Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Lyrical vs Contemporary 2.0

Transcript

Lyrical vs Contemporary 2.0 · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: One of the longest-running conversations in the competitive dance world continues today with Lyrical vs.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Contemporary 2.0.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't listened to episode 4 of Making the Impact, be sure to head back in time to hear our original conversation about this topic.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Today, we're joined by two incredible dance educators to give even more perspective on two of the most popular styles of dance in the competitive world.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, dance world, and welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's Leslie Mueller for season five.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Season five.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: We're here and we're so excited to be back.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, Courtney, can you believe we've been doing this for like what feels like 1,000 years, but also feels like 10 minutes?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it it's it's crazy.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I can't believe that we started this journey.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: 2019.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: So 2020, 21, 22, 23.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a lifetime, and but also 10 minutes because every every time we do an episode, we learn something new and we, you know, just get more and more educated in this world of dance that we reside in.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm telling you, it's amazing to me what we've been able to accomplish on this podcast and what we've been able to educate to the masses on this podcast.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I I remember I think it was season three brainstorming where you were nervous that we would run out of topics.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was I was like, Leslie, no, we're good.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like we've been proven wrong.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and truly, every year when we sit down in the off season to sit down and schedule the upcoming season, we're like, oh, that one's gonna be really good.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Should we use that this season?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, maybe we should save it for next season.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: And we still have a huge list of topics that we have yet to even touch on, 2.0 topics that we want to tackle.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not because they're not good, it's because they are good.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like nothing's sitting in that brainstorming, you know, bin, like not being considered.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've ever suggested a topic or sent us a topic, you know, via email or Facebook, like it's in there.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're thinking about it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's marinating.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: It may show up, you know, in another season or, you know, as a question on a QA.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: So there, you're right, you're right.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, I have been proven wrong.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's always something to talk about.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what's really cool too, and we can jump in very quickly, is just the reach that we've been able to have and hearing from so many people literally around the world that they heard something on Making the Impact.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they heard our podcast or they liked this or they've implemented this change.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, the education we've been able to provide in topics like we've are going to cover today, our 2.0 Lyrical versus contemporary, you know, that's our most listened to episode from season one.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And we knew we had to revisit it today because it has reached so many people, but there's still people out there it hasn't reached.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so now we have more perspectives, two amazing guests, friends of ours and IDA judges and amazing educators that we're so grateful that are here today to share their their thoughts and their education with everybody.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't wait to dive into it.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've been talking about doing lyrical versus contemporary 2.0 for a while now.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, what better way to kick off season five with this hot topic?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: But for all of our listeners out there, we also launched our season five opener episode.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: So if you haven't given a listen to that, feel free to head over there.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: You'll hear some life updates from Leslie and I, hear about how our summers were, you'll hear some more things about what's to come, maybe a teaser on some of the episodes that are coming in season five.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: So head on over there, give it a listen, and then hit next so you can continue to listen to this one, which is Lyrical versus Contemporary 2.0.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Can't wait to jump in.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: But before we jump into this week's episode, we want to tell you about our sponsors for season five.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And we're so happy to have Apollo performance returning for this season.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: To all my dancers out there, let me tell you a secret.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: I used to have sore feet all the time.
• 4:28
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• 4:33
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• 4:36
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• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: And listen up making the impact fans, but because you're a treasured listener, you get an exclusive 10% off with the code Impact10 in all caps in the promo box at checkout.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And a heads up, they have satisfaction guaranteed with free returns and exchanges.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: So you have nothing to lose but everything to gain.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Head on over to their website now at ApolloPerformance.com to grab your pair of ApolloShocks.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's ApolloPerformance.com.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: A P-O-L-L-A-Performance.com.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: And another one of our sponsors who are back for season five is an organization that is very near and dear to my heart, Young Arts.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Young Arts is an arts organization that supports young artists across 10 different disciplines, including dance.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Their national arts competition is open to artists aged 15 to 18 or currently in grades 10 through 12, where selected winners can receive cash scholarships, mentorships from leaders in the industry, a lifetime of professional support, and the prestigious honor of being a young arts winner.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: Competition finalists in their senior year are further eligible for a nomination as a U.S.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Presidential Scholar in the Arts, one of the nation's highest honors for high school students.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: As a previous Young Arts winner myself, I highly recommend that you check out this fantastic program and opportunity for your dancers.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: It truly is life-changing.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: The deadline to apply for their 2024 National Arts competition is October 13th, 2023.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: Learn more about Young Arts and start your application today by clicking the link in our show notes and visiting youngarts.org slash apply.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Array Dance World, we're so happy to be back over here at Making the Impact.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a great summer, but we are kicking things off with the hottest topic ever, y'all.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: Lyrical versus contemporary 2.0.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Woo! It's back.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's back, and we knew we had to give y'all something hot to start off season five.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: And also, Leslie, I mean, we haven't talked about Lyrical versus Contemporary since season one.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: That was actually season one, episode four, our most popular episode in existence.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: But we knew we needed to bring it back because we're still talking about this over here.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're still here.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that was four years ago.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's in one sense, it's really not that long ago.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's four, it's been four years ago.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: But when you really think about it, the past four years have felt like 10 years with the pandemic and with the competition seasons being, you know, truncated that year, and things have changed.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, you know, we we talked about this when we were populating our season topics, and it just came back up and we said, we gotta do it.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: We we had to bring it back.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And we wanted to bring two brand new perspectives onto the discussion for Lyrical Verse Contemporary this time around.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: And these are two veteran judges on the IDA roster and also veteran podcast guests that have been on many, many previous episodes of Making the Impact, and I'm so excited to welcome them back.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: The very first guest that I'm excited to welcome is a very close friend of mine.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: We enjoyed so much great time together in New York City, but now they no longer live here, and I'm so sad about it.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, both of these guests, I never get to see them anymore because they were both my New Yorker friends, and now they're gone.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: I never see them.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm here today chatting dance with them on the podcast, and I couldn't be happier.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna let y'all know some of the episodes that this fabulous guest has previously been on.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Season one, QA with Courtney.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Season two, episode 51, QA with Courtney.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Season three, episode 87, Stage Presence, Why Performance Matters, and Season 4, Episode 138, How to Brand Yourself as a Dancer.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to welcome back the one, the only Sam Quinn.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_04: Bebe! Thanks for having me.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes! I'm so happy to have you.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always grateful to have you on the podcast.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you have been such a huge supporter of IDA since like very early on in our time.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we're heading into our ninth year at Impact Dance Adjudicators, and I'm just so I'm so happy that you applied, and I'm so grateful that we've had you on the roster for so many years because you are such a spectacular judge, and I just want you to know that you're you're working like crazy throughout this season, and I keep you busy, but it's for a good reason because you're just so good at your job.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for being with us for so many years and also joining us on the podcast so many times.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_04: Of course.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_04: This is my favorite.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_04: And it's always a treat to say that I'm an IDA judge.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I wear the badge with honor.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I have to give you a shout out.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: I got to sit next to Sam a lot of this season because he worked for one of the events that I was director for.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: Finally.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and he really is.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's so good at his job.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Every time I would sit next to him and like critique in my head what I would say, and Sam was like literally saying the things I would say.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, he's so good.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope I hope everybody gets a chance to learn from Sam, whether it's in a studio or at a competition.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_04: Y'all, I'm blushing.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_04: You're so sweet.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: All right, Sam.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you wouldn't mind, like usual, you know, the drill, tell the world a quick little rundown of what you're working on now, what you've worked on in the past, and any career credits you'd like to share.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, sure.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_04: So I grew up in Massachusetts, got my BFA and dance at the University of Arizona.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_04: Some c favorite career highlights.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_04: Radio City Christmas Spectacular with the Roquettes.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: I was not a Roquette, and I'm still upset about it.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: I with a toe-touching teddy bear.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_04: But that was a blast.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_04: Bad Boys of Ballet is always a favorite.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_04: Bunch of regional theater.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_04: I organized the Boys Dance 2 movement that happened.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I am now a publicist.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_04: So still judging and not choreographing and teaching, not so much performing, but I work full-time at a PR agency doing some publicity and public relations, which has been fun.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_04: And it's really interesting because it's still creative, but it plays so well into dance and the competition world because I find that all I talk about from my nine to five into like weekend judging is storytelling.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm so excited to get into this topic today and how to convey your story without words.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_04: So thanks for having me.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: We're so happy to always have you here at Making the Impact.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Our next special guest is a very, very old friend of mine.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: I've known this fabulous person for over 10 years now.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: We've had the pleasure of performing many times together throughout our professional career.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: I even had the opportunity to take a visit to her beautiful little getaway house in Maine, in the wilderness in the middle of nowhere of Maine last summer, and it was the best time ever.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: We just had the most lovely day.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: I want to let everybody know about some of her previous episodes.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Season one, episode 11, taking critical feedback from your judges.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Season two, episode 34, QA with Courtney.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: And season three, episode 108, live from Diva Nationals.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to welcome back Christina Balinski.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, everyone.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, it's so wonderful to be back.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: I just love this podcast.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: I love what you all are doing.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just so great to get to contribute to the voice of this podcast.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you so much.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you are doing so many great things.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I have to just give you a like giant shout out.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: When we were casting this, I literally said, Christina Balinski has to be on this episode.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like I need Christina Bolinski's voice and opinion and perspective and wisdom on this topic because I know you so well as a dancer and you are an everything dancer, but I know that you've heavily studied in modern and heavily, you know, have performed in contemporary styles and lyrical grew up with lyrical.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I felt like that your knowledge that you can bring to this discussion and also being a judge for trillions of years, being on the roster since the first year of IDA, you are an OG.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just knew that you'd be the perfect person for this chat.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I am so grateful that you were available to join us.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you so much, Courtney.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is such a treat.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's been a minute since you've been on the pod.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: So if you wouldn't mind telling the world out there a little bit more about you, where you grew up, what your early years were like, dance credit training, all the things, and what you're working on now.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: So my name is Christina Balinski.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: I am a dancer, choreographer, filmmaker, and small business owner of artists in motion apparel.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: My training, I grew up in Southern New Hampshire and I trained at New Hampshire School of Ballet.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: We were very ballet-heavy technique studio, but also really reveled in lyrical.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: My I um trained at Dean College.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: I went there for two years, got my associate's degree in dance, and went to University of the Arts, where I got my BFA in modern dance performance.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then since then, my career has really been a little bit all over the map in the best way possible.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: I've danced ballet professionally, regional musical theater.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: I was on the first Broadway National Tour of Finding Neverland.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: I was the dance captain and swing of the Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat Tour, choreographed by Andy Blankenbueller, and then have gotten more into TV and film with the Gilded Age and Westworld.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: And right now I'm literally, I've just wrapped working on a dance film commissioned by the city of Cambridge with Boston-based choreographer Naila Randall-Ballinger.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's been a wonderful adventure.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you have truly done so much in your career.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so proud of what you've accomplished and also how many times our paths have crossed professionally.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's just been so much fun to always have like a very close friend by your side on so many jobs.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we've been through so much together.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: Our first tour.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Just the best.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you gave a little plug about Artists in Motion, but can you tell the world a little bit more about what that is and how they can learn more about it?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: So Artist in Motion Apparel is an upcycled clothing brand where I hand silk screen print dancers onto the clothing.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: The clothing's really designed with the dancer's daily life and mind as far as whether they are dancing in the dance studio and want to have something with a personal touch on it or out in the streets and want to share with the world what their passion is in a very fashionable and sustainable way.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you can find artists in motion apparel on our um Instagram.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: We sell everything's one of a kind.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: So it's kind of whatever you see on the page is what is available at the moment, which makes it really fun and exciting that each piece is unique.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: So you can find us at Artist in Motion Apparel.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: That is our handle on Instagram.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Love it.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: And for all of our listeners out there who want to take a peek, we'll have a little that linked in our show notes as well.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I have to say, I have a handful of artists in Motion apparel, awesome threads that I wear.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: I have a jacket.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: I just bought a button-down shirt that's so cute.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Can't wait to wear while I'm judging, and a lot of cute tank tops and sweatshirts.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely go give Artist in Motion a follow and buy some cute dance, dance clothes, y'all.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: All right, everybody.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's time to jump on into this hot topic.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure we have a lot to cover in this next hour.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, they're ready to go.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: They're ready.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I wonder what the best place to start is, friends.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I want to know, first of all, Christina, you mentioned when you were growing up your studio was heavy on the ballet technique, but you reveled in lyrical.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember your first experience with lyrical dance back in a million years ago?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, yes.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: I will never forget when I got my first lyrical solo.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think I was probably eight or nine, and I was just so ecstatic to be able to move on from at that point.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: I was just doing ballet or no, not ballet solos, but uh tap and jazz solos.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I really wanted to get into more of the expressive side of lyrical.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I think I started around eight or nine years old.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: It was one of those things I had seen all of the older girls always doing it, and I would emulate what they were doing in my Nana's living room, and it was just something that I had always admired, a style that I really felt was just such a blast to get to explore the emotions with.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sam, what about you?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember your first lyrical life?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_04: I my biggest regret in life is not being given a Celine Dion or a lyrical solo.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_04: Truly.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I never had a lyrical solo, but we did lyrical groups growing up, and I remember we were going across the floor, and like it was like baby jazz class, and they were like, let's experiment with lyrical.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: And they put on this like big angsty song, and we were just doing drag ball change, drag ball change across the floor.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_04: That was it, just release and then contract over to like in a deep ball change.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember I was giving like the OG cont uh the lyrical face of like just like living my life doing drag ball changes across the stage, and I remember my teacher being like really nice emotion.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, I totally felt it.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: That was my first introduction doing drag ball changes from like in a dance studio across the floor.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I loved it ever since.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I never had a lyrical solo, and I'm still upset about it.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_04: 20%.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: All right, listen, pro I'm a pro-and category.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I am shocked that you didn't have lyrical solo.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: I just feel like that you scream lyrical dance to me.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like I I scream lyrical dance into a microphone.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_04: I never got to like yell with my body and pretend that I am Celine Dion at Caesar's Palace.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_04: So it's going great for me.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: My first memory of wanting to do lyrical was watching the older girls, and they had a dance, a lyrical dance to breathe again by Tony Braxton.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Which is number one, highly inappropriate.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_05: Very.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: But number two, man, she's singing, and you just you feel the drag ball change.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like the drag ball change is exactly what you want to do to that song.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember that I was like nine.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember how young I was, but it was it was something, you know, in the elementary school age range.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, my mother was like, no, you're not dancing to that.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: The the old the 17-year-olds are senior year of high school, all of my friends we demanded, we said, mother, who is my dance teacher, we're dancing to breathe again.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, you don't have to choreograph it.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna choreograph it and we're gonna dance to it.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And like it was a little tragic because we just were living our best, you know, 2003 life um with Tony Braxton.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so angsty.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, lyricals lyrical is life.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Lyrical is life.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: I I always admired the older girls and their lyrical.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think we all can we're all around the same age here.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: And the the interesting thing is is that I feel like that kids now are saying, I admired the older girls and their contemporary.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the opposite.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because lyrical isn't old school, but it feels old school compared to contemporary that exists now.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_04: You see it and it's done correctly, every judge is throwing papers and pens everywhere.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Truly.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like earth shattering.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Can we talk a little bit about that?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, here I wanted to get everybody's sort of picture of what they like, even just hearing you guys all express what lyrical, like you almost you physicalized it, you know, when you when you were talking about it.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want people to hear what that is like in words, um, what you're looking for, because Sam, like you said, you're you're screaming lyrical into the mic, but what are you what else are you screaming?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: What are you asking for?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: What are you hoping for and expecting when you see something on stage that says it's lyrical and you're having to scream about it?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Sam does not scream.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's be real here.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sam is a very well articulated judge.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: Well, if you take the root word of lyrical, the first five letters are lyric.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_04: And what does music have?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_04: Music has lyrics.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_04: To me, lyrical dance is indicative of what the lyrics are telling you to emote to, what you should be feeling, what the story is, and the choreography should match the lyrics that the song or the singer is providing, and you are bringing your own point of view to those lyrics, and you're telling a story about those that song, that piece of music, that whatever, whatever it is.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_04: And oftentimes I find that there's a disconnect between the connection of the dancer's performance to the lyrics, it's a very happy song and they're sad.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_04: It's a very sad song and they're smiling.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's the biggest crescendo of the music and they're on the floor in a static pose.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_04: To me, music uh lyrical is like the perfect blend and marriage of choreography, performance, and music all packaged up in a beautiful bow.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_04: So if Celine Dion is belting near far wherever you are, and you're in a leg hold, like it's a no.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think we should be doing that.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_04: It you need to match the music, you need to bring that story to life.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_04: If she's in this huge, vulnerable state, belting her face off and you're sitting on the floor, to me, that that symbiotic partnership and marriage is not it's not cohesive.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't make sense.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_04: So, in order to make sense of it, it has to work with the music.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_04: The dancer has to know what the song is, it has to be age appropriate because if you're dancing about a breakup and you're six years old, again, we're already setting the dancer up for failure.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_04: So it needs to be an age appropriate story that lyrically matches choreographically.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's all.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Applause, applause, applause.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Christina, anything to add?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, I think it's just what it really comes down to is an expressiveness.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: There's there's a deep connection of the emotions and a range of emotions.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: We start in one place at the beginning of the piece and we end somewhere else.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: We've learned something throughout this piece about this person's struggles or joys or what kind of contradiction they're in.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I think also it's something where I love to see that demonstration of the ballet technique with that added reach, the added fullness of the movement.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: And just like Sam was saying, as that music builds, that means that your movement range builds.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: That means that we're seeing jumps, leaps, beautiful turns, but showing that technique within those moments.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like ballet-driven movement for me, it is it really just screams lyrical.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not, I mean, it very much comes down to how it's choreographed.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, I mean, if you're doing if we're at the crescendo and you're doing something that feels static, that doesn't make sense.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like Sam said, and the same thing applies to like, is a headspring lyrical?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: What about a headspring screams ballet to me?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely nothing.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not saying everything has to be ballet, but I do think it needs to be a nice blend of jazz and ballet.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's like they fluid movement, fluid movement across the stage.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: And controlled.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think of like a beautiful lift to an arabesque into a panche, into a contraction, and a passe, you know, moments like that where you're seeing these nice controlled, sustained movements that are in line with what the music is telling you.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I think to that a point as well, I also think the downside to lyrical is sometimes choreographers and teachers are too, I might get flack for this, but too ambitious with their song choices that their dancers cannot match the level of maximum.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_04: If your dancer isn't this big, strong, almost I want to use the word aggressive because lyrical can be aggressive.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, yeah.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: Whitney Houston, I have nothing, right?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_04: Don't do it.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_04: You're set again, you're setting the dancer up for failure.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_04: Find songs that match their quality, but to their maximum potential and work backwards.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're giving them a number that should be a 40-person lyrical production number, on a stage with staging and lights and pyrotechnics and a raked stage and like solo, it's right on a on a bare stage or on a stage with one person a backdrop that says X dance competition, you know, you have to not want to read your venue also.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great, great, great point with the music choice and the song choice because we we as judges, like we hear those go-to lyrical songs and the the ones that we are all like, yes, oh my gosh, I'm so ready for this.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: But like you said, there are so many times where unfortunately, whether it's a solo or a group, the dancers aren't living up to the expectation of that song.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: You're all and you're I'm not saying you're taking a risk by using that song.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: You just have to know when it's right and appropriate and the time in the dancer's training when they're ready for that song because they might not be ready yet, but you know it's a showstopper and you know it's a hit.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: But just because it's a hit doesn't mean that it's gonna win.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: They have to live up to that.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it sometimes I'm sitting there thinking, like, I see what we were going for and I see the potential, but I think that we should have waited like four more years to let this maturity and this performance really sink in to be able to handle this type of song.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_04: And it's with those songs where I literally lean in more and I'm looking at it with a more critical eye because I know what I want and I know what to expect.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_04: And you've we've seen hundreds of dances to this song, and we know what it can be.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_04: So that's where I, as a judge, lean in more and have a stronger critical eye.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_04: Cause I'm like, all right, five, six, here we go.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so here and this part of the music.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and then I go on my tangent.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_04: But you got it, you got set your dancer up for success.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_04: Please, please, please.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_04: We're rooting for them.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_04: We want them to do well, we want them to live up to the expectations of these songs.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: But well, and like you said, you know, I I love to hear I have nothing.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I love I love that song.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many of these like quintessential songs that we hear that we love that we're excited about.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: However, like Sam said, we have seen 1,000 dances to that song.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's another conversation, but find another piece of music that perhaps we haven't heard because then I don't really have an expectation.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know this song.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm interested.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm like, oh, here's a crescendo I've never heard before.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a piece of, you know, choreography that I've never seen before.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's gonna do you your dancer more of a service, I think, than than, you know, yes, of course, we all want to dance to Salandian, who doesn't?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, there's other things to listen to.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: I would love to also add that because it is lyrical, it does not mean angst.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of times when we're thinking of lyrical, we're thinking of angst.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, angst does require bigger, bolder, more advanced movements that a dancer might not be ready to take on yet.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: However, we can always show the other side of emotion.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: We can always show joy within lyrical, we can always show dreaming, you know, a daydream or various other emotions that can live in a more joyful place rather than in having to be, you know, upset or heartbroken or a feeling of loss.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I honestly I think that would be wonderful to and and it's refreshing for the judges to get to see that kind of performance brought to the competition stage.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like people think that we need to see that to win.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's why they always pick those types of songs or I don't know, maybe the dancers pick, I don't know.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like these days there are so many times I see people saying that dancers are selecting the songs, moms are selecting the songs, or like that's that's okay.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I want a dancer to connect to a solo song in particular, groups.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: It should be the studio owner, the choreographer's choice.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: But solos, sure.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to connect to it.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: But also that's when the teacher with this music discussion, that's when the teacher needs to step in and say, Are you actually ready?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: Can you execute this song?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it might not be the right song, regardless of how connected the dancer is, or regardless of the type of song that it is and the reason why this dancer picked it, the teacher has to know, I'm not really sure if you're ready for this just yet.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: And put this in your back pocket, maybe next year we can tackle it, or whatever it is.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love to see more, more happy, joyful lyrical dances.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that they rarely exist.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: And not just from little kids either.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm always happy to see a somewhere over the rainbow from a seven-year-old.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, please, yes, absolutely do that.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: But as you age, you can also find joy.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think I love that point, Christina.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: And because it's, you know, the world is hard as it is.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's maybe insert some joy and some hope and some dreaming into our already very broken world.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think this is a super I've seen this a bunch of times on like Dance Teacher Network of like, can we like my kids already deal with so much at school, their life, their stress, and then they go into the studio and it's supposed to be this happy, uplifting, joyful experience, and they're dancing about death or something.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_04: Who knows?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_04: All for happy lyrical.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_04: Make me smile, make me cry, and yeah, let's be happy.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_04: Come on, let's do it.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_04: My challenge for the year.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_04: Let's just be happy.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like the scene for me and girls.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_04: Let's go and bake a cake and full of rainbows and everyone just be happy.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_04: It's like me buying the mic.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: Now, while we're on the topic of music for lyrical in particular, I also think that this same thing can apply to contemporary song selection.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think that the contemporary, a lot of people will like classify contemporary as like dark and mysterious, yes, moody.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, that's not necessarily contemporary.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, sure, that can live in the world, but there can be happy contemporary dances, there can be joyful contemporary dances, there can be contemporary dances that show emotion too at the same time.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I mean, I think there should be a story, like something along a storyline or something that you are connecting to with the song.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: But even when we have like these crazy robot sound effects dances that we see 24-7 in the contemporary category, so many times it's just like a deadpan face instead of like understanding who am I in this world?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: Am I a robot?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Am I who who am I?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like what is your character?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: Or am I just told to dance and pose in disjointed ways to a song with accents?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is there needs to be more to it?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's why can people go into contemporary more because they can just kind of put that blank stare on their face and look like intense, where like you have to dig so deep to be a lyrical dancer.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to like have the heart and the passion.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's almost like a cop-out to go into contemporary where it can just kind of like be emotionless sometimes.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely, Courtney.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's such a great point.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I think as well, you know, within contemporary, it can be more of an exploration of movement.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe that is the story.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: The story is you're exploring how you can move, how, what is your range, but it doesn't, it can be that with emotions and feeling.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't have to be that with, like you said, we all we can all picture it in our mind's eye, that serious, um, disconnected look.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: Because that also it doesn't serve you as an artist to be just focusing on that kind of style and that performance quality of being so stern.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, who I love seeing a contemporary piece that's quirky, that you know, is playful and that has a little bit more of that range and is still within that world, still within the vocabulary.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I think we can explore more not only within the movement, but within what we are choosing for songs and choreography within contemporary.
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• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to elaborate more about the vocabulary because I think that's something that people, you know, we talk a lot about music because that's almost, you know, for some people, that's the first thing they think of.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: They think of a song and then we start choreographing the dance.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that's that's perfectly valid.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens when we think about the quality of movement or the vocabulary that we're using and then apply it to a song?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: How does that change what style we might be talking about, or does it?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think I'll start with just what I think of with the vocabulary.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: And when I think of contemporary, I think a meeting of contemporary ballet and a meeting of modern.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: And specifically within modern as well, there's a lot of notes of release technique.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: All of that, the sequential floor work that we see people doing within contemporary stems from release technique.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so I love seeing that.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: I love seeing grounded quality, and like I had said, I love seeing an exploration of movement, um, uh, a sense that you're almost playing with different ways, different pathways.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I think within contemporary, we're thinking more about lines and shapes and the pathways in which we use to get there.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: How can I take a different route within my movement to achieve a line or a shape?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then also using an effusion, it's contemporary because it is of the time.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: So we're infusing what is available within our vocabulary as well, which makes it harder to define.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard to name a shape within contemporary versus lyrical.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Lyrical, we really should be able to, you know, be able to break down each step into a technical term.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: And contemporary, I feel almost as if the goal would be the opposite.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: The goal would be to find something that you've never been to that shape before, which is why, you know, it's it's something for someone who might be a little bit more older, a little bit more experienced, a little bit more colors from the the you know, the paint box to like pull from, you're really taking inspiration from everything.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then I'm forgetting now, sorry, the second part of the question, Leslie.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: What was the second part?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: How does so if you are starting from a movement vocabulary and then applying it to a song, how does that, how does that process change depending on which song you pick?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because we talk a lot about music and how that influences are we looking at lyrical, are we looking at contemporary?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: But if you started with a contemporary movement vocabulary, but you put it to Celine Dion, how how does that world work?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Should it, could it, can it, does it?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so this is what I think.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think that it is possible to do a contemporary piece to a lyrical piece of music.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: I can see that, I can see how you would abstract that, but it has to be crafted by the choreographer.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: However, I don't think that you can do a lyrical solo necessarily to every contemporary song.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a contemporary song can really, if you want to be creative, could be every and any piece of music.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think the range of music selection, if you really wanted to be creative, could be full.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, that just takes some crafting and some imagination and playfulness.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen it done before, songs that you would never imagine being placed in contemporary, and the vocabulary is right on point.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a playfulness with it.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't think it can go the opposite way.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think, you know, you could uh flip that around.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that's a one way, you know, for you to make that distinction as you're kind of going along in your process of crafting the solo.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it just helps to remember, just as a general statement, of thinking about that before you even begin the choreography process.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: Before you even step into the studio, you know, if we're designing a dance for the dance competition stage, dance competitions have categories that we need to be focusing on.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: That there's a rubric for, you know, a general rubric for us to be looking at and deciphering as judges.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it it helps and would serve everyone if we just kind of focus on what is the goal of the technique that I am showcasing within this piece.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: I think if we started a little bit sooner, rather than oh, I choreographed this piece, I like the song, I don't know where it fits in.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think there would be less of that if it was thought of from moment one.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: That is Sam.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Any thought, any thoughts to add?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Everything, those are I saw you nodding.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_04: I know my neck is sore from nodding.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, yes, yes, yes.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_04: No, I totally agree with everything that Christine is saying.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_04: I think for me, what makes for a super interesting contemporary piece is not the what, but the how.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_04: You're hitting all these pictures, but how are you getting there?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_04: What is the journey?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_04: I think contemporary is all about the transitions and how you're moving from point A to point Z throughout the entire piece, but the journey that you're getting.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_04: So point A should not look the same as point Z.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_04: And again, that goes back to dynamics and textures and colors and whatever it is.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_04: But I think the journey of how you're moving from shape to shape is a differentiator.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_04: And the other thing I'll say is I think as judges, so often, so many kids have two to three solos and they're doing the same solo just in a different color costume to a different piece of music, but it's the same elements choreographically.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_04: So my challenge for yeah.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_04: So my challenge for choreographers is if you're if you're doing a you know double solo year for a student, they need to be polar opposite.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_04: Because I'm gonna be judging your second solo just even harder than your first one if you're doing the same thing.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what I'm gonna talk about is I don't want to see you doing two lyrical solos, but show me that you can go on point.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_04: Show me you can tap, show me you can sing, do a song and dance.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: Who knows?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: But like a jazz and a contemporary, something that is so contrasting to show us your range as an artist, where it's not just doing tilts and turns in second.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_04: And for me, I'm forever and always I'll die on the grave.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_04: No dance requires turns in second.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_04: I hate them, I hate them, I don't like them.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, what about lyrical dances?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: Are you against them in there?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_04: I love a classic fute.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_04: Show me the technique.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you want a fuete over a turn in Alice for a hold in that releve.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_04: Show me the fute of the leg.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: But you're not mad at a turn sequence.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: You just don't want it to be the turns in Alice Khan.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: You want it to be a fuette.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: Fuete turn.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean, we don't see fuetes.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, but once we see them, you're like, oh my gosh, you did that.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_04: Was a beautiful fuete sequence where I'm like, all right, count your spots, you can turn a second.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_04: Come on, here we go.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_04: I just feel like there just needs to be a bigger distinction in dancer's versatility if you're gonna be doing a lyrical contemporary, and it starts with the teachers and the choreographers to be giving them true lyrical choreography, true contemporary.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_04: Look, do the research.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_04: I talked about this in one of the other episodes of jazz or something, but like look up old school Fosse, old school Gus Giordano, study the technique.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: If you're looking for contemporary, look at Hubbard Street, look at any of like the iconic contemporary ballet companies, and they will never do all second turns.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_04: They won't do in tilts unless you're Ailey, which is wonderful.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then if they're correct tilt, based on the technique.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_04: I just feel like people always just have this rubric of what has to be in a contemporary piece, it has to be the turns, it has to be angsty knee falls, where it's like, no, do the research, study like Merce Cunningham, look at his modern technique.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_04: And that he, I feel like he was one of the first pioneers of like what contemporary dance is because he like broke away from the mold, was like distorting everything, and it was so different for that time.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_04: That like, go back and like chance dance, look at that.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_04: What does that mean?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like do the research, look at the history, and look at look at the people who like paved the way for this art form and look at who's mastering it.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_04: The contemporary companies, Hubbard Streets, they're phenomenal, but you will never see.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, this is comparing apples and oranges, contemporary competition world is different than contemporary concert world.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_04: But as a choreographer, if you can start expanding the horizons and looking beyond the four walls of the studio to see what's out there, it's gonna only not only inspire you, but it's gonna help you to push your students to be even better, be stronger, but really be hireable once they get to that senior year and they want to be a dancer.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_04: That is what is that is what will get you jobs, not the turns, not the tilts.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: But I also think of what's like things of that that are happening at Bates Dance Festival, just piggybacking on what you're saying, like David Dorfman, Doug Verone, all of that is also within the contemporary world and is very much the steps that these dancers are doing.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I don't think that they know that that's where that's coming from.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: I see a lot of preps for inversions, you know, to be upside down, and dancers are just dropping their upper body.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: But if we understood those contemporary techniques, we're using that under curve of the hips to reach those arms out, to reach the body forward, and then that bottom leg reaches out and around, like there's intention to every single moment of that.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we're seeing it within the choreography, but there's just not an understanding of exactly where that's come coming from.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I completely agree with Sam about we don't need to see the turns in Alisagon in in contemporary, we don't need to see the tilts, we don't need to see all the contortion, the the needle like needles, exactly, needles and pitches, head scrimmers and yeah, and it sometimes it starts to feel like as a judge, like there's a formula that these choreographers or teachers for some reason feel are necessary checkpoints, as if like in gymnastics.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it's really not like that.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: What stands out to us is artistry within contemporary, with is is the you know, those elements that we had been talking about before, and that exploration of movement and something that you can bring to the stage that is unique and of your own body would just be so wonderful and so refreshing to see.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I feel like that's like a big part of this discussion, and especially with how and where contemporary has gone in the competitive dance world in general, is that a lot of people are just following trends instead of creating a trend.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what we have to think about.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that one of the things that everyone uses as an excuse.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the dance that had those things that you just listed, Christina, is the dance that wins.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to put it in my dancer's dance.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, you do not.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: If your dancer is a good dancer who has good movement qualities, that has been trained well, that is giving a performance, that has choreography that is showcasing their understanding of the vocabulary and fundamentals of the style that you think you're presenting on stage, then guess what?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably gonna do well.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's A lot of other parts of the equation besides how high is my leg and how awesome is my headspring.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there hasn't been a time when I've seen a headspring or like a reverse worm, and I've thought that was new and interesting.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like to me, I'm just like, everyone's following a trend.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: And like I get it.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Things are trendy.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like when we were growing up, lyrical jans, like, I mean, to this day, calypsos are still like everything.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love a calypso, but like they were the thing in lyrical growing up in the 90s.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like calypsos, especially when you especially you could like arch your back and do like the fancy ones.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_04: Can I also just say I think not to discredit choreographers as much as like we're like it's teachers, do better.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_04: It also is on the competitions to hire qualified judges that know what you're talking about.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_04: Because there it comes to a point where a lot of these judges only know what they see on TikTok and these trends that they they don't have the background, the education of like what is contemporary?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it's based in modern.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_04: Have you taken a modern class?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_04: So it's up to these competitions to hire these qualified judges.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_04: And that's why all these competitions that use IDA, it's so they are they're so lucky because they have qualified judges who know what they're talking about.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: And we're most of the time like all on the same page.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like the judges, you know, across the board.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like we've really, we all kind of have the same view.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: Regardless, we all come from different backgrounds with different types of training and from all over the United States in different parts, even internationally.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: But we all can kind of come on, especially this is a perfect example.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: We're all here on this podcast.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: We're all preaching the same thing when it comes to two distinctly different styles.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so many teachers out there, and there's so many studios, and there's so many choreographers and dancers that don't know the difference between what is lyrical and what is contemporary.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that is why we're here talking about it.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, it's like a no-brainer.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't understand how you don't know the difference.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if I as a judge have to sit there and and think in my head, or maybe I say it on the critique, it depends.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: But like, if I have to sit there and say this isn't lyrical, then I'm questioning, to me, I'm questioning, like, then what are y'all practicing in lyrical?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: The the class at your studio that you're classifying as lyrical or classifying as contemporary, if you if this is what you think it is, this isn't it.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: So what are we, what are we training the kids?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I was gonna say, my biggest pet peeve, and I saw it so much this past season that like I couldn't not harp on it for it was so long, and I was like, Sam, shut up, move on.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_04: When you do a lyrical solo to an instrumental piece, and it's like uh there's no lyrics, but you're in lyrical.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_04: It like throws me for a loop where I'm like, I don't know, and maybe that's just my own personal drama that I need to like sort out in therapy.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_04: But like the I don't know, to me, again, that justice for open will open.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like use the open category.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_04: If you're not sure if it's lyrical or contemporary, throw it in open.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: That's what that category is there for.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_04: But don't don't just throw it into contemporary because you think it's gonna win.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: Hey Dance World, it's Courtney, and I want to tell you about a program that is near and dear to my heart, and that is Young Arts.
• 47:19
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• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: Young Arts offers a national arts competition open to visual, literary, and performing artists between the ages of 15 to 18 or in grades 10 through 12.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: And guess what?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: Applications are now open.
• 47:39
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• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: As a Young Arts alumni and dance winner in 2007, I can tell you how eye-opening and impactful my experience as a high school senior was heading to Young Arts Week in Miami.
• 48:06
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• 48:12
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• 48:16
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• 48:21
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• 48:31
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• 48:35
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• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: We had a really great conversation on um the original Lyrical versus contemporary episode just about this exact topic.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I will throw in my opinion, which I understand where you're coming from, Sam.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: But if you are clear with your storyline and you are clear with your intention and you are clear with your movement quality, I think you can do a lyrical solo to an instrumental song.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're not clear on all three of those things, I need you to go to open because it's not clear.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: I need, I need to imagine the story in my head.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: I need to imagine the lyrics as you're doing it.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: And if you if you're able to do that successfully, if you've convinced me that I know what you're talking about via dance, then that's a lyrical solo.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think people do that very well often.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's that.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'll chime in with my opinion and then let's hear Christina's on this as well.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_02: I rarely see instrumental dances that truly are lyrical, but I do think it is possible.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's mainly ba for me, it's mainly based on how was it choreographed and was it choreographed with with lyrical specific vocabulary?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's very heavily ballet driven, then I'll take it.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: But then also I think they're doing a disservice to the dancer because it's going to be harder to emote with something that's doesn't have lyrics.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's a really challenging thing to to present to a dancer.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't think that they're going to succeed as well as they might, regardless of how it's choreographed.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: But if I like take a step back and see, like, okay, well, I understand why you put this here, but like the dancer is not emoting, or that you know, but the technique's there and the vocabulary is there for quote unquote lyrical, regardless if it has lyrics or not.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the only time that I kind of feel like it's a it's acceptable.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think, Christina?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm I'm in agreement with you, Courtney.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: I think, I think it's possible.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think it's impossible, but it has to be so well crafted to the point that we see that whole story happening.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: We're with you, the storyline is so crystal clear, but that has to be a very mature as far as their acting abilities and believability.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes, too, you know, we see lyrical and we're we're showing the feeling rather than being the feeling.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so I feel like within, you know, if we take the lyrics away, that's a little bit harder for a dancer to find that organic transition between emotions.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: Cause ideally, lyrical will not have one emotion the whole time.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_03: We'll see some variation.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think it's a big ask, but I do think with someone who's exceptional as well as exceptional choreography, I do think it's possible.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's possible.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: But again, I think that our general consensus is that we would prefer not to see it.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's like I I don't think that we prefer that, but I think it it could be possible.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: But like, why take that risk?
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: When there's so many other great songs with lyrics that are giving you the same feeling.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: And if you are like stuck on doing this instrumental song, then like Sam said, put it in open.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe you throw in more contemporary elements and boom, it's contemporary.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe you just put it in contemporary because it could almost be contemporary ballet at that point.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that that's acceptable too, which is also like another hot topic that people are like, where do I put something that's like if you do like YAGP, Grand Prix, uh Universal Dance, ballet competition, all of those?
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of the dancers have like their classical variation and then they have something that's quote unquote contemporary, but it's like too ballet to be, it's like almost like, do you put that in the ballet category?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: Do you put that in contemporary category?
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, where does that live in regular studio dance competitions?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think people are struggling to figure that out.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: I would say if it's really pushing the ballet side of it, I mean, I would be happy to see it in open, truly.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: But I also think like, I mean, do like do we expect to see like classical ballet in the ballet category?
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: Is that our is that our expectation?
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_03: No, if it was if the dancer did not have a classical ballet solo and they were doing a contemporary point piece or a very contemporary ballet piece, I would be happy to see it in the ballet category.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_03: But I understand if they had both, I would say put the the contemporary ballet piece in open if you also have a classical variation.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: Good good advice.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_04: I also just love seeing any any ballet in the competitions arena, no matter what you're doing.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Put it in the top of the phone.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_04: But if you're putting a if you have a ballet solo and there's like it is like 80, 90 ballet with like cool funky transitions, and you put it in the ballet category, I'm like, let's go.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like, thank you for like being brave enough to enter.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like it's like the forbidden territory.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_04: There was like, I cannot go into the ballet category, where it's like, if you do chances and you do it well, you're gonna score very well, and you're gonna you're gonna place very well.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_04: We had this one dancer at my the studio that I core got, she had lyrical solo and a ballet point variation, and her point variation was literally flawless.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_04: And it was 58 seconds of chenes and jetes and beautiful, just classical technique, and it scored so incredibly well, whereas like all of her solos were like 0.1 tenth of a point away from each other, and they're like in the 99s.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like ballet can score well when it's done correctly, but take the risk because you won't know unless you do it.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_04: Judges are on your side, we're rooting for you behind the table.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_04: So, like, show us what you got.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_04: But like, I I will for always and ever love a classical ballet variation.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_04: Give me the Esmeralda, I want that empos with the T.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, Sam.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: Remember when we judged this season and we saw the the paw with the Oh, we were beside ourselves.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: I was Sam was freaking out in the in the chair, and it went on forever.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_04: It was wonderful.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_04: I'm pretty sure it was.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_04: It was beautiful.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_04: It was minutes.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_04: They each did they did like a paw in the beginning, and then they came back and they did a coda, and they were like walked off stage and like he walked back on.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I go, they're doing the coda, they're doing the coda.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like flipping the table.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_04: Everyone's like, shut up.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_04: But they won.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_04: It was wonderful.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_04: Shout out to I don't know who it was, but loved it.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was it was good stuff, but I agree.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: We want to see more ballet.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think what excites me when I see ballet is the fact that I can see where the foundational technique is coming from to then understand how how you're trained when I get to watch your contemporary or I get, you know, depending on how it's laid out in the in the schedule, but um, I'm always here for it.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's another like segue into something that you briefly mentioned, Christina, earlier about on like you were talking about like the paint colors and being able to pull from more paint colors.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: But like if you are a new dancer, if you are a recreational novice dancer, if you're a young dancer who hasn't had many years of training yet, you don't have as many paint colors to pull from.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: So contemporary is going to be harder for you than it would be someone who has more experience and more training and more vocabulary, more styles and more versatility and more genres under their belt.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what we kind of talked a lot about in episode one of Lyrical versus Contemporary is you have to know the rules before you can break the rules.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_02: A Maddie Kurtz quote that lives with me to this day.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so great.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so true.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I and then I don't, I think we're a lot of us are jumping the gun with contemporary because again, we're following a trend.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's popular, you think it wins, you don't have to perform, the songs are cooler.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like we can make a list of why are we going to contemporary when really we as educators and choreographers need to take a step back and say, are you ready for this kind of dance?
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: Are you taking contemporary class regularly?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: Or are you just taking whatever, but you want to do contemporary solo?
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we have to put our foot down and make sure that we're actually guiding the dancers in the best way to be able to present like the best studio self to audience as well.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's a reflection of the studio.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if I'm like, why is the studio doing all these contemporary dance?
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: Kid can barely like find their core.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: They're doing stuff that's dangerous.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: I can see like the foundational technique isn't even there, but we're jumping the gun and going to something that's gonna throw them off their axis or it's gonna put them in dangerous positions when they're not ready for that yet.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I can just tell that they're just trying to keep up with the trend.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what concerns me, I think, a little bit is that I I feel like lyrical dance really shows us that foundational technique.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_02: It really shows us the hard work that you've put into ballet.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: It shows us the hard work you've put into jazz.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that needs to be the style.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_02: I prefer to see the style that style first on a dancer before, like as you know, they're growing up.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think that should be the go-to dial if we had to pick between lyrical versus contemporary for like a first-time soloist.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_02: I would say go lyrical.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think in the training process, lyrical has more to offer in the young young developing dancer in terms of musicality, of texture, of storytelling, of connecting your movement quality to the music and it not just being about the shape, but it being that you are the expression of the music.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's a lot of value in that if we're thinking about in terms of an order or pedagogy or how how we should stack the the growing process.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_03: I really think that we're underestimating that what lyrical has to offer in a dancer's training versus jumping too contemporary too soon.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was at Nationals this summer and was speaking to somebody who is not a dancer but has been in the business for a long time, and they were commenting on some of the opening numbers for the pieces that were happening for the students, and one of them was lyrical.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, you know, it just it feels like it looks the same every year.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: This person always does a lyrical dance.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: It looks the same.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if that's part of what maybe a new shift in thinking about lyrical from some people has become, is that with contemporary, it it feels like maybe you can cover so much more than lyrical, but I don't I don't know.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was kind of shocked at hearing that perspective because I was like, I mean, I didn't see the one last year, but I don't think that look that looks lovely and beautiful, and I want to see that kind of movement.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you guys have any thoughts on that?
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, well, y'all go if you have a thought.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have a different thought.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I can see where they're coming from, where it is much more of a set vocabulary of movement, but that doesn't mean that you can't tell a deep and varied story with it.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that there's a lot of ways to move within the the lyrical vocabulary where it doesn't have to feel like that.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that would be like saying that about Horton.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_03: Horton has its own very specific vocabulary, but yet you can tell, you know, so many different stories in so many different ways using that that movement.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I I can I hear, I hear them, but I don't think that that has to necessarily be true.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: To me, it sounds like that they're like that they're upset with a choreographic style versus the genre.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I would think.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because like I feel like like we we as choreographers, we have our like go-to, you know, like style.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's like almost like our signature.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's the style style within a style, yeah.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's like the same, and and we use a lot of like the same vocabulary when we're creating material as a said choreographer.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe that same person choreographed it last year, so they felt like it felt like a duplicate or like a replica of last year with a different song, but it's just like, but maybe that's just the style of the choreographer, and that's what they were hired to do.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_04: I agree with that.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_04: McCord's now.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: With that, the other thing I was gonna say quickly was I think that people pick contemporary these days, and we see its popularity because of the rise of acro.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that people think that they can do more acro contemporary solos where you can't really add a lot of acro into lyrical.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think an aerial is lyrical appropriate.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think a front aerial is lyrical appropriate.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: I do not think a chin stand is lyrical appropriate, and I do not think a headspring is lyrical appropriate.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_02: But those moves every kid can do, like if you can do an aerial, you can do a chin stand and they probably want it in their solo.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_02: So then they're like, well, we can't really put that in lyrical, so let's put it in contemporary, is what I think happens.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I also think it's very much what you talked about earlier, Christina.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_02: About to me, it almost, I'm gonna go on like a quick little tangent.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: To me, it almost feels like that we're not putting the dancer, we're not thinking about the dancer when we're creating and we're thinking and and the goal of where are we presenting this work, like you said, and this is a dance competition that has categories.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's not going into the head of the creators.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, yes, does that restrict you from your artistry?
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_02: It does, absolutely.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: But that is your choice to go to a competition.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't want, if you don't want to be restricted, go to a performance down the street.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know what to tell you in that scenario, but there's rules for a reason and there's genres for a reason, and competitions have them, and we need to make sure that we're teaching the kids the appropriate genres.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: But like on the flip side, with Sam's uh mention of multiple solos, I think there needs to be more collaboration within the choreographers who are setting the multiple solos to make sure that the solos don't look the same.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think that's happening.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think that the choreographers are just being selfish and proud and saying, Well, I you asked me to do a contemporary, so I'm gonna do what I want with my contemporary.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: And what skills do you want in it?
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: Meanwhile, it turns out to be the same exact dance.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_02: Or the same person's choreographing both instead of changing it up and getting variety.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: I know if I, if I'm ever choreographing someone solo, I ask them what's their other style.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: But as a guest choreographer, I'm like, what's your other solo?
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: Are you doing two?
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: What are you doing?
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so you're doing a lyrical and you want me to do a jazz?
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so we're gonna go really like high energy, like super fun, super sassy, so it has not doesn't match your lyrical at all.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm making sure that me as the choreographer is doing my job to make sure the dancer is coming out showing versatility, showing variety, and not showing two of the same dances because that's where the blending happens and that's when we can't distinct between what's lyrical versus contemporary.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the the teachers don't know, the dancers don't know.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_02: And my concern for the industry is that all this whole generation doesn't really understand what the difference is, and then they're gonna become teachers one day.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: And next thing you know, no one, absolutely no one.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think the genres will just disappear because there will be no distinction between the two.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's also up at that point to the teachers and educators to make sure you're still continuing your own education.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_04: Go to conferences, go to conventions, do the teacher classes, you know, CLI studios, all these online, like continue your own education that you can continue to bring something new to your students.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_04: So it's not just this homegrown formula that only like Dolly Dinkle Studio does.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_04: But you're you're pushing yourself as a creator, as an you know, an artist, but you're bringing that back into the four walls of the studio to give your kids something new.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, especially now with so many things are online.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_03: You can just jump into any class at Broadway Dance Center or steps.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, why wouldn't you want to?
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_03: Why wouldn't you want to also build your own vocabulary?
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's just that should always be a dancer's mindset, is like we're always moving forward, we're always it's always changing, it's always evolving.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's part of too why it's hard for us to put our finger on contemporary, is because we're in it, we're in that evolution right now.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's so much easier for us to look behind us and name, oh, that's what that was.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, things are still changing and still evolving.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it just always serves everyone to keep growing and keep um seeing live dance outside of the competition world to really get a finger on the pulse of what it is that you're bringing back into the studio.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I think what's so interesting to that exact point is like you can't put your finger on it because you can go see, you could have seen Carousel on Broadway from Justin Pack, who's doing like this super stunning contemporary, but then you can go five blocks down the road and you can see Moulin Rouge, where there's still contemporary dance from Sonia Taya, who's doing just polar opposite movement to Lady Gaga, and it's still that like distorted picture, but it's like earthy, it's it's it's good.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_04: But it's it's those two could still be considered contemporary, but you could see exquisite partnering in American Empire from Chris Wheeldon, but then you can also go see, like, I don't know, another crazy contemporary like Michael Jackson.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_04: That's probably again Chris Wheeldon, classical ballet, but then like with Martha Nicholson.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know, they're like hip-hop-inspired contemporary.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_04: There's so many different brackets to it.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_04: You just have to find your niche.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_04: You have to stick with it, but be educated and stay hungry to like learn all these different facets to make your dancers as well-rounded as they possibly can be.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, after having said all of that, you just named all these names and all these choreographers and all these different versions of contemporary.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: The contemporary category at competition is the biggest category ever.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to see all kinds of contemporary in that.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's also really hard for anybody, whether you're a spectator, a mom, a dad, a studio owner, whoever, to pin down what wins, quote unquote.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're going to see all those styles of contemporary and contemporary, the 300 solos that we see that are contemporary, they're all going to be different.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's almost easier to pin down what quote unquote might win in lyrical, because like we've been saying, I can name all those steps.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell, do you have ballet training to execute that step properly?
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes or no?
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: The end.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: Contemporary, it's a bigger, it's just a bigger world.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bigger picture.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's really important for everybody to hear, you know, parents and teachers alike, that you cannot pin it down.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is still evolving, like Christina said.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's a beautiful thing.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's just does it, does it, it makes the competitive aspect of what we do even more challenging.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's even harder to define it because of that.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we're we're trying our best over here.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've got a rubric as judges, and I'm trying to follow it, you know, and it's hard.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and we all, you know, clearly have different opinions, even though we have similar opinions at the same time.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think that like more people will probably say that, well, if it's a lyrical dance that we happen to put in contemporary, you should be more forgiving of that, since contemporary is this, you know, melting pot of whatever we want it to be in the world today, versus if it's an actual true contemporary dance with contemporary vocabulary in the lyrical category.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: And while I do think that is probably the case for most points, there are many, many times where I see a dance that's labeled as contemporary, and I'm like, this is lyrical.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm literally watching lyrical.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_02: I don't understand why you what did I watch that you think puts this in contemporary?
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's checked every single box off for my lyrical needs, and you still classified it as contemporary.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then, like I said, then it just makes me question, well, do you even and I guess it can, like, can it be?
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_02: I guess.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_02: But if there is a lyrical category, then it just makes me wonder do you, do you, as the teacher in studio or whoever put this here, understand what the difference is?
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's concerning.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_04: And that's where I automatically, like in those instances, I totally understand what you're saying.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_04: I start flipping in the program book to be like, well, does she do they have another lyrical photo?
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_04: Where is your other exactly?
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_04: I want to understand why this one.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_04: But at the end of the day, I'm not watching you at this moment.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like worried about like, well, what's happening?
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_04: And don't give us a reason to take your eyes off you.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_04: Don't give us that reason.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_04: Just put it in the right category.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_04: Look at the description.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_04: They're also cut, not to go back to the acro moment, but like there were so many, there's so many new competitions now that have literal acro limits.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_04: And like we'll watch our numbers and be like, oh, there's three tricks in this.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_04: This has to go in open because if you do three more, you start losing points.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_04: So looking at the descriptions, look what each competition provides.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_04: It may be different per competition, who knows?
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_04: But I would say 99% of the time they're all gonna be the same.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_04: But don't give us the reason to like get fixated on one thing that we lose, we lose the magic of what you're doing on stage.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_02: It happens, it happens.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's and it's never fun to have to take a moment to pause and be like, like you were saying, Sam, not only looking down, but also having to take a moment to pause and be like, hey, next time, I really think it would be much better if this was put in the lyrical category.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like this is something that connects to lyrical, and it feels like we're just putting this in contemporary.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I when it really feels appropriate, I always take the opportunity to say that because we're there to educate and we're there to help.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so I want to give that opinion and that guidance, but I'd rather be focusing on what the dancer's doing and how, you know, not having to talk about those types of things.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_04: But also at the end of the day, that could affect the overalls.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_04: And if there are category overalls and you are a contemporary dancer in a lyrical category, but you're not a lyrical soloist, like it, it's absolutely it doesn't make sense.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_04: And that that's what I'm fixating on.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_04: Cause I'm like, I want to make sure that my judging is the most fair, it's the most, you know, accurate.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_04: But at the end of the day, you know, that can affect overall.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_04: And that's why it's so important that you put it in the right category because this is what's running through our heads behind the microphone.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_04: Is as we're looking at our top five, yes, I may love your contemporary syllable, but you have an illicit category.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, this isn't fair to the other four here.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_04: And definitely send a note to have you move to the contemporary category.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_04: I've done that.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_02: But then you can't because you already have a dance in that.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_02: So then you'd be competing against yourself.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's right, so then we put you in open, I guess.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like yeah.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then again, I think that's another thing that parent parents and teachers and people who who get questiony about placements need to hear is that I have to score what I see.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: If I can't move you, if I can't put you in the right category, if your contemporary dance was excellent and you're in the lyrical category, you might win top overall.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not my fault because I had to do my job.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if I couldn't do my job and move you to the right category where you would have placed properly, you you might still win.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you might beat the lyrical girl who actually did a lyrical solo.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_00: But if your skills were on point and the technique category has the most points, that's what it is.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I think people people need to understand that that happens sometimes.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it may not be anybody's fault.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody might have done that with malicious intent to sweep a category, or they might have.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_00: But it happens.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And there's there's just a little explanation behind the scenes as to, well, so-and-so won, that must be lyrical.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, so-and-so won because her technique and the skills she presented happened to be excellent and better than the actual lyrical dance that plays second.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot more that goes into how things score than the general public think.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_02: And there's and like we just said, there's so many other things that are going through our head, and there's so many things that we can't really do anything about.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it I personally wish that there were there were deductions where we could deduct accordingly.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_02: That way, that lyrical dance doesn't, or that contemporary dance that was in a lyrical category doesn't win because it got three points deducted off its score and falls into fifth place because you miscategorized it.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like until there is like accountability to who's ever making these errors, not on the dancer's end.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the dancer's fault.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_02: She didn't place it, she didn't register the dance, somebody else did and they made an error, and they should be deducted for that.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, that's the only way they're gonna learn.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_02: If not, then everybody at the competition is gonna be upset because an incorrect dance won.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then they're gonna lose business about it too, because they're gonna be like, well, uh, they'd obvious the judges obviously don't know what they're talking about, and always gets put back on us all the time because we we obviously don't know what we're looking at.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_04: And we are not passionate people at all.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_04: We don't know anything.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_02: The hard part is that, like, yes, there may be, like Sam said, yes, there might be judges that don't know what they're talking about.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_02: But then there are judges that do, and we still are a little bit our hands are tied um in certain scenarios.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then it no matter what, it just makes us look bad.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what the really unfortunate thing about like where the industry has shifted and gone, because there's no accountability for when there is a mistake on the teacher or choreographer's end.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that we there needs to be change.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how many times we need to talk about on the podcast before like someone will finally be like, you know what?
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great idea.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, I know and hope I mean, if if more people listen and more people realize, oh, I didn't put that in the right category.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's in this one.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, maybe there will be change from within.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right, you know, but like we are but a small piece of the dance community at large.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_00: So like we can only do as much as we can do.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_02: We're hoping.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I think, and like I even polled our Facebook group recently to see if everyone listens to all three judges' critiques.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the majority of their response was yes.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_04: And some people like one.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_04: I pick my favorite.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Right.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_02: How do you know who's a lot of people I hope it's me who pick their favorite?
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And like then that mention that you said, Christina, of like, you know, I really think that this belongs in contemporary.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it would, I I would we don't even know if people are listening to that.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_02: We have no idea.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_02: But if it was a score, you know for a fact people see that score.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_02: They are looking at those score sheets, they care all about a number for whatever reason.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that is the direction our industry needs to go because it's very clear that like we can work our booties off behind the judge's table, but we have no idea if we're being heard.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_02: We and we're also not really oftentimes even allowed to talk to the teacher.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's really restricting us.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's unfortunate because we just want to do our job well and we want to score your dancers what they deserve, and we want the overalls to be how they should be, but sometimes they're we we speak as if you're going to hear us.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like I'm speaking into the void, you know what I mean?
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like like Sam said, like we're not passionate at all.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_00: We are like that's the thing.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm speaking in hopes that you hear me.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Don't don't let us do our job in vain.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I want to make the paycheck, but I also want to help you.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's why we're there.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because I mean, for me, I remember, I remember what that judge's feedback felt like.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_03: I remember, you know, when you would get a compliment or you'd see your favorite judge at the competition again, and you're like, oh yes, I learned so much from them the last time, you know.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's why we're there.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_03: We're there to help be a part of your journey and help be a part of your growth and support you.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_04: And you never know when your paths are gonna cross again with a judge.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_04: They could be, you know, you could be auditioning for them one day and be like, oh my God, no, I remember you.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_04: I always had this one judge at a competition growing up, and I was always so excited to see her because she gave such good feedback, but she was like big in the New York agency world, and she became my agent like 10 years later.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like you never know what those like small, small moments in those two and a half minutes in front of someone.
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_04: What like 10 years from now, what those two and a half minutes, someone can be like, Oh, I remember when you did your your knee slide across from stage left to stage right, foot loose with a jazz hand, that was me.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes, she became my agent.
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_04: We have a great relationship, and it's all thanks to dance competition.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_04: So just be mindful of who you're in front of because you never know what is gonna come 10, 15 years down the road.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_02: Truly.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I remember, uh, and I've I think I've shared this on the podcast before, but when I was at a nationals, like towards the end of my competition days, a the judge, like later in many years down the road, a few years back, found me on Facebook and messaged me and was like, Are you the coordinate that competed at this competition on this date?
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_02: And oh my gosh, I remember I will never forget your solo.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy to see how far you've come in your career.
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_02: I always knew that you would be successful.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm um, I just want to let you know that like I'm the judge that never forgot your dance.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like blown away by that.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_02: And even to this day, they follow me on Instagram, they comment on my stuff.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like they we care.
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, as judges, we care.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_02: We are a part of this dance journey for you.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And especially now with social media.
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's how we got to recon I got to reconnect with this person, but like it's such a small dance world, and it's it's just, I hope that people do, you know, respect and cherish what we have to say.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_02: And like, you know, take it into consideration whether you like what you hear or don't think it's a good opinion or a perspective.
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we're seeing it from our experience in many different avenues of the industry.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_02: And something as simple as this could this is miscategorized or this is in the wrong genre could be a light bulb moment for you as an educator, for you as a studio, for you and your dancer.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_02: You might completely shift how you perform that dance if you know I need to put it in this category, or maybe I need to take these few different elements out to make it fit into this right category.
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's it's a learning lesson for us all.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, we we're really, we really care.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_02: And we hope that you're listening to all of the judges' critiques because we put a lot of hearts, blood, sweat, and tears, honestly, into those three minutes that we talk to y'all.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's also, I feel like there's also this competitive nature with choreographers and teachers sometimes where you will never show someone what pieces you bring in the competition until it hits the stage and then everyone posts everything because whatever.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_04: But like, let's normalize like dance teacher collaboration from different studios.
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_04: If you don't know, text a video or a clip to like another dance teacher and be like, what would you do in this?
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_04: What would you put into this category?
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_04: Be open and like, I don't know.
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_04: I just feel like there's this like, oh, you can't see what my lyrical piece is this year.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like waiting to see it on stage, but then you're in the wrong category, and it's like, well, this could have been fixed.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_04: But use the collaboration, use your friends, use the like IDA critique, submit your video before.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_04: You can get feedback, use the genres.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry, I'm publicist Sam like plugging your business.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks, Sam.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm serious, like finding those moments and those other voices that you've been staring at these pieces for so long, having a fresh set of eyes, they could tell you something that you maybe didn't see within 15 seconds of watching it.
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_04: So just a little helpful tip there.
• 1:19:44
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I would utilize your friends, like the your community, the people that you know, because as we have heard this summer, folks be stealing stuff.
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So don't just show your piece to everybody.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you gotta keep something under wraps, but like find your trusted community.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_00: You everybody has one.
• 1:19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't, we will be your trusted community.
• 1:20:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're exactly join the program.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_00: What is this, Sam?
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, y'all, I think that we have to wrap up this chat.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I know we could talk all day about this, but we really made some extraordinary points, I think, in this discussion and this 2.0 chat of Lyrical versus Contemporary.
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think that it's uh so refreshing to hear from two new perspectives on this topic.
• 1:20:25
  SPEAKER_02: And uh to all of our listeners out there, if you haven't had a chance to listen to our very first one, which was season one episode of four, our most popular episode in existence, then go give that a listen.
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's so funny.
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, please don't judge when you listen and you listen to the poor quality of the sound quality.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_02: The sound quality is just bad.
• 1:20:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's just we've come a long way, y'all.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_02: We really have.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_02: We really have.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's it was great.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's fun to like listen back and reminisce, but I hope that this was also equally as informative and maybe we'll help you all as we're getting ready to register or creating our our dances first.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's the first step, is the creation process.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_02: The next is where do I place this dance in competition?
• 1:21:07
  SPEAKER_02: But the best advice go into that rehearsal with the mindset and the approach uh as to what genre you are choreographing for.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that will be a really helpful tool for a lot of the creators out there at the start of the season.
• 1:21:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, to our guests, Sam and Christina, thank you so much for spending your evening with us, chatting and dance over here.
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 1:21:29
  SPEAKER_02: Being our very first episode of season five.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_02: And we're so grateful to have you on the IDA roster.
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Can't wait for a great season that will be here before you know it.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure.
• 1:21:42
  SPEAKER_02: I know, blink of an eye.
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, if you both wouldn't mind sharing with us one final thought that you'd like to share, you can talk about lyrical, you can talk about contemporary, you can talk to whoever you want into the dance universe.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Final thoughts.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_03: We can go first, Sam.
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe that might inspire.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:22:04
  SPEAKER_04: I think as we're going into this new season and we're on this little period of rest, if you will, post-nationals or whatever your summer plans were.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_04: I want everyone to approach this new season with like the biggest of exhale.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_04: Let last season go.
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_04: Do not take anything that maybe caused you stress or anxiety or just any sort of like anything that pulled you away from the why, the reason why we're dancing, why we go to class, why we train so hard, why we're putting ourselves in this vulnerable place to be on stage, where we're allowing people to come into our world for two and a half minutes.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_04: I want us to go into the season and just remember our why, the reason that we're we're so passionate about what we do and recognize that the people behind the microphones are rooting for you.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_04: We want to give everyone a hundred.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_04: Make us give you a hundred.
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_04: And it doesn't mean do 19 pirouettes.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_04: Give me that clean single on a relevant.
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, yes, ma'am, this is great.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_04: But don't ever forget the reason why you're dancing and why we do what we do.
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_04: And the fact that there can be so much to learn from your other competitors on stage.
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_04: There, those are the people you will grow up dancing with, auditioning with, working with.
• 1:23:20
  SPEAKER_04: Christina Balinski and I grew up dancing in Nutcrackers in like 2000 and like four, whatever.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna age ourselves, but way back in the day.
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_04: And here we are judging and working together.
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_04: And the dance world is too small to ever come into it with that, like the rose-colored glasses on.
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_04: So take them off, exhale, remember why you do what you do, and just blow us away with your talent, your love, and joy of dance.
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:23:45
  SPEAKER_03: I I love all that, Sam.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I would suggest adding a practice of maybe little journaling, writing down some things that when you go to competition, what pieces stood out to you?
• 1:23:57
  SPEAKER_03: Why did they stand out to you?
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_03: What is it about that dancer's quality that moves you?
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_03: What feedback did you receive that you feel like maybe you've heard it a few times before?
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe if you write it down, there can be a new perspective to be gained from it, and a little bit more of a of a tangible list of progression or a tangible list of things to focus on and goals.
• 1:24:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think writing down ideas in that way is so helpful.
• 1:24:24
  SPEAKER_03: And it's something that I still do to this day.
• 1:24:27
  SPEAKER_03: Even when I take classes, I literally have my dance journal here.
• 1:24:31
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it's something to just take into consideration in your growth as you approach this news competition season with bright eyes.
• 1:24:40
  SPEAKER_03: And and then just like uh Sam said, making those connections with those people, that is where the true magic is of competitions.
• 1:24:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's really honestly not about the scores, it's about that opportunity to get to perform and to be able to learn from each other and connect with each other.
• 1:24:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what makes this dance community so special is how we get to turn back around and get to support each other in every stage of our careers.
• 1:25:09
  SPEAKER_02: We hope you enjoyed our first episode of season five, all about lyrical versus contemporary.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_02: Shout out to our special guest, IDA judges, who joined us on the chat.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Be sure to follow them both on Instagram.
• 1:25:21
  SPEAKER_02: You can find Sam at Sam Quinn and Christina at Christina Balinski.
• 1:25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Also, be sure to check out Christina's dance-inspired clothing line, artists in motion apparel on Instagram.
• 1:25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:25:41
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• 1:25:47
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• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Join now at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Be sure to check out IDA affiliated competition DECA Dance Competition.
• 1:26:07
  SPEAKER_02: Decca Dance Competition is a celebration of artists and the families who love them.
• 1:26:12
  SPEAKER_02: This experience was created not just for competitors, but to honor the educators, choreographers, studio owners, adjudicators, teachers, and parents who make the dance community what it is.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Come experience the Decca difference.
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_02: With a specialized four-judge panel, an exclusive distinctive scoring system with weighted technique scores, live judges critiques, and the first fully sprung Umara dance floor in competition history.
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_02: We invite you to join them at an event this season as they celebrate five years of Decca Dance Competition.
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Visit their website for a full list of upcoming convention and competition events in their 2024 season at Decadance Competition.com.
• 1:26:53
  SPEAKER_00: We can't wait to share more of season five of Making the Impact with you.
• 1:26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Coming up in the next few weeks, we've got topics including our first studio spotlight episode, music editing, and performing arts high schools.
• 1:27:05
  SPEAKER_02: Stay tuned for next week's episode.
• 1:27:07
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see you then.
• 1:27:08
  SPEAKER_02: Keep dancing.