Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / Cubs mailbag, Part 2: More trade scenarios, fixing the bullpen and should’ve just called it a rebuild

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Cubs mailbag, Part 2: More trade scenarios, fixing the bullpen and should’ve just called it a rebuild · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: I just can't disagree more with the idea that the
0:03
Speaker 1: Cubs need to invest a lot of money or a
0:05
Speaker 1: lot of years and believers it's a bad idea. Welcome
0:14
Speaker 1: into Northside Territory, Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm Sahadev
0:19
Speaker 1: Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney, where your Cubs beat
0:22
Speaker 1: writers over at the Athletic Patrick, we are going to
0:25
Speaker 1: do part two of a reader mail bag listener mail bag. Uh,
0:31
Speaker 1: the listeners came in full force the other day when
0:34
Speaker 1: we asked for questions. They have a lot of them,
0:38
Speaker 1: and you know, it's a it's a common theme essentially
0:41
Speaker 1: boils down to what's going wrong and how can this
0:45
Speaker 1: team get better? Right? But thanks? Yeah, there there are
0:49
Speaker 1: more specifics there, but uh, yeah, there's this team has
0:54
Speaker 1: to get better and we need to We'll try and
0:57
Speaker 1: answer how they're going to go about doing that. Patrick,
1:00
Speaker 1: Why don't you kick it off with the first question here?
1:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go with a friend of the program, Michael
1:07
Speaker 2: Sarami with our our guy at let Nation, friend of
1:13
Speaker 2: Brett Given the collection of top one hundred prospects at
1:18
Speaker 2: Triple A is a talent consolidating trade nearly a foregone
1:23
Speaker 2: conclusion this offseason.
1:26
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we've talked about this a lot, right,
1:29
Speaker 1: and I think it is. But I also think it's
1:31
Speaker 1: an important question, and I think it can't be brought
1:33
Speaker 1: up enough because yes, I think the answer is yes.
1:37
Speaker 1: I thought last year it made sense to trade some talent.
1:43
Speaker 1: They did, and I keep seeing ziere Hope highlights on Twitter,
1:49
Speaker 1: so Cubspans probably are a little stressed out about that.
1:55
Speaker 1: But hey, Michael Bush had a great rookie season. Yeah,
1:58
Speaker 1: so you can't freak out too much. Yes, you have
2:01
Speaker 1: to give up talent to get talent. So even talking
2:05
Speaker 1: about trading like zire Hope wasn't a top one hundred prospect.
2:09
Speaker 1: He may end up being one, but he wasn't one.
2:12
Speaker 1: There are positives from that. I think you can take
2:15
Speaker 1: the Cubs were able to draft someone in the twelfth
2:17
Speaker 1: round or eleventh round or whatever he was drafted and
2:20
Speaker 1: use him to get you know, a highly prospect too
2:24
Speaker 1: impact the team, and he's turning into a good prospect,
2:28
Speaker 1: So who knows what that means for their talent. But
2:31
Speaker 1: to answer that question, I don't know how you don't
2:34
Speaker 1: make a trade. Kevin Olkountra is ready for the big leagues.
2:38
Speaker 1: Own case, he's ready for the big league. Matt Shaw's
2:40
Speaker 1: pretty much ready for the big leagues. Moys's Biasarius is
2:43
Speaker 1: almost ready for the big leagues. Who am I missing?
2:46
Speaker 1: I'm missing James. James Treantos is almost ready for the
2:50
Speaker 1: big leagues. Kate Horton will probably be ready if he
2:53
Speaker 1: stays healthy at some point in the middle of the season. Right,
2:57
Speaker 1: And that's just guys, that's just as a triple A. Right,
3:01
Speaker 1: you could Camp Smith, if Cam Smith is on the
3:04
Speaker 1: Matt Shaw progression, he's gonna be ready there, yeah, year, yeah, yeah,
3:11
Speaker 1: So he's he's not far off. Someone's gonna pop that
3:16
Speaker 1: they've done a really good job of drafting. Who's a
3:19
Speaker 1: I'm blanking on the pitchers that they have Connor Noland
3:22
Speaker 1: and uh there's another one that's even better. Uh, both
3:26
Speaker 1: of them got to triple A I believe. So, so
3:29
Speaker 1: those are later round pitchers that that they that they've
3:33
Speaker 1: developed at a certain point. I mean, and then you're
3:37
Speaker 1: talking about guys that have reached the big leagues as well. Right,
3:41
Speaker 1: you can talk about the pitching that they have at
3:42
Speaker 1: the big leagues, like Wicks Ben Brown, Hayden wis Nesky,
3:46
Speaker 1: uh and whoever else I'm not thinking of that that's
3:48
Speaker 1: reached the big leagues, Javier assad like, Uh, those are
3:52
Speaker 1: all young players, young under control, pre RB guys, And
3:57
Speaker 1: I think at some point you have to look at
4:00
Speaker 1: this team and say, where are all these guys going
4:02
Speaker 1: to fit? Right? I don't always love that talking point,
4:06
Speaker 1: right because like I hated that during the first rebuild
4:10
Speaker 1: where it's like they have too many shortstops. No stop
4:13
Speaker 1: saying stuff like that, Like you can never have too
4:16
Speaker 1: many of those, like too much talent. It's how you
4:18
Speaker 1: allocate it, right, Like how do you use this talent?
4:22
Speaker 1: Is it? And the part of it is going to
4:25
Speaker 1: be trades? And I think they have to figure out
4:29
Speaker 1: who to target and who to move. You don't want
4:32
Speaker 1: to give up on the guys that are going to
4:35
Speaker 1: become stars, but you also need to move guys at
4:40
Speaker 1: what may be perceived peak value. It's a really difficult
4:44
Speaker 1: thing to do, I think, but it takes it takes
4:49
Speaker 1: the right evaluation, internal evaluation. But I think I don't
4:54
Speaker 1: know if it's a foregone conclusion, because I don't think
4:59
Speaker 1: this front office will just make a move to make
5:01
Speaker 1: a move type thing. But it almost feels like that,
5:05
Speaker 1: like they're going to be aggressive right and looking for
5:08
Speaker 1: this and and and they'll be creative in the sense
5:12
Speaker 1: that there may be a move that we don't fully see,
5:14
Speaker 1: like we discussed last podcast because we didn't see the
5:17
Speaker 1: Michael Bush trade coming, But there there is. They they're
5:21
Speaker 1: almost certainly going to move at least one of those
5:24
Speaker 1: names that I mentioned.
5:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're I think you're on the right
5:31
Speaker 2: track there.
5:33
Speaker 1: I can I can get the next question unless you
5:35
Speaker 1: have more thoughts there, Patrick.
5:37
Speaker 2: No, I think you just met something. It up And honestly,
5:39
Speaker 2: I think we're going to be talking about this a
5:42
Speaker 2: lot this winter. I think we're gonna they're gonna be oh,
5:45
Speaker 2: James Treanto's rumor here or like three right here, and
5:50
Speaker 2: putting together hypothetical trade scenarios. So I think I will
5:55
Speaker 2: table that for the next round of trade rumors.
5:58
Speaker 1: Right.
5:59
Speaker 3: Uh.
6:00
Speaker 1: We have a Twitter user RC seventy five Rocket wants
6:05
Speaker 1: a crossdown trade. He's asking what trading for Garrett Crochet
6:10
Speaker 1: makes sense. Then he's asking about the status of Ben
6:13
Speaker 1: Brown and his help. You've got any updates there on
6:17
Speaker 1: Ben Brown? Patrick and the possibility of Garrett Crochet coming
6:22
Speaker 1: up north, Well, I.
6:24
Speaker 2: Think it absolutely makes sense to trade for Garrett Crochet,
6:28
Speaker 2: and I think there is almost a zero chance of
6:31
Speaker 2: the White Sox trading Crochet to the north side of Chicago.
6:35
Speaker 2: I think that is our understanding of the situation, right,
6:39
Speaker 2: I mean, Jed and Chris gets our good friends are
6:42
Speaker 2: essentially neighbors. You know, they may have seen each other
6:45
Speaker 2: this morning at like school drop off or whatever. Our
6:48
Speaker 2: buddy John Greenberg had that great ji leading it to crossdown.
6:51
Speaker 2: So there is certainly a dialogue. But within that I
6:57
Speaker 2: think there is like no expectation that that could actually.
7:01
Speaker 1: Happen, right, Yeah, I would put it near zero, if
7:05
Speaker 1: not confidently saying zero percent chance of that happening. I
7:12
Speaker 1: also I think i'd monitor that trade though. If the
7:16
Speaker 1: White Sox get a catching prospect, is that something? Now
7:21
Speaker 1: they have two catching prospects, because because they have Edgar Carro,
7:25
Speaker 1: I believe who they got in a trade with the Angels,
7:29
Speaker 1: I want to say, is a catching prospect. And if
7:31
Speaker 1: if they get another catching prospect, which is very possible,
7:36
Speaker 1: would they move one of those catching prospects? And then
7:39
Speaker 1: would that be something that they could because they need
7:42
Speaker 1: position players, right, they need different position players. So does
7:47
Speaker 1: a catcher like does a catcher for outfielder prospect? Catching
7:52
Speaker 1: prospect for outfielder prospect makes sense. I'm just throwing out ideas,
7:58
Speaker 1: and I think it's it's something that you know could
8:01
Speaker 1: make sense. But that's that's you know, that's why you
8:03
Speaker 1: monitor what the White Socks are doing. What like who
8:06
Speaker 1: are they getting and what kind of talent are they getting?
8:09
Speaker 1: And could there be a creative way for the Cubs
8:11
Speaker 1: to kind of jump in on on that, but getting Crochet,
8:16
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't see that. That's that's almost zero,
8:19
Speaker 1: like I said.
8:20
Speaker 2: And I think for me with Ben Brown, like we
8:27
Speaker 2: got to see him throw in like a spring training game,
8:30
Speaker 2: have him get through that. See is he going to
8:33
Speaker 2: be like cleared to throw in real games next year?
8:38
Speaker 2: Like this has been a weird Yeah, situation to.
8:43
Speaker 1: Be reevaluated like right around now.
8:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that would be a reevaluated Jet at
8:48
Speaker 2: his end of season presser being re evaluated right now.
8:51
Speaker 2: And obviously he hope for the news. He's super talented.
8:56
Speaker 2: He's a really interesting guy. He's like a real student
8:59
Speaker 2: of the game. But you know, I think you get
9:03
Speaker 2: to a place with young pitchers where like the updates
9:08
Speaker 2: just kind of get old, like un last year Harry
9:11
Speaker 2: wood Mark Pryor, and like the team hasn't won the
9:15
Speaker 2: World Series since nineteen oh eight, Like yeah, those young
9:18
Speaker 2: pitchers at that moment, dated day, you know, regular updates.
9:21
Speaker 2: I think with Brown, it's like, do your off season,
9:26
Speaker 2: Let's see what happens in Masa. Let's see, like if
9:28
Speaker 2: you're kind of ready to go again. I mean the
9:33
Speaker 2: Cobs have already moved on from the idea of him
9:36
Speaker 2: being part of their opening day rotation next year. I
9:39
Speaker 2: think it's maybe you stretch him out in Iowa's depth,
9:44
Speaker 2: maybe he comes out of the bullpen, maybe you focus
9:46
Speaker 2: on him as a late inning reliever, but like until
9:50
Speaker 2: like games start again. I wouldn't like put too much
9:55
Speaker 2: weight on kind of any of these updates. And maybe
9:58
Speaker 2: that's me just being cynical. Let me get you one
10:06
Speaker 2: Saturday from Matt Sewell, what arm and what bat do
10:11
Speaker 2: the Cubs absolutely need to add this off season? A
10:15
Speaker 2: number one or two starter plon Soto would of course
10:18
Speaker 2: be my dream, but once realistic, where can the Cubs
10:22
Speaker 2: even add a bat? Catcher? And d H appear to
10:25
Speaker 2: be the only current openings.
10:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're not wrong when you say where can
10:31
Speaker 1: they add a bat? I think that is going to
10:33
Speaker 1: be something like all of us kind of look at
10:36
Speaker 1: and say, like where does this happen? How do they
10:39
Speaker 1: how do they do this? So I think as far
10:41
Speaker 1: as free agents go, like i'd look at you know,
10:44
Speaker 1: I don't think one soda is happening. I think that's
10:48
Speaker 1: that's no chance, Poppy, Yeah, that one's not I guess
10:51
Speaker 1: that one's not zero percent, but it maybe a zero
10:55
Speaker 1: point one percent. Yeah, just because we don't want to
10:58
Speaker 1: rule out something happening and the next month or they're
11:01
Speaker 1: just like screw it, or like ownership gets involved somehow
11:05
Speaker 1: and says you have so much more money than we
11:07
Speaker 1: ever expected. I mean, looking at free agents, I think
11:11
Speaker 1: Santander from Baltimore makes sense, right, And also we have
11:17
Speaker 1: to consider like we don't know what Cody Bellinger is
11:20
Speaker 1: doing yet if he opts out, that just makes it
11:22
Speaker 1: just changes a lot of things. And Santader makes a
11:25
Speaker 1: ton of sense, right, Like then Santander is a guy
11:28
Speaker 1: that you just say like, yes, he makes sense. Are
11:32
Speaker 1: you willing to give up the pick? Are you willing
11:34
Speaker 1: to pay the price that would be more. That would
11:37
Speaker 1: be the bigger question to me than whether he's a fit. Right.
11:42
Speaker 1: And then and then you're talking about guys like free
11:45
Speaker 1: agent wise, it's like, Okay, what what are you trying
11:49
Speaker 1: to do? And who are you? Like? What other trades
11:52
Speaker 1: are you making? What what moves are you making? Is
11:55
Speaker 1: Nico Horner still a part of this team? Right? Is
12:00
Speaker 1: are you committed to Michael Bush playing only first base?
12:05
Speaker 1: Those types of things? And then and then you have
12:07
Speaker 1: to look at like, uh, is Pete Alazzo a fit
12:12
Speaker 1: for this team? Right? Are you just going straight slug
12:15
Speaker 1: and going going to get like this this power hitting
12:18
Speaker 1: established guy that you know can can deliver home runs.
12:22
Speaker 1: I don't know if those those things make perfect sense.
12:26
Speaker 1: And and pre agent wise, I think pre agent wise
12:29
Speaker 1: pitching makes more sense. I don't think carbon Burns is
12:32
Speaker 1: happening again, like maybe, but it's like there's so many
12:37
Speaker 1: reasons why I'll Scott Boris's client number one, right, going
12:42
Speaker 1: to be looking for like maybe not a record deal,
12:46
Speaker 1: but something just below the Garrett Cole uh and and.
12:50
Speaker 2: Like strasburg Ish.
12:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's thirty, he's his strikeout rate is going down.
12:59
Speaker 1: These are just trends that this type of front office
13:02
Speaker 1: I don't think looks at and says, yep, that's that's
13:06
Speaker 1: worth that type of investment. But Max Freed may be
13:11
Speaker 1: worth the risk. Uh, someone like Nathan Evaldi, an older
13:16
Speaker 1: guy who you can get it a shorter deal, who
13:18
Speaker 1: is consistent and uh you know like I and has
13:23
Speaker 1: done it in the postseason. Like those are some those
13:26
Speaker 1: are some names off the top of my head, like
13:27
Speaker 1: Blake's Now, I don't see it. He's going to be
13:30
Speaker 1: getting a pretty big deal.
13:32
Speaker 4: Uh like maybe, but yeah, I do, I don't see that.
13:37
Speaker 4: Sean and Iya just said is in the middle of
13:40
Speaker 4: a pretty monster season and a pretty good postseason. Like
13:46
Speaker 4: but like the so what did David Stearns do there?
13:50
Speaker 4: He went and got someone that was under value, made
13:52
Speaker 4: him a starter again and and and right right, So
14:00
Speaker 4: I think they'll be looking for that type of thing
14:02
Speaker 4: or just like it, like I said, like if all makes.
14:05
Speaker 1: Sense to me, where it's like he's not gonna cost
14:08
Speaker 1: a ton because he's thirty five ish.
14:11
Speaker 2: Uh.
14:11
Speaker 1: And then and then you look at trades for bats
14:13
Speaker 1: when I when I think of bats, I like think
14:15
Speaker 1: of like just yeah, Is Brent Rooker gonna cost a lot? Probably? Sure,
14:22
Speaker 1: but he looks pretty good when he played at Wrigley
14:26
Speaker 1: the last month, right, And uh, you've got to check in.
14:30
Speaker 1: Just just ask about guys like are the Astors gonna
14:33
Speaker 1: trade Kyle Tucker or are they gonna pay? Like are
14:36
Speaker 1: they gonna pay Alex Bregman and trade Kyle Tucker? They're
14:38
Speaker 1: gonna let Bregman walk and pay Kyle Tucker? Are they
14:41
Speaker 1: gonna pay them both? I don't know, Uh, but you
14:44
Speaker 1: gotta ask, You gotta check. You got to ask about
14:47
Speaker 1: Vlad and likely get rebuffed very quickly. Right, and then
14:52
Speaker 1: there's going there's probably gonna be some name that I'm
14:55
Speaker 1: none of us are considering right now. That's a good
14:57
Speaker 1: bat that hits the trade market. So I think all
15:01
Speaker 1: those things you have to consider and just be open minded.
15:04
Speaker 1: I think a bat may may have to come by
15:06
Speaker 1: a trade, Like I just have a feeling like it
15:09
Speaker 1: that that would be the route to get the bat.
15:11
Speaker 1: I just don't know, Like I probably didn't name the
15:15
Speaker 1: bat that they're going to go trades for, you know
15:18
Speaker 1: what I mean? All Right, let's what's the next question here?
15:23
Speaker 1: This Tiger's TS nine has two questions. Jed seems to
15:29
Speaker 1: have organizational blind spots regarding bullpen assembly, signing five war
15:33
Speaker 1: players are giving two year contracts to players Mancini and Barnhardt,
15:39
Speaker 1: Will counsel challenge him to take more risks in free
15:42
Speaker 1: agency as befitting a team with a two hundred and
15:44
Speaker 1: forty million dollar payroll. It's admiral to be able to
15:48
Speaker 1: fix a bullpen in season. However, undeniably there is a
15:52
Speaker 1: connection between the offensive swoon and the bullpen struggles prior
15:57
Speaker 1: to and during the same time. I'm losing track of
16:02
Speaker 1: what the flow of that question. What does Jed need
16:05
Speaker 1: to do to ensure this doesn't happen again for a
16:07
Speaker 1: third season a row. I think he's saying, like, two
16:09
Speaker 1: seasons in a row, oftense kind of disappeared and the
16:12
Speaker 1: bullpen struggled. It did both times that did kind of
16:15
Speaker 1: come together with the bullpen. The offense didn't really disappear
16:18
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, in my opinion, it was pretty
16:23
Speaker 1: solid all throughout the season in twenty twenty three, but
16:26
Speaker 1: the bullpen certainly took a while to kind of coalesce there.
16:33
Speaker 1: I have thoughts on bullpen. Patrick could go ahead and
16:38
Speaker 1: share your thoughts.
16:39
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'll leave some of the bullpens. I would
16:41
Speaker 2: just say kind of picking apart this question, which had
16:46
Speaker 2: a lot of good ideas within it, Like I don't
16:48
Speaker 2: know if the bullpen is a blind spot for Jet
16:50
Speaker 2: as much as he's fully aware of like kind of
16:53
Speaker 2: how he's gone about this and doesn't really seem all
16:56
Speaker 2: that inclined to change it. The man's any Barnhart types.
17:02
Speaker 2: I will kind of quote you sa how to of like, look,
17:06
Speaker 2: every team has stuff like that. You're kind of going
17:10
Speaker 2: for role players, it has those did not work out.
17:14
Speaker 2: I do think it'll be issering to see like, Okay,
17:16
Speaker 2: now they have like triple A depth, like don't sign
17:20
Speaker 2: those guys or be good at signing those guys. I mean,
17:25
Speaker 2: you know, we probably shouldn't overthink the catching situation or
17:31
Speaker 2: like place too much of an emphasis on that, Like
17:34
Speaker 2: if you think biostereos can help and you don't want
17:37
Speaker 2: to get stuck with kind of a bigger Barnhart deal
17:41
Speaker 2: right where it's like a guy you know, that one
17:44
Speaker 2: to one gold glove and you know, has this great
17:47
Speaker 2: reputation but like does not hit and does not get
17:49
Speaker 2: off to a good start. I think that's where some
17:53
Speaker 2: of this stuff can spiral. I think Council has already
17:58
Speaker 2: challenged the Cups to take more risks with that kind
18:03
Speaker 2: of great moment in the Wrigley interview room of just
18:07
Speaker 2: saying there's a big gap with Brewers. We should be
18:10
Speaker 2: trying to build a ninety win teams around here. So
18:12
Speaker 2: I would expect that to continue to happen throughout the
18:17
Speaker 2: off season. And then yes, i'd leave it to you
18:21
Speaker 2: to kind of explain the bullpen strategy that I don't
18:25
Speaker 2: think is really evolving all that much, although watching like
18:30
Speaker 2: play homes during the playoffs, I'm like, yeah, that's the
18:32
Speaker 2: guy they should probably sign and get outside of their
18:36
Speaker 2: whatever the IVY system tells them to do. Of like,
18:39
Speaker 2: maybe he's not necessarily a closer in New York for
18:43
Speaker 2: you know, from April first all the way to the
18:45
Speaker 2: end of October, but he'd be a really nice piece
18:49
Speaker 2: in that Wrigley bullpen for a long time.
18:52
Speaker 1: Honestly, I'd like play Holmes was on my radar before
18:55
Speaker 1: he looked good in the playoffs, because he's exactly the
18:57
Speaker 1: type of guy that like it's like you want him
19:00
Speaker 1: to It's almost bad that he's having a good playoffs
19:03
Speaker 1: for the Cubs.
19:04
Speaker 3: Because he yeah, yeah, it's like he's going to get
19:09
Speaker 3: too expensive now, but he's He's exactly the type of
19:13
Speaker 3: guy you should pursue someone that like had.
19:15
Speaker 1: A quote unquote down season, but like his peripherals are great,
19:20
Speaker 1: his stuff is great. Like that's exactly and and Tommy
19:23
Speaker 1: probably has some idea like just slightly tweaked something about
19:27
Speaker 1: where he stands on the mound or something about his
19:29
Speaker 1: delivery or his pitch usage. And he has a great
19:32
Speaker 1: track record with that. Like it, Like Tommy Outaby has
19:36
Speaker 1: a really good track record with that. I just can't
19:39
Speaker 1: disagree more with the idea that the Cubs need to
19:42
Speaker 1: invest a lot of money or a lot of years
19:44
Speaker 1: in relievers. It's a bad idea. I'm looking at the
19:47
Speaker 1: top bullpens by e RA this season. None of them
19:51
Speaker 1: spend big money outside of Atlanta on their relievers. Houston
19:55
Speaker 1: spend big money on Josh Hater. They had a lot
19:59
Speaker 1: of issues over course of the season with their bullpen
20:01
Speaker 1: though Cleveland awesome bullpen, don't pay anybody, Milwaukee awesome bullpen,
20:07
Speaker 1: don't pay anybody. La Dodgers big money team, spends a
20:11
Speaker 1: lot of money. They don't pay their relievers a ton
20:14
Speaker 1: of money. Detroit, they traded all their like anyone that
20:18
Speaker 1: was like, they had an awesome bullpen. Yankees don't even
20:22
Speaker 1: pay anybody in their bullpen. Saint Louis Ryan Helsley was
20:25
Speaker 1: locked down. They developed him Seattle. They definitely don't pay
20:29
Speaker 1: anybody in their bullpen. Tenpa Bay Like, it's just like,
20:33
Speaker 1: those are the top ten bullpens in baseball. They don't
20:37
Speaker 1: pay relievers. The White Sox when they were about to compete,
20:41
Speaker 1: they decided to pay a bunch of relievers. Their bullpens stunk, Like,
20:45
Speaker 1: do not pay big money to relievers. If it's the
20:50
Speaker 1: final piece, maybe go trade for them at the deadline.
20:54
Speaker 1: Do not do it. I mean always, if you're competing,
20:56
Speaker 1: almost always trade for them at the deadline. Right. Just
20:59
Speaker 1: not give three, four or five year deals to relievers.
21:02
Speaker 1: It doesn't work. It very rarely works. And they're just like,
21:08
Speaker 1: I just don't. I don't agree with any suggestion that
21:11
Speaker 1: that's the way you build a bullpen, because no good
21:14
Speaker 1: team does that. Good teams don't look at all these
21:16
Speaker 1: bullpens and then I look at the bottom of the
21:19
Speaker 1: list and like, these guys paid relievers.
21:22
Speaker 2: Like.
21:23
Speaker 1: The one thing, like I will say is you know
21:27
Speaker 1: there's there is like bullpens just aren't year to year
21:32
Speaker 1: guaranteed to be good. Yeah, Milwaukee seems to have figured
21:36
Speaker 1: something out in Cleveland, clearly it has. Right, So so
21:39
Speaker 1: like you need you just need to be a good
21:42
Speaker 1: at talent evaluation and have some your your process needs
21:45
Speaker 1: to be really good, right. I do not think this
21:48
Speaker 1: is about money. There are other ways that I think
21:51
Speaker 1: the clubs should allocate their money. I do think they
21:53
Speaker 1: should spend money. I do think they should be aggressive
21:56
Speaker 1: in free agency. I think doing so in the bullpen
22:00
Speaker 1: is a big mistake. I just I just think that's
22:03
Speaker 1: not a good allocation of especially when they're not spending
22:07
Speaker 1: two hundred and eighty million like the Dodge, like the
22:09
Speaker 1: Yankees or Dodgers who are spending more than that, right,
22:12
Speaker 1: or the Padres. There are any abilies, right, they're not
22:14
Speaker 1: spending as much as those teams do not do not
22:18
Speaker 1: do it like they need to be better at figuring
22:22
Speaker 1: out how to get the bullpen right in April and May. Sure,
22:26
Speaker 1: but it's not the answer to that is not spending
22:28
Speaker 1: big money. Not my opinion. I'm happy to listen to
22:32
Speaker 1: arguments to counter that, but I mean just looking at
22:37
Speaker 1: the facts and the data.
22:38
Speaker 2: Otherwise, all right, we got I'm glad you're getting this
22:43
Speaker 2: question sided because you wrote about it extensively after the
22:46
Speaker 2: trade Deadlians from Cubs Bucks eighty four patchers seems like
22:51
Speaker 2: one of the easiest positions to upgrade offensively, especially from
22:54
Speaker 2: a power standpoint. What do you think a realistic trade
22:58
Speaker 2: looks like for cal Raley orers.
23:02
Speaker 1: Who Okay, cal Rally is going to cost a ton.
23:09
Speaker 1: I believe Seattle has a catching prospect. His last name
23:13
Speaker 1: is Ford. Don't know if he's guaranteed to catch. I
23:17
Speaker 1: don't know if he's ready to be there. This is
23:22
Speaker 1: a team that still needs offense. I mean, maybe they're
23:27
Speaker 1: willing to move him because they have Ford and they
23:30
Speaker 1: take bats in other areas. Okay, and then Shaye langliers
23:36
Speaker 1: very solid catcher offensively, I don't know much about his defense.
23:43
Speaker 1: Uh maybe average from what I understand, Uh, he's mostly
23:48
Speaker 1: like that's going to be just like power added to
23:50
Speaker 1: your not like not. I Like I remember looking up
23:55
Speaker 1: at the board when when the A's were in town
23:57
Speaker 1: and seeing his batting average, and I was like, wait
23:59
Speaker 1: a minute, I thought Jay Langlers was having good season.
24:01
Speaker 1: Then I looked at the rest of the stat line
24:03
Speaker 1: and it was like, Oh, this guy's just all power and
24:07
Speaker 1: and he's like I want to say, you had thirty
24:11
Speaker 1: homers or it was close to it.
24:13
Speaker 2: So he twenty nine eighty RBIs two twenty four batting average,
24:17
Speaker 2: seven thirty nine ops. And this is kind of the
24:19
Speaker 2: first I would say full you know, above average off
24:25
Speaker 2: offensive season that he's had in his two plus years
24:29
Speaker 2: of majors.
24:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, neither of these guys are close to free agents.
24:34
Speaker 1: It would cost a lot. That would be the big
24:37
Speaker 1: deal of the their offseason. They're big trade of the
24:40
Speaker 1: off season. It would cost like maybe it would be
24:43
Speaker 1: something where you build it around miguel A Maaya and
24:48
Speaker 1: Kevin Olcontra and then more right like yeah, and pitching,
24:53
Speaker 1: Like I think it would like something like that because
24:56
Speaker 1: you'd need like you'd need to replace their catcher with
25:00
Speaker 1: like a you know, a decent catcher, uh, and you
25:03
Speaker 1: need to uh and you need to add more. And
25:07
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be just one top prospect in my opinion,
25:10
Speaker 1: like you're giving up a catcher and like cal Rally
25:13
Speaker 1: I believe is up for a goal glove this year,
25:16
Speaker 1: like he's impactful like that, Like I think he would
25:19
Speaker 1: cost more than Shaye langleiars.
25:21
Speaker 2: Uh.
25:21
Speaker 1: The one thing about Oakland is they their their evaluation
25:24
Speaker 1: of talent is very different than a lot of organizations
25:27
Speaker 1: around the game. So it may you may be able
25:29
Speaker 1: to like swing a deal where it looks like you're like,
25:32
Speaker 1: who are those? Like those aren't their top prospects. They
25:36
Speaker 1: do that a lot, like they're they're unique with with
25:39
Speaker 1: how they evaluate talent. So so maybe there's something there.
25:44
Speaker 1: Either one would cost a lot that that's the bottom line.
25:47
Speaker 1: There was a second What was the other part of that?
25:50
Speaker 4: Uh oh no, yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of the.
25:54
Speaker 2: Off season, right. I mean that question really something.
25:58
Speaker 1: From and I look at yeah, like cal Rally. I
26:02
Speaker 1: just don't like looking at his numbers again. I think
26:04
Speaker 1: I may have mentioned his name last podcast A couple
26:07
Speaker 1: podcasts ago. I was just throwing out names of teams
26:10
Speaker 1: that may be willing to listen. The more I look
26:14
Speaker 1: at his numbers, I just don't I don't see how
26:16
Speaker 1: you could trade a guy that's what is he twenty
26:20
Speaker 1: six or something like that? Like I don't know that
26:23
Speaker 1: seems crazy to me. He's twenty seven. He'll be twenty
26:27
Speaker 1: eight in a couple months in November. All right, Yeah,
26:30
Speaker 1: I don't see cal rally being traded, but I could
26:33
Speaker 1: be very wrong and it would cost a lot. It
26:35
Speaker 1: would cost a ton. All right, here's one from I
26:38
Speaker 1: don't know if it's Ramon or Ramon, but it's spelled
26:40
Speaker 1: Ramon on Twitter. I don't know how to really phrase
26:44
Speaker 1: this as a question, but what is up with the
26:46
Speaker 1: way the Cubs diagnose injuries use the il It just
26:49
Speaker 1: seems like they could really help themselves some if they
26:52
Speaker 1: put guys on there and let them rest a bit
26:54
Speaker 1: instead of them trying to play through injuries. You know,
26:58
Speaker 1: I would. I think this question is is interesting in
27:03
Speaker 1: a sense to like, do the Cubs is that any
27:05
Speaker 1: different than any other teams? Patrick, I think the bigger
27:09
Speaker 1: question is, Listen, they got rid of their again, some trainers,
27:15
Speaker 1: their strength and conditioning guys. They're resetting strength and conditioning again.
27:19
Speaker 1: So there's something. So it's I think it's for me,
27:23
Speaker 1: and you can correct me. You can, maybe you have
27:25
Speaker 1: a different opinion. I think it's less about how they
27:27
Speaker 1: handle the injuries and more about like injury prevention. What
27:31
Speaker 1: are they to get Yeah, yeah, I think that's a
27:34
Speaker 1: big Like. I think this type of question for me
27:36
Speaker 1: is the fans that watch the Cubs too much not
27:40
Speaker 1: too much, sorry, that watch the Cubs and don't really
27:42
Speaker 1: follow other teams, because I think this happens with a
27:44
Speaker 1: lot of teams. And you also have to understand players
27:47
Speaker 1: have a big say I'm going on the eye out
27:49
Speaker 1: they do not like if you this could this becomes
27:52
Speaker 1: a players association thing. If you're just putting guys on
27:54
Speaker 1: the eye and they're like, no, I'm fine, I want
27:56
Speaker 1: to push through this.
27:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt. I think where you're you're trying to
28:01
Speaker 2: stay there. Like how just local baseball is you watch
28:04
Speaker 2: the same team every day and it just become like
28:07
Speaker 2: numb to it, and I think.
28:09
Speaker 1: And listen, it's frustrating when a guy's out for four
28:12
Speaker 1: days with the same injury and you're like, why is
28:14
Speaker 1: any on the il? I get it, I get it.
28:15
Speaker 2: No, No, I think I think you're right in that. Look,
28:19
Speaker 2: some of those changes are already being made. I think
28:24
Speaker 2: I asked counsel maybe in April or May of like, look,
28:26
Speaker 2: I know injuries happen all the time, but like, is
28:31
Speaker 2: the volume of injuries all at once of being the
28:34
Speaker 2: season like cause you to you know that set off
28:38
Speaker 2: any alarm bells And he acknowledged, like, look, we don't
28:41
Speaker 2: have any answers right now, but of course you can't
28:44
Speaker 2: like ignore this happening and not question about could we
28:47
Speaker 2: have done anything differently here? I mean, I will say,
28:53
Speaker 2: like these strength coaches trainers have just like the most
28:59
Speaker 2: brutal hours like maybe in the game, I mean just
29:04
Speaker 2: the just the sheer amount of stuff they have to
29:08
Speaker 2: deal with, and that's what they sign up for. But
29:10
Speaker 2: I think it's you know, always important to kind of
29:14
Speaker 2: just keep that in mind. And I also think too,
29:19
Speaker 2: like the more I've covered the game, the more kind
29:22
Speaker 2: of talking with you Sahadev of like there's kind of
29:28
Speaker 2: an art to this, and that's what it was explained
29:31
Speaker 2: to me, you know a while ago, of like just
29:34
Speaker 2: the amount of technology and data they have in the
29:38
Speaker 2: advancements they've made in that area. We think of like
29:41
Speaker 2: kind of doctors and science, like oh, there should be
29:44
Speaker 2: this like hard and fast answer every time, like oh,
29:47
Speaker 2: if X injury happens and you're on the injury list
29:50
Speaker 2: for why amount of days? And really there's a lot
29:53
Speaker 2: of kind of triangulating here, and I mean we talked
29:57
Speaker 2: about Ben Brown earlier, like how council I mean literally
30:01
Speaker 2: use the phrase opinions, like you know, seeking opinions on
30:05
Speaker 2: this and like different ways to go about really unusual
30:10
Speaker 2: neck injury. So I think ultimately what we'll see is
30:14
Speaker 2: like what becomes of this high performance staff under council
30:20
Speaker 2: and also as the Hoyer Hawkins regime sort of evolves.
30:26
Speaker 2: And speaking of the Hoyer Hawkins administration, we'll wrap it
30:32
Speaker 2: up here. Side of with handle is low at why
30:37
Speaker 2: don't you huh? Great episode with Derek Old on the
30:43
Speaker 2: Cardinals air quotes reset Yes, editorial note thanks to Derek.
30:49
Speaker 2: Great information on what's going on Saint Louis. Back to
30:52
Speaker 2: the questions, but Cubs fans can tell Cards fans that
30:56
Speaker 2: air quotes this is not a rebuilt language. Shouldn't necessarily
30:59
Speaker 2: be trusted. Are rebuilds fundamentally for boating in the current era.
31:03
Speaker 2: Is it all tied to TV money?
31:07
Speaker 1: So I think that's I mean, it's it's tied to TV.
31:11
Speaker 1: Is it tied to TV money? Listen? So I think
31:13
Speaker 1: it's interesting that yeah, yeah, it's interesting that the Cubs
31:18
Speaker 1: are starting a new network right around that that, like
31:22
Speaker 1: it was in the middle of a pandemic. They start
31:26
Speaker 1: a new network, right and then the rebuild it goes
31:29
Speaker 1: into full force a year and a half later, right
31:32
Speaker 1: and and and that's and they didn't call it a rebuild.
31:36
Speaker 1: Does that have to do with the TV money? Does
31:39
Speaker 1: that have to do with fans filling up the ballpark?
31:43
Speaker 1: I think with the Cubs maybe, but like they're they're
31:46
Speaker 1: going to fill that ballpark up for the most part anyways, Right.
31:51
Speaker 1: I think in Saint Louis, it's really hard to sell
31:54
Speaker 1: the word rebuild. The fans aren't stupid. Fans weren't stupid
31:58
Speaker 1: in Chicago. They didn't think this was a reset. Fans
32:02
Speaker 1: aren't stupid in Saint Louis. Uh, they know what that
32:05
Speaker 1: what it is. I think there's another factor that that
32:10
Speaker 1: is really simple, but we don't consider that much. What
32:14
Speaker 1: player on that team wants to hear that. The players
32:19
Speaker 1: that are currently on the team, you don't want to
32:21
Speaker 1: hear you guys are going to lose six, you know,
32:24
Speaker 1: win sixty five games, don't. Yeah, Like like they don't
32:30
Speaker 1: want to hear it's a rebuild. They don't want to
32:32
Speaker 1: hear like you guys are here to lose, like who
32:36
Speaker 1: like imagine like that's I think I don't know like
32:41
Speaker 1: how THEO phrased it, but like he he did massage
32:46
Speaker 1: it a little bit, but he probably called it a rebuild.
32:48
Speaker 1: He called like I think he said it in like
32:52
Speaker 1: flatly like that. But he also didn't, uh say like
32:56
Speaker 1: these guys need to lose a bunch of games and
32:58
Speaker 1: things like that, that expectation is to lose right now.
33:01
Speaker 1: But I think they kind of said, like we're building
33:03
Speaker 1: towards something. We have to do this to get to
33:05
Speaker 1: where we want to be. And that's a lot of
33:07
Speaker 1: what like Jed has said, Jed said before, and I'm
33:10
Speaker 1: sure the Cardinals say you similar language, I think saying
33:14
Speaker 1: rebuild it. Yes, is it we're boting? I think so
33:17
Speaker 1: to a certain extent for certain teams. I think it
33:21
Speaker 1: is in certain in certain markets, it probably isn't. Right
33:24
Speaker 1: Like the players there and the fan base they're just
33:28
Speaker 1: kind of know like this is what you get every
33:31
Speaker 1: whatever X amount of years. But it's like until they
33:36
Speaker 1: can prove that it's an actual reset where there aren't
33:39
Speaker 1: like four or five six years of bad baseball or
33:42
Speaker 1: below average baseball people are going to just say this
33:45
Speaker 1: is a rebuild, and look, it was a rebuild what
33:48
Speaker 1: the Cubs are doing. I think they're out of the
33:50
Speaker 1: rebuild phase. But I think I don't think you and
33:55
Speaker 1: I ever denied that. Did we ever deny that? Like
33:57
Speaker 1: I think we just kind of like said, like, jet's
33:59
Speaker 1: not call it that, but this is what it is.
34:01
Speaker 1: It is what it is.
34:02
Speaker 2: Yea.
34:02
Speaker 1: They refused to start yeah, yeah, and like how do
34:06
Speaker 1: you do what you did did in twenty twenty one
34:08
Speaker 1: and not say and like it's obvious, Like yes, I think.
34:12
Speaker 2: That's a technical error, kind of a messaging mistake. I mean,
34:18
Speaker 2: if we're going all the way back to that point,
34:20
Speaker 2: I think they should have. I think it was a
34:23
Speaker 2: genius that kind of articulating some of that stuff. And
34:26
Speaker 2: I think in that moment when Jed was like fried
34:29
Speaker 2: after that trade deadline on a zoom like saying like
34:33
Speaker 2: I don't know what the definition of rebuild is, I
34:35
Speaker 2: think it was a quote like that like that that
34:38
Speaker 2: was unnecessary.
34:41
Speaker 1: No, I don't disagree, Like I think fans like to
34:45
Speaker 1: hear like a very clear vision and a very like
34:49
Speaker 1: they just want words to like that that they associate
34:52
Speaker 1: with what's going on, and I think rebuild is is
34:55
Speaker 1: obviously what was happening. And I do think there's something
34:59
Speaker 1: to what I was thing about the players, like does
35:01
Speaker 1: Frank Schrundell, Did Frank Schundell need to hear that at
35:04
Speaker 1: the time, you know, you're part of a rebuild, You're
35:06
Speaker 1: not going to be here that long. I don't know.
35:09
Speaker 1: Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe they just need to suck
35:11
Speaker 1: it up and play baseball. You're getting the play baseball.
35:15
Speaker 1: There you go, rebuild or not, I don't know, but yeah,
35:19
Speaker 1: it is, it is avoided. I haven't I guess I
35:22
Speaker 1: don't hear it as much. And you know what, it
35:25
Speaker 1: could be partly because the league doesn't want to hear it,
35:28
Speaker 1: Like the league doesn't really love this right like that
35:31
Speaker 1: they've probably like heard enough questions from Gordon over the
35:36
Speaker 1: years about how he's going to stop rebuilds. Rob Vanfrid's like,
35:40
Speaker 1: can you just get Gordon to stop asking me questions
35:43
Speaker 1: about rebuilding and tanking?
35:45
Speaker 2: Well, the third wild card now too, like you know,
35:49
Speaker 2: the idea of building a team, you know, if you're
35:52
Speaker 2: going back to when THEO first came here of like okay,
35:55
Speaker 2: building a team that can win ninety plus games and
35:58
Speaker 2: avoid us, you know, not that hard to build a
36:01
Speaker 2: team that is in that gray area of buy or
36:04
Speaker 2: sell the trade deadline and could win eighty four games
36:08
Speaker 2: like the Marlins and Diamondbacks of last year.
36:10
Speaker 1: So right, absolutely, Nope, that's I mean that the third
36:14
Speaker 1: Wildcard changes a lot too. Yeah, Like it changes the
36:18
Speaker 1: what teams are aiming for and that's a whole other
36:20
Speaker 1: subject like episode Yeah, yeah, exactly. Thanks so much for
36:26
Speaker 1: the questions everyone like. You guys make our jobs easier
36:29
Speaker 1: by having so many questions for us and making sure
36:32
Speaker 1: we have plenty to talk about.
36:35
Speaker 3: Uh.
36:35
Speaker 1: Keep I mean, We're going to keep doing this in
36:37
Speaker 1: the off season. I'm sure we will have multiple episodes
36:40
Speaker 1: like this over the next few months to get through
36:43
Speaker 1: the off season and make sure we're on top of
36:46
Speaker 1: everything you guys want to know about. Make sure in
36:48
Speaker 1: a rate review and subscribe to north Side Territory, subscribe
36:52
Speaker 1: to the YouTube channel, and subscribe to the Athletic, where
36:55
Speaker 1: Patrick and I will be on top of all things
36:57
Speaker 1: Cubs this off season. Thanks so much for listening. We
37:01
Speaker 1: appreciate all of you. Take care