Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Chris Blackwell

Transcript

Chris Blackwell · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, welcome back to the Bob West That's podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: My guest today is truly a llegend. This Blackwellholm Island
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Records has a new autobiography, The Islander. Chris. Great to
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: have you on the podcast. So, first and foremost, where
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: exactly are you right now? I'm in Jamaica, Yes, but
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: you own multiple properties in Jamaica, correct, No, just a couple,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: two or three different properties. The main one is Golden Eye,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: which Ian Fleming owned originally. And what is the status
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: of Golden Eyed today and how is it different from
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: when Ian owned it? Well, when Ian owned it too
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: was just one house. And when he uh pass my
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: mother looked after the house for a bit, waiting for
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: his son to come of age and take the ownership.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: But sadly his father his son committed suicide and so
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: the the house just came on the market and my
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: mother asked me if I would go out and try
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: and buy it. And I was a little short of
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: the cash at the moment at the time, but the
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: person I knew had some cash it was about early
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: because I just paid him some fat royalties. So I
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: told him that he should go and see it because
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: it's a great property and he should have a look
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: and see if he liked it. And he went, but
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: he said it wasn't his kind of thing. He was
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: more street as it were, so he passed on it,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: and so I eventually voted. Now you also got involved
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: in real estate in Miami South? How did that come
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: to pass? That came to pass because I flew down
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: to Miami to watch a new singer that had come
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: from Detroit and she was going to do a I
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: have I have a sort of video done of her,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: and so I went down and I flew into Miami
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: and then I went and stayed at the Fronto Lu Hotel.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: But I don't really like big hotel that. I didn't
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: like it at all. So I said, I want to
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: get out of here, and I rented a car and
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: drove south. And when I drove south, but by bit
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: it became more and more funky and more and more
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: broken up and everything, and I couldn't believe it. Here's
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: this incredible beach, incredible location, and everything was derelict, and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe it. So I wandered around and
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: and saw a couple of different places that I thought
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: i'd love to buy that, and so that's basically what
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: I did. I bought a place called the Marlin. And
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: then in um in Miami at that time was somebody
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: called Barbara Julniki who was very super talented designer, creative lady,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: and she was in Miami and I asked her if
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: if she could help me and design a little um
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: you know, a little sort of hotel, and and she did,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: and it was adorable. It really looked just fantastic, and
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: very quickly it started to get people coming to it
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: a lot. And then I put a studio in it,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: and and off we were really great. So what drove
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: people to the hotel? Did you saved all your friends?
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Did you put the word out or just people drove
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: by into how great it was. I think I think
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: it's sort of a bit of both. You know, I
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: spoke about a lot about it, tell people about it,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: because it was so extraordinary that, you know, you couldn't
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: get a cab to take take take you out there.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: It's very very difficult. It was at a time. It
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: was a time soon after remember when Castro sent a
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: whole lot of um cumans to to Florida or something,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: and there was a country. Remember what happened, but I
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: know it was a kind of chaos and so no,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: but nobody really wanted to go to South Beach, Absolutely
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: not at that time. So you know, this has become
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: a thing of having studios in a hotel. Is that
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: actually marketing? Or does that really work? Having a studio
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: in a hotel? Do you know? It works? It works
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: because you know you've got you can you know in
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: the studio, you can get stressed out in the studio
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: and you really want to sort of take a break
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: and just go and have a nap for a bit,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: and so in that regard it really works. Now you
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: ultimately own multiple properties in South Beach. I ended up
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: earning about eight, eight or nine of them, eight or nine,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: but ultimately you sold them all. That was a motivation
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: to sell them because they had a law in Miami
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: at that time that if there was if there was
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: any stores coming off the eastern coast of Africa, that
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: one should already start and canceled bookings and cancel all
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: kinds of things because that could turn into a huge
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: which hurricane and cause chaos. So uh, that just didn't
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: make any sense to me. I mean, you know, hurricanes
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: don't come every week, they don't even come every month.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: They come now and again. But what would happen is
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: that we would still have to do that. We'd have
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: to let all the staff go, we'd have to cancel
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: the bookings, we have to close the hotel. And I
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: thought that just makes no sense at us. So I left.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: And did you get out at the right time financially? Um?
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I say, okay, okay. It wasn't that I was trying
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: to make a bag of money on it. I was
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: just wanting to get out of it at that time.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: And it was somebody else who was very interested in
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: the latest hotel I did. They were called the Tides,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: and that was the one which really attracted a buyer.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: And and that's what that's what happened. So he bought
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: the Tides and or they on the hotels. And when
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: you own those hotels and presently your own golden eye,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: how hands on or you were you mostly in the
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: design construction phase or when it comes to actually running
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: the hotel, where you just pass that off to someone else.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: The design, design construction phase really is where I spent
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of time because it was great in Jamaica.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: It was great land that was sort of had not
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: been used, and it was a great It was a
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: great opportunity to build something on that land because it
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: was right on the water and it had a kind
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: of lagoon in the middle of it, and everything was
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: really beautiful. So at this point in time, is most
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: of your money tied up in Golden Eye or you
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: pretty diversified, because certainly in your book you talk about financially, uh,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: periods of great success and then other periods were scratching part. Yes, definitely.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Throughout my life has been up and down all the time.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Just similarly, you know, it has been nothing slow and
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: steady and solid. It's been up and downe And so
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: at this late date, how are you doing financially? Um,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: not too bad considering you know what's going on in
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: the world right now. Not too bad. People really like
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: five really like a girl and I and I didn't
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: mention Fireflyer. Is that place really close to a Golden
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: I called five Flyer where nol Coward lived. And that's
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: a beautiful property, which is um, you know, adjacent to
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: where we are, and it's about a thousand on feet
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: up and it's that's really beautiful. But most of the
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: time right now, I'm spending it tonight. So I grew
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: up on the East Coast, and I remember in the
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: sixties Jamaica was a place that people went on a
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: holiday and they bought property there, and it was all
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: beach and vacation orient And then of course in the seventies,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: uh to a great degree, as a result of your work,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: a completely different picture of Jamaica comes across. What is
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Jamaica like today? There's Kingston, but there's a beach. Give
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: us a feel for the country. Well, I think Jamaica
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: is grace at the moment. I think Jamaica has good
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: management now. Really in general, I think it's doing really,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: really quite well. And it's it doesn't sort of markets
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: a huge amount, but it's a it's definitely markets. The
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: the hotels are available, and there are a lot of
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: hotels in Jamaica in different locations. There's so many different
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: parts of Jamaica which are uniquely different. You feel like
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: you're in a another island. Um because you know, some
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: some of the some of the land in Jamaica goes
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: up to seven thousand feet and some m hm. So
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: it's it's very very you know. And then you go
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: into the mountains, you can stop by where the people
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: are growing coffee, you know, and get buy some coffee
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: from them, and you know, it's it's a it's a
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: great great countries. It's full of life. Okay, to what
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: degree do the city and the locals interact with the
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: beaches and the tourist areas, um, well, some I mean
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: some people, some people love to go to the beach,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: go to swim, and some of them, some of them
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: really don't really care too much about it. They prefer
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: to go in the hills, or in the or in
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: the pastures or you know the country part in internal.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: So Jamaica just has so much variety literally that you know,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: you can you can spend a day driving across Jamaica
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: and you see so many different different things different firstly,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: you know, different people, different different sort of towns and cities. Everything.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: It's it's it's very different, and it's very it's very
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I didn't know. It's kind of fun. You know, the
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: people have fun. The people. The people have a strong
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: kind of character, but strong personality, and there's you feel
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: that energy from the people. I certainly do, and I
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: think I think most people do who come and visit. Okay,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: certainly a couple of decades ago, Jamaica had a reputation
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: as being dangerous. Is it dangerous today or only dangerous
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: in certain areas? Well that in that period, which was
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: the seventies the late seventies, there was a lot of
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: political problems, you know, and so anti American or pro
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: American or pro Castrow, you know, there was a lot
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: of that going on at that time, and that's split
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: the country a little bit, and so that was not
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: a good time. And there was there was a lot
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: of problems then. But it's not like that now. It's
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: not like that now. It's much more settled. Okay, So
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: you're growing up in Jamaica. Are you living the life
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: of a coddled rich kid? Are you integrating with the locals?
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: What was your life like? Well, I grew up, I
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: was you know, I was born in London and I
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: arrived in Jamaica when I was about six months old
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: and then came by sea, and I grew up in
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: great luxury. Really the house that I grew up in
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: was you know, a big house and lots of stuff
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: and it was, you know, very luxurious in a way.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: But the problem was that I was sick all the time.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I had very bad asthma, and so really I didn't
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: spend any time with other children, or didn't go to
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: any parties, or didn't go to anything much. Pretty much
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: was just stayed in in in one place. So at
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: what age did you end up going to school in
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: the UK and what's that experience like. Well, I was
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: sent to education in England mainly because my father's mother,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I was a Catholic, and she insisted that my father
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: have me educated as a Catholic. So I went to
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: a Catholic school which was miserable. It was in London,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: just outside London, between London and with Windsor near a river,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: so the weather was just about the worst weather for
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: somebody who had asked me the last thing you need
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: to have is a damn wet ah, you know environment.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: And I was very sick there. And also I didn't
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: get on with them there and they didn't get on
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: with me. Didn't work at all. Well, I was only
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: there really for one one and a half terms. I
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: got fired because I asked if my dog go to
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: heaven and they said, of course, do come here to
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: have and they took me just to leave school and
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: you went back to Jamaica. Did you go back to school?
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: We're done with school. I went back to Jamaica and
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: I was at school for one term at the school
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: in Jamaica. Then I was sent back to England and
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: on this occasion it was two Broadstairs in Kent, which
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: is a much more healthy environment right on the sea,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: and that was much better. I enjoyed that. I enjoyed
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: that that period very much, of course, at Peter's Court
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: and in broad Stairs, Kent. And then from that I
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: was able to get into posh school called Harrow, and
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: again got into that school only because my family, um
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Blackwell family started acrossing Blackwell, which was a big sort
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: of food firm back in my day, and and there
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: are offices were very close to Harrow, so the you
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: know that that family were embedded in in Harrow school
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: as it were. So I went to Harrow and I
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: didn't really do too well there. Um, I didn't really
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: and I didn't really do too there at all. In fact,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: I was sort of not exactly fired, but it was
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: suggested that I might be happier elsewhere. Okay, so you're
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: going to school, what kind of kid you are? Are you?
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Are you a ring leader, you're a loner? Your sports person?
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: What we like? Uh? Probably none of those that are
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: not not? Not Really, I wasn't. I wasn't a big troublemaker.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I didn't think I was. I got into trouble there
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: because I used to go down and by liquor and
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: cigarettes and self to the other kids, which I never
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: touched liquor was cigarettes personally, but I used to do that,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: and I I got caught on that, and it was
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: suggested that I might be happier elsewhere if I moved
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: from there. So, unless they were, I was sixteen, I think.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: And did you have any more schooling after that? Y?
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: M hm. And you come from a prestigious, wealthy family.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: What do they think about their son who is not
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: really achieving in school and doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Well,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: my mother was always hoping. She was very good. She
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: was always hoping that then you know, improve of it,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: and she was really helpful. My father wasn't so on
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: top of it, as it were. He was somewhat of
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: a wild man, and he was he was great, but
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: he was and term he wasn't sort of chasing me
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: up or giving me a hard time or anything. So
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: my mom was the one who was sort of in charge.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: So you come back to Jamaica, you're not going to school,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: what do you do? Trying to find something to do
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: different things. One of the things was I was trying
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: to bring in some scooters. I bought some scooters in
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: England to sell in Jamaica. And I did that for
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: a little bit, and then I did some I got
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: a job working in real estate, so I worked in
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: real estate for a little bit. M hm. And what
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: else did I do? Just just the kind of things
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: you'd expect. It's like an opportunity to do for something
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: and you kind of like it. You just kind of
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: join it and get involved in it, I guess. And
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: m h. That's that's really what what I was, what
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: I was doing, and the thing which really pulled me in,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: of course, it was music because at Harrow. When I
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: was at Harrow, I made friends with somebody who really
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: had a great music collection. He had the music right
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: from the sort of earliest period, New Orleans and music.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: And for a long time I was addicted to two
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: music from New Orleans and and and jazz for sure.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: I just love I just love that. And so when
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I was in Jamaica this time, later on, I started
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: to go to see shows and things. And then, you know,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: one day, as said to I think I'd probably had
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: a couple of drinks, it said to the band after
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: they had finished playing. I said, oh, well, I think
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: you guys were great. I'd love to record you guys,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: you know, And I didn't know how to record anybody.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about it. I just liked their
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: music at all. So a couple of days later, you know,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: a couple of them passed by and said, well, anything
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: happening about this recording? And I said, oh, I'm sorry, yeah,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: well not definitely, definitely going to do it. Do it tomorrow.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: So that's what I did, and I rented the car
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: the next day, van Volkswagen Van. And at that time
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I was teaching water skiing. That was my job that
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I'd made god for myself as a water ski instructor
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: at the Halfmoon Hotel, and which is where the band
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: was playing. So when I drove into town, I went
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: to the studio. I knew the person who owned the studio,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: and we went in and then the band played the
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: first tune and then they all looked up at me,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: and I didn't know what to look. I didn't know
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: what to do. I was and I just had no
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: idea what to do. I couldn't believe that I was
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: actually just sitting there and hearing this music they made.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: And so the leader of the band was blind, and
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: he asked me, he said that would you like us
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: to do it again? And then said yeah, okay, and
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: he started playing again. And then when he started playing again,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I knew that that's what I wanted to do the
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: rest of man, Okay, this entrepreneurial spirit, where did it
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: come from? I don't know. I really didn't know. I
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: don't know. Particularly I my mother's family. They were in
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: the you know, bananas and coconuts, the steets and and
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: and the wrong business too. In fact, I was supposed
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: to inherit the wrong business. Um, but my two uncles
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: quarreled and tell apart, and and so the rom got
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: sold to someone else, and um, I found myself with
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: you know, that was not going to be in the
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: roun business. So that I remember when it happened, I
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: was kind of I wasn't hugely upset because I was
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: already embedded in music. You know, and hanging around with
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: musicians and and you know, and working with people and
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: coming trying to come up with ideas and putting together
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: bands and things like that. Did you ever inherit any
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: money from either side of your family? But by time
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: it came, by time they died, was it all gone?
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: H By the time they died, it was, yes, it
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: was pretty much gone. Pretty much gone. Um, pretty much gone.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: My my my mother was was was fine, you know,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: she had a nice home Jamaica, and and it was
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: but but the Linda family which was the name of
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: the family, which were the run people, it sort of
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: collapsed and in that and that at that time. And
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: so did I say, I was just from from from
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: then on? I mean I was just in vote in music,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: you know, I was an addict. So how much did
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: it cost to make that record? And how successful was it?
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: And how did you sell it? The first record? Yeah,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: the one with the blind pianists? Well, uh, how much
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: does it costs? Oh, less than a thousand dollars lessen yeah,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: lessen five? Everything. It wasn't It wasn't most The main
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: expense was flying up to New York too to get
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the album made and get it mastered, made, and then
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: broke back to Jamaica. And then I get got the
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: manufactured in Jamaica and the pressing plant and so the
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: records at the hotel and did you make your money back?
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Was it profitable or no? Not not profitable. That's I
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: knew that's what I wanted to do. You know, there
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: was no doubt that that's what I wanted to do
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: in my life. It was for sure. What was the
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: next step? Then, Well, the next step was that I'd
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: go and go too shows. When there were shows that
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: would have happen in cinemas. Cinemas would would you know,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: run a kind of a show where somebody would come
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: out and lead the show, and and they would have
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: booked three or four different bands or different individual singers
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: or whatever for the show. And so I went to
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: one of those and there was this guy saying and
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: I thought, my god, this guy has got a really
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: good voice. His voice is very much like Brook Benton.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: At that time, Brook Benton was one of my very
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: favorite artists. And I listened to it and I really
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: liked it. And and when the show was over, I
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: went backstage and I went to see him and they said, oh,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: I'd like, I'd like to record you know, I think
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: you sound really good. You sound like And there was
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: another singer around just who came up and said, well
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: what about me? And then another person came around and
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: said what about and and so I ended up recording
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: those three guys. And the first guy was a guy
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: called Laura Ankin, and I put I put his art
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: was called Boogie in My Bones, and it went to
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: number one in Jamaica. And then I put out the
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: other guy's record and it went to number one a
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: couple of weeks after that, and then released the other
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: record and that went to number one. And the reason
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: these records all went to number one is not because
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: they were masterpieces or anything. It was more because Jamaicans
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: were hearing Jamaican's singing um rather than singing Calypso's or um.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: You know, cultural music. They were they were they were
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: they were sort of hearing music as if it might
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: have been coming from America a bit something like that.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: So that's really how it started and continued to grow.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, all the records I put out really did well.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: I mean it was amazing. Uh And as I say,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: but it's just because of the reason I just gave
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: you because it was, um, Jamaican's listen to Jamaican's there.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: And then when things started to expand was that when
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: England started to want the records from Jamaican. So I
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: used to shipp them to a guy who had the
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: jazz label in England who he released them for me
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: and they sold in England. So then as we were
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: now in nineteen sixty one, um in nineteen six two
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: is when Jamaica became independent, and in view of my complexion,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I thought, well, maybe that was the time to go
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: to so so UM, I went to England and I
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: spoke to all the other DJs and sound system guys
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: and producers and everybody and said, you know, I'm going
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: to England. I'm going to you know, make these This
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: music happened in England, and um, all the people kind
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: of supported me in Jamaica, which was which was great.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Unless they supported me, I mean, they'd send their recordings
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: for me and I put them out and I had
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: the right. The best time in England was just driving
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: around the periphery of London in the areas where that
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Jamaicans lived and visiting different little record shops here and
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: there and I was loving every minute of it. I
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: had just a little Mini Cooper and I was whipping around,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: you know, and it was just that it was just
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: fantastic because it was something that I loved doing, and
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: here it was. It was coming alive and people were,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: you know, buying them. The worst damn thing happened was
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: when one large stock called Broadmeats it was called at
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: that time. They had a berry and somebody some few
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: guys that come in and robbed the the there's the
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: store and it'd taken all the records out of the
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: store except Island. I mean, that was that was That
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: was a low. I learned the level I thought making accompany.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: They would buy all the other records, but don't buy
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: one of mine. They stayed in there, but that that
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget that one. I couldn't believe it. And
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: it is this company Island self supporting, or you're living
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: on money from your parents, or you just scratching by,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: you've got enough money in your pocket to go spend
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: a little. Now, I was just on my own, on
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: my own. I didn't take I wask anny money from
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: my parents. But but my mom did, did you know,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: pay for me too to have an apartment. So I had,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: I had a base in England, but other than that,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: I didn't. Okay, So how did you find really small?
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: As I was saying, lots of different people were producing records.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: There was Cox, you know, there was Duke re Reed.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: They were about ten different people who were making records
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: in Jamaica. About about five of them were Chinese and
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: five of them were Jamaica and another couple. One was
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: an Australian guy and the other was me, And that
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: was pretty much who released the records in the market
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: in Jamaica. So when I had gone to England, they
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: would send me records in England to release. Yeah, And
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: one of the records that was sent to me was
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: called wheel Meat and it was a song by Roy
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: and Milly. It was done by Coxon and it started
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: out with the guy singing the first verse and then
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: the guy saying the second verse, and then the girl
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: saying the third verse, and that was Milly. And it
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: was a very high pitch voice, but it was it
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: was it was great. I mean, you you either loved
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: it or you hated it because it was a sort
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: of high pitch voice. But you know, there was something
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: about it, which was really fun. And so I thought, well,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I've got to try and find it, got to try
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: and find a record form, you know, another record, and
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: h I found what I used to do when I
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: was flashing a bit back to Jamaica now, But when
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: I was in Jamaica and would go to New York.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: I go to New York and I'd go to this
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of record stores on the sixth
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Avenue in New York, and I'd go and buy forty
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: five and I'd bring them back and I would sell
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: them to the sound system because the sound system guys,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: that was the music business in Jamaica. That was the
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: whole life of it. You know. It was really exciting
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: because these guys created these huge speakers, massive speakers, and
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: you could hear the music from to three miles away,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: you know, blasting it was and it was incredible. It
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: was really a trip and that I'd go to all
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: those events, you know, and I was pretty much the
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: only person with my complexion there, but everybody by then
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: it's kind of got used to me and forgured that,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, I was okay as well. And
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: so coxin Um the record that he sent me will meet,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: and I decided to bring it to England because she
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: had such a unique voice. I wrote to her mother
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: and asked if she would send her to England and
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: and and she did and what when she came to England,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: I had already brought also a guitarist Jamaican guitarists called
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Ernest Wrangling to England try and get Ronnie Scott's club.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Um and he was, you know, really excellent musician, still
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: is he still around? And with Milly, I was really
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: looking for a song. So I met with with the
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Ernest Rangelan and with Milly and a couple of other
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: people and played through some of the songs that I
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: used to buy, records that I used to buy to
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: sell to the sound system guys when I was in Jamaica.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: So some of those records I kept, you know, I
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: just had on on tape just because I liked them.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: I wasn't manufacturing any of them, but I just liked them.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: So when I was having this meeting with Ernest Rangeland
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: and Milly in the room and somebody else, we were
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: going through these tapes and one of them came up
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: and it was called My Boy Lollipop. And I thought, wow,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: the sounds great. The sounds just right for Milly, and
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Ernest rang and said, he ever, does that sounds good?
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: So we decided that we were recorded. UM. My plan
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: was initially to produce the record um, and I didn't
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: produce it in the studio because in those days you
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: couldn't go in the studio unless all the musicians could
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: read music. So back in the day, you know, I
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: couldn't read music. Ernest wrangling. Fortunately the guitarists could read music,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: so he he sort of gave the the directions to
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: the English musicians who are playing. So when I recorded
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: it that the first sort of rough recording, I thought, what,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: this sounds great, and so the only thing is that
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: I think it's a bit long. They said, well, what
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: do you mean a bit long? It's only you know,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: two minutes and fifty seconds or something. I said, now
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: that's too long. So people said, well, um, why it's
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: too nice. I just I just think it's too long.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I really like it to be much shorter. So we
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: recorded it much shorter and it was one minutes and
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: fifty eight seconds. And it's definitely the smartest thing that
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: I've done so far, because you know, Milly's voice is
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: a high pitched voice, and high pitched voices tremendous if
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: it's not going on for too long. But if it's
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: going on for too long, you don't really want to
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: hear it again. If it's if it's very short, you
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: want to hear it every now and again all the time.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: And really that's what happened the record. I knew the
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: record when it was finished. I knew that it was
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: going to be a huge hit, and they also knew
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: that it couldn't go on Island Records because Island Records
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: was a tiny little company. And I had learned a
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: lot when I used to go up to New York
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: to all the independent labels, and you know, one one
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: year you come and they had had a huge year.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: In the next year you come and then the record
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: would come out and they were out of business. Because
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: you know, the people who would buy the records and
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: the record stores would only really buy the they'd buy
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: if it was a hit, you know. So if if
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: something came out and it didn't really it didn't really
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: it wasn't really an immediate hits as far as they
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: were concerned, they wouldn't really do anything much for it,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: and and then the company would find themselves out of business.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: So I licensed I licensed it Phillips. Phillips at that
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: time owned what is now PolyGram, what is now Universal whatever.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: So you first and foremost, let's talk about the record.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: The record had an incredible zinc. Yes. Was it something
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: that just was magic in the studio or was it
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: cup multiple times? How did you get that? I mean
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: the record just jumped out of the radio. It was
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: done two times. We did one take and then we
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: did another take and that and that was it. It
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: just it just I guess some luck. We all need
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: some luck. It just clicked, you know, the band clicked,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: which was like a miracle because you know, uh, the
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: you know, they didn't know they never played anything like
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: that before music before, so but it just happened and
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: and uh m hm, it was it. Well, it's something
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: I can't they ever forget because you know, when I
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: just took it out and played it, it was it
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: was something that if you played it, people would say,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: I've got to take that with me. I mean they
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: had to take that with me. It was that which
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: was that kind of level. But it's sold seven thousand records.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: It was number two to the Beatles. Can you imagine? Well,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I just remember the record. My mother had to buy it.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: We had it in the house just because it was
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: so amazing. But you said you knew it as soon
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: as you heard it. There are certain transcending songs I
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: have to ask in your career generally speaking, did you
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: know that level of hit or was that rare and
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: you didn't really know? Well, I know that level of
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: what I think is great, which made me right and
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: maybe wrong, you know, so I don't. I don't. I
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: wouldn't say that if it's if it's something that I feel, Wow,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: this is just you know, well, that's what happens. And
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: if when you're recording, if you if you were recording
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: and it is something that just has worked. You know,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: the rhythm sections working, the vocal is working, the balance
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: is working, everything is working. It's fantastic when that happens.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just it's just if you're Flori. You
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: know what are a couple other records you got that
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: same feeling from, Oh Gosh, Keep on Running. Keep on
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Running was the first record that I did with the
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Spencer Davis Group, which was Steve Winwood and and that
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: that record. The song was written by a Jamaican guy,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: The same Jamaican I was telling you about a little earlier.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Was the first guy I heard singing like Bendon. I
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: brought him over to England to help me deliver the
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: records to the record store. And and he wrote that song.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: And see Win would sing that song and that southing
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: and any others you can remember that had that magical feeling.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Definitely definitely them been song. But I can't remember right now.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Let's go reverse. Are there a couple you got that
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: feeling and they stiffed? Uh? I don't remember that. Maybe
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: that may well be possible because I don't want to
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: remember it. Okay, So let's set the stage. Needless to say,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: the Beatles break in UK and uh sixty two. They
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: don't break in America until sixty four. You're a guy
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: who's tied into the Jamaican sound. Uh, Millie Small's record
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: is sort of a SKA record. What was it like
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: in England? Right there? Well, when the Beatles exploded, that
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: was it? I mean, I mean the Beatles weren't really
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: pretty incredible? What what what they produced? What they did
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: really incredible and and that that was what that drove
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: the whole British music industry, whereas before, you know, it
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: was all about America. Really, um, England didn't really have
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: too much happening that I can remember, which sort of
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: reached people, you know, playing music, listening to music, not
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: not like America because that you know, all that that
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: blues music came from American, out from America, and you know,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: whether it's Chicago, New Orleans or in Atlanta whatever, m
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: hm um. The the music was coming out of America
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: until the Beatles, the blast and then you know, and
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: then sort of ruled ruled everything for a good few years.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: And so do you remember when you first heard the
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Beatles were exposed to the Beatles? Yes, and I remember
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: liking it, definitely like it. Absolutely. There wasn't anything I
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: didn't like about them. But I wasn't a Beatles fan.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: I was more Rolling Stones fan. Okay, so you were
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: more of a blues based fair. So you tour the
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: world with Millie Small. You have this ultimate success, but
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: you also have an insight that this is really not
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: you want to proceed you mean with Millie Oh, I
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: mean in business you were basically sort of like the
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: movie The Idol maker a little bit more. You created
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: this thing. It was incredible. There's a lot of effort.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: It was singles based on what it's all said and done.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: According to your book this year, this is not a
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: direction I want to go in a different direction. Well, yes,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: because because uh, you know, the Beatles had driven something
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: and there were a lot of There are a lot
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: of bands which evolved, a lot of them whether they
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: come from Liverpool or London or over and and a
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: lot of them. Um also went to Um. I'm trying
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: to remember that the city in Germany where did they comberg? Yeah,
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: so I went. I went to Hamburg and I saw
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: a band there and I love that band. Um. I
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: brought them back there. They evolved into to the form
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: names and trying to remember them now that that that
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: their name got changed, and then every time the name
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: got changed, the name was worth Remember we were trying.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: I remember being really frustrated with it. We couldn't get
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: get get it, get it right. Okay, So you make
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: the record and nothing happened. It's a little bit, it's
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: a little bit what what was what was really happening?
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: After Milly was initially the Spencer Davis Group, which evolved
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: into Traffic, Okay, a little bit slower. All of a sudden,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: the Beatles are gigantic in America. It's the British invasion,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: all these bands from Liverpool, etcetera. Are you trying to
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: find some of those bands? Are you saying I'm going
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: in the other direction? How do you view that you're
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: going to compete? Well, in that early stage, I was
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: still they pretty much focused on the Jamaican music coming
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: from Jamaica, so that was my main main thing. So
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: I was doing some other recordings, but the Jamaican one
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: was the one which was sort of steady, which you know,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: everybody in the company pretty much knew what they were
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: doing and what we were after and how we were
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: trying to reach different markets, etcetera. But the I'm trying
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think, I mean the Spencer Davis group,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: which which evolved into Traffic. That that was a major
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: thing for me because when would you know, as you know,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: it's a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant musician, and you know, when
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: when I had first seen him play, I couldn't I
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: couldn't believe that he was, you know, playing keyboards and
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: singing at the same time and then you know he's
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: playing guitar and then you know it was It was incredible.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: So Traffic Traffic was sort of absolutely the main strong
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: band in that period in time. And then once that
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: was happening, then people start to come come towards you
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: a bit, you know, and they would maybe try to
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: get on that label because Steve when was on that
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Lebel you know what I mean. So I think that
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: that that helped attract different talents to come and want
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: to work and work with that. So how did you
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: discover the Spencer David's group and was no one else interested?
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: How did you prevent someone else signing them out from
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: underneath you? Somebody rang me and tell me, you know,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: you should come up to birming and the band's in Birmium.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: I said, well, well, as it happens, I have to
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: come up next Sunday because I have to go with
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: Milly because she's doing a TV show. So I said,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: I'll come up and then after the TV show meet
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: you downstairs and then we'll go and drive around and listen.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: So that's that's what happened. I went there, I met
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: the guy, the guys whose name I should absolutely be
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: able to tell you, but I can't remember his name.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: And he he took me to see one band. I
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: didn't really like the band too much because they had
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: a kind of uniform one and I hated kind of
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: uniform kind of things. So I would I'd like. I
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: like the funkyness, you know. That's why I like the
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: zones of Little More, you know, funking and everything. So
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: anyhow I went. I went to that first and really
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: like and then the guy said, well, I'll take you
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: to another place. I don't know if you like it
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: or not, but there's that. It's a band. It's just
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: like three three four band, but you can come and
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: see them, so is it okay? So I drove around
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: with him, and Milly was with me and the car
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: too because we just come from the TV show. And
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: we went there, started walking up some stairs and you
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: could hear somebody's singing with a great voice. I was
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: walking up the next row of stairs, and I could
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: hear the singing more more clearly in the music. More
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: clearly in the music was something really great, and the
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: singing was sounding really great. It sounded like I've always
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: used the example like Ray Charles on Helium, because you
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: know it was like Gray Charles sort of way of singing,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: but the picture of his voice was different. And then
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: finally when I got upstairs into the room, there was
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: this kid who was sixteen I think he was. He
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: might have been seventeen. I think he was sixteen singing
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: by I mean whaling, really singing, playing the keyboards, playing organ,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: playing piano, playing guitar, everything, And I couldn't I just
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: couldn't believe it. Now, in those days, those days, now
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: we're talking about ninety three or maybe sixty four. Those days,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: the the record companies in England were E. M. I, Decker, Phillips,
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: and a pie Em. I was the biggest, Decker was
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: the second biggest, Phillips the third, pie the fourth, and
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: that was pretty much it. And but none of the
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: heads of the companies would go out go out to
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: listen to bands. I mean they wouldn't. People wouldn't leave
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: their office to go and see a band. None of
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: those people, I mean, any of those people could have
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: signs to Swinsondavor School Win one if they had gone
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: out and no, nobody, nobody could have denied signing him
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: if they hadn't, you know, had they not seen him so, um,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: what happened was that I said to the guys, I'd
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: love to record you guys. They say, I'd love to
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: record you guys, dinog and they said, well when I
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: couldn't record, I said, I don't know, four or five days.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: That's incredible because again, and those days you couldn't get
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: studio organized. You know, it wasn't you know, there was
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: nobody out there finding or follow growing up or catching
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: or promoting or pushing you know, somebody like like the
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Spencer Davis group that by Steve Winwood that time. It
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: was just incredible. So that's what happened. So a few
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: weeks later I went to the studio and um, I
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: did this one song with that written by that same thing.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I told you the first guy when I was in
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: the and the shows in Jamaica back in the day,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: his name was Wilfrid Edwards called him Jackie Edwards. Wilfrid
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: was just and so their first set was keep on
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Running and it was written by Will for whatever the
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Jackie Wilfrid. Now, when you would make a deal with
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: the band, you know, certainly evolved people would make these deals.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: In California, we have the seven year rule. But not
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: in other countries. Would you sign them for a single?
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: Would you tie them up at a low royalty rate?
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: What was the business side like you signed them for?
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: I didn't know, like two or three albums something like that.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: I can't remember now because that all changed as as
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: everything got big up and got got wider and got more,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: you know, more most powerful. In general, it's it changed
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: a bit, It all changed, keep on running, certainly legendary track,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: but when it comes to traffic. The two iconic songs
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: are I'm a Man and give Me Some Loving? I mean,
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: give Me Some Loving. Sounds as fresh today as it
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: did yesterday. Can you tell us a story on that?
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: I can't remember who wrote the song, but I do
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: remember recording it, and I do remember thinking it's huge.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: And which one was that? Give Me something? Give Me
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: some Loving? And I'm a Man. Yeah, I'm a man.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Who wrote I'm a Man? I have to look it up.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: I can't remember. I'm a Man was written by uh
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: Winwood and Jimmy Miller. Okay, which which wind with Steve
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Winwood or muf WinWin Yeah, Steve Winwood, Steve Winwood. Oh
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: that's right, Well, Jimmy Miller was somebody I found in
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: in New York and he was he was a producer
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: in New York, and I brought him over to England
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: and and he he did great work in England, firstly
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: with Traffic and then with the Running Stones. Okay, so
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: what was his magic? You know? Also he died way
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: before his time, but the records, forget the ones with Traffic,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: the ones he cut in that middle period with Stones
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: were just iconic. What did he bring to the studio?
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: He was very talented. It was very talented. He had
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: one problem, you know, which is one of those problems
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: which damaged so many people in music and things. But
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: he had a great taste in music and a great
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: energy and an ability to sort of just be a
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: leader as it were. You know, he'd be really like
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: sort of leading the leading the song as if he's
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: as if as if he was a conductor kind of thing.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: And okay, you know that Steve is bigger than the
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: rest of the group. How does it evolve in the Traffic?
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Because he Steve wanted to I didn't want to really
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: continue working exactly with the uh Spencer David's group. Um,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: and I think he was more into well, I don't
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: think I know he was more interested in working with
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: Dave Mason, Jim Capoldi and Chris Wood, who are pals
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: of his, who you know, he just really got on
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: well with, whereas before, remember he was much younger than
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: and the others. He was very young, so he was
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: sort of he was wanting to sort of make a jump.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: I think it was sort of jumping up to a
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: another level. I would say, Okay, So ultimately Traffic makes
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: two albums, there's turmoil, Dave Mason is in the group,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: not in the group. First record as iconic songs, generally
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: they're covered, they're not really hits for Traffic at that time.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Second album unbelievable. Then the band says it's going to
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: break up. So do you remember whin Would ultimately going
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: to play with Blind Faith and your part in that, Yes, yes,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: I remember that. I'll tell you what I tell you.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: My reading of what happened is Chris Would, who everybody
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: loved he was at sax Player, but he really was
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: kind of I could get very out of it, and
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: I think probably what really happened one day it was
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: just too much and he didn't never turned out for
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: the show in New York Bill Graham put it on.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: I can't remember the place I should remember when would
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: barely even played himself on it. He was so angry
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: and it seemed that, you know, there their relationship or
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: music relationship I think, drifted away a lot. And also
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what else it might have been. That's
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: the only thing I can think of, because Jim Capoli
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: was very important in Traffic because he wrote, he wrote ms,
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: the lyrics and and it was just Woody, you know, Chris,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Chris wood was it was was a bit was a
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: bit faking, you know. So you had windward side, you know,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: you have to give permission for him to be in
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Blind Faith? What did you think then? And did you
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: get a piece? How did you get compensated? Well? Blind
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: Faith was a joint venture with Stigwood. That's that's that's
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: that's how that happened. Um, because the it was Eric
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: and Ginger. Yeah, not to be difficult, Okay. So you
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: have this huge success with Traffic islands on the map.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: What comes over the transom next? Well, Free, I would say,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: is one of them. You know the band folk called Free?
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: Of course I do. And I know Paul Rodgers who
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: can still saying like he used to. So you hear Paul.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: You know, how did you find Paul Rogers? Somebody told
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: me one day he said, you know there's a band.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: There's a band playing at the at the Wardo and so,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: and he said that they're really young band. He said,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: but you should go see them. They're really good. So
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: I went to see them, and I couldn't believe it.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: They were. They were very young. Was one of them
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: was tour and the rest of them were about, you know,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: we're tiny, and they were very strong. The band was
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: very strong. And I went backstage after they finished and
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: I said, listen to you. Guys are really great. I
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: really think you're great. I'd love you to come and
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: come to my office tomorrow and let's meet and see
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: if we can work out something. So they said okay.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: So the next morning I went there early and there
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: was a guy who was working with me, a brilliant,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: brilliant guy called Guy Stevens. Was a real music fanatic,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: American black music particular, but really talented really in many
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: ways as a writer, as a designer, everything, and he
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: was like a sort of my number number two guys
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: who you know, would help me. And I saw him
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: in the morning. And what I forgot, I told you
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: was that when I saw them the night before, I said,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: I said, I said to them, and I said, the
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: only thing that I don't really like is that I
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: don't really not too keen on the name free. So
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: and then I left that night. But the next next
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: morning I met guys Stevens and I said, listen, I'm
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: meeting these kids. They're incredible. I heard them played last night.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: They were really incredible. I said, but I don't really
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: like the name free. Because you put free, people are
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: going to think it's a free freaking show, and so
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: they're coming and I don't really like that name. So
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: he said, well, I've got a name. I got a
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: going the name for you. So it's okay. Well that's great.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: So then the band come in a little later, four
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: of them, led by Andy Fraser, who's just fifteen. He's
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: the leader of the band. And they come in. We
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: sit down and chatting a bit, and and then we
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: we guy Guy Stevens comes in the office to say hello,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: and I say, this is a guy Sevens says hello,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: said and I just wanted him to come up with
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: to to recommend another name because I don't. I'm not
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: really keen on the name free because people will think
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: it's a free show or something and want to come in.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: And so they laughed at such a guy, stevemens So
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: then so the guys Semens was there and and Andy
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: Phrases looks at guys sevens and says, so, what name
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: is that you have planned for us? And guys Stephen
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: said the heavy metal kids. So Andy Fraser looks back
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: at me and he says, if you want to sign us,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: our name is free. Little fucker. You know, he was
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: in control from that moment, and he was just brilliant.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: He was the leader of the band, and they were fantastic,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: really fantastic. Really sadly, you know, there's a couple of
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: them gone, really sadly. Paul Rockers teams to this day
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: that Paul Kossoff is the best guitars he ever worked with.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: And he certainly we worked with Brian May and Jimmy
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: Page and of course uh Kasoff ultimately died on a
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: plane ride to do gigs in the UK from the US.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: How good was Paul kas Off? What do you think
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: of fantastic? He was absolutely fantastic, But he had an addiction,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: you know, and I mean, and he was in shocking shape.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: I had. I had a situation with him once. Once
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: I was doing a record with Jim Capaldi and muscle
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: shows and somehow I had asked Kossof to come down
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: and and so Kossoff was in the studio, Jim Coppolis
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: in the studio, and then you know, we were wrapping up.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: It was the end of the time, and I was
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: I was going back to Los Angeles and Paul Kassof
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: was going to come back with me to the Los
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: Angeles and Jim copor Who's going to go to England?
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: So muscle shows, you know, as I don't know if
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: it's still is I'm sure it is. You know, you
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: couldn't get a drink, you couldn't get anything. Then there's nothing.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: I mean. I I asked the guy who ran and
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Johnson who ran muscle shows, and said, what do
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: you what do you do here? And he said, and
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: what do you do in this time? And he said wow.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: Now and again we go to the airport and watch
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: him rent the corp and and he was great. But
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: when when we when we left to go to drive
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: to the airport to fly to l A. We stopped
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: in this little cafe and coss off and ordered this
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: food food at the food mashed potatoes and beef and
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. And then he kind of collapsed in
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: the middle of it and his face fell down and
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: splashed of the food. And there was a huge it
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: was a huge guy just walked up, finished his dinner
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: and walked up. He was walking by a huge guy.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's scared than a guy. And and and
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: he looked at Paul Kass often he said. He didn't
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: even say anything. He was just laughed and course off
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: terms of why don't you just fuck off? I could
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: believe it. I could believe it. I thought I thought
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: we were gonna be dead and buried right then and
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: there m h. And then we went on too and
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: stayed in the light for a bit. Okay, you know
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: there's any the anthology on A and M called More
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: Gold just unreal, I mean, an unheralded band. There's so
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: much stuff on there that was not successful commercially. But
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: the third album, Fire and Water has all right now,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: you know, I kind of kit from the fall of
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: Summer in fall of nineteen seventy with an incredible riff
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: that becomes their one big successful track in American worldwide?
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Did you know that was going to be that big?
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: But I'll tell you that youruth. I projuced it record,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: but I honestly didn't feel it was anything like as
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: good as it could have been. I don't know why,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: because because it's been very successful, very very successful. Mhm.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: But I I thought I thought it could have been better.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: What what? What what I'd done? Because I I recorded
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: it and the thing which I don't know, I just
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: I just I just thought it could have been better.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: I didn't know why. Okay, sometimes you're producing, sometimes you're not.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: How do you decide to produce an act? Well, if
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: I feel I can contribute, if not, And okay, let's
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: use a couple of your production examples like We've all
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: right now and the first B fifty two albums for album,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: what do you think you could contribute? There? Nothing? Nothing,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: because they had it all down. They were fantastic. They
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: all arrived in Nassa, Bahamas, and the Nasso, Bahamas they
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: would charge the government would charge fortune for bringing in
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: equipment and you know, usually you had to sort of
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: pay to the government fifty six dollars to you, you know,
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: which they'd hold onto until all the instruments was shipped
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: back out of massal. In their case, it was it
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: was like four hundred dollars that they came. It was
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: all it was all toy to toy instruments. It was
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: unbelievable and it really was. And they went in the
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: studio and it was all toy instruments. And I don't know,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: I loved I enjoyed so much that I wish I
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: could tell you that, you know, I didn't had contributed
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: the tool to any production. I didn't. They did themselves completely.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: But I enjoyed so much. I liked them so much.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: But they were they were they were they were just
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: they were special, they really were. So you end up
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: making deals with companies and ended up turning into Crystalis
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: and e g. You know, when Jeff wrote, how does
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: Jeff Rode told? How do roxy music? How do they
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: come to you? Gestel came to me with the band
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: I had, which was I think it was called Spooky
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: Tooth at that time. And when whenever a band would
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: go touring and come back to the office, you know, asson,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: did you see anything here, anything, etcetera. Etcetera. And one
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: of the guys you should remember his name because he
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: was the needs of the band. Um you probably have
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: it right there. Um. Uh he was, he was the leader.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: Then well you know in the band, but I wouldn't Gary,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: he he was the one. Uh. And I said, or
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: did you see anybody? And Gary said, and he sort
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: of kind of giggled and laughed shyly. He said, well,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: there was this act I saw who I thought was
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: really kind of funny, stood on one leg playing the flute,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: and I said, I love it, I love it. I
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: must find so I went off to it and I rang,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: and I found out who who was sort of identified
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: with him, and that was Terry Ellis and Chris Wright,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: both of whom were still in college. And so it
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: was Terry Ellis I spoke to and I said, I
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: love to sign these guys, and so he did. And
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: then the deal I made with him was because it
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: wasn't really my kind of music. I just love the
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: idea of it. The record did very well, the first record,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: and then thereafter I passed him on Christmas? And what
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: about the guys with the e G. Roxy Music? Were
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: Roxy music? Roxy music? Rocky music? Really great did very
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: well in England, very well in England. I think at
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: that at the time that rocky music was all important,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: was the time that I was starting getting involved with
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: Bob Money. Okay, so Catch Stephens, how did you get
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: involved with Catch Stephens? Because somebody was chasing me up
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: all the time that I should see him and meet
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: with him, and I was not really that interested because
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: I had seen him on to do a show on television,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: which I thought was weird because his first I don't
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: know if you know, his first record was I Love
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: my Dog More Than I Love You or my Cat
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: bother nine one or the other kind of which I
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: had seen him on television, or a dressed in clothes
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: which would be like from from you know, the him
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: alayask and of things kind of clothes and he was
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: singing something which that that's right. The song he was
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: singing was I'm going to get me a gun, That's right,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: I remember, that was it. I thought, it makes no
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: sense that he's singing a song calling and he get
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: me a gun and he's dressed and his clothes. That
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: didn't make any sense. So it wasn't that I was
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: also chasing after him. It's just that the TV said
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: it come on, and I saw that, and I didn't,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: you know, I just I didn't think. I didn't think
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: much about it. But later somebody rang me and continued
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: to ring me and continued to ring me, and eventually
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: I said, okay, well, then send him to come come by.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: And eventually he came by, and he came with his guitar,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: took off his guitar and started to play a song
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: and it was good. He played it on the song
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: and it was good, and then he played father and Son.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: And when he played that song, I stopped him then
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: and then said, that's fantastic, and definitely I wanted to
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: talk to you about things, doing something when you come
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: come on island instead. Well, I can't come on island
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: because I'm on Ami. I'm on Decca. I said, yeah,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: but Decca, your last records have been sold on Becca
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: and you know, and you should try Ireland. So he said, well,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: how can I get off Decca? And I said, well,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: what did your last record do? The last record had
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: been sold, So I said to him, who is your
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: a m R. Man? He said that they grow I said, oh,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: the crow, the clothes I know the crow he's he's
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: actually the person who passed on the Beatles and he said, yeah,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: that's And I said, well, why don't you call him
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: and say, you've got this record that you want to do,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: which you're passionate about. You're going to need that, You're
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: gonna need it's going to be need to be a
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: good budget because I want to do it with the
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: London London Philharmonic Orchestra and Chorus. And I said, I
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: think it might give you a release. So he loved.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: So that was that, and in fact that's what he did.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: He went off and said, I want to do this recording.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: This is this is it. This is the only thing
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: I want to do. I really want to do this,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: and h Philharmonic Orchestra and Chorus and he passed. And
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: then I started, so what did you think when he
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: said he was going to stop making records having had
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: his religious conversion. That was the day that that um
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: Money died. Can you imagine, Well it was coming to
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: that because he was knock up. He wasn't a happy
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: guy um during that latter part and then he was.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: He wasn't he just wasn't happy. He's he's an incredible person.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: Wonderful person, but he was not. He was not a
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: happy guy in that period. And I think from what
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: I had what Anderson he he went out swimming in
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: in the in the sea and them in Los Angeles,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: and then and she became very rough and he got
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: very scared and promise, ah, promises, God, you would you know,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: changed to his religion. If you say that's that's pretty
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: much I might not have got it exactly right. Pretty
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: much what always told me. Let's talk about distribution in America.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: Some of these albums came out on Warner, some came
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: out on A and M. How did you decide and
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: why didn't you? Or was it a matter of making
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: an exclusive and shifting labels? What was going on there?
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: I didn't really sort of have a label in in
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: America at a time. At the time I did have one,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: but before that I didn't have one, and so I
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: wanted to put the record with whoever I thought would
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: do a good job. So, for example, Cat Seamans went
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: to them and warners, do you decide Bob Marley is
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: going to be the next big thing? Or you say, well,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: this is another guy I can work with. It happened
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: by chance again where somebody rang me and said could
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: you do me a favor? I said, what is it? Said?
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: Could you could you meet with Bob Marley and the
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: Whalers because they're sound stranded in England and they don't
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: have their airfare back to Jamaica because the manager they
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: had had given them there yeah budget to get back
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: to Jamaica. So I said, okay. I said okay because
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: three days before Jimmy Cliff, who I've been working with
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: for ages, and it was all important because you know,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: I got into to go and do the film harder
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: they come, because I felt that could bring the you know,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: the Jamaican music scene, m hope open to the world
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: more so. And he did that and he acted in that,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: and he did really really good in that, but he
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: didn't make any money on it because the film, you know,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: the film came out some time later. So when he
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: had been sort of I had told him previously that
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: you know that that I've got to re read tell
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: you this because what what had happened with Jimmy Cliff
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: was that E M I wanted to sign him and
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: then at the same time as when Perry Hinson wanted
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: to make the film and I suggested that he should
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: really do the film. Don't sign am I, because do
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: the film and you'll still make money with with me.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: So he did the film. But the film came on
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: and off and on and off and on and off,
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: and it took a very long time and he didn't
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: make any money. When when the year old came by,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: and he hadn't made any money, and he was absolutely
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: within his right to say, well, now I'm going to
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: go to e m I because you told me I wouldn't.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: I didn't. And so when he did say that, I
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: was I was upset. But he was within his rights
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: completely and that was that, and I was very upset.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: And then the next day is when I get this
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: call from the person asking if I would meet with
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: Bob Marley and and funny way that and he's a
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: toash because they all stranded in London, and I said yes,
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: and so they came by. He came to see me,
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: and they walked in like kings. You know, they didn't
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: look like they were busted or anything. They were strong,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: definitely strong. And I chatted to them for a bit
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: and I asked them what their plans are and one
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: of them said that I think. Bunny said that way
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: wanted to get on American black radio, and I said,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: I didn't think you have a hope of getting on
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: American black radio. So and it just came out of
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: my mouth way too fast, and it should have done.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: I guess they were very upset that said that, you know,
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: Pizza and Bunny, and then Bob piped up and said, Bob, what,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: but what do you think? And then said, I think
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: I think I think you should we'll have a black
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: rock act, position yourself as a kind of black rock
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: act rather than keep doing just to making music. So
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: there was a mix there. Bob saw it and agreed it,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: and the other two didn't agree, and the other two
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: sort of then split and Bob stayed on, but they
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: all they all stayed on as friends and everything. But
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: that's that's really how that happens. Okay, catch a Fire
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: is the first album. What do you do to make
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: it sound more rock rock radio friendly? I got a
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: guitarists from from Corwayne Perkins from muscle shows. I've been
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: working with him in muscle shows, brilliant and I just
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: wanted they wanted that. I wanted that kind of feel.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: And there was another keyboard player. Uh who also was
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: you know a musician not not not not just reggae
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: musician and he he was on it. So Bob Marley
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: makes multiple albums, all too great reviews. But it's a
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: very very slow build. What was it like from the inside? Uh,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: solid is all I can say. You know. I wasn't.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: I wasn't. It wasn't in a rush. I just felt
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: it was something that could could really grow because it
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: was growing, you know, it was just it didn't it
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: didn't explode, It just grew. It's still growing. And to
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: what degreed you believe the live album from the Lyceum
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: put him over the top, which is my perspective, but
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: you're inside the building, so to speak. Yes, well that
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: was a key thing again one of those things that
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: happened by chance, because he was doing a gig about
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: a month before that show in l A at the Roxy.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: And when I was watching it and it was it
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: was it was quite something because I was it was
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: so important, you know, I called it for what I
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: knew to be there and everything, how important it was.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: And then and then when Bob and then came out
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: to play, they didn't play, you know, he didn't he
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: had his back to the audience was like rehearsing, and
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: that fo sake, it started when he's going to get
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: started and everything. And eventually when he did turn around
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: and start, the audience sort of stood up and things
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: like that. It's it's that it was very scary to
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: me because it was such an important thing, and I
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: was really worried that it wasn't going to work. But
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: they'd say when it when it turned around and started,
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: it worked. And we're talking about the Lyceum now, the Lyceum.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: I called London that that same evening because that same evening,
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: in the in the back of the theater, theater, back
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: back of the club, in one corner, a lot of
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: girls were all singing, no woman, no crying, and I thought, wow,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: we must record that, must record them when they play
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: in London. So I contacted the Stones and booked the
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: Rolling Stones, and Rolling Stones said the mobile studio, and
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: that's what happened. We wrote. Okay, you know, hard to
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: discern the truth, but I remember when Bob got cancer,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: the word was that he amputated his foot. He would
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: have survived, but he wouldn't let them. What's the true story.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: That's the true story. There's no way he would he
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: would have his toe amputated. Why because he loved sucking
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: as much as he loved music. And how did he
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: handle the inevitable end. He he handled it very obviously.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: It was all it was all very sad because he was,
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: you know, there was nothing good shape. I went to
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: see him a couple of times when he was in Germany.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: H he was, it was something good shape, you know.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: Did he he ever expressed regret that he didn't have
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: his toe ampudated? No? No, m okay. So, uh, how
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: did you decide to build a studio a campus point?
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: I knew I didn't want to be recording in Jamaica,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: there was I don't know, I don't know. I don't
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: know why I started the studio then in Nassa. I
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: mean I know a reason why, and that was because
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: you know, when you when you there's studios in a
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: city that tend to be a lot of people come
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: and hang around, and you get too many people hanging
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: around and that can be really a nightmare. In Nassa,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: there was nobody, so there was nobody to kind of
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: interfere and come in and come out. And I got
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: this tune and I got that, and I like this
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: more and that and stuff like that. I wanted. I
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: wanted somewhere which was just away from anywhere, and and
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: it worked. It worked. We had some great recordings there.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: How did Fly and Robbie get involved. I brought them in.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: I brought them in, absolutely. I brought them in to
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: work with Grace because I wanted to you know, Grace
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: Jones's first record so quite well, second record, so half
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: of that, third record, so half of that. So I
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: thought we should should I should change producers and and
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: decided to make myself a producer. So that's that's that's
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: what I did. Really, I I wanted to bring the
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: Jamaican Jamaican rhythm section and Jamaican that musicians and bring
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: in from Europe a musician who played an instrument called
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: profits At the time, it was a new instrument and
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: he had relieved made one record which had been a
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: huge hit throughout Europe. So I got hold of him,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: got him to come and they also I got the
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: guitarists who played on Merry and Faithful record, which is
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: a beautiful record if you don't know it, about the
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: Broken English record. Yes, the phenomenal record. So I brought
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: him down and it was it was a risk because
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: you know Jamaican musicians that they can be tough, you know.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: And so they arrived at the studio and he has
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: Wally Badaroux who is from West Africa, very effeat um
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: pitch black guy, very very classy, and then there was
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: Barry Reynolds and you know, looked at first it could
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: be a little bit of a problem because they weren't
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: kind of getting on at first. And then and then
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: I I turned up and I think I managed to
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: pull them together. And what I did was take this
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: large picture which Jean Paul Good, Grace's boyfriend, baby father,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: et cetera, had made this record, I'm sorry, made this
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: art and it was it was a group of great
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: photograph of Grace dressed like a sort of g I
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: sitting down like a sort of gr really tough thing,
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: and I had didn't blow it up very big and
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: in the studio and I told I told the band,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: I said, the record we're going to be doing, it's
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: got to look like this picture. So um so everybody thought,
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: I guess it was a bit bit nuts, but that's
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: what we did. And in the first day it looked
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: as if it wasn't gonna work, because, you know, they
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: Wally Bad and the Jamaicans were really hitting it off.
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: And then the second day, after Wally Barou had played
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: something they couldn't believe, you know, how talented he was.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: They hadn't experienced profit equipment before, so they were they
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: were certainly behind it. And and from then on it
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: was just it was it could not have been, that
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: could not have been better. We recorded, We just kept recording,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: recording three albums pretty much. Okay, what about Robert Palmer?
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: Ultimately did his cocaine use kill him? I think it
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: damaged him, Yes, yes, yes, and it's really sad he Honestly,
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: he's one of the best of all. I learned a
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: huge amount from him. I learned anything that I had
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: known and learned was from him about African music. So
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: it was really through him that I signed Kizzania day first,
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: and then Sealef Guitar and angel Ki Show and all
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: the different I got totally into the African world. But
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: he he knew the music real he was so he
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: was so smart, so smart that he had a rotten
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: manager guy who was a rotten guy. H it goes,
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: this goes on there, probably because the person still around,
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: but it was a terrible terrible guy. Terrible terrible guy,
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: and you know, encouraged Robert to do what he should
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: not be doing and didn't do anything about really keep
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: him under control or getting him under control any any
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it could have been done if the person
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: that really cared enough for they didn't care. And it
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: was very sad. I mean, I love Robert prom he
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, he felt like a brother
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: to me. I learned. I learned a lot from him,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: I really did. And how do you feel when he
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: had left the label? I was upset, he was upset.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: He didn't he didn't he didn't want to his manage
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: and moved in there. Okay, so you have this great
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: success with you two, which is on distributed on Warner,
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: and then you don't have enough money to pay them
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: the royalties ultimately given percentage of the company. Go a
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: little deeper into what happened there. Well, one evening I
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: went back to my apartment in New York and I've
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: stitch on the radio and I heard the most incredible
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: drumming by by a drama musician. It was. It was
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: a song, but the drum pattern was just incredible and
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: I just couldn't leave it. I've never heard anything so good.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: So I tracked down where it came from, and I've
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: on that it came from Washington, d C. So I thought, well,
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: I'd go down and check it out. So I went
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: down and I checked checked it out. And there was
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: a whole scene coming out of Washington, d C. At
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: that time. But it was very tough. I mean it was,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: you know, it was very dangerous at that time. And
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: I I heard this one band, I thought they were great,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: and then I saw another band. I thought they were great,
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: and I thought, you know something, maybe what what we
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: should do is what we did when the hard did
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: they come to do a film which can project what
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: story is all about. And so that's what I did.
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: I decided to do and I decided to do it
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: with a with a partner, a man, a good friend
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: of mine called Jeremy Thomas, was a really excellent filmmaker,
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: and he said he'd helped on it, but he was
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: waiting for a film that he had been prepared for,
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: which was called The Last Emperor, and he was waiting
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: until they could start shooting on that. So he said,
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: I might have to leave sometimes. So anyhow we got
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: started and then boom, the last temper suddenly got the
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: girl ahead to get financed and get done, and he left.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: And I know nothing about making movies, and so you know,
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: I put some more money in when things weren't doing
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: too good they are et cetera. And ultimately it's you know,
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: the film wasn't really much good and so the music
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: didn't get any attention, didn't happen, and that was that,
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: and that's what that's what ultimately caused me to so
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: so iland and do that to the arrangement I did
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: with them, you too, first, you know, So I mean
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: nobody got hurt. Okay, in retrospect, nobody got hurt. What
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: happens when you tell Paul McGinnis, I don't have the
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: money to pay you. All I knowed there was no
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: there was no bad vibes. It was you know, it
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: was something which was wrong and could be fixed. And
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: so it got fixed. You know. I gave them a
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: piece of the company and everything. Okay, So that was
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: part of the deal. You said, listen, I can't afford
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: to pay you, and I'll give you part of the company.
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: It wasn't like you were negotiating back and forth. He said,
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: I'd I'd like a piece of the company. No, So
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: how did you ultimately decide to sell? I think I
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: think because I really screwed that whole thing up. You know,
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: the It was a bit of bad luck. But I've
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: had a lot of good luck, but it was a
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: bit of bad luck. Thing of the the last temper
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: suddenly being available where it was some time before it was,
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: they needs to raise all the finance to get it started.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: And because if Jeremy had been around, um, I'm sure
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: one could have done something from that film and the
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: music from the d C at the period in that
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: period that had some wicked music, really really great music,
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: could have done something. So ultimately you go to work
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: for PolyGram the purchaser for ten years, then you go
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: in depending and then you're done. Do you feel that
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: the whole time you were involved in the music business
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: was a moment in time or you could replicate it today?
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: Do you miss it? I think I miss it because
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: of other things that I've really gotten into. Um, because
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: if it was going to stay active in the music business,
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: you've got to stay active in the music business. I mean,
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: you can't how fast it and you've got to stay
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: with it and follow up with it and everything. Otherwise
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: you let people down and I don't want to do that.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: So no, that was that was That was pretty much.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean, I'm doing what I'm doing now,
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: which I love doing. You know, they and the property
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: we have in Jamaica. You know, it's it's it's great.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: It's really great. Means a lot of people, Yeah, learned
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: a lot. It's great. I love it. And to what
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: degreed do you still keep up on music and listen
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: to music. I don't sort of chase it all the time,
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: but if somebody, if someone is says sends something to
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: me or something, I'm immediately going to listen to it.
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: Um whether I'll feel it or not feel it, you
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. There wasn't an incredible record made
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: in Jamaica last year, which is really one of the
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: best records I've ever heard come out of Jamaica. I
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it, but it was really
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: really great. This course sets it up and if you
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: had been involved, would it have been much more commercially
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: success us all, Well, yes, I think so. But but
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: I would have had to have been involved in it
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: from the beginning of it rather than by the end
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: of it, because by the end of it, when it's
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: ready to be released and come out, it has all
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: the people around it and everybody's in place, and the
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: managers here and and the publishers there and they do
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, Okay, So if you
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: look back on your career and it's astounding, one of
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: the most legendary, if not the most legendary independent record
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: label at the time when music drove the culture. Is
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: it swy generous you were just one guy doing it?
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: Or can we take lessons from that? Can you give
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: any lessons to the younger generation? Well, I think that's it.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: You know, if you find something that you really love doing,
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the luckiest thing in the world, and
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: and one works on it and you have your ups
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: and downs and things like that, but um, you know,
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's so special you know when you
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: when when you're you see somebody performing and you know
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: where they've started and how they've come from and how
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: they've evolved. I Mean, the person I'm so proud of
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: is Angelie Kisa I don't know if you know, No,
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: sure you do, right. Well, she's fantastic. You know, I
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: signed on with her very early. I I didn't I
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: didn't tell her what to do directly what to do,
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: but you know, I was very supported to all the
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: way through and just slowly, in short ashes, just developed herself.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: And I feel proud of that. And I love that,
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: you know, and and and I love music. I just do. Okay, Chris,
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for taking the
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: time I'm telling your story, giving us this insight from
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: Golden Eyed. Thanks so much. Thank you. Until next time.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: This is Bob left sets H