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Trump's YOLO Cabinet · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Donald Trump's cabinet picks go from mildly
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: amusing to terrifying in the span of a day. Tulsi
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence, Fox News host Pete
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Hegseth as Defense Secretary, Matt Gaetz as Attorney General, and
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: the one that broke just before we started recording, RFK Jr.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: as the Secretary of Health and Human Services. What a lineup!
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Man, we are back into it, aren't we?
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Fuck! If for a change you want to hear the
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: most hopeful conversation I've had about politics since the election,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: stick around later for my conversation with New Jersey's new senator-elect,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Andy Kim. Love Andy Kim. Love Andy Kim. More Andy Kims,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: fewer all these other people we're going to talk about.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: That's your take today is more Andy Kims, fewer Matt Gaetzis.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: That's why people tune in.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Going out on a ledge. All right. We're going to
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: have a decidedly less hopeful conversation about these Trump cabinet
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: picks and their confirmation prospects. Who knew our favorite nominees
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: would be Marco Rubio and Elise Stefanik? Matt Gaetz knew.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: That's who. On Monday, he wasn't even on Trump's shortlist
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: for the position. Two days later, the two men were
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: on a flight to D.C. together, and apparently that's all
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: it took to get the job. A Trump advisor told
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: the Bulwark's Mark Caputo that the president-elect didn't like the
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: other attorney general contenders because, quote, They talked about their
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: vaunted legal theories and constitutional bullshit. Gates was the only
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: one who said, yeah, I'll go over there and start
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: cutting fucking heads. Sounds like he nailed the interview.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: I'm laughing because I'm crying.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Don't give me your legal theories and your bullshit about
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: the Constitution. I want you to cut some fucking heads.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Gates would go from being investigated by the Justice Department
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: for sex trafficking to to leading the Justice Department. And
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: while that two-year investigation into Gates for sex trafficking didn't
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: lead to any charges, the House Ethics Committee was just
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: about to release a damning report about allegations that Gates
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: had sex with a minor. ABC News just broke that
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: the woman in question testified before Congress that she was
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: 17 when she had sex with Matt Gates. But anyway,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: that report, it's no longer happening because... Gates conveniently resigned
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: his seat now that he's been nominated for attorney general.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: The Florida congressman is one of Trump's most loyal supporters,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: but he hasn't won any popularity contests in Congress, Dan.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Here's some of what other Republicans and even Trump supporters
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: have said about Matt Gates.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: I served with some real scumbags.
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: Look, Matt Gates, he paid minors to have sex with
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: him at drug parties.
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: We had all seen the videos he was showing. on
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: the house floor that all of us had walked away
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: of the girls that he had slept with. He'd brag
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: about how he would crush ED medicine and chase it
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: with an energy drink so he could go all night.
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: I would compare him to that toddler that we've all
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: seen at the family barbecue eating toilet paper.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: What?
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: Shoving Cheerios up his nose to get attention.
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: What a mix of comments, huh?
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Have you seen a toddler eat toilet paper?
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: No.
• 3:52
  Speaker 6: No.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Have any of your kids ever put Cheerios.
• 3:54
  Speaker 6: Up their nose?
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: They have put other food up their nose. I have
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: a friend whose kid put a nut so far up
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: his nose he had to go to the hospital, so
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: anything is possible.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: But you do know plenty of people who have crushed
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: boner pills and Red Bulls, right?
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: I don't, John. I don't know what crowd you're hanging
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: out with there in L.A., but no, I don't.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Just checking. Anyway, that was Republican Congressman Tony Gonzalez, Republican
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Senator Mark Wayne Mullen, and Fox commentator Dagan McDowell. That's
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: where those came from, not Democrats. After the announcement, former
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Trump National Security Advisor John Bolton said that he thought
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: that Tulsi Gabbard was the worst cabinet pick in history
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: until he heard about Matt Gaetz. Ben Dominick, the very
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: conservative writer who founded The Federalist, wrote, quote, Let me
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: be clear. Matt Gaetz is a sex trafficking, drug addicted
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: piece of shit. He is abhorrent. There are pools of
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: vomit with more to offer the earth than this STD
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: riddled testament to the failure of fallen masculinity.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: That's beautiful writing.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Another fan. Another fan. A lot of fan mail for
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Matt Gaetz. Let's start with what Trump is trying to
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: achieve with this pick.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Please do. Please do.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: So, you know, one theory is that Gates is just
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: a wrecking ball and will go after, you know, all
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: of Trump's enemies, people who prosecuted Trump, people who investigated Trump,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: other people who displeased Trump. One theory is that this
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: is just a loyalty test and that Trump wants to
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: see just how high members of Congress will jump for him.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: A third theory that I find less persuasive is that
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: this is somehow a bait and switch and that he's
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: going to backtrack on Gates and then put forward someone
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: nearly as radical but less controversial, and that person will
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: sail through because they're not Matt Gates. What do you
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: think here?
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I've seen all three of these theories circulating on the internet.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I've seen well-credentialed smart people offering up number three. And
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: my question for all of those people are, Were you
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: in a fucking coma from 2017 to 2021? I think
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: we can stipulate that Donald Trump is probably smarter than
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: most liberals think he is, but he's not any more strategic.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: He wants Matt Gaetz there for a couple of reasons. One,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: picking Matt Gaetz as AG angers all the people Trump
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: wants to anchor. And he gets off on that. That's
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: his kink.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Mission accomplished.
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Congrats. Check that box.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: But most importantly, and most alarmingly, Matt Gaetz will investigate
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: anyone Trump wants investigated, and almost as importantly, will not
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: investigate anyone Trump doesn't want investigated. Matt Gaetz is the
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: person on this planet probably most likely to turn the
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Department of Justice into an arm of the Trump political operation.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: And that is incredibly scary, and that's why Trump wants him,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: and that's why people in both parties are concerned about this.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we should talk about, look, the focus on Gaetz's
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: potential sex crimes has really overshadowed all the other issues
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: with making this guy Attorney General. What are some of
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: your biggest concerns?
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's my biggest one is that he is
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: not a serious individual. He is probably one of the
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: most craven people in all of American politics. He has
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: basically admitted that he made himself into a pro-Trump person
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: because that was a better way to get attention, get
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: on TV, and gain power within the Republican Party. He
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: is clearly– I mean, this is someone who was being
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: investigated for sex trafficking like six months ago and now
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: is leading– could be leading the department that is investigating him.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: And so he will not, he's not going to be
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: any sort of break on Trump's worst impulses. He'll be
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: an accelerator. And that's incredibly concerning for all the reasons
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: that people talk about. If you had said before the election,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: if you tweeted, Trump's going to win and Matt Gaetz
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: is going to be the AG, people would have called
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: you out for being a hysterical liberal, right? Just because
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: it seems so ridiculous. And this is what Trump wants
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: to do. And it is quite concerning. there are a
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: lot of checks and balances within the Justice Department. You
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: have a ton of career officials there. Matt Gaetz is
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: someone who is not, even Bill Barr, for as bad
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: as he was, or Jeff Sessions, for as bad as
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: he was, was unwilling to override all of those things
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: for Donald Trump. Matt Gaetz would certainly do that.
• 8:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, look, I talk about this with Andy Kim later,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: but there's this Washington Post story today about how officials,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: former government officials, military officials, Trump administration officials who've spoken
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: out against Trump, are literally packing their bags and figuring
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: out how to leave the country, at least until they
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: know what happens with the Trump Justice Department, parking assets overseas.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: They're getting advice from lawyers on all this. We talked
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: about this a little on Tuesday. I mean, it's stunning.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: It's shocking that this is happening in the United States
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: of America. And of course, we don't know how a
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Gates-run Justice Department would go. We don't even know if
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Gates will actually get confirmed or get the job.
• 8:59
  Speaker 6: But.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: The potential for abuse is vast. And, you know, there's
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: a New York Times piece that said, like, since the election,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: one law firm got like three dozen job applications from
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: the Justice Department, from career officials, because what's going to
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: happen is a lot of people at the Justice Department,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of career officials, not Democrats, not political appointees,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: not liberals, just good lawyers who've been there for long,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: being there under Democratic and Republican presidents, like, don't want
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: to stick around to see what Donald Trump and potentially
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Matt Gaetz force them to do or not do or
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: go after them for doing their jobs. So, look, maybe
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you're not an enemy of
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump and you're not worried that he's going to
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: go after you. Just the sheer chaos that could take
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: place at the Justice Department, which is responsible for a
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: lot of work that keeps all of us safe and
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: going after a lot of crime, that could be jeopardized
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: by just having a fucking wrecking ball there.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Every minute that a Matt Gaetz, Donald Trump-led Justice Department
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: is doing political work to investigate or persecute or prosecute
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump's enemies is a moment that is not being
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: used to stop violent crime, to investigate money laundering, to
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: prevent terrorism or all the other things that happen in
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: the Department of Justice. So it matters for everyone, whether
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: you were an MSNBC talking head from 2017 to now,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: or you're just an average American person who depends in
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: some way, shape, or form on the government to keep
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: you safe.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Let's talk prospects for confirmation. Senator John Cornyn, who
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: lost the Senate leadership election but will be the number
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: two Republican on the Judiciary Committee, said he and his
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: colleagues will, quote, absolutely want to see the text of
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: this House ethics report about Gaetz. A few other Republican
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: senators have made comments that suggest they might oppose Gaetz's nomination.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Can you see a scenario where this thing goes down?
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I can.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: I absolutely can see a scenario where it goes down.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: He can only lose, we assume, four votes, presuming what
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: happens in Pennsylvania. And he probably has already lost two
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: in Collins and Murkowski. Is Mitch McConnell going to vote
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: for Matt Gaetz? Now that he's not an election.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: You're looking at like a Tom Tillis, Todd Young, like
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: some of these more like older establishment, you know, they're
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: all MAGA establishment now, but still sort of more establishment
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: type Republicans. Yeah, who knows?
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, the senators have an ability, if they want,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: if they want, to buck Trump in ways that the
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: House does not. Because some of these folks, like Senator
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: John Thune, are not up for reelection until after Donald
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Trump's out of the White House. Someone is going to
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: deliver a report to a group of senators that all
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: 100 senators will be able to read That is going
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: to be an eyewitness account and firsthand testimony of a
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: 17-year-old girl who claims she had sex with Matt Gaetz.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: And then you're going to ask these people to vote
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: for him to be the chief law enforcement officer of
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: the United States of America a week later? So I
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: think there's a real chance. Now, we can get into it.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, on the other hand. They just
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: supported Donald Trump for president.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes. So they're, I mean, yes.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: They were all in for the guy who's a convicted felon.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I am, look, you would lose a lot of money
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: betting on the moral courage and patriotism of Senate Republicans,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: but there is a possibility this goes down because there
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: is always a bridge too far. Cabinet, there is always
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: a cabinet choice or two that fails for various reasons.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: As we look at it here, and it is a
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: vicious competition, I will tell you that. But as we
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: currently look at it, this is the most likely of
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump's cabinet nominations to go down.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Well, next up.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go through them all.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: RFK Jr. You might remember a few days before the election,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: CNN's Caitlin Collins asked Trump transition co-chair Howard Lutnick if
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Kennedy would be in charge of health and human services.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: His answer, of course not. What he actually meant by
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: that is, of course. It's easy to misspeak on live television. Yeah, no,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: it was just missing a word there. Kennedy falsely believes
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: that childhood vaccines cause autism, has spread misinformation about COVID
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: and COVID vaccines, and has already pledged to remove fluoride
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: from drinking water. Former acting director of the CDC, Dr.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Richard Besser, told NBC that RFK Jr. as HHS secretary would, quote,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: imperil the health of people across the country. Though Kennedy
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: does have one unlikely supporter, Jared Polis, the Democratic governor
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: of Colorado. who said he's excited by the news and
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: thinks Kennedy will help make America healthy again by shaking
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: up HHS and FDA. Okay, first general reaction to RFK Jr.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: as our next Health and Human Services Secretary.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Do I think there's a problem and a potential danger
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: with the top healthcare official in the federal government being
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: someone who sows conspiracy theories about vaccines? Yes, I think
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: that is deeply dangerous. And if RFK Jr. is confirmed
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: or ends up in that position in one way or another,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I think that will lead to more measles, more smallpox,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: more whooping cough, and all the other things that vaccines
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: have been keeping Americans safer because now you have a
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: very famous, very prominent, former Democrat, Trump administration official spreading
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: those lies from a position of great power and authority.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: So I think that's deeply, deeply dangerous.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: I, Polis' statement is very interesting. People are very, very
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: mad about it. And he did a follow-up tweet where
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: he made the point that what RFK Jr. says about
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: vaccines is scientifically, has been proven false scientifically. It is
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: absolutely not true and is deeply dangerous. But if we
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: as Democrats say we follow the science, then some of
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: the other things that he is talking about, like the
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: dangers from factory farming, of pesticides and chemicals. If you
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: follow the science, there's also ways in which we should
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: reform our government there. And this is a big thing,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: and I'm sure it's big in Colorado. It is big
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: where we live here in California. There is a lot
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: of skepticism about big pharma, big food companies, but huge
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: greedy corporations are feeding our children. And RFK has been
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: sitting in this wellness space for a very long time
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: talking about these things. I've said this on this podcast before,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: This is something my wife brings up all the time.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: She follows a lot of influencers on Instagram. She has
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: constantly fed people in the wellness space who are RFK
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: adjacent and have become MAGA adjacent because of RFK's association
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: with Trump. And so the thing I think about this
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: is it's very dangerous. We should do everything we possibly
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: can to stop them. We have to be careful about
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: talking specifically about the vaccine stuff and not making ourselves
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: the defenders of big pharma and big food, factory farms,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: and all.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Of those other things.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: I think that's what Pulse was trying to get at,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: and he has a bit of a point there.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I fucking love Big Farmer.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: What are you talking about? I'm going to get to
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: this at the end, but this is that giant pit
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: we're about to jump right back into? That's where we're headed.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I think the reason that this is particularly combustible is,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: to your point, one result, unfortunate result of the pandemic,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: one of fucking many, is that trust in public health
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: institutions has fallen by a lot, not just among Republicans.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: And we don't have to go into why that is now,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: because you could spend a whole episode on it, but
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: we had a fast-moving, mutating, changing virus, and the CDC
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: and our public health agencies weren't always as nimble as
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: they could have been, and also maybe even the best
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: staffed agencies that made no mistakes still would have appeared
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: to be changing their minds all the time because the
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: virus kept changing, right? And, you know, you had vaccine
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: mandates and not vaccine mandates and masks and this, and
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: then there's this variant and this variant, right? Like, so
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: trust in public health institutions has gone down, right? So
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: into that steps RFK Jr., who has been peddling unfounded
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: conspiracies and misinformation about public health for a long time.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: And some of the things he said about big pharma,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: absolutely true. Some of the things he said about environmental
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: pollution and big corporations polluting the environment, absolutely true. The
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: problem with him is he doesn't necessarily follow the science
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: at all. And when the science tells him something that
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: he doesn't want to hear that flies against his own
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: preconceived notions, his own beliefs, his own theories, he just
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: ignores it, right? He has embraced raw milk. FDA is
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: saying that drinking it is risky, particularly amid a current
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: bird flu epidemic among dairy cows. But, you know, he says,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: go for it. He's also said, like, he's going to
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: go say to the National Institute of Health scientists, the
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: scientists at the NIH are the best in the world.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: They have discovered some of the best cures to disease
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: and scientific and medical innovations in the world. And he's
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: going to say, he said he's going to say to them,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: this was just recently, thank you for your public service.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: We're going to give vaccines. infectious disease a break for
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: about eight years. It's like, yeah, wouldn't we all love
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: to give infectious disease a break? But it's not going
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: to give us a break, so we might as well
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: keep studying it and not lay off a bunch of
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: scientists at the NIH. In his book, his book that
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: he wrote in 2021, he claimed in the book that Dr.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Fauci and Bill Gates are members of a vaccine cartel
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: trying to kill patients by denying them hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: He also argued that this cartel secretly funded doctors to
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: produce fraudulent studies showing that the drugs were ineffective against
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: COVID and that they did so in order to orchestrate
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: global lockdowns and accelerate the construction of 5G cellular networks,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: which of course are bad. That was from The Atlantic.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Someone had read his book, thankfully, so we didn't have to.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just, you know, it's like, but I
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: take your point and that I think that the What
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: we can't do is just like wave him away as
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: a nut because for a lot of people, they're just
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: hearing about him for the first time or they don't
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: know all of his theories. And so I think when
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: you're talking about RFK Jr. to your friends, you kind
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: of have to go into what he's done. We talked
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: about this when Lutnick first said, you know, he might
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: or might not run HHS. And I was telling about
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: the measles outbreak he helped cause.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: In Samoa, yes.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: In Samoa?
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: He personally caused a measles outbreak that cost more than
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: 80 lives.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And everyone can go read it and see for yourself.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like, you know, if he wasn't singularly responsible,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: he certainly helped. He lifted up some of the people,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: the anti-vaxxers in Samoa who were trying to stop these
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: kids from getting vaccinated and a bunch of died. So, like, look,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: the facts are all out there. Just, you know, go
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: do your own research. as RFK Jr. Might say.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, he is just, I think when you, the
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: part you just read from his book is that he
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: is that he really is sort of a maestro at
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: spitting a conspiracy theory, taking legitimate concerns that people have
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: in real questions that are worth asking, and then taking
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: that one step further into a very dangerous, very incorrect,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: and very unscientific set of solutions that is where he
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: has taken us. But we have to be able to
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: address why his solutions are wrong without seeming like we
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: don't share some of the same concerns about pollution and
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: food quality and pesticides and chemicals.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: In this country. Big day for the brain worm, huh?
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly right.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Big day for the... I also really enjoyed in the
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: New York Times story about Trump announcing him. There's just
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: like casually a sentence there. In addition to his outside
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: the mainstream views about medicine and health, he has been
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: associated with a number of peculiar activities like dumping a
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: dead bear in Central Park and supposedly decapitating a whale.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: What are we doing?
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Big day for roadkill here in America.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: What are we doing?
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Moving on to two people who Trump wants to put
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: in charge of the U.S. military and the nation's secrets
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: and spy agencies. Pete Hegseth and Tulsi Gabbard. Hegseth is
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: a co-host of Fox and Friends Weekend and an army
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: vet who loves to criticize today's allegedly woke military. He
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: also said as recently as last week, quote, I'm straight
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: up just saying we should not have women in combat roles.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: A reminder that Trump's team is also reportedly drawing up
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: an executive order so that Trump can purge the military
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: of generals he doesn't like or that he thinks are
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: too woke. I don't know. Call me crazy. I feel
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: like a A weekend cable TV host might not be
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: qualified to run a department of 2 million people. But
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: what do I know? I'm just a defender of institutions.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: He was a weekday podcast host.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: What do you think about Pete Hegseth?
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: For years now, going back to 2016, I've been making
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: a pretty unfunny joke about how Trump's cabinet picks, staff
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: picks would be just dregs of the Fox News green room. Well,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: joke's on me, people, because now he's in charge of
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: the military.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Now he's in charge of the military. You can imagine
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: that Defense Department officials, not just Biden appointees, but people
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: who've worked at the Pentagon for years and years, again,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: career officials, are sort of terrified by this. And again,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: all these nominees fit into different categories. Some of them
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: are crazy. Some of them are just, you know, they're
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: going to carry out Trump's you know, revenge wishes. And
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: then some of them are just like, have no, most
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: of them actually have no experience or qualifications for the
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: job that they're being nominated for. I think this is
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: where Pete Hegseth comes into play. Like the defense department
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: is a, that's a big department. That's a, that's, that's
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: one of the biggest, if not the biggest.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: It is the biggest, right. And it is a massive
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: management challenge. Put aside, like he obviously served in the military.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: He's a very decorated veteran, but running the department is
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: very different. And up until this point, his main role
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: in life is to be Steve Doocy's understudy.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: If that doesn't prepare you to run DOD, I don't
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: know what does.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: The fact that he's the Fox & Friends weekend anchor
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: is just so fucking funny. Like Fox & Friends anchor
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: would be funny, but Fox & Friends weekend is just
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: so much funnier. It's not funny per se because that
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: guy might be in charge of our military. And his
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: confirmation prospects went through the roof with RFK Jr.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: And Matt Gaetz.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: The Republicans will be lining up to vote for Pete
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Hegseth now because if they have to vote against one
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: of these other two people.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: So then there's Tulsi Gabbard. So she started off as
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: a Democratic congresswoman from Hawaii before going full MAGA, particularly
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: during this campaign. During her long political journey over the
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: last decade, she developed sort of strange, sympathetic views towards
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad and Russian dictator Vladimir Putin. both
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: of whom have committed crimes against humanity by slaughtering thousands
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: of their own people. She met with Assad.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Secretly.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Secret trip to Syria during the Obama administration while Assad was, again,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: slaughtering his own people, and she just decided to have
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: a meeting with him. Didn't tell anyone, just, you know,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: just a meeting. Then she said he's not our enemy.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: She defended Putin's invasion of Ukraine. She even opposed U.S.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: sanctions on Putin. Putin, again, killed thousands of Ukrainians, abducted 20,000
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Ukrainian children in this war. The war's still going. Didn't
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: want sanctions on Putin. How on earth does this person
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: get a job as the director of national intelligence?
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: She ran for the Democratic presidential nomination four years ago.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: I know. I know.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: And now she never served on the Intelligence Committee and
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: is now Donald Trump's nominee to be director of national intelligence.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: What a journey. What a fast and tumultuous journey to
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: where she is.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure Ben and Tommy will talk, go
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: get into detail about all of this and why it's
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: dangerous on Pod Save the World. But, you know, I
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: was just reading the Politico story about it. There's like
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Western intel officials from other countries telling Politico, like, you
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: know what? Other countries, including our allies, like may not
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: want to share intelligence with us anymore. And we need
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: that intelligence to like prevent terrorist attacks and other things.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: And you know, if they can't trust that, like, who
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: the fuck is Tulsi Gabbard? Just, like, freelancing on her own,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: meeting with dictators, and now she's Trump's pal who's going
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: to be the director of national intelligence despite not having
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: any experience?
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, just to put in perspective the importance of
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: this position, the director of national intelligence was a position
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: created after 9-11 when all of our separate intelligence agencies
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: and intelligences we were getting from the CIA, from Defense Department,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: from the FBI— were not brought together, which allowed 9-11
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: to happen. So we created this position. This is a
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: serious position that is supposed to manage all these various
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: intelligence agencies, bring them together, and make sure that we
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: are getting the best information to protect the United States
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: homeland from terrorism and to understand what's happening abroad. And
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: we've handed that to someone with no experience who is
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: seemingly just a pick to troll the people that Donald
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Trump hates the most in the intelligence agencies. It is.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: That is the theme through all of these. He picked
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Marco Rubio for whatever reason to be at state, and
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: he picked the random former Congressman Lee Zeldin at EPA.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: But these are little MAGA hand grenades to roll into
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: the parts of the deep state, the quote-unquote deep state
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: that he hates the most, to piss people off the most,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: to render these agencies unfunctionable.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I was going to say, in the first term,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: You know, you could look at some of his appointments
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: and think, that person's a real Yahoo, but there's an
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: entire agency, a lot of career officials, and maybe that
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: person doesn't know what the hell they're doing. Then, you know,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: there's an agency full of people who do know what
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: they're doing, and they will try to work with this
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: person and, you know, and maybe help them succeed because
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: we all want the government to succeed, right? Like, we
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: want all these agencies to do the jobs that they're
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: supposed to do. This time around, it's different because... Trump
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: and his team have been making plans to try to
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: fire not only the political appointees, get rid of the
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: political appointees at all these agencies, but the career officials.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: And either they fire some of these career officials or
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: some of these career officials might leave because they don't
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: want to stick around for this. And then you're right.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Then you just have chaos and you have a bunch
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: of agencies that don't have the people they need to
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: actually just do perform their basic functions. And that to
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: me is a real concern, aside from just the character
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: and qualifications of the people who will lead them.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: I wrote about the Gates and Tulsi Gabbard appointments and
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: message box this morning, which caused me to go back
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: and look at all of Trump's first set of cabinet appointees.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: And his approach was very different. He was clearly trying
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: back in 2017, trying to send a signal to the
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Republican establishment that he was a serious person, right? Like
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Rex Tillerson- was the CEO of Exxon. Obviously, he was
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: not a foreign diplomat, but he was a serious person, right?
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Jim Mattis at defense.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Until he was fired on the toilet.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I mean, it did not end well for
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: most of these people. John Kelly, former general at Holman.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: They were not good at their jobs. Most of them
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: didn't last very long, but they were at least people
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: who were on paper, for the most part, were qualified
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: for this job. You were swinging in the exact opposite
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: direction here. He's specifically picking people who are not qualified
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: for the jobs who will likely go in there and
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: really fuck shit up, right? That seems to be his plan.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: So big question on all these nominations is how and
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: whether they get confirmed. We talked about this a little
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: with Gates. We mentioned on Tuesday's pod that Trump might
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: try to recess a point, his entire cabinet. And just
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: as a refresher, this would require either House Speaker Mike
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Johnson or new Senate Majority Leader John Thune to adjourn Congress,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: which they can try to do with a simple majority vote.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: If either the House or Senate refuses to adjourn. So
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: let's say Mike Johnson says, yeah, we're going to adjourn.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: But John Thune says, nah, that's sort of crazy. I
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: don't want to do it. The constitution says Trump president
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: can break the tie and adjourn Congress himself. And then
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: once that happens, could just appoint his entire cabinet, no
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: confirmation hearings, no nothing. On the other hand, he may
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: not have to do this. He may be able to
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: just confirm his nominees through the regular Senate confirmation process.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Since a lot of Republicans seem like they want to
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: give Trump whatever he wants, here's how a House Republican,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Troy Nels of Texas, and a Senate Republican, Tommy Tuberville
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: of Alabama, see it.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: There was a mandate last week, Liz, that said, hey.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: We want President Trump to have his team. We want
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: to take back our country. Republicans, if you're not on
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: the team, get out of the way.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: There's no question he's the leader of our party.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: So now he's got a mission statement.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: His mission and his goals and objectives, whatever that is, we.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Need to embrace it.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: All of it.
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: Every single word.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: Again, President Trump and J.D. Vance are going to be
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: running the Senate.
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: If Donald Trump says jump three feet high and scratch
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: your head, we all jump three feet high and scratch
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: our heads.
• 30:43
  Speaker 6: That's it.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: That's actually, John, that three feet high thing you announced.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: It's a quote from the Federalist Papers.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Yes. You know, even I thought when Harris-Walls campaign and
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Democrats and the Biden-Harris campaign before that made a lot
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: out of dictator on day one, it's like, you know,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: is that really believable? And Trump was kind of joking
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: when he said it. He's, oh, I'm only going to
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: be a dictator on the first day in the world.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: And then you hear these Republicans be like, yeah, no, no,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: he can do whatever he wants. Forget Congress. Congress? What
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: are they even doing there?
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not great, Joe.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Do you think we're headed? I feel like there is
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: a very good chance that we are headed for this
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: recess appointment gambit. And the reason is because, first of all,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: it is shock and awe. It is just like you
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: said with some of these appointments. It's Trump basically saying,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: fuck everyone. I'm in charge. I'm the king here. I
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: don't need Congress. I'm going to put whoever I want
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: in my cabinet and you people try to stop me.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Or maybe he doesn't have to do it because even
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: the threat of it happening just makes them all say, sure, we'll,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe he loses Murkowski and Collins, but maybe
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: he doesn't lose the rest. And then that's that, because
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: they just don't. I mean, some people, I saw Robert
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Costa CBS reporting this, that some Republicans in the Senate
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: are privately telling him, I don't know if we really
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: have the appetite to stand up to him right now.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I think he is going to get the overwhelming majority
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: of his cabinet picks one way or the other. I
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: think most of them are just going to pass through
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: the Senate with 51 or 52 votes, right? He's going to,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: or JD Vance will finally find a useful function in
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: life and he will head down there and start breaking ties.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: I think the recess appointment is a very real live option.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: There are– and we should talk to legal experts here.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: There are some real questions about whether those appointments can stand.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: And we looked at this. We did recess appointments in
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: the Obama administration. They got struck down because we did
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: it over a short period, which the Supreme Court in
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: its very partisan– judgment decided did not count for that,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: did not count as recess for Barack Obama. A Democrat
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: must need an extended recess. We'll see what they think
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: about the Trump. But as Tommy pointed out on your
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Tuesday pod, there are some reasons to believe that the
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Supreme Court may not take the recess appointment thing super
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: seriously because it's an outdated concept, right?
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Which I believe Scalia, before he died, in the opinion
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: about the Obama thing, said that recess appointments is in
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: the Constitution, as they were conceived of in the Constitution.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: It's just not what happens anymore.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, it was when people had to ride their horses
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: back from one of the 13 original states to get
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: back in time to make an appointment, as opposed to
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: getting on a plane the next day. There are some
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: consequences going the recess appointment route. One, if you have
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: to recess appoint your own appointees when you control the Senate,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: it's just a massive blaring billboard sign of weakness and incompetence.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: So that's one. Or strength in that you don't need
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: the Senate and you're like, I don't give a shit
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: what these Republicans think.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: In past, it could be that way. It could be
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: that way. It's generally, that may seem strong in some
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: circles with your base. I'm not sure that's going to
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: be as popular as you think it is with the
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: broader electorate, which generally thinks that people should work together
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: and often votes for bipartisan government and will be one
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: of the many things we'll see in the many ads
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: in 2026 about taking back the House and the Senate.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Two is, at least in the old days, you'd pay
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: a price because senators cared about their authority, right? And
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: so if you don't allow me, the chair of the
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Judiciary Committee, to offer my advice and consent on the
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Attorney General, then I'm going to make you pay for
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: it through the funding process, the oversight process, all that.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not really counting on that happening this time. But
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: the other thing is, is that these appointments expire at
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: the end of this Congress. So you can appoint Matt
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Gaetz for two years. But in two years, you might
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: have a Democratic Senate. And so now what are you
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: going to do? You're not getting someone like Matt Gaetz
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: through the next time.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: And so this is where that fake third strategy sort
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: of comes in. This is not Trump's plan, but let's
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: say we go through this whole Gaetz thing. The ethics
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: report comes out. Senators get queasy. They didn't vet, which
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: is an important point. They clearly vetted none of these people.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Gaetz wasn't on the short list.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I say. Vetting? Yeah.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: He wasn't.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: It happened in a plane flight.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: This is a month-long process where every reporter in America
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: is going to be digging into everything Gaetz has said
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: and done. He's going to have to turn over all
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: of his financial records. It's going to be drip, drip, drip, drip,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: drip for a very long time. Trump hates bad press.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: So he pulls the plug and then he puts Judge
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Jean Pirro up and she flies right through. I don't
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: know what is going to happen here, but a recess
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: appointment process is not risk-free or penalty-free for Trump.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: So here's a question for you about the political implications
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: of this. Because one lesson... Unfortunately, I feel like I
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: have learned from this last campaign is that for voters
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: who decided the election, who do not pay close attention,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: who are not high information voters, norms, institutions, process fights,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: bad press about a crazy person that Donald Trump may
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: or may not be associated with or have hired don't
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: fucking matter. And what people really care about is something
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: that might affect them personally. And so I wonder if,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: you know, there's this moment where Donald Trump does a
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: recess appointment thing like that, and everyone, you know, you
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: can imagine the banners on MSNBC. We'll be talking about
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: it here, right? Oh my gosh, the Constitution, what's he doing?
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: He's a dictator. And then voters are just like, I
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: don't know, maybe he should... Maybe he should, I don't
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: know what's going on. Maybe he should just have his cabinet.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe he should, let's just let him do some stuff
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: first and then see what he does.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: So I got a lot of thoughts here. So buckle up. Okay, first.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: This is what I asked you the question.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: That argument works much better when it's the other party.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: If it's Democrats blocking his cabinet, when it's his own party,
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: that's a different story. This is Obama was able to
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: go out and say, they are preventing me from getting
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: my secretary of labor. So I'm going to use a
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: recess appointment. They've been blocking him for months and months
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: and months. Mitch McConnell, as people are saying, he shouldn't
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: even get a cabinet. So he went out and made
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: a recess appointment. Different story if it is your own
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: party you can't get on board. But I think the
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: broader point here, and this goes for how we talk
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: about all of these nominees, it goes for how we
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: talk about the Doge Commission and all these other things,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: is the lesson here is, and this is the lesson
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: we have to learn from the first Trump presidency, is
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: When Trump does bad things and he attacks people and
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: institutions and science and the FBI and the CIA, our
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: natural reaction cannot be to become the defender of the
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: status quo. This is partly what Jared Polis was trying
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: to get at, perhaps maybe not as articulately as possible
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: with the RFK thing. We cannot end this by being
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: that we're going to defend all the institutions in this country,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: all the processes, the political system, all of those things.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: We have to- It's.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Like you might have tried to- You might try to
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: upend the FBI, but we have 35 former FBI officials
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: who have signed a letter, and now it's fucking checkmate.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, you think your egg prices are too high? Wait
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: till you see my letter from 35 Ivy League Nobel
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Prize winning economists.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, this is, yeah. I'm with you.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: I feel in just, like, I haven't seen a lot
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: from elected Democrats yet. They've been sort of holding their
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: powder dry here, to their credit. But when you sort
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: of see the cable conversation, the Twitter conversations, we're right
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: back into it. This is how we got ourselves in
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: this mess. We are becoming the elite defenders of the
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: status quo at a time of historic cynicism about politics
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: and distrust in institutions. The way in which we navigate that,
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: and this is a much broader, longer conversation, is we
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: have to become the party of reform. We have to
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: be the party that wants to reform the system. We
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: want to take the money out of politics. We want
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: to stop the corporate influence. And we're going to have
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: a huge opportunity to do that because, oh, I don't know,
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: the world's richest man is pulling the strings on the
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: president right now while he's waiting for billions of dollars
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: in Defense Department contracts for his personal companies.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, I saved that for last, the best for last,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: because I do think of all the shit that we've
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: talked about, the Doge Commission might present the best opportunity
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: for Democrats here because, so Doge, Department of Government Efficiency-
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Also the name of a fucking Bitcoin that Elon Musk
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: has or whatever started. I don't know what the fuck
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: you do. I don't know how to talk about that. Anyway,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: so Vivek Ramaswamy, Elon Musk running the Department of Government.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Efficiency not really a government department but something they're providing
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: outside advice for I thought originally it was just like
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: this blue ribbon commission and they could go like I
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: made this joke it's like the MAGA Simpson Bowles Commission
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: So I made this joke to Max on offline, so
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: people will hear it on Sunday too. And I said,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: the only people who will be laughing at this are
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Dan Pfeiffer and Ben Rhodes. Maybe Tommy.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: I'm laughing on the outside. I'm crying on the inside
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: out of some PTSD from being in the White House
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: with the Simpson Bulls and sadness for you personally for
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: having made that joke.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: You're self-aware about it, so I appreciate that.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: It's very pathetic of me. Anyway, so, yeah, so some...
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: They keep them busy, they identify all these cuts, and then,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: of course, you have to, you know, bring it to Congress,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: and Congress is like, okay, fuck off, whatever. But the
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Washington Post had a story about how the White House
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: is preparing to try a novel strategy for adopting the
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Doge's recommendations, even if Congress does not. There's some 1974
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Act and Poundman Act or whatever where they can... The
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Trump people think that the president is able to say, oh,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Congress decided that we have to spend this money, but
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: we don't actually have to spend the money that Congress appropriates.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Screw them. And basically, you know, the power of the
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: purse is not with Congress, but with Donald Trump and
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy. And here's Vivek Ramaswamy previewing its mandate.
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: We're not thinking small, we're playing big here, because we
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: have a once-in-a-generation mandate right now. The American people have
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: voted for drastic reform of the government, and our federal
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: government is broken. Elon and I, I mean, Elon's solving
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: major problems of physics. I came from the world of biology.
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: What we're solving here now is not a natural problem.
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: This is a man-made problem, and when you have a
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: man-made problem, you better darn well have a man-made solution.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, I forgot that his voice is going to be back.
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: Oof.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: So Elon Musk had said, like, you know, I think
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: we can cut $ 2 trillion from the federal government. It's
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: a $ 6. 5 trillion budget. You can't cut $ 2 trillion from
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: the federal budget without cutting Medicare, Social Security, health programs,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: retirement programs, education programs, programs that people rely on. So
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It seems like if they try to
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: do that, it feels like that's something that could be unpopular.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the way we have to approach this
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: very strategically— Like you and I look at this and
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of people have since looked at this and
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: it's like, here are two fucking MAGA clowns with a
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: fake job just running through the government trying to make
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: some proposals. And the way a lot of the country
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: will approach this is here are two pretty successful business
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: people looking at a ineffectual and waste-ridden government.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: And by the way, a lot of waste to get
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: rid of in the government. That's the point. Barack Obama
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: was obsessed with this and did not get as far
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: as he wanted. No. He wanted to, there were multiple
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: proposals to combine a couple departments. I think we were
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: going to like Combined commerce and something else. I don't know.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: You're losing your cabinet seat, small business administration, yes.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: And here's the point.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Do your salmon joke.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: No.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: No. We did enough of that during the State of
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: the Union. Elon Musk and Donald Trump, they have this point,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: which is you go into government, and we tried to
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: do this. You try to combine agencies, and suddenly everyone
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: at the agencies and the secretaries, the cabinet officials in
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: those agencies are like, absolutely not. Why can't we combine them?
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Why can't we get rid of all this? because blah, blah, blah.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: And they give you a blizzard of words that don't really,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: they're not a compelling argument, but it's just like the
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: bureaucracy just really does make it hard to reform government.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: So like that is true.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: This idea is going to be pretty popular. It is
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: like the scene from Dave when he brings his accountant
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: in to work on the federal budget. Like it is people,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: people under, it makes sense. So the way we should
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: approach it as Democrats is we should agree that there
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: is too much waste in government. We should look for
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: places to make it more efficient and work better and
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: make us better stewards of tax credit. We should absolutely
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: do that. And then we should say, if these guys
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: come up with good ideas, we're open to listen to
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: them because we agree government should be more efficient and
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: we should save money. Let's see their proposals. Let's make
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: them put their cards on the table. What is the
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: $ 2 trillion? Elon Musk told Tucker Carlson he wanted to
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: eliminate like 300 federal agencies. What are those agencies? Are
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: they going to help people like flood victims? Are they
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: protecting our food, our air and water? Are they preventing diseases? FEMA?
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: What are those?
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Put them on the table. Where are you going to
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: get your $ 2 trillion? Are you going to get it
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: from Social Security and Medicare? Are you going to get
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: it from education? Are you going to get it from
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: disease prevention? Where is that coming from? Put it on
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: the table and let's have a big, giant debate about
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: it because they're doing this thing at the exact same
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: moment that Donald Trump and the Republicans are trying to
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: pass a multi-trillion dollar unpaid for tax cut for billionaires
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: and corporations.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that is the sort of general advice
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: on all of these things, which is think about how
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: an action, not just words, not like Donald Trump said
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: something crazy or Elon Musk said something crazy or the
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: cabinet secretaries who are all fucking nuts said something crazy,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: but like we should focus on how these policies and
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: actions and legislation actually affect real people. Because I think
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: that is, we sometimes just get caught up in the
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: offensive comments and the craziness and the chaos, which there's
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: plenty of. but voters care about what actually affects them.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: And they could do a lot of damage, all these people.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: So we'll see.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: As people who work in government and believe as part
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: of our political philosophy that government can and should help people,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: we understand the value of experts and experienced people doing
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: these jobs because we've seen it. When there are good
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: people in those jobs and bad people in those jobs,
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: it makes a huge difference. That is not how most
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: of the public sees this. They don't necessarily think that
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: some of these people that Trump has appointed are that
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: should be disqualified simply because they don't have quote-unquote government experience.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: They just elected Donald Trump twice.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Not putting a premium on government experience.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: They've been pretty clear on what they think about traditional
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: political experience. And so the arguments we make about these people,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: as I think we did around RFK Jr., is, as
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: you pointed out, how what they will actually do will
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: hurt people. And I think an important meta-argument, because we
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: want to tie all these people together, is not that
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: it's a bunch of inexperienced clowns is that Donald Trump
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: is picking a bunch of people who are loyal to
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: him above anything else, who will put Donald Trump's interests first,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: not your interests. And that is the thread that combines
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: them all. And I think that's how to talk about this.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I very much agree. Okay, when we come back
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: from the break, you'll hear my conversation with Congressman and
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Senator-elect Andy Kim. Two quick things before we do that.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Polar Coaster, Dan, you, looks
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: at what the polls got right, where they fell short,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: and what we still don't know. Then Caroline Reston joins
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: to tackle listeners' burning questions. Anything you want to say
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: about this episode?
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that the polar coaster questions submitted
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: from the Friends of the Pod Discord are always incredibly
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: smart and nerdy, as they were this time as well,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: which you and I would appreciate.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: Love that.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: But we made a specific call out for some more
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: fun questions. So we got into some more fun stuff,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: including which members of the Bravoverse would make the best
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: presidential candidates. So I'll just tease you with that.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Wow. All right, I'm in.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: I'm in.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: You got me. To catch this exclusive subscriber series, sign
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: up at crooked.com slash friends. Also this week on Hysteria,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: Aaron and Alyssa bring together journalist Aaron Haynes, activist Julissa Arce,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: and comedian Megan Gailey to talk about the election. Hear
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: their takes on everything from what it really takes for
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: a woman to become president to why people voted for
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: abortion rights while supporting anti-abortion candidates and whether it's time
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: to cut off your Trumpy friends. You can subscribe to
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Hysteria wherever you get your podcasts and you can catch
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: full episodes on their YouTube channel. When we come back,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Andy Kim. Joining us today, a Democratic member of Congress
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: who was just elected to be the brand new senator
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: from the state of New Jersey, Andy Kim. Welcome and congrats.
• 47:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, thanks, John, for having me on.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: I'm excited. So you just won in a state that
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: swung fast. 10 points to the right between 2020 and 2024.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: And one reason I wanted to talk to you is
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: because a few days after the election, you posted what
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: I thought was a really thoughtful thread about the conversations
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: you had when you won your House seat back in
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: 2020 with people who voted for you and voted for
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Can you talk about why it was important
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: to you to have those conversations and what you learned
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: from them?
• 48:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, happy to talk about that. I mean, to set
• 48:11
  Speaker 6: the stage, you know, I flipped a Republican district in 2018,
• 48:16
  Speaker 6: a district that Trump won in 2016. And then in 2020,
• 48:20
  Speaker 6: Trump was on the ballot and he won my congressional district.
• 48:23
  Speaker 6: But so did I. I outperformed Biden by eight points
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: in 2020 to win. And I was one of only
• 48:28
  Speaker 6: seven Democrats in the country to win a district that
• 48:32
  Speaker 6: Trump won. And, you know, given that our House majority
• 48:34
  Speaker 6: was only five votes that time, you know, we saw that,
• 48:37
  Speaker 6: you know, If me and four other Dems in these
• 48:39
  Speaker 6: tough districts lost, we wouldn't have the inflation reduction act,
• 48:43
  Speaker 6: the infrastructure law. So I was really trying to just
• 48:47
  Speaker 6: kind of hone in and understand what is it? Why
• 48:50
  Speaker 6: is it that 20,000 to 25,000 people in my congressional
• 48:53
  Speaker 6: district voted for Trump and voted for me? And so
• 48:56
  Speaker 6: I wanted to do that kind of research afterwards. I
• 48:59
  Speaker 6: found that very few campaigns, if any, were doing that
• 49:02
  Speaker 6: kind of operation. And so we just took it upon
• 49:05
  Speaker 6: ourselves to to do a series of conversations. And it
• 49:07
  Speaker 6: was really powerful. I mean, I think the overarching lesson
• 49:11
  Speaker 6: that I learned then that I still think is valid
• 49:15
  Speaker 6: is just that just understanding and feeling the visceral, not
• 49:19
  Speaker 6: just desire, but frankly, disgust that so many people have
• 49:24
  Speaker 6: in politics, in the status quo, in what's happening right now.
• 49:30
  Speaker 6: You know, oftentimes my you know, in these districts, you know,
• 49:33
  Speaker 6: they're called battleground, frontline districts, things like, it makes it
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: sound like there's like a blue army and a red army,
• 49:38
  Speaker 6: like duking it out every single day. And whoever survives
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: wins the election. But what I really saw was just like, honestly,
• 49:45
  Speaker 6: like the vast, vast, vast majority of people in my
• 49:48
  Speaker 6: congressional district, honestly couldn't stand either party. And, you know,
• 49:52
  Speaker 6: the biggest divide wasn't just red and blues, like between
• 49:55
  Speaker 6: those who were engaged and those who are not, those
• 49:59
  Speaker 6: who are just so distrusting or frankly apathetic to what
• 50:03
  Speaker 6: is happening. So that was a really big eye-opener and
• 50:06
  Speaker 6: one that gave me a sense of what needs to
• 50:08
  Speaker 6: happen next.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: What do you think needs to happen next? And the
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: question I always ask is, because I agree that I
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: think that maybe the most salient divide in politics right
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: now is between people who pay a lot of attention
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: to politics and consume a lot of political news, junkies
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: like me, whether you're a And then the vast majority
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: of people in this country who don't follow politics that closely,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: but still, you know, they probably still turn out to
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: vote maybe just in a presidential and not a midterm.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: And I wonder if all, you know, we're having a
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: lot of discussions now about like, what's next for the
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Democratic Party? Where did we go wrong? What can we fix?
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: But sometimes I think to myself, there's just a whole
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: bunch of people who aren't hearing any of this. And
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: if we don't get them involved and engaged in politics, then,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: you know, we're not going to hold power again.
• 50:58
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, it's just like so much of what
• 51:00
  Speaker 6: I felt like the conversation was in the final couple
• 51:03
  Speaker 6: weeks of this campaign. It was like this sense of
• 51:05
  Speaker 6: who's got the energy on their side, right? And like,
• 51:08
  Speaker 6: you know, getting the sense of the rallies and the
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: Chicago convention or small dollar donors. And we realized that
• 51:14
  Speaker 6: none of that really gave any sense of what actually
• 51:17
  Speaker 6: was going to unfold. And I think there needs to
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: be a clear understanding of what I call, you know,
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: I try to practice what I call politics of humility.
• 51:25
  Speaker 6: You know, it starts by saying, We don't have the answers.
• 51:28
  Speaker 6: Nobody right now, you know, I know a lot of
• 51:30
  Speaker 6: people are pontificating right now, and that's fine. But we
• 51:34
  Speaker 6: have to come at it from a sense of humility,
• 51:36
  Speaker 6: just sense that, like, we don't know. Nobody knows fully
• 51:40
  Speaker 6: what went wrong. Then we need to take on the
• 51:42
  Speaker 6: process of actually listening to people. And I think that
• 51:45
  Speaker 6: was a really important step that, you know, I took
• 51:48
  Speaker 6: on in 2020. I strongly recommend it. But it was
• 51:51
  Speaker 6: just one of those situations. You know, back in 2020,
• 51:54
  Speaker 6: I told you there was only seven of us that
• 51:56
  Speaker 6: won a district that Trump won, you know, really at
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: no point after that election, did anyone from leadership or
• 52:01
  Speaker 6: the White House or others come to the seven of
• 52:03
  Speaker 6: us and say, you know, how'd you do it? You know, like,
• 52:06
  Speaker 6: what do you need to do it again? How do
• 52:07
  Speaker 6: we replicate or scale some of this? You know, and
• 52:10
  Speaker 6: I think there was just too much of a sense
• 52:12
  Speaker 6: of just like, you know, we know the answers, we
• 52:15
  Speaker 6: need to move forward. So I really hope that there
• 52:17
  Speaker 6: is a deep and meaningful process that unfolds, that is coordinated,
• 52:22
  Speaker 6: that is thoughtful and engaged. and try to listen. And
• 52:29
  Speaker 6: the way I sort of say it is like, if
• 52:30
  Speaker 6: you're only having comfortable conversations in politics, it means you're
• 52:34
  Speaker 6: not talking to all the people you need to be
• 52:36
  Speaker 6: talking to. You know, politics should inherently be uncomfortable. You know,
• 52:40
  Speaker 6: it should inherently be difficult. But, you know, it's so
• 52:45
  Speaker 6: easy to make us want to just be able to
• 52:47
  Speaker 6: be in the room with people that agree with us
• 52:49
  Speaker 6: and throw these nice rallies and everyone's happy. But you know,
• 52:52
  Speaker 6: we need to find ourselves in a place that's more difficult.
• 52:56
  Speaker 6: But you got to show up. You know, in my
• 52:58
  Speaker 6: old congressional district that voted for Trump, you know, there
• 53:00
  Speaker 6: was no, you know, democratic operation on the ground outside
• 53:04
  Speaker 6: of my campaign and, you know, the other efforts that
• 53:06
  Speaker 6: are there. You know, in New Jersey, so much of
• 53:08
  Speaker 6: the resources for the party is in deep blue areas.
• 53:12
  Speaker 6: You know, like, if we want to go out there
• 53:13
  Speaker 6: and engage people, you got to show up. You know,
• 53:16
  Speaker 6: I've now done 80 town halls as a member of Congress.
• 53:19
  Speaker 6: I've learned a lot from just meeting people where they're
• 53:22
  Speaker 6: at and trying to operate. The second thing I'll just say,
• 53:26
  Speaker 6: beyond just the showing up part, because it's important, but
• 53:29
  Speaker 6: as I said earlier, there is a visceral, visceral distrust
• 53:35
  Speaker 6: in the status quo. I think it's going to be
• 53:38
  Speaker 6: something that we have to unpack when we run on
• 53:40
  Speaker 6: a message about protecting democracy, protecting governance. We also have
• 53:46
  Speaker 6: to show that that does not mean that we are
• 53:48
  Speaker 6: protecting a broken status quo that has created the largest
• 53:52
  Speaker 6: amount of inequality in American history, that has led for
• 53:55
  Speaker 6: so many people to feel alienated, so many people to
• 53:58
  Speaker 6: feel like, you know, the politics doesn't work for them. So,
• 54:02
  Speaker 6: you know, how do we show like, yes, we should
• 54:05
  Speaker 6: be protecting our democracy, we should be, you know, trying
• 54:08
  Speaker 6: to prevent so much of this fragility to be decimated
• 54:13
  Speaker 6: and broken by those who are putting themselves ahead of
• 54:16
  Speaker 6: what's right for this country. But we cannot be seen
• 54:19
  Speaker 6: as a party that is just thinking everything's fine otherwise.
• 54:23
  Speaker 6: And I think that that sense of how do we
• 54:26
  Speaker 6: show what we are trying to do different from the
• 54:28
  Speaker 6: status quo, how we're trying to take it in a
• 54:31
  Speaker 6: different direction, I think that'll be key to unlocking how
• 54:35
  Speaker 6: we try to do this, not just from a talking
• 54:37
  Speaker 6: point communication approach, but from an actual vision and a
• 54:43
  Speaker 6: strategy for what comes next in our country.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: You mentioned the importance of having uncomfortable conversations. I know
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: you've offered some advice on how to have effective uncomfortable
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: conversations with people who may not agree with you. What
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: are some of the most important tips you'd like to
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: offer people?
• 55:02
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well, look, I mean, I think this is something
• 55:04
  Speaker 6: that I'll just kind of sum up in this way
• 55:06
  Speaker 6: is like, So often in the political sphere, especially down
• 55:09
  Speaker 6: in DC at the Capitol, you know, like there's this
• 55:14
  Speaker 6: overarching question of like, what's the right message? Do we
• 55:16
  Speaker 6: have the right message? And that is obviously a very
• 55:19
  Speaker 6: important question. But there are two other important questions. One is,
• 55:24
  Speaker 6: who is the right messenger? And then third, does the
• 55:27
  Speaker 6: message you're actually trying to convey actually get to the
• 55:30
  Speaker 6: people you're trying to talk to? And that is so often,
• 55:32
  Speaker 6: like the people in my congressional district or my state
• 55:35
  Speaker 6: who are distrusting of politics. They're not following the DSCC
• 55:42
  Speaker 6: or Hakeem Jeffries or Chuck Schumer on social media. How
• 55:46
  Speaker 6: do you actually get to them? First and foremost, showing
• 55:50
  Speaker 6: up is important. Having that sense of humility. The way
• 55:54
  Speaker 6: I describe it is when you are filled with hubris
• 55:56
  Speaker 6: in politics, people can tell. They can tell when you're
• 56:00
  Speaker 6: talking to them and you feel like you have all
• 56:03
  Speaker 6: the right answers. Because if you feel like you have
• 56:04
  Speaker 6: all the right answers, What's the point in talking to somebody?
• 56:07
  Speaker 6: You're not actually going to learn something from them. So
• 56:10
  Speaker 6: what ends up happening is that conversation is more about
• 56:12
  Speaker 6: trying to convert that person to your position rather than
• 56:16
  Speaker 6: having a meaningful dialogue. And people can see through that.
• 56:18
  Speaker 6: And honestly, they find it insulting. And so it's important
• 56:22
  Speaker 6: that we understand how to be able to engage, how
• 56:26
  Speaker 6: to be able to listen, have those types of opportunities
• 56:29
  Speaker 6: on that front. Oftentimes, I try to do it in
• 56:32
  Speaker 6: ways that are not overtly political, like try to, you know,
• 56:35
  Speaker 6: do town halls, do other things where I can try
• 56:37
  Speaker 6: to bring people in the fold. Because honestly, a lot
• 56:40
  Speaker 6: of people that voted for Trump, they're not going to
• 56:42
  Speaker 6: show up to something that's branded as a Democratic Party
• 56:45
  Speaker 6: meeting or, you know, a listening session in that kind
• 56:48
  Speaker 6: of vein. So, you know, we need to be thoughtful
• 56:51
  Speaker 6: about how it is we actually make sure we have
• 56:53
  Speaker 6: the right people in the room that are willing to talk.
• 56:55
  Speaker 6: Not everyone's going to be willing to talk. And not
• 56:58
  Speaker 6: everyone is the right messenger, the right communicator. And I
• 57:01
  Speaker 6: think that that's going to be important going forward. But look,
• 57:05
  Speaker 6: I mean, there were a lot of people that, you know,
• 57:08
  Speaker 6: some of my Senate class, you know, they outperformed the party.
• 57:12
  Speaker 6: They've shown that they are able to bring on board
• 57:15
  Speaker 6: other voters. You know, there are things here that we
• 57:18
  Speaker 6: can learn from. Now the question is, how do we
• 57:21
  Speaker 6: scale it? And how do we try to replicate it? So,
• 57:25
  Speaker 6: you know, it's going to be challenging, but that's where
• 57:27
  Speaker 6: we start.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: So now you're going to be a senator, and boy,
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: what a wonderful time to be in the U.S. Senate.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: I saw you came out in opposition to Matt Gaetz's
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: nomination to be attorney general. Just, you know, in terms
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: of the conversation we were just having, what would you
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: say to a constituent who doesn't know much about Matt
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Gaetz and can't quite understand why he's not fit to
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: be attorney general?
• 57:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well, look, I think the first and foremost, what
• 57:53
  Speaker 6: I try to do is lay out that this isn't
• 57:56
  Speaker 6: about just one person. This isn't just about all of
• 58:00
  Speaker 6: these folks. I don't want to play whack-a-mole here. I
• 58:04
  Speaker 6: want to lay out that as someone who's worked in
• 58:06
  Speaker 6: public service, I want to lay out that, look, we
• 58:09
  Speaker 6: should be having people who understand that we're part of
• 58:12
  Speaker 6: something bigger than all of us, that the oath that
• 58:14
  Speaker 6: they swear is to a constitution, not to an individual,
• 58:18
  Speaker 6: not to the president. And right now, I do think
• 58:22
  Speaker 6: that people want to try to move forward in a
• 58:26
  Speaker 6: way that isn't going to just be the same old,
• 58:28
  Speaker 6: same old. And so I think what I hope people
• 58:33
  Speaker 6: see is this concern about the weaponization of these roles,
• 58:38
  Speaker 6: these incredibly powerful positions that can be weaponized and just
• 58:42
  Speaker 6: make things even worse, more divided as a country. And
• 58:46
  Speaker 6: for me, I'm trying to think that through thoughtfully. I'm,
• 58:50
  Speaker 6: for the first time in my life, going to have
• 58:51
  Speaker 6: a chance to vote on these nominations in the U.S. Senate.
• 58:55
  Speaker 6: I get to do a job that only 2,000 people
• 58:57
  Speaker 6: in the history of America have ever done. So I
• 58:59
  Speaker 6: do want to be thoughtful about it. I am trying
• 59:02
  Speaker 6: to gather up and not shoot from the hip. I
• 59:04
  Speaker 6: want to be careful with how I make my case
• 59:07
  Speaker 6: to the people of New Jersey and this country about
• 59:09
  Speaker 6: how I feel about these different people that come before us. But,
• 59:14
  Speaker 6: you know, I think first and foremost, though, anyone that
• 59:18
  Speaker 6: is going to try to earn my vote and hopefully
• 59:20
  Speaker 6: the votes of other senators, you know, they do need
• 59:23
  Speaker 6: to come with that sense of public service, that sense that,
• 59:27
  Speaker 6: they will try to use this position as a means
• 59:30
  Speaker 6: to try to move our country forward. And if they don't,
• 59:33
  Speaker 6: I will stand up against them. I will vote against them.
• 59:36
  Speaker 6: I will do everything I can to be able to
• 59:38
  Speaker 6: stop them from doing the damage that I think that
• 59:40
  Speaker 6: they could do to our country.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: The Washington Post ran a story today with the headline,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Go Bags, Passports, Foreign Assets, Preparing to be a Target
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: of Trump's Revenge. And it's basically a story about a
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: lot of former government officials, some are military, some law enforcement, Democrats, Republicans,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: even former Trump officials who've just spoken out against the president.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: And now they are actually thinking about leaving the country
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: for some period of time because they're worried about political retribution.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: What's your reaction to that?
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 6: Well, first of all, my reaction is, I mean, I
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 6: haven't seen that article, but I've heard some of these
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 6: types of stories. The first thing I guess I'll say
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 6: is it's just really sad. You know, it's sad that
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 6: we've gotten to this place. that the greatest, most powerful
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 6: country in the world is being brought to its knees
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 6: in terms of just how fragile our democracy is. I'm
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 6: a father of a seven-year-old and a nine-year-old. I'm two
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 6: little boys. I'm just really terrified. I'm really sad by
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 6: this question of what kind of America they're going to
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 6: grow up in. The fact that I know people, yeah,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 6: people who are saying they might have to go into hiding.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 6: They might have to leave the country, whether that's because
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 6: you know, of any number of different reasons. But, you know,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 6: that's sad, you know, and look, for me, I got
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 6: my start as a civilian working in government, you know, I,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 6: I worked under the Bush administration, when I was brand new,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 6: right out of college, I worked my way up from
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 6: the photocopy room at the State Department, you know, and like,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 6: I believe in a America where like public service is
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 6: an honorable thing, you know, where it's something that that
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 6: we should aspire to. You know, my parents were so
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 6: proud to come to America and raise their family here.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 6: You know, they came here 50 years ago. And the
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 6: idea now that so much of public service is being denigrated,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 6: so many people are worried that there's just this purge
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 6: that's going to happen. They're going to dig through people
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 6: and try to do a loyalty test and things like that.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 6: You know, it's sad that it's happening. And I would
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 6: certainly do my best as someone who's, you know, worked
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 6: in that kind of capacity to see what kind of
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 6: protections we can have. But You know, it's sad. And honestly,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 6: I saw some of this with people I worked with
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 6: before in government. I saw some of this during the
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 6: first term of the Trump administration. They were not as
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 6: effective at doing it at that time. And I worry
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 6: that they're going to come back this time around with
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 6: much more velocity and much more strategy than they did
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 6: the first time around. So that's even more worrisome, honestly.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: You mentioned you have a background in national security and
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: foreign policy in both the Bush administration and the Obama administration.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: Trump also announced Tulsi Gabbard as director of national intelligence
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: and Fox News host Pete Hegseth as defense secretary. Early
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: thoughts on those picks and just beyond those picks, Trump's
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: foreign policy in a second term, things you're watching for,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: things you're concerned about.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, just overarching again. I mean, this is
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 6: something that it doesn't necessarily surprise me to see some
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 6: of these names. I mean, we knew it would be loyalist.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 6: You know, we knew it would be people that, you know,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 6: that was one of the main things. Trump said it himself, like,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 6: you know, how he, you know, compared to the first term,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 6: he felt like, you know, he didn't have people that
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 6: would just do whatever he wanted them to do. And,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 6: you know, that's really, that's so alarming. As I said,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 6: you know, this idea that we should be serving the Constitution,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 6: you know, not an individual, but that is something that
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 6: we're not going to have if these people are confirmed.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 6: And it's not just that they're going to be loyal
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 6: in just a potentially, you know, blinded way, but, you know,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 6: it's just like, I guess the way I was just
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 6: sort of say it is like, this is such a moment,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 6: not just domestically, but like we're entering this new era
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 6: globally right now that is so dangerous, so worrisome. And,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 6: you know, I, Just the idea that I really do
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 6: believe that the next four to five years are going
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 6: to shape the next four to five decades. And the
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 6: idea that these are the people that are going to
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 6: be at the helm, having worked at the Pentagon before,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 6: to have somebody who just so blatantly says that women
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 6: should not be in combat roles, other things like that,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 6: that are just so clearly out of touch with where
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 6: I think our country should be moving towards. So, again,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 6: I don't want to say I'm shocked or surprised because, unfortunately,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 6: this is what we knew would happen if he won
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 6: a second term. And now we just need to really
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 6: think through what do we do to really show the
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 6: American people why these are people that are going to
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 6: be damaging to our country. And I hope to, as
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 6: someone in national security that has that experience before, be
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 6: able to show You know, this is what we get.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 6: This is what happens when you politicize national security. You know,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 6: I used to try to believe in this line that,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 6: you know, like that, you know, the last, you know,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 6: the last place that partisan politics should belong is in
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 6: the situation room. You know, and I worked in that
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 6: situation room for a lot of different meetings of intensity.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 6: And I'm just trying to right now imagine that room.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 6: I know exactly where the DNI sits. I know exactly
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 6: where SecDef normally sits. And like, I just... I'm so
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 6: worried because I know what kind of power that they
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 6: have and trying to think about, you know, what is
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 6: it that's going to be able to withstand some of
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 6: this danger going forward? You know, I hope to play
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 6: my role from the Senate side. But, you know, unfortunately,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 6: so much of what we learned a couple years ago
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 6: is that what we thought were checks and balances of
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 6: our democracy ended up just being norms, that if people
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 6: ignored those norms and that normative behavior, you know, you
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 6: didn't have the teeth that was necessary to change that. So,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 6: you know, that's something I'm hoping we can really confront.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: What are some of your priorities and hopes for this
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: term in Congress, your first term here as a senator?
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, it's very difficult. There's a Republican trifecta,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: Trump in the White House, Republicans control the Senate and
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: the House. And, you know, I can tell from talking
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: to you and what you've said, like, you You didn't
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: run so you can just be someone who opposes everything
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: and says no. But at the same time, I'm sure
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: you have things that you really want to get done.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: How are you thinking about what you can get done,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: what your priorities are, what you want to fight for
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: in these next couple of years?
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 6: Well, I'll be honest. I think my priorities in terms
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 6: of a lot of issues are frankly the same as
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 6: they would have been regardless of the outcome of November 5th.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 6: We have to address the high costs, the challenges that
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 6: people are facing. I can't express enough just how much
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 6: anxiety people have. When I talk to people, they speak
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 6: as if it's this heaviness that's sitting upon their chest.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 6: You can tell just how worried people are. And it's
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 6: not just about the high costs. It's one thing if
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 6: you have a high cost, but you have a path
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 6: forward that you feel confident is going to address that
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 6: economic challenge. But right now, the deep unpredictability that is
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 6: out there in the world right now is what is
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 6: really adding to it. People don't know what's going to
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 6: happen six months from now, next year, let alone next week. And,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 6: you know, just like, how can we live with this
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 6: much anxiety and unpredictability in our lives? So, you know,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 6: that's something that at a fundamental level I'm trying to tackle.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 6: So yes, we want to make sure that we're taking
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 6: meaningful steps on trying to address high costs. I am
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 6: trying to think through, like, look, I'm a young dad.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 6: I think it's important to have the voices of young
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 6: parents in the U.S. Senate, in Congress, in government, So
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 6: talking about the mental health crisis right now in this country,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 6: especially when it comes to youth, I do think that
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 6: there's space there to be able to have a major
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 6: bipartisan push on addressing mental health. I'm hopeful that right
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 6: now the innovation curve is so important. We're entering this
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 6: era of such velocity and acceleration when it comes to
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 6: innovation that We were able to pass the Chips and
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 6: Science Act in a bipartisan way. Is there a 2.0
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 6: that we can work on to address this question about
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 6: American global competitiveness? Is there someone there that will work
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 6: with me to address how to shore up and secure
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 6: our supply chain, which was one of the biggest reasons
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 6: that we experienced high prices and global shocks was because
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 6: we did not insulate and protect our economy to be
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 6: resilient to these global shocks to supply chains. So yes,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 6: I hope that we can engage in that kind of approach. But,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 6: you know, we'll see. We'll see. And I'm going to
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 6: try to, you know, try to engage and show people that, like, look,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 6: there's a path of less resistance if you choose some
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 6: of these types of issues that I think we can
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 6: try to find some meaningful engagement on. But I'm not
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 6: going to be naive. You know, I worked in Congress
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 6: for two years under the previous Trump administration. I understand
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 6: the challenges that are there. And we just need to
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 6: figure out how best to try to navigate that.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: Last question. In 2021, in the wake of January 6th,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: a photo of you cleaning up the Capitol Rotunda went viral.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: Have you had a chance to reflect on that now
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: that Donald Trump is heading back to the there will be, um,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: no accountability for him and his role in January 6th and, and, and, uh,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: his attempt to overturn the election and, you know, potentially
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: pardons for the, uh, for the riders.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 6: I mean, I, I reflect on it a lot. Um, I,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 6: and then not a day that goes by that I'm
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 6: at the Capitol where I don't stop in the rotunda
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 6: for at least a couple of minutes. I try to
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 6: just sit there. I mean, I think it's such, I
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 6: think it's the most beautiful room in America. And I
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 6: love seeing the expressions of tourists as they come through
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 6: and they crane their necks to be able to look up.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 6: And that is something that tries to continue to remind
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 6: me why I do this work. But in terms of
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 6: what comes next and how I try to use those reflections,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 6: what January 6th taught me and what that experience, especially
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 6: about that photograph of me cleaning the floor of the
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 6: Capitol taught me is there was a moment there where
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 6: I was cleaning the Capitol and I went to a
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 6: side hallway, was cleaning up there, and I saw this
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 6: plaque on the wall. And I looked at the plaque
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 6: and it said, below this lays a cornerstone laid by
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 6: first president George Washington. And it was just like a
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 6: very powerful moment. I'm standing there, my pants covered in
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 6: soot and dirt and carrying a bag of broken glass
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 6: and broken flags and debris. And I'm seeing that, yes,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 6: George Washington laid the cornerstone of this building. And the
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 6: way I sort of said it to myself that day
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 6: is that I've realized that my job is to be
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 6: a caretaker, to be a caretaker for this democracy. And
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 6: I believe that the Capitol building is a physical manifestation
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 6: of the Constitution. So on that day, it was also
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 6: meant to take care of the Capitol. But I think
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 6: that that sense of caretaker helps me try to understand
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 6: what comes next, to try to understand the challenges that
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 6: we're going to face, but the role that I'm going
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 6: to play. I've been saying this line a lot lately
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 6: where I say, I believe that the opposite of democracy
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 6: is apathy. And I really believe that so deeply right now.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 6: It's so easy to look at the next four years
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 6: and feel like, wow, how did we find ourselves back
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 6: here after everything that we've tried to do, all the
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 6: mobilization that we've done. So I can understand how a
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 6: lot of people are feeling that. I'm sure right now
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 6: a lot of your listeners are feeling that right now.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 6: But I hope that they recognize that this isn't going
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 6: to fix itself. It's absolutely worth fighting for. And the
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 6: worst thing we can do is to disengage, take our
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 6: foot off the gas in that kind of vein. So yes,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 6: I had somebody ask me this the day after Election Day.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 6: She said, I'm so happy for you, but I'm sure
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 6: this isn't what you signed up for. And I looked
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 6: at her. I said, actually, it's exactly what I signed
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 6: up for. I'm not doing this job because I thought
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 6: it was easy. You know, this is something that's taking
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 6: me away from my seven-year-old and a nine-year-old for so
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 6: much of the year. Like I'm missing so much of
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 6: their life. I would not miss their life for anything
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 6: other than something that is of the utmost importance. If
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 6: I didn't believe that me doing this job is my
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 6: best way of trying to be a good dad to
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 6: my kids, then I would not be doing this. So
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 6: like for us, like always remember why we fight, why
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 6: we do this. I call it our North Star. Like
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 6: remember our North Star, what brought us into this. It
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 6: isn't about tribal battles and which party has more power.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 6: It's about the change that we're trying to see. And
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 6: I feel like I learned those lessons on January 6th
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 6: and the days after of what my role is. And
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 6: I've now decided to dedicate the rest of my life
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 6: to trying to address one singular question, which is how
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 6: do we heal this country? Not if we can heal it,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 6: but how do we heal? I still believe it's possible.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 6: So that's what I learned on January 6th. And that's
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 6: certainly point me in the direction of what I'm going
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 6: to do now for the rest of my life.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: Well, Senator-elect Andy Kim, this was the most hopeful conversation
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: I've had since the election. And yours was a rare
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: bright spot in this election. And I'm really, really glad
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: that you're going to be in the U.S. Senate. So
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: thank you for joining the pod and please come back
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: again soon.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 6: Great. Thanks so much, John.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: Take care. That's our show for today. Love it. Tommy
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: and I will be back with a new show on Tuesday.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: Have a great weekend, everyone.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: Bye, everyone.
• 1:13:43
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• 1:14:22
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  Speaker 7: The 2024 election, and unfortunately the post-election period, is going
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 7: to be chock full of drama and nail-biting suspense. You
• 1:15:02
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