Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about their choice of Planet of the Spiders (5/6)

Transcript

Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about their choice of Planet of the Spiders (5/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:22
  None. Hamster with a blump.
• 0:34
  Pen knife for doing quicker. Quicker.
• 0:41
  Quicker What? Welcome back to a Hamster with
• 0:44
  the Bloom Pen Knife, the Doctor Who Commentaries podcast Where
• 0:48
  we are up to episode 5. Is it episode 5 or is it part
• 0:52
  five? It's episode 5, Episode 5 of
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  Planet of the Spiders. John Perky's final story as
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  Doctor Who. He had tonight with me is the
• 1:03
  great sigh. Say hello the great praise.
• 1:06
  To the great sigh or. Praise to the great sigh, and
• 1:10
  all praise to the great Ham himself.
• 1:12
  All praise to the great Ham. Jewelford.
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  That wasn't going hammy enough. I'm.
• 1:17
  Sorry, don't worry, you're actually nothing yet.
• 1:20
  How we're doing, gentlemen? Yeah, relaxing into a part.
• 1:24
  With six par with my two best mates, I'm having a grand time.
• 1:29
  So last time in episode four we mentioned that it has been quite
• 1:36
  a while since we did part one to three of this and it was, you
• 1:42
  know, quite some time. So in the time honoured hamster
• 1:46
  with the bullet pen knife tradition, it's time to see how
• 1:49
  well you guys have been paying attention and what's happened so
• 1:52
  far. What today?
• 1:55
  Yeah. Oh, sorry.
• 1:56
  So right. We'll do a set of times.
• 1:58
  Oh. No, no, I've got.
• 2:00
  I'm going to test his. I'm going to test his on.
• 2:01
  This one OK. Great.
• 2:04
  Yeah, so I've got is it. Multiple choice.
• 2:07
  No. Can I phone a friend?
• 2:09
  Nope. Oh, OK, you're on your own on
• 2:13
  this one. OK, I'm ready.
• 2:15
  If there was an audience, I might let you ask the audience,
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  but you know, we'll go, we'll go on a time.
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  So Drew, I'm going to start with you.
• 2:21
  I might put in that suspense. Camp eve.
• 2:23
  Strictly camp hamster music. Just for this bit.
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  Go on, Go. So with this being John
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  Purpley's last story, the production team, you know,
• 2:33
  decided to treat them a little bit.
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  You know they're going to be car chase, give them lots of action
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  to do. But they also brought back a lot
• 2:41
  of guest actors I. Can read it.
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  Who have appeared in previous stories that he's gotten on
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  with? So how many of the support and
• 2:51
  cast has appeared in previous Third Doctor stories?
• 2:54
  Why are you asking me that one? That's tailor made for Psy, OK?
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  That's why he's not asking me. Parents Lodge, who played Aurum,
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  oh, the fella who got hit by the wrench in Inferno, Walter
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  Randall. He's in this.
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  Ricky Franklin. Does that count?
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  Nope. OK.
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  I don't think regular. I don't think the fellow plays
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  Tommy is oh God, it's one of the stuntmen in there.
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  No, Oh no I don't. Ralph Arlis, definitely not
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  Jenny Lair. Definitely not Gareth Hunt,
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  definitely not. Oh, Kevin Lindsay, who is in
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  episode 6 And that is the Sontaran, isn't it?
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  Links. Is that it?
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  No, no. Is it is it loads more?
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  Yeah, there's John Durth, boss. Boss.
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  That is Cyril shaps. Oh, of course, Cyril Shaps.
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  That is Pat Gorman, because there's always Pat Gorman.
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  There's Max Folk Club, who is the leader of the Guards, who's
• 4:03
  one of the the stuntman. There is George Cormack, who we
• 4:07
  haven't seen yet, but we are about to see back from the Time
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  Monster. You are the biggest geek.
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  I know. Do you know?
• 4:16
  Yes. And Stuart Fell.
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  OK. Sorry, Walsh.
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  I failed that one. Right.
• 4:22
  So sorry comes in to steal the the bonus point there.
• 4:26
  So sorry, your own question is yes, where is Lupton?
• 4:32
  Ah, now I do know this one. Lupton, Lupton.
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  Lupton. Lupton.
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  Lupton's gone down to the cellar.
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  That is correct. Lupton has went down to the
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  cellar. Well done.
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  So Joe, your next question. Oh, go on, go on.
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  In episode two, we have the giant car chase which features
• 4:50
  comedian chubby oats. Yes.
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  Now, true or false, Chubby Oats's real name is Royston
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  Vasey. True.
• 5:03
  Oh, that's false. Fuck a duck.
• 5:05
  I'm terrible at this. Royston Busy is the real name of
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  Chubby Brown. Oh, bugger it.
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  Although I will say, you know, I did just visit the locations of
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  the Planet of the Spiders Chase this weekend.
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  You did? And it will come as no.
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  Fabulous Boom Mobile. Thank you.
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  It'll come to no surprise to anybody at all that those roads
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  look exactly the same as they did in the 70s.
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  Right. Sir, your next question, OK,
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  where should we go looking for Lupton?
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  Why is he getting all these easy ones?
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  Liver Lupton. He's in the cellar.
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  That's right, Lupton's gone down to the cellar.
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  Can I have a question about Lupton please?
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  So your next question, Joe? Ah, great.
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  Is is about the spider. So we've talked about the
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  Spiders and how we haven't really talked about the spider
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  so and but we talked about Boris the Spider and all the other
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  spiders that Matt Irvin and the teammates.
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  So how many Spiders does Matt Irvin believe were created for
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  Planet of the Spiders? Oh, you told me this.
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  And the last one. How many were created in total?
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  Yeah. Oh, what?
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  Including all those ones in the supermarket.
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  Yeah. 20. Between 40 and 45.
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  Was it really? I wonder where they all ended
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  up. In a skip.
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  Oh, by the way, I just to be really contrary, there was a
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  recurring guest actor that saw I forgot about and that is Josanne
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  Churchman, the voice of Alpha Centauri.
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  Yep. Great.
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  Simon, Are you ready for your next question?
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  He said. The fucking cellar.
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  All right. If we went down to the cellar,
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  who would we expect to find there?
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  Mr. Lupton. Clever Lupton, yes.
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  Lever Lupton. I used to have when we were on
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  on the Planet Scaro forum, if if we'd done something particularly
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  clever, there was a guy called Wayne who would come on and he
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  would just post clever Luptons at us for being very clever.
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  I can imagine you did that quite a bit then.
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  Yeah, boy, yeah. That was a bit of a catch
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  phrase. He's got more, I think.
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  We'll wrap this up. We've got one question last I
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  can use well. Both of us.
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  Yep, one more each. So Joe and the episode that
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  we've just watched Jon Purpley as the Doctor talks into a
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  delicious bowl of mutton broth. Yes.
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  How does Spoonfuls does he eat? Are you kidding me?
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  Right now he's in the. Cellar All right, though. 3.
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  More than that. A lot more than that.
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  Six. Probably more than that.
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  He does suck. Quite away did.
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  You not count then. Oh no, I lost count.
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  Oh, for God. So Simon, your last question,
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  oh. You passed it.
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  Ready. Is a true or false one?
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  OK, so it's true or false. Lupton has went down to the
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  cellar. True.
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  And what was the scores on the door then?
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  So what? Simon's got five points there
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  because he stole one of yours. And and sure, you've got none.
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  So one of you has been paying attention?
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  This is rather me or the quiz of fucking Rascal on I'm telling
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  you size usually got five points.
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  On I've got. Could I ask you guys a question?
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  Yes. You can where?
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  The hell is Lupton? Well, if we watch part five, we
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  might be able to find out. He's on the shelf in the
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  supermarket, that's where he is. Should we watch Part 5 then and
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  find so we can piece together the clues and maybe he's
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  established where looked and went?
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  I'm going to count down in size points 5432.
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  One off we go. Oh.
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  Wasn't that fun? I hate the quiz.
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  I do quizzes very often this. Is.
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  I can't believe he didn't even count how many sips he had.
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  And that was one of my questions, honestly.
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  Oh, look at Perry flying down the vortex like that.
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  It's just a joy every time, isn't it?
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  Majestic, isn't he? He.
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  Just flies backwards with his arms full to go, so he's a
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  little bitch. His Buffon is so big it plugs up
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  the Vortex. I did have to change some of the
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  questions there because I was going to ask you who won at the
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  Jenny LED prize it rather who appears in this story.
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  Is it oh, is there somebody? Is it?
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  Is it? Is it Jenny?
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  Les. Franklin.
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  That's Dia De Porter. Richard Franklin, Yes.
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  Oh, he mentions that in the commentary.
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  Yeah, He doesn't mention that in the commentary.
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  Do you know we didn't mention Elizabeth Slayton once in the
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  last episode, did we? No.
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  And she was doing her fabulous. Sort of.
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  Theory Oh my God, the. Doctor's dead accident, which I.
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  Love. Oh, we've got more of that to
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  come. Oh yeah, I'm.
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  Better. No.
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  It's so moving at the end though.
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  Yeah. Please don't die.
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  She has a best. Silence.
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  You are in no position to protest.
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  Oh, that one behind him there. You see the way it's twitching?
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  Yeah. It looks like it will leap on
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  him at any minute. Well, as Mary Whitehouse said
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  there, there was a whole spate of arachnophobia because of this
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  story. And we can.
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  See why? I can see why.
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  I'll tell you what now. If I came into my supermarket
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  and it was covered in those spiders, can I ask you a
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  question? And gentlemen, do you prefer the
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  physical props of Planet of the Spiders spiders, or the
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  sophisticated CGI of arachnids in the UK Spiders?
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  Oh yes, I haven't asked you questions for a while, so I'm
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  doing some goodies, you know. It's a tricky 1 because
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  obviously the CGI of arachnids is false.
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  Appear anything we're going to get from the 70s and usually I
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  will say physical effects, because you know physical
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  effects are just the more tangible aren't that the more
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  you know you could you can you could touch those spiders can't
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  you. Whereas cartoon ones you cannot
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  usually get like better, better performances from the actors
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  around them, but it would be interesting to see what they
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  could do with, you know, puppets or physical.
• 11:52
  Now spiders. Now you know.
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  Probably something pretty impressive.
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  I mean, it's it's it's interesting that this story
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  doesn't actually require the spiders to do that much.
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  No, there's a rapidly. Scripted in that they just have
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  to be big and menacing. Yeah, and.
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  It's the sitting on the back that's the thing.
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  It's the jumping on the back. That's what's horrible.
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  It's. It's really that is.
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  Done really well. I mean the the the only time
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  they need to do something is run across the floor and that's
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  that's where Boris comes in. Yeah, always the blood sucking,
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  ex Prime Minister, no spider. So where is, you know, rocking
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  it? In the UK they have to jump out
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  of baths and toilets and Scotland around, so would that
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  be possible to deal with the physical effect?
• 12:41
  I don't think it would to be. Honest.
• 12:43
  You know when they come along the ceiling in the hotel, when
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  Graham's running away from them, then there's like hundreds of
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  them. That's really, really scary.
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  But I don't think there's as good a scare as that spider that
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  jumps on Sarah's back. That's just horrific.
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  That's horrible. What do you think?
• 13:02
  So. Yeah, I've I think they're both
• 13:07
  trying to do different things and that's and that's why both
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  work. OK.
• 13:13
  So I mean I think for 1974, the puppetry here is pretty good and
• 13:17
  pretty solid to be honest. The only time it's a bit of a
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  problem is I get when it's when they're CSO D in, when they're
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  moving from metabedes free to the cellar and you've got them
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  and you've got the the transition with the with the
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  fringing. But otherwise I think they look
• 13:34
  pretty good in this. There's nothing as fabulously
• 13:37
  camp as that queen spider being carried around on that cushion,
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  no. I do not and I oh.
• 13:43
  No, hang on. Sorry.
• 13:44
  Yes, she. Is my husband.
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  'S been taken from me. I don't lose my sons as well.
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  Please do a proper impression. Go on, you do it.
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  I've carried you to the fields. I've laughed with you through
• 13:56
  the short years of your boyhood. Now you're a bad just.
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  You leave me. Alone.
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  Come on. You're doing it.
• 14:04
  He's putting too much into it. Oh, yeah.
• 14:06
  Sorry. Oh.
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  That's funny of, you know to mourn.
• 14:09
  Fryzer, Frank Fryzer, Frankly, there you were asking me about
• 14:12
  dialogue that was pretty ripe. Would it be if it was delivered
• 14:18
  by someone like, I don't know, Louise Jameson, who could inject
• 14:21
  a lot more into it? Louise Jameson could take hold
• 14:24
  of any dark. And make it sound great.
• 14:26
  If I'm honest. Is the case of the dialogue or
• 14:30
  is it the performance? I don't know, because that's how
• 14:32
  you don't say it's it's a good, it's a good cast and they do
• 14:36
  good work elsewhere. So what's the difference here?
• 14:40
  Are they not trying or is the script not great?
• 14:43
  Is it the director not giving them proper direction because?
• 14:48
  Mebes, Mebes. It's the producer, not the
• 14:51
  director or the writer. It's the producer.
• 14:54
  I feel like maybe. The writer and the director.
• 14:57
  Should talk to the producer. Yeah, and do something about
• 15:00
  this. You should probably all three of
• 15:02
  them sit down and have some sort of tool.
• 15:03
  Never. Conference.
• 15:04
  Yeah, ever told me. How many of the Doctor's
• 15:09
  incarnations meet Harry Houdini? Because they've all had a lovely
• 15:13
  weekend with him, because Shootie's just had that.
• 15:16
  Well, no. Shootie had a hot weekend with
• 15:18
  him, yes, and Jodie says that she has a wet weekend with him.
• 15:22
  Yes. Man perk, we just had a.
• 15:25
  Weekend with. It He's got a taste for doctors
• 15:29
  who do this, yes. Did you say that bit a minute
• 15:35
  ago where the guard came up to her, that bloody great knife,
• 15:38
  and she? Genuinely does like, oh, he's
• 15:40
  going to stab me to death. Bit of acting.
• 15:43
  Oh fuck me. Look at that one behind there.
• 15:45
  Yeah, that's good. Isn't it?
• 15:46
  Going crazy. So someone.
• 15:49
  Literally there with a wire doing this.
• 15:52
  But I think the the underneath the shelves is mirrors, so the
• 15:56
  kind of underneath with a pole given it so.
• 16:00
  They can see what they're doing. Given it that, whereas you
• 16:03
  there's the mirror in front, so it doesn't.
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  So it looks like it's empty underneath, but it's not just
• 16:08
  but look how much. Better lit this is Look, that's
• 16:11
  that spider is in silhouette now for the most part, and it's got
• 16:15
  that sort of vivid purple underneath here, and you've got
• 16:19
  that weird sort of web design on the wall behind, so it's a lot
• 16:23
  more visually interested than the supermarket.
• 16:25
  Yeah, it it's feels suddenly better directed, doesn't it?
• 16:29
  Oh, I think the lines. Here can I just do the?
• 16:32
  Line waiting me child. You did it.
• 16:33
  Well done. Sorry.
• 16:35
  Stop fighting me, child. And I think one of the keys to
• 16:39
  these spiders working so well is the female voices are so
• 16:44
  brilliant and they and they've all got great characters and
• 16:48
  they're all slightly different and they're not all
• 16:51
  one-size-fits-all. And there is a bit of argument
• 16:55
  between the different spiders and their factions and things
• 16:58
  like that that really make it. I really think that spider looks
• 17:03
  amazing there. That looks really convincing.
• 17:05
  I think yes. It's it's the movement in the
• 17:07
  legs. Yeah, I I don't know those big
• 17:10
  eyes, because I know spiders do have big eyes, don't they?
• 17:14
  Lots of Paul Perly's just walking around these Mac
• 17:16
  corridors, and he. And they're pretty drab
• 17:19
  corridors as well. I know.
• 17:22
  And he keeps going. Past the same table which is
• 17:24
  sort of showing you. It's the same.
• 17:28
  Oh, my Gates, he's been. Tied up for an episode and a
• 17:31
  half? Oh no.
• 17:35
  Everyone gets their go with the pardon.
• 17:37
  Yeah, it's true. It's true.
• 17:44
  Back to these pool. Imagine Mike Yates just
• 17:46
  disappears. Doesn't he?
• 17:47
  He doesn't actually get an ending.
• 17:49
  No, he doesn't get a leaving scene, does he?
• 17:50
  He just sort of fades, his storyline is done and that's it.
• 17:55
  You can't really get a coder with anybody because it's it's
• 17:58
  perfect. Yeah, What's interesting.
• 18:03
  Trying to write out a companion in the In the last episode of a
• 18:07
  Doctor's advent a Doctor's era as well or all the companions?
• 18:12
  Yeah, you know, crazy. What's what's interesting about
• 18:18
  the behind the scenes is Elizabeth Slayden talking about
• 18:20
  Jon Poetry, distancing himself from all the other actors
• 18:23
  because you can't see that on the screen like he's he's
• 18:26
  playing it as charismatic as he ever was.
• 18:29
  Yep. But behind the scenes, he's kind
• 18:30
  of divorcing himself from the show.
• 18:33
  Whereas you can imagine that any other time in a story directed
• 18:37
  by Barry Letts, because you've got and written by this team,
• 18:42
  he's he's right on it and he's right in there.
• 18:45
  And this one he's that's what he's got to do to get on.
• 18:49
  Tom Baker does it by getting really furious with everyone
• 18:53
  like a beckon. But you can't imagine, and I
• 18:56
  imagine Pertwee had moments like that as well.
• 18:59
  But he's surrounded by people he really loves.
• 19:02
  Exactly. Whereas Tom Baker isn't
• 19:04
  surrounded by anybody he likes also.
• 19:06
  I think Pertwee was always aware that he needed work after this.
• 19:09
  He weren't going to make too many enemies whereas.
• 19:12
  Tom Baker don't give a shit, does he?
• 19:19
  Oh. Sorry.
• 19:22
  For years to leave, you know, there's a little bit where you
• 19:24
  get zapped in episode 6. You know that would have been a,
• 19:30
  you know, perfect, you know, self sacrifice.
• 19:33
  It will weekend. Well, you think he should have
• 19:35
  been killed? Well, I don't think he should
• 19:37
  have been, but you know if you wanted to if you wanted to say
• 19:41
  well, OK, we'll write Yates out as well as is the Third Doctor
• 19:44
  then you know the the mechanisms there in front of you.
• 19:49
  I. Don't mean to speak I'll of the
• 19:51
  dead, but there is a moment in the Clause of Axos commentary
• 19:55
  where Richard Franklin says that had the writers of Doctor Who
• 20:00
  killed off Captain Gates that there would have been a national
• 20:04
  outcry. Those are his exact words.
• 20:07
  He he says that in the making of this.
• 20:10
  Well. How much he's actually meaning
• 20:13
  it and how much he's got his tongue in the.
• 20:15
  I think there's a bit of tongue in the cheek there, isn't there?
• 20:17
  So do. You know, but you know.
• 20:20
  I should. Have some blood pen knife come
• 20:22
  to an end? There would be a national
• 20:24
  outcry, I'm telling. You.
• 20:26
  Oh, it'll never end, Joe. Thank you.
• 20:28
  Thank you, Doctor Who. There's always.
• 20:29
  Yep. Oh, oh, here we go.
• 20:31
  Tommy's going to have a bit of a moment here, I think.
• 20:34
  Yeah, he axes brilliantly, doesn't he?
• 20:36
  He does, and I think actually this is the flashback scene here
• 20:43
  is done brilliantly. Barry Letts is not doing it like
• 20:48
  the screen blurring and harps going and things like that.
• 20:52
  This is really modern and it's sort of chopping the the bits.
• 20:57
  Lupton, Lupton, Lupton. Only we'd watch this episode.
• 21:01
  We would have known the answer to all those Chris questions,
• 21:03
  yes. Lupton's went out of this
• 21:05
  cellar. That's also that mystery, isn't
• 21:08
  it? I think it's really nicely done
• 21:12
  and again, John Kane is is knocking it out of the park
• 21:15
  here, look. At them healthy eyeing board.
• 21:18
  Yeah, What's going on there? What?
• 21:21
  It's under the stairs. It's probably been forgotten
• 21:22
  about. Yeah, it looks like it has.
• 21:27
  That's a pretty empty first aid kit, I'm not going to lie.
• 21:29
  Do you think that Tommy's? Oh, actually, hang on.
• 21:32
  No, wait. Oh no.
• 21:33
  This is this is this is perk we's best scene because he.
• 21:41
  This is. What I love about this is his
• 21:44
  doctor is so resolute and we've seen him bat off mental
• 21:49
  possession and things like that, but here he is fighting.
• 21:54
  It well, he's embarrassed isn't? He.
• 21:56
  Yeah. And we don't see him embarrassed
• 21:58
  and we don't see him on the back foot like this.
• 22:01
  And he looks terrified. He never looks like this.
• 22:05
  Liz Slayden says in the commentary.
• 22:07
  I can't. Believe you got me to sing, pot,
• 22:09
  goes the weasel, she goes. I wouldn't sing for anyone else,
• 22:12
  Barrow. But the bit where he is made to
• 22:17
  March round and he's just shouting?
• 22:19
  Oh no. And he's that for the Third
• 22:23
  Doctor. That's proper humiliation.
• 22:26
  I think that's where. I think it must have been so
• 22:29
  disorientating for the audience who are so used to the doctor
• 22:33
  being able to fight these things off.
• 22:35
  Well, that's where Gaytus's recollections are so vital
• 22:39
  because he was a child at the time.
• 22:40
  So we're getting the memories of a of a child watching this.
• 22:44
  And he said he like you said there, it was so disturbing to
• 22:48
  see the. Normally resolute.
• 22:50
  Jon Pertwee, you know, humiliated.
• 22:53
  Yes, right, he's just everyone says oh this season he's given
• 22:59
  lots of can't be arsed performances but he isn't.
• 23:03
  He is brilliant here. He's fighting this and you can
• 23:09
  say it feels like he is really battling against this and not
• 23:13
  having it and. I'm convinced that the voice of
• 23:17
  the Great One, that's one of the great vocal performances of
• 23:20
  Doctor Who. Like, talk about Mania.
• 23:24
  I can't. I don't.
• 23:25
  I. Can't think of another.
• 23:26
  Actor that's done it as well. You are not accustomed to
• 23:29
  feeling frightened, I. Don't you?
• 23:31
  Brilliant. You are very wise to be afraid
• 23:35
  of me. See.
• 23:37
  Oh, now go. Go.
• 23:42
  I must have it. I must.
• 23:44
  I must. I must.
• 23:47
  Go, go. No.
• 23:51
  It's superb. Honestly, it's like I'm there.
• 23:56
  Oh, here we go. Hum, hum hum.
• 23:58
  I'm not part of me do. You know, it's very funny, isn't
• 24:02
  it? When all the spiders go, they.
• 24:05
  Start vibrating. I feel like I've enjoyed this
• 24:13
  episode A. Lot more than the last.
• 24:14
  Yeah, well, I think a lot more is actually happening.
• 24:16
  Yeah, it's racing along now. So do you think we should have
• 24:21
  had the great One before now? No, I think you need to save it.
• 24:26
  I think you need to build it up. Well, and they do it in exactly
• 24:30
  the same way they do it in the war games, don't they?
• 24:32
  Remember that you started with Smythe and then you add James
• 24:34
  Bray and then you add. Edward Brayshaw.
• 24:37
  Thank you. And then you have and then you
• 24:39
  add the time. Here you can have.
• 24:41
  What's Lupton, isn't it? First of all, Then the that the
• 24:44
  spider that's stealing with him, then the queen spider and then
• 24:48
  the great one. And when you see the great one
• 24:52
  in that big crystal cave, oh, it's fabulous.
• 24:56
  Fringe City I believe they call it.
• 25:03
  Why is Richard Franklin chanting now?
• 25:05
  I was trying to get him back. Yeah.
• 25:07
  Yeah. So yes, obviously looked and
• 25:12
  went down to the cellar as we've found out, and then went off to
• 25:16
  Metabolis. So they're trying to get them
• 25:18
  back and Sarah Jane back and with the Doctor.
• 25:22
  Buck or oh, Boris, he doesn't like he's on wheels, don't he?
• 25:24
  He. Does.
• 25:26
  Is that because he is? It is because he is.
• 25:32
  Do you think that Barry Letts was wise to use CSO quite as
• 25:39
  extreme as he did? I don't.
• 25:43
  Think he'd have got it made as if he didn't.
• 25:48
  Yeah, exactly. It's, you know, it was a new
• 25:50
  technology and he was a pioneer of it wasn't.
• 25:54
  He pushed it and, you know, used it as much as as he could.
• 25:59
  I don't think there's anything wrong with that, no.
• 26:02
  Do you think it's a success? It's a success as any other CSO.
• 26:07
  I mean if you look at you know what's what's coming before like
• 26:13
  that kitchen in. Dreadful in the green death.
• 26:15
  Yeah, the Green death. I'll think occasionally though,
• 26:18
  it's spot on. You know when Sarah first
• 26:20
  discovers the Exelon city in Death to the Daleks?
• 26:24
  Yeah, that's. Terrific.
• 26:26
  Yeah. So yeah, there are moments where
• 26:29
  it works, but it's moments where they've got time and it's an
• 26:32
  easy, simple shot where it tends to work.
• 26:36
  And it's like you and David were saying on the commentary for
• 26:39
  Underworld that you've got to go through all of this to get to
• 26:44
  where you are now. You've got to to experiment and
• 26:47
  try all these things. And thank God for Barry.
• 26:50
  Let's trying all this stuff and giving it a go and seeing and
• 26:55
  pushing the technology to see what what they could do.
• 27:00
  Yeah, I I do admire it. I do admire it.
• 27:03
  Do you remember that fabulous video we did where he's standing
• 27:06
  in the mock town? And he's explaining how CSI
• 27:09
  works. I love him so much.
• 27:13
  Oh, this is evil Sarah, isn't it?
• 27:15
  Yeah. Or not quite evil, Sarah, but
• 27:17
  not not quite. Right, Sarah.
• 27:22
  Yeah. Did you say that bit a second
• 27:23
  ago? The spider came down from the
• 27:24
  ceiling, was attacking and relighting the bulbs.
• 27:27
  There was 2 scuttling about the floor.
• 27:29
  It feels like it's getting a bit of pace now.
• 27:31
  Yes. All these fights are a bit lame
• 27:36
  though. Yes.
• 27:40
  They haven't really got the room.
• 27:41
  It's a tussle, but when she does the the voice of the spider in
• 27:49
  the next is it the next episode or is it this episode?
• 27:51
  That's the next episode. Isn't it?
• 27:53
  Oh, she mimes that brilliantly. Yeah, Yeah, this.
• 27:57
  Is how we know. Look look at.
• 27:58
  Her. Oh, thank you, everybody.
• 28:01
  Oh, come on, Doctor, I haven't got the key.
• 28:03
  Oh, I have. I mean, so Sarah grabs hold of
• 28:08
  the Doctor and teleports from City of the Spiders to right
• 28:12
  outside the TARDIS. It was, oh, it's dead Easy.
• 28:14
  The Queen showed us how to do it and Doctor Who just goes.
• 28:18
  Sounds legit. Yeah, but he's.
• 28:20
  A bit in the TARDIS. But he's a bit discombobulated
• 28:25
  after seeing the Great One and then and it's the start of the
• 28:30
  radiation. This.
• 28:32
  Getting ISM. You know you couldn't explain
• 28:34
  all of this. There's there's been
• 28:36
  discombobulated and then there's having plot for brains.
• 28:40
  Wilfully stupid. Did you?
• 28:43
  Guys my brains with plot I must go now.
• 28:45
  Well, I mean, that does happen frequently in classical too.
• 28:49
  Did you see Nesca then when the TARDIS dematerialized and she
• 28:52
  came out and? Went oh, is that the last we see
• 28:58
  of Jenny Lev? Yeah, we're done with.
• 29:00
  Times. Oh, so sad.
• 29:05
  I think now I've got a right Hard on for terrible female
• 29:08
  performances in Doctor Who when I watched Orphan 55 recently.
• 29:12
  And Vilma. I just loved her so.
• 29:15
  Much. I love that line where where
• 29:18
  Siri says, Tommy, you're you're normal.
• 29:21
  And he says. No, I'm not.
• 29:22
  I don't want to be like everybody else.
• 29:24
  It's perfect. Well, don't worry guys.
• 29:26
  It's not anything I'd ever say to the peer of you, and I know
• 29:32
  you'd never throw it at me. Oh, I love these things with Is
• 29:39
  it Choji? No, not Choji.
• 29:41
  Yeah, it was Campo. Campo.
• 29:45
  Yeah. The Apple Super.
• 29:48
  No, it's Joji. No, it's.
• 29:50
  It's. Really.
• 29:53
  Campo pep we, Pep we. Walks in and just bows, doesn't
• 29:56
  he? Straight away, you know he's so
• 29:58
  he can. Be very gracious.
• 30:02
  The recognition of old friends is not always an easy one.
• 30:06
  You guys have never apologized for not bringing me a cotton
• 30:09
  scarf. You never brought that's one.
• 30:13
  A great what a great wise man like me.
• 30:18
  Sorry, there's a great ham, I think.
• 30:21
  Yeah. Thank you very much.
• 30:24
  It's a great performance though by Kevin Lindsay, isn't it?
• 30:28
  Yes. And George Cormack here as well.
• 30:31
  Oh, I meant George, call back. I'm so sorry.
• 30:33
  Yeah. Kevin needs to be getting a bit.
• 30:36
  Yeah, OK. It's not just Sarah Jean that
• 30:39
  can't tell that George he's. Oh, hang on.
• 30:44
  Wasn't he from the Time monster? Yes.
• 30:47
  Oh, he was. Fabulous.
• 30:49
  As well, wasn't he? Yeah.
• 30:50
  He's got sort of like a twinkle in the eye, don't he?
• 30:53
  Yes. That was your first question.
• 30:56
  Oh, yeah. Sorry.
• 30:59
  That was rather starting the episode.
• 31:00
  Jesus, we've gone round the house since then.
• 31:04
  Oh, and so he talks about his mentor, doesn't he?
• 31:08
  And he talks about his time up the mounted.
• 31:10
  It really does feel like all the friends of the era are sort of
• 31:13
  are. Coming together, yeah.
• 31:14
  Roaring in. In a In a way, the Doctor Who
• 31:17
  has not really ever done before. I don't even think, and I know
• 31:23
  Lugopolis does pull together some threads from season 18, but
• 31:26
  it's certainly don't pull together different parts of Tom
• 31:29
  Baker's era in the same way. You wouldn't look at Lugopolis
• 31:33
  and think we're getting everything from the 4th Doctor's
• 31:36
  era. No, he won't.
• 31:38
  That grumpy. Ever.
• 31:41
  But you do get something new out of Tom that you've not seen him
• 31:45
  do before, which is that that melancholy and that weight of of
• 31:53
  whatever it is. And that is very of that era of
• 31:56
  him constantly being given new things to do.
• 31:59
  Oh, this lame ass cliffhanger. Don't worry, we'll be seeing
• 32:04
  this halfway through Part 6. Why?
• 32:06
  Doesn't the electric bolts kill him?
• 32:11
  Because of the crystal. Because of magic.
• 32:15
  Don't they say because he's good of heart or something like that?
• 32:17
  They're like the. Evil vibes don't kill him.
• 32:20
  He's innocence that protects him.
• 32:23
  Oh, oh. Just like Mate Yates, compassion
• 32:25
  stops him being killed. Tommy's innocence protects him.
• 32:28
  Then I feel as if we were in the same situation.
• 32:31
  Me and Sy probably wouldn't have a hope.
• 32:32
  But frankly, you might. You might do all right.
• 32:35
  I'm going to start. I'm not so sure about that.
• 32:37
  Watching Paying attention points off Simon.
• 32:40
  Yeah. Comes to summit when I'm.
• 32:42
  Sorry, Sorry. He went down to the cellar.
• 32:44
  You. Can have him back.
• 32:48
  Oh, these dreadful names for the Metabeliacins, or whatever
• 32:51
  They're called Tua He. Was in terror of the autumns.
• 32:57
  Oh, who did you play? On that, it's Professor
• 32:59
  Phillips. Oh, OK.
• 33:03
  Before we out five then can I ask you to do something that we
• 33:07
  have, I know we haven't done so far and that is rank the Barry
• 33:12
  Letts and Robert Sloman stories and we'll start with Fraser.
• 33:21
  Oh, right. What have we got?
• 33:24
  We've got because there's fours that there's.
• 33:28
  Yeah, we've got the Demons, Yes, the Time Monster, the Green
• 33:33
  Death and Planet of the Spiders. Which one I did, I put them in
• 33:41
  when I did me me top 60. That's right that that's been
• 33:46
  now, this is now. Obviously you're allowed to
• 33:48
  change your mind between now and then.
• 33:50
  Obviously the Time monster comes last.
• 33:53
  Oh, signed because. Come, Kronos, come.
• 33:59
  It has. It has.
• 34:02
  It's just strange. It's just weird.
• 34:03
  It's just like it's as if the making Doctor Who for ITV.
• 34:11
  That's brilliant. That's so good, don't you?
• 34:13
  Appreciate Ingrid Pitts Fabulous Jugs.
• 34:20
  Yes is the answer, but. Even me and Sy do with that.
• 34:26
  It's. Just so it's so it's so
• 34:29
  obviously Doctor Who, but so different from everything else
• 34:31
  that it's just really discombobulating.
• 34:35
  Yeah, I always think it the cast are having a brilliant time
• 34:39
  making it, but they just forgot to bring the audience into it
• 34:43
  with them. I see.
• 34:44
  I find that fun, but it's sort of that sort of camp Doctor Who
• 34:48
  that I like, I. Think I think some of the cast
• 34:50
  are having fun. They obviously John Levines
• 34:52
  having fun and what to tell God was he thinks he's having a
• 34:55
  panto, but put he just seems a little bit bored by.
• 34:59
  Everything. He's a bit grumpy at that one.
• 35:01
  Well, Katie Manning. Keep making Tom Titt do new
• 35:04
  things just to keep the plot going for another bit.
• 35:06
  Oh, so it's now slowing downtime and all right, OK, so it's right
• 35:10
  fine. John.
• 35:13
  John. He has a bottle of wine.
• 35:14
  Go do something with her for an episode, please.
• 35:17
  How they thought they'd get away with the design of that time
• 35:20
  detector as well. I mean, seriously.
• 35:24
  Alter. They really were having an off
• 35:28
  day, weren't they? All right, so time monsters at
• 35:31
  the bottom. Is that the same for you as
• 35:33
  well, Si? Oh, definitely.
• 35:35
  I can't stand. So we're in agreement so far.
• 35:39
  Then it would be Planet of the Spiders.
• 35:41
  Oh, Si. No, it'll be the demons.
• 35:47
  I don't like the demons and I'll be quite honest, it doesn't do
• 35:52
  very much for me. I think Pertwee is horrible.
• 35:55
  The Doctor's written badly, the settings iconic.
• 36:00
  But it's one of those stories that I spent my childhood been
• 36:05
  told. It was the best story ever, and
• 36:07
  it's far from the best story ever.
• 36:09
  It's not a favorite. The spiders are there for all
• 36:12
  the seas hire. Yes, I know I put.
• 36:16
  I would put Planet of the Spiders in second place.
• 36:20
  Oh, Fraser. I mean, I'll agree with Simon
• 36:24
  that, you know, the Demons isn't the best Doctor Who story ever.
• 36:28
  I mean, it's the 8th best. Is that right?
• 36:33
  On your list. It came.
• 36:34
  It's #8, yes, and the green death came.
• 36:36
  It's #10. Oh.
• 36:38
  OK. See, I put the Green Death.
• 36:42
  That's probably for a long time. It was my favorite Purpley story
• 36:47
  of all, and it's only just recently been toppled by the joy
• 36:51
  that is Carnival of Monsters. So I think the Green Death is
• 36:56
  absolutely superb. I think it's an era topping Joy
• 37:02
  I. Mean it would be if it wasn't
• 37:05
  for the demons, which just has that little bit extra sparkle
• 37:09
  about it. I think the Green Death is
• 37:12
  magnificent because of, you know, how well it deals with
• 37:16
  Jewel Grant leaving. You know, that is it's up there
• 37:21
  with sort of Victoria's departures, one of the best
• 37:25
  plotted and laid out and developed departures.
• 37:28
  You know, there's nothing sudden about.
• 37:29
  It's not just a sudden like, Oh yeah, I've had, I've had a fax
• 37:32
  from Gallifree. I've got to drop you off home or
• 37:35
  anything like that. It's it's seeded and built on
• 37:38
  and and and worked in and you know the rest of the stories,
• 37:43
  you know very sad, solid and good monsters and and
• 37:46
  everything. But the Demons has got through
• 37:48
  that little bit extra spot where you know it's got Miss Hawthorne
• 37:51
  in it and it's it's got the the chap with the wings I get in the
• 37:56
  five rounds rapid and where. Where did they come, Fraser,
• 37:58
  those two stories in your rankings?
• 38:00
  So Green Death was 10 and the demons was 8.
• 38:04
  So I'm going to suggest that you're rather impressed with
• 38:06
  their writing, given that that's two places apart in your top 10.
• 38:11
  Yeah, yeah. Ordinarily, I would be if it
• 38:14
  wasn't for Time Monster. I'm going to.
• 38:18
  I just. I just.
• 38:18
  Wonder how much Terence laid off the time monster.
• 38:23
  I think Terence was having a week off.
• 38:26
  He just said, well, Barry's going to give me something
• 38:29
  that's decent I don't need to do and it's that that problem of
• 38:34
  when your boss does something and are you going to tell him
• 38:39
  it's shit? Or else very telling is in the
• 38:42
  commentary for The Time Monster. Barry Letts is the most critical
• 38:47
  of all about the writing, about the direction, and about some of
• 38:51
  the performances. So, like he knows that that one,
• 38:55
  it didn't come off. Herons knows because you can
• 38:58
  sense it all. I've just read the book and you
• 39:01
  can sense it all the way through the book that he's thinking, no,
• 39:04
  this is shit. You've read the book.
• 39:08
  The the Time Monster. Book There he is, There he is
• 39:11
  about. The target.
• 39:12
  Yeah. Well, you've read that one.
• 39:15
  That one, yes. Just to throw mine in, I'd go
• 39:22
  tell what controversy. Given we're doing it now, Bottom
• 39:24
  planet, the spiders, then the Time monster, then the demons,
• 39:31
  then the green death, it's just that that last episode.
• 39:36
  Of I must ever agree on anything.
• 39:39
  That last episode of Green Jeff just kills me.
• 39:41
  Joe's departure just kills me every time.
• 39:43
  It's the one time I think the Classic series does an effective
• 39:47
  sort of new series ending. And then the end of the demons,
• 39:51
  though you know the Doctor and Joe go dancing.
• 39:53
  Oh, that's lovely. No, it's.
• 39:55
  Lovely. Don't get me wrong, it's good.
• 39:56
  Bringing you to go for pint. It's, you know.
• 40:01
  The Mayday miracles happened. Again shit all week.
• 40:04
  But let's go for a dance, yeah? And get out of those ridiculous
• 40:09
  clothes, would you wait. I'll cut it there.