Latest / Learnings and Missteps by Depth Builder / The Long Game: Stephanie Wood on Culture and Commercial Success

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The Long Game: Stephanie Wood on Culture and Commercial Success · Learnings and Missteps by Depth Builder

0:00
SPEAKER_02: We don't have to be flexible, but the option of not being flexible is they ain't gonna put up with your crap and they're not gonna work under certain conditions because they don't have to.
0:15
SPEAKER_02: What is going on, LM family, back again?
0:20
SPEAKER_02: And this time I am getting to know.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: Actually, this is the second time we've had a conversation, which is kind of rare lately, but I'm getting to know, and you're gonna get to know a super awesome person.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: And like the one thing that I know we're gonna dive into is her care for the trades, for the people out there, the real experience that people have out there in the workforce on our construction sites.
0:45
SPEAKER_02: She is the co-founder and CEO of Co-Build Construction.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: They're a general contractor in San Francisco in the Bay Area.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: So they're over in beautiful fancy town, which is amazing.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: She's also the co-creator of Builder's Grit, which is a thing that we're gonna absolutely talk about that helps field teams debunk the myth of toughness and develop real grit and resilience, which I think there's probably gonna be some vulnerability in there.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: I also know there's gonna be some neuroscience like packed up all in there.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: So if you can't tell already, she's a super amazing, inspiring person, Miss Stephanie Wood, who's given me, I think, a little leeway to call, introduce her as Steph Wood.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: Yes, sir.
1:33
SPEAKER_02: Super motivational, traveled an amazing path, very interesting path, and you're gonna get to know her here in a sec.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: But now, if this is your first time here, you are listening to the Learnings and Missteps podcast, where you get to meet people, amazing superstar people just like you that are sharing their gifts and talents to leave this world better than they found it.
1:57
SPEAKER_02: I am Jesse, your selfish servant, and we are about to get to know Miss Steph Wood.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: Miss Steph, how are you this morning?
2:06
SPEAKER_02: Or after you're talking about.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm super excited to be here.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for the invitation.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: Oh, of course.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: I got to, I've got in, we got introduced by way of Jordan, who I've got to hang out with, who's an amazing dude.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: That his heart for the industry stood out to me.
2:25
SPEAKER_02: And then when I got to talk to him and he told me about what y'all are doing over there at Cobilt, I'm like, whoa, like, where is what in the world?
2:32
SPEAKER_02: Like from a real human being, he's like, Oh, yeah, you got to meet Steph.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: And then we met at Congress, and and here we are.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: So I like to start off with a super simple question.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: Are you ready?
2:43
SPEAKER_02: Okay, what is the meaning behind Cobild?
2:48
SPEAKER_02: Something tells me there's some significance there.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: So for sure there is.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: It's actually the we kind of founded Cobild on a notion that we could do construction differently.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: I co-founded Co-Build with my husband Ed.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: He came up through actually the trades and was a superintendent, was leading a region here for a big developer.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: And he saw how actually really the trades were dehumanized.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: They were seen as enemies and people you just had to keep tack, keep your thumb on.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: Um and he kind of was like, this is not working for me.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: And my background was in management consultant and or organizational leadership.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: So we started Cobild with the notion that building goes better when we work collaboratively.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: So that's how Cobild came to be.
3:41
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: I love it, I love it.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: So, Cole, in my head, what that's more like a collaboration, an element of collaboration with everybody that's on the job site.
3:51
SPEAKER_02: Am I really the job site?
3:53
SPEAKER_00: And actually, even I would say extends to our clients where we're listening well.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: I think that sometimes builders just get drawings and say, give us your drawings and we'll go build it, instead of listening well to what really defines success for the people we're building for.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: And we want to be good about listening for that.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm sure you know this, but I just want to make sure, do you recognize how rare that perspective is in our industry?
4:24
SPEAKER_02: Like nationally.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: People tell me it's very rare, but I honestly cannot imagine another way to do it.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure you got peers out there in the industry.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm wondering like, have you gotten any kind of pushback or like looking competitors looking at you sideways?
4:44
SPEAKER_02: What in the hell's wrong with you?
4:45
SPEAKER_02: What are you what are y'all doing it that way?
4:47
SPEAKER_02: Why are you that's harder?
4:48
SPEAKER_02: Why don't you just make it easy?
4:50
SPEAKER_00: I think the pushback we got initially was for our trades.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: They didn't believe it, first of all.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Our trade partners were like, I don't know what this nonsense is about.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: This this feels very soft and fluffy.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: And we're not used to this, and I'm not sure why it matters until they started making more money on our projects.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: And then I and they actually also started to see that not focusing on culture has impact on the viability and profitability of a business.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: So maybe that's where I saw the most pushback was our trades until they kind of got a taste of why it matters.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: So the trades were like, Yeah, I hear you talking, but let's see.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's cute.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: That sounds cute.
5:36
SPEAKER_02: What for real?
5:36
SPEAKER_02: We'll figure that out for real out there on the job site.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
5:40
SPEAKER_02: But so it sounds like okay, now they're on your project and they're profitable or more profitable than maybe normal, and then they come around and say, Wow, this is awesome.
5:51
SPEAKER_02: This is that you meant it, huh?
5:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:54
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: Now I have I got a question, and then I have a theory.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna start with my theory, and I think you're like, if I could put a case study together, if I ever had the discipline to do that, I would.
6:09
SPEAKER_02: My theory is this given the current state of our industry, massive labor shortage, it's gonna continue to get bigger because we have the baby booners leaving the industry, so it's not just head to head, we're talking like head count to head count.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: We're talking like decades of experience exiting, and everybody's fighting for the same talent or people.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: So wages are going up.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like we're at a point where the wages aren't really as important or they're not going to be the differentiator as much as the quality of life that people experience on a project.
6:48
SPEAKER_02: Meaning, when the decision makers within that project team and in Shangri-La within the construction company are really invested in appreciating the people, those firms and teams are going to be are going to win.
7:05
SPEAKER_02: They're gonna win the talent game.
7:07
SPEAKER_02: What do you think about that?
7:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're betting on it.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: So I've pushed all my tips on in for that.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: I we're betting on that.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: That's the case, that if we treat people with respect, we'll get the highest, best quality folks on our projects, and we'll just build better.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: And then yeah.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and so in terms of let's say I'm gonna say I'm dumb.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: This is the way I think.
7:33
SPEAKER_02: Like first date, second date.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: First date, they get on your project, they experience sure that's cute, and then they're like, oh wow, this is different.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: Second date, maybe that's the second project, maybe it's negotiating change orders.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: Do you see, do you are you able to feel or sense that you're getting some kind of preferred pricing based on their experience that they had with you before or their first experience?
8:00
SPEAKER_00: I think it takes longer than two projects, but people are slow to trust and they want to know what's a pattern and not just a fluke.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: But over time, I think it's true.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's definitely true.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I my money says yes.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've been on the subcontractor side of my business, of the business the majority of my life, and I've been in those conversations, right?
8:24
SPEAKER_02: We're like, hey, Jess, we're gonna bid this project, it's a tenant finish out, and we want to go really aggressive and we want to do a labor multiplier of 0.80 on the ductwork.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I mean, sounds like the conditions are there, but who is going to do the project?
8:40
SPEAKER_02: And they would tell me the name of the GC.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: And I said, okay, who's their project manager and superintendent?
8:46
SPEAKER_02: And based on that name, I would say negative.
8:48
SPEAKER_02: We need to put a 1.3 multiplier on the labor because those guys are ding-dongs.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: They're they don't treat us worth a damn, and we're gonna scratch and claw for every penny because they cannot manage a project.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, flow is messed up.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: Construction's difficult.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: We face every damn constraint possible.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna destabilize the plan.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: We got weather, we got supply chain issues, we got people, like the whole thing.
9:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's hard enough as it is.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: And then to have to work with people that have zero respect or appreciation for your, like you said, treat you like you're a problem.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: It's just not worth it.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: No, no.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, trades get treated like the enemy, but the reality is the GCs are not building anything.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: We want to do the LM family member shout-out.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: And this one goes to Miss Lynn Randall, who's also in California, but she's down in the San Diego, Southern California area.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: Miss Lynn says Depth Builder is more than Jesse's passion for the industry or his charisma.
9:57
unknown: Ding.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: Depth builder courses are about real life experience and success translated into real action.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: Actionable knowledge and skills you can use immediately to improve yourself, your life, and the lives and projects you are a part of.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: Miss Lynn, that is super, super awesome.
10:17
SPEAKER_02: I promise, like my eyes welled up a little bit when I was reading it.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, ma'am, for your support and for going out of your way to leave me a little Google review.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: So I'm fancy now.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: I got Google reviews.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: And folks out there, you already know I love attention and I love to know what you're thinking.
10:32
SPEAKER_02: I love to know how things are impacting you.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: So when you take the time to leave a review, leave a comment, do five stars or one star, any and all of the above, it is extremely meaningful to me.
10:43
SPEAKER_02: And it gives me an excuse to shout you out in a future episode.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: The traits are truly our partners.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: Things get built because they're skilled and they bring their skill to our project, and they are the builders.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: So our main job is to clear the path, um, to create tools for clear communication, to help facilitate relationships between different trades, to be clear in what the schedule is and what the flow is, right?
11:16
SPEAKER_00: And be, yeah, that's our job.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: Agree.
11:19
SPEAKER_02: Agree.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: Help us out here.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: Now, yeah, I imagine you didn't just, or maybe you did, you waved a magic wand and said, Okay, I want to operate, build a construction business.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: It's really collaborative and provides a different experience for all the human beings, the client, every all stakeholders involved.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: And then you just waved your wand and you had a lineup of like seasoned superintendents and project managers that said, Hey, I know how to do that.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: Is that what happened?
11:48
SPEAKER_00: This is not what happened.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: Actually, this is still a dilemma.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: It's such a challenge.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: Like the people with the skills have only known a particular type of construction, and it's the kind of construction where they get treated like the enemy.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: So there's that group of folks who are skilled, they know what they're doing, they're a little jaded because they have a right to be, frankly.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: And then there's folks who are brand new, they don't know what's up, but they're willing to try, and they're bought into the idea that we can work collaboratively.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: So, how do you put together a team of people who have enough hope in the industry that it can change and enough skill to do it together?
12:30
SPEAKER_00: We're, I mean, it's a challenge, it's really a challenge.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: We find some unicorns out there who have both skill and also just this passion for treating people with respect.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: I would say Jordan's a unicorn.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Um and he will make you an AI image to prove it.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, we gotta see that.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: But there aren't that many out there.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: So part of our job as a team is to cultivate those people.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: And we have a rhythm of regular all hands meetings, which are totally leadership.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: It's basically if you come to co-build, you're getting a graduate school degree in leadership because you might be skilled in construction as absolutely completely necessary.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: But there's also construction, and building well is ultimately about building people well.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: And those are skills that aren't usually taught to people who have a background in construction.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: So we do it weekly, really.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:30
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: And so, and when you're bringing in like experienced hires, what's their response to that?
13:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, we've gotten good about asking good questions before we hire people because it's not for everyone.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: Some people that pivot is too big, too hard.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: And they're not, yeah, they're not willing to do it, and they just want to finish out their career in what they know.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: So we do our best to not even invite them in because they won't be successful here.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: They just won't.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: So after we sort of do our initial investigating, and we've gotten pretty clever about that.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, we don't always get it right, but we get it pretty close to right.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: Then it's still a shock to the system.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: I would say almost everyone who has a background in construction is a little bit of a shock to the system.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: But what they find is that they're in a place where like there's a little bit of room to make a mistake, to figure it out, to try new things.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: We're trying to get people to be able to tolerate a level of risk because we know that they begin to believe that they're just not going to have their feet chopped out beneath them.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, I love like the tolerating the level of risk, I think is massive because I've been on, yeah, I'm a lean construction psychopath, right?
14:46
SPEAKER_02: I got introduced to it back in 2000.
14:49
SPEAKER_02: And I just wanted to lean everybody.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: And I would judge people, right?
14:53
SPEAKER_02: Like, why don't you just do this thing?
14:55
SPEAKER_02: This thing is better, this thing is easier.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: And when I say lean, there's a lot of tools.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: I know y'all are engaged in rather, y'all already had the DNA, and now you're putting maybe adopting and incorporating some things that are in the lean world.
15:07
SPEAKER_02: So you have the heart and the philosophy already before the branded stuff that comes from lean.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, what I finally had to come to terms with was I'm coming to people and telling them that I have a better way, which is not a good approach.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: Number one.
15:27
SPEAKER_02: Number two, because that has a demeaning effect, right?
15:31
SPEAKER_02: If somebody comes to me and tells me, hey, I got I see what you're doing, I got something better, like what I'm less than all of a sudden, and not on purpose, but I'm minimizing all of the experience they've cultivated or fought and clawed the hard way.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: And so for I mean, I struggled with it too.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: I remember the one of the project executives came out to my job site and said, Hey Jess, we're launching 5S and we're gonna we're gonna use your project as a case study.
16:00
SPEAKER_02: And I said, You can 5S yourself back to the damn office.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: And I didn't say it that nice, right?
16:04
SPEAKER_02: I didn't have time for that.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: And so the risk for folks that have a lot of reps out there have run projects successfully, got promotions, got all the accolades and the big sexy jobs, is that they have a method that works, they have history and data that says this produces the outcome.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: You want me to do it this way that is like 180 degrees from how I've typically functioned, it's a huge risk for them as an individual.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: For sure, for sure it is.
16:35
SPEAKER_02: It sounds like y'all are like recognizing and embracing that in maybe two forms.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: First, coming up with the methodology to identify people that can be successful in your system, and then giving them some space to fail and do it wrong and mess up and be messy, but work progress over perfection type thing.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: Am I reading that right?
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's one of the things that people say is a distinctive when they come here is like our tolerance for risk, our tolerance for people to try a new thing and see if it works.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, we're entrepreneurial at the end of the day, and you have to tolerate a little bit of room for let's try something new.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: So let's see if it's better, and then not just tear people apart when it didn't work the first time.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, that we learned a lot.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: That was a good experiment, and we're gonna rally the troops, we're gonna fix the mess, and we're gonna do it again, bringing what we learned to the next round.
17:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:36
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
17:36
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna add, and this one's really for the the old, all the LM family members here that have the all the highlights, like I do.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: I bet I got some highlights myself.
17:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the highlights going on, right?
17:50
SPEAKER_02: It's easy, and I've said it in the past, and I hear a lot of people say it now.
17:55
SPEAKER_02: It's like this generation, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, right now, they were saying that when I was 18 out in the field.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: So that's that's a legacy complaint or excuse.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: But like for real, for real, with one thing that it kind of bugs me, but I super, super appreciate is like the folks that are in their first zero to five years in our industry now, they are extremely skilled at advocating for themselves, which was a skill I never had.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: And as irritating as it is, it's what it is.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: And so we need to be flexible and like flex to appreciate that and bring them in.
18:33
SPEAKER_02: And even worse, like, here's the reality we don't have to be flexible, but the option of not being flexible is they ain't gonna put up with your craft and they're not gonna work under certain conditions because they don't have to.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: And so are you seeing that?
18:49
SPEAKER_02: I'm wondering, maybe this is too nosy, but in my head, if there's a younger generation, they went to work for one firm A, B, or C, and then they say, Oh no, they this is not, this is too much.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: They're expecting me to sacrifice my entire life for them.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: Then they come to you and say, Oh my god, this is exactly what I need.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: Are you seeing any signals like that?
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: I actually do think so.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, one of the things that we know from the research is that people's performance goes down after 50 hours a week.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, like exponentially.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know it anecdotally from living that I get more done in a good 45 hours than I do in 65 for sure.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: It's just exponentially just tanks my productivity.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, it's just smart to ask people to have rhythms of work and rest.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: Now, we don't say that we have work life balance because that's just not really realistic in construction.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: It's not, but it is important to cultivate habits of rest and work from a place of rest, not always just grind.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: That's the toughness that's actually not tough at all.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: Ooh, fake tough.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: So we're going to get into that.
20:05
SPEAKER_02: Now, for folks out there, another thing I got to brag a little bit, like the LM family members, the little community that I get to be a part of, a lot of those folks are forward thinking and want to build a similar experience that you guys are building over there at COBULD.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: And so are there any cheat codes, maybe specifically around when you're sourcing new hires?
20:30
SPEAKER_02: Is there a framework that you use, something that like a little pointer that you would give to the folks out there that want to build something amazing to help them select the best prospects?
20:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we have a whole process.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: I can tell you my whole process.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: We don't interview people individually.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: So we have a couple people where um a couple people from our team talking with someone else, and we do behavioral interviews.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: The my best question and my behavioral interview, I'm just gonna give it to you.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Is what misconceptions do people have about you?
21:02
SPEAKER_00: And the stories you get, and the behind the curtains, real understanding of what makes a person tick, come out when you ask them that question.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: They're just this is a powerful question.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: So we use that one.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: We do two interviews, we hopefully take people out to the job site to see their experience and their feedback to that.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: And then we work with an executive coach who actually does a tool called the iris to match that person to our culture and also like project construction management norms to see if there's a good match there.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: And then it can flag also some people who have some emotional growing up to do.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, we can legally do it because it's all coachable.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: It's not like this is not the end of the story.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: This is not a personality character quality.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: It's here's skill.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: We know going in.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we know what the gap is, and we have a remedy to close the gap if we continue to move forward.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: And that question, what misconceptions do people have about you?
22:08
SPEAKER_02: Which I know we're gonna get into this.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: That absolutely ties into the stories that we tell ourselves that keep us in maybe self-destructive behavior or limiting beliefs and influence how we show up.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna go there.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: And thank you for sharing like your process.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: You have the interview, you got the questions, behavioral questions, sounds like group interviews.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: Solid, solid question.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: I may be stealing it now.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: And you have an executive coach like built, like it's a system, it's a process, it's repeatable.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: You can test it, gauge it, measure it.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: Genius.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: Did you learn that in CEO school?
22:49
SPEAKER_02: Like you went and took some classes on how to be a CEO of a construction company.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that I learned in the school of hard knocks.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: I have paid my tuition.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: I yeah, I have a PhD from the School of Hard Knocks, I think.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: So we did it wrong.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: We've done it wrong before.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't serve anyone.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: That process came about because we had to get better.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: I did nerd out a bit, do a lot of research on what works, and we sort of felt our way through it too.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: So it was both organic and sort of systematic.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: And that's what we came up with to work.
23:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay, good.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: So iteration.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: You had an idea, tried it, not producing the outcome, tweaked it, adjust it, learn, tweaked it, adjust it, learn, and you're where you're at.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: Which what I love about that is there was a time in my life when I'm like, man, CEOs just know all the answers, right?
23:42
SPEAKER_02: All the fancy people know all the answers.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: And then as I progress in my career, I'm like, oh, nobody knows.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: We're figuring it out.
23:50
SPEAKER_02: Like, we're all figuring it out.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: This is awesome.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's important, like for the LM family member out there.
23:56
SPEAKER_02: Like, nobody knows.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you could start where somebody's at, but they're doing it under different conditions.
24:02
SPEAKER_02: You just gotta, you just gotta start doing the damn thing and practice, iterate and iterate, which is amazing.
24:09
SPEAKER_02: Now, I know that you like construction was not the primary objective for you.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: It was not.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: No.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: So and your path is amazing.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: So, would you mind letting the folks out there know like where you started and what that path was to be where you're at today?
24:32
SPEAKER_02: Because I love where you're at today, but I also love the path because that's pretty dang interesting.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it was not.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: Had you asked my 20-year-old self what I'd be when I grow up, this was not the answer that you got.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: I was at that point in college getting my English literature degree, which is so handy for construction.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: The one thing it did teach me actually is how to think.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a big deal.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: Being a good thinker, being a good learner does matter.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: So, my English literature and actually a good writer, those things did help me, but yeah, I had no ambitions to move into a construction career at all.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: I did instructional design for corporate spaces initially out of graduating.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: So, not my plan.
25:21
SPEAKER_02: Why were you going?
25:23
SPEAKER_02: Why were you studying English literature?
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, because I was 20 and I didn't know.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I liked reading.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: That literally, that is how I picked.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: I was 18.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: I I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: I found I was good at writing and I like to learn.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: And as it turns out, I'm a pretty good teacher.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: So I fell into instructional design after that, which it was fun.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: And I had a knack for it.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: So I did that.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: And then early-ish in my 20s, I had a whole bunch of kids.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: I had such, I don't, I'm so grateful on this side of it, but I had a span of time when I had three kids in three years, which is insanity.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: Do not recommend.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: Love my kids, love the relationship they have.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: That's it's craziness.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: So I was doing working for an organizational leadership management company at the time, tried working from home.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: At some point, it became the case that I my child care was too expensive.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: So I started staying at home, and then we ended up bringing another kid into our home through FOSS to adopt.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: So I had some years where my career just got what I believed was that my career had been sidelined and it had hit a pause.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: Now looking back, I can see the story unfolding differently.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: But at the time I was like, I don't know.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: I just, yeah, that there goes my resume.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, I had great years with my kids, and then our youngest came to us through foster care and had a background in trauma history.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: So all of the things I had been told about how to parent well stopped working.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: Like none of it worked.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: So it's like there's more going on than I understand.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: And like I told you, I like to learn, I'm pretty big nerd.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I started doing a deep dive into neuroscience of trauma.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, what's happening in a brain when people have a background of hard things?
28:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I started looking at like early IMPB research because what I knew about parenting wasn't working in any totally different model.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: And so we became trauma-informed parenting.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: And the funny thing is we became way better parents for all of our kids through that.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: But and then I ended up working with the University of Wisconsin on a program that they had to train practitioners on the neuroscience, what happens when kids have encountered hard histories caused brain differences.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, so so I nerded out there, and I didn't know how that would feather into construction at all.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, I didn't have any notion that it would, but a few years went on, I started doing some leadership with a nonprofit.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: I kind of always end up being falling into leadership roles.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not, I don't think I'm a particularly charismatic person or particularly brilliant, but I do kind of fall there.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: So I'd had opportunities to lead, even though I wasn't in a particular career path.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: I ended up doing that, building some leadership skills, being invited into some leadership development through that process.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: And then I had this background of neuroscience.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: About that time, my husband was like, I can't keep doing this.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: We're like barely making it.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: And he's working 60 hours a week.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: We don't see him.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't like how he's having to treat people to get the job done.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: And we're like, we gotta make a big change.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: This can't keep going.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: So we're like, well, I studied organizational leadership, I've done all this leadership work, and we've seen that we can do this better.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: That's where the co-build comes from.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: So we start co-build, and what I find pretty quickly is all that work I did to be trauma informed directly applies.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: Because the reality is what happens when you're in the trades or when you're on job sites, you basically get really beat up.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: You get really beat up over the years.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: And the neuroscience of trauma actually applies there.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: And what does it look like to actually heal up some of the stuff that happened and create a new way forward became part of who we became as Cobilt.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, oh, so much there.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: Definitely want to go.
30:38
SPEAKER_02: We're definitely gonna talk a little bit more about the trauma element because I'm with you.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: And it's like different levels, right?
30:45
SPEAKER_02: And as a trades professional installer, there's some neglect and abuse that comes with that from the job site, from the office, right?
30:54
SPEAKER_02: Like it's coming from everyone.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: And I honestly, I'm gonna say this it's not exclusive to just craft workers.
31:00
SPEAKER_02: I think every human is can be exposed to it.
31:03
SPEAKER_02: I'll say that, but I care more about me and my friends, so that's who I'm gonna focus on.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: Now, as a subcontractor, like now I'm not the installer, maybe I'm the foreman or superintendent.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: There's another flavor, if you will, of neglect and abuse.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: As a subcontractor, enterprise construction subcontractor company, there's another flavor of neglect and abuse.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: And so coming from the different angles and all those other things.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: So it's a real thing that it's interesting because I do a lot of work with general contractors, and the number one complaint that I've heard all my career, but even now in the work that I do is why aren't the trades more open and receptive?
31:44
SPEAKER_02: And it's well, let me tell you.
31:47
SPEAKER_02: They got a story, man.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: They got stories.
31:50
SPEAKER_02: Yes, like they it's and so I absolutely want to dive down there.
31:55
SPEAKER_02: But first, you talked about falling into leadership roles, which I'm kind of interpreting that you're just doing your thing, involved for whatever motivation you had to show up and sign up and be a part of the thing.
32:11
SPEAKER_02: And then you get invited to take a lead and kind of be run point on things.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: So one my first question there is have you ever like deflected or walked away from push back, not walked away, but pushed against it, resisted that those that situation?
32:30
SPEAKER_00: I think there's probably a season where I didn't really believe it was true about me that I was had the capacity to be a good leader, um, or that my resume wasn't shiny enough.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: Um so I think I had to get a bit over myself.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
32:49
SPEAKER_02: So how did you do that?
32:50
SPEAKER_02: Like that, that because I know exactly what you're talking about, sister.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: I've been there bunches of time.
32:54
SPEAKER_02: Why like well?
32:55
SPEAKER_02: It was twofold for me.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: It was like, that's just extra work, and I want to leave at 3:30.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: That was one part.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: But the other part was like, I why are you asking me?
33:04
SPEAKER_02: Like all these other people are here, why me?
33:07
SPEAKER_02: So how did for folks that are like in that situation?
33:10
SPEAKER_02: Because a bunch of us are there, like to your to use your language, different seasons of our life.
33:16
SPEAKER_02: What did you do?
33:18
SPEAKER_02: What was the thinking that you came to that helped you say, okay, screw it, I'm gonna do the thing?
33:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think there was a pivot for me where I learned that leadership can be learned, that it isn't like someone woke up and is brilliant at this, that they just are natural-born CEOs.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: It's I there's skill and there's reps and there's practice.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: And I found out that I kind of liked this stuff.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, I love learning about how people tick.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: And then I think it became the pivot was, oh, you can just learn this stuff.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Like you can learn anything else.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: You can learn to do a good job at this.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: And maybe have a little like I'm kind of good at it naturally, but you don't even really have to be.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: You have to be intentional about being a learner and humble enough to say, I don't know how to do this yet, but I'm gonna figure it out.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: So I think that was the pivot.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: And then I put my name in the hat a few times, which felt really scary.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh, actually, I do want to learn to be a better leader or I want an opportunity, and then you get what you asked for to some degree.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh my god, okay.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: So I love this because yes, it can you can totally learn it.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: I know for me, when I finally stopped resisting it, life got easier.
34:40
SPEAKER_02: I may never make it through your interview process, I'll just full confession because I didn't want the responsibility, but man, was I good at critiquing and complaining about everybody that was in leadership, right?
34:55
SPEAKER_02: And so finally I had a boss who told me, He's like, Jess, you don't have to, right?
35:02
SPEAKER_02: You get you're a great foreman, you make money, you make budget, but our clients hate you and guys quit on you.
35:09
SPEAKER_02: I was like, I know you need to hire better people and get better clients.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: And he said, No, sure, but if you don't start learning how to develop people, you're capped, you're gonna be a foreman.
35:23
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, and that's okay.
35:25
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, then fine, what are we talking about?
35:28
SPEAKER_02: And then he showed me the succession plan.
35:30
SPEAKER_02: I worked for a pretty progressive company back then, this was 2004 TD Industries, and he showed me the list, and I said, I ain't working for those dummies, like they were my four my competitors as foreigners.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm not working for those dummies.
35:43
SPEAKER_02: Well, here's the thing if you don't take the training that we're gonna offer you to build the skills to develop people, I don't want to hear you complain about that.
35:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I said, Well, sign me up for the stupid thing.
35:59
SPEAKER_02: So I was pretty resistant about it, which was interesting.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: By the time, similar to you, I discovered I had a knack for teaching and communicating and developing people.
36:10
SPEAKER_02: And luckily, I was with an organization that invested in me to do that.
36:14
SPEAKER_02: So, point of all those words is to say that when I stopped resisting it, things became easier and my career growth like grew exponentially, like not just within the organization, but within the industry.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: And so now, in terms of you, when you started throwing your name in the hat, because that's a big difference from saying, Well, okay, I'll do it, to like, hey, I want to be that person.
36:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what did you discover about yourself after throwing your name in the hat a couple times?
36:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, first that I could do it.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, and that everyone has imposter syndrome, that nobody knows.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: Most people are making it up.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's just the winners are the ones who put their weight over their skis and say, I'm gonna learn it and I'm gonna try and put themselves out there.
37:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:06
SPEAKER_02: So so I'm hearing, would I be lying if I said you were still a little nervous, still a little scared, still a little lost, even though you said yes, I'm gonna do this?
37:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, I feel like just about the time that you have you feel like you've got it figured out, life presents a new challenge, and you have to make a decision if you're gonna sit back or lean in.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Um so if you're not putting yourself in positions where you have to choose to lean into something that feels scary, you're sort of stagnating both in your career, but more just as a human being.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: Human beings require challenge to grow.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: Like come being comfortable doesn't get it done.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I think I'm I always go scared because if I'm not going scared, I'm not doing anything interesting.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love so I think you and I we're we come from the same loaf of bread.
38:09
SPEAKER_02: Because I people are like, why do you do still?
38:12
SPEAKER_02: Do you know what you're doing?
38:12
SPEAKER_02: No, but I'm gonna learn a lot of stuff along the way.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: Aren't you scared?
38:16
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:16
SPEAKER_02: It sounds like fun, otherwise, we're gonna keep doing the same thing.
38:19
SPEAKER_02: Who cares about that?
38:21
SPEAKER_02: Oh, so awesome.
38:22
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: So we've talked, I keep poking at this the neuroscience, the trauma, we'll just say recovery.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: Not dealing with, but more embracing the fact that our lives, many lives, are trauma-informed, and there's it must be because we're human and life is hard.
38:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes, and then there's this builder's grit, builders 360, the myth of toughness, and all of that is intertwined, yeah.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: Legacy construction works out of the myth of toughness.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: I grind, grind, suck it up, don't complain, work through pain, um, stuff the things that feel too hard to deal with, so people only see that you're tough and you handle it.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: And that that has been how it works.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: But what we know about doing that is actually it's the opposite of what actually builds the capacity to show up well in stressful situations.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: The tougher you are, the more it shrinks your ability to show up well.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: Actually, what literally happens is you from a neurological perspective, is our brain tips into what some people call fight or flight mode, but it's the limbic brain.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: So limbic brain is an emotional brain.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with emotions, but where good decision making happens is in the prefrontal cortex.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: When we're operating in fight or flight, the blood actually stops flowing to the good decision-making part of our brain.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: We no longer have access to curiosity and good decision making.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: And most of construction in the field works on tipping people into fight or flight, putting them under threat so they operate out of fight or flight, which shuts off the decision making part of everyone's brain.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: So you got a bunch of people building in fight or flight.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: It's craziness.
40:28
SPEAKER_02: I agree so, so much.
40:32
SPEAKER_02: Again, full confession, folks, because I I am a hypocrite, but not on this point.
40:37
SPEAKER_02: I have leveraged that.
40:40
SPEAKER_02: Decisions made under duress.
40:43
SPEAKER_02: Like I know how to apply the pressure and keep it on it.
40:47
SPEAKER_02: And people tell me what I want to hear.
40:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, okay, you agreed, you made a commitment.
40:51
SPEAKER_02: You got to be a man of your word.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: All of that wishy wash.
40:54
SPEAKER_02: And I love it.
40:54
SPEAKER_02: You said, like, that's fake.
40:57
SPEAKER_02: Because it doesn't, when it doesn't work out, I know that I pressured them into the thing.
41:05
SPEAKER_02: And when they can't do the thing, then I'm going to be surprised.
41:08
SPEAKER_02: No, dummy, we have to listen beyond what we want to hear.
41:12
SPEAKER_02: The idea of having that the blood flow in our prefrontal frontal cortex that stops when we're under pressure, when we're in fear, when we have these things going on, and we get into like super quick decision making to get out of the current threat.
41:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:30
SPEAKER_02: There's not a lot of logic in that.
41:32
SPEAKER_02: And to your point, like that's kind of how we do construction.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: It's insanity.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: It's truly insane.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, people are operating with half their brain tied behind their back, and they just build stuff that way.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: Um and I feel that, and the truth is you leverage it because it works in the short term.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: Fear burns hot and fast and gets stuff done.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: We're wired for it.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: If you need to go kill a bear or being chased by a tiger, whatever, that's functional, but it's not flourishing and it's short-lived.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: It burns, it burns hot and fast, and then you're done.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: And then you're left with the dub decision you made.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: With all the other stuff that's coming down the schedule, yeah.
42:17
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna paint a little picture and see if you've experienced I'm almost 10 years sober now.
42:22
SPEAKER_02: In June, it'll be 10 years sober.
42:24
SPEAKER_02: And so the previous time before that, the way I had designed my life was not intentional, but I had designed a lot of that pressure and short decision making.
42:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then when I started changing the way I think and slowing recognizing that there's a space between stimulus and response, and that I could choose within that space.
42:45
SPEAKER_02: Like I had that awakening from reading Victor Frankel's book, then things slowed down for me.
42:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: And I started, I stopped creating problems for myself, right?
42:58
SPEAKER_02: Because I was thinking more.
43:01
SPEAKER_02: And then this weird thing happened.
43:04
SPEAKER_02: All of a sudden, I was anxious because I didn't have the chaos I used to have.
43:11
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: I can tell you what's going on in your brain from a neurological perspective.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Tell me, please.
43:16
unknown: Okay.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: So what happens is we have our bodies like homeostasis.
43:22
SPEAKER_00: We operate well, have a high sense of well-being in this space where we're regulated, we have access to both our limbic brain and our prefrontal cortex.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: We're thinking well, we we can listen to what our emotions are telling us, right?
43:35
SPEAKER_00: People have a sense of what that feels like.
43:38
SPEAKER_00: Well-being feels like.
43:39
SPEAKER_00: Outside of well-being, under threat, we tip into fight or flight and we operate with our brain being flooded with cortisol and adrenaline.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: If you go a long time under cortisol and adrenaline, something else happens.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: You burn out your adrenals and you tip over outside of that into shutdown, a parasympathetic response.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: And it's literally your body preparing to die.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: Your body starts to get flooded with androgynous opioids.
44:07
SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, we know we tried fight or flight, it's not working.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: We might as well get comfortable because it's not going well for us.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: Actually, the crazy thing is it feels kind of okay there because your body is making opiates.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: I quit on workaholism.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: All of those things happen and their body starts to come out of fight or flight.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: You sometimes have seen it like in the animal kingdom when a deer has been chased and they freeze, and then as they come out of it, they get the shakes.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: That's basically what's happening.
44:50
SPEAKER_00: And you're you come back through fight or flight to get to homeostasis.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: And in that space, it feels not good.
44:58
SPEAKER_00: It does not feel good to have to address all the things you stuffed, but it's actually the only way really that you have a sense of well-being in a whole life.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: It really is.
45:08
SPEAKER_02: So that's what's going on.
45:12
SPEAKER_02: I've lived it, right?
45:13
SPEAKER_02: The word stuffed, there was a period, there was a point on my path where one night I cried for seven hours straight.
45:21
SPEAKER_02: Now, I wasn't sad, but tears were just flooding out of me.
45:27
SPEAKER_02: And I talked to a friend, and he was like, dude, he's not a neuroscientist, right?
45:32
SPEAKER_02: He's just helping me, he's been through the same thing, right?
45:35
SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Man, what it is, you've spent all these years of stuffing all of your feelings, like grief, sadness, disappointment, anger, celebration, joy.
45:49
SPEAKER_02: Like I stuffed everything because you're not, yep, that we ain't got time for that.
45:52
SPEAKER_02: Leave your feelings at home.
45:53
SPEAKER_02: That was of that mindset.
45:55
SPEAKER_02: He said, and the problem is there's you don't have any more room, and so now everything's gonna come out the way it needs to come out.
46:03
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, and that's exactly what it felt like stuff was coming out.
46:05
SPEAKER_02: What in what's going on?
46:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm losing my mind, and it it was it was significant, and so I share all of that one so that folks, if you're in the crisis state, is the language I'll use, and you've been there for a long time, and you start making decisions to kind of smooth that out, expect it to get a little funky, like it's gonna get a little weird, but you can get out of it.
46:26
SPEAKER_02: Now, what I'm ultra ultra not just excited about but impressed and in love with is that you have created or co-created something that addresses the trauma and this whole transformation for construction professionals.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
46:48
SPEAKER_02: Please tell the world what that is because we need it, sister.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, it I just I have a son who's he's an amazing superintendent, but I had some misgivings about having him in the industry because I did not want for him what I had seen.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: I thought we have got to change this.
47:12
SPEAKER_00: I want my kid to have a whole life and a life of well-being.
47:16
SPEAKER_00: And if we keep going down this path where we people expect people to live in shutdown, then that's not a life I want for my kid.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: Love it.
47:25
SPEAKER_00: So out of that and the work that we felt really truly called to came this grit and resilience cohort that we've taken people through.
47:34
SPEAKER_00: So builders grit.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: The idea is grit is the capacity to tolerate stress well and not be pushed, what we can call sometimes our window of tolerance, not be pushed outside of that very easily.
47:48
SPEAKER_00: We have access to a prefrontal cortex under stress.
47:51
SPEAKER_00: And that's a skill that you can develop and grow so that you can tolerate more and more stress.
47:57
SPEAKER_00: So that's having grit as opposed to toughness where you stuff until you basically are your body's flooded with androgynous.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
48:05
SPEAKER_00: So we want that.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: That's grit.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: But the other skill is resilience.
48:09
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you're just gonna get pushed outside of what feels like safety.
48:13
SPEAKER_00: Threat is happening because we live in the real world.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: So the second skill people need is the ability to go back into that space of grit quickly.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: So both grow your space of grit and return to it quickly.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: So we've developed this cohort system where we take folks in folks in construction through it.
48:31
SPEAKER_00: So we have two kind of two offerings right now.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: The one that we've done the most of and is really powerful.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: I'd invite people to be a part of it, is this like an eight-week course where you're learning this model and the tools to grow grit and return back into tolerance.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: So you're learning this kind of new frame of reference, but in the context of other people with other leaders, other people in the industry.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: And then you're practicing it and processing it together.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: So it's eight-week, eight-week thing.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:01
SPEAKER_00: And then because this can sound woo to folks who haven't been through it, I think it's life-changing, but it sounds crazy.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: Um also have an hour and a half workshop that we're inviting people to just get a taste so they can just get a sampling of what it's like to be a part of that.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:19
SPEAKER_00: So if you're interested in it, I can I do my own little plug here.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: So it's builder360.com is the website, and there's opportunities to join a workshop to see what it's about.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: And then you apply to be a part of a cohort because it matters who's in the core cohort together, if you're really invested in it, it's a commitment.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: But I do think it's transformational for the leaders and then the people that they lead.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
49:47
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so folks, you heard it?
49:49
SPEAKER_02: Builders360.org.
49:52
SPEAKER_00: Or build B oh BLDR360.com.
49:58
SPEAKER_00: So build on 360.
50:00
SPEAKER_02: Builder BLDR360.com.
50:04
SPEAKER_02: Folks, y'all already know.
50:06
SPEAKER_02: Sign up.
50:09
SPEAKER_02: Sign up for the webinar, the hour and a half thing, and then sign and then register for the full day thing.
50:15
SPEAKER_02: All my leaders out there, my movers and shakers, my make it happeners, you need to sign up and do a test drive and then recommend it to your firm and the people in your industry because we gotta make it.
50:26
SPEAKER_02: I would I'd be wrong if I said we're all dealing with some degree of trauma.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that you're, I mean, if you're over about two years old, I think that you can say that's true.
50:39
SPEAKER_00: You just don't end up an adult in the world without having gone through something that is what would scientifically be framed as trauma, which is basically when you're pushed out your capacity and you feel all the way alone.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: And that happens to people.
50:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, it applies to everybody, and it doesn't have to be dramatic, it can be just life, it also can be really dramatic.
51:04
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, no, totally.
51:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've had we'll say debates with people about what trauma is and what trauma isn't, and or I love this phrase, I've been in conversations that are like the trauma Olympics.
51:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my trauma's worse than your trauma type thing.
51:22
SPEAKER_02: Your trauma's not that because it's not as juicy or dark as mine is, and like I recognize, or rather, I've chosen to believe that it's relative, like the worst thing that's ever happened to me is the worst thing that's ever happened to me, and it's the same for everybody else, and so it from that perspective, they don't have to have been wrestling with addiction, right?
51:49
SPEAKER_02: Have experienced a rock bottom, right?
51:51
SPEAKER_02: Like, there's it's a matter of where we are, it's all relative.
51:54
SPEAKER_02: So, all that to say, folks, we if you're over two years old, you experience some trauma, and you should check this thing out.
52:03
SPEAKER_02: And now the eight-week the eight-session deal, is that like a webinar, or is that an or do you fly us off to the Virgin Islands and we all kind of retreat out there?
52:13
SPEAKER_02: What does that look like?
52:14
SPEAKER_00: I wish it doesn't seem too practical.
52:18
SPEAKER_00: So I would also open up some spots on a webinar for free.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: I forgot to mention this.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: If you're a listener to this podcast, I don't know the best way to reach out, but I can give you a coupon code to join that.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: Join that it might have to be in show notes, honestly.
52:34
SPEAKER_00: Um I can give you a coupon code for folks that have listened to this podcast are interested in learning a little bit about building grit and what the whole model's about.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: We'll open up some spots for folks who've listened and that's what I'm talking about.
52:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there's that, and then this the cohort thing, it works like we give you some training, you're part of a cohort of seven to ten folks.
53:05
SPEAKER_00: It's not bigger than that because it's it really is you're getting to know people.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: We provide you some content, you talk through it with your team of cohorts.
53:16
SPEAKER_00: It does require a certain level of vulnerability, looking at your own stuff, um, becoming self-aware, but you're doing it in a small group of people.
53:24
SPEAKER_00: And as you work through it together, you realize, oh, everybody's in the middle of this stuff.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: It's not just me, which is one of the most important things to truly know.
53:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
53:34
SPEAKER_00: And then we give you stuff to practice.
53:36
SPEAKER_00: So we'll give you ways to grow your grit.
53:39
SPEAKER_00: There are practical tools for that.
53:41
SPEAKER_00: You go practice them for a week, we come back, learn a little bit more, and we process what it was like to practice those things, what worked and what didn't.
53:48
SPEAKER_00: And we do that over the course of eight weeks.
53:51
SPEAKER_02: So oh my goodness.
53:52
SPEAKER_00: It's all online.
53:53
SPEAKER_00: We're doing it all online, hour and a half cohort, hour and a half meetings.
53:57
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: That's a light list.
53:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's partly we found that it works best when we see each other's faces.
54:04
SPEAKER_00: So you have to be on a Zoom meeting where you can there's few enough people that you can see everyone's face.
54:11
SPEAKER_02: Got it.
54:12
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
54:13
SPEAKER_02: Oh, all right.
54:14
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm interested, and I'll yeah, I gotta look into it.
54:18
SPEAKER_02: I'll apply.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: Now, I just want to be clear I'm not applying for a job because I don't think I will make that cut.
54:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you would be hiring a RB.
54:28
SPEAKER_02: That might be difficult.
54:29
SPEAKER_02: I got some things, some issues that I haven't let go of yet.
54:32
SPEAKER_00: Don't we all?
54:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:35
unknown: Yeah.
54:36
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love this so so much.
54:38
SPEAKER_02: So again, I want to make two points, and then I'm gonna make uh an exception.
54:44
SPEAKER_02: And usually I only have one closing question, but I'm gonna have two this time.
54:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
54:49
SPEAKER_02: But before I ask those questions, the two points I want to make is, and one is just like I need want to say it.
54:59
SPEAKER_02: I wish I could say it in such a way that it would never escape your memory.
55:05
SPEAKER_02: But what you're doing, what y'all have done and continue to do with the we'll say purpose behind Cole Build of treating people better and putting like everybody providing a different, meaningful experience is I mean, I've been in the industry since 1995.
55:25
SPEAKER_02: And for a company, a decision maker, CEO, to say, this is our mission, we're figuring it out, but this is our mission.
55:34
SPEAKER_02: I've come across, I can easily say, hundreds of general contractors, hundreds of construction leaders, and none of them, you are the first that says, This is what we're doing.
55:47
SPEAKER_02: And it's not just marketing, you have systems to to facilitate that, and you're going beyond that to improve the industry, and so you're amazing.
56:02
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for doing that.
56:04
SPEAKER_02: That's the first point I want to make.
56:06
SPEAKER_02: The second point I want to make is to all your competitors out there that continue to play the old game.
56:17
SPEAKER_02: You can continue to play that, but you're gonna get smoked by leaders like Ms.
56:23
SPEAKER_02: Wood.
56:24
SPEAKER_02: I pinky promise you, in the next five to eight years, you are not going to be able to do business the way you've been doing it anymore.
56:33
SPEAKER_02: You can't just throw money at problems anymore.
56:35
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be in a situation where you have to significantly change the way you treat people, or you're gonna die.
56:43
SPEAKER_02: And so maybe you should do a little research right now and sign up at bldr360.com to get off the path that you're on because it's not you're not helping people.
56:53
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not talking to you.
56:54
SPEAKER_00: You're not helping yourself, frankly.
56:56
SPEAKER_02: It's miserable.
56:57
SPEAKER_02: I've played that game, I know how to scream and yell and cuss and throw hard hats at each other.
57:02
SPEAKER_02: I know how to play that game, but it was emotionally taxing.
57:07
SPEAKER_02: I did not like the person I was, it hurt my feelings that I didn't have friends, that I never got invited to lunch, that I didn't get swag from the other companies, but I was doing my job and I hated it.
57:20
SPEAKER_02: And then when I switched, I got invited to lunches, I had friends, I'd get swag.
57:25
SPEAKER_02: It was like, and it was so much easier, it was just a shift in my thinking.
57:30
SPEAKER_02: So there you go, folks.
57:32
SPEAKER_02: If you're mad at me, call my mom if you don't like what I said.
57:36
SPEAKER_02: So it is time for the two closing questions.
57:40
SPEAKER_02: You ready?
57:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, question number one What misconceptions do people have about you?
57:51
SPEAKER_00: You threw it back at me.
57:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think in people don't expect me to be the CEO of a construction company.
58:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah oftentimes I'll walk into a room and they'll think I'm like a controller or the bookkeeper, and you're like, please do not let me touch the books.
58:11
SPEAKER_00: So that would be disastrous for all involved.
58:14
SPEAKER_00: I think they're just not used to seeing, well, frankly, women in his executive roles in construction companies.
58:21
SPEAKER_00: That's one thing.
58:22
SPEAKER_00: And the other thing is maybe I'm not that I'm not that tough really.
58:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm just committed to learning.
58:29
SPEAKER_00: So I can be a bit of a softie, but yeah.
58:32
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
58:33
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
58:34
SPEAKER_02: Well, and I want to, it's kind of changed.
58:36
SPEAKER_02: I've been in it since '95, but there was a period of time where the woman CEO was like never the face of the company.
58:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:47
SPEAKER_02: It was for tax breaks and all of that stuff that comes with being a minority-owned business and whatever.
58:55
SPEAKER_02: I love that you're out in front and visible, like a visible representative of your company and the things that you're doing.
59:02
SPEAKER_02: And I know that it's going to inspire other women to get in front, right?
59:06
SPEAKER_02: Because there's a lot of stuff in our head that says, no, I don't want to just get in front.
59:10
SPEAKER_02: It's going to be okay.
59:11
SPEAKER_02: And you're doing it well.
59:13
SPEAKER_02: Which takes us to our second question, which I think is going to be super massive just because of all the things that you're doing and the reasons you're doing them.
59:22
SPEAKER_02: Because anybody can start a construction business.
59:25
SPEAKER_02: But the reason you're doing it, I think, is just going to be have it's going to have impact.
59:30
SPEAKER_02: My money says it's having impact for generations right now.
59:34
SPEAKER_02: Meaning the people on your employees, like your staff, are going home and having a better being better for their families.
59:46
SPEAKER_02: And the people that are on your projects, the subcontractors, foreman superintendents, because they're being treated with respect and appreciation, they're going home and being better for their families.
59:59
SPEAKER_02: And so you're already having generational impact with what you're trying to do.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_02: And my money says it's going to be exponentially greater as we go forward.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_02: So here's the last and final question: What is the promise you are intended to be?
1:00:16
SPEAKER_00: The mission of COBILD is to create environments for people to succeed.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_00: I feel like my calling really is to create environments for people to flourish.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_00: So I can't pick flourishing for anyone.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_00: People have to pick it for themselves, but I can set the table and invite them to a different way of being.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's my That's my calling is to create environments where people could choose to flourish.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_02: So you're not pushing them into it.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_02: Here are the conditions.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_02: I could help you, but you got to decide you want to come play.
1:00:56
SPEAKER_02: For sure.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_02: That's powerful.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_02: Because I'm the other way.
1:00:59
SPEAKER_02: I like pushing people over the edge.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_00: I do too.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't work.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_00: Does it work?
1:01:05
SPEAKER_00: But it's so fun.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_00: I have big sister energy.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_00: And so I can I've tried that approach.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't work that well.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh, you're so painting.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, did you have fun?
1:01:20
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_00: So fun.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_00: So fun.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_00: It's great to spend time with you.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_02: Likewise, likewise.
1:01:25
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sticking it out all the way to the end.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_02: I know you got a whole lot of stuff going on.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_02: And in appreciation for the gift of time that you have given this episode, I want to offer you a free PDF of my book, Becoming the Promise You're Intended to Be.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_02: The link for that bad boy is down in the show notes.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_02: Hit it.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_02: You don't even have to give me your email address.
1:01:46
SPEAKER_02: There's a link in there.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_02: You just click that button, you can download the PDF.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_02: And if you share it with somebody that you know who might feel stuck or be caught up in self-destructive behaviors, that would be the ultimate.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_02: You sharing that increases the likelihood that it's going to help one more person.
1:02:07
SPEAKER_02: And if it does help one more person, then you're contributing to me becoming the promise I am intended to be.
1:02:16
SPEAKER_02: Be kind to yourself, be cool, and we'll talk at you next time.