Latest / Relish: a Christian podcast / Does Modern Israel Still Have a Biblical Role? (Part 2)

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Does Modern Israel Still Have a Biblical Role? (Part 2) · Relish: a Christian podcast

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  Relish pleasing or zestful flavor a quantity just sufficient to flavor to be
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  pleased or gratified by enjoy we are hoping that what we bring to your table
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  today might add some spice to your life,
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  welcome everyone to another episode of relish my name is alex zerman and this
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  is pastor don patterson hello how are you doing,
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  so far so good so far so good we just came off of a hot 45 minute long episode.
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  I didn't really notice that was that long. Yeah.
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  So this, what you're gonna listen to next, this will be the second part of that discussion.
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  So enjoy, enjoy.
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  Let's see. Another one of the questions I had was.
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  Um, Jesus was Jewish and the first Christians were Jewish.
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  So what actually happened between Jesus and the Jewish leadership?
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  I think we already addressed that in me.
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  Well, yeah, what happened between Jesus and Jewish leadership is he ended up on the cross. Right.
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  So that was sort of a dead issue at that point, they thought.
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  Right. Until resurrection. That's true. Then it wasn't.
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  Then they had to, oh, my goodness, we got to change our story a bit and make
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  sure that everybody thinks he died. Right.
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  What happened then in Acts chapter 2 is, oh, these guys are saying he's alive,
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  and he lived and all these things.
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  The Holy Spirit manifestation.
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  You got it. Okay. We know it. Most of it I got. Manifestation.
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  Yeah. Let's go there. Manifestation. Manifestation. That.
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  And affirmed the fact that there was something going on with this group.
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  And they were attracted. People were attracted to it. 3,000.
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  It's a lot of people. Yeah.
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  And so that started to sweep,
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  through the temple. Temple and the Aristophanes.
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  No. Don't like that. And what's interesting is under all that persecution,
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  and we see it manifest most in Stephen, when Stephen is stoned in chapter 7.
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  They're bound and determined to kill this movement. Oh, yeah.
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  And standing right there was Saul. Yeah.
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  And two chapters later, he becomes Paul. Mm-hmm.
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  See, that's evidence of a work that's God's continuing to do.
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  He's going to continue to work at transforming what wasn't his to his by his redeeming power.
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  And that's why I'm a preacher. Yep.
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  Yep. I agree. And if you're listening to this strictly for whatever kind of,
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  title I've come up with, Don's going to keep bringing it back to scripture,
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  keep bringing it back to this truth.
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  And that's what I really like about it, because we don't want to get lost in
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  those weeds. We want to be able to see this clearly.
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  We want to be able to take something really practical away from this,
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  if you're a practical kind of person, but also deeply understanding what God's
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  role was for the Jews at the time, today, and in our own hearts.
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  And they play a part of the end times. Yeah.
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  And to do. And I, yeah. Mm-hmm.
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  Um when paul asks has god rejected his people why does he then answer by no
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  means oh in romans chapter.
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  Eight i think is that one nine that might be i will assume why not oh boy i
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  know it's right there nine and eleven.
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  And if you want to go to the, if you want to instead go to 11,
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  because you know where that's at, and I'll find the, what I'm talking about.
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  We can talk about the next question. Okay, so. 11, 11. What does Romans 11's
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  olive tree actually mean?
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  And I think we talked a little bit about this. Yeah. But not quite.
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  Okay, so that's that engrafted branch to the root of Jesse that's talked about in Isaiah.
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  It's still in Paul's mind that the root of this faith goes back to that original
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  covenant in Genesis chapter 12 and from this root will be God's people.
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  Paul has changed from Saul. His Saul side would have said, that is Jews alone.
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  And he gets burned, I think it's at Antioch. is it the he has a really bad experience,
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  and finally says ah i'm just going to preach to gentiles i'm done with these jews yeah,
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  he gets stoned right yeah yeah i think it's after that stoning yeah and i'm
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  trying to think if it was at antioch or or uh athens,
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  but anyway he moves away from even going to the synagogue first and in act in
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  the book of acts if you look at at the progression, they almost always went
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  to the synagogue, one of the very first things, and they were at the synagogue every Sabbath,
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  to preach Jesus,
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  but Jesus from an Old Testament perspective,
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  and Paul's had it. Yep.
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  Yep. A bunch of stones will do that to a guy, I guess. They make an impression. Yes.
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  Mm-hmm. Sorry. Good one. Sorry. 11-1 is the other one, by the way.
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  What? 11-1? Yep. Oh, yeah.
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  Did God reject his people? By no means. I'm an Israelite myself to send it,
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  and then he goes through all that. Yeah.
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  So, God did not reject. No. The Israelites. No.
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  Even to this day. Even to this day. Okay. And I think the evidence is there in Revelation.
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  It's still there. So still today, God has chosen people, right? Right.
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  And then when you go to 11 and following, it's like, then we as Christians,
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  we're sort of Greekish. Yeah, yeah.
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  We're ingrafted into that stump, that root of Jesse.
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  And so Paul's vision is that we carry a little bit of that Old Testament along.
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  Yeah. The good parts. Right.
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  Into what we call Christianity today.
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  Right. Yeah.
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  So, does the modern state of Israel have a unique biblical status?
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  Does the modern state of Israel have a unique biblical status?
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  I know that was kind of a hard swing there. Well, I'm still...
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  He still wants to talk about the other one, and that's why you kind of got to cut Don off a little bit.
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  Um i okay i still sense that there is a connection with the modern state of israel okay,
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  is it totally blessed i'm not sure i don't yeah i mean the things it's doing
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  don't look blessed to me some people does it look like it's being a blessing
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  right and some people just named it israel so So that's, we don't,
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  it happens to be the right geography.
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  And so that geographic space being connected with God, and I think we specifically
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  see it in the revelation. Yeah.
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  Those sites are named in the revelation of John.
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  It will play us a definite role in the end days, in times.
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  And maybe what's currently going on politically is setting the stage for end times. Yeah.
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  Can we say that everything that Israel does should just be all right because
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  they are blessed I think we sort of gave that up with Ambrose didn't we I think.
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  Our idea of what Christianity and what's right and wrong has to be for all people
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  and not just a certain few.
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  I think we have the right to say you know guys what you're doing ain't right Okay.
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  I think there's room for that. I mean, yeah. There's got to be enough room for that. Yeah, I think so.
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  And then I'm torn at what we do from there.
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  Because one part of my head says, if we participate in what they're doing, we hasten the end times.
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  God will come just that much, or Jesus will come just that much faster.
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  Mount of Olives will be split in two. Yeah. And we'll get to go home. Yeah.
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  The second part of me says, but God, you need to wait a bit because there's
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  not near enough people know Jesus.
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  I mean, yeah, there can be a
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  lot of very hard and stern planted flags on either side of that, I think.
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  I didn't plant any, did I? I hope not. yeah i i just i i think we well,
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  I think we need to be able to speak into that. Yeah. Because these,
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  yeah, they're people that have wandered the earth for two millennia,
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  and all of a sudden now they're in this geographic spot. Mm-hmm.
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  And they want to say, well, we're God's chosen people above everything else.
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  And I got to say, well, the way you're conducting yourselves are not very chosen.
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  That's fair. I mean, it's also, you know, a lot of the actions are done from
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  a political standpoint. So like from the nation of Israel, they're making choices
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  that's the best for their nation, right?
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  Not necessarily making decisions based on their status as God's chosen people.
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  I don't know if they claim that authority or not. I don't think they do,
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  but I think they're just acting in whatever's in the best interest of Israel.
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  They could get repercussions if they did.
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  Right. That may not be good.
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  Yeah, it's... Okay. I keep watching it and saying, Lord, break through somewhere here.
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  Yeah. This is not good. Right. Can Christians strongly criticize that without being anti-Semitic?
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  Like, am I, are we, or maybe we are technically anti-Semitic?
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  We've been a little rough on them this morning.
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  I still go back to, to Genesis 12. Are you being a blessing?
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  Okay. Are you being a blessing? That's what God chose you to do.
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  He gave a covenant to you to be a blessing.
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  Are you being a blessing? Yeah. And if you're not being a blessing,
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  why are you going against the covenant? Right.
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  And if you're going to get the covenant, well, isn't that against God?
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  So let's get real. That's good. Wake up, folks. Get back to the word. Yeah.
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  Even if you only use the old part of it.
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  As you said, they wouldn't use the new part of it.
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  I think Jesus did a really good job of putting a new face to that covenant.
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  I mean, he gave it all. That's right. His whole life, his whole ministry was
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  to be a blessing to the people around him.
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  And even the guy who came at him as a jailer and one of his own disciples whacked
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  his ear off. Jesus healed him. I mean, that was the heart of Jesus, to be a blessing. Right.
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  And they didn't get it. Yeah. It's not like Jesus was living out of what was already there. Right.
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  He was trying to be a blessing and teaching a people to be a blessing because
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  that was the covenant. Yeah. Was to be a blessing.
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  And I've heard people talk about how Israel in the past, you know,
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  God took them to war, took them to battle, said that this battle was going to
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  happen. I mean, like slaughtering people, right?
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  And when you read that part of the Bible, it's easy to make the mistake of being
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  like, okay, that means it's okay today. But what's different is like that is
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  a description, not a prescription. Right. When Jesus talks in the New Testament,
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  what he is teaching is a prescription.
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  This is how you should live to love your neighbors. Right. Right. So...
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  But, but is the temple going to be rebuilt without bloodshed?
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  I don't see that happening.
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  Do you, I don't see a temple in, in John's revelation. Oh, did I mix up analogies there?
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  No, but you know, in reality, that's what they want to do.
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  You're right. And the Jews want to rebuild the temple. You're right.
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  Right. But I don't see it in the revelation as the revelation depended upon,
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  a temple being built. Yes. Okay.
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  What I mean to say is as far as the end of what I meant to, the end times,
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  the things that need to happen before that happens...
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  Can all of that come about without some bloodshed, without some conquest?
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  No, no. I think there's going to be conquest first. Just read some revelation.
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  There's a lot of bloodshed. Oh, you'll see. You'll see saints.
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  All right. And I think, I think maybe attributing those bloodsheds to the Lord, get us off.
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  It doesn't say that God does all that.
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  And he has all these other creatures doing it.
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  It's going to happen. Yes, it will. It was a bloody mess. Yeah.
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  Just read the Revelation. Just don't read it at night before you go to bed.
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  Or do it. Maybe God will unlock some things in your dreams at night.
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  Yeah. Definitely affect your dreams. Yeah. It's, yeah.
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  Mm-hmm. So to kind of wrap this up, and maybe this wrap up will only take another 15 minutes or so.
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  So for a newer Christian Encountering these claims You know all these different
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  claims And now that we've kind of established You know what,
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  What makes a quote unquote The Jews right you know what who operates Under that
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  title are they actually Chosen when they are you know When they just have a
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  Jewish last name Online writing,
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  What primary sources Best clarify the distinctions Without feeding into this.
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  Well, I would say a negative conspiracy kind of thing. And we talked about it.
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  It's the Bible. I don't trust anything else.
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  Not wholeheartedly. That's for sure. The trouble is we, we can get off base really fast.
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  And may I say it again and again and again, unless we know this well,
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  we're going to have a hard time testing what is false out there. Yeah.
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  You got to know the truth to know what is false. Yeah. And I know we say we're
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  Christians and we believe in the Bible, but have you read it? Yeah.
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  That's a big deal. And if you have read it, have you read it well enough to
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  know book, chapter, and verse when you're called to account?
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  I mean, I'm still learning. Yeah.
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  I can't always do book, chapter, and verse. We found that out with the sales
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  of the goat kind of thing.
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  But I really do want to come close. I really do want to come as close as I possibly can.
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  To being able to go book, chapter, and verse to anything that's being questioned.
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  Right. And I think we're responsible for that. Yeah.
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  Not just to treat it as a reference thing, but an actual something that's going
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  to shape the way you live.
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  I think we've talked, I gave a sermon sometime and someone asked,
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  you know, like you said, to see Jesus, how do you, how can you see Jesus?
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  And I'm like, you have to see him in scripture. How else are you going to know who he is, right?
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  Same thing with my kids. I'm like, some people might tell you they love Jesus
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  and know Jesus, but you talk to them, you might not recognize that Jesus that
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  they claim to know. True.
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  And can you even bring from scripture saying, well, wait a minute,
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  are you sure that's Jesus? Yeah.
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  Because I read this and it says, and if he says that there, why are you saying
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  this here? Yeah. And, uh.
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  Jesus himself says in, in chapter seven to, uh,
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  A group that were doing miracles and getting demons out and healings.
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  He says, I never knew you. Yeah. Get away from me. Mm-hmm.
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  That's a convicting verse. It is a convicting verse. And what I think we don't
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  understand is that's a relational word. Oh, yeah. Know you. Mm-hmm.
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  I know you. It's like, I know you, and.
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  I've come into a personal relationship where I know what to expect of you,
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  you know what to expect of me, and that's part of what we do here.
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  We know what to expect of each other.
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  That's relationship. Do we have that kind of relationship with Jesus Christ
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  that we know what he expects of us?
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  And do we know what we expect of him? If we're not in that personal relationship,
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  that personal space with Jesus, then I think we need to get there and get there
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  guided by his word, truth.
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  And then we can start having conversations that I think are more productive
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  about, oh, well, do we do this or don't we do this?
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  And it begins to guide our life. Mm-hmm.
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  That's the bottom line. That is the bottom line. I don't think anything's more
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  bottom line than having a personal, dynamic relationship with Jesus Christ.
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  Right. That's what we want. And we want wisdom.
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  We want good discernment, knowledge, understanding. That's all going to start
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  with, I think it's the fear of God.
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  Oh, yeah. Beginning of wisdom starts with the fear of God. That's right.
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  And getting to know Jesus in the Bible, from the Bible, getting to know him
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  from his word, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's a big part there. It is.
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  Major. Yeah. There's a lot of wisdom there for a lot of things in your life.
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  If you start there, I think you're going to do very well.
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  Um, just to wrap this up, you were saying expectations a lot.
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  How are Christians supposed to expect the world to go about?
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  I'm looking for a one minute kind of chunk here. Like what kind of expectations
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  do we have from the world?
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  From the world? Yeah. If we're, if we're looking at this thing and,
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  and we're seeing all this stuff happen around us and, you know,
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  we're hearing that, you know, these people hate us. These people don't like
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  us. This is all happening. What are we actually supposed to expect?
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  In this world, you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer.
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  That's good. I've overcome the world.
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  That's the words of Jesus in John. Yeah. John chapter 14. Yeah.
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  Follow Jesus every step of the way. Yes, the world's going to dig at us,
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  and they're going whoop us upside the head. Paul had a few knocks with that. Yeah.
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  But be of good cheer.
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  Jesus says he's overcome the world. Yeah. And to me, that's living back into that first covenant.
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  We need to be a blessing even when we're being cursed. Yeah.
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  And that's what Jesus did. Mm-hmm. To bless. Let's be blessings. That's right.
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  I agree. Yeah, if you want to be a good leader, be the person who returns to
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  joy, to bless others the quickest Amen Yeah That's what we need a lot of Yeah,
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  All right, everyone, if you made it all the way here, good for you.
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  If you've got more questions, if there's things that you don't agree with us about, I can't imagine.
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  But if you do, we seriously want to hear them. I do read the comments.
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  If there's something in there that really sticks out to me, I will bring it
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  up. Or if you're persistent, one of the two.
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  So there's your pathway. I appreciate it. Hit the like button,
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  subscribe, all that kind of stuff. And you get a gold star for making it all the way. Oh, yeah.
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  All right. At least a gold star. Yeah. Hey, will you pray us out,
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  Don? I can do that. All right. Heavenly Father, we thank you for the privilege
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  you've given us to be a part of our listener's life.
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  We pray, Lord, that you would guide and bless these words in ways that honor
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  and glorify you and become a good witness to those around.
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  I pray that this time has been a blessing to our listener.
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  In the precious name of Jesus Christ, amen. Amen. Hey, everyone.
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  Thanks for joining us, and we will see you all next week. Lord willing. Bye.
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