Latest / Honey Badger Radio / Men, you must comply with feminism to be free... | Cozy Gaming Stream

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Men, you must comply with feminism to be free... | Cozy Gaming Stream · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Hello, everybody.
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Honey Badger Radio. My name is Brian.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm here with Allison. And this is Maintaining Frame? Yes.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Well, no, it's Repo. It's Cozy Gaming Stream.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, yeah. Cozy Gaming Stream, right, with Repo. That's correct.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, where we discuss a Medium article. We dive into the...
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: The quasi-cess pit of medium and pull something out to
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: look at. In this case, what we're looking at is
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: an article in which the authoress asserts that the way
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: to freedom for men is through feminism. Yeah. Freedom from
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: being a man. No, sorry. Freedom from the pressure of
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: being a man by... By essentially renunciating your masculinity and
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: signaling allyship. And by doing that, you will be free.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, not free of judgment, because you will still
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: also be judged even more harshly. But you will be
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: free of any connection to other men, which will make
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: you freer by subjecting yourself to even harsher judgment by feminists.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: But that's freedom. It's freeing. Yeah, you're out of the
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: man box, guys. Sort of. You're out of the man
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: box and into a smaller, more electrified box with spikes. But,
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: you know, progress. Yay. Okay, so that's what I thought
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: we would cover today. And if you would like to
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: send us a message at any point throughout the show,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: you can do so at feedthebadger.com slash justthetip. That's feedthebadger.com
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  Speaker 2: your comments by sending them through feedthebadger.com slash justthetip. And
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: if you want to support the show, you can do
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: so at feedthebadger.com slash support. That is how we manage
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: to keep bringing you this content year after year. We're
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: now on year 13 of not dying, which I think
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: we've done well. Of all the goals, we have fulfilled
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: the not dying goal, which means that the things that
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: we talk about haven't been silenced. So we persist. Anyway,
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• 2:32
  Speaker 2: And if you want to join us in our community, badgernation.online. And, yeah,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: so I have been... One of the other reasons why
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I wanted to cover this particular Medium article is I have,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: in conjunction with examining the psychology of men and masculinities field,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: which is the source of all of this renunciation of
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: being a man and renunciation of masculinity, and all of... Honestly,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: everything that we've talked about over the last 13 years,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: particularly everything that we've talked about since Gamergate, is... It
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: is directly downstream of the psychology of men and masculinities field.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: And why I say that is because they're the ones
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: who originated the corpus of thought around men renunciating their masculinity.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: That masculinity is a harm that men do to themselves
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: and society. And that is directly founded on the feminist
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: notions of patriarchal dominance. So they took that foundation. They
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: turned it into a concept about men. And incidentally, all
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: of their norms that they say men have They've never
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: actually shown that men hold them. And when they do
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: survey men, men reject most of them. So there's sort
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: of norms that men don't have, but feminists say men have.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: And so the entire field's goal is to get men
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: to renunciate being a man. So that to say, I
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: don't take an identity. One of their specific statements is
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: to help a man create a masculine identity that is
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: independent of manhood or other men. So they're trying to create,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: you make you create an individualistic sense of self separate
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: from identifying with other men or masculinity. Which essentially means
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: they don't want you to recognize anything positive about masculinity.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: They want you to only see it as in terms
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: of individual values that women could also share. Like women
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: could also have them. But you know, you get your
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: own little mood board. As a man. Not a man.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: As a neuter. You get a mood board. And that's
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: your identity. Your mood board. You get a vibe. You
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: don't get masculinity. Because you've got to renunciate that. That's bad.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: It's harmful to you and it's harmful to everyone else.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: So put it in the trash container. And you don't
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: get to be a man because that's sort of like
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: masculinity or it's almost like feeling good. So you've also
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: got to put that in a trash container. So as
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: a neuter, the psychology of men in masculinity's field is...
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: invites you to develop your neuter mood board, which you
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: will then take as your own personalized identity.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Okay? That's where... This is where all of the shit
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: you see in gaming comes from. You notice how they have...
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Most of the way that they approach male characters is
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: renunciation of masculinity and manhood. So they have to present
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: them as failures, or they have to replace them with women...
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Or they're villains. You notice that, Brian, right?
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, of course.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: That comes from the psychology of men and masculinities. And
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: they actually have deep ties into all kinds of funding.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: And this is not a conspiracy. They literally put this
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: stuff on their masthead. They're like, yeah, we're doing surveys
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: for the World Bank and the European Bank of Development.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: You know that kind of thing? And BlackRock. Probably they
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: got some feelers in there, too. So they are the ones...
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Who created the theoretical apparatus that ended up blowing up
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: into Gamergate when the gamers were like, what the hell
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: is this crap? That's where it came from, guys. Okay?
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: So the renunciation of men and masculinities, it gets into
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: these entertainment mediums, and what happens? The male characters start
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: to become, I don't know, laughingstocks? Like they start to become,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: they become neutered? They get replaced by women, and this
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: happened in games. It happened well before in fiction publishing.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: It's happened in animation. It's happened in comics. Any entertainment
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: medium you can mention, this is what's occurring. And alongside
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: it is this idea that if you point women into
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: these positions, these creative positions of power over a creative project,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: somehow they're going to... smash patriarchy. Well, you can trace
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: the lines back to this field, and this particular Medium
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: article is borrowing the language from this field. So I
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: have not figured out if the publication that this author
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: goes through also has the same kind of funding complex
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: as the field of Psychology of Men and Masculinities. But,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: you know, that's a project for another day. But she
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: does borrow the language. So I figured, you know, it'd
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: be fun to go through this kind of academic cancer
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: and how it translates into the wild. Into the average
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: coffee shop... No, I don't even think she's a coffee
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: shop feminist. Just the normal, okay feminist? Like, is there
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: a category for that now? I don't know if there's
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: a new term for them.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Normie feminist?
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: I mean... Normie feminist. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but strangely... Useful
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: idiot feminist?
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Is that what you mean?
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: But strangely, one that borrows the very language from the...
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: What is it? Tentacle? Hydra that we have been attempting
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: to pull out into the light and say, yeah, this
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: is the thing, guys. Gamergate, this is what you were fighting, right? Comicsgate, yep, yep.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: We don't have a TV.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Metalgate.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Metalgate, yeah, here it is.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Short-lived Metalgate, yeah.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Metalgate, they weren't consumed by this. No, no,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: it didn't last like a week. Somehow they didn't manage
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: to get metal. That's why we need metal Girl Scouts.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: But anyway, yeah, so it's been in Comic Gate. It's
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: been in Gamer Gate. What were the other gates? Sad
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Puppies was talking about the takeover of fiction. Yeah, and
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there was other things. The animation, I don't
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: think there was an animation gate.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: No, there wasn't, like, a gate for these things, but
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: you could just look at, like, the absolute state of, like,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: basically our culture.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Like, all of our cultural institution. Dongle Gate, yeah.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like there's the YouTuber Jesterbell, she's constantly
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: kind of cataloging the destruction that's being created by this. Well,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: if you were ever wondering where the destruction is coming from,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: it comes from the psychology of men in masculinity's field
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: in conjunction with feminists, you know, smashing the patriarchy. What
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: does smashing the patriarchy mean? It means renunciation for men.
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  Speaker 2: So men have to renunciate their masculinity. They have to
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  Speaker 2: renunciate their heroism. They have to renunciate that kind of
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: desire to go out in the world and affect positive things,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: to feel like you're effective. So they have to renunciate
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: all of that. They renunciate any value to masculinity. And
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: women have to be vindicated. So they were, what is it,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: always right all along? And the only problem is that
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: they didn't believe in themselves. And why didn't they believe
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: in themselves? Because of men, which is why men need
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: to renunciate themselves. That is the smash the patriarchy toolkit.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: And it's like this is where this is this is
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: where it all comes from. This is where all STEM
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: is from. This is the ideological font of it all.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: And again, I was just like, wow, this Medium article,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: it's just right there. It's right in the epicenter. Let's
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: do it. And we'll do it while doing repo, which
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: is not really in the epicenter of anything, but at
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: least it's a game that hasn't been destroyed, I guess. Oh, well.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I don't want to know about the people that work there.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: There's probably some of this, but they're not bringing it
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: into the game, so whatever, you know?
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Okay. Okay.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, so, should I invite people and then start reading? No,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: let's read a little bit.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, would inviting people help them get in and ready?
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, I think that you're usually the last
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: one to join, if anything. And Lindsay's not around yet.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know if she's going to be. Let me
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: find out.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: How about we read?
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Well, we could just read a little bit. I mean,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Brian's probably AFK, so... Alright, so one of the.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Alright, I'm sorry. I'm back.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. No, it's fine. I can now retain what
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: I was about to say for the bulk of the
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: discussion after you start the article.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's go.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm going to read the article now, right? Yes. Okay,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: so is this the one I wrote about admirable men
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: and some guys objected?
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's the one. The other one, I sent Brian
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: another one, but on second thought, I figured that it
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: was just really just incoherent insanity. Which, I don't know
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: what we would do with it. We would read it
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: and we'd be like, this is the thing. Like, this
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: is literally watching someone have a public schizophrenic break with reality.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: But with feminist buzzwords. So, I mean, maybe we could
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: go over it sometime if you guys are interested. But,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it's pretty... It's.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: A little too schizo for the... This one's a little
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: bit more like something you can respond to. Coherent?
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no point.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: In responding to someone who's yelling at pigeons. So, all right.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: This is from L. Bo, a medium, and it's called,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: I wrote about admirable men and some guys objected. As
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: if regular men couldn't have those same qualities or do
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: those same pro-social acts as the stars I named. So,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: all right. And then there's like a picture of Pedro Pascal.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: I'll save you guys the cringe for that.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: So, one of the central aspects of the social system
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: of patriarchy is that it teaches men to be insecure.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Because patriarchy is, at its core, a dominance-based hierarchy where
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: everyone has to compete for rank and place in an
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: imaginary pecking order, men in particular can get sucked into
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: this game.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: All right. How many things are wrong with this? Let's
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: count them. One of the central aspects of the social
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: system of patriarchy. Okay. First of all, I have now
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: gone through multiple layers of feminist theorizing, and patriarchy does
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: not behave like a scientific concept. I think it's, at best,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: a premise that has never been clearly defined, as far
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: as I can tell. I mean, I still have to
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: do my deep dive into the foundational text, but it
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: doesn't act like something that's clearly defined like a concept
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: in another scientific field. So they haven't actually established any
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: of this. So she might as well be saying the
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: underpants gnomes. All the central aspects of the social system
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: of the underpants gnomes is it teaches underpants to be
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: insecure about being in your underpants drawer. Like it's just nonsense.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Unsupported nonsense. Now, again, I'm only at, like, layer of
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: hell seven in proving that this is unsupported nonsense. I'll
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: give you a page if I ever find any support
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: for this. But this is like, they do not have
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: the basic questions in place for this even to begin
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: to be scientific. They haven't asserted it in a way
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: that can be falsifiable, which means it can't be proven.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: So it's like the first sentence is, if you take
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: my unfalsifiable premise... To be true, that I have barely,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: that a, the field that I am drawing from just
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: asserts as a premise, like, it's just wrong on its face.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Because patriarchy is at its core a dominance-based hierarchy. It isn't! Like,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: and this is where the whole thing butts up against anthropology.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Human males do not have a dominance-based hierarchy. That's baboons!
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: And not even all baboons. There's some subtypes of baboons
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: that don't do this, they're more affiliative, right? Okay, we
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: don't have a society along the lines of the Baboon. Right?
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: We just don't. And they're not even, like, men's hierarchies
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: aren't even chimp hierarchies, which are coalitional aggressive hierarchies, where
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: you still engage in a lot of violence in order
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: to attain greater rank. Human male hierarchies are competence-based hierarchies.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: They are competence-based. So men move up and down the
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: hierarchy based on their competence and how important it is
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: to whatever thing the group is doing at the moment
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: or needs to have done in a particular sphere. That's
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: why we have advanced societies. If men had a dominance-based hierarchy,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: we'd still be baboons on the savannah. So this is wrong.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: It's just on every angle this is wrong. Right, and
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: then we get to, and place an imaginary pecking order.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Men in particular can get sucked into this game. An
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: imaginary pecking order. Well, lady, I can tell you that
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: in baboon societies, the pecking order is not imaginary. And
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: in chimp societies, likewise, the pecking order is not imaginary.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: So how is it that you have translated this to
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: an imaginary pecking order for humans? So it's like, on
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: every level, this is incoherent mush.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I think it's because... If I had to guess why
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: she would say that, it's because she's so far removed
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: from the way that men organize and work to build
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: society and run it and maintain it, which requires hierarchy.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: But she's so removed from it, she can just make
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: these assertions. It's all made up. And it's only because
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: she's so, like I said, so far removed. I don't
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: know how else to describe it. It's like saying... We
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: don't need borders or military or police because I've never
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: been robbed or I've never had to deal with, you know,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know, illegals like swarming my community or I
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: don't have I never it's almost like I've never had
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: to deal with these things. So the things that exist
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: to that, you know, keep things that way must not
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: be necessary because I have never had that issue. So
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: when you say that the male hierarchy is like this
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: made up thing, which it's obviously not because how, again,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: how is it we have everything we have if it
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: weren't for that? Then you're obviously somebody who just is
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: so safe. You have it so good. You have no
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: idea like the sacrifices that are being made right now
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: for you to keep that. I don't know how, I
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: just know it's out there. I know it exists, but
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: she doesn't want to. And so she's just, again, I
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: think she's just ignorant, just ignorant that this, that her
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: state of being rests on all of the work and
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: sacrifice that men have to do. It's the only way.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's ignorant. It also does have an ideological providence,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: what she's saying. Again, in the psychology of men and
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: masculinities field, which asserts, in defiance of every bit of
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: evidence it has, that masculinity is dominance. But what's really interesting, again,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: is what she's describing... is the relational web, which is
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: about hierarchy, it is about dominance, it is about access
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: to resources, it's all the things she's describing, and it's
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: also imaginary. So there you go, like, she's basically saying,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: insofar men act like women, they don't! What you're describing, lady,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: is the dark side of your own behavior as a woman.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: So yeah, she doesn't have a connection to men's hierarchies
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: and how they work, so she supplies her own. And
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: that's what's really interesting is because we have this cabal
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: of men who are encouraging women to misinterpret the dark
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: side of women's own behavior as male. And then write
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: stuff like this. And that would be the guys in
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: the psychology of men and masculinities field. But again, she's
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: importing this whole idea from that field that masculinity is dominance. However,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: the studies in that field have basically proven that that
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: isn't the case. Most men reject dominance as a masculine norm.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: They reject it. They reject power over women as a
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: masculine norm. Around the world, they reject it. This is
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: one of the most rejected parts of the supposed conformity
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: to masculine norms inventory. And yet it's continuously asserted as
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: a basic feature of masculinity. How is a norm that
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: is almost universally rejected by men a norm that they
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: are upholding? Like the very field has actually, what has
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: happened is the field imported or inherited the idea that
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: men are defined in terms of their dominance over women.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: It imported that from feminism. And now in its seminal
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: freaking survey, the general masculinity survey around the world, it
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: has discovered that around the world, men reject dominance over
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: women as a norm. And nobody is like updating this.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Like even even the field that she's drawing her information
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: from knows or must know at this point in time
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: that men reject dominance over women as a norm. They
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: must know it because that's what they keep returning. Okay.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: But let's, let's continue with her bad self. All right.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Uh, The slow real... This is a quote from someone
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: named Mark Green. The slow realization that we can never
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: win is the unspoken and unacknowledged source of the male
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: panic and rage surging through our culture. Like many men,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: I've wasted decades of my life trying to perform the
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: man-box model of manhood, which by design leaves us struggling
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: to prove our manhood while forever failing to completely do so.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Mark Green. That sounds like a you problem, Mr. Green.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know... And this is... So Mark Green is
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: just another guy who wrote a blog called Man Box
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Culture and the Backlash Against Women's Equality. And so it
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: sounds like a male feminist fighting for women's equality. And
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: so part of that means flogging yourself as a man. And, well,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: I got a couple super chats. I should probably read them.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: But that was that quote. Hold on a second. Albatross
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: gave us $ 2 and said, Do women not have hierarchies ever? Projection?
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Dylon 102001 said, for $ 10, thank you, patriarchy theory is
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: the feminist equivalent of flat earth theory. It attempts to
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: describe the world in general terms, but fails to make
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: any verifiable predictions like relativity or evolution does. And then
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Roboto1234567 gives us a rumble rant for two and says,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: have you considered some of these women are in fact
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: actual baboons? It would not surprise me. Oh, yeah.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: I sometimes think that that might be... Maybe what we're
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: actually responding to is a room full of baboons and typewriters.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they gave them keyboards and computers and let them
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: post on social media.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. But, yeah, this... I want... Okay. So, I
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: think you were going somewhere, Brian. Did you want to
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: finish before we... Yeah.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: So.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so like, I was walking the dog today, and
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I was talking to Lindsay, and the reason why she's
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: late is because she found a tick on herself, and
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: she's a little freaking out right now because she doesn't
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: want to get ticks, but, and she's checking the dog.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: But anyway, I was talking about Medium, and what I
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: think the reason, what I think is going on, I'm
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: not sure if I'm going to be able to put
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: this into words well, but It's interesting because I think
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: that places like Medium, and probably like a lot of
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: other places, if not most places on the internet in general,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: everyone who's contributing to them are all sort of towing
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: the line on these feminist beliefs, for example. And because
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: everyone is writing about feminism in the same way, where
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: they're all like, talking about toxic masculinity, the man box,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: all of the problems women have, Roe v. Wade, Me Too,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: whatever it is. It doesn't matter. Whatever it is. Most
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: of it revolving around small things like relationship issues. I mean,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's a small thing, but it's not
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: like a political issue. And I think that what happens
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: is the more people contribute, the more likely they are
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: to toe the line on whatever the consensus is, And
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: women respond to that same things. They're all looking for
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: consensus as well. So they're looking at everyone else's medium content.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: They're seeing the same patterns of like, oh, they're talking
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: about these issues from this perspective and these opinions. And
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: those people are getting boosted. They're getting a lot of,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you can like make money on
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: medium or whatever, but they all have like large followings.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: You know, they have lots of comments. There's lots of engagement.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: So that person is getting a lot of attention. So
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I think that women are more likely to, say, well,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: this must be what everyone believes. Therefore, this must be true. Therefore,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I'm going to contribute to this conversation and throw my
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: two cents in and say a lot of the same things,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: which is why when we read these medium blogs, it's
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: like you can predict what they're going to say. Like
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: you already know what they're going to say because they're
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: getting their talking points from other people who have gotten
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: their talking points from other people. So I'm just saying
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: that this woman is not much different. She's basically like
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: falling into the whole of affirmation of consensus. I'm going
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: to jump, jump on this. And this man is, is
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: her evidence that this is not what she's doing because
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: there's a man who also made a blog post on medium.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: That's towing the line about the man box. And he
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: is probably, you know, getting a lot of engagement and
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of follows. So it's like a self perpetuating, um,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: grievance machine, if that makes sense. And, and the women
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: just jump on the bandwagon for that. Does that make sense?
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I, I think, and I'm not saying, well,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: I do question how many women actually really believe this stuff.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: And they're just, they're just saying what they think they
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: need to say so that they are on the, on
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: the majority of people's good side because they, women don't
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: want to be excluded or, you know, pushed out or
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: isolated because, you know, in, I think in ancient times
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: that would have been really risky. So women would have
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: tended to go along with the crowd and, And I
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: think that that's what a lot of this blogging is.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's not important to talk about. I'm
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: just saying that that's what I think it comes from.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: And this man, he knows that that's the game, I think.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: So he's like, well, what do I say about myself
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: as a man? Like I'm on Medium, okay, and I
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: make blogs. And I see basically a swath of people
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: all shitting on men and masculinity and pathologizing it and
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: talking about how bad women have it or whatever. And
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: everyone's got their own take. And this guy is like, well,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: if I do that too, I'm going to get a
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: lot of support. I'm going to get a lot of views.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: People are going to read my blog, etc. So I
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: think he's just doing that. I mean, maybe it's a
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: bit cynical of me to say, but it seems to
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: me that he's just doing that because he knows it works.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: So it's getting him attention and views, etc. So, yeah.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: There's no cynicism in that. That's exactly how it's supposed
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: to work. The thing is that you got... One of
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: the things is when I talk about this stuff is
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: trying to get men to understand the relational web. And
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: then also, like, I mean, if women were listening to
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: understand why it is that men read this stuff, like
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: normal men, not the guys who are virtue signaling on
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: a blog. They read this stuff, and it's just incomprehensible
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: to them. It's not, like... Like, women will interpret the
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: incomprehensibility of it as some kind of sign that a
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: man is a bad person. But it's just that men
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: don't natively understand what the relational web is trying to do.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: And right here... You're looking like Brian, you're looking for
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: a there there. You're like, well, it's cynical to say
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: that all he's doing is virtue signaling because you're looking
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: for the cost, right? You're looking for the action that
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: he should be taking in order to do something for
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: the things that he's virtue signaling about. That's not relevant
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: to the relational web. They stop at the virtue signal.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: So they don't see it as like this guy being cynical.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Of course you do. Because you're a man and you're
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: judging him based on the way men judge each other,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: which Kimmel has no clue about, which makes me really
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: wonder about the state of certain aspects of his anatomy.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: But regardless, you're judging this by the way a man
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: would judge it. And you're saying, well, this guy's being
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: cynical because you're like, well, where's the cost? What cost
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: is he paying for these virtue signaling? The women don't
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: see it that way. The act, the act of empathy,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: the act of expressing concern is the thing for them.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: He is expressing concern. There's nothing further to investigate about
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: this man. He has expressed concern. It costs him nothing,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: but he has expressed it. Therefore, he is doing the
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: entirety of the act that needs to be done. There's
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: no cynicism in it. Like there's no assumption of cynicism
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: because they don't take it any further. You see what
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: I'm saying?
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is complete in and of itself. So that dude,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: virtue signaling his own renunciation of his masculinity, which honestly, guys,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: is like the biggest goddamn red flag.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Jesus. This guy is signaling his renunciation of his masculinity.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: The women who are orientating towards it see it as
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: it is the thing it is. He is doing the
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: good thing. Therefore, he is the good person. And the
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: good thing has no action. It has no cost. It's
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: just a signal. He's signaling the good thing. I shouldn't
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: have even said doing. He's signaling the good thing. Therefore,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: he is the good person. And you're like, you're a man,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: and you're looking at that, and you're saying, but there's
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: something missing. Yeah. There's nothing missing for the women. Nothing.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Which is why they keep getting sucked into the sociopaths
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: and the narcissists. Because they don't realize there's something missing there.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: There's something really missing. Particularly when you're talking about a
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: creature that's significantly more physically powerful than the rest of
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the people in the society he operates in. And I'm
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: actually looking into the physiometrics of this. It's undeniable, right?
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: That kind of creature who is willing to not look
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: at cost and not look at what is costly... cost
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: to others cost expected cost to himself or spending himself
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: in cost who doesn't see the world in terms of
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: costs but instead sees the world in terms of virtue
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: signaling that creature is dangerous like this dude writing this
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: thing on this blog i would not go near him
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: right i wouldn't be caught dead anywhere near him just
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: because of what he's doing and what he's saying. He's
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: saying he doesn't immediately jump to the cost of things.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: So he doesn't think about the cost to the world
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: about what he does. You see what I'm saying?
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: He doesn't error check himself against the world. He error
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: checks himself against hollow virtue signaling. That's a dangerous man. Literally,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: feminists is constructing camouflage for dangerous men. Now, he could
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: just be a theater kid, right? And just danger to
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: nothing because he's, I don't know, 110 pounds and soaking
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: wet or something. And all he's a danger to is feminists.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Who knows? All he's a danger to is a gin
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: and tonic, whatever the type of guy he is. So
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: he might be a theater kid, so there's no danger there.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: And that he's just expressing this because he's sort of
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: feminine in his nature. And he really isn't like a
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: dangerous sociopath. But how do you tell the difference? This
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: is what should make women run cold, blood run cold.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: You cannot tell the difference here. The only way you
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: can tell the difference is if this man is saying, no,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to do that. I can't make my
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: brain think in terms of costless virtue signaling. It doesn't work.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: It doesn't compute. It's confusing to me. That's a dude
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: you could probably trust because he's thinking about the cost
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: of things, including the cost of his own behavior or
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: his own actions to the world around him. That's what
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: custodial monitoring is. And all these men are signaling is
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: that they don't do it. Right?
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: And that's sort of dangerous, considering the stuff that I'm
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: finding about the differential in strength between men and women
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: and men and people who are older and children. Right?
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: It's pretty substantial. It's like these memes of the AI
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: robots going ballistic. Have you seen them?
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: No, not recently. Yeah, well, okay.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: So like they'll have like, there was one that I
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: saw where in China, this robot kicked a kid.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're talking about video clips that have like leaked
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: out of like Chinese robots flipping out. Yeah. I've seen
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: some of those. It's not just Chinese robots, but there's
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: a lot.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Of Chinese robots. Yeah, there's just a lot of Chinese robots, period.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that is the behavior of something that does
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: not monitor its cost to the world around it. A
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: man would not kick a kid in the stomach like that.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: A man sparring with another man wouldn't kick his sparring
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: partner in the balls just accidentally because they would be
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: constantly aware of the potential cost of other people to
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: their physical actions. That's why when men read these feminist
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: articles that say, hey dudes, you should just see your
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: morality in terms of virtue signaling, not understanding of cost,
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: which they don't, you know, like feminist women don't realize
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: what they're telling men to not do, right? They just
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: think they're telling men to be human beings, right? You're
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: supposed to see the world in terms of hollow virtue signaling,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: not recognition of cost. Well, that's how you get the Terminator.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: All right. Let's go.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: All right. So do you want me to read some
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: more or I because I started inviting people into the game.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: But OK. Official revert. Well, I got a super child.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Official reverse traditionalism channel on YouTube gave us five dollars
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: and said polygamy sounds terrifying. Imagine being a man walking
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: into a kitchen where four wives are all mad at
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: you at the same time.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: That's terrifying. I think there's a proverb in China about
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: when the lead wife agrees with the subordinate wife. It's
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: like hell is opening up or something. You need to
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: be afraid.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Okay. So, yeah, let's read a bit more.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: All right. I'll read a bit more.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I'll try to be quiet.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: All right. It's well documented that masculinity is a performance
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: of acceptable traits primarily for the evaluation and approval of
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: other men. You see how that sounds like it was
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: literally copy-pasted off of some other blog somewhere? That was
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: likely copy pasted from somewhere else. Women do this with
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: other women to some extent, particularly when closed environments like
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: a school or work environment or Instagram.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: What?
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: But there's a lot more leeway in the past 50
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: years for what constitutes a real woman. So it doesn't
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: carry the same weight. Also in a patriarchy, what men
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: who have been the dominant class by law and custom
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: until only a few decades ago, what men do matters
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: more to others than from that same dominant class. So, again,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: we automatically have the framing of men being dominant over
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: women and having all the power, which sounds like some
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Michelle Foucault type shit.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: A few decades ago. So, in the 90s. So, that's the... Okay, guys,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: it's moved now. Ten years ago, I said it would.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: I said that it moves from, like, the 50s being
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: the horrible site of.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Well, she said 50 years, in the last 50 years.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: But that would be, like, the 70s, 80s?
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but she's saying that men have been the dominant
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: class by law and custom until only a few decades ago. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: not even. That's like that's like now. Oh, God. That's
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: now the early 2000s. Well, the early 2000s. You remember
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: back then when you dominated women? Yeah.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know how many decades a few represents, but.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: You usually represents two. Is it? A few, yeah, less
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: than three.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Well, okay.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Maybe three or two. But even, I mean, the 90s
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: doesn't gain her much.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: No.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: In terms of men's overt legal dominance over women. Yeah. Like,
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: she'd have to, probably a century would gain her something.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: But even then, it doesn't gain her a heck of
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: a lot if you look at the legal situation honestly,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: because with any kind of custodial so-called right came custodial responsibilities.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: So men never have just dominance. And it's not really
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: even dominance. Because, for example, even 150 years ago, if
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: a man was abusive to his wife, she had legal
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: recourse to leave him. So the dominance, the so-called dominance,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: which is more termed custodial rights, ended where her harms began.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: So his custodial rights were constrained to benefiting her. And
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: were defined in law in terms of benefiting her. And
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: were removed if he failed to benefit her. So, yeah, sure,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: men had custodial rights, but they were judged entirely in
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: terms of benefit to the women they had custodial rights over.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if you can call it over
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: at that point. For. Custodial rights for. So this is
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: like a complete misapprehension of what's going on. And again,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: that ties in perfectly with the fact that men around
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: the world reject the concept that masculinity is dominance over women.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: That's not what it is. That's not what it is
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: in the ethnographic surveys. It's not what men say masculinity is.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: It's not what men agree to on the feminist norms
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: that feminists say men hold surveys, that men wholesale reject.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: So it's like, this is not it, madam. This is
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: not it. And it is not going to ever be it.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: And then what's really interesting about this paragraph is that
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: she says, because women are more free from feminine norms,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: men have to do more work to express allyship to women.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Does that even make sense? Like, men, you're in a prison, so...
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: And these women, they've gotten out of prison, so now
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: your job to get out of prison is to express
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: allyship or how imprisoned women are by you. It's like, okay,
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: where does this start to make sense? It doesn't. It's
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: like relational web signaling. It's only signaling coordinates, not concepts
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: or like coherent causality. All right. All right. We'll do Kimmel.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: So let's do the quote. Oh, no, it's Flood. It's Flood.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: It's Flood that I keep getting in arguments with.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's Flood that you keep arguing with.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Kimmel's the one who's completely discredited, wasn't he?
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Kimmel was the one that went to the
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Red Pill documentary screening and ended up getting wrecked by
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: you and Karen, I think it was. I wasn't, was
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: I there for that? I don't remember. I don't think
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: I was there for that.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: I think you went to the West Coast ones.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I did. I went to the West Coast one.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: All right, so continuing on. As the sociologist Michael Kimmel
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: notes in his indispensable cultural history, Manhood in America, men
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: care a great deal about what other men think of them.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Not true. In fact, he says, quote, in large part,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: it's other men who are important to American men. They
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: define their masculinity not as much in relation to women,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: but in relation to one another. Masculinity is largely a
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: homosocial enactment. This is a quote from, I guess, a
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: book or essay he wrote called The Macho Paradox, Why
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: to End Domestic Violence, Mental and Emotional Abuse, and Sexual
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Harassment by Jackson Katz. Oh, yeah, so the Jackson Katz
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: is another guy. So I guess there's like a quote
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: from Michael Kimmel in a Jackson Katz book. Okay. Should
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: I continue?
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah, this is nothing. None of this is actually proven.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Like when you listen to these assertions, you have to
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: understand that this is just a bunch of dudes in
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: a field sniffing each other's farts. And basically saying, my
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: citation is, well, it's flex farts. And my citation, well,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: it's the stink of blood's taint. Like there's nothing in
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: this except a circular citation squad. This is not proven.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Masculinity is homosocial? Not proven. Maybe it's homosocial in that
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: men are in the competence hierarchy with each other. Right?
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: But it's not. And that men are trying to demonstrate
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: competence in their field. I don't know if it's for
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: respect for other men. I mean, I guess that's a
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: component of it. But just competence in the field is
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: a good in and of itself. A man can go
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: off and hide in a shack in the woods and
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: practice wood carving for 30 years and never have another
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: man look at his stuff again. And, you know, when
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: he dies and you open it up and you're like, wow,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: this is an incredible level of competence that this man achieved.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: And that's entirely conceivable because competence is an external, like
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: it's an external standard. You can judge yourself by a
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: standard that has nothing to do with your relationship to
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: another human being, which is why what's really interesting about
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: this is that all of these so-called male masculinities researchers
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: all have the same failure point. They are all transcribing
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: relational web reasoning to men. Do you see what I'm saying?
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: That's what he's doing there. He's saying, well, men are
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: gaining confidence because of the change in their... No! Men
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: gain confidence because they want to gain confidence. Like, you
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: can see that. Yeah. Like, why do men dig a
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: hole in the beach? Because they want a deep hole, right?
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: That's sort of a competence. It's just, even just playing,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: men are trying to derive competence. That's where games come from.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: That's where scored games come from.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Because you're like, oh, that's a cool thing. Why don't
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: we score it and then have two opposing teams? And
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: that's not about the opinions of other men. It's about
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: giving competence something. Yeah. And yeah, other than appreciating.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, why do people... Well, I was going to say,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: why do people do no-hit runs, you know, in video
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: games or speed runs or, you know, play, I don't know,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Dark Souls New Game Plus 7 with a fucking Dance
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Dance Revolution pad, you know? Like, is it because they're
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: wondering how other men are going to celebrate them? Or
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: are they just trying to see if they can pull
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: it off? And then they're just kind of like saying, hey,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: look what I did.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: They don't understand that. They do not understand just a
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: man testing himself against the world or against an external
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: standard and gaining competence because he wants to do that,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: not because he's going to get respect or whatever else.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: And that's the big failure mode. I think like the
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: men in the men in the mask, the psychology of
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: men and masculinities, they consistently make the same failure mode. Right?
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: And that failure mode is assuming that men do things
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: to rank themselves in the relational web of other men.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not even sure. You've got to prove that men
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: really even have a relational web.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't think they do. I mean, that is
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: not to say that men don't bond. But I don't
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: think they bond in relational webs like women do.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: They bond towards a goal. They bond towards, you know,
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: a competence goal. And, um, I mean, they'd also have friendships,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: like I guess Frodo and Sam would be an example
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: of that. Very strong friendships. But that also was a
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: bond that was derived through a shared goal. A very
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: arduous one.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: So it's like, I don't, like, I am not convinced
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: that these people are describing men. And then when they go, like,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: these masculinities, these, I don't even know what, immasculinities, the field,
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: the psychology of, uh, not men and masculinities, when these
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: researchers go and they explain this stuff to men and
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: they just get a blank stare, like, what? They say
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: that that is evidence that they are correct about their
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: assumptions about men. So men can never talk about what
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: they care about, about their norms, without even expressing them,
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: being evidence that the feminists are right, that men really
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: are about dominance. So this survey that has shown that
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: men reject dominance, obviously what's happening here is that men
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: are lying about rejecting dominance or something. And that when
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: men don't understand what these guys are asserting about men,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: that means that men are even more inscrutably evil. Nothing
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: is a defense, is what I'm getting at. You cannot
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: defend yourself. You can only be guilty if you are
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: a man. And then they say they have the audacity
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: to say that their entire field isn't anti-male. Yeah, yeah.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: All right, so should we, what?
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I think we probably should do another section. It's
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: just we're talking, like I am talking a lot, not you.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: It is entirely my fault.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Let's just try to get.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: A little bit more in. Is everybody in yet? Yeah,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: they're all in.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, well then I will go in if you send.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Me an invite.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not online. Well, I'll send it again. Wait, no,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: you're not online. Oh, I see Death Rider. I see Gabriel. Oh, yeah,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Dire Hawk. There it goes.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: All right, I just sent it. I'm waiting for Allison
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: to join, and then I've got to turn her volume down.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm opening it up.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Dick forward. What?
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: What? No, go ahead. Say Dick Forward. I think you
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: missed a Super Chow, though. I might as well tell
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: you that.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: All right, so I got a Super Chow from Dick
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Forward for $ 5. He says, China needs to be stopped.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: They are teaching robots kung fu. This will be a
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: weapon to surpass Metal Gear. All right.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but the thing is, my point is this. A
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: man would be able to immediately moderate. Like, even before
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: he threw that kick, you know that he would have
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: moderated it so it wouldn't have harmed the kid.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Sure all right all right all right get in get
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: in here i'm in i'm in the rig i don't
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: nobody can hear you you're not talking or.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Something okay just a sec just a sec hello can
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: you guys talk hear me no no no okay let
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: me put it down hello all right no okay you.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Gotta set your set your uh microphone.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah uh microphone okay.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Thanks for the super show nope still nothing Okay.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: All right, let me see. All right, so the microphone
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: is the SteelSeries. That's correct. Hello? Oh, goodness. This is unfortunate.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: This is really unfortunate. Okay. Wait, let me see. Hello?
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Hello?
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Okay. Nope.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at your, your, your head's not flapping. There's
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: no sound coming out.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know my head's not flapping. I don't know
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: what's going on. Let me see if my husband can
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: help Jonathan. The heads that it's not registering this. Okay.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: So I guess we'll just have to keep, Oh, apparently
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: it was not turned on.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: All right. There we go.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. There you go. Okay. Now, can you guys
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: hear Alison? Does she sound okay?
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I have her.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: I have her muted on my end.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: So in the game, I mean, yeah, yeah. Hopefully not everywhere.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: All right, so I'm good. My head's flapping. I am
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: suitably Canadian now. So shall we do another segment or
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: just do a part of the game?
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: I could read a little bit more, I mean, if
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: you guys are okay with that, and then we'll start.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: I'll read up until this paragraph. I'll just read this paragraph, okay?
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: It's not a long article, so... All right. So why
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: are some men cheesed off that I wrote a whole...
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: that I wrote about a whole bunch of really great
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: guys who just happen to be in the public eye.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Who knows for sure? It seems pretty pathetic to me.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: But I suspect it has something to do with the
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: whole dominance hierarchy pyramid and how the more men are
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: bought into patriarchy, the more they feel the pressure to
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: measure up by those standards. When they don't, they feel
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: insecure and bad about themselves. Don't hold up stars for
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: me as role models because I'm never going to be
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: that rich or famous. This is completely missing the whole point.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. So let me just do a sympathy exercise here, lady.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: Let's imagine that, I don't know, I don't want to
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: say your husband, but let's imagine that a male blogger
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: had these women who were, they had assets, let's say,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: and they were all young and beautiful. And he said,
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: these are the examples of opinions, women's opinions that I
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: care about. And then you were like, but I see
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: two big reasons why you care about these women's opinions.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: And I don't have those big reasons.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: He says, it's not about their assets. It's about the
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: fact that they love to make sandwiches for men. And
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: then you're like, because this is basically what this is.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: She doesn't realize that that's what she's doing. Just so
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: happens that the men that she points to as desirable,
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: socially desirable, of course, not desirable in terms sexually, presumably,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: just happen to be rich with large audiences that can
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: receive their virtue signals. And then when men come up
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: and say, hey, these guys have substantial assets that I
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: don't have, she says it's not about the assets. It's
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: about the fact that their opinions are consistent with what
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: I want, like what I want men to believe. And
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: the thing is that when she says that these men
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: have opinions consistent with what she believes as a woman,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: or they behave consistent with what she thinks is appropriate,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: she is essentially judging them. by the same standard of
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: a man saying, well, I want a woman who benefits me, right?
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Or I want a woman who does this, that, or
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: the other thing. I want a woman who has these values. Now,
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: that's not a bad thing necessarily, except the values that
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: she's expecting from these men are, I don't want you
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: to think like men. I don't want you to, I
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: don't believe that your cognitive modality that you have as
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: a man, right? The way that you think as a man,
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: I don't like it. I want you to regard my
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: own way of thinking to be superior to yours and
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: your way of thinking to be a marker of being
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: a subhuman. I'm like, okay, so not only are these
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: dudes like, you know, you only allow into your golden
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: circle men who have substantial assets and a large audience
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: to listen to their virtue signaling. The things that you
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: expect men to say are basically your beliefs about men
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: and Your beliefs that your way of looking at the
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: world as a woman is superior to men's way of
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: looking at the world. And in fact, not just superior,
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: not just superior in a certain circumstance, it is what
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: makes a person a human being. Virtue signaling is what
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: makes a person a human being, a good human being,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: a human being worthy of existing. So it's like on
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: every level, this is so tone deaf on her part.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: And the other thing is that... Okay.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: I just said yeah.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: So... Yeah, no, I know, I know. Let's read the
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: next paragraph, because I could continue, but I think that
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: the next part that I was going to say might
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: do better after. Okay.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: How did you gloss over the places I talked about
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: in that story were qualities that any man could cultivate....
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: What?
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, let me read that again. How did you gloss
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: over the places I talked about in that story were
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: qualities that any man could cultivate regardless of income or visibility?
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Besides being too bought into dominance hierarchy ladders, these naysayers
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: are also creating an excuse for themselves... for why they
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: don't have to try that hard to create and uphold
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: a positive, egalitarian culture. Oh man, I almost threw up
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: in my mouth a little bit. You only care about
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: rich stars, so that's my excuse to not have to
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: really work hard around this stuff. She says that she
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: pretends to be quoting something that men did say, even
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: though they probably didn't.
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah okay besides okay so once again she pre-assigns any
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: criticism of what she's demanding of men right you know
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: men have to have big assets and they also have
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: to virtue signal the way i want them to while
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: regarding the way men conduct themselves in the world and
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: experience cost and empathy to be inferior to a point
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: of being subhuman right i have to do all that
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: like this is the female equivalent of a man saying
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: yeah she's got to get have big boobs and be
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: chained to the radiator Like that's literally what she's saying. Well,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: not literally, but it's the equivalent. Like this, like this,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: this is what I want people to fix in her mind.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: This woman is saying the equivalent to men as your
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: value is having big boobs, no waist, making babies and
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: being chained to my radiator. That's the essential, what she is,
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: the equivalent of what she's saying for men. And it's
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: sort of gross, but again, any man who disagrees with
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: being put in the equivalent position as a woman, right,
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: in that circumstance, she pre-categorizes any disagreement, any disagreement to
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: this as evidence that her appraisal of men as being
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: inferior is true. And invalid, like the way that men
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: do things is invalid. Any objection by men is evidence
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: that she is correct.
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: And again, why they don't have to try that hard
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: to create and uphold a positive egalitarian culture. Well, first
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: of all, what she's okay. Actually, let's get into the
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: list of what she's describing men do.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: In my, in my, where are you? Are you doing
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: it or do you want me to do it? No, no, no.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: I'm just, should I read if I read the next part?
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: All right, so in my essay, I talked about men
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: being an ally and a supporter to LGBTQ plus folks. Okay,
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: that has nothing to do with, okay, whatever. Supporting organizations
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: that are trying to curb violence. Standing up for the
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: importance of diversity in the arts and media. Standing against
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: domestic violence. I talked about loving and supporting your family
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: and being so secure in yourself and your masculinity that
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: you can view women as fellow human beings and not
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: just sex objects who are beneath you. How on earth
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: is any of that only the purview of the rich
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: and famous?
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: Okay. All right. So let me explain the situation from
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: the relational web point of view and why there's this
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: big chasm in understanding. All right. First of all, she
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: is already describing a role of men beneath her. So
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: she is standing in judgment of men and how men,
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: what men must do, and it's not even really an action,
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: what men must say in order to earn out of
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: the black category she puts them into in the first place.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: And any objection to being put in that black category is,
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: of course, more evidence that men need to do more
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: work to get moved.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Out of it.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: So she's a massive fucking chauvinist. And it's sort of gross,
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: but I will just take it on its face and
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: try to explain what's going on here and why men
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: might be concerned, like have a problem with it. And yes,
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: I am speaking for men. If I do it wrong,
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: tell me. I'm just doing it based on first principles,
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: based on my cognitive modalities work. All right. So what
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: she's saying is that men need to virtue signal a
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: bunch of stuff. Loving and supporting your family is an action.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: It's entirely within the custodial behavior of men. Honestly, I
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: think the only reason she put that in is to
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: make it seem like men need to follow her list
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: in order to be decent human beings, even in a
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: custodial way. So I think it's irrelevant. This is just
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: her stinger to be like, oh, and guys who don't
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: do what I say, they don't even love and support
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: their families. Being so secure yourself and your masculinity. You know, honestly,
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: I think it should be okay for men to be insecure.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't mean like it's going to be
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: something that they're comfortable with or something that they don't
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: want to get over. But feminists, can it be OK
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: for men to be insecure about something? Does this have
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: to be evidence that they are subhuman, that they have
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: an insecurity? Because this is what I'm getting from a
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: lot of feminist writers. If a man has an insecurity,
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: he should go into the bad man bin, just like
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: throw him in. He's got insecurity about his height. Oh,
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: what a filthy incel. Throw him into the bad man bin.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: He's got an insecurity about his income. Yeah, into the
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: bad man, into the trash. He's got insecurity about the
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: gigantic list of icks that women... Into the trash. Anytime
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: a man expresses an insecurity, feminists want to descend on
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: him and tear him apart. So how is that consistent
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: with men expressing anything? Generally, a lot of negative emotions
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: involve insecurities or things that are not fun. All right. Okay.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: And your masculinity that you can view women as fellow
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: human beings and not just sex objects who are beneath you. Again,
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: I've covered this. She already demonstrates amply throughout her essay
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: that she considers men to be beneath her and that
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: they have to do things to be risen out of
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: the category of subhuman and those things one-to-one correspond to
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: whatever she thinks is the flavor of the week's virtue signaling. Okay.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: All right, so she says, men being an ally and
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: a supporter to LGBTQ +. But no, there's no cooperative
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: content in that. There's nothing you do there. Supporting organizations
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: that are trying to curb violence. Does that involve, like,
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: giving money? Also, does that involve the police? Because I
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: think the police are doing more to curb violence than
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: any of these organizations that take money and then give, like,
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: 95% of it to their board as salaries or, like, grants.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Standing up for the importance of diversity in the arts
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: and media. How? How? By just, like, going on a
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: blog and, you know, like, broadcasting this stuff? Standing against...
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: What is the do here? What is the there there?
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: All she's saying is that men need to signal a position.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: And then when men are like, okay, you want me
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: to signal a position, you realize... That signaling a position
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: requires an audience to receive the signal. Because how is
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: like a lineman, like a guy who's working on the
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: electricity lines, how is he supposed to do this? Right?
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: Unless he has an audience to receive the signaling. And
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: then by signaling to that audience, because that's what's important,
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: that you promote these things to someone, he becomes a
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: good person. It's like it's like the whole slacktivism, like
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: all you do is promote something. Yeah, exactly.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: You know, and I have a bumper sticker and that's
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: all you really need.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: Coexist bumper sticker. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Like, well, basically what
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: she's what she wants is for men to do with
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Mark Green did, which is, again, go to medium dot com,
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: write a blog about how you support. what like LGBTQ
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: folks and that you're, you're against violence and you're for
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: diversity of arts and media. And, uh, you're, you're basically,
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: you just, you just have to go on medium where women,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: where a lot of women can see you and you
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: have to make it very clear that you hate yourself
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: for being a man and that you support the good
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: things and you're against the bad things. That's it. That's
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: what she's doing. And it's funny because she calls the
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: men who, who are uncomfortable or find this suspicious she
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: says oh you guys are trapped in the man box
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: while she's putting them in a box you're you're trapped
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: in you you're trapped in your own insecure you're not
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: secure in your masculinity while also saying hey guys it's
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: okay to cry and show emotions you know insecurity is
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: not one of them though you're not allowed to feel
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: that But, you know, other stuff. Crying for starving African
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: girls that don't have an education. Or, you know, for
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: the fact that Scarlett Johansson was getting less money than
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: Chris Pratt in that one movie because she complained about it. Like,
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: those are the things you're supposed to find important. And
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: you don't have to do anything about it. You just
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: need everyone to know that you disagree or agree with
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: that thing in particular, depending on what is asked of you.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: And that's it. And it's not operational. Men can't do
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: anything with it, which is probably why they don't like
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: it because... I mean, look, I'm only speaking as myself
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: as a man to expect someone to want me to
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: just go up on a podium and announce to the
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: world something that is like either I'm not comfortable with
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: or I think is obvious. Like I am against murder
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: and rape. I find that incredibly cringe. Like who the
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: hell is for those things? Save for very few people.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: And if they if those people, they're not going to
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: do what you ask if you tell them. anyways, right?
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: If you tell like an actual murderer, would you tell
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: people you're against killing? You'd be like, no, I'll kill
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: you for making me do that.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: Well, I think a murderer would, would, would freely virtue
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: signal that he, he or she is against murder because
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: it's costless.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: And that's the point.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: I think that's what you're getting at, Brian. This stuff
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: is costless, except when men look at this, they look
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: at this thing that she's telling men to do. They're
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: trying to find a cost and the cost is acquiring
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: an audience and Because this is the thing. In order
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: to virtue signal properly, you have to acquire an audience.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: And now what is the virtue signaling actually enumerated in?
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: It's in size of audience, right? So in order to
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: be the best virtue signaler or a good virtue signaler,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: you have to be a rich actor like Pedro Pistel, right?
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: You have to have an audience, right? So they are
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: correctly identifying that she has constructed a way of judging
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: men based on the amount of audience that they can
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: virtue signal towards. And it just so happens that her
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: selection are men with a large audience. A large viewership.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: People who are interested in their opinion. Who they can
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: change the minds of. So she has constructed a hierarchy
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: of worth in men. The men who are worth more
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: have more of a platform. They can virtue signal louder.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: The men who are worth less have less of a platform.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Who is the lineman going to virtue signal to? Nobody.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Doesn't have a platform. Nobody's going to listen. And it's
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: irrelevant to his job. And yet he is doing a
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: lot more to protect people from suffering than any of
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: the virtue signaling that she's telling him to do will
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: ever do. Right. So it's like when when she says
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: this to men, they're looking for the cost and the action.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: They're not finding it. And they're saying, so you'd want
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: me to become rich with a large audience because that's
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: the cost and the action. That's the only cost in
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: action that she's identifying because just what are guys going
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: to do? Just sit in their house and be like,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: I care about Martian space rocks to a wall, right?
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: And that's all they need to do.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: That's it. Make a blog about it. Make a blog
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: about it. Yeah.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: That's bullshit. Inherent in what she's saying. Inherent in what
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: she's saying is that these men have an audience. Right. Right.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: That these men say this to someone.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, they're not just saying it. I mean, obviously, like
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: famous people say this stuff because they want to keep
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: getting work. So some of them are true believers, but
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of them are just like, OK, how do
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: I say the thing that will get me more work
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: in the future? All right. I'm all for Martian space rocks.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: I think they should be allowed to get married and
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: and and and abort their babies. Yeah, I believe all
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: those things. I think it was bad. Who's the who's
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: the guy in the White House? I hate him. You know,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: that's like why? Why else? No one lists like people
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: shouldn't listen to celebrities anyway because they're fucking brain dead.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: but they're famous brain dead people that say things and
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: people like this woman listen to them. So yeah, I
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: mean this, there, there's a reason she picks them because they're, they're,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: they think that celebrities have authority. They're looking for consensus. Again,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: they're looking for consensus. So if the famous person said
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: the thing, then that, that means the thing is more
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: true than like, just like everyone around me saying the thing,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: the famous person affirms the thing. So I want to
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: hear it from them, you know? That's the only, I mean,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: why else are these people so hooked on whatever Taylor
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: Swift says or Sabrina Carpenter or whatever, whoever it is,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: the flavor of the month. Pedro Pascal's picture was shown
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: there because he is the new man. He is the
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: new face of masculinity, which is, well, you've seen the
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: clips floating around, but that's what they're pushing. That's what
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: they're pushing. They don't want men to be whatever they are.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: They don't want masculinity. They want allies that parrot what
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: they say, follow them.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: Renunciate their masculinity. Literally in the field, renunciate your masculinity.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: Renunciate it. Just say no. Spit upon it. Throw it
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: down and spit upon it. Spit upon the false masculinity, whatever.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: But the idea is that she wants men to virtue signal.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: And then the guys who say, well, what are you
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: talking about? There's no there there. Because this basically just
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: becomes a network of people virtue signaling at each other
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: if nobody actually operationalizes what you're doing here. And it
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: also stigmatizes or it completely removes from even recognition the
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: way that men do morality, which is costly. Which is
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: either you have an external standard, like, okay, maybe I
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: don't virtue signal for trans people, but I uphold their
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: right to speech. I uphold their right to association. I
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: uphold their right to freedom of pursuit of happiness and
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: whatever else, right? And I uphold those rights as I
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: would with any citizen. That's not an acceptable approach to morality.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: To judge your actions by an external standard to try
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: to live up to civic responsibilities, that's not acceptable. So
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: the way that men conceptualize morality in terms of external
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: standards becomes unacceptable. And in addition to the way that
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: men narrow the circle of concern to people that they
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: can legitimately sacrifice for, you can't sacrifice for Martian rocks,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: but you can sacrifice for your family and your community.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: So they narrow that circle at the same time as
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: they uphold external standards of treatment of others, right? Like
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: upholding others' rights. And all of that is marginalized in
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: her framework. All of that is subhuman. It's not acceptable.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: You can't enter it into evidence that men actually have
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: an ethical system. That is rather important. That men actually
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: do anything positive and pro-social by virtue of how they
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: approach the world. You can't enter that as evidence. No.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: So she's completely ostracized. She's completely removing any recognition that
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: men are good in and of themselves. They can only
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: adhere to the female way of looking at the world,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: looking at being in the world, and looking at compassion
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: in the world. So, like I said, this is why
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: I say this is the female equivalent of a man saying,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: a woman should have big tits and be chained to
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: my radiator. Like, that's it. That's the life that she has.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: Every other aspect of her life is null and void.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what she's saying to men. Every aspect of
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: who men are is null and void. and then she
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: has a pro then she when men are like what
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: are you they're not even saying the things i'm saying
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: they're probably just confused as hell by what she's asking
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: them to do because men will look at that list
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: not see any costs and try to find what it
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: is that she's actually telling them to be and they'll
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: settle on rich and famous because that's an actual you
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: know that's a cost that's something you sacrifice for that's
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: something you can work towards And then they'll rightly say,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: not every man can be rich and famous, lady. Not
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: every man can virtue signal at the volume of Pedro Pascal.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: And that's the only cost Pedro Pascal's virtue signal has.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: is that he has an audience that he's worked for.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: He's had a position that he's worked for. So when
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: men look at that, they're like, well, where's the cost? Well,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: Pedro Pascal's cost is he's rich. He worked for that
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: and he's got an audience and he worked for that.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: So that must be the cost of virtue signaling. Therefore,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: you're asking me to become rich and famous like Pedro Pascal.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: And that doesn't make any fucking sense.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: Go away.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: No, no. It's not that. Because not every man could
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: be that. You don't think it's that?
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: Well, no, I don't think that men think that they
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: need to be rich and famous like Pedro Pascal. I
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: think she's making a wrong comparison. I think that when
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: you are famous, more people listen to you. And so
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: the men are probably saying, well, that guy's high status,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: so I'm not going to make a difference. And she's like,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: you're insecure. But what she's asking for is consensus. And
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: it's funny because, again, she has to appeal to the
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: thing that she claims doesn't exist, which is that men
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: would even bother to listen to what women have to
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: say Um, but she assumes that they do because that's
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: why she's shaming them. Why would shame, why would that
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: even be like a weapon in her quiver? If she,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: if she was so sure it wouldn't work. So instead
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: she's just wagging her finger and say, Oh, patriarchy is
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: why you, you know, you're not a high status man
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: that people listen to, or you're not comfortable with, you know,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: saying stuff regardless of what you, and what you believe
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter because you either agree with us or you're
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: a bad person. So, and it's assumed that you're a
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: bad person until you prove you're not by agreeing and
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: being very vocal. but i got a um another super
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: chow i should read it from dark kikimura for five
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: and he says what is the bond that you think
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: two gay men have given that those relationships famously had
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: the least abuse compared to straight people and lesbians relational web.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: Or operational They have coalitional bonds. Yeah. I think, uh,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: I think gay men are working off of coalitional bonds. Um,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: the thing is that coalitional are, is, is itself, um,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: found like it's founded on like, so the way it
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: goes is it's paternal, like way in the past, then
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: pair bond and then coalitional bond, I believe. And, um,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: so since pair bond is nested in coalitional, it can
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: sort of collapse down into that, I think. Um, so
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: I think it's a coalitional bond. as opposed to like, uh,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: and it's, it probably, it explains why gay men don't
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: require as much sexual exclusivity for the bond to work, uh,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: as a heterosexual do. And, um, apparently lesbians are quite
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: aggressive about that too. Um, so like I would say that, yeah,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: it's a coalitional bond. Um, and that probably explains why,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: you know, the, the, it's not gay if it's underway
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: with the Navy. Um, It's just probably an accident.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: Like a lottery.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: It accidentally collapses because of just some random factors. But anyway,
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: that's what I would say. All right, so let's read
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: a bit more, because I think she makes another point
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: that is relevant to what we're arguing over.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: All right. It literally makes no sense whatsoever, and I
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: even pointed out that this stuff was available to any man.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: The men that I admire and respect, regardless of wealth
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: or star status, are the ones who are being authentic, vulnerable, kind,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: and protective of those... with less societal power.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: Vulnerable but not insecure, guys.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: I know plenty in real life as well, and maybe
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you more about some of them in a
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: future essay. So this is like, again, you can tell
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: that she's looking for more people to read her stuff,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: which is why she said, you know, look forward to
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: my next release to read up on the few men
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: that I think that I know in real life that
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: live up or whatever to this thing, and it's part
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: of this network of people that are all writing each other,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: like writing blogs that each other are going to love
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: and agree with. And it's basically like a giant internet
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: circle jerk. But again, um, you don't really want men
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: to be authentic or vulnerable. Okay. Or kind. You don't
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: want those things. Not really. You want, you want them
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: to say they are those things. You want them to, um,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: signal that stuff, but you don't really want men to
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: be authentic because you don't like men when they're Yeah.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: I also linked the story at the bottom of the
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: essay about my wonderful husband. Oh, no. And all the
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: qualities that I love and admire about him. My man
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: is great. He is not, however, a movie or music star.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: He doesn't need to be in order to embody positive masculinity,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: and neither does any other man. God, I would avoid
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: this person forever. Okay.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: Her husband is a lawyer. So right there, a man
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: who performs for a living to an audience. I mean,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: it's not as high tier as a Pedro Pascal. And also,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: if you go to what she praises about her husband,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: it's a list of actions. Guys, I want you to
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: pay close attention to this. What she actually credits James with,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: that's her husband, does his own laundry, shares household chores.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: She mowed the lawn when younger, now they pay a service.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know what that's crediting him for, I guess
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: paying for the service. Cooks, drives, pays, so he pays,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: presumably for a significant amount of their lifestyle. Alternating, but it's, okay, whatever,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: that's some weird financial feminist crap they're doing. He read
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: How the Grinch Stole Christmas to their son so often
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: he memorized it. He raised a son with autism and
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: the son still lives with them. He had 20 plus
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: years in C-suites, high powered jobs, entire career. That's the
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: corporate lawyer thing. So guys worked with and and for
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: high powered women, friends at work with women. OK, whatever.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: Faced cancer this past year. So this is she's describing
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: a custodial man like he's describing a man who takes
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: care of his family. He probably virtue signals on her
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: cue because that's what men do. Probably the way he
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: slots it into his brain is this makes her happy.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: I'll do it. I don't understand it. But men also
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: don't understand why every single person you know, including your
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: dental assistant, needs a Christmas card. They just slot it in.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: It makes her happy. So let it go. So that's
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: probably the way he operationalizes this. But I want you
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: to look at her list of qualities. All of them
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: are actions, right? They are things, they are variable viable
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: things that you can do or not do. Okay. And
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: the biggest one I'm guessing is the 20 plus years
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: as a corporate lawyer. So just, you know, guys, just,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: just be a corporate lawyer or Pedro Pascal. Like you
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: can do it, right?
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: And then again, like, this guy has an audience. If
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: he's a lawyer, he has an audience. Generally, they have
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: to argue law with someone, and that would be their audience.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: So he still can virtue signal. He has a place
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: where he can virtue signal. So as long as you're, like,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: working in an office building, you can be a good
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: man because you can virtue signal to your office or something.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: This is like, and again, like I said, there is
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: no point her saying, well, men can just virtue signal without,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: without an audience. They can't, it's worthless. They could just
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: virtue signal to your dog. Well, okay. But that's not
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: really going to change anything, is it? Okay. Or that's
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: not really even going to be a signal because your
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: dog isn't receiving it. He's just enjoying you talking to him. Okay.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: Should we read a bit more or do the, do the, well.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: Lindsay stepped away for a moment. So I'm going to,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: I'm going to, uh, I'm going to read a little
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: bit more.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: Well, if we get it done, then we could just play.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess. Okay. All right. All right. I'll read
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: some more. I also linked another story at the bottom
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: about male sociologists and writers who working towards changing our
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: culture in positive ways. Pretending that positive masculinity isn't attainable
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: for any man who isn't a rich star. is just
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: utterly untrue and frankly absurd.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: So the guys in the psychology of men and masculinities
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: fields strangely mentioned clearly in this article or this blog. Yeah,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: they're changing the world for the positive.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: They're not doing.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, no, they're not. And I suspect now that they're... Well,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: first of all, they influenced the American Psychology Association to
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: treat men... As a burden, right? So the way that
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: they influenced it is, of course, they gave the strain literature,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: which is that masculinity is a harm to men in
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: the world around them. And the way that you get
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: men healthy is by getting men to renunciate their masculinity
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: and to recognize it has no positive qualities. And the
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: reason why it cannot have positive qualities, why these guys
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: can never mention a single positive thing that masculinity is,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: is because if they did mention a positive thing, then
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: masculinity would be something other than dominance over women. Yeah,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: you see that? It would have a component that wasn't evil.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: It would have a good thing about it. Then it
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: couldn't be evil. It couldn't be characterized as dominance over women.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: All right. So that's why they can't accept that. And
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: this is these are the people who are now in
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: charge of treating men, vulnerable men with mental health disorders.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: So what do you do? Like you take a guy
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: who's depressed. Right. He's like, I want to I want
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: to unalive myself. Doc, I want to I want to
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: throw myself from a bridge. And Doc says, have you
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: considered how your masculinity harms those around you? Thanks, Doc.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: I just needed that last bit of push to go
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: over the bridge. I just needed that. I was sitting
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: here thinking maybe I shouldn't jump off a bridge. But
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: now you've convinced me that my death will benefit others.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: This is what these people are doing. And that's what
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: she uses as an example of bringing something good in
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: the world. This... And the thing is that I actually
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: challenged a psychologist on this point. I said, OK, how
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: do you use the strain literature, the literature that masculinity
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: is a harm to men, but more importantly, a harm
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: to everyone else? You got some dude who's suicidal in
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: your in your room. How do you use this to
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: help him? I don't think I've received an answer. It's
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: been five years.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: No answer.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: Because when you put it like that, they realize how
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: absolutely morally bankrupt what they're doing is. So excuse me
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: if I think that the sociologists studying masculinity are full
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: of shit and should be fired and are not doing
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: anything good. Because I know exactly who she's talking about.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: Pretending that positive masculinity isn't attainable. This is not masculinity.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: Nowhere is this masculinity. Where did she say masculinity? What
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: about this is masculinity? She's not talking about anything that
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: men have that's unique to men. She's talking about men
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: virtue signaling a set of allyship. Smoke signals.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: Pre-approved talking points. That's how you know she doesn't really...
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: care because if you really cared you would like look
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: at the whole picture and make a determination on that
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: but she's not she has her little sociology like buzzwords
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: and then she's just it sounds good to her she
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: likes that because she's already primed to be biased in
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: this direction so she's just taking that and applying it
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: to basically her blog and every interaction, every, every encounter
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: with every man, every conversation, even her husband. And they,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: and that's how I know that she doesn't really like,
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: you can't believe in something if you don't understand it fully.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: So if you're going to talk about men's issues, you're
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: going to talk about, you know, the man box and
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. You should understand that you know, the
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: whole picture before you start using that term. But she doesn't.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: She just goes with because it's easy. It's already, like,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: widely accepted. It's the consensus. We're back at that. So, yeah.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: All right. So should we start or what? Allison, you
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: dropped out. Hold on. I got to move you back
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: into the chat, I think.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: Hold on.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know where you are.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: No, you're there.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: You're there. Okay. Your mouth was moving, but okay.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: Let's see how much more is there.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: One more paragraph. Okay.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, we've been going for an hour and a half,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: but okay. So it's a deflection and a way to
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: inadvertently showcase how bought into the patriarchal paragraph.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: You jumped the previous, didn't you?
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, oh yeah, you're right.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: Guys like that work in environments where it's probably slightly
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: more acceptable to be vulnerable or not in control all
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: the time. But as I noted in the story about
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: my husband, he is a lawyer and was a senior
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: executive for most of his career. And he was, and
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: is still able to embody pro social traits. How do
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: you define pro-social trait? You don't think a guy working
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: in a mine can be pro-social? How do you define that?
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: No, not unless he virtue signals.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: Right, not unless he has her approved talking points, which
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: don't have any cost. You just have to say them. Oh,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: this is like some kind of fricking loyalty test. All
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: you have to do is signal. So the guy working
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: in a mine is making sure that people have, you know,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: heating and they don't die in the winter. His work
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: is less important than if he virtue signals a bunch
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: of talking points that have no cost, right? So she
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: wants to take the mentality that looks for costs and
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: looks for costs to be born, right? And she wants
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: to turn it into a mentality that thinks virtue is
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: a matter of signaling costless items on a list. You know, personally,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: I think we should keep the cognitive modality that wants
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: to bear costs. Or maybe give it an opportunity to
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: relax from bearing those costs, but not to treat it
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: like it's immoral or lesser. You see what I'm saying?
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe we don't want to get rid of whatever it
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: is that's motivating men to be linemen and to clean
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: sewers and to work in mines. And I can tell you,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: it's not the money always. I've heard these guys, at
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: least one guy, well, probably more, they do it because
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: it needs to be done. And it makes sure that
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: other people survive. What is immoral? What is lesser about
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: the mentality that does a job because it allows other
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: people to have heating, to have lighting, to have food?
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: What is lesser about that mentality? Why does that mentality
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: have to prove itself to some posseted bitch like this
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: for it to have its own worth? You get what
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: I'm saying, Brian?
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: And why should it be forced to do these kinds
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: of subservient actions? Why should it be forced to see
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: its own virtues? Why should men be forced to see
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: their own virtues, the virtue of taking on costs so
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: that other people get heating and lighting and food, the
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: custodial virtues? Why should men have to see those as
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: lesser than the female relational web virtue signaling? Why do
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: they have to go through something like that? Just because
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: this woman, or the psychology of men in masculinity studies field,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: says that men like that are lesser, are less moral.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that the guy who's keeping
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: the lights on in my house is doing a lot
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: more for people than this woman. Maybe he should be
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: considered more moral. You know, the guy who fixes the sewers?
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: I think he's doing a hell of a lot more
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: for people than Michael Flood, or Michael Kimmel, or any
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: of the sociologists in men in masculinity's field. Like, the
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: guy who makes sure that people have food, I think
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: he's doing a lot more for the human race than
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: any of these virtue signalers. The entirety of everybody on medium.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: One farmer has more virtue than every single one of them.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: And they have the audacity, especially the men in the
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: psychology of men and masculinity's field, they have the audacity
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: to say that men's virtues, men's native virtues, well, they
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: don't even recognize it exists. They have the audacity to
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: say they study masculinity without even recognizing men's custodial nature
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: or what men say about their own virtues, about how
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: the virtues that men hold are about bearing cost for others.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: They have the audacity to say that they're studying masculinity
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: when they're not doing anything of the sort. They never
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: acknowledge that men have any right to define masculinity, and
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: they define masculinity in opposition to all the other data
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: about it in every other field. And then downstream of
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: their absolute bollocksery, you have this chick writing this Medium
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: article in which she is asserting that a man who
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: goes every day in negative 40 degree weather, like a
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: Canadian frickin' winter, to fix downed power lines has less
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: virtue than Pedro Pascal. Now, I know where I'm putting
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: my ledger, where I'm putting my chips there with the virtue.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: If I have to place virtue on any man in
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: this particular ledger, it's not on Pedro fucking Pascal. It's
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: on the lineman who is doing the work, who's freezing
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: his freaking fingers off to make sure people don't freeze
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: to death in the winter. Pedro Pascal is a pampered,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: worthless lapdog. And your husband, I hate to say it,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: is a corporate lawyer. So as far as I'm concerned,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: he's already suspect as being a fucking psychopath. But, you know,
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: at least he takes care of his family. You know
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: that men who are psychopaths do actually create a connection
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: to the people closest to them because masculinity is actually
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: that pervasive. Even sociopaths love their families. It's weird that way.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: They just freaking destroy everyone else.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: I don't So let me read some more of this.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: It's a deflection and a way to inadvertently showcase how
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: bought into the patriarchal dominance hierarchy that you actually are
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: if you balk at having to show up as a
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: kind of passionate, as a kind and passionate, as a
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: kind and passionate about equality and the plight of other people.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: You mean as kind and passionate, not as a kind
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: and passionate, whatever, or person, you can throw a person
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: in there, whatever. So again, they want you to essentially
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: she wants you to signal that's it this is all
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: about shaming into signaling.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: It's literally about regarding uh compassion or how you operate
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: in the world in terms of seeing this as legitimate
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: let's be honest like and not just seeing this as
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: legitimate but seeing this is the only legitimate way of
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: of being moral it's just virtue signaling oh we care
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: about space rocks What are you going to do for them? Nothing.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: But we care about them.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: And if you think that that's an absolutely absurd position
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: to take, to just kind of marinate in your compassion
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: for something you're not going to do anything for, then, yeah,
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: then you're a bad person. And you can't think that...
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: The way you should arrange your morality in the world
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: is to uphold an ethical standard that is external to
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: yourself and to actually sacrifice for those people you can
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: sacrifice for, which are your family, your friends. And maybe
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: if you are an actual activist trying to do something
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: legitimate for the people you care about, right, so that
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: you're taking action. So if you think that... The important
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: thing about compassion is to take action for what you
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: feel compassion for. Then you are excluded because you don't
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: think that just signaling it is important. Right. That's the.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: That you don't you think that signaling is meaningless without action,
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: then you are a bad person. Right.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: OK. And also you have to renunciate yourself as a man.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: You have to renunciate your focus on doing things in
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: order to see signaling things as more important. Because that's
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: the thing. This isn't just, okay, fine, we can feel
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: compassion for things that we don't do anything for. This
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: is seeing that as more important than other ways of
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: people that men actually view compassion. Seeing that as being insubordinate,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: or not insubordinate, but subordinate to signaling compassion. Actually, not
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: even subordinate. That would recognize that the way that men
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: move in the world could be moral. You can't even
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: recognize that. That there might be a unique approach that
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: men have towards the world that is a virtue. You
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: can't recognize that, because men can't have virtues. They can
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: only renunciate themselves as a virtue. And signal their allyship
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: as a virtue. Oh, well. Okay. Let's keep going.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: All right. When I say something like, most women don't
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: like the Andrew... Oh, Alison's thing moved. Hold on. I
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: got to move her back. Oh, where does she go?
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. There you go. All right. You're back.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: When I say something like most women don't like the
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: Andrew Tate's of the world, but they do adore the
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: Patriot Pedro Pascal's. It creates a tension between the guys
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: who gravitate to the old school norms of being a
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: man and guys who live as more well-rounded full human beings.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: And because some of them are so overly concerned with
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: where they rank in the artificial hierarchy, which is largely
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: tied to the old norms, it trips their trigger to
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: read about all these stars getting so much admiration. Not
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: for being stars, but for being awesome people. So... She
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: is basically saying, I have decided I'm going to morally
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: measure men against these two arbitrary standards, Andrew Tate and
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: Pedro Pascal. Like there's no other room for anything else
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: other than those two things. And it's weird that men
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: are annoyed that you're making that ridiculous comparison. Yes. Andrew
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: Tate is like, he's like a magic spell, dude. They
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: just invoke his name and it just creates reactions. How
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: do you all let this motherfucker's name have so much
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: power over you? It's wild. Oh, Lindsay's got a witch.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: She's a witch. Yeah, put her on the table so
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: you can see.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: So anyway, Allison, are you going to say anything about
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: that or should I keep going?
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: No, just keep going.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: All right. Sure, I could have written a story about
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: some of the guys I know in real life who
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: have these traits and are men that I admire, but
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: since you don't know them, You would be starting from
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: a place of no frame of reference. You'd have to
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: take my word for it, and I'd have to spend
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: three or four times as long describing them in order
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: for you to get the gist. With celebs, you can
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: simply Google stories about them and watch clips of them
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: embodying the things I discussed that I admire. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: What has Pedro Pascal done that embodied the things that
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: you have discussed and admired? Other than say shit. Say
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: shit like I want to be on the right side
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: of history. That's literally like the kind of stuff that
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: he's said on a camera. But what is he... done.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: What has he done? Yeah. He's done nothing.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: If you look at what she says here, you'd have
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: to take my word for it. So she can't just
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: describe men, I don't know, it's not really an action,
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: but holding these opinions. She has to describe men who
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: you can see holding these opinions. You notice that?
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: Yes. It reminds me.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: That these men be seen holding these opinions. Yeah. So,
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: if you're a man just holding these opinions, that isn't
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: good enough. You have to be seen holding these opinions.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm talking about. Like, it's not you talk
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: to your dog about these opinions. You have to have
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: an audience who sees you talk about these opinions. Who
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: sees you hold these opinions.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it reminds me of... I gotta say something biblical.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm gonna say it right. But... When, okay,
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: Matthew 6, 16, I think. It's Matthew something. Six something,
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: I think. He talked about how followers are supposed to
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: engage in prayer and fasting, but that they're supposed to
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: do those things privately and maintain their usual appearance so
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: that only God would see and reward the act of fasting.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: Because what the Pharisees would do is they would fast
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: and tell everybody they were doing it. They would virtue signal.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: They'd be like, oh, it's so hard. I got to
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: fast and I got to pray. And it's tough being
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: like so close to God. And that is basically like
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: a prideful, hypocritical sin to do. And that it's empty too,
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: because if you, if you're doing it for, because you
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: want other people to see you do it, then you're
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: not doing it right. You're not doing it for the
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: right reasons. You're doing it because you want people to
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: see you do it, not because you should be doing it.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: And the people who do it without anyone knowing, like
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: they do it in private, they're, they're being more authentic, right?
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: You could say it's for God, but the point is
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: that you don't do it because other people are, you know,
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: are watching you. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like doing good
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: when nobody is looking, basically. Yeah.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: And then this almost necessitates that these men do this
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: with an audience. Because, again, it's the signaling that makes
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: it moral or whatever, or allyship. A man can't feel
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: good about himself just sitting in a room or doing
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: anything else. He has to be signaling this stuff to someone.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: He has to be actively renunciating his masculinity, like the
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: dude at the beginning who said, like many men, I've
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: wasted decades of my life trying to perform the man
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: box model of manhood. And then also virtue signaling, like
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: many men, I too have raped and beat women in
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: order to uphold patriarchy. How come men don't say that?
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: Like these guys who signal this allyship, how come none
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: of them say that? Have you noticed that? Even though
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: that's like a pillar of feminist conjecture about men and patriarchy.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: Maybe you guys should do that. Maybe you guys should
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: be confessing to stuff like that. Otherwise, are you doing allyship?
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: But anyway, you know, you have to you have to
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: renounce yourself as a man. You have to have an
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: audience to do it or it doesn't count. You have
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: to virtue signal. And again, you need an audience or
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: it doesn't count because it's a signal. OK, so all
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: of this is a performance. And what's really ironic is
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: she says that men, you know, what did the beginning
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: she says that men have to perform. And she's basically
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: saying that, you know, men, you have to perform. patriarchy
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: makes men perform for the approval of other.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: Men, but that they should be performing for her instead.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That you pay you, Ben, you should all be
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: performing for her instead. And I just want to point
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: out what's on offer here. from this category. So this
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: political position believes that men should renunciate their masculinity, they
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: should perform allyship, they should see virtue in terms of
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: virtue signaling, not actually pursuing ethical conduct or sacrificing and
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: being custodial towards. So, for example, it is far more
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: important to virtue signal that you care about trans people
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: than to make sure that a city has electricity. It's
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: far more virtuous. Even though you might not actually do
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: anything for trans people at all ever, the fact that
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: you are simply expressing concern over their plight is far
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: more virtuous than a man who goes out in negative
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: 40 degree weather to prepare down power lines so that
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: the same trans people punch a whole bunch of other
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: people don't freeze to death in the winter. Right? So
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: one is far more virtuous than the other. You have
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: to recognize that. Of course, you don't have to do
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: it explicitly. The other type of virtue just never enters
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: the ledger.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: What you get from all this renunciation, from all this
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: recognition that men's virtues aren't virtues, even though they keep
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: the lights on, what you get is the opportunity, as
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: you have slotted yourself in the category of good men
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: and ally, you get access to a belief system that
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: is sterilizing itself. So you're not going to get a girlfriend,
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: you're not going to get a wife, you're not going
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: to get children, because leftist women don't do those things.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: But you'll get to feel good about yourself for the
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: brief moments where you can signal renunciation towards others. What
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: is on offer here for men if they do any
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: of this stuff? Right. And I don't even think that
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: she is a representation of a woman who selected a
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: man based on these factors, because when she describes her man,
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: she does not describe spent his life virtue signaling feminist allyship.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: She describes 20 plus years as a corporate lawyer, pays
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: the bills, helps out around the house. Right. So even
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: she gives me the doubts, the serious doubts that any
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: of this was that important in the man that she selected.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: I doubt that this really rose. So even the few
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: leftist women who do have children, when there are very
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: few and increasingly less over time, who even pair up. Right.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: The very few. Right. They're even on offer as wives
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: and any kind of partner. And have children. Even they
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: don't select based on the criteria that this woman wants
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: men to embody. I suspect. So what you are doing
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: by following her criteria is neutering yourself.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: Or what? What? So that you appeal more to a
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: group of women who don't want men? So you appeal
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: for a group of women who only want you to
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: neuter yourself. They're not going to do anything with you
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: after that. And I don't mean this like, oh, men
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: are entitled to women, but men are certainly entitled not
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: to do things that make them less attractive to women,
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: and all they gain is access to an ideology that
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: is sterilizing itself. Like, I mean, I don't think that
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: men are, you know, obviously like every sane human being,
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: I feel no one is entitled to the sexuality of
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: another human being. Women should probably take note of that
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: more than men at this point, but I'll put that
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: out there. But on the other hand, I also agree
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: that men have the right to decide where they invest
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: their beliefs, where they invest their effort. And I would
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: suggest that doing anything that this woman says is not
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: going to get you anything. it's not gonna get you
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: anything i mean if the leftist women will be like
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: oh if you do this you'll you'll have access to
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: the fields and fields of leftist women well i would
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: suggest that that's just a smoking crater of nothing it's
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: it's like yeah you're gonna do this you're not even
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: gonna be attractive to leftist women leftist women yeah i
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: think the i think um what you can take from
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: this woman is that the way that you become attractive
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: to her is to become a corporate lawyer who probably
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: makes a quarter of a million, if not half a
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: million a year. I think that's probably a much surer
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: way to become attractive to the woman who's writing this
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: article than any of this crap that she's saying. And
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: she says that her husband does the corporate signaling thing,
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: which no doubt he does, because if he's gotten anywhere
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: in his life, he's learned to toe the line and
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: signal the corporate bullshit. But that doesn't make him a
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: good man, in my opinion. If I assume that there's nothing,
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: no shenanigans going on with this relationship, what makes him
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: a good man is he showed up for his wife
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: and kid. Right? That's it. None of this bullshit that
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: she's talking about. Corporate signaling does not make you a
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: good man. And if you renunciate what does make you
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: a good man in order to signal in corporate ease
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: about whatever... category where we're uh we're being slotted into
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: today whatever spreadsheet column we're in right if you do
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: do that and you give up your masculinity you're not
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: going to get anything from it i don't even think
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: men can do that like i think most men look
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: at this what this woman is asking and they just
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: don't understand it it just bounces off like a rubber
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: ball on a brick wall it's just like it's so
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: confusing and it's and even more they recognize exactly what
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: she's saying I mean, they don't understand what she's asking,
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: but they do understand what she's saying. She's saying, be
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: a wealthy man and have an audience to virtue signal towards.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: That's what she's saying.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: And I will approve of you. I will admire you.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: Or alternatively, be a corporate lawyer who pays my bills.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: Then I'll admire you. Well, lady, I think that just
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: being a wealthy actor... is the real criteria there. And
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: being a corporate lawyer is the other criteria there. And
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: all of the other bullshit you're saying that you need
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: to signal, I don't think that's why you would choose
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: a man. And I don't think that's why you admire men. Okay,
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: let's keep going.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, I wanted to read the quote. I
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: got the quote that I was trying to mention. This
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: is how old this wisdom goes, so But if ye
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: your trespasses. Basically, if you're going to be virtuous, you
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: do virtue when people are not looking. That's when you're
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: really doing it. Otherwise, everything is all just a performance.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's what she's saying. She wants this performance.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is that she may say she
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: wants this performance, but she only wants it in a
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: certain type of man.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you give up, like, do you honestly
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: think that her husband became a corporate lawyer without some
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: kind of competitive impulse or some kind of aggressive competitive impulse? No. Like,
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: this is like one of the most aggressive competitive fields. Correct.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: And if he didn't have that, he probably would have
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: never become her husband. Let's be honest. So don't give
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: up your masculinity. Don't listen to these women when they say,
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 2: Redentiate your manhood and become an ally. Consider what's on offer.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: The leftists aren't even pairing up or breeding. The I
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: hate men political category, they aren't going to like you. Ever.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: They're going to enjoy watching you eat your own shit
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: because they hate you. but they're never going to like you.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: They're never going to give you a pat on the head.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: I've seen this from men on Twitter, like feminist men
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: who are like, ah, well, I agree. And then the
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: feminists just descend upon them and tear them apart for
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: having the audacity of thinking that his opinion has any value.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: It's like, you know what? Wash your hands of it.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: It is a relation. Feminism is a female relational web
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: that's eating itself to death. It's a tar pit dragging
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: people into hell. And I don't mean like the literal
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: or tell. I mean the metaphorical mental. Sure. Okay. Let's
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: do another paragraph.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's a long article. With celebs, you already read
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: that part, right? You don't have to take my word
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: for it that they are committed to standing against violence
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: or that they treat women as people. You can read
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: about it as well as see and judge for yourself.
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: And anyone trying to hold that against me... Well, apparently
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: men who don't announce that they don't do it, don't
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: do it.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: If you're a man and you don't announce that you
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: are against violence against women, then you are obviously for
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: violence against women because you didn't say you were against it.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: But if you do say you're against violence towards women,
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: even if you are violent towards women, it's okay because
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: you said you're against it. It makes you a good person.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: And also you renounce other men and you say that
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: masculinity is dominance and violence against women. You can't forget
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: that part.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: Because that's the payload. Okay, let's keep going.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 3: I got a.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: Rumble rant from Roboto for a dollar and he says,
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: where might these fields of leftist women exist? Second, do
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: they have shops and diners? Go to any city, dude.
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. But my point is that these individuals, the
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: left is not an ideology that encourages any kind of
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: relationship forming. So if a man wants to have a relationship,
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: he probably should avoid anything to do with leftist ideology.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: Like anything. And honestly, I don't even think it cuts
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: down on the number of women that will be attracted
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: to you. I don't think these women are functional for
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: pair bonds. So you may be losing out on one
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: night stands. And if you want one night stands, like
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: just virtue signal this crap, get in, get out, surgical strike,
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: you know, that's fine. I'm not going to judge you
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: for that. But if you want an actual relationship, I
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: would suggest not signaling anything. the political position that is
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: dying on that score. You know what I'm saying? Like
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: the left, it doesn't like the left's political position is
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 2: toxic and destructive towards pair bonding. And of course it is,
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: because it's basically renunciation of masculinity, and if you want
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: a man as a woman, you are erasing yourself, basically.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: So you're, like, devalidating yourself. So it's incredibly destructive to
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: pair bonding, the entire corpus of beliefs. And I'm not
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: talking about, like, what was once the left, but whatever
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 2: it is now, whenever the feminist nation attacked, it became
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 2: something else. Like, whenever... The left stopped having children is
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: sort of when it got colonized by all of this stuff.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 2: And now if you are going to virtue signal any
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: of it, you are probably exempting yourself from having a
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: relationship with a woman. That's that's what I'm getting here.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: Like I said, you can virtue signal this stuff. If
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: you feel it'll get you closer to cracking like these
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: these women, but you're not going to end up in
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: a relationship with them. They're only good friends. And even
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: they'll say themselves, you know, being in a relationship is oppression.
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: So they don't even want one. But they'll still do
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: one night stands. But if you want to have a relationship,
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: I would suggest avoid all of this. Doesn't mean you
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: have to be conservative because they got their own problems.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: But just don't do anything this woman says at all, ever.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if I need to tell men this,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: but I'm saying that there's nothing on offer.
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I get you. All right, so I got, I mean,
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: there's still a little ways to go. Should I power
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: through this or what? Because it's been like, we're getting
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: to three hours now. Okay. So anyone trying to hold
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: that against me because you're too bought into the patriarchal
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: hierarchy is exhibiting their issues, not mine. I was frankly
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: quite surprised to hear from several men who were somewhere
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: between annoyed and outraged that I've written an entire essay
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: about terrific men and why I think they are great
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: who just happen to be famous. A lot of other
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: saner guys chimed in with suggestions of more terrific men
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: they wanted to have added to the list. And I
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: was happy to hear from them and to do just that.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know for sure. What?
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: Look at all of the stuff that these like these
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 2: people on the left. And again, I'm not on the right.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: I don't advocate for the right. But unfortunately, the left
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: is basically the I hate men party. So there you go.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: Look at what all of these individuals who are part
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: of the left are doing instead of getting into relationships.
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: They're signaling their enunciation of their masculinity and the vindication
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: of the feminine and allyship.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's keep going.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: All right. I don't know for sure exactly what the
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: naysayer's problem is, but I'm pretty certain that it has
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: to do with insecurity and way too much time trying
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: to get a good rank in the artificial masculine hierarchy,
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: which is entirely made up and says nothing whatsoever about
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: actual merit or worthiness. I think they'd be a lot
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: happier if they try to break more out of the
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: man box and just enjoy their authentic lives. As I
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: noted in the original... Yeah, they want.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: She doesn't want men to participate in their own hierarchy.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: She wants them to participate in her hierarchy. As I
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: noted in the original piece in describing these awesome men... overwhelmingly,
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: these guys don't need to dominate others or feel better
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: at someone else's expense. They're just doing their thing, living
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: their lives, and trying to not be an asshole. To
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: be honest, it's not a very high bar, but I
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: would still like to acknowledge at least some of these
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: men because representation does matter, and these guys are great.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: Sue me for admiring cool and interesting men who I
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: think bring a lot of positive things to the world.
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: If that makes you upset, perhaps you need to rethink
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: your worldview. Sweaty. That means a sweetie at the end.
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: That's the article. I finished it.
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: Okay. What the hell? Overwhelmingly, these guys don't need to
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 2: dominate others. You mean like every man in existence except
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: for a minority who probably is matched with an equally
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: dominating minority of women? Right? Yeah. Men don't need to
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: dominate others because they don't have a dominance hierarchy. They
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: have a competence hierarchy. And honestly, everything you're talking about
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 2: to a man sounds like incompetence. Like, doesn't it? Yeah.
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to virtue signal instead of doing anything for anybody.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: So you're incompetent.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: Ah, so she's, okay. So this woman who wrote this
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: is a social scientist dispelling erroneous cultural narratives with research-driven stories.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: So she is a product of the, I don't know
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: what you call it, the consensus cult? But, yeah, that's
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: what it is. Yeah.
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, man. Yeah. And the other thing is that these
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: men bring something positive to the world. Okay, so men
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: don't bring, like, Pedro Pascal doesn't bring positive things like movies. Like,
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, I called him a lapdog, but, you know,
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: he does do movies. People like them, right? So that's
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 2: not a positive thing that he brings to the world.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: It's just signaling his allyship and renunciating masculinity. That's all
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: the positive he brings to the world, right? And other
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: men don't bring positive to the world. Like men who
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: keep the lights on, they don't bring the positive to
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: the world? No. No, just signaling allyship.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: Just random ass theater kid actors. They're the ones that
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: bring positive light to the world. Didn't you know that, Allison?
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: Because that's what women notice. They don't notice the guy,
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: you know, the guy's bringing us, I don't know, food, electricity, water,
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: clean fucking, you know, streets. I don't know. Like all
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: this stuff. All of the infrastructure is completely ignored. Because
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: it's just there. It's in the back. So there's no...
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: Nobody thinks about it. You know?
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got an analysis I can read. But we
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: could do it after a level.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: Alright, let's do a level.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: No, no. Finish your thought, though. I'm sorry.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: No, no. It's okay. I was just saying... Yeah, I
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: see your feet. People like Pedro Pascal can only.
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: Can only thrive in a world where all the other
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: needs are met, all of our other needs, right? Like,
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: we don't have the luxury of movie stars in the
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: third world because people are just trying to survive. So
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: now that we do have it, everyone just wants to
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: listen to them. They're just not important, guys. That's all
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: I'm saying. They're just not that important.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't actually want to sign off on a
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: world where Pedro Pascal virtue signaling the latest corporate spreadsheet
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: items is somehow more virtuous than a guy who's busting
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: his balls to keep people's lives on.
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: I bought this for myself.
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: That's not the world I want to live in. I
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: think that we should probably rank everybody, every man who's
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: keeping the lights on, keeping people fed, keeping their houses warm,
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: keeping the sewers working. Every man who's in transport, in warehousing,
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: who's a mechanic.
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: Every guy who drives a truck, a forklift, operates heavy machinery.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Like every single... Yeah, every man.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: Every man who's a welder in a dockyard.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm going to go charging the drone.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: All of these men should be ranked higher in virtue
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: than Pedro Pascal with his list of corporate spreadsheet talking points. Yeah.
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 2: And I don't want to sign off in a world
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: where that isn't true.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right?
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: And I'm pretty sure her corporate lawyer husband probably fucked
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: a lot more lives than electrician.
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: Probably.
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: The guys who virtue signal the hardest have the worst
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: graveyards in their backyard. I'm going to put that out there.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: And again, men who get things done, that is a virtue.
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: And what she's saying is that they can't be recognized
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: as virtuous for having gotten things done, for doing the thing.
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: If they are not signaling the thing and that their
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: mentality focused on doing the thing is lesser than a
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: mentality focused on signaling, I don't know, on a feeling
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: about the thing. I'm not signing off on that. I'm
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 2: going to, I'm going to actually do a, all.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to do like an overview of the
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: specimens that we just looked at.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 1: I got it all set on there. Okay.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. What, what, what emote did you give me?
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: Like anger the typing the typing furious typing okay on
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: the laptop yeah.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: All right so oh man i got no this is
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: uh ellen bue ellen bue uh i wrote about admirable
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: men and some guys objected uh this is a social
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 2: scientist dispelling erroneous cultural narratives with research different stories uh
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: absolutely none of that is true Okay, so it's a
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: rebuttal to men who objected to a prior essay listing
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: famous men, Pedro Pascal et al., as models of positive masculinity.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 2: And incidentally, what she means by a model of positive
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: masculinity is you agree that masculinity is a harmful thing,
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 2: that it harms men, you as a man, and society
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: in general, and that it is also about dominance. So
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: you perform renunciation of masculinity in recognition that it's harmful.
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 2: So positive masculinity is actually disavowal that there is anything
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: positive about masculinity. And also performing allyship. So you say
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: men are responsible for the subjugation of people, these categories
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: of people, and I am going to put on the
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: record that I disagree with the fact that men are
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: responsible for the subjugation of these categories of people. And
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: as an allied man, I am against that. It requires several...
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: You have to agree with several things. One, you have
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: to agree that masculinity is about dominance, that masculinity primarily
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: harms others and the man itself. And then you also
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: have to agree the only positive thing about masculinity is
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: renouncing masculinity. That's how you do it. And this is
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: all supposedly research-driven. It isn't, by the way. If it
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: was research-driven, the researchers would recognize that... men don't agree
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: with masculinity being about dominating others but no matter how
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: many times men tell these researchers that they insist on
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: defining masculinity as dominance of others because it has nothing
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: to do with men what men hold as values or
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: virtues it only has to do with feminist conjecture about
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 2: so they're never going to move that no matter how
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 2: many times men reject Do you believe that power over
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: women is masculinity, no matter how many times men reject it?
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: They are going to continue to hold that because it's
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 2: not about what men actually believe. It's about what feminists
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: say men believe, like feminists like this woman, who also
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 2: does not care what men think or do or how
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: they conceptualize virtue. She doesn't care at all. There's a
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: complete lack of curiosity here. So men objected to this,
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 2: and the recorded complaint in her paraphrase was, don't hold
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: up stars for me as role models because I'm never
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: going to be that rich or famous. One would assume
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: that men higher up in the patriarchal hierarchy would not
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: be role models, but apparently they are. You know, because
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: Pedro Pascal has more patriarchy points than the average man.
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: Because he's rich and famous. So he's got more power
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: in the patriarchal hierarchy. Isn't that how it works? All right.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: So what she asks for, the list, verbatim. Men being
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: an ally and a supporter to LGBTQ plus folks. Supporting
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: organizations that are trying to curb violence. Standing up like
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: the police, for example. Standing up for the importance of
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: diversity in the arts and media. Standing against domestic violence,
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: like domestic violence against men. authentic, vulnerable, kind, and protective
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: of those with less social power, automatically agrees with how
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: she defines social power. Her heuristic for defining who has
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: and does not have social power. So you can't disagree
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: on that. You can't be like, actually, no, I think
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 2: that men don't have the social power that you ascribe
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: to them. You have to agree that patriarchy is the thing,
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: even though it's never been proven. It's never even been
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: framed in a way that could be proven. These guys
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: don't need to dominate others or feel... Okay, right there.
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: These guys don't need to dominate others. You mean men.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: Men don't feel the need to dominate. Like it's never
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: been proven that men feel the need to dominate others
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: or that dominating others is an aspect of masculine norms.
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: How many times do these people have to do a
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 2: survey and men are like, no, we don't want to
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: dominate others. That is not a masculine norm before these
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: researchers finally agree that that is not a masculine norm.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 2: So what is it she's actually asking? So let's just
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: zero in on that. These guys don't need to dominate others.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: And they virtue single about the fact that they don't
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 2: need to dominate others. Okay, so let's just imagine this dude.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 2: He goes up on the podium and he says, hey,
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: apropos of nothing, I don't feel the need to dominate others. Right? Yeah.
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: The fact that any guy, what they're asking men to
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 2: do is stand up and say that something that is
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: the baseline attitude of the average man across the globe
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: is noteworthy. That's what they're asking for. They're demanding, actually.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: They're demanding that men stand up and say, well, I don't.
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: Want to dominate people.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 2: And that's unique. Most men do. Well, that's wrong. Right
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 2: off the bat, that's renunciating. Other men. So it's not
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: just that this guy is standing up and saying, hey,
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 2: I'm a good man, I believe the good things. He's
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: also standing up and saying, unlike other men, I'm a
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: good man and I believe the good things. And virtue
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: is really about signaling, not about doing. Doing his man stuff. Alright, so... Okay, so...
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: Doesn't want to dominate others or feel better at someone's expense.
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 2: They're just doing their thing, living their lives, and trying
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: not to be an asshole. So, like, 99% of men.
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 2: Literally 99% of men. No item names a target, a cost,
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: an action, or a verifiable outcome. The unit is stance.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 2: The unit is... signaling where you are in the relational web,
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: not operation. So virtue is signaling where you are in
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 2: the relational web. It's never something you do or cost
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 2: you bear. Modality. So this is getting into my cognitive
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: modality work. So if you want to know what that means,
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 2: men have an operative modality, which is about doing things
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: in the world, about bringing things down to what can
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: be done, what actions to take to affect what outcomes.
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: And women have a relational modality, which is about where
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 2: you exist in the relational web. And it takes data
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 2: and it creates a topographical map of interrelationships between people.
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 2: The list that she's saying is relational modality worked throughout.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: Every item is a position in a web verified by
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 2: an audience. The objector's complaint, the men's complaint, as reported,
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: is operative. What am I supposed to do? I can't
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 2: be that. She reads it as rank anxiety because of
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: course she does. The relational web reads everything in terms
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 2: of rank. And then she ascribes it to rank anxiety
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: within the patriarchal relational web, which is something that feminists
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 2: theorize or conjecture exists. It doesn't exist. I don't even
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 2: think that men really view their relationships in the way
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 2: that women do in terms of a relational web. She
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: reads it as rank anxiety, which is what it would
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 2: be if it was a woman, right? This is a
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: channel mismatch, not a disagreement about values. She issues a
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: relational web specification, receives an operative, what is the load-bearing
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 2: action query, then diagnoses the query as a character defect.
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 2: If you want to learn more about what I'm talking about,
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 2: go to badgernation.online.com. I put out material on relational versus
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 2: operational thinking. An operative reader scans the spec for a
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 2: target action cost and completion condition, finds none of the four,
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: and correctly reports that nothing has been asked. The spec
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 2: is not blank. It is a blank to an operative
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 2: reader specifically. She encounters the request for an operative spec
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 2: and classifies it as a defect of the requester. Pretty pathetic. Insecure.
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 2: A deflection. Saner guys for those who agreed. There's no
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 2: point in the essay where the possibility they wanted a
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 2: specification is entertained. One cognitive channel is treated as a symptom.
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 2: So she's basically treating the native way that operative thinkers
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 2: engage with the world and engage with lists like this
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 2: as a disease or a symptom of a disease. On
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 2: her own goal item terms, her stated aim is to
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 2: get men to build an egalitarian culture. And by the way,
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 2: The types of intelligence that are native to operative modality
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 2: are not lauded. Right. OK, mathematics, maybe, but much more
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 2: verbal intelligence. And her husband is somebody who would be
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 2: high on the verbal intelligence because he's a lawyer. Yeah.
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 2: So no doubt she actually, you know, thinks he's she
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 2: thinks he is pro social because he's a lawyer and
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 2: he is verbal. He's highly fluent verbally. And that's how
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 2: she sees pro-socialness. This is the great irony of all...
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 2: I just killed myself. I just died. Sorry, I was
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 2: standing on the cart.
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: I'll bring you... It's okay, let's go. Okay, it doesn't matter.
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: You're dead. You're coming with us anyway. Weekend at Bernie's. Okay,
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 2: so what she's doing is because her lawyer husband is
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 2: probably more verbal, she thinks he's more pro-social. Okay.
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 2: Can you freaking believe it? They're taking the way people
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 2: think about the world and the types of intelligence people have,
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 2: and they're ranking them in terms of which is more
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 2: or less human. And of course, the spatial mechanical intelligence
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 2: is way down on the bottom where it usually is.
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 2: And men who see the world in terms of building things,
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 2: fixing things, maintaining things, are of course barely human in her,
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 2: not even human, they are inhuman unless they actually engage
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: with the verbal channel, which is, in many cases, their
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 2: least developed and least fluent channel. Do you see how
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 2: this creates a hierarchy of people? Yeah. And then they
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: call that morality. Yeah. The only people who are really
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 2: moral or really human are the verbal ones who are
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 2: always on the top of the freaking hierarchy. Who do
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 2: you think was the freaking courtiers in Louis XIV? Who
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 2: do you think are the ones who are closest to
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 2: the freaking Fed money nozzle? Who do you think are
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 2: the ones who are doing all the financialization crap? They're
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 2: always the verbally fluent layer that moves in terms of
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 2: social positioning. They're the guys who are always... in positions
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: of power, or close to positions of power, because they
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 2: know how to toady. So, of course she puts those
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: men on top. Of course they're on the top of
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: the hierarchy. And then below them are the guys who
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 2: are like Oppenheimer, mathematicians, or Dr. House, you know, those
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: guys with an intelligence that she can sort of recognize.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 2: And of course, on the bottom, you know, the proles,
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 2: the proles, the incels... The ones who are just, you know,
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 2: dragging troglodytes are the guys with spatial mechanical intelligence that
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 2: keep her damn lights on. Of course they're on the bottom.
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: And of course it's entirely moral to create a freaking
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 2: hierarchy like this.
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 2: It's actually despicable. But anyway. So one cognitive channel is
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 2: treated like a symptom. On her own goal terms, her
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 2: stated aim is to get men to build an egalitarian culture. No,
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: I think it's ranking men. Building is operative. She has
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 2: dismissed the channel that does the building and issued a
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 2: spec only the other channel can read. So she wants
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 2: men to build an egalitarian culture. And she starts by
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 2: ranking men in order of humanity. With men who are
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 2: fluent in virtue signaling on top and men who actually
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 2: keep her lights on on bottom.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, we're off to a great frickin' start with this woman. Okay,
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 2: so the tier first. Okay, next one. Moral circle. So
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 2: if you guys don't know, moral circle is the analysis
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 2: I did based on the cyber feminism work. I figured
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 2: out that what the moral circle is, you are supposed
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 2: to virtue signal for the most abstract possible categories of being.
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 2: So you care deeply about the plight of the Martian rocks.
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 2: And why is it the most abstract category of being?
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 2: Because Martian rocks have no claim on you they don't
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 2: recognize any claim on you you don't have to do
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 2: anything for them they're completely abstract completely unnecessary to actually
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: do anything so they're the maximal virtue signaling object absolutely
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 2: nothing you can conceivably do for them but if you
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 2: don't virtue signal then you're out of the relational web
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 2: patooey you're a bad person So you are forced to
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 2: virtue signal for something that has absolutely no operative content.
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 2: What does that do? It filters out anybody who does
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: not natively understand the concept of virtue signaling. It filters
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 2: out anybody who thinks, okay, if I'm going to express
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 2: compassion for something, I should damn well have to do something.
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 2: It should result in a cost or an action that
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 2: is taken. So that kind of cognitive modality is filtered
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 2: right out from that. or it's forced to do something
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 2: that's against its own nature, which is to say, yes,
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 2: me just expressing compassion for the Martian rocks makes me
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 2: a better person than anybody else. That's what they're asking
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 2: you to agree with. Yeah. Like, really? Like, can you
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 2: agree with that, Martian? Like, okay, can you agree with that, Brian? No,
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 2: let's not even make it Martian rocks. I am very
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 2: concerned about the plight of the Alpha Centauri Oort Cloud.
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 2: Or hell, let's just use our Oort Cloud. The Oort Cloud, right? Brian,
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 2: I want you to come together with me and express
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 2: deep concern for the Oort Cloud. We need to do that.
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 2: And if you don't do that, you're a bad person.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: If you can't dig deep inside yourself and shed a
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 2: tear for the Oort Cloud, if you can't bring up
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 2: the emotion of suffering over the true plight of the
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 2: Oort Cloud, you are a terrible human being. And it
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter that the Oort Cloud is like many, many, many,
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 2: many miles away from us. We owe the Oort Cloud.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: Nothing.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: The Oort Cloud will never come to Earth and say, hey,
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 2: you didn't care about me enough. So none of this
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 2: has any actual relevance to anything in the world. Right?
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 2: We don't have to sacrifice anything. But we have to
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 2: recognize that those people who do not, do not shed
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 2: a tear for the Oort Cloud, they are freaking... They
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 2: are freaking monsters who deserve nothing. They don't deserve any
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 2: human consideration. They are just truly the worst. They're the unkind,
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 2: the mean-spirited, the men. They're the men. That's the men.
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 2: When I say men, you know I mean the really bad,
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 2: bad people when I say men. They don't express deep
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: concern for the Orc Cloud. So you know that everybody
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 2: who doesn't do that is a bad person. So not
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 2: only do we have to express concern for the orc cloud,
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 2: we have to recognize that everyone who doesn't do it
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: is a bad person. And you've basically lost like 99%
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 2: of people, but that's the point. By engaging in the
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 2: moral circle analysis, by creating the most abstracted and ridiculous
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 2: thing to express compassion for, and then saying that if
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 2: you don't do it, if you're a person who's like, well, wait, wait,
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 2: the orc cloud is, what does the orc cloud need
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 2: from us? If you're that kind of person, which is
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 2: most people at this point, most people don't even know
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 2: what the Oort Cloud is, which is ignorance, right? And
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 2: there's no excuse for that. If you don't recognize that
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 2: this is the dividing line between humans and the subhuman
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 2: who doesn't deserve to live, then you are a subhuman
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 2: who doesn't deserve to live. So not only do we
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 2: express concern for the Oort Cloud, we use expressing concern
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 2: for the Oort Cloud to divide humanity into those who
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 2: deserve to live and those who deserve to be thrown
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 2: into pits with spikes. That is the moral circle. It
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: is not about expressing compassion. It is about creating the
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 2: largest category of potential targets for hatred you possibly can.
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: That's what she's doing. And if guys are particularly sensitive
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 2: to that, which, you know, I've noticed operative thinkers like you, Brian,
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 2: and my husband, Jonathan, you pick up things faster than
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 2: I do. Because I have to do it through careful analysis,
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 2: whereas you guys pick it up intuitively. If you're an
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 2: operative thinker that is listening to this or listen to
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 2: her lay out her argument and you're picking up on, hey, wait,
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 2: what happens to the people who don't agree? Yeah, you're
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: also in the category of subhuman, even though you've correctly
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 2: picked up that this is a genocidal narrative.
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 2: And yeah, again, moral circle is ultimately taken to the
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 2: furthest extreme, genocidal. And these women are parading it around,
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 2: like they're parading this horrific weapon around, and they're pointing
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 2: it at men and saying, you know, kiss the nuke,
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 2: kiss the fat boy, prostrate yourself before it, or you're
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 2: a bad person. And it's the weirdest thing to see.
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 2: But anyway, let's get back to this. That's what moral
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: circle analysis is. It's basically using the most rarefied and
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 2: ridiculous expressing... Give... Prostrate yourself before this object of compassion.
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 2: And if you don't agree that expressing compassion is the
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 2: dividing line between who deserves to live and who doesn't,
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 2: or who deserves to be recognized as human and who doesn't,
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 2: then you are subhuman.
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: That's the moral circle. Anyway, so... This list that she
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 2: lists matches the outer ring profile. Objects selected for inaccessibility.
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 2: Diversity in arts and media. Organizations that are trying to
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 2: curb violence. And also, when she means diversity in arts
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 2: and media, it means removing an entire category of character,
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 2: that is men, from arts and media. Organizations that are
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 2: trying to curb violence. Like, no individual men can act
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 2: on these.
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 1: You mean like cops?
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I keep saying, yeah. No individual man
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 2: can act on these. There is no specific target that
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: could demand a specific response. I guess you could donate
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 2: to organizations that are trying to curb violence, but if
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 2: you don't virtue signal about it, then you're not really
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 2: doing it. Zero behavioral output specified. Nothing in the list
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 2: can fail. There is no outcome against which performance could
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 2: be checked. Verification by display, not by result. Stated method.
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 2: Google them, watch clips, see and judge for yourself. The
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 2: criterion is visibility of concern, not effect. Exemplar is at
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 2: maximum distance. Celebrities, unreachable, unaccountable, and by her own reasoning
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 2: chosen because they are legible to strangers. The reliable output
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 2: of the system is hostility towards non-performers. The essay's actual
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 2: behavioral product is the diagnosis of the objectors. So this
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 2: is where we get to the payload of the essay.
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 2: You get to hate somebody. In her case, you get
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 2: to hate the men who object to her. Just be
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 2: Pedro Pascal and virtue signal your allyship. sacrifice care to
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: men who may actually be doing all kinds of custodial
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 2: things taking all kinds of costs to deliver actual services
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 2: to people being told that they're not a real person
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 2: they're not a real virtuous person i mean they probably
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 2: don't even think of the terms of virtue but it
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 2: is an ethic an ethic a work ethic an ethic
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: of care and they're being told that this pampered hollywood
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 2: lapdog is a better man than them no no sorry
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 2: a better person than them because he signals allyship, because
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 2: what they do is no virtue, no ethic, nothing of
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 2: benefit at all, even though they're keeping the lights on.
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 2: Sacrifice care requires a real target and a real cost
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 2: and a legible outcome. Her list supplies none of the three.
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 2: The display structure. She quotes Kimmel in the effect that
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 2: men are watched and judged by other men, names this
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 2: as pathology, and then specifies a replacement performance and verification
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: method for it. The structure is held constant, only the
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 2: audience and the criteria change. She never claims to be
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 2: removing the evaluative structure. She uses the language of escape,
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 2: break out of the man box, enjoy their authentic lives,
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 2: while the content is a new box. A new spec.
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 2: It's a new box. A new set of expectations. What's
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 2: being assessed is not conduct. Conduct has a completion state
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 2: and accumulates acts over time, costly witnessed with a track
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 2: record third parties can check. What she specifies is assessed
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 2: from current state display. Watch clips, read stories, judge for yourself.
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 2: The correct term is reputation or legibility. She uses character vocabulary, authentic,
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: secure it in yourself, not cosplaying, for something assessed by proxy,
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 2: which severs it from the accumulation, which would make it earnable.
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 2: So basically she's using character vocabulary to describe a performance.
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 2: which doesn't necessarily say anything about a person. Well, no,
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 2: it says nothing about a person's internal character. I think
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 2: that's ultimately the thing here. She is expecting people not
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 2: only to express compassion for these things, but to say
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 2: expressing compassion for these things describes something meaningful about the
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 2: character of the people expressing compassion. And it doesn't. Compassion
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: is costless, and virtue signaling is costless. Display is deniable.
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 2: If character is inferred from stance, any stance can be
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 2: re-read as performance, insincerity, or cover. No move forecloses on
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 2: an adverse reading. In the essay, the men who agreed
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 2: are saner and the men who objected are diagnosed. Agreement
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 2: and objection both resolve into a sanity verdict. So even
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 2: if you agree, it's never permanent. You have to constantly
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 2: be in a state of signaling your agreement, signaling your
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 2: abdication of your masculinity or your renunciation of your masculinity.
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 2: The evaluator changes the position does not. Her diagnosis is
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 2: that men are damaged by being ranked by other men.
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 2: She then performs a ranking. Most men don't like the
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 2: Andrew Tates of the world, but they do adore the
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 2: Pedro Pascals. Unsourced and a status claim. The complaint is
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 2: about the judges, not the judging. So she's just basically saying, men,
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 2: don't be, be free from being judged by other men.
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 2: Be judged by me. In a way that's completely incompatible
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 2: with how you see yourself in the world. and is
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 2: far harsher. And if you don't actually live up to it,
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 2: and by live up to it, I mean constantly virtue
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: signal in every conceivable capacity in a way that I
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 2: agree with, then you are not a human. You're not
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 2: just incompetent, which is what you would be in the
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 2: male hierarchy. You're not even human, which is what you
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 2: are in this relational web hierarchy. The first comparison to
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 2: maintenance state load. Okay, maybe I shouldn't read that. Her
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 2: ask keeps the structure, external standard, no discharge, and removes
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 2: the operative channel. It is the unanswerable question without the
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 2: thing that makes it addressable. Okay, so the load is operative.
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 2: The question has no verdict, but the work is completely specified.
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 2: So when they talk about... Patriarchy as putting a load
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 2: on men or the custodial disposition is putting a load
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 2: on men. What they mean is or what what is
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 2: actually happening is like think about the country music song
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 2: where a man is. He describes all of the things
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 2: he's done throughout his life for his family. So he's
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 2: provided for his family. He's protected them. He's taken care
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 2: of them. He's built a house for them. He's done
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 2: his job for them. He's done his duty for them.
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 2: And in the end, he says, I don't know if
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 2: it was enough. I don't know if it was ever enough.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 2: It's this continuous provision. And it is continuous. And it's
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 2: a continuous external expectation that men are living up to.
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 2: And feminists look at that and they say, well, you
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 2: could be free of that. by replacing it with our
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 2: eternal expectation that you renunciate your masculinity and perform allyship.
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 2: But the difference is... that the man's burden does have
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 2: an external standard. His family is provided for. It is protected, etc.
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 2: The feminist version not only doesn't have a family at
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 2: all or a woman involved, it's just a continuous state
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 2: of self-renunciation. which is never ending. So her ask keeps
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 2: the structure external standard with no discharge and removes the
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: operative channel. So it removes, somebody is being protected by this.
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 2: Somebody is being helped by this. The lights are on.
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 2: I'm keeping the lights on. I'm keeping the sewer working.
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 2: I'm keeping people's water flowing. And now it's just, I
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 2: am a man. Being a man is bad forevermore. And
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 2: then her exemplar selection. The stated criteria is stances. Every
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 2: exemplar is high status. The ordinary man only appears after
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 2: the objection, defensively, and isn't really ordinary because he's a
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 2: corporate lawyer. Under operative reading, selection is data. What she
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 2: picks indicates the operative content of the standard regardless of
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 2: what she says the content is. With the stance list
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 2: reading blank, the only load-bearing object left is the named
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 2: person and his distinguishing attributes. The ones verifiable and actually
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 2: differing from the reader are fame, platform, wealth, access, and appearance.
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 2: His stances are not distinguishing. Anyone can hold them at
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 2: zero cost. So what I'm saying is that the operative
• 2:19:15
  Speaker 2: modality looking at this says, okay, you're giving me a
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 2: blank paper and the only thing on it is Pedro Pascal.
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 2: So how does Pedro Pascal differ from me? Well, he's
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 2: got more money. He's wealthier. He's got a platform. People
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 2: listen to him. He converts your signal to a lot
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 2: more people. That must be what you're asking for. And
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 2: she doesn't understand that because she's a relational web thinker.
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 2: If the criteria were the stances, the exemplars would be
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 2: ordinary men because ordinary men hold those stances constantly. There
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 2: are plenty of ordinary feminist men she could have chosen.
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 2: Or she could have made one up.
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 2: But she didn't. She went to the man she actually
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 2: thinks are exemplary. verification requirement her stated reason for using
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 2: celebrities readers don't have to take my word for it
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 2: they can watch they can google watch clips and see
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 2: and judge for themselves her stated reason for excluding real
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 2: life men she knows you would be starting from a
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 2: place of no frame of reference you'd have to take
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 2: my word for it and it would take three or
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 2: four times as long to write the format admits only
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 2: display that is third-party verifiable at a distance in order
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 2: men ordinary man's conduct is not no footage no record
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 2: no audience she asserts the qualities are universally available The
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 2: verification regime she specifies is not. The verification regime for
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 2: a virtue signaler is not universally available. You have to
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 2: have an audience. You have to have a corporate audience.
• 2:20:40
  Speaker 2: You have to have an audience of fans. You have
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 2: to have an audience of media readers. Otherwise, you're signaling
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 2: to nothing. It's meaningless. Her rebuttal to the objection, how
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 2: on earth is any of that only the purview of
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 2: the rich and famous, is answered by her own defense
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 2: of her method two paragraphs later. The qualities are not
• 2:20:56
  Speaker 2: the purview of the rich and famous. Proving them in
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 2: the format she requires is. Right? So the only way
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 2: to compete or the only way to bear cost is
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 2: to prove it in the format that she requires to
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 2: become as rich and famous as Pedro Pascal. The actual
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 2: thing she's asking is meaningless. So when guys look at this,
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 2: you're like, well, OK, saying these things is meaningless. The
• 2:21:16
  Speaker 2: only thing meaningful is that you say it to a
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 2: large audience. So what you're saying is what we need.
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 2: We need to get a large audience, which means we
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 2: need to become famous and rich. The objector's complaint is
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 2: the correct operative powers of the supply. Recording objector words
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 2: total or sorry that the implication of what they've said
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 2: is OK. Sorry, I'm getting in the weeds here. So
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 2: we don't know what the intent is of the objectors.
• 2:21:41
  Speaker 2: This is just a reading through the operative modality. Okay.
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 2: Signaling requires a receiver. Her spec is signal-shaped, so an
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 2: unobserved instance has no status in it. Not failed, not counted, undefined.
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 2: The standard is defined at the point of reception, which
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 2: means it requires an audience to exist. In the text,
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 2: the real-life men she admires are excluded, and the stated
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 2: reasons are unverifiability, not absence of merit. She concedes their
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 2: virtue exists and discards it as unusable. The cost she
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 2: names for including them is her own production effort, not
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 2: doubt about the men. She never addresses whether a man
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 2: whose good conduct nobody records has met the standard. So
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 2: that's the problem. That's the big hole. And of course
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 2: it doesn't because you have to renounce your masculinity to
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 2: something or it isn't meaningful. All of this is signaling,
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 2: every bit of it. So the big hole in her
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 2: entire argument is can men do this and be good
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 2: without anybody watching? And the answer is no, which goes
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 2: right back to Brian's point. This is Pharisees. This is self-righteousness.
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 2: This is virtue signaling with no there there. And it's
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 2: being rejected by men, and they are absolutely right to
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 2: do so. And any man who's listening to this and
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 2: reading the schlock that she's putting out you will get
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 2: nothing from following it except making the world a worse place.
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 2: You know, be proud. Or you don't even need to
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 2: be proud, but just recognize you don't need to renunciate
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 2: being a man who thinks that doing things in the
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 2: world makes the world a better place rather than virtue
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 2: signaling about things you do nothing for. Who recognize that
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 2: virtue signaling about things you do nothing for is costless, meaningless,
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 2: and has reflex in no way on people's actual character.
• 2:23:29
  Speaker 2: So she can have this list of things you should
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 2: virtue signal for as much as she wants, but it
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 2: does not mean anything. And it does not indicate the
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 2: character of men if they don't want to virtue signal it.
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 2: It has absolutely nothing to do with that. Nor is
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 2: virtue based on doing works that maintain infrastructure, that build things,
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 2: that transport things, that make things happen for people, nor
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 2: is virtue or nor the ethics related to men, the
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 2: men who do that, they are not inferior, ethically inferior
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 2: to this woman. In fact, I would argue they are
• 2:24:07
  Speaker 2: superior to this woman or all of her male allies.
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 2: And embracing this makes the world a worse place. Embracing
• 2:24:14
  Speaker 2: this retarded hierarchy makes the world a worse place to be.
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 2: And the individuals who assert this, that virtue signaling says
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 2: anything about character, should probably grow up. Alright, I'm done. Alright.
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 1: Well, everybody left the game, so I guess we should
• 2:24:34
  Speaker 1: just end the show. Yeah.
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 2: Sorry, guys. All right, so if you would like to
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 2: send us a message at any time after the show
• 2:24:42
  Speaker 2: is over, hopefully my voice isn't too weird, because my
• 2:24:46
  Speaker 2: little thing that comes off and records my voice is
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 2: in a weird position. If you would like to send
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 2: a message at any point after the show is over,
• 2:24:53
  Speaker 2: do so at feedthebadger.com slash justthetip. Very best way for
• 2:24:56
  Speaker 2: you to send a message and a tip. And if
• 2:24:59
  Speaker 2: you would like to support the show, you can do
• 2:25:01
  Speaker 2: so at feedthebadger.com slash support. We are in the last month,
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 2: like two weeks, like less than two weeks, like 11 days.
• 2:25:09
  Speaker 2: So get that support in if you want to make
• 2:25:12
  Speaker 2: sure that we can bring you this. We can bring
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 2: you the counter argument to regarding virtue signaling as more moral,
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 2: more ethical, and more important to society than getting things done.
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 3: All right?
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 2: Okay? You want to keep that message alive? Then support
• 2:25:29
  Speaker 2: us at feedthebadger.com slash support. And finally, if you want
• 2:25:33
  Speaker 2: to join us in the community and hear more about
• 2:25:35
  Speaker 2: the frameworks that I use to analyze stuff, you can
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 2: do so at badgernation.online. I'm going to hand it back
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 2: to Brian because this has been one hell of a
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 2: long show.
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. All right, I'm just going to read Dark Iggy
• 2:25:46
  Speaker 1: Mora's Super Chow real quick, and then we're going to
• 2:25:48
  Speaker 1: end it. So he gives us $ 5 and says, have
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 1: you ever spent hours talking with a woman and then
• 2:25:52
  Speaker 1: suddenly realized you've talked about absolutely nothing at all that
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 1: entire time? Yes. All right, so if you guys like
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 1: this video, please hit like, subscribe if you're not already subscribed,
• 2:26:01
  Speaker 1: hit the bell for notifications, leave me a comment, let
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 1: us know what you guys think about what we talked
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 1: about on the show today and share the video because
• 2:26:06
  Speaker 1: sharing is caring. I got what?
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 2: I think I'm stuck in that smiley face. No, it's... Oh, no,
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 2: I wasn't pissed. I was looking pissed. Okay, sorry. Keep going.
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. So, yeah, if you guys like this video,
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 1: please hit like, subscribe. If you're not already subscribed, hit
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 1: the bell for notifications. Leave us a comment. Let us
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 1: know what you guys think about what we talked about
• 2:26:25
  Speaker 1: on the show today and share the video because sharing
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 1: is caring. Thanks so much for coming on this episode
• 2:26:28
  Speaker 1: of this extra long four-hour stream, and we'll talk to
• 2:26:32
  Speaker 1: you guys in the next one. Hi, Uncle Lazer here.
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