Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 105: Simone Ragusi - How to Make the Move From Player to Coach: Mentorship and Growth in Italy and Ireland

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105: Simone Ragusi - How to Make the Move From Player to Coach: Mentorship and Growth in Italy and Ireland · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: As an Englishman, I do have to interject here and say well, come on, surely England was on your list.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think so, because England is priming so many sports.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: If you get me, england is just too good in too many sports and Ireland has only rugby.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: If you go in Dublin Irish, don't take me wrong, but I'd say it primes in the world only in rugby.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Elite athletes are still people after all.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Simone, welcome to the Second Wind Academy podcast.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: It's great to have you on here today.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you very much.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you, I appreciate your invitation and I'd say buongiorno because I'm Italian and even though I'm in Ireland now.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Well, that's great.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Well, maybe we'll have to test your mastery of the Gaelic language a bit later on.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Let's see how we go.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I got something.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I got something I like to learn when I'm going around.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Sometimes Irish people get surprised about me knowing I know 15, 20 words, but it's enough to surprise a person in Ireland.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: That's very true.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: That's good.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: It's better than me.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, slán.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Slán to all the Irish means hello.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Good man, that's it, better than what I've got.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: And I spent just over half a year living in Ireland, over in Limerick, so I don't think I have any Gaelic left in me, but I'm sure it's there somewhere in my blood.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have forgotten all of it.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: So certainly the memories and the people, yeah.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, perhaps we will continue to reminisce about my time in Ireland, but for the purpose of of this conversation that we're having now, let's understand a bit more about you and go through, perhaps, the transition that you've gone through, or indeed are going through, after being a top class rugby union professional and look for many who are listening today.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: They won't know a lot about you, but they're going to know a lot.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: By the end of this story.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Would you like to just give us a bit of an update as to who you are and what you're up to at the moment?
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, of course I'm Simone Raguzzi.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I'm an Italian, I'd say at first, I'm a passionate rugby man and son of a great father and grandfather.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: They're rugby passionate and that's all about me.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Like the start, you know.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: It's very important to say that.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: And then my past.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I have been playing professional for 12 years In Italy, mostly one season in Wales, and I played for many teams, professional teams in Italy, and I spent a few years with Italian representatives.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: I spent a few years with Italian representatives and now I moved to Ireland to start a new journey as a coach with the objective to improve myself 360.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: And that's a quick resume.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah and listen.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that, because it is an exciting journey and I think even your passion and the purpose that finds you in Ireland right now is really interesting.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: You know we were joking about the love of learning languages, and what I understand from you, from our conversations, is this love of learning everything.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Is this love of learning everything learning more about rugby on the field, more about cultures, more as a player, more as a coach?
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: So how are you finding Ireland as a place for you to learn?
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: That's a great question because it is what you're saying At the beginning of the course.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I'm a son of rugby men and I feel as though I'm a a rugby man, not a rugby player or a rugby coach, and I think Ireland at first is a great country.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: So just because it's a great country, it's an opportunity of learning as a human being first, and then it's a great rugby country.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: So you can be a great rugby man after an experience here, and so I'm trying to to get everywhere I can here in the name of learning.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I coach work in Leinster environment, which is a great environment like very, very well recognized around the world, and I coach in schools, rugby schools here in Ireland.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: It's a great path for coaches because the school's cup here is tough.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: It's a tough cup and not a lot of people around the world knows that, but if you don't win you're gone and I coach in the club and different kind of setup like youth women have with the community.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I do a lot of things and that is my keyword like learning, learning, learning.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm here, not not to other purpose yeah, I think that's wonderful because for many people towards the end of their career, they focus on doing stuff and creating things.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: For you, there's been such a wonderful recognition of learning and the fact that you're not yet complete as a person, or indeed as a rugby man.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: So I'd love to know a bit more about well, I suppose your career.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: So you said you're the son of a rugby, you're from a rugby family.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: What was rugby like for you growing up and what was sport like for you growing up in Italy?
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: It was a lot, a lot, because seriously, it comes through the passion.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: That's the important thing, because the passion in my family it's great and I tried to.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Obviously, when I was young, I realized that I was a good player enough to push myself into professional environment and I can turn rugby from a passion to a job, and that's what it became and that's what's still going on and what I think it's very, very make me successful for a certain thing, because I don't really like to talk about successful, because it's different between people and people but for this reason, I consider myself successful.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Even though you go in the top level or not, you do what your life or job.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: You wake up in the morning smiling and at the moment, I prepare a coaching session or talk with some coach or study a game plan or watch a game.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: So for me it's not working.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: For me it's enjoying life.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: No, this is very important and, yes, growing up in Italy, since I was very young, I had this passion.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: And for many listening, we'll recognise Italy as the sixth nation that plays in the Six Nations tournament.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: And so, as I grew up, it was the Five Nations and then it became the Six.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: So for you, you know, when I think of Italy, I think of Italia 90, I think football, and you know that's the main game that happens in Italy.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: So for you, growing up as a rugby boy, how was that?
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: For you, you know this balance between football and rugby and where rugby is, I guess, perceived.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: It was tough, to be honest, and it's still tough.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: When I was younger, I was living in Milan, which is a 2 million people city, and there was only three teams and I was playing under eight.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: I remember sometimes we don't even have the players to compete, so it means that eight eight is 24 players of the same age in a 2 million people city and if you think about it, even though we had that number, we were beating Ireland, france and we got the credit to get into the Six Nations.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Now rugby is definitely improving in Italy.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: It's definitely developing.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: I think we're still a bit far away from our potential and that's why I'm very, very optimistic.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: And that's why I'm very, very optimistic because at the moment we are in our early path.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Think about that in Italy, only 0.5 people athletes sport, people play rugby.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: If you increase that for double, you go to one, you get double players, rugby players.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: For a 60 million country as Italy, it would be an incredible achievement and in the southern part of Italy, from Rome to below, so much doesn't exist.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: And I think the greatest challenge for Italian federation would be bring rugby to the south and get on board all the southern players that now are more focused on football yeah, that's interesting your perspective of growing up in that environment.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: that's interesting your perspective of growing up in that environment.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: That's an amazing challenge for Italy on how do you grow that sport.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's incredible because in Italy we are very, very multidisciplinary.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: We excel in many, many sports, apart from football as well, I can say volleyball, especially the female ball the boys was massive.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: I would say the swimming, water, polo, basketball and all the singular individual disciplines.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: We're very good in shooting and these things like that archers, and so we have a lot of sports.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: What I see here in Ireland Ireland is very good in the sport, is involved, but some sport here almost inexistent.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: It's easier for them to convoy more energy in the sport.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: they're more into it yeah, where they have their success.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Listen, your career as a rugby player is 12 years as a professional rugby player, as you entered into professional rugby.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Well, I hope to achieve as many as possible international appearances and unfortunately I haven't done it.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I've been involved in Six Nations in November test match and the World Cup preseason and November in 2014-15, that period I've been almost every time the escort player like 24th man.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: But after that I've been involved in Sevens.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: I've been involved in Italy A.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: I've been involved with Treviso.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I can say I think I have about 80, 70 international appearances in the rugby fields.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: That's good.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: If you would have done better?
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, of course, 100%.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Are you proud of what you've done?
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, 100%.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: And at a certain point of my journey, when I realized I could have not get back to that environment like international environment when I was 26-27 years old, even though I was feeling probably better than when I was 26, 27 years old, even though I was feeling probably better than when I was in that environment I just realized I have to change something, I have to get into a new thing and the transition has been pretty natural.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: I always keep playing professionally, very focalized, but my focus start shifting from player playing to coaching.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: That's even though sometimes probably my managers they wasn't very happy about that because I was getting paid to play, not to coach.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: But I was the kind of person that and I'm the kind of person that if I go, I really believe in one thing go invest a lot of energy.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: So if you get used to invest yourself as a rugby player 100% of yourself, and then it become 70-30, or 60-40, or 80-20, you can see that 20% of luck as a player.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the challenge.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: But how did you manage that conflict between playing and coaching?
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I'd say, even now, like I'm playing now, I'm still playing.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: There are pros and cons in that, a lot of pros and some cons.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: The pros is that you gain wisdom, experience.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: You become kind of a leader for your player around you, an inspiration for the youngsters and you as well, as a player, experienced player, you know like a coach player, you know what the coaches want.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: So it's easier to train, to communicate, to do a lot of things.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I feel much, much better than what I was when I was only a player.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: The cons is obviously you're getting older, you cannot relay a lot to your body and sometimes you have to pass the ball instead of going around the person in the open field, the ball instead of going around the person in the open field.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: And that sometimes is frustrating because a few years ago I should have beaten the best player and now it's a bit tough.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, for me when I came here in Ireland, even though every time I step on the rugby field, I want to do my best performance I can do and I want to do my best performance I can do and I want to be the best version of me as a player it's more in coaching.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and thank you for that explanation.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I'm curious, then what was the shift that you did?
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: What was the first thing that you changed?
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: When you realized my playing career is not going to be as big as I hoped and you're going to have to start to become a coach, what did you change, or what did you start to do?
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: I think when I was young, when I was very young, I knew that one day I would have at least try to coach not professional or either professional or not.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: I would have tried for young I mean uh, 17, 18 years old I started liking that.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: The only part is I never say that to anybody, I never communicate that, because I was kind of embodied the cool guy and the coaching when you're playing, when you're 21 years old, 22 years old, you know it's kind of a nerd thing.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: And I was trying to not talk to anybody and at a certain point I just turned my mind and said I get involved with that.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I asked my Back in the days I was coaching in.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: I was playing for Petrarca Padova, which is one of the best Italian teams.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: I asked to coach the 18th and the 18 playing for Petrarca Padova, which is one of the best Italian team.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I asked to coach the 18th and the 18th of Petrarca Padova is Italian champions.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: So I've been very straightforward saying give me that team and they gave me and they win the champions, italian champions.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: So it was unbelievable.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: From that year I just realized I got potential, because I see how I empathize with players.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: I was all the feedbacks from the people around me was great, and I started believing in myself and said, oh, maybe this could be a job one day.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: And after that year I kept going, kept going and tried to improve myself, tried to make my own path.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: And so for you as an athlete in Italy, as a rugby player in Italy, was that a full-time job or did you have to balance other ways to make money as well?
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: No, no, it was a full-time job because in Italy there is.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: I played a few years in Treviso, which is the, I'd say, the main Italian rugby team, and I had a salary that I can say was good.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: For Italian standard it was more than good.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: And even though when I got back into the Italian league, which is a league of 10 teams, they're semi-professional but the top 4 or 5 they're professional.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: So I was in the one of the top 4 or 5, so I was earning good money to leave.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: They was giving the house and I could have focused 100% of that.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I tried to study in the university and after one year I dropped because I felt my rugby, I was taking too much focus out of rugby.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: So I said I will study after if I need.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a good advice to the people that maybe listen, but that was my path.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: As I said before, I'm the kind of person that if I really believe in something, go 100, and so when I start studying I start getting a few back injuries because probably I was sit too much into the chair.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I was really like what I was studying.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: But I said I'm 25 years old, 24 and I'm in prime on rugby, just enjoy.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Enjoy this because you also like in a position that a lot of Italian players wish they can be.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: So and what you know what like.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Now I'm 30, 31 and I'm enrolling for a master, master degree in Edinburgh for performance coaching and development.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Let's see how it goes, because there are not many seats open, but I'm optimistic.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: That's wonderful.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I love the fact that you actually, you know, enrolled in a subject that you liked originally.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: You made a decision to prioritize your rugby at that time because you thought it was the right thing to do, and now you're re-approaching that education, and we'll come on to how you've got the balance in your life.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: So I think it's a good story on making sure you've got the mental and physical space you know to really focus on what's important.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: And so for you, today you find yourself in Ireland.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: I'm curious, though how did this move come about?
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: You said you spent a year in Wales.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: What inspired you to leave Italy?
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Well, it's very connected with the question that you made at the beginning.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I always live in rugby in Italy as an Italian, and I really felt that if I wanted to become the best version of me as a rugby coach, I should have spent a few years experience abroad in great rugby countries Whether or not the Six Nations.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: We did pretty well, but Italy is not a great rugby country in terms of game culture and become a better coach here.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Ireland, it's insane, insane, insane.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: I love how they live rugby, how they live the club, how they live Leinster, how they live Ireland.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: It's incredible.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: It's incredible In all the shades.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I'd say it's probably the best thing I could have done, and I was looking for new zealand or ireland because I think those two are the rugby country for the two hemispheres.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: No, I think, and yes, like as an english man, I do have to interject here and say well, come on, surely England was on your list.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think so, Because England is prime in so many sports.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: If you get me, England is just too good in too many sports and Ireland has only rugby.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: If you go in Dublin, Irish, don't take me wrong, but I'd say primes in the world, only in rugby.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Like, Ireland has plenty of sports but they're first in the class in a few.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: One of them is rugby.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: They have Gaelic games but the Gaelic game is not international.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: You know they're only in Ireland, Gaelic games, but the Gaelic games are not international, they're only in Ireland and England, for example, they compete for the world champion in many, many sports.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: So it turns like a multi-sport country and I think, as New Zealand is, Ireland is a rugby country and I witnessed that during this Six Nations.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Like for two months, Dublin is turned a rugby city and for me it was unbelievable because I come from Milan.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Like a very nice city full of art, full of fashion, but when there is a Six Nations game and you talk with the people, the people doesn't even know what six nation is.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: So I enjoy, I love that and that's for me as a rugby passionate.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: At first it was unbelievable and so that inspiration for you to find yourself in Ireland.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: You said that's because if you want to become a top rugby coach, that's where you would have to be.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Really, now that you're in Ireland and you made this decision to move overseas, what is it that you hope to achieve?
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: What I hope to achieve is, as I said, to become a great rugby coach, and living here in Ireland makes me feel that, because every corner you go, every pub you go, every club you go and every rugby field you go, you can have a very thorough rugby talk with a very not every time, but most of the time with a very good coach or technical person, no, or a person maybe there is not a great coach who is full of wisdom, and that's something that I think in Ireland, because it's a great rugby country, you can afford to.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: And then after that, to be very, very specific, I'm here also one of the best in coaching and in make rugby.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: So I'm learning how to create as a coach.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I'm learning the Irish style, which now is based on keep the possession, keep the ball, make phases, phases, be very, very consistent in the structures, set a good game plan, educate the players to behave really, really well with the players around them, not as individual, which tunes a little bit my mindset, because at the beginning, as a player as well, I was the kind of player that was more instinctive instinctive play what in front of you every time, but more Kiwi style I said more or black style.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: So that's a very good part for me, because I'm learning and I'm getting very, very inspired, to be honest, from something that is completely different than what I was expecting to be as a coach.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: So much because it completed me, because I can have some of my natural ability as an instinctive and play the game, play what's in front of you, and then now I'm putting all the things that is not natural for me, like playing the structure, play and create, building an organization, very, very well performing and you can say whatever you want to say.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: But now the Irish are the best in the world by far in that Because South African, they can be physical English, they can be the master of the skies, because a lot of highballs and they were doing very, very well.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: New Zealand.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: They're very good in instinctive plays and play, recognize, identify spaces.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Irish are so good in making structures into an organization.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: So I love that.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: And what about that was more technical?
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: As a human being coach, I'm learning how to deal with players, different culture and from mentors and bosses.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: My bosses are from different cultures, so I have a part of my job here is also develop players.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: So you can actually change people's lives if you inspire them, if you give them good feedback if you're very loyal to them, if you're very respectful, if you get good insight to play rugby, and so I'm learning also how to treat players, and that's very important.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: In Italy I felt for I hope now it's changing but there were a lot of people, a lot of coaches that were still around about 50s.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: They were treating players like sheep, like cows, and that's something that I always ate about these coaches and these coaches' generation, about these coaches and this coach's generation.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: And here in Ireland I never felt or saw something like that the human being first and then the player.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: So you cannot treat someone not good just because it doesn't pass the ball as you want or doesn't take the decision to make that you want, or just because it's not good enough.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: In my opinion, just because of this, this reason, you have to treat it better.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Better, don't be frustrated with him, otherwise that frustration it turns to you.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: You know you spoke there about the two elements for you to learn by moving overseas and becoming a coach, as you are, whilst playing semi-professionally.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: You know, when we spoke earlier you, you know, in our previous conversation, you were talking a lot about learning best in a high performance environment and that's what moved you to Ireland.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: So when you're here now, in this high performance environment, what is the hardest thing that you are having to face?
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: being involved in the highest performance environment.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: The other thing is that there is a lot, of, a lot of quality.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: A lot of people is in front of you.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: So, probably, building a career, it's gonna take longer than any other environment, especially if I would have been like a superstar, it would have been easier.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: You get me so, like Sergio Parisa is a superstar for Italian rugby as soon as he stopped playing.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: He's a Lionel's coach for too long and fair play, how you can come play with him is incredible.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: It's a kind of experience that I'm not like that.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: So I have to create my path and, yeah, it takes longer, I think, because it has to be made on experience, experience, experience, experience so fucked and be around, being around and you know what like.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: For me it's good because it's a learning, it's a learning process.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: For me is great.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: And get connected to what you said before.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know how long I'm going to stay here in Ireland, or I don't even know if, after Ireland, I will go to Italy or I will go in another country.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: All I know is when I go back to Italy, I'll be sure I will bring something that is unique and I can develop my country, and that's one of my aims, that's one of my aim.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: That is so good, so good to hear because, whilst you have moved overseas to learn and to develop yourself, I love how you want to take that back to your country, to take it back to Italy to further the game.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: To what extent or how are you connected with Italian rugby today?
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: I am connected.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: I am connected and that makes me so proud.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: I constantly talk with Italian managers and coaches.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: I'm very, very well connected.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: In January, I've been with Italy under 24 year representation that came here in Ireland facing against academies and that made me so proud being involved with them.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Because you know, like you live in another country, like there is a camp facing against the academies and that made me so proud to be involved with them.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Because you know, like you live in another country, like there is a representative from your country here In your country you're living and you're getting involved with them.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: You win the game as well against Ireland.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: For me it was unbelievable.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: I was assistant of the assistant of the assistant of the coaches, but you know what, like I had my part and I enjoyed that.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: And yeah.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: So so it's good, then, that you have your eye on what is next or how are you getting involved in the Italian structure and you know, like you say, being the assistant of the assistant, of the assistant, what is great is that you are putting that investment in yourself to rise to the top and by making that sacrifice or in fact, I think you said before that for many people they sort of float after you know their career finishes whilst they're trying to figure out what's next.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: And you know for you, you've sort of come out and said really clearly that you want to be a coach.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Perhaps the first time you've said something like that out loud.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I mean now, with this purpose, you know what's next for you as a coach.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Where do you think you want to go?
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: You know what's next for you as a coach.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Where do you think you want to go?
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: I have my thoughts and I don't know if I really want to share it, but although, because they don't depend on me.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Why would you not want to share?
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: it Because they're very ambitious.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: They're very ambitious and you know I don't want to show my strategies to everybody, I just say they're very ambitious.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: They're very ambitious things and that's what I aim to.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Probably not in the very, very recent future.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: I expect another few years of pure learning and then, yeah, getting in that.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: But the thing, the problem is which is not a problem Sometimes it's a good thing that things doesn't go as you want and maybe you have to adapt and go in another country or doing another job.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: You know, I look forward to playing this in 20 years time when you are the first Italianian coach of the irish national rugby team or something along those lines.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I, I don't know, but we'll, we'll go there uh let's, let's say, let's say the english.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: So there we go.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: After you've won the world, italy, Italy.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Then you'll go to Ireland or maybe England.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Afterwards We'll, we'll become so exactly exactly.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Well, well, like, uh, yeah, let's keep the mouth closed with these and and work hard, work hard, work hard.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: All I can think about is is the recent future and the present, and all I'm trying to do is and all I'm trying to do is studying, studying, studying.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: As I said before, abusing of watching rugby live or television.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: I use a lot of Twitter to watch and get inspired from other coaches, pundits, listen to podcasts and trying to be around.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Trying to be around, get a lot of new connections that can inspire me.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Keep good mentors around me.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: That's very, very, very, very good, a lot of good mentors.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: I think they literally turn my life, even though I don't think the mentor has to be someone really close to you.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: The mentor has to be someone that you identify as, a person that can give you a very, very objective feedback based on his experience, because he see, he understand you.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: And so my mentors they're not my friends, they're.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: I just ask can we have a coffee?
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: And they gave me incredible advice.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: So if I would have like a listen, personalities around me in terms of family and friendships, I would have taken very, very different decision and um, so that's, that's what I feel well, there you're demonstrating the importance of having mentors not just one, but having many mentors who are there to support you and give you advice.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: And you know, I'm curious.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: You said you know there you would just ask them to go for a coffee and pick their brain.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Do you follow any more formal structures to identify and engage with mentors?
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: I've never had problems with socialization, so I'm a social person, so for me it's easy to identify a person, as I said before, that is really full of wisdom.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Before that it's really full of wisdom, really full of experience with the good path that can understand my situation.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Once I understand this is a kind of figure, I easily say hey, let's go for a coffee, we sit down, talk and we have a walk.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Last time I've been out with Joey Carberry, which is incredible, incredible coach here in Leinster.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: He's the father of Joey Carberry fly, half of Leinster actually, and he's Kiwi.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: So he has a different point of view than anybody else here in Ireland and he's similar to me in a few things and he has a point of view that was completely different of all the others.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: And I identified him as a mentor and I said, why not, let's go for a coffee, let's go for a tea coffee?
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: And he gave me a very good advice that I kept and put in practice.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: And he gave me a very good advice that I kept and put in practice and I just saw after kind of a couple of weeks it was very, very useful the advice.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: So it's very, very important to at first have mentors.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: But identify is not easy, I think.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, Simone, I guess this you know.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Coming towards the end of our conversation, that's something I'd love to learn, because people will be listening to this conversation and they will think how do I identify and approach a mentor?
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: So if you were to give advice to athletes who are transitioning and wanting to find mentors, how would you describe to them what you think they should do?
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: At first.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: I think they should identify if this person that they're giving feedback to them, their feedback is very pure and genuine.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: If they are like that, it means that even though you're doing something wrong, they will probably tell you.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: They will change your opinion if they're very genuine.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: So that's a very, very top way to identify, I think, a mentor.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: And another thing obviously they have to be connected to what you want to go and where you want to go, what you want to do and where you want to go.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: They have to be a kind of a similar working experience than yours or a kind of knowledge that inspires you.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: So that's the thing, the two biggest point that I would say.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Another mentorship is a thing is reading, reading and listening podcast.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: That could be good.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Why not?
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Now we're in the podcast, so if I get, if I can inspire one person, I inspire one person, I inspire one person.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: It's fine.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: I did kind of mentorship, but reading, I think, is a very powerful tool, incredible.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: If you read constantly, 30 minutes a day, you get really, really, really inspired.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: And that's not mentorship, because it doesn't come from a person or a mentor, but you can definitely be inspired and you know it's all about that Getting inspired.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Even though you have a good job, you still have to be inspired and change your mind, build a new pattern and create new things.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Unlock your creativity.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: That's something that I always say to my players.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Unlock your creativity Because even here in Ireland Ireland they play very structured, very bang bang into an organization.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you can find a little bit too much and they say unlock your creativity, get freed, take the ball, run.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: You have a paint, write it, paint it.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: That's the thing is a incredibly useful for going ahead.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: No yeah, I think you're right, simone, and that that I find, you know, really interesting or fascinating.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing, you know, the mentorship, the.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: I just find it really fascinating, finding that, that mentorship, and wanting to continue to learn through reading and actually through watching or listening of podcasts as well.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: I think that is super sound advice and very simple to break down.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Listen, I want to thank you for your time today to you know, to really share your story.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Someone's going to be listening to this, that one person who might want to reach out.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: What's the best way to find you on socials?
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Well, if it's that one person, I will take a beer as well.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: The pub I use social social with different purpose.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: I use the Instagram more for friendships and sharing things as a friend.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Facebook, same, but mostly Italian, with really older, older, older age people.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: And then your mother, exactly, exactly the friends of my father's and father, my mother, parents, blah blah.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: But yeah, facebook has also used it as my my life building, not because I started posting when I was 15 years old and it's so good, I think, to see things that you've done back in the days and sometimes you can come across again.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: I like that, in fairness.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: And then I use more Twitter and LinkedIn for professional things.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: So if they like me as a professional, as a coach, they just can reach me out there.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Or if you want me as a friend, as a coach, they just can reach me out there.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Or if you want me as a friend.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Instagram or Facebook, Simone, perhaps to share.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: If people want to get in contact with you on Twitter or LinkedIn, what's your address?
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: How would they find you?
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Just write, Simone Raguzzi.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Simone, listen.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Thanks again for taking the time to share your story today.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Really appreciated the lesson, especially that focus on identifying and finding mentors to help move you forward in high performance environments.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Thanks very much for joining me today.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Ryan.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: It's been a pleasure Actually, first time for me in English and I will close my conversation with an Italian word arrivederci thank you for listening to the second win podcast.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwinio for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Book Design, nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: That's all from me.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Take it easy Until next time.