Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Heathers with Paige Weldon

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Heathers with Paige Weldon · The Bechdel Cast

0:00
Speaker 1: On the Doe Cast, the questions asked if movies have
0:03
Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
0:07
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy and best start
0:12
Speaker 1: changing it with the Betel Cast. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast.
0:17
Speaker 1: Here we are again. We're talking about movies about girls.
0:21
Speaker 1: My name is Jamie, my name is Caitlin. Here we are, here,
0:25
Speaker 1: we are Thanks for tuning in. I don't think we've
0:28
Speaker 1: ever introduced it that way before. That wasn't the right
0:30
Speaker 1: way to do it well, or talk about girls in movies.
0:34
Speaker 1: And sometimes they're treated real mean. Sometimes they are, sometimes
0:37
Speaker 1: they're not. Usually though they are usually that they are,
0:41
Speaker 1: but sometimes they get to wear a tank top and
0:44
Speaker 1: you can see the shape of their nipples. This podcast
0:49
Speaker 1: is inspired by the Bechtel Test. If you don't know
0:52
Speaker 1: what it is, I'll try to say it really really fast. Sorry,
0:57
Speaker 1: I yell, you're like clenching. I loves Yes, I am
1:02
Speaker 1: like we're in a ludicrous video. Or I'm going to
1:05
Speaker 1: reward myself with a swig of it as soon as
1:08
Speaker 1: I do a very good job describing what The Bechdel
1:10
Speaker 1: test is is a test that is applied to movies.
1:14
Speaker 1: A thing will pass the test if there are two
1:16
Speaker 1: women talking to each other about something other than a man.
1:19
Speaker 1: I have to have names. Yes, Oh yeah, we change.
1:22
Speaker 1: Actors have to have changed the rules. We used to
1:25
Speaker 1: be like we're but then we're like, we're firm this rule.
1:28
Speaker 1: Now we're firm all right here? That do you hear that?
1:30
Speaker 1: This is the lid going on? God, you're so brave.
1:37
Speaker 1: I do feel like we should maybe like just rehash
1:40
Speaker 1: the date we went on over the weekend. Yes, really quick,
1:43
Speaker 1: let's do that. Oh, you also have to tell your
1:45
Speaker 1: bus story? Oh, because this is yes. And I also
1:48
Speaker 1: wanted to say that I bought uh tickets to a
1:51
Speaker 1: monster truck rally for just me on Saturday. I'm gonna
1:54
Speaker 1: treat myself very nice. I never been to a monster
1:57
Speaker 1: truck rally. Is it like for work or do you
2:00
Speaker 1: have to write a piece on it or you just Yeah,
2:01
Speaker 1: I had to get someone to pay. I want to
2:03
Speaker 1: pay for it, but I was like, I could drive
2:06
Speaker 1: to Anna. I'm not got the time. I'm going to
2:08
Speaker 1: go see a monster truck rally. That's terrific. Yeah, I
2:10
Speaker 1: think I'll probably get a new boyfriend there. He's like
2:14
Speaker 1: that he's like a good place to scout. Yeah, but
2:17
Speaker 1: we did go to a place in it where what
2:21
Speaker 1: was in Korea Town okay, called Cafe Jack on Saturday night. Yes, yes,
2:28
Speaker 1: I've been there. You've been there? Really? Oh? It is sorry? Okay?
2:31
Speaker 1: Can we can we bring her guests into the discussion
2:34
Speaker 1: because I would love to hear. Okay, So our guest
2:36
Speaker 1: today is Paige Weld, and she's wonderful. She's a writer,
2:38
Speaker 1: she's a comedian, and she's band a Cafe Jack. Yeah, hello,
2:42
Speaker 1: thanks for being here. What's going on? You went to a
2:45
Speaker 1: a Cafe Jack? Yeah, we did, because we did, uh
2:48
Speaker 1: the Titanic episode last week, because you heard it was
2:50
Speaker 1: about we didn't know. I did not know that part
2:55
Speaker 1: about it. I thought it was like a swanky, cool
3:00
Speaker 1: like lounge. E. It's none of those words describe what
3:04
Speaker 1: it at all. It is. It's like even worse than
3:08
Speaker 1: a dive. Somehow, were there other people there when you went?
3:11
Speaker 1: There were very few other people there? Okay? Same? It
3:15
Speaker 1: was Yeah, I think that there might have been people there,
3:17
Speaker 1: but they also might have worked there. It wasn't clear.
3:19
Speaker 1: I thought it was freezing in there. It was freezing.
3:22
Speaker 1: There was one other group of diners there with us.
3:25
Speaker 1: It's like an Asian fusion restaurant that's shaped like Titanic
3:29
Speaker 1: and it there's a lot of laser jet printer pictures
3:34
Speaker 1: from the Titanic movie framed around the restaurant. My favorite
3:38
Speaker 1: part was they have if you're if, it's like an
3:41
Speaker 1: intimate like we started in one of these intimate boots,
3:44
Speaker 1: but it was like sticky everywhere, so we moved um
3:47
Speaker 1: to a much greasier greasier but they're Leonardo. But they
3:53
Speaker 1: had these little like rooms, those little weird compartments, and
3:57
Speaker 1: then there was one of them where there was just
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Speaker 1: like an unfinished wall, it is just like drywall, and
4:02
Speaker 1: then nailed to it was a poster for Curious George,
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Speaker 1: like the one that came out in two thousands six,
4:09
Speaker 1: and it was framed and that was my favorite one.
4:12
Speaker 1: I went there on a date because we heard there
4:13
Speaker 1: was frozen yogurt. I have received a text that was
4:16
Speaker 1: would you like to get from you on this at
4:18
Speaker 1: this restaurant that shaped like a boat, And I was like,
4:20
Speaker 1: I would love to. And then we got there and
4:23
Speaker 1: we went into one of they like led us into
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Speaker 1: one of those rooms. It was like huge and there
4:27
Speaker 1: was just two of us and we were very uncomfortable.
4:30
Speaker 1: And then we moved out into another area and I
4:33
Speaker 1: felt like the woman was upset that we did. But
4:36
Speaker 1: there was no frozen yogurt and stuff. We got sushi.
4:42
Speaker 1: Theories that they ordered sushi from a different restaurant and
4:45
Speaker 1: bring it deep because the pictures did not line up.
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Speaker 1: We got the Titanic role and the Jack Rose role.
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Speaker 1: The Titanic role in the picture was blue. What we
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Speaker 1: ate was not blue. I could have also just been
4:59
Speaker 1: like poor the printed menus. It was totally coloration. Really,
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Speaker 1: we would even be blue on a sushi roll. I
5:07
Speaker 1: thought maybe sprinkles. Well, either way, we went on a
5:14
Speaker 1: fun little date to Cafe Jack. We did. We had
5:18
Speaker 1: a great time. Good date. Um, we are here to
5:22
Speaker 1: talk about another movie that's not Titanic. Unfortunately, I just
5:25
Speaker 1: wish we could talk about it for every episode we might.
5:30
Speaker 1: There's more to be said. Uh yeah, there's a bunch
5:33
Speaker 1: of things that I wanted to say and I didn't say.
5:35
Speaker 1: But we'll get to that later on another Titanic episode.
5:39
Speaker 1: For now, we are here with Page and we're talking
5:42
Speaker 1: about the movie. Heathers. Yeah, so Paige tell us about like,
5:48
Speaker 1: why why did you pick this movie? What it means
5:50
Speaker 1: to you? When did you first see it? I picked
5:52
Speaker 1: it because I've seen it like a zillion times. Is
5:54
Speaker 1: one of my favorite movies in high school growing up.
5:56
Speaker 1: I just always loved it and it was just one
5:58
Speaker 1: of the first ones that came to mind. Yeah, when
6:01
Speaker 1: so you first saw when you were in high school
6:04
Speaker 1: maybe middle school? I was pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, I
6:07
Speaker 1: think I saw it first in like early high school,
6:10
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking it was like the coolest movie ever.
6:13
Speaker 1: I thought I had also seen it before, and then
6:17
Speaker 1: I rewatched it and nothing was familiar about it at all,
6:21
Speaker 1: Like part of me things that I might have seen
6:23
Speaker 1: an episode of that cartoon I think it's called Recess
6:26
Speaker 1: where they have all the different Ashley's, and I think
6:30
Speaker 1: I was confusing that for the movie Heathers. It was
6:33
Speaker 1: very different than I remembered like watching it. However, I
6:36
Speaker 1: guess almost ten years later is like it was like
6:39
Speaker 1: watching a totally different movie, and I didn't like it
6:41
Speaker 1: as much this time. It's like it made me feel weird.
6:44
Speaker 1: I don't know, but if I used to think it
6:46
Speaker 1: was the dopest thing ever that I wanted to, you know,
6:49
Speaker 1: in mouth. Yeah, I can kill my oppressors the whole day.
6:53
Speaker 1: Christians later is very charming. Yes, he's terrifying. He is
6:58
Speaker 1: so scary. Uh. And so when's the last time you
7:02
Speaker 1: saw it? I probably would have watched it, like maybe
7:05
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, but I feel like I've
7:07
Speaker 1: watched it so many times in my life. But I
7:10
Speaker 1: don't think I ever really even had a chance to
7:13
Speaker 1: get enough distance from it that i'd rewatch it and
7:15
Speaker 1: feel differently. I just always felt that, right, this is
7:18
Speaker 1: the best. Caitlin did not like, I don't like. Oh now,
7:22
Speaker 1: I don't know, because I started rewatching it again and
7:27
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, it's the first like half,
7:30
Speaker 1: isn't I feel like it falls apart at a certain
7:33
Speaker 1: point and then I have a really hard time connecting
7:36
Speaker 1: with any of the characters, and by the end, like
7:39
Speaker 1: no one is redeemable for me. But there are some
7:42
Speaker 1: like specific things I like about it. For example, I
7:45
Speaker 1: like that there's the running joke that any time someone
7:48
Speaker 1: is like addressing a Heather, they all know exactly which
7:52
Speaker 1: one she's talking about. Uh. I like that. I like
7:56
Speaker 1: a few different lines of dialogue, like yeah, the dial
8:00
Speaker 1: guess so fun. Has its own slang. Yeah, that's cool,
8:04
Speaker 1: it'll be very very what just very? But you know
8:09
Speaker 1: what they mean. Yeah, I know exactly what they mean.
8:12
Speaker 1: I very know what they mean. Good job, thank you
8:15
Speaker 1: you did it. One of my favorite lines of dialogue
8:18
Speaker 1: is did you have a brain tumor? For breakfast? So fun?
8:23
Speaker 1: So I like a few different like some of the
8:25
Speaker 1: running jokes are good and fun, but overall, I think
8:30
Speaker 1: my main problem with it is that I just don't
8:32
Speaker 1: find any of the characters redeemable enough for me to
8:36
Speaker 1: connect to the story, which I know is kind of
8:38
Speaker 1: the point. Like everyone's terrible in this movie, and the
8:43
Speaker 1: terrible see I think she is. And I know that
8:45
Speaker 1: I'm probably wrong about this. And I took to Facebook
8:48
Speaker 1: and I said, Hey, why people hated I was? And
8:55
Speaker 1: I tried to pose the question sincerely, and I think
9:00
Speaker 1: did not come off soundings sincere. But I was like, hey,
9:03
Speaker 1: just curious, why do you like this movie? Idiots? Uh? Yeah,
9:07
Speaker 1: I think that that was the part where you lost Um,
9:12
Speaker 1: I know I left out the idiots part. I was
9:14
Speaker 1: just like, why do you like this movie? And then
9:16
Speaker 1: I think it probably sounded very snarky, and then everyone
9:19
Speaker 1: got very mad. At me and they're like it's so brilliant. Well,
9:23
Speaker 1: I don't think that Veronica is a bad person. She
9:26
Speaker 1: just made me very sad a lot of the movie.
9:29
Speaker 1: And I think that I think she's like not, she's
9:32
Speaker 1: like dumb. She like there are so many parts of
9:35
Speaker 1: this movie where it's like, Okay, this this script has
9:38
Speaker 1: it's a very specific logic of how this world works.
9:41
Speaker 1: But there were some times where I'm like this, this
9:43
Speaker 1: girl is keeping an active diary of a number of melodies.
9:50
Speaker 1: What an insane thing to do. She could not be
9:52
Speaker 1: acting more guilty in school. Yeah, I think that's why
9:56
Speaker 1: high school is the ideal time to watch it, because
9:57
Speaker 1: you're like, I am also the dumb That's what I
10:00
Speaker 1: would do too. And I feel like that's like that's
10:03
Speaker 1: maybe why it's hard to like her, because she's a
10:05
Speaker 1: stupid teenager. Yeah, it's someone who has Like when I
10:09
Speaker 1: watched it in high school, I didn't think she was
10:10
Speaker 1: dumb at all. I thought she was like awesome. It
10:13
Speaker 1: was like, of course she's keeping a diary, yeah, want
10:18
Speaker 1: not only that she's seeing these other these friends of
10:21
Speaker 1: hers who are behaving horribly. They're like really mean, they're bullies.
10:26
Speaker 1: Basically not. Oh my god. There are parts when I
10:32
Speaker 1: think they're being mean to each other, but because I
10:34
Speaker 1: don't have a very good understanding of how croquet works,
10:37
Speaker 1: I'm like, I think they're being mean, but I don't
10:41
Speaker 1: know how this. Hey, can I try the summery this time? Yeah?
10:45
Speaker 1: Please do? Okay, okay, okay. So Heather's is a movie
10:48
Speaker 1: about four friends, three Heathers. One Veronica. Veronica is our
10:52
Speaker 1: pro tag She's she's not like the other girls. She's
10:55
Speaker 1: brunette and uh she but she hangs out with them.
11:02
Speaker 1: But she's isn't Shannon Darty. She's like technically like a
11:05
Speaker 1: red she's auburn. Yeah, and she's also like the most beliemic.
11:11
Speaker 1: Which that scene where when the writer makes she had
11:15
Speaker 1: a Darty throw up, I almost wish we got to
11:17
Speaker 1: see it. Anyways, Um, so they're like the most popular
11:20
Speaker 1: girls in school. They they you know, own everybody. And
11:23
Speaker 1: then Veronica meets Christians later don't remember his name, j
11:28
Speaker 1: D j D of course, who is like pretty much
11:31
Speaker 1: a standard uh nineties trench code killer who draws her
11:37
Speaker 1: into a very toxic, weird relationship and they start to
11:40
Speaker 1: kill everyone they don't like at the high school and
11:43
Speaker 1: it's a metaphor for something. Yeah, when they're framing it
11:46
Speaker 1: as suicides though, so they have to keep up this
11:50
Speaker 1: idea that the people are murdering have actually committed suicide. Right.
11:54
Speaker 1: There's one thing I thought was interesting, just to like,
11:57
Speaker 1: for just jump right into the gender stuff, is that
12:01
Speaker 1: the girls and boys at this high school are all
12:05
Speaker 1: equally stupid, which is nice because it would be very
12:09
Speaker 1: easy to be like, oh, like, you know, the heathers
12:11
Speaker 1: are so vapid and and secure and all this stuff,
12:13
Speaker 1: but like the the guys, like at any high school,
12:17
Speaker 1: are just as bad, uh, and just express it in
12:20
Speaker 1: different ways. So I liked that that was cool. Yeah,
12:22
Speaker 1: everyone's dumb, everyone, including the adults. Yeah, the adults are
12:27
Speaker 1: very dumb. They're those a few scenes where like the
12:30
Speaker 1: faculty are meeting about what to do about these students suicides,
12:34
Speaker 1: and the ones like let's just all hold hands and
12:37
Speaker 1: sing about love, and then everyone else is like, shut up,
12:40
Speaker 1: you're dumb, hippie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was that was weird.
12:44
Speaker 1: The reason that I don't really like Veronica is that
12:46
Speaker 1: she's seeing her friends display like this horrible behavior being
12:51
Speaker 1: bullies and like the Martha Dunstock character. They're very mean
12:55
Speaker 1: to her, and she sees this happening and you can
12:59
Speaker 1: tell she is uncomfortable with it, but she still is
13:02
Speaker 1: very like complicit in this behavior. And just like high schools,
13:06
Speaker 1: school is that you decide who is going to give
13:10
Speaker 1: you the most like social cachet. So like it reminds
13:14
Speaker 1: me sort of sort of similar to like freaks and geeks,
13:17
Speaker 1: like how Lindsay we Are starts hanging out with those
13:21
Speaker 1: cool kids and stops talking to her friend and she
13:23
Speaker 1: knows that, like she doesn't really know if it's like
13:26
Speaker 1: the morally right thing to do. Obviously, this is a
13:29
Speaker 1: more like cartoonish extreme version, but I get that of
13:34
Speaker 1: like you have people maybe you're friends with when you're younger,
13:37
Speaker 1: and you know that it's wrong to ditch them, but
13:39
Speaker 1: you also desperately want to be cool, and being friends
13:43
Speaker 1: with the Heather's allows Veronica to be cool and go
13:46
Speaker 1: to college parties and do whatever she thinks she's supposed
13:50
Speaker 1: to be doing to be like a cool kid. Yeah,
13:52
Speaker 1: Like watching those scenes with Martha, those are like so
13:56
Speaker 1: hard to watch because I don't know, like there is
13:59
Speaker 1: definitely a time and my high school experience where I
14:03
Speaker 1: could see myself doing that, and even though it's like
14:06
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm a bad person, but I think that,
14:09
Speaker 1: you know, if any I don't know, I just go
14:11
Speaker 1: back and like, man, if Samantha Honeywell's approval was on
14:15
Speaker 1: the line, I might be a real jackass to someone. Yeah,
14:19
Speaker 1: and he might even regret it immediately, but you would
14:21
Speaker 1: do it right right, because it's like the immediate social
14:25
Speaker 1: survival or whatever. Um. Yeah, that that was hard to watch,
14:29
Speaker 1: but I think it for me, it was like because
14:31
Speaker 1: it was real. Yeah, it hurt my feelings. I don't know.
14:36
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just a wonderful person who's never been mean anyone.
14:43
Speaker 1: That's definitely not true, but like I've been a dick
14:51
Speaker 1: to people, but I don't. I still just despite what
14:56
Speaker 1: I know about like people wanting to fit in and
14:57
Speaker 1: be with the popular kids and do anything to to
15:00
Speaker 1: elevate their social status, especially in high school, I just
15:03
Speaker 1: couldn't find Veronica to be redeemable at all. And maybe
15:08
Speaker 1: it's just because I hadn't seen it as a younger
15:11
Speaker 1: person and like just watched it recently. But god, she's
15:15
Speaker 1: supposed to be at sixteen or seventeen. Yeah, I think
15:17
Speaker 1: they're juniors. I think, yeah, I don't know. I I
15:21
Speaker 1: felt for Veronica. I mean, she's an idiot. She's the
15:24
Speaker 1: dumbest at certain parts, like that when when j D is,
15:30
Speaker 1: you know, convincing her to kill a second set of
15:32
Speaker 1: people they've already killed Heather and he's like, no, but
15:35
Speaker 1: this one is that these are German, but it's like
15:37
Speaker 1: the first one. He also makes it look like he
15:41
Speaker 1: was kidding and it was an accident too, right, it
15:44
Speaker 1: does she really It's well, it's two things. That's one.
15:47
Speaker 1: I think she probably at least partially knows that it's
15:50
Speaker 1: it's real, but like it's allowing her to have like
15:56
Speaker 1: an excuse like I didn't know. Yeah, I feel like
16:00
Speaker 1: she does kind of play dumb because I think she
16:02
Speaker 1: does potentially maybe want them dead, or at least she
16:06
Speaker 1: said so in her diary. She's also doing the same
16:08
Speaker 1: thing with j D that she does with the Heathers,
16:11
Speaker 1: where it's just next day or like now, this is
16:14
Speaker 1: what I think is cool, So I'm going to do
16:15
Speaker 1: whatever this person wants so I can keep hanging out
16:18
Speaker 1: with this person. And she does kind of hate them
16:23
Speaker 1: all my friends. It's one of my favorite I don't
16:26
Speaker 1: really like my friends. There's that, and right after the
16:30
Speaker 1: first Heather dies, she's like, oh my god, I killed
16:34
Speaker 1: my best friend, and Jad's like Andrew worst enemy, and
16:37
Speaker 1: she's like same difference, drama. I don't know. I feel
16:43
Speaker 1: like I was reading through my notes on the way
16:45
Speaker 1: over here and I was like, oh, I was slowly
16:49
Speaker 1: unraveling as I watched this movie, because I did watch
16:52
Speaker 1: this movie in a bus station, so that the WiFi
16:58
Speaker 1: in the bus station was great. Oh, but I didn't
17:00
Speaker 1: have my I you know, you know, like you look
17:03
Speaker 1: at something you wrote and you're like, oh, my butt
17:05
Speaker 1: was really sore when I was writing this. Um so there.
17:10
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like, this movie came out in nineteen eight,
17:15
Speaker 1: and it's weird. I don't know. There's like, there were
17:18
Speaker 1: a lot of parts of this movie that really like
17:20
Speaker 1: made me feel terrible and dare I say trigger triggered?
17:26
Speaker 1: I could see how many scenes in this movie would
17:28
Speaker 1: be triggering. I hate using that word seriously, but I
17:31
Speaker 1: think that might view then what was happening, because there's well,
17:35
Speaker 1: it's like two things. This came out in eight eight,
17:37
Speaker 1: and Christians Later is pretty much playing me. I dealized
17:41
Speaker 1: school shooter, like the fucking crazy, full on wearing a
17:45
Speaker 1: trench coat talking about you know this psychotic bullshit about
17:51
Speaker 1: you know, society and why everyone should just be fucking
17:55
Speaker 1: eradicated man whatever. And it's not anyone's fault, but it's
18:00
Speaker 1: is weird to watch this movie and and see um
18:03
Speaker 1: and like with the knowledge of how many similar things
18:07
Speaker 1: happened in like the twenty years after that movie came out,
18:12
Speaker 1: and like there were plenty of movies I feel like
18:14
Speaker 1: that came out that were very like teenager destructive stuff
18:18
Speaker 1: like that in like the eighties and nineties. But it
18:20
Speaker 1: was just I don't know, like certain things that he
18:22
Speaker 1: was saying. I was like, this feels like some Columbine ship,
18:26
Speaker 1: Like it just didn't At the time, it was like
18:28
Speaker 1: it's funny, but I didn't. I don't know, it was
18:31
Speaker 1: just weird to think about. I well, the scenes that
18:36
Speaker 1: I thought that you were maybe going to talk about
18:39
Speaker 1: regarding being triggered, the multiple scenes where a man is
18:47
Speaker 1: forcing himself on a woman and she's like violently fighting
18:51
Speaker 1: back and he's just like very aggressively trying to kiss
18:54
Speaker 1: her and or have sex with her. It happens I
18:57
Speaker 1: think at least three times with like three different sounds
19:00
Speaker 1: of characters. Um, that's see where Heather gives the blowjob
19:04
Speaker 1: to impress the college boys. So sad, sad, and then
19:08
Speaker 1: afterwards she like takes a drink of water and spits
19:11
Speaker 1: it on the mirror and it's like, oh dude, uck. Yeah,
19:15
Speaker 1: but that that one was dinner. I was just like, oh,
19:18
Speaker 1: I'll be sad. I know she's going to die. I'm
19:22
Speaker 1: having a really hard time processing this movie in terms
19:26
Speaker 1: of like what we talk about on this podcast. Usually
19:29
Speaker 1: so far the movies have been very like, oh, this
19:32
Speaker 1: movie objectively treats the women bad, like there's pretty much
19:36
Speaker 1: no question about it, or like this movie does a
19:39
Speaker 1: pretty good job. This one. I like don't really know
19:42
Speaker 1: how to what to say about it or how to
19:45
Speaker 1: discuss it because part of me is like, Okay, it
19:46
Speaker 1: boils down to this group of women who are very
19:50
Speaker 1: terrible to each other. They're best friends, but they also
19:53
Speaker 1: like hate each other and they bully each other. So
19:56
Speaker 1: that's like not a fun thing to see on screen,
19:58
Speaker 1: or like that's not a great way for women to
20:00
Speaker 1: be portrayed, because that is a huge trope where women
20:04
Speaker 1: are like women on women crime or hatred or violent
20:08
Speaker 1: or just like meanness is like never great. But I
20:12
Speaker 1: also think I'm missing the point when I watch this. Yeah,
20:17
Speaker 1: it's shitty and everyone in this movie is mean, Like
20:20
Speaker 1: I don't know. That didn't bother me too much, like
20:23
Speaker 1: the and and I feel like I don't know, like
20:25
Speaker 1: the scene where Heather goes down in the college boy,
20:28
Speaker 1: like it's written so that we know that it's not
20:31
Speaker 1: being endorsed, Like it looks wrong. Like nothing anyone does
20:35
Speaker 1: in this movie is being endorsed as the right thing
20:37
Speaker 1: to do, except maybe the ending that she cuts him
20:41
Speaker 1: out of her life, and like which is out to Martha, Um,
20:47
Speaker 1: oh my god when Martha speaks what happened? I guess
20:56
Speaker 1: part of why I don't I mean, just like watching
20:59
Speaker 1: so any like scene after scene, it's just hard to
21:02
Speaker 1: watch of like people being horrible at each other. I
21:05
Speaker 1: think it's just a big part of why I don't
21:07
Speaker 1: like this movie, just because I don't like that type
21:08
Speaker 1: of here's the fun thing they do a lot in
21:10
Speaker 1: this movie that made me laugh constantly. When Veronica and
21:13
Speaker 1: j D are about to kill someone, Uh, it's usually
21:16
Speaker 1: in the dead to night, and they're always yelling like
21:20
Speaker 1: kitchen someone they're about to murder. It happens like three
21:24
Speaker 1: separate times, and one time it's a dream. But for
21:27
Speaker 1: the most part they just walk in speaking at full volume, like,
21:31
Speaker 1: so what should we do? Do you want to put
21:32
Speaker 1: bleach in the coffee? What you want to do? And
21:35
Speaker 1: they immediately like that genuinely maybe laugh. Also steampunk alert,
21:41
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't notice, uh this, well, it's a reach.
21:45
Speaker 1: But when note rider wears a monocle for a lot
21:47
Speaker 1: of this movie, yes, that is pretty steam. This is
21:52
Speaker 1: our this is our episode. Lee. Reminder that we do
21:56
Speaker 1: not enduse steampunk or steampunk culture for yourself, Jamie, I
22:00
Speaker 1: love it. We I told you about. Okay, So this
22:04
Speaker 1: was actually the weekend when I saw this movie, when
22:06
Speaker 1: I saw that steampunk demonstration taking place in San Francisco,
22:11
Speaker 1: and I almost killed myself on the street. I was
22:14
Speaker 1: so mad. I think I've already mentioned this in another episode.
22:17
Speaker 1: But he was. The guy was wearing like a suede
22:20
Speaker 1: vest and goggles and he had these accordion stilts. It
22:24
Speaker 1: was horrifying. You did mention that. I know, I know,
22:28
Speaker 1: but this was it was really bad. I've got picks.
22:32
Speaker 1: I've got picks. But that was upsetting. It another trigger
22:36
Speaker 1: I'm so trigger hashtag trigger, but I do I This
22:40
Speaker 1: is a tough movie because you don't want to overthink
22:44
Speaker 1: what is very clearly like a satire black so many
22:48
Speaker 1: kind of thing. But I mean Veronic and j D's
22:52
Speaker 1: relationship is insane, like the way that it unfold and
22:56
Speaker 1: like how close it is to like real life abusive,
23:00
Speaker 1: horrible relationships. Like there were some points in the movie
23:04
Speaker 1: where because the guy who wrote this his name is
23:07
Speaker 1: Daniel Waters, straight white man, uh, and he was pretty
23:10
Speaker 1: young when he wrote it. He's like in his twenties,
23:12
Speaker 1: to the point where I'm like, does he fully realize
23:14
Speaker 1: like what he's doing? Like by there were certain lines
23:18
Speaker 1: that you know, I was just like, oh my god,
23:21
Speaker 1: Like it just is like a punch in the gut
23:22
Speaker 1: where Christians later saying things like you'll be back and
23:26
Speaker 1: and ship like that. What else is there? Oh where
23:30
Speaker 1: he basically says like you knew or like deep down
23:34
Speaker 1: what we were doing, which arguably could be true but
23:37
Speaker 1: also could be an extremely high level gaslight move. Um.
23:42
Speaker 1: Also upsetting is that you you realize that he's just
23:45
Speaker 1: been doing this for like his entire adolescence. Just going
23:48
Speaker 1: to different high schools, and that's why he's like, you'll
23:50
Speaker 1: be back because he's probably done that to other girls
23:53
Speaker 1: at other high schools right right. And it's like it's oh,
23:56
Speaker 1: there's another allusion to that too, where when they're writing
23:59
Speaker 1: the first us I note for Heather, he says something
24:02
Speaker 1: and she's like, oh, that's good. Have you done this before?
24:05
Speaker 1: And first the audience is like wow, but I don't know,
24:08
Speaker 1: and then we're like, oh, yeah, he probably has well.
24:11
Speaker 1: I think also a really interesting scene in the movie
24:13
Speaker 1: that I've forgot about us when you you meet his
24:16
Speaker 1: dad when she goes over to their house and you're like, fun,
24:20
Speaker 1: straight up like mom, like that that is a weird reveal. Yeah,
24:27
Speaker 1: oh yeah, you find out I think the next scene
24:30
Speaker 1: where you meet him that he is like basically coming
24:34
Speaker 1: in his pants about the demolition of a hotel that
24:36
Speaker 1: he really wanted to be demolished, and he's like, we
24:41
Speaker 1: got those bitches, and then he like shows a VHS
24:45
Speaker 1: tape of the hotel falling over and he's like, oh,
24:48
Speaker 1: this guy is also a crazy person, all right, which
24:51
Speaker 1: is an interesting movie move to be like. Listen, Christians
24:54
Speaker 1: later comes by this honestly, maybe give him a chance.
24:59
Speaker 1: It's like, no, he's still terrible. But well, but that's
25:02
Speaker 1: what makes the movie interesting is that you know, objectively,
25:04
Speaker 1: you're obviously like, run away from this guy. But it
25:07
Speaker 1: wouldn't be interesting if there were no intriguing qualities about
25:10
Speaker 1: him that make her like keep going back for sure.
25:14
Speaker 1: For instance, his dad is crazy and he is hot.
25:17
Speaker 1: Sometimes that it also was a motorcycle, doesn't That's pretty crucial.
25:21
Speaker 1: There's one line where he says all I need is
25:24
Speaker 1: like tequila in my sax. I wrote that down because
25:27
Speaker 1: I was like, if someone said that to me, I'd
25:29
Speaker 1: be very wet, would come immediately, especially in high school,
25:33
Speaker 1: would have really got me. Tequila in my sax. Come on.
25:37
Speaker 1: He loves classical music, he's a great guy, weird, he's
25:41
Speaker 1: not like the other boys. Well, and that's what like,
25:44
Speaker 1: part of what divides her from her friends is that
25:47
Speaker 1: they're all like he's weird, and she's like, yeah, that's cool.
25:51
Speaker 1: You guys just don't get it. And he's poised as
25:55
Speaker 1: being until he demonstrates these like very homicidal qualities part
26:00
Speaker 1: way through the movie. Before then you're like, yeah, I
26:02
Speaker 1: can totally see why she likes him. Think that if
26:07
Speaker 1: she didn't meet j D, she would have just wrote
26:10
Speaker 1: out the rest of high school being friends with the others,
26:13
Speaker 1: I would imagine, So I don't know, I mean, I
26:16
Speaker 1: could see her getting She seems pretty frustrated at the
26:18
Speaker 1: beginning of the movie, but maybe she would have found
26:21
Speaker 1: a less destructive She seems like so willing to go
26:26
Speaker 1: with whoever's influence that if she met someone who was
26:29
Speaker 1: like not a psychopath that she connected with, maybe things
26:32
Speaker 1: would have turned out fine. But I seem like she's
26:34
Speaker 1: kind of done with her friends at the beginning. I
26:35
Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, she was in a vulnerable place where
26:39
Speaker 1: this guy showing up it was really easy to just
26:42
Speaker 1: right like that could have been anyone, Like yeah, I mean,
26:45
Speaker 1: the thing is, I feel like, you know, when you
26:47
Speaker 1: watch high school movies or you think about high school
26:49
Speaker 1: in general, you think about like the groups, like people
26:52
Speaker 1: who actually did things as opposed to like I really
26:54
Speaker 1: relate to Veronica because I like didn't I didn't do
26:57
Speaker 1: anything in high school. I just was like a person.
27:00
Speaker 1: So you're that's the person that's super easy to just
27:03
Speaker 1: like latch onto different groups or people and make that
27:07
Speaker 1: your personality. I think that that's a really interesting thing.
27:11
Speaker 1: But I also I do think that if she didn't
27:14
Speaker 1: meet j D, she probably would have just stayed friends
27:16
Speaker 1: with them and been miserable until she graduated. Well, if
27:18
Speaker 1: it's anything like the movie Mean Girls, which is basically
27:22
Speaker 1: a two thousand's version of this movie, Uh, they're all juniors,
27:27
Speaker 1: but when they become seniors, they're like, oh, we're better
27:31
Speaker 1: than this now. I remember when we're not plastic. I
27:34
Speaker 1: was like, you, guys, this is just Heathers. You guys
27:37
Speaker 1: don't know. I thought it was very cool. There's another
27:41
Speaker 1: movie that came out in between the two draw Breaker
27:44
Speaker 1: that I feel like it's quite similar to us. Did
27:46
Speaker 1: you see it? It's about a movie, a movie about
27:50
Speaker 1: It's about a movie. How do you Talk again? Um?
27:52
Speaker 1: And apparently already a little drunk from this Hennessey. It's about, uh,
27:57
Speaker 1: this group of girlfriends who like pretend kidnapped their friend
28:02
Speaker 1: and like put a jawbreaker in her mouth and like
28:04
Speaker 1: tape it so that she doesn't talk because they're like
28:07
Speaker 1: playing some trick on her or something. But it's all
28:08
Speaker 1: very benign until she chokes on the jawbreaker and dies,
28:12
Speaker 1: and then they'll have to figure out what to do
28:15
Speaker 1: with her. Dude, I don't remember what happens after that,
28:18
Speaker 1: because it's been a very long time since I've seen it.
28:20
Speaker 1: Has anyone seen the Slenderman documentary yet? No, you gotta
28:25
Speaker 1: watch it. We can't do a factel test episode on
28:29
Speaker 1: it because it really happened. But it's about these two
28:33
Speaker 1: twelve year old girls who are like, we believe in
28:36
Speaker 1: Slenderman and they murder their friends. Oh, I know the
28:39
Speaker 1: story and the name of Slenderman. It, you know, for
28:42
Speaker 1: all its faults, it absolutely passes the vactel test, you know,
28:46
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of police interviews or they're just
28:49
Speaker 1: talking about the Slenderman murders. Slenderman as a man, but
28:55
Speaker 1: is he a real man? Does a count of peas
28:57
Speaker 1: of made up mythological man? I don't know. But I
29:00
Speaker 1: didn't realize that young girls were horny for slender Man
29:04
Speaker 1: and that's part of why they killed for him, which
29:06
Speaker 1: I was like, that's a whole another level. And also
29:10
Speaker 1: that all these murders tie back to a website called
29:13
Speaker 1: Creepy Pasta. That's great that I like, I didn't know
29:17
Speaker 1: that detail about him. I've seen the documentary twice. It's crazy.
29:21
Speaker 1: It's very good. Um Anyways, Oh, I wanted to talk
29:24
Speaker 1: about the guy who wrote the movie, um, because he
29:28
Speaker 1: weirdly has not done a lot since. Um. Hen There's
29:32
Speaker 1: was the first movie he ever wrote. He's written some
29:35
Speaker 1: other stuff. The biggest it got was Batman Returns in
29:39
Speaker 1: ninety two, and that is the one of the Tim
29:42
Speaker 1: Burton ones. Yeah, which is one which I would like
29:46
Speaker 1: to say is one degree removed from Joel Schumacher turned
29:51
Speaker 1: another Batman movies. That's our Schumacher check for this episode.
29:54
Speaker 1: I like how each episode we're piling on more and
29:57
Speaker 1: more more ritual things. We got him at and Titanic
30:00
Speaker 1: we got to mention. There's a lot of things. The
30:05
Speaker 1: last thing he wrote and directed was in two thousand
30:08
Speaker 1: fourteen and it was called Vampire, so sort of a
30:14
Speaker 1: fault from Grace for our pal Dan Waters, which is
30:18
Speaker 1: interesting because it's like there's such a specific movie and
30:22
Speaker 1: like the way it's written, it almost seems like he
30:24
Speaker 1: could have had like a John Hughesy kind of career
30:27
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, this is the guy that writes
30:30
Speaker 1: the subversive teens dark comedy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and but
30:35
Speaker 1: you know, and then the endgame is Vampire Academy, which,
30:38
Speaker 1: you know, maybe I shouldn't be talking. Maybe it's an
30:40
Speaker 1: amazing film. It could be here. Here's the thing, it
30:45
Speaker 1: most likely is not. Okay, well there wasn't a point
30:50
Speaker 1: to that. But except for I don't know, I'm always
30:52
Speaker 1: like a little bit leary of a straight white guy
30:56
Speaker 1: writing a movie about young women. UM, for sure, just
31:01
Speaker 1: because it's so easy to conflict fact fact in fiction.
31:04
Speaker 1: If you're returning to you know, the horny ist, most
31:07
Speaker 1: horrible part of your life, uh, and then trying to
31:10
Speaker 1: put yourself in the mind of the people you wanted
31:13
Speaker 1: to have sex with. Um, it just seems like a
31:15
Speaker 1: real challenge. But I I don't know, how did you feel?
31:20
Speaker 1: I mean, I felt like he did. I don't know.
31:23
Speaker 1: Like this movie is hard. It's very hard to talk
31:26
Speaker 1: about in this context. It is. I am also very
31:29
Speaker 1: wary of any like straight man who thinks that they
31:34
Speaker 1: can I mean, most of the main characters in this
31:37
Speaker 1: movie are women. I'm raising my hands because I found
31:40
Speaker 1: out something crazy. Tell Us Daniel Waters wrote Heathers. His
31:46
Speaker 1: brother Mark Waters directed Mean Girls in two thousand four.
31:51
Speaker 1: What the hell that's so weird? He also directed Freaky Friday,
31:55
Speaker 1: So he's just a low hand head wild There you go, guys.
32:01
Speaker 1: I mean I don't feel like to me, I don't
32:04
Speaker 1: think that the characters feel poorly written because they're written,
32:09
Speaker 1: especially because it's like, I mean, they're not really like
32:13
Speaker 1: women their children. Yeah, well they're also caricatures. And it's
32:20
Speaker 1: not just the women that are caricatures, it's everyone in
32:22
Speaker 1: a movie, right, And I think that that's why it
32:25
Speaker 1: ends up not really being a problem, because it's not
32:28
Speaker 1: like a deeply honest depiction of literally anyone. I think
32:32
Speaker 1: he sort of ends up being fine, although I will
32:35
Speaker 1: say if you look at a picture of him, now,
32:38
Speaker 1: crazy come over, insane, like who are you getting? That's
32:42
Speaker 1: very unfortunately, very bad Daniels, very very long. Yeah, not
32:47
Speaker 1: worth it. Oh boy. Oh there's a bunch of really
32:51
Speaker 1: fun Yellie thesis statement kind of dialogue lines, and towards
32:56
Speaker 1: the end of this movie is every other thing Christians
32:58
Speaker 1: later says is like, Okay, we get it, like you're
33:02
Speaker 1: you're a fucking angry young man. The society not to
33:06
Speaker 1: any horror the American teenager thinks to bring upon itself
33:10
Speaker 1: like grow up and uh what else like because the
33:14
Speaker 1: school is society and like that how everything is a
33:17
Speaker 1: fucking metaphor for It's it's very tenth grade English, the
33:21
Speaker 1: way he interprets the world and why I'm like, this
33:25
Speaker 1: is not a fucking Joyce Carol out short story, you
33:29
Speaker 1: nut bag. But I love them that. It's it's him
33:32
Speaker 1: saying all this ship to a girl who's just looking
33:36
Speaker 1: at him like he's a fucking idiot. Like like, if
33:39
Speaker 1: he was just saying that and we were just watching it,
33:42
Speaker 1: it would be like, maybe not great. But when it's
33:46
Speaker 1: posed like that where Veronica is just looking at him,
33:48
Speaker 1: like realizing that he has been this idiot the whole time,
33:51
Speaker 1: it's is pretty powerful. What's the line? The line what
33:54
Speaker 1: do I you know what I need? JD? Cool guys
33:57
Speaker 1: like you out of my life or whatever? This is
34:00
Speaker 1: just I love that. I love the like, yeah, you're
34:02
Speaker 1: a real cool guy. Dude, Like he knows about convenience
34:06
Speaker 1: store snacks. That's like what gets Veronica to like him.
34:11
Speaker 1: She's like, you know your convenience stores speech because he's
34:15
Speaker 1: been a lot of places. Yeah, that's like a like
34:17
Speaker 1: his motorcycle. He's a little riff raff, straight rat. I
34:20
Speaker 1: like it like he um, no, yeah, I got convenience
34:30
Speaker 1: Sturf food on my way over here. Guys, when I
34:32
Speaker 1: was getting my card lemonade and stopped at silver Lake
34:36
Speaker 1: seven eleven, did they know me there? And I got
34:40
Speaker 1: I ordered pizza so bad they didn't make me pay
34:42
Speaker 1: for it, like disgusting, and it was disgusting, And he
34:46
Speaker 1: was like, on the house, take it, congratulations, you look
34:50
Speaker 1: like you really need I need. It's like you look hungry,
34:54
Speaker 1: my friends. Going back to the relationship that Veronica and
34:59
Speaker 1: j D have, the way it starts is that like
35:02
Speaker 1: he just crawls into her window having met her. I
35:05
Speaker 1: think prince from a fairy tale. I was like, okay,
35:11
Speaker 1: I would have loved that. I would have left that.
35:14
Speaker 1: You know, when you're a teenager, nothing is cooler than
35:17
Speaker 1: sneaking through a window. They do it in Gilmore Girl.
35:20
Speaker 1: I think I had a very different high school experience
35:23
Speaker 1: than most people than Gilmore Girls. And also my parents
35:28
Speaker 1: didn't dislike any of my high school boyfriends, so there
35:31
Speaker 1: was no there was no window climbing. Also, we didn't
35:33
Speaker 1: have doors in my house for some reason, so window
35:35
Speaker 1: climbing would not have gone well. But you didn't have doors.
35:38
Speaker 1: There were no doors. I mean there was a front
35:40
Speaker 1: door and a back door, but no one's bedrooms had doors,
35:43
Speaker 1: even like doors to your bedrooms, there was like no
35:45
Speaker 1: door open bathrooms, no doors bathrooms. There were doors, but
35:49
Speaker 1: they were broken. You had to jam something up against them.
35:53
Speaker 1: That is crazy, I know, especially because when my little
35:57
Speaker 1: brother did learn how to masturbate, he did not exercise
36:00
Speaker 1: is any discretion in spite of the fact that there
36:02
Speaker 1: were no doors, So he would just be going at
36:04
Speaker 1: it and you'd walk past. And that was a hard
36:06
Speaker 1: summer for me, like my first summer back from college
36:11
Speaker 1: and my brother had hit puberty. Why were there doors
36:13
Speaker 1: in your house? There were no doors. I don't know.
36:16
Speaker 1: I don't there's to this day, there's no doors. Wow,
36:20
Speaker 1: there was no I mean my parents weren't fucking so
36:23
Speaker 1: there were no doors. I don't know. I'm baffled. I
36:25
Speaker 1: don't know if anyone's ever had sex in my house. Um,
36:29
Speaker 1: I mean I started to like pause to think about it.
36:32
Speaker 1: I'm like, why would I know the Actually, Okay, i'd
36:36
Speaker 1: a house, Jamie, I've gotten to I met your mom.
36:39
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, wait, what's her name again? Jill?
36:42
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, Jill, do you mind if I
36:44
Speaker 1: come over and hang out. I didn't have sex with
36:46
Speaker 1: your mom, but I brought someone else sex with someone,
36:51
Speaker 1: and she did walk in on us because there were
36:53
Speaker 1: no doors. But well I got walked in on once
36:56
Speaker 1: in my house. My brother almost caught me like trying
37:00
Speaker 1: to lose my virginity, and obviously we had to stop,
37:03
Speaker 1: and then he threw up. He was so upset. It
37:09
Speaker 1: was just no more running card, no more Runnington parties
37:12
Speaker 1: for you know, if my brother was used like, I
37:15
Speaker 1: just wanted to root here and then he threw up
37:17
Speaker 1: on the floor. I know, it's like, that's a little dramatic, Jamie,
37:22
Speaker 1: this isn't insane. I need to talk to your parents
37:25
Speaker 1: about whether or no doors to bedrooms. We were like
37:28
Speaker 1: in my living room because it didn't matter there were
37:30
Speaker 1: no doors. Trying to lose your riginity anywhere and you
37:33
Speaker 1: already equal risk. Oh anyway, so he crowls through a
37:39
Speaker 1: door and they have they play strip croquet. I don't
37:43
Speaker 1: know why croquet is such again, it's probably another like
37:46
Speaker 1: maybe it's just a mote for me clueless. Yeah, yeah,
37:51
Speaker 1: I don't know what. Yeah, that's just like a thing
37:53
Speaker 1: that popular girls did it seems to exist in a
37:56
Speaker 1: very specific period of movies. Yeah. I certainly didn't relate
37:59
Speaker 1: to the croquet spect Yeah, but it seemed to go
38:02
Speaker 1: with their jackets. It totally worked with their outfits. It
38:05
Speaker 1: did color coordinate. That was what most of their decisions
38:08
Speaker 1: were based on. Is what whatever whatever one with her outfits? Um,
38:14
Speaker 1: all right, what else do we say about this? Though?
38:18
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I have anything else to
38:20
Speaker 1: say about it, just that he It was just jarring
38:23
Speaker 1: to me that he He's introduced as this like cool
38:26
Speaker 1: subversive guy who's like gonna take her out of this
38:30
Speaker 1: click that she's in and she doesn't have to be
38:32
Speaker 1: with these horrible heathers anymore. And then that's not where
38:34
Speaker 1: the story goes at all. He helps smart, helps her
38:37
Speaker 1: murder people that she doesn't like. I do like that
38:40
Speaker 1: the weird rape jot guys um get murdered because I
38:44
Speaker 1: feel like they had it coming. I like that too.
38:46
Speaker 1: And we got to talk about I love my dad
38:48
Speaker 1: gay son. That's a great line. How beautiful that the
38:54
Speaker 1: dad accepts him. Yeah, that was a fun one. I
39:00
Speaker 1: like the nerd who spits out milk, and almost every
39:03
Speaker 1: scene that he's in remember that guy there, you see
39:09
Speaker 1: it once whenever, like the main Heather, the red Heather.
39:13
Speaker 1: I'm going to call her the red I don't know
39:14
Speaker 1: their last names. Shannon, that's shand Alardy No, that's uh no,
39:19
Speaker 1: there not the red head wear, the red wearing alf
39:23
Speaker 1: the one that dies. Yes, yes, she wouldn't have done that.
39:30
Speaker 1: She looks at this nerd guy and then they make
39:32
Speaker 1: contact and he spits out all this milk and then
39:35
Speaker 1: it happens again later on. I forget what prompts him
39:37
Speaker 1: that time, but he um just spews milk everywhere. Was
39:41
Speaker 1: anyone else like really surprised In the first scene Christian
39:44
Speaker 1: Slaters in where you like fall in love with him
39:47
Speaker 1: in a very short amount of time and then he
39:49
Speaker 1: has a gun. Yeah, She's like, whoa this guy? He
39:53
Speaker 1: just said like all I need is tequila in my sacks.
39:56
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm ready to marry him. And then he
39:58
Speaker 1: pulls out a gun and shoots two people, presumably dead,
40:02
Speaker 1: until the next scene when they're like, oh, he used
40:04
Speaker 1: blanks and that's why she's always like, oh, he probably
40:07
Speaker 1: always used blanks. Yeah, I guess I got it. I
40:10
Speaker 1: got it. I think there's just too many moments like
40:14
Speaker 1: that where my my disbelief cannot be suspended. I think
40:18
Speaker 1: that's another problem why I just like, there are things
40:21
Speaker 1: about this movie I like, but I can't like it
40:23
Speaker 1: as a whole because of those few reasons, the characters,
40:28
Speaker 1: and then like, there's so many things I can't suspend
40:31
Speaker 1: my disbelief for. And yeah, it's a satire, it's a
40:34
Speaker 1: dark comedy, it's not meant to be taken so seriously,
40:39
Speaker 1: but I can't. I still don't enjoy watching it. I
40:42
Speaker 1: think it's also tough if you are watching it for
40:44
Speaker 1: the first time. Now, yes, and my own as woman.
40:47
Speaker 1: It's one of those things that, like she says, I
40:52
Speaker 1: think there are certain things that you grow up with
40:54
Speaker 1: that you hesitate to always fully recommend to people because
40:57
Speaker 1: you're like, well, I have a very specific like I
41:00
Speaker 1: think about, like I loved I also loved the movie
41:02
Speaker 1: ghost World, and so I always love that movie. But
41:06
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would be like, you have
41:08
Speaker 1: to see ghost World, where even though I love it's
41:10
Speaker 1: like how I you know, I love supe Plantation, but
41:13
Speaker 1: I don't expect anyone else too. It's just because I
41:15
Speaker 1: grew up with it, you know, Well, this movie is
41:17
Speaker 1: such like a cult. But also I think that's as good. Yeah,
41:23
Speaker 1: but I think it it's sort of like Okay, it's like, um,
41:25
Speaker 1: like I don't really feel affected when I watched Monty
41:28
Speaker 1: Python because I never was like a teenage boy who
41:30
Speaker 1: watched it. I'll never feel like I've got a big
41:34
Speaker 1: old herd on for Monty Python the Holy Grail. Yeah,
41:37
Speaker 1: I just never watched it growing up, so I don't
41:39
Speaker 1: feel anything for it now. Like I'm like, I can
41:41
Speaker 1: see objectively like this is a value, but I don't
41:45
Speaker 1: connect to it. I feel that way about Pepe's Playhous
41:48
Speaker 1: And then I'm like, I'm not going to make you
41:49
Speaker 1: watch Pepe's Playhouse, but like you should watch it. I
41:54
Speaker 1: tried to launch. I got thirty seconds into it and
41:57
Speaker 1: had to shut it off. His voice is so grating
42:05
Speaker 1: about friends. You just you just couldn't be more wrong.
42:08
Speaker 1: But it's you're my friend. I mean, yeah, we all
42:13
Speaker 1: have movies that we like. I mean, I like the
42:16
Speaker 1: movie Stomp the Yard. Is it a good movie? But
42:22
Speaker 1: there are movies that like if like, I'm not mad
42:24
Speaker 1: at you for not liking Heathers. There are movies that
42:27
Speaker 1: I'd be like, what the funk is wrong with you? Yeah,
42:31
Speaker 1: I guess what others. It depends on, like what point
42:33
Speaker 1: in your life it arrived to you. I also think
42:37
Speaker 1: when I took to the internet and most people were
42:39
Speaker 1: slaughtering me, a lot of people were like, okay, I
42:42
Speaker 1: can see it. Like the time that it came out,
42:45
Speaker 1: it was sort of the first movie if it's kind
42:49
Speaker 1: like there hadn't really been a dark teen comedy like that,
42:55
Speaker 1: Like they don't others that you can point to afterwards.
42:58
Speaker 1: That's something I was thinking about, how you said that
43:00
Speaker 1: he didn't really make anything else afterwards. I wonder if
43:02
Speaker 1: people we're not interested and more well, I think like
43:06
Speaker 1: we said kind of alluded to before, like mean Girls
43:09
Speaker 1: and job Breakers were influenced by Heathers. I imagine I
43:13
Speaker 1: Mean Girls is like in so many ways a copy
43:15
Speaker 1: of Heathers. Yeah. Just okay, wait, I'm looking for this
43:19
Speaker 1: status you made about Heathers because I would really okay,
43:22
Speaker 1: this is you. I'm sorry. I was about to Can
43:26
Speaker 1: someone explain the movie Heathers to me? Why do people
43:29
Speaker 1: like it? Is there an extended metaphor that I'm missing?
43:33
Speaker 1: There's Okay, that's probably how people read it. Here's how
43:36
Speaker 1: I meant it. That's how I interpreted it. I think
43:39
Speaker 1: that's how everyone entered. I did not like or comment
43:42
Speaker 1: it makes sense. I'm usually like very mean and snarky
43:47
Speaker 1: on my Facebook posts. But the way I actually intended
43:51
Speaker 1: it was, Hey, guys, friends, can so you meant it
43:56
Speaker 1: like I'm sorry to bother you? But why do people
44:01
Speaker 1: like it? Is there an extended metaphor missing? Exactly? That's
44:04
Speaker 1: not happy? Can you want? Someone explained them. That's honestly, wow?
44:11
Speaker 1: Is it got oh? How many? Just one? Just the one?
44:14
Speaker 1: But one while eighteen or nineteen likes, which honestly some
44:20
Speaker 1: people well, some people were on board with you, slater sucks, uh,
44:25
Speaker 1: said one person. Some one person said the musical is fun?
44:28
Speaker 1: Did another was some musical? There's one really probably didn't
44:32
Speaker 1: need to be. But there was no need to write
44:34
Speaker 1: multiple paragraphs about this movie. I will say. Someone said,
44:38
Speaker 1: you're wrong and you're being awful about it. Oh my god,
44:43
Speaker 1: because their name had there No, it was a man.
44:47
Speaker 1: It was a Boston comic who Oh well, I guarantee
44:52
Speaker 1: I could beat him up and kill him musing only
44:54
Speaker 1: my hands and make it look like a suicide exactly.
44:59
Speaker 1: All starcull bade be Um, I don't know. Lots of
45:02
Speaker 1: people seem to People say it's funny, it's funny. I
45:07
Speaker 1: laughed at moments there at three likes. It's funny, it's funny.
45:11
Speaker 1: There's good dialogue. Is it sloppily written? Yeah, yeah it is.
45:15
Speaker 1: I would have taken another pass to the screenplay. That's
45:17
Speaker 1: just me. Oh can I read something else he wrote?
45:22
Speaker 1: But like in the way I interpreted it. Okay, So,
45:26
Speaker 1: a very nice, straight white man who we both know
45:29
Speaker 1: a great guy, wrote out a very measured explanation of
45:33
Speaker 1: why he felt people liked Heather, and then you said,
45:37
Speaker 1: I mainly don't like it because for me, there isn't
45:40
Speaker 1: a single likable or redeemable, redeemable character in the whole movie.
45:45
Speaker 1: Like maybe that's the point, and it's like, Caitlin, calm down.
45:50
Speaker 1: This comment has no likes. Yeah, people really did not
45:57
Speaker 1: care from you keep going. I don't like most modern comedies.
46:03
Speaker 1: I do appreciate that this movie is dark and more
46:05
Speaker 1: subversive than most key cutter modity. This is fun. I
46:10
Speaker 1: do sound like a no. If you read anyone's Facebook
46:15
Speaker 1: comment that way, it would be fun. I'm going to
46:17
Speaker 1: start doing that just to keep myself honest about my
46:19
Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings. Yeah, reading that voice before you post it.
46:23
Speaker 1: Something I've had fun doing is reading Bible versus really
46:26
Speaker 1: sarcastically like they're super still, like reading psalms like, um,
46:32
Speaker 1: if you start any psalm with um, actually, I've take
46:36
Speaker 1: on a whole new meeting. Cool. Well, do you guys
46:40
Speaker 1: think ultimately that it does pass? Definitely passed, almost the
46:44
Speaker 1: first scene with all the heathers that passes. It passes,
46:49
Speaker 1: especially the first like in the first act, especially when
46:52
Speaker 1: they're all still hanging out a lot before people start dying. Uh,
46:57
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of scenes where it passes. They're talking.
47:00
Speaker 1: There's somewhere they're talking that women are talking, but it's
47:02
Speaker 1: it is about uh j D or someone. But um, Yeah,
47:07
Speaker 1: they talk about all kinds of things. They talk about bulimia.
47:10
Speaker 1: They talk about the lunchtime pole, which is a classic.
47:16
Speaker 1: I did like the lunchtime Pole. I remember seeing that
47:18
Speaker 1: in high school and being like, we should do that.
47:20
Speaker 1: It seems fun. The question that they posed, though, is
47:23
Speaker 1: so stupid it's infurious, And I wrote it down because
47:27
Speaker 1: I was like, well, that's a pretty well thought out
47:28
Speaker 1: question for someone so young. You inherit a million dollars
47:33
Speaker 1: two days before the aliens blow the world up? What
47:36
Speaker 1: do you do? Yeah? I think that Oh what would
47:41
Speaker 1: you do? Oh? Wait, I was I wrote down what
47:44
Speaker 1: everyone answered that question with the concept was that you
47:48
Speaker 1: win the money. But you know, you know the world's
47:51
Speaker 1: gonna end and you have the money, so Calin will
47:54
Speaker 1: pose it to you first, because I just read all
47:56
Speaker 1: your Facebook stays is very rudely. You inher a million
48:00
Speaker 1: dollars two days before aliens blow the world up, and like,
48:03
Speaker 1: you know that the world's going to blow up in
48:05
Speaker 1: two days? What do you do it? First of all,
48:07
Speaker 1: it's five million dollars. Sorry to be I'm sorry. I
48:11
Speaker 1: was in a bus station. What a certain damage fund?
48:16
Speaker 1: Me gently with the chainsaws? I guess with only two
48:24
Speaker 1: days to live, I don't know. I would just kill
48:28
Speaker 1: myself knowing that things would from the aliens. Oh, that
48:33
Speaker 1: hadn't even occurred to me. I guess if like with
48:37
Speaker 1: five million dollars, that was somehow enough resources to stop
48:41
Speaker 1: the aliens, sure I would do that. But if if
48:44
Speaker 1: it's like if certain death is coming, I would just
48:47
Speaker 1: get it over with right away, and I or maybe
48:49
Speaker 1: I'd be like, hey, does anyone want to commit a murder?
48:51
Speaker 1: And then you can frame it as my suicide if
48:54
Speaker 1: you want page what JD. I don't know. I mean, like,
49:00
Speaker 1: what can you really do a value because it's like,
49:02
Speaker 1: you know, you want to say like you'd give it
49:04
Speaker 1: to charity or whatever, but it's like charity cancering with
49:06
Speaker 1: it in two days, like you like you're going to
49:09
Speaker 1: feed the hungry, like they're just gonna die anyway. Like
49:12
Speaker 1: I guess you try and maybe give people some sense
49:15
Speaker 1: of joy before they nice, but like, how do you
49:18
Speaker 1: do that? Like what would you do? Jamie? I would
49:24
Speaker 1: invest it all and then be like, guys, we should
49:27
Speaker 1: really invest in these companies as a joke because I
49:32
Speaker 1: would know what they don't. I think it's her former
49:34
Speaker 1: friend Betty Finn, poor Betty Finn. I feel like the
49:39
Speaker 1: character and freakin geks, Like really, man, I've been on
49:45
Speaker 1: both sides of that. Yeah, yeah, I guess we all have. Yeah, man,
49:50
Speaker 1: that people grow out of each other. It's sad, it's gross,
49:53
Speaker 1: and that's like the high school. I feel like it's
49:55
Speaker 1: the primary time for that. You don't know who you
49:58
Speaker 1: want to bring together forever? Cardless of whether we like
50:01
Speaker 1: each other or not. You can only do that if
50:02
Speaker 1: you're in band. I don't understand. Yeah, that's true. Yeah,
50:05
Speaker 1: we gotta bring up your O bow. That's another thing
50:07
Speaker 1: that we have to talk about it talking about with
50:08
Speaker 1: my band friends today. Sent her a letter in the mail.
50:12
Speaker 1: Um said, you used to play the clarinet as a joke.
50:14
Speaker 1: I know she doesn't. That's nice though, he reached out.
50:19
Speaker 1: Can I read a psalm? Yes? Oh, But the reason
50:23
Speaker 1: I brought up Betty Finn is that, Um, the answer
50:26
Speaker 1: she gives is to just like spend the money on
50:28
Speaker 1: throwing a big bash right before everyone dies. And that's
50:31
Speaker 1: probably the best way which is to do it. I mean,
50:34
Speaker 1: if you're all gonna die, just like have like have fun.
50:37
Speaker 1: There was no drunk And maybe this is like reductive
50:41
Speaker 1: of me, but I was like, there was nothing like
50:44
Speaker 1: that looked wrong with her. She seemed like a normal
50:48
Speaker 1: I don't know, she even knows how to play. Definitely,
50:52
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with her. She's just just like, yeah, she
50:56
Speaker 1: just doesn't like cool in the right way. Right. Yeah,
50:59
Speaker 1: there there's just been missing. Poor Betty. She lived, but
51:02
Speaker 1: also she's fine ultimately not poor Betty. I'll probably grew
51:06
Speaker 1: up to be you know, she has a PhD. Now, Yeah,
51:10
Speaker 1: she didn't have any crazy traumatic experiences because she wasn't
51:14
Speaker 1: trying to be cool. She's a woman in stem now
51:17
Speaker 1: and it's wild because we need more of those. Um. Okay,
51:20
Speaker 1: I just wanted to But you're reading a psalm? Is
51:23
Speaker 1: that how you say it? Salm? Yeah? I've never been
51:26
Speaker 1: to church of a palm. I'm sorry. The s is
51:31
Speaker 1: silent um? Are we Is there anything else we need
51:35
Speaker 1: to talk about before I read a psalm? Maybe this
51:36
Speaker 1: will be a fun new way to close this show. Yeah,
51:39
Speaker 1: all the hands and closed her eyes. Please not ever again,
51:44
Speaker 1: but this time I permit you. Okay, just that if
51:47
Speaker 1: we all calm down a little bit impossible, but okay,
51:51
Speaker 1: and we're gonna pray. Okay. So um, the Lord is
51:57
Speaker 1: my shepherd. He leads me in the paths of righteousness.
52:03
Speaker 1: I will fear no evil. I will dwell in the
52:06
Speaker 1: house of the Lord forever. That's great, Jesus, thank you
52:14
Speaker 1: so much. That was wonderful. Thank you. Yeah, do we
52:21
Speaker 1: need to cover anything else? Welded that it does pass
52:25
Speaker 1: the BacT to test a bunch of different times for
52:27
Speaker 1: sure on that. But it's just a confusing movie in
52:31
Speaker 1: general to analyze. It's just it's a tricky one. Well
52:34
Speaker 1: it's like I mean, because it's like, you know, it
52:37
Speaker 1: portrays these girls realistically, but it's not in a nice way.
52:41
Speaker 1: So that's tough. Like, obviously, ideally you want something that
52:44
Speaker 1: portrays women behaving maturely and cool. I think it portrays
52:50
Speaker 1: certain aspects of certain people realistically, but the characters still
52:54
Speaker 1: are so they're pretty one dimensional. And so it's definitely
52:59
Speaker 1: like an uncanny valley of like everyone's bad traits, regardless
53:05
Speaker 1: of gender come out way faster and wave like in
53:08
Speaker 1: a more obvious way than it would in real life.
53:10
Speaker 1: But well, don't know, it's not really a gender issue
53:13
Speaker 1: in this movie. Terrible. High schoolers are dumb. Yeah, I
53:18
Speaker 1: think we can all agree on that they suck. Sorry,
53:21
Speaker 1: if we have any high school fans, shout out to
53:23
Speaker 1: high schoolers. Yeah, if you're listening to this, then you
53:26
Speaker 1: are cool. What stay cool? What is up? Yeah? You
53:32
Speaker 1: get some you get a lot to look forward to.
53:35
Speaker 1: You got a lot of life to live my friends. Yeah,
53:38
Speaker 1: tweet at us, tweet tweet and faith. Thank you high
53:42
Speaker 1: school there. So uh, once again, page, thanks for being here.
53:49
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. I love talking about Heathers. We
53:52
Speaker 1: conclude each episode by rating the movie in the context
53:56
Speaker 1: of its portrayal of the women in it. Boy do
54:00
Speaker 1: we do we do? This is a hard one. It's
54:03
Speaker 1: a really hard one, and my judgment is going to
54:07
Speaker 1: be clouded because I just don't really like this movie.
54:09
Speaker 1: But because we've had some hennessy and yeah, well not
54:13
Speaker 1: that much. I finished my Mike's hard good. Yeah, well,
54:16
Speaker 1: thank you. Um, I'm going to give it two and
54:21
Speaker 1: a half stars. And here's why do we have what
54:25
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm drunk goes stars that we read
54:37
Speaker 1: it on a scale of zero to five nipples. We
54:40
Speaker 1: described the nipples yeah, um, two and a half because
54:47
Speaker 1: I like that it's like a movie about women and
54:50
Speaker 1: the women are the driving force largely. But I just
54:53
Speaker 1: don't like any of them. But so let me just
54:56
Speaker 1: feel very conflicted. I don't know. Maybe I'll change my
54:59
Speaker 1: mind later, but right now, it's two and a half nipples.
55:02
Speaker 1: Two of them belong to I think his name is Ram,
55:06
Speaker 1: one of the football jocks, very very very small, tiny nipples.
55:11
Speaker 1: Great name for high school jock. And then the other
55:16
Speaker 1: one belongs to Christians. Later. The other half nipples is
55:21
Speaker 1: Christians Laters and it's smooth and it's nice nice. Okay, Um,
55:28
Speaker 1: I guess it is. It is tough to rate because
55:32
Speaker 1: they are children, not really like women, but so I
55:37
Speaker 1: guess I would even though I love this movie, I
55:39
Speaker 1: would probably give it like three nipples, but they're like
55:43
Speaker 1: it's like one of um, they're like brown, like nice nipples. Yeah,
55:49
Speaker 1: I give it three nipples and one song. Um. Okay,
55:54
Speaker 1: can I say what the song is? You can? I
55:57
Speaker 1: just want to do another Okay, Okay. My soul waits
56:00
Speaker 1: for God alone. He alone is my rock and my salvation.
56:05
Speaker 1: Trust in Him at all times. Oh, people, power and
56:09
Speaker 1: love belong to God. Indeed, as we bray, I give
56:12
Speaker 1: a three nipples, they all belong to the dad who's
56:15
Speaker 1: proud of his gay son. Oh, I want mine to
56:19
Speaker 1: belong to the dad who says I don't patronize bunny rabbits. Well,
56:24
Speaker 1: we forgot about that dad. That's Veronica's dad. Veronica's parents.
56:29
Speaker 1: We did not talk about their what was going on
56:31
Speaker 1: with They have no personality. I like when when her
56:37
Speaker 1: mom thinks that Veronica has committed suicide and she walks
56:41
Speaker 1: in the first thing she says is I wish I'd
56:43
Speaker 1: let you get that joke at the mall whoever. And
56:47
Speaker 1: I'm just like, really, this is how you're reacting to
56:50
Speaker 1: the That's the other thing. No one reacts in a
56:52
Speaker 1: way that I can believe at all, Like, no one
56:54
Speaker 1: is devastated by or feeling guilt about having committed these murders.
56:59
Speaker 1: It's just sing to me. Yeah, it's weird that it's
57:01
Speaker 1: like elevated to like, oh, the Heathers are everything, but
57:04
Speaker 1: then one of them does and like no one cares.
57:06
Speaker 1: But but that's the point. Yeah, everyone's just like, who's
57:10
Speaker 1: going to be the new one? Right? She wasn't important?
57:13
Speaker 1: Is important? Yeah? Maybe that's why they're all named Heather.
57:19
Speaker 1: Does matter who you are as an individual, It just
57:23
Speaker 1: matters that you are a Heather. Deep. I love it.
57:27
Speaker 1: I'm very smart. I'm sweating. It's so hot I am. Yeah. Um, well,
57:38
Speaker 1: I think that it's time to go a song like
57:46
Speaker 1: a psalm A psalm. I think we've done enough psalms
57:49
Speaker 1: for today, unless you'd like another, I've got more. Let's
57:52
Speaker 1: gave it for the next time. I think I'll let
57:54
Speaker 1: another one happen. Really yeah, um, hey, pages there anything
58:00
Speaker 1: you want to plug or where can people find you
58:02
Speaker 1: on the internet. Um, you can follow me on Twitter
58:05
Speaker 1: at page Weldon, and you can visit my website at
58:08
Speaker 1: higgs ballon dot com. We have fun comedy articles and stuff,
58:12
Speaker 1: and we have a show at the Improv Lab febr
58:15
Speaker 1: ten pm yea for love it. You can follow us
58:20
Speaker 1: at becktel Cast on Twitter. You can write to us
58:23
Speaker 1: via email. Has never done that, not yet, so I
58:27
Speaker 1: really encourage people to email us at the Bechtel Cast
58:32
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com just about anything about anything, anything
58:35
Speaker 1: you want. And then, um, we also have a Facebook.
58:39
Speaker 1: We can check that out and like it. So there
58:43
Speaker 1: you go. Alright, guys, keep reading that Bible and I
58:46
Speaker 1: keep doing the right thing. Yeah, so yeah bye