Transcript

Jim Cascino · Calm Under Fire

Col. John Boggs: Well, good afternoon, good morning, good evening, wherever you are. I'm Colonel John Boggs. I am the president of Fortitude Consulting, which is an executive leadership development and executive coaching firm. And today I have with us is Jim Casino. And he has spent decades leading companies through growth, crisis, and transitions. He's a CEO or chairman. Well, as a chairman or CEO of more than a dozen organizations, a dozen folks across private, public and nonprofit sectors. And he has guided leaders through turnarounds, value creation and major strategic decisions. Today, he works closely with middle market executives, helping them focus on what matters most and perform under pressure. This conversation is about judgment. clarity and leadership when the stakes are real. Jim, welcome very much. Welcome. Thank you very much for being here. Jim Cascino: Thank you, John. I'm delighted to be here. As you know, I don't do podcasts, although I'm asked often, I don't do podcasts often, but I was so impressed with our conversation and those that we've had. said, John's the kind of guy I want to jump on board with. So that's why I'm here. I'm happy to be with you. Col. John Boggs: Well, thank you very much, Jim. Thank you very much. Well, do you mind if we just jump right in it? Okay. Jim, you've led organizations in very different situations. When did you first feel the true weight of leadership responsibility? Jim Cascino: Please do. You're right. I've run a lot of companies. think that the number now is 17. So it's kind of a big number. But the first real exposure to the weight of that leadership as a CEO. It's funny. It goes back probably to my very first CEO role where I had worked with the company 10 years under the tutelage of a brilliant, brilliant CEO. And he Col. John Boggs: Hmm What? Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: sent me to Stanford, he was a great coach along the way. And when he retired, I stepped into his role as the CEO of company. So I knew the company very, very well. And because of the time I had spent there and I knew what I was going to be doing. But the moment where that reality really struck home, believe it or not, was on 9-11. Col. John Boggs: Is it? Jim Cascino: And so that was I had been a CEO at that point for four years. So that gives you a sense of why I have all this gray hair. I'm an old guy. But when 9-Eleven hit and I was watching TV, getting ready to come to work, work on the West Coast and saw the the Twin Towers hit with the plane. And it was a. It was an unbelievable, difficult moment to say. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: What do I do? And I drove immediately, got dressed very rapidly, drove immediately to work. And we had about 500 employees in that facility. And ⁓ the first thing I do thinking on the drive to work, what do I do now? Because I knew they were already at work because of the early hour and we started very, very early on our warehouse work. Col. John Boggs: Hmm? Jim Cascino: And so I called everybody together and ⁓ gave a short talk, very short, ⁓ and sent them all home and said that your job in the next 24 hours is the exact same as mine. And that job is to learn, to understand what is happening. and for us to all, individually, uniquely, ourselves, and collectively as one, come to the conclusions of how are we going to respond. And I'm not going to give you directions at this point other than hug your kids, love your family, and spend the time you need to spend to get your head around it, just as I will be trying to do my own. Col. John Boggs: Wow. Jim Cascino: so that when we come back tomorrow morning, we'll know where to go and we'll join forces and make it happen. But right now it's too raw. The most important thing is taking care of your loved ones and yourself as we prepare for what is right at this moment, an unknown destiny. it's funny, I get recognition from that day and the next day, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: Every once in a while, I'll get a note or an email or something from somebody who was there and complimented the way I had handled that. But I think that to your answer your question and not be too long-winded was a monumental day when the weight of leadership was squarely and unexpectedly on my shoulders. Col. John Boggs: Wow, Jim, that is a that's that shows an incredible level of sensitivity. And forethought, I mean, you're absolutely right. Jim Cascino: Well, it wasn't forethought, it was intuition. Well, you don't plan for a 9-11. I mean, we plan for contingencies, but we don't plan for one of that magnitude. And the one that was so societally enormous for all Americans at that moment in time, it was relying on intuition and all the things that I had learned and done in my earlier career in life. Col. John Boggs: Intuition? Okay. No, you really don't. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: to take you to that moment. Now, the fact of the matter is, John, my reaction at that moment through very good fortune seemed to be the right one, but it might have been the wrong one. And that speaks in so many loud terms about leadership. You are making judgments based on your experiences, the world that you have lived in, that you have grown up in. Col. John Boggs: ⁓ I'll say, yeah. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: the decisions you made, the good ones and the bad ones, you come to a point of ideally wisdom. But frankly, my choices that day were also supported by luck. Because it happened to be in my hindsight, all these years later, it happened to be the right judgments, not the wrong ones. So luck was on my side that day. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. That, well, that is, I mean, that's a almost stop and take in what you just said. That was just amazing. That was just amazing. I can't imagine that you didn't receive a lot of comments about that and it had to be phenomenal, just phenomenal. Well, Jim, go ahead, please tell me. Jim Cascino: I think a leader needs to be prepared for contingencies that you don't expect. And the preparedness comes from the world experience you have had. More than anything that is from a textbook. It comes from your learned experience. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm Jim you've worked around you've worked You've worked in turnaround environments Where time and options are limited? So what changes in a leader what changes in a leader when when the pressure becomes? urgent rather than theoretical Jim Cascino: It may or may not change in a leader, but it clearly becomes the most vital component of how he navigates that crisis is clarity. Clarity of options around clarity of an assessment. What is the situation? Is it urgent? Is it important? Col. John Boggs: Hmm. Jim Cascino: where on your hierarchy of need does it fall and should it fall? ⁓ And I would say that a leader, an effective leader in a crisis situation needs to slow down to speed up. The inclination is to speed up, to make a quick decision, to do something fast, to show to the marketplace, to your people, to your board, to your shareholders that you are an active CEO in control. But a lot of times speeding up is the worst thing you can do. Col. John Boggs: Yeah. Jim Cascino: because you may or may not have ⁓ embraced and understood all of the possibilities of information that are for you out there to look at. So you almost have to slow down to speed up. That doesn't mean you take two days to make a decision. It means that you take a deep breath. You ⁓ take a moment to reflect on what it is you need to understand more. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: before you can make that decision. The game plan is really kind of simple, but it's not easy to execute. The game plan would be, you need to assess with clear eyes. You need to put on the side burner all of those paradigms and belief systems that have gotten you here and say, let's put those aside. I'm gonna really rely on my gut. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: and my learned experience of how do I approach this? So it has to be with clear eyes. Number two, you have to develop a clear goal. What is it that you're trying to do? It's not five goals. It's not 10 goals. Is my job here to keep my company doors open? Whatever it may be, it's the macro goal. And it takes a lot of thinking around what is that macro goal. Third, you need to build a plan to capitalize on all of your available resources. Col. John Boggs: Mmm. Jim Cascino: and spread the load to the degree it is possible so that you can get more done faster. And that includes coming to a ⁓ sense of where do I need resources that I don't have. A lot of times after the delegation of responsibility in a crisis, ⁓ calling on resources that you need that you don't have is the smartest move. Someone who has been here before. ⁓ Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: The ⁓ and then quite simply, it's communicate, communicate, communicate. You communicate the situation in clear, brief terms that everybody can understand, not in jargon and mumbo jumbo, but in simple, accurate terms around that cleared eye assessment of what's really happening and what's going on. And then you get to work. You you get everybody working that is appropriate to be working on this challenge. And some are not. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: Summer, get back to job, keep doing what you're doing. That's the right thing to do. But you guys over here, I need you to help me do X, Y, and Z. This is what your jobs are going to be. ⁓ Communicate, monitor, adjust as necessary, communicate again. Get through the crisis and communicate. And the communication is really the news of the win. The team pulled it off. You didn't. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: The team pulled it off. You guided it. I have one of my favorite definitions of leadership. It's so simple. It is you present a compelling vision of the future and ask for volunteers. And that's so different than so many people think. So many people think it is really you delegate, you direct, you are firm, you are the Col. John Boggs: ⁓ Jim Cascino: standard bearer of fortitude. But my view today has shifted over many, many years and many experiences, John, and it is more that every person that works for you is a volunteer in that assignment. And you must treat them as a volunteer with respect, with communication, with guidance, with leadership. So in a crisis, Bringing people on board through a dictatorial demand is not often the right approach because what you want is their unbridled commitment to getting the job done at whatever cost it takes around your compelling vision of that future where you're heading. I had a, you mentioned I ran a crisis management and turnaround business and I want to, I think answer your question in a little bit. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: more depth would be helpful. That business was really fascinating. It was not a lot of fun, but it was fascinating because you were forced into a situation or sometimes you didn't force yourself and you were just beckoned to come in and help because a CEO is at a loss. What do I do? I was the outside resource that would come in. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: And the first thing I would need to do is assure the CEO had a clear-eyed assessment of where things were. And often that's not the case. Often the CEO brings to the table all of the history in working in that organization and company and makes judgments on what he or she can or cannot do or has the resources to do or not do, et cetera, et et cetera. So most of the clients we worked, all the clients we worked with. were on the brink of bankruptcy because their bank loans were being called, the banks were unsatisfied, they would lose capital, they would lose lines of credit, they would be forced to pay back, they did not have the cash to pay back. They were on the brink of bankruptcy often within hours. And so the first, the magic to that consultancy, this sounds so terrible, but the magic of that consultancy is I had to have facts Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: so that I could show them what death looks like and offer them illness. Because a CEO is not inclined to accept illness as the outcome. But when death is the alternative, illness sounds a whole lot better. So I would need to convince them. I would need to assure that I gave them a clear-eyed assessment of what was facing in order to have them engage to the degree I needed to. Col. John Boggs: Mmm. Oof. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: to pull them out of the fire that they were in. And the good news of that was we never lost a client to bankruptcy, ever. But that was the secret. I'm sorry, it sounds like kind of a scary thing to share, but it is a very important one in that particular business, how it kind of worked. Sorry I'm so long-winded in my storytelling. Col. John Boggs: Wow. Wow. No, that was a great story. Are you kidding? That was fabulous. I love it. Because you mentioned, I call them my cardinal sins of leadership. People will call me in and I'll stop and I can almost close my eyes and say it's there's one of five things and God forbid it's multiple of these of these things. It's it's friendliness. We have an issue with being too friendly. I found a lot of CEOs will bring people in that they worked with here or there and they're really the wrong person for that particular job, but they put them in there and now they don't know what to do to get rid of. Well, you know, he's my friend. Yeah. So they get stuck. They get jammed with that. The second thing, they work too far into the weeds. And they're not paying attention to, you know, the it's 80 % look out. Jim Cascino: Yep. Col. John Boggs: 80 % now look in 20 % and they have it all flipped around they're all So focused in what's going on that they're getting in the way They're getting in the way which leads to micromanagement which leads to here we go Communications issues. I mean, ⁓ my god Communion and you you said communications at least six times here Jim Cascino: Yeah. Yeah, you can, I suppose, over communicate, but I've not run into a situation where I've discovered that. Col. John Boggs: God bless you. have not run into that either. It's always been a lack of communications. You can never communicate too much, but it's that lack and people start filling in the blanks with guessing and which leads to down a whole other route. But this is a myth. Jim Cascino: Yeah. That's why I also, John, go back to this idea of compelling vision of the future and asking for volunteers. You would never treat a volunteer the way some CEOs would treat their employees. And if you reverse that and say, treat them like a volunteer, like they have a choice in the mix, which they do, ⁓ to bring them along, to help them understand, to see the vision that you have and understand it so that they embrace it. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: as their vision, that's where you get the commitment to climb great mountains with the limited resources that all companies have. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wow. Treat them like volunteers. That's a double asterisk note there. Well, and the next thing which kind of rolls right into, and you mentioned it briefly, but that's decision making. When you've been involved in numerous ⁓ &A transactions, and so what does good decision making look like when information is incomplete and consequences are significant? So what is good decision making? Jim Cascino: That's an interesting question. In M &A transactions, which are a different type, and I've done 16, 17 of those in my career as well. But when in M &A world, it's very, very easy to get distracted by or to trip over pebbles of sand. Col. John Boggs: Ahem. Jim Cascino: And what's very important, because you're dealing in a pretty large transaction, you're dealing with really smart people with a variety of different needs, wants and wishes. And even tactically, some of them are throwing pebbles of sand in front of you to see if you'll trip to win the bigger issues. So what's most important is to focus, to keep yourself disciplined, to focus on what really matters. ⁓ What matters most of the time is getting the deal done. And the deal done in the most favorable way to you and your constituents and your employees and your shareholders and all the, your board, everything, all those people that you need to think about. ⁓ And keeping that disciplined approach to what really matters and putting your energy into those specific areas and assuring that you do the best job you can in the the action of the moment is really, really important. That's what leads you to better decision-making. It's to not allow the sometimes feigned urgencies, crowd out the important issues that you need to wrestle with. Because I've not been in any ⁓ &A environment, the final closing ⁓ meetings and normally it's... A lot of times it's more than just one, but ideally it's one. But in that session to sort of rudder Kiplings, if keep your head about you and those around you are losing theirs as the CEO, you need to be cool, calm, collected and vigilant because so many things can happen. The worst of which is the deal falls apart. And thankfully I've never been in one of those, but I did have the deal extended. Col. John Boggs: was theirs, yeah. Jim Cascino: another couple of weeks because of some unexpected contingencies that came up and you that's not unusual. But it's staying focused on what matters. Col. John Boggs: Staying focused on what matters. when you're disciplined, I can hear it, can hear it, but when you're working with a crew and they don't have the discipline, they do get ⁓ sidetracked, the shiny object catches their attention, how do you support bringing them back in? How do you help them to stay focused? Jim Cascino: Well, while it's not the approach I recommend for the norm, there are times when leaders need to make the call. And it doesn't mean that you don't listen and you don't learn from others. But in the heat of battle, to a military guy, ⁓ Marine, Semper Fi, to a Marine who understands that in the heat of battle, there is a place where the leader makes the call. ⁓ That is appropriate. And if it's in the middle of an ⁓ &A transaction, more times than not, the leader makes the call. It's not a delegated, discussed conversation. The preparation to walking in that room, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. You draw. Yes. Jim Cascino: is what makes the difference. That people are on the same page. understand that when you go to an ⁓ &A, an actual closing event with all the lawyers and all the CPAs and all the people in the room, your team that comes in must be on the same page and the decision rights need to be clear. And the decision rights in that environment are often different than in the daily operation of your business. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: I am a Socratic leader. I ask questions. I want to know what my talented people believe and think and recommend. And that's a way for deeper, faster gains in business generally, in my experience. But the point of leadership... and your right of decision making needs to be clarified in advance. If in fact, when you're going into an ⁓ &A transaction like we're talking about, if your team is used to a more ⁓ Socratic kind of approach in your leadership style, they need to be informed that we're walking into a different arena today. This is a boxing match we're going into in a way. And I need you to understand your role. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: as well as my role so that we can all support each other in what's about to happen. So a lot of people have never been through one of those things before and they don't know. So what are they going to fall back on? They're going to fall back on the style that they've seen from you previously. But in this environment, often you need to change. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, would you recommend, you, I love it. You said the Socratic method. And I know for everyone out there listening, I know you understand that that's asking questions. That's asking questions that makes you really think. And I'm a big believer in that. I'm a huge believer in don't give answers. Don't do that. Give them the question. So how does asking better questions, good questions, change what the executives, how they lead, how they view pressure. Jim Cascino: You're digging into an area that is something I struggle with, and yet I know the importance of it. And that is the Socratic methodology. I'm sort of generally a quick thinker, and I have a breadth of experience that allows me to reach conclusions based on past failures as well as successes. So my inclination, I have to fight. My inclination is to give an answer. But when you say as a leader, one of your primary roles and jobs is to develop people, to help them grow to be more than they are today, tomorrow, you need to change your instinct. least I do, I have to change my instinct to give you the answer and help you develop the answer yourself. Now we know through all the neuro work and scientific work that's been done over the years that all of us learn more from failure than from successes. But in business, you don't want to have that as your go-to learning ⁓ approach. What you want is a person to make better judgments. So failure is the fastest way to learn, but helping someone go through self-discovery Col. John Boggs: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: is the more permanent way to cement that learning ⁓ without the failure liability that comes with the other approach. So a Socratic, really good questions force a person to come to their own conclusion the right way. It takes longer. It is more disciplined to do. It's frankly more difficult than just give them the answer. But if you ultimately decide as a CEO, let's say, that I can't do every job in this company that needs to be done, then, and I've got to step out of the weeds to be that 80 % longer, bigger picture and 20 % in the weeds, as you described earlier, I need to find a way to as rapidly as I can, take people with the right characteristics and talents and skills and character and develop them as fast as I can. And the way you do that is through Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: their self-discovery, which you are the teacher, you're the guide, you're the Buddhist monk that gives a simple idea that changes a life and how they view the world around them. So that's why, and I say I find it because again, my instincts to just give you the answer, but that's not the right way to lead. And so I always spend a lot of time, although I'm less good at it than I wanna be, I spend a lot of time thinking about the right questions. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. No. Jim Cascino: ⁓ to drive self-discovery. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Do you have go-to questions or a question that you find ⁓ is more helpful to you than not? Jim Cascino: You know? ⁓ ⁓ mean, if you look at my, if you look back and said, okay, what are the questions in a consulting gig, in an advisory role or a leadership role as I've run companies, ⁓ are the question I ask more than anything else is probably why. You know, why is that decision the right decision? Why is that plan the right plan? Probably second and third would be, you know, what and how, you know, the why, what and how. But how you ask the whys can't always be why. You can't just use that one word over and over and over again. Now, there is a philosophy that's called the seven whys to a cry. Have you ever heard that one? Col. John Boggs: Seven whys to a cry. No, I haven't. Jim Cascino: Yeah. If you ask in a different way the question why, and you use that as a probing device to get deeper and deeper and deeper to the root cause of that surface decision, you ultimately create an emotional response that leads often to tears. That you've really hit the core of my heart, not my brain, but my heart with this Col. John Boggs: you Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: probing, you forced me to get down to the root issue that I'm answering to. I'm not saying I use that approach often, but sometimes that approach works. But the whole idea of why is that the best decision? What have you explored other than your choice? How will you implement this if that is ultimately the right decision? How will you go about it? is the norm for my profession. ⁓ Is to digging deep to understand where it comes from and creating self-discovery so that the CEO, my client, makes the decision that he or she is more committed to because they reached the decision. I didn't just give it to them. Col. John Boggs: I found that a lot of leaders, they like to give the answer because it makes them feel good. It's a dopamine hit. They need me. He came to me for that question, with that question. I gave him the answer. I feel really good. But you didn't help him or her develop. Jim Cascino: That's true. That's right. It's also not only does it make you feel good, it's also the most expedient way to get through that particular job of the day. And when you have a day filled with urgencies and important decisions and important actions, checking up that box is often something I see so often in CEOs. They just want to get them out of the office so I can move on to something I care more about. But But that loses sight of the higher ambition of an executive, which is the development of talent. The first piece is to identify potential talent. And by potential talent, ⁓ potential may not be the right word there, but the idea you have to develop and you have to seek character, integrity, you have to seek wisdom, at least they could glean in the years that they put on this world. ⁓ You want to find... ⁓ Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: all the things that make a really, really great employee that you would rely on for years and years to come and you will help them be all they want to be in their career. You're the guide, you're the mentor. But in addition to that, it's helping them with your tools to develop and contribute more to your company than in some cases they ever assumed was possible. You're breaking their own visual barriers, visuals not right, but their own mental barriers of where they think they can aspire to. You're helping them realize the boundaries of that are self-imposed and that yes, they could actually exceed what they even thought was possible. Col. John Boggs: Mm. How do you see that, really this is really a young executive kind of question, but how do you see those young up and coming executives, how do you see them getting in their own ways? Jim Cascino: Come. I do work with young executives, but most of my executives are more seasoned. But in the young, I do a lot of advisory work with startups and a lot of pro bono work. And the startups typically, they are being driven by older executives than 10 years ago, frankly, in entrepreneurial ventures, but they're still relatively young, at least to me. A lot of times they get in their own ways, What gets in their way is their ego. And it comes back to a point you mentioned earlier about giving the answer satisfies my ego versus asking you to come up with the right answer, not the wrong answer to avoid failure as your learning curve. They want to impress so badly that sometimes they don't impress at all. ⁓ That they may be really, really smart. Col. John Boggs: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: but they're going to get in their own way by not realizing something that they've never been trained to learn as they were in what they're typically inventing or doing. By that, mean no one has ever really taught how to be a CEO. And it's just not a CEO. It's the next level. You know, what happens is the Peter Principle, where you are promoted to your level of incompetence. And then suddenly you're frozen there. Well, you should never be there. But that happens quite often, even still in business. so realizing that curiosity and growth are your obligation, that you must grow. The old expression grow or die, I don't totally agree with that. But I do agree with grow or slow down at a minimum. You're not going to continue to go up the elevator of business. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Never be. Jim Cascino: unless you are humble and curious and friendly. It's the Boy Scout code, courteous, kind, obedient, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. It's those kinds of skills and qualities that allow you to step into successfully higher levels of responsibility. So your question, I didn't really answer your question. What is it that they slow themselves down from? I would say more times than not, it's ⁓ hubris. or ego or I have the answer nobody else does. Col. John Boggs: Okay. Thank you. Jim Cascino: Does any of this click with you, or do you think weird outside? Col. John Boggs: ⁓ boy, no, I've seen all of that. I've seen all of that in the young executives, ⁓ particularly when you say hubris. ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. And ⁓ ego, absolutely. And ⁓ sadly, I hear more ego in the young male executives than the female executives. yeah. ⁓ Jim Cascino: I am a giant female advocate in business. And you didn't ask for this, but I'll share it with you because it's a strong belief I have. I believe the female workforce is among the most untapped potential workforce that any business may ⁓ engage successfully and happily. And I... Col. John Boggs: Yes, it's all mine. It's all mine, yeah. Jim Cascino: I guess I've always sort of been a feminist. I've been a feminine supporter for years. I had a wonderful career at Avon products decades and decades and decades ago. And I was division manager and then I was a director in the company and had enormous responsibility for the domestic business. And I learned so much. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: ⁓ One of my functions, I had seven departments in my last role and one of them was recruiting and the job was to recruit that year 652,000 Avon ladies. This goes back so many years, but it was, I developed such an appreciation that it would be unkind of me not to mention my advocacy for the feminine gender business. Col. John Boggs: Thank Well, I'm glad you did that. I too am a very pro woman in business, very pro woman in the armed forces. And I just am. There's nothing they can't do, not a thing. And do very, very well. Do extremely well. So tell. when leaders are facing a defining moment. What separates those who rise from those who hesitate? Jim Cascino: in my experience. So this is not necessarily true. But in my experience. It all sort of boils down to your learned intuition. And the intuition is based on everything you have done, your wins, your losses, your career, your experiences. The breadth and depth of that leads you to instincts. that your career has already displayed are better than they're not better. That you need good intuition when information is rare. You don't have all the facts. Comes back to an earlier question you were asking. ⁓ How do you make decisions in those environments? Well, one, you assess as rat. You sometimes slow down to go fast. You assess a situation and you make decisions that Col. John Boggs: Mmm. Mm-hmm. That's right. Jim Cascino: are time sensitive and you're not afraid of those decisions. You may have fear, but you're not afraid enough to not go forward. But you're courageous enough to acknowledge that your decision may not be perfect, but you're moving. You're moving toward your target with the best of intuition and intention possible. And you're not afraid to change your mind or alter your decision slightly. You don't normally find success altering your decision 180 degrees. You know, retreat. You have to keep moving forward. But that's where the word pivot is better. Instead of alter dramatically your plan. Col. John Boggs: Yeah, no. Keep moving forward. Jim Cascino: You pivot, you adjust, make changes based on new information and learning that you have developed as you are live in the field of action. But the ones who seek too far a field of feedback slow a process where speed often becomes vital. And speed can be your competitive advantage. It can be your death knell. But your intuition is where you are relying on the best possible judgment with the information you can glean that is as accurate as you believe it can possibly be. Col. John Boggs: I was going to ask you, what advice would you give a new CEO? I tend to work with a lot of folks who are new CEOs, but that almost sounded like that was the great advice right there. But let me go ahead and ask it anyway. What is the advice you would give the new CEO? I'm going to the office tomorrow. I'm my first time, first day on the job. Wow. What advice do you give him or her? Jim Cascino: Well, I work with a lot of new CEOs too. it is your career and what you do, John, is so important because there's a ⁓ roadblock and I'm getting a little bit broader before I get specific. There's a roadblock right now of baby boomers who are having to work longer hours because of the change in the economy, retirement, et cetera. Things got more expensive. They decided to keep working. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: The old view that they retire sometimes automatically without question at 65 is gone. And I'm a good example of that. I'm well beyond 65. I want to work more than I need to work. want to work. But when you're a new CEO, the best thing, the best advice I think you can give someone is you are here for a reason. You were selected for a reason. People with a lot more experience than you generally made the decision to give you this opportunity. And your instinct is going to be to do it on your own, to prove they were right. And that's natural. And you should where possible. But you also need to distinguish the big decisions from the little decisions. The big decisions that have long-term impact on your destiny. and the destiny of your business. And in those situations, you show wisdom by seeking outside viewpoints from those who have proven they deserve your trust and have information that you may not have through their own experience that can broaden your assessment and your view of the right possible course. So one of your big challenges is to lead by your example. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: Don't be afraid to do what you ask others to do. If anything, look for ways to prove you can. And at least you're willing to try. ⁓ Make decisions that are urgent and necessary to the degree they are not going to massively change the destiny of your business. But don't shy away from asking those who put you in this role for feedback on some thinking you've given. Don't just come with the question. Come with the situation. come with your assessment and your potential solution and ask for feedback on whether or not there are alternative courses you should be looking at. And this is another place where AI can be enormously helpful for a new CEO, is you have at your disposal a wealth of historical information in the marketplace that you've not been able to easily access before. Now you can, and it can give you alternative views. Col. John Boggs: Hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: that you should be exploring before you ever make that personal call. You don't want to make the personal call to this advisor or your wisdom point that you want to talk to until you've done your homework. You want to come in with a position that's well conceived and well thought out, but then there's no reason, and they will be complimented and want to help you if you come in with the homework done and asking for their wisdom to weigh in on your call and displaying, in a way, not your Col. John Boggs: Man. Jim Cascino: your ironclad commitment to doing what you've already decided, but your willingness to explore genuinely alternative views that could make your ultimate decision a better one. So that's a fine balance. And nobody's really trained how to do this at first time CEOs. a lot of times first time CEOs, and I'll be quiet, first time CEOs go back to where they got there. If they came out of supply chain, if they came out of finance, if they came out of sales, it doesn't matter. That's where their comfort level is. Col. John Boggs: Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: But they have to, they don't abandon that knowledge and that experience, but they've got to broaden it. And they've got to display a willingness to learn the other sections that they have not been trialed by fire as they have in their own specialty. Col. John Boggs: No. Wow. Well, Jim, thank you very much. That was phenomenal. That was phenomenal. So for CEOs or senior leaders listening who are navigating growth, transition or crisis, or you're new, what's the best way for them to connect with you? ⁓ How do they do that? If they want to suck something out of you or hire you or do they do that? How do they reach you? Jim Cascino: Well, first thing I would say, John, is I would suggest they call you first. And I'll tell you why, because you're the sponsor of this podcast. ⁓ The times I've spent with you have been uplifting and learning. I learn every time we're together and we've chatted. ⁓ So I would say you are very qualified to offer the kind of talented service that I think I provide my clients. So call you first. Col. John Boggs: Hahaha Okay. Jim Cascino: But in the event they want an alternative view or a difference of opinion, I will still come back and say, well, John should have that answer too. But they can reach me at my, ⁓ really my email. And let me give you the email. The name is Jim Casino. My email is jcasino spelled C-A-S-C-I-N-O at C, the letter C, dash suite. Col. John Boggs: Okay. Mm-hmm. Jim Cascino: suite.co.com, C-O, jcasino at csuite.co. That's the easiest way to reach me. You could also call me and I could give me my telephone number, my mobile number, but I think that would be faster typically because if I don't recognize your number, I'm going to wait to hear who it is. Just like you, get so many spam calls, but ⁓ that'd be the easiest way and I'd be happy to talk with any of them and always refer them to you as well. Col. John Boggs: That's true. Jim, thank you very much. And if you're listening in, that's Jim Casino. That's J-C-A-S-C-I-N-O at C. That's C as in Charlie, dash S-U-I-T-E dot C-O, dot C-O. Okay, all right. Jim Cascino: You got it. John, thank you for the opportunity. I hope there's something in here that'll be helpful for someone. And again, I appreciate the opportunity of affiliating and working with you. And I your leadership along the way is just brilliant. So thanks. Col. John Boggs: Well, Jim, thank you very much. You're a great American. I greatly appreciated this and really enjoyed it. And for everyone else, I'll see you on the next go out here.