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Teaching the kids, with Anne Quaid · Subplots of Education, Etc

• riverside subplots 6 129030199's studio: Okay, this is Jason Major. This is Subplots of Education, et cetera. I have one of my favorite teachers of all time here. Thank you. Ann Quaid. Hi, Ann. Thank you. Hello, Jason. I'm really, really honored to be here. Thank you. I love what you're doing here. Thank you. And I'm so glad to talk to you. We talk about this all the time. So we just click the record button. Let's just talk about what we were just talking about. So let's go right into it. Okay. I think right now we have to return to tier one instruction, meaning the masses. Because all the intervention programs, tech, I've talked about tech many times before, they don't really work. So what were you just saying to me right before I hit record about the tier one instruction, setting your things up? I one of the first things we kind of talked about and and what I wanted to talk about was not that it doesn't matter, not that it doesn't matter what you use, but forget about what you use for a second. Like put that on the shelf. You have to set up your room to address every kid. Every kid. And I know it's hard because there are thirty plus kids if you know at any given time. less than that if you're lucky, but let's just assume you're it just depends on the year. If you're in a neighborhood school, it depends on the year. So some years you may have thirty, some of you have thirty-two, some years you may have twenty-three. Yeah. You have to set it up. In my in my opinion, it took me I mean, God, if I could go back and apologize to the first decade that I was teaching. But it took me a long time to figure that out. So what I do, if you don't mind me telling you Let me hear it. So just a basic, I always do a quick five, ten minute review, like a cyclical ten minute review. Then you have this basic lesson. I always give twenty minutes, maybe more, of this independent work time. It is during that time that you have you have kids, some kids will take the whole twenty minutes. Some kids will whip through it. And it's those kids that whip through it that you have to address. Because in my mind, when I when I think tier one instruction, everybody always goes to like, what do you do with tier two and tier tier three? What do you do with the kids who are dumb in two seconds? Right? this is where you have to address all of that. So I sorry, you want to No, go ahead. Go ahead. So I developed this this I mean I I call it, I I just call it math challenges. and it's and it's this they have to it's the expectation in the classroom. You've done with the inter the independent work, you grab your math challenges. Once the math challenges don't tap out, they're based on the stand seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth grade standards, they just keep going. And then I have a section in the room where the kids can access hints. because you also have to figure out like I gotta work with kids who don't know how to do the grade level material. So there's an there's an aspect of how do I challenge these kids and where can they access, well, where can they go in the classroom to access hints? I can't, I can't sit and talk to you and teach you the Pythagorean theorem right now, but I can give you a space to go to figure that out and then do these math challenges. And then I always take at least once a week to sit with those kids and help them out where they are. So I try to set the classroom up. To address every level. So I've been thinking a lot about the book Focus by Mike Schmucker, which is about just the components of teaching. So I heard a couple of them there. One, anticipatory set, so you get them ready for the day's lesson. Then you also have an objective. Now you would have one that the entire class would have to learn that day, right? But how do you know if they're ready to move on? What do you do? It's great. So that's where it's it's a great question. And that is where that independent independent work time, which I had to shift as well because with the advancement of AI, I just don't give homework anymore. And so I thank you for that too. Yes. So I which actually has been great because you really see what they do authentically themselves. put a pen in that I have a point on that because I have a question. Keep going, but I have a question about that. And and then when I it's almost like a I mean I do when I keep saying independent work time, it can be anything from like An exit ticket to a to a bunch of problems that I created, to something that my curriculum provided. so how do I know that they're ready to move on? I would say the the best answer to that is if they can apply that skill to an unknown problem that I've given them. depends on the skill. I mean, I think you might know even sometimes math lends itself to like. builds on the next thing we're learning. They had to have learned the the previous skill. I like that you have them do something in a different form because we'll we're going to get into this a little bit, but some of those programs that you use to supplement, my worry with a program like IXL, I worry you know how to do the problems within the context of IXL, but there's not a transfer to something over because they're just learning how to do the algorithms. Correct. But it doesn't necessarily transfer to something else. Which is I also think there's this it's great, right? you need to teach the algorithms. You y you you have to sometimes explicitly teach an algorithm. But you can't only do that. Like you they have to be able to explore the conceptual side of a lot of these algorithms. You know, great, have an algorithm. Why does the algorithm work? you know, where's the key right there? Yeah, what's the If you teach why the algorithm works and it's not just a trick, then that helps you I've used I I used to say I haven't said this in a while. But I used to be like, I'll let you use the algorithm when you can explain to me why it works. Love that. Well, you're gonna have to bring that back tomorrow. I do, especially in to try it out tomorrow. Yeah, especially it I used to do that a lot with dividing fractions because that's like a big so easy to say keep change flip, but really talking about dividing a fraction, that's conceptually really difficult. Absolutely. And then it transfers other places then too. Yeah. Yeah. So my question is, you don't give homework. Do you find that some kids ask you for math to do at home? Even though you don't give homework. not and not because their parents want you to, just on their own accord, they want to do some extra math. So they ask you. I do. I very it's rare. I wish it was it was it was not as rare, but I I do get that. and it's it's usually kids who can or I would say in my experience, I have only had kids who I can give more enrichment sides to, which just like another thing I want to talk about. Like teachers sleep on the enrichment part of these curriculums and they are excellent. that's that's actually the first thing. It is a huge thing for the classroom culture too. When the kids see the highest, you know, the most the kids that everyone looks to for the answers, when they see that those kids are being challenged, it changes the entire culture of the classroom too. Because they can be challenged, I can be challenged and I can go for it too. Because that kid does not know everything either. It's really interesting you say that because I I also do these leveled through math shell, the problem of the months. Do you do you ever Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I I I like so what I do is I use them after an assessment. So after an assessment, because like again, Jason, can't stop, won't stop. Like when you're done with an assessment, no, no, no, no, you're not getting a book out. So I have them do these leveled, these problem of the month, these leveled problems. And it is fascinating to me. And I tell them flat out, you get a perseverance grade. You don't give up, that's that's what it is. I mean, and who gives up? It's those kids because they reach the level that they don't know it and they they freak out. Because it's like it, it it's like, yeah. That's hard. They haven't been in a position very often where they don't know how to do it and then and then they just give up. Or they try to they try to find a friend who knows. They try to just just to just to appear that they that they know an answer rather than like persevere through the failure and the the difficulty of not knowing. We talked about that a couple of weeks ago with Prabhu, who is the owner of CEO of Inflection Point Learning, it is so important for those kids to be wrong early in their academic career because the longer that they wait, the harder it is for them to manage. And don't you see it? they they well up. They they it it it it it's almost becomes like they have wrapped their identity around being smart and then then they get to the point where they can't do it. and it's like it's okay. And then you've got those kids who stay on level A and are like, Hey man, that's okay. Like I'm working really hard to to get to level B. You you gotta go get it. For as a student too, like math came very easily until I was in high school. And when I got that resistance, I shut down. Like I now some of it is the teacher too. I had a teacher who turned me off to math for a good fifteen years before I went back to school. No, but it's because you get that resistance and don't know how to handle it. Yeah. Yeah. I could tell you it was my sophomore year. And it same thing, school came really, math came really easily to me. and then it was yeah, my sophomore year in high school. I just I just couldn't get it. Now granted, there was also I probably was having a difficult time in my own personal life, which probably folded into it. But but yeah, I think that actually really affected me. It also makes you a better teacher though too. Because when the math comes really easy to you all the time, sometimes that does not make the best teachers. I remember a story once. I ran a math camp for kids in twenty twelve and we had this math professor from Loyola come, just brilliant guy. But he had n he just did not know how to teach kids and he was literally sweating standing in front of the class because he just did not know. We just threw them to the wolves a little bit. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you're gonna be able to explain it to other people. Yes. Yes. Which like a lot of the best athletes sometimes don't make the best coaches either. It's yeah. Yeah. I had this this theory. I know we're kind of going off on a tangent here, but that's exactly the point of this. Yeah. I had this I I had this. It was when the the new reach assessments came. They're like the you know, if someone was like, Okay, what what is it? What what makes a great teacher? And I was like I I know. And and I and I said it was absolute deep, deep knowledge of your content. your ability to empathize with a a a human being, and also your ability to change your communication style instantly with like seeing a kid and watching their face just like twitch a little bit and be like, I gotta change. I I gotta change. And I was like, Yep, that's That if I could bottle that up somehow, that's and knowing the exact question to ask them that's gonna lead them to the next step. And knowing the kid well enough to know precisely exactly how to say it to that kid that's gonna reach them in that particular moment. I heard this phrase, I did these the district had us do those math classes with DePaul and and someone, I don't remember who it was honestly, but said you want to focus their thinking, not funnel them to the right answer. And I was like, that's brilliant. Like I I I love that. Like you have to figure out the question to ask to focus where they are rather than like, okay, here's here's what you do. Right. And when you've got that with the kid, they get it pretty quickly then. And then the knowledge pool in the class has grown too. So now that kid is now available to help explain that to others too. Exactly. Exactly. It's really cool. Did you I I did you have that as a kid? Like were you one of those like go help other people? I honestly can't remember. I I skip I skipped a grade from math, I think, when I was in third grade, but I mean that didn't do anything because if if the math is just at grade level and you skip a grade, well now you're just doing 50th percentile level work at the next level up. So it doesn't really mean anything. I have to tell you, I have this problem that our district lets kids skip silk sixth grade math. And here's my problem with that. The standards change. So, I get it. You want to skip fifth, you want to skip seventh, okay, but the standards just shift in sixth grade. And it's it's like, I just get I just I I totally agree. And I I could do an entire one. I actually have someone from the used to be on the Illinois Association for Get the Children board coming on in a couple weeks and we'll probably talk about this because acceleration is not always the answer. There is so much cool math you can do before you touch an algebra book. You could spend an entire course on number theory or an entire course on probability, or you could do base two numbers. Like there is so much math you can do before you touch an algebra. Yes. Yes, I agree. I I asked that question about you helping, if you were one of those kids because I was one of those Unpaid tutors, basically. Yeah. The teacher should be tipping you out basically to do that, I won't do it. I won't do it to kids. And I feel like my job is to teach them. And if they know the content already, I gotta teach it. I I gotta keep going. I just feel like I would do a disservice if I just was like here, help me do my job. with this with this other kid. I agree. And and it gets tricky though. And that's that's similar to what I'm gonna talk about is you heard this phrase there's no perfect curriculum? Yes. Because you have to supplement everything. Now here's my question. Why is that? I want to dive into a couple things because I posted on LinkedIn about this, but what were your initial thoughts on that? So I saw your LinkedIn post and my my initial thoughts was like this can't be about money. Right. it can't. It could be. So let me explain real quick. I made a post on LinkedIn. It's not totally, it's way more complicated. Everything in education is very nuanced and complicated. Yeah. But basically the gist of it is I put a post out there and I said, Why can't your math curriculum have attached to the lesson just two things? One, if you need extra practice, click here. Teacher. Teacher can click here. Here's some extra practice that the kids can do and I can print off that's not on a website. Secondly, I can click here again, not having to click through another whole program because teachers have to do that all the time. But I click here and now here is a playlist, if you will, of prerequisites in order to get to today's objective. And it's ready made too. All you have to do is click, click, print, and it's done. But we do not have that. Now it exists some in pockets a little bit, but I have not seen it where it's both. And I challenge people on this LinkedIn post to tell me who can make these. And I predicted that people would. Reach out that were consultants or claims that they've solved the problem. And I still have not seen this document exist anywhere. So what were your initial thoughts on it? So my those my initial thoughts okay, that means I'm gonna go off on tangents. That's okay. That's okay. My initial thoughts was say was what I said. It can't be about money. And and why I went there was in my career, so I've I've this is my twenty-eighth group of kids. In my career, I have looked at a lot of different curriculums. And I thought they only ever give me one unit. And it's always awesome. And and then it's like, and so you're like, yes, this is it. This is this is the curriculum that's gonna shift us. And then I'm like, the rest of the units are are not as great, always, right? And and I and I thought to myself. Could that i i is it just even these are companies, they they just want to make money. Is that what it is? That it's like, okay, we can hook right? We can hook these big districts into think about even our district. I'm not even allowed to look outside of three or four. how did these three or four get their claws into our district? So you can, but there is quite a process. So that's how we ended using Beast Classroom because we went through the process for K to five. So that's the art of problems on my curriculum. So you have to be able to navigate the system and just be willing to figure it out. Yeah. So it doesn't exist, but some of the comments people had it and it's just hilarious. And I very few teachers actually commented on this. I the one says Gemini. So here's one Gemini, Claude, and Copilot have been useful in doing this. So again, I want just click, click, teacher just clicks and it's the extra things. So if you're saying AI is the solution, no, it's not because the teacher still has to put the prompt in and get it. We want less work for teachers so they can focus on teaching the kids and planning out the lessons. So giving them suggestions for prompts means they still have to do it. And then you end up with this disjointed stuff. So you have a teacher pulling from this site, another teacher pulling from another site. And for supplemental intervention materials. Now the kids are more confused because the kids most confused now have to learn another program and navigate that. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Keep doing it this way. And people keep selling more solutions. But the solution is go to this training, buy another program, yes, instead of just having it reaffirming and reinforcing what you're doing in your lesson for that particular day. I'm gonna come at this as as a as a maths teacher as myself, but then I also want to come at this if I if I were running a building. If I were running a building, I think why I would want something like that is for my teachers who are honestly like some par, right? Like because for me, my curriculum document I talk about? Is what you mean? No, like like have this perfect curriculum. Okay. Right. Okay. But for me, my curriculum is my standards. Like I know. I know exactly what I have to teach and I I can do that. I can be like, okay, I have to address this critical area focus. I have looked at I can address that with these activities here from art of problem solving, from from engage New York, from illustrative, from I I I can take the best of those and apply it to a stand. my standards. Yeah. So I think there is for me, I think some of the beauty and art to teaching is is just that. Like I d I don't really need a perfect curriculum because I I know my standards really well. I would say and you have imposter symptoms so I will I do. Yes. But I will say that is a rarity. So what you do It it can only take to a high level to be able to get to that point. And so there has to be a certain amount of trust. And you have to have evidence to back that what you are doing is working and it really is based on the standards. So you have to have a high level of burden of proof before you can be turned loose to that. And that's something that I've learned a lot too. Is like you can't just trust that it's going to do that teacher to teacher. You've got to have a high level of proof that what they are doing is actually working. And in multiple different ways. So whether it's the state assessment or the local assessment or your own assessments just for that particular unit, you've got to make sure that what you're doing is working. I'm also a product of the twenty twelve figure out your own unit of just teachers are not curriculum makers and you have to make every single unit from scratch on your own. Yes, that worked out really well. Yeah. Which I think I was like the rare, like This is awesome. give me these standards. I'm gonna develop this. but but I also think that because and my my principal did a really good job explaining this, like she was like, because that happened, people are so they have so much ownership over the curriculum they developed that it's tough to then get them to shift to a school wide curriculum. And I'm not consider probably me one of those people. that that that's that that's a tough sell for me. It and and I get that. And it's and I've done a little bit of a shift on this myself because in theory it does make sense. You're a math content specialist or whatever or or any kind of specialist. Just trust the teacher to get the job done. And I think that's where it came from. I do think it came from a good place, which is like that, which is teachers are the experts. So let's see if they could do what is best for their kids because they know. But in practice, that is so much harder. And then you end up with disconnected grade levels, disconnected from year to year. Exactly. I didn't even think about grade bands, right? I'm the only sixth grade math teacher at at my school. I didn't even think about what about the second grade that you have three, four different second grade math teachers. Now go back to that supplemental thing, right? So they could use a different supplemental program in second grade and then a different one in third grade. And then in fourth grade. A tea someone could have had a different teacher in second, third, and fourth that used three different programs and now the fourth grade teacher has kids that are used to some permutation or combination of eight different online programs basically and they're trying to engage all the kids. Instead of let's just all be on the same page and what we're trying to do here. No, you're absolutely right, which is why like the I'm coming at this from my perspective, but if I were running a building, no no no no no like I need a K K eight curriculum. And even that is hard because there's not many K eight curricula that exist even too. It's been and math and then ELA too. It it is just really, really challenging. It's really challenging. It is. I I And then you may have new people, you have new teachers come in. You have veteran teachers who are very stuck and married to the way they've always done things. It is so hard to get this up and running. The whole vertical alignment thing is a pipe dream, I think, in a perfect it doesn't really exist either. It does. And there I have found when we vertically align, I think what works is when the teachers have deep respect for each other. 'cause when when when you don't, I you can't. You can't you can't vertically align. And I think they could even do that, but you have philosophical disagreements even within that too, where they think they know. And that's where you have to get back to that burden of proof. And I've seen it. Now vertical alignment for those who may not know, that just means from one grade level to the next, is it aligned? So can the second grade teacher pick right back up where the first grade teacher was, no matter who they had in first grade? That is the goal, but it's really hard to pull off. And don't you don't you also forget that Chicago is one of the very few K eight schools, right? So I feel like I'm in this bubble of Chicago. So but everybody else you talk to across the country is like, we clearly have elementary and middle schools. So to get a K eight curriculum is is near impossible. Yes. I think my dog's barking can probably hear it, but that's okay. That's okay. It's just part of it. The K to eight thing too. So in theory it makes sense. It in theory it's great because you can start the kids at kindergarten by eighth grade. You've had a beautifully vertically aligned experience for all the kids. But one year they may have had a teacher who was on leave. One year they add a brand new teacher. The next year they add a teacher who only lasted for one year. It is just way harder in practice to pull that off. It's way harder. To to like kind of connect that back to the tier one instruction, you never know, right? So that's where I where we started was this you have to set up your classroom because you don't know. I didn't know I was gonna get a bunch of Ukrainian refugees. I didn't know that was gonna happen, right? Like I you don't know. And so because of that, you just simply have to. If you think you're gonna walk in and take a curriculum and you're gonna be able to present your tier one instruction the whole period, and that's it, you got another thing coming. Like You have to address every single level. You just have to. You have to stop complaining about it. Stop complaining that that a third of your kids don't speak English. Stop complaining that that I I have, you know, this kid who can't read and this gets stopped. They're in front of you. What are you gonna do? So it's like you have to set up your classroom to address all those kids. And then there's the outside factors too. You can make any excuse. You can go down any road. You have the kids for seven hours a day. And in your class you have them for one hour. So you just gotta get out of them what you can. Exactly. When they're there too. Exact that doesn't mean Jason, I don't complain. Because you do get overwhelmed. It's the n well, it's the nature of our it's the nature of our industry. Everyone likes to complain. Yeah, this is true. But the you just you have to try to at least figure something out. Yeah, and sometimes the complaint is just to laugh. It's like it is a tough job and it's really hard and it's crazy sometimes. You just have to laugh at it and complain. I had the my my friend Angel, who who shout out to Angel Rivera, the greatest kindergarten teacher that ever lived, but we had said, If you do this job well, it is the most exhausting thing you will do. You get it is emotionally exhausting. It is I I have said I am in an abusive relationship with 85 middle schoolers. you just that's just what you do, right? you you it is exhausting, but it's also amazing, right? But you you you can I can sit there and and read off a script, but then you don't you don't get the results, you don't get the And it's so interesting too with that Soul Distoric podcast, they're talking direct instruction and the the thing they're talking about is a scripted curriculum. And claiming it works. Incredibly insulting. I just I'm like, I can't, I just in my soul don't believe there's just no way that if I read this and they read this, that the I I I couldn't. I know that I would bring in my own. I know that I would change up the kids. I know that I it loses it loses the art to it a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And but at the same time, it's like there there is just a fine line and there's just nuance to everything though, too. So s anything can work if you put the heart, time, and energy into it, and if it works for you too, if it's authentic. But I say that, but at the same time, you have to have some kind of organized structure though. Yeah. So there has to be that middle ground and that is so Hard to pull off and there's so much nuance to it. I want to read you a couple of these other comments. I was gonna ask. I was gonna ask the document. So someone else just drops in their we're looking for the perfect. My ask was just this. I want to take an existing math curriculum. I click here, I get extra practice. I click here and I get supplemental materials based on it. So then someone else just drops their Gmail in. Because they're a consultant. So I emailed their Gmail and said, have you figured this out? Give me one of your sample documents. And see, and there was just crickets. So then someone else, someone else has their own company. And I said, He goes, I'll help because I said, you know, I always like setting lines. So I said, the over under the number of people who reach out to us on this post saying that they've solved it is 7.5. So he said, I'll help you achieve your projection of 7.5. My organization is built for this. I go, awesome. Message me one unit from a major math curriculum that shows exactly what I'm looking for. Any grade level. No response. Now here's the best one. And this is the one that I didn't tell you. Okay. But just to be clear, no one has even responded to you. No one's and people have responded claiming that they have it, but like to your but they want like a fifteen minute call. No, it doesn't exist. Doesn't exist. Does not exist. Someone pops into the comments and I'm not going to mention it by name, but there in our school district is a rubric that has been used now for a few years. It's about a walkthrough tool. Yeah, I know, I know what you speak of. So someone comes in there and drops in the chat and mentions this organization by name and says, they have a fantastic tool that addresses exactly this. So here we go. So I wrote back and I said, I'm going to tell you this in the kindest way possible, but no, they don't. And do you know what happened to that comment? No. It was deleted. They deleted the comment after I asked. Come on. And that is I this is actually what I really, really have always appreciated about you from is this that you cut through that stuff. You cut through it. And you just like, this is just what I need. Somebody That's what we need. And and and then I feel like I'm going crazy because apparently it does not exist. Now our district curriculum has it done a little bit. They've done a better job with extra practice. But the supplemental thing, I cannot stop thinking about this. Here are the kids who need additional help, and we're gonna keep pulling more and more things that are disconnected from the day's lesson and have them do it. And then they may see four or five different programs throughout the course of the day. That it is the most backwards things ever. There's this like Now there's this push, which I actually really believe in, this interdependent conceptual exploration. I really do believe in that, right? Like I'm not saying I don't. However, the reality of having all these kids in your room is you have to at some point explicitly teach some of these algorithms. You have to also explicitly teach maybe even a second, third grade level at in a middle school. Because they don't have this. So to your point, how I need help. Because I would love to do an interdependent task every day, but I'm not gonna be able to do that with someone who can't read and doesn't speak English and d that I I I can't do it. So I mean I probably could, but it would take a it would take a lot Well that's the thing too. Then you're doing you would never do anything else. So that so that's one thing. And and I'm as big a proponent of inquiry learning as anyone. But I'm gonna say it doesn't always work. These interdependent tasks don't work. Now here's why someone still has to teach the content to the children. And in those things, that is what is missing. Someone still has to teach it to them because if they are talking about things, you have to make sure they know they're right. And the solution to that is not have the kids all monitor their own progress. No. The teacher can do that. That's what the teacher's for. Thank you. I went through the current curriculum we're using. We use illustrative. And you know, go through it, you're like, nope, nope, nope, nope. that's pretty good. And there is this this interdependent task. It's great. I I really like it. I use it. But I front load them like nobody's business. I literally teach them explicitly, implicitly, everything about rates and ratios. before they can actually in in an interdependent way explore the nuances of of of what we're talking about. And it's great. And they love it and and they learn and they get frustrated and that's great. But they're not gonna be able to do that without I mean honestly like two weeks of of of yeah of of content. Yeah. They have to be able to do that. And that's what's missing too. And I've started to think too I think that the Danielson framework is partially to blame for the teacher taking the back seat and the content knowledge taking a back seat too. Because we were trained that and it was often out there too. The difference between proficient and distinguished on that rubric was what and distinguished the kids are doing all the work. Yes. Well, if the kids are doing all the work, who is teaching the children? Correct. Someone has to teach the children. Yes, I'm on the the ILT, the instructional leadership team. And and we are really putting a lot of focus on purposeful grouping, interdependency, things like that. And the first thing I say every single time I present is this is a tool in your toolbox. We are just exploring how to perfect this skill. But this is a tool. This is not an ek a Tier one expectation here. This is a this is this is a, I mean, let's be realistic. How often do I do an interdependent skill or independent interdependent task? once, twice a month? You know? That's realistic. That's the real stuff. That's real, that's realistic. That doesn't mean they're not in groups. That doesn't mean they're not in pairs. That doesn't mean they're not. But a true interdependent task, like that's tough. You need the other person. That's tough. And what I'm saying is, and this is years of undoing for me too. What I'm saying is that that's fine because it takes a lot of work to be able to pull that off. And I'm not sure that it's worth all the time and energy when the outcome, I don't even know if it's that much different at the end than just teaching the kids the skill and seeing that they learned it. Someone has to teach it to them and you have to make sure they've learned it. The kids having a clipboard and a checklist, checking off their own learning, doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna learn more. And that's the bottom line. We continually can use proxies for things instead of what are you teaching the kids? How are you teaching it? Did they learn it? And if they didn't, what are you gonna do about it? That's it. Yeah. And those four statements is pretty much it, but we overcomplicate everything so much. Yep. And I think that that LinkedIn thread is the exact point of that. We keep building on layers and layers. I've got this program, I have this solution. What it comes down to more than anything is what do the kids need to learn and did they learn it or not? That's it. It is as simple as that. But again, more and more complex. I think sometimes teachers forget is the answer to the first question, what do they have to learn, is clearly laid out for you. You have state standards. You you have it. Don't let your curriculum tell you what you have to teach. there's there's clear air. critical areas of focus. There's clear things at every grade level. there are people who would listen to this and would disagree with things that we say. So that just shows you what you're up against, though, too. I always use the mind who knew that teaching children who knew teaching children was such a controversial thing. Correct. Correct. I I do love the the idea that also we are brainwashing them 'cause I'm like, yes, I am. I I am brain. I'm trying to get them to understand the concept of dividing a fraction. Like I would love it if I was able to brainwash them into doing that. Have you seen that Louis C.K. clip where he talks about teachers? He was like, Teaching is the worst job because you have to try to teach ma k kids math against their will. And it's just the kids who just happen to live close to the school. Like it it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense when come out to it like that. I you know what? I don't know what it is. And I I wish I could tell you, but I get so excited about math. And I truly believe that I like inject these kids with the same excitement. And I know that is so I don't know, it sounds arrogant. I I don't like I don't think it sounds that's not arrogant at all. If it lights you up, if you if something lights you up, it's gonna light the kids up. Yeah. The the kids fa I always said this too. The kids' favorite subject is math if the key if the teacher gets the kids excited about math. But you can actually fill that in for every single subject. I didn't know I liked social studies at all until I had a high school teacher that maybe love social studies. You're right. So any subject can be interesting if the person is passionate about it. And that's just I also it's probably based in research, too. I always trying to back my claims. I would assume that that's true. Someone studied it sometime, right? I also have this. ridiculous theory that's based on nothing. that in the current state of of children, and they're like TikTok and YouTube shorts and boom, boom, boom. I feel like math kind of lends itself to that like quick, like I come in, I don't know how to do it. By the end of the period, I know. Next day I come in. I don't know. I feel like math l just just lends itself to that like so. I think so too. Because because there's an answer and you're teaching problem solving skills. And those problem solving skills that you teach do they they transcend math. Here's a couple of my nuclear takes though about kids though. So here's one. I think that kids deep down when we don't make them have their devices at school. I think they actually like that. Wait, one hundred percent. So so sorry, three four years ago, I apologize, I'm so sorry because my the other two classes are science is one hundred was one hundred percent on mine. I'm like, I'm sorry. I go, maybe it's because I'm old. You're and they were like, No, we love it. We love it. And I'm like, I don't know if this has been studied. Another one is I think we don't give kids enough credit. We always claim they have such short attention spans. Well, you know what? If you go in there thinking that they do, then they probably do. Yep. But you have to train them. And if you train them to have a little longer attention span, they're going to do it. They will rise to the occasion. So I think we are selling kids short a lot of times right now because we just have these ideas in their head that they can and can't do certain things, but they actually can. And if you can't and you believe that they can do it, they can. And if you don't believe they can do it, guess what? You're probably right too. Yeah. With these math challenges, I have a someone who at my school who's like, Wait, is it graded? And I'm like, No. And they're like, Well, how do you get them to do it? And I was like, That's the expectation. That's that's what do you mean? Like, that's what they have to do. And from day one, and it's like if you create that culture of like, come on, you can do it. Come on, come here, come sit with me. We're gonna do this. You're gonna fake, look at you. Do you know what this is? This is this is sophomore level math. This is make they're Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you just have to that that goes back to that homework thing we were saying earlier, too. And actually, I wanted to say this about homework. We're gonna wrap this up in a second. We could probably make this a two hour episode, but I try to cut it off after 35 minutes and we're at 41. But the I'm sorry. No, don't be sorry. I could talk about this all day. The the homework thing is related to that, where the kids will do more sometimes if you just train them and they don't have anything at home. But the also the homework thing is you have to catch the misconceptions. It's related to what we're saying about the interdependent task. If you send them home and they practice it wrong, you're it's making things worse. Absolutely. You have to do it when it is fresh. And when it's fresh is when they're working in class and you can go around and see what they're doing. And at the end of class. And then the next day you can see if they remembered it. But there's really not a whole lot of point to have them go home and do it. the more they practice, the more they practice great. They they practice all 70 minutes with me. 70 minutes a day. You know, because we came in and we hit it hard. Because we hit it hard all day, every day. And the the other thing about the homework thing I was gonna say before too is think about this. Pretend the norm was not to give homework. Just pretend that was the norm in education for generations, right? And someone comes along and go, hey, I've got an idea. Why don't we send the kids home where they don't have a teacher and have them do more schoolwork for another half hour? Yeah. Would that not be the stupidest idea anyone has ever heard of? Yeah, I have this. I want to be like, I get paid to teach your child. You don't have to do it. I get paid to do that. I can do that. I'm I'm trained to do it. I do it well. that's that's what I do in class. man, Jason, I really do get salty that there are just some teachers who just only are on for like half the period. Like no, no, all day. No, you gotta be in it the whole time. You gotta be in it to win it. Yeah. Every one of those minutes is valuable. And again, no judgment on what you do. Sometimes you go in and the kids, you can just tell the kids need a five-minute break. Okay, they do. Absolutely. But what do you do after that? So, you have to look at the whole body of work and look at all the trends. Yeah, it doesn't matter no judgment on a particular thing. Correct. But you gotta be on the whole time and you gotta respond to the needs of your kids. Yeah. Yeah. All right, Ann, we're gonna wrap it up. It has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. I will talk to you about education. Anytime. Well, we'll have to have you back. Absolutely. I I would like you said, I have an imposter syndrome. So I I would we all do. Yeah. No, not everyone, but a lot of people do. I sure do. I'm gonna do an episode about that. I gotta figure out a good guest to talk about imposter syndrome. Because I've even read like Tom Hanks has imposter syndrome. Isn't that funny? Like it's I guess there's value to like I'm constantly learning. So I you're never satisfied. Yeah. It can be a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Until someone listens to both of us and calls both of us imposters. And then I I don't even know. And we'll be like, we know, okay? We know. Please just leave Ann and I alone, please. All right. Anne Quaid, thank you so much for joining. This was Subplots of Education. And I don't know what the episode description will be. We just talked about teaching. Thanks so much, Ann. Thank you so Goodbye. Bye-bye.