Latest / Beheaded / Saint or Charlatan? | Elizabeth Barton

Transcript

Saint or Charlatan? | Elizabeth Barton · Beheaded

0:04
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: This is season one, episode 11.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm Megan Moore.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: And we are gonna be talking about the Nun of Kent today.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: Also known as the Mad Maid of Kent.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: A little bit of a foreshadowing for you.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, also known as Elizabeth Barton.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, another Elizabeth B.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: I like her already.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: I feel like you're gonna be very feel very well related to her.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: I might.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: I'd say L E B and me sitting in a tree.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: H A N G I N G.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: Eight Ooh.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: She just came up with that on the spot.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: That's pretty good.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: It took me, I was like, I don't know what you're spelling.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: I could see like your face trying to get out.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: H A N G I N G.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: First comes the cycled.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: I said I already broke my own.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: My God.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: My God.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: I literally said.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: Can you just start over?
1:02
SPEAKER_00: No, we're not going to because everyone needs to know my frustration.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: I told her before we start, I was like, Megan, honey, love your singing.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: Really do.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: You actually told me I'm not allowed to sing anything.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Very good at it, but I don't think every episode you need to burst into songs spontaneously.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Just some feedback.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's great.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: But I'm sorry.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: I can't believe I lasted four.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: She literally was like, I have no reason to sing on this episode.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, what am I gonna sing about?
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, you lasted, yeah.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: What 49 seconds?
1:35
SPEAKER_00: It was about 30.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Kidding me right now.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we need to just start over.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: No, thank you for listening to me.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: Leave it in so they can see your nuts.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: We have one very, very urgent piece of news to discuss.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: So urgent we waited two weeks to tell everybody.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, in case you've noticed, we've been a little bit off and on of Instagram.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: We are currently banned.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: We are on Instagram.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: The bad girls of Instagram.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: Clearly, we're the bad girls of Instagram.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: The bad girls of the podcast world really.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: And zero intention of breaking rules.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: I just want everyone to know that.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: I feel like this is my trial.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: This is my one like dispute to be able to like get my side of the story out there.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: We're completely innocent.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: We're days away from being hanged.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: This is our I'm like.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: So, okay, here's the story.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, what happened was Megan posted so many naked pictures of herself.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: What?
2:32
SPEAKER_00: I said, stop, Megan.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: I said, No, no, no.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Nobody wants to see it.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Just take them down and she refused.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: Naked pictures of King Henry VIII.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: Or William Wallace.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: If we're gonna see any naked pictures around here, William Wallace is the one.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: In reality, though, our last episode was on Mussolini, the Italian dictator.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Evidently, Instagram does not like me posting pictures of Mussolini because I might be quote unquote sensationalizing death.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: Wait, I thought we were banned for just sensationalizing death overall.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: Was this Mussolini related?
3:08
SPEAKER_01: Mussolini is what triggered it.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: That's what flagged our account.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: Because, okay, I'm very lucky because there's a girl that I work with who used to work for Instagram, and specifically her job was like doing exactly what we're in trouble for, like reviewing accounts, disabling them, disputing them.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: And she has become like my own social media manager, and she basically is just like, just stop what you're like, you're like everything.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Your Instagram is not gonna make it.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: So she actually was a huge help because I put in a dispute of like whoa, whoa, whoa.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: I actually at the time I'm like, I really don't even know what we were disabled for.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: We were confused because Megan Megan told me she's like our Instagram's band.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: I was like, no way, what?
3:52
SPEAKER_00: And we both were looking up like the community guidelines and all these things.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: I thought it was for something with like the promotion, with the colour.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we we thought, well, maybe because we promoted the card, but we didn't, I don't know, do we didn't do something properly.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and then you even took the time to like promote it.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: You're like, okay, well, I'll pay for the promotion.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: So we promoted it on Instagram as like an ad, and that didn't work.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: And then the and then uh eventually they just like del I don't want to say delete, but like removed everything, removed our handle, which really, really sucks because the thing I'm stressing the most is we just made these really cool business cards that we were planning on sharing with people, and especially at like the Renaissance Fair.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like throw them around the rent fair.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just littering the place.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: No, not littering.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: Not literating in a meaningful way.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: In a meaningful way.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: And we have like a cool QR code on the back that you can scan and it'll take you to the Instagram account.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: And now that's like non-existent right now.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it completely shut it down.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but we luckily went to this girl and she reviewed it.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: The first thing she said, like not even knowing the Mussolini thing had happened, she was like, Oh, I think it overall is just sensationalizing death.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Like you guys are promoting and glorifying death.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: You have to either be condemning it or you have to only give the straight facts.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: And like knowing my captions, I'm not just like giving facts.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh I have a little bit of opinions.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: But it wasn't celebratory.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: No, it wasn't celebratory.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe with like just funny, yeah, really funny.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: But then I I don't think like hashtag death, hashtag murder is helping us a lot.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: And I think Perhaps.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: I think that was part of it.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: But then flagged it at least.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so then I disputed it, and she actually really helped because I think she has connections, and I got a response within five days, and they said, sorry, that was a mistake.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: It's a really long time.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: It was a long time of sitting in anticipation.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: Everything is back up.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm stoked.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: We we we finally fit or uh we finally hit a thousand downloads.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: Yes, so we were like, oh, a thousand downloads, woo, we're back, we're on Instagram.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: And then I'm like, I'm gonna repost the Mussolini picture.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: Immediately banned.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: Within less than a minute, disabled again.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, dang it! You think I would learn my lesson?
5:56
SPEAKER_01: Like how's my like fool me once?
6:01
SPEAKER_01: Shame me.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: Fool me twice.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: Shame on you.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah again.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: That was my fault.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: So we're currently down right now.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just seated it again.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: Again, so it's it's not live.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: It will be back probably.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, maybe if there's like a certain amount of infractions, they just remove you altogether.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: We don't know.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm afraid that I like hit my limit of how many they're like, wow, this kid really can't learn her lesson.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: It's gotta be a three-strike rule.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: But they don't tell you why you're banned.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: It's not like this specific content is wrong.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: It just says, like, your content doesn't agree with our policy.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, I get it, don't post pictures of Italian dictators.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: But also, though, kind of censorship, right?
6:39
SPEAKER_00: Like if I'm really quick, if I'm like doing my thesis on World War II, like I'm gonna, like, if I'm doing social media with it, I'm gonna post pictures of Mussolini, I'm gonna post pictures of Hitler.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, these are just things that come with the time period.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: So if they just remove everything of a, you know, image of a dictator, I think that's a little, I don't know.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, this is what I'm told, and I could be wrong, but it's the picture itself gets flagged because it's like reads it or whatever, I don't know.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: And it's not so much like I'm not allowed to post that, however, it automatically gets disabled once you post it, and someone has to manually review it to make sure I'm not promoting like you're not like, oh, I'm a neo-fascist and I I hate exactly whatever party, he's awesome.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: Everyone should go, you know, be like him.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's just a temporary thing until they look at my actual caption and realize it's just like Benito Mussolini was executed on April 28th.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: Just the facts, people.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: We're purely facts here.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: Purely facts.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: We are a very factual podcast if you didn't know.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Everything's accurate.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, so that's what we're dealing with right now.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's good to know.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm about to start an Instagram for my dog.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: I I've I've adopted my dog, what, four months ago?
7:58
SPEAKER_01: He's the cutest.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: When I was in New Orleans, uh, I had Megan watch him, and he loved Megan more than me, which made me sad.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm sure he missed you.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: Sure, he told you that.
8:08
unknown: He did.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: She was sending me pictures of her and Frankie sleeping together, and he was all curled up in her arms, like a smile on his face, literally a smile on his face.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: And like a dog whisperer, that's why.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then when I came home, I was like, don't worry, once like me and Robbie walk through the door and he sees us, he's gonna freak out and like run back to us and love us.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh, he barely cared.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: He was like, Cool.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: But where's the other one?
8:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but where's the other lady I've been hanging out with?
8:33
SPEAKER_00: I was like, No.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: Frank, he loves you.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: His name is Frank Sinatra, and uh, we're putting him on Instagram soon.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: And okay, he's not just gonna be like, Oh, here's my dog, and it's on Instagram.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: He has like a whole theme.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: Like, he's gonna be a very um dapper gentleman.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, he kind of looks like Wishbone.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: He does look like Wishbone, and that's kind of where we got the inspiration because Megan sent me a picture.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: She's like, remember Wishbone?
8:56
SPEAKER_00: She was like, he was such a great character on television, and he taught you all all about classic novels.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: So he's kind of the same thing, but in today's world, he's gonna teach you about like where to find the best old fashions in town and like what cigars he prefers, and it's gonna be books he's reading, and the funny thing he's reading.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: He reads architectural digest, he's a very sophisticated little pup, and he's gonna wear like fancy little costumes and things.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: That's the thing, is I'm I'm like concerned of your investment into these wardrobes that you're preparing for.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: I've only bought like a couple so far.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: He has like a leisurely like robe, uh-huh, which is gonna be for like the pool outdoor scenes, and then he also has like a tiny, it's not a full tux, it's a small thing he wears in his chest that looks like a tux.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: And and the sunglasses.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh yes, there's also sunglasses and it's a cute thing.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: I think it's I think it'll be fun.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: It's not, you know, it's nothing fancy, it's just because he's so sophisticated to show the world.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: Don't dress him up like a dictator so you get banned on Instagram.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: It's true.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: I've learned, I've learned through our mistakes how not to get Frankie banned, but we'll see.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, let us know once you get the handle for him.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we'll I'll promote the handle uh yeah when when he comes out.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, I will keep you all updated once we're up and running on Instagram.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say once we are, because it will happen.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: It will.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: They cannot shut us down, they cannot keep us quiet.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: I think it just adds to our rip.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: We're the bad girls.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you haven't been banned on Instagram twice in a week.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty, pretty impressive.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: So not to, you know, uh pat ourselves on the back too much.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: So we do have wine tonight.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, again, we were sick uh two weeks ago, so we only drank our rum and ginger ale.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: We were sick, so we just drank rum.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: It was simple.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we were so sick, we just drank the rum.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: Um this week we decided again to get a little more in them, so we got this really cool wine.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, Megan did.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: Um it's very prophetic.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: It's called Moon X or Moonx.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: I just want to say, so like when Is it Moon X?
11:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: Moon X.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: I know that when um like when I got the uh Scotch for William Wallace.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: You read it and you were very intentional.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you thought it was all coincidence.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: This was actually coincidence.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Actually coincidence, because I read it right before we started recording, and I was like, whoa, Megan, good job again.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: Like you're really nailing these.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, I don't even I just grabbed it, I don't know.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: So this is a cab um from California 2017, and it says, This juicy, super dense wine is inspired by the onyx blackness of a new moon, a lunar phase occurring when the sun, earth, and moon are all aligned, loaded with intense, uh dark flavors of blackberries, raspberries, jams, uh, and exotic spices with a caramel toast.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Enjoy with any bold dish or just by itself.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: And I thought that was funny because I was like, oh, like, how crazy.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: It's very like mystic and kind of prophetic and it sets this tone for like what we're gonna talk about.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: And she was like, Cool.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: That was a sign.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: I like this.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: The label is like this like deep, like red and black label that looks like uh kind of the moon craters.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm a I'm a huge fan of this.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: You buy it based off of labels.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: I buy based off of the characteristics, the density, the wine.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: She looks like the legs, it was less than ten dollars.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: So that's very important.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: Um I actually I do have a wine book.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you know this about me.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: Do you know this about me?
12:22
SPEAKER_00: No.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: I have a wine book, and it's like this cool, like red leather-bound wine like things that attract you, yes.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, as are most things that I have.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, no, but the on the cover is like a um, it's almost like three-dimensional, like it pops out a little bit, and it's of the god Dionysus, and it's like it's like him holding wine, and inside you it's like two pages per wine.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: So you put the label in there, and then you put like Oh, you've seen it, right?
12:52
SPEAKER_00: I do know this.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: I've shown you that.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, it took me until the very end of your description.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: I realize I see this book like every single day.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh really?
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Tell me more.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I put the label in it.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: You can take that label if you want.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: I might take the and I usually just baste it based on how hard it is to take off the bottle.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: Like, if it's a hard label to peel, I don't take it.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: But ooh, this is a very peely.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, do you hear that?
13:12
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, ooh.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you ripped it! Big tear.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: No, I can save it.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: But I take the label and I stick it there, and I it's cool because I can look back and I'd be like, this is the night that I had this wine and I had it with Megan, and these are the main characteristics.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: You're destroying this label, just stop it.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: No, it's perfect.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: It's coming off real easy.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, but okay, as you keep ripping it.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: No, I actually got it.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Look at it I promise my.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: And what are you gonna do with it right now?
13:38
SPEAKER_00: No, I told you.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: No, I know.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: But literally, there's been times where I've been like drunk at weddings, and I go around and I take the bottles from the wine and I stick it in my clutch.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: Let's tape that again.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, but no, it's history.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: It's like this is the things you're gonna remember when you're old.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna look back at your wine book and be like, oh yeah, I remember Moon X the night that we podcasted about Elizabeth Barton and then drink from the bottle.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: Look, look, look, look, look.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you took the label off and the bottle is so full.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Look at this.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: All right.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: It's wine we don't.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: I might post that, you could post that on our Instagram.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, if we get our Instagram back.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wait, we don't have our Instagram.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: Instagram gonna pose is not gonna be the ripped off wine label, but we're gonna be able to do that.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a conversation piece.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna we're gonna talk about this.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we are talking about Elizabeth Barton.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: Elizabeth Barton.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: And um, I don't think a lot of people know who she is, which is totally okay.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, I didn't know about her until recently, I think.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, and so far, you know, obviously the tutor um stories we've covered, they've been some of the smaller characters in Tudor history.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, so again, we we know that all these big names are coming at some point.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: You don't know when yet.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: But for now, we're just kind of easing into the time period with some of these other ones to set the tone of what was happening during this time.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: So she very much contributes to that era of like, what was the time like?
15:00
SPEAKER_00: What were people believing?
15:01
SPEAKER_00: Why was she so bad?
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Understanding the greater context.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like we're on a little bit of a roll after Margaret Poole of these women who were in the Tower of London and these women who are being hanged or executed.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: And I don't think they're they have like enough of a voice in history.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: So Elizabeth Barton was born in 1506 in Aldington, which is right outside of Canterbury.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, and when she was about 19, is when she was uh working as a servant for a farmer in Aldington.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: So what was his name?
15:36
SPEAKER_00: You have his name.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: Probably a Thomas or a William.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: It was like a Henry, a Thomas, a William.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Thomas Hobb.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: Thomas Hobb.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: Um and so she was working for him as a servant, and she had no education, really little intellect in general.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: Like she was illiterate.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, and the only thing that was again that happened to her at this point in her life being 19 on this farm was she fell very ill.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: So she was to the point where she was so sick um that she started just being delusional, like she started becoming epileptic.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, but one thing that happened was when she went in these epileptic fits, which kind of is reminiscent of like our seas or our episode two um Oh with the mutant.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Salem witch trials episode.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, once you become epileptic, people pay attention to you.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: But I'm sure, like, especially back then too, they didn't really have the medical science to know what was going on.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: What were these actual fits she was having?
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Of course, the like first thing people go to is it's either a religious type of like trance or some like demonic like sorcery type of thing.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: Lucky for her, she fell into the right side.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: She was yeah, they thought that she was uh uh getting these messages from angels and from God and they were speaking through her.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because she wouldn't just um you know have epileptic episodes, but she went into these trances where she all of a sudden would speak very eloquently, because again, remember that she's not a very educated woman nor speaks like very proper.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: So all of a sudden she like went into these um trances and spoke in a very eloquent way, in a very noble way and virtuous way.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: Very poetic.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: But she would be in these trances for days too.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: Where all of a sudden her language was very flowery and everything she had to say just spoke of goodness and you know, all these very good Catholic values at the time.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: So that's why people were like, This is strange.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, she's not just having these fits or freaking out or speaking nonsense.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: She's becoming, I don't know, one with the angels.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: She's all of a sudden speaking for higher power.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: She's starting to give prophecies too.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: And this is a girl who's never left her little town before.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was one thing that came up was uh, you know, again, she was um she lived in the same town her whole life until 19, and she had knowledge of things outside of her town.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: Like she knew of certain things that were going to happen or had happened in the next town over.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: And that's very uncommon at this time when people again don't have much news or much exchange of information.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Um so they immediately were like, Wow, she's blessed.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: So hashtag blessed.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: Hashtag blessed.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, Edward Baching, who is a monk and kind of like a spiritual advisor at the time, he starts like getting attention her way and he brings her to the the parish priest and is like, look at this prodigy we have.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: Look at this girl who is giving these prophecies and going into these religious trances and God is speaking through her.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: And and the biggest uh thing that happened up until that point was that she predicted the death of one of the children in the household she was serving.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so which we were discussing this beforehand, we're like, well, wasn't the kid just sick?
18:50
SPEAKER_00: And she was like, That kid's gonna die.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, think about it though, like 15 early 1500s, the odds of someone actually dying is pretty good.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like if you go to a psychic these days, they speak probably in very like vague terms.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: So she's like, Oh, someone somewhere close to you is going to die.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: And in that era, shit.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: That's 80% of the people I know are gonna die when I'm gonna do it.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: Once a week, someone dies.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that was the thing that kind of again like had uh her parish priest say, Whoa, like we have to tell our archbishop again how special this woman is.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and so then the archbishop of Canterbury also is believing her and like go her at this point because people could have thought like she was more on the demonic side of everything.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: But they believe that she needs to become a nun in a convent, and so again, she's only 19 at this time.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, even at that point, our the archbishop had like appointed a commission to investigate her.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: So they didn't say, Oh, okay, we believe you, parish priest, like we're gonna make her a nun.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, he literally sent a troop of people to be like, Okay, go find out what you can what you can about this girl, like observe her, see what prophecy she has.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: And they believed and they believed her.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: Everyone was like, Oh my gosh, this woman is so virtuous, like you can feel it, you can feel her aura, the things she says, like you just know that she is meant for greater good.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: And she's starting to get popular at this point, so it's kind of like the hot gossip.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh, who's singing now?
20:18
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm not, I'm not.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: It was that was a little that was a little ditty.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: It was just a fancy way of saying diddy.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, so she's a nun, and she's starting to get crowds to come and actually listen to her, and now she's starting to kind of travel around and give these prophecies, and she's so adamant that if if she were taken to this like random old chapel where there's a Virgin Mary, she could cure herself of what I'm assuming was epilepsy at the time.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: I think so.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, but she would get these quote unquote fits.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, and she said that, well, I can go take me to the Virgin Mary and I will be cured.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, and she says this whole like you know, do we do you have the quotes for that by chance?
21:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't, but but she basically gave this like whole speech about her being cured of her sins and um and how the Virgin Mary cured her, and then everyone just believes her, like, oh wow, she is cured now.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: She's an influencer, duh.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: Basically an inf an influencer of the 1500s.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of proof enough to the to the public that she was someone, again, to be reckoned with because they'd heard so much about her, and now here she is in front of everyone, just proving, like, oh, I am here to get cured.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: Lo and behold, I am cured by the Blessed Virgin.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: And also, I mean, this is a servant who's getting attention from archbishops and crowds and crowds of people.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: It reminds me, like, obviously not in the same way because he was way wicked, but of Russ Butin.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you know, because that's exactly how he got our Romanov episode.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so he got his start that exact same way.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: Obviously.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he was more of an unruly character in his community where she was very, like, uh, you know, virtuous and pious.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, but same kind of trajectory.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but she was also illiterate.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: They're both from like the country.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: They're like, okay, like people are listening to me when I have something to say.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: The more important I sound, the more important I'm treated, blah blah.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: So they both had this like kind of rise to fame of like, you know what?
22:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of cool being the mystic.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, I love some of these little stories of when she was at the convent, um, they would say that her door, her cell door would open up in the middle of the night on its own, and it was God opening the door to go and have a conversation with her.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't wind.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: No.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: No.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: No.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, she also said that she got letters in gold ink from angels, and the monks at this convent were saving all of these pieces of evidence, and they were saving all of the letters, and everyone, again, just truly believing all of it.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, they actually ended up writing a book, Edward Baching.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: Again, her spiritual advisor, who I feel like is kind of like her like stage manager at this point.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: Like the manager.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the manager who's like getting her out in the town and getting her name out there.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: He's like, Okay, Elizabeth, this is how we're gonna get you.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why he talks like that.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: He's a manager.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: He's a manager.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, this is what we're gonna do.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna we're gonna write a book.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna do a book tour now.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: After we write this book, you're gonna go on tour.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, they make 700 copies of this book.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, I might be jumping ahead a little quick.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Quick question, and I don't know if you know this.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: Was this before or after the printing press?
23:33
SPEAKER_00: This was before the printing press.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: Before.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: So they made 700 copies of the book.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: Gutenberg by hand, by printing.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's actually a big deal.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: Calligraphy.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: That's a lot.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like if you're an agent or publisher, whatever you want to call it in this day and age, like if I didn't have so much faith in you, I'd be like, we're gonna write five copies of your book and see how that goes in this illiterate town that we live in.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: Um but they made 700.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: That's a commitment.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: I I realize I'm jumping the gun a little bit to down the line, but basically those books were destroyed.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, much later, um, which kind of makes me skeptical, like, were there any books in the first place?
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: But they do say later, and we'll again get into this, but uh, they do say later that all copies conveniently were destroyed.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: Destroyed.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: Little shadow of the wind for you.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: But basically, like over the next 10 years, her visions are just becoming bolder and bolder.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: And when I say that, we're in the period right now where Henry VIII is, we've talked about this a few times, but he is with Catherine of Aragon, and he is trying to divorce her to marry Anne Boleyn.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: And she is a Catholic nun, and she is becoming very outspoken on her opinions on this.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: So much so that the Archbishop bring, you know, he makes the king, Henry, aware of this, who gets Sir Thomas More and Bishop Fisher, who we've talked about before.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, that was Richard Roos Roos's master, master of the house, um, gets them involved.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: And hey, go go find this chick.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: Tell me what's going on.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Because she's starting to say some blasphemous, treasonous things about Henry and his marriage.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: And so, and this is um, well, because she kind of met everyone.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: She met um Wolseley, uh, King Henry VIII, Thomas Moore, Fisher.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Which think about that.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Like coming from this like little servant girl and meeting these huge figures, that's like meeting the president.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: Celebrities.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, but this was about uh three years after she started having vision.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: So 1528 is when she started meeting with them.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: And uh at first they they liked her because this was like, and this is prior, okay.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna rewind a little bit, but this is prior to him wanting to divorce Catherine and wanting to marry Anne Boleyn.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: Um she is speaking about like she's warning against heresy, she's warning against rebelling against the church, and this is when King Henry VIII is very much trying to stamp out Lutheranism.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: So, first, before they even say, like, oh, she's being treasonous, first they're like, oh, this girl's great.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, she also hates Lutheranism.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: She's not for Reformation, like, we don't, you know, like any of those things quite yet.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, so they were all about her when they met her in 1528, but that's when um tides turn a couple years later, like about 1532, is when she starts to be at odds with Henry.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: And that's when they start saying, Yeah, well, you're now you're kind of treason.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: And this is right in the thick of Anne Boleyn.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: So um, Anne Boleyn marries King Henry VIII in 1533.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: So they are courting, and Henry is thick in the middle of trying to get divorced from his first wife.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, she's she says, um, you want to read a very good quote.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: I love this word.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: So basically, again, she had met with Henry um a couple of times, but the probably the final time that she met with him, she's basically saying, like, hey, there's all these bad things um that are going to come to you.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: Um and I'll read the quote, but she basically says, You're going to die, there's going to be a plague on your kingdom.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, God is no longer going to recognize you as a monarch.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: And one of the like well most well-known quotes she says to him is, Um, you should no longer be king of this realm and should die a villain's death.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Which is, you know, to someone like King Henry VIII, who who already is such a paranoid person and put so much stock into these types of things, I mean, that must have really freaked him out.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: That's such a good point you make because he was so he was such a suspicious, superstitious person to begin with.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: And I it makes me really wonder like, did he actually believe at all that what she was saying was real and and he just didn't like it?
27:47
SPEAKER_01: Or did he actually think that she was a liar and fake?
27:53
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: I know what we know about King Henry VIII, I feel like he's just got a lot of skeletons in his closet and will do whatever he thinks is gonna benefit him in some way.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure it was just more of like a hey, that's not cool.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: You gotta shut up now.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: Striking a little too too close.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, and in return, Henry actually what he did was he got his agents, uh, people on his side, to start accusing her of things as well.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: So again, they like her when they first meet her a couple years ago, like, hey, great, you're speaking out against uh Lutheranism and all these newfangled things.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Then once he's ready to switch sides, he says, actually, you know what, you are mentally ill.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: You can't have a mentally ill woman running around prancing and raving.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: Like you are mentally ill.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: He even um accused her of also like having sexual relationships, like, ah, you're not as virtuous as what you know people might think.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: She's a nun.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: But it's kind of funny to think of a young nun.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we were talking about that because I feel like so many of these um characters we've talked about are so different than what you think.
28:57
SPEAKER_00: Like you think, oh, Salem witch girls, like young, sexy girls.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: No, they were old women.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you think, like, oh, this nun who was executed.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: Old yeah no, she was she was in her 20s.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: Like she was probably a sexy little thing who's like, I'm a virgin.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: We don't know that.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, Thomas Cromwell is put on a mission to destroy every copy of those books that I mentioned.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: So they say no copies exist.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: Um but they are really starting to get hot on her trail now, right?
29:28
SPEAKER_01: Um they and it's not just her, they're starting to target anyone who was promoting her, which is funny because Bishop Fisher and Sir Thomas More for a while, because you know they are strong Catholics, were really believing in what she was saying for a while.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, and they've kind of vouched for her.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh, you know, there might be these rumors about this girl, like, you know, maybe saying she's a false prophet, blah blah.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: However, like we've met her, like we understand who she is.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: She's a very virtuous woman.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: So they were very much on her side until they felt the pressure from King Henry VIII, who was like, actually, we don't like this girl, we think she might be treasonous.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: So that brings us to 1533 when she was finally arrested.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, I have the quote here actually.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: So Henry VIII is starting to arrest anybody he thinks is involved, including John Fisher and Thomas More, were on the I'm not gonna say the chopping block for this, but they were in prison.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: Their names were basically in the bill of people um listed for that.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: And so then basically he just denied any participation in all of it in the end.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: It was like, no, no, no, no, no.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, as soon as she started saying bad things about you, I actually stopped believing.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: That's when I knew she was no good.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: And Fisher and Moore got very, very lucky because they actually got signed off of the bill as in okay, maybe these guys shouldn't be arrested.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know about how lucky in the end, but yeah, for the time.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: But isn't that so funny?
31:04
SPEAKER_01: Because eventually they're both going to have to be episodes on beheaded.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Um not to spoil your fun, but they're both gonna be on this fight.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't so long after this either.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: So they almost got the axe just by believing in Elizabeth Barton.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, it's almost like Henry had it out for them real bad.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: But they gosh, they almost got away.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: Almost just ran at that point.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: Like, oh shoot, this place is scary.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: It was your window.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: You should you should have known.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: You get one out, you get one chance.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: Um in total, there were um six people, five people who got arrested.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, it was Edward Boking, again, the monkslash spiritual advisor.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: He's the one that published the books, right?
31:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes, he published the books and basically was like her stage manager.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, Richard Masters, he was the parish priest.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: He was the one that Boking um was like, hey, you gotta check out this girl, you gotta get her in your nunnery.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: This girl's awesome.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, again, a big supporter.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: And then Richard Rigsby and Hugh Rich, they were both wardens at the friary that they were at.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: So um, really, anybody who was like supporting her through all of this, they all get arrested and they start.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, we don't really know if there was a trial, which is funny if there's a no trial.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's no trial, but they were questioned very heavily.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they were questioned.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, it wasn't known if they were tortured or not, is the thing.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: So some people said, Oh, they were able to come to their own conclusions and confess without torture.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: Other people were like, no, no, pretty sure they were tortured to say something, um, to get, you know, something out of them.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: They had to have been.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, but there was no trial.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: This was an incident where I I don't know how you pronounce this, but the bill of attainer.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: Sounds right.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: Right.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: It was basically a bill that nullified the rights of people who were um attained in prison.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: So you didn't have to have a trial.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: Like once you were stripped of your rights, like, ah, we think you're treasonous, and there's really no question.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: You were stripped of your rights, you didn't have a trial, which is such a funny loophole.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: Isn't that so weird?
33:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, going back to what you were saying though, so um about if they were tortured or not, yeah.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: There is a book.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, Peter Ackroyd wrote a book just called Tutors, not the Tutors, but just Tutors.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, and he his like whole argument was he thinks that she was put on the rack and was stretched.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: Um but isn't it like, wouldn't you think that there would be some documentation on that, especially that she's a woman and a nun.
33:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:36
SPEAKER_01: And this is also all taking place in the Tower of London.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: They were arrested in the Tower of London.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, I feel like that's something that there should be more documentation on.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: And there wasn't.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: There was kind of an intentional cover-up as to whether or not, again, they were tortured or not.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, and Thomas Cromwell is the one who's in charge at this point, and he was really the only one that was stepped forward and said, Okay, we got a confession out of them.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: So Okay, something about her confession though cracks me up.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: So in the middle of her being questioned, she says that she has one final vision.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: And this vision is saying that God willed her that she never actually had any revelations and it was all in her head.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: But like, okay, that's a little ironic.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, oh no, but God just told me it wasn't actually him.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: This was actually him telling me that.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: This is finally him saying that those weren't real.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: And they they believed it.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: They were like, okay, yes, child, that you're right.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: All of that God is right right now, that was all fake.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: That I don't know.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: It sounds like a Thomas Cromwell manufactured thing.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: He's like, I have the perfect thing for you to say in your contrast.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: I feel like she just got lawyer super hard on this.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: And again, this girl doesn't really have much formal education.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: She's like, uh-oh, okay.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh does this mean you're not tortured anymore?
34:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, so she was forced to confess.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: Again, Thomas Cromwell was the only one who said he heard his act the actual confession, but what she had to do after was she had to go around and then publicly confess.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: So basically, she had to stand up at uh where was the location?
35:09
SPEAKER_01: It was at St.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Paul's.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: St.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: Paul's Cross.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: And they actually built a temporary platform for her and the other men who were arrested with her um to stand up in front of.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: It was a crowd of 2,000 people.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: And they actually like made seating and everything.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: It was like a full-on like audience, like, okay, say say your speech now.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: No, no, go ahead.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, I have to say I have her speech here.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'll read it.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, so at St.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: Paul's Cross, it was that November 23rd, 1533.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: So she made her full confession, and again, there's over 2,000 people there.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: So she says, I, Dame Elizabeth Barton, do confess that I, most miserable and wretched person, wretched person, have been the original of all this mischief.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: This mischief.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: I love mischief.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: That's a great word.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: That's not what she said.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: Okay, continue.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: And by my falsehood, have grievously deceived all these persons here and many more, whereby I have most grievously offended Almighty God and my most noble sovereign, the King's Grace.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: I just feel like someone wrote that for her.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, did she really write that?
36:16
SPEAKER_00: Little PR 101 for Elizabeth.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: They're like, Yay, you kind of overstepped.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Here's uh your apology note.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh you were cheating in baseball, here you go.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: So this was the first round of their confession tour.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: Henry is trying to retract all of the slander that she put out there.
36:32
SPEAKER_01: So knowing that she's still under arrest, knowing she's up for execution, he then parades her around the whole country, the whole kingdom, and has her repeat the same speech in front of multiple crowds.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it's not enough to just give one.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: You're like, hey, okay, now here start your tour.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's part of the punishment.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: Probably.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: Which is funny because the humiliation of it.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: Again, she went around so many places speaking at the beginning where she was starting to rise to fame, and so now it's her and her manager, her manager going around.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: Manager, yeah, but now they're in trouble.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: Actually, we um we realized she's just crazy.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: At this point, she's 28 years old.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, only 28.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: 28, younger than me.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: And uh again, the uh there was no trial, but she was officially charged with treason, um, essentially conspiracy against the throne, and just essentially being a false prophet.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: They're holding them all at Tower of London on April 20th, 1534.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: They dragged them from Tower of London to Tyburn, which is what, like two miles away.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: It's like two, two and a half miles away.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: It's in Middlesex County.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: That's less than a 5k.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: That's not bad.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: No, that's not bad.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, and she has this kind of like a sad speech on the scaffold.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: Um she's not being beheaded.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: Again, beheadings were really reserved for nobles and royalty because it was a quick and like So glamorous.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: A glamorous way to die.
38:03
SPEAKER_00: I would Why wouldn't she want everyone to see the inside of your neck?
38:06
SPEAKER_01: I think I'd prefer, you know, I think I'd prefer to be hanged.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, a hundred percent.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: Especially if your neck just breaks right away.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it just seems less gruesome, even if you strangle there for a while.
38:14
SPEAKER_00: I just I could I just couldn't handle the the blood.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, obviously, yeah.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: And I okay, I don't want to get like super gruesome with the show, but this is what the show is about.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I've heard, and I heard this when I was young, so it's always like stayed with me when I was in like pre-middle school and I first learned about like public executions and whatever.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: Um they say that after you're um decapitated, that you're essentially alive for like several seconds because I think like up to five to seven seconds.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: I think yeah, five to seven seconds.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: I've always heard seven, like the neurons in your brain are just like firing and you're going crazy, but you're very like aware of what's happening and you can kind of like see everything and comprehend everything for a few seconds.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: Like their eyes will keep moving afterwards.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: So looking around.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Freaks me out beyond all belief.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: Like to know that the last second that you're alive, you're literally just so aware of the fact that your head's flailing everywhere.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: That just scares me so much beyond anything in my life.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: It's so hard because it's like you can't ever ask someone who's been decapitated.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: You really can't.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
39:19
SPEAKER_01: How does that feel?
39:20
SPEAKER_01: Are you okay?
39:21
SPEAKER_01: But like, I also think, yes, you might technically be alive.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: However, I don't think your brain is working in the same way to like process the pain and what's happening.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure, but whatever's going on, I wouldn't say is good.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: I also think of like, okay, five to seven seconds seems like a short time, but also think of like when you're on like a drop in a roller coaster.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: And like when you're watching that roller coaster on like a video or TV, it looks like I'm just gonna use Splash Mountain, for example.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay, first of all, real quick, we've talked about this.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: You're such a wuss with roller coasters that it's not scary.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: But go ahead, sure.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying Splash Mountain.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: Stick with me for a second.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: I have a point.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: So when you see it like on a video, like, oh, that drop seems so short, and it seems like just a few seconds.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: But then when you're actually doing it, you have that like holy shit moment, and it feels like it's lasting for like 30 seconds.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: And Splas Mountain's like a second and a half.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: Imagine six of those with your head apart from your body.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: I can't even like comprehend.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: So that's the part that freaks me out.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: Is like I feel like with strangulation, and again, I don't know, I've never been strangled, but I feel like it's like a like okay, you're you know, you're there, you're passing out, you're not really coherent, like oxygen gets cut off to your brain, and you just kind of pass out.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's fine.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: I don't want this.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: But that's fine.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Are you kidding me?
40:44
SPEAKER_00: I just don't want to lose any body parts.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't want this awful moment of being being like, I am soaring through the crowd, and I see everything, and this is awful.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: I can't know.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: But we never know if that's what it's like.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, we don't know, but okay, we need to get a psychic.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: We need to have them communicate to someone.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: Or a scientist.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: Or a scientist.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: No, we need like a psychic who can talk to someone who's been beheaded.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: Bring us Margaret Pohl, who had a botched beheading.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: The botched is even worse.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: That's like 30 seconds.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, okay.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: Um she's on the scaffold.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm I want to read what she says on the scaffold.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she has another quote here.
41:23
SPEAKER_01: She says, and it's just like very sad.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: I am the cause not only of my own death, which I have richly deserved, but of the death of all those who are going to suffer with me.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: Alas, I was a poor wretch without learning, but the praises of the priests about me turned my brain, and I thought I might say anything that came into my head.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: Now I cry to God and implore the king's pardon.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: So she's saying the priest turned her brain.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: So she's basically kind of like admitting to like I became such a celebrity, and I just said whatever people wanted.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: These are also the guys who are standing right next to her, also about to get hanged.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: So she's like, sorry about them, but also kind of their fault.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: They got in my head and these they made me believe I could say whatever I wanted.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: It really just, you know, made me so cocky.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: But she admits that she was faking it.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: She does.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: But again, who knows in these final moments?
42:17
SPEAKER_00: Like if you're saying things to protect other people, if you're just saying it because you think maybe, maybe I'll be spared if I just say what they want to hear.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, who knows?
42:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe she truly believed these things were real.
42:27
SPEAKER_00: Maybe she thought, okay, it's finally my time to fess up before I die into the other world.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
42:33
SPEAKER_00: But that's uh inconclusive.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: Did she have visions?
42:38
SPEAKER_01: We don't know.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: Uh Saint or Charlatan is what I say.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: Saint or Charlatan.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, she even though she was hanged, her head was still impaled upon.
42:50
SPEAKER_01: Not impaled?
42:51
SPEAKER_01: No.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: It was taken off and then impaled on a stick.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so after she after she's already dead, they took her head, um, yeah, impaled it on a on the London Bridge, which, fun fact, she was the only female to ever have her head on the London Bridge.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's that's kind of badass.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, after after all um of the women that have been beheaded in the Tudor era or been killed, all of a sudden it's like this one, this nun who's 28 is your biggest threat.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: Like she's the one you want to show to everybody.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: I have a theory as to why.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: Because other women who were killed, who are executed, and I'm just thinking of like queens, they were they were arrested and executed more for like infidelity.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like things for being a queen, and I think crimes that necess not necessarily everybody could take up on.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, they could all be treasonous, but uh Elizabeth did something that like what if someone else had the same idea in their head, like, wow, well, look how much attention this girl.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she speaks out against the king and says reformation's bad.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: Again, it's all about setting the example, and that's why they Would put their heads up in spikes.
44:01
SPEAKER_00: Right.
44:02
SPEAKER_00: And didn't we read um just before we started uh recording, we were reading something that said the day they asked the noble people to sign um the petition basically like saying that they're with the Reformation, that they're with King Henry, like denying the Catholic Church.
44:18
SPEAKER_00: The day that they asked them to do that was the same day, April 20th, 1533, um, that they killed Elizabeth Barton and all of her uh it can't be a coincidence.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: So they think it was very strategic, like, okay, in the morning, we're gonna have these very public executions, we're gonna put Elizabeth's head on a spike, we're gonna put everyone else like around the wall of London, and then we're gonna ask everyone, like, so ready to sign.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: And what this oath was, for those um who may not be aware, it's basically um recognizing Henry VIII as the head of the Church of England and Supreme Ruler.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: Supreme ruler and agreeing that he was in his right to divorce Catherine and he's now married to Anne Boleyn.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, and anybody who didn't sign that oath foreshadowing some of these figures that we're looking at getting executed, um, they were put to death.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's treasonous.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, so her body after this uh very public execution, so her head was put on the spike, her body was buried in the Newgate Bridge, which is um like the gate of the tower or the London not I say, did I say Newgate Bridge?
45:26
SPEAKER_00: London Bridge.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: No, her London London Bridge was where her head was, but her body, like Oh, I don't know where her body was.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: It was in um like in Newgate.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: So Newgate's like the gate of the London Wall.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: So it would there was a church there called the Greyfriars Church at the gate.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:43
SPEAKER_00: And that's where that's where her body.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: We talked about it.
45:47
SPEAKER_00: We're like, okay, in our off season, we're gonna go to all these places, and we're like, okay, but we can't really afford to go to all these places.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: So what if we just go to like Tempe Town Lake and put like a backdrop that looks like London Bridge, and we're like, so this is the Thames.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: Speaking of someone faking it to make, like fake it to make it, and going around.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: In honor of Elizabeth Barton, we're just gonna pretend like is that the Tower of London behind us?
46:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: We were well, we were watching another documentary where a girl was like, Okay, I'm in London right now, and we're talking about the on this day in history and two-do executions, and we're like, that looks like Arizona behind her.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, there's like succulence and cactus in the back.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't know if you're in London.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: So we might pull that same gig and No, we are honest people.
46:29
SPEAKER_00: No, but we'll be like funny about it.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: Like it's very clearly Tempy Town Lake, and we're like, oh, it's foggy day here in London.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, but um, so so she was buried.
46:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, and basically her legacy is very much controversial to this day.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, obviously, it's kind of comes down to like a religious dispute, but in the Catholic Church, like she's still kind of legendary.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, Catholics kind of still believe, like, she's a nun of Kent.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's a nun of Kent.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, she spoke out um against Henry, against the Reformation.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: She always like kind of held true to her guns, even though she confessed at the end.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: But they think it's just out of confusion and exhaustion and you know, not wanting to die.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: So, in um kind of Catholic writings, like they believe that she was legitimate, or at least believed herself to be legitimate.
47:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then obviously on the Protestant side, they're like, that girl was a religious maniac, she was hysterical, she was an epileptic.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: So this whole thing is, you know, did she tell the truth?
47:28
SPEAKER_01: They forced her to a confession, but was that confession genuine?
47:32
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
47:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so again, to this uh day, you know, historians debate, and it's mostly along kind of the religious lines.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but again, as I said before, sure Saint or Charlatan, we don't know.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: Which leads us to a segment that wasn't a song.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: That was just a dilly.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: No, okay.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: It's a dilly, it's not a song.
47:51
SPEAKER_01: There's a difference.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, we were really talking about like, okay, supposedly she was on the rack.
47:58
SPEAKER_01: And at what point do you just give in?
48:01
SPEAKER_00: You just say, you know what, throw it in the towel, like I'm just gonna come to it.
48:05
SPEAKER_01: So you do hear these stories of people who refuse, refuse to say what they want them to say.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, we have to make this a little bit fun.
48:14
SPEAKER_01: So, yes, it would be easy to say, like, what type of torture device I think I would give in very quickly.
48:19
SPEAKER_00: But almost any torture device, really.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: I'd be so anything with my fingernails, anything with breaking, stretching, burning, cutting, nope, nothing to do with that.
48:28
SPEAKER_01: Poking, tickling, like I'm done.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: Nothing.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: But to make it a little bit more fun, we're gonna call this moment of truth, and we're gonna talk about what modern day type of torture would it take for you to just give in.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, what's your breaking point in modern society where you're like, oh my god, screw it, just here's my confession.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't care if it's true or not.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: Just here.
48:49
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I was faking it.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, what is your moment of truth?
48:54
SPEAKER_01: Mine, I thought about this.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: Mine would be taking away carbs and cheese.
49:01
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: You laugh now.
49:04
SPEAKER_01: No, I tried keto too.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: I know you and I get it.
49:07
SPEAKER_00: Have you tried keto?
49:08
SPEAKER_00: No, keto allows cheese.
49:10
SPEAKER_01: Keto allows kids.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: So you might have all the cheese in the cheese.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: I tried keto for about a month.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: I hated it.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: But you're right, that my only saving grace was keto, I could eat as much cheese as I wanted.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't mind that.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm a cheese cheese.
49:21
SPEAKER_01: But imagine if they take away your cheese.
49:23
SPEAKER_01: Okay, what is it?
49:24
SPEAKER_01: And your okay, dairy and carbs.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: No, thank you.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: And I know there's people out here.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: No, thank you.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: I know we have people who are listening who are like, uh, I do that.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: I have so much respect for you.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: I like imagine no pasta, no pizza, no.
49:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm very much like a cheat day person, so I feel like if I ever did anything like that, I'd be like, okay, five or six days out of the week, I could get back with no dairy, no carb, whatever.
49:50
SPEAKER_00: And then like two days I would go ham.
49:53
SPEAKER_00: And just but you wouldn't get that.
49:55
SPEAKER_00: I know.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: I would think that's about a month before I give in.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: A month is a lot.
50:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I thought you I thought you were gonna say the opposite.
50:04
SPEAKER_01: I thought you were gonna be like, a month, I could go for two years.
50:06
SPEAKER_00: Hell no, no.
50:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm like I said, cheat day girl.
50:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm a seven-dayer.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: My cheese.
50:11
SPEAKER_01: I love my carbs.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I would probably be at the same breaking point.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: And especially knowing you're never gonna have it again, like it's just taken away.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
50:19
SPEAKER_01: I can Alright, moment of truth, Elizabeth.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
50:24
SPEAKER_00: For me, I okay, I am like I'm on the same page with you in terms of food, but more than food, I am just so not a morning person.
50:33
SPEAKER_00: Like oh, I know that about you.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, I am just I wake up when I wake up.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, for work it's different because I gotta wake up for work, but like on my days off, like let me sleep.
50:43
SPEAKER_00: Don't talk to me for a very long time, like, leave me the fuck alone.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm a crazy person in the morning.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: So for me, like it would be very easy to reach my breaking point because I feel like all you would have to do is wake me up at like 4:30, like consistently back to back, like every morning.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: And don't even just like wake me up, like, don't splash water on me.
51:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, all you have to do is like start just talking to me and giving me a list of like things to do.
51:08
SPEAKER_00: Like, say I was in a like a prison, and they're like, All right, 4 30 in the morning.
51:13
SPEAKER_00: The first thing you're gonna do is you're gonna scrub your whole cell, and then after that, we're gonna take you down to this, and you're gonna make sure this is clean and take you to the I like You know that's like prison, you know they do that, right?
51:22
SPEAKER_01: Is that is that what prison's like?
51:24
SPEAKER_01: Is that what they do?
51:24
SPEAKER_01: From what I'm told.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: But like, yeah, you just have like an endless task list that's just like barked at you like first thing in the morning.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: Like, I can kind of like okay, if they just splashed me and woke me up, whatever, I'll get over it.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: Just don't talk to me.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: But if you like talk to me and give me all these things and plan for the day, and even if it's like social, like I've had girlfriends like wake me up on like trips and it's early and they're morning people, and like, oh my gosh, wake up!
51:48
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna go to brunch, and then we're gonna do this, and I can't wait, and we're gonna- I'm like, that does crack me up about you because I I always find you to be like a super productive person, thank you, and very like intentional with your whole schedule and your day.
52:01
SPEAKER_01: And you do go, I mean, you're at work by like 7:30 every morning, but I do find it really funny that it's like Saturday morning, I'll text you at like 10:30 in the morning and I won't get in response.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, she's probably still sleeping.
52:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's funny when the best yeah, I am a very much night owl.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: And I like when you text me and it's like 10 and you're like, hey, I know it's early, but I've been met for four hours.
52:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm in bed, and like the sunlight's like creaking through the blinds.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: So you have like blackout curtains and everything's blackout in the room.
52:34
SPEAKER_00: Like we, me and Robbie live in a cave, like there's no sunlight that enters our place.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: And we he's like that too, luckily.
52:41
SPEAKER_00: So both of us, like, thank God, like we found each other because we both just hide in our cave until noon, and we're like, okay, we gotta get up.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: Like it's time, it's time.
52:50
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm opposite.
52:51
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'll go to bed and open up my curtains before I go to bed so the sun comes through in the morning.
52:56
SPEAKER_00: That's why I think my dog liked you so much.
52:58
SPEAKER_00: Because I think when we were very productive, yeah.
53:00
SPEAKER_00: When Frankie was here, Frankie's like, sunlight?
53:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, he's looking around.
53:04
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's like when you wake up on a beautiful day and like stretch your arms and like the sunlight's coming through your window.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's my dog in Megan's house.
53:11
SPEAKER_00: He's like, Oh my god, this is what life can be like.
53:13
SPEAKER_00: He's at our house and he's like, Okay, they're gonna get up any minute.
53:17
SPEAKER_00: It's still dark.
53:19
SPEAKER_00: Is it actually dark?
53:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
53:20
SPEAKER_00: They always keep it dark.
53:23
SPEAKER_00: Like, he's probably he probably hates our house for a lot of reasons.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: No, Frankie loves you.
53:28
SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
53:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, I know that was a very short, sweet, and simple.
53:33
SPEAKER_01: I shouldn't say short sweet and supposedly not anything to do with it.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: But um, I know that's like a little bit of a lesser-known one, and I know there's not a ton of history about her, but I don't know.
53:45
SPEAKER_01: I just love, I was just really fascinated by these characters.
53:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, these characters make up the whole, you know.
53:52
SPEAKER_00: Again, it sets the tone for the whole era once we get into you know more prominent figures.
54:00
SPEAKER_00: And it'll be fun when we get to the bigger executions, like Anne Boleyn, we can reference these characters and be like, oh, I remember.
54:05
SPEAKER_01: Everything he did about anyone who spoke out against Anne Boleyn, like he was she was his prize at that time.
54:13
SPEAKER_01: And um at that time.
54:15
SPEAKER_01: At that time brief period of time until he moved on to the next to the next.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, I I just really like that one.
54:23
SPEAKER_01: I think the things that attract me to it is like she was young.
54:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, there is like a couple pictures of her that they still have, and I thought she was actually kind of pretty.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:32
SPEAKER_01: Young, pretty, clearly full of mischief, like clearly kind of has that like spunky.
54:38
SPEAKER_00: She does have like a funny smirk in these photos, you know.
54:40
SPEAKER_00: For as like there's just as virtuous as she's supposed to be.
54:43
SPEAKER_00: I feel like, yeah, she's a complex woman.
54:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how good of a nun she was, though.
54:48
SPEAKER_01: Did we ever read anything?
54:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, did she do nun duties?
54:51
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
54:52
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they woke up at 4 30 in the morning and demanded her clean the whole area.
54:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
54:58
SPEAKER_00: But no, but it's funny.
54:59
SPEAKER_00: It reminds me of um Sound of Music.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: I've not you told me you're not allowed to sing.
55:05
SPEAKER_00: Sure, she's burning right now.
55:06
SPEAKER_00: She's like, I just want to sing.
55:07
SPEAKER_00: I just want to sing.
55:08
SPEAKER_00: No, okay.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: But Sound of Music.
55:09
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, stop it, stop her.
55:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm not even a good singer, is the thing too.
55:13
SPEAKER_01: I just sing.
55:13
SPEAKER_00: Is that why I'm not allowed to sing because I'm bad?
55:15
SPEAKER_00: No, just because sometimes people sing too much and you gotta stop them.
55:18
SPEAKER_00: You just gotta nip it in the bud.
55:21
SPEAKER_00: Well No, but anyway, but um no, but it that's it's fine, it's reminded me a lot of of Maria from uh Sound of Music.
55:29
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh yeah, she's uh singing spunky.
55:34
SPEAKER_00: Go if you want to go.
55:36
SPEAKER_00: She's opening her mouth.
55:37
SPEAKER_00: She's excited.
55:38
SPEAKER_01: We're just gonna end with the music.
55:41
SPEAKER_00: Any final words, Elizabeth?
55:43
SPEAKER_00: Not today, as long as there's no singing, my god.
55:48
SPEAKER_00: How do you solve a problem at Maria?
55:52
SPEAKER_00: How do you catch a cloud infinite?
55:56
SPEAKER_00: How do you find a word that means Mariah?
56:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm limited to a time with a cloud.