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JUST SA Gauteng — Is'haaq Akoon · TIPS Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Trade and Industrial Policy Strategies official podcast Eclipse Talk, the show where we delve into the fascinating world of economics and its impact on global development.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Note Hembi Machlangu, and today we are asking why it is important for local and provincial government officials in the Ghaodeng province to understand the impact of climate change and the imperative to decarbonize our economy as well as make the transition just.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: We are finding ourselves in Johannesburg to see how government officials can turn policy into action.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to say we have a special guest with us today.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: It is a great pleasure to have you here.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Before we start our discussion, could you introduce yourself and let us know what work you're currently busy with?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for the invitation to be part of this podcast this morning.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Isalka Kuhn.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm senior manager for climate change in the city of Ekruleni, and I've been in the post for the last uh six years.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for the introduction.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: And can you just extend on the work that you're currently doing?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So our work basically involves making sure that there's proper strategies and policies in place within the city for climate change, ensuring that we've got a climate action plan that we can be proud of, that we can be implementing on a daily basis, that we champion all the implementation and reduce the vulnerabilities of climate change within our communities, and ensure that the focus point at the mayoral level also considers these as a key critical issue on the agenda with all the other service delivery problems that we have.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Climate change needs to be up there in terms of dealing with this here because we need to de-risk the vulnerabilities and the impacts of climate change within the various communities.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that's our main focus, and on a daily basis we try and move towards that.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, after the two-day intensive training on the just transition and green economy, what would you say were the key takeaways?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say really stood out for you during the training?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the training was quite intensive.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think you can say that again.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was two jam-packed days.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: There was a lot of knowledge that was shared.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me, just if we were to highlight some key takeaways, it would be obviously emphasizing on the alignment of national and provincial policy frameworks within the local government context.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it was very nice how they brought that down for us from a national and provincial level, what we need to focus on as municipal employees.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of uh opportunities and mandates that are given to local government within these frameworks, and we needed to make sure that we reinforce the need for integrated planning and low carbon development at a local level.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what we need to champion going forward.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: How we've done that within the city of Ecuadini is primarily focused on our just transition as part of our climate action planning work.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: So within the climate action plan document that we've drafted and got approved by the council, uh, which was last year, May, once we got approval of that, there was to make sure that there was a dedicated section on just transition within that policy framework.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: In addition to that, there I think the insight from the facilitators and the local experts that were part of the training panel highlighted some key opportunities on international cooperation, economic drivers, socioeconomic vulnerabilities that are linked to the just transition.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think those linkages are very important in terms of the impact that it can have going forward when you're planning around this year.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think focusing on reskilling, labor protection, and community involvement and community-driven approach is very important.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was very clearly outlined in the two-day program that we had.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then lastly, I think the training had a very strong practical focus and gave key practical examples, which is nice because sometimes when you go to these trainings, it stays at that very theoretical level.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what TIPS was able to do was bring that down to a practical level and just show us for cities how to low risk our investment and our implementation.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the main focus behind that there is that you need good data, you need to have data-driven approaches, and that you need to shape the local transition pathways that are very inclusive so that they are community focused and that you work on those solutions with the community.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, overall, I think the training reinforced the importance of a people-centered approach, evidence-based and collaborative approach to the municipal climate action planning process that we had in the background, and moving that there towards transition and just transition planning, it's very important to make sure that you cover all these different spheres.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, building on that, you mentioned that there are many linkages.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, speaking about the just transition discussion, connecting it to your work, you know, you came back from the office.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: How would you say you infuse those policies in the work that you do?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're at a great point when we attended the training, is that we were still finalizing the development of our climate action plan.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: So as we came back to office after that, there we made sure that some of the theoretical knowledge that we had learned in the training became easily reflectible in this climate action plan that we had developed.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: So the first thing, you know, it's around embedding the social protection and skills development.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's very, very important for us as a city of Acrouleni.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: We support the mining sector in a large way, you know, both on our peripheries of our borders.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's large-scale coal mining districts and Machlachleni and the likes.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And we need to make sure that the industrial component and the manufacturing components of AcroLeni that support that there are well up to speed.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we try to reflect that at the theoretical level within our climate action plan.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, that looks at like supporting reskilling, developing new labor markets and policy development around those labor markets, and then community integration, how we can get the conversation started with the communities.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, that's then sort of at a high level reflected in our climate action plan for the city of Ecuadini.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: The second point that I'd like to raise is obviously around integrating the transition into sector planning.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that was focused on quite nicely at the training was transport.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And this being a key focus area for the city because we're one of those ones that sort of lag behind in terms of bus rapid transit.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: But we've been trying to get up to speed in terms of moving the people around.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got for the last year and a half now, the link between Tembisa and Kempt Park and the airport finalized in terms of the BRT route.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: So there's been a lot of capital investment and infrastructure development around transport mobility within the city of Eculeini.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's a large opportunity, and we've had those difficult conversations already with the transport department to say come up to speed in terms of how we can further develop this mobility plan for the city of Eculeini because this is a very large opportunity in terms of creating jobs and reskilling people to be absorbed within that space.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think, in addition, some of the focus areas in terms of the reforms looked at energy waste, which is a big sector.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: We work very closely with the waste department in terms of composting, in terms of recyclables, in terms of waste to energy.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: How can we move and transition a little bit faster and a little bit higher pace so that we can create those much needed jobs?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then one of the other areas is around health and air quality.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's an area that we don't focus on enough.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of opportunities for areas to be supported, for us to upgrade the facilities, where they'd be primary healthcare facilities, whether it be tertiary healthcare facilities, where we can make these areas more conducive for people as we move to a higher impact of heat within the city and dealing with the issues of vulnerable communities and informal settlements.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: How can we then transition that and create those jobs so that people can be taken care of more adequately?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then lastly, I think one of the key things that raised the bar at the training is using pilot projects as learning labs.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think that word learning labs was something that came out very distinct for me at the training.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, we know the case, piloting reduces risk.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: If we pilot projects in advance, it helps us to showcase the financial viability, bankability of the projects.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And in addition to that, that also enables us to scale at a later stage.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: So if we start at small scale, we then can show proof of concept and then scale quite quickly in terms of getting those projects on the ground.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: So overall, I think you know it helps to improve the evidence-based policy development, and we can have this feedback loop in terms of piloting, uh, redefining the policy, and then moving forward as we scale and then reinfluencing the policy development at a later stage.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, looking at the province and the municipality, you know, you mentioned already transport being opportunities, looking at skills development as well.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: What would you see are the biggest opportunities?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And also mention some of the challenges that the city is experiencing.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's always easier to talk about the challenges first.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that goes without saying there's much more challenges than opportunities.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think as humans we're generally pessimistic.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll start with the challenges first.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, one of the key things is that post-COVID, you know, economic viability of municipalities has come into question.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, that obviously creates a larger risk in the labor market.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um we've got informal sectors where we've got large-scale workers and a large community of workers there with reduced opportunities.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's also reduction of opportunities in the carbon-intensive sectors, especially like I mentioned earlier, around the mining.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: We as Eculeening, we support the mining sector quite large.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can drive on any of our highways and you'll see this earth-moving equipment that's used there.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that's just one component of it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: But there's also manufacturing in the background that supports these carbon economic hubs, if you want to call it that there.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the key is to manage economic restructuring without exacerbating unemployment.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we're trying to focus on as we move the conversation along.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: We've established something, and this is just one of the opportunities.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: We've established something called the Resilience and Just Transition Forum in Ekruleni.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been running that for the last two years.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's a quarterly meeting.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: We meet with all departments within the city of Ecuoleni.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's one of these platforms that we've created that cross-sector.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Not only departments in Ecuoleni, but we invite outside stakeholders.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: So National Presidential Climate Commission have representatives that come from time to time at the provincial level.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: We've got the Department of Environment that come and send their representatives to assist us.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's basically that knowledge exchanging platform.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we've had private sector present at different levels throughout the process and just get the conversation started around how we can maneuver this economic vulnerabilities as we go through them.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that leads into my second point in terms of bridging that capacity and skills gap, which is another challenge.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do we do it and how can it be done more effectively?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Really starts to talk about retraining and skills processing and skills redevelopment.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: So for us, it's around how we can stimulate academia and private sector.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And within these changing sectors and environment, how can we get them on board to redefine the programs that they're offering at an institutional level?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think the last challenge that we have and that we sort of tend to deal with in the South African landscape is this fragmented policy alignment.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for us, there's an opportunity around changing that there, given that we're now sort of creating those large linkages.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's different pace at national, at provincial, and local government, and there's a big opportunity then within local government to move at fastest pace.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So as national is sort of creating these high-level, I don't want to say long-winded, but higher-level plans, we need to then translate it quite effectively and quite quickly at a local level.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So there's great opportunity around that there.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: But that requires obviously strong coordination and a more integrated planning approach, especially if everybody in the municipality can sort of be on the same page.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what that just transition platform is trying to do, is trying to bring everybody in the municipality to have the same voice and the common understanding and a common language around these issues of just transition, climate change, vulnerabilities, and the impacts thereof.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: If I can transition then a little bit more to the opportunity side of things, one of the things that I want to say is, and just building on the policy development component, is SA is evolving in terms of the policy environment.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: We've created these new conducive spaces and new thinkings for innovation.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think one primary example of that is the PCC, the Presidential Climate Commission.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was very innovative of them to sort of step down, place the climate change issue at the presidential level, and then translate that very effectively to all spheres.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: So whether it's private sector or government sector, bringing everybody in the conversation together shows that evolving thinking in terms of how policy is developed.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as a municipality, we need to take key examples from that there.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was pointed out at the training quite effectively to say that there's new ways of designing this policy, and it has to be that collaborative approach.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, in terms of growing collaboration and the platforms that there are, I think we've already established now bridges between other cities, city of Joburg, City of Twane, Ekruleni have become this nexus in the Count province and an example to work together because environmental issues and climate change issues are not boundary specific.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: What happens in one metro very, very quickly translates into another metro.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we've now sort of established that conversation needs to happen more regularly and that we need to break down these boundaries that we hold on to on paper and on maps.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think also, like I mentioned with province and national, those conversations are happening a lot more easily now because of these new thinking and new invention, new innovation around policy development.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think lastly, we've got great opportunities with organizations like Salga, SA Cities Network, C FOTTI, who work very closely with cities and try to bring best practice from international spaces into the South African context.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's quite important.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for sharing your insights today.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: We really appreciate it.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really great to hear your perspective on the just transition and the green economy.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we really hope our listeners draw some inspiration from the work that you're currently doing.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you once again.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Very happy to be part of this year.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope that the work going forward will be very fruitful and you'll be able to train many more people in this space so that we can create that learning platform and knowledge exchange.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: That wraps up today's episode.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: A huge thank you to our guests for sharing their expertise and time with us and for attending this training.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you will continue to champion the mandate of greening the economy in a just and equitable way.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And to our listeners, your support means the world to us.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining the Trade and Industrial Policy Strategies official podcast.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, sustainable growth is not just a goal, but a particularly more resilient and prosperous future.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review and negative.