Latest / The Path Went Chilly / Vernon Shipman, Charles Glass & Louise Davis Shumate Pt. One

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Vernon Shipman, Charles Glass & Louise Davis Shumate Pt. One · The Path Went Chilly

0:30
Speaker 1: So welcome to our next series from the Path Went Chili.
0:33
Speaker 1: I'm Robin and Ashley is still on break. So per usual,
0:36
Speaker 1: we'll follow our formula where I'll share all the details
0:38
Speaker 1: about a case with Jewels and she'll give off her
0:41
Speaker 1: live reaction and this will be one of the craziest
0:44
Speaker 1: cases we've ever covered. It's a triple homicide involving three
0:47
Speaker 1: victims named Charles Glass, Vernon Shipman, and Luis Davis Shoemate,
0:53
Speaker 1: which I covered on The Trail Went Cold about two
0:55
Speaker 1: years ago. So, Jewles, do you have any familiarity with
0:58
Speaker 1: this case?
1:00
Speaker 2: Think so, And I feel like with those names it
1:03
Speaker 2: would ring a bell. It reminds me of the movie
1:07
Speaker 2: Bridesmaids when Kristin Wiggs's character is talking to John Hamm
1:11
Speaker 2: and she's talking about a guy that is going to
1:14
Speaker 2: potentially like take her out or whatever, and I think
1:17
Speaker 2: she says his name is Charles Charles Glass. I think
1:21
Speaker 2: that would definitely trigger a memory for me. And they
1:23
Speaker 2: all have kind of unique names, so I don't think
1:27
Speaker 2: that I've heard of this because we don't typically see
1:30
Speaker 2: cases where there's multiple victims, like you know, the Springfield
1:35
Speaker 2: three or you know where there's disappearances where there's multiple people,
1:39
Speaker 2: they really stick in your head. So I think this
1:41
Speaker 2: case is going to be all new to me.
1:44
Speaker 1: Yes, I'd forgotten about that line of bridesmaids. But it's
1:46
Speaker 1: kind of cool that this fictional name that she came
1:48
Speaker 1: up with is actually the name of a murder victim
1:50
Speaker 1: in one of our cases. But this took place in
1:53
Speaker 1: North Carolina in nineteen sixty six, and what's interesting is
1:56
Speaker 1: that Charles Glass and Vernon Shipman were gay. They were
1:59
Speaker 1: not romantically involved, they were just friends. And of course,
2:03
Speaker 1: this being a North Carolina conservative area in the sixties,
2:06
Speaker 1: you kind of think that, well, maybe this is a
2:08
Speaker 1: hate crime. But what really makes this unusual is that,
2:11
Speaker 1: as far as anyone can tell, the third victim, Luis
2:14
Speaker 1: Davis Shoemate, had no connection to Vernon and Charles at all,
2:18
Speaker 1: like didn't even know them and lived in a completely
2:20
Speaker 1: different town. The Charles and Vernon hailed from Hendersonville, North Carolina,
2:25
Speaker 1: whereas Louise lived twenty five miles away in Asheville, and
2:29
Speaker 1: the respective cars would be found abandoned at different locations
2:33
Speaker 1: several miles away. So the big unanswered question is not
2:36
Speaker 1: only just who did this, what the motive was, But
2:39
Speaker 1: how did these three victims wind up being murdered together
2:42
Speaker 1: at the same crime scene in a remote area, Like,
2:45
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like this where you're finding some
2:48
Speaker 1: victims together, yet there doesn't seem to be a connection
2:50
Speaker 1: between them.
2:52
Speaker 2: That's so strange. Should maybe the connection is, since this
2:57
Speaker 2: is unsolved, is the killer if that is the denominator,
3:01
Speaker 2: and the killer maybe went on some kind of spree
3:04
Speaker 2: and ended up killing multiple people that were in their
3:07
Speaker 2: life or somehow connected to them, either directly or like
3:11
Speaker 2: tangentially connected to them. And so until you're able to
3:16
Speaker 2: isolate who the potential killer could be, then finding the
3:20
Speaker 2: connections between the victims may prove to be fruitless.
3:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, this is a case where there have been
3:26
Speaker 1: a number of potential suspects over the years, but no
3:28
Speaker 1: one can figure out the logistics of how this happened,
3:31
Speaker 1: about why these three victims would all be killed in
3:34
Speaker 1: the same location together, and why any of the suspects
3:38
Speaker 1: would do this. The best example I can think of
3:40
Speaker 1: something like this is, of course, the murders of Nicole
3:42
Speaker 1: Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman, who were both found together
3:46
Speaker 1: at the same crime scene, but at least in that
3:48
Speaker 1: one you can kind of figure out how the events
3:50
Speaker 1: played out, because we know that Nicole had gone to
3:52
Speaker 1: a restaurant her mother had left her glasses behind, and
3:55
Speaker 1: because Ron worked there, he decided to bring the glasses
3:58
Speaker 1: back to Nicole's home, and it's likely that he walked
4:00
Speaker 1: in on oj Simpson killing Nicole, even though of course
4:04
Speaker 1: he was found not guilty and Ron was killed because
4:06
Speaker 1: he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
4:08
Speaker 1: But here I'm trying to figure out, like, did someone
4:12
Speaker 1: take Vernon in Charles out to remote area to kill
4:14
Speaker 1: them and then Louise got murdered because she was an
4:17
Speaker 1: innocent bystander who happened to witness it. They've never been
4:20
Speaker 1: able to figure out how this happened.
4:22
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's a pretty good theory. Perhaps Louise
4:25
Speaker 2: happened upon the crime and she was just collateral damage.
4:30
Speaker 2: It's either that or somehow in the killer's life there
4:34
Speaker 2: might have been some agitating event, something that basically was
4:39
Speaker 2: a catalyst for them to go. I'm going to go
4:42
Speaker 2: and settle all of these old scores or perceive slights
4:46
Speaker 2: that these individuals have had against me, and since maybe
4:49
Speaker 2: they haven't been able to raise the right suspect, and
4:52
Speaker 2: maybe that's why there isn't an answer as to why
4:57
Speaker 2: these specific individuals were targeted and what the connection was.
5:01
Speaker 2: But I mean, an innocent bystander is just as good
5:03
Speaker 2: of a theory as an unknown chiller who did have
5:06
Speaker 2: connections to both.
5:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, as we're going to talk about their number of
5:09
Speaker 1: eyewitness sightings where the killer was supposedly seen with all
5:13
Speaker 1: three of the victims, but we still don't know how
5:15
Speaker 1: these three victims wound up together in the first place.
5:18
Speaker 1: So that's why this is such a crazy case with
5:20
Speaker 1: a number of twists and turns. So the first part
5:24
Speaker 1: takes place in Hendersonville, North Carolina, which is located in
5:28
Speaker 1: Henderson County, twenty five miles south of Asheville, and this
5:32
Speaker 1: is July of nineteen sixty six, and two of the
5:35
Speaker 1: victims are forty three year old Vernon Shipman, who lives
5:38
Speaker 1: with his seventy four year old father, Harley Shipman, because
5:42
Speaker 1: his mother passed away a long time ago. And the
5:44
Speaker 1: second victim is thirty six year old Charles Glass, who
5:48
Speaker 1: runs a local music store in Hendersonville called the Tempo Shop.
5:52
Speaker 1: Both of them are known for being very friendly gentlemen
5:56
Speaker 1: who are socialites, who hold a lot of parties and
5:58
Speaker 1: are liked by most people who knew them. And of
6:02
Speaker 1: course they happen to be gay, which is a very
6:05
Speaker 1: big deal back then in Hendersonville in nineteen sixty six,
6:08
Speaker 1: because this was known for being a conservative Bible Belt community,
6:12
Speaker 1: and while Vernon was a lot more secretive about a
6:14
Speaker 1: sexual orientation, fearing potential backlash, Charles was a lot more
6:18
Speaker 1: open about it and pretty much flaunted it and didn't
6:21
Speaker 1: care who knew about it. Neither of the men, as
6:24
Speaker 1: far as I can tell, had ever been romantically involved
6:26
Speaker 1: in a relationship. They were just close friends. And it's
6:29
Speaker 1: been told that it was pretty much an open secret
6:32
Speaker 1: in the area where a lot of the residents knew
6:34
Speaker 1: they were gay, even though they didn't try to acknowledge
6:36
Speaker 1: it all that much. And as we're going to talk about,
6:39
Speaker 1: this has been pushed forward as one of the potential
6:41
Speaker 1: theories about why they both might have been murdered together
6:44
Speaker 1: in such a brutal fashion.
6:46
Speaker 2: I mean, it coming down to being a hate crime
6:49
Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense, especially we're looking at nineteen
6:51
Speaker 2: sixty six and we're looking at North Carolina and the
6:56
Speaker 2: prevailing attitude or sentiment I'm sure would have been pretty
7:01
Speaker 2: anti gay considering the time period. I mean, the South
7:05
Speaker 2: now is still known to be less tolerant than other
7:09
Speaker 2: parts of the country, So I can imagine that they
7:12
Speaker 2: were up against a lot with regards to their standing
7:17
Speaker 2: in society and how they were perceived. And I think
7:20
Speaker 2: it's incredibly brave for Charles to have been living his
7:24
Speaker 2: life out and to be proud and to basically not
7:29
Speaker 2: deny that he's a gay man. That is incredibly brave,
7:33
Speaker 2: and so I really hope that he didn't encounter a
7:36
Speaker 2: lot of homophobia. And as far as Vernon goes, you know,
7:40
Speaker 2: he was still pretty young. How old was Vernon? You
7:43
Speaker 2: said thirty something.
7:44
Speaker 1: Forty three and Charles was thirty six.
7:46
Speaker 2: Okay, so he was forty three years old, and he
7:49
Speaker 2: lived his whole life probably in the closet, and very
7:54
Speaker 2: cautious about the choices that he made and how that
7:57
Speaker 2: would impact his standing in the community and his treatment
8:02
Speaker 2: in Hendersonville. So I can understand both perspectives. I can
8:07
Speaker 2: applaud Charles for being out, but I can also completely
8:11
Speaker 2: empathize with what Vernon was going through and why he
8:14
Speaker 2: chose to be secretive.
8:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mentioned that he was living at the time
8:18
Speaker 1: with his seventy four year old father, and it's still
8:20
Speaker 1: not clear to me from any of the horses I
8:22
Speaker 1: read whether the father, Harley, was aware that his son
8:24
Speaker 1: was gay at all and if he would have been
8:26
Speaker 1: accepting of it. So I can definitely understand why Vernon
8:29
Speaker 1: was a lot more secretive about it, because he may
8:31
Speaker 1: have been worried about a potential fallout with his father
8:34
Speaker 1: and a big rift and a split up, and that's
8:37
Speaker 1: why he tried to keep it under the radar. So
8:41
Speaker 1: since Charles owned a music's shop, he was actually very
8:44
Speaker 1: into music, and he and Vernon worked together to record
8:47
Speaker 1: a couple records during the nineteen fifties, where Charles provided
8:51
Speaker 1: the vocals and Vernon played the piano in the background
8:54
Speaker 1: and wrote some of the songs. And prior to recording this,
8:57
Speaker 1: I didn't tell you any details of the case, but
8:59
Speaker 1: I had to send you a YouTube clip of a
9:01
Speaker 1: recording from one of their records, which is one of
9:04
Speaker 1: the most demented songs I've ever heard. It's called Screaming
9:07
Speaker 1: and a Dying and rolling on the floor, and it
9:09
Speaker 1: starts out with a sound clip of a woman yelling no, Daddy,
9:13
Speaker 1: no before a gunshot sound, and where before Charles starts singing,
9:16
Speaker 1: she was screaming and dying and rolling on the floor,
9:20
Speaker 1: where he essentially sings about catching his wife in bed
9:23
Speaker 1: with another man and deciding to murder her over it.
9:26
Speaker 1: And thankfully Charles is not a suspect in this crime.
9:29
Speaker 1: He's one of the victims, because otherwise this would have
9:31
Speaker 1: a much darker connotation that he's singing so joyfully about murder.
9:36
Speaker 1: And you even said that it's a pretty catchy song.
9:38
Speaker 1: It's surprisingly good, though if you listen to the lyrics
9:41
Speaker 1: for it, it sounds pretty demented.
9:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those songs where it's catchy, like
9:47
Speaker 2: I think this is another problematic person. It just popped
9:50
Speaker 2: into my head. But Jerry Lee Lewis is like Great
9:52
Speaker 2: Balls of Fire, like a song like that where it
9:55
Speaker 2: comes on and you could catch yourself singing along to it.
9:58
Speaker 2: So when Robin sent me this, I was thinking, this
10:01
Speaker 2: is going to be some horrible song that somebody related
10:05
Speaker 2: to a case is done, and we don't usually have
10:07
Speaker 2: musical gems associated with cases, but this one was surprisingly good,
10:12
Speaker 2: even though the subject matter was incredibly dark.
10:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think once you find out that Charles
10:18
Speaker 1: was gay, think it feels a lot lighter because as
10:20
Speaker 1: far as I can tell, I don't think he was
10:21
Speaker 1: ever in a relationship with a woman, So we obviously
10:24
Speaker 1: never found like his wife or his girlfriend cheating on
10:27
Speaker 1: or something like that. So you don't get the sense
10:29
Speaker 1: this is an in cell or someone someone who has
10:32
Speaker 1: like a big hatred towards women, because by all accounts,
10:35
Speaker 1: Charles was a very nice, joyful, friendly guy. So it
10:38
Speaker 1: is kind of ironic that he wrote such a dark
10:40
Speaker 1: sounding song in such a jovial manner and then years
10:43
Speaker 1: later would become a murder victim himself. So on the
10:47
Speaker 1: afternoon of July seventeenth, nineteen sixty six, Vernon and his father, Harley,
10:52
Speaker 1: had a late breakfast at the residence before Harley left
10:55
Speaker 1: at around two pm, but when he returned home several
10:58
Speaker 1: hours later at eight thirty that night, he was surprised
11:01
Speaker 1: to discover that Vernon was not there and that his car,
11:04
Speaker 1: a blue nineteen sixty two Ford Fair Lane, was also missing,
11:08
Speaker 1: and oddly, the front door was left open and Vernon's
11:11
Speaker 1: coat and tie were lying on Harley's bed, Even though
11:14
Speaker 1: it was very uncommon for Vernon to leave his clothing
11:17
Speaker 1: laying around in his father's bedroom, and he did not
11:20
Speaker 1: come home that evening, and he failed to show up
11:23
Speaker 1: for work the following morning, which was very uncharacteristic. And
11:27
Speaker 1: Charles was also scheduled to open up his music store,
11:30
Speaker 1: the Temple Music Shop, the following morning, and he did
11:32
Speaker 1: not show up, and he could not be found at
11:35
Speaker 1: his own residence on Wildwood Road, in a completely different
11:38
Speaker 1: section of town. And Charles's disappearance was all the more
11:42
Speaker 1: unusual because he had broken his legs several months earlier
11:45
Speaker 1: and was still wearing a boot on his left foot
11:47
Speaker 1: and using crutches to get around, so it seemed like
11:50
Speaker 1: he an unlikely candidate to just take off voluntarily when
11:54
Speaker 1: it was difficult for him to get around. So of course,
11:57
Speaker 1: there was some panic about the fact that these two
11:59
Speaker 1: friends had both gone missing simultaneously, but unfortunately the police
12:03
Speaker 1: didn't really take them seriously at first because they once
12:06
Speaker 1: they learned they were gay, they just said, oh, they're
12:08
Speaker 1: probably just out partying somewhere and we'll return, because I
12:11
Speaker 1: guess being gay automatically means that you're a big partier
12:14
Speaker 1: and are just going to disappear voluntarily and deny all
12:18
Speaker 1: your responsibilities.
12:19
Speaker 2: Well, that's had to be incredibly frustrating for the families
12:22
Speaker 2: because obviously this behavior is atypical. Charles has this injury,
12:27
Speaker 2: so he's called this boot on his foot, and I
12:29
Speaker 2: find it so odd that and let me know if
12:33
Speaker 2: he ever did this before. But it seems like a
12:36
Speaker 2: strange detail that his clothes would have been in his
12:39
Speaker 2: father's room, doesn't it.
12:41
Speaker 1: It is, yes, And as we're going to talk about,
12:43
Speaker 1: there would be a phone call later where someone called
12:46
Speaker 1: the residence and overheard something going on there to suggest
12:50
Speaker 1: that maybe Vernon and Charles were under duress. So it
12:53
Speaker 1: makes me wonder if maybe, like Vernon was interrupted while
12:55
Speaker 1: he was getting dressed, and maybe as kind of a
12:57
Speaker 1: warning sign to show something was wrong, he might have
13:00
Speaker 1: a calculated decision to leave his clothing in his father's
13:03
Speaker 1: room so that when Naharley came home, maybe he'll kind
13:06
Speaker 1: of look at this and figure out that something's wrong.
13:09
Speaker 2: I think that's a really good theory, because there really
13:12
Speaker 2: seems to be no other explanation when he has his
13:15
Speaker 2: own room why he would leave clothing there unless he's
13:18
Speaker 2: trying to, like you, said breadcrumb Harley and say, hey,
13:21
Speaker 2: like there's something wrong here. I'm trying to give you
13:25
Speaker 2: some kind of signal, something that's atypical that you're going
13:28
Speaker 2: to spot. And then when he's later found to be murdered,
13:32
Speaker 2: then it then it's obviously going to be tied back
13:36
Speaker 2: to that somehow. And I think your theory that he's
13:40
Speaker 2: leaving a clue in the best manner that he can
13:43
Speaker 2: given whatever circumstances he was experiencing is a good one.
13:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. So it would not be until Wednesday, July
13:52
Speaker 1: the twentieth, three days after they both went missing, when
13:55
Speaker 1: an official missing person's report was filed by police and
13:58
Speaker 1: they started an investigation, and later that same day they
14:01
Speaker 1: would finally find Vernon's abandoned Ford Fairlane, only three blocks
14:05
Speaker 1: from his home, resting on a dirt road that ran
14:08
Speaker 1: parallel to some railroad tracks. The keys were still in
14:11
Speaker 1: the ignition, and there were some cigarette butts, one of
14:14
Speaker 1: which had lipstick on it, which struck everyone as weird.
14:18
Speaker 1: And they also found that a base and a handle
14:20
Speaker 1: of a bumper jack were inside the vehicle, even though
14:23
Speaker 1: the chaft was missing. And this is also going to
14:25
Speaker 1: turn out to be a key clue, and when they
14:28
Speaker 1: spoke to a number of by witnesses who lived in
14:30
Speaker 1: the area, they reported that the fair Lane had been
14:32
Speaker 1: parked at that location as early as seven am on
14:35
Speaker 1: Monday July the eighteenth, the day after Vernon and Charles
14:39
Speaker 1: went missing. So on the surface, it appeared that maybe
14:41
Speaker 1: they had been forced to leave the house under duress
14:44
Speaker 1: and someone just decided to abandon the car there, but
14:47
Speaker 1: they could not figure out at the outset why a
14:49
Speaker 1: cigarette butt with lipstick was found in the ashtray.
14:53
Speaker 2: This makes me wonder if there's more than one person involved,
14:56
Speaker 2: because when you have multiple victims have a cigarette with lipsticks,
15:02
Speaker 2: So I think there's a potential that there's a woman involved,
15:05
Speaker 2: and would she be a sole perpetrator who would be
15:08
Speaker 2: able to control like two individuals now, but at the
15:11
Speaker 2: end three individuals. It seems more likely to me that
15:16
Speaker 2: there had to have been multiple people that were controlling
15:20
Speaker 2: Vernon and Charles and later Louise. And this cigarette butt
15:25
Speaker 2: with the lipstick I think is really interesting and it
15:28
Speaker 2: just opens it up that perhaps there could have been
15:30
Speaker 2: a man and a woman.
15:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, Unfortunately they didn't have DNA testing back in nineteen
15:34
Speaker 1: sixty six, because they would be able to establish if
15:37
Speaker 1: the cigarette bup belonged to Louise, because she was known
15:40
Speaker 1: for being a smoker, and so you're wondering was she
15:44
Speaker 1: with them at the time smoking a cigarette or could
15:47
Speaker 1: the cigarette but belong to someone else who was involved
15:50
Speaker 1: in the crime. So, now that the investigation was launched,
15:53
Speaker 1: police tried to establish a timeline. It turned out that
15:57
Speaker 1: on the afternoon of July the seventeenth, the data they
16:00
Speaker 1: went missing, Vernon and Charles have been seen together at
16:03
Speaker 1: a local restaurant and an antique shop, and it seemed
16:06
Speaker 1: very likely that they went back to Vernon's house together
16:09
Speaker 1: while his father Harley was gone, and that evening, Vernon
16:13
Speaker 1: was scheduled to have dinner with a friend of his
16:15
Speaker 1: named Robert Amston, who called Vernon's residence at about four
16:19
Speaker 1: forty five pm, and when Charles answered the phone, Robert
16:23
Speaker 1: left a message asking Vernon to pick him up at
16:25
Speaker 1: a place called the Echo in restaurant in Lodge, which
16:29
Speaker 1: is where Robert worked as an assistant manager. He said
16:32
Speaker 1: that he wanted Vernon to pick him up at five
16:34
Speaker 1: thirty pm so they could go to a country club
16:37
Speaker 1: for dinner, but even though Charles told Robert that he
16:39
Speaker 1: would pass along the message, Vernon never showed up to
16:42
Speaker 1: meet him, and when Robert called Vernon's residence to see
16:45
Speaker 1: where he was, no one answered the phone and he
16:48
Speaker 1: never did hear from Vernon again. And at around five
16:51
Speaker 1: point thirty, which is when Vernon should have been picking
16:54
Speaker 1: up Robert, another friend of Vernon's name Sue Nichols, called
16:57
Speaker 1: his residence and once again Charles answered the phone, and
17:01
Speaker 1: Sue's thought that Charles sounded drunk or that there was
17:04
Speaker 1: something wrong with him, and she could hear the sound
17:06
Speaker 1: of someone in the background telling Charles to get off
17:09
Speaker 1: the phone, and Sue thought it was Vernon's voice, and
17:13
Speaker 1: then she soon heard some footsteps, followed by Charles saying
17:16
Speaker 1: quote no Vernon, God, no, don't hit me, before the
17:19
Speaker 1: line suddenly went dead. So, since this is when Vernon
17:23
Speaker 1: should have been picking up Robert, it seemed obvious that
17:26
Speaker 1: there was probably someone else in the house with Vernon
17:29
Speaker 1: Charles at that time, and that they were under dress.
17:33
Speaker 2: That is absolutely chilling, especially when we know what harm
17:38
Speaker 2: ends up befalling them in the end. To think of
17:41
Speaker 2: what the context could have been for why Vernon would
17:45
Speaker 2: have been hitting Charles, or was it the other way around.
17:49
Speaker 1: It's hard to tell because Charles was on the phone
17:51
Speaker 1: and Sue heard him say no Vernon, and we don't
17:54
Speaker 1: know if he's specifically saying no, like yelling at Vernon,
17:58
Speaker 1: don't hit me, or if he's just saying no Vernon
18:00
Speaker 1: and then saying don't hit me to someone else. So
18:03
Speaker 1: that's hard to tell if it was Vernon attacking Charles
18:05
Speaker 1: or if Charles just happened to see his name say
18:07
Speaker 1: his name before someone else hit him.
18:10
Speaker 2: This is so confusing, and especially if they were under duress,
18:14
Speaker 2: it seems so odd that any type of like kidnappers
18:17
Speaker 2: or perpetrators would allow them to answer the phone, unless
18:22
Speaker 2: maybe they pled and said, you know, we always answer
18:25
Speaker 2: the phone, and so if we don't, it's going to
18:28
Speaker 2: alert people quicker. So if you want to buy yourself
18:31
Speaker 2: more time, then we better operate as you know, as
18:35
Speaker 2: if everything was normal or typical.
18:38
Speaker 1: That's what it seems like to me that I don't
18:40
Speaker 1: know if maybe the person who was holding them hostage
18:43
Speaker 1: told Charles to answer the phone and say that everything
18:45
Speaker 1: was fine, and then just thought Charles was on there
18:47
Speaker 1: too long, so he decided to make him hang up,
18:50
Speaker 1: or if Charles was just so desperate that he answered
18:53
Speaker 1: the phone because you wanted to tell someone to give help,
18:55
Speaker 1: but then someone came over and hit him. So it
18:59
Speaker 1: turned out that shortly after this call took place, three
19:02
Speaker 1: separate eye witnesses will recall seeing Vernon driving his fair
19:05
Speaker 1: Lane through the area with Charles and the passenger seat.
19:08
Speaker 1: But what was unusual is that each of these witnesses
19:11
Speaker 1: reported seeing an unidentified man and woman in the back seat.
19:15
Speaker 1: The woman appeared to be in her fifties early sixties,
19:18
Speaker 1: and the man was described as being a white male
19:20
Speaker 1: between the age of forty and fifty who they said
19:23
Speaker 1: had a thin build and will wrap around sunglasses and
19:26
Speaker 1: a dark blue suit with pinstripes. The first sighting took
19:30
Speaker 1: place at around five forty five pm from a woman
19:33
Speaker 1: who said that the fair Lane was heading north on
19:35
Speaker 1: North Carolina Highway, not one ninety one, and this would
19:38
Speaker 1: have been about fifteen minutes after the phone call from
19:41
Speaker 1: Sue Nichols. And the next two sightings are particularly interesting
19:45
Speaker 1: because they were from eyewitnesses who knew both Vernon and
19:48
Speaker 1: Charles personally. One of them took place at six PM,
19:52
Speaker 1: when the fair Lane was seen on Evans Road by
19:54
Speaker 1: a man named Brownie Holyfield, who said that it was
19:58
Speaker 1: hitting in the direction of a place called a Creek Road,
20:01
Speaker 1: and since the road was very narrow and the two
20:03
Speaker 1: cars couldn't travel on it side by side, holy Field
20:07
Speaker 1: pulled over and waved for them to pass. And he
20:09
Speaker 1: said that he waved at Vernon Charles, but for some
20:13
Speaker 1: reason they did not acknowledge him or even look at him,
20:15
Speaker 1: which he said was very out of character because they
20:18
Speaker 1: were known for being very friendly and outgoing. So he
20:21
Speaker 1: kind of in retrospect wondered if maybe the person in
20:23
Speaker 1: the back seat had a gun on on them or something.
20:26
Speaker 1: And the second witness was another guy named Calvert Hunt Junior,
20:30
Speaker 1: who was a part time employee at Charles's store, the
20:32
Speaker 1: Music Tempo Shop, who said that he passed by the
20:35
Speaker 1: fair Lane on Little River Road at six point thirty.
20:38
Speaker 1: So when you look at the timeline, it seems obvious
20:41
Speaker 1: that right after that call took place, someone forced Verndon
20:44
Speaker 1: and Charles to leave the residence in the car under
20:47
Speaker 1: duress and made them drive out to this remote area.
20:52
Speaker 2: That is so chilling to think, like we've all seen
20:55
Speaker 2: these scenes in movies where somebody is passing in a
20:59
Speaker 2: vehicle and see somebody that they know and that person
21:02
Speaker 2: doesn't wave, and it's obvious that they're under dress, they've
21:05
Speaker 2: been held hostage or kidnapped, and somebody has a weapon
21:09
Speaker 2: on them. But to experience that yourself, when you're passing
21:13
Speaker 2: somebody that you know, people that are outgoing, gregarious, they're
21:17
Speaker 2: very social, and they're going to acknowledge your presence, especially
21:21
Speaker 2: if you're trying to initiate contact with them by waving,
21:24
Speaker 2: and then they're not even looking at you, they're looking
21:28
Speaker 2: straight ahead. I can't imagine how that would hit you,
21:32
Speaker 2: like right in the gut. You would just feel that
21:35
Speaker 2: something is off or that something is wrong, and not
21:38
Speaker 2: enough necessarily that you'd go and call the cops, but
21:41
Speaker 2: I'm sure it would be a feeling that would have
21:43
Speaker 2: unsettled that individual all day.
21:45
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Like I've seen this on shows like Unsolved Mysteries,
21:49
Speaker 1: where someone will be a friend of the victims and
21:51
Speaker 1: say that, oh yeah, I saw them in a public
21:53
Speaker 1: place with someone else and they didn't wave at me,
21:55
Speaker 1: which is very out of character because they're usually very friendly.
21:58
Speaker 1: And then in retrospect to thinking, oh, oh, they were
22:00
Speaker 1: probably with someone who was under dress, and maybe their
22:03
Speaker 1: lives were in danger. And I think all these witnesses
22:05
Speaker 1: probably thought that once they found out that Vernon and
22:08
Speaker 1: Charles got murdered, thinking that, oh, my god, I wish
22:10
Speaker 1: I had done something more. I wish maybe I had
22:12
Speaker 1: followed after the car or called the police or something,
22:15
Speaker 1: because they were on the verge of being killed. But
22:17
Speaker 1: at the time, you're just going to assume it's something
22:19
Speaker 1: mundane and you don't want to cause some trouble by
22:22
Speaker 1: automatically assuming that there's other people in the car who
22:25
Speaker 1: might be holding a gun on them. So you can
22:27
Speaker 1: only imagine how haunting that would be for someone who's
22:29
Speaker 1: experienced that.
22:31
Speaker 2: And can you imagine too, You're going through in your
22:33
Speaker 2: head of Okay, I'm going to call the police. What
22:35
Speaker 2: do I say. I drove past these two people that
22:38
Speaker 2: I know, and they didn't acknowledge me, they didn't wave
22:42
Speaker 2: at me. There was somebody in the backseat. Did you
22:44
Speaker 2: see a gun? No, I didn't see a gun. So basically,
22:48
Speaker 2: what you're telling me is you drove past two people
22:50
Speaker 2: and they didn't wave at you, and the person's gonna
22:53
Speaker 2: say yes, and so you're going to feel a little
22:56
Speaker 2: bit absurd, But I think you just could feel that
22:58
Speaker 2: with every fiber of being on a cellular level that
23:02
Speaker 2: something is wrong. But being able to turn that into
23:04
Speaker 2: something tangible that the police can work with is a
23:07
Speaker 2: whole different story.
23:09
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Like we've seen in this case that even
23:11
Speaker 1: after Vernon and Charles went missing, they could barely get
23:13
Speaker 1: the police to do anything. So I can only imagine
23:15
Speaker 1: that they're not going to take it seriously when they say, oh,
23:17
Speaker 1: I saw my friend and he didn't wave at me.
23:19
Speaker 1: He must be in danger. So there's nothing that these
23:22
Speaker 1: witnesses could have done, but I can still imagine that
23:25
Speaker 1: they felt haunted and guilty for not doing more. So
23:29
Speaker 1: Vernon and Charles remain missing for five days, but finally,
23:32
Speaker 1: on the late afternoon of Friday, July the twenty second,
23:35
Speaker 1: a pair of workers were clearing brush on a dirt
23:37
Speaker 1: trail in an isolated area located near a Lake Summit
23:41
Speaker 1: off North Lake Summit Road when they came across the
23:44
Speaker 1: decomposing bodies of Vernon and Charles. They had both been
23:48
Speaker 1: bludgeoned with a blunt instrument, crushing their skulls, and an
23:51
Speaker 1: eighteen inch piece of scrap iron, which may have been
23:54
Speaker 1: the murder weapon, was placed across Vernon's neck, and Charles's
23:58
Speaker 1: crutches were lying over his torso in the shape of
24:01
Speaker 1: a cross. And people still don't know if this was
24:03
Speaker 1: unintentional or if someone made a calculated effort to make
24:07
Speaker 1: their crutches look like a cross to make some sort
24:09
Speaker 1: of symbolic crime scene. And because of the decomposition, they
24:13
Speaker 1: were unrecognizable at first, but once they were identified when
24:16
Speaker 1: the wallets were pulled out and they looked at their names,
24:19
Speaker 1: and it turned out that money was missing from both
24:22
Speaker 1: of their wallets, so it appeared that whoever killed them
24:25
Speaker 1: also robbed them. And this location was about eight miles
24:28
Speaker 1: from south of Hendersonville and six miles away from the
24:31
Speaker 1: spot where Vernon's abandoned fairline had been found, and it
24:34
Speaker 1: was estimated that the victims had been lying dead at
24:37
Speaker 1: this location since July to seventeenth, the same day they
24:40
Speaker 1: went missing, So it seems very likely that this murder
24:43
Speaker 1: took place a very short time after these witnesses saw them.
24:47
Speaker 2: I can't imagine how that would feel for the witnesses,
24:50
Speaker 2: validating in the sense that you felt something was wrong
24:53
Speaker 2: but haunting in the sense that you weren't able to
24:57
Speaker 2: do anything about it. You knew on a level that
25:00
Speaker 2: something really nefarious was going on, but you've got this
25:05
Speaker 2: inability to be able to do anything and get the
25:08
Speaker 2: right attention or eyeballs on the situation or on the case, because,
25:12
Speaker 2: like you just pointed out, when they were missing, the
25:15
Speaker 2: police didn't even take it seriously, so the eyewitnesses wouldn't
25:18
Speaker 2: have been able to inspire fear in the police so
25:21
Speaker 2: that they would start to act and look for them,
25:23
Speaker 2: because these two guys didn't waive or acknowledge them when
25:26
Speaker 2: they were in the vehicle.
25:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even if they did contact the police, it
25:30
Speaker 1: probably would have been too late because obviously there were
25:32
Speaker 1: no cell phones. They would have had to drive to
25:34
Speaker 1: an area to find a phone. And I think because
25:37
Speaker 1: they were murdered a very short time after these sightings
25:39
Speaker 1: took place, they would have already been dead before anyone
25:42
Speaker 1: got in touch with the police. So it was sadly unavoidable.
25:45
Speaker 1: But I can still imagine that these witnesses were haunted
25:48
Speaker 1: by this. And what made the crime scene so bizarre
25:52
Speaker 1: is that they also found the decomposing body of a
25:54
Speaker 1: woman at the scene, and it appeared that all three
25:56
Speaker 1: victims had been arranged in a crude semi circle like
26:00
Speaker 1: Vernon and Charles. The woman had been bludgeoned with a
26:03
Speaker 1: blunt instrument and her left wrist and her elbow was
26:06
Speaker 1: broken as they speculated that she tried to use her
26:08
Speaker 1: arm to block some of the blows that were being
26:11
Speaker 1: used in order to strike her and that's what broke
26:13
Speaker 1: her wrist in her elbow. It also turned out that
26:15
Speaker 1: Charles had eighteen puncture wounds on the left side of
26:18
Speaker 1: his neck and three on the surface of his chest,
26:21
Speaker 1: and the woman had seventeen puncture wounds on her breasts
26:24
Speaker 1: and her abdomen. There was also an empty whiskey bottle
26:27
Speaker 1: resting on a scarf on top of her neck, and
26:30
Speaker 1: the woman's bra had been removed and was found nearby,
26:33
Speaker 1: and her pants were pulled down. And this is the
26:35
Speaker 1: worst detail about the scene. But I mentioned that when
26:38
Speaker 1: Vernon's car was found, there was a bumper jack in
26:41
Speaker 1: there that was missing its shaft, and it turned out
26:44
Speaker 1: that this woman had been sexually assaulted and the shaft
26:46
Speaker 1: was still inside her vagina.
26:50
Speaker 2: Ooh, okay, that is terrific. So there's a whole sexual
26:56
Speaker 2: component to this, well, at least with louise murder, and
27:01
Speaker 2: so was she a bystander and the perpetrator just took
27:07
Speaker 2: advantage of that fact and had this predilection and decided
27:11
Speaker 2: to act out this fantasy whilst killing Vernon and Charles
27:16
Speaker 2: as well. Was this a crime of opportunity or was
27:19
Speaker 2: this planned? And all three of them were the intended
27:23
Speaker 2: victims all along? And I'm so confounded by this because
27:27
Speaker 2: it would take a lot of time and energy to
27:30
Speaker 2: be not only killing three people, but to beat them
27:34
Speaker 2: and then to sexually assault Louise in such It's just
27:40
Speaker 2: so egregious, it's disgusting and it's vile, repugnant. I can't
27:45
Speaker 2: even fathom what was going through this individual's head.
27:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I saw the look on your face when
27:51
Speaker 1: I shared that detail about the shaft. That is one
27:53
Speaker 1: of the most horrific things we've ever talked about in
27:56
Speaker 1: any of our cases. And like you, like I said,
27:59
Speaker 1: like one of the theories push forward is that Vernon
28:01
Speaker 1: and Charles were the target and that Louise was a
28:03
Speaker 1: bystander who was killed because she was in the wrong
28:06
Speaker 1: place at the wrong time. But the fact that someone
28:08
Speaker 1: assaulted her like that, like pretty much shows intense hatred.
28:11
Speaker 1: It makes you think, did this person personally know Louise
28:14
Speaker 1: have a vendetta against her and that's why they decided
28:17
Speaker 1: to kill her and assault her in such a brutal fashion.
28:20
Speaker 1: And I don't know if there's any significance to this,
28:23
Speaker 1: but I find it odd that both Charles and Louise
28:25
Speaker 1: had both seventeen and eighteen puncture wounds, respectively. But as
28:29
Speaker 1: far as I can tell, Vernon didn't have any puncture
28:32
Speaker 1: wounds on his body. He was just bludgeoned to death.
28:34
Speaker 1: So was there a reason why the perpetrator decided to
28:37
Speaker 1: stab those two and that ignored Vernon? Like, there's nothing
28:39
Speaker 1: about this crime scene which makes sense. I'd love to
28:41
Speaker 1: see a criminal profile or go over this because I
28:44
Speaker 1: can't imagine what conclusions they would reach.
28:47
Speaker 2: And like what kind of puncture wounds were these, like
28:50
Speaker 2: hypodermic needle puncture wounds. Were they from a small knife
28:54
Speaker 2: or were they from a screwdriver?
28:57
Speaker 1: I don't think they were able to determine that. I
28:59
Speaker 1: don't think they found the murder weapon at the scene,
29:01
Speaker 1: Like they found a piece of scrap iron which was
29:03
Speaker 1: likely used to bludgeon them to death, but I don't
29:06
Speaker 1: know what was used to actually make these puncture wounds.
29:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just so strange, especially because it seems as
29:14
Speaker 2: though the punctures were very much focused on Charles and Louise.
29:20
Speaker 2: And to what end was this Because we know with
29:24
Speaker 2: stabbing sometimes that a knife can be used as like
29:27
Speaker 2: a substitution for a penis, and maybe this individual had
29:31
Speaker 2: issues with the rectile dysfunction, hence the way that he
29:35
Speaker 2: chose to sexually assault Louise, and that could be something
29:39
Speaker 2: to do with these puncture wounds as well, if he's
29:42
Speaker 2: unable to perform sexually. It's just a thought, but it's
29:46
Speaker 2: a very odd thing, and it feels like that takes
29:49
Speaker 2: a lot of time and effort to do that. The
29:53
Speaker 2: way that he chose to sexually assault Louise and then
29:57
Speaker 2: all of these different puncture wounds on both her and Charles.
30:00
Speaker 2: This doesn't seem just from the outset, like this individual
30:04
Speaker 2: was in a hurry, and it seems both organized and
30:08
Speaker 2: chaotic at the same time.
30:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I'm thinking this person was probably with Vernon
30:14
Speaker 1: and Charles at their residence when they were under duress,
30:17
Speaker 1: but decided that they wanted this to be a more
30:19
Speaker 1: protracted murder and is likely why they drove all the
30:22
Speaker 1: victims out to this remote area. And that's a good
30:25
Speaker 1: point about maybe the perpetrator not being able to perform sexually,
30:28
Speaker 1: because it's now been reported that any seamen was found
30:31
Speaker 1: at the scenes, so I don't think he ejaculated and
30:33
Speaker 1: probably used the shaft as his own form of sexual assault.
30:39
Speaker 1: So obviously it seemed likely that this was the woman
30:42
Speaker 1: who had been seen in the backseat of a Vernon's
30:45
Speaker 1: car by all the eyewitnesses, but no one could figure
30:48
Speaker 1: out how she fit into the whole thing. They were
30:50
Speaker 1: able to identify her by looking at her driver's license,
30:53
Speaker 1: which she had with her, and what's interesting is that
30:55
Speaker 1: the driver's license said her name was Luis Davis Shoemate
30:58
Speaker 1: and that her birth year was nineteen eleven, but it
31:01
Speaker 1: turned out that her real birth date was August the
31:03
Speaker 1: twenty first, nineteen eighty four, which would would have made
31:06
Speaker 1: her sixty one years old at the time of the murder.
31:09
Speaker 1: And so for whatever reason, I think she was able
31:11
Speaker 1: to get a driver's license where she was pretending to
31:13
Speaker 1: be seven years younger than she really was, so she
31:17
Speaker 1: had originally been born under the name Opal Louise Davis
31:20
Speaker 1: and got married to a man named Azel Francis Shoemate
31:24
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty three, but even though they later divorced,
31:27
Speaker 1: she continued to use both her maiden and married surnames,
31:30
Speaker 1: which is why she went under Louis Davis Shoemate. She
31:33
Speaker 1: was born in Asheville, moved around a lot and lived
31:36
Speaker 1: in a number of different states, but at this particular point,
31:39
Speaker 1: she had moved back to Ashville and got a job
31:41
Speaker 1: at a company called Tailor Instruments Companies, and Louis was
31:45
Speaker 1: known for being a very private and reclusive person, and
31:48
Speaker 1: her coworkers would describe her as someone who was difficult
31:51
Speaker 1: to get along with. This is not one of those
31:53
Speaker 1: true crime stories where they talk about a victim saying
31:56
Speaker 1: that they were the type of person who lit up
31:58
Speaker 1: a room, because most of the people who knew Louise
32:00
Speaker 1: did not have nice things to say about her, because
32:03
Speaker 1: she was known for having very racist views and not
32:05
Speaker 1: afraid to share them. Because they had recently started integration
32:09
Speaker 1: in the area and she had openly expressed her dislike
32:12
Speaker 1: for it. But as far as anyone can tell, she
32:15
Speaker 1: had no known connection to Vernon and Charles, and obviously,
32:18
Speaker 1: since she was known for having racist views, I don't
32:21
Speaker 1: think she would be friends with a pair of gay people.
32:23
Speaker 1: So it seemed very unlikely that there were friends, and
32:27
Speaker 1: no one could figure out why she was found alongside
32:29
Speaker 1: Vernon and Charles.
32:31
Speaker 2: What if Louise was part of the crime to begin with?
32:37
Speaker 2: What if she, like I mentioned, what if this individual
32:40
Speaker 2: had a partner and that partner was a woman. We
32:43
Speaker 2: saw the lipstick on the cigarette, So what if she
32:46
Speaker 2: started off like she's very secretive. She's not known to
32:50
Speaker 2: be the most agreeable or light hearted person. So what
32:55
Speaker 2: if she's tangled up with some man who decides to
32:59
Speaker 2: commit this crime, whether he said it's murder or he's
33:02
Speaker 2: going to rob Vernon and Charles and says it's a
33:05
Speaker 2: couple of gay men. And since we know Louise holds
33:07
Speaker 2: incredibly racist views that, like you said, there's a pretty
33:11
Speaker 2: high probability that she's going to also be anti gay
33:15
Speaker 2: with her views. So Charles and Vernon wouldn't be guys
33:21
Speaker 2: that she would be seen hanging out with. I would
33:23
Speaker 2: guess based on what you said, So I would think
33:26
Speaker 2: it would be more likely that she could somehow be
33:29
Speaker 2: entangled with a man who would want to commit some
33:33
Speaker 2: crime against them, and maybe she didn't agree with murder.
33:36
Speaker 2: Maybe they were just supposed to be robbed, and this
33:38
Speaker 2: guy went totally left field with the way that he
33:41
Speaker 2: was executing his crime, and that caused him to then
33:46
Speaker 2: have to eliminate Louise as well, and hence the anger
33:49
Speaker 2: towards Louise if she didn't follow or hold up her
33:53
Speaker 2: end of what he believed that she was supposed to
33:56
Speaker 2: be doing in helping to facilitate this crime, and she
33:59
Speaker 2: ended up up becoming a problem that could explain some
34:03
Speaker 2: of the puncture wounds and the anger and maybe why
34:06
Speaker 2: he felt the need to in the middle of this
34:09
Speaker 2: double murder murder her as well and then rape her
34:13
Speaker 2: with an instrument.
34:15
Speaker 1: Well, this theory was pushed forward by investigators back at
34:18
Speaker 1: the time, and there's some pieces of evidence which could
34:21
Speaker 1: support it, but there are other pieces of evidence which
34:23
Speaker 1: go against it. The last time Luise was confirmed to
34:27
Speaker 1: be alive was when she was seen leaving her apartment
34:29
Speaker 1: at around four thirty pm on July to seventeenth, and
34:32
Speaker 1: we know that Asheville is twenty five miles from Hendersonville,
34:36
Speaker 1: and that those phone calls that took place to the
34:38
Speaker 1: residents took place at five point thirty, so technically she
34:41
Speaker 1: could have driven there and was present with her male
34:44
Speaker 1: partner holding Charles and Vernon hostage, and then after that
34:48
Speaker 1: phone call decided to take them out to this remote area,
34:51
Speaker 1: and then the male person, for whatever reason, decided to
34:54
Speaker 1: double cross Louise, sexually assault her, and then murder her
34:57
Speaker 1: in an equally brutal fashion. The the big hole in
35:00
Speaker 1: that theory is that Louise, in a odd coincidence, actually
35:03
Speaker 1: drove the same type of car as Vernon. She also
35:06
Speaker 1: drove a blue nineteen sixty two Ford fair Lane, and
35:10
Speaker 1: while Louise was never officially reported missing, it turned out
35:13
Speaker 1: that the fair Lane was found abandoned in a remote
35:15
Speaker 1: area on July to nineteenth, which was a couple of
35:19
Speaker 1: days before the bodies were discovered, and this place was
35:22
Speaker 1: about fourteen miles away from the murder scene, and the
35:26
Speaker 1: vehicle was discovered at the end of an old paved
35:28
Speaker 1: road off Highway one ninety one. But what was particularly
35:32
Speaker 1: odd is that the keys were in the ignition, the
35:34
Speaker 1: windows were rolled down, and the doors were unlocked, and
35:37
Speaker 1: Louise's handbag was found hanging on the door handle, and
35:41
Speaker 1: the only item missing from the handbag was a change
35:44
Speaker 1: purse which was found near her body, but it had
35:46
Speaker 1: been emptied out of the money, there were only like
35:48
Speaker 1: sixteen cents inside. And I know that one of the
35:51
Speaker 1: investigators at the time maybe pushed forward the idea that Louise,
35:55
Speaker 1: when she left Asheville met her male partner at this area,
35:58
Speaker 1: just left her car there and then they went up
36:01
Speaker 1: to Vernon's residence in a completely different vehicle. But the
36:04
Speaker 1: big hole in that theory is that if Louise was
36:07
Speaker 1: involved in the crime, why would she leave her keys
36:09
Speaker 1: in the edition, Why would she leave the doors unlocked,
36:11
Speaker 1: Why would she leave her handbag behind in her car?
36:14
Speaker 1: So the evidence did kind of point to that she
36:16
Speaker 1: was out there and then was abducted against her will,
36:19
Speaker 1: and for whatever reason, was in the same car as
36:22
Speaker 1: Charles and Vernon before they were taken to the spot
36:25
Speaker 1: where they were murdered.
36:27
Speaker 2: This is such a confusing case. Trying to figure out
36:30
Speaker 2: what the connection is between Charles, Vernon and Louise is
36:34
Speaker 2: literally confounding, because since all of these years have gone by,
36:39
Speaker 2: it's been like what.
36:40
Speaker 1: Sixty sixty years.
36:43
Speaker 2: That's wild sixty years. We still don't know how this
36:47
Speaker 2: is all connected and why the perpetrator chose to do
36:50
Speaker 2: it in this manner. It feels so confusing, and like
36:54
Speaker 2: you said, I just want to echo your sentiments from
36:56
Speaker 2: earlier that I would love to see a criminal profiler
36:59
Speaker 2: take a look at the scene of this crime and
37:02
Speaker 2: to say what type of person would have done this,
37:05
Speaker 2: what type of background did they have, what type of
37:07
Speaker 2: relationship to the victims did this individual have, and did
37:11
Speaker 2: it mean anything that Vernon had no puncture wounds, but
37:14
Speaker 2: yet Louise and Charles each had a considerable amount. And
37:19
Speaker 2: then the rape of Louise that was done and that
37:22
Speaker 2: tool being left inside of her is just so horrific,
37:27
Speaker 2: and then the cars being disposed of separately. It all
37:31
Speaker 2: feels so odd and like I can't quite put my
37:34
Speaker 2: finger on it. So I would love to hear somebody
37:38
Speaker 2: who really knows what they're talking about with regards to
37:40
Speaker 2: criminal profiling tell us what this scene means and who
37:44
Speaker 2: this perpetrator is.
37:46
Speaker 1: Oh, definitely, Like, I don't think the FBI's criminal profiling
37:49
Speaker 1: things started for a couple more decades after this, so
37:52
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have existed back in nineteen sixty six, and
37:54
Speaker 1: this isn't a particularly well known case. It's only really
37:57
Speaker 1: known in North Carolina, so it hasn't got a lot
38:00
Speaker 1: of national coverage. And I remember, the main reason I
38:03
Speaker 1: covered this is because I went on a podcasting retreat
38:05
Speaker 1: to Ashville two years ago, and I always liked to
38:07
Speaker 1: do cases from the same area when I go to
38:10
Speaker 1: these events on the same week, So I was just
38:12
Speaker 1: looking for random Ashville cases and I came across this one,
38:15
Speaker 1: and it's like, WHOA, this is crazy, this is blowing
38:18
Speaker 1: my mind. Why has no one covered this before? And
38:20
Speaker 1: that's why I did it. And I still can't come
38:22
Speaker 1: up with a theory that makes one hundred percent complete sense.
38:26
Speaker 1: So of course, the alternate theory is that perhaps the
38:29
Speaker 1: perpetrator kidnapped Vernon and Charles from their residence, drove them
38:33
Speaker 1: out to a remote area, and Vernon's car, but then
38:36
Speaker 1: they just happened to stumble across Louise, and because she
38:39
Speaker 1: was a witness, the perpetrator kidnapped her as well and
38:42
Speaker 1: then forced them to drive to a completely different area
38:45
Speaker 1: where all three of them were murdered. So some of
38:48
Speaker 1: Luisa's co workers said that she was known for some
38:50
Speaker 1: times liking to go out to remote areas to pick
38:53
Speaker 1: blackberries from some bushes in a spot located near Highway
38:57
Speaker 1: one ninety one. So maybe like this perpetrator like drove
39:01
Speaker 1: Vernon and Charles out there, was planning to kill them,
39:03
Speaker 1: saw Louise and then abducted all three of them. And
39:07
Speaker 1: I know that some of the earliest reporting in the
39:09
Speaker 1: newspapers at the time actually did say that some blackberries
39:12
Speaker 1: had been found in Louise's abandoned car, but the sheriff
39:16
Speaker 1: actually had to put the caabasha on that and say, no,
39:18
Speaker 1: this is inaccurate. There are no blackberries in this particular area.
39:22
Speaker 1: So this is just misinformation. It's all pure speculation. So really,
39:27
Speaker 1: if Louise did go out there, we have no idea why.
39:30
Speaker 1: And so it's another thing where you're trying to figure
39:32
Speaker 1: out how did things go from point A to point B?
39:35
Speaker 1: Like why were these two cars found in separate areas?
39:38
Speaker 1: And if Vernon and Charles were kidnapped from the residents,
39:41
Speaker 1: how did they pick up Louise at any point?
39:44
Speaker 2: And to me, it makes sense that if she was
39:46
Speaker 2: looking for blackberries and that's where the killers stumbled upon
39:51
Speaker 2: her that those blackberries wouldn't then make it back to
39:53
Speaker 2: her vehicle, because if the blackberries made it back to
39:56
Speaker 2: her vehicle, then you would think that she would be
39:58
Speaker 2: ready to leave, and she would have like left safely.
40:01
Speaker 2: But it would make more sense if you didn't find
40:04
Speaker 2: any berries. So I can see how they're reporting At
40:07
Speaker 2: the time, they could maybe conflate that detail, either by
40:10
Speaker 2: accident or on purpose, because a lot of times it
40:13
Speaker 2: was the sensationalism of a story, and something like this
40:17
Speaker 2: would sell papers, especially when you add a detail about
40:21
Speaker 2: the blackberries. It just gives people something tangible to hold
40:25
Speaker 2: on to.
40:26
Speaker 1: I think. So, yeah, like they were trying to come
40:28
Speaker 1: up with a theory that fit all the facts, but
40:30
Speaker 1: unfortunately it didn't. And the thing I don't understand is
40:33
Speaker 1: if this theory is correct that the killer originally wanted
40:36
Speaker 1: to take Charles and Vernon out to this area to
40:38
Speaker 1: kill them, why would they bother kidnappling Louise, Like why
40:41
Speaker 1: not kill all three of them at that exact spot
40:44
Speaker 1: Because the area they were found was fourteen miles away
40:47
Speaker 1: from the spot where Luis's car was abandoned, So why
40:50
Speaker 1: go to the risk of like driving them all that
40:52
Speaker 1: distance because they were seen together in the car by
40:55
Speaker 1: a number of different eyewitnesses, So that theory doesn't make
40:58
Speaker 1: one hundred percent complete sense as well, because I just
41:00
Speaker 1: don't know why they would kill Vernon, Charles, and Louise
41:03
Speaker 1: at that location.
41:04
Speaker 2: Maybe the killer, maybe the location where they were killed
41:09
Speaker 2: held some significance to the killer, and we're just not
41:12
Speaker 2: one hundred percent sure what that significance is. And so
41:16
Speaker 2: there was something potentially like almost like ritualistic about needing
41:21
Speaker 2: to commit the murders there.
41:23
Speaker 1: It is true, yeah, because I talked about how Charles's
41:26
Speaker 1: cross was found, Charles's crutches were found in the shape
41:28
Speaker 1: of a cross, and that the bodies were arranged in
41:31
Speaker 1: a crude semi circle. So this could have been some
41:33
Speaker 1: sort of symbolic crime. And maybe they chose that location
41:37
Speaker 1: for reasons that are known only to them. And unfortunately,
41:39
Speaker 1: because we don't know the identity they killer, we can't
41:42
Speaker 1: find out why they chose the spot. So to make
41:46
Speaker 1: things even weirder, there was an odd discrepancy on the
41:49
Speaker 1: odometer on Vernon's car because two days before he went missing,
41:52
Speaker 1: Vernon had gotten an oil change on his car and
41:55
Speaker 1: the mileage was recorded, but when they found the car
41:59
Speaker 1: a couple days later, it turned out it had been
42:02
Speaker 1: driven two hundred and fifty nine miles before it was abandoned,
42:05
Speaker 1: So even though the car had been driven around a lot,
42:07
Speaker 1: it seems odd that it would have gone two hundred
42:10
Speaker 1: and fifty nine miles, But believe it or not, there's
42:12
Speaker 1: actually ridiculous explanation for this. They didn't find out until
42:15
Speaker 1: I think about a year later, but the police later
42:19
Speaker 1: found out that a young man named Dennis Waters confess
42:22
Speaker 1: that Otto Brown eight to fifteen pm on the evening
42:25
Speaker 1: of July the seventeenth, a couple hours after Vernon and
42:29
Speaker 1: Charles went missing, he and three of his friends came
42:32
Speaker 1: across the abandoned fair Lane on this remote dirt road,
42:34
Speaker 1: and because the keys were still in the ignition, they
42:37
Speaker 1: decided to take the car for a joy ride for
42:39
Speaker 1: several hours, just going throughout the area, and then, because
42:43
Speaker 1: they were courteous car thieves, they actually decided to bring
42:45
Speaker 1: it back to the spot where it was originally found
42:48
Speaker 1: and abandoned it, and that accounted for these additional like
42:51
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty nine miles on the odometer. But
42:54
Speaker 1: they thoroughly investigated Dennis Waters and his friends, and they
42:57
Speaker 1: concluded that, no, they did not have any actually vomit
43:00
Speaker 1: in the murders. They were just bystanders who found the
43:02
Speaker 1: car after it was already abandoned, but they caused a
43:05
Speaker 1: needless complication in the investigation.
43:09
Speaker 2: Well, who says there's no honor among thieves. I've never
43:12
Speaker 2: heard of car thieves who steal a car, take a
43:15
Speaker 2: joy ride for that long, and then decide to be
43:18
Speaker 2: so kind and courteous and conscientious and just bring the
43:23
Speaker 2: car back to exactly where they found it and then
43:26
Speaker 2: later on admit to what they did, so that at
43:29
Speaker 2: least this detail that was obviously incredibly murky and confusing
43:34
Speaker 2: to investigators was able to be cleared up.
43:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I can understand the police not
43:40
Speaker 1: believing this story, saying that you brought the car back
43:42
Speaker 1: to the spot where you found it. But I guess
43:44
Speaker 1: car thieves were a lot more courteous during the nineteen
43:46
Speaker 1: sixties or something like that. And I guess because they
43:49
Speaker 1: were just young punks, young teenagers, they realized, no, these
43:52
Speaker 1: guys don't seem like they're capable of such an horrific
43:55
Speaker 1: triple homicide like that, So they were cleared of any
43:57
Speaker 1: involvement and trying to figure things out. Investigators tried to
44:02
Speaker 1: see if there was any conclusive evidence that Louise and
44:05
Speaker 1: Vernon actually knew each other, and there were some hints
44:08
Speaker 1: that maybe they crossed pass but they just were ever
44:10
Speaker 1: able to prove it. I know that Louise, like I
44:13
Speaker 1: said that Louise and Vernon both drove nineteen sixty two
44:16
Speaker 1: Ford Fair Lanes, and when Louise originally purchased her car,
44:20
Speaker 1: she apparently told one of her relatives that she quote
44:22
Speaker 1: unquote had a very good friend who had a car
44:25
Speaker 1: just like it. I know that when Charles was recovering
44:28
Speaker 1: from his broken leg at the hospital in the months
44:31
Speaker 1: prior to his death, a woman reportedly came to visit him,
44:34
Speaker 1: and one hospital employee identified this woman as Louise from
44:38
Speaker 1: a photograph, though once again this was never conclusively proven
44:41
Speaker 1: if it was her. And there was also one witness
44:44
Speaker 1: who recalled seeing Louise at a party being held by
44:47
Speaker 1: Vernon and Charles at George Vanderbilt Hotel in Asheville during
44:51
Speaker 1: the summer of nineteen sixty five and during the spring
44:53
Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty six. Another witness said that she saw
44:57
Speaker 1: Charles's two aunts drinking wine with another woman in the
45:00
Speaker 1: back of the Tempo music shop, and Charles introduced this
45:03
Speaker 1: woman as his quote unquote foster or aunt, Louise from Ashville.
45:08
Speaker 1: I mean, that could be the biggest piece of evidence
45:10
Speaker 1: that Louise and Charles knew each other. But I find
45:12
Speaker 1: this story strange because if Charles's two biological ants were there,
45:16
Speaker 1: couldn't the police have asked them if they knew Louise,
45:19
Speaker 1: And as far as I can tell, I don't think
45:21
Speaker 1: that they ever confirmed that they were acquainted with hers.
45:24
Speaker 1: So I wonder if, like maybe this witness was mistaken.
45:28
Speaker 2: I feel like they must be mistaken, because that is
45:31
Speaker 2: pretty simple police work, where you could track down the
45:34
Speaker 2: biological ants and ask about this Louise from Ashville. It's
45:39
Speaker 2: a pretty simple ask, and then you're able to say, okay,
45:43
Speaker 2: well you can eliminate it as being Louise Davis Shuemate.
45:46
Speaker 2: But it just becomes so convoluted and confusing when you're
45:50
Speaker 2: introducing somebody at this stage in the investigation whose name
45:55
Speaker 2: is Louise and they're this like foster aunt. I'm I
46:00
Speaker 2: just have to believe that they the investigators looked into
46:03
Speaker 2: this and it went nowhere. Because are we to believe
46:06
Speaker 2: that this same Louise that we've heard of Davis Shuemate
46:10
Speaker 2: would be like a foster aunt or like a surrogate aunt.
46:13
Speaker 1: For Charles Charles?
46:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, for Charles, given that we know that Charles was
46:20
Speaker 2: pretty openly gay. Or are we just assuming too much
46:24
Speaker 2: in that Louise could potentially hold very racist viewpoints but
46:29
Speaker 2: not have an issue with gay people.
46:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've wondered about that because I forized, because of
46:34
Speaker 1: a racist viewpoints, that she would not be hanging out
46:36
Speaker 1: with a guy like Charles at the Temple Music Shop
46:39
Speaker 1: because he was not hesitant to tell everyone he was gay.
46:41
Speaker 1: But who knows. People are complicated. Maybe she had trouble
46:44
Speaker 1: with black people but didn't have any issues with gay people.
46:48
Speaker 1: But it just sounded like it would have been very
46:50
Speaker 1: out of character for someone like her to be hanging
46:52
Speaker 1: around with this flamboyant gay man drinking wine with his aunts.
46:56
Speaker 1: So that about brings an end to part one of
46:58
Speaker 1: our series about the murders of Burnon Shipment. Charles Glass
47:01
Speaker 1: and Luis Davis Shumemate join us next week as we
47:04
Speaker 1: continue our discussion on Part.
47:06
Speaker 3: Two, Robin, do you want to tell us a little
47:09
Speaker 3: bit about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?
47:11
Speaker 1: Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three
47:14
Speaker 1: years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like
47:17
Speaker 1: early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers
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Speaker 1: and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up
47:24
Speaker 1: with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars
47:26
Speaker 1: tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in
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Speaker 1: which I talk about cases which are not featured on
47:34
Speaker 1: the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon,
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Speaker 1: and if you join our highest tier tier three, the
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Speaker 1: ten dollar tier. One of the features we offer is
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Speaker 1: a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsaved Mysteries,
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47:50
Speaker 1: up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
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Speaker 1: the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about
48:00
Speaker 1: the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very
48:04
Speaker 1: first episode that I did a commentary track over was
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Speaker 1: the episode featuring this case. So if you want to
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48:16
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Speaker 3: so we hope you'll check out those patreons.
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Speaker 2: We'll link them in the show notes.
48:36
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48:55
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