Latest / Health with Hashimoto’s - Thyroid or Immune Education for Autoimmune Thyroid Disease / 173 // From Prescription Pads to Root Causes: A Doctor’s Wake-Up Call

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173 // From Prescription Pads to Root Causes: A Doctor’s Wake-Up Call · Health with Hashimoto’s - Thyroid or Immune Education for Autoimmune Thyroid Disease

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Have you ever wondered what it would take to make a doctor completely rethink
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everything that he or she was taught? Well, my guest today is Dr.
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Rob Downey, and he started his career in conventional medicine.
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He was writing prescriptions, following protocols, doing everything by the book,
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and then one patient's recovery changed everything.
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In today's episode, you're going to hear how that moment led him from prescriptions
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to purpose, and also what it means for you.
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Welcome to the Health with Hashimoto's podcast. This is where you will find
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clarity and simple, sustainable strategies to feel better.
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I want to help you figure out your root causes.
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My name is Esther Yunkin. I am a registered nurse.
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I spent about 17 years in the emergency department and then got sick and tired
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of putting Band-Aids on chronic things.
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I went back to school and now I have been in holistic health education for about 10 years.
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I know how exhausting it is to live with fatigue, brain fog,
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and the ups and downs of Hashimoto's, and that is why I'm here.
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I'm here to cut through the confusion and to give you practical steps that support
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your body, calm your immune system, so that you can regain your energy and feel
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like yourself again. I am excited to have a guest for you today and to introduce you to Dr.
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Rob Downey. He is a board-certified family practice doctor.
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He is an IFM certified practitioner, and he has 21 years of experience as an
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attending physician and 15 years as a functional medicine provider.
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He is the founder of Seaworthy Functional Medicine, and it is a pioneer in responding
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to needs for better availability of functional medicine in the underserved areas of Alaska.
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So he knows that a little goes a long way when you are looking at health changes.
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Dr. Rob, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Tell listeners a little
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bit about yourself. Thanks so much for having me.
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As we were getting ready today, we were talking about the bio,
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and now I'm in my 25th year as an attending, and I'll be entering my 20th year
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in functional medicine, so time really flies by.
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I had the privilege of interviewing Jeff Bland once, and he said,
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yeah, Institute for Functional Medicine, 30 years.
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And I thought, wow, that's just crazy that things have been around for a while now.
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But I'm in Alaska, and my practice has been in Montana and Alaska,
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and I've always worked for nonprofit hospitals and nonprofit,
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well, and for Native corporations, Alaska Native corporations.
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And so it's been really, really interesting in my career that it's most functional
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medicine clinics are sort of cash pay, standalone clinics.
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And mine has always been part of a hospital, has always been a clinic as a part of a hospital.
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So I've learned a lot about how to have functional medicine be covered through
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insurance because really the family practice visit is the same.
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It's a time-based high complexity visit.
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And I've gotten to serve a lot of people that wouldn't get served otherwise.
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In most instances, tribal health coverage or Medicaid or Medicare or insurance,
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a lot of patients in Alaska are insured.
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So there's always winners and losers in every practice. but having a functional
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medicine practice that serves people with insurance for those that don't have
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as many resources as the rest of us is something I've learned a lot from and been really proud of.
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And it's changed the shape of how I see things because I get to see a lot of
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complexity. I get to see a lot of what works and what doesn't.
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And most of my patients don't have a lot of resources.
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So I also think of myself as a painter that's learned how to paint with fewer paints or,
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A guitar with fewer strings or something like that. Some kind of metaphor or
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analogy about how much yield there really is.
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Right. Oh, I love that because I lived in Alaska. I worked there for three and
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a half years, three years.
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You're right. There are people without a lot of resources everywhere.
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But I feel like in Alaska, there are even more as a percentage.
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And even now, yesterday and this morning on Facebook, one of my friends in Alaska
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is like, I'm dealing with these health issues.
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You know, I'm struggling. I don't know where to turn.
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And I need the Native corporation to cover whatever I'm going to do.
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So hearing you say that you serve that population just brings such relief and comfort to my heart,
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knowing that there are people like you serving the population that I so deeply
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love. So thank you. Thank you for doing that.
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Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. So your story is interesting.
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And when I'm talking about doctors on the podcast, sometimes like I love doctors.
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I've worked with so many.
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There are, of course, being human, there are some bad doctors.
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I have worked with some like bad doctors. But for the most part,
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doctors go into medicine to help others. They have good hearts.
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They want to do good. And sometimes I
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feel like I give them a bad rap on the podcast because we're talking
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about how to get deeper and when your doctor isn't answering the questions how
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do you do things so let's start with your story back before you found functional
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medicine like what prompted you to get into medicine and then tell us about
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finding functional medicine great yeah thanks for the.
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So, yeah, when I went into medicine, I had a family, a medical family,
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which often can be a disincentive.
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But I remember telling people when I applied to medical school,
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I just thought it was really important.
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I wasn't fired up about business, for example.
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I thought meaning is going to have to really drive my work. And it was just
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sort of the choice at hand.
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And and so i leapt into medicine and
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i really enjoyed the challenge and i really enjoyed the service but
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i remember from med school up through becoming
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an attending physician being in north of the arctic circle you know for a couple
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of years up until 2005 i remember thinking wow this is really great for some
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things and not so great for other things yeah and i never articulated it though
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i just it was just this sort of observational journey,
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So conventional medicine is great for removing brain tumors,
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setting broken bones, killing bugs with drugs.
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And I would never want to be without those tools.
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But I saw two types of things happen before my functional medicine training.
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One was that I saw folks not be met in the moment.
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Yeah. And that wasn't even a functional medicine issue. I remember a patient
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that had to have part of her esophagus removed.
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And as the medical student, I rounded on her and she was writing on a chalkboard
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and she said, I didn't know the score going in.
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Oh, no. And I remember talking with her for an hour, because a medical student's got an hour. Right.
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But I thought this should have been the attending physician before the surgery.
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Oh, absolutely. We should not be hearing this.
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This is devastating.
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So part of my take was just, we have to connect.
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And I kind of lucked out there because that's always been part of my jam is
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connecting with people.
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So I end up getting this job. I dream of going back to Western Montana.
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I get a job, South Central Montana, and everything's wonderful.
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And it's an integrative clinic, and the only criteria to get the job are that
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I have to be open to integrative medicine. And we all think this is a great situation.
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And then I'm sitting in a patient room, and this woman comes to establish care
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with me, and she's probably 55, and she has psoriatic arthritis that's so severe,
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So psoriasis, arthritis, autoimmune arthritis.
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It's so severe that she has nearly disabling low back pain that the digits of
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her fingers, pardon me, her fingers have drifted off the hand bones by about
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20 or 30 degrees. So her hands are really deformed.
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She's circumstantially depressed, not a depressive person.
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It's affecting her marriage. It's affecting her outlook because these immune
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drugs suppress the bone marrow.
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She's ending up with low weight blood cell counts and recurrent pneumonia,
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and they're not suppressing the psoriasis.
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And so I say to her in good faith, oh, well, why are you seeing me?
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And she says, you're the integrative doctor.
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You're going to change all this.
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And that's where I'm really proud also that I'm kind of a team-based person
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I think I'm much more of a we than an I person and so I'm also glad that I had
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the humility to say oh wow well I know who you should see but it's not me.
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And that that sort of way of relating to things has been really important at
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many many junctures in my career.
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So our naturopathic doctor who's trained at Bastyr, Hillary Daly,
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had been doing it for a long time, had a great reputation with autoimmunity.
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And I said, I'd really like to refer you to our naturopath.
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So I passed the same patient in the hallway about somewhere between three and six months later.
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And you know how when people get better, their posture gets upright and their
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skin gets nice and flat and their eyes get bright and their complexion is rosy.
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I mean, it's the look of vitality.
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And she has that. She's at ease in her body, clearly.
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And I say, wow, you look so different than the day we met. What happened?
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And she said, oh, I'm so thankful for Dr. Daly.
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And I'm maybe 50, 75% better without drugs.
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It's awesome. And I said, what did she do?
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And she said, a whole food plan that's anti-inflammatory and stress management
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and boswellia, bromelain, quercetin, probiotic,
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And I said, and?
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Right? She said, no, that's it. And so I was talking to Dr.
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Daly in the break room, and I said, what are you doing?
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How do you do it? And she said, the Institute for Functional Medicine teaches
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medical doctors to be like Bastyr-trained naturopaths because Jeff Bland and
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Joseph Pizzorno have this sort of common root type thing.
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Jeff Bland and Joseph Pizzorno founded Bastyr, and then Jeff Bland founded the
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Institute for Functional Medicine.
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So you're going to find the same principles there.
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And I just delightedly said, oh, well, if I get the training,
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well, I understand what you do. You know those moments in life?
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And she said, if you get this training, you'll do what I do.
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What an invitation. And yeah, and my mentor, who I dearly love and remain good
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friends with, she's a pretty thrifty person.
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And she said, Rob, if you do the introductory class, I will fly to Fort Lauderdale
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with you and take the class with you to be your support team,
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because that'll be so fun to freshen up my skills and be.
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And so we flew to Fort Lauderdale, and every night I just said,
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head exploding emoji again, in the best possible way.
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Yeah. And because you gave me the chance to talk about this,
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which I don't get to talk about very often, I'll never forget that David Jones,
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who sort of is like a heart-based family practice doctor, he did a lot of the
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functional medicine framework around connecting with people, including the data,
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and collecting oneself, centering and grounding oneself before going into the visit.
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And he was there and he did the intro and he said it and this is this is true
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you can really hunt this down if you wear a pair of glasses that turn everything
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upside down for a period of weeks,
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when you take them off your brain will flip everything yeah and then over a
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period of days it'll flip back and he said bad news everyone you're all wearing upside down glasses,
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we're going to take them off this week and you're going to be really disoriented.
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But that's what your conventional training has done, is it's made the world
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inverse to what's actually happening in terms of the complex chronic backstory
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to people who have complex chronic problems and root cause medicine.
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And it was just the perfect way for me to understand the disorientation and
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psychic pressure I was feeling around, wow, there's a whole other world here.
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And the Institute for Functional Medicine said, hey, drugs matter, procedures matter.
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Somebody with graves disease who's in the icu we're not
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going to give them herbs we're going to you know
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suppress the thyroid storm but it was just this whole
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extra dimension and then because it's
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super functional medicine says now you just got a bigger toolbox you need to
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learn how to use it elegantly that's been my joy in getting to do that and it's
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really it's really deepened my compassion for my colleagues who you invoked
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because what i'm so clear about none of them have endorsed this,
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but I feel certain this is true.
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The actual reason there's such a pain point to getting into my kind of work
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is I had to let go of a bunch of things that I thought were gospel.
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Yeah. And in medical school and residency, essentially during the training,
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the trainees are kind of imprinted like goslings following Mama Goose.
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Absolutely. If you color outside the lines, you're going to hurt somebody.
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You must listen to us. You can't be a cowboy. You can't be freewheeling.
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And so the trouble is, then, there's a certain temperament, and for better or
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worse, I actually have that sort of half-devoted student, half-rebel temperament.
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Mm-hmm. That you need. That positioned me to say, hey, I'm just going to pursue what's true.
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There's a bigger truth here.
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And i hadn't actually heard many other
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people invoke the hippocratic oath but i
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ended up invoking that quite a bit that once you know there's something better
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you have a hippocratic oath obligation to manifest that i still believe that
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so yeah that's led to just an incredible career some real challenges i would
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never ever characterize myself as some somebody who got everything right.
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I upset some people. I overstepped a few times. I got in over my head a few
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times. But that's medicine.
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Right, right. And you're doing it with a Hippocratic oath in mind.
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You're always trying to do the best for the person in front of you.
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Yeah, yeah. And just being a pretty fierce person and pretty all-in person,
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I mean, my successes have been because of that, I think.
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And the times that I pushed the envelope a little too far, I mean,
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we would have never gotten into space if we didn't have test pilots.
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So every once in a while the plane tumbles the wing rips off so yes.
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Anyhow i'm happy with how i practice now because i learned a lot i learned a
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lot very quickly about where the line is okay so yeah i love that visual of
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the glasses because i've heard that before,
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like that study, but applying it to this instance of when you were in medical school,
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you're putting on those glasses without even knowing it.
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And now this is how you see the world. And now we're going to remove the glasses
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and everything is going to look upside down.
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What were some of the biggest, like most confusing things for you that you had
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to learn this is actually true.
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Gosh, there were a lot. When I met my mentor, I met her out in the street down
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in Hamilton, Montana about...
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An hour drive south of the clinic where we worked together. And she had a big
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naturopathic practice there.
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And she had 500 amber bottles in the back of her clinic that she had wildcrafted
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these botanicals in alcohol.
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She made her own tinctures and just this whole, wow, there's all these plants
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and they're all back there and they all do something.
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And this lady mixes them together. You know, it sounds like alchemy.
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But then down the road, then the active ingredient in turmeric is curcumin,
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and curcumin down-regulates NF-kappa-B, and NF-kappa-B is the same master regulatory
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knob that's impacted by prednisone, so you get the down-regulation without the side effects.
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So that's the mechanistic part. And then there's the art part,
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just our natural medicine playbook pages that these plants are,
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you know, the gift of God or the gift of Creator or the gift of goddess or the gift of Mother Earth.
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So we have these multifaceted physiological cascades that are meant to be intimately
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entwined with these signaling systems from the Earth.
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Whether it's food or botanicals or to some degree nutraceuticals.
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And so it was just this wild, wonderful, beautiful journey.
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But the thing was, the patients were having these spectacular outcomes,
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and they were deeply appreciative, and it was very safe.
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And so actually what happened is my psychic pressure had to catch up with the
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outcomes, because my mentor and I saw these patients together at the visits,
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and the outcomes were just like the psoriatic arthritis case.
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They were out of proportion to expected, or way out of proportion to expected,
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In a good way. In a really good way.
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And so it was just so compelling how powerful this tool was.
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And it really, my heart of service was just compelled to just keep going.
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And then I guess the other thing that I was able to do is just say,
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oh, wow, there's things I didn't understand.
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And now that I do, I have to figure out how to internally reconcile all of them.
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And that's when I started talking to my colleagues and my patients about this
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does all fit together. And credit where it's due.
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That's what the Institute for Functional Medicine said the whole time.
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They said this all fits together. These are just more tools.
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So you turn a bolt with a wrench and you turn a screw with a screwdriver.
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And if you take one tool to the other thing, you don't get what you want.
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So it's been, and it's a neat chance to, they used to say re-enchant yourself
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with clinical medicine, Institute for Functional Medicine, that was their old motto.
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And it is, it's enchanting, because in the best possible way,
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there's some creativity and alchemy in the plans, but the science is so rigorous,
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and the decision-making, clinical decision-making is so discerning and so rigorous.
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And so it really is possible to do it all and we never know where the cases
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are going to go because each case is just a tailored jacket made for that patient,
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and sometimes they think they're here for herbs and they end up seeing the surgeon
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and sometimes they think they need a blood pressure drug and they end up on
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some CoQ10 and magnesium and mindfulness we just never know,
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what their tailored jacket's going to look like Right, because each person is unique Yes.
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I remember you said when I was on your show, I think you said there's such a
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binary in a traditional medicine, either you're sick or you're not.
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And that's not actually true. Like there's more to it.
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So when somebody comes to see you, let's say for Hashimoto's,
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that's my podcast, how would you have seen that binary?
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And what do you look at now instead?
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Well, it's poignant to report that not only did I see it in a binary fashion,
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but that was who I was and that's how I treated things up until 2005.
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That might have been part of my motivation, too, is sort of atonement once we know more.
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Maybe with our kids, for example, those of us that have kids,
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if there's something in our parenting that wasn't optimal but well-intentioned
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and then we know a better way to do it,
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part of why we really show up for that next level is this sensibility,
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oh, I could have done it better, but I didn't know.
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And sort of hoping then that they'll give us grace for who we were before we leveled up.
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So I used to say to people, well, you don't, you know, I did the thing that I now am so critical of.
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I said to people, you're fine.
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There's a deep irony, of course, which your audience will appreciate.
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And Hashimoto's hypothyroidism is the perfect example. I said,
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you're fine because your TSH is less than five or less than five and a half
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or six or whatever it was when I was trained.
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And so once this two for functional medicine came along and said,
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it's not disease versus absence of disease. It's not that binary distinction.
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It's disease to optimal health. And there's a spectrum and we're moving people here.
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Then what i realized was when i said to people they
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were fine how deeply offensive that was because
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they would have never come to see me if they felt fine right and even more deeply
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ironically their numbers weren't fine and i was the one that didn't know it
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so very poignant i would say the other thing is to do functional medicine as
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a physician you have to be ready to be humbled,
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but just about everything that matters is humbling.
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I mean, not all the people who attain mastery level in their craft are humble
21:34
people, but the process of learning and showing up and trying to attain mastery
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level is inherently humbling, I think, for everyone.
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So then, fast forward, I would say to people, hey, this is what the Institute
21:45
for Functional Medicine says,
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TSH optimal 0.4 to 2.5, nice robust free T4, free T3, nice little reverse T3,
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thyroid antibodies as low as possible here's the lifestyle non-drug dimensions
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here's the medication dimensions here's the degree to you know unwedge yourself
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from these bridging principles and it was just so satisfying,
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and it was really satisfying to say to somebody whose tsh jumped up to 17.
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Hey, the thyroid supplement's not going to get you back under 2.5. This is a dosing issue.
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And I have people drifting in and out of my practice all the time because I
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do what Satchin Patel recommends functional medicine doctors do. I polarize my audience.
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And now my true north is I just say, this is what I would do for me or my family.
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And it's just, it's very easy then. I don't struggle with my message because I've seen what works.
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And it's kind of easy to be who I am and know that a bunch of folks are going
22:45
to benefit and actually know that it's good that they not be with me.
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If they don't want to deploy the things that I have to offer them,
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then they definitely should be seeing somebody else, not in a bad way, and I hope a good way.
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Right. You have to be having a good relationship with your providing physician or nurse practitioner.
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If you don't have that trust, it's not a good fit.
23:08
Yeah. And I would say what's shocking to me, Esther, is just the number of people
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who say the first visit, they just say, this is the first time I've ever been heard.
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Oh, it breaks my heart and also makes me grateful for you. I think, wow, ouch.
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And I do know, I mean, a bunch of my colleagues are hearing their patients, too.
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I think what we're not, we do a long intake visit.
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And so it has a very relaxed feeling. Yeah. And very much the vibe on the front
23:43
end is just like meeting somebody for coffee.
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Hey, how are you doing? How was your day? How was the drive?
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How's your kid? How'd the softball game go? Most folks are just ready to just jump right in.
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It's fine. My shoulder hurts. I'm coughing. I'm tired.
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I'm insomnic. I'm anxious. but just that whole sort of open-ended first salvo
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just fully exhausting itself and just connecting to that what about this what
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about that anything else also i end every single visit,
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do you have any questions or concerns i didn't address.
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And then they say, oh yeah, there's these seven other things I wanted to do.
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And I say, okay, we will get those into the note or I'll have them give them
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to my team or put it on the portal and we'll get to it next time.
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But I think when we do it well, we're, we're really correcting like just a fundamental,
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we're going back to the way people have related for hundreds or thousands of years.
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I think part of our genetic sort of birthright or physiologic
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you know who we are ness is just
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to connect in an open-ended fashion because i think that's probably
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what hunter gatherers did right how's the hunt where'd
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you see the berries what were the leaves doing what was the weather
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what was the day like how'd you feel when you woke up
25:03
you were two days out from camp how'd that go well
25:06
we saw this and we saw that then we collected such and such then so and so twisted
25:10
their ankle you know or winter right telling this telling the stories of who
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we are and how we relate to something bigger than ourselves so i think there's
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a universal resonance state we're tapping,
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when we just literally hear the deep listening that's probably the right term
25:29
i think they were heard in other settings but i think they're at what they're
25:32
actually saying this is the first first time i've ever had a physician manifest
25:36
deep listening yeah yeah because a traditional clinic you don't have time.
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Like you are restricted. The insurance companies or clinic managers,
25:45
like you got to push them through.
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And there's another irony here. It's the most efficient because I did deep listening
25:51
before I got the functional medicine training, just intuitively.
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And I'd have these really complex folks and I'd take an hour on my intakes or
25:58
45 minutes, something like that, pretty long and long follow-up visits till we got them dialed in.
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And I remember I'd say to my complex patients after I'd known them for six months
26:06
or a year, Anything else? Nope, good to go.
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And then I'd be doing the note and think, oh, we manage their chronic kidney
26:12
disease and their congestive heart failure and their hypertension and their
26:15
high cholesterol and their depression and their insomnia and their fatigue. Yeah.
26:19
Wow. They didn't have anything more they wanted to address at the end of the
26:24
visit. No, I'm good. See ya.
26:26
Right. So it's the most efficient, too.
26:29
Yes. Yes, it is. I remember when I was going back to school for holistic health education,
26:34
one of the research papers I read said something about most physicians,
26:39
if they listen to their patient and don't interrupt after, I think it was 120 seconds,
26:45
they will be able to diagnose what's going on without any further testing.
26:48
But most people interrupt after less than 10 seconds.
26:52
And I put it into practice when I went into my patient's room in the ER.
26:56
And even with that in my head, I still found myself interrupting, so pressed for time.
27:03
I'm like, okay, I'm going to try just to listen. I'm going to try to ask questions.
27:08
And of course, starting an IV while we're talking or whatever.
27:11
But that deep listening, I think you're right.
27:14
It is so integral for feeling heard, for feeling seen,
27:21
for feeling like there is hope and feeling like somebody actually knows what's
27:26
going on and can do something about it. And it's just a level of connection.
27:30
And then it, like you said, it's so important for you and figuring out what's going on.
27:35
So it's like cheating. It feels like cheating oh wow the x-ray vision reveals
27:41
what's happening again right i can't imagine practicing without it yeah.
27:48
Yes. So if somebody is currently seeing like a traditional physician who does
27:56
not know about functional medicine, is there any advice that you would give them?
28:00
How can they improve their care in that setting? Or do they have to look outside
28:04
and find a functional medicine doctor?
28:08
Probably the latter because again
28:11
i i think what's happening in the conventional setting is just that you you
28:17
as the patient can pick up on it when they say yes and no in a binary fashion
28:21
they think they're protecting you from harm they think they're protecting you
28:24
from folks that don't know what they're doing and that's what they were trained
28:27
and i forgot to mention just again from a.
28:32
If we were to think that a provider should start to endorse integrative, holistic,
28:37
functional, we might need to remind ourselves that then their confidence to
28:42
even treat a cold, I mean, they just may not, it may not be psychologically
28:49
fair to expect that they could.
28:51
Right. So essentially, I think you have to gravitate to somebody who has the
28:56
interest that this is the right thing to do, to get onto the other side,
29:00
into this other toolbox, and then it becomes comfortable again.
29:04
And it really gets rid of a bunch of awkward stuff.
29:09
Right. Because it's such a tense, icky feeling that they don't agree with you
29:16
and they're trying to dissuade you.
29:17
And the patient often feels that the doctor is arrogant, which isn't necessarily the case.
29:22
And the doctor often thinks the patient is noncompliant or whatever old-timey
29:26
word we have for they're not doing what I want them to do.
29:30
And I just think there needs to be that. There's quite a few very well-trained
29:35
people in many domains now, not just IFM.
29:39
Of course, That's the one I'm familiar with, but a bunch of bodies that do really
29:43
excellent work, a bunch of fantastic naturopaths, a bunch of fantastically trained
29:46
people in this lovely ether that you and I live in part of the time.
29:52
And so I think they need to find somebody who's receptive.
29:55
Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, I think you're right. If they're seeking real answers,
30:00
they're going to have to go out of the broken system.
30:04
One nice thing to do is when you go back to the conventional provider,
30:08
the best way, the way the communities I've been part of have changed is the
30:13
medical providers have heard from the patients.
30:16
Wow, this made a huge difference. And I still do the conventional part.
30:22
I think that's the best way to change the system is the patients have so much power.
30:29
Wow. That's huge.
30:32
That's huge. I did not know that. I love that.
30:36
So my listener, been listening to the whole conversation, fascinated.
30:40
If there's one thing that he or she can take away from our conversation,
30:44
what is the most important thing you want them to hear?
30:47
It's really important to be at peace.
30:51
Because our immune system, our physiologic pathways, our digestion,
30:58
etc., you know, they're all built on the groundwork of us being at peace.
31:03
And we don't live in a world right now that feels like that's the default response
31:08
to the world we live in to be at ease.
31:11
But those are all the default switches
31:14
in our physiology that we need to be healthy and have low or no autoimmunity
31:18
and vibrant thyroid health in a native fashion with no drugs no testing no nothing
31:23
no supplements i mean all the software and hardware is just sitting there it's
31:28
all turned on from a state of peace yeah so whatever your state of peace is
31:32
whatever you need to be at peace,
31:34
it's probably the most important functional medicine question there is and thankfully
31:40
again everybody's tailored jacket, they actually know in their heart what that
31:44
thing or those things plural are.
31:46
So it's more about just the courage of whether or not they're going to choose to be at peace.
31:53
Yes. Yes. And that's something that you don't have to go see a doctor to figure out.
31:58
Everybody can do that for themselves. What will help me be at peace? Yeah.
32:02
Yeah. The price point is right. The price point is courage.
32:05
Yeah, very true. Dr. Rob, thank you so much for taking some time out of your
32:11
day to be on the Health with Hashimoto's podcast.
32:13
Where can my listeners find you?
32:17
SeaworthyMed.com. So you can check out Esther there. She's on the Field Notes
32:21
podcast. It's just a tab you could click on.
32:24
Don't check out the blog. It's old and dusty. You won't find much there.
32:28
We probably need to take it down.
32:30
Podcast on the island is really vibrant and has people like
32:33
esther and it just would really
32:36
mean a lot if there's value there to do what all content creators encourage
32:40
you to do it does actually matter like it subscribe share it because somebody
32:45
needs if you're benefiting from this somebody else needs it and in the digital
32:50
ether the only way you can get it to them is to feed the algorithm in a good
32:53
way so seaworthymed.com the podcast tab,
32:56
Awesome. I'll have that link down in the show notes. Thank you again for coming on the podcast.
33:02
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33:05
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33:08
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33:16
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33:21
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