Latest / The Evolution of Evil - True Crime Stories / True Crime Documentary - Heartbreaking Murder of Josh & Chloe Bashford

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True Crime Documentary - Heartbreaking Murder of Josh & Chloe Bashford · The Evolution of Evil - True Crime Stories

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This time on killers. Caught on camera in the UK,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: a man claims to be involved in a double homicide.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: He said he's much two people.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: Somebody had walked into the police station and said that
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: it killed two people.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I can remember.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: My first question back was have they and in the US.
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: I murdered my girlfriend.
• 0:33
  Speaker 5: You'll need to use forceful untry to get into the house.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Tensions mount as police track a killer.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Just sounds like something bad is happening to her.
• 0:48
  Speaker 6: We know what happened because the video tells what happened.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I heard him gunshot.
• 0:53
  Speaker 6: I mean there it's again.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Camera doesn't lie.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: In the UK, in East Sussex, New Haven.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: Sussex, it's a varied county. There are pockets who quite
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: built up in urban areas. It's relatively rare for there
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: to be a homicide. I think that we would anticipate
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: no more than ten the year. Homicide is a crime
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: that is very varied. One of the things that I say,
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: there's no such thing as a typical murder.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: June ninth, twenty twenty three, an elderly man walks into
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: a police station and makes a shocking confession.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Are you right, what's happened today?
• 1:49
  Speaker 7: You've killed two people.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: Okay, I can remember it very well. I've just got
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: home from work. My phone rang. The caller told me
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: that somebody had walked into the police station and told
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: the counter officer that they'd killed two people. I can remember.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: My first question back was have they.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: The officer noticed the man's right hand was injured.
• 2:12
  Speaker 7: What's that from a knife?
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: If you've got a knife on you?
• 2:18
  Speaker 7: Okay?
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: The whole scene seems really surreal. In my head, I'd
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: be going, is this man having a psychotic break? Does
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: he think that he has killed somebody when he hasn't?
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Is he imagining this? Is he illucinating? Is he confused?
• 2:35
  Speaker 7: A man in the front office is bleeding from his
• 2:37
  Speaker 7: right hand. He says it's from a knife, of course.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Then the next question is, well, where did this happen?
• 2:42
  Speaker 7: He said, he's murdered two people and he's closed and
• 2:44
  Speaker 7: the knife are at the address that it has happened at.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Two officers were dispatched immediately. If there is any chance
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: of saving anybody's life, that's going to be the focus.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Police arrived at the address.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: They were able to gain access to the property from
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: an insecure window in the kitchen.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: The officers at the scene confirmed there were in fact
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: two people dead inside the house.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: This wasn't a typical who'd done it. It was quite apparent
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: who'd done it, and what we were looking for is
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: to understand how the events had unfolded.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: The victims were identified as Chloe and Josh Bashford. They
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: lived with their four children in the coastal town of
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: New Haven. For Josh, it was love at first sight.
• 3:47
  Speaker 8: He came in and he staid, old, just to let
• 3:50
  Speaker 8: you know, Mom, I have met a young lady. He
• 3:56
  Speaker 8: was over the nome was yeah, perfect, very he was ecstatic.
• 4:05
  Speaker 8: He was just smitten by Chloe.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Josh was thirty three years old and worked as a
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: broadband engineer.
• 4:14
  Speaker 8: He absolutely loved his job.
• 4:17
  Speaker 9: He's very proud of that end of fact that you
• 4:20
  Speaker 9: could climb up telegraph poles.
• 4:23
  Speaker 8: Particularly when you take photos when he's up the telegraph
• 4:26
  Speaker 8: pole of himself.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Josh and his brother Billy were extremely close.
• 4:34
  Speaker 10: I think Georsh was the only person ever really who
• 4:36
  Speaker 10: got me, who understood me, and I think I was
• 4:38
  Speaker 10: the only person who undertoo him.
• 4:40
  Speaker 11: We definitely had that brother connection.
• 4:43
  Speaker 8: No, Billy, I camod camera, we.
• 4:52
  Speaker 9: Haven't got one.
• 4:59
  Speaker 11: These were your which was warhammer figures.
• 5:02
  Speaker 10: He used to collect them when we were younger, and
• 5:04
  Speaker 10: I used to sit down and watch him painting them
• 5:06
  Speaker 10: two early hours in the morning and he would just
• 5:07
  Speaker 10: sit there with all these different figures and just painting.
• 5:11
  Speaker 11: So that was his happy place really.
• 5:13
  Speaker 10: I suppose he found it very therapeutic and he just
• 5:15
  Speaker 10: loved doing it, and I could see how happy he
• 5:17
  Speaker 10: was in the joy in his face.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Josh and Billy bonded over their love of football.
• 5:24
  Speaker 11: Football was a massive part of our relationship.
• 5:27
  Speaker 10: He was a Crystal Palace fan and I was a
• 5:28
  Speaker 10: Brighton fan, and that was one of the biggest part
• 5:32
  Speaker 10: of our relationship.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Chloe Bashford ran the family home. Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday.
• 5:44
  Speaker 10: To Chloe's very jocable person should like outgoing, and so
• 5:50
  Speaker 10: was Josh. They are very bubbly, very outgoing. I think
• 5:52
  Speaker 10: they're in a laugh together, smacking one gree.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Derek Martin was Chloe's sixty four year old stepfather. Recently,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: he'd been spending more time at the house in new
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Haven and helped Chloe with the school run.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: Derek Martin had been married to Chloe's mother, but they'd
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: long separated and divorced before Chloe was born.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Derek and Chloe had become close in recent years.
• 6:28
  Speaker 10: People said that he wanted to have a new sort
• 6:29
  Speaker 10: of connection with the family and start again a new chapter.
• 6:33
  Speaker 11: He was giving him a lot of help. I think
• 6:35
  Speaker 11: they needed it.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: On the evening of June eighth, Derek sent Chloe a text.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: The next morning, Derek stopped at a coffee shop on
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: his way to the house before joining Chloe for the
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: school run. He was dressed head to toe in white.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: This is footage of Derek Martin coming into Costa Coffee
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: wearing a light colored t shirt and light colored trousers.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: He would often buy Chloe a drink before he went
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: to the home to help her with the school room.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: After they'd dropped the kids off at school, Chloe and
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Derek went for breakfast.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: This footage shows Chloe and Derek at the bar of
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: a local hub where they had breakfast together. There's nothing
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: about it that suggests anything untoward has happened or is
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: going to happen. Both appear relatively calm.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: This to me seems like a very normal interaction between
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: his stepdad and his stepdaughter. There's certainly no signs saying
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: something terrible will happen, which is also one of the
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: reasons that perpetrators get access to victims in the first place,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: because the victims, at least initially still trust the perpetrators,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: especially when we're talking about intra familial a stepdad in
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: this case, killing his stepdaughter. After breakfast, Chloe and Derek
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: went to the supermarket.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: The plan for the day was that they would do
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: housework at the home, and Chloe was buying cleaning products
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: and other things to enable them to do this.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: They arrived home at around ten thirty am. Two hours past.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: At one o six pm, Chloe's eldest daughter texted her mom,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: but Chloe never replied to her daughter's message. At two pm,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: it was Derek who sent a text back to Chloe's
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: eldest daughter. An hour later, Derek picked up the youngest
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: two kids from school and took them to the coffee shop.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: They were joined by the two eldest children, but Derek
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: looked different.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: You can see there's been a change of clothes. He's
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: now in shorts and a T shirt. Derek ordered the
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: children a drink.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Derek Martin is out with the kids. He's not distressed,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: he's not nervous. After not hearing back from her mother,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Chloe's eldest daughter started to worry. Derek then took the
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: children for some food. Derek Martin walks into McDonald's like
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: it's just a normal day. If I were to see
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: this interaction, I would assume this is a grandfather out
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: with his grandkids. Everything is normal, everything is calm. After
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: they left McDonald's, Derek drove the kids to Brighton and
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: dropped them off at their grandmother's. A few minutes later,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Derek went to a local shop to buy beer and cigarettes.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Having bought the beer, he went and sat on the
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: beach in Brighton, where he contemplated what his next step was.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: And it almost feels like he is saying goodbye to
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: the outside world. He is saying, I'm going to enjoy
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: this moment on the beach, and in my head, all
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: I can think is probably because he thinks it's his last.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: While he was figuring out what to do, Derek sent
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: a message to the children's grandmother. The children were now
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: extremely concerned. Derek made the decision to hand himself in.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: What's happening today, You've killed two people, okay.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: After officers were sent to Chloe and Josh's home. News
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: spread fast amongst the family.
• 11:09
  Speaker 11: I looked at my phone and I had fifteen miscalls.
• 11:12
  Speaker 11: My heart dropped. I knew that it would be something
• 11:14
  Speaker 11: really bad.
• 11:16
  Speaker 10: I got to his house us possible, and I remember
• 11:18
  Speaker 10: pulling up as a pulled up on the drive where.
• 11:20
  Speaker 11: I just saw about eight police cars.
• 11:25
  Speaker 8: They said that it was Josh and Chloe, and they
• 11:29
  Speaker 8: said that Josh had been stabbed to death and that
• 11:35
  Speaker 8: it was Derek Martin. Oh god, I really that is
• 11:44
  Speaker 8: just when the guilt of us knowing that he was
• 11:54
  Speaker 8: at that house every day. Had I known how violent
• 12:03
  Speaker 8: that man was, I would have gone to drug my
• 12:07
  Speaker 8: son out.
• 12:09
  Speaker 12: But we didn't know.
• 12:10
  Speaker 8: I didn't know, didn't know anything.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Chloe and Josh were confirmed dead inside their home. Derek
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Martin was arrested and taken into custody.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: The time is now seven twelve.
• 12:30
  Speaker 7: Okay, you're under rest on the suspicion of murder times two.
• 12:33
  Speaker 7: The reason for this is that you've stated you've murdered
• 12:35
  Speaker 7: two people. Officers have attended your address and have.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Found two bodies. Okay, don't understand all that.
• 12:41
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: The police started a murder investigation and the Bashford's family
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: home in New Haven was made a crime scene.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: Chloe clearly had sustained a number of injuries. She was
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: lying in a downstairs bedroom. She clearly had been involved
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: in a significant physical altercation upstairs in the master bedroom.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Josh was lying on the floor. He appeared to have
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: injuries to his front and back.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Derek Martin was interviewed by police to try and work
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: out how a morning's housework turned to murder.
• 13:20
  Speaker 12: Told me through exactly what happened at the house.
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: What told you think you got back to the house
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: eleven or something?
• 13:29
  Speaker 12: And who was it at the house at that point
• 13:31
  Speaker 12: when you got that?
• 13:36
  Speaker 6: Okay? And then what happened.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Too?
• 13:41
  Speaker 12: So you've got the cup of tea and you were
• 13:42
  Speaker 12: chatting and then what happened.
• 13:45
  Speaker 13: Then suddenly oh well three, yeah much? You think he
• 13:57
  Speaker 13: was a play one.
• 14:00
  Speaker 12: You haven't a chat generally about money and she wanted
• 14:03
  Speaker 12: to go shopping and things like that.
• 14:05
  Speaker 6: Let him what happened?
• 14:08
  Speaker 13: Yeah, okay, money, money come.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: So what he's saying here is that Chloe was constantly
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: talking about money. The police officer was leaning into his tone.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Is trying to be comforting, is trying to help him
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: continue to be cooperative.
• 14:31
  Speaker 13: Money money, How we help, We help, power help.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: He said that Chloe had been going on about money
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: and for some reason that caused him to lose his temper.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Money or fight over money, is one of the most
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: common motives for murder, and it doesn't need to be
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of money. It can be a couple of dollars.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: It could be a couple of pounds. It's quite triggering
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: for people. It can lead to a fight that gets
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: out of control. What it doesn't fit with is what
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: we want murder to be justified by. We think that
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: murder needs to have a big reason, a big fight,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: a long standing issue. But it can just be someone
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: who reaches in their minds some sort of tipping point
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: and then decides to make a terrible decision and goes
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: ahead and murder. Somebody lost what happened.
• 15:31
  Speaker 6: Fear.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: A pathologist undertook a post mortem examination of Chloe, and
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: it was established that she had been struck multiple times
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: on her head. She had also sustained eight stab wounds
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: to her front and back in various places. It was
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: in fact the stab injuries that were were the cause
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: of her death.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: An conspective I think.
• 16:09
  Speaker 6: As all.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: The forensic pathologist found that Josh had sustained four stab
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: wounds to the front of his chest.
• 16:23
  Speaker 13: That's okay, something on my neck.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: He had what was described as an incised injury to
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: his back, which looked like a raking type injury, so
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: something coming down his back. He also had an injury
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: to his neck, and some other signs that were indicative
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: of him being strangled.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: The brutality of this is, of course, in new relation
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: to what the disagreement was about. In criminology, we call
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: it the victimization gap. When you have the victim on
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: one side and something catastrophic has happened, and then you
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: don't have a sufficiently strong motive on the other side,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: and so that gap between what the perpetrator experiences and
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: what the victim experiences are so wide that the only
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: way you can feel that you can bridge it is
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: by having a really good reason, and this is not
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: a good reason, never mind for the extent of the
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: harm and the injuries that he did.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: Within the forensic examination, there were a number of features
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: that did become useful to understanding what had happened. The
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: door handles to both the door of the room that
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Chloe was found in and the room that Josh was
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: found in had been taken off. Derek Martin later gave
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: an account that he'd taken the handles from the doors
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: to protect the children from seeing what had happened to
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: their parents.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: CCTV footage showed Derek Martin moving the Bashford's family car
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: just after he'd killed Chloe and Josh.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: We can see that Derek Martin by this point has
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: changed his clothes, is now wearing the gray T shirt
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: and blue shorts, and he's moved the car from outside
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: of the address to a nearby street. The reason he
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: gave for doing so was so that the children would
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: be unaware of what had happened.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Derek Martin's actions post murder to me, speak of someone
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: who is trying to clean up what he did. He
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I think might in his own mind, be unclear about
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: what he wants at this point. He's not running away,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: he's not escaping. He's he is taking some steps, but
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: not that many steps to try and get away with
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the crime entirely. Derek also took Chloe's mobile phone from
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: the crime scene and threw it in a bush before
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: taking the kids to McDonald's. He later field where the phone.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: Was hidden he wrote a letter which was given to
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: one of his prison guards that was passed to the investigation.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: A police team was sent to the exact location and
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: found Chloe's phone.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: We also were able to support that with CCTV and
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: indeed that showed him in the bushes where the phone
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: was For some time.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Chloe's mobile phone had saved crucial images from the doorbell camera.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: We were unable to get any moving footage, but we
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: did get a number of still images. This is a
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: photograph of Derek Martin removing the ring doorbell that had
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: been on the front door. You can see an injury
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: on his finger. That injury was caused by the knife
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: that he used to kill Chloe and Joshua. And we
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: did also later discover the ring doorbell in a bush
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: within the garden of the address.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: After Derek killed Chloe and josh he picked up the
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: kids from school as if nothing had happened.
• 20:16
  Speaker 10: After watching all the CCTV, I just think, after what
• 20:20
  Speaker 10: he's just done, it's like the most barbarrack thing I've
• 20:22
  Speaker 10: ever known to happen. And I think he's got their
• 20:26
  Speaker 10: kids in front of him, and how he's acting, I
• 20:29
  Speaker 10: don't know how a person's brain can process to acting
• 20:34
  Speaker 10: normal and driving around with the kids in the car,
• 20:36
  Speaker 10: acting normal, and even watching him going and buy beer
• 20:40
  Speaker 10: and go sit on the beach after what he's done
• 20:41
  Speaker 10: before he takes himself into the police station.
• 20:44
  Speaker 11: I think you're sitting there whilst these two.
• 20:46
  Speaker 10: People have been brutally, brutally killed in their home makes
• 20:50
  Speaker 10: my blood boil. And the more I think about it,
• 20:52
  Speaker 10: the more it makes my head spin, because it's just
• 20:56
  Speaker 10: it's so bizarre.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: What Derek Martin has said is that he was trying
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: to make things as normal as possible for the children
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: and that he wanted to protect them.
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: Okay from markaming.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Derek Martin says that he wants to take care of
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: the kids and that these grandkids are his top priority.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: But he's of course also the reason why they are
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: now orphaned. So as much as he can say I
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: did it for the kids, what exactly about the situation
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: was for the kids. In August twenty twenty three, Derek
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Martin pleaded not guilty to murder but guilty to manslaughter
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: on the grounds of diminished responsibility.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: In this case, Derek Martin put forward a defense of
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: diminished responsibility on the basis that at the time of
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: killing both Chloe and Josh, he was suffering from a depression.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: When you plead insanity, usually what you're trying to do
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: to say I didn't understand what I was doing at
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: the time. The only way that that can be even
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: argued is if you say I didn't understand what was
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: real and what wasn't. Depression can change your perception of
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: what is real and what isn't. But what it doesn't
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: do is make you think that murder is okay, that
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: it's not harmful, or that it might not have long
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: term consequences. No form of depression is going to erase
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: that knowledge and data found on Chloe's phone revealed a
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: meticulous and precise gap between the two killings.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: We were able to show the points at which Chloe
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: had been attacked, It happened around twelve sixteen, and we
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: were also able to prove that Josh hadn't arrived home
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: until twelve twenty one, so there was at least a
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: five minute window. The time between the two killings meant
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: that that wouldn't be something that he could say was
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: as a result of his depression.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: The fact that he pauses gets another weapon pauses for
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: multiple minutes, Josh comes home, and then he attacks Josh.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: That isn't a pattern that's consistent with someone who loses
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: control once. That's someone who feels like they've lost control
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: or let their negative thoughts overtake them once, but then
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: allows it to happen again, and allows to happen again.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: And that's very different than it happening once. But the
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: question still remained, why did Derek Martin kill Chloe and
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Josh Bashford.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: The only thing he said is that there had been
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: some dispute between he and Chloe over money, and that
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: that had led him to essentially lose his temper and
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: lose control, causing him to act in the way that
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: he did.
• 24:07
  Speaker 8: The fact that Derek Martin has not expressed and why
• 24:10
  Speaker 8: he killed Joshua that is just heartbreaking. And I think
• 24:17
  Speaker 8: that had we not been a family, I don't think
• 24:22
  Speaker 8: we'd have got through it, got through it.
• 24:29
  Speaker 12: At all.
• 24:35
  Speaker 8: All I'm doing now is I'm writing to Derek Martin
• 24:39
  Speaker 8: at the prison once a week, ask him why he
• 24:44
  Speaker 8: murdered our son Josh. I don't expect an answer.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty five, Derek Martin was found guilty on
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: two counts of murder.
• 25:00
  Speaker 14: I knew the Bashford family well. You were in Chloe
• 25:02
  Speaker 14: and Joshua's home because they had welcomed you into their lives.
• 25:06
  Speaker 14: The jury rejected the partial defense of diminished responsibility as
• 25:09
  Speaker 14: available to you, and considered you should bear full responsibility
• 25:13
  Speaker 14: for your actions on each account of murder. The sentence
• 25:16
  Speaker 14: is life imprisonment.
• 25:20
  Speaker 10: I think Derek's taken a lot more than I think
• 25:23
  Speaker 10: he knew. He's taken not just a brother away, but
• 25:26
  Speaker 10: for me, my best mate, everything I see, everything I hear.
• 25:32
  Speaker 10: I still now think I'd love to go and tell him,
• 25:34
  Speaker 10: but I can't. I miss him more than life yourself.
• 25:39
  Speaker 10: It's such a massive, massive al behind.
• 25:45
  Speaker 8: That's the Crystal Palace top looks extremely worn, but there's
• 25:51
  Speaker 8: so many memories.
• 25:55
  Speaker 9: Joseph's memorial in a Crystal Palace football club. It was
• 25:58
  Speaker 9: a worry about. It was a good memory.
• 26:02
  Speaker 8: It was just amazing all of us dressed. I had
• 26:06
  Speaker 8: his Crystal Palace football shirt on, and on the thirty
• 26:11
  Speaker 8: third minute of them playing football, his photo came up
• 26:16
  Speaker 8: on the big screen and everyone just stood up and
• 26:21
  Speaker 8: everyone in the stadium, they was singing.
• 26:31
  Speaker 9: I feel like a normal day and amongst all the horrible.
• 26:34
  Speaker 8: Days, it was lovely, very special.
• 26:43
  Speaker 12: Illo.
• 26:45
  Speaker 8: This is where I like to come to for some
• 26:48
  Speaker 8: peace and quiet, and it's where I like to come
• 26:50
  Speaker 8: to think about things and to think about Josh. This
• 26:53
  Speaker 8: is where he liked to be. He was just a
• 26:57
  Speaker 8: lovely son. To have really missed him.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: People always want there to be a sufficiently big reason
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: for murder. The problem is that rarely is that actually
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: the case. Murder often happens for quite banal reasons, like
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: a fight over money that gets out of control. That
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: can be enough to get someone to react incredibly strongly
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: and to say this is the reason I did it.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: But really what it ends up being is just that
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: person is allowing their emotions to take hold and is
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: acting on those negative feelings rather than controlling them. In
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: the US, in Ohio, Columbus, your.
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: Emergency, I would like to turn myself in.
• 28:06
  Speaker 15: Okay, what's going on there?
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: I murdered my girlfriend.
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: You'll need to use forceful entry to get into the house.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Officers were immediately sent to the address where the suspect
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: said he'd murdered his girlfriend.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Callers a fowl, so we don't even know if you
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: killed some money.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: The dispatcher tried to keep the suspect on the call
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: so they could trace their location.
• 28:35
  Speaker 15: Do you want the police to come to you?
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: I'm very mentally unstable, and I'm worried that I'm going.
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: To commit by cop if the cops come and.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Pick me up. He's going to do it my cop.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Police arrived at the suspected murder location.
• 28:58
  Speaker 15: Where are you at?
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: And I don't want to be tricked into being picked up,
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: and so I'm going to refuse to answer that.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Poor feltres can I kick the door and go there
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: for the door?
• 29:12
  Speaker 9: Thank you please?
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: She said, she's right here. We got her. Oh, lady,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: here the house, let's go.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: The victim in the house was identified as twenty nine
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: year old Shannon Hyatt.
• 29:27
  Speaker 12: She'd been stabbed more than thirty times in what appeared
• 29:29
  Speaker 12: to be a frenzied attack. She'd been stabbed on her chest,
• 29:32
  Speaker 12: on her back, and her throat had been slit.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Bouncers is clear.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Shannon was a fraud investigator, thoughtful, generous, and tenacious. She'd
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: graduated in twenty seventeen with a bachelor's degree in psychology.
• 29:52
  Speaker 12: Shannon was the bright light. She was much loved by
• 29:56
  Speaker 12: her friends. She was very active in the local muse sixteen.
• 30:01
  Speaker 12: She loved the arts and her passion was rescuing stray cats.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, Shannon met twenty six year old
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Chance Donaho.
• 30:15
  Speaker 12: Shannon and Chance had an off again, on again relationship,
• 30:19
  Speaker 12: but after about a year they had a serious falling out.
• 30:22
  Speaker 12: When Shannon told her mother that Chance had stolen from her,
• 30:27
  Speaker 12: she blocked his accounts on social media. She blocked his phone.
• 30:31
  Speaker 12: She was clearly trying to signal to Chance that it
• 30:34
  Speaker 12: really was over.
• 30:37
  Speaker 16: Shannon Hyatt seemed like a very together person, not someone
• 30:42
  Speaker 16: who would be at the mercy of someone who's very unstable,
• 30:46
  Speaker 16: and she's the one that ended the relationship when it
• 30:50
  Speaker 16: turned out his behavior wasn't acceptable, so she had boundaries.
• 30:54
  Speaker 16: He began to violate the kind of norms of a
• 30:57
  Speaker 16: healthy relationship, and Shannon was not willing to tolerate that
• 31:01
  Speaker 16: kind of behavior.
• 31:04
  Speaker 12: After the breakup, Shannon went so far as to warn
• 31:08
  Speaker 12: other women about him. She went on a Facebook group
• 31:13
  Speaker 12: called Are We Dating the Same Guy? And posted about
• 31:17
  Speaker 12: him saying that basically he comes across as nice, but
• 31:20
  Speaker 12: he's not. He stole from me, he stole money, he's
• 31:23
  Speaker 12: on tinder don't trust him.
• 31:25
  Speaker 17: She's not slighting his character in any way.
• 31:28
  Speaker 16: She is just pointing out the facts of his behavior,
• 31:31
  Speaker 16: so she doesn't put him down.
• 31:34
  Speaker 17: She's not slagging him off.
• 31:35
  Speaker 16: She's literally just saying, these are the events that happened
• 31:39
  Speaker 16: that were not okay. She's going to take the risk
• 31:42
  Speaker 16: to post something negative about Chance for the benefit of
• 31:46
  Speaker 16: other women, not for her. So it's quite a positive
• 31:49
  Speaker 16: marker but Shannon's personality.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: After the breakup, Shannon changed the locks and got her
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: mom to return Chance's belongings to avoid any further contact
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: with him.
• 32:03
  Speaker 16: Shannon seemed really switched on and she was doing all
• 32:06
  Speaker 16: the right things to protect herself.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: On the evening of August twenty eighth, twenty twenty three,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: a friend was visiting Shannon because she didn't want to
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: be alone in the house. Shannon's friends car can be
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: seen parked in the driveway at eleven eleven pm. Chance's
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: car was captured on camera outside Shannon's home.
• 32:34
  Speaker 16: It's certainly worrying behavior. It's showing that he's not able
• 32:38
  Speaker 16: to contain his feelings.
• 32:39
  Speaker 17: He has to act them out.
• 32:41
  Speaker 16: He sees a car that doesn't belong to her. He's
• 32:44
  Speaker 16: going to create a story in his head. So in
• 32:46
  Speaker 16: a way, he's frothened the milk of his own emotions.
• 32:48
  Speaker 16: He is activating and triggering himself and building himself up
• 32:54
  Speaker 16: to act and do something about it.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: But a short while later, Shannon's friend's car was gone
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: and Chance's silver car was parked on the driveway. At
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: one fifty eight am, a security camera pointing at Shannon's
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: front window captured something alarming.
• 33:20
  Speaker 12: First, a hulking shadow appears, and then within seconds, a
• 33:27
  Speaker 12: bloody hand.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: A few minutes later, Chance Donahoe appeared on camera outside
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Shannon's home.
• 33:40
  Speaker 16: Chance there is pacing back and forth. He's not standing
• 33:43
  Speaker 16: outside calmly having a cigarette, so it shows that he's
• 33:46
  Speaker 16: in some kind of distress.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Four hours passed then Chance donaho called nine one one.
• 34:00
  Speaker 15: Of your emergency.
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: I would like to turn myself in.
• 34:04
  Speaker 15: What's going on there?
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: I murdered my girlfriend.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Officers on the ground were immediately notified, while the operator
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: did everything she could to keep Chance on the line
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: so they could track him down.
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: I plan on taking myself to the police station after
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: the sphone call.
• 34:23
  Speaker 15: Do you want the police to come to you?
• 34:27
  Speaker 12: That operator kept the suspect on the call so that
• 34:30
  Speaker 12: they could try and track him down, because at that
• 34:33
  Speaker 12: moment they must not have known whether he was telling
• 34:36
  Speaker 12: the truth or not.
• 34:41
  Speaker 15: Can I come to you.
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: I would like to turn myself in because I'm very
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: mentally unstable and I'm worried that I'm going.
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: To commit by cop if the cops come and pick
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: me up.
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: So I need to go into the station for my
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: safety and the police officer's safety.
• 34:58
  Speaker 16: There was a dissonance between I mean what he was
• 35:01
  Speaker 16: saying and the tone of his voice. It doesn't sound
• 35:03
  Speaker 16: like someone who's not well and not very stable. He
• 35:07
  Speaker 16: sounds pretty coherent.
• 35:10
  Speaker 12: Please ascertain that the suspect had gone to his mother's
• 35:14
  Speaker 12: home and called them from there.
• 35:17
  Speaker 15: Do you have any weapons on you chance?
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: I have them murdered a weapon with me. It's a knife.
• 35:22
  Speaker 15: Are you able to leave that in your apartment?
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: I live with my mother and she's standing right next
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: to me, holding me accountable for.
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: Making this phone call.
• 35:32
  Speaker 15: Okay? Can we put the knife on tab of the refrigerator.
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's fine.
• 35:36
  Speaker 15: Okay. I want you to put it on there, not
• 35:40
  Speaker 15: your mother. I don't want your mother to touch it.
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 35:44
  Speaker 16: I think the dispatcher did really well at keeping him calms,
• 35:48
  Speaker 16: keeping him engaged, and yet still being firm enough to
• 35:51
  Speaker 16: give him very specific instructions.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Officers were closing in on Chances location.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: To give my mother one last tug before this all starts.
• 36:02
  Speaker 15: Okay, all right, go ahead and do that.
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: I'm going to go to prison now.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: The dispatcher tried to stall Chance so the police could
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: reach him.
• 36:13
  Speaker 15: You're fine, I'd just let you take a couple of
• 36:15
  Speaker 15: deep breaths, all right, okay.
• 36:18
  Speaker 12: The police operator kept him on the phone. She kept
• 36:21
  Speaker 12: talking to him, kept soothing him.
• 36:25
  Speaker 15: Where are you at?
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: I don't want to be tricked into being picked up,
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: and so I'm going to refuse to answer that. But
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: I'm in my car. The car has started, and now
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: we'll not disconnect this call until I reached the jail cell.
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: And you have spoken with an officer.
• 36:42
  Speaker 15: Okay.
• 36:43
  Speaker 12: She kept talking to him even as he drove and
• 36:45
  Speaker 12: his paranoia grew.
• 36:47
  Speaker 15: Do you want to go ahead and drive to the
• 36:50
  Speaker 15: police department and I'll stay on the line.
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Police, We're given a description of Chance's car and we're
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: scouring the neighborhood looking for him. Meanwhile, another team of
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: officers arrived at Shannon's house right here?
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Can I kick the door and go there for the door?
• 37:18
  Speaker 17: Please?
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: She said, she's right here. We got her. There's the house.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Let's go.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Across. Columbus police patrols were looking for Chance's car.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: I think I got him right here.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Finally they got him in their sights.
• 37:40
  Speaker 12: He became aware that the police were behind him.
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: There's a cob right behind me. I know that I'm
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: being followed. If you have this officer on dispatch, I
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: need you to tell him to just follow me to
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: the police station.
• 37:54
  Speaker 15: Can you just pull over and let him put you
• 37:57
  Speaker 15: in the back so he can take you to the
• 38:00
  Speaker 15: police station. It makes it so much easier, Chance, It
• 38:04
  Speaker 15: would just make it be done right now.
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: Okay, okay, yeah.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Chance conceited and slowly pulled into a gas station.
• 38:20
  Speaker 12: When police pulled over the suspect, they knew they had
• 38:25
  Speaker 12: to handle the whole situation carefully.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Hey, Chance, you can hear me take your car off.
• 38:31
  Speaker 12: They didn't want to inflame the situation.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Chance. Can he put both hands out the window for me?
• 38:39
  Speaker 12: They knew he might be very unstable.
• 38:43
  Speaker 16: Takes away, face away, slowly start walking backwards.
• 38:48
  Speaker 12: They knew that he might commit suicide by cop.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Back towards the sound of my voice. Keep walking back,
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: back towards me, towards the sound of my voice, keep
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: walking back slow.
• 39:10
  Speaker 12: When they arrested Chance Donahoe, the police discovered that there
• 39:14
  Speaker 12: were lacerations to his hand that have been wrapped in
• 39:17
  Speaker 12: a sort of makeshift bandage.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Are you injured at all, Chance? Beside?
• 39:21
  Speaker 18: Your finger?
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: Uh, just a.
• 39:23
  Speaker 6: Little stretched from the sutherd but your other named your.
• 39:26
  Speaker 18: Elaceration on this cant When did that happen during the attack? Okay?
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Police needed to check his car for any evidence. Good
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: side doors open, he's got gloves, Yeah, but it looks
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: like it.
• 39:45
  Speaker 17: Got any think anybud Nope, I hear nothing.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Nothing.
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: That's got twenty five bucks in won't talk here, okay.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Chances shoes and socks were covered in blood and taken
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: as evidence.
• 39:58
  Speaker 12: At that point, Chance donahoe was charged with murder and
• 40:01
  Speaker 12: he was taken to the Franklin County Jail.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Police went to Chance's mother's house to look for the
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: murder weapon.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: How are you mom? We have yeah, we went voluntarily. Okay,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: a man, is there a knife?
• 40:24
  Speaker 12: They went straight to the kitchen, checked the top of
• 40:27
  Speaker 12: the refrigerator, and there they found a blood covered knife
• 40:32
  Speaker 12: exactly where they'd asked him to put it.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Chance Donaho sat down with police to offer his explanation,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Why don't you just kind of.
• 40:47
  Speaker 16: Take me through yesterday, leading up to last night and today,
• 40:52
  Speaker 16: like what happened.
• 40:54
  Speaker 18: Me and Shannon are going to a really bad breakup
• 40:57
  Speaker 18: right now, right because I took advantage of her luck
• 41:02
  Speaker 18: and so we broke up, and she's been just like
• 41:06
  Speaker 18: making all these Facebook posts about like our breakup.
• 41:10
  Speaker 17: He's looking down. He doesn't sound upset or remorseful or shocked.
• 41:17
  Speaker 17: He he sounds almost victimy.
• 41:21
  Speaker 18: I'm unable to not steal and unable to not like
• 41:27
  Speaker 18: take advantage of people that are on.
• 41:29
  Speaker 16: Me, and it's like, uh, I couldn't help it kind
• 41:34
  Speaker 16: of behavior.
• 41:36
  Speaker 6: On my way home, I had like this weird thing
• 41:42
  Speaker 6: that was just like, well, if.
• 41:45
  Speaker 18: She wants you in it back and you can't get
• 41:46
  Speaker 18: her back, you can like take your life force and
• 41:54
  Speaker 18: then you'll be together forever.
• 41:58
  Speaker 16: Chances of admitting or acknowledge that he has some very
• 42:01
  Speaker 16: disturbed beliefs that are not connected with ordinary reality. There's
• 42:06
  Speaker 16: a disturbed way of thinking of possession that definitely points
• 42:09
  Speaker 16: to a psychotic thought process that if I can't have
• 42:13
  Speaker 16: what I want and told us take their life force. I, oftentimes,
• 42:17
  Speaker 16: whenever I'm experiencing episodes of psychosis, think that I'm a god.
• 42:25
  Speaker 16: These revealing snippets of his mental state, as if that
• 42:28
  Speaker 16: was the most natural thing in the world.
• 42:30
  Speaker 17: Clearly he's a disturbed young man.
• 42:34
  Speaker 18: I went home and I changed my clothes and no
• 42:37
  Speaker 18: hole black and I grabbed a knife and I went.
• 42:41
  Speaker 6: Over to her house. I slammed my chiuldern in too
• 42:48
  Speaker 6: the door. That didn't say anything. I didn't do anything.
• 42:51
  Speaker 18: I just started stabbing Shin And she didn't even realize
• 42:55
  Speaker 18: what was happening until I had stabbed her a couple
• 42:57
  Speaker 18: of times.
• 42:58
  Speaker 6: She said, are you kidding me? What the chance? Stop? Wait?
• 43:05
  Speaker 6: Please stop, I'm dying.
• 43:09
  Speaker 18: I love you, I love you, and then she didn't
• 43:12
  Speaker 18: speak another word.
• 43:16
  Speaker 16: To have an ex partner the stabbing you to death,
• 43:19
  Speaker 16: that's an unimaginable horror. It could just be a tremendous
• 43:27
  Speaker 16: desire for revenge and to get back. It could be
• 43:31
  Speaker 16: symbolically trying to silence her to kind of literally she
• 43:34
  Speaker 16: can't speak.
• 43:35
  Speaker 17: But either way, it's a very cold, cruel thing to do.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Almost a year after Shannon was murdered, Chance Donaho pled
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: guilty to murder.
• 43:51
  Speaker 12: In the trial, prosecutors said that Chance Donahoe killed Shannon
• 43:56
  Speaker 12: because he was jealous. He was angry. I knew she'd
• 44:00
  Speaker 12: posted about him on social media, which might have interfered
• 44:03
  Speaker 12: with his ability to date other women. He knew she
• 44:06
  Speaker 12: might be seeing someone else. Now. The murder, they said,
• 44:09
  Speaker 12: had nothing to do with anything he'd used as an excuse.
• 44:13
  Speaker 12: It was jealousy and it was revenge. In his defense,
• 44:17
  Speaker 12: Joans Donahoe told the court he had mental health problems
• 44:22
  Speaker 12: that hadn't been treated well, and that he had not
• 44:24
  Speaker 12: been taking his medication and that was the cause for
• 44:27
  Speaker 12: his behavior. But in the trial, prosecutors dismissed all of that.
• 44:31
  Speaker 12: They said the murder had nothing to do with his
• 44:33
  Speaker 12: mental health. It was a pure act of violence.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: At the sentencing, Chance spoke directly to Shannon's family.
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: I'm truly sorry for all the pain I had caused.
• 44:47
  Speaker 6: I wish I could take it back. I hope that
• 44:50
  Speaker 6: the verdict reached day serves justice for the loss I've
• 44:53
  Speaker 6: waited through.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Chance Donaho was sentenced to life in prison, with the
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: possibility of pearl after thirty one years.
• 45:07
  Speaker 16: Shannon's murder for me indicates that even if you are strong,
• 45:12
  Speaker 16: you have good boundaries. Even in doing all the right things,
• 45:15
  Speaker 16: were still very susceptible and vulnerable. It's sad but true
• 45:20
  Speaker 16: that there is no guarantees even if we do everything right,
• 45:23
  Speaker 16: we could still be the victim of a horrific murder.
• 45:26
  Speaker 17: It's really tragic.
• 45:29
  Speaker 12: I think Shannon's friends and family will remember her as
• 45:32
  Speaker 12: this bright, sunny presence, a lover of music, somebody who
• 45:37
  Speaker 12: devoted her spare time to rescuing stray cats and making
• 45:41
  Speaker 12: sure that they had a good life, who loved vulnerable creatures.
• 45:46
  Speaker 12: That I think is one of the things that really
• 45:49
  Speaker 12: marks her character. She was very loving in