Latest / European Society for Vascular Surgery / Introducing Kak Khee Yeung, incoming ESVS President

Transcript

Introducing Kak Khee Yeung, incoming ESVS President · European Society for Vascular Surgery

0:11
Hello and welcome to the ESVS podcast. I'm Suzanne
0:14
Stokmans and I'm delighted you're joining us
0:16
for this very special episode. Today I'm joined
0:18
by Professor Kak Khee Yeung, who is about to begin
0:20
her term as the next president of the European
0:22
Society of Vascular Surgery. In this episode,
0:25
we will talk about her work as a vascular surgeon
0:27
and scientist, and of course... about her ambitions
0:29
for the ESVS. But I would also like to take the
0:32
opportunity to get to know Kak Khee a little bit
0:34
personally. We will talk about the experiences
0:36
that have shaped her career, what continues to
0:39
inspire her and the kind of leadership she hopes
0:41
to bring into our society. Professor Yeung, it's
0:44
lovely to have you with us. Welcome. Thank you
0:46
so much. I'm happy to be here, Suzanne. And last
0:50
year you delivered your inaugural lecture as
0:52
professor of personalized therapy in vascular
0:54
surgery. It was a very personal story centered
0:57
around the idea that everyone is different. What
0:59
struck me was that rather than beginning with
1:01
science or clinical results, you began with Chinese
1:04
calligraphy. Why was that where you wanted to
1:06
start? So I wanted to start with a personal story.
1:11
And I want to also highlight my mentor, which
1:17
is my dad. Into the picture, he's a calligraphist,
1:21
actually my grandpa as well. And they are both
1:24
actually artists. And I think medicine, vascular
1:31
surgery is an art. And the nice thing about Chinese
1:35
signs and letters, They are built out of different
1:39
characters. So like, for example, listening.
1:44
Listening is a character that's not only by the
1:49
ear, but also by the heart and by the eye. So
1:54
you can see and feel and hear the persons and
1:58
the patients, for example. So that's why I wanted
2:01
to explain personalized therapy with Chinese
2:04
characters. And I wanted to start my story with
2:07
that. That's a beautiful story. Just like you
2:11
just said throughout your lecture, you described
2:12
how Chinese characters contain layers of meaning
2:15
and centuries of wisdom. It made me wonder whether
2:17
that's also how you look at medicine, that behind
2:19
every diagnosis, there's a much bigger story.
2:23
Yes, that's a very nice thought of you. I think
2:26
that everything should be in balance and also
2:29
your body and your mind. And I started also the
2:33
lecture with the sign yin -yang. And that means
2:36
that sometimes it's dark and sometimes it's light.
2:40
But if you're together, you're in balance. And
2:43
sickness and health, these are actually also
2:46
related to each other. So after every disease
2:50
and every sickness, there is a story to become
2:55
healthy, of course. a balance inside you. So
2:59
I think that's very important in medicine and
3:02
also through life, that you find a balance where
3:05
you feel right and good about yourself. And the
3:08
central message you shared is everyone is different.
3:10
It's such a simple sentence, but it feels like
3:13
the foundation of everything you do. When did
3:15
you realize that medicine isn't really about
3:16
the disease, but about individuals? I was always
3:19
thinking like, why this one aneurysm rupture
3:22
and the other not? So that's one side of the
3:25
disease story. But also, why do people look different?
3:29
And I have traveled through a lot of hospitals.
3:32
I did my fellowship in Asia. I did my fellowship
3:35
in the US. And I've seen a lot of different patients.
3:40
And the outcome of every patient is different.
3:42
But also during surgery, the structure. of a
3:46
Chinese patient, an Asian population, the adventitia
3:50
is much stronger. There are much more aortic
3:53
dissections there instead of aneurysms. So only
3:58
differences geographically and population -wise,
4:02
a disease is different. So that's why I think
4:06
that every disease is actually different and
4:09
every patient is different. And we should look
4:12
beyond actually only the imaging or the patient
4:15
characteristics that you're now noticing in your
4:18
electronic health records, but also to genomics,
4:21
proteomics, so what do people eat even, what
4:24
do people do during the day. So wearables should
4:28
also bring us some more information. And everything
4:32
all together brings a balance again or a total
4:37
balance of a patient, more like a holistic approach.
4:40
of how you see a patient. And I also think that
4:44
the outcomes that we are now looking at are very
4:47
surgical -like, so re -intervention, sacrogression,
4:52
endoleak, mortality, but not patient -like. So
4:59
what can they do during the day? What can they
5:01
eat during the day? What's their quality of life?
5:04
So I think... That is also something we need
5:07
to know before we treat our patients and we should
5:11
focus on that as well. So patient -centered focus
5:14
and when you design a research project, involving
5:18
patients is very important. And in your very
5:21
first year of medical school, Professor Willem
5:23
Wisseling gave a lecture about vascular surgery
5:25
and you say that you immediately knew this is
5:28
my field. What was it about vascular surgery
5:31
that made you think this is where I belong? Well,
5:34
actually, he was just a very charismatic man.
5:37
So he did his story about vascular surgery. It
5:40
was actually robotic surgery. And I like the
5:43
technical aspects of vascular surgery. So we
5:46
vascular surgeons... And not only doctors, but
5:49
also engineers. And I feel that every day. Like
5:52
if I have to do a fever or a beaver and I start
5:55
with planning it, I feel like an engineer. And
5:58
when he was giving the lecture, Willem Wisseling,
6:01
I was like, wow. I was amazed about the robotic
6:04
surgery, the detail that we could see through
6:08
the robots with 3D, right? And I was amazed by
6:12
that. It was really, truly amazing. I'm still...
6:15
Thinking about that lecture, it's always printed
6:18
in my mind. And I thought, yes, this is what
6:21
I want. I want to combine technical aspects,
6:24
some engineering aspects with medicine, and then
6:30
do something really for the patient. Surgery
6:34
is really, you do a surgery and then you have
6:36
an outcome. So it's really outcome perspectives
6:39
there, perspective focus, outcome focus. And
6:42
that's also something I really like. And it's
6:45
also why I like research. It's also very outcome
6:48
focused, but sometimes it's a very long -term
6:51
outcome. You have to be appreciative. And he
6:56
was really charismatic about that. And I admire
7:00
him by his ideas that he had. He also invented
7:05
the fenestrations in the 90s. And I did a lot
7:11
of in vitro studies with him. And then he was
7:13
also the first vascular surgeon that performed
7:16
robotic surgery in the orta. And yeah, he's really
7:19
a pioneer. And I really liked that. So, yeah,
7:23
I thought, yes, let's go after this lecture to
7:26
him and to see what he can offer me. It was more
7:31
like, can I learn from him? And my parents were
7:35
really happy that I found a mentor that wanted
7:39
to teach me things about medicine and vascular
7:42
surgery, not knowing that it's a very heavy profession.
7:49
And I started to do my PhD. Actually, I started
7:52
first to do research there, not really a PhD.
7:54
It was just a passion of mine to explore with
7:58
him the technical aspects and the innovations
8:00
that he had. It was not a paid research internship.
8:05
So it was all in my free time. You were really
8:09
young, right? I was really young. I was 19 years
8:11
old. I started also to do some animal studies.
8:18
I'm not proud of animal studies, but we started
8:20
with animals that were not used anymore. So we
8:23
called up the leftovers. And I was doing Juxerino
8:27
aortic aneurysm repair, simulation of an open
8:31
repair in these rats. But he didn't have any
8:34
time to teach me that. So I had to follow a plastic
8:38
surgery, microsurgery course. And I asked for
8:42
all the... actually instruments from the OR to
8:46
do surgery. And my parents had a Chinese restaurant
8:50
and they helped me by giving some of the OR personnel
8:54
free food and all kinds of things that we tried
9:01
to thank the community helping me to do this
9:04
research because there was no budget. Amazing.
9:09
So when I listen to you, I get the sense that
9:11
curiosity has really been the thread running
9:13
through your whole career. It started with discovering
9:15
vascular surgery as a medical student, and then
9:18
you started to do your research and you've been
9:20
very driven by your research ever since. And
9:22
for many years, you've been trying to understand
9:24
why patients in what looks like the same aneurysm
9:27
can have such different outcome like you just
9:29
told us. Can you tell us a bit more about your
9:31
research and what keeps drawing you back to aneurysm
9:34
biology? Well, I was really amazed that not many
9:38
people do basic science in aneurysm pathology.
9:43
And especially the problem is that we vascular
9:46
surgeons want to do surgery. I mean, if we are
9:49
in the OR, we are happy, you know, and otherwise
9:51
we're doing outpatient clinics. So there's not
9:53
much focus on the biology and understanding the
9:57
disease. And it's not only the curiosity, but
10:00
also I just feel like a nagging. thing in my
10:04
body that I cannot tell my patient the exact
10:08
truth about the aneurysm. Like, is it going to
10:11
rupture? I don't know if it's going to rupture,
10:13
yes or no. But because of old epidemiology, logical
10:18
studies, we think it's going to rupture with,
10:20
you know, with this percentage, 5 % that an aneurysm
10:25
of 6 or 7 centimeters. So it is like a really
10:29
a guess, a guessing. And that guessing story,
10:33
and while you sometimes lose patients on your
10:36
way because they died during surgery or they
10:39
really truly ruptured, it's just not a good feeling.
10:42
So if you're a doctor, and I always tell my interns
10:46
as well, you want to be 100 % sure of your story.
10:50
You want to be sure about this is the best therapy.
10:53
That's why I do research. I want to offer them
10:56
the best therapy there is from the best knowledge
11:00
that we have. And I'm seeking for the truth about
11:04
aneurysm biology. And it is not solved yet because
11:09
I think we didn't have the power. We didn't have
11:12
the data. We didn't have the supercomputing power.
11:15
And our brain was just always looking to one
11:17
image and then making a diameter measurement
11:22
and then say, yes, we are going to do a surgery.
11:25
Yes or no. And then a little bit of a feeling
11:26
and patient characteristics, but not a real true.
11:31
looking into the biology, looking into the proteomics,
11:34
genomics, how it has been grown in the history
11:38
and so on. So this is the area of time that we
11:42
have supercomputing powers to learn us more about
11:46
aneurysms and dissections and also peripheral
11:50
artery diseases, actually a lot of vascular diseases.
11:53
And we vascular surgeons have the obligation
11:56
to do the research because No one else is going
11:59
to do it because who is seeing these patients
12:01
with aneurysms? No one. They come to our outpatient
12:05
clinic. So I want to actually ask people to do
12:11
more research in aneurysms, not to be competitive,
12:14
but to collaborate with each other and to find
12:18
the truth about these aneurysms. When you talk
12:22
about supercomputer power, I think you're talking
12:24
about AI, which has been one of the tools you've
12:28
added to your research in the past years. And
12:31
it's everywhere at the moment. Every conference
12:33
has sessions on AI. Every journal seems to publish
12:35
on AI. What do you think AI can realistically
12:38
add to vascular surgery? And where do you think
12:40
perhaps we get a little too carried away? So
12:44
around, I think, 12 years ago, I already started
12:49
with... Thinking of AI and how to combine these
12:52
multi -model parameters to a statistical prediction
12:57
model. And that's where AI came into vascular
13:02
surgery. I think for now we can use automatic
13:06
segmentation, better visualization of your CT
13:10
scans, MR or ultrasound with AI. So these are
13:13
directly applicable just to help the human eye
13:16
to make better measurements. on dissections or
13:20
aneurysms? Have they really grown? Have they
13:23
really changed their shape? Has the thrombus
13:26
load been changing or volume? Because volume,
13:29
our eyes cannot measure volume. We can measure
13:31
diameter. So these are... Things that AI directly
13:35
can help and implement. For prediction tools,
13:38
so predict if the animal is going to grow or
13:40
rupture in time or the patient die of other cardiovascular
13:43
diseases, it's always a risk. You're not predicting
13:46
rupture, you're predicting a high risk of rupture.
13:49
Because like Jan Blankenstein, my other mentor
13:52
says, you cannot predict anything. It's a law
13:55
of... of quantum theory. So you cannot predict.
14:00
I said, that's true. We can make a better estimation
14:03
in the future. So that's what we do with AI.
14:06
And it's going to be a clinical support tool.
14:10
So it's not going to be a chat GPT and directly
14:15
says, this you have to do and then you're going
14:17
to do it. Following the European AI Act, it's
14:21
going to be a supporting tool that needs human
14:23
oversights. There will be an advice based on
14:26
guidelines and prediction tools that we make.
14:29
And then you still have to discuss it with the
14:32
patient. And we with AI have the responsibility
14:37
to make it more understandable for the vascular
14:40
surgeons. So what is the prediction built of?
14:44
So is it the diameter? Is it the volume? So we
14:49
will show like why would we come to this prediction?
14:53
And then you still have to think in your head
14:56
like, okay, the AI is right or not right. And
15:01
when do you think these prediction models can
15:03
be used in our outpatient clinic? I think soon.
15:06
So now for aneurysms, we have collected over
15:09
40 ,000 patients or 30 ,000 patients, sorry,
15:12
and segmentations of imaging and clinical parameters.
15:17
We can do that already now in the clinic. It's
15:20
a pretty good prediction tool. And with the Vasculate
15:25
platform, we will make it open access at one
15:28
point. We are still busy building the platform.
15:32
But I think that's going to be very soon. We
15:35
are doing the validation now. The Vasculate project
15:37
is still another three years of my European Horizon
15:40
project for validating. if it's really going
15:44
to happen in the future when we follow these
15:48
patients up for three to four years, because
15:50
we currently have included now 350 patients,
15:55
so over one third, and still have a year in inclusion
16:00
and then three to four years follow up. Okay.
16:05
Well, I'm very excited for the future. Yeah.
16:07
And in the beginning of your inaugural lecture,
16:10
you said everyone is different, but together
16:12
we form a whole. It struck me that this could
16:14
almost be the motto for the ESVS. We all come
16:17
from different countries, different healthcare
16:19
systems, different backgrounds. Is bringing those
16:22
people together also how you see your presidency?
16:25
Yes. And to remind us that we're all doing the
16:28
same thing for our patients. So we treat the
16:31
same vascular disease and the same patient. So
16:35
actually, Indeed, we have different approaches,
16:39
resources probably as well. But together, we
16:45
are treating actually the vascular community.
16:47
And that is how I see my presidency. And that's
16:51
also where I want to focus on. And when you became
16:54
a professor, your responsibility was primarily
16:56
towards your own patients, your research group
16:58
and your institution. As president of the ESVS,
17:01
your responsibility suddenly extends to hundreds
17:04
of vascular surgeons across Europe. Does that
17:06
change the way you think about leadership? Well,
17:09
in the research, I already had my vascular European
17:12
consortium, Vasculate, so it was already European
17:15
based. But now I think to understand what's happening
17:20
in Europe, but also beyond Europe, because we
17:22
have also countries that are allied to the ESVS,
17:26
like Japan and Australia. And like I said, the
17:30
center of our focus is the vascular patient.
17:34
And if we are not treating these patients, no
17:38
one will. So they are not in vascular medicine.
17:41
Cardiology doesn't see them. They actually miss
17:43
them. So 10 % of patients that receive a TAVI
17:48
also have an aneurysm, but they just forget to
17:52
refer the patients to us. So I guess that's a
17:55
problem. And it's cardiovascular disease. And
17:58
now I see that a lot of things in Europe are
18:01
focused on cardiology, like grants. The ESC is
18:05
super big. But remind us that we vascular surgeons
18:09
are very important and we form indeed a whole,
18:12
but we treat a lot of different vascular diseases.
18:15
We have venous, we have arterial, and we also
18:19
have other syndromes like thoracic outlet syndromes
18:22
and so on. So we have a very, very large community.
18:26
And the populations of vascular patients is super
18:31
big. Only peripheral arterial diseases, 5 % of
18:34
patients above 25 years, have peripheral arterial
18:38
disease. And I always say to the cardiologists,
18:41
it starts in the smallest vessels, which is in
18:44
the foot. If people cannot walk anymore and so
18:47
on, one third of these patients will get cardiac
18:51
problems. So screening and helping these patients
18:55
and treating them better is our responsibility
18:57
as a vascular surgeon. And I think we need to
19:00
unite and think as ourselves, super important.
19:04
for these vascular patients. That's my message
19:06
for the ESVS. Okay, great. Well, that's a great
19:10
message. And whenever you get asked about your
19:14
achievements, you rarely talk about yourself.
19:16
You talk about your teams. And why is teamwork
19:18
such a central team for you? I think I'm just
19:22
not smart enough to have every knowledge of every
19:26
field. So in AI, for example, Hjalmar Wolterink
19:32
is an AI expert where we work together with him.
19:34
He is a truly mathematician. And I wished I was
19:37
a really true mathematician, but I'm not. I'm
19:41
a Vasco surgeon. I did some data science. I did
19:44
some, you know, I need to, of course, know what
19:48
people write down about the algorithms and so
19:50
on. And I need to think about artificial intelligence,
19:55
how it works. But going into detail and making
19:59
these algorithms, you really need someone else.
20:02
And also making large language models. And we
20:06
have to learn from other sectors. So like my
20:08
computer scientist, who does the automatic data
20:11
extraction, comes from a company world. So it
20:14
doesn't come from healthcare. It comes from a
20:18
totally other world. But he said, oh, we already
20:20
implemented that for administrative reasons.
20:23
I'm like, oh, yeah, then. You can try it also
20:26
in the healthcare system. So there's a lot of
20:30
knowledge out there that we don't know. And if
20:33
we can bring it all together, like in a multidisciplinary
20:36
team, we will be super strong. And like I said,
20:40
vascular surgery is a big field and we are engineers.
20:44
So that's why we need some mathematicians in
20:48
our team to think about it. But we don't understand
20:52
the biology, so I need biologists. I need people
20:55
that also study omics and genes much more detailed
21:00
way than I do. So we have innovations in every
21:04
field into vascular surgery. And otherwise, we
21:07
will still do a little bit of AI, a little bit
21:10
of biology, but not going into detail. And now
21:14
we make the strongest and the best algorithms
21:18
in vascular surgery. And I can say they're even
21:22
better than the image processing in the heart.
21:25
And that's because we have a truly mathematician
21:28
in our team. So teamwork is super central. I'm
21:32
not going to solve this problem by myself. I
21:34
think we need everyone. So the whole ESVS and
21:38
vascular surgery. And personalized medicine means
21:41
that we need to know every patient almost. So
21:45
we need to work together to form this big data.
21:49
This all sounds very, very excited. All the stuff
21:52
that you're working on and the team you're working
21:54
with. It's amazing. One thing the ESVS does incredibly
21:57
well is investing in young vascular surgeons
22:00
and residents. If you could change one thing
22:03
for the next generation during your presidency,
22:05
what would it be? I would say for the next generation,
22:08
I won't say changing, but I would say that try
22:15
to keep your passion. as a vascular surgeon,
22:19
because now I can see that young vascular surgeons,
22:24
the next generation will be dealing with artificial
22:29
intelligence, will be dealing with data, will
22:31
be dealing with a lot of side projects. But just
22:38
let the vascular patient stay in your heart.
22:41
Just know like, okay, why am I doing this? For
22:45
who am I doing this? And keep your passion that
22:48
you're a true doctor in your heart. I think that's
22:52
the most important thing, that you always have
22:54
the passion that you treat the patients and give
22:57
them the best care. And for the next generation,
23:00
I would say also try to collaborate, try to make
23:04
consortia, try to solve a vascular disease problem
23:09
together and not by yourself. Everyone now speaks
23:14
English. If not, then you can use AI translations.
23:19
Try to work together. Because the generations
23:23
before me were mostly one PI or whatever. But
23:27
now try to do it all together. Don't be selfish.
23:30
and try to get patients into the design of your
23:34
research projects. When we talk about a little
23:36
bit of a different subject, it's something that
23:38
I've always appreciated about you, is that you
23:40
never really seem to fit the stereotype of what
23:43
people sometimes expect for a vascular surgeon
23:45
or a scientist to be. You've always had your
23:48
own style, your own interests, and you've always
23:50
seemed comfortable being yourself. I actually
23:52
think that encouraged more people than you probably
23:54
realize, including me, to feel that you don't
23:57
have to fit a particular mold to belong in our
23:59
profession. Has being authentic always come natural
24:02
to you or is that something that you've grown
24:04
into over the years? I was always authentic,
24:06
I have to say. And the strength is to believe
24:10
in yourself and your strength, what you have
24:12
to offer. And I indeed don't really care about
24:16
what people think or say about me. And it doesn't
24:20
have to do something about self -confidence,
24:22
but it has to do with how you feel grounded with
24:25
yourself. I feel that I truly believe in what
24:31
I can do and what I can wear doesn't say anything
24:36
about who I am. However, it also expresses something
24:40
about how I am. I always say like, If I look
24:43
good in the mirror, I feel much better. So I
24:46
like to dress up before I go to work or to a
24:49
conference. It also gives you a feeling that
24:52
you care about the conference or you care about
24:55
how you look like. If you care about yourself,
24:57
then you also care about others, I think. So
25:00
self -love is super important. And during my
25:05
residency, definitely people tried to fit me
25:11
in a box. Oh, do you have to wear this? Oh, because
25:15
I'm Chinese, I have Chinese eyes. The expression
25:19
sometimes comes out differently. So they thought
25:22
I lack empathy or something. And then there was
25:26
a coaching project that they offered me to go
25:30
to. I said, yeah, sure. I always want to work
25:32
on myself. So let's go. And then I discovered,
25:36
yeah, maybe you don't have to fit in. You just
25:40
adjust a little bit that everyone works well
25:44
along each other or with each other. But it's
25:48
better to stay yourself because if you adjust
25:51
too much, you lose yourself and then you're not
25:54
happy. And it's better, like I said, in a multidisciplinary
25:57
team, you need different characters, you need
26:00
different views, you need different people to
26:03
make the team better. If everyone thinks the
26:05
same way, then yeah. You never. have a change.
26:11
And no change means no progression. The ESVS
26:15
had many distinguished presidents over the years.
26:17
You're only the second woman to lead the society
26:19
following Professor Alison Holliday in 2018.
26:22
Whether you see yourself as a role model or not,
26:24
many young vascular surgeons will see someone
26:26
that they can identify with. Has that become
26:28
something you're more aware of over the years?
26:31
That's still difficult for me to see myself as
26:34
a role model. I see the ESVS presidency also
26:37
as a function. You know, that's why you can apply
26:41
everyone can apply if you think you have something
26:43
to offer if you have something to change if you
26:46
want to not change but you want to stay connected
26:50
with standardization of education or other podcasts
26:54
or the communication if you have something to
26:57
offer and you think you can lead the community
27:00
then and you have something to offer the community
27:03
as well Yeah, you can also be the president.
27:07
You have to think about it's a function. It's
27:11
like the professorship. I got the full professorship
27:16
and people say, now it starts. No, it already
27:19
started 100 years ago, for example. You're actually
27:24
doing the same, but you get a little bit, indeed,
27:27
more responsibility, more people seeing you and
27:31
you get a, yeah, you... become a role model as
27:35
a full professor, but also as an ESVS president.
27:39
But like I said, you also have to see it as a
27:41
function. What do you have to bring to the community?
27:44
What are you going to do? I see it really as
27:46
work. I have something to do. It's not a title,
27:49
but I really have to do something. And that's
27:53
how I strongly feel about it. And I encourage
27:56
every person to apply. It doesn't matter how
28:01
old you are, how young or how old you are. It
28:04
doesn't matter. So the lifespan of when you can
28:07
bring something can be very young, but can also
28:10
be very old. And when you're of older age, you
28:13
have a lot of experience. When you're younger,
28:15
you might bring some change. Yeah, you can think
28:19
of that. And also for females as well. Is this
28:22
the right timing? Are my kids going to school
28:26
now? Can I leave home now a little bit more?
28:29
Because you have to travel. And then you can
28:31
also think, okay, this is my year I'm going to
28:34
apply. And you learn also a lot in the EXCO.
28:37
You're not alone. You're first shadowing a few
28:39
years. So coming into it, you also grow into
28:42
the role. So this is also an invitation for...
28:44
Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Don't be afraid. Believe
28:49
in yourself and think of what kind of change
28:52
that you can bring or what kind of qualities
28:54
that you have that you can bring. And everyone
28:57
here has quality because you're already a vascular
29:00
surgeon. And you have been through a lot of hurdles
29:04
to become a vascular surgeon. So this is not
29:07
a hurdle. This is just a commitment to the society
29:10
that you bring. So it's a celebration as well.
29:15
I would invite everyone to do it. Before we finish,
29:18
I have one last question. If we were sitting
29:19
here again at the end of your presidency, what
29:22
would you hope the society would look like? I
29:24
hope that we put the patient in a central role.
29:28
So my presidential year, I will focus on getting
29:32
more patients involved in guidelines, developments,
29:35
in patient tracks, perspectives, in projects
29:40
that we have. We do have that already in the
29:43
academy. We use patients already for the ultrasound
29:45
courses. But really, you know, involve patients
29:49
and try to understand what they think. And also
29:52
to unite more clinicians together. We have 3
29:56
,550 members, but could be much more. And I have
30:00
the feeling that some people think, like, why
30:02
should I be a member of the society? Well, you
30:05
should be a member of society because we are
30:07
all together doing this and bringing us further.
30:11
So we have to share data. We have to... Think
30:14
of the guidelines, are they aligned yes or no?
30:17
Are we using the same data sets? Are we using
30:19
the same guidelines? So standardization can only
30:22
be possible if everyone is a member. And next
30:25
to that, I want to create, and I hope there will
30:27
be at the end of my presidency, a lot more awareness
30:30
at the European Union about the vascular diseases.
30:33
I'm advocating for our vascular diseases in the
30:37
European Commission. It's super important because
30:41
that's where the cardiovascular budget is made.
30:45
Your reimbursement, your grants, the research
30:47
that you can do for our vascular patients. So
30:50
we create and we need to create more awareness.
30:53
And we only can create it if we're all together.
30:56
So we need more members, that's one. And second,
30:58
if we have patients involved. And with all that,
31:01
we have a large, loud voice, how important vascular
31:06
diseases are, and we try to solve it together.
31:09
Well, thank you. I've really enjoyed our conversation.
31:11
It's been a pleasure getting to know you a little
31:13
better beyond the papers and presentations that
31:15
many of us know you from. I wish you every success
31:17
over the next year. And I'm looking forward to
31:19
seeing your ideas come to life within the ESVS.
31:22
Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank
31:24
you.