Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / Why review sites are critical to building in the bedding category, with Eucalypso founder Elle Liu (part 1/2)

Transcript

Why review sites are critical to building in the bedding category, with Eucalypso founder Elle Liu (part 1/2) · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  This is Elle for Female Startup Club.
• 0:12
  Hello and welcome back to the show. It's Dune here, your host and hype girl. On the show today, we're learning from Elle Lu, the female founder behind Eucalypso. Eucalypso makes modern, sustainable bedding spun from 100% natural eucalyptus fibers for the perfect combination of silky soft, breathable, and ultra eco-friendly. And they're designed for hot sleepers like me and people with sensitive or acne-prone skin.
• 0:40
  In this episode, we're talking about how she scaled her business to seven figures while working a full-time job, review sites and why they're important for this category, and her best and worst advice. Oh, and tune in to the end where she shares her six quick questions, telling us about a major fail she had recently and what she was able to learn from the process. It is super interesting. Yeah.
• 1:03
  And while I've got you here, let me take a hot second to shout about my book, Your Hype Girl. We have officially set the launch date for February 28, and it is all hands on deck, getting everything ready for the launch. So please mark the date in your diary and get ready to be part of the movement. If you're listening to this, I know you are just as excited as I am, and I cannot wait to share it with you. The countdown is officially on to Feb 28.
• 1:31
  But let's get into this episode. This is Elle for Female Startup Club. Elle, hi. Welcome to the Female Startup Club podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited for you to be here. Happy New Year, by the way. Happy New Year to you too. Lots of new things happening this new year, right? Mm-hmm. Did you have some time off? Did you do anything fun or different or...?
• 1:58
  new yeah so my fiance and I actually go to Hawaii every winter that's where he grew up where he was born oh my god I got some sun didn't really take that much of a vacation but definitely did some work out in the sun which is really nice how about you I'm like beyond jealous I actually saw some of your videos and I was like I wonder where she is in these videos because it looks like paradise yeah
• 2:24
  I was with my family in, well, my family-in-law in Switzerland in the mountains. So also lots of nature, lots of snow, very beautiful, very quiet, really enjoyed it. Time in nature is key. Exactly. Definitely. We're like the opposite. I went to somewhere really warm and you went to somewhere really cold, but we both had a good time. I would love to go somewhere warm though. I can tell you. I would definitely switch that for warm for any day of the week. I'm a, I'm a sunshine girl for sure. Me too. I'm the same way.
• 2:55
  Okay, so for people who might not know who you are just yet, can you give us a bit of an introduction? Tell us a bit about yourself. What do we need to know and introduce your business? Yeah, so my name is Elle Liu. I'm the founder of Eucalypso, a modern, sustainable eucalyptus betting company.
• 3:13
  And so at Eucalyptus So we make all of our bedding, which are sheets, pillowcases, duvet cover, you name it. And they're all made from 100% natural eucalyptus fibers, which is really great because it's super eco-friendly, but it's also really soft and cooling. So if you're like me and you're a hot sleeper or you get sun to the skin, eucalyptus bedding is a really great solution for that. And so that's a little bit about what I do and our company.
• 3:41
  So two things. Firstly, love eucalyptus, love the smell of eucalyptus, miss eucalyptus in my life coming from Australia. And two, you're speaking my language. I'm an overheater and I am always like, my God, I need sheets that are cool. I hear that as a pain point. I know you would not believe how many people are actually hot sleepers. I'm the same way.
• 4:08
  And that was actually what had inspired me to start Eucalyptus because I wake up in the middle of the night and I be drenched in sweat and I have no idea what's happening. And I actually was talking to my dermatologist a little bit about it. And I was telling her, you know, I'm waking up in the middle of the night and sweating. And I'm also getting these random breakouts. I don't know what's causing it. And she told me to look in my bedding. And the reason for that is because the way that cotton can be woven, it can trap sweat.
• 4:37
  and bacteria, which causes things like night sweat and acne breakouts. Because if you think about it, going back to science class, heat rises, right? So your body releases heat when you're sleeping. And if you have something covering over you that's not moisture wicking, it's not letting the heat through, it causes you to sleep hot.
• 4:56
  Oh my gosh, I didn't know that. That's so interesting. When you kind of like discovered that point, like when your dermatologist like opened your eyes to this, did you immediately think here's an opportunity to start a business or did you like go and think to yourself, oh, I should see if other people have this same problem or like what was your thought process in that moment?
• 5:18
  It was definitely more of the latter. I was just kind of looking for a solution. To be quite honest with you, I never really thought of myself as an entrepreneur. You know how you talk to people and they're like, oh, I always knew I was going to start a business. Ever since I was a kid in school, I was selling lemonade. I'm so the opposite. I'm like, I'm perfectly fine working and getting a steady paycheck.
• 5:39
  So I was very much on my own personal problem. And I was kind of looking into what other people were doing and there's any solutions out there. And that's kind of what started it. And it was totally not to start my own business at all, which is hilarious. It ended up being that way. So what was the moment that made you be like, oh my God, maybe I could start a business and maybe I am going to be a business owner and an entrepreneur? Yeah.
• 6:04
  Yeah, that's a great question. So prior to founding Eucalypto, I was working in tech as a product manager and I really love my job. It's so much fun. And so I had a lot of extra time after work and my then boyfriend, now fiance was telling, he's like, why don't you do something
• 6:22
  with your time, right? Maybe you can, instead of watching Netflix, you might want to like channel it and do it away because you're so smart. And, you know, there's a lot of things I like to work on. And I was like, you know what? I'll start an Etsy store. Because I was like, maybe I'll make jewelry or something.
• 6:37
  But then this is around the same time that I was experiencing these night sweats and all of these things. And so as I was Googling and looking to solutions, I was looking, realizing, hey, there could be an opportunity here for someone else that may or may not be me. I just want to start my Etsy store, do something small. But the more I learned about it and the more I looked into what kind of options there are and kind of if there's any innovations in this space, and I love to innovate even in my tech job.
• 7:05
  I was thinking, hey, this is a challenge that I could potentially take on. Wow, that's so cool. And if you're going to break down kind of like those early steps to actually getting started, to actually having a brand, what were the kinds of things you were doing to get it up and running?
• 7:22
  So I think that what is really amazing about this time is that we have access to all of these resources, Google, all of these things that previously people haven't. And so the first thing I did was kind of look into the problem, right? So I learned as much as I could about cotton bedding and its benefits and its detriment. And so some of the things I found were what we had just talked about, that it's not exactly moisture wicking. It can cause things like night sweats. It can contrast bacteria, which causes breakouts.
• 7:51
  And so I thought that was a huge problem. But really the thing that pushed me to personally tackle it is that I also discovered that cotton is one of the most dirty and thirsty crops. As in, it takes a lot of water, it takes a lot of pesticides to grow and to harvest.
• 8:08
  which is really not eco-friendly. And I try to live my life as eco-friendly as I can and try to make eco-conscious decisions. And so for me, that was a problem that was worth tackling. So I learned about all of these issues. And then I looked into alternatives. What other fabrics are there?
• 8:25
  What is out there? Is there anything that currently exists? Can I, you know, iterate upon that? And I didn't really find anything I love. So I started Googling different mills and manufacturers I could talk to. Luckily, I was living in New York at the time. And so I was close to the Garmin district, had access easily where I could go take a subway to meet with different textile companies. And so I got in contact with them and started reaching out and started learning more
• 8:55
  And so at some point, you're obviously working a job, you're Googling at night, trying to figure things out. You're trying to find a manufacturer. You obviously find someone that you are able to work with. What are the kind of hurdles that you were facing during that process? I...
• 9:14
  Spent probably over a year traveling to different places, talking to different mills and manufacturers. There were a few things that were really important to me. One is this eco-friendly aspect, right? As I had talked about, I wanted something that was way better than cotton and done in a way that's really sustainable and clean.
• 9:33
  And those kinds of fabrics don't really, there's not a lot of that that exists. Cotton has pretty much saturated the bedding space. And so to find a fabric that is super eco-friendly, it's kind of, you have to really dig for it. So that was my first criteria. And then the other ones were just the working conditions, right? I want to make sure that they treat their workers right, that things are being done in a way that's socially responsible, that I agree with. And so I went
• 10:02
  All over. I went to Mexico, I went to Asia, all sorts of different countries. I went to Europe, Portugal. And it wasn't until I went to Austria and I met this mill there that I'm currently working with that I really found a good fit in terms of, you know, all of these different aspects that I was talking about.
• 10:21
  That's so cool. I don't know if I've met anyone before who produces their product in Austria. How interesting. Yeah, it's so funny. Yeah, it's funny because since we make things from eucalyptus, when I say Austria, people always say, are you sure you're not? It's not Australia. Yeah. Oh, my God. I love that.
• 10:42
  So you're still hustling in your business. You find the mill. You launch the business while you're still working, right? You're still working full time at your job. I think at this point you're working at Amex. I think I read, right? Yes, that's right. Yep. You put the business online. How does it go? Like, what's the early days like? How do you start getting the word out there?
• 11:03
  So what was really great was that I knew prior as I was kind of exploring that I wanted to start a business. I was in the process of sourcing fabric and whatnot. And so at that time, I decided to grow my own Instagram because I figured that if I grew my own Instagram, I can at least get a following, get the word out there, and potentially move some of those people over to my brand Instagram. Yeah.
• 11:27
  And so having my own Instagram following, even though it was really small, was really helpful. And those actually were what really helped me get a lot of the word out there initially, is kind of leveraging my own network, leveraging people who are following me, and seeing if they could help me get the word out. And so I put my business on the internet. Nothing really happened, to be quite frank, which I was actually expecting.
• 11:52
  And then the two things I did initially was one, I set up a Google AdWords campaign because I wanted to make sure that there was someone who's looking for eucalyptus sheep that they'd be able to find it because it didn't really exist out there at the time. And then the other thing was I leveraged my social network and tried to get the word out there with my own circle. And I think within the second day, I actually got my first order was from someone who's totally anonymous.
• 12:20
  And that was super, super exciting because I was really not expecting that at all. And I was like, it's working, which is awesome. What was that first year like? Were you still working at the Amex kind of side of things during that first full year? Yes. So I actually, I've had my business for three years now and I've had a full-time job until
• 12:43
  three months ago. So I've been working full time this whole time, right? And so the first year I was still working at MX. What was really great about where I was working was that I was actually working in what we had called open at the time, which was for to help support small businesses. And so the teams and the groups I was in was really helpful for supporting small businesses. And that's actually where I got a lot of my inspiration from a lot of my support from, and I'm still really close with a lot of people. I still
• 13:10
  work with at Amex to this day. But it was really hard to work a full-time job and then to do something on the side. And also for people to kind of take what you're doing on the side seriously, which is a challenge I expect probably a lot of people face when they're working full-time and also doing something on the side.
• 13:30
  You're kind of blowing my mind because I read that you built the business to seven figures. And I'm just kind of realizing that you've done that while working full time until three months ago, which I'm just like, wow, go you. That's amazing. Are you able to share kind of like in that first year, what kind of revenue you got to and like at what point were you saying to yourself, I'll quit my real job and go full time into this? Like, was there a certain...
• 14:00
  like milestone that you wanted to hit? Yeah, totally. So I think like most people, I was planning quitting my job when my salary or what I was making at Eucalyptus would match my salary, which is kind of really hard when you're working in tech, because as I'm sure we all know, a lot of tech salaries can be a little bit inflated. And so it's definitely a little bit more of an extra hurdle for me.
• 14:24
  So when I was working full time, I was just making sure that I was using extra time I had outside of work to grow my business. And it was really important for me to keep my job because at one point I had to make the decision as to whether I want to sell fun and bootstrap or to raise money. And I thought for a long time about it. That's something that I still kind of think about, but I know that just to kick things off, I want to...
• 14:53
  bootstrap for as much as I can, as long as I can. And so that was why it was really important for me to still have a full-time job so that I can still have that source of income so that I can keep following it into my business. And I've been doing it for, you know, the past three years until finally what I was earning did actually match my salary. But still at that point, I was still trying to decide, you know, it is really important to have that steady income
• 15:19
  And it wasn't until I think I felt super, super secure and comfortable that I decided to kind of take the leap. And what was your thinking? You just mentioned a second ago around, you know, your choice between bootstrapping and like fundraising and going out and raising money. What was your thinking around that? Why did you decide to choose the bootstrap model? Yeah.
• 15:40
  So that's something that I kind of have been thinking about for a while. The way that I approach it is that I started a business so that I can do the things I want to do. I can take the business in whichever direction I want. I can move as fast or as slow as I can.
• 15:57
  and I can have 100% ownership. That means that if I wanna take vacation, I can. If I wanna release a new product, I can. And I don't really want anyone else to really kind of have a say in it because otherwise for me, that would feel like I'm working again. I don't wanna work for anyone else. I wanna work for myself. And so that's a big thing. And I know that when you're taking VC money,
• 16:19
  You essentially have stakeholders, which is a great thing because you're responsible to other people and that keeps you moving forward. But then on the downside is that you have stakeholders who may not agree with you. And then you have to kind of go with whatever they're saying. I also know that the other thing is that once you take money, you kind of have to keep taking money because you are accelerating your growth and you have to hit benchmarks.
• 16:43
  And for you to keep that growth, that extremely fast growth, you have to keep taking money. You have to keep fundraising. And for me, that's something that's not appealing. I started a business so that I can run my business. I can create the products. I can do all of these things. I'm not interested in spending 90% of my time pitching and fundraising. And then the other 10% of my time managing other people to do. I think running a business is the most exciting part. And so those are kind of the two...
• 17:11
  big factors that's played into my decision so far.
• 17:15
  I think it's so important to like have that, you know, serious self audit to be like, what are my goals? What do I want my life to look like? And like, there's such a thing, you know, at the moment when you look at the media and you look at the landscape, there's such a celebration placed on people who raise money and, you know, go down that pathway. And it's like, that's great. And it's great if that is the direction that you want to take and you want to grow really, really fast and you want stakeholders and all that kind of thing.
• 17:44
  what your goals are and make sure that you're sticking to that North Star and not getting swept up in the kind of way media portrays and puts a spotlight on raising capital.
• 17:55
  Absolutely, dude. I'm really glad that you said that because I think that's definitely the case. We really celebrate and you see all of these amazing entrepreneurs who raise so much money. But there's also a lot of people who run million, billion dollar businesses who are not on the cover of Forbes or Times or anything like that. And they live quite a great life. And I think that's admirable as well.
• 18:18
  Yeah, 100%. Yeah, it's a very interesting landscape when you're kind of like, hmm, why are we celebrating the fact that you've just raised money? It should be, I don't know. It's weird. I feel like, I feel torn about it sometimes. I'm like, it's a weird space at the moment. I still feel torn about it as well.
• 18:40
  I want to go back to, I kind of like moved more into money, but I want to kind of go back to marketing to understand your sort of approach to growth and marketing over the last three years. Obviously in the beginning, you said that you were, you had your own personal network and you had your own Instagram that you'd built and you're kind of following there. And then you had set up the keywords on Google, but how do you get from that to where you are now? Like what are the key kind of things that you did that?
• 19:04
  grew the business and allowed you to quit your job, go into this full time and build a profitable business? Yeah, I think obviously the way I think about it, I think marketing is kind of at the backbone of any business that is growth. And so for me, making sure that I have a wide angle lens and marketing is really important.
• 19:25
  Luckily, coming from Amex, I had a lot of really great marketing background. And so I was able to see how we run the marketing campaigns of other small businesses that we worked with. And so one of the things that I really focused was this idea of omni-channel marketing, which is very hot these days. But back a few years ago, it was kind of...
• 19:45
  Not so much talked about, I would say. And that's the idea that you are essentially going to hit marketing at every angle, right? And so for me, just straight off the bat, I knew that's exactly what I needed to do, even if I was spending very little amount of money.
• 19:59
  And so that means that paid social, organic social, Google AdWords, making sure that, you know, even getting podcast ads and getting PR, all of those things that you can still do on a shoestring budget, because I know that once they all come together, it kind of amplifies the effect of marketing. And so I told you that I had started some Google AdWords campaign.
• 20:25
  making sure I was leveraging my Instagram. And then immediately I started spending money on social ads, on email, making sure that I covered kind of the entire funnel. And so I kind of moved very quickly into marketing. As soon as I had all of my, you know, everything in a row, I just kind of moved into marketing immediately and hit every channel that I could. And when you look at your kind of channel mix now, what are the biggest revenue drivers for you kind of in the last 12 months?
• 20:53
  For me, that would be kind of everything that's bottom of the funnel. So it's going to be email marketing and Google ads because the,
• 21:02
  Those are people who have expressed intent. They either looked up your keyword or they signed up for your email list. And I think they're kind of, in a way, the lowest hanging fruits. They're always going to be the people who come back and support and spend the most when you reach out to them. I think now there's so much focus on kind of brand awareness, right? I think
• 21:23
  Marketing on Pinterest and on Instagram and on TikTok is so hot. And obviously that's super important. But in terms of the impact of your money, I still think that bottom of the funnel, making sure you're really taking care of those return customers, of people whose expressed interest is so important.
• 21:42
  Absolutely. Something else I noticed about your brand when I was Googling you is that you have a lot of like on the first few pages of Google, you're on a lot of review sites. Has that been a specific strategy or is that something specific to your category to like that's really important? Yeah, it's definitely in the bedding and mattress space. That's a big thing.
• 22:06
  is because I think as opposed to a lot of other products, with betting and with matches, you really trust what other people are saying in terms of how it feels, especially when you're sleeping in it, right? And what something is like over time, especially if you're selling online. And so I think that really tapping into those reviews and the review side is ultra, ultra important because you're essentially getting feedback from other people and getting a sense of what something is like
• 22:36
  And I think with our product in specific, with Eucalyptso, because it feels very different from cotton, it has more of a silkier texture, it's cool to the touch. Hearing other people say that is extremely validating, especially when you're looking at something online and you can't feel it yourself. 100%. Yeah, I think about my own customer behavior and it's definitely needing that kind of like review or recommendation. Exactly.
• 23:04
  Tactically speaking, though, how does one do that? Like if there's a small business owner or an entrepreneur early on in the journey and they're like, oh, my product would suit that kind of strategy. What do you actually do? How do you get your kind of product reviewed on all those different sites?
• 23:21
  I think that's where PR plays a huge part. For me, initially, I did all of my PR myself. And luckily, I actually, I think we created enough buzz that we had people briefed out to us and asked to review our product, which is really lucky because PR is not my strongest to do. And I'll tell you that right now, reaching out to other people and following up is so time-consuming and it is so hard for me to do. And that's why there's people out there who's great at it. But I would suggest
• 23:50
  When you're starting out, if you have time, doing your own PR is so important. The reason for that is because one, it allows you to tell your story and to figure out how to tell your story in a way that's marketable. And that's invaluable to your brand experience. And the other thing is just making sure that, you know, you are able to kind of sell your product and know how to reach out and do PR. I think as a business owner, knowing how to do a little bit of everything is so important.
• 24:19
  And so for me, I would just spend three or four hours every day reaching out to people in PR and asking them to review the product and kind of get feedback.
• 24:27
  And so like gifting them product and then waiting for the review if they're happy to do that, like not a paid kind of placement. Is that what you mean? Yeah, that's exactly what it is. And for you, like how do you approach, obviously you have a bit of a higher price point product. It's not cheap to necessarily for you to be able to gift at scale. How do you approach your kind of gifting and influencer marketing and seeding on something that's a bit of a higher ticket item?
• 24:54
  I'm glad that you're asking that question because that is something that I think a lot of people don't realize as opposed to a lot of other smaller products like skincare or things like that, where it's so easy to ship, it's so easy to get it out. Our cost of product is extremely high and the cost of shipping is really higher. Sheets weigh about six pounds and it's huge. And so for us, we always try to lead with a smaller sample product, right? So for us,
• 25:19
  or pillowcases is one of our best sellers and it's the exact same product as our sheet set. And so we're not sure if the editor or the reviewer is going to be able to do something. We'll always lead with a pillowcase set. And then usually if it's kind of a bigger brand or they really express intent, like, hey, I'm going to take photos and I really want to review this, we'll send out the entire sheet set itself.
• 25:45
  Yeah, that's so clever. And I feel like as well for pillowcases, you also have that easy opportunity to monogram or customize to still make it special, but keeping it on the smaller side, not heavy, easy to ship. Exactly. Yeah. You totally hit the nail on the head. I love that. Gosh. What are some of the hard things about this as a category and industry besides the heavy weight and the shipping?
• 26:09
  I was actually just talking about this with someone the other day. I think betting, kind of going back to what we're saying about the high price point, right? It's extremely costly to make, not only because we're using the finest fibers and most high quality product, but also because the way that we decided to make it so sustainably, it's expensive, it's costly to do things sustainably. And also with our sheet sets,
• 26:36
  it's there's, we have to order quite a lot of it. So our MOQ or minimum order quantity is extremely high. And so if you think about it, say you're selling a pencil or something, right? If you have to order a thousand pencils and say the pencils are a dollar each, your startup cost is a thousand dollars.
• 26:53
  With our sheet set, that's a huge multiplier. So if I have to get 1,000 sheet sets, which most manufacturers wouldn't even do 1,000 because that's extremely low, or I'm accused we're usually looking at 10,000 or so, you need an extremely high startup cost. And so everything kind of gets gross exponentially. The cost of storing something so big is expensive. The cost of shipping is expensive.
• 27:17
  And so it takes a lot of capital costs. And that's something that I did not realize going into this. Don't forget, I wanted to start an Etsy store. I was trying to sell like little jewelry, you know, so to go from that to selling in this really, really competitive space where everyone has, you know, VC funding, it is really, it's extremely competitive, I would say.
• 27:40
  I didn't actually ask you, how did you fund like the kind of first order and get yourself to launch in the beginning? And how much capital did you need to invest? Yeah, so I had started by just taking out all the money in my own bank account. And then my parents both put in a little bit of their own money, but I probably put in like 80% of it.
• 28:04
  And I think all in, it was probably about 100K for me to start. And that's also including some of the startup costs. From Etsy store to 100K. I know, exactly right. And that's including like the cost of raw materials and storage and all the marketing and everything as well.
• 28:25
  Yeah. Wow. That's that's crazy. My goodness. From Etsy to that. I love it. I know. I know. I guess I got to do a bit. You got to dive in deep, though. Yeah. If you're going to do it, you better do it well. What are some of the fun things that you can shout about that are upcoming this year in 2022? What are you focused on? What's what's on the cards that you can tell us?
• 28:47
  So lots of very exciting things. So we're releasing some new products. I actually, we're gonna be, I guess I'll let you know now, maybe it'll be launched by the time this airs, but we're gonna be releasing an eye mask, which you have been asking for for a long time because it's super great on the skin, it's cooling, it's soft. So that's really wonderful. We've been working on that forever. And then also releasing some new products as well.
• 29:13
  And some new colors. Our customers are always asking us for new colors and things like that. And so we're finally getting around to doing that. Oh, my God. Fun. What color or colors, I should say?
• 29:25
  We're actually still in the process. A little bit of a secret. Okay. Okay. I'll keep my eyes peeled. Yeah. Yeah. I'll let you know in advance. I love that. Two part question before we get into the six quick question that we do at the end. First part is what's the best advice you were ever given about starting a business or building a business? Second part, what's the worst advice that you've been given?
• 29:51
  Wow. Okay. So I think the best advice is that you need to spend money to make money, which I think a lot of people forget, especially when you start something from the beginning, and especially if you're bootstrapping it, you kind of really hold onto that money very closely, right? You want to do everything on a screw string budget, but you do realize that
• 30:11
  you know, there's a multiplier on everything. And so when you start actually putting out money, you go from spending $10 to $100 to $1,000 on ads, you start to see the return on that. And I think that's super important. And that it seems so easy and simple when you think about it. But it's something that I think a lot of people have a hard time, especially me coming around to it mentally. And I think
• 30:33
  the worst advice is that if your friends and family don't like support you or don't go into and purchase your product, that is not a good product or it's not a viable product. I think that depending on what you're selling, it may not be for everyone. Right. And I think a lot of people maybe have a really hard time kind of understanding why you're doing the things that you do. I think people need to see success to kind of support in a lot of, in a lot of times.
• 31:01
  And so even if, you know, off the bat, you're like, hey, guys, I'm doing this. Do you want to buy it? And they're either like, why are you doing this? Or like, no, I don't want to buy it. That doesn't mean that you're not going to succeed or that your product's not good. I think there's a lot of other people out there. There's an entire market for things that you're potentially going to start.
• 31:20
  Yeah, that's key. I really love that you said that. I think that's like, you can't let your immediate circle dictate what you want to do. You've got to like think broader. You've got to think about like the problem at hand and don't let those kind of like close people to you dictate what's happening. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know what I'm trying to say. I know exactly what you're saying. Yes. I love that. Both really great worst case, best case advice. Perfect.
• 31:51
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 32:15
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 32:38
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that. Thank you.
• 32:55
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 33:19
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 33:42
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.