Latest / The Doodle Pro®: Positive Dog Training for Calm Doodles / Did You Miss the Puppy Socialization Window? Puppy Brain Book Club, Part 2 with Kerry Nichols

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Did You Miss the Puppy Socialization Window? Puppy Brain Book Club, Part 2 with Kerry Nichols · The Doodle Pro®: Positive Dog Training for Calm Doodles

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to dive in and talk about this phenomenal book today.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I am thrilled to introduce Carrie Nichols from The Puppy Brain.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you might have followed her on Instagram.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to see the cutest goldens in casserole dishes, this is the place to do it.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is such a delight watching each step of your work.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's just delicious little family members for all of these families.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being here, Carrie.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited about this book club.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we have members of our membership, the Doodle Pro Honor Society in here today, and our current students in Zoomy Suzen.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone, I have to tell you, Carrie, I could see we've got 21 students here.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: This has been a hit.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: We had some readers in the Doodle Pro Academy that were reading your book and saying, Man, I wish I read this before I picked where my puppy was from.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know to look for these things or that breeders like this existed.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have a family listening, do any of this, did I miss the window on my puppy building resiliency?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know, they're mammals, we're mammals.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like we have supple brains.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: And like the question is, how much can one dog what can one dog do?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's so individual.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I just tell people, try, try, pretend this is a puppy.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Pick up puppy brain and do all of those things with your adult dog, just as if they're a puppy.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Give them more time, give them more space.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: They may take, you know, because those neural pathways are getting established so fast at eight weeks of age and they can learn something one time.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: It may take 10, 15, 20, 50, 100, whatever, whatever it takes.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Just keep doing it and see what your dog is capable of.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: They're remarkable, they are remarkable creatures.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: It is incredible how much they can grow even when they're full grown adults.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm like I said, I'm here with my parents, and their dog does not come when we are outside.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, how do you live with this?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: And there is no like there is nothing, there is no treat.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: There is nothing.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm like, I've been the smells out there are so oh the smells because it's that's what it is.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I've been like thinking, what can I do?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: What can I do?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: So what I've started to do is I've been playing hide and seek inside the house with her where there's no distractions.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: And she loves to hunt me down.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'll hide behind the couch and I do this whistle, right?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: And the whistle is really distinct.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: And at first she was like, What well now, what's happening?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's an interesting thing that she's doing.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like she wasn't sure.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then she caught it on.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like she caught on.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, oh, we're playing a game.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I I kind of like this game.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so so then now we've been playing hide and seek.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: We played hide and seek for three days in the house, and she will run all over the house to find me.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like she's become a beast.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: So yesterday I was like, No, there you are over your little dirt patch that must be like you know, the manna from God over there because she will not leave it.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I went and I hid very obvious.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: I want her to be able to see me when she looked up.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Gave her a win if she wanted to.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, we reward the slightest try, right?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so I whistled and she was like, Are we playing the game outside?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: And oh my gosh, she came to me.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Dirty, away from that dumb dirt patch that I have not been able to get her away from.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, she's seven.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, she's seven years old, and it's taken five days of playing this game.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, like any dog, you just try and see, you know, I knew that scent was a big deal for her and that she would want to sniff me out.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, think about what makes your dog tick.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: What do they love?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then incorporate that into helping them develop confidence and resilience because it's your friend, whatever the thing is that they love.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure your parents have tried like calling her name or saying cum or whatever before, and all that's poisoned now.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, that meant she had to go in the crate or the sniffing time was done or whatever.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you by just trying a different way with that novel whistle, it's not poisoned.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, and oh, well, cum was a kind of fun game.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you probably let her go back out and sniff so game time wasn't over.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's so important.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's exactly right.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we played a couple rounds, and then I was like, now I'll just sit out here and let you do your thing.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because I wanted her to know that it meant you get to keep doing what you want to do, which is key.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, we're gonna get that embedded in there, you little Pavlovian creature.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, I'm gonna crack this case before I go back home.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because my dogs, when I whistle at home, oh my gosh, I have to hide behind something so they don't run me over, you know.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they just the barreling at me because it's so locked in.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's my goal.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're setting me up with all these transitions, I must say, Carrie, because we're talking about what's being you're kind of ingraining from day one.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And in your book, you talk about like kind of a default sit in puppy culture.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: They call it manding.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love teaching that as well.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: I really enjoy that, just kind of capturing when you have that sit and it unlocks attention and food and all these wonderful things.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: We have a question from one of my gold standard circle breeders, Carolyn DeBar.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: She breeds Australian labradoodles with her programs called Doodle Around, and she's a Walla board member.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: She wanted to ask you puppy culture builds the default sit, like we're talking about.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And another program with puppy rearing avid dog builds four paws on the floor.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sit can become a habit that some dogs need to unlearn, like when a show dog needs to be stacked or a doodle standing on the grooming table.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: So both camps, though, are agreeing on this bigger idea that we're rewarding calm choices so we never have to like punish jumping.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: From your seat in the whelping box, which default do you build?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And what do you like a lot of your families to continue at home?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, I think you know, the focus of my breeding program is therapy dogs.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I hope that I get to the point where almost every puppy I raise becomes a therapy dog.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: And well, let me rephrase that.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's a candidate.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there is, yeah, you know, they they they fill a therapy role as a family member.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: There's no question, you know, that that's what they do.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm really embedding all of the things that make for a great therapy dog, regardless of what they end up doing.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: But it is, you know, it is forefront of mind for me.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then a lot of a lot of families with kids.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would say for the puppies I'm raising, the default sit is it is the right fit for them.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like if I had someone who wanted to do heavy showing, they wanted to do rally or something, then I would probably I would change what I'm doing with that puppy because all of my work is one-on-one, not all, but most of the work on a daily basis when I do find it is when I do my heaviest reinforcement for default sitting.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, that's hard to catch on a camera because you never know where they're going to stop and where you're reinforcing and everything.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: But I would probably just incorporate something different for that puppy.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that you know, dogs are amazing at learning alternate behaviors.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like you could teach a dog or you could embed a default sit, but then also have them stand on a grooming table, right?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: They would they would know the difference.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly it.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I think like, you know, it depends on probably the breeding program and what their what their focus is in terms of what's going to work best for their people who are taking home their puppies.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: But for us, I would say even like I I for whatever reason, a lot of our puppies go to New York.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, and it's a really densely populated area.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's very helpful to have that tight next to you.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then if they stop moving, sit, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's really a helpful thing to have in a very dense city.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I would just say overall, even like family members with kids, having the puppy sit and make eye contact is really helpful for kids.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like it gives them a good start in being able to have a calm, sane relationship with their puppy.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I I still tip in that direction.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's just a choice I made for our breeding program.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's thank you for walking it through with me.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's my preference as well.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I teach my kids that it's our dog's way of saying please.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: When they sit, because it's what I teach my kids to do in manners in my house.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And when their little bottom goes on the ground and they're making eye contact, yeah, it's a lot easier for me to catch, too, that they're asking politely for something than a stand.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So then I'm more likely to reinforce it, and then the game goes from there.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was gonna say too, is it's such a communication, you know.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they they oh, it's so incredible to watch those little seven-week-old minds thinking, thinking, thinking, Oh, what can I offer?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: What am I gonna do?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: What if I and then they what if I, yes, you know, and you catch it like in that moment, yeah.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: You can see them thinking, what if I, and that little bottom just kind of begins to drop and you can catch it.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so then they learn, oh, well, then that was an effective communication.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Let me try that again.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just really a great communication tool for them.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I I really like it.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And when people are frustrated, oh my dog, you know, demand barks or is always nosing or pawing me.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're trying, dogs do what works, and and it worked once.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: So they're gonna keep trying that thing.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we can find other things that we find more pleasant to work instead.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if you could shape it from these little furry nuggets early and it's in front of that key.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's a gift.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it is.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: I just I can hardly wait.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: I hope Isla's pregnant.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: I can't wait to be working with those little brains and just seeing them.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: You can see it's remarkable what happens on from a day-to-day basis, right?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like one day they're not getting it, not getting it, and the next day it's just locked in.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I mean, yeah, it's it feels like when reading your book, it feels like you're on the journey with.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it could inspire a lot of people, the breeder, and at the same time being like, Oh, I don't know if I could do this.
• 11:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: When you're talking about the 12th hour and the well pig box.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my agent given all the intention.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: My agent took out some things because she was like, I don't think people really need to know that, you know, because it can get gnarly.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I have no perspective anymore.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, this is just my life.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what is appropriate or not.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 11:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: When we're talking about these developing brains, a lot of um pet families will be like, My dog got it.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, my puppy, we did this, they got it, they know it, they understand.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then we hit adolescence and we've got these teenage pups.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk a little bit what's going on in the adolescent brain when a great puppy suddenly seems to forget everything?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: I really think we have to remember what our kids, well, and maybe people haven't.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: I loved the teenage stage.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I hated it.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I loved it with my humans.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in it right now.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I got 14 and 17.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh, yeah, you're in it.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: You're in it.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: There is a the brain is completely, it's a shuffle, you know, it's a 52-card pickup, is what's happening, right?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: And all that stuff that was in there, it's still in there, but it's getting reorganized.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's a little chaotic for a season.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, Fritz is two, and he is still.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, bro, your teenage brain.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: When are we gonna kind of get a little evolution past that?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, there's the oh, whatever.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: He's he's such a teenager still.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you're just watching that calendar, yeah.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's so different for everybody.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like Rufus, Rufus came to us as a one-year-old, and he was an old man.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh he was just like, I don't do anything wrong.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm a perfect doc.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like he just and that happens with our kids too.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes one is testing every limit, and one is hitting the book.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yes.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And Harper's the sneaky, you know, subtle.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: She was like, Oh, well, I appear to be really grown up and mature, but I could do some things.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I might sneak out at night, but you know, that kind of stuff.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I, you know, it's just we have to be so patient.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like a really good thing to remember trust people when they say the teenage stage is coming and don't prematurely remove the consistent protocols that you're doing with the puppy.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Keep doing those things, let those take you all the way through the teenage phase.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Keep that crate, keep them comfortable with the barriers, keep them comfortable with having to be alone, keep all of this going.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people think, okay, well, they're socialized.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: They're not being in the house now.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm not being take away all the barriers, yeah, leave the socks out, uncover trash can.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: They never did it because before they never did it before.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, hello, they didn't have this brain.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: This brain says, you know, that sock smells really good.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, just keep it all the same.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think just why if it if it's not broke, don't fix it.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Just keep it going all the way through until you are on the other side of adolescence, and then you can begin to slowly remove these things, slowly give opportunities.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: This is all slow as fast, slow as fast.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: But crate isn't pretty.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, nobody enjoys having like a metal crate in their house.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I agree.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if it's working and you've done and they're comfortable there, hold on until we've gone through all of our testing and and and then slowly see yeah, for being the fastest to put that away or to have the uncovered trash can or laundry.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and then I would say, even then, don't be surprised by it.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're not bad.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: They they are dogs, they are dogs, and they are going to do things that are very doggy.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um Harper, you know, we have at our house that the area where I show a lot on Instagram is where the puppies are raised, right in our living room.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's a detached building that has where I go work out.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so, I mean, of course, it's like 10 feet away.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: I just I close all the doors and I leave them out.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I, this is before we had Fritz.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: I had I had left Rufus and Harper in there and went to work out.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: I came back and I'm like, I oh, oh my gosh.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like she had taken this Monstera plant.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: It was massive.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: This it was beautiful.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'd grown it for like two and a half years, and I mean she pulled the whole thing out of the pot.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, just you could tell that she had just had the best time.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, You're like nine years old, eight years old, whatever she was.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: What happened in your brain?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: But they they're dogs, they are, and they're dogs, and they're gonna do doggy things, and we should never expect them to not be dogs.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: One of our students, um, Casey, her doodle Keely turned two in May, and she sent in a question for you that Keely outside tries to eat everything grass, rocks, mulch sticks, and Casey's thinking maybe some snifflocks might help kind like calm her.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is do you think this is something Keely's gonna grow out of?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And what could help in the meantime?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, my disclaimer is my wheelhouse is babies.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is my wheelhouse.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: I name is puppy brain.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: So now that we're into you know that kind of behavior, like I would, you know, I like if someone emails me and asks me that, I'm always like, it is time for a virtual consult with, you know, a certified professional dog trainer who can help you come up with a strategy.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I do think this is super normal.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I do think that they do, it's not that they grow out of it, it's that you implement different strategies that are effective.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: So working on leave it at home in a low distraction environment is essential.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: I have seen a lot of trainers use a lot of tools in the toolbox on how to handle different dogs, which is why I'm like not saying do this or do that, because some dogs can handle a muzzle, uh, you know, a humane muzzle.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Some dogs would freak out.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to do consent training before you can use a muzzle, all that stuff, right?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't want to say too much detail there, but I would say you can do a one-hour consult, virtual consultation.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Could I should I say this name of the trainer?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like JW Dog Training.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: She's a Karen Pryor faculty, they do virtual trainings, and they could in one hour say, okay, here's the game plan.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then they would have everything like all lined out for you.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I wouldn't advise a breeder on what to do in the well thing box with an umbilical cord or placenta.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like we stay in Erlane.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: We stay in Erlen.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: You do, and but this does overlap nicely your advice here with hugging and fear.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: In the book, you shared that even unwanted cuddling can make a puppy fearful.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people see a doodle puppy as the most like huggable teddy bear.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And kids do often want to hug them like a teddy bear.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: How do you talk to families about being able to tell if their puppy wants a hug and what they can offer instead?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think this is such a hard thing.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: I and I mean, and if I had a doodle puppy, I would be like, oh, stop.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, just I can't even imagine.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think they are the cutest ever.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like I've had kids that are eight or nine who, when they come do a puppy visit, um, I'll talk with them about this and say, you know, like kind of think of it like this.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: When if you were, when you're with people, if someone comes up and hugs you and you don't really want to be hugged, it makes you feel a little bit uncomfortable, right?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like it might be like a family member you're not really familiar or close with, or like even like you know, it could be a teacher or something.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: And and puppies feel like that.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: They it needs to be, they they need to give permission.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so the best way to give permission, I like to have kids sit on their knees.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: If a puppy is in a really quiet mood, or if they're not a particularly bitey puppy, they can sit, you know, crisscross applesauce, right?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I when we do our visits, I always give kids big beach towels to put over their laps so that the claws and because kids are so tactile and responsive, you know, to all the things that the you don't want like a little shriek or yeah, exactly.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I just say let them approach you.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: You can do a little, they're very responsive when and when they're quiet.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want to amp them up.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want to go, you puppy.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like and then we get mouthy little puppy.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: We want to keep it all very quiet so we can go just a quiet little clap, and they usually will come to that, and then they might come in your lap.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, hack that we do with kids visiting is really I'll buy I buy from Amazon the packs of long sweatshirt strings.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh that are that are allowed to be chewed on.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: And the puppy will lay in their lap and kind of just lay there and gnaw on the sweatshirt string.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's this purpose.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're always pulling those back and their shoe strings and all the things.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a it's a permissive chewing that we allow.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure that those sweatshirt strings smell like a million puppies.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, and then I say, but if they want to go off of your lap, let them.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, let them.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it's all they decide.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's all up to the puppy.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do that when they're little, guess what?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna be more and more in your lap, more and more in your lap.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna choose to be in your lap more.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: You are a safe place that's so much fun and so cozy.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: And this puppy phase is gonna pass, and then you're gonna get to the point where you have this dog that just wants to lay on you and that you can hug, but you're gonna build that trust, and and they're not ready for that as a puppy.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: They when they feel restrained, it makes them feel afraid.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I kind of just talked it through with kids like that, and they're amazingly receptive, they get it.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even just how you and if you're listening on audio, Carrie just had her wrists together and it was just a and that kind of kept it a soft clap.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's a golf clap.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's perfect.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's perfect.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love that example.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, in your book, it's so I mean, there's so much great science in it in such a digestible way and approachable way.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you also talk about how.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Science changes, and that we need to stay abreast of it.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned spay and neuter, that that was like a very fixed six-month, like that there is a plan for every size, every breed, like this is when spay and neuter needed to happen.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that that is a hot topic in our community.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Do you mind sharing how do you help guide your own puppy families with Spay and Neuter now?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I would say that this is why.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: And if anybody hasn't seen it on my Substack, I have a podcast tab.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: And Dr.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Christensen, he's a board certified, you know, I like the board certified.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: They have done the work to be trustworthy.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: He's a board-certified therogenologist.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he was on faculty at UC Davis.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so he's very trustworthy.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: I had him on my my pod, my podcast.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: My podcast is not nearly as professional as yours, but I had him on to talk about spaying needer in depth.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about females, just we talked about large breed, small breed, females, males in general.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Then we talked about golden retrievers in particular, and and it is it is a an area that is uh it's evolving.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's a hot it is evolving.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: I am lucky that as a golden breeder, I think there are two breeds that for the most part, it is recommended that female Goldens get an ovary sparing spay.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so that makes it very easy because and and there are no causal, as far as I'm aware.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I am way outside my wheelhouse when I talk about this.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I am yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: But there are the thinking is that when a and for whatever reason, golden retrievers are predisposed to certain cancers, hemangiosarcoma, lymphoma, right?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Osteosarcoma, hemangiosarcoma, especially.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: But um, there is something in them that's predisposed.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know what that thing is, but there seems to be an association with depriving them of their repro, particularly females, of their reproductive hormones, that they then don't have the protective benefits against these certain kinds of cancers.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: And there's an increased incidence of these particular cancers in females.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: In males, they're not it doesn't extend through their lifetime.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: So at the last conversation I had with Dr.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Christensen, what he said is that males, well I I feel comfortable repeating it because it's on it's on my YouTube and on my substack.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: He said, first off, uh the question he asks with males is why neuter first.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Why neuter?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um which was not a question for so long.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was not a question for so long.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: He walks through that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: And with females, unless there's a compelling reason, and that is to be discussed with the vet, because there could very well be a compelling reason that females would get an ovary-sparing space.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: And just in case people aren't familiar, what that means is the old way was they took the uterus and the ovaries.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: A newer way is they will do a laparoscopic, which means it's a smaller incision, and they will take just the ovaries because that causes the uterus to shrink.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: But an ovary-sparing spay is exactly what it sounds like.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: It spares the ovaries.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it takes the uterus and leaves the ovaries, which is where all those reproductive hormones come from.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then the dog still has the benefit of the reproductive hormones without the risk of this horrible thing called pyometra.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: So you can't just not spay a female.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: You're at risk for pyometra.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: But if you leave those ovaries in and remove the uterus, she's not at risk for pyometra and she has the benefit of her ovaries.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that's golden.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think that this is you another person that does virtual consults.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: People can call Dr.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Christensen and do a consult on the phone with him if they have questions about whether they should stay or neuter their particular dog.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I just loved how you raised it and that the science is evolving and so much of what you recommend is research-based, and that's what how we work here too.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I love it.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: If a doodle parent remembers one thing from Puppy Brain this week, what do you think it should be?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my, that's a big question.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: I know this, I mean, I would say the size of the book.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: I I really think at the end of the day, that if we honor our dogs by reading their body language and providing them a truckload of agency in their life, meaning they're in control of outcomes.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: They have a lot of choices that we will have a really satisfying relationship with them, and that they will be a really happy dog in a really human world.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Where can everyone find you and this great book?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, thank you.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so Instagram, obviously, it's Nickelberry Goldens.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: And the same with I I'm not great on TikTok.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm on there, but I'm not great with it.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: I love Substack.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: I really enjoy Substack.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: I really enjoyed yours, yeah.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I like engaging with people on there.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: I like Instagram and Substack are my favorites.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one thing I want to say in case anybody missed it, at the back of the book, it references carry nichols.com.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that website has all the research from the book because it was a good yeah, it was a 33-page document.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: We couldn't fit it in the book, and then it also has links to videos that illustrate some of the concepts.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a people have missed that as a as a resource.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: I missed that too.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's wonderful.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Back of the book, perfect.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll have links to Carrie's substance so that you guys can find it in just a click.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I must say the chat during our conversation here has been flying.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um Wendy shared Bravo.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: This was awesome.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Casey said beautiful.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Carolyn, the breeder I mentioned, she did share a note that the ALD for Australian labradoodles, they're also listed on OFA's website.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um so people can find those standards as well.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And she agreed with you that every puppy you bring into the world is your responsibility and should be taken back at any time for any reason.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I will share as well.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: A parent of Keely said, I wish I had read this instead of puppies for dummies, and I'm going to be reminded recommending this book going forward.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank Easy asked, Do you mind sharing again that trainer that you recommended for that virtual consult?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: So JW Dog Training and Juliana is the founder, but she has great trainers that work with her.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, like, you know, Karen Pryor Academy, if you wanted to do it in person, yeah, you can go on their website and you can search for a certified trainer near you and you'll get a you'll get a good trainer.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I really I love them.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Academy for Dog Trainers from Jean Donaldson is my go to as well.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love both of their programs.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Marianne Sherid, this was fantastic.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Love Puppy Brain, so illuminating.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for coming on with us.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't say it better.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Carrie, this has been a delight.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Really fun.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you're a great interviewer.