Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / AVAX Preps For ETF with MASSIVE Stablecoin Yields!🚀Avant Protocol CEO INTERVIEW

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AVAX Preps For ETF with MASSIVE Stablecoin Yields!🚀Avant Protocol CEO INTERVIEW · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

0:00
Speaker 1: Let's get into Avalanche today, and a lot of this
0:02
Speaker 1: is going to be around stable coins and also some
0:04
Speaker 1: epic yields that could be available within the avax ecosystem.
0:08
Speaker 1: My name is Paul Barrel. Welcome back into the show.
0:10
Speaker 1: Let's get started. I want to thank our sponsor and
0:12
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Speaker 1: by sell crypto gold and silver with your IRA. Let's
0:41
Speaker 1: go over to one of the things I want to
0:44
Speaker 1: hit on today, and that is movement in the Avalanche ecosystem.
0:48
Speaker 1: Grayscale now is filing for an S one and this
0:51
Speaker 1: of course will mean an ETF so we could be
0:54
Speaker 1: seeing some big action here with Avalanche. And one of
0:58
Speaker 1: the reasons that we're kind of go in this direction
1:00
Speaker 1: today with avalanches. We wanted to dive in a little
1:03
Speaker 1: deeper on this whole idea of vaults, and we've talked
1:07
Speaker 1: about this a little bit, but we hadn't had one
1:09
Speaker 1: on yet. We haven't had a vault on. Today we're
1:12
Speaker 1: going to bring on the CEO and founder of a
1:15
Speaker 1: vault and that of course is Rhetship.
1:17
Speaker 2: How are you at, I'm doing great, glad to be here.
1:19
Speaker 1: We'll get into exactly what a VANT does, but I
1:21
Speaker 1: want to show a TVL you guys are showing up
1:24
Speaker 1: in the list there. You're at number seven right there.
1:27
Speaker 1: Good for you in the sense of where vaults, which
1:30
Speaker 1: is very early stage right now, if you don't know
1:32
Speaker 1: what a vault is. Rhet's going to give that explanation
1:35
Speaker 1: to you guys, give me a full understanding of what
1:38
Speaker 1: you guys are trying to do at a VANT.
1:40
Speaker 2: Thanks for the intro, and we've been grateful for that
1:42
Speaker 2: growth so far. So as of right now, a vont
1:46
Speaker 2: provides a yield on both dollars and bitcoin. You can
1:49
Speaker 2: see the SAVUSD yield right now is about thirteen percent
1:53
Speaker 2: and similar for sav BTC. The way these work at
1:57
Speaker 2: a high level is pretty simple. So USD is minted
2:00
Speaker 2: from USDC, and then that USDC goes into a diversified
2:05
Speaker 2: basket of dollar denominated yield generating strategies. Some of those
2:10
Speaker 2: strategies are happening on avalanches that are happy on ethereum.
2:13
Speaker 2: The strategies themselves are omni chanin just finding the best
2:15
Speaker 2: risk adjusted yields in DeFi and then similar story with
2:19
Speaker 2: bitcoin where it's minted with BTC dot B and then
2:23
Speaker 2: that BTC goes into a basket of bitcoin denominated yield
2:27
Speaker 2: generating strategies. I'll just touch on one of the strategies.
2:31
Speaker 2: There's there's many ways to earn yield, but a lot
2:33
Speaker 2: of people may be following Athena's rise. It went from
2:38
Speaker 2: it's like almost twelve billion in TVL now they've only
2:42
Speaker 2: been around a few years. They do what's called the
2:44
Speaker 2: carry trade, where they hold mostly like yield bearing eth
2:49
Speaker 2: in spot and then they open up short positions on
2:53
Speaker 2: derivatives platforms like perpetual exchanges and in bulmarket. It's a
3:00
Speaker 2: special you can get paid a lot to go short,
3:02
Speaker 2: so you net out to dollar neutral, but you're getting
3:04
Speaker 2: paid to bet against on the short leg. We will
3:08
Speaker 2: do that carry trade as well when it's profitable, and
3:10
Speaker 2: then when it's less profitable. There are lots of other
3:13
Speaker 2: strategies that you can run and DeFi and so we have,
3:17
Speaker 2: you know, probably ten strategies running at any given time
3:20
Speaker 2: generating that yield. All of ours is based on chain,
3:24
Speaker 2: So we don't have any strategies running on finance. Nothing
3:26
Speaker 2: against them, but it's all on chain yield generation kind
3:30
Speaker 2: of across the EVM.
3:33
Speaker 1: So beyond the carry trade, what other routes are you
3:35
Speaker 1: guys taking to be able to garner this much in
3:38
Speaker 1: terms of yield offerings?
3:40
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another place that you'll see us play a lot
3:42
Speaker 2: is Pendle and Spectra, which is similar to Pendle. These
3:46
Speaker 2: are yield trading platforms where a lot of times there
3:50
Speaker 2: will be some yield bearing stable coin for example that
3:53
Speaker 2: has that maybe also has like air drop points coming
3:56
Speaker 2: and so you have some natural yield baked in from
3:58
Speaker 2: treasuries or something else, and then there's also an air
4:01
Speaker 2: drop and so that you can you can kind of
4:03
Speaker 2: sell that piece off and you get just like a
4:05
Speaker 2: nice sturdy dollar yield. So Pendle and Spectra are huge
4:10
Speaker 2: in the in the current market. That's like a very
4:12
Speaker 2: common thing. There's liquidity providing for stable coins. Some are
4:16
Speaker 2: doing really good yield, and often that's coming from either
4:20
Speaker 2: facilitating leverage for others, So like f of X protocol,
4:26
Speaker 2: people who go levered long on e end up paying
4:30
Speaker 2: the fx USD holders and so just providing liquidity for those.
4:35
Speaker 2: And we'll even do liquidity deals with teams if there's
4:37
Speaker 2: some really high quality team that's building some platform and
4:41
Speaker 2: we say, hey, we can come in and bring some TVL.
4:43
Speaker 2: Is there a way for you to kind of boost
4:45
Speaker 2: our hield so we can bring sticky TVL. We'll we'll
4:47
Speaker 2: do that sort of thing as well. So that's that's
4:49
Speaker 2: kind of like a summary of the types of strategies
4:52
Speaker 2: you'll see and and the base source of yield. There's
4:55
Speaker 2: carry trades a big one, and then r w a's
4:57
Speaker 2: are a big one. A lot of stables right now
4:59
Speaker 2: are backed by treasury yield, and then they're adding things
5:01
Speaker 2: on top with air drops, et cetera.
5:04
Speaker 1: So that okay, So that gives you a lot of flexibility,
5:07
Speaker 1: which I think would make sense of you guys growing
5:10
Speaker 1: so much. I'm just looking here at your apy and
5:14
Speaker 1: I want to get into that, because that's something that
5:16
Speaker 1: when you look at apy right now, many people would say, well,
5:20
Speaker 1: wait a minute, we've got a FED that might be
5:22
Speaker 1: lowering rates here most likely is going to happen. What
5:26
Speaker 1: does that look like when you have these yield products
5:29
Speaker 1: like this, especially in these vaults going forward, if we
5:33
Speaker 1: start to see interest rates starting to adjust down, that's.
5:36
Speaker 2: A great question. I think there's a few factors that
5:38
Speaker 2: impact our ability to generate yield. The biggest one is
5:43
Speaker 2: things like the carry trade are most profitable in really
5:46
Speaker 2: bullish markets. So if the crypto market as a whole
5:50
Speaker 2: is a really strong goal market, then you should be
5:54
Speaker 2: able to generate much higher yields. And we've seen that
5:56
Speaker 2: so far this year. Earlier this year, when the market
5:58
Speaker 2: was not quite so bullish, we stake da v USD
6:02
Speaker 2: was doing maybe seven to ten percent, and then now
6:05
Speaker 2: it's been doing thirteen. We were over twenty a few
6:09
Speaker 2: weeks ago. And so when the crypto markets are bullish,
6:13
Speaker 2: that is positive for yields. And then the other side
6:17
Speaker 2: of yields is, yeah, there are other yields that yield
6:21
Speaker 2: generating strategies will engage in that come the base yield
6:25
Speaker 2: is coming from things like treasury treasuries, and so for
6:28
Speaker 2: those you will see some compression there if interest rates
6:33
Speaker 2: fall significantly, so those strategies may just become less competitive.
6:37
Speaker 2: Or in markets where that is the primary strategy, then
6:40
Speaker 2: maybe the yield floor lowers a little bit. So it
6:43
Speaker 2: has an impact. But in the current market condition, if
6:46
Speaker 2: the Fed's lowering rates and that causes the crypto market
6:49
Speaker 2: to searge, I would expect yields to go up, not down.
6:53
Speaker 2: But if you're in a bear market the crypto markets week,
6:56
Speaker 2: carry trades week and treasury rates are falling laying, then yeah,
7:01
Speaker 2: that's going to probably reduce the floor that you're able
7:03
Speaker 2: to get.
7:03
Speaker 1: Talk to me a little about the mechanics. The process
7:06
Speaker 1: for the yields to pay out is that on daily
7:10
Speaker 1: weekly by you know, immediate what's the what's the rollout
7:13
Speaker 1: on that?
7:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, great question. So the yields for stake dave USC
7:17
Speaker 2: and state DAVBTC are both paid out daily and you're
7:21
Speaker 2: really earning last week's yield over the over the course
7:25
Speaker 2: of week. So the net asset value of the portfolio
7:28
Speaker 2: is struck every Wednesday and then Thursday kind of there's
7:31
Speaker 2: an epoch flip over and you get paid kind of
7:34
Speaker 2: that previous week's yield over the next seven days, and
7:37
Speaker 2: then EPOC flips over again on Thursday, So you'll see
7:41
Speaker 2: yields kind of a just every Thursday, but you're going
7:44
Speaker 2: to be seeing that yield show up for yourself on
7:46
Speaker 2: a daily basis.
7:47
Speaker 1: For you guys that are out there, if you put
7:49
Speaker 1: it in, it's going to take a week for you
7:50
Speaker 1: to get through that first layer, and then at that
7:53
Speaker 1: point you'd start to see the daily yields coming from
7:56
Speaker 1: the week before.
7:57
Speaker 2: Okay, well, let me clarify that that it would be
8:00
Speaker 2: true if you were depositing on the very first week
8:03
Speaker 2: we were live. Oh, if you depose it today, you're
8:07
Speaker 2: already participating in the yield from the previous week. And
8:10
Speaker 2: so if you had deposited the day Avant launched, you
8:13
Speaker 2: would have not seen yield for the first week, and
8:15
Speaker 2: you were forever after that. But now you deposit any time,
8:20
Speaker 2: day or night, any day of the week's adia immediately
8:22
Speaker 2: earning yield.
8:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's great. What about withdrawal? What is the
8:27
Speaker 1: work withdrawal? Time someone jumps into the vault, what's to
8:31
Speaker 1: get out? What's the process? How long does it take?
8:34
Speaker 2: Yeah? There's two steps. So what you want to do
8:36
Speaker 2: if you're in safe US or SAVTC is you first
8:39
Speaker 2: unstake it and there is a cool down period. During
8:42
Speaker 2: that cool down period, you're not earning yield, and then
8:45
Speaker 2: you can it converts to AVUSD or AVBTC. The cool
8:49
Speaker 2: down periode for AVBTC or state DAVBDC right now is
8:52
Speaker 2: a week, and for stated USD right now it's twenty
8:55
Speaker 2: four hours. It is unlikely to ever be longer than
8:59
Speaker 2: a week or short of than twenty four hours. The
9:01
Speaker 2: state day of USD it used to be a week
9:03
Speaker 2: as well, and this is kind of we're experimenting to
9:05
Speaker 2: see if we can keep it shorter, just to add
9:08
Speaker 2: more kind of utility and flexibility to our users. So
9:12
Speaker 2: if you click on stake, you waight the cool down.
9:15
Speaker 2: At the end of the cool down, it converts to
9:17
Speaker 2: the base asset AVUSD or av BTC, and then that
9:20
Speaker 2: you go and redeem base back into USDC or BTC
9:26
Speaker 2: dot be. There's a small redemption fee, it's five basis points,
9:29
Speaker 2: and then the redemption generally happens within an hour or so,
9:35
Speaker 2: but it can take I think the longest we've seen
9:37
Speaker 2: it take is a couple of days, but it could
9:39
Speaker 2: take up to a week to redeem it. Like if
9:41
Speaker 2: we had, like the entirety of users want to redeem,
9:45
Speaker 2: it could take up to a week to redeem everyone.
9:47
Speaker 1: Why does it take a week to roll out of.
9:52
Speaker 2: Of ALT? So it never has for users so far
9:56
Speaker 2: taken a week to redeem people into USDC, like I said,
9:59
Speaker 2: it to an hour or two. The strategies we're in
10:03
Speaker 2: are highly liquid, but some of them are more liquid
10:05
Speaker 2: than others. And so if you took the entire I
10:08
Speaker 2: think we have about ninety five million in a USD
10:10
Speaker 2: and you said we want to redeem all ninety five million,
10:13
Speaker 2: some of those strategies would take a few days to unwind,
10:17
Speaker 2: and then some of them we can unwind right away. Okay,
10:20
Speaker 2: so we could we could unwind the entire strategy in
10:23
Speaker 2: about a week with very low slippage. But we've never
10:26
Speaker 2: had that kind of redemption requests levels coming in. And
10:30
Speaker 2: so what we've more seen is people are deeming small
10:33
Speaker 2: amounts and those are those have all been filled within
10:35
Speaker 2: a few hours generally.
10:36
Speaker 1: Oh okay, all right, why choose avas on this?
10:40
Speaker 2: The strategies themselves are our omni chain. We go anywhere
10:43
Speaker 2: there's risk adjusted yield, but a lot of the strategies
10:46
Speaker 2: are running on AVAX. There's some great places to aren
10:48
Speaker 2: yield there as far as AVUSD and av BTC living
10:51
Speaker 2: on AVAX. You know, long term these assets should live
10:55
Speaker 2: everywhere where there's demand for them, and so long term
10:58
Speaker 2: you'll see a v us davp T, see a eavavax
11:01
Speaker 2: all across the EVM and maybe even be on the EVM. Frankly,
11:05
Speaker 2: the Avalanche Foundation and AVA Labs have been super supportive.
11:10
Speaker 2: As a thank you for that, we said, well launch
11:12
Speaker 2: here first. It's been a great experience. They've they've been
11:16
Speaker 2: doing a big defive push and they've been attracting lots
11:19
Speaker 2: of the best platforms. Over Oiler, which is a lending market,
11:23
Speaker 2: came over and it's been amazing. Some really great risk
11:26
Speaker 2: curators have come over and curated on Eiler. Silo is
11:30
Speaker 2: also a lending market they attracted over as well. It
11:33
Speaker 2: was really like us rewarding them for being like ultra
11:36
Speaker 2: friendly to us as builders and saying, okay, this will
11:38
Speaker 2: be kind of our first deployment.
11:40
Speaker 1: I'm looking here at the protocols, and if you look
11:45
Speaker 1: at integrations, you know, Trader Joe, Pharaoh, et cetera. What
11:49
Speaker 1: integrations I guess do you currently have and then what
11:52
Speaker 1: are you looking at in the future.
11:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, so right now that earned page is mostly focused
11:55
Speaker 2: on liquidity pools, and yeah, you see some of them there.
11:58
Speaker 2: There's also some liquidols on black Hole for those that
12:01
Speaker 2: are interested, you can look at that one as well.
12:04
Speaker 2: That might be the second one from the bottom. And
12:08
Speaker 2: so for those who like to participate in decentralized exchange
12:10
Speaker 2: liquidity provisioning, that's a great place to go where you
12:14
Speaker 2: see Actually the most activity for the av assets is
12:18
Speaker 2: on three different lending platforms, which are Oiler, Silo and Folks.
12:25
Speaker 2: All three of those take SAVUSD as collateral, and then
12:30
Speaker 2: Silo takes s av btc is collateral. And so what
12:33
Speaker 2: a lot of our users are doing is posting save
12:36
Speaker 2: usd a is coateral, borrowing USDC and then minting in
12:39
Speaker 2: steaking more save USD and so you're just getting like
12:42
Speaker 2: kind of an amplified yield so long as the borrow
12:45
Speaker 2: cost is less than our steaking yield. So those markets
12:48
Speaker 2: have been really popular. That's the thing that you'll see
12:51
Speaker 2: the most of We have other lending markets coming relatively soon.
12:55
Speaker 2: Benke is likely to list save USD relatively soon goes there. Yeah, yeah,
13:00
Speaker 2: that one could be good. But that's that's the thing
13:02
Speaker 2: people like to do the most is kind of leverage
13:04
Speaker 2: up on the yield, and that adds some risk because
13:08
Speaker 2: if the lending market gets really highly utilized and those
13:11
Speaker 2: those interest rates can go very high and need to
13:13
Speaker 2: pay down your debt to manage. So add some risk,
13:16
Speaker 2: but it can add some yield as well.
13:17
Speaker 1: Why do you think that we've seen the avax stable
13:20
Speaker 1: coin TVL be so stagnant because we haven't seen a
13:24
Speaker 1: lot of growth in that area, and at least in
13:27
Speaker 1: the last several months, what do you think it is.
13:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been growing a bit more recently, especially with
13:33
Speaker 2: Oiler and Silo et cetera. They've attracted a lot of
13:38
Speaker 2: stable cooin TVL. I think you're also kind of growing
13:41
Speaker 2: off a big base. I've noticed there's like really large
13:43
Speaker 2: amounts of USDT sitting on AVAX, but I don't I
13:46
Speaker 2: actually don't know where it is because it's not sitting
13:49
Speaker 2: in DeFi. So you're growing off a relatively big base.
13:51
Speaker 2: But if you look at stable coins used in DeFi,
13:53
Speaker 2: those are growing pretty strongly. I've noticed oiler I think
13:57
Speaker 2: from the day at launch went to over one hundred
13:59
Speaker 2: million TV in like two days yea, and most of
14:02
Speaker 2: that's been stable coins. So my perspective is stable coin
14:05
Speaker 2: usage and DeFi has when growing a lot actually interesting.
14:08
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I want to go circle back to
14:11
Speaker 1: ETFs for a second, because then I want to get
14:14
Speaker 1: into treasury companies and and just your opinion. If you
14:16
Speaker 1: look at ETFs and the potill the potential of yields
14:22
Speaker 1: on ETFs themselves, do you feel like avalanche would have
14:25
Speaker 1: a better opportunity, especially in the ETF market because it's
14:30
Speaker 1: very competitive. Obviously we're seeing every imaginable token out there.
14:34
Speaker 1: We're going to most likely see an XRP e t
14:36
Speaker 1: F go live here any you know, the next month
14:38
Speaker 1: or so. Obviously, Bitcoin and ethereum have been doing very well.
14:43
Speaker 1: Once we get an avalanche e t F yields capacity
14:47
Speaker 1: within that, do you think that'll make a big difference
14:50
Speaker 1: going forward?
14:50
Speaker 2: I think it's likely to. We've seen a lot of
14:52
Speaker 2: inflows in the e t TF lately, and Bitcoin ETF
14:56
Speaker 2: has had a ton historically.
14:57
Speaker 1: Those are two major assets. Avalanche, which is a great asset,
15:01
Speaker 1: but it's got I don't know that it has a
15:03
Speaker 1: bitcoin in athereum, you know Billboard. That's why I'm kind
15:07
Speaker 1: of curious if you think it'll help.
15:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot more. It's not at that level
15:10
Speaker 2: of maturity for sure, and it's not at that level
15:14
Speaker 2: of name recognition. But a point you made about the
15:17
Speaker 2: staking yield, this is a point that's been made about
15:19
Speaker 2: the eth ETFs for a little while now, is that
15:22
Speaker 2: when you get stakedy staked eth ETFs, it's likely to
15:26
Speaker 2: be more attractive than the current ETFs. I think that's true,
15:30
Speaker 2: and I think that'll be true for avax as well.
15:33
Speaker 2: You can't really get that in bitcoin in the same way.
15:36
Speaker 2: But I do think the staking yield does make those
15:38
Speaker 2: things a little bit more attractive than the otherwise would be.
15:40
Speaker 2: And I think before very recently that just wasn't an option.
15:44
Speaker 2: I think that's going to become a bigger thing, and
15:46
Speaker 2: I think staking in general or yield in general, should
15:50
Speaker 2: help those ETFs be a little bit more attractive than
15:52
Speaker 2: the otherwise would be.
15:53
Speaker 1: I'm expecting Anthony Scaramuci or someone like that to launch
15:58
Speaker 1: a treasury product. You look at Solana coming out here.
16:03
Speaker 1: Sharps Technology STSS now launched half a billion dollar private placement.
16:09
Speaker 1: You look at this, this could be pretty big in
16:11
Speaker 1: terms of opportunity. Again, these are treasury dat companies, digital
16:16
Speaker 1: asset treasury companies that have started to become kind of
16:19
Speaker 1: the new craze right now. Do you think that we'll
16:22
Speaker 1: see more like that? And do you think we'll see
16:24
Speaker 1: one for Avalanche this year?
16:26
Speaker 2: I think every asset apart from like stable coins in
16:31
Speaker 2: the top twenty market cap in crypto, we'll have at
16:35
Speaker 2: least one debt within the year, is my guess. Wow,
16:40
Speaker 2: that would include Avalanche. Eith has a ton of on bitcoin,
16:43
Speaker 2: as a ton of Soul has one, BnB has one, yep,
16:47
Speaker 2: and I think we see I think we do see
16:50
Speaker 2: one for Avax for every one of these assets. I
16:53
Speaker 2: think it drives a lot of net by pressure. The
16:57
Speaker 2: amount of that is going to depend on how while
17:00
Speaker 2: they can maintain an m NAV premium. That for the smaller,
17:05
Speaker 2: younger assets is maybe going to be a little bit
17:07
Speaker 2: harder than it's been for micro strategy and Bitcoin, But
17:10
Speaker 2: for those that are able to it should just drive
17:12
Speaker 2: like really substantial inflows to those assets. So you could
17:16
Speaker 2: see like a lot of net bipressure, and it's a
17:19
Speaker 2: lot easier to drive net biopressure for something like Avax
17:21
Speaker 2: compared to Bitcoin because it's at like what seventeen billion
17:25
Speaker 2: FDV versus over two trillion, and so the amount of
17:29
Speaker 2: byopressure you need to engage into drive price upward is
17:33
Speaker 2: a lot less.
17:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, you just look at the list right here,
17:37
Speaker 1: I would. I mean there's there's been talks of dosee
17:39
Speaker 1: coin already. I haven't heard of one on Cardono yet,
17:42
Speaker 1: chain Link most likely. I don't know about hype Stellar, yes,
17:46
Speaker 1: we possibly, and then Avalanche coming in right now at
17:49
Speaker 1: least on the token list of coin market cap at seventeen,
17:53
Speaker 1: so maybe there will be one coming. I'm looking forward
17:57
Speaker 1: to it because I think these treasure companies one thing
17:59
Speaker 1: is that does do is it opens up digital assets
18:03
Speaker 1: to Wall Street, and I think that's another layer of education,
18:07
Speaker 1: whether it's through money managers or a lot of just
18:09
Speaker 1: traditional finance people that are finally looking at this market
18:13
Speaker 1: differently going forward. So it could be a a big
18:16
Speaker 1: move for sure.
18:17
Speaker 2: I was just going to say, I think what micro
18:18
Speaker 2: Strategy also showed is that in some cases it's more
18:22
Speaker 2: attractive than ETFs because MSTR has been able to com
18:26
Speaker 2: round the amount of bitcoin they hold per fully looted share,
18:30
Speaker 2: and so in a lot of ways, I think these
18:32
Speaker 2: dats may drive more inflows than ETFs. Well, they're kind
18:35
Speaker 2: of different classes of buyers, but I think the dats
18:40
Speaker 2: are higher impact than ETFs.
18:42
Speaker 1: Right, we're going to be watching a vot and what
18:45
Speaker 1: you guys are doing over there as your ecosystem grows,
18:48
Speaker 1: and especially as the vault strategy starts to play out
18:51
Speaker 1: in this new world of crypto. So thanks for coming
18:54
Speaker 1: in today. We appreciate it.
18:56
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
18:57
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19:18
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