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Sherlock Holmes: The Man, The Myth · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we're here to sniff
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: you up the case with our brand new episode on
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Have you ever read any Sherlock Holmes short stories or
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: one of the four novels?
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: You should have started that off with, Josh, Josh, Yeah,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: I have. I've never read the novels, but I've read
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: quite a bit of the short stories.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Yeh oh, okay, I didn't know you were Sherlockian.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not. I would not call myself that because if
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: you are Sherlockian or in the UK Holmesian, you are
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: like one of the original fans of fandom. And I
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: mean I'm not there, Like I don't qualify. No, okay, okay,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: more than me. So have you read any not a one? Oh,
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: you're missing out. They're really interesting and fun.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean not only that, I haven't really seen
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: any of the stuff either.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: There's some really good movies out there. Last night, just
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: to brush up, I watched The House of Fear. Okay,
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: just based on the short story of the Five Orange
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Pips and it's really good. Basil Rathbone and Nigel Rogers
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: and just the straight ahead, mid century black and white
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes mystery that you think of when you think
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: of a Sherlock Holmes movie, or most people do. So
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: they're good, They're really the movies are generally good. I've
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: seen the worst version. People call the worst version Holmes
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: and wattson you saw that, No, But I watched a
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: clip and I was like, this is not that bad.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: This is exactly what you'd expect from Will Ferrell and
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: John c Riley, Like, what were you thinking it's gonna
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: be like high art or something like that.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I just heard it was zero five, not
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: that they were expecting something, you know. Posh.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Well the clip I saw was at least one and
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: a half percent fun. Okay, it has a half of
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: a star on Rotten Tomatoes.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: All right, well, let's get into it because this is a.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Lot wait wait, wait, hold on, hunt, let me just
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: wrap this up. Okay, yes, you should read some of
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: the home stories. Okay, okay, yeah, let's get into it now.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, we're talking about Sherlock Holmes, the infamous,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: the famous, fictional detective. I learned. I was about to
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: say a lot, but basically everything about this was new
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: to me. So I learned everything brand new. I was
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: this day years old when I learned everything. But one
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: of the things that I did I did not know
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: for sure is that I always thought he was an
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: official like Scottland Yard detective. I did not know that
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: he was an amateur sleuth and that maybe he worked,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: you know, alongside Scottland Yard at times, but I just
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: figure he was part of Scotland Yard.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: No, he is the world's first consulting detective. That's what
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Arthur Quinnan Doyle, the author called him. Another term for
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: that as a private eye.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: So he would work with Scotland Yard sometimes, but most
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: of the time he was several steps ahead of Scotland
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Yard whenever they did come in to arrest somebody.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, like I mentioned, there were four novels, there
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: were fifty six short stories over about a four decade
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: plus period, which is a lot of writing. And apparently,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: and this is in twenty twelve, and he's been in
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: quite a few more adaptations since then, but he's Yeah,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: he's the most frequently portrayed human literary character ever in
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: film and TV.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, two hundred and fifty four times.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Well, no way more than that, now picked.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: It, yes, by seventy five actors.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, more than that now.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: At the time in twenty twelve, the non human who'd
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: been most adapted was Dracula, and he only had Sherlock
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Colmbs beat by like a handful. Oh okay, so there
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: you go, Sherlock Colmbs. Everybody loves to portray him, and
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: that's something we'll try to get to the bottom of here,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: because what we're talking about is one hundred and nearly
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: fifty year old, like detective pulp fiction that has chapters
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: of fans all over the world. Sherlock Colmbs is one
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: of the most famous characters ever written in the history
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: of literature, and people are nuts for him still today,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: and some people just like don't get it, and there's
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: something to get, but not everybody can put their finger
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: on it, and we probably won't either, but we'll try.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I think I never read it because
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I just don't read mysteries like that.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Well, one of the things that separates him from the
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: mysteries is that he uses deductive reasoning like Agatha Christie.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: It's like can you guess who it is? Maybe there's
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: a clue or something in there. More often than not,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: there's really nothing in there that can tell you who
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: who did it? With Sherlock Holmes, it might not be
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: in there either. But what he uses is deductive reasoning,
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: where the kind of logic and reasoning he's using, like
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: anybody has that potential at faculty, he's just particularly gifted
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: with it. So he's I don't know, he's like a
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: machine as far as logic goes. But he's also a
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: deeply flawed person in a lot of ways too. I
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: think that makes him really interesting.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and actually I need to correct myself. I did
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Encyclopedia Brown, as I've mentioned before, and that's where that
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: train ended for me.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, it's an elementary school. Yeah, but I mean
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: what a ride it was, right.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: That was pretty great. Watson, this is sidekick. We'll talk
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: a lot about him as we go, And the first
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: one was a study in Scarlet in eighteen eighty seven.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: And I mean, let's go ahead, and I guess just
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about how who Holmes is as
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: a character. He's he's definitely like portrayed as like a genius.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: He sometimes can be very sort of flippant and arrogant.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: He's not very emotional. Watson says, you know that he
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: has no interest in women, and that there's been speculation
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: that Sherlock Holmes is a gay character. He's I believe.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Watson described him in a Scandal in Bohemia from eighteen
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: ninety one as the most perfect reasoning and observing machine
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: that the world has seen. But as a lover, he
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: would have placed himself in a false position.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which you don't want to do, especially as a
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: gentleman in Victoria in England, right.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and a bit of enigma, right as far as
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: just kind of personal life. Yeah.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: The reason why is because it was not a main
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: driver of the series. Ye that Conandoah wrote like there
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: were allusions to his life outside of his mysteries, Like
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: he's well known to have a brother named Mike Croft.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: He was really passionate about boxing, and he played the violin.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: He was also very famous for intravenously injecting cocaine in
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: a seven percent solution, and these things were just kind
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: of referred to here or there early on. The cocaine
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: was kind of a driver of his character. He was
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: very self obsessed. He was very melancholy, like he would
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: shoot cocaine to like basically get through the tedium of
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: a day because he was so smart he couldn't possibly
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: do so otherwise. But then as he developed, he became
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: less of a well a cocaine addict and more of
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: a fully fleshed out character who's the point and purpose
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: was to figure out how to solve these mysteries using
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: logic and deduction, and that's what he really became more
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: than anything else.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they've if you've seen, if you haven't read,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: and you've only seen like movie and TV versions, you've
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: seen a lot more of a character called Irene Adler.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Irene Adler exists far more in the TV and film side.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: I believe she was only in one story, so she's
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: been much much more portrayed on screen as maybe a
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: maybe a love interest, maybe a what's the word I'm
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: looking for, sort of like a foil at times, not
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: quite like a Moriarty level professor. Moriarty is often the
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: main foil and sort of evil criminal mastermind. But Adler
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: definitely exists a lot more in the film and television world.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in the world of Sherlock Holmes fans, they call
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: her the woman. She's the woman who like.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: He called her that.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Oh did he call her that? Okay? Yeah, So like
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: she's the one who caught his attention by foiling his
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: his investigation, Like he figured out what happened, but he
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: didn't catch the criminal, and that really caught his attention.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I think he'd only been thwarted like four times, and
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: she was one of them. Right.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: He's also been like famously diagnosed retroactively with everything from
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: bipolar two disorder, depression, Asperger's syndrome, and he's also commonly
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: given an i NTJ personality hype from the Myers Briggs test,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: which is analytical, logical and with a strong intuition that
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: seems to fit does so, going back out into the
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: real world, if you're going to take the Doilian view
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: of all this stuff that it's actually fiction written by
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Arthur Conan Doyle. The whole thing started in eighteen eighty six,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: I think when the first one that you just mentioned
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: to study in Scarlet was published in Breton's Christmas Annual.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I think it was eighty seven eighty seven, correct it.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Because there are Sherlockeans and Homians Homesians.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, we should have totally given a CoA
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: at the beginning of this.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're going to be minor errors here and there.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Everyone sure.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: So eighteen eighty seven, the first story comes out study
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: in Scarlett. I think it's actually a novel, and it
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: was published in this Christmas annual and it didn't take
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: off like a rocket until he started publishing the shorter
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: stories in a magazine called The Strand. And this is
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: at the time that Strand mag Maine was the most
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: widely circulated monthly magazine in all of Britain. And it
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: just so happened that Conan Doyle was writing these stories
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: at a time when Britain had suddenly become a lot
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: more literate and they were hungry for new fiction. So
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: he really kind of came in and brought Sherlock Holmes
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: in it just the right time.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so people are reading this thing like crazy. I
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: think they ended up collecting those short stories in well,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: a collection called The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, and like
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: you said, that was where I mean. I'm sure the
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: novels are great, but he only did four of them,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: and it's really it seems like these short stories is
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: where he found a place to sell a lot more stuff.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: But you know, I guess sell is one way to
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: say it, or write a lot more stuff, because you know,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: there were less than ten thousand words. They were even
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: short for detective short stories at the time, and I
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: think they appealed to younger people quite a bit from
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: what I've.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Read, Yeah, because at the time, the younger generation, we're
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: the ones who had just been educated through the public
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: education system that had just been developed, so they were
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: more likely to be able to read than their parents,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: just statistically speaking.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they didn't want to read some long novel.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: They wanted to read a short story. Yeah.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: And also one of the other things too that Conan
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Doyle figured out early on that I think people appreciate
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: because it's so comfortable and familiar, is essentially the same
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: formula for basically every single one of the stories.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which I mean it's like Encyclopedia Brown. In any
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: kind of detective story, you're going to have a client
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: come in or you know, it evokes fill Noir as well.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: A client comes in in this case to the very
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: famous office to twenty one B Baker Street, and the
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: client themselves are going to be sort of picked apart
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: by Homes at the beginning, and he's going to make
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of deductions about them and then evaluate the
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: case and then you know, hit the streets, maybe maybe
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: in disguise and start doing the investigating of course, solve
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: the case, capture the bad guy, and then explain it
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: all the Watson Scooby Doo style at the end. Which
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, is this I know Holmes wasn't the first.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Then we'll get into that fictional detective, but is this
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: how that sort of trophy formula started?
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So none of the first fictional detectives did things
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: No, not in any kind of formula like that as
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: far as I know. And there were only maybe a
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: dozen that came before him, but they were all just
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: kind of throwing stuff at the fridge to see what stuck.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: It was Arthur Conan Doyle who's the one who really
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: figured it all out and just ran with it.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. They were illustrated by a guy named Sidney Paget,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: and as far as the look of Holmes, that was
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: model on Paget's brother Walter, and you know, it would
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: just interpret whatever Doyle was writing as far as what
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: he would draw. So in the book, for instance, you know,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: there's two things, even if you don't know anything about
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes, and in fact, you probably call it the
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes hat and the Sherlock Holmes pipe. Yeah, that
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: big curvy, huge bell pipe. And then that deer stalker cap.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: That's what it's, you know, it's what it technically is.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: But everyone else just calls it the Sherlock Holmes hat.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: But in the book Doyle just says it's a close
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: fitting cloth cap. He doesn't say he wore his deer
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: stalker cap that was an invention of Sidney Paget.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that pipe is called a calibash pipe. And
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: like you said, I mean like draw you right, you
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: could draw like just a minimalist profile of just those
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: two things, and around the world people would know exactly
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: who that was.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: It's like the when Michael Jordan had the Hitler mustache
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: in that TV commercial. I forgot them and everyone's like,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: why do you have a Hitler mustache? Right? I totally
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: forgot Yeah, I mean that one's you can't have that
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: mustache anymore and he's no, no, no, I feel like
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: he should have known that.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: No, you really couldn't from basically the nineteen thirties on
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: where it was off the table.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean not even It's not like he was
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: doing it as an homage.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: I don't think so.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: But it was definitely like what world is Michael Jordan
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: living in Ray doesn't know that? Just nobody does that.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: It's funny.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: So just one thing real quick for the Sherlockians and
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: the Homesians. I saw that it is contested that Walter
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Sydney's brother was the model. Apparently Sidney claimed he wasn't
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: everyone says that he was. So maybe Sidney Pagett was
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: just a pathological liar.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Maybe. I mean, I'd have to see a picture of
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Walter too, you know, to know for sure.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good way to put two
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: and two together, I think, very homesy and in your
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: approach elementary. You want to take a break and come back.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, good timing. We'll be a background for this.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: By the way, we're back, And I said elementary. Apparently
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: that wasn't something Doyle wrote that came from one of
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: the movies, right.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: The movies are the first stage play one of the two.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe stage play yeah.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: I think the closest he wrote was exactly my dear Watson.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: So close.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, not in Doyle, but elementary so much. That's
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: way catch here for sure.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: So the the books themselves, or the stories themselves are
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: meant to be accounts of the cases of Sherlock Holmes
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: that were written by his sidekick, friend and roommate, John
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Hamish Watson. He's a doctor, doctor John. Yeah, that's that
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: was his sidekick.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: So was that the one who was about spending the
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: night together there?
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Uh? Yeah, I don't know much about doctor John. I
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: do know that he was the inspiration for the Muppet band, right.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Oh no, okay, that's a different way. No, I think
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: there's doctor Hooks in the Medicine show. I was just
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: doing Doctor John is awesome. I saw him open for
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Cindy Lauper once. Oh wow, that was quite a combination,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: it really is. No, this is a different doctor John.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: This is doctor John Watson's sidekick to Sherlock Holmes, and
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: he supposedly is the one who's narrating and recounting all
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: of these things.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and right away, right off the bat, he is
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: sort of picked apart and deduced by Holmes. When they
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: first meet, Watson was an army medic that was wounded
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: at the Battle of Maywand in Afghanistan, and Holmes picks
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: this up and Watson is like, oh my god, who
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: is this guy? Like, I can't believe this dude has
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: nailed this facet of my life right away.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It was the first of many, many, many times
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Watson would be astonished by Holmes's deductive reasoning skills.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's kind of the heart, right, like a Parenturrently,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Holmes isn't the most likable guy, but Watson really brings
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: the sort of heart to it.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, he's warm, he's empathetic, he's just much It's
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: basically like you and me, right, Like, you're the heart,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: You're the approachable guy, you're the folks he one. I'm
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: the one that's got this general please don't touch me vibe.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: It's a bit like that. I'm not putting myself on
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: the same level of Shirlock Holmes, but in that sense,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: I feel like we resemble it too.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's just because you don't want people to
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: touch you please. You know, you can buy it honestly.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it's not like a put
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: on or anything. I really don't want to be touched.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: So we mentioned that there were fictional detectives before. We
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: don't have to really go through, but there were like
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: thirteen that preceded him. But Holmes is really the one
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: that came along, like you said, and use this scientific
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: reasoning and powers of deduction. And it wasn't just some dumb,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: blundering criminal, right that kind of gives himself away, and
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: we'll get into, you know, sort of why, but it's
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: because Doyle himself was medically trained and super on the
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: just in the know about what was going on with
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: modern policing and forensics and stuff like that.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so because of that he was able to
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: like really razzle dazzle is audience, Like it's stuff that
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: is just totally commonplace to us, was cutting edge of
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: the time, like collecting blood samples, analyzing like dust and
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: dirt and stuff like that to figure out where it
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: came from, looking at handwriting, microscopes, finger printing. All these
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: things were like brand spanking new in some cases where
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: his audience wouldn't have even heard of or thought about
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: this stuff. Sherlock Holmes is employing these techniques and in
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: the one. On the one hand, it is very razzle
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: dazzle like just as cutting edge as possible at the time.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: But on the other hand too, he's he's basically he's
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: using science. He's using rational science and the scientific method
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: in applying it to solve any problem. And that was
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: very much like part of pop culture at the time.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: This was prior to World War One, where we showed
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: like just how horrible science can go, where everybody was
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: all about science. Science can solve any single problem, and
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes is the embodiment of that.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure we should tick through a few more
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: of Holmes's sort of superpowers. As written by Doyle, this
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: is a pretty fun one that he could. He could
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: tell what a man did for a living by his fingernails,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: by his coat sleeve, by his boots, by his trouser knees,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: by the callusis of his forefinger and thumb, by his expression,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: by his shirtcuff. He was a safe cracker and a
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: lock picker. Apparently, could tell the difference between one hundred
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and forty different types of tobacco ash and forty two
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: different bike tire treads.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, this is Virginia Slim.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's pretty fun though, like a pretty fun thing
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: to write, like a someone with almost superhuman. I mean,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: people have made the case that he's sort of the
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: first superhero in a way.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, And but he's again he's not. He's
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: a human person, like you know what I mean, Like
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: he is a genius he does have right, Yes, it
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: is true, and I think that kind of makes Batman
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: more accessible than say spider Man.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Well, spider Man was real too, Yeah.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: But he was bitten by a radio active spider.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, I see what you mean.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Sure, Batman came again, came across his powers through vas Yeah,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: and enormous as well, for sure. But one of the
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: things that that Holmes was famous for, too, Chuck, is
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: he was able to hone in so fully on catching
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: somebody because he was very selective about the knowledge he
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: took on. In some cases, he was just ignorant about
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: stuff that anybody walking around would know about it. I
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: think there was a time where in one of the
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: stories where doctor Watson is explaining to him that the
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Earth travels around the Sun, and Sherlock Holmes is like,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: not only do I not know that, I'm going to
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: forget it now because I very carefully curate the information
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: that goes into my mind, because I only want the
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: stuff in there that's going to help me solve cases.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I would suggest that that actually could maybe come in
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: handy with shadows and time changes and stuff like that,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: but maybe not. Maybe he didn't need that.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: You would have been a good Watson, actually, Sherlock, if
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: you think about it, and he's like, no, no, no, no no.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I feel like I really would have annoyed Sherlock Holmes
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: if I had been a sidekick.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: We both would have. So he's generally trying to do
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: the right thing. He's trying to catch the bad guy,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: he's trying to aid the desperate. For the most part,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: he protects England from Corruption's there was a time where,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: and Doyle wrote this into the stories where there were
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: some just sort of notorious failures of the police not
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: catching Jack the Ripper being one of them, and so
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: he would like he would compensate for those failures. And
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: you know, even though he didn't have like maybe the
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: best personality, he was all about business and all about
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: getting it done.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: And he was a Victorian gentleman, so he was an
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: upholder of the social order and social hierarchies. He knew
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: how to navigate that stuff. But at the same time
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: he was also a critic of them. Like he saw
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: very clearly just how arbitrary and capricious the social hierarchies
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: in Great Britain were and are, and he criticized them
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: personally to himself. He made no effort or action to
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: make any changes to them. He just saw them for
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: what they were, which was fraudulent and harmful.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Typically, Yeah, for sure, we should probably talk a little
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: bit more about Doyle. He was from Edinburgh, a town
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: that we have performed live in, one of the great
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: towns in Scotland.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: One of the great towns in the world.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I should have broadened that out. It was amazing.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: There's only like two pounds in Scotland.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, come on, we were got such a good fath there.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: He trained to become a doctor, so we had medical training.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: And it looks like he worked as a sort of
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: ship doctor on some like a whaling vessel and a
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: cargo steamer in West Africa. And he was always a
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: you know, a good and talented writer. And apparently while
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: he was you know, not getting his medical practice going
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: to the degree where he could sustain himself financially. He
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: wrote this very first story. He still looked for three
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: pounds to a periodical and the only, well seemingly the
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: only reason he got his first novel, A Study in
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Scarlett published, was because the wife of a publisher at
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Wardlocking Company was like, you got to publish this guy's novel.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: It's like it's really good.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're like, we'll give you twenty five pounds
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: for it was about think two hundred pounds today. Maybe
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure I did the conversion, but I can't
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: read my own handwriting. And they were the ones who
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: published that Breton's Miss Annuel, so that's where it first
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: popped up. But after it started to get more and
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: more popular when they appeared in Strand Magazine, he started
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: to be able to command a little more money. So
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: he sold a dozen to Strand Magazine for one thousand pounds,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: which today would be about one hundred and ten thousand
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: pounds or one hundred and fifty thousand US dollars. And
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: there's a thing that he's fairly well known for. He
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: wrote the Sherlock Holmes stories, eventually almost against his will,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: for money he considered himself a much better writer than
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: a writer of pulp crime fiction. Yeah, and he wrote
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: the Sherlock Holmes stories because he essentially needed money all
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: the time, even though he was making gobs of it.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it seemed like It's not I don't
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: think he like hated his legacy, but it definitely seemed
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: like everything I read he was like, you know, I'm
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: writing these other books too, and all everyone cares about
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: are these Sherlock Holmes books, right, I mean this little
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: In fact, he wrote the original book The Lost World,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: which is also a film in nineteen twenty five, and
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Michael Crichton directly paid homage with his own novel The
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Lost World. Yeah, and it's basically I mean, it's not
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: the same plot, but it deals with people going to
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: a place in South America where there are prehistoric you know,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: animals living.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, and Arthur Conan Doyle was the first person who
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: wrote hang On to Your Butts.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Well, apparently Crichton was inspired to bring back Malcolm. I
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: think he killed off Malcolm and brought him back to life.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and that was also and I don't know
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: if it was an homage, but more of like, well, Hey,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Doyle did it with Home, so I can do it
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: with Malcolm right exactly.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Doyle tried to kill off Sherlock Holmes at one point, unsuccessfully,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: it turned out, and the reason why he had a
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: quote he said that I've had such an overdose of
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: homes that I feel towards him as I do toward
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Petit de foi gras, of which I once ate too
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: much so that the name of it gives me a
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: sickly feeling to this day. That's how I was just
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: sick of Sherlock Holmes. He was that it was like
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: eating too much fois grass, which I can imagine is
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: not a very comfortable sensation.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I'll have none of it, thank you. One thing we
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: talked about Doyle before another podcast, I think when we
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: did episodes on like spiritualism and seances and things. That
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: was kind of one of his Aside from writing these books,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: he was very well known for being into spiritualism. After
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: his son died in nineteen eighteen, he would go to
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: up seances and try to, you know, make contact with
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: his son, which is super sad to think about. I
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: know that we definitely talked about him when we mentioned
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: the photograph that supposedly showed real fairies from Elsie Wright girls,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Elsie Wright and Francis Griffiths, and Doyle famously was like, no,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: this is totally real, everybody.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Cottingham Fairies. Remember we build a whole episode
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: around the one thing that should have just been a
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: short stuff.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've done that before.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So it was really surprising and shocking to Doyle's
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: friends his fans, like this is the opposite of what
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes would do, you know, getting spiritualism. But he
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: was tenacious, like he was a true believer. And he
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: was friends with Harry Houdini, and they were an odd
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: pair because Houdini was a voracious skeptic. He couldn't stand mediums.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: He liked to unmask mediums, and Conan Doyle would support
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: them by going to them, and he Conan Doyle thought
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Houdini had supernatural powers, despite Hoodini saying like, no, these
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: are all tricks. Yeah, like I'm just doing these I'm
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: not going to tell you how I did it, but
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: these are tricks. Please believe me. And I would be like, yeah,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: I read between the lies or did you just supernatural?
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Did you just wink at me?
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Right? Exactly.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: It's like Constanzo.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he was just he was just do Yeah,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: that's a great one. But he was just it was
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: just his thing. He could not be persuaded out of
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: believing in spiritualism.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: There's also been a lot of you know, ideas over
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: his history about who, like who he was based on.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Was there a real Sherlock Holmes. The name itself comes
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: from American doctor Oliver Wendell Holmes, because again Doyle was
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: trained as a doctor, so I guess that was just
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: a homage on his part. There's a historian named Angela
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Buckley that claims there was a Victorian police officer named
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Jerome Caminada that inspired him. But Doyle himself says, now,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: the inspiration was a guy that taught me in medical school.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: He was my third year instructor of clinical surgery. His
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: name was doctor Joseph Bell, and he had this sort
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: of party trick that he would do in lectures and
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: stuff where he would sort of demonstrate, I almost said,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Doyle Holmes like qualities of deducing things from little mundane
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: details about somebody.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like where someone had been, whether they were a sailor,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: if they smoked. Apparently very famously. He once said, madam,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I would ask you to reveal your pipe, and everyone
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: gasped us this old lady who showed her pipe, and
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: that was clearly the root of her problem, and he
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: just deduced it from a lower lip ulcer and a
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: little bit a little scar on her cheek. He could
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: do that with everybody. So that part of Holmes is
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: definitely from Joseph Bell. I mean, like you said, he
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: said as much. But Angela Buckley has a pretty good
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: claim that Jerome Kaminada inspired him too. If you look
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: into Kamanada, he would use disguises. He was doing police
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: work that now today is just part of police worker.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: At the time, he was the only one on the
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Manchester Force who was doing this stuff, so it was
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: probably an amalgamation of a bunch of different people all
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: combined with Doyle's command of science, cutting edge science at
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean, on that note, we've talked about
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: how he was using all of these sort of modern
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: things to inspire the stories. It actually happened the other
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: way as well, which is super cool, Like there were
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: real investigators that were doing things that they found that
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Holmes did in the novels and I mean, that's super cool.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: It wasn't they knew that there was sound science behind it,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: so there was I think there was a French criminologist
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: named Edmund Locard who basically was like, yeah, I do
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff that Sherlock Holmes does in
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: his books because it's super smart and a good way
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: to catch somebody.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's also this instance of life imitating art
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: that showed up in the story The Problem of thor Bridge.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: And in the story, I guess, the victim takes their
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: own life by shooting themselves with a gun that's tied
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: to a rock with a short rope, and they shoot
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: themselves on a bridge over a waterway, so that as
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: they fall to the ground, the gun is pulled down
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: into the water and it looks like it was a
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: homicide so the family can collect insurance. Well, there's no
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: less than two people out there who seem to have
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: been directly inspired by the story in real life did
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: the same thing. And it turns out that it gets
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: even more twisted because Arthur Conan Doyle probably got his
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: idea for the Problem with thor Bridge from a case
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: that was written about by Austrian criminologist Hans Gross in
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: eighteen ninety three where this this thing actually happened. So
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: you have a case of life imitating art imitating life.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well. Engross is another one of those who was
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: like picking up stuff from the novels to use in
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: everyday work. Like you mentioned dust, like gathering dust and packets,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: and Locard was telling like the police, the policeman on
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: his staff like, hey, you should read these you guys
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: should read these books.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like Arthur conan Doyle's character Sherlotte Colmes was the
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: first to basically say, we need to not contaminate crime scenes.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: They need to be preserved as they are when we
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: come upon them. This is before cops were even doing that,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: like cutting in cops were even doing it, Like he
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: was just laying down some amazing stuff.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Should we take another break?
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: After me saying something like he was laying down some
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: amazing stuff, I feel like it's yeah, we need to.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: All right, we'll be right back.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: So we're back, Chuck. And even Conan Doyle was surprised
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: by how popular his character was and he couldn't quite
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: figure out why. He just assumed it was a distraction
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: from everyday life. Other people have said It probably also
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: has a lot to do with the short story form,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: the fact that they pretty like action starts taking place
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: pretty quickly. But at the same time, a lot of
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: the stories start out with Watson and Sherlock Holmes hanging
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: out in their sitting room and there's like a fire
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: burning or it's just like like Conan Doyle adds just
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: enough detail here there to really kind of make it engrossing.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: But then it takes off, and like we said, it
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: follows that formula. So there's a comforting familiarity to the
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: whole thing that a lot of people make point to
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: is like this is why it's endured for so long.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like a cozy quality, yes.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Cozy mystery kind of thing, but then it branches out
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: into the world of Victorian London.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: So, like you said, he was surprised because I'm not
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: only surprised at like, hey, people are really liking this,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: but that just wasn't a thing there. That kind of
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: fandom wasn't a thing. It was probably the first time
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: that there were groups of people getting together and like
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: talking about this stuff and forming like fan groups. Maybe
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: the first fan fiction. As it turns out, Jay and Barry,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: who was a contemporary obviously, the creator of Peter Pan
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: in eighteen ninety one anonymously wrote My Evening with Sherlock Holmes,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: which is sort of the first fanfic perhaps.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was kind of a good example of
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: how he changed fandom or created fandom where readers stopped
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: just kind of passively consuming stuff and started being like,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: there's a there's a parasocial exchange going on here, like
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: we own you, you belong to us, Give us more.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: You know what George R. Or Martin went through when
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: he hadn't finished that.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Last Yeah, yeah, that last book.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Like that was essentially Arthur Conan Doyle's fault.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And like you said earlier, when he tried to
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: kill well, not tried, when he killed them off, there
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: was a revolt. There were twenty thousand Strand subscribers who
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: canceled their subscriptions. They would write these, you know, hateful
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: angry letters of the time. It wouldn't be like the
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: hateful angry letter you would get today. I think one
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: of them started with you brute, which is, you know,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: that's pretty tough language for back then for sure. And
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: then so he needed money and so he was like,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: all right, I guess I need to write another one
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: of these things. So he published The Hound of the Baskervilles,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: which was sort of a prequel. It wasn't bringing him
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: back from the dead just yet. It was Holmes before
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: he died. He finally resurrected him in the Adventure of
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: the Empty House in nineteen oh three and just said
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: he faked his death.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And everybody was like, fine, we don't care. I'm
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: glad you brought him back.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: He could just said it was magic and they would
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: have been like, okay, fine.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he came back with it just a classic
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: right off the cup. The Hound of the Baskervilles is
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: probably the most well known Sherlock Holmes case, and it's
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: just a really well written book, and it's been adapted
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: into movie after movie after movie, apparently.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: More than twenty of them.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I think, oh, really, I'm surprised it's actually not more.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: There was one called Derhound von Baskerville, and that was
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: a favorite of Hitler's, who's now made two appearances in
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes episode. Did not expect that. No, But part
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: of this whole thing that we kind of I mentioned
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Douleian interpretation earlier. There's this thing that's a part of
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: being a Sherlock Holmes fan. Again, in North America they're
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: called Sherlockians. In the UK they're called Holmesians. And if
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: you're a Sherlock Holmes fan, there's a really good chance
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: that you treat this whole thing as if these are
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: real accounts of real life, historical happenings, that are the
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: cases of a real life detective named Sherlock Holmes, and
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: that these were written by real life doctor and friend
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: to Holmes, John Watson, and that Arthur Conan Doyle was
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Watson's literary agent, and that they it just goes from there,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: And it's really important to remember you don't just completely
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: take leave of your senses when you become a Sherlock
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Holmes fan. This is all tongue in cheek, it's all whimsical,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: but the way that they treat it is very serious.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: And they use like actual like literary analysis in genealogy
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: and all this stuff to basically tease out as much
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: information as they can about the real life homes and
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: real life Watson. And they call the whole thing the
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Grand Game. And it's definitely a cornerstone of being a
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes fan.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's super cool. And I think the sort of
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: origins of that were in nineteen eleven when a guy
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: named Ronald Knox wrote a spoof textual analysis and he
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: would you know, that's where it became. He would say
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: things like sacred writings, and that's when the official canon
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: was born. And like you said, that lives on today
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: with the Grand Game and specifically the biggest group. I mean,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: there's plenty of groups, there's no shortage. I'm sure there's
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: one in your town, unless you know you live in
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: like the tiniest town imaginable, there's probably a Shirlock Holmes
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: group there you get together with. But the most famous
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: one is called the Baker Street Irregulars out of New York.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: It is an invitation only group. It was founded in
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four, and it seems like, you know, it's
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: pretty hard to get in. Isaac Asimov was in FDR,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: was in there. I believe. The one in England is
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: called the Sherlock Holmes Society of London. Yeah, and they
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: just they get together, they dress up, they have some
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: dinner and they play the Grand Game, which sounds like
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun quite honestly, Yeah.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: I read in an article I could not find it
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: for life of me where the author the journalist was
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: invited to one of these meetings, and it just sounded
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: so fun and so cool. But yeah, that's I think
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: it's interesting that the American chapter is like the founding
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: fan chapter Fan Club of Sherlock Holmes, not the British one.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: And they actually are so essentially powerful that they actually
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: grant like official status to other chapters Elsewhere. I found
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: one called the Shaka Sherlockians of Hawaii. They were basically
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: given official status by the Baker Street Irregulars. It's a
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: great website. If you want to know more in a
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: lot of detail about Sherlock Holmes, go check out Shaka Sherlockians.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: It's pretty fun.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Well, we mentioned adaptations. There have been tons of them.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: I said, there have been over twenty film or TV
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: versions of The Hound of the Baskervilles. Specifically the first one,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: and yes, you are correct, that was a stage version
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: in eighteen ninety nine from William Gillette where the line
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: elementary my dear fellow first came along. And I mean,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: you name it. How many movies have there been? Total?
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Do we even know I'm sure seventy.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Million, I think a lot. Yeah, I'm not. Yes, you
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: bet your sweet Pippy that there's a Sherlockean out there
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: who knows exactly how many movies there are.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think depending on who asked, taste
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: differs obviously, but the Private Life of Sherlock Holmes from
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy from Billy Wilder is generally regarded as like
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: one of the best adaptations, even though it was a
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: box office failure and it had a pretty troubled production
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: m it just brought a little a wit to it
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: thanks to Billy Wilder obviously that hadn't been there before,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: and I think Wilder definitely hammered home. The subtext at
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Holmes perhaps is gay.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he later said that he regretted not coming out
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: and actually saying it. That was definitely his intent, but
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: it's not ambiguous in the movie, And just reading about
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: the movie in and of itself is pretty interesting. But
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: it's one of the reasons why it's so beloved by
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Sherlock fans is the attention to detail, and that's like
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: true to the cannon is unparalleled, Like no one I
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: don't think has ever really done it. That well, even
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: though the actual like plot and everything that's going on
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: the point is just so wildly outside of the canon.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: It's a weird amalgam of it.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was Robert Stevens played Homes in that film.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: One of the more beloved performances was Jeremy Brett in
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: the eighty four through ninety four A Granada television series.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: I don't really know how people feel about the Guy
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Richie stuff. I haven't seen those movies or read much criticism.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: You haven't seen the movies, no, I've literally never seen
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: any Sherlock Holmes sing or read any Sherlock holmsing.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Wow. I don't know if the first one you should
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: see is the Guy Ritchie versions. But they're really interesting
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: interpretations of it. Like they get in fights, like they throw,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: they throw fists and stuff, like Sherlock Holmes beats people up.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: It's really interesting. But it also is very true to
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: the canon too, so I think a lot of people
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: actually like it, like even Sherlockians.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Right, maybe you know what I have seen something because
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: I forgot. I have seen both of the Anola Holmes films.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, there you go.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: In which Anola Holmes is the twenty year younger sister
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: of Sherlock. I believe she's like fourteenish in the movies
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: and played by uh, what's your name? Millie Bobby Brown
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: eleven hit from Stranger Things, and we watch those with
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: the family and Ruby and Emily and I all quite
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: enjoyed those movies.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, so you like those.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I did like those. But Sherlock is very adjacent in
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: those films.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: No, for sure. I'm just trying to think of what
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: the first thing you should see is. I really don't
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: think it should be the guy RITI once, Maybe Watson,
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know, probably not that despite the clip that
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: I saw, it does seem to not be very well loved.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Well Cumberbatch. I'll like Cumberbatch. He did a modern one, right.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and actually you mentioned that Billy Wilder kind of
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: brought like a little bit of humor comedy to it.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: That guy carried on by Sherlock on BBC. That was
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Benedict Cumberbatch. I don't know. I can't really recommend what
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: to go into. Hopefully some of our bigger Sherlocky and
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: fans can recommend where to start to you, because you
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: really should. You should at least see one thing, if
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: not read one thing and just see what you think.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: I like Johnny Lee Miller in that Elementary sounds interesting.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Okay. Do you like Lucy Lou two?
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Sure she And there you go, my friend, You're gonna
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: love Elementary.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: I think maybe I'll check out one of those. But
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's somebody in my head that I picture
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: from a kid. Would that have been the TV show?
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: The one I mentioned is the most like beloved portrayal?
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Maybe Jeremy Brett. You weren't a kid in nineteen eighty four.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: I wasn't a kid in nineteen eighty four.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: No, you were nearly a grown man at age fourteen.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: It was thirteen. Thank you. That may be the one
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking in my head, because I just when I
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: think in my mind of Sherlock Holmes as a TV
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: portrayal or whatever, this one dude pops into my head,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: and I bet you that's who that is.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Did you watch a lot of Masterpiece Theater as a
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: thirteen year old?
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: A little bit here and there?
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, and maybe that is.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: What it was.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, supposedly he is the one who did the best
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: out of all.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Of them all right.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Interestingly, though, Johnny Lee Miller was the one who's portrayed
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: him the most, with one hundred and four one hundred
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: and fifty four episodes on that show Elementary. That was
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: a little trivia for you.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: That's modern times set right, Yes, that.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: And Sherlock are both set in modern times. And if
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: you go back to the actual stories, they're all set
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: in Victorian England, even though he was writing them well
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: outside of Victorian England by the time he wrapped them up.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Well, this all brings up the sort of ending here
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: is that can anyone just make this or do they
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: have to pay for the rights or is it still
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: in is it in the public domain? And the answer
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: is it's been fairly complicated for a while now, I
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: mean up until recently that is.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So his son's one of their widow's producer and
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: someone else basically got together when Conan Doyle died in
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: nineteen thirty and they were like, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: and they managed to gather up all the rights to
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: all of the Sherlock Holmes writing the character every and
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: consolidated it into Conan Doyle Estate Limited. And if you
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: had anything that you wanted to do with Sherlock Holmbs,
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: you had to go through them, and you had to
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: pay them whatever they wanted, essentially, and they ruled Sherlock
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Holmes's intellectual property with an iron fist for almost a century,
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: and they really got a bad reputation for it. But
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: despite that, that just goes to show how popular Sherlock
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Holmes is. People kept dealing with them to make Sherlock
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: Holmes movies, books, fan fiction analysis, basically everything amazing.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: There was one pretty famous case where the movie seven
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Percent Solution from the seventies from nineteen seventy four from
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: director Herbert Ross. Apparently they thought it was in the
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: public domain and it wasn't.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Man, what a surprise that would have been.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you I don't know. Maybe I guess
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: things were different back then in seventy four, but how
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: does this studio not know that when they greenlight it.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know. That one was interesting though I looked
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: it up. I was about to ask if you'd seen it,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: but I know the answer that apparently Sherlock Combs is cocaine.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: You spirals out of control and Watson sends him to
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Vienna to be cured by Sigmund Freud.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's to be pretty weird.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty interesting sounding though too. But they ended
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: up making it. I think they just had to pay
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: retroactively for it.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's when they've really got you over a barrel.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I know.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: But the.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Copyright ran out finally unambiguously to all Sherlock Combs stuff,
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: just this past twenty twenty three, I guess, right, Yeah.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: I think initially it ran out in the UK in
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: two thousand and then it was ninety eight in the US.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: But there was a family argument that like, no, he
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: wrote these over a long period of time, over decades,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: so like the whole thing needs to go expire by
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: the last story he wrote, was their argument.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he was so developed that like he was
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: a flat character, and really the character of Sherlock Comes
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: that everybody portrays is the final ones that we own
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: the copyright too. And I think a judge finally told
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: them to go soak their heads, essentially said that what
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: they their strategy was a form of extortion. Yeah, so
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: they finally lost it. I don't know what they're doing nowadays. Oh,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: I know what they're doing. They're essentially authenticating new stuff
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: so you can get their blessing and make it like
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: an official Sherlock Holmes mystery that you wrote.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: But that's why something like Will Ferrell and John c
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Riley's Holmes and Watson could come along, right, they could
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: just do it all of a sudden.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: I think that was I think they would have had
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: to have paid for it because I think it was
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: from like twenty eighteen.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, so even though yeah, I guess the family won
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: that argument then huh.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think they lost too many cases. I
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: think it was quite near the end of the copyright,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: I gotcha. Yeah, so I'm sure that they had to
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: pay for the use of that, and I'm sure they
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: lost money on it.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Well, I wonder now, I mean, I don't think so
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: far we've seen any like abomination where they've you know,
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: like they make Mickey Mouse a serial killer and stuff now,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: and yeah, I'm curious to see if someone's going to
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: do like a Sherlock Holmes thing where he's the batty.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure some stuff you should know. Listeners went, Wow,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: that's a good idea, Chuck, It's.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: A really bad idea because people would be pretty angry.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: I would imagine.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want to mess with something like that
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: he's good.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Will Ferrell's just now recovering.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: I want to give a couple of shouts out. First
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: of all, Kyle, our writer, Kyle helped us out with
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: this one, so if we got anything wrong, blame Kyle.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: And then also we heard from friend of the show,
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Richard Fallwall, who wrote in when we first talked about
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: doing a Sherlock Holmes episode on some other episode, and
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: he's like, yes, do and listen to Stephen Fry's Audible
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: collection of all of the Sherlock Holmes cannon works.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: Is it?
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Even if you don't do that, listen to Stephen Fry's
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: like introductions to each of the collections. And I listened
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: to one of them, and he's right there, amazing, just
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: charming interpretations of what's going on in these and the
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: way the effect that they had in real life. So
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: you can go out and listen to that on audible.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: Apparently it's seventy two hours long.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, Well can you imagine We can vouch and
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: say that due to our selects episodes on Saturday. Sometimes
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: it intro is the best part for sure.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Oh and one more thing I want to shout out.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: I guess you haven't seen this either. You have to
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: see this, no matter what you think of whatever people
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: tell you to watch or read. See mister Holmes eventually
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: with Ian McKellen, just the most art house of the
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes movies.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: It's so good.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: But it's about him retired as a beekeeper, which is
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: part of the canon too.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: I love Ian McKellen, so I'll check that.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Out, Okay, but just put it off to the side.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: Don't make that the first one you see.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, I think that's it. Chuck Great, Sherlock Holmes. I'm
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna watch something. I promise everybody. I'm gonna
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: watch something.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right in and Chuck know what he should.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: Watch or read something even better?
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, same thing?
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: All right?
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, since Chuck said right, that means it's time
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: for a listener mail.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, on the Anaconda episode, you tried to work
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: out how and the heck green Anacon has made it
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: to Trinidad when the Caribbean island is separated from Venezuela
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: by mere seven miles of ocean water. Well, guys, I'm
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: from Trinidad, so maybe I can help. We can easily
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: see Venezuela from certain parts of our country. And that's
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: because Trinidad, unlike the other islands of the Caribbean, is
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: not connected to the ocean floor. It actually rests on
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: the submerged continental shelf that extends from the coastline of
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Venezuela into the Atlantic Ocean. All the other islands in
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: the Caribbean Archipelago are volcanic, reaching up from the seafloor,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: but not us. Ours is a continental island that was
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: once part of the South American mainland. Essentially, there was
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: a land bridge between Trinidad and Venezuela as recently as
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: the Last Ice Age. As such, our flora and fauna
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: are pretty much identical to those found in Venezuela and
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: even deeper into South America and hint Anaconda's baby. They
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: terrified my childhood because they are in our rainforest and
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: big ones that come into town bordering the forest like
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: where I lived. Anyway, I stopped the podcast midst stream
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: to quickly tell Josh in real time your hypothesis was
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: spot on.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I love emails like that.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Warmest regards, and that is from Revel.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: Thanks Revel. That was a great, great email and we
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: appreciate it. Thanks for clearing that up for us. If
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: you want to be like Revel, you can send us
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: an email too. It's stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.