Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / Country Boy from Thayer sells Bank for $400 million- ends up in prison- Shaun Hayes

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Country Boy from Thayer sells Bank for $400 million- ends up in prison- Shaun Hayes · Nightmare Success In and Out

• 0:01
  What happens when he works here? Becomes your reality.
• 0:04
  Hi. I'm Brian Cassidy.
• 0:05
  Welcome to the nightmare. Success in and out podcast,
• 0:08
  where we explore a, how to overcome your fears.
• 0:10
  And Nightmares is set yourself free.
• 0:13
  We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
• 0:15
  Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
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  These stories can be inspiring. Sometimes sad, there's some
• 0:24
  humor but hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something
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  that will help you knock down some of the prisons.
• 0:29
  You Built up in your own mind. Folks were back.
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  And I know that everybody likes a good story about a small town
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  boy, that makes good and I've got him here today.
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  So Sean Hayes was, he was small-town boy from Thayer
• 0:49
  Missouri and he had a goal and his goal was to be a
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  millionaire. At the age of 29, he bought his
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  first back, he was a CEO of a large bank at 32 ran, a public
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  company at 35, sold the bank for a half a billion dollars at 44.
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  And then something happened because his goal was to be a
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  millionaire and now here he was. What was he going to do?
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  He lost Direction, he got a five-year prison sentence for
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  bank fraud. Now he's making his comeback
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  he's got a new book that's coming out, it's called the
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  great choice. He was nice enough to let me
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  read that this weekend's a great book.
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  It's coming out February 7th so I'm not sure I'll ask him about
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  if you can pre-order. Do those type of things.
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  But he's doing some professional speaking and man he's got a
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  wealth of knowledge of all the different things that he's been
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  through his journey. And on top of that, he spent
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  some time with my old man at Marion prison and will probably
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  get into that. We're going to unpack all this.
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  Can't wait to get into it. Welcome, Sean Hayes.
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  And when you talk about your worst fears and I wrote to
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  dedications in the book, in the one we didn't choose was the
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  same seldom in life, do you reach your greatest dreams?
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  Or do you realize your worst fears?
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  Mmm? But I can honestly say I've done
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  both. So I'm both lived it both ways
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  and I'm touched to be here. So, thank you.
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  Well, I've been very I really looking forward to this
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  interview because you know, there's so many stories that you
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  Are in your book. Sean that are life lessons and,
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  you know, can you tell you, walk us back a little bit that boy
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  growing up in there. Give us a little bit of flavor
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  of what that was like. Well, you know, it's interesting
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  because it was a, I call it an SMS, a of about 3,000 because
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  the Arkansas state line was literally across the street.
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  But, you know, my parents always give you the feeling you could
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  do anything, it was nothing in life.
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  You can do if you put your mind. Into it.
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  And so in a small town, there was nothing to do in those days
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  but play sports. Yeah.
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  And so when I, you know, I look back in life, I had just some
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  wonderful mentors that were teachers and coaches and no one
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  ever told you you couldn't now we weren't that good but you
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  know we had fun in those those early successes in the fact that
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  you knew everyone you couldn't go anywhere in a town like that,
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  how big was it? How big welfare was 2002.
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  It was Spring, Arkansas was about a thousand that's why I
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  called the SMS a but It was just, it was a great place to
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  grow up in a great time and I graduate high school in 78.
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  So the late 60s and into the 70s and it was kind of The Wonder
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  Years. Yeah.
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  It was, it was, it was a little bit of Mayberry and but they're,
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  you know, we always talk about there was any public destruction
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  of property or anything because you knew everybody.
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  And this is something that that most people don't realize
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  because I live in st. Louis and now then I see deer
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  carcasses on every Highway and a lot of them and a lot of
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  numbers. From and where I was from, I
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  told somebody few weeks, I said you would never see that and
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  they said, why is it that was the red meat, mmm, because deer
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  season and then anything that happened, and that's what people
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  ate. Sure.
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  And this gives you an idea. So that forth are they would let
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  the school kids hunt the week of deer season.
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  The first week, if no property was damaged and either three
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  schools during Halloween and sent if you got it.
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  But that's how small the town is Sophie paper enough.
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  And just, you get to hunt next week, if you don't.
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  Anything like that. But I have to tell you one more
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  small town story that you can relate to.
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  So I was a freshman at Mizzou and I met this beautiful Stevens
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  girl from Wisconsin and I said, write me a letter and she was
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  okay. What's right is I said you just
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  right Shawn 6 5 7, 9 11 and I'll get it.
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  And I did, is that crazy. Well, that's the benefit of
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  being a small town. It is wonderful, place to grow
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  up. So tell me that you're telling a
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  little bit about your parents and siblings and what, how is
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  that world? Well, it, I had crazy parents.
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  Yeah, they were depression children.
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  My father's family lost everything, and my mother's
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  family didn't know. There was a depression.
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  And literally they didn't and, you know, just one of those
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  things where yeah, and they were, they were like that.
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  And had interesting War years and my dad had a lot of
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  siblings. My mom had none.
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  So all these kind of things you get to grow up with with aunts
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  and uncles, and was no one. But after the war, they moved,
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  basically, from New York City to Fair Missouri.
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  Wow. That mainly, because they grown
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  up of about 100 miles away in two different small towns and
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  because of my grandfather's Lumber business, it was a rails
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  town and so it was logical to go that sense.
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  They had, I have an older sister, he's 13 years older, and
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  so everybody in my family had gone to college and where I went
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  to high school and well actually backed on.
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  Let's go and I didn't know, you didn't go to college because
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  that was just what you knew, right?
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  And you knowing spring feel very well My dad, and my sister want
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  to dream and my mom went to what's now.
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  I guess Missouri State in those days, she called SMS Teachers
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  College in her day, right? Right.
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  But they were very entrepreneurial, they had a
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  furniture store or hardware store a motel, a restaurant.
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  Do you think, do you think that Sean, I was reading that your
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  book and the different things that they had, you know, between
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  the motel and the restaurant that did you see that?
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  And think, oh, okay. That's what I need to do is
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  figure out. How to go after a business run a
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  business because you were brought up not knowing any
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  different. I wouldn't think I mean your mom
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  and dad just did that right. Actually there's a there's about
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  a 30 year olds study that was paid for by the Kauffman
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  Foundation that looked at entrepreneurs and they were
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  trying to find what the telling thing, the common link and
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  you'll get this because it fits you as well.
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  The 1993 or for 70% of all entrepreneurs.
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  Fathers did not get what they quoted as a regular paycheck.
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  Hmm, you know. And that was like, and I
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  believe, now it's father our mother, their much sure, much
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  different world, 30 years later. Yeah.
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  And that's why my parents were interesting.
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  I went to Mizzou to undergraduate, you're going to
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  laughing. I didn't know how to cash a
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  check, right? I went to the bookstore and they
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  did and they said I said, only thinks they told me I had to do.
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  So I called the bank because My checks had no account number and
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  I couldn't fill out the form. So I called the bank and they
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  said, Sean, just make up some numbers, okay?
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  And that's what I did was I wrote down to, you know, who
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  really made us and numbers on the bottom of your check will
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  not. And I did that.
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  And I went over and they said, well cash, your check and that's
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  what a small towns like, you know, very, very different.
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  But they, they had are interesting characters of they.
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  They hated Banks. And so, I was actually a very
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  big disappointment for not. I bet that was, I did go to law
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  school. So hey, thanks.
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  And then here you are. Yeah.
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  My dad said in those days of boatman's, bank was the first
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  national West Plains which became a center Bank of America.
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  They had so much faith in him. We need to borrow fifty two
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  thousand dollars in 1950 that they kept to in the boatman's
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  National Bank of st. Louis let him the other 50 and
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  the other thing they did not like was the IRS.
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  Yeah. And I mentioned that the book
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  but we literally had three safe full of cash.
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  Other reason why never catch a checklist when you.
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  Yeah, you said my mom have a few thousand dollars in her shoes
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  and her closet. Forget that he's my dad always
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  had. A few thousand his pocket.
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  And so you needed money. I need some money and then I was
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  very industrious and I always had some kind of today.
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  The term is side hustle. Yeah.
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  And I in my day it was just, you just hustled, he want to make
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  money, I think he's so cuz you've got some stories in your
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  book and I thought one of them that was and I think you kind of
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  stayed in the the business a little bit after that.
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  But can you tell your fireworks store?
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  Well, it was a summer of Haiti and I'd made a lot of money that
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  year before and he bailing business but that was a year
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  that diesel fuel. Through the roof, baling twine.
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  And there was going to be money made.
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  So I had been working at a will call it a mall that would be a
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  generous saying it was Plains of my, my cousin's wife's gift shop
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  which I wouldn't get paid number one, and number two, I was about
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  bored stiff because a gift shop in a town of 5,000, undo a lot.
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  And my dad said, are you going to get a real job?
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  And so I thought for about an hour and a half or two and I
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  said, wait a minute mr. Dahl runs the, we have volunteer
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  fire department. He runs a huge fireworks.
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  Andthey're. People would come for 30, 40
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  miles away, Brent to the fireworks, the fireworks after
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  the baseball game and since always played baseball, I saw
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  that. And for you all that don't
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  realize you had to go 80 miles to there's McDonald's.
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  You had to go, we had a theater of one theater.
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  Most people had to go 25 or more miles to the theater.
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  Just give you a perspective. So I call my shirt off and I
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  told him, I wasn't course he knew and I said, what are you
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  get the fireworks and he said Arnold fireworks.
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  Well, in those days you had information.
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  So I down one 150, 155. Five.
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  One, two, one, two, I need the number for Arnold fireworks.
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  Got it turned round dial it again, and it will lady answer
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  the phone. I said he would like to meet the
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  owner and she goes, well, I am the owner, my husband died, a
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  few years ago and I said, well, this is my name and I'm in,
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  ther, Missouri, and I want to buy some fireworks.
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  And she was what you did. I said, well, there's a problem.
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  I'll be money continued consign them to meet you.
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  I love this. What do you get the better?
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  So she says, of course I can sign and he and I said and she
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  wasn't by the way, if you mail me a registered letter by the
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  six. Of July with full payment, I'll
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  give you an extra 2% off. That's of course I did that
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  course. We had one problem.
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  Brandon, it was after June 15th was like June 16th.
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  You have to have your order in to where we can ship them to you
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  before. June 15th, you have to come and
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  get him. Well, we had a lot of trucks.
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  I said no problem by the way. This is a mantra for us.
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  Entrepreneurs, in life, I get in the truck and I drive to Little
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  Rock and I load them up and it rained all the way back.
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  And it's I would stop under underpass overpasses and Just
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  anything in the world, well, because they were wet.
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  I've laid them out to where they, you know, the boxes would
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  dry up. Yeah.
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  And I didn't, I didn't really know what to do and I couldn't
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  afford to shoot any, right? I knew what firecracker.
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  I mean, there are certain things a bottle rockets.
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  I knew what the sure, but you're not looking to get fireworks
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  wet. That would be one of the things
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  that you wouldn't want. One thing you don't want to do.
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  Well, my dad helped me build a stand.
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  We had the first access off limit access Highway, we owned
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  the building, but not the bar in it.
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  So in this bar, Parking lot. I had a fireworks stand, but it
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  was the first you couldn't sell fireworks in the city limits.
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  Now in the Arkansas side, there were fireworks stands because
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  that was different but still, they weren't a ceiling Thayer.
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  So then I went to the neighbors and they let me put for I hand
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  painted four by eight sheets of plywood, discount fireworks
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  ahead. Put them on the side of the
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  highway and then this is another thing.
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  I don't think you're old enough to remember one of these Morant
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  a mimeograph machine. Oh wow.
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  My best friend's mother was a secretary at the school.
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  Yeah. So I made up discount Rockets 99
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  Cents. And then I went to every
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  Saturday at Saturday, I went to every Supermarket for miles and
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  stuff them on the windshield and all of a sudden I'm in the
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  fireworks business, but the story I know you're looking
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  forward to because I you I was an all-conference lineman.
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  So I used to be a big kid and the guy that ran the grocery
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  store newest. Well, because the things that
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  you couldn't buy from the purveyors, it's in a truck in
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  once a week, you went to the grocery store.
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  We went frequently. He stopped by and he had a farm,
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  probably a couple Miles north of my fireworks stand, and he
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  pulled in his truck on evening. He said, I need to buy a
• 12:27
  fireworks. Well, he wanted this number
• 12:31
  three shell. Well rant, I had no clue what a
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  numbers here to show us how is selling fireworks, and only had
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  like five of them. So I sure wouldn't get a test
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  one and it might be wet on top of that.
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  Exactly. So he bought these things.
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  Well, a couple days later, he came back was still before the
• 12:45
  Fourth of July and he said Shawn, I would whip your butt if
• 12:49
  you weren't so big and I said, well, what's wrong sir?
• 12:52
  He goes well, Night, we had the family over the kids, we had a
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  great time shooting fireworks and I save that number three
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  shell for the end and he goes, you know, I served in military
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  goes, that's a mortar round. And well, these cattle, I can
• 13:05
  get through the fence, you know, because cows will run through
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  anything Cheryl that don't live in them.
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  And then pretending they all follow each other.
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  So they were chasing cattle till about 2:00 in the morning.
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  But it was a great thing because my fraternity brothers would get
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  a job and those days minimum wage was 220.
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  Mmm! And I got it down to where those
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  Summers and then after I got out of college actually took my
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  vacation, I can make twenty thousand dollars have a great
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  son Dan and read a ton of books because you're out there for
• 13:33
  three weeks. But the first 16 17 days, you're
• 13:37
  really just working on your suntan and that's a good plan
• 13:41
  right there. So, that was, that was my
• 13:43
  fireworks business. Well, and you stayed in it for a
• 13:45
  little while, didn't I? Did I have to when I got out of
• 13:47
  college, I went to work for you and be in Kansas City and my you
• 13:52
  got. I only got One week vacation so
• 13:54
  I call my cousin if I said hey I got this fireworks and he's
• 13:56
  about 10 years older and a far more entrepreneurial either than
• 13:59
  I am. And I said Johnny, if you'll
• 14:01
  open it up for two weeks, I'll come down the week of the fourth
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  type of vacation. It's we did, we split 20 grand,
• 14:06
  we that's awesome piece. Yeah.
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  It was just good money. That's a lot of money back and
• 14:10
  it's a lot of money, but there's a lot of money back in those
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  days was. Well, that's what put me in the
• 14:13
  loan. Sharking business.
• 14:14
  Well, let's talk about that. So, I mean Universe, Missouri is
• 14:17
  a big school and I and any time you go the college.
• 14:21
  There is that guy. And you were that guy, how did
• 14:25
  this happen? Well and by the way, I didn't,
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  you know, and this goes back to really a lot of my life.
• 14:30
  I've lived in the gray, I didn't know, part of what I was doing
• 14:32
  was illegal. I first started out as I had a
• 14:36
  lot of wealthy fraternity, Brothers, mainly journalism
• 14:38
  students from all over the country.
• 14:39
  Hmm, it will come to Mizzou and they would come in.
• 14:42
  And in those days you took dates to football games, and you wore
• 14:45
  suits and all kinds of it was a whole different culture.
• 14:48
  And they come by on Friday and say, hey Sean, I need 200 bucks
• 14:51
  a week and I got a date tonight. I got this You can and I don't
• 14:54
  have any money and I'd say no problem and I'd write him a
• 14:57
  check for $200 and they'd write me a check for 220.
• 15:01
  Brandt, there it is. I don't know.
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  This is where it got really fun. You can't do this anymore and I
• 15:06
  didn't know what I was doing was illegal actually taught a couple
• 15:08
  years later when I moved up in the business school but I would
• 15:12
  run to the post office at night and put it in the mail, didn't
• 15:14
  go out to like 10:00 and I'd mail it to our bank which was in
• 15:17
  Mammoth Spring Arkansas across the state line.
• 15:19
  Well it would get the Thayer like on Tuesday.
• 15:22
  They Is it with that kid would stuff in his pocket.
• 15:25
  He go to East, Jake guy, IGA cash a check for a hundred and
• 15:29
  get his cash. And then on Monday or Tuesday
• 15:31
  he'd show up at the local bank and put my check-in.
• 15:34
  Well I'd he's checking cleared my bank, his parents money would
• 15:37
  come in and I was running you know like a twenty thirty
• 15:41
  thousand dollar kite-making you know, four five six hundred
• 15:45
  dollars a week, you know, and then I got Industrials.
• 15:49
  We had there was a bookie out of st.
• 15:51
  Charles that. That's nephew.
• 15:53
  Our fraternity. And so we had a lot of
• 15:56
  Statistics in those days of business.
• 15:57
  Going, our guys thought they were really smart, he had one
• 16:00
  problem with her Theory, they thought it was random.
• 16:03
  The problem was they weren't flipping a coin and actually in
• 16:06
  prison, I prove this to, your father will come back to that
• 16:09
  and they were picking the team's.
• 16:11
  Well once you pick the team's, it's not random sure sir.
• 16:15
  So, in the weekly pool in Marion, your dad would pick the
• 16:17
  teams and I'd take a coin and we put head sales and I would beat
• 16:20
  him every week on the flip, on the flip, because the flip wins.
• 16:23
  And well, these guys would bet $100 on the noon 1:00 college
• 16:27
  game. If they lost a bet 200 and those
• 16:29
  days, you had to play a peck eight game in the uni via
• 16:32
  because you couldn't information didn't flow if you lost a bet,
• 16:35
  200 on a, on a noon, Sunday game, if they lost game one day,
• 16:40
  100 now, they could Betty, she'll catch the afternoon,
• 16:42
  they'll tell you. And if they lost a bet 800 and
• 16:45
  then if they lost that, they needed money because the book he
• 16:47
  came to town on Tuesday. Sure.
• 16:48
  So I would, I'd float him a check and that went really well
• 16:53
  and I I was making a ton of money until--.
• 16:57
  Hi, I had a fraternity brother from Kabul.
• 16:59
  It was in to the bookie for about 4,500 which mean he owed
• 17:02
  me 50 and it was actually Thanksgiving break and so I kept
• 17:08
  calling because I had to cover that check and I had by this
• 17:11
  time I had gone to the DU and he'd given me cash.
• 17:15
  I had my own cash, I had a KD, she gave me cash, I kind of
• 17:17
  built a little bank and I couldn't afford to lose forty
• 17:21
  five hundred dollars because I would have to allocate tonight.
• 17:22
  Yeah and so what happened was He said we'll meet me in Willow
• 17:28
  Springs and we met at this truck.
• 17:29
  Stop. And it was his dad, his brothers
• 17:32
  and they were going to, they were going to, they going to
• 17:33
  whip on me and I had a girl with me and I said, okay guys, you
• 17:36
  can, you can whip me, but here's what I want to tell you.
• 17:38
  Do you know what your son's doing?
• 17:40
  And I'm more willing to forego the 500, yields me?
• 17:43
  But those guys from st. Charles are not, they will come
• 17:45
  to Kabul. Yes, exactly.
• 17:46
  And, and they will hurt your son and so, they paid him.
• 17:49
  And that was the end of my book, making lending business.
• 17:53
  That was another was enough. Yeah, I was back to just In the,
• 17:57
  you know, the guy who needed date money.
• 17:58
  That was much safer. But, but I have to tell you
• 18:00
  this, the only reason why I had student loans was, I borrowed
• 18:04
  money to tell you that to do that?
• 18:06
  Yeah. I stopped on the way home at
• 18:09
  Christmas and got a fifteen hundred dollar student loan.
• 18:11
  A great Southern's in Springfield.
• 18:12
  Yeah. And then I put that and I partly
• 18:14
  when I got to college, I paid it off.
• 18:15
  You just parlayed your student loan, I loved it, I loved it.
• 18:18
  I mean you know the thing about your book and I think it's
• 18:21
  that's why it's such a great title, the gray, the great
• 18:25
  choice, Because, you know, people who you're a very smart
• 18:31
  man. And I grew up with a very smart
• 18:33
  man. And it almost encourages you
• 18:37
  because when you are in that world of thinking and figuring
• 18:42
  out and pushing curiosity, all those things.
• 18:45
  If you're really smart, it pushes you into the gray area
• 18:48
  because it doesn't feel black and white you're looking for
• 18:51
  solutions to something that can you know what, they could
• 18:53
  actually work that way, if I could just did this, or did
• 18:55
  that? So it's that's why your books
• 18:57
  and interesting read because you can see at different points in
• 19:03
  your life, Sean that it's an inspiring story because you you
• 19:09
  are constantly doing what you need to do.
• 19:12
  A lot of other people aren't doing but then when you get to
• 19:14
  that point you're not completely satisfied.
• 19:16
  And that's that's that inner competitiveness or that that
• 19:21
  drive that I think towards the end of your career of what you
• 19:25
  were. In the banking business, you've
• 19:27
  had kind of lost that because you had driven all the way to
• 19:29
  the top of the mountain and done, all those things.
• 19:33
  That was the thing that was your inner Fuel and then you had to
• 19:37
  figure out how to find that fuel again.
• 19:40
  But let's talk a little bit about how you got into the
• 19:44
  banking world because like you said, your parents weren't
• 19:46
  pushing you into that. No, not at all end up.
• 19:49
  So it's the fall of my senior year and I took the LSAT and I
• 19:53
  had a professor Walter Johnson who was in here.
• 19:56
  Might even Walter Johnson was there.
• 19:57
  Yeah. A very, very, very famous man,
• 19:59
  on that. Yes.
• 20:00
  And he said, Sean, you should know what you think, and I said,
• 20:03
  dr. John Tyson my parents really not
• 20:06
  that. I listen to them that much in a
• 20:07
  lot of ways. But that's one thing, they would
• 20:08
  not really approve up. And he said, Sean, the world is
• 20:11
  changing, and there's a book called the bankers.
• 20:14
  It actually references, Mark, Twain Bank out of st.
• 20:16
  Louis in those days, and he had me read that.
• 20:18
  And I said, I, he said, because it's becoming a sales culture.
• 20:21
  It's a different world and now it's even different again.
• 20:23
  There's different again, right? It's no fun again.
• 20:27
  I had three priority interviews, IBM Merrill Lynch and um, be and
• 20:34
  so um, be before the Nevada? Missouri Bank?
• 20:36
  Yeah, before the Nebraska game they were number two or
• 20:40
  something. We were like number 17 and we
• 20:42
  lost 726 on George horror. Short hose dropping the ball in
• 20:46
  the end zone. That was the bad news.
• 20:47
  The good news was the day before the president.
• 20:50
  A young guy. Not unlike myself and your dad.
• 20:53
  A young guy from Southeast. Missouri was president at a very
• 20:55
  young age. Age like thirty seven or eight
• 20:57
  had grown up in a small town played basketball at Mizzou and
• 21:01
  he interviewed me and so well few days later I got a call and
• 21:07
  they said, would you come to Kansas City on this Friday will
• 21:09
  be the Friday before we went to lay The Jayhawks.
• 21:12
  So I want to wow, that's girl, why we went there?
• 21:15
  I had an interview, you know, had a weekend in Kansas City and
• 21:18
  what I wanted for the interview and the one of my teaching
• 21:22
  assistants from corpfin, Finance 2003 was there?
• 21:26
  And so, when I got inside, they said, you have any questions?
• 21:28
  Why head to the first question was, you know, trying to be, you
• 21:31
  know, on the walls, sure, what's your best marketing?
• 21:34
  You know, I mean, there's a table with everybody, but the
• 21:36
  chairman of the board there are six or eight men, looking at you
• 21:40
  and big interview, right? And I'm thinking, and I'm
• 21:42
  thinking it's, you know, they're going to hit me sir.
• 21:44
  With some question, it was going to go being good, conservative,
• 21:47
  Bankers, that when do you go? Well, and a few years later, I
• 21:51
  found out after digressing, tell you few hours later, they would
• 21:54
  ask girls who would come in, Do you drive because their wives
• 21:58
  didn't drive? You have to do generational
• 22:00
  things going today, you get sued for that.
• 22:01
  Sure you would. But in those days they tell you,
• 22:03
  hey Jared have a Heyday with that.
• 22:05
  Yes, they went, but I asked this question to us twice on one of
• 22:07
  my teaching assistants out there, who's a several years
• 22:10
  older getting his. And I said, do I need an MBA to
• 22:12
  get this job? And they said, no, and I've
• 22:14
  quoted this in meaning interviews with young people.
• 22:17
  We look for me, we look for two things maturity, and you've
• 22:20
  shown that in people who've been successful in team sports.
• 22:23
  Hmm, because if you've been successful team sports, you can
• 22:25
  make The whole Enterprise Leasing theory.
• 22:28
  Yes. Yeah.
• 22:29
  And so that's how I ended up in making but I will tell you one
• 22:32
  more than I want. The well I moved us to Kansas
• 22:35
  City on the weekend of Labor Day Memorial Day and the first of
• 22:39
  June was a Tuesday. So that someday I drove downtown
• 22:42
  at this big old Bank building and it said open like nine to
• 22:45
  three or four or something. So the next day I got up and I
• 22:48
  showed up at about eight fifty five and walked in and walked
• 22:51
  through this door and went up to the 94th.
• 22:53
  Our first, I met the director of HR and about Six and a half
• 22:56
  seconds because I was late. I didn't realize that that door
• 23:00
  time was for the customers. I was supposed to be there
• 23:03
  before I but that's how I started out brand.
• 23:05
  That was the first day the first day.
• 23:08
  So you you kind of learned and had some mentors in that world
• 23:13
  and you, I forget what, how long you were there before you took
• 23:17
  the opportunity to move to st. Louis, can you kind of walk us
• 23:20
  through how that progressed? Yeah, I I started in June of 82
• 23:24
  and I came to st. Louis in February of 84 And I
• 23:26
  figured out probably within a year, we were the biggest bank
• 23:29
  in Kansas City and we were nothing and st.
• 23:32
  Louis. Yeah.
• 23:32
  And all the fancy stuff in Kansas.
• 23:34
  Yeah, we had. I mean they had art, we had
• 23:36
  every Thomas Hart Benton and every George Caleb Bingham.
• 23:39
  You can imagine just beautiful. I think it was a particle.
• 23:41
  The wolf and a beautiful dining room.
• 23:43
  Beautiful. If you realize this because
• 23:46
  people tease me about being conscious but you gotta
• 23:49
  remember, I'm single. Yeah, you got soup salad, main
• 23:52
  course and dessert in your, in your iced tea.
• 23:55
  Which is might For two dollars and twenty cents that was it
• 23:58
  that was it, but I wasn't an officer.
• 23:59
  And so after about 13 or 14 months, I'm looking around, I'm
• 24:02
  gone. And I went into the
• 24:03
  vice-chairman. I said, you know, Mister you
• 24:05
  all, I think I need to be an officer will, in a few days I
• 24:08
  was at loan Administration office or whatever.
• 24:10
  That was, I was the only one in the company but you are not a
• 24:12
  loser and I could go eat down there.
• 24:14
  And that was, I was looking for. How can I you you?
• 24:16
  If you know me, well in life, you know, I love food and I love
• 24:18
  to eat. I'm trying to figure out a way
• 24:20
  to do that, but I knew early on, I come to St.
• 24:22
  Louis. Because St.
• 24:23
  Louis growing up on the Arkansas line, literally.
• 24:26
  In the middle of the state, but you were st.
• 24:29
  Louis Cardinal, Fisher. And we went to st.
• 24:31
  Louis on my dad raced horses over there.
• 24:33
  So it wasn't a familiar to you at all.
• 24:35
  Not at all. And so the opportunity came up,
• 24:38
  they said you can go. You can stay in Kansas City.
• 24:40
  You can go to Springfield, are you can go to st.
• 24:43
  Louis. And I, of course, the day and
• 24:46
  went to Springfield met the guy, but that wasn't going to work.
• 24:48
  And I went to st. Louis, and they offered me a job
• 24:51
  and so I showed up a couple months later but st.
• 24:55
  Louis For you and me, it was the same thing for St.
• 24:57
  Louis banks in Kansas City, the other.
• 24:59
  But I'll never forget. Because this was a great thing
• 25:01
  about the company I was within a culture.
• 25:03
  Literally after 12 months, I sat in meetings with the chairman
• 25:07
  CEO I mean I watch people say how do you know about buying
• 25:09
  Banks? I said because when I was 22 and
• 25:11
  23 years old, I sit in rooms and we watch what they were doing
• 25:14
  it, right? And your job was to man the
• 25:15
  phone and to be the runner but you heard everything and you
• 25:19
  literally heard everything. Yeah.
• 25:21
  And so what an education it was a great education but I was in
• 25:25
  my last Eating and mr. Kemper looked at me and he said,
• 25:29
  and he had that gravel he's on. He goes, I hear you're going to
• 25:32
  st. Louis.
• 25:32
  And I said, yes, sir. And he goes well, you know, we
• 25:35
  got good news finally, and he looks down at Jerry Rice who had
• 25:37
  been at the bank. I trained at and then they moved
• 25:39
  him to the holding company and he said, Jerry, we made, we made
• 25:42
  what 24,000 last month in st. Louis, and Jerry looked at him
• 25:47
  and Jerry just had that look of an accountant of no Crosby.
• 25:50
  We made $24. And then, he gonna cross because
• 25:54
  he kicked the floorboard through his Bill one time.
• 25:56
  He I mean he pounded and scream. He was a wonderful guy but he
• 25:59
  had a temper and he just goes, well, why did we take one more
• 26:02
  person to lunch? We could have lost money for the
• 26:04
  10th year in a row because they had four Banks and this is
• 26:07
  before Branch Banking and the steel in the downtown st.
• 26:09
  Louis Bank, lost money every month, and I got there just in
• 26:13
  time for to get fun. So obviously was an opportunity
• 26:17
  because the easy, the easy Road and I think this is why I think
• 26:20
  your story's interesting, the easy Road would have been to
• 26:22
  stay in Kansas City, be around all the fancy stuff.
• 26:26
  Silk Stocking clientele and move up the ladder.
• 26:31
  Exactly. That would have been the thing.
• 26:32
  The easy sophisticated cushy way to do it, and you did just the
• 26:38
  opposite. You went to a place where they
• 26:40
  were not known. You had to make your way as the
• 26:44
  new guy, and you weren't the guy, that was from st.
• 26:47
  Louis, which is a big deal in St.
• 26:49
  Louis, you know where you went to high school?
• 26:51
  Everybody wants to ask that question.
• 26:52
  You were from ther and You come into this world?
• 26:57
  How does how does it work? Well in this is, this is what's
• 27:00
  interesting. You said, exactly the things
• 27:02
  that I face. But I was able to turn them the
• 27:04
  other way. I became the at 24 years old.
• 27:08
  They kept sending me out as the face of the bank and the 24th at
• 27:12
  24. Yeah.
• 27:13
  And I looked at just other than age and if you went to the
• 27:16
  parking lot and saw that 83k car out there you definitely knew
• 27:19
  that wasn't a banker but those popular the tiles case they were
• 27:24
  Lee Iacocca. So, They sent me to a vent at
• 27:28
  the Casa Loma Ballroom for young st.
• 27:30
  Louis singles. And I was down there and I don't
• 27:33
  Cherokee Street. Yeah, I don't care.
• 27:34
  He's a big deal. Yeah.
• 27:36
  Hands. And dancing.
• 27:37
  And it was, what's funny is, is it became the crowd of people
• 27:40
  that I competed with and got to know him?
• 27:42
  My kids went to school with eventually but I'm just, you
• 27:44
  know, to them a guy from Kansas City, but I'm a been in st.
• 27:47
  Louis 10 days. Mmm.
• 27:49
  But what was interesting was everybody's talking about what
• 27:52
  they were going to do for the third grade reunions, and where
• 27:55
  they went to high school. Cool.
• 27:56
  Well, I would say I want to Thayer high school and I always
• 27:58
  had a little fun with him. I would go they go.
• 28:01
  Well, what kind of glass was kind of private?
• 28:04
  You had to live in a special place and they're only 57
• 28:06
  people, my graduating class was there thinking 57 people, But
• 28:09
  the irony in that Brandon, you move to steal.
• 28:11
  Oh yeah. Is it?
• 28:12
  We had an advantage because they couldn't put us in a box.
• 28:15
  Yes. If I would have said I, you
• 28:17
  know, I went to Vianney. They go.
• 28:19
  He's from South County. Exactly.
• 28:21
  There was nowhere to put you. Right?
• 28:22
  Exactly. Our, he went to you.
• 28:24
  Hi, he's a really bright Catholic.
• 28:25
  He had The other thing, I think Shawn that you used it, you
• 28:29
  know, I always like I was it all wars and Country Club and I
• 28:32
  always made the joke that there there was I got in because I was
• 28:36
  the only person from Hickory Hills junior high.
• 28:38
  Well, that was funny because they, instead of being ashamed
• 28:43
  of it or not being able to fit it, it worked as something.
• 28:47
  And what you did is you worked it to your advantage which is
• 28:51
  smart. Well, you're in, you're exactly
• 28:52
  right. And that.
• 28:53
  So the other thing that helped coming to st.
• 28:55
  Louis was When you're in banking, you have something
• 28:57
  everybody wants money but I found my early success actually
• 29:02
  going to the Jewish Community because Landmark was somewhat
• 29:06
  considered the Jewish bank and Mark Twain, definitely was.
• 29:09
  But the other Banks were in. So I could have early successes
• 29:11
  and then we built on those successes and then people hear
• 29:14
  what you did this or you did that.
• 29:15
  And then in this was a thing about and it's and it's true in
• 29:18
  any large company, but they knew me in Kansas City.
• 29:21
  And one time, I got an eight million dollar loan approved in
• 29:24
  a day which was unheard of Sure. I mean Crosby Kemper signed a
• 29:29
  house loan for a thousand dollars.
• 29:32
  I one week as a management trainee presented 83 real estate
• 29:35
  loans to him, none of them were more than 50 thousand dollars.
• 29:39
  Well, I spent, you know, come and he would look at me and he a
• 29:42
  funny story and this is a Monette Story down your neck of
• 29:45
  the woods. I have three pictures and he
• 29:48
  says Sean. What are these three pictures
• 29:50
  for? And I said, well, mr.
• 29:51
  Kemper I said here's the deal. I said this is the streets
• 29:54
  showing its paved. And then there's really nice
• 29:57
  Ranch House. You know, say early 60s and I
• 30:00
  said, this is house next door and then Eileen to third picture
• 30:03
  down, and this is a house of Rio ten thousand dollars on.
• 30:06
  Well, he's what we lived, 2,000 dollars on this but, you know,
• 30:10
  that was, that was it. That was, that was it so to get
• 30:13
  an eight million dollar deal in a culture, like that was unheard
• 30:15
  of and Mark Twain, who lost us where they, because I ended up
• 30:18
  knowing the guy who's, how did you do that?
• 30:19
  I said, they trusted me. I was from Kansas City.
• 30:22
  Yeah, and had I not done that detour in Kansas City.
• 30:24
  I wouldn't of done with Sean. The thing I think I wanted to
• 30:27
  ask you because after seeing how you went up through the ranks
• 30:31
  with um, be coming over to st. Louis and then, as you start to
• 30:35
  become somebody with your own bank, did you it's because you
• 30:40
  became a different Banker than what um be was.
• 30:45
  And, you know, they were proud of their conservative roots and
• 30:49
  what but you went after the Contemporary way of growing a
• 30:54
  bank and Did those did you work off of that?
• 30:58
  As that I learned this and I'm going to grow differently or I
• 31:02
  learned this and I'm just going to create a whole different
• 31:05
  brand of a little piece of that. But all of this, I went to
• 31:10
  graduate school banking, the University of Delaware and my
• 31:12
  thesis was really plagiarizing. Mark Twain.
• 31:16
  It was actually a bank out of New Jersey called National
• 31:18
  Community Bank. Who did we did exactly what they
• 31:20
  did, okay, you followed that he duplicated and I love that
• 31:24
  because so many people People that get into trying to grow a
• 31:28
  company, they think that they have to reinvent the wheel and
• 31:31
  what I found growing a company was there was always something
• 31:34
  out there. If I looked hard enough that I
• 31:37
  could copy, and I could bring it back and implement it into our
• 31:40
  company and that is the secret to growing a company.
• 31:45
  Getting something that's already out there.
• 31:46
  Don't reinvent it, take it and then duplicate it exactly being
• 31:49
  a play. I was only, I would say this
• 31:51
  later Rob plant, probably, just because it was just one of those
• 31:54
  things where It just worked and yes, but the thing that made us
• 31:57
  special was we had all these business people around us who
• 32:01
  wanted to be involved in a bank but couldn't yeah, for lots of
• 32:04
  reasons, they weren't they weren't Blue Bloods.
• 32:06
  They weren't sharing with that, but they had so much knowledge
• 32:09
  about industry and they constantly ask me the question.
• 32:13
  Why do you all do this this way? And before it was over, a lot of
• 32:17
  times we change how we did things because they looked at,
• 32:20
  like, don't do things because that's what you've always done
• 32:22
  them. And that was a unique thing in
• 32:23
  banking and, you know, That we did was just and we turn a
• 32:27
  Kentucky, Fried Chicken's a Hardee's into the bank.
• 32:30
  Did we would we made more money at Westport Plaza, often ATM
• 32:33
  machine and out of the bank. I love it and I want it.
• 32:36
  If you could have done this legally, but you could do it
• 32:38
  technology wise, I would have had because what happened are so
• 32:41
  many bars out there knows days. Yeah, that you'd have people
• 32:43
  come at 5 and 5, I would have gone to have been a dollar
• 32:45
  between 8 a.m. and two dollars and then it 11 in like five
• 32:49
  dollars and it would entail anything but you could the
• 32:53
  technology rights, right? But no, it was It was a fun run.
• 32:56
  Do you think after after reading the history of where, how you
• 33:00
  stepped, you didn't get the position, you thought you should
• 33:06
  have gotten. Do you think that's what clicked
• 33:09
  and started the momentum of you thinking?
• 33:11
  I got to get out of here? Yeah, it was.
• 33:13
  And if we were in a place you can see now I normally then
• 33:17
  immediately take my head and bang it against the wall and I
• 33:19
  said, it took me seven years. Forgot.
• 33:20
  My last name wasn't Kemper. Yeah, and I actually predicted
• 33:24
  the CEOs after I Then they were on their own.
• 33:26
  Yeah. And but the point was when I
• 33:29
  didn't get what I thought I should have gotten quite
• 33:31
  honestly, Brent, I shouldn't have gotten it.
• 33:33
  I was not mature old enough is good, it felt it felt like you
• 33:36
  should have at the timer and that's what matters, right?
• 33:38
  But I went to all these men that I done business with and those
• 33:41
  days virtually every company that was a size was run by mail
• 33:44
  and I really was like, you know one kind of get him by 12, can I
• 33:48
  come in and help run it because they were older and everyone
• 33:52
  said, you should do a bank deal. But that year that the year
• 33:55
  before For the arm I was 89. This was a d88.
• 33:58
  New bank started in st. Louis, mmm.
• 34:00
  And you know, it just and they kept saying doing it and then
• 34:03
  that's how we end it was because of my original partner that that
• 34:07
  we did a bank deal and it was really, and I had no clue what I
• 34:10
  was getting into. I'll be honest with you, you
• 34:13
  know, the one story that that everybody jokes about the, the,
• 34:17
  the movement of the cash. Oh gosh, you got it.
• 34:19
  Well, you've got to tell that. Well, first of all, you get this
• 34:21
  little bank and Hoka Hoka, I don't know, remember what size
• 34:27
  is town that is but I'm not been to Kahoka but it's a small bank
• 34:32
  and you're 29:29 you're 29 and you roll into town, you take
• 34:37
  that, you're the guy. You you and and and I can't
• 34:41
  remember the name all my original problem.
• 34:43
  So You've got to tell the story of what you did with this cash.
• 34:48
  Well, it's hard to believe how stupid we are when you look back
• 34:52
  at it but you created culture with it.
• 34:54
  We did. And that's and I believe that
• 34:56
  that in any business in life, it's all about culture and I'm
• 34:59
  familiar with that story becomes Legend, right?
• 35:01
  And then and you do those things in overtime as you grow culture
• 35:05
  changes and things like that. It but you but you have to have
• 35:08
  a core culture. So we buy this bank and we don't
• 35:10
  know what we're doing now. This guy being president Bank,
• 35:12
  he was very smart man, knew how to run one but we just were
• 35:14
  Wired differently and we had a million one hundred thousand
• 35:17
  dollars in cash. Now that came with a deal.
• 35:21
  Yeah, it was. Yeah, we paid for but you don't
• 35:23
  do anything with it and it counts towards your reserve
• 35:25
  requirements when it's in your Vault, but you don't earn
• 35:28
  interest on it. Unless it's at the fed.
• 35:30
  Well, in those days fed funds, were like, what's a 9% today?
• 35:34
  There are about 5'4. So, nine percent on Amelia wants
• 35:38
  100,000 a year. Yeah.
• 35:39
  Well, we didn't know anything. If nobody tracked, any of this
• 35:41
  stuff. We didn't know how much we could
• 35:43
  take out but I will tell you 10 years later with 38 branches.
• 35:47
  I didn't have one that had more than 50,000 and it had 50 or
• 35:50
  more in the ATM because you just learned how to run without cash.
• 35:53
  And so what happens is we decide we're going to take three
• 35:56
  quarter million dollars and take it to the Fed.
• 35:58
  So I get on the phone and I call Bronx because that's what you
• 36:00
  called in those days. And they said, you know, they
• 36:02
  had their system, well, we can get the cocoa which by the way,
• 36:04
  is a town of 2,000 sound familiar on the Iowa line,
• 36:08
  couldn't have gone any further, you know, we're Christians and
• 36:11
  they said, we'll, we'll be there next Thursday.
• 36:14
  They'll be $250 and I'm thinking, let me call you back
• 36:17
  when I get off on it or not going to pay $250, what are they
• 36:20
  thinking? So literally, Brent, what were
• 36:23
  we thinking? We went out at 89, Buick
• 36:26
  LeSabre. We loaded three, cores million
• 36:28
  dollars in cash. It's not like you see in a movie
• 36:30
  where, you know, they got a briefcase.
• 36:32
  Yeah, you know, these are tens and twenties and fifties and
• 36:34
  hundreds that Buick your styling in that Buick LeSabre was some
• 36:39
  money. It's in the low rider position.
• 36:41
  I mean, I find it on I-44. I would be picked up for
• 36:44
  carrying marijuana. Crackers, that's who they
• 36:45
  profile. Big cars with their trunks.
• 36:49
  So I get in the car and I started driving back.
• 36:51
  And then as I look back at that, as 168 miles one way, you know,
• 36:55
  virtually grade rent was raining and 120 miles of two-lane road
• 37:00
  and I'm thinking what if I have an accident?
• 37:03
  Yeah. What if I get pulled over?
• 37:04
  I mean I can't even imagine what 750,000 dollars even looks like
• 37:08
  in the flesh. Because it's it's a lot of money
• 37:12
  and it's heavy. It is a lot of money too heavy.
• 37:14
  Now, he gets crazier because after this story came out, I
• 37:16
  didn't even tell anybody this, the recently and my cousin when
• 37:21
  I told him, that figure Shaunie is, why don't you sleep in the
• 37:23
  car? I didn't think of that, Brent,
• 37:25
  literally my oldest son to ask me that last night because I
• 37:28
  find that hidden watch the video.
• 37:29
  So I take and we unload the money and we're thinking, okay,
• 37:32
  we lived in Ledoux, which was nice.
• 37:34
  Yeah. But you know, you're not
• 37:35
  thinking about getting about everybody's get 750 thousand
• 37:37
  dollars on the floor. The their living room.
• 37:40
  Yeah, but we put it the favorite and we took the blanket over it
• 37:43
  and then everybody sleeps. And it around it.
• 37:45
  So if something goes wrong, we'll figure out.
• 37:47
  We're going to do and then about 4:00 in the morning, everybody
• 37:49
  gets up and you load it back in the car and it is the funny part
• 37:52
  is you pull down on, you came in on Fourth Street to the fed well
• 37:56
  at about 5:30 in the morning there's like 20 Brinks trucks in
• 37:59
  a red Buick. How old would your kids have
• 38:01
  been when they were loading that back?
• 38:02
  Oh yeah, they didn't help though, right?
• 38:04
  Okay. And one child and he was going
• 38:06
  to be too like the next he didn't help at all.
• 38:08
  No no. And in fact, last night was the
• 38:10
  first time he'd ever heard this story.
• 38:11
  It's a crazy. It's one of the craziest stories
• 38:13
  I've heard but You know, it's it's what and he say, 250.
• 38:18
  But like, what I love about this is because, you know, so much as
• 38:22
  sales is storytelling so much. A closing deals is storytelling.
• 38:27
  So much a building culture in a company, is having a legendary
• 38:31
  story that becomes Legend. And that is one of those type of
• 38:35
  stories because it says something about what triggered
• 38:39
  that in your brain was, we're not paying 250 for that.
• 38:41
  Yeah, but you lined your Buick Up with the Brinks trucks down
• 38:46
  at the FED. Yep.
• 38:47
  It just in the united only even know if this is it.
• 38:49
  I wonder if that's ever even happened before.
• 38:51
  Probably a Buick LeSabre lined up with the Brinks trucks at the
• 38:54
  festival after 9/11. I don't know.
• 38:56
  They let you get the puppy when which, especially when they saw
• 38:59
  in the low, right had to be a bomb, you know?
• 39:01
  But exactly. But no you're right culture and
• 39:03
  culture so important in everything in life.
• 39:05
  Yeah. But it, but it's created by
• 39:07
  moments like that. Yeah.
• 39:09
  Moments like that. So you get going with this bank
• 39:12
  teller walk us through how this be becomes Allegiant.
• 39:17
  Well, We get going and we've been added about 2 years and we
• 39:22
  had a bad year 91 and I had made a mistake and made a lot of
• 39:28
  mistakes in my life, some really big ones, but I had raised over
• 39:31
  half the money. I said probably a met with
• 39:35
  everybody to raise it but over half the money, it was from
• 39:38
  people, I knew less than five years and I went to probably 400
• 39:42
  people to Summer of 89 89. People gave me two million five,
• 39:46
  hundred and sixty five thousand dollars.
• 39:50
  That's some salad. That's what we got selling.
• 39:52
  And so We're Off to the Races, but there were nine board seats
• 39:55
  and I took one and there was an accountant to help me introduce
• 39:59
  me. Some people and I took him and
• 40:00
  the other seven were friends of my partner.
• 40:04
  But using a very entrepreneurial Dynamic, man.
• 40:08
  He was chairman and not, then but he became chairman.
• 40:12
  And he said, I want to take you to dinner.
• 40:13
  We went to dinner and he said Shawn this not working.
• 40:15
  He said, you ought to be running the place and I said, well, it's
• 40:18
  not going to happen because, you know, okay, now the votes 623
• 40:21
  and he goes, I think you're selling yourself short and
• 40:23
  Brent. I am almost said this a while
• 40:25
  ago, but it's a better time to say this.
• 40:27
  I did operate my whole life in the gray.
• 40:29
  Mmm, but what I did up until I got lost, I always As went to
• 40:33
  lawyers, and I would say if you already see Brent, I want to do
• 40:37
  this. Tell me how legally I can do it,
• 40:39
  and then I'll decide if it's worth the aggravation.
• 40:41
  Yep. So we went to this lawyer and it
• 40:44
  cost $600 for about a ten-minute meeting, but it's best $600 or
• 40:47
  has been our lives. He said, here's we're going to
• 40:49
  do. We're going to draft a
• 40:51
  resolution, and you're going to put nine names on it and then
• 40:54
  you go to the ones. Obviously, we put his name on it
• 40:57
  but you're not going to go to him.
• 40:59
  Excuse me. And we're going to do is we're
• 41:00
  going to have you get them to say that the Board meeting.
• 41:04
  And then we set this up for the board meetings, a week away.
• 41:06
  As on a Wednesday, we met with you on a Monday, it was a small
• 41:10
  meeting a different kind of meeting, and we're going to hand
• 41:12
  it to him and say, look, here's a copy, we've got five, how many
• 41:16
  of you've got? Well, we got six what, the catch
• 41:20
  in that wasn't the gray was a director, can only vote in a
• 41:25
  meeting, a shareholder. Can give you a proxy, but that's
• 41:28
  that thing we gave him. It wasn't illegal in a law
• 41:31
  since, you know, a criminal offense.
• 41:33
  It's, but it was one worth the paper.
• 41:34
  It's written on, but the bluff paid off.
• 41:37
  And by operating that gray, well, he could, he went to the
• 41:40
  meeting immediately blew up right now.
• 41:42
  The room went to one director. Now it was went from 6 to 3 to 5
• 41:45
  to 4. We went to another one who hired
• 41:47
  him at Mark Twain woman whose brilliant genius could read
• 41:50
  people like I never know my life.
• 41:52
  She said well what do you took you so long to do this?
• 41:54
  Of course I'm like well that was 63 and it was over.
• 41:58
  Hmm. And so now then I'm just turned
• 42:01
  33 and I'm the CEO. And we were a 50 million dollar
• 42:05
  bank and this is something that people don't really realize.
• 42:10
  We grew 50-fold brand in nine years and such growth.
• 42:15
  We grew earnings for hundredfold.
• 42:18
  And so it was like a it was what it feel, like it was a rocket
• 42:21
  ride. It was a and I was I want to
• 42:23
  stop and say this when it came time to sell I had no problems.
• 42:28
  It was time. Yeah.
• 42:29
  You knew it we'd been together 15 years.
• 42:31
  It's like it run its course but those those ten years after we
• 42:36
  bought our my partner out, 11 years, just Nominal when you
• 42:40
  guys were known. I mean you and I really never
• 42:42
  cross paths a couple of times but you were known as the bank,
• 42:49
  you know, that was on the rise, the bank that was making things
• 42:52
  happen and that had to feel a certain way to you after all the
• 42:56
  different things that you'd been through being on that rise.
• 42:59
  Being in that power position being in the the know of a guy
• 43:05
  that had it going on in a city like st.
• 43:08
  Louis. And it was a drunk.
• 43:09
  Yeah. Be a drug and it in, that's the
• 43:13
  beginning of the end and then and a lot of ways.
• 43:16
  But I have to digress here and talk about our paths Crossing
• 43:20
  because in 1986. Yeah, your dad and you all lived
• 43:25
  on the do Road? Yes.
• 43:26
  Want to say Ledoux road? Yeah.
• 43:28
  And you banked at you and be and of course, Iran corporate
• 43:31
  banking. Then one of my Bankers said, you
• 43:32
  need to go out to the do road. We got to go look at this house.
• 43:36
  And so we go out there and this gentleman who turned out to be
• 43:38
  your dad's only time we'd ever met I'd ever met him and and he
• 43:42
  said, I want to do this addition here and I'm going to change the
• 43:46
  front of the house and it's gonna become Oak, lack of the
• 43:48
  house. It was beautiful.
• 43:50
  It was a brilliant, he changed the value because be a 99,
• 43:54
  whatever linear ode was 94. 45 would erode was not good, no,
• 43:58
  but being 21 Oakley or for Oakley, right?
• 44:01
  Was like changed everything, right?
• 44:02
  Totally. It was brilliant.
• 44:04
  And we talked about that for years even though I never knew
• 44:06
  Got never saw your dad again. Then I played golf maybe a dozen
• 44:11
  times in my life. Yeah.
• 44:12
  And you know, I have a family full of great golfers.
• 44:14
  Do I'm not one of them. So my brother broke off for so
• 44:18
  long to say no, and I'm out of st.
• 44:21
  Albans, with a very prominent. African-American lawyer Minister
• 44:25
  who I can't think of his name right now, but was the African
• 44:28
  American minister in this. If something happened to cities,
• 44:30
  long-dead was there, and my brother-in-law, we're playing
• 44:32
  golf. And my phone goes off, and it's
• 44:34
  a realtor. And This is Shawn, he goes, I've
• 44:37
  got a house on polo. We can buy and he goes, I know
• 44:42
  you're looking for your help, your brother-in-law find a
• 44:44
  different house. So, my brother-in-law is when
• 44:48
  exponent one that was very cost-conscious and so there's a
• 44:52
  bidding war between you and my brother.
• 44:54
  He said this Cassidy guy has got a lot of money but you could you
• 44:56
  can pay for and I know you didn't well, Michael couldn't
• 45:00
  get there and you bought that you turn in a magnificent and it
• 45:04
  was privileged enough to come into it but one of my son's best
• 45:07
  friends. She grew up next door to you
• 45:09
  almost. Yeah, and Margo and so I would
• 45:13
  need time I drop off a building. I think.
• 45:14
  Oh! That Cassie made a great bite.
• 45:16
  Now One More Story. Let's this one.
• 45:18
  You don't know at all. Okay, I didn't know that one.
• 45:20
  Now with this is this is even in this one is Bittersweet for both
• 45:24
  of us. And it's not about your Dad yet.
• 45:25
  I won't go there and that's what I'll get emotional because he
• 45:28
  was a wonderful man. But so it's 2008 and I had lost
• 45:34
  all this money and Banking and real estate because I lost my
• 45:37
  Edge and it's time to leave National City.
• 45:40
  And I owned at that time, probably like five or six or
• 45:42
  seven office building parts of the Clayton.
• 45:44
  So I knew I was going to move. Bye.
• 45:46
  Timmy furniture and you all were in receivership and a partner of
• 45:51
  mine said there's some beautiful Furniture over there and I love
• 45:54
  that building for a lot of reasons that we did too.
• 45:57
  We won't go into because it we won't take the time but just to
• 46:00
  st. Louis history that building.
• 46:01
  It was a landmark dining room up there, and I'll go over there
• 46:03
  with mr. Clean, who is a competitor?
• 46:04
  But treated me, he and Adam earrings and treated me
• 46:07
  unbelievably well as a competitor.
• 46:09
  But so that the sales, like, at 10:00.
• 46:12
  So we put young guys in fire escapes.
• 46:16
  And there were two elevators and we had young guys in the first
• 46:18
  place. So, we were the first no matter
• 46:20
  who went to go bid. We were first and I went to your
• 46:23
  office and I bought your about your entire office.
• 46:25
  It was nice stuff. It was that partner's desk was
• 46:27
  unbelievable. I loved it.
• 46:29
  And what the sad thing for me was and my ex-wife.
• 46:32
  Now has the sofa. Yeah.
• 46:33
  You know, still was that we put it down in the, with the kids
• 46:35
  area downstairs and we love that sofa.
• 46:37
  She so has it but your desk when I got in all my legal troubles,
• 46:42
  I sold to a lawyer and that's something but that desk I love
• 46:45
  to that. Add a thousand wives that dust
• 46:47
  mite that they see that. That's how that is a connection.
• 46:50
  Yeah, all the way through. I so child, going through this
• 46:57
  bringing back a lot of different things when you went through and
• 47:02
  I think it's the part that's interesting in your book, you
• 47:05
  have this tremendous rise, you get involved with so many
• 47:09
  different people that are movers and shakers in the st.
• 47:11
  Louis Community, you know it's time to sell.
• 47:16
  National City becomes The Suitor and you become a guy.
• 47:23
  Now, that has he sell it for a half a billion dollars?
• 47:25
  You're 44 years old, I believe you've done it.
• 47:31
  What? What's going through your mind?
• 47:35
  Because I'm sure there was a latian, you know, that you've
• 47:37
  accomplished this gigantic goal. What were you thinking?
• 47:42
  Here's where I made my mistake. One, I was time.
• 47:46
  I was ready. It was right thing to do and I
• 47:48
  had, and I bought so many banks, along the way, it was like a 2.5
• 47:51
  billion dollar bank is the fifth-largest.
• 47:55
  He's a big bank. And by the way, you would never
• 47:57
  know it because my, you know, I office did 4333 4323 North
• 48:01
  Grand. Oh, that was the other thing.
• 48:03
  You talked about the carpet that you got is a deal.
• 48:05
  Oh yeah, this is a national city and we get down to the end and
• 48:09
  they said the CEO. Wonderful gentleman, says, you
• 48:13
  know Sean, I'm waiting for him to die.
• 48:14
  Hammer to drop because I would have tried drop the hammer and
• 48:16
  he says, he goes, you know, we're done, we'll do dogs, do
• 48:18
  they know we want to go through this deal, but I'm thinking
• 48:20
  here's the but, but we have to say, your office's, need a
• 48:23
  little sprucing up. Well, they did for two reasons,
• 48:26
  one, because our larger Stone Art, end up being our second,
• 48:30
  largest shareholder, by that time and I was the third, he
• 48:32
  young, he was in the Coatings business and so he knew a lot
• 48:36
  about carpet. So we bought a trailer truck
• 48:38
  load of see green. There you go, seaweed green
• 48:41
  carpet. And that's we put down by the
• 48:43
  way was a dollar a square. Our first by, by the square
• 48:45
  foot. So be like eight cents a square
• 48:47
  foot but it didn't look good. But we would buy a bank for him
• 48:50
  and after we get the deal signed we go through Furniture
• 48:52
  shopping, I wouldn't go through it.
• 48:53
  Like, you'd be with me, you know, the top guys.
• 48:55
  And I got, I want that picture. And you don't want that so far.
• 48:57
  I want this because we didn't buy anything, we were scavengers
• 49:02
  and that's, that was the culture.
• 49:03
  Yeah. But what I learned along the way
• 49:05
  and it's amazing, especially when I read the Wall Street
• 49:07
  Journal, and I look at business, We're felons.
• 49:10
  Yeah. And we're branded, but honestly
• 49:14
  I didn't buy a bank from anybody.
• 49:15
  And there's a lawyer who told me said, Sean virtually every
• 49:18
  businessman in America, commits three felonies.
• 49:20
  And yeah, there's a book on that.
• 49:21
  And I believe that and I but these guys, you had to legally,
• 49:25
  bribe them to sell you their company.
• 49:26
  They didn't care about their shareholders.
• 49:28
  I was at lunch one time with a mutual friend of ours.
• 49:29
  Don Davis. Brought a guy that was a big
• 49:31
  shareholder in a small bank and the other guy they started, same
• 49:33
  time, we didn't buy this time. We were 20 times their size, and
• 49:36
  the guy looked at me, he was actually for Springfield now
• 49:38
  that I think a prefilled move on to end up in st.
• 49:41
  Louis. And he looked at me at the end
• 49:42
  of lunch. He goes, he goes I really
• 49:44
  enjoyed meeting you, he said, but here's the deal.
• 49:46
  Sean, a third of my shareholders hate me, a third of my
• 49:49
  shareholders, love me in a third, don't care.
• 49:51
  And until the third don't care do something.
• 49:54
  It's the best job I've ever had. It sounds like a politician.
• 49:57
  And that's Corporate America. And so in our case, it's you,
• 50:02
  because I own so much stock and I had a golden pair shoes, were
• 50:05
  a couple million dollars and I was ready.
• 50:07
  It was just what it wasn't about me.
• 50:09
  It was about doing the right sure, the shareholder and I
• 50:11
  always felt like I could say that.
• 50:13
  But what I Austin, that was and I was powerful.
• 50:16
  And you had all this information, I still had some
• 50:19
  access to that, but I became seduced by the fact that this
• 50:23
  was the eighth largest bank in the country and I was like
• 50:25
  number one hundred of you know, seven or eight thousand holding
• 50:28
  companies, not individual things.
• 50:31
  And I mean, when they wanted me to come to Cleveland, they sent
• 50:34
  a jet, you know, 20 million dollars yet with two pilots and
• 50:36
  pick me up. And I was home for dinner.
• 50:38
  I'm here, it's nice. Yeah, it's very nice and but I
• 50:41
  lost I didn't lose drive, but I lost his street smarts, that
• 50:46
  fueled the drive, and then after four years, when it was time to
• 50:50
  leave, and I'd lost so much money, I had to make it back and
• 50:53
  I ended up getting into. I didn't realize because I was
• 50:55
  so insulated. I didn't realize how bad the
• 50:58
  world was. I'd lost it Street intelligence
• 51:01
  and then I went back into it and that's when just not only is
• 51:06
  everything going bad in my world.
• 51:08
  Then everything I had dealt with was bad and then what I didn't
• 51:11
  have was I I didn't have the people.
• 51:13
  Right? What was nice about National
• 51:14
  City. It was an intellectual people
• 51:18
  are so intelligent. Sure you know guy and I was in a
• 51:20
  small group, they paid you a hundred thousand dollars to take
• 51:23
  an executive management class and stock in one of our four
• 51:26
  people in my group and one of them had been number one is
• 51:29
  Harvard Law. School class went to Mackenzie.
• 51:31
  And I was like the third highest guy in their retail division,
• 51:34
  your talk of brilliant men than women Alabama football team.
• 51:37
  Yeah, I think I'm candy. People didn't get a fight for
• 51:39
  her, you'd understand. Yeah, they got, they got four
• 51:40
  more behind him at tight in and they got hit.
• 51:42
  Exactly. But but the intellectual part
• 51:45
  was wonderful but I that didn't work in the world.
• 51:48
  I was going into in my people had all gone their own way and
• 51:51
  I'm very proud of the fact about 10 miles of my.
• 51:52
  Yeah. Tell my guys going to be a quite
• 51:54
  a tree of people that have been successful.
• 51:57
  Yeah. But I couldn't put a man like
• 51:59
  that back together and then this is what got me to prison.
• 52:04
  Is I didn't have the resources and I didn't take the time to
• 52:10
  always ask the lawyer. How can I do it legally?
• 52:13
  Or if I couldn't then I would know.
• 52:15
  Because now I'm also thinking I'm smarter, but I'm also
• 52:18
  fighting fire after fire and I didn't take any money, but I
• 52:22
  still committed crime. I'd never.
• 52:23
  I don't deny that. At all, I tried to buy myself
• 52:25
  time. I thought, if I do this, and I
• 52:28
  can make it, yeah, really all about time to time to get to
• 52:31
  here to here and connect the dots.
• 52:33
  It's to survive because at the time that that kind of stuff was
• 52:37
  happening, there was the whole world of Finance was was in a
• 52:44
  different position than it was ever been.
• 52:47
  I guess is what you'd say, right?
• 52:48
  And I do the real estate crash and you had the Lehman Brothers,
• 52:51
  you had everything that was just a turn spiral, The Dominoes just
• 52:55
  starting from. Yeah.
• 52:56
  And I've never not. I've never, I always say, I made
• 52:59
  those decisions. I did it myself, I have no
• 53:00
  problem saying that, but it's amazing that I think I might
• 53:03
  have been We Banker in the country that went to prison.
• 53:05
  Hmm. And you know, I dealt with
• 53:08
  biggest banks in the country and sure kinds of program and we
• 53:11
  used to joke about the Chinese wall.
• 53:13
  Yeah. You know an investment house,
• 53:15
  it's either 6 inches or 18 feet depending on where they need it.
• 53:18
  Yeah. And I'm not and I'm not letting
• 53:20
  anybody it's not that it was me but I was I was the one and I
• 53:25
  deserved it. So going, I mean because you
• 53:30
  went through a series of Acquisitions as you described in
• 53:34
  your book again, putting together smaller Banks and as
• 53:40
  this is going on, the world is crumbling around and and do you
• 53:45
  think if you would have had your group that maybe those things
• 53:49
  would have been talked out differently?
• 53:51
  Or do you think that was just a environment of the moment and
• 53:55
  things went as they were did because I'll bifurcated.
• 53:59
  We would have failed anyway. Yeah.
• 54:01
  Because the macroeconomics, which is just that way.
• 54:03
  There was a tidal wave would be a compliment.
• 54:06
  Yes. Would I have ended up in prison?
• 54:09
  Maybe maybe not, you know, because I think I would had
• 54:12
  people around me. Who would have checked me
• 54:14
  better? Yeah.
• 54:15
  And in that might have saved me, but it might not have I, you
• 54:18
  know, I didn't say that. And, well, let's talk about when
• 54:21
  things start, when your nightmare becomes real.
• 54:25
  That, you know, that It's you're going to get indicted because
• 54:30
  when you get indicted of course, a lot of people believe
• 54:33
  indictment is conviction but and in the real world that actually
• 54:36
  does become that. How, what is going on?
• 54:42
  How are you dealing with it? And can you walk us through when
• 54:46
  the nightmare begins? When you're going into your
• 54:49
  world of, this is the end. I'm going to deal with it.
• 54:52
  And are they coming to get me? Well, and I'll back up a little
• 54:56
  and might the crime I committed was in 09.
• 54:59
  In the end of September of 13, I was walking out of a board
• 55:02
  meeting of a club, I was on my phone, rang, it was a lawyer,
• 55:07
  not a criminal lawyer, but he dealt so much.
• 55:10
  Is that the the I'm sure this in every city but in st.
• 55:13
  Louis the US attorney's office is a leaky ship.
• 55:16
  Hmm. You know, and he he said he
• 55:19
  said, Sean and I had this been going actually the FBI showed up
• 55:22
  at my house, like an April, when I was out in California, visit
• 55:24
  my two sons in college and I met with him in June and we talked
• 55:28
  and he came back and he goes, you're okay, they're not going
• 55:30
  to indict you their past, their passing on you.
• 55:32
  And I was never really there Target.
• 55:34
  That was my co-defendant not for me.
• 55:35
  Not for because of me because of his own actions and So I think,
• 55:42
  okay, you take, that's huge. And then about early December of
• 55:47
  15, the same man calls and says, Sean, their back on you.
• 55:51
  And here's why, and they were still so on him, that they'd
• 55:56
  turn somebody else. Well, now, they were looking at
• 55:58
  stuff, they weren't looking at before.
• 56:01
  And what I had done was the transaction that I had
• 56:03
  facilitated was through him and truthfully and I'm not saying it
• 56:08
  should have because I wouldn't be who I am today.
• 56:10
  Had it worked out. No one would ever know.
• 56:11
  I would just disappear, it wasn't money.
• 56:12
  There wasn't money, missing and we just bought time and but he
• 56:16
  was it in a real estate deal. It was and the bank approved the
• 56:21
  loan, but you were part of the real estate deal.
• 56:24
  And that's, that's where the connection was.
• 56:26
  You can't do that when you own the percentage, I write it had,
• 56:29
  he just sold and paid off, like it should have right?
• 56:32
  And never would have happened. We've been gone.
• 56:34
  What happened was is because he was so buried, he just looked as
• 56:38
  I check the box and then he forgot about it.
• 56:40
  And it's on me, not him. Yeah.
• 56:42
  And so that came out about through another guy, get into
• 56:46
  this game because of him who was part of that real estate
• 56:48
  transaction. So and of course, he never even
• 56:50
  got indicted, which is fine, but that's how he got out.
• 56:53
  And then once they looked at that, then they had me but
• 56:55
  ironically I want to go forward over a year two years when I got
• 57:01
  indicted and we finally reach an agreement, I had to tell the
• 57:04
  feds. They had a room full of people.
• 57:06
  I had to tell him what the crime was hmm.
• 57:07
  It was so complicated. Hmm.
• 57:10
  So, but back to then, so I find out and the week before
• 57:13
  Christmas. I go see Scott Rosenblum and
• 57:17
  Scott has me his office and I talked to him and he says, he
• 57:20
  just calls us attorney right there.
• 57:24
  You know, their secretaries one moment he says I'm sitting with
• 57:26
  Sean Hayes. Is he going to get indicted?
• 57:27
  He said any day, any day. So we hung up and I said Scott,
• 57:31
  I said what do you want? He said a quarter million, I see
• 57:37
  myself by that point, I didn't have a Quartermaine.
• 57:39
  I wasn't going to ask my family so I suffered through Christmas
• 57:43
  and the day after Christmas, I told my wife and you've been
• 57:46
  down that path and if all the things that have happened in
• 57:50
  this, It's what you've done to your family, whether
• 57:55
  intentionally or unintentionally is the cost.
• 57:58
  Yeah, in fact, I said when I was in prison Only hurt my family.
• 58:05
  You know, this isn't that bad for me.
• 58:08
  But obviously, didn't go over well and then you hit the
• 58:13
  depression and was she was she aware of any of it?
• 58:18
  Sean at the time. So she was, she just didn't know
• 58:22
  when well and she never knew the crime still done to this day and
• 58:27
  she was a lawyer and practice law.
• 58:29
  But Forget that the US attorney's office.
• 58:32
  Leaky ship. It goes to every lawyer in town.
• 58:33
  Sure. She's getting her own
• 58:34
  information outside of me, but, and your kids.
• 58:41
  What are the ages of the kids? When this is coming down, let's
• 58:44
  see a little 11 to 28, okay. Then never told any of them,
• 58:50
  anything, obviously. So, in March that, now months,
• 58:55
  two months go by and nothing happens.
• 58:58
  I get a criminal lawyer through a friend.
• 59:00
  And through some friends and we go down and meet with them and
• 59:04
  we look at it and it's an unbelievably complex case.
• 59:07
  Obviously, if a year and a half later I did tell them what I
• 59:10
  did. And we think you said you only
• 59:12
  said Johnny, Goes you're getting indicted and he says you're
• 59:15
  going now. He says, you know, I feel good
• 59:17
  about court and I even felt good about court and that point and
• 59:21
  even though I told my wife and she said Sean 97% of all people
• 59:24
  get convicted, right that get him, dad died, it United get
• 59:27
  convicted, you know, so your toes.
• 59:29
  But So, we met with us, Assistant Attorney.
• 59:32
  And he said, now, I'm gonna tell my client to carry his passport.
• 59:36
  So that he can turn himself in. Hmm.
• 59:38
  So on April in mid-april this is what's horrible about the
• 59:42
  government. I'd go to Jeff City.
• 59:44
  I own part of the health care company to finish the good,
• 59:47
  we've investigated for something we were totally cleared the
• 59:49
  employee quit. Everything is going to went down
• 59:50
  to pay the lawyer and I thank him and solve some documents.
• 59:53
  And I came back to chest, feel Valley to watch my youngest son,
• 59:56
  play baseball. And when I get there, he's just
• 1:00:00
  number two hitter and the number leadoff hitters up.
• 1:00:02
  I'm setting it all of a sudden I get tapped on the shoulder and
• 1:00:05
  there's an FBI agent. You interviewed me a few years
• 1:00:07
  before he says, can you come with me?
• 1:00:09
  And I turned the corner of like six, mmm, and they didn't need
• 1:00:13
  to do that in front of my own. That's horrible.
• 1:00:15
  And they took me to Jennings to hold place where I spent the
• 1:00:19
  night with a guy who could his son the same age?
• 1:00:21
  They thought I was non-trump, cuz I'm walking in a suit and
• 1:00:24
  actually my belt, which one, but best.
• 1:00:25
  If my wife ever gave me got stolen that night, my Gucci.
• 1:00:28
  Oh, my Who's got stolen amazingly, amazing.
• 1:00:30
  Yeah. And, and this place.
• 1:00:32
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 1:00:33
  It was Security in cameras and antique belt buckle.
• 1:00:36
  So, this day, I'm angry about the only thing I'm really angry
• 1:00:38
  about their belt buckle my bubble, as I wanted to give to
• 1:00:41
  my son. So I spent 18 days in jail
• 1:00:44
  because I had to prove Brent. I want a Flight Risk because now
• 1:00:48
  when they put you through your arraignment, my lawyers, like,
• 1:00:51
  what you're gonna get out, and they go, well, we found mr.
• 1:00:54
  Hayes's, passport on him, and it appears that he was in position
• 1:00:58
  A fly. Hmm.
• 1:00:59
  Why wouldn't go anywhere? I was doing what they told me
• 1:01:01
  that everything they do. They twist sir it.
• 1:01:05
  What people don't realize is, you know, our most people don't
• 1:01:09
  realize is there's your story and my story and then the truth
• 1:01:12
  is in between exactly. And I'm not saying they're
• 1:01:14
  lying, right? But they don't bitch all pieces,
• 1:01:17
  right? They do what they want to tell
• 1:01:18
  it's him. So I spent 18 days in the county
• 1:01:19
  jail so long time in the county jail in St.
• 1:01:22
  Charles, but I see in the movies, I did very well actually
• 1:01:25
  they ended up calling me Kevin McHale because I play
• 1:01:27
  basketball. This guy's on a basketball court
• 1:01:29
  knows the only white guy of the Kill Ya and Boston Celtics,
• 1:01:33
  yeah. For the few non basketball fans,
• 1:01:35
  so I did that for eight days and then I went out on pretrial and
• 1:01:37
  what I didn't have when I was on pretrial was one, I get out, I
• 1:01:41
  get out, I go to one of my partner's condo, they gave me to
• 1:01:45
  live in, and I go up to take a shower, you know, I've taken one
• 1:01:48
  every day, but now to take a shower and the doorbell rings
• 1:01:51
  and I go downstairs of town. I get served with divorce
• 1:01:53
  papers. Oh man, so my day in going real
• 1:01:55
  well, but what I didn't get for my lawyer because he His
• 1:01:58
  criminal all, but really in this for time is I start off with a
• 1:02:02
  pre-trial officer. That doesn't care what I do.
• 1:02:04
  And I end up one that cares about everything about six
• 1:02:07
  months in and so, and that can happen is very common.
• 1:02:09
  Oh yeah, they trains like yeah they change like the like today
• 1:02:12
  just had a conversation the other day.
• 1:02:14
  It was somebody that had had that happen to him.
• 1:02:16
  So almost a year to the day from when I was arrested the first
• 1:02:21
  time I go down, they said you need to come in which you saw
• 1:02:23
  him once a month. Just in a few times, I gonna go
• 1:02:26
  down here and then I sat down and then do you Marshalls come
• 1:02:28
  in and cut the arm down as you're under arrest.
• 1:02:31
  Mmm, I get a rebound pretrial at this point I get a rain a couple
• 1:02:34
  hours later and actually, that was the best thing that ever
• 1:02:38
  happened to me. Because when I get to the rest
• 1:02:42
  of the story, you'll figure out why.
• 1:02:43
  But part of it was, doesn't sound good?
• 1:02:45
  No, it's good. Because I was chewin up time,
• 1:02:47
  okay? You know you your what, you
• 1:02:50
  know, every those 18 days counted, which I didn't know.
• 1:02:52
  Okay, at that point. And from the time they arrested
• 1:02:54
  me in April of 17 starts accounting but they Don't talk
• 1:02:58
  to me until Thanksgiving so I said, seven months and why did
• 1:03:02
  they, why did they arrest you? They said you were violating the
• 1:03:06
  terms of your supervision are your pretrial, which would have
• 1:03:10
  been exhibit were business things and what they said was,
• 1:03:15
  is it? I had a friend that was a very
• 1:03:18
  good friend and a long time and he said, we don't have a job,
• 1:03:21
  you're a consultant. So I said, I was a consultant,
• 1:03:23
  right? Well, they want you to have a 40
• 1:03:25
  hour, 30 are not a consultant job, right?
• 1:03:27
  You don't want you to Working independently or be a
• 1:03:30
  consultant, right? And they like, they always do a
• 1:03:32
  woman. And I, by the way, I so it
• 1:03:34
  probably wasn't a problem with one of the probation officers.
• 1:03:37
  But it was a turn in. We're going to put him in the
• 1:03:40
  county, jail, on the other one. Exactly Incorrect.
• 1:03:42
  And here's the best choice, I hate quit banking not because I
• 1:03:45
  quit because I was tired. Yeah.
• 1:03:48
  Then a few years later, like, three year, I got banned, which
• 1:03:50
  is fine. I didn't care about then.
• 1:03:51
  I didn't care what right over with that.
• 1:03:54
  A lifelong friend had sent me an email with her mortgage payment,
• 1:03:58
  And she's and said, should I react when she said, call me one
• 1:04:02
  day and said Sancho refinances? I don't know.
• 1:04:04
  I said, I need to know your interest rate.
• 1:04:05
  How much, you know, because you know if you don't know but
• 1:04:07
  80,000 serves it didn't worth it and if you're just raised four
• 1:04:10
  percent of didn't worth it, right?
• 1:04:11
  She emailed me, her bill That man.
• 1:04:14
  I was in the banking business. Wow.
• 1:04:16
  I mean you can just yeah, no, no, I get it.
• 1:04:18
  I get it. I understand.
• 1:04:19
  And then they can do that. That's fair game and I was
• 1:04:22
  stupid enough to have it. How long did they, how long did
• 1:04:26
  you live in the county jail? Well, I spent the first seven
• 1:04:30
  months, you know, communication from the from the US attorney.
• 1:04:35
  Nothing. You're just in time.
• 1:04:36
  Just in and and I did not, what is your attorney saying?
• 1:04:40
  Well, you know that, you know, they're, you know, it's there by
• 1:04:42
  stalling Yugi. It's the game.
• 1:04:44
  They play. And so what happens along the
• 1:04:48
  way is is that why I get my by yet Bond reinstatement denied
• 1:04:53
  and all that? By the way, that was on the
• 1:04:55
  internet before I got told that, you know, you know, my ex-wife
• 1:04:58
  got to tell me on the phone your case and I'll get know, I don't
• 1:05:01
  get to go to court yet to get denied I'm denied and which was
• 1:05:04
  again, is it ends up being? Okay.
• 1:05:07
  But, so finally around Thanksgiving, they say we want
• 1:05:11
  to negotiate and the reason why we became What was a hearing in
• 1:05:15
  early December? And it was to bifurcate my trial
• 1:05:18
  from my co-defendant. Well, he had been and he had, he
• 1:05:24
  had done a contract for Deeds on houses.
• 1:05:26
  You're a real estate business. You understand that?
• 1:05:29
  And he wouldn't pay in the bank. Oh, 212.
• 1:05:31
  Families were losing their homes because him and my lawyer said,
• 1:05:36
  here's what's going to happen. If they took the money, didn't
• 1:05:38
  pay the bank. Exactly.
• 1:05:39
  Okay. And he said, he said, here's
• 1:05:41
  what's going to happen, John. If the trial gets Bifurcated,
• 1:05:45
  your case is so complicated, you're probably going to win,
• 1:05:48
  okay? He said, but if you set there
• 1:05:52
  and they bring 212 families in here, you're in trouble, your
• 1:05:55
  dad cause you're the same table. Exactly.
• 1:05:57
  They didn't bifurcated trial. So, I had to plead guilty.
• 1:06:00
  I was guilty, but you're willing to gamble, right?
• 1:06:02
  When you got a high probability. Sure.
• 1:06:04
  And he said, Not only that but you get at least 20 years that's
• 1:06:08
  the minimums long time. So we started negotiating and
• 1:06:13
  finally cut a deal at the end of the year and so but they kept I
• 1:06:18
  was supposed to get sins in April then became May finally
• 1:06:20
  the end of May, I got got sentenced, but here's the kind
• 1:06:23
  of thing again, my lawyer, you know, me not want to bother
• 1:06:26
  because only thirty thousand dollars and to I thought that I
• 1:06:31
  was, he's 46 months. Now, there's a category of 37 to
• 1:06:35
  46 months. And then the next one is like,
• 1:06:38
  47 to 50, for something like that.
• 1:06:40
  You've seen those sheets. I know, well, I'm thinking I'm
• 1:06:42
  in the 37 to 46 months. Mmm, so on May 23rd of 2017
• 1:06:49
  after at then, fifth 13 months in the 13 months, in the county,
• 1:06:54
  jail a month before. So I've got 14 months, in
• 1:06:56
  County, Jail near a Warren County Jail, which I was at, and
• 1:06:58
  that is not good. Well, it's a total.
• 1:07:00
  It's a hard way to live. It is our we're seeing is it's
• 1:07:03
  made for 24 people. Yeah.
• 1:07:05
  There's 36 guy sleeps on the floor.
• 1:07:07
  Yeah, plastic thing. And when somebody gets up at
• 1:07:10
  night to go to the bathroom, they have to be together.
• 1:07:12
  It's right there, right there with them.
• 1:07:13
  And not only that, I didn't go outside for, for 14 months
• 1:07:18
  months, you can't go outside. When you go to jail, you go from
• 1:07:20
  one port to another Port. You never go outside, right?
• 1:07:23
  Always Shackled. But the people there were very
• 1:07:25
  know. I never went to court by this.
• 1:07:26
  The other thing is I never went to court when I got to prison
• 1:07:28
  high school, he was huge. In cuffed, I said, I didn't want
• 1:07:31
  Court, I wouldn't Shackled and they go.
• 1:07:34
  Well, we didn't have that, but ninety percent of White Collar
• 1:07:36
  people. I met in person, never never,
• 1:07:38
  never been handcuffed. I was shocked about the
• 1:07:40
  shackling because I went through that for the Civil Trial and
• 1:07:44
  they took me where you've explained in your book, The
• 1:07:46
  bowels of the Eagleton building, which nobody knows about.
• 1:07:49
  Unless you brought in the way we were brought him, but yeah, that
• 1:07:54
  shackle and thing. There's nothing more
• 1:07:56
  dehumanizing than that, and it got to beat by the type in there
• 1:07:59
  so long. At the end, they used to take
• 1:08:00
  your handcuffs off, but by the end, there been so many fights,
• 1:08:04
  they kept your shackles and you would be in there from 6:00 7:00
• 1:08:07
  a.m. until 4:00 5:00 p.m. And then you got to write an
• 1:08:10
  hour and check old in a, in an uncomfortable, this not good,
• 1:08:13
  but all that stuff. Again, I could I could deal with
• 1:08:15
  because I do. I don't ride dealt with Warren
• 1:08:18
  County, Jail, like High School in, small-town highschool, we
• 1:08:22
  had fed people, we had State people, and we'd County people.
• 1:08:26
  You never sit down to eat because you had to be ready to
• 1:08:29
  fight. So you ate your food, stand up
• 1:08:31
  in a moment. There's a fistfight.
• 1:08:33
  There's one every day. Yep.
• 1:08:34
  Usually over the some drink, the drink TV that the only TV.
• 1:08:38
  There's, I mean, I finally after about 90 days here and one
• 1:08:43
  African-American friend of mine beating to other, I got to
• 1:08:46
  control the TV on Saturdays between like 8.
• 1:08:50
  A.m. That's a big deal.
• 1:08:51
  Yeah, 21. And then a few months later I
• 1:08:53
  got to control from 8 to 1 every day and I have to tell you a
• 1:08:57
  funny story, the TV stayed on 24 hours a day on 100, the highest
• 1:09:03
  level could be so you couldn't think anywhere forgive the noise
• 1:09:05
  out there but all night long. Have you played really loud?
• 1:09:08
  Yeah really loud and really high up really high butts.
• 1:09:11
  One night, the guy who controlled the flipper for a few
• 1:09:14
  minutes, put it on a channel and I don't know what happened to
• 1:09:19
  the show is watching but it played Mayberry, you know our
• 1:09:22
  trainee Griffin from 11 p.m. until 8 a.m. wow.
• 1:09:26
  It was hilarious because that didn't go over well with our my
• 1:09:29
  spirit. But, you know, there was a fight
• 1:09:32
  every day over something and you just get through that.
• 1:09:34
  But it got to what you adapted. And I think that's one of the
• 1:09:36
  things that you learn when you're going through this whole
• 1:09:39
  thing because you've gone from being the most powerful guy in
• 1:09:42
  the banking business, to selling out to living the life being
• 1:09:47
  picked up in private jets. And now, you are wondering how
• 1:09:52
  you're going to turn the channel on the TV because a guy's got
• 1:09:55
  the clicker and Fight every day. And it's a different world that
• 1:10:00
  you can adapt to. Yes, that's what's interesting.
• 1:10:04
  People think that, well, I always say nothing is as bad as
• 1:10:09
  your mind, makes it out to be, not even present and jail is.
• 1:10:13
  It's almost as bad as you might can make it out to be, but your
• 1:10:18
  mind can build up so many different things that stop you
• 1:10:21
  from doing things in life, right?
• 1:10:24
  And if people would just know that, That it's going to be all
• 1:10:27
  right, because you can adapt to it.
• 1:10:28
  Absolutely. As so well said, and that's the
• 1:10:31
  whole experience, and I self punish myself.
• 1:10:34
  In this regard, I didn't realize this because I hadn't been the
• 1:10:37
  situation, but everything's about commissary in jail and a,
• 1:10:40
  yeah, I know, in the 15 months old.
• 1:10:42
  I spent, you know, how much money in commissary 0.
• 1:10:45
  Yeah, I wouldn't let anybody send me any money because I
• 1:10:49
  thought it was it was a horrible thing anyway.
• 1:10:52
  But I watch these guys, who, you know, didn't have anything take
• 1:10:55
  money from their You didn't have anything to have something.
• 1:10:58
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:10:59
  And I got stuff because they call me Google.
• 1:11:01
  Yeah. They need an answer.
• 1:11:02
  They can you make it? So they can mean anything?
• 1:11:05
  Answer. One morning, it's like 2:00 in
• 1:11:06
  the morning. I'm sound asleep and they can't
• 1:11:08
  get out. But they scream loud enough that
• 1:11:09
  they wake up one of my cell mates, that they go go through
• 1:11:11
  door. How many times you Google and
• 1:11:14
  pod? Father.
• 1:11:15
  Oh yeah. And literally I was in The
• 1:11:17
  Godfather kill free. People realized he could have
• 1:11:21
  got ten years instead. He went to trial got like 400
• 1:11:23
  there you go but but Noah How many home runs did somebody hit
• 1:11:27
  me? When I answered a question, I
• 1:11:28
  went back to school. The next day, I get soups and
• 1:11:31
  never needed anything. You got that, you got it from
• 1:11:33
  work in your system and you got respect in this.
• 1:11:35
  It's okay. So you finally Sean, you get out
• 1:11:38
  of this horrible environment to go to prison.
• 1:11:42
  Yeah, and I'm sure you probably knew the prison was going to be
• 1:11:46
  better because there were probably people telling you in
• 1:11:48
  that pod that this is really, really bad worst place on our.
• 1:11:52
  Yeah. You will have a place that you
• 1:11:54
  could live, that will be prison. But it won't be like this.
• 1:11:59
  Walk me through you finally get to Marion, you're on a bus the
• 1:12:05
  bunch of people, they drop you off as you explain it.
• 1:12:09
  What happens? Well, I write a bus from from
• 1:12:13
  the Mid-America airport which by the way.
• 1:12:14
  That's where everybody has an AR-15.
• 1:12:15
  It's Con Air lands. Yes.
• 1:12:17
  And I don't know what I'm doing but they don't finally.
• 1:12:19
  I figured I said I get on that bus considering this house is
• 1:12:21
  old snub-nosed School Bus. There's guys with guns and
• 1:12:24
  rifles and I get on there. I'm the only non sex offender on
• 1:12:28
  the Bus. Oh no.
• 1:12:30
  Which is a whole another story. Yeah, that's a whole nother
• 1:12:32
  level of discomfort people are. Yeah, we're chain.
• 1:12:35
  But they're like, some of them are really changing.
• 1:12:37
  So we stopped and Mary, and we pulled from the prison and I get
• 1:12:43
  out they get and they say he's come here.
• 1:12:46
  They uncaf me and shackle me and they said, okay, and I'm
• 1:12:49
  standing I'm like, Wow, and his son, it was the first day of
• 1:12:51
  summer, can't imagine. I'm like I can't bummer a year.
• 1:12:54
  You haven't been out in the sun and all of a sudden, a minivan
• 1:12:57
  pulls up and it's a guy, which scared me to death because how,
• 1:13:00
  he drove that little distance on the wrong side of the road
• 1:13:03
  going, 40 miles an hour, when it should've been 15, and we go
• 1:13:06
  across to the prison and we get to get out.
• 1:13:08
  And I get out and out in front. There's like six or seven guys
• 1:13:11
  who turned themselves in that day.
• 1:13:13
  Bleating surrendered, right? They got to drive it.
• 1:13:15
  It's like a guy came in when I was there the second time and he
• 1:13:18
  said, I render Enterprise car Chicago and from down, he was
• 1:13:20
  there for Securities fraud and he said, I stopped Enterprise.
• 1:13:24
  And this young man comes that's going to help you study law.
• 1:13:26
  He goes, you just work. And I take you and he goes, I
• 1:13:28
  need to go to prison cause what prison he goes.
• 1:13:30
  There's like twenty two hundred men down and his kid was like he
• 1:13:33
  was still writing killing me because this kid was scared to
• 1:13:35
  death isn't funny story. So I walk in in this is where I
• 1:13:39
  won't get emotional because I've had a chance to prepare for this
• 1:13:41
  but An Asian man. Who's an orderly for.
• 1:13:46
  The secretary looks at me and he goes your Hayes.
• 1:13:49
  And I said, yesterday he goes Cassidy wants to tell you
• 1:13:51
  everything's good. Now I admit your dad one time
• 1:13:57
  almost well 30-plus years. Sure.
• 1:14:00
  Yeah. In a driveway for 10 minutes and
• 1:14:04
  it was just like the world change and so they take in and
• 1:14:06
  they give you the stuff and I go down to them.
• 1:14:09
  To the dorm because I called marrying a bad summer camp.
• 1:14:12
  Yeah. And and he had already planned,
• 1:14:17
  and I had this great bunk in the right part of the area, against
• 1:14:20
  the wall and everything, I had all kinds of stuff and you'll
• 1:14:23
  don't realize what's tough. Is it set up everything set up
• 1:14:26
  for me and all of a sudden it's time to line up to go eat and so
• 1:14:32
  you know, they dismiss us and so I'm thinking okay, well at least
• 1:14:34
  I'll get childhood which the food there was very good and be
• 1:14:37
  because oh no Sean we're not going there.
• 1:14:39
  And so, we walked by, we walked all clear across.
• 1:14:41
  It went outside twice to the gym and there's a table and we had
• 1:14:46
  steaks and baked potatoes and it wasn't.
• 1:14:49
  He wasn't, you want salad dressing.
• 1:14:50
  You want Furniture? Do you want thousand?
• 1:14:52
  I don't even vinaigrette and we ate in the next night, we went
• 1:14:55
  over, we had steak fajitas, because in the states, they
• 1:14:57
  didn't you feed us at night like King and by this was all
• 1:15:00
  prepared by inmates. And I, your dad could not have
• 1:15:05
  been more gracious he gave we shared, we must have walked A
• 1:15:09
  thousand miles in the months. We were there and had so many
• 1:15:13
  things in common. He loves you and your daughters
• 1:15:17
  in your brother morning, anything the world.
• 1:15:20
  And finally, after we both end up in school, I'm going for a
• 1:15:23
  reason. He just broke down one day and
• 1:15:25
  just told me everything and he just he was so brokenhearted and
• 1:15:32
  I know he just wanted you all to know how much he loved you and
• 1:15:35
  how sorry he was, but he was a wonderful man and we had a ton
• 1:15:39
  of fun together. I can't imagine the two of you
• 1:15:42
  because eventually, I think he shared, space bunk bed and you
• 1:15:47
  know, two guys from there that are kind of conquered the world
• 1:15:50
  and there you were, well, after six weeks later, I said he was.
• 1:15:53
  Now, my guy is leaving Frey was his name, these sunbathe all day
• 1:15:57
  that was tracing, he said when Trey leaves you're moving over
• 1:16:00
  here and and and I I gave up position but not really.
• 1:16:03
  Yeah, I didn't care by then I'd figured it all out and we had a
• 1:16:06
  great time and we talk politics and religion.
• 1:16:09
  Yeah, fine. And you know, I think that's the
• 1:16:11
  thing that's really, you know, I had a couple of guys like that
• 1:16:15
  and that really does help your time.
• 1:16:17
  You know, you if you they call it your car, you know, the three
• 1:16:20
  or four people that you hang out with, but walking and sharing
• 1:16:24
  books, and being able to carry a conversation and talk feel like
• 1:16:29
  you is really what it is. You don't because that was
• 1:16:32
  always, my thought is I guess, more scared that I was going to
• 1:16:38
  lose me and going to prison. And the more you do what you and
• 1:16:41
  Dad did you were being yourselves.
• 1:16:44
  You were in prison, but you were talking to the world.
• 1:16:46
  And by the way, your dad was afraid of no one and you know
• 1:16:49
  what? Well, you didn't need to be in
• 1:16:50
  fear, there wasn't like, County jail but he'd had a few, he did
• 1:16:54
  onions. But in this story, I've never
• 1:16:56
  told anyone. Yeah.
• 1:16:57
  But so it's August. I'd been there for a couple
• 1:17:00
  months and I never TV because I don't watch TV and in want you
• 1:17:03
  to homes when I'm going to watch it there.
• 1:17:05
  And so, my nephew is in a golf tournament and he's in really
• 1:17:12
  good position and a TV. There are kind of owned by
• 1:17:18
  certain groups. As you know, if people put their
• 1:17:19
  pillows in a chair, if you ask what you're gonna sit in, you
• 1:17:23
  can't sit in somebody's face and I didn't want the aggravation,
• 1:17:25
  right? So, but all of a sudden it's,
• 1:17:29
  you know, it's set Sunday afternoon.
• 1:17:30
  It's about 4:00 Talk and it's something good.
• 1:17:33
  So I go down to the one TV that never leaves CNN.
• 1:17:36
  Now, there's like 20 of them because I go down there and your
• 1:17:39
  dad's right behind me because he loved Golf.
• 1:17:42
  And I said we're going to change TV and Douglas his nephews going
• 1:17:46
  to want a golf tournament right now.
• 1:17:47
  And we're changing TV and nobody's going to and I mean
• 1:17:49
  literally he just took interesting.
• 1:17:50
  Okay. Doug of course they're all 30
• 1:17:52
  years younger for sure. Yeah, and fifty pounds over G
• 1:17:55
  but we turn the TV on. We watching anyone.
• 1:17:58
  It was a wonderful thing. By that time we had like 30
• 1:18:00
  people, click cheering that Also, I've never seen golf, but
• 1:18:02
  it was fun and he just did those kind of things.
• 1:18:05
  He does wonderful. We ate breakfast, lunch and
• 1:18:07
  dinner together for eight months and then I met him in Pensacola.
• 1:18:12
  Yeah. And then you guys both went to
• 1:18:13
  Pensacola for the rdap program which as you explained it I
• 1:18:18
  think because there's a lot of different opinions on our tap, I
• 1:18:25
  have my own and I feel like there's there's some very good
• 1:18:28
  things that come out of it. Think that maybe it's rational
• 1:18:33
  behavioral thinking is what it is and You, I almost think you
• 1:18:39
  should teach in high school II. Said, Middle School?
• 1:18:41
  I could agree more. Yeah, it changed me in this
• 1:18:44
  regard. I've always been a fast thinker
• 1:18:46
  and it plays well, but now, you know, this term, I think about
• 1:18:48
  my thinking, I knew it just as fast.
• 1:18:50
  Sure. Then I'll think about it.
• 1:18:51
  Yeah. And it should be taught in
• 1:18:53
  middle school, high school because it's the only thing that
• 1:18:56
  I experienced in prison. That was of any value.
• 1:18:59
  Exactly. That's exactly.
• 1:19:00
  That was my point. It had all the things that has
• 1:19:05
  some value to it. Yeah, it does.
• 1:19:07
  And You know, it depends on who it's taught by, who the people
• 1:19:10
  are and all that and the how the program's run.
• 1:19:12
  It's pretty much like a cult that you get into with our debt
• 1:19:15
  but I didn't mind. It cult would be an
• 1:19:18
  understatement. Of course, your dad comes down
• 1:19:21
  and now then I'm the OG because I've been there for a month
• 1:19:24
  before he got here. Yeah.
• 1:19:25
  And and I first day I went on my.
• 1:19:27
  Oh my God. They got these chance to get
• 1:19:29
  their stuff and you can't do this.
• 1:19:31
  You can't do that. Yeah.
• 1:19:32
  This in your been to prison inside a prison.
• 1:19:34
  Well, and by the way, you know, we didn't know if it was a whale
• 1:19:36
  ever warn you. We never slept you slip on top
• 1:19:39
  of your bunk. Oh gosh.
• 1:19:40
  Yeah, you can and you can get in your sheets.
• 1:19:42
  Yeah, you get anything and I'm thinking I hear, I'm finally in
• 1:19:45
  the military and so that's it. But you mentioned something
• 1:19:49
  about my journey? Yeah, earlier, and we talked
• 1:19:52
  about about County jails with that.
• 1:19:53
  But and, and, and you have this in your jeans and it's in your
• 1:19:57
  blood and it's in your DNA as we would say today.
• 1:20:01
  I had a secretary in 1983, she work for the vice chairman but
• 1:20:06
  because I said outside of his office, I used her and you were
• 1:20:09
  always in trouble there, it was very volatile, the family
• 1:20:12
  business. I've been public companies and
• 1:20:13
  family business. Yeah.
• 1:20:15
  And in those days we had copiers the size of this room and I
• 1:20:20
  would go to the copy room at night because I had to prepare
• 1:20:22
  my own stuff. And Peggy came in one night and
• 1:20:24
  she was probably 16 17 shoshana. She was I want to tell you
• 1:20:26
  something. She goes.
• 1:20:28
  I've been here 40 years. and she said, I've seen people come and
• 1:20:33
  people go she goes you're going to be up in life and you're
• 1:20:35
  going to be down but your cream cream always Rises to the top
• 1:20:39
  and I felt that with me now for 39 years from when Peggy told me
• 1:20:43
  but the week before I was sitting this I got a letter from
• 1:20:46
  my older nephew only have two and it like six seven sentences
• 1:20:53
  but the Crux of it was Sean you've had an unbelievable rise
• 1:20:57
  and a lot of people love that you've had a horrific Vic fall
• 1:21:01
  and all kinds of people love that but you will be back.
• 1:21:04
  And that's what they really love.
• 1:21:06
  And I have that letter. I love that I carry around a
• 1:21:09
  text me in my car in a file. I have a picture on my phone but
• 1:21:11
  that's that's what it is. People people like a good
• 1:21:14
  comeback you know and he went through some tough tough times
• 1:21:20
  and Health crisis. You know you you're not only had
• 1:21:24
  issues with the family and that but you also had a Health
• 1:21:28
  crisis. What was that?
• 1:21:29
  Like and Listen. Well, by the way, there is no
• 1:21:32
  health care and in fact I just do we still meet with the
• 1:21:35
  dentist because you know, dental care, right?
• 1:21:37
  Nothing right. And but the only thing that
• 1:21:40
  saved me and almost we almost got to this point a story
• 1:21:43
  before. But I'll get you there quicker,
• 1:21:45
  I went back to Mary and the weight, my last four months, I
• 1:21:48
  didn't get out one hour early because of covid or anything
• 1:21:51
  like that. Forget what the newspaper says
• 1:21:52
  because their horrific lie, inaccurate and have been
• 1:21:54
  forever. But what I was in Marion, I
• 1:21:58
  spent 10 days in February and eight days.
• 1:21:59
  And March in the hospital. A lot of it intensive care and
• 1:22:02
  they took great care of me. Good people, they couldn't
• 1:22:04
  figure out what was wrong with me.
• 1:22:05
  But when I was back there in in February, the doctor and come
• 1:22:10
  back, the first of April and he said, he says, you know, you're
• 1:22:14
  really sick and I said, I know that by see, here's a deal.
• 1:22:17
  I said, if you don't let me out of here, they won't let me out
• 1:22:22
  of prison on May 5th. And so, he said, I'm going to
• 1:22:25
  let you out. He and I got out, and I took
• 1:22:28
  Life Soul. Slowing.
• 1:22:30
  Enough that it wasn't until Easter Sunday of 21.
• 1:22:33
  When I got home from church, and I went to go up the stairs, and
• 1:22:36
  I can barely make it in my then ex-wife called.
• 1:22:38
  Now ex-wife called me and became very compassionate said you
• 1:22:42
  sound like you're going to die and I said, I'm going to be JC
• 1:22:44
  in the morning at 9:00. I'm really sick.
• 1:22:46
  And I got their 904 and I stayed five days and I had lymphoma was
• 1:22:51
  back. I'd had it, literally 10 years
• 1:22:52
  before and by October. I'd beaten that But you don't
• 1:22:58
  have an immune system and I did that, and then about
• 1:23:02
  Thanksgiving of last year. I got an infection and finger
• 1:23:05
  and then it turning in ammonia. And I didn't realize it.
• 1:23:08
  You can die with pneumonia without it.
• 1:23:10
  Yeah. And I didn't, I didn't realize
• 1:23:11
  that immune system, but my friends said we in so many
• 1:23:15
  people, Don, and, and Jim and Geoff brought me food and stuff.
• 1:23:19
  I did all kinds of on it but the bottom line was they said Jeff.
• 1:23:22
  So I thought you were going to die.
• 1:23:24
  That's why I was so nice, you know, it's hitting me.
• 1:23:26
  But it was true. And then finally, I got last
• 1:23:30
  mark, this March and I said, I got to live and, and and I will
• 1:23:35
  live and, and in the meantime what that did for me and this is
• 1:23:39
  amazing one and I want to come back to people in second, but I
• 1:23:42
  started dictating my book on an iPad in February and, and I have
• 1:23:46
  a Ghost Rider. Who's written several successful
• 1:23:49
  books under his own name and ghost, written some great books.
• 1:23:52
  Then every Friday for two hours, we go through what I sent him
• 1:23:55
  and after almost Months of that, we had a book and but that time
• 1:24:00
  down I spent to do that and I slept and slept and slept but I
• 1:24:03
  would do that, but what I've learned in this I want to back
• 1:24:06
  up because that Thanksgiving a year ago I called a guy that I
• 1:24:12
  had seen at the airport a lot. See him at events in St.
• 1:24:14
  Louis Shep hyken. Hmm.
• 1:24:16
  Well, Shep hyken. Absolutely and we had paid him
• 1:24:19
  in the fall of 98 in October. We paid him, five thousand
• 1:24:22
  dollars. That's a cheapy wasn't to come
• 1:24:23
  out and speak to our group in Phoenix.
• 1:24:26
  Hmm. And he did a wonderful job and I
• 1:24:28
  knew his brother through the club we belong to and I would.
• 1:24:30
  But you know, we just were no, we're not friends, but we passed
• 1:24:33
  and I call shape up and he couldn't have been more
• 1:24:34
  gracious. And then I said, I'm going to do
• 1:24:37
  this. I said, and, and in 2015, right?
• 1:24:40
  When I am, sure, I got knew I was going to get indicted, I
• 1:24:42
  called a woman in Dallas and she said, Sean, write a book and you
• 1:24:45
  have a speaking career and I said, I'm not that interesting
• 1:24:48
  and by 18, I convinced myself, I've read a lot of those books.
• 1:24:51
  Yeah, might be, I might be interesting.
• 1:24:52
  Might be, I don't know that it is and you've been very gracious
• 1:24:55
  with your comments, but the point is, I knew I was going to
• 1:24:57
  do that. Yeah, and then I got out and I
• 1:24:59
  did was sick and then I got to that point where I could do it.
• 1:25:01
  Hmm. So a lot of my drive now is and
• 1:25:04
  I know you've done this because I followed you.
• 1:25:07
  You've got that gold out there and I can see the goal.
• 1:25:10
  And so I'm after the goal and it's the same a joke, I'm a
• 1:25:14
  shadow of my former self and not really.
• 1:25:16
  Yeah. And so I've had all these
• 1:25:18
  wonderful experiences and what I, what I say in my dedication
• 1:25:21
  to my book is, you know, I want you to experience a Highs but I
• 1:25:26
  hope, Hope Anyone who reads just never experienced at Lowe's, and
• 1:25:29
  then they learn from those things.
• 1:25:30
  But what I want to point, I want to make was way ship treated me.
• 1:25:36
  So many people have it's so many other people have just been
• 1:25:40
  whatever you want to put them on a car on it, I won't.
• 1:25:43
  Yeah. And the other thing is is how
• 1:25:44
  many people will say something to you and say, oh, I'm going to
• 1:25:48
  do this or that and I know they're not, they're just trying
• 1:25:50
  to in the moment. Try since I'm trying to get away
• 1:25:51
  from, I don't care. See, that's a beautiful thing
• 1:25:54
  about the role, even down the way.
• 1:25:55
  I used to think. All those things that used to be
• 1:25:58
  important to me, I don't even care about anymore.
• 1:26:00
  Yeah, and that's a lie in the most free, man, I'm happy.
• 1:26:04
  Yeah, I'm very content. I'm not complacent right there
• 1:26:07
  are things. I difference there's things I
• 1:26:09
  want. Absolutely, is there anything I
• 1:26:11
  need to know? Yeah, and and I just, I look at
• 1:26:14
  life so differently. I think that one of the
• 1:26:17
  unbelievably great things that can happen when you've gone and
• 1:26:21
  you've hit rock bottom and you felt it and you kind of find
• 1:26:25
  your soul when that happens because you know, a lot of
• 1:26:27
  people think hitting rock bottom.
• 1:26:29
  Is the end and I think hitting rock, bottom can be a new
• 1:26:31
  beginning to find your passion again, and I think what's What I
• 1:26:36
  get excited about with your story, Shawn is that you have
• 1:26:39
  been through such a journey and it's who you what is made you
• 1:26:43
  who you are? And now you're going to go out
• 1:26:45
  and share that with people and you're going to be able to help
• 1:26:47
  people. You're going to be, I've seen
• 1:26:49
  the the videos you sent me, your a great Storyteller and you're
• 1:26:52
  going to be able to help people that are in the big corporate
• 1:26:55
  office, or you're going to be able to help people, that are
• 1:26:57
  the startup guys that are looking for that.
• 1:26:59
  Push that confidence, whatever that is, that gets you through
• 1:27:02
  that up and around and over your fears.
• 1:27:05
  That's It's what you have, you have that ingredient and I want
• 1:27:09
  to ask you to kind of wrap this up.
• 1:27:12
  Bean and living from the boy, from there to where you are
• 1:27:19
  today. What do you think is your
• 1:27:21
  biggest takeaway to the listeners out there?
• 1:27:25
  I think it life is about perseverance, it's never give
• 1:27:28
  up. Never give up, and it's in, and
• 1:27:31
  I watched so many people in so many ways in life, with his
• 1:27:33
  little things are big things they give up and they are, they
• 1:27:36
  forget, they have a dreamer. They don't pursue it and just
• 1:27:40
  can't give up. And, by the Way in 2008-9 when I
• 1:27:44
  thought it couldn't get any worse.
• 1:27:46
  You know we would something good would happen.
• 1:27:48
  And what I'm saying go home right now, let's lock up because
• 1:27:50
  it can only get worse but his bad as you think it is one.
• 1:27:53
  It can't be worse than we can't be worse to and you can realize
• 1:27:57
  those worst fears is. I love that intro to your show,
• 1:27:59
  but at the end is if you don't quit, you're going to win.
• 1:28:03
  Yeah. And that's that's all I can say.
• 1:28:05
  And that is such a great. I mean, that what a great
• 1:28:07
  because that's how you've lived your life.
• 1:28:09
  And and if you don't quit, It, you will win because you'll keep
• 1:28:14
  stepping and whatever you step you get more confidence and when
• 1:28:17
  you get more confidence you find Solutions and then that gets you
• 1:28:20
  to the next step. Gray stuff.
• 1:28:23
  Sean. I really appreciate you coming
• 1:28:25
  in today. Sharing your story.
• 1:28:26
  I loved your book for those. It's February 7th, right?
• 1:28:31
  Yes, sir. For those looking for a speaker
• 1:28:33
  out there. This guy's got all that wisdom
• 1:28:38
  and he's willing to share it. So what's the best way to get
• 1:28:42
  ahold of you Sean because I know you got a new website Sean
• 1:28:45
  Hayes.com or Sean you spell it sha un yes sir I actually
• 1:28:51
  joking. Sometimes I'll get some other.
• 1:28:53
  How do you spoken about? You're going to be Shawna spells
• 1:28:55
  his name. Yeah, right.
• 1:28:56
  And I spoke Cassidy Riley and I the team made that mistake and
• 1:29:06
  and you can I don't know if you whenever you'll be able to
• 1:29:09
  pre-order but you'll want to check this book out talking
• 1:29:13
  about books. I've got one too, I'm your
• 1:29:15
  success. And you can pick it up at
• 1:29:18
  Amazon, Barnes & Noble Walmart. And everybody who loved the
• 1:29:25
  likes on social, follow the show to go down and hit those
• 1:29:29
  buttons. Either on Spotify you can hit
• 1:29:32
  the hit the Bell on Apple. You hit the little three dots in
• 1:29:36
  the corner there and it'll say follow, leave me a message
• 1:29:41
  broadcast e.com. I love that.
• 1:29:42
  Love to go back and forth with the listeners sharing back and
• 1:29:46
  forth and I do vo. I'm in 200 prisons.
• 1:29:51
  Now, just to the last last couple of weeks, I'm really
• 1:29:53
  excited about that. I'm going to start having in the
• 1:29:56
  show notes for you guys, to be able to contact me back and
• 1:29:59
  forth so we can have a conversation as I used to say,
• 1:30:04
  when I was writing my e-mails back and forth from Leavenworth.
• 1:30:07
  Stay strong. I'll do the same nightmare
• 1:30:09
  success in and out. Sean Hayes.
• 1:30:11
  Thank you. Thank you, Brian. last couple of
• 1:29:52
  weeks, I'm really excited about that.
• 1:29:55
  I'm going to start having in the show notes for you guys, to be
• 1:29:58
  able to contact me back and forth so we can have a
• 1:30:01
  conversation as I used to say, when I was writing my e-mails
• 1:30:05
  back and forth from Leavenworth. Stay strong.
• 1:30:08
  I'll do the same nightmare success in and out.
• 1:30:10
  Sean Hayes. Thank you.
• 1:30:12
  Thank you, Brian.