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Nurturing Resilient Minds: Unlocking Gut Health for Children with Dr. Elisa Song · The Spiritual Parent: Mindful Tools for Raising Spiritual and Conscious Kids

• 0:00
  Dr. Elisa Song: The first tip is to just realize how important gut health is for kids developing brains and for adult brains too.
• 0:06
  Dr. Elisa Song: We know how intimately connected the gut microbiome is to brain development and brain functioning and it's fascinating, when you look at the makeup of your gut microbiome, how that can influence our moods, our cognitive processing, our sleep, our stress response and when we have.
• 0:28
  Dr. Elisa Song: I would say for all kids and adults, but especially for kids and adults who are highly sensitive, who are neurodiverse, it's really important when we're trying to navigate the world and make the world feel safe.
• 0:38
  Dr. Elisa Song: It really does start with the gut microbiome and there's so many facets to that.
• 0:43
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Hi Conscious Parents.
• 0:44
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It's Carrie here and I am here with a little info about raising our mindful kids.
• 0:48
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I've got some tips and tricks about breaking free of the box and becoming who you are and teaching your kids how to do that along the way.
• 0:56
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Join us Hi there and welcome back.
• 0:59
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It's your friendly, conscious mom here and I am so excited.
• 1:03
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I'm a huge fan of the guests I have today.
• 1:06
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I have Dr Eliza Song here.
• 1:08
  Carrie Lingenfelter: She's an integrative pediatrician and she is on a mission to revolutionize the future of children's health.
• 1:14
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I love your mission, dr Song.
• 1:16
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I'm so excited to have you on Heart to Heart today.
• 1:18
  Dr. Elisa Song: Oh, I'm honored to be here.
• 1:21
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Yeah, it's been so fun to chat with you beforehand.
• 1:24
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I was listening to some of your recent podcast guest spots and I love how much you're sharing about gut health and in our family I was sharing with you.
• 1:33
  Carrie Lingenfelter: We have two neurodiverse kids.
• 1:36
  Carrie Lingenfelter: We're all highly sensitive people.
• 1:37
  Carrie Lingenfelter: In our family we're noticing a lot of inflammation and pieces when we eat food, so there's been a lot of inflammation in pieces when we eat food.
• 1:43
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So there's been a lot of food intolerances in our house.
• 1:46
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So, as far as gut health in our house, we all hear about probiotics.
• 1:52
  Carrie Lingenfelter: We hear about eating a variety of vegetables, and fish oils has been something we've included.
• 1:58
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Are those the main pieces that I should be looking at with gut health, or are there other tips that you would share with us?
• 2:04
  Dr. Elisa Song: Yeah, I think the first tip is to just realize at with gut health, or are there other tips that you would share with us?
• 2:07
  Dr. Elisa Song: Yeah, I think the first tip is to just realize how important gut health is for kids developing brains and for adult brains too.
• 2:12
  Dr. Elisa Song: We know how intimately connected the gut microbiome is to brain development and brain functioning and it's fascinating, when you look at the makeup of your gut microbiome, how that can influence our moods, our cognitive processing, our sleep, our stress response and when we have, I would say, for all kids and adults, but especially for kids and adults who are highly sensitive, who are neurodiverse, it's really important when we're trying to navigate the world and make the world feel safe.
• 2:44
  Dr. Elisa Song: It really does start with the gut microbiome and there's so many facets to that and I will say that one of the foundations that we can't ignore when it comes to the gut microbiome really they are, of course, diet and lifestyle factors, which then you know, when you have a kid who may be a little bit more sensory from an eating standpoint or texture standpoint, it can be challenging to think about how to do that.
• 3:09
  Dr. Elisa Song: But I talk about really the five things that create microbiome magic, and there are five things that we do every single day.
• 3:17
  Dr. Elisa Song: So I'm trying to frame this in a way for parents and for kids that make it really doable.
• 3:23
  Dr. Elisa Song: Ok, we're doing these five things every day.
• 3:24
  Dr. Elisa Song: We have to things every day, we have to eat every day, we have to sleep and hydrate and move and breathe every day.
• 3:33
  Dr. Elisa Song: And if we learn how to do those, make little tiny shifts in how we do those, then we support and nourish not just ourselves but our microbiome, because our microbiome, its job, is to really keep us healthy and happy, and we could dive into whichever piece you want, but you already mentioned some.
• 3:50
  Dr. Elisa Song: One of the things that we have to think about is what are we getting in that is nourishing our microbiome?
• 3:56
  Dr. Elisa Song: Because, again, that connection between the gut and the brain and the microbiota, these organisms hopefully friendly organisms that live in your gut microbiome.
• 4:07
  Dr. Elisa Song: They're responsible for making the majority of our quote brain chemicals or neurotransmitters like serotonin, which helps us feel relaxed and calm and manage stress and get restorative sleep.
• 4:20
  Dr. Elisa Song: Dopamine, which helps with attention and focus and staying on task and staying motivated.
• 4:26
  Dr. Elisa Song: Acetylcholine, which helps with processing speed and connecting the dots in your brain.
• 4:32
  Dr. Elisa Song: And if your gut microbiome is not filled with all of these beneficial bacteria that make these neurotransmitters.
• 4:42
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's an uphill battle, trying to feel calm and safe and motivated and thinking about what our microbiota need to flourish and thrive.
• 4:51
  Dr. Elisa Song: I call them the three Fs just to try to make them memorable.
• 4:54
  Dr. Elisa Song: Fiber, which includes not just fruits and vegetables, but whole grains and nuts and seeds, and beans and legumes.
• 5:03
  Dr. Elisa Song: In fact, beans and legumes and whole grains tend to actually pack more fiber punch per bite, so we want to include those when we're thinking about fiber.
• 5:13
  Dr. Elisa Song: Phytonutrients, which is actually a pH, but it sounds like an F.
• 5:17
  Dr. Elisa Song: So phytonutrients, that's color.
• 5:20
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's fascinating.
• 5:21
  Dr. Elisa Song: Each of the different colors that our plants can come in that we eat provides a different nourishing power to our microbiome, and our microbiome converts those phytonutrients into things that we need, just like the neurotransmitters that we were talking about.
• 5:39
  Dr. Elisa Song: And then we have fermented foods.
• 5:41
  Dr. Elisa Song: Now fermented foods are an amazing addition to everyone's diet If we can I'm not going to say if, when we can get it in right.
• 5:49
  Dr. Elisa Song: So fermented foods.
• 5:50
  Dr. Elisa Song: I know for my own kids it's a little bit of a harder sell, but as they get older I was telling you they're 15 and 13, they are starting to like more and more the sour taste of sauerkraut.
• 6:00
  Dr. Elisa Song: They do love kombucha.
• 6:02
  Dr. Elisa Song: Of course they have yogurt which is fermented dairy.
• 6:05
  Dr. Elisa Song: But if you can't tolerate dairy, then having other cultures.
• 6:08
  Dr. Elisa Song: There's cashew yogurts and coconut yogurts that can provide the fermented foods.
• 6:13
  Dr. Elisa Song: And what's interesting about fermented foods?
• 6:15
  Dr. Elisa Song: A lot of people think, oh, it's so good for my gut because they have probiotics.
• 6:20
  Dr. Elisa Song: What we know now is that the probiotic content of a lot of fermented foods is actually very low, and that's only part of the picture.
• 6:28
  Dr. Elisa Song: The biggest benefit is probably because of the fermentation byproducts, what are called postbiotics.
• 6:38
  Dr. Elisa Song: Let's take sauerkraut when you have cabbage that you put into a brine of salt and water and then all the bacteria in there, the probiotics start to eat and digest that cabbage.
• 6:49
  Dr. Elisa Song: The cabbage acts as a prebiotic to feed the probiotic and then, as the probiotic is digesting and fermenting the cabbage, it creates these byproducts that are called postbiotics.
• 7:04
  Dr. Elisa Song: And these postbiotics are what provide us the health benefits, and they are things like our neurotransmitters, vitamin B12 and folate, vitamin K, short-chain fatty acids like butyrate, which are so important for brain and metabolic health.
• 7:19
  Dr. Elisa Song: And if we can get in all of these three champions, these microbiome champions, work on it gradually, that is going to really help your and your child's gut microbiome build that foundation of health and resilience so that if something happens in life where maybe there's you're a party and you're having some foods that are not as nourishing to your gut microbiome, it can bounce right back.
• 7:41
  Dr. Elisa Song: Or maybe you've needed a round of antibiotics and we know how disruptive that can be to your microbiome it can bounce right back.
• 7:44
  Dr. Elisa Song: Or maybe you've needed a round of antibiotics and we know how disruptive that can be to your microbiome.
• 7:47
  Dr. Elisa Song: So we have those foundations and it can bounce back much more quickly.
• 7:52
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Okay, wow, yeah, that's really helpful.
• 7:55
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I had forgotten to mention fermented foods.
• 7:57
  Carrie Lingenfelter: That's definitely one.
• 7:58
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I'm really lucky.
• 7:59
  Carrie Lingenfelter: My almost 10-year-old and almost seven-year-old love vinegar.
• 8:03
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Fermented foods is one, and they love kombucha.
• 8:05
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Is kombucha?
• 8:06
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Is that something that we can give our kiddos?
• 8:09
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I know there's some caffeine in there.
• 8:11
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I'm always curious.
• 8:12
  Dr. Elisa Song: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 8:13
  Dr. Elisa Song: So kombucha, the SCOBY, which is the if you've ever made kombucha, first of all, it's the most fun thing you can do.
• 8:19
  Dr. Elisa Song: It is so fantastic.
• 8:22
  Dr. Elisa Song: When I was eight, I actually created a six-week curriculum this elective for my daughter's third and fourth grade combined class and we called it Healthy Belly, happy you, and we talked all about their gut microbiome, their tiny little friends in their tummies, and how to keep them healthy and happy so they keep us healthy and happy.
• 8:40
  Dr. Elisa Song: And we made fermented foods, we made fermented lemonade, we made sauerkraut and we made fermented foods.
• 8:46
  Dr. Elisa Song: We made fermented lemonade, we made sauerkraut and we made kombucha.
• 8:48
  Dr. Elisa Song: So it's a way to think more broadly, outside of the.
• 8:52
  Dr. Elisa Song: Some kids don't like sauerkraut or pickles just yet, but they may love fermented blackberry lemonade or popsicles made from fermented fruits and different kinds of fermented vegetables.
• 9:02
  Dr. Elisa Song: And I have actually a bunch of different recipes in my book to show you how easy it can be to really ferment foods.
• 9:09
  Dr. Elisa Song: But kombucha, absolutely.
• 9:11
  Dr. Elisa Song: With kombucha there's this it's not just bacteria, friendly bacteria, it's this symbiotic culture of bacteria and yeast that's called a SCOBY and it's this little round I can't even I guess that you would describe it as almost like a pancake shape.
• 9:25
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's like a SCOBY and it's this little round I can't even.
• 9:26
  Dr. Elisa Song: I guess you would describe it as almost like a pancake shape.
• 9:27
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's like a colony of these teeming with organisms, and when you put it into tea and add some sugar or honey when you use honey it's actually called jun.
• 9:40
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's like kombucha, but it's delicious, and it's just as delicious as kombucha.
• 9:45
  Dr. Elisa Song: But some people will think oh my gosh, there's so much sugar that I have to put in to make the kombucha and there's a lot of caffeine because you're using black tea or green tea, your SCOBY.
• 9:56
  Dr. Elisa Song: The SCOBY actually eats and digests the sugar and the tea, the caffeine in the tea and also some of the other phytonutrients in the tea to create the kombucha.
• 10:09
  Dr. Elisa Song: So the end product has very little caffeine and can have very little sugar, depending on what you add to it to flavor it.
• 10:17
  Dr. Elisa Song: If you do so, I do think now you have to be careful at the end.
• 10:20
  Dr. Elisa Song: Sometimes kombucha can have alcohol if you add a little sugar at the end to give it more flavor.
• 10:26
  Dr. Elisa Song: So that's the only thing.
• 10:27
  Dr. Elisa Song: But you can buy kombucha now that's tested to not have alcohol and you can look to see and make sure that has a lower sugar content and I think it's great to give to children.
• 10:37
  Dr. Elisa Song: Vinegar is an interesting thing because you said your kids love vinegar.
• 10:39
  Dr. Elisa Song: Vinegar can taste like fermented food, but it actually is a different process.
• 10:44
  Dr. Elisa Song: When you use vinegar, let's say, with a cucumber, you're actually pickling it, and so both pickling and fermentation were processes that were developed way back in ancient times like the Mesopotamian times, let's say to really to preserve food so it didn't spoil because they had no refrigeration back then and they're different processes.
• 11:05
  Dr. Elisa Song: Fermentation will create this culture of friendly bacteria that helps to preserve the food.
• 11:11
  Dr. Elisa Song: On the other hand, pickling with vinegar actually kills all the bacteria.
• 11:16
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's a different process.
• 11:17
  Dr. Elisa Song: If your kids love pickles, what I suggest is a pickle made with vinegar, and cucumbers are so great because cucumbers are healthy for you, right.
• 11:25
  Dr. Elisa Song: But if you want the fermented kind, then you want to look at the label and look for a pickle that's made with cucumber, salt and water and some spices.
• 11:35
  Dr. Elisa Song: So you just have to read the label to know.
• 11:37
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Okay, oh, that's really helpful.
• 11:39
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Oh, man, so I always, we always dip all of our vegetables in oil and vinegar.
• 11:45
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Is that killing some of the bacteria that we're getting?
• 11:47
  Carrie Lingenfelter: No, okay, no it's yeah, I'm like, oh no, that's how I get the knee broccoli yeah absolutely.
• 11:55
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's interesting Olive oil you mentioned fish oil, but the omega-3 fatty acids found in fish oil and then also olive oil they have been found to have prebiotic properties.
• 12:06
  Dr. Elisa Song: They actually can help support the growth of friendly bacteria.
• 12:10
  Dr. Elisa Song: I love that.
• 12:10
  Dr. Elisa Song: Dipping in the olive oil is perfect.
• 12:13
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Okay, shoot.
• 12:14
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I swear as a speech therapist.
• 12:16
  Carrie Lingenfelter: When I go around and I hear picky eaters, I'm like have you tried oil and vinegar?
• 12:19
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So I'm glad to hear that it's still good.
• 12:21
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It's still great, okay, good.
• 12:23
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I think you mentioned, when you were talking about some of the pieces like the serotonin and such, when we have our good gut health.
• 12:31
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I would love to dive into the behavioral things that we see and the emotional pieces.
• 12:37
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I go around and I share these pieces, that I notice such behavioral changes with my kids as we work to heal our gut.
• 12:45
  Carrie Lingenfelter: As we've eliminated for in our family we had to eliminate gluten and dairy we noticed just such a big positive change for our kiddos.
• 12:55
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Would you be able to explain a little bit more about that for us, with the behavior pieces and even emotional pieces.
• 13:01
  Dr. Elisa Song: Absolutely, the disruption to your gut microbiome, whether it's as an adult or a child, can have significant impacts on your behavior and your mood.
• 13:09
  Dr. Elisa Song: And correcting that, healing your gut microbiome, can also be this profound moment for parents just realizing oh my gosh, it's not just their temperament, there was something else going on right, and we don't want to chalk things up to oh, that's just how so-and-so is.
• 13:29
  Dr. Elisa Song: Yes, we each bring with us our unique temperaments and our unique individual strengths, and yet we know that certain gut microbiota can influence how we think and how we feel.
• 13:43
  Dr. Elisa Song: That's really important.
• 13:44
  Dr. Elisa Song: For instance, you can have when we have an imbalance of gut microbes.
• 13:49
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's called gut dysbiosis.
• 13:51
  Dr. Elisa Song: That dysbiosis can occur in several different ways.
• 13:54
  Dr. Elisa Song: Sometimes we just don't have enough of the beneficial bacteria, so not enough of the good guys, and these good guys, as we just were talking about, make our neurotransmitters.
• 14:03
  Dr. Elisa Song: If you can imagine, if we don't have a lot of serotonin being produced, our brain doesn't have enough of the feel-good hormone to be able to manage stress, to be able to calm down and unwind when we're upset about something, to remain happy and relaxed.
• 14:22
  Dr. Elisa Song: And it becomes an uphill battle when we're trying to work on the behavioral component if we're not supporting serotonin.
• 14:29
  Dr. Elisa Song: Or let's say you have a child who's really wiggly and can't pay attention and can't stay on task and you feel like gosh, I'm constantly redirecting and it's getting exhausting.
• 14:38
  Dr. Elisa Song: If their gut microbiota are not making enough of the dopamine to stay motivated and on task, it's going to be a struggle for everybody involved, right?
• 14:49
  Dr. Elisa Song: If we can support your child's gut microbiota to make a healthy amount of neurotransmitters, it's going to just help things be more smooth.
• 14:58
  Dr. Elisa Song: There's also been studies looking at infants and looking at different at their gut microbiota, and it was really interesting.
• 15:06
  Dr. Elisa Song: We also know that girls and boys' microbiota are different as well and also that what's ideal for you may not be ideal for your sister or for your cousin or for your friend.
• 15:16
  Dr. Elisa Song: Our microbiota is just as unique as we are, but we can see these patterns of differences between sexes and we can also see there are a couple of studies looking at infant microbiota and it could be, on a certain level, predictive of certain temperaments, whether it's an anxious temperament or an outgoing temperament, and it's fascinating to think that could play a role, but it does right.
• 15:40
  Dr. Elisa Song: So that's not enough for the good guys.
• 15:42
  Dr. Elisa Song: Now we can also have too much of maybe the not beneficial bacteria or yeast or parasites, and each of those create their own compounds that then can get absorbed into our bloodstream and also affect how we think and behave when we think about.
• 15:59
  Dr. Elisa Song: For instance, there's a certain category of bacteria called gram-negative bacteria that can make something called endotoxins and can create inflammation in the gut.
• 16:07
  Dr. Elisa Song: And I have had kids with I'm just thinking about this one teenage girl with really severe anxiety and she improved with some dietary changes and we gave some calming supplements.
• 16:19
  Dr. Elisa Song: But the last piece was really getting rid of these abnormal bacteria in her gut and getting rid of the toxins that they were producing that were really clouding her brain.
• 16:30
  Dr. Elisa Song: It made a tremendous difference when we have yeast overgrowth.
• 16:34
  Dr. Elisa Song: Also for parents listening.
• 16:37
  Dr. Elisa Song: These bacteria and yeast or parasites, these abnormal bugs, can tell our brains what we want to eat.
• 16:42
  Dr. Elisa Song: If you have a child who's on the pickier side, guess what?
• 16:46
  Dr. Elisa Song: It may not be your child's brain dictating what they want to eat.
• 16:50
  Dr. Elisa Song: It literally may be these organisms in their gut saying I want this, I want that, and yeast in particular.
• 16:57
  Dr. Elisa Song: What do yeast feed on?
• 16:59
  Dr. Elisa Song: If we talk about kombucha, right, they need sugar to eat.
• 17:02
  Dr. Elisa Song: If you've ever made bread, what do you do?
• 17:04
  Dr. Elisa Song: You warm up the yeast in a little water and you add some sugar to activate it and feed it.
• 17:09
  Dr. Elisa Song: If you've ever brewed beer, it needs sugar, and so yeast want sugar.
• 17:15
  Dr. Elisa Song: And so when your child has a lot of yeast in their gut maybe from a round of antibiotic previously, or maybe this is just their tendency those yeast send out signals to say feed me, and your brain all of a sudden starts craving sugar, and also with yeast.
• 17:34
  Dr. Elisa Song: One of the things I ask parents to give a tip off of whether or not yeast can be in the picture is, by the time we're an adult, most of us have either personally had the experience or witnessed other people maybe having a little drink, one too many right.
• 17:49
  Dr. Elisa Song: And being a little tipsy or even being a little drunk.
• 17:52
  Dr. Elisa Song: And how have we seen people experience that If you've had a little too much alcohol you might be really sad and weepy and depressed and want to be left alone.
• 18:01
  Dr. Elisa Song: You might be really angry and aggressive, you might be really giddy and goofy and spacey, or you might just be confused and hard to concentrate right and clumsy Yeast.
• 18:14
  Dr. Elisa Song: When they eat sugar they create these alcohol byproducts that then get absorbed into our bloodstream.
• 18:21
  Dr. Elisa Song: And a lot of parents, after their kids eat a load of sugar or maybe a huge bowl of pasta which gets converted to sugar, they're like, oh my gosh, they're a different kid.
• 18:30
  Dr. Elisa Song: If you've ever noticed these behaviors that occur shortly after eating a big batch of whether it's sugar from candy or cakes or whole grains and carbohydrates that get converted to sugar, that's a tip-off to me that there's an overgrowth of yeast and if we can manage that, the behavioral component can get so much better.
• 18:51
  Dr. Elisa Song: And then parasites we often think of oh, that's not a problem in the United States, but many kids and adults in the United States have parasites.
• 18:58
  Dr. Elisa Song: They are not just a third world problem and parasites are really interesting because they have a cyclical pattern.
• 19:04
  Dr. Elisa Song: Just all animals in the wild are affected by moon cycles and babies.
• 19:09
  Dr. Elisa Song: Animals give birth during the full moon and there's a pattern to this, and parasites too often tend to be a little bit more active around the full moon.
• 19:18
  Dr. Elisa Song: That's another tip-off for me If kids have more aggression, tantruming, sleep problems, tics whether they're motor tics, eye blinking tick or throat clearing tick that seems to come and go and then you start noticing it actually seems like maybe it's around the full moon or it has a cyclical nature.
• 19:40
  Dr. Elisa Song: That's a tip off to me that maybe there are parasites and we want to do some investigation into your child's gut wow, wow, that's really informative.
• 19:49
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I would never have thought of that, I would have just attributed it to the full moon.
• 19:54
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Really interesting, yeah, okay, thinking about our gut, and I know for us, as we started to look at our gut health, look at inflammation in our bodies and what that looked like in our house, we noticed pieces that were connected with ear infections with my kiddos and then I wanted to check with you about the inflammation pieces you had mentioned.
• 20:15
  Carrie Lingenfelter: There we are starting to see connections with people on the spectrum and inflammation.
• 20:20
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So what can you tell us about inflammation and pieces with that?
• 20:24
  Dr. Elisa Song: Yeah, we also.
• 20:25
  Dr. Elisa Song: Just the gut and brain are intimately connected, so is the gut and your immune system, and 70 to 80% of your immune system lies in your gut, and so our gut microbes can communicate with our immune system and that can then inform how we respond to things, whether it's foods or bacteria or viruses or environmental toxins.
• 20:51
  Dr. Elisa Song: And when our gut is in a healthy state, we know that our immune system then can act appropriately.
• 20:58
  Dr. Elisa Song: Get sick every once in a while that's a normal part of life, right, but then get over it and not always tip over into having an ear infection or bronchitis and a lung infection or whatever.
• 21:11
  Dr. Elisa Song: It is right.
• 21:13
  Dr. Elisa Song: And when our immune system becomes disrupted, that we know that can increase the risk for immune problems especially allergic problems, because we know a lot of kids with neurodiversity also seem to be more at risk a higher correlation of things like asthma, eczema, allergies, hay fever, hives and there was a very large study that was done in 2016.
• 21:39
  Dr. Elisa Song: It looked at wow, that's almost 10 years ago now.
• 21:41
  Dr. Elisa Song: It looked at 800,000, nearly 800,000 births.
• 21:46
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It was a military study.
• 21:47
  Dr. Elisa Song: And they looked at infants who received antibiotics or antacid medications in the first six months of life.
• 21:54
  Dr. Elisa Song: Now, why those medications?
• 21:56
  Dr. Elisa Song: Because we know that those impact the developing gut microbiome pretty immediately.
• 22:00
  Dr. Elisa Song: And they followed those babies for the first through several years of life and found that those babies had a significantly increased risk almost double the risk by the time they were four years of age of virtually every single allergic disorder like eczema, asthma, hay fever, hives and even anaphylactic food allergies.
• 22:22
  Dr. Elisa Song: Now when I was in training this is years ago, decades ago we didn't really see kids with anaphylactic food allergies.
• 22:29
  Dr. Elisa Song: Now one in 12 to 13 kids has anaphylactic food allergies.
• 22:36
  Dr. Elisa Song: And we have to think what is going on.
• 22:38
  Dr. Elisa Song: And so if we understand that how your gut microbiome is, shaped and develops and continues to develop impacts your immune response, then we can prioritize, as parents and doctors, your baby's microbiome, your toddler, your child, even your infant microbiome.
• 22:58
  Dr. Elisa Song: And I point that out because a lot of parents listening will think back and think, oh my gosh, my baby had antibiotics when they were two months old.
• 23:08
  Dr. Elisa Song: We can't go back and undo that.
• 23:10
  Dr. Elisa Song: When they were two months old, we can't go back and undo that.
• 23:14
  Dr. Elisa Song: But we can now know.
• 23:15
  Dr. Elisa Song: All right, my child's poop looks perfect, but I'm still going to look at their gut because I know now that connection between their gut and their immune system and their gut and their brain health.
• 23:24
  Dr. Elisa Song: The first part is just knowing and understanding and also knowing that we can always move forward and heal your child's gut microbiome and your gut microbiome at no matter what point, and I see this even in just as important in adulthood and teenage, adolescent years.
• 23:40
  Dr. Elisa Song: I see a lot of not a lot, but I have several parents in my practice who when they were younger they could eat everything, and then all of a sudden, in their 20s or their 30s now, they have outright allergic, even anaphylactic, reactions to foods that they ate, all through childhood and adolescence.
• 23:59
  Dr. Elisa Song: Right, and we also know in adults that after one round of antibiotics, that significantly increased your subsequent risk of developing depression and anxiety or mental health disorder.
• 24:13
  Dr. Elisa Song: And it's not a done deal, though.
• 24:15
  Dr. Elisa Song: If we know that, then we know all right, if we take the antibiotics first, let's make sure that it's absolutely necessary and let's make sure that we understand how to recover your microbiome so that you don't have an increased risk of developing allergies or anxiety afterwards.
• 24:35
  Carrie Lingenfelter: There's a little heaviness, I think, as a parent in if we did have to do any of those things right.
• 24:41
  Carrie Lingenfelter: You think in your past, absolutely, Absolutely, and that's why I always want to let parents know we can always move forward.
• 24:48
  Dr. Elisa Song: And that's where it's just the first moment, the first awareness aha moment is always one that's like a gut punch no pun intended but you're like, oh my gosh, is that?
• 24:59
  Dr. Elisa Song: Why Is that part of the picture?
• 25:01
  Dr. Elisa Song: And but part of the picture when we look at things from an integrative, pediatric and functional medicine standpoint.
• 25:07
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's all about telling your child's story.
• 25:10
  Dr. Elisa Song: What is the story that really brought them to this place where they are today?
• 25:14
  Dr. Elisa Song: Because if we understand the story, then we know, okay, where do we need to dive deeper, where do we need to do more investigation?
• 25:21
  Dr. Elisa Song: And I tell my all, everyone both of my kids had antibiotics when they were under five weeks of age.
• 25:28
  Dr. Elisa Song: My son was exposed to strep and he actually had pus coming from his ear when he was two to three weeks of age.
• 25:36
  Dr. Elisa Song: And my daughter had a urinary tract infection when she was two weeks of age and those are absolutely necessary times to use antibiotics, and I was fortunate enough to know okay, let's get probiotics, let's try to give some nutrients and I, while I was nursing, try to eat more things.
• 25:53
  Dr. Elisa Song: I can help make help their gut recover but, but even now, for me they're 15 and 13, I think, back and I'm and I have these thoughts of wow, I wish I had known what I know now.
• 26:04
  Dr. Elisa Song: We're always going to have those thoughts, but yeah, but you know now, and that's the amazing thing, right, you know now and now, you know where you can start.
• 26:13
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I love how you're sharing this with parents, because I feel like when we go to a pediatrician we're oftentimes afraid of asking questions.
• 26:23
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I know when my son was first born he's the one that's almost 10, he had a lot of reflux in it whenever I would eat dairy and I had it in my heart, this feeling of I think it's the dairy, I think it's the dairy, and the doctors had said let's put him on anti-reflux meds to help him so he can sleep, because you're not getting sleep, he's not getting sleep, everybody's unhappy.
• 26:42
  Carrie Lingenfelter: And I had it in my heart.
• 26:44
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I don't want to do that.
• 26:45
  Carrie Lingenfelter: And I didn't have the reasoning why.
• 26:47
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I didn't know why.
• 26:48
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I said I'm just going to try backing off of milk.
• 26:50
  Carrie Lingenfelter: And I also had it in my head for some reason gluten.
• 26:54
  Carrie Lingenfelter: And I said I'm just not going to give him gluten.
• 26:56
  Carrie Lingenfelter: When he started eating, we didn't give him dairy or gluten.
• 26:59
  Carrie Lingenfelter: We had it in our hearts.
• 27:00
  Carrie Lingenfelter: We didn't have the reasoning why, but when he was 12 months old, he ate a regular pancake and we watched eczema go up his back.
• 27:08
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It was really interesting.
• 27:10
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I was like I had that feeling yeah.
• 27:13
  Dr. Elisa Song: And you always want to trust your mama instincts and your parent instincts.
• 27:18
  Dr. Elisa Song: It can be really intimidating when you're at the doctor's office and, like you said, you don't necessarily have the articles or the research or even the way of talking about it to explain what you're feeling and what you're thinking.
• 27:34
  Dr. Elisa Song: But you don't have to have that.
• 27:36
  Dr. Elisa Song: I mean, if you have this instinct telling you I'm not sure about this, I think there's something different going on, it's all.
• 27:43
  Dr. Elisa Song: I mean, it's so important to be able to have a partnership with your pediatrician, your own doctor, to be able to have those conversations.
• 27:54
  Dr. Elisa Song: And the interesting thing about gluten and dairy, especially for our neurodiverse kids, there's a couple of different factors with the gluten and the dairy.
• 28:02
  Dr. Elisa Song: Gluten and dairy casein is what the major protein in dairy cow's dairy and also sheep and goat.
• 28:11
  Dr. Elisa Song: So casein is that major protein and gluten is the major protein found in a lot of grain products, including wheat, barley, rye, spelt, kamut, which I don't know how many people eat that.
• 28:23
  Dr. Elisa Song: But both gluten and casein are highly inflammatory.
• 28:28
  Dr. Elisa Song: Soy proteins can fall into the same boat, and there's a Dr Alessio Fasano out of Boston Children's.
• 28:38
  Dr. Elisa Song: He's a pediatric gastroenterologist that really brought this awareness of celiac disease and non-celiac gluten sensitivity to light in the research world and he's brilliant.
• 28:51
  Dr. Elisa Song: But what he's identified is that the gluten protein can trigger gut inflammation and something called leaky gut in all people, not just people with celiac disease.
• 29:04
  Dr. Elisa Song: And we see a similar phenomenon with casein and also with the soy, sometimes soy proteins.
• 29:11
  Dr. Elisa Song: But gluten and casein in particular when you have a tendency to get problems, can be really problematic, and also for certain sensitive kids and adults.
• 29:26
  Dr. Elisa Song: The gluten and the casein protein then can get converted into an opioid-like compound called gliadomorphins or casomorphins.
• 29:37
  Dr. Elisa Song: So some parents, after the kids have gluten or casein or just one of them, both or one, will notice that their kids act literally like they're drugged, like they're spacey or maybe they're aggressive or clumsy.
• 29:55
  Dr. Elisa Song: Their writing gets really sloppy Just these different things, they're different until it can wash out of their system that has to do with these opioid-like compounds that are being produced, and for some kids and for some adults they'll get the similar phenomena that it is important to avoid, just like you're finding.
• 30:16
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Wow, that's really interesting.
• 30:18
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I recently because we are so aware of what our kids are eating in our house and we're always watching and I use, like you said, the mama gut for watching for the changes of behaviors we recently ended up doing some food dyes at a work party for my son and we noticed he sounded like he was slurring his words at dinner and he said I feel funny, I feel really sleepy.
• 30:44
  Carrie Lingenfelter: And also he before that he had this huge behavior impulse control moment and just it was wild.
• 30:51
  Carrie Lingenfelter: We were like this is really intense.
• 30:53
  Carrie Lingenfelter: We don't normally don't have food dyes, so we didn't even realize like one red popsicle could do this to him.
• 30:59
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So what are your thoughts on food dyes?
• 31:01
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I know that's a.
• 31:02
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I feel like it's a touchy subject.
• 31:04
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I don't know.
• 31:05
  Dr. Elisa Song: I think that artificial food dyes should just be out.
• 31:08
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I agree.
• 31:08
  Dr. Elisa Song: They're so inflammatory and at this point now there are enough studies on how harmful they can be for kids' brains.
• 31:15
  Dr. Elisa Song: And for kids who already have a diagnosis of ADHD it can be especially problematic, but for all kids can be especially problematic, but for all kids.
• 31:28
  Dr. Elisa Song: And the challenging part is so many kids are eating so many different ultra processed foods on a very regular basis that their brains have built I don't want to call it a tolerance, but you are living in the state where kids don't even realize how poorly they feel and parents don't realize.
• 31:44
  Dr. Elisa Song: And I just, and I know in my heart parents knew that meltdown and that rage after baseball, after having that green ice Gatorade.
• 31:55
  Dr. Elisa Song: If they knew that they could not have that happen by switching out for coconut water or cleaner hydration drink, they would do it.
• 32:04
  Dr. Elisa Song: It wouldn't feel like, oh, poor Johnny can't have this and everyone else can have it.
• 32:08
  Dr. Elisa Song: It would be more like, oh, I get to understand what is harmful for my child and make swaps instead.
• 32:15
  Dr. Elisa Song: And we don't want to feel, when we're taking these things away, that we're depriving our kids it is an opportunity for their brains to really flourish and thrive.
• 32:24
  Dr. Elisa Song: And just shifting that mindset, because that can be the most challenging part, when we, as parents, are trying to keep out the dyes and the ultra-processed foods.
• 32:35
  Dr. Elisa Song: Or maybe grandparents too are coming and saying just let them be a kid.
• 32:40
  Dr. Elisa Song: We don't necessarily want our kids to be like every other kid who is really so inflamed all the time, and I just I think that once you are aware of that, it becomes easier and easier to hold fast and say no, this is just not something that we do teenagers.
• 33:00
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's really important that they can then also become more in tune with their bodies and their brains and recognize how they feel after eating certain foods, for better or for worse.
• 33:14
  Dr. Elisa Song: Right, and also how that's affecting their goals, because at some point your kids, like mine, are going to be going out with their friends on their own and making their own food choices.
• 33:23
  Dr. Elisa Song: So it's not enough for us as parents to say, oh, you don't eat that.
• 33:27
  Dr. Elisa Song: That's gross, that's disgusting, that's unhealthy, that's not going to cut it.
• 33:32
  Dr. Elisa Song: But if you can connect the dots for my kids right now, soccer, being great at soccer, is really important to them, and becoming more athletic and really having them notice after if they do choose with their friends to have the really sugary thing or the thing with artificial dyes.
• 33:47
  Dr. Elisa Song: Let's notice your mood afterwards, how you get along with your friends and also how your practice went or how your game went, and we really want them to understand how to make those informed choices, because they are going to make those choices on their own at some point.
• 34:04
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I love that idea of switching out for what they can't switching out the Gatorade for the coconut water.
• 34:10
  Carrie Lingenfelter: My son is at the age where he's really feeling empowered and he wants to oppose our choices and calling us very strict, even though we live in a very natural environment in Colorado where the parents are asking does anybody have any diet restrictions, like we do still have to always bring our more natural cupcake, or it's always pizza every single birthday party we go to and so we have to go get a pizza alternative for our kiddos.
• 34:41
  Carrie Lingenfelter: That's definitely become a little bit of a challenge as he's getting older and turning 10 soon, yeah, yeah, so just having him notice.
• 34:48
  Dr. Elisa Song: And when you're younger the younger you are, the harder it can be to really be in tune with your body and your brain.
• 34:54
  Dr. Elisa Song: But once they start connecting the dots.
• 34:57
  Dr. Elisa Song: They're not always going to make the choices that we would like them to make, but at least then they feel empowered to make those choices and they can understand also some of the impact and the consequences.
• 35:07
  Dr. Elisa Song: And then for us, now when we go grocery shopping if they do, let's say they're out with their friends and their friends are buying I always call it Takis because I think they should be taken off the market with the artificial red dyes and the MSG and the artificial flavors, and it's so popular among kids to want those Takis.
• 35:23
  Dr. Elisa Song: But we purposely we go to this grocery store and we look at the chip aisle and look at the ingredients together and come up with great options that are tasty and they're maybe not perfect, but they're much better than the Takis.
• 35:40
  Dr. Elisa Song: And so then he knows he doesn't have to think too hard when he's out to lunch with his friends.
• 35:50
  Dr. Elisa Song: Oh, he's going to go grab that bag of boulder chips, right, or grab the siete fuego chips or something.
• 35:55
  Dr. Elisa Song: He knows exactly what he's going to pick and he likes how they taste and he doesn't feel any quote different than his friends or he doesn't feel like he has to be deprived.
• 36:05
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Yeah, that's wonderful.
• 36:06
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I had one last question I was going to ask you.
• 36:09
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I was listening to one of your recent releases with another podcast and you had mentioned saffron with ADHD.
• 36:16
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I found that so interesting.
• 36:19
  Carrie Lingenfelter: My grandmother is Argentinian and so she cooked with a lot of saffron.
• 36:22
  Dr. Elisa Song: Yeah, Saffron is that beautiful for people who don't know.
• 36:26
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's a beautiful, thread-like spice that gives food that amazing orange color.
• 36:32
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's often used in paella, some Indian curries, and it's a spice that's been known to help promote happiness and support mood.
• 36:41
  Dr. Elisa Song: There are some good studies now in children showing that saffron and the dose is about 30 milligrams for kids and teenagers that saffron can be just as effective as Ritalin in supporting ADHD symptoms without the negative side effects, because with stimulant medications we have loss of appetite, we can have tics, we can have rebound in attention or aggression and insomnia and problems with height and weight gain, and saffron doesn't have any of that.
• 37:15
  Dr. Elisa Song: So I just I feel food is medicine, but then sometimes we need supplements and if we can get our supplements from a food that's been shown to actually be effective, then why not consider it and have that discussion?
• 37:27
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Wow, that's beautiful.
• 37:28
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I love that.
• 37:29
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Thank you so much.
• 37:30
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Can you tell us about your book?
• 37:32
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I'm really I didn't know you had recipes in it as well.
• 37:35
  Carrie Lingenfelter: This is very cool.
• 37:36
  Dr. Elisa Song: Yeah, so my book is.
• 37:38
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's called Healthy Kids, happy Kids An Integrated Pediatrician's Guide to Whole Child Resilience.
• 37:42
  Dr. Elisa Song: You can see it behind me.
• 37:43
  Dr. Elisa Song: It has a yellow color cover and it's really.
• 37:47
  Dr. Elisa Song: It's divided into four parts.
• 37:48
  Dr. Elisa Song: The first part is lays a foundation of what you need to know as a parent or a practitioner and I wrote this with practitioners in mind too so what you need to understand about the gut microbiome and the child's developing gut, brain, gut immune and even gut genetics connection With the research there and the data.
• 38:06
  Dr. Elisa Song: This is solid.
• 38:07
  Dr. Elisa Song: This is something that we've actually known about for decades and we need to bring this to the forefront.
• 38:12
  Dr. Elisa Song: Part two is all about how do we help your gut microbiome thrive with those five things for microbiome magic how we eat, how we breathe.
• 38:22
  Dr. Elisa Song: Breathe has to do with our vagus, nerve and nervous system regulation how we sleep, move and hydrate, and so it gives you tips, really fun practical tips, and worksheets on how to do that every day.
• 38:33
  Dr. Elisa Song: In the nourish chapter I have recipes, including the blackberry fermented lemonade that we mentioned that have all of our microbiome champions in it.
• 38:41
  Dr. Elisa Song: And the third part goes through what happens when something goes wrong If your child has a persistent health concern or maybe they need antibiotics, what we need to understand about antibiotics and how we restore and recover your gut microbiome and also identify the top most common nutrient deficiencies in kids.
• 39:02
  Dr. Elisa Song: So that's part three.
• 39:04
  Dr. Elisa Song: Deficiencies in kids.
• 39:07
  Dr. Elisa Song: So that's part three.
• 39:08
  Dr. Elisa Song: And then part four is almost like your bedside reference.
• 39:10
  Dr. Elisa Song: So it's the top 25 acute conditions in kids, from fevers to sore throats, to colds and flus, to anxiety and sleep problems you name it and how I would address that as an integrated pediatrician.
• 39:22
  Dr. Elisa Song: So what I had in mind was if you were a patient and you called me in the middle of the night and said, help, jenny is starting to throw up and it's two in the morning, this is exactly what I would tell you to do how to use diet and lifestyle measures, supplements, homeopathy, herbal medicines, acupressure points, essential oils, and also when you should call your doctor and when antibiotics might be necessary.
• 39:49
  Dr. Elisa Song: So I have that there more as a reference guide to flip through whenever your kids get sick oh my gosh, that's such a powerful tool.
• 39:56
  Carrie Lingenfelter: A friend had mentioned mentioned a similar type of scenario where you can pull the book and look, and I love this guy.
• 40:02
  Carrie Lingenfelter: That sounds perfect.
• 40:03
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Thanks so much for all of your time today, dr Song.
• 40:06
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It's been a treat to have you.
• 40:08
  Dr. Elisa Song: Thanks for having me.
• 40:10
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Well, that's a wrap.
• 40:11
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Thanks so much for tuning in.
• 40:13
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Changemakers.
• 40:14
  Carrie Lingenfelter: This is Keri, and if you haven't done a review for us five stars and a little few words about what you've enjoyed in our podcast episodes, we would really appreciate it.
• 40:24
  Carrie Lingenfelter: If you guys would like to ever message me, I would love any questions you have or any feedback at info at hearttoheartlifecom.
• 40:33
  Carrie Lingenfelter: We also have a brand new website which we're super excited to share.
• 40:36
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It's hearttoheartlifecom.
• 40:39
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Thanks so much for tuning in and happy life, happy times.
• 40:43
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Changemaker families.
• 40:44
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Bye.