56
S1: honestly thought, um, is this rejection and are you not
18:59
S1: attracted to me? And, and it was none of those
19:02
S1: things I just didn't understand. I mean, there's differences in
19:04
S1: the way that we're wired. And now that I know
19:06
S1: that Kim is a responsive desire, I don't panic, I
19:10
S1: don't get impatient. I just take my time, try to
19:13
S1: be a good lover to her. And we end up
19:15
S1: both enjoying the moment when it comes.
19:17
S3: Boy, I think the couples who are listening can identify
19:21
S3: with that if they've been married. Uh, you know, three months. Okay.
19:27
S3: Now another big area is communication. And, uh, we certainly
19:31
S3: agree that it's a huge part of marriage. So what
19:34
S3: is the what is the stoplight method that you talk about?
19:38
S3: How does it change the way that couples talk to
19:41
S3: each other?
19:42
S1: Yeah, I can remember the very place where I came
19:45
S1: up with the stoplight method. Um, local coffee shop here
19:49
S1: in the city where I live. Appleton, Wisconsin. Brand new
19:52
S1: newlywed couple that got married really young. I think they
19:55
S1: were like 19, 20, maybe 21 years old. Uh, kind
19:58
S1: of quiet wife. Uh, big, boisterous, lovable guy. And he says,
20:02
S1: pastor Mike, I don't know how to be a good husband.
20:04
S1: I come home from work and I see that my
20:07
S1: wife is just having a bad day. And I say,
20:08
S1: what's wrong? And she says, nothing. And and I can like,
20:12
S1: I know her and I love her. I know something's wrong.
20:14
S1: So I say, no, tell me what's wrong. And she
20:15
S1: says nothing. And so I keep pushing it to find
20:18
S1: out what's wrong. And then she gets really mad. And
20:19
S1: we have a big fight and I don't know what
20:21
S1: to do.
20:22
S4: Yeah. And I smiled and said.
20:24
S1: Okay, first I have been there. And number two, here's
20:28
S1: what you need to know that sometimes when your spouse
20:31
S1: is hurting. What they need is space. That's the red light. Like, stop.
20:35
S1: They don't want you to fix it. They don't want
20:37
S1: to talk about it. Um, they just need a little
20:40
S1: bit of moment to catch their breath. They just want
20:41
S1: to go to bed. It'll be better in the morning.
20:43
S1: That's the red light. The yellow light is when they
20:46
S1: need sympathy. Um, they don't want distance, but they don't
20:50
S1: want you to swoop in with a to do list
20:52
S1: of how they should fix their problem. They just want
20:54
S1: someone to say that that that sounds brutal. I can't
20:58
S1: believe they said that to you. Wow, that that's a
21:01
S1: hard day. And you already had a hard week before this.
21:03
S1: I'm so sorry. And then there's the green light, which
21:07
S1: is where they really want advice or solutions. I'm going
21:10
S1: through this thing with my mom or with my friend. Honey,
21:12
S1: what do you think I should do? And that's when
21:15
S1: they want you to give them a roadmap or a
21:17
S1: to do list. And I said, here's the problem. Um,
21:20
S1: some situations are green light solutions, yellow light sympathy or
21:24
S1: red light space. But in my experience, Doctor Chapman, when
21:27
S1: most guys are driving their truck or their car and
21:30
S1: they come to a yellow light. Do you know what
21:32
S1: they do?
21:33
S3: Speed up.
21:34
S1: They they they act like that thing is the brightest
21:37
S1: green out of all the greens that God ever made
21:39
S1: on his green earth. So what what most guys do,
21:43
S1: maybe from a discomfort going into deep emotional places is
21:46
S1: they offer solutions where their spouse wants either sympathy or space.
21:51
S3: Mhm.
21:51
S1: And so I think a really effective thing to do,
21:54
S1: you can't read your spouse's mind, but sometimes when they
21:57
S1: come home and you sense something is wrong, it can
22:00
S1: be really helpful just to say, hey, I love you.
22:02
S1: Is this like a red light, yellow light or green
22:04
S1: light moment? Do you want me to sit down and
22:07
S1: solve this with you? Do you just want someone to
22:09
S1: sit next to you? Do you just need some space
22:10
S1: to yourself? And I think that puts you on the
22:13
S1: general path of how to love your spouse best. So
22:16
S1: that I can remember where that stoplight method came from.
22:18
S1: And I still try to practice it in my own
22:20
S1: marriage to this day.
22:21
S3: Yeah, man, I think that idea would be helpful for
22:25
S3: every couple if you've got the concept, you know, and
22:29
S3: it's easy to determine where they are in the situation.
22:33
S5: Yeah, yeah. But it's it's.
22:34
S2: Hard because you have to you have to not be
22:39
S2: going with your foot on the gas pedal. You have to,
22:42
S2: first of all, be be connected with her or him,
22:46
S2: you know, your spouse to the point where you're not
22:48
S2: just thinking about yourself and then interpreting silence as, oh, well,
22:54
S2: you don't love me anymore, or, you know, you're frustrated, whatever. Uh,
22:58
S2: you have to almost divest yourself, open your hands in
23:02
S2: a way to the relationship, right? Mike.
23:05
S1: Yeah. 1,000%. What did we say before? Me first makes
23:09
S1: a mess. So if this moment is about what I
23:11
S1: want or what I feel, it's going to get conversationally
23:14
S1: messy real quick. But if this is really about you,
23:18
S1: then I think I can start with a question and
23:20
S1: two listening ears. I can figure out, you know, the
23:23
S1: best path based on your response. But if I'm making
23:26
S1: this about me in this moment. Ooh. Uh. I've learned
23:29
S1: from bad experience. That is the wrong path when it
23:32
S1: comes to tough conversations.
23:34
S3: So, Mike, before we go further, let's go back to
23:36
S3: that red light and green light and make sure that
23:38
S3: our listeners hear the difference between those three. Just go
23:41
S3: through them again quickly.
23:42
S1: Yeah. So the red light is space. The yellow light
23:45
S1: is sympathy. And the green light is solutions. I can
23:48
S1: just step out of the room. I can say a
23:50
S1: prayer for you. That's red light. I'm gonna sit down
23:52
S1: next to you, not solve it, but just say, wow,
23:55
S1: that's really difficult. I'm just gushing empathy because we're supposed
23:58
S1: to weep with those who weep. And the green light
24:01
S1: is I want to I want to fix this problem,
24:03
S1: I need help, I don't know what to do. Would
24:04
S1: you listen? Use your brain. Pray with me. Look to God,
24:07
S1: and come up with a next step that I can take.
24:10
S3: Great plan.
24:11
S2: You're listening to the Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
24:15
S2: And remember, you can ask a question of our host
24:17
S2: on our monthly Dear Gary broadcast. Call 1866424, Gary and
24:24
S2: leave your message and you might hear an answer on
24:27
S2: an upcoming broadcast. That's (866) 424-4279. If you go to building relationships.us,
24:35
S2: you'll find some great resources, a list of seminar locations,
24:39
S2: great resources, a list of seminar locations coming up for
24:42
S2: Doctor Chapman, see our featured resource, the book by Mike Novotny,
24:46
S2: Newlywed A Christian Guide for Loving Year one and a
24:50
S2: lot more. Just go to Building relationships.us or five Love languages.com.
24:56
S3: Well, Mike, what do you say to couples who who
24:59
S3: love each other, but they are not on the same
25:02
S3: spiritual page in their relationship with God?
25:07
S1: Oh that's tricky. You know, ideally you step into marriage
25:10
S1: and you're both seeking God with your whole heart. But
25:13
S1: as we all know, we don't live in Eden anymore.
25:16
S1: Sometimes you fall in love with someone and you hope
25:18
S1: they're going to get more spiritual in the process. And
25:21
S1: sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes you come to
25:24
S1: faith after your wedding day and now you're excited about church,
25:28
S1: about Bible reading, about prayer, about generosity, about your spouse isn't.
25:31
S1: So what do you do in that moment? Um, I
25:34
S1: think back to when Jesus told his first disciples, come,
25:38
S1: follow me, and I will send you out to fish
25:41
S1: for people. This might seem like the oddest thing to
25:44
S1: say on a relationship program, but can. Can I just
25:47
S1: say a few words about fishing on the Sea of Galilee?
25:50
S3: Yeah.
25:51
S1: All right. Um, I just learned I actually preached on
25:54
S1: this this past Sunday that, uh, Peter and Andrew and
25:56
S1: James and John would fish primarily for three kinds of fish,
26:00
S1: really fast moving schools of sardines. That was fish. Number one.
26:05
S1: Tilapia was fish number two. And these kind of bigger
26:08
S1: carp like fish called barbels. That was fish number three.
26:12
S1: And what I learned from studying first century fishing was
26:14
S1: that you had to fish for each one with a
26:16
S1: different technique. So the sardines would come up actually in
26:19
S1: the middle of the night to the surface of the
26:21
S1: Sea of Galilee. They were drawn to lights. and so
26:24
S1: Peter wanted to catch him. He'd bring a torch, he'd
26:26
S1: wake up at like 1 a.m., he'd get his boat
26:28
S1: out on the Sea of Galilee, and they would come
26:29
S1: swimming to the surface, and he'd throw out his big
26:32
S1: circular net to catch the sardines, the tilapia they didn't
26:36
S1: feed in the same way. They would feed, often by
26:38
S1: the spots where the Jordan River entered and exited the
26:41
S1: Sea of Galilee. You could catch them with a hook
26:43
S1: or a spear. And then the barbels were these big
26:45
S1: boys who would often tear the nets. And so what
26:47
S1: they would do is they'd bring a thicker net and
26:49
S1: they'd stretch it in between two boats. So we sometimes
26:52
S1: hear about, uh, Peter and Andrew fishing with James and John,
26:56
S1: and they could drag this net and catch the different
26:58
S1: kinds of fish. So why does that matter? Um, because
27:02
S1: there were different fish. You had to use different bait
27:05
S1: or different techniques. So when you ask the question, like,
27:08
S1: what do you do if your spouse isn't on the
27:11
S1: same spiritual page? I think my first answer would be, well,
27:14
S1: tell me about your spouse. Maybe they're a person who
27:18
S1: didn't grow up in a Christian home, and they're not
27:20
S1: super excited about Jesus because they don't know about Jesus.
27:24
S1: And it's kind of a Romans chapter ten situation. You know,
27:26
S1: how can they believe unless they hear the good news?
27:28
S1: And how can they hear unless someone tells them? So
27:32
S1: what should a spouse do? You should tell them. You should.
27:35
S1: You should not assume that they have like 17 objections
27:38
S1: to historic Christianity. You should just tell them what historic
27:41
S1: Christianity actually is or say that isn't your spouse's situation.
27:45
S1: What if they did grow up in church? Um, they
27:47
S1: love their pastor, and then their pastor had a moral
27:49
S1: failure and they were really burned and felt really betrayed.
27:53
S1: And they think, man, the church is just full of hypocrites.
27:56
S1: Sooner or later you find that out. Um, I think
27:58
S1: that's a first Peter three situation where Peter says to wives,
28:01
S1: if any of you have husbands that don't believe the word.
28:04
S1: You should win them over without words when they see
28:07
S1: the purity and reverence of your life. So let your
28:11
S1: spouse see you up close, not being afraid when they're afraid.
28:15
S1: Because you know the God who takes away fear. Um,
28:17
S1: when they're beating themselves up for the past, you're moving
28:20
S1: forward with freedom because you know the grace of God
28:22
S1: is enough to cover all your sins. Let your light shine.
28:25
S1: And they're going to have a front row seat to
28:26
S1: see that. I don't think you can give blanket advice,
28:29
S1: because every person who doesn't go to church or doesn't
28:32
S1: reach for a Bible in the morning or doesn't trust
28:34
S1: in Jesus, probably has their own reason or list of reasons.
28:37
S1: And I think you can use this first year if
28:38
S1: you're in that situation, to figure out exactly what those
28:40
S1: reasons are, and then with the help of God, figure
28:43
S1: out the best way to fish. So hopefully they end
28:45
S1: up in the kingdom of God by your side.
28:47
S3: Yeah. That's great. That's great advice. You know? Wow. Because
28:51
S3: you're right, there can be a non-Christian, but have different
28:54
S3: backgrounds that are positive or negative related to Christians. And
28:58
S3: so but our example is so important. Well, how about
29:03
S3: the whole area of finances? Because we know that this
29:07
S3: often is a big issue in marriage, sometimes even leads
29:11
S3: to divorce. So where do couples most commonly go wrong
29:15
S3: in the first year of their marriage?
29:18
S1: Mhm. Yeah, I think couples don't take the time to
29:22
S1: figure out their spouse's theology of money. So you have some, like, deep,
29:27
S1: deep seated beliefs. Maybe you're not even conscious of them
29:31
S1: based on your experiences growing up. And I wonder, as
29:35
S1: you were like taking her out for coffee or you
29:37
S1: were having your first dating anniversary dinner, I wonder if
29:40
S1: you ever explored like, what do you actually believe deeply
29:43
S1: about money, about God and about faith. So let's take
29:47
S1: two examples. Let's imagine there's a guy, he grows up
29:50
S1: in a house with parents who are super conservative when
29:52
S1: it comes to money. They don't spend $1 billion on
29:56
S1: Amazon every single Tuesday. They're really cautious. They're thinking about
30:00
S1: the future. You know, they took the Dave Ramsey course
30:03
S1: and they know if they invest a dollar now, 50
30:05
S1: years from now, it's going to be like $1 billion.
30:08
S1: Except except what happens if a guy growing up in
30:11
S1: that home has a dad who has a heart attack
30:14
S1: at age 58 and dies. You know what? Deeply does
30:17
S1: he viscerally feel about money? He probably thinks, man, why
30:21
S1: would you risk like, enjoying tomorrow when you don't know
30:25
S1: if you're going to get tomorrow? Um, why wouldn't I
30:28
S1: want to enjoy life with my family, with my. Why
30:30
S1: would I deprive them of a vacation or an experience
30:33
S1: when we might not be around in ten years? And
30:37
S1: then he marries the woman who grew up in a
30:39
S1: household that was just the opposite with mom and dad
30:41
S1: spending money before the check even made it to their
30:44
S1: bank account. And when she was a sophomore in high school,
30:47
S1: they couldn't pay the rent. And much to her embarrassment,
30:49
S1: she had to pack up all their stuff and leave
30:51
S1: to the other side of town. So he marries her.
30:55
S1: And then the the the first tax return comes. What
30:58
S1: does he think, man? This is free money from Jesus.
31:01
S1: We are we are going to go out and celebrate.
31:03
S1: We're going to take a trip. I was already on Expedia.
31:05
S1: I was planning the flights and the hotel and she
31:08
S1: is thinking, this is security. This is what peace looks like.
31:11
S1: God gave us this gift so we wouldn't have to
31:13
S1: be afraid about having to pack up our stuff and go.
31:16
S1: So what I would recommend is before you get married
31:19
S1: or let's say you are newly married, I would go
31:22
S1: on a date and turn it into what I like
31:24
S1: to call a deep dive date night, where there's just
31:27
S1: one thing on the agenda and maybe this thing is
31:29
S1: going to be, tell me everything that you think, believe,
31:32
S1: and have experienced with money. And the goal is not
31:35
S1: to fix you. It's not to persuade you. I just
31:37
S1: want to understand like what, what beliefs you are bringing
31:40
S1: into this relationship. Because if I don't know those deep
31:42
S1: seated beliefs, I'm just going to see your actions. You
31:45
S1: spent money or you didn't. You splurge on this purchase,
31:48
S1: or you're really cautious about every purchase that we make.
31:51
S1: And I'm not going to find the beliefs that drive
31:53
S1: the behavior. So I love those deep dive date nights
31:56
S1: to kind of uncover those things that we can move
31:57
S1: forward together, hand in hand.
31:59
S3: Yeah. Back to that whole idea of communication, right? Sharing
32:05
S3: those concepts for sure. Now, how about the whole world
32:10
S3: of social media today, which distorts the way a lot
32:14
S3: of Newlyweds see their own marriage speak to that issue.
32:20
S1: Uh, a lot of social media is what I'm going
32:24
S1: to call PG pornography. Here's what I mean by that.
32:28
S1: It's not explicit like we would think pornography is. But
32:31
S1: what I said before of what pornography did to me
32:34
S1: is that it kind of gave me this impression that
32:36
S1: sex should be easy. I think what, what a lot
32:39
S1: of social media does is just convinces you that marriage
32:42
S1: should be easier. And therefore, if your marriage is hard,
32:45
S1: something is really wrong with your marriage. You know, you
32:48
S1: see the filtered edited, you know that that couple took
32:52
S1: 22 pictures to find one where they weren't like yelling
32:55
S1: at each other and no one was blinking. And and
32:57
S1: then they posted it and you just assume, oh, every
32:59
S1: picture they take is so beautiful. So I think what
33:02
S1: happens is, you know, we know the truth about ourselves.
33:06
S1: And on social media, we only see the truth that
33:09
S1: other people wanted us to see. And very often it's
33:12
S1: their best look, it's their best foot forward and it
33:15
S1: can subtly create this discontent. I'm not totally against social media.
33:19
S1: I don't use it much personally myself. Um, you certainly
33:22
S1: can be inspired by examples on social media. You can
33:24
S1: find good ministry resources on social media. But I think
33:28
S1: the real, real danger is that, you know, just like
33:31
S1: pornography does to sex or, uh, romantic, uh, books and
33:36
S1: novels make you think that your husband is just, you know,
33:39
S1: a stick in the mud instead of, you know, Mr.
33:42
S1: Prince Charming? I think that social media can just adjust,
33:45
S1: like your expectation of what's normal, and it can make
33:47
S1: you discontent instead of grateful for the spouse you actually had.
33:51
S3: Yeah. Well, Mike, let's talk about in-laws. What's your advice
33:55
S3: on navigating in-laws without destroying the relationship on either side?
34:01
S1: Mhm. This program is seven hours long. Is that correct,
34:04
S1: Doctor Chapman? Yeah. You know, it's really easy to take
34:11
S1: cheap shots at in-laws. But I have two daughters. They
34:16
S1: are 18 and 17 years old and I don't know why.
34:19
S1: I hadn't thought of this before, but it struck me
34:21
S1: in a couple of years, if they get married the
34:23
S1: same age that Kim and I did, that I could
34:25
S1: have a son in law, maybe two. And it also
34:29
S1: struck me like, if this guy who just met my daughter's,
34:32
S1: you know, a year or two and then got married, um,
34:35
S1: then he gets the deciding vote after all of these
34:38
S1: decades that I have loved, change their diapers, uh, cut
34:42
S1: up their vegetables, um, paid countless dollars to, like, help
34:46
S1: them to enjoy life. So I think I'm starting to
34:48
S1: understand that tension where, you know, a spouse loves their spouse,
34:53
S1: but the parents love their kid. And sometimes when you
34:57
S1: don't see eye to eye on things or you wouldn't
34:58
S1: make the same decisions, there's these, you know, tough, tense moments.
35:02
S1: So how do you navigate that? I think the Bible
35:04
S1: is so brilliant because the Bible gives us two verbs
35:07
S1: that help us kind of hold the tension without going
35:11
S1: too far in either direction. The first verb is on
35:13
S1: the second page of the Bible. A man must leave
35:16
S1: his father and mother and be united to his wife.
35:19
S1: The institution of marriage. And then in the Ten Commandments,
35:22
S1: depending on how you number them, it could be the
35:24
S1: fourth commandment or the fifth commandment. Honor your father and mother.
35:29
S1: So I think those two verbs should be like your
35:32
S1: filter to figure out your in-laws leave and honor. Let
35:38
S1: me start with the leave part. Leave means that we're
35:40
S1: going to make the decisions now as a couple and
35:43
S1: that there's really two votes. There's my vote and there's
35:45
S1: your vote. Um, and that our parents might have their
35:48
S1: own opinions about what we should do A or B um,
35:51
S1: but at the end of the day, our parents aren't
35:52
S1: going to make this decision. We do. And that my
35:55
S1: ultimate goal is to make you happy and to be
35:57
S1: united with us in a relationship, even if that disappoints
35:59
S1: my parents or your parents. I think that's the leave part,
36:04
S1: the honor part. And it can be really difficult, especially
36:06
S1: for Americans who might be independently minded. is that God
36:11
S1: cares so, so, so deeply about the parents who raised you.
36:16
S1: In fact, in first Timothy chapter five, the Apostle Paul
36:19
S1: says that if anyone claims to have faith in Jesus
36:21
S1: but does not care for their own family, they're worse
36:24
S1: than an unbeliever. So, I mean, those are strong words.
36:28
S1: So to think, hey, me and my wife are going
36:30
S1: to run off and do our own thing. And I
36:31
S1: know you have your opinion, mom, but hey, we have
36:33
S1: to leave you now and become one flesh. No, the
36:36
S1: Bible would want to balance that out with this deep
36:38
S1: sense of honor. So let me get practical with one example.
36:42
S1: Let's say the holidays are coming up. Uh, your parents
36:45
S1: would love for you to go to their house on
36:46
S1: Christmas Eve. Your spouse's parents would love the same thing.
36:49
S1: You can't be two places at the same time. So
36:51
S1: what do you do? Well, I think you honor all
36:53
S1: the parents involved by taking the extra time, trying to
36:56
S1: understand their heart. Um, asking them a lot of questions. Hey,
37:00
S1: what would you like this Christmas? Um. If we can't
37:03
S1: make it this day, is there a good backup plan?
37:05
S1: I don't want to just rush into a decision and
37:07
S1: make you feel dismissed or unseen or unheard. So I'm
37:11
S1: going to put in the extra effort to love you
37:12
S1: and to honor you. And then after we have all
37:15
S1: the information, I'm going to sit down with my wife
37:16
S1: and we're going to make the decision. Okay, what are
37:18
S1: we going to do? And in the end, we want
37:20
S1: to do something that blesses our marriage, even if it
37:22
S1: disappoints our parents. So I think I think if we
37:25
S1: can do both those things and for every person, the
37:28
S1: temptation will be different. Some people don't leave, but they honor.
37:31
S1: Other people do leave, but they don't honor. Can we
37:34
S1: hold both those things in tension that we can leave
37:36
S1: and honor, which are the two big verbs, I think
37:38
S1: that guide our relationship with our in-laws?
37:41
S3: Yeah. And I think in that first year of marriage,
37:44
S3: it is a real struggle because again, we talked about
37:48
S3: those expectations. One of us really feels like, well, I
37:52
S3: need to be with my parents on this day because
37:55
S3: my mother has cancer and she may not be here
37:57
S3: next year, you know? And you a lot, a lot
38:01
S3: of factors in there, right? Yeah.
38:03
S1: 1,000%. But I think if you've communicated, they will have
38:06
S1: seen your heart. They will know that you're not just
38:09
S1: brushing them to the side as you rush into this
38:11
S1: new relationship. So yeah, they might be disappointed, but there's.
38:15
S1: You're going to leave them with plenty of evidence that
38:16
S1: you do love them.
38:17
S3: Let's go back to this expectation idea. What's one expectation
38:22
S3: you brought into your marriage that later turned out to
38:25
S3: really be completely wrong?
38:28
S1: I did not expect how amazing marriage could be 23
38:32
S1: years in. You know, people talk about the honeymoon phase
38:37
S1: as if the best part is the first part, and
38:39
S1: then it's a grind and then you die. Um, I
38:43
S1: remember a couple years ago, I was in an Indianapolis
38:45
S1: Ribs restaurant. I was at a church conference with a
38:48
S1: co-pastor of mine named Michael. And I asked Michael, what's
38:52
S1: been the best year of your marriage? And he said,
38:56
S1: year 22. And I said, okay, remind me, how long
39:00
S1: have you been married? And he smiled with a little
39:02
S1: barbecue sauce on his fingers. And he said, 22 years.
39:08
S1: And I love that when you put in the work,
39:10
S1: when you stay humble, when you learn to speak your
39:13
S1: spouse's love language. Well, I just man, I brought a
39:17
S1: lot of bad expectations into that first year of marriage,
39:19
S1: but I just never expected how good it could be
39:22
S1: when you put in the work. Yeah. And when you
39:24
S1: seek God together and you try to communicate, I would
39:26
S1: look back at my my younger self standing at the
39:30
S1: altar and just say, man, you have no clue how
39:32
S1: good this is going to be. Yeah. You have no
39:35
S1: idea what companionship and joy and pleasure and experiences. It
39:40
S1: will not be easy, but it is so worth it.
39:43
S1: So man, I wish someone would have told me that
39:45
S1: being like a middle aged man with thinning hair and
39:48
S1: a little gray on the sides, but like a happy
39:50
S1: marriage that it's so worth it. Yeah, because it is.
39:53
S3: It's it's great when you really get it moving in
39:56
S3: the right direction and you both are there for each other. Uh,
40:00
S3: it's mutually satisfying. You're right. Looking at the book. If
40:05
S3: every newly wed in America could read one chapter out
40:09
S3: of your book, which chapter would you want it to
40:12
S3: be and why? Oh.
40:14
S1: Doctor Chapman, this is like this is like making you
40:17
S1: pick one of the love language chapters. That's not fair.
40:21
S3: Okay.
40:24
S1: Okay. You're the host, though, so I will give an answer. Um,
40:27
S1: there's a little tool in the communication chapter called the
40:30
S1: Ten Commandments of Communication. And I actually have some really
40:34
S1: good friends there now, coworkers here at our church, they
40:37
S1: came from really broken backgrounds. They never learned to communicate,
40:41
S1: to stay humble, to love. Well. And about a decade ago,
40:43
S1: I took them through pre-marital counseling. And that's just when
40:45
S1: I had developed the Ten Commandments of Communication. And it's
40:49
S1: super sweet because all these years later, if you go
40:51
S1: to their house in a framed picture, right in their
40:54
S1: living room are these ten commandments. And I know we
40:57
S1: don't have time to go through all ten. So let
40:58
S1: me just give you the first one and the last one,
41:00
S1: the first commandment of communication. You shall not try to win.
41:04
S3: Yeah. Mhm.
41:05
S1: Because whenever I try to win, um, honestly, there's like
41:08
S1: seven other commandments I break. I interrupt. I don't listen well.
41:12
S1: I change the subject. I bring up the past. I
41:15
S1: get defensive, I don't own my stuff. So if you
41:18
S1: can just remember. And it's hard when you're when you
41:21
S1: don't agree and it's emotional. The goal of this is
41:23
S1: not to win. Because if you make that the goal,
41:26
S1: you will lose by the time the conversation is done.
41:29
S3: Yep.
41:29
S1: And then commandment number ten. I love being a Christian.
41:32
S1: For this reason, you shall communicate at the foot of
41:34
S1: the cross.
41:35
S3: Mhm.
41:36
S1: So, man, nothing has exposed Mike like being married. If
41:41
S1: I thought I was a good person. Man, marriage has
41:45
S1: proved otherwise. It's shocking. You know, when you spend when
41:49
S1: you spend decades and your spouse is going to see
41:52
S1: the Prince Charming and the troll who lives under the bridge, uh,
41:56
S1: they're going to see the best part of you and
41:57
S1: the worst part of you and your pastor probably won't
41:59
S1: see that. Your teachers won't see that your best friend
42:01
S1: maybe will see that. But a person who's going to
42:04
S1: spend that much time with you till death do you
42:06
S1: part is going to see all of it. And that's
42:09
S1: why I love that there is a Jesus who's right
42:12
S1: in the center of this. There is grace that is
42:16
S1: greater than my greatest sins. There is mercy that wakes
42:19
S1: up with me those mornings when I had a dumb
42:21
S1: argument at night because I was trying to win. There's
42:24
S1: a cross that gets the final word, and it's the
42:26
S1: grace that forgives us, saves us, and motivates us to
42:28
S1: love each other better in the days to come.
42:30
S3: Yeah, I think those Ten Commandments, uh, would be worth
42:36
S3: the price of this book. All these others are important.
42:39
S3: It's all good. Really good. But let me ask you this.
42:42
S3: I know you've been in pastoral ministry for a long time. Uh,
42:47
S3: what's the most common marriage problem that you see in
42:51
S3: these days?
42:53
S1: I don't know if the fall into sin in Genesis
42:56
S1: three is meant to be a paradigm, but Doctor Chapman,
43:00
S1: I think that's what I see again and again and
43:03
S1: again when marriages go wrong. Yeah. I see husbands who,
43:06
S1: like Adam in the garden, get too passive. They don't
43:10
S1: step up into that headship calling that God has given.
43:13
S1: They they don't think that the problems of their relationship
43:16
S1: are actually problems. They're dismissive of their wives. It's fine.
43:19
S1: We don't need counseling. Everything's okay. Yeah. And then bit
43:24
S1: by bit, what I see is that many wives become
43:26
S1: a little bit bitter, that this burden has been placed
43:28
S1: on their shoulders, and they start to become kind of
43:31
S1: independent from their husbands and their hearts grow cold.
43:34
S3: Yeah.
43:35
S1: So I think what Adam did in the garden is
43:37
S1: what too many men do today and what Eve did,
43:40
S1: disobeying God and just stepping up and stepping out. I'm
43:42
S1: going to figure this out myself, with or without you.
43:45
S1: That's what I see. And I think one of the
43:47
S1: prayers that I have for husbands is to not be
43:49
S1: a I know this is controversial in our culture, but
43:52
S1: you are the head of your household according to the
43:55
S1: New Testament. And the only question is whether you're a
43:57
S1: good head or a bad head in your marriage? Yeah.
44:00
S1: You don't have to be perfect. But, man, if you
44:03
S1: can realize God has given me the sacred responsibility to
44:06
S1: make things good. If there's a rotten fruit in the garden.
44:09
S1: I got to pull out some weeds and put in
44:10
S1: some work. The God who gave you that position is
44:13
S1: going to be by you to equip you. But yeah,
44:15
S1: if there's guys listening today, you might be in a
44:18
S1: tough spot. But please don't be passive. Please do not
44:21
S1: dismiss her emotions as just her emotions. You are one
44:25
S1: in this marriage. You've been made one body by the
44:28
S1: blessing of the sacred covenant. So step up with faith,
44:31
S1: with the spirit, with grace, forgiveness, with good biblical leadership.
44:34
S1: I love her as Christ loved the church, and I
44:36
S1: would love to see what happens next.
44:38
S3: Well, you know, Mike, in the first year of our marriage,
44:42
S3: I'll be very honest. I had the thought. I think
44:46
S3: I've made a mistake. I think I've married the wrong person.
44:50
S3: What would you say to a couple who is in
44:52
S3: their first year of marriage? And already they are wondering
44:57
S3: If they have made a mistake.
45:00
S1: That is such a lie that comes from the father
45:04
S1: of lies, who hates that God made the two of
45:06
S1: you one because one. Once you stop thinking we're different.
45:11
S1: This is hard. We're going to put in the work
45:13
S1: and this is going to work. Once you stop thinking
45:16
S1: that which is the right path and start thinking, I
45:19
S1: made a mistake. We're incompatible. I'll never be happy. He's
45:24
S1: the wrong person. She'll never change. I mean, these these
45:28
S1: negative thoughts will infect and they will grow into distance
45:33
S1: and bitterness, perhaps even infidelity. So I just want you
45:37
S1: to know Jesus said what God has joined together. So
45:41
S1: if you are married, literally the God of the universe
45:44
S1: has joined you together and he's not going to leave
45:47
S1: you to figure this out on his own, he's going
45:48
S1: to help you. So please do not let the serpent
45:51
S1: slither into the garden of your marriage and convince you
45:53
S1: you married the wrong person. You married a sinner for sure.
45:57
S1: And and by the way, your spouse married a sinner too. Um,
46:00
S1: is it going to be difficult when two sinners get married?
46:02
S1: For sure. But please, please, please, like, shake yourself of
46:05
S1: that deception of thinking this was a mistake. You are married.
46:10
S1: God brought you together. He's going to help you through it.
46:12
S1: So if you need help, ask for it. If there's
46:15
S1: something you need to address, do it. If you have
46:17
S1: to involve some close, trusted friends, a pastor, a counselor,
46:20
S1: go for it. Kim and I have done that and
46:21
S1: it was a great, great blessing. But don't just sit
46:24
S1: there in the deception and let it pull you two apart.
46:27
S3: And I want to say amen, because I'm so glad
46:30
S3: I didn't follow that thought and allow it to control
46:34
S3: my behavior. Well, Mike, this has been a great conversation
46:38
S3: and it's a great book. And I want to just
46:40
S3: challenge our listeners, many of our listeners are not in
46:43
S3: the first year of marriage, but listen, you know, someone
46:45
S3: who is I would encourage you to get copies of
46:48
S3: this book and just have them available for people that
46:50
S3: you encounter who enter their first year of marriage. And also,
46:54
S3: it's a great book for counselors and pastors to have.
46:57
S3: So thank you for being here today, and thank you
46:59
S3: for the time you invested in putting this book together.
47:02
S1: Thank you so much for having me. Doctor Chapman.
47:05
S2: That's pastor Mike Novotny, and his book is our featured
47:08
S2: resource at Building relationships.us. Newlywed A Christian Guide for Loving
47:13
S2: Year one. Just go to building relationships.us.
47:18
S3: So how do you become the man God designed you
47:20
S3: to be? A father and son duo tackle that question
47:24
S3: in one week.
47:25
S2: Here, Tim and Mark shoemaker deal with toxic masculinity and
47:29
S2: more right here. A big thank you to our production team,
47:32
S2: Steve and Janice. Backing building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
47:36
S2: is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers,
47:40
S2: a Ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.