Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / PR playbook for small business owners

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PR playbook for small business owners · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:09
  Welcome back to the show. Hello. How's it going? It's going good, except that my air con is broken, just as you also don't have air con at your place right now. And so I'm sitting in a bit of a sweat box being like, what the heck? Oh, horrible. I've gone to a very, very cool and air con co-working space. Sorry to rub it in. So I'm fine right now, but it's horrible, isn't it?
• 0:35
  Oh, my God. And today's like a bit of a hot day, but I think tomorrow is meant to be like 36. So I'm not going to be sitting in this room recording any content. Oh, wow. That's too much. That's inhumane. Too much.
• 0:50
  I feel like you must be in warmer weather though, no? In Bali. It's about 33 right now. Oh, okay, right. Which is so nice. Yeah. There are moments where it's too hot. The aircon, yeah, like you mentioned, at the place where I'm staying, they keep having power outages, which is classic. It's fine. But it also means kind of no aircon at night and things like that. And it's a bit much. Oh, my God, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:17
  That's full on. I am so excited to see you this weekend in Bali. Yeah, me too. I'm counting down. We've got two sleeps to go. Let's get started on today's episode. Let's talk about PR for small business owners and early stage founders. What are we doing?
• 1:37
  Yes. So today we're jumping right into the world of PR. So this is something that really every business owner, seasoned or not, is probably already participating in in some way, whether they realize it or not. So it can be the Instagram you just posted, the neighbor you just chatted to about your business idea. But it's also, and this is probably what first comes to mind, this big glossy spread on your 2024 vision board for where your business will be published this year.
• 2:06
  And that's really what this episode is all about. We want to dig into the who it's for, what are we thinking about, what are the practical steps you can take to end up in these publications, and what can you do as a small business owner on a small budget? Love it. Just my cup of tea. Where do you want to get started?
• 2:27
  Great. So I have a couple of questions I'm really looking forward to asking you on this. Shall we just jump right in? Bit of a coaching session as usual. A couple of these questions also come from the community, which is also really great to get these answered always. Yes, let's jump straight in.
• 2:43
  Awesome. So for someone who is completely brand new to this and maybe doesn't have a full sense of what PR is, how would you describe it? What is PR and is it a priority when I'm first building my business on a limited budget, one, and also with limited bandwidth, limited time? Should I focus on this?
• 3:04
  Absolutely. So I guess when we're thinking about PR in the traditional sense, it is getting your brand out there through media, through journalists and telling your story with the goal to, you know, reach a new audience, with a goal to generate sales, all kinds of different things like that. And I guess...
• 3:24
  When we're thinking about, you know, is it a priority in the beginning? There is no really blanket answer because every business is really different and every business suits different channels, you know, some more than others. And so what I will say is that.
• 3:39
  Some brands, especially if you are a founder with a really unique story or something that has really clear hooks that would thrive in the PR kind of environment and in the media world, that can absolutely kind of be used to your advantage through PR and working with journalists and working with media. But then on the flip side, I also know many early stage founders who have invested lots of time and money into brands.
• 4:07
  trying to get their brand out there through PR and didn't get any results. And so it really does depend on your founder story, on what the business is, if it has really strong hooks, unique selling points, things like that. And I would also say with PR, like it's something that's kind of out of your control because it's all about building relationships with media if you're
• 4:30
  kind of, you know, working with journalists, working with editors. So it's kind of more of a long-term play, whereas something like ads, if that's a kind of channel that you're going to commit to and work on, like that's more within your control because you can do it yourself essentially and own the whole process. Whereas PR is so reliant on the other side and working with relationships and people in media. Yeah.
• 4:55
  Absolutely. So to answer the question, is it a priority in the beginning? I would say it really does just depend on what your business is, what your founder story is, and whether or not in the beginning that's a channel that you identify as something that's going to work for you and that you think you should focus on.
• 5:14
  And when we hear things like, oh, you should have a strong hook, and the same is obviously true of social media. We've spoken about that many times. What can founders really imagine with this? Like, what are some examples, if we can think at the top of our head of what could be a strong hook or a good story that would work well with PR? What can people imagine with this?
• 5:37
  So the first thing that comes to my mind, like the answer is like going on the Daily Mail or going on BuzzFeed and seeing what the headlines are. Like what are those clickbait titles look like? Does my story or does my brand, can I apply that same formula? Like what are the things that I can pull out that are really unique? So if I was to like go on Daily Mail right now, let's just have a look. Daily Mail. That's such a good tip. Let's see what like the headlines are.
• 6:04
  Okay, so I'm on the Australian Daily Mail. Oh, no, this is UK. I don't know which one this is, but let's have a look. Let me go to the business section. I think Daily Mail does a really good section on female founders. Let's see. This also reminds me of kind of when we post episodes ourselves, it's certain kind of big numbers always work well.
• 6:28
  any numbers actually work well on a title, if you can leverage that in some way and you have, you know, a strong story around that. Kind of anything that would work well for you on social media is probably also a story for PR. Yeah.
• 6:42
  Exactly. So for example, this one is shoppers rave about life-saving chemist buy that stops mosquito bites from itching. So like looking at these kind of titles and then going through the stories and like this is, you know, Daily Mail, I've just pulled off the top of my head, but like going through the publications where you could imagine your brand being so.
• 7:01
  If you are in the fashion industry and you're like, yeah, the Holy Grail is getting into Vogue. So going on Vogue, looking at the headlines and seeing kind of like, can I formulate some story ideas and use this kind of as a framework to create some angles or pictures that I might be able to send out to media and kind of working backwards from there. But basically like finding a reference point or some inspo kind of articles and then using that as a bit of a guide.
• 7:32
  It's a bit of a benchmark. I love that. Great tip. On that note of kind of reaching out and called reaching out to editors and journalists, how do you suggest going around that process? And what are some, if you're not hiring an agency, what are some free and cheap ways that you can leverage PR in those early days without the support of someone with industry contacts behind you?
• 7:56
  Yes. Okay, cool. I will give you the starting guide for DIY PR. I think for me, and this applies to like this same framework, this same formula applies to so many different things, whether it's the PR list, whether it's the influencer list, whether it's the retail list, whatever it is.
• 8:15
  You want to first identify like, okay, it's, I'm in the early stages of building my business. Do I think that I should pursue this as a channel? Because obviously when you are an early stage solo founder, especially if you're bootstrapped and you don't have a lot of cash, you might be feeling overwhelmed. You might be doing all the things you need to identify if this will be a primary channel for you and whether you should focus on this kind of like every single day or
• 8:45
  And sometimes you might be like, you know what, maybe I should focus my efforts on TikTok. That's the channel that I need to win first and PR second. Or you might be like, I just know that my brand is going to thrive in the kind of media landscape. And so I'm going to take consistent action over a long period of time to kind of get that up and going. So you want to create yourself a system or a process or a workflow, and you want to like stick to it and kind of commit to that over weeks and months.
• 9:15
  So to start creating a system, what I do, it always begins with a spreadsheet, opening up that spreadsheet. Once you have identified your goals and what you want to achieve with PR, so for example, you might be like, I just want this for social proof so I can put these logos on my website or no, I very clearly want this to be sales, you know, ROI when it comes to sales or whatever the goal is kind of behind it. And that kind of dictates that.
• 9:43
  how you go about it. So for example, maybe it's very much social proof. You want to use this to kind of get featured in, you know, everything from Vogue to the Daily Mail, whatever it might be, but you want to use those on your kind of website, but you also want to use it as that kind of credibility piece that you can use in marketing and things like that.
• 10:04
  So you identify your goals and then you start creating the dream list in a tab along the bottom for all the publications that you would love to be featured in. And I'm like a person that loves the dream 100 concept, which is like getting 100 down and then...
• 10:22
  kind of like working through that hundred and I always use that framework, but it can be 10. Like you can also just be realistic and be like, you know what? I only, these five are the ones that matter. And I'm going to relentlessly pursue these five and not waste time on all the other
• 10:40
  you know, 95 or 90 so that you kind of keep quite focused on the goal and also allow yourself to be like, okay, cool. Once a week, I pursue those five in and out kind of like every week versus like spreading yourself too thin across multiple different approaches. So creating the dream list, let's say you stick to 10 and you're like, yep, these are the 10 publications that I want to get into in Q1 or just this year, whatever it might be.
• 11:07
  Then I would create kind of like going through, create the list. I would go through and get all the details I can find about those journalists that create the articles for that publication that are in your industry or niche. So like if you're, you know, looking at, let's see, like a publication like the Daily Mail where they have.
• 11:27
  multiple different sections and all sorts of different editors. You want to go through and find the editor that's talking about beauty or you want to go through and find the editor that's talking about or the journalist that's writing about whatever it might be and getting the contact details of all of those down on the list.
• 11:43
  And then you want to kind of create or build out like a bit of a document within there with your different story hooks, your different angles, like all the things that you think would work in that specific kind of publication. So, for example, let's say...
• 11:58
  Vogue is on your list or Daily Mail is on your list, going to Daily Mail and being like, okay, well, these are the kinds of things that that journalist or that editor talks about. What would be some story pitch ideas that I could send that person when the time is right to get started? Because what you don't want to do is just develop one plain pitch and send the exact copy paste to every different editor.
• 12:18
  You want to take time to, and this is why sometimes it's better to focus on like five or ten versus focusing on a hundred because a hundred would be, you know, a lot. It's a lot, yeah. It's a lot, yeah. But kind of trying to understand like, okay, this is what that journalist usually writes like or this is their style or this is what they're interested in and I think I could position this story because also every journalist doesn't want the same story across all these other publications. They want the unique twist. They want the exclusive.
• 12:48
  when you personalize it and just take a little bit more time to research the journalist and the kinds of things they write about, of course, you're, you know, you're putting all your effort towards a success outcome. So I would create all the different like hooks that could go with each one. And then I would sort of put together basic pitch templates, knowing that you'll always customize these for every person and personalize them, but kind of like the basic stuff that you need to send. And that might also include like whether you have a one pager or something
• 13:18
  Then I would start by following all the journalists that you kind of want to get to know or the editors in the media that you want to get to know on social media and really consume what they're doing because those journalists will be posting content on their own Instagram. They'll be posting the work that they're writing on LinkedIn or wherever it might be. And you want to just get to know again, like you're about to start trying to build a relationship with someone. So you want to understand what they're doing, especially if you're going like,
• 13:45
  you know, you want to get featured organically in something like Vogue, like you, you want to really take some time to get to know who this person is, to understand what they're doing and what they're up to. So that when you do reach out, you kind of have a little bit more, I guess, knowledge versus that, you know, I get a million, I think I get about,
• 14:06
  I calculated it the other day. I get about 300 pictures a month at the moment for the show. And if someone doesn't even know my name, I'm like, wow, come on, that's lazy. So if someone's inbox is being absolutely flooded, imagine the journalists at Vogue. They're being absolutely flooded. So you need to have things that stand out, that are absolutely crafted for that person in mind to open online.
• 14:31
  Because everyone's just, you know, they'll be getting bombarded. They just need to have a quick kind of understanding of whether this is something that applies to them and would be interesting for them to write about or not. So I would kind of start getting to know those editors and getting everything basically prepared in your like PR kind of spreadsheet or Bible or whatever.
• 14:54
  And then, of course, when the time is right and you're like, cool, I'm going to start reaching out and start crafting these emails, I would schedule in time, let's say, once a week or once a fortnight where you are kind of going through, you're sending out that first email, you're kind of asking them if you can send them a beautiful PR gift pack, you're trying to just...
• 15:12
  kind of start that relationship. And a lot of people will send that first email, not hear back, and then be like, oh, well, that's it. I didn't hear back. I should email someone else. But it's really all in the follow-ups. Sometimes something can be in the works for a year before it comes off. And that's happened to me really recently where I got connected to this amazing journalist. And it's been a year of kind of checking in here and there, new updates, new conversations, little tiny bits and pieces. And I'm like,
• 15:41
  that's just the reality that things take time to build a relationship and for them to get to know you. And it's all in that follow-up and maybe it's the second follow-up, but also maybe it's follow-up number five. So you send your original kind of like initial outreach email, kind of introducing yourself, introducing the brand with some information about, you know, your specific hooks or like the things that are really compelling about your story. But then in two weeks time, you might be like, okay, amazing. This really cool thing happened. And,
• 16:10
  maybe you got a retailer or maybe like a video went viral on TikTok and then you go back into their inbox and you're like, Hey, I just went viral on TikTok. This amazing thing happened. I thought, you know, I would just share that update with you. You don't hear back. No problems. A couple of weeks later, something else happens. And you might not be hearing back from them and you're thinking like, I'm being ghosted, but that person on the other end might be on holidays or they might be reading it and just being like, Oh yeah, that's cool. Like I'm, you know, I'm getting to know that brand. I'm following them now on social media and
• 16:37
  And it might not be the time right now, but, you know, a couple more emails of you sharing these amazing updates along the way, they might be like, oh, I'm actually writing a story at the moment that this would be perfect for. And they're top of mind because they always drop into my inbox. And now's the time to reach out. So I think that.
• 16:56
  You know, you can get like a bit down or a bit blue if you've started this process and you're not getting anywhere. But again, it's consistent action over a long period of time. And because it's out of your control and you're trying to build relationships with other people, that's just the nature of the game. And it's something that you've just got to like keep going, keep persisting and taking consistent steps and you'll eventually get there.
• 17:22
  Yeah, I think you make such a good point there, especially for founders not to necessarily take things personally if they don't hit success right away, which is important for small business owners to hear that one knock isn't going to do it. It might be 10 knocks at the door or 20 or 25 before you...
• 17:40
  get an entry. And that isn't to say that what you're doing is the wrong thing. It came up in Magic the other day as well, a similar story to yours about this kind of year graph for this story. One of our founders with a non-alb brand that had also been in contact with someone for a year and now with Dry January,
• 17:59
  Coming up, they landed a Vogue feature, which is amazing. And it just goes to show how it's about timing. It's just about whether the journalist is writing that piece at that time and whether, you know, you fit into that plan for them. Exactly. It's not so much about your business at that point, which is kind of reassuring to know.
• 18:19
  Absolutely. And I think the other thing to keep in mind, and this applies to, again, retailers, influencers, you know, different kinds of partnerships. The reality is the person on the other end has different KPIs, they have different goals, they're doing different things that they're focused on just like you are. And so it might be a no right now, or it might be a no reply right now. But when the time comes, if you've planted that seed and followed up multiple times, and you're kind of on their radar, one day the stars will align and it'll become the right time.
• 18:48
  I think it's about consistency. And I think the second part of the question that you actually originally asked was something to do with getting some other kinds of PR coverage. And I want to quickly touch on LinkBee as a strategy. And this is a really interesting platform if you haven't kind of checked it out before. It's basically like performance-driven PR.
• 19:11
  If you're at a stage where you're like, okay, look, the DIY approach isn't working for me. I'm not hearing back from journalists. I have sent hundreds of emails. I'm just not getting anywhere. Or you're like, you know what, I don't have time and my goal is literally just sales or my goal is social proof, whatever. But you're not yet at the stage where it makes sense to hire an agency. LinkBee is a platform where you can go on and you pay for,
• 19:40
  um, like PR articles to come out, but you only pay for what actually comes out. So instead of working with an agency where you could pay $5,000 a month with no guarantees, you could be like, okay, well, I'm going to a hundred percent put that $5,000 into
• 19:58
  link B as a platform and I want to be featured in Vogue or the Daily Mail. And I'm happy to pay $5,000 for that, which potentially if you hire an agency that's $5,000 a month, maybe you get an article, like maybe you would get that dream article, but maybe you wouldn't even. So there's no guarantees. So you can put it into link B and the way it works is like, if it gets picked up, you only pay for the amount of clicks that come through and
• 20:22
  It's like a really powerful channel where you can 100% get the results that you need and just pay for the performance. And, you know, when I think about LinkBee, I have some of my coaching clients who have done campaigns on there for the purpose of the social proof, having those logos on their websites, but also wanting to generate sales because they understood that, you know, their product was...
• 20:49
  you know, a broad kind of audience. And if they got their brand featured on something like Daily Mail, like it would just work. And, you know, they've had crazy success. And off the back of that, you know, other articles have come out and they've been able to just pay for...
• 21:05
  pay for what they want, basically. So it's a really powerful platform if you do have budget that you want to allocate to PR and you don't want to do the totally DIY approach or you're not having any luck, but you're not yet ready to kind of invest in the full-on PR agency.
• 21:23
  And a way to take this control back in your own hands, like we mentioned a little bit at the start of the episode. It's cool to see how the industry is changing and these things are popping up where you have more control over, you know, the efforts that you're putting in, what you're getting back out as a result. And also measuring the impact of your campaigns and choosing yourself, you know, when or when not to go for something and when to pull out. Which also brings me to the next question. And we touched upon this a little bit already.
• 21:53
  It's a bit the sense of you said PR is a long game. It can really take up to a year. And it's more about this relationship building in the background. That's going to be the game changer at the end of the day. How do you know if you're wasting your time? How can you kind of measure the impact of your campaigns? And or how do you know if you're just chucking money at something? Do you mean if you're working with an agency? No, if you're doing it yourself through something like LinkBee or...
• 22:21
  reaching out to agents yourself or reaching out to journalists yourself. Right. How do you know if your efforts are paying off or whether you're wasting your time and resources?
• 22:32
  Well, I think with DIY PR, if you're literally doing it yourself and you're trying to build those relationships, set yourself kind of like a realistic timeframe. So maybe three months that you're going to focus on it or six months that you're going to focus on it. And after that time, if you've really given it a good go and you've tried different things, you've sent hundreds of emails and you literally aren't getting anywhere.
• 22:53
  then it would probably be time to be like, okay, I need to focus on something that I can have in my control or try something like LinkBee because maybe now it's not worth my time anymore. But I think with PR, like if you're thinking about LinkBee, like it's an immediate result. The campaign either gets picked up within like 24 hours or not. You then will know...
• 23:13
  how much traffic that article drove, how many clicks it drove, how many sales it drove. It's like fully from start to finish managed. I think where it's a little bit more kind of tricky is when you're actually in the phase of do I hire an agency and thinking about it from the agency perspective, because when you're kind of
• 23:35
  You know, usually when you're thinking about working with a PR agency, they will tell you that you need to invest around six months before you might start seeing results because it takes time to build the relationships and there's no guarantee. So you could spend six months and not get a single article. And that has happened to me before. So, yeah.
• 23:53
  When you're thinking about, do I hire an agency or not? You need to, again, identify your goals and what you want out of it. And, you know, do you think that your business is going to thrive with that as a channel? And maybe you're like, yeah, I don't have the time to do it myself, but I do have the budget kind of thing.
• 24:08
  So if you're working with an agency and usually it's like anywhere from, you know, $5,000 and upwards, sometimes maybe $2,000, but usually it's around $5,000. That means that you would be looking if you're, and if you're thinking three to six months with no guaranteed results as a starting point, that's $15,000 to $30,000. So if
• 24:32
  Knowing that in mind, you then need to ask yourself, okay, $30,000, is that going to get me the results that I need? Or what else could I do with $30,000 that would guarantee results? $30,000, maybe that's better invested in ads. Maybe that's better invested in performance-driven campaigns on LinkBee. Maybe it is PR. Maybe it's still the answer, but you still need to kind of go through that process of,
• 24:58
  What does that $30,000 look like? And then do I have budget for ads? Do I have, if it's your only kind of channel that you're drilling down in, I would tend to say it's probably not what you would kind of invest in first. And then I would also say a really simple framework when you're thinking about, you
• 25:17
  budget for PR, but budget for anything really, if it doesn't have guaranteed results that, you know, you can kind of track and kind of measure very, very clearly, like something like ads, you just need to ask yourself, am I happy to spend this $30,000 even if I get $0? Like, is it worth...
• 25:35
  doing this, knowing that I don't have any guaranteed outcomes here? Does the reward of this significantly outweigh the risk? And am I just happy to spend this money if I lose it all? Because usually when you put that simple framework, like, okay, am I willing to lose this? It's a very simple answer, whether it's a yes or no, because sometimes you might be like,
• 25:55
  This is definitely worth it. I'm going all in. And sometimes you might be like, yeah, I'm not willing to part with that $3,000. I think it could be better allocated to ads or amazing kind of UGC content creators or TikTok shop or whatever it might be. So yeah.
• 26:11
  If it were me and I was in the shoes of an early stage founder who is kind of just getting started, you haven't found product market fit yet. So you're trying to kind of figure out your primary, you know, organic marketing on TikTok or Reels or whatever it is. I would be wanting to either DIY my PR in the beginning if I know that it will thrive in the PR environment, or I would be going immediately to something like LinkBee if I was just thinking, hey, I need social proof. I want this on my website. And I just like...
• 26:39
  want this to happen this way. And I wouldn't really be exploring moving into an agency until I've proven out product market fit, until I already have my own organic content working in my favor, until I already have kind of either ads or gifting or another kind of controlled stack of efforts working in my favor. And then I would be thinking, okay, great. I have all these things working. I have all these balls in the air kind of that are like
• 27:07
  getting me results. Now, how can I use an agency to amplify and accelerate all the success that I'm having with the brand kind of currently? And that's when having an agency, especially a good agency, and there are many really, really good, powerful agencies out there. That's when it can be just insanely powerful because they're going to take all of that foundational work that you've
• 27:35
  wins that you've had and they're going to put it on speakerphone and that's when it's amazing. Whereas in the beginning, if you haven't had kind of the hooks and the stories developed yet and the success to go with it, because like you said in the beginning, you know, Daily Mail will, they'll often do articles that are like this viral TikTok product sold out in 12 hours or whatever it is. And you want those kind of hooks to then go into your PR.
• 27:59
  You're so right. Getting really real on this self-audit, knowing where you're at, both financially and where you are in the journey, and also not comparing your step two or three or four or whatever it is with some huge company step 100 that's getting all these crazy articles that you also want. You know, not aiming for that immediately if that's just not where you're at yet in the business.
• 28:22
  And I think if you're a solo founder, it's just, it can really be so overwhelming because you know, you need to do all these things in many different directions, but you just need to get really sharp and really focused on picking like a primary channel that you need to master. And only once that is mastered, kind of moving onto the next channel and stacking things
• 28:42
  everything from there because it's very easy to be like, okay, I'm going in a million different directions. I'm doing all the things. And that's when you could kind of not make real progress in any direction. And you're like, damn it, like nothing's really happening. But if you're like out there kind of creating content every single day, chipping away at TikTok and figuring out how to win on that platform and you're in control of your own output and everything like that,
• 29:07
  If you're then going viral, chances are PR and journalists and media people are seeing you anyway, and then they're going to be reaching out to you and it's going to become inbound, and that's when you pursue those kind of opportunities and you've kind of, it's not you sending things out into the ether, you're just focusing on this channel that's driving people.
• 29:26
  eyeballs and getting attention. And then that brings inbound things like retailers and buyers and, you know, journalists reaching out to you.
• 29:39
  Absolutely. Or in our case, even podcasts. I mean, what just came to mind when you were saying that then was, I mean, my feed is full of videos of you on the Lazy CEO podcast last week. And I'm so excited for this to come out. I think that's also a good example of like getting picky about the kind of PR moments that you think will work well for you and getting to a stage where, you know, that's inbound and unbound and you can do a back and forth and a bit of a collaboration with someone in the space even. Yeah.
• 30:08
  And you probably get a lot of invites for different podcasts. And yeah, I'm so excited for this one. It looks awesome. I'm so excited too. Oh my gosh, it's going to be great. It was a long chat. We had so much fun. Oh, super nice. We'll keep you updated for when that's live. Just to round off on that's one PR moment. Can you think of any other kind of cool PR moments lately that have stood out to you from female founder brands?
• 30:35
  Yes, I was thinking about this question earlier and just my favorite one. And I know we've brought this up so many times on the show already, but I just think it's such a good example of, you know, creating these moments in your brand story or your brand journey that then are able to be leveraged with PR. So when we're thinking about a brand moment or something kind of fun, I always go back to TBH skincare because I'm.
• 31:03
  In the beginning, Rachel was just so good at kind of creating these organic viral content moments by just doing fun stuff that was on brand for TBH skincare. And one of those was she dressed up as Margot Robbie and like pulled this prank when Margot Robbie was in Sydney promoting the Barbie premiere.
• 31:23
  Yeah. And they filmed it. She kind of like created a lot of content off the back of it. But what happened is that video did go viral and that kind of generated a ton of press. And I should say she does work with an agency. So, you know, obviously all the pieces were coming together here, but it's still a good example of if you go ahead and create these moments yourself, you know, you're going to be able to do that.
• 31:44
  this is still a hook for PR. So she could have, even if she didn't have an agency, she could have then been like, cool, hey, I'm gonna send this email to a couple of editors that I know in the industry and basically be like, my TikTok video went viral because I dressed up as Margot Robbie and pranked everyone.
• 32:02
  And it was just kind of nuts. And then, of course, that's a great story for PR and media and journalists to kind of jump on. And I mean, who knows, even if she didn't have an agency, maybe those journalists would have seen it and reached out anyway. Like it might have been totally inbound. We don't know if it was, you know, as a result of the agency kind of leveraging that moment, but creating kind of stunts and things that inherently will go viral and then using that as your leverage to get PR off the back of it.
• 32:33
  I love that. Another one just popped into mind as you were speaking there. I don't know if you caught this one, but Jade Hondula is the founder of Sunse. It's a tanless or a sunless tanning brand. They had a brilliant campaign go live for, I think it was Skin Safety Awareness Week or something along those lines. And they did an undressed campaign where they got a load of influencers involved.
• 32:55
  got them to completely go bare, so completely dressed down. As in they were naked? They were naked. Okay. I love that. They were naked. But, you know, not showing everything, but they were naked and did this campaign in black and white pictures. And lots of different influencers were involved. Like, I think it was Phoebe Burgess, Jules Robinson, a couple of really big Aussie influencers. And...
• 33:23
  Then it raised both awareness for skin safety and the feed was just full of these black and white pictures. And they had a lot of success with that campaign. That was really cool to see. Oh, wow. I love that. Yeah, so cool. Creating the moments that you can leverage through press.
• 33:40
  Exactly that. Awesome. Love that. Well, I feel like if anyone has more questions about PR, pop them in the Facebook group, drop into my DMs, go chat with us wherever we are. I feel like we love these episodes. We love these community questions.
• 33:59
  absolutely and also a quick shameless plug for the newsletter here because I feel like you shared so many great frameworks in this episode and if people are wanting to consume that content in another way as well as through your ears we'll be writing all of those down and posting them in the newsletter for Monday so you'll have them in that format as well just FYI amazing thank you so much see you next week see you next week that's the pod that's the pod
• 34:32
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• 34:57
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• 35:19
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