Latest / The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee / Getting Pregnant Over 40: The Science, Strategy and Success

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Getting Pregnant Over 40: The Science, Strategy and Success · The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee

• 0:04
  Liz Walton: Welcome to the home of fertility, a space for real conversations and expert insights about fertility, healing and creating family.
• 0:14
  Liz Walton: I'm Liz Walton.
• 0:17
  Helen Zee: And I'm Helen Z.
• 0:18
  Helen Zee: We are two mums who've walked this path and are passionate about supporting you on your journey emotionally, physically and spiritually.
• 0:28
  Liz Walton: We talk about it all fertility treatments, holistic support, relationships, mindset and the emotional highs and lows.
• 0:38
  Helen Zee: Because sometimes the missing piece lies in someone else's story, in the quiet wisdom of the body or in a breakthrough that's finally made for you we are so glad you are here.
• 0:52
  Liz Walton: Let's dive in.
• 0:56
  Helen Zee: Welcome to yet another nourishing and fully empowering conversation with the lovely today.
• 1:04
  Helen Zee: We are going to be introducing Tasha Jennings to our conversation today and Tasha is a fertility naturopath, helping proactive females and couples improve their fertility wellbeing to create healthy pregnancies and babies, Through her programs, books and expert commentary through media.
• 1:26
  Helen Zee: Her expertise is well sought after, including educating other health professionals at fertility conferences.
• 1:33
  Helen Zee: And today, my friends, we are delighted that we are going to speak to getting pregnant over 40s, in being over 40, in the science, the strategy and the success.
• 1:46
  Helen Zee: Welcome, Tasha.
• 1:49
  Tasha Jennings: Thank you for having me.
• 1:50
  Tasha Jennings: I love this topic.
• 1:52
  Tasha Jennings: I'm so looking forward to diving into this with you today.
• 1:56
  Helen Zee: Sane.
• 1:56
  Helen Zee: Well, first of all, there are a lot of people in their 40s that are wanting their well-desired child, whether it's their first pregnancy or subsequent pregnancies, to lead to to their family and growing their family.
• 2:16
  Helen Zee: And I also know that one thing that gets caught up is this little acronym called AMH.
• 2:24
  Helen Zee: Gets caught up is this little acronym called AMH, and that means and doesn't mean when we think that I'm over 40, my reserves are low, it's never going to happen.
• 2:35
  Helen Zee: Shall we dive in with that one.
• 2:37
  Tasha Jennings: Let's dive in with that one.
• 2:38
  Tasha Jennings: I do get a lot of women.
• 2:40
  Tasha Jennings: Look most of my patient demographic, I have to say 38, 39, 40 plus.
• 2:45
  Tasha Jennings: You know I've had 45 year olds, got a 45 year old currently pregnant.
• 2:48
  Tasha Jennings: She's nearing the tail end now.
• 2:50
  Tasha Jennings: So it is becoming more normal to have our babies later in life.
• 2:54
  Tasha Jennings: We're having careers, we're not settling for Mr Right until we're really happy with Mr Right, and so we are having babies later in life.
• 3:02
  Tasha Jennings: And there is a test I'll dive straight into AMH, because that is one that the GP or fertility specialist will often recommend right off the bat and it's a marker which, again, anything is just a marker.
• 3:15
  Tasha Jennings: It's just an indication of your ovarian reserve, which is how many eggs you have left, pretty much.
• 3:21
  Tasha Jennings: Now.
• 3:22
  Tasha Jennings: It's also important to remember if you are on the pill, when you take this AMH, it may be altered and lower than it should be.
• 3:30
  Tasha Jennings: So I've had women come in quite concerned about their result and retested off the pill and it's different.
• 3:35
  Tasha Jennings: But it's also just a marker of your quantity, not your quality.
• 3:40
  Tasha Jennings: And if you're trying to conceive naturally, it's.
• 3:44
  Tasha Jennings: I go close to say it's irrelevant because you only need one egg.
• 3:48
  Tasha Jennings: You're ovulating one egg every month.
• 3:51
  Tasha Jennings: We just wanted it to be a good quality egg.
• 3:54
  Tasha Jennings: If it's in the context of IVF, it will mean you will be maybe a lower responder.
• 3:59
  Tasha Jennings: We're not going to get 30 eggs from your egg collection but, as I say to my older patients, going to get 30 eggs from your egg collection, but, as I say to my older patients, you don't want 30 babies.
• 4:08
  Tasha Jennings: This is not what we're aiming for here.
• 4:09
  Tasha Jennings: So, for example, I did have a 42-year-old patient come to me after seven failed IVF cycles and the IVF clinic referred her to me, I guess not knowing what to do next, and I actually asked her to pause for three months, which is a big ask at 42.
• 4:26
  Tasha Jennings: But doing back-to-back cycle wasn't getting anywhere and doing the same thing and I think there is that fear as we get older that I can't miss the cycle.
• 4:35
  Tasha Jennings: It's a missed opportunity, but in some times, pausing and getting things right is moving forward, not backwards.
• 4:41
  Tasha Jennings: It's not even treading water.
• 4:43
  Tasha Jennings: You're actually moving in the right direction.
• 4:45
  Tasha Jennings: So for this particular patient, we sent her back to the IVF clinic after working together for three months and, yes, she's still a poor responder.
• 4:53
  Tasha Jennings: So she still had low AMH.
• 4:55
  Tasha Jennings: She's still only got two follicles that were going to be collected.
• 5:00
  Tasha Jennings: But when we spoke to the embryologist the follicles look good, they were good size, so we went ahead with the egg collection and we got one baby and one frozen embryo.
• 5:09
  Tasha Jennings: And that's, I guess, the power of quality over quantity.
• 5:14
  Tasha Jennings: We don't need big numbers.
• 5:15
  Tasha Jennings: So if you do get a low AMH reading back, do make sure you understand that in context and just know that it's about quality.
• 5:25
  Tasha Jennings: So let's focus on that quality.
• 5:27
  Helen Zee: Beautiful and I am assuming in those three months it wasn't just pausing sitting around absolutely not.
• 5:34
  Helen Zee: Tv dinners, feeling that there was some naturopathy and some beautiful nutrient delivery into the cells that end up, yeah, that go on to create a super powerful egg.
• 5:54
  Helen Zee: And you know, for the men as well, if they're prepared to look at their children as well.
• 6:00
  Tasha Jennings: Definitely we want to look at sperm health too and look her results.
• 6:04
  Tasha Jennings: You know a lot of the results that I get.
• 6:06
  Tasha Jennings: I often see patients for unexplained fertility.
• 6:09
  Tasha Jennings: It may be age-related they blame it on age but it just means all her test results were quote-unquote fine.
• 6:15
  Tasha Jennings: So what that means is she doesn't have a disease or she doesn't have a deficiency, and I think that's what doctors are looking for, and I work with some amazing IVF specialists I'm married to a doctor.
• 6:30
  Tasha Jennings: I think they do an amazing job.
• 6:31
  Tasha Jennings: But they're looking for a disease or a deficiency which a lot of my patients don't have.
• 6:34
  Tasha Jennings: But when we're trying to I guess cheat biology a little bit we're wanting to push our fertility window as long as possible.
• 6:39
  Tasha Jennings: We don't just want results that are fine, we want results that are optimal.
• 6:44
  Tasha Jennings: So what we did in those three months is work to get all her results into the optimal range, which they weren't, and there are some tests that may not have been done.
• 6:54
  Tasha Jennings: I want to look at all the nutritionals.
• 6:56
  Tasha Jennings: I want to look at what can we do to make the biggest impact.
• 7:00
  Tasha Jennings: And why I talk about the three months so much, I guess is because that's how long?
• 7:05
  Tasha Jennings: A bit longer than that actually, but that's when you can have the most impact on that egg development.
• 7:11
  Tasha Jennings: So what you are doing right now, if you're sitting here listening to this, is impacting the development of that egg that is going to come out and be ovulated or collected at egg collection in three months' time.
• 7:22
  Tasha Jennings: And I guess women are often told you have old eggs, there's nothing you can do, and I've had patients really upset by hearing that message, and so that's not true.
• 7:31
  Tasha Jennings: Your eggs are not even eggs yet.
• 7:34
  Tasha Jennings: They're these tiny primordial follicles that have the potential to become eggs and become future babies, but they're not yet.
• 7:41
  Tasha Jennings: They haven't developed yet.
• 7:42
  Tasha Jennings: So it's not so much that you have old eggs, it's that your eggs are developing in an older body.
• 7:49
  Tasha Jennings: So what can we do to optimize the environment within that body that is going to give those tiny follicles the best chance of being mature, of actually being chromosomally normal, of being able to have the potential to become a healthy pregnancy and healthy baby?
• 8:08
  Tasha Jennings: And there are five key factors that I work on with women in regards to egg development, and this probably goes for sperm health as well, but we'll talk a lot about women and fertility over 40 today, but number one is energy.
• 8:22
  Tasha Jennings: The egg cell has more mitochondria than any other cell in the body, and for good reason.
• 8:29
  Tasha Jennings: It takes a ton of energy for fertilization to happen, for two cells to come together and start a new heart beating, create a new life that takes a powerful oh it's amazing spirit of procreation.
• 8:46
  Helen Zee: Absolutely yes, yeah it's.
• 8:48
  Tasha Jennings: It's exciting.
• 8:49
  Tasha Jennings: I find I'm still fascinated by that process and there is a bit of a doubt about control.
• 8:54
  Tasha Jennings: I do believe there is a bit of magic in there as well, but it takes fundamentally mitochondrial energy from a scientific perspective and as get older, often our eggs don't have that energy available.
• 9:06
  Tasha Jennings: So that's one thing we work on is fueling that energy.
• 9:09
  Tasha Jennings: So that's where we look at diet, we look at lifestyle, potentially supplementation like your nicotinamides, your CoQ10, your ubiquinols.
• 9:18
  Tasha Jennings: That's going to help to support that mitochondrial energy within the cell to be able to have the energy and the egg cell actually has the capacity to.
• 9:27
  Tasha Jennings: It actually fuels all of the growth and development from day one to three.
• 9:33
  Tasha Jennings: The sperm actually doesn't get involved until day three, so everything needs to happen within the egg.
• 9:38
  Tasha Jennings: So energy is huge.
• 9:40
  Tasha Jennings: The number two that I talk a lot about is DNA development.
• 9:44
  Tasha Jennings: We need healthy, healthy, chromosomally normal DNA and we need to provide the right building blocks.
• 9:50
  Tasha Jennings: So this is where it comes in the right folates and the right form of folate.
• 9:55
  Tasha Jennings: Make sure you're metabolizing the folate properly.
• 9:57
  Tasha Jennings: We look at your B vitamins, your iron, your proteins to create that healthy DNA within the egg cell.
• 10:03
  Tasha Jennings: Number three I talk about is antioxidants, so protecting that process, because we're talking about tiny, tiny cells that need to be looked at under a microscope, so they're very sensitive and vulnerable to environmental factors.
• 10:20
  Tasha Jennings: So we want to provide antioxidants, like vitamin Cs and resveratrols that are going to be.
• 10:26
  Tasha Jennings: These things are found around our follicles, they're found in that follicular fluid and they help to protect that process of that egg development.
• 10:35
  Tasha Jennings: Number four we're going to look at the cellular health.
• 10:37
  Tasha Jennings: So the health of that cell is it, you know, is it got a nice supple, spongy cell wall?
• 10:43
  Tasha Jennings: Is the spindle intact?
• 10:44
  Tasha Jennings: Can we see that DNA?
• 10:44
  Tasha Jennings: I often say, you know, is it got a nice supple, spongy cell wall?
• 10:45
  Tasha Jennings: Is the spindle intact?
• 10:45
  Tasha Jennings: Can we see that DNA?
• 10:46
  Tasha Jennings: I often say, you know, we can have the same raw materials, but we can have sultanas or grapes, you know same stuff, but they're going to look very differently and function very differently.
• 10:55
  Tasha Jennings: And the last one is, I guess, external environmental factors that do influence the internal environment.
• 11:03
  Tasha Jennings: So your plastics, your toxins, we want to really minimise those because, again, they might not be having a fundamental impact on your body.
• 11:11
  Tasha Jennings: You don't have a disease from it, you don't have a deficiency from it, but these are tiny cells capable of creating new life.
• 11:18
  Tasha Jennings: They may be impacted by some of these even safe, quote-unquote chemicals.
• 11:23
  Helen Zee: Absolutely, and it is a build-up of the chemicals.
• 11:26
  Helen Zee: I used to work in global pharmaceuticals, so one of my major companies that I'd work with regularly is the TGA, as well as FDA and other regulatory bodies around the world.
• 11:39
  Helen Zee: So I understood what lab labeling is all about.
• 11:45
  Helen Zee: It was part of my job.
• 11:46
  Helen Zee: We just think, okay, this in isolation is safe, this in isolation is in safe level, this in isolation is in safe levels.
• 11:55
  Helen Zee: But when you bring that all together it becomes a chemical cocktail and over time that builds in the tissues in the fluids of the body.
• 12:04
  Helen Zee: The time that builds in the tissues in the fluids of the body.
• 12:08
  Helen Zee: And for the listener and the person listening to this right now, we're just not making this stuff up.
• 12:12
  Helen Zee: And if this is where research is also fundamental and I can actually pop the report down in the show notes but follicular fluid and seminal fluid has shown the buildup of microplastics up to 55%, so just not making this stuff up.
• 12:35
  Helen Zee: So when you and I get asked why is delayed fertility on the rise?
• 12:42
  Helen Zee: Why is infertility on the rise?
• 12:44
  Helen Zee: These lifestyle factors and also the environmental factors, they do play a role.
• 12:51
  Helen Zee: And what I'm hearing you saying, tasha, is what you do in that preconception, health care planning, which is similar from the work that I do but I don't come from the lens of a naturopath or supplementation, because I'm not accredited to do supplementation.
• 13:15
  Helen Zee: But what we're doing is finding ways to slow down the biological aging of the body, slow down the clock.
• 13:24
  Helen Zee: And what I used to do years ago when this computer system and program was around called BioAid testing.
• 13:35
  Helen Zee: I would BioAid test my clients and how old are you really?
• 13:41
  Helen Zee: And it gave people a really awesome kickstart and go wow, I'm 38, but my biological factors are showing me more like 49, 51.
• 13:54
  Helen Zee: And it was beautiful to see the changes.
• 13:58
  Helen Zee: Redo that bio-age testing and go wow, it's not only on a piece of paper, is it coming down, but the way that your body functions, the vitality in your life, as you spoke about, the energy that a person gets to experience these are all the life-giving, life-promoting symptoms that we really want to experience in our lives, in ourselves.
• 14:25
  Tasha Jennings: And that's the thing I find working in this window of these three months.
• 14:29
  Tasha Jennings: You know the lovely side effects of this is anti-aging.
• 14:31
  Tasha Jennings: So you know we're wanting to create these beautiful, healthy cells.
• 14:37
  Tasha Jennings: And yes, definitely toxins are a big factor in getting healthy.
• 14:41
  Tasha Jennings: And I love that you touched on men too, because I should say we're talking about fertility over 40 in females.
• 14:47
  Tasha Jennings: But it also is super, super important because often I'm often sent couples and well, he's fine, everything's fine over there.
• 14:57
  Tasha Jennings: It's me, my eggs are too old, okay, but just fine is not okay.
• 15:03
  Tasha Jennings: Because, as I said, the egg cell is so amazing.
• 15:07
  Tasha Jennings: It obviously carries all the growth and development from day one to three.
• 15:11
  Tasha Jennings: So that's another tip If your embryos are falling off on day three in IVF, do think about sperm health.
• 15:16
  Tasha Jennings: But it also has the incredible ability to fix issues in sperm and go on and create a pregnancy, and so that's why sperm is often not considered as important, because the egg cell is just so amazing.
• 15:28
  Tasha Jennings: So I often say, as women, we are biologically programmed to get our men in and fix them up a bit, and we do that at a cellular level.
• 15:35
  Tasha Jennings: But as we get older, look at eggs if they're not as flying and viable as they once were.
• 15:42
  Tasha Jennings: They don't have the energy to do that.
• 15:44
  Tasha Jennings: So no pressure on the man.
• 15:46
  Tasha Jennings: We don't want just fine sperm.
• 15:47
  Tasha Jennings: I call them Olympic athlete sperm.
• 15:48
  Tasha Jennings: I want to see that semen analysis.
• 15:48
  Tasha Jennings: I no pressure on the man.
• 15:49
  Tasha Jennings: We don't want just fine sperm.
• 15:49
  Tasha Jennings: I call them Olympic athlete sperm.
• 15:50
  Tasha Jennings: I want to see that semen analysis.
• 15:52
  Tasha Jennings: I want to see the DNA fragmentation.
• 15:54
  Tasha Jennings: I want to make sure that these swimmers are the best they can possibly be, so when they come along, that egg has nothing to do.
• 16:01
  Tasha Jennings: It's got a perfect swimmer there.
• 16:03
  Tasha Jennings: You're far more likely to get a pregnancy with an egg which is just okay and a swimmer which is awesome than if both are on the just average side.
• 16:13
  Tasha Jennings: So we don't just want an average.
• 16:15
  Tasha Jennings: And for a semen analysis they're considered normal.
• 16:18
  Tasha Jennings: If there are more than 4% normal swimmers, they go.
• 16:21
  Tasha Jennings: Yeah, you're great.
• 16:22
  Tasha Jennings: So a lot of these factors and what that means that you're on the bare minimum of what has ever been possible to have a pregnancy happen.
• 16:30
  Tasha Jennings: So we want you a much higher on that bell curve.
• 16:35
  Helen Zee: I hear you on that one Absolutely, because I know when I'm working with couples as well, you know the males will come in, you know, wanting to show me the report and say that, oh, they're great, it's all fantastic.
• 16:46
  Helen Zee: But you look down the lens of what you said, looking at the optimization, not just the normal levels, especially when fertility is not taking place or there is reoccurring miscarriages, then that's not just the body saying and a doctor saying, oh, you'll be right, have a few more miscarriages before we do more tests on you being the female.
• 17:14
  Helen Zee: But let's really unpack this and have a look at male fertility factor as well.
• 17:21
  Helen Zee: Because when you talk about the day one to day three and the egg, the egg lives in the body and the egg is part of that uterine lining.
• 17:31
  Helen Zee: We also know that before the placenta has full blood flow for nutrients to pass from the mother's body into the baby's body, it is feeding off that uterine lining, it is going into that essence of and I don't have or pretend to know the chemical names and the big names of what they're feeding off, but let's just say it's the protein and the fat molecules that are through the amniotic fluid is literally that uterine lining that would have been shed out as menstrual blood that we just say, oh, it's so annoying I can't wear my white pants or I feel like I'm.
• 18:17
  Helen Zee: You know, I'm not going to go out tonight.
• 18:19
  Helen Zee: That menstrual blood is the feeding ground for a potential viable pregnancy into the human being that you and I originated from and all our clients that we're working with who get pregnant.
• 18:39
  Tasha Jennings: Yeah, yeah, there's the egg, obviously, and the embryo, and there's the home, obviously.
• 18:43
  Tasha Jennings: There's two sides of the thing that we're working on.
• 18:45
  Tasha Jennings: I love that you mentioned miscarriage and men as well.
• 18:48
  Tasha Jennings: Well, because I have had couples turn up to me and go well, I'm fine, I get her pregnant, she can't hold the pregnancy.
• 18:53
  Tasha Jennings: I'm like uh-uh-uh.
• 18:54
  Tasha Jennings: No, it's about the embryo.
• 18:57
  Tasha Jennings: Most miscarriages are because of chromosomal abnormalities and that is about the embryo.
• 19:02
  Tasha Jennings: So it's just as likely that there is an issue with the DNA within the sperm as there is a DNA issue within the egg.
• 19:10
  Tasha Jennings: So, really important that miscarriage isn't just about the female, it's about getting healthy embryo, which involves both of you.
• 19:18
  Tasha Jennings: And then obviously there's the healthy lining and, yeah, all of those factors.
• 19:22
  Tasha Jennings: There are actually so many factors involved and even male preconception health.
• 19:27
  Tasha Jennings: I did a podcast with Professor Adam Watkins, who does amazing research on preconception health in men, and it's so important that it's important beyond just the semen analysis, because they often say, well, that's a beauty contest.
• 19:40
  Tasha Jennings: That's the markers we know to test.
• 19:41
  Tasha Jennings: That's what we want to look at.
• 19:43
  Tasha Jennings: And even the DNA fragmentation is another level deeper.
• 19:46
  Tasha Jennings: We can maybe do antisperm, antibodies.
• 19:48
  Tasha Jennings: There's quite a lot of testing we can do, but there's still that, I believe, that part of biology that we don't know.
• 19:54
  Tasha Jennings: So we do know that male preconception health matters, regardless of the semen analysis.
• 20:00
  Tasha Jennings: It improves the outcomes and it's also it's not just about getting you pregnant.
• 20:06
  Tasha Jennings: I say my job is not to get you pregnant.
• 20:07
  Tasha Jennings: My job is for you to have a healthy pregnancy and a healthy baby, and you have this amazing window of opportunity right now to pass on the best DNA possible to your future baby, and I think you know what more of an opportunity do you improve your child's life Like.
• 20:25
  Tasha Jennings: The best investment you can ever make in your child's future health is right now getting that dna set up.
• 20:31
  Helen Zee: It's not the school they're going to go to, no, the clothes they're going to wear and the holidays that they're going to have literally the legacies in the lineage of, of passing on that healthy genome and an expression of the most healthiest genome possible for both, from both.
• 20:52
  Tasha Jennings: From both.
• 20:52
  Tasha Jennings: Yeah, let's invest now in getting the best, healthiest child in the best opportunity, the best start in life.
• 20:59
  Helen Zee: And on the flip side of that.
• 21:01
  Helen Zee: I mean I know that, with the pathways to parenthood being a lot more diversified in our modern environment, when women are doing solo mother journey and they're looking at the credentials of the donor, like there's a lot of testing that takes place and, you know, there's a lot of considerations, but that just doesn't happen as much when we are, you know, say, heteronormative or we're just going for natural conception, or even when we're going on a journey of IVF consideration as there is in that criteria of when a woman is trying to choose a suitable donor based on all the credentials that are on that piece of paper yeah, and that's I often do work with my wife.
• 21:58
  Tasha Jennings: A lot of solo mums by choice.
• 22:00
  Tasha Jennings: Um, that I that I see, and some of them I even help with that process of selection.
• 22:04
  Tasha Jennings: Let's look at these, you know donors.
• 22:06
  Tasha Jennings: Let's look at these, you know donors.
• 22:07
  Tasha Jennings: Let's look at all the parameters.
• 22:08
  Tasha Jennings: You know what is the best, healthiest DNA.
• 22:11
  Helen Zee: Women won't know that.
• 22:12
  Helen Zee: They won't know unless they know that someone's got their back and is looking at optimal levels of those results.
• 22:22
  Helen Zee: So I love that.
• 22:24
  Helen Zee: I love that that's available and you do that as a service.
• 22:28
  Helen Zee: I love that.
• 22:29
  Helen Zee: I love that that's available and you do that as a service.
• 22:31
  Helen Zee: Tasha, tell me, for the person listening as well who is worried about their age and how their egg quality may have changed with age, being in their 40s, and what they can do to improve it.
• 22:43
  Tasha Jennings: Yep, look, focusing on those five key aspects that I cover those in my your Fertile Pantry program as well.
• 22:51
  Tasha Jennings: But there are a few other tests that they can probably get done through their GP.
• 22:55
  Tasha Jennings: Obviously, amh is one that people talk about a lot.
• 22:58
  Tasha Jennings: I'm a little ambivalent about that result, just put that in context.
• 23:02
  Tasha Jennings: But the other tests you can get done are day two bloods of your hormones.
• 23:07
  Tasha Jennings: So I will always check FSH, lh, estrogen and progesterone on day two of their cycle.
• 23:15
  Tasha Jennings: If your FSH is higher than about eight or 10, it means your body is struggling to produce follicles.
• 23:21
  Tasha Jennings: It's trying harder than it needs to produce follicles.
• 23:25
  Tasha Jennings: So that's where we want to work to get that FSH down onto a normal number.
• 23:29
  Tasha Jennings: That's where I use herbal support for hormones, but also supporting that egg quality, getting the energy right, getting the DNA right, all those things I spoke about before, those five key aspects.
• 23:39
  Tasha Jennings: That's going to help the egg mature better.
• 23:43
  Tasha Jennings: So those hormone tests are a key one to get done, just to see where your levels are.
• 23:49
  Tasha Jennings: We also don't want estrogen too high at that stage.
• 23:52
  Tasha Jennings: We want it probably over 100, but we want it under maybe 200.
• 23:55
  Tasha Jennings: If it's too high, again with the FSH, means your body's rushing to produce the egg and you may ovulate early, get immature follicles.
• 24:04
  Tasha Jennings: So there's a lot of things to look at and then we want to work on that.
• 24:08
  Tasha Jennings: 90-day map is a good timeframe.
• 24:12
  Tasha Jennings: But I also love the study.
• 24:14
  Tasha Jennings: There was a Norwegian study called Feed your Genes and it was based on how your genes respond to the food that you eat.
• 24:22
  Tasha Jennings: And we often see the food that we eat.
• 24:24
  Tasha Jennings: I like to call it fuel.
• 24:26
  Tasha Jennings: It's not even diet, it's not food.
• 24:28
  Tasha Jennings: It's fuel for your future baby.
• 24:30
  Tasha Jennings: And they showed that it took just six days to change the gene expression of these volunteers by changing their diet.
• 24:38
  Tasha Jennings: This was a human study and so, yes, we want to work on those 90 days, but these are not insignificant changes that you're making.
• 24:46
  Tasha Jennings: These are having a significant impact on the health of your eggs and their ability to be able to be viable at the other end.
• 24:57
  Tasha Jennings: So if you're concerned about your age, perhaps get your AMH checked, but put that in context.
• 25:03
  Tasha Jennings: Don't freak out too much if it is on the low side, because it's really just that's a quality we want to look at.
• 25:08
  Tasha Jennings: I mean, that's a quantity.
• 25:09
  Tasha Jennings: You want to look at quality and getting your fsh, lh, estrogen, progesterone checked on that day too and just seeing where they are, fsh should be again about eight to ten, lh should be about half of that.
• 25:21
  Tasha Jennings: And then your estrogen, ideally between one and two hundred would be a good number to see, right, right.
• 25:27
  Helen Zee: And because we're talking thank you, thank you and because we're talking about women over 40 that are wanting to conceive, we're also knowing that the perimenopausal journey and the change in hormones start to take place as well.
• 25:43
  Helen Zee: So do we have an opportunity in the time to talk about that as well?
• 25:48
  Helen Zee: Because I also know and I was one of the statistics, as you would say naturally getting pregnant at the age of 45.
• 25:59
  Helen Zee: I was in an annual relationship highly explorative and beautiful yumminess and the chemistry was incredible that I'm going oh wow, this is perimenopause, but it was actually a pregnancy.
• 26:14
  Helen Zee: There are quite a few we don't hear it as much, but there are quite a few women that do get pregnant in that perimenopausal phase.
• 26:25
  Helen Zee: It really is a lot more common than what we hear about.
• 26:30
  Helen Zee: So can we talk about that and spark some possibility into our listeners?
• 26:38
  Tasha Jennings: today.
• 26:38
  Tasha Jennings: Well, I think most of my patient demographic are in that perimenopausal window and I hesitate to say that word because it's got menopause in it and people just get so concerned by that but what that means is your hormones are naturally shifting.
• 26:51
  Tasha Jennings: That's what it means.
• 26:53
  Tasha Jennings: They're naturally shifting, they're naturally evolving.
• 26:55
  Tasha Jennings: So that's why I love to see blood tests and even my private consultations.
• 27:00
  Tasha Jennings: I'd go way back to their mother's pregnancy even like history-wise, because that's when their reproductive system was created and go all the way through to now and then look through all of their blood tests they've had pretty much on that journey.
• 27:12
  Tasha Jennings: So then we can see what is going to be best for them and get the best outcome for them.
• 27:18
  Tasha Jennings: Because perimenopause really just means your hormones are shifting.
• 27:23
  Tasha Jennings: So we want to see where they are and we want to see how we can best optimize them.
• 27:30
  Tasha Jennings: So everyone is slightly different.
• 27:32
  Tasha Jennings: That's where those five key aspects that I talked about the energy, the DNA, the antioxidants, the cellular health and the environment they're important for everyone, but they become more important when we're in perimenopause because we need to really support that egg development as much as possible, because you don't have old eggs Even if you're in perimenopause, if you've been told you had old eggs.
• 27:55
  Tasha Jennings: That's not true.
• 27:56
  Tasha Jennings: They're not eggs yet.
• 27:57
  Tasha Jennings: They are developing.
• 27:59
  Tasha Jennings: So optimizing that body and supporting that look it indirectly improves perimenopausal symptoms.
• 28:07
  Tasha Jennings: It helps to regulate cycles.
• 28:09
  Tasha Jennings: I see a lot of you know beautiful side effects come from improving the egg quality, improving their fertility.
• 28:15
  Tasha Jennings: But yeah, perimenopause also goes for such a long time.
• 28:18
  Tasha Jennings: You know it can start around 35 and go to 55, you know.
• 28:23
  Tasha Jennings: So just because you're in a perimenopausal window or perhaps getting some symptoms, or perhaps your blood results are showing that kind of leaning, does not mean you can't conceive.
• 28:35
  Helen Zee: I love that.
• 28:36
  Helen Zee: I love that.
• 28:37
  Helen Zee: Thank you, because we've trained our society so much with messaging that you know old and old age it's a lot harder.
• 28:54
  Helen Zee: But I want to say around the world, as our human biology and our species, there are many, many people globally that have children in their 40s, in their late 40s, children in their 40s in their late 40s, some of them even in their early 50s, and whether that is subsequent children, predominantly subsequent children as opposed to their first child.
• 29:18
  Helen Zee: But we biologically have got the capacity that is a lot more than what has been clipped in our wings and also the glass ceiling that seems to be getting lower and lower because in our society we just say we're old once, we're after a particular age.
• 29:37
  Tasha Jennings: And we're all different.
• 29:39
  Tasha Jennings: We're all metabolically different, genetically different.
• 29:41
  Tasha Jennings: So that's why I like to get the testing done, like see where you are.
• 29:45
  Tasha Jennings: Knowledge is power and if you can have that information then I think really there's within reason.
• 29:54
  Tasha Jennings: There's no bad information, it's just okay.
• 29:56
  Tasha Jennings: What are we starting with?
• 29:57
  Tasha Jennings: What do we need to work with?
• 29:58
  Tasha Jennings: You know, is there some factors that we do need to overcome before a pregnancy is going to happen, and that does.
• 30:04
  Tasha Jennings: That is the case in a lot of my patients becoming like okay, well, unfortunately we are going to have to pause on this because there are some factors we need to work on and fix before we're going to get that healthy outcome.
• 30:16
  Tasha Jennings: I had a patient that just jumped off before, who was front of mine, and the results were.
• 30:21
  Tasha Jennings: Unfortunately, their DNA results were not great or the metabolic tests that I do to check on that weren't great.
• 30:28
  Tasha Jennings: But when we I literally just saw them before and I said actually it's come down much better.
• 30:33
  Tasha Jennings: It was like a way out of the range and now it's already looking much better.
• 30:37
  Tasha Jennings: So I said we're looking to November, which is the line we put in the sand for her.
• 30:43
  Tasha Jennings: Today is when we're going to hit the ground running with really trying to get her in.
• 30:48
  Helen Zee: Amazing, beautiful, and I know that you've got an incredibly potent supplementation range that you also use with your clients as well.
• 30:57
  Helen Zee: So it's not just pie in the sky.
• 31:00
  Helen Zee: Yeah, it is backed up.
• 31:03
  Helen Zee: So when you do give, diagnostics is so important, I'm a big believer in diagnostics because it actually helps us make choices as opposed to just going for medical intervention all the time.
• 31:15
  Helen Zee: So I'm an advocate for diagnostics.
• 31:18
  Helen Zee: What I love, and what I'm hearing as well, is you do the diagnostics.
• 31:23
  Helen Zee: This person is in front of you, but you've also got a pathway of options to support them.
• 31:29
  Helen Zee: Anchor them, because anchoring is so important.
• 31:33
  Helen Zee: Have that baseline and know where you were to, where you're going, and people also get to experience, as you say so beautifully, the side effects of the changes that they're putting into place.
• 31:46
  Helen Zee: So it's not they know that those diagnostics, the changes that they're putting into place.
• 31:49
  Helen Zee: So it's not they know that those diagnostics the next time they do that testing is going to be different, because they're already experiencing that in their vitality, in symptoms of their daily living as well.
• 32:03
  Tasha Jennings: And they're powerful markers because these are relatively difficult changes to make.
• 32:07
  Tasha Jennings: I'm not just saying you know, take this pill three times a day and things are going to be hunky-dory, you know, in two months' time.
• 32:13
  Tasha Jennings: You know there are sometimes reasonably significant dietary lifestyle shifts that we're making and to see that on paper, to see it okay, I can see the improvements and that's why in my your Fertile Pantry program, the first module, the first thing I do is give you the optimal range of blood tests.
• 32:29
  Tasha Jennings: Okay, this is the blood test reference range.
• 32:32
  Tasha Jennings: This is where you want to be and I think that is such an empowering thing and I always recommend I'm the same with you, I love diagnostics get a copy of your test results.
• 32:40
  Tasha Jennings: Don't just say they're fine, Don't just rely on the specialist or the doctor they're amazing, but they're looking for a disease or a deficiency.
• 32:47
  Tasha Jennings: You don't have that.
• 32:48
  Tasha Jennings: Get a copy of your results and then I give you a checklist to go okay, let's see, are your results optimal?
• 32:55
  Tasha Jennings: And if we're not, particularly if you're over 40, you always want to be optimal.
• 33:00
  Tasha Jennings: We want to have everything in the optimal range to get pregnant yeah, yeah.
• 33:05
  Helen Zee: And what I Absolutely love and for the person listening, I would like you to lean into this bit of advice as well is what they learn from you, because they can't get pregnant and so they're looking at their lifestyle, they're looking at their diet and optimizing their health.
• 33:29
  Helen Zee: They want longevity and knowing that there is this essence of knowing what they can do and replicate well after their baby is born, well into their 50s, into their 60s, into their 70s.
• 33:43
  Helen Zee: So I lean in and say to my clients you found Tasha, you found helen, you found whoever to really do an inventory of your life, to increase that life force, because they are the building blocks that you're also going to pass on to your child, not only genetically but the habits of when they are going to start eating.
• 34:11
  Helen Zee: You're going to know and understand healthy foods, what they do to the gut biome, how that affects a growing little child.
• 34:21
  Helen Zee: So we then become, in our forties, the teachers for when our children are that six month old that's going to start to eat, when they are growing through every phase, because this person knows, because they've been through it, yeah, yeah.
• 34:39
  Tasha Jennings: You learn so much through this process and I think, as we're saying, knowledge is power and it's empowering, because the fertility or infertility journey and IVF journey can be extremely disempowering.
• 34:50
  Tasha Jennings: And I see a lot of type A personalities in my practice and they're goal-driven, they're results orientated.
• 34:58
  Tasha Jennings: So when they're told IVF, they're like, yep, let's do this, okay, we'll do cycle after cycle after cycle, and there's this fear instilled in them that if they don't do the next cycle, that they may run out of time.
• 35:09
  Tasha Jennings: And they're so goal-driven that that's next cycle that they may run out of time.
• 35:11
  Tasha Jennings: And they're so goal driven that that's the mission that they're on.
• 35:14
  Tasha Jennings: So, and you're basically handing all your hopes and dreams over to someone else, and I find it is it's a really difficult place for these women to be in.
• 35:24
  Tasha Jennings: So, by going through all the factors that they can do to improve and also seeing someone like yourself or myself, I think, is a really good idea, because I've also seen these, unfortunately, type A personalities Google so much and they're taking a million supplements.
• 35:41
  Tasha Jennings: They're barely eating anything because they're too scared of toxins and they're scared to do this and they're, you know, inventorying everything they eat.
• 35:48
  Tasha Jennings: That is a huge stress.
• 35:50
  Tasha Jennings: So what I often say to my patients I'm going to take all that off you, so you just throw everything at me and we spend over an hour just going through everything and deep diving through everything and I'm going to give you a plan and then I'm going to help you follow that plan.
• 36:03
  Tasha Jennings: So it's so empowering on this journey, which can be disempowering, because especially women who are successful type A's, they're used to succeeding.
• 36:12
  Tasha Jennings: I know I really struggled with that.
• 36:13
  Tasha Jennings: I'm like I set a goal, I achieve it.
• 36:15
  Tasha Jennings: I set a goal, I achieve it, and now my body is just and I hated my body and there's again that disconnect.
• 36:22
  Tasha Jennings: My body wasn't doing what it was meant to do and I'm a failure.
• 36:31
  Tasha Jennings: I can't do what every other woman is seemingly capable easily.
• 36:32
  Tasha Jennings: That's what I guess the lens that you're looking through when you're struggling.
• 36:35
  Tasha Jennings: You seem everyone else is okay.
• 36:36
  Tasha Jennings: Why am I not?
• 36:37
  Tasha Jennings: And that's a very disempowering place to be, I think.
• 36:41
  Tasha Jennings: To have a plan, to have an action plan, to know to see test results getting better, that is empowering and it also relieves the stress for a lot of these type A personalities because they have a plan and they know they're in control of this aspect of their journey.
• 36:59
  Helen Zee: Oh yeah, I'm just even as you're talking and if anyone, if you're listening, you're not going to be able to see it, but if you're seeing the video, there is a softening in my body that's taking place right now because, even as you're talking, it is a softening in my body that's taking place right now Because, as you're talking, it is a homecoming.
• 37:21
  Helen Zee: It's a homecoming and this is what we spoke about before is that it's not just the egg, but it is the body, it is the home that we're all wanting to firstly be a part of.
• 37:30
  Helen Zee: And I know for myself, tasha, because I do intimacy and relationship therapy and somatic therapy, as you were talking about, you know, women and even couples that are in that type A driven element of getting things done.
• 37:51
  Helen Zee: Driven element of getting things done when we can slow down so beautifully and have that heart articulation that we and coherence that we know as human beings is available to us.
• 38:03
  Helen Zee: And there isn't.
• 38:05
  Helen Zee: I call it the inward and the downward, inwards and downwards, and there is just a dropping in to the essence of the belly, where everything just feels like a ah, yeah, and then, even if you're on this journey by yourself, having those embodiment practices to bring yourself to yourself, as well, as that partnership that takes place, then this magnetism that we talk about, even with the egg and the sperm having so much mitochondria, this is the essence, this is the spark of, of new life and possibility.
• 38:46
  Helen Zee: So that's why where I really excited, where I can actually see the alchemy changing and transferring in front of my eyes when I'm getting people to do practices, and then there is that before and that after yeah, the handing over, in that trust to know that biologically you are wired for this and it's not just a mental thing that you need to run a race for, it's an embodiment piece that comes with that as well.
• 39:19
  Tasha Jennings: Definitely, because fertility isn't about doing more.
• 39:22
  Tasha Jennings: And that's difficult for type A's to hear because they're so used to achieving everything by doing more, by slogging it out, by doing the midnight hours.
• 39:30
  Tasha Jennings: I'm sure if I told them to you know, stay up till midnight.
• 39:33
  Tasha Jennings: You know reading this document and learn every word they would do it 100%.
• 39:37
  Tasha Jennings: But fertility doesn't work like that.
• 39:39
  Tasha Jennings: I wish it did, because it would be so much easier because they'd just run towards the goal.
• 39:43
  Tasha Jennings: It is about all those things you spoke about.
• 39:45
  Tasha Jennings: It's getting in touch with your body.
• 39:47
  Tasha Jennings: It's actually doing what's right for you, which may not be the same as, as you know, the person you googled or your sister's best friend and all these other information that you're trying to do.
• 39:57
  Tasha Jennings: Everything you want to do what's right for you and you want to have that connection between your mind and body and that's what you do, that's what I know, that's what you do.
• 40:07
  Helen Zee: You allow people to have a roadmap and a GPS system back to self.
• 40:16
  Tasha Jennings: Yeah, yeah, and that's so important in this process.
• 40:18
  Tasha Jennings: We're creating a mum here, we're creating a family, and that goes beyond just yeah, the cellular biology.
• 40:27
  Helen Zee: Oh, what a nourishing conversation that we have had today.
• 40:32
  Helen Zee: What a nourishing conversation that we have had today.
• 40:35
  Helen Zee: I'm looking forward to hearing even from our listeners in what has shared, what sparked aha moments for you.
• 40:43
  Helen Zee: We would love to know, Tasha and I would definitely be looking at the commentary and also being there to extend the conversation at the commentary and also being there to extend the conversation.
• 40:55
  Helen Zee: Tasha, you've got an incredible treasure cove of resources that you've turned into Well, from your books that you've done, your online program, the one-on-one consultations that you do, the supplements that you have created that are such high quality.
• 41:14
  Helen Zee: Is there anything else that you wish to share with our listeners about working with you Well?
• 41:22
  Tasha Jennings: I do have a free guide.
• 41:23
  Tasha Jennings: If they are listening, I just I love empowering people.
• 41:25
  Tasha Jennings: So there is a free fertility over 40 guide you can find at my website.
• 41:30
  Tasha Jennings: We can put a link in the show notes as well.
• 41:32
  Tasha Jennings: But, tashajenningscomau, forward slash fertility over 40.
• 41:37
  Tasha Jennings: 40 or 4-0.
• 41:39
  Tasha Jennings: So forward slash fertility over 40.
• 41:41
  Tasha Jennings: There's just a free guide with some things five things you can do now to help improve your egg quality.
• 41:48
  Tasha Jennings: So hopefully nice and I love you know I have my podcast as well, like we do, and I love that.
• 41:55
  Tasha Jennings: People will email me and say I got pregnant because I listened to your podcast and I downloaded your free resource and I'm just so over the moon that I'm able to do that even without seeing some people.
• 42:06
  Helen Zee: We will not know.
• 42:07
  Helen Zee: We will not know the ripple effect, yeah, in what we're sharing, how we're touching someone right here right now, that is going to just be that spark of hope, the building and the staying in the trust of the body and be able to create the families that they so desire.
• 42:30
  Helen Zee: So, lastly, I just want to say I cannot wait to welcome you to the Melbourne Fertility Expo, where you are going to be a phenomenal speaker and get to answer questions and be around with our people in our community, to under one space, under one space, under one glorious roof, where people get to access the professionalism and the high-end, you know, fertility, pregnancy, postpartum professionals that we've got and an absolute goldmine here in Melbourne.
• 43:12
  Tasha Jennings: I'm so privileged to be involved.
• 43:14
  Tasha Jennings: I love what you've put together.
• 43:16
  Tasha Jennings: So, yes, people, please do come down, come along.
• 43:19
  Tasha Jennings: I'm so looking forward to speaking and connecting with women.
• 43:22
  Tasha Jennings: So come and chat, come and talk, you know.
• 43:24
  Tasha Jennings: Let us know how you found this podcast.
• 43:27
  Tasha Jennings: And also come and see us at the Expo, and I'm so looking forward to speaking to so many women and just being in that lovely bubble of space and support that is offered when you have those like-minded people under one roof.
• 43:39
  Helen Zee: It's like a big warm hug, it is yeah.
• 43:42
  Helen Zee: Thank you for your time.
• 43:44
  Helen Zee: I wish you such a beautiful, nourishing rest of your day, Tasha, as well as the people listening to us today.
• 43:53
  Helen Zee: Thank you so much.
• 43:54
  Helen Zee: Thanks for having me.
• 43:54
  Helen Zee: Helen.
• 43:55
  Helen Zee: Thank you, too, Thanks for joining us at the Home of Fertility.
• 44:03
  Helen Zee: We hope today's episode brought you clarity, comfort and connection.
• 44:10
  Liz Walton: If this podcast resonated, please share it, leave a review or subscribe.
• 44:15
  Liz Walton: This helps us support more people that are on this path.
• 44:20
  Helen Zee: And if you'd like to connect or share your story, find us on Instagram and Facebook.
• 44:25
  Helen Zee: At Australian Fertility Summit.
• 44:29
  Liz Walton: Remember, the missing piece might be waiting in a story, your body's wisdom or something new just made for you take care and we'll see you next time.